Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game

[DrewVa]

Why would a scum self hammer to prevent his partner from hammering. That makes no sense

If Toogeloo’s role is fake. Normally, you’d be absolutely right about that. But don’t you think there’s some weird associatives with Clem’s self-hammering - to according to him, prevent Toogeloo from hammering and Chick’s Toogeloo defense? Either one alone, wouldn’t have made me think that. Do you think Clem just wanted to die anyway and tried to shade Toogeloo? I suppose that is also possible.

[DrewVa]

The thing that bugs me about toogeloo is it wasn’t until 401 they said oh look actor is a real role


Potentially this could be scummy but I’m still kinda thinking this through -


I asked A50 what it meant by scum has a fake claim and he told me it was the extra character
He DID NOT tell me they also got the extra potential roles to claim as per that PM flip

So is it possible toogeloo faked his claim ASAP ?

Probably not - you’d surely research your gambit before committing to it in your first post

Idk - if my role PM said something weird the first thing I’d do is go to the wiki to know what I can do but it took 400 posts

Admittedly I tend not to check things other people say to let themselves dig holes but just seems weird to me

Yeah true, that was definitely weird but it probably isn’t a fake role but maybe the flavour is fake? Is there any Stallone film involving actors as actual roles in it?

Clemency was ...

Spoiler:

You are "Angelo 'Snaps' Provolone" (from: Oscar

1991

). You promised your dying father that you would give up your life of crime and "go straight". Oh, well.. promises are promises, right?

You still are a member of a group of kids forming a street gang, but are generally considered to be the Underdogs of this crime-infested "warzone" town. You do everything together, which should make things easier but at the same time you have to face some serious new problems going against major crime forces, professional killers, and law enforcement officers alike.

Your personal abilities are limited. You are a

Goon

of your gang. However, team play, skill and some luck are all you need to overcome the odds that appear to be very much against you.

"It's like disarming Germany."
"Of course I knew. I just had no idea!"

You win when you've eliminated all competition and subdued the Town.

Now how about you PM me back with your role so I know you understand it and are up for the task.

P.S. Just in case you need a fake claim at any point; you may claim "Gabe Walker" (from: Cliffhanger

1993

). You may claim your role to be a

Vanilla Townie

OR

a

Motion Detector

(depending on whether you're claiming early, so you won't corner yourself into having to provide results, or have been linked to a NK victim and want to justify your visit to them on the night they died.)

"Remember, shithead! Keep your arms and legs in the vehicle at all times!"

It's now Night 1. Deadline (expired on 2018-12-03 22:30:00)

A50 clearly gave a fake flavour and a choice of possible fake role options, to choose between. For some reason, I thought both claims would come from the same film, so we now know that isn’t the case.

[DrewVa]

Why would a scum self hammer to prevent his partner from hammering. That makes no sense

If Toogeloo’s role is fake. Normally, you’d be absolutely right about that. But don’t you think there’s some weird associatives with Clem’s self-hammering - to according to him, prevent Toogeloo from hammering and Chick’s Toogeloo defense? Either one alone, wouldn’t have made me think that. Do you think Clem just wanted to die anyway and tried to shade Toogeloo? I suppose that is also possible.

If his claim was fake, letting him hammer would make much more sense than not letting him hammer. Unless Toog's role was "if you hammer one of your partners you die", which makes NO sense at all. Also, I don't think Chick's post was a defense, since there was a lot of consensus on Toog being town. I see that post much more like a "look at me I'm doing something", contributing nothing new to the game, than a defense.

Yeah, also why does scum!Clem draw attention to it? Why not just do it and say nothing?

UNVOTE:

Anyway, I want to hear Toogeloo’s view on that. - the timing of the Clem self-hammer.

[DrewVa]

P.edit. Both Clem’s self-hammer to presumably prevent Toogeloo from hammering, plus Chick’s townread of Toogeloo are pretty damning, when combined together.


VOTE: Toogeloo

Why is the former scum indicative for toogeloo

If anything it looks like clem self hammered so as to not let toog confirm their role

Yeah but it might have just been just WIFOM and not have actually had anything specific to do with him. Since Toogeloo’s role, means he can’t vote except when hammering, I don’t really see why scum would consider him that much of a threat, to want to stop him.

[DrewVa]

votecount

With 26 alive it takes 14 to lynch.

Clemency (12):

Fortian (830),

pinturicchio (1599),

RCEnigma (1601),

Wisdom (1650),

davesaz (1658),

BrightEyedFish (1731),

Alchemist21 (1750),

Tails (1913),

BuJaber (2022),

Alonzo (2242),

profii (2288),

DrewVa (2381),

BuJaber (4):

DrippingGoofball (609),

Thor665 (1438),

Varsoon (1452),

Nero Cain (2147),

Flavor Leaf (2):

Malakitty (1178),

Creature (1921),

Tails (2):

CheekyTeeky (2070),

hebichan (2122),

profii (1):

Reasonably Rational (893),

Creature (1):

Flavor Leaf (2030),

DrippingGoofball (1):

Gamma Emerald (2195),

Not voting (3):

Toogeloo,

Clemency (1442),

Amzela (1827),

(expired on 2018-12-04 02:30:00) remain.

Spoiler: mobile-friendlier

Clemency (12):

Fortian (830), pinturicchio (1599), RCEnigma (1601), Wisdom (1650), davesaz (1658), BrightEyedFish (1731), Alchemist21 (1750), Tails (1913), BuJaber (2022), Alonzo (2242), profii (2288), DrewVa (2381),

BuJaber (4):

DrippingGoofball (609), Thor665 (1438), Varsoon (1452), Nero Cain (2147),

Flavor Leaf (2):

Malakitty (1178), Creature (1921),

Tails (2):

CheekyTeeky (2070), hebichan (2122),

profii (1):

Reasonably Rational (893),

Creature (1):

Flavor Leaf (2030),

DrippingGoofball (1):

Gamma Emerald (2195),

Not voting (3):

Toogeloo, Clemency (1442), Amzela (1827),

[DrewVa]

VOTE: gamma

I recall him not voting clem so he can go

Why couldn’t scum have bussed?

[DrewVa]

Spoiler:

Chick, when you’re able, what is your read on Toog and why?

I'm town reading Toog. I think the way they initially claimed was genuine. I think it came from a place of wanting to be upfront about they wouldn't be voting. There hasn't been a lot of redeeming posts since then, but I understand the frustration.

I also don't hold it against anyone to find their "oh it exists" post scummy though.

So Chickadee, I see you're voting creature for lack of presence. Why his lack of presence specifically? And not say, Drip, or majiffy, or thor.

P.edit:

Or Mala who I forgot was in this game.

Because I find sorting Creature easy, and sorting Creature has always largely been dependent on activity.

I'm not familiar with DGB, so I'm giving that slot time to see what other people come up with, and what that slot does.
I'll sort Majiffy before days end. Of that I'm sure. I've never sorted Majiffy incorrectly.
I've played a few games with Thor, but don't feel confident in reading him atm.

So with Creature I go.

Holy shit, it's a real role...
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Actor

.......

Ugh toog that just ruined my TR on you

:\

Oh?

This seems an odd reason to lose a TR

I disagree. I think it's a perfectly acceptable reason to lose a town read. It's an odd post.

Yeah I'm on antibiotics right now and my cough has gotten much much better
<3

Good!

I'm probably only a few days behind you...

D:

Chick, when you’re able, what is your read on Toog and why?

I'm town reading Toog. I think the way they initially claimed was genuine. I think it came from a place of wanting to be upfront about they wouldn't be voting. There hasn't been a lot of redeeming posts since then, but I understand the frustration.

I also don't hold it against anyone to find their "oh it exists" post scummy though.

What is it about the post that you think makes that post more likely to come from scum?

Right now i'm very worried that your initial post about it was a vague attempt at sounding useful without actually coming from a genuine place. Especially given that I think your explanations since don't really make sense of why you'd jump in to defend Mala like that.

--
Also I seriously don't get all the hysteria surrounding Creature's posting. That was all more anti-town than Creature's posting was imo.

-DV

All I meant was that I don't scum read Mala for the conclusion she made.

Wow, this is really strange. How did I miss this? Chick did a complete 180 on her Toogeloo read to defend Mala. And then she does it again after Mala complains about Creature.

[DrewVa]

Why would a scum self hammer to prevent his partner from hammering. That makes no sense

Because it makes you ask that question. There is now the appearance that scum was concerned about Toog's role claim. Others already inferred it might be a hammer powered role of some kind instead of specifically (or only) what Toog claimed.

Then there's Chick's post that Cerb quoted which is all kinds of bad. It's one of two things:

1.) An intentional red herring from Chickadee

OR

2.) Failed WiFoM by Chickadee

Raw probabilities vastly favor #2.

Since we've already gotten one person literally chainsawing Toog and attacking the idea that Chick accidentally linked to a partner (despite my intentional withholding of our reasoning for now) ... I think I'll see how much more hole gets dug.

Suffice it to say that I'm pretty sure Toog is scum here. The reasoning is sound. Nancy picked up on it and just needs to be more confident.

~D

What do you think of the recent Chick posts, I referenced? Both of her Mala defenses are weird or Chick could just be really bad at hedging?

She both hardtown reads Toogeloo but doesn’t blame anyone for scumreading him, due to his “oh it exists” post. What do you make of that?

[DrewVa]

Remember liking these for town so far
Varsoon
Creature
RCEnigma
BrightEyedFish
pinturicchio

Need to dive
Reasonably Rational (Drixx & Cerb)
Fortian (DeasVail & Regfan)
hebichan
Nero Cain
Amzela
Malakitty
Toogeloo

Tails

Not Charmander
DrippingGoofball
Thor665
CheekyTeeky

Not so town
Flavor Leaf -- Would such an honest fellow lie about being SK? I think not
Alonzo -- Alonzo is trying really hard to be cute and that's MY JOB
Alchemist21 -- Still think he's way too funny to be town here, as town in Dolphins he was Mr. Serious Alchemist
BuJaber -- Doesn't smell townie, probably mafia, I should really look for some associatives here maybe
Wisdom -- He's pinged me a few times but I also like a lot of his analysis so maybe we just follow the busses for a while
profii -- Need to reread this actually but don't remember him being townie
Gamma Emerald -- Made a few off posts and I don't like his read of Creature atm
davesaz -- Seems really passive so far

8 "not townreads"... that's probably too many. Need to decide if I look for town in my scumreads or bother looking for scum in my nullreads. Unfortunately my scumread reads are pretty wack right now so maybe I just see if any of my nulls are scummier than {FL/Alonzo/Alch/BJ} who are all "funny people" scumreads which I don't think is actually that useful of a metric now that I think about it. I'll see if I can't get to those suggested dives tonight Nancy

--DVa

[DrewVa]

Eh, the Lightening Rod role in Overkill 1, kind of fucked scum. I seriously doubt A50 tries it again in this game. So, some other reason or could be protectives, that would make the most sense.

---

I'm feeling a lot of deja vu from the first game.

Twas me again! Not lightning rod this time, but slightly better.

I'm still an Actor, so no votes other than the Hammer for me, but the other half of my role is that I'm also a Director (I couldn't find it on the wiki). As an Actor, I can only hammer vote or be mod killed, but as a Director, I get a 1 use Global Doctor ability, which I used last night.



Even the mod got a laugh out of it.

---
Don't expect much from me though since I probably won't get too vested in the game until smaller numbers due to my voting limitations. I'll be honest, I don't really have reads on anyone since I'm not putting a lot of effort into sorting people out at the moment.

Ta ta for now.

But you obviously have some reads. Because you probably blocked a scum kill, right?

[DrewVa]

Okay, I'm actually having doubts about the Global Doctor part

Well, if he has no reads, how does he figure out who to save?

[DrewVa]

lmao

Just realized mod used a survivor wincon on his sample town role PM

Spoiler: Sample Town Role PM
Hello Almost50

You are "Cosmo Carboni" (from: Paradise Alley 1978). You are a hustler and a con artist, who initially got his youngest brother into professional wrestling, but now feels guilty about it.

Since you have nothing but your wits, you are a Hider trying to "con" your way out of this swamp. In other words, you are a Self-Aligned Survivor. You win if you are still alive by the end of the game.

"Why should I walk around looking like a boiled rag when I can have a stylish set of duds for free?"

Now be a pal and PM me back with your role to confirm you understand it and are ready to play.

Yep, based both on this and Overkill 1, I’b be surprised if there are only 2 factions in this game.

[DrewVa]

Go ahead and get modkilled then.

You claimed your only positive utility was your one shot full doctor.

You are basically just a worse vt now.

VOTE: toog

So you think I'm town, but still deserving of a vote? Ok. Honestly though, if people really want me dead, this is absolutely the best phase to do it since we lynched scum day 1 and I stopped all the kills Night 1. Think of it as a get out of paranoia jail free card. You'd probably be doing me a favor too.

But I am not going to modkill myself. That's just stupid. I'll ask mod, but every time I've seen modkills happen, the player modkilled can no longer win the game because they are turned into a neutral party.

There is a very simple solution to this - the exact same one I got shit for suggesting yesterday. Having you hammer today.

But whatever you are, you really need to make some reads. That isn’t helping your case. What is your take on the 2 Chick posts I referenced? Since they both involve you, I assume you would have an opinion on that?

[DrewVa]

Actually, if I were to bow out now, I'd have done plenty to impact the game with my global protection last night, so I'm thinking it might be for the best.

Final thoughts before I go...
Nero seems town.
DrewVa seems town.
Wisdom seems town.
One or both of RR or Varsoon seems scummy.
Cerb's GF might be scum too from what I remember reading.
DGB and hebi are just dumb, but could be scum or town.

VOTE: Varsoon

Oh wait he voted ooops

Well I wasn't expecting that.

You obviously have never played with Toogeloo before.

[DrewVa]

Oh jesus christ, why the fuck would you ever vote or run up Toog here.

People are fucking dreadful.

That’s why I said he should confirm himself last night and I got shit for it. It probably wouldn’t have made a difference, since Clem prevented that from happening but we would have known, that at least the actor part of his role was real.

[DrewVa]

More likely a vengeful or something

No, vengeful would be cool and pro-town.

so are you claiming antitown

At first I thought it may be a joke but now, I really think DGB could be a jester.

[DrewVa]

Having played with Toog b4 I think this lurky do nothing attitude more resembles his town play than his scum play. Of course, there is the possibility that could ACT like this as scum so *shrug* .

You might have just gotten a town read out of me Nero! Considering how little effort I've put into the game, using meta to define my playstyle couldn't have possibly been there to win my affections, and it might actually be genuine concern for my well being .

---

Davesaz is town if you think I'm town.

Masonry, or did you *hint-hint-wink-wink* them last night .

---

Okay, I'm actually having doubts about the Global Doctor part

I'm not about to abate your paranoia. You do what you think is best.

---

2. Is testable if toog votes right now.

No... no it's not. I will be

MODKILLED

if I vote and it's not the hammer. Nice try though.

---
No promises, but I'll 'try' to be a bit more helpful, but here's hoping that last night's death reprieve was more beneficial in regards to results people were hoping for (other than callous murderers).

So the real question is if you're town, and guaranteed to be the mislynch for today, why would you not make that vote so as to save your faction from spending a lynch on your slot?

-Cerb

Why did you encourage him to vote, if you believed he’d be modkilled?

[DrewVa]

Biggest pings for me is
1. You being a lot more jovial and less critically serious

2. You pushing Toog the way you did to vote if he were town (to save his team a mislynch?!)

3. You being really meta-aware and playing contrary to it purposefully and vocally.

That’s the part that makes no sense to me. Why would you ever push someone you townread to get themselves modkilled?

[DrewVa]

How do you verify Toog without him getting modkilled

He doesn’t, so long as he’s the hammer, if I’m understanding his role correctly.

I suppose it’s fine for now but whenever we can confirm a slot, it’s always a good thing, no?

How does that confirm him though? That just means he can cast the hammer vote, not that he can’t cast any other votes.

Well, I just thought hammering would confirm him. \_0_/

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Seriously. Tell me what you thought Toog's role was, and what line of reasoning led you to that conclusion.

-Cerb

He’s an actor, right? So, hammering doesn’t confirm like with priest?

You're asking me questions. I'm not here to explain this to you. I'm here to figure out why/how you believed what you believed.

-Cerb

I obviously need those questions answered first.

If you didn't know the answer to those questions, how did you have such certainty that it was VERY IMPORTANT that the hammer be saved for Toog?

-Cerb

This post is so ironic now. I wasn’t certain of anything except the part of him saying that the only way he could vote w/o getting modkilled, was if he hammered and when people jumped on me for that, I figured I must have misunderstood that. I didn’t scumread him, so I was fine with him not confirming but had Clem not self-hammered, Toogeloo would have never self-voted today outside of a hammer.

[DrewVa]

Having played with Toog b4 I think this lurky do nothing attitude more resembles his town play than his scum play. Of course, there is the possibility that could ACT like this as scum so *shrug* .

You might have just gotten a town read out of me Nero! Considering how little effort I've put into the game, using meta to define my playstyle couldn't have possibly been there to win my affections, and it might actually be genuine concern for my well being .

---

Davesaz is town if you think I'm town.

Masonry, or did you *hint-hint-wink-wink* them last night .

---

Okay, I'm actually having doubts about the Global Doctor part

I'm not about to abate your paranoia. You do what you think is best.

---

2. Is testable if toog votes right now.

No... no it's not. I will be

MODKILLED

if I vote and it's not the hammer. Nice try though.

---
No promises, but I'll 'try' to be a bit more helpful, but here's hoping that last night's death reprieve was more beneficial in regards to results people were hoping for (other than callous murderers).

So the real question is if you're town, and guaranteed to be the mislynch for today, why would you not make that vote so as to save your faction from spending a lynch on your slot?

-Cerb

Kinda wondering what's actually going to go down tbh.

Indeed.

Like, I just wanted the idea to be in his head so he'd go ask about it, and then if town and we got to like L-1 he could vote, get himself killed, and we'd have all the interactions to look over after getting his flip, and still have a lynch to use today.

This sequence is just ???? to me.

-Cerb

But then why didn’t you just back me on him hammering today? The previous posts mentions nothing about him hammering, just voting.

[DrewVa]

you do know a global doc was used
For all we know there could be lots of deaths

So, a global doc is not extremely different from a Lightening Rod. Like what are the odds of the same player getting such a comparible weird role, twice back to back?

[DrewVa]

(This is the silence of drixx and I furiously discussing where the fuck we went wrong)

-Cerb

Is this a lolcat type post?

This reads to me, like you’ve given up?

[DrewVa]

Not opposed to giving Jester his win personally, although I think Nancy wants to lynch scum -- DVa

[DrewVa]

Can we lynch Nero now that y'all fucked up? For real, not blaming anyone in particular because of the pandas' extintion, but get your shit together for fucks sake

Actually, if I were to bow out now, I'd have done plenty to impact the game with my global protection last night, so I'm thinking it might be for the best.

Final thoughts before I go...
Nero seems town.
DrewVa seems town.
Wisdom seems town.
One or both of RR or Varsoon seems scummy.
Cerb's GF might be scum too from what I remember reading.
DGB and hebi are just dumb, but could be scum or town.

VOTE: Varsoon

[DrewVa]

@Pint - I don't think DGBs play here makes sense as scum, let alone some strong scum PR, her play here guatentees that she never endsgames, particularly in a power role heavy and kill heavy game. She's not scum, she'll be dealt with at night at some point for sure, end of.

Now talk to me about Nero, I've got a relatively strong town read on him here, partially meta based, the rest on him coming across as town who generally has no real idea what's going on, feel like his changes of opinion and thoughts on things fit with replacing in and trying to analyse a lot of information (albeit, poorly done). I think it's rather difficult for scum to sort of fake that sort of play. So what am I missing here? Convince me that I'm misreading him here. Also talk to me about your townish leans on RR and BFE since I think that's where we most likely find scum at the moment.

Toogeloo read me correctly in Overkill 1 and here. I agree with many of those reads, he posted.

[DrewVa]

Can we lynch Nero now that y'all fucked up? For real, not blaming anyone in particular because of the pandas' extintion, but get your shit together for fucks sake

Actually, if I were to bow out now, I'd have done plenty to impact the game with my global protection last night, so I'm thinking it might be for the best.

Final thoughts before I go...
Nero seems town.
DrewVa seems town.
Wisdom seems town.
One or both of RR or Varsoon seems scummy.
Cerb's GF might be scum too from what I remember reading.
DGB and hebi are just dumb, but could be scum or town.

VOTE: Varsoon

I'm not trusting the reads of someone who explicitly said, and many times that was not paying attention to the game because of the role he had.

Well, I really can’t trust the reads of someone who is reading me incorrectly and 2 people who are, disagree with you on Nero.

Fortian has the same read on Nero and me as Toog did and you can’t say that they were also not paying attention, now can you?

[DrewVa]

@Nancy - it is amazing that throughout the whole game and everytime I mentioned you favorably or mentioned other people you townread me. When I start to say that IF IF my analysis of your character is wrong, then I would be scumreading you you switch yiur read on me.


As for Thor I think my reads must be pretty good and he is intentionally being thick so I flip out and replace out in frustration (as I've done in the past when people misunderstand my arguments repeatedly) and then because nobody listens to dead/replaced slots usually, my reads will be forgotten and/or my slot would be lynched for a the rep out, because nobody remembers the game I repped out as frustrated town, only the one where I repped out as misunderstood scum.

First off, check whether DVa or me is posting. Our reads aren’t identical. Also, what you’re saying is incorrect. I think Thor isn’t mistaken about some of your posts this game, being kind of hedgey - definitely when compared with Overkill 1. Anyway, I’m null on you rn.

[DrewVa]

I skipped the last 10 pages.

From skimming though, I'm thinking Creature is scum. I vaguely remember Tails (I think) saying Creature was in town range. Please clarify.

Up to this point in her ISO

Drew
Tails
Creature

Unlikely svs

Flavorleaf maybe.

I dont get multiball from that
Why cant it apply to singleball

Overkill 1 was multi ball, I really don't think there's any reason to think this game wouldn't be. I think all of the language thus far would conclude so.


@Amz
Pocketing/buddying (Get in my pockets, listen to me. My pockets are warm and cozy)
Multiball = multiple non town factions
Singleball = one non town faction

Soft defense of Gamma?

Wisdom no.
Fortian no.
RR maybe?

CREATURE PLS STOP

I feel like Creature still hasnt done anything

So join me in voting him?

RCE no.
Profii unlikely.
Varsoon unlikely.

oh nero, i've played with you once
my first game ever
you hated my guts throughout the whole thing

Nero unlikely?

cerb sweaty why are you so angry
its just game
why you haf to be mad

I feel like this is a really weird thing to say to RR and even weirder that there was no response. Maybe? Maybe not? You all should just vote Gamma tbh there's nothing much here.

Wagons next.

This is obvtown Cheeky here. Doubling down on my already strong townread on her.

[DrewVa]

DID YOU KNOW?

Majiffy claimed to have a solid scum read on Chickadee due to a secret tell, yet he never voted her.

No, can you link or post it? That would really help a lot.

[DrewVa]

I call BS. There’s a multitude of reasons why a post-game explanation is bad
VOTE: Majiffy
If you’re making that type of statement you’d probably have already done analysis to support it. Since you haven’t that means it’s a crock of shit.

This seems like an opportunistic vote. Overly explained.

Do you disagree with what Gamma said here?

Tbf to Gamma, overly explaining anything is totally NAI for him. No one should ever scumread him for that, because that would be a mistake. And I definitely agree with what he said here. The only explanations, you should leave to post-game, is either anything that can hurt the integrity of a game or your wincon. A PR role, for example but not ever anything germane to the actual gamestate.

[DrewVa]

Chickadee is probably flipping scum or 3P here but

BuJ remains the ideal lynch today

.

i'll have to re-read to back up my claims but:
creature is town 100% money back guarantee
DrewVa feels off to me

i still don't see why bujaber is being considered a lynch this game

nero cain is scumleanish

However, Clem said that when he knew he was being lynched. But why wouldn’t scum!Nero hop on the Clem wagon, for towncred? Scum generally don’t like to be on town wagons but they usually don’t mind bussing - especially when the lynch is inevitable. However, since - if the sample role PM is any indication - multiball may possibly affect this.

[DrewVa]

In post 2647, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2611, hebichan wrote:
Go ahead and get modkilled then.

You claimed your only positive utility was your one shot full doctor. You are basically just a worse vt now.

VOTE: toog

EWWWWWWW
why are you trying to get someone to lose the game?

This is 100% a scumclaim post.

Why Cheeky?

[DrewVa]

Tbf to Gamma, overly explaining anything is totally NAI for him. No one should ever scumread him for that, because that would be a mistake.

I disagree.

I’ve seen him do that numerous times as town, so I don’t see how that’s necessarily AI?

[DrewVa]

You still are a member of a group of kids forming a street gang, but are generally considered to be the Underdogs of this crime-infested "warzone" town. You do everything together, which should make things easier but at the same time you have to face some serious new problems going against major crime forces, professional killers, and law enforcement officers alike.

I read the flip as multiball (major crime forces) and serial killer(s) (Professional killers)

So there is every chance that one of the players encouraging Toogeloo to hara-kiri is just a serial killer - they can appear like they are scum hunting, because that is a threat to their win con and makes them look townie, whilst at the same time just simply trying to remove people out the game.

I've definitely spotted serial killers because they just want

anyone

to die, rather than the

right

person... I need to look again but that might be happening here.

What makes RR stand out, is because he seemed to townread Toogeloo and was pushing him to get himself modkilled, where as Hebi and DGB were scumreading him att.

Having played with Toog b4 I think this lurky do nothing attitude more resembles his town play than his scum play. Of course, there is the possibility that could ACT like this as scum so *shrug* .

You might have just gotten a town read out of me Nero! Considering how little effort I've put into the game, using meta to define my playstyle couldn't have possibly been there to win my affections, and it might actually be genuine concern for my well being .

---

Davesaz is town if you think I'm town.

Masonry, or did you *hint-hint-wink-wink* them last night .

---

Okay, I'm actually having doubts about the Global Doctor part

I'm not about to abate your paranoia. You do what you think is best.

---

2. Is testable if toog votes right now.

No... no it's not. I will be

MODKILLED

if I vote and it's not the hammer. Nice try though.

---
No promises, but I'll 'try' to be a bit more helpful, but here's hoping that last night's death reprieve was more beneficial in regards to results people were hoping for (other than callous murderers).

So the real question is if you're town, and guaranteed to be the mislynch for today, why would you not make that vote so as to save your faction from spending a lynch on your slot?

-Cerb

[DrewVa]

DrewVa:How can you read my posts at the start of the day and conclude I was townreading Toog?

Majiffy tmi point by Tails is valid. Nero hasn't done a whole lot to make me think differently.

Bujaber wagon was senseless, but being the counter to scum is meaningless in multiball. We can say there's a good chance he's not on the same team as clem, bu that's it, and even that's weak given that in multiball there would be diffusion of scum force pushing for/against certain wagon, so how hard it was to get the hammer on a scum slot means less.

Whoever mentioned the chickadee post to me:Ignored because it didn't have any content and was....well, basically a post I'd expect her to make regardless of alignment given our past interactions out of game.
-Cerb

You’re correct. You said to Toogeloo, “if you’re town” here, or words to that effect. However, encouraging someone to prove they’re town by voting - to spare town a lynch or words to that effect - believing that such action will lead to their being modkilled - looks really bad and while your after the fact explanation - that being Toogeloo’s modkill reads townie, there is no way to determine if it is just spin, because

you didn’t say it until after he had been already modkilled.

I recall that Drixx had earlier advised me, earlier on D1 to get our slot NK’d if we were town. The obvious difference between the two, is that we have 0 control over that but you had every reason to believe that Toogeloo could be modkilled by voting anything other than the hammer and yet, you still pushed him to vote. And I will stress again, you never - until after the fact - specified you meant hammer.

Another thing that is pinging me about you, is that at the EOD 1, you jumped on me for suggesting Toogeloo confirm his role by hammering by accusing me of somehow being too confident on this but today, you said that I lacked the confidence to push for a Toogeloo lynch. That seemed like a contradiction to me. If you view me as a player, who lacks confidence in their reads, than your EOD 1 jumping on me for advocating Toogeloo hammer, seems disingenuous.

[DrewVa]

How do you verify Toog without him getting modkilled

He doesn’t, so long as he’s the hammer, if I’m understanding his role correctly.

I suppose it’s fine for now but whenever we can confirm a slot, it’s always a good thing, no?

How does that confirm him though? That just means he can cast the hammer vote, not that he can’t cast any other votes.

Well, I just thought hammering would confirm him. \_0_/

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Seriously. Tell me what you thought Toog's role was, and what line of reasoning led you to that conclusion.

-Cerb

He’s an actor, right? So, hammering doesn’t confirm like with priest?

You're asking me questions. I'm not here to explain this to you. I'm here to figure out why/how you believed what you believed.

-Cerb

I obviously need those questions answered first.

If you didn't know the answer to those questions,

how did you have such certainty that it was VERY IMPORTANT that the hammer be saved for Toog?

-Cerb

Why would a scum self hammer to prevent his partner from hammering. That makes no sense

Because it makes you ask that question. There is now the appearance that scum was concerned about Toog's role claim. Others already inferred it might be a hammer powered role of some kind instead of specifically (or only) what Toog claimed.

Then there's Chick's post that Cerb quoted which is all kinds of bad. It's one of two things:

1.) An intentional red herring from Chickadee

OR

2.) Failed WiFoM by Chickadee

Raw probabilities vastly favor #2.

Since we've already gotten one person literally chainsawing Toog and attacking the idea that Chick accidentally linked to a partner (despite my intentional withholding of our reasoning for now) ... I think I'll see how much more hole gets dug.

Suffice it to say that I'm pretty sure Toog is scum here. The reasoning is sound.

Nancy picked up on it and just needs to be more confident.

~D

Re: the bolded. So,which is it? Am I over or underconfident with my reads?

[DrewVa]

I feel like nero is more salty / fighty when he's scum

I've actually been trying to eat less sodium.

[DrewVa]

I want to lynch DGB today. Worst case is she's a veng that's doing nothing while alive. Because even if she isn't scum like I suspect she hasn't done anything pro-town the whole game.
VOTE: DrippingGoofball .. epic name.. can't believe I haven't noticed you in a whole year that I've been here.

Right? You seem to know I'm town but you want to lynch me as a top priority. That's the spirit, more people should do like you.

For posterity, just so no one says I've done nothing in the game, I give you this hot tip for later: 80% of the scum is on the Clemency wagon, because there's nothing like multiball to make the scum anxious to put someone in the noose, because they can claim towncred if the wagon is on a buddy, or even better... if the wagon turns up to be a scum from the other team.

80%?

[DrewVa]

P.edit. I sense a possible trap with voting this wagon. If DGB isn’t jester, she could maybe be a vengeful or,supersaint possibly? Any rate, I don’t see why scum does this and I’m staying tf clear.

[DrewVa]

I kinda want to lynch scum, though.
But I think I get it.
VOTE: DGB

Or, ideally, third paRRty

Why is lynching 3Ps more ideal than lynching mafia? I just want to lynch scum.

[DrewVa]

@Cerb (I had to make a separate post because they’re were too many quotes in it).


Okay I realize that this was by 2 different heads and you were referencing different things. That said however, I think my question is still valid. In what world does it make a lick of sense for me to be too certain in scenario A but be too underconfident in situation B?

My point obviously being, that I perceive a clear difference on your slot’s temperament read on me and I have trouble seeing both as genuine. I’m leaning the latter read, is how your slot honestly views my temperament. Of course, the different heads saying these things might also account for it but I have trouble believing you really see me as a confident player, because you are well aware of my frustrating tendency to derp and usually don’t have strong scumreads in early game. You might not be aware of the latter though, because you have only played with me as pretty much clueless town and scum before. Undertale is town!me, when I’m not really sure wtf is happening in the game, because I didn’t read the first 100 pages. I typically am far more confident when I actually do have my head in a game. That is NAI for me btw. I have been frozen as both town and scum.

[DrewVa]

So looking at what Cerb is saying about trying to coach Toog into using his role wisely - I think it looks legit.

I think RR saying that was the objective of what he was doing and it was sincere so that's a consideration for me...

Now, I've not played much (if any? IDK) multiball on here before so like the point that !otherscum! team will likely been on Clemency wagon was like an adjustment in my thinking (I'm slow ok)

But that makes me reconsider the RR and Toog episode? I guess so because now we know Toog is town, that means !scum and !otherscum would have flocked to the wagon - I think this means that if RR was scum he'd have to be like "Guys wait and see who rushes this wagon to find the other team" - I think that would be tough to do without dropping your own team in it... so not really a scum lean on RR.

But

we have the serial killer potential aspect in this game too I think. The bit that you could probably argue is that RR was using Toog to serve his own purpose - obviously a SK can scum hunt like the rest of us and wants to remove all of us so helping a town is no skin off their nose - now the bit I think I have to consider is RR coached Toog into getting associatives going (this benefits all) but ALSO voted for Toog.

now this can be explained away as "yeah I wanted to coach him and demonstrate/accelerate the lesson" but it can also be explained as "I want to remove players by applying pressure/mind games"

It comes down to how devious you consider cerb to be I think - SK lean for me.

I have never played with either scum!RR or scum!Cerb myself but Nico was very pissed at RR for apparently fooling her in a game they won as scum. Take that for what it’s worth.

[DrewVa]

I kinda want to lynch scum, though.
But I think I get it.
VOTE: DGB

Or, ideally, third paRRty

Why is lynching 3Ps more ideal than lynching mafia? I just want to lynch scum.

Removes extra kills from the game, which are more likely to land on town than scum by ratio alone.
The only way we get anything out of having third party around is if we leash them, but SaGa frontier is proof of the dangers of doing that
Furthermore, I am fairly certain that if RR is third party, they're also bulletproof.

Well, in Overkill 1. I almost posted Undertale 1 . In Overkill 1, 3Ps weren’t problematic for town, only SKs, so I’m assuming you think RR are SK, because there are probably non-threatening 3Ps in this game, who we don’t need to bother with until we get closer to LYLO. That’s why some of Bujaber’s early posts are not sitting right with me, because of his strange SK defense. Lynching mafia isn’t more optimal than lynching SKs. Any NKs other than vigkills are bad for town.

[DrewVa]

Varsoon is drawing parallels between my play here and my play as a malevolent 3p/sk varient in what I view as the most surprising 3p win on this site to justify pushing me over other individuals.

-Cerb

Can you link that game?

[DrewVa]

Who is Nico

Robin. Nico Robin aka Yume.

[DrewVa]

Some thoughts:

1.) I was the one who concluded that Toog was probably scum with Chick due to the post Cerb quoted where Chick gave a really fence sitty wishy washy "read" on Toog, which also was contradicted by other close posts. That kind of spew is (the vast majority of times) generally indicative of scum trying to WiFoM and screwing up and connecting themselves to a partner. If that post was made intentionally, then Chick was on top of it at least for that. It was the first thing I talked to Cerb about after the flip.

2.) Exploiting mechanics is kind of one of our signatures. Cerb behaving exactly as Cerb behaves shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. His reasoning for what he said and what he

didn't

say is spot on.

3.) Varsoon is really weirding me out. So far as I know, the role that won SaGa (incorrectly, since Albert B. Rampage had a killing ability) is unique. It didn't come from somewhere else and hasn't been replicated since. So ... what rationale is there to suppose we have a similar role?


@Nancy - You saw the same thing I did in regards to how Clemency acted in relation to Toog's claim. From the flip we know that Toog was more than just a hammer only role (which had to be modkilled if voted other than hammer or else the VC would "confirm" some part of the claim). Scum frequently fear that the unknown have a "worst case" ability. See Varsoon and KC in the game I referenced earlier. They were convinced I was a bomb. Without any reasoning. Similarly, it appeared that either scum wanted us to believe they were afraid of Toog (what I assumed was the case) or else really were (seems the case with updated info). That's what I said you needed to be more confidant about. You were on to that.

@Toog - Really well played. Would have been better to do that at L-2 or something but you got super high EV out of that role either way. Sorry I was wrong.

~D

I will probably have a better read on you once I check out that game. How can Cerb reason on what he “didn’t say”? Cerb is harder to read than you, tone-wise. It’s kind of weird to me but when you pushed me - as much as I hated it, it read townie to me, when Cerb did it, I got scum vibes. \_0_/

[DrewVa]

Okay okay.

I'm properly paying attention right now.

I would appreciate succinctly phrased justifications for Gamma and Nero, preferably from the progenitors of the wagons.

Thanks.

-Cerb

pedit: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=66230 I was cool cucumbers, a hydra with myself and wgeurts.

pedit x2: WHO I DIDN'T REALIZE WAS YUME UNTIL RECENTLY, SOMEHOW.

Okay thanks. I’m legit surprised at this because of what happened in BoR, which you weren’t even in.

[DrewVa]

Nancy not hard town reading me is I don't think town Nancy doesn't ever hard town read townNero

When did I say I wasn’t townreading you? Did you forget where I disagreed with Pint and referenced Toogeloo’s and Fortian’s reads townreading both of us?

[DrewVa]

Okay okay.

I'm properly paying attention right now.

I would appreciate succinctly phrased justifications for Gamma and Nero, preferably from the progenitors of the wagons.

Thanks.

-Cerb

pedit: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=66230 I was cool cucumbers, a hydra with myself and wgeurts.

pedit x2: WHO I DIDN'T REALIZE WAS YUME UNTIL RECENTLY, SOMEHOW.

Okay thanks. I’m legit surprised at this because of what happened in BoR, which you weren’t even in.

Surprised at what exactly? What happened in BoR(which is an acronym for what?)

-Cerb

Boundaries of Reality. Nico yolo desperado’d obvtown Drixx, just to get out of the game and Drixx said in that dead thread that it was for revenge. Is that right, Drixx?

[DrewVa]

Nancy not hard town reading me is I don't think town Nancy doesn't ever hard town read townNero

When did I say I wasn’t townreading you? Did you forget where I disagreed with Pint and referenced Toogeloo’s and Fortian’s reads townreading both of us?

I know you are townreading me but there was a post that I felt was a little bit of a hedge. I need you to defend me hard. Don't let that piece of hot garbage mislynch me again.

I will do what I can. Several people hardtown read you, not just me: dear departed Toogeloo, Fortian, Varsoon and probably others. Unfortunately Majiffy was kind of scummy but anyone who thinks you’re scum here, just needs to ISO you in Necromancer to tell that you’re obvtown here.

[DrewVa]

I do think it was good that Toog took the initiative and voted to confirm early instead of withholding his vote so we wouldn't spend the bulk of the day speculating on his alignment.

Why? We have to spend the day speculating on someone else’s. He could have put a rest to the speculation by hammering as opposed to feeling pushed to get himself modkilled.:/

[DrewVa]

TBF, Toog hammering doesn't exactly confirm him though.

It would have confirm the actor portion of his role.

[DrewVa]

Don't let that piece of hot garbage mislynch me again.

Who is this in reference to?

I’m guessing Wisdom? He was deathtunnelling Nero in CoH.

I didn’t like Majiffy and I wasn’t thrilled with Nero’s entrance but his posting since then has seemed townie. \_0_/

[DrewVa]

Why Gamma?
I like Gamma, iirc.

Why do you not remember your own feelings?

What? This is a really weird post.

[DrewVa]

My memory is a bad one

P.edit. I sense a possible trap with voting this wagon. If DGB isn’t jester, she could maybe be a vengeful or,supersaint possibly? Any rate, I don’t see why scum does this and I’m staying tf clear.

Another victim of DGB's mind control.

I kinda want to lynch scum, though.
But I think I get it.
VOTE: DGB

Or, ideally, third paRRty

Why is lynching 3Ps more ideal than lynching mafia? I just want to lynch scum.

Removes extra kills from the game, which are more likely to land on town than scum by ratio alone.
The only way we get anything out of having third party around is if we leash them, but SaGa frontier is proof of the dangers of doing that
Furthermore, I am fairly certain that if RR is third party, they're also bulletproof.

Well, in Overkill 1. I almost posted Undertale 1 . In Overkill 1, 3Ps weren’t problematic for town, only SKs, so I’m assuming you think RR are SK, because there are probably non-threatening 3Ps in this game, who we don’t need to bother with until we get closer to LYLO. That’s why some of Bujaber’s early posts are not sitting right with me, because of his strange SK defense. Lynching mafia isn’t more optimal than lynching SKs. Any NKs other than vigkills are bad for town.

Wrong. SK's pose a threat to mafia. Particularly in the early game where shooting is less accurate and both sides want to reduce shots that can hit them.

How am I a “victim of DGB’s mind control”? So, you’re saying that hypothetically, if we had a really strong SK read on someone, we should just ignore it and let them kill town, cuz that makes so much sense.

I was SK in Overkill 1 and I didn’t intentionally kill scum. We wrongly townread Thor. That’s right as SK, I only wanted to go after town early on but okay, SKs are great for town.

Did it ever occur to you, that SKs are also good for Mafia early on, because they increase the overall scum KP?

It’s posts like this one, why I don’t townread you here.

[DrewVa]

@Drew: Wisdom isn't pushing Nero. And I'm not sure why this would be outside of the range of scum Nero.

Well, in the past, his scumplay was pretty atrocious but it could have improved since. Well, Wisdom prefers Gamma but isn’t opposed to a Nero lynch either but you’re right, that overreaction doesn’t really make a lot of sense, since Wisdom is pushing Gamma.

[DrewVa]

I do think it was good that Toog took the initiative and voted to confirm early instead of withholding his vote so we wouldn't spend the bulk of the day speculating on his alignment.

Why? We have to spend the day speculating on someone else’s. He could have put a rest to the speculation by hammering as opposed to feeling pushed to get himself modkilled.:/

Hammering still doesn't confirm his role, it just means he has fingers. I think he does but won't assume.

The point is that we’re spending the day speculating on another slot and we just lost a town - who prevented all of the freaking NKs last night and you’re so blase about it. It wasn’t a good thing for him to be pushed to modkill himself and I don’t understand how anyone thinks this, post-flip.

[DrewVa]

I didn't really like that appeal to you.

I didn’t either. It was like, I would somehow be lockscum, if he flipped town. He was bleeding obvtown in CoH -I mean it was blatantly obvious in that game, it’s less so here. Watch, he will probably try to wagon me for these posts because anything other than me 100% townlocking him here, is apparently a scum claim.

[DrewVa]

My new favorite interaction this game.

Go to hell you

scaudenfreudian

freak.

My favourite new word, I think.

[DrewVa]

@cheeky Maybe I’m a little aggressive because you seem to hate me now?
As for why not vote elsewhere I have some considerations but I want to look things over before doing so. I don’t really have a read on RCE rn but he’s scum irl for getting a kick out of this.
@Drewva ok cool, anything more you’d like to say?

His post re Toogeloo’s flip also pinged me. His getting himself modkilled was not a good thing. As town, you should feel bad when a townie flips. It’s never a good thing.

[DrewVa]

@cheeky Maybe I’m a little aggressive because you seem to hate me now?

Wait, you're not taking that seriously right?

Yeah I am. I thought we had got along well in the past but I guess I was dead wrong.

We do it was in jest. Btw

if you're manipulating me here as scum you're a bad person.

It would also make it likely that you're on a team with someone who knows my AtE weakness.

Nancy not hard town reading me is I don't think town Nancy doesn't ever hard town read townNero

Nancy not hard town reading me is I don't think town Nancy doesn't ever hard town read townNero

When did I say I wasn’t townreading you? Did you forget where I disagreed with Pint and referenced Toogeloo’s and Fortian’s reads townreading both of us?

I know you are townreading me but there was a post that I felt was a little bit of a hedge. I need you to defend me hard. Don't let that piece of hot garbage mislynch me again.

@Cheeky, what is your take on this? Do you think Nero is manipulating me here?

I didn’t really think so but I did feel unfairly pressured by it and after Tails’ comment about not liking his appeal to me, I’m starting to wonder if Nero was actually manipulating me or not.

[DrewVa]

@cheeky Maybe I’m a little aggressive because you seem to hate me now?

Wait, you're not taking that seriously right?

Yeah I am. I thought we had got along well in the past but I guess I was dead wrong.

We do it was in jest. Btw if you're manipulating me here as scum you're a bad person. It would also make it likely that you're on a team with someone who knows my AtE weakness.

Well I’m not emotionally manipulating you. This is how I really feel.

My new favorite interaction this game.

Go to hell you

scaudenfreudian

freak.

My favourite new word, I think.

It’s real-ish, I just made a typo. It’s meant to be schaudenfreudian, based on schaudenfreud, the enjoyment of others’ suffering.

@cheeky Maybe I’m a little aggressive because you seem to hate me now?
As for why not vote elsewhere I have some considerations but I want to look things over before doing so. I don’t really have a read on RCE rn but he’s scum irl for getting a kick out of this.
@Drewva ok cool, anything more you’d like to say?

His post re Toogeloo’s flip also pinged me. His getting himself modkilled was not a good thing. As town, you should feel bad when a townie flips. It’s never a good thing.

I’m getting mixed signals here. Are you talking about Varsoon in the post I responded to or me? If it’s me, why shift to talking about Varsoon with no mention of more thought on me?

No, I was referring to RCE for his post being happy about Toogeloo modkilling himself. You referenced RCE in your post, that’s why.

[DrewVa]

I do think it was good that Toog took the initiative and voted to confirm early instead of withholding his vote so we wouldn't spend the bulk of the day speculating on his alignment.

Why? We have to spend the day speculating on someone else’s. He could have put a rest to the speculation by hammering as opposed to feeling pushed to get himself modkilled.:/

Hammering still doesn't confirm his role, it just means he has fingers. I think he does but won't assume.

The point is that we’re spending the day speculating on another slot and we just lost a town - who prevented all of the freaking NKs last night and you’re so blase about it. It wasn’t a good thing for him to be pushed to modkill himself and I don’t understand how anyone thinks this, post-flip.

Speculating doesn't bring Toog back, either Lynch RR for it or drop it.

That isn’t even the point. I have an issue with YOUR reaction to it. Don’t make this about RR. You were saying that his modkiling himself was a good thing - Post Flip. That was my point.

[DrewVa]

@Cheeky, what is your take on this? Do you think Nero is manipulating me here?

Yes he's definitely manipulating you the question is whether he's town or scum manipulating you.

I particularly dislike the first quote because he assumes you're town whilst shading you as scummy.

I don't know about the meta between you but I'd say if you've helped to convince others he's town in the past and saved him then it's possible he's doing this as town to get your help. I think scum would be more subtle about it.

Are you townreading him?

Yes but not to the degree, he seems to demand of me here. Yes, I hard defended him in CoH and after I replaced out of that game, my sub mislynched him - which probably wouldn’t have happened had I not replaced out of that game.

The bolded will be telling, if he tries to wagon me for not townlocking him and accusing me of being “hedgy”, that will definitely affect my read on him.

[DrewVa]

We only get one Lynch today Tails. If Nancy intends to Lynch a guilty party wrt Toog being pushed to vote, who else but RR whom had the biggest influence in pushing it.

I don't want to Lynch RR for that in particular, I'm just saying put up or shut up.

I’m not a fan wrt to you assuming intentions I’m not stating. I have a right to react to your Toogeloo comment and I don’t like you inferring from that, that I want to lynch RR.

[DrewVa]

How am I a “victim of DGB’s mind control”? So, you’re saying that hypothetically, if we had a really strong SK read on someone, we should just ignore it and let them kill town, cuz that makes so much sense.

I was SK in Overkill 1 and I didn’t intentionally kill scum. We wrongly townread Thor. That’s right as SK, I only wanted to go after town early on but okay, SKs are great for town.

Did it ever occur to you, that SKs are also good for Mafia early on, because they increase the overall scum KP?

It’s posts like this one, why I don’t townread you here.

You are a victim because you don't see that she is scum here.

Yes in overkill 1 where we rounded up all the good little groupscum wolves and then lynched you when you were the only wolf cub left alive. So bad of town.

You can choose to hunt SKs first and scum later and see how well you do then report back to me after a reasonable number of games.

But if you want to know more about my reasoning consider this:
Can mafia win with SK alive? Yes
Can SKs win with mafia alive? No

Therefore game can end faster with a town loss if we hunt SKs and keep mafia alive. Hunting SKs is bad. Killing suspected SK before suspected scum is bad. The whole argument is about priority and there is a huge priority to lynching scum first ESPECIALLY that unless it is an open setup with a guaranteed SK we can't know for certain that there is one.

Okay, maybe you’re misunderstanding me then. I was never intending to suggest, we prioritize SK hunting over Mafia hunting. I think we just hunt scum in general. What I was saying is that, if we hypothetically were to have a strong consensus that X player is extremely likely to be an SK, we should still lynch them, because they’d be obvscum and you should 100% always lynch obvscum. Do you agree with that?

Wrt DGB, I consider scum to be both Mafia and SK. 3Ps w/o killing roles should never get anywhere near LYLO but they should be a low priority lynch until later in the game.

Oberkill 1, immediately ended after my lynch, with 3 3Ps w/o killing roles still left in the game.

[DrewVa]

@Drew: Nero doesn't need you to protect him. That he's acting otherwise is suspect.

Thanks, noted.

[DrewVa]

Clemency was ...

Spoiler:

You are "Angelo 'Snaps' Provolone" (from: Oscar

1991

). You promised your dying father that you would give up your life of crime and "go straight". Oh, well.. promises are promises, right?

You still are a member of a group of kids forming a street gang, but are generally considered to be the Underdogs of this crime-infested "warzone" town. You do everything together, which should make things easier but at the same time you have to face some serious new problems going against major crime forces, professional killers, and law enforcement officers alike.

Your personal abilities are limited. You are a

Goon

of your gang. However, team play, skill and some luck are all you need to overcome the odds that appear to be very much against you.

"It's like disarming Germany."
"Of course I knew. I just had no idea!"

You win when you've eliminated all competition and subdued the Town.

Now how about you PM me back with your role so I know you understand it and are up for the task.

P.S. Just in case you need a fake claim at any point; you may claim "Gabe Walker" (from: Cliffhanger

1993

). You may claim your role to be a

Vanilla Townie

OR

a

Motion Detector

(depending on whether you're claiming early, so you won't corner yourself into having to provide results, or have been linked to a NK victim and want to justify your visit to them on the night they died.)

"Remember, shithead! Keep your arms and legs in the vehicle at all times!"

It's now Night 1. Deadline (expired on 2018-12-03 22:30:00)

Yes, Profii is correct. He didn’t “scumslip” here. Clem/Chick flip confirms it.

[DrewVa]

I didn't imply you wanted to Lynch RR, but if you don't then why are we still talking about Toog. Does it suck that he was forced to flip? Yes. Did I want him to flip today? Without a case predicated on Clemencys self vote...maybe. but that wasn't strong enough for me to want to flip him today.

Is it better that he flipped himself early rather than let town Duke it out on who's right or wrong, waste a large portion of the day, and miss out on hunting the ACTUAL scum connections? Imo yes.

No, him

hammering

actual scum, would have been the best thing for town, because then he’d be confirmed and still alive and we’d have lynched scum.

[DrewVa]

2. CheekyTeeky calling my theory on this awkward - It comes over weird that you would discredit the idea of multiball if you were town

Lmfao I'm not discrediting multiball I'm discrediting you spewing that there are multiple groupscum. You are TMIing and now you're panicking. Both Gamma and Profii have omgused me when pushed on their spews.

Cheeky, it literally says it in the Clem flip. Profii did not scumslip. So, no. He did not TMI.

[DrewVa]

I can't see how acting clueless about the likeliness of multiball or SKs would help you as scum.

I think she didn’t really read the flip carefully. I didn’t either until Profii pointed it out but in any case, no scumslip or TMI occured.

[DrewVa]

When the other scumteam flips, we'll refer them as

rotten

apples and oranges

FIFY.

[DrewVa]

When

scumslip! lol!1!one!

Nah, Creature is obvtown based on meta. This is 100%, his towngame here.

[DrewVa]

Last time I saw something like this, that person was scum. But more to the point, if Majiffy had some sort of tell that gave him an accurate scumread of Chick, and he knew that, why didn't he vote the guaranteed scum instead of avoiding the wagon?

Why did he have to vote one scum read over the other?

I'm not opposed to a Nero lynch fwiw so either is fine I guess.

Didn't you just argue that I'm not scum w/Gamma? If so depending on whether or not you think its MB or not, I'm at least 50% cleared. Why does town that believes that ever lynch me here?

Also, there's more than 3 scum in a 26 player, who else ya got?

It was like, I would somehow be lockscum, if he flipped town.

hey, you said it not me.

after Tails’ comment about not liking his appeal to me, I’m starting to wonder if Nero was actually manipulating me or not.

Sounds like Tails is doing the manipulating, not me.

@Drew: Nero doesn't need you to protect him. That he's acting otherwise is suspect.

She just said I got mislynched w/o her.

What makes you think I DON'T need one of the few people that seems to understand a town Nero? Especcially in a game with a large # of scum that are going to try to lynch me. I need her now more than ever.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You can’t both scumread me and demand my protection. So, which is it?

How is Tails manipulating me here?

[DrewVa]

The thing that I hate about Toog is that I wish he let it go on a bit longer and maybe get a big wagon on him. Prob a ton of scum woulda hopped on.

For sure.

[DrewVa]

I didn't imply you wanted to Lynch RR, but if you don't then why are we still talking about Toog. Does it suck that he was forced to flip? Yes. Did I want him to flip today? Without a case predicated on Clemencys self vote...maybe. but that wasn't strong enough for me to want to flip him today.

Is it better that he flipped himself early rather than let town Duke it out on who's right or wrong, waste a large portion of the day, and miss out on hunting the ACTUAL scum connections? Imo yes.

No, him

hammering

actual scum, would have been the best thing for town, because then he’d be confirmed and still alive and we’d have lynched scum.

I don't know how many times it has to be said that Toog hammering would have done nothing to confirm him other than to prove he had a vote.
Beginning to wonder if this is scum trying to push a false narrative.

How is it a false narrative? It would have confirmed his role. By confirming his role, he gobal doc claim would have been far more likely to be believed.

My townlean on you just plummeted.

[DrewVa]

The !1!one! Inferred a joke

Okay. Glad to hear it.

[DrewVa]

I didn't imply you wanted to Lynch RR, but if you don't then why are we still talking about Toog. Does it suck that he was forced to flip? Yes. Did I want him to flip today? Without a case predicated on Clemencys self vote...maybe. but that wasn't strong enough for me to want to flip him today.

Is it better that he flipped himself early rather than let town Duke it out on who's right or wrong, waste a large portion of the day, and miss out on hunting the ACTUAL scum connections? Imo yes.

No, him

hammering

actual scum, would have been the best thing for town, because then he’d be confirmed and still alive and we’d have lynched scum.

I don't know how many times it has to be said that Toog hammering would have done nothing to confirm him other than to prove he had a vote.
Beginning to wonder if this is scum trying to push a false narrative.

Testing something.
VOTE: Hebichan

Shading me for ridiculous reasons and voting hebi.

[DrewVa]

I didn't imply you wanted to Lynch RR, but if you don't then why are we still talking about Toog. Does it suck that he was forced to flip? Yes. Did I want him to flip today? Without a case predicated on Clemencys self vote...maybe. but that wasn't strong enough for me to want to flip him today.

Is it better that he flipped himself early rather than let town Duke it out on who's right or wrong, waste a large portion of the day, and miss out on hunting the ACTUAL scum connections? Imo yes.

No, him

hammering

actual scum, would have been the best thing for town, because then he’d be confirmed and still alive and we’d have lynched scum.

I don't know how many times it has to be said that Toog hammering would have done nothing to confirm him other than to prove he had a vote.
Beginning to wonder if this is scum trying to push a false narrative.

How is it a false narrative? It would have confirmed his role. By confirming his role, he gobal doc claim would have been far more likely to be believed.

My townlean on you just plummeted.

Toog votes, a hammer happens, day ends.

Nothing would have been

confirmed

by that.

I'm having trouble believing anyone can be this dense.
Even if you're trying to say that hammering

scum

would make him "town" that fails the most basic logic tests too by assuming that scum can't/won't hammer and ignorming the near certainty that the game is MB.
I guess proficiency at logic is not AI, but jury's out on whether refusing to listen to the superior logic of others is.

No, you’re the one who’s being “dense” here. Toogeloo had never voted, so hammering back’s up his claim. Otherwise, it looks like he made up a role as an excuse for not voting.

[DrewVa]

So you're pushing me based on barely post RVS stuff from hundreds of pages ago? Huh.

Thought more people would be voting me based off my bad toog push there.


VOTE: RR


Honestly, Nah fuck your slot.

A hundred pages ago! And nothing you've done since then is actually interesting, so your bad reaction is *still* bad. *shrug*

-Cerb

Which is why reaction tests are bullshit and I'm not going to police myself to react however the hell MS wants me to.

But I honestly think you're scum anyhow, so kay.

No reaction tests are really useful because it’s difficult to fake a reaction. I don’t often do them but when I have, they’ve never been wrong - not even once.

[DrewVa]

1. My memory sucks, I don't remember.

2. You bringing up your scum meta makes me trust it less.

(posts like that are never meant for the people I'm responding to...they're meant for the other people in the game who I know are at least somewhat familiar with us)



That aside though, you should never trust the meta of a competent player. My very self-awareness about meta things is the reason why 1) Varsoon is being silly trying to draw a meta connection between my play here and my play...like...over a year ago...with a different hydra partner, and 2) ...Actually, I don't think I have a 2. Just a general warning about meta being crap alone, but having some value as an indicator of where to pay attention; acting out of character being more significant than acting IN CHARACTER with a certain alignment.

Oh right.

If anybody has any NU, they should claim it now. They should have claimed it yesterday, but I'll give you a pass because I was dumb and didn't crawl up everyone's ass about it.

I'm looking at you DGB, but anyone else should do so as well!

-Cerb

NU?

[DrewVa]

I dont see a slip

. Get back on hebi.

+1

[DrewVa]

I dont see a slip. Get back on hebi.

I don’t see a slip either, but Creature’s still scum. He might not have slipped, but I’ll take the wagon.

If you don’t see a slip, why are you scumreading him? Has everyone forgotten about the Clem role flip? Scum!Creature would be lurking now or frozen, because that’s exactly what he did in Heroes Wanted, when he got called out for “slipping”.

That, or he starting hyperposting really scummy shit.

He isn’t frozen and he isn’t lurking, because he’s freaking town here.

[DrewVa]

Ah, man, I’m actually getting scum vibes from the wagon forming on Creature off of reading the past page alone...

Good, not everyone has lost their freaking minds suddenly.

[DrewVa]

An hour late Creature.

Are you gonna judge me based on how long I take dining?

If you eat chicken, it means that you and Chick are linked, duh!

[DrewVa]

Varsoon:

We would be well off with a heb lynch today. How many times do I have to hint at it?

All anti-Town players have been provided with proper fake claims.

Hmm, is it really?

Oh nvm, Clemency flipped goon

So we got the other scumteam's goon

Just in case you need a fake claim at any point; you may claim "Gabe Walker" (from: Cliffhanger 1993). You may claim your role to be a Vanilla Townie OR a Motion Detector

Creature, please explain how the last three posts of this set of quotes relate to anything that was said in close proximity to them. That is, how any of them are in any way an organic part of the posting occurring in this thread.

-Cerb

Based on the mechanics of Overkill 1, even if Creature were somehow scum here, he, still probably would not he privy to that kind of info. Your Creature push is bullshit and his wagon is gross.

[DrewVa]

Hmm.

Actually. I sort of see a way it could be a legit not scum slip, when I put them all in a quote together like that.

:-/.

-Cerb

I don’t think you really understand the meaning of the term.

Not scumslip: what Creature actually said.

Actual scumslip: Good/bad we didn’t/did lose OUR goon

Can you see the difference?

One applies to info, that scum would actuality have, the other is extremely unlikely.

You’re on roll here, first you push town!Toog to modkill himself, now you want to likely mislynch Creature.

[DrewVa]

Like, if creature is literally just talking to himself, and not actually completing any of his thoughts? :-/ I guess it could be a not-scum thing. *sigh*

-Cerb

Where in Overkill 1 did any of the scums know anything about the other ones? Mafia and traitor didn’t even know each other.

For the POV of setup logic, the scumread on Creature makes 0 sense.

[DrewVa]

VOTE: hebichan

As long as there's a guilty on me, I suppose.

Are you lolcatting?

Why would town!you ever self-vote here?

[DrewVa]

Oh. BEF guiltied her.

Ouch.

Hebichan.

Breaking my heart

Its okay, I will flip town and you can rub it in everyone's face.

VOTE: hebichan

As long as there's a guilty on me, I suppose.

Would you guys believe that I’ve just been softing Mason Lovers with Hebichan all game, and if she dies, I die, and nobody wants to lose this game’s Flavor?

Why is hebi self-voting instead of claiming mason lovers with you?

[DrewVa]

UNVOTE:

3230 was the core of the supposed scumslip. That phrasing looked really out of place.
I now believe the correct interpretation is "town got a guilty on someone who claimed VT which makes this the other team's goon because that is the same as the fakeclaim given to Chick/Clemency".
It's a stretch to think that multiple teams even have corresponding roles, and a bigger stretch to think the fakeclaims would be symmetric.
But it's consistent for town Creature to say something like that.

I don't think I have ever seen a legit scumslip of this type. I have a vague impression that the people who point that kind of thing out tend to be scum more often than town, but sadly I have not been keeping notes on it.

VOTE: Hebichan

My FOS on RR got a lot stronger from their Creature push.

[DrewVa]

What's more damning is that Creature posted that and just ghosted.
VOTE: Creature

That is yikes
But apparently Hebi self-voted which is weird as fuck since there’s this going on

Beacause Creature didn’t scumslip. As I keep saying ad nauseum, even if Creature were actually scum here, he wouldn’t know anything specific about any other scum team. And anyone who played in Overkill 1 who pushed him, either have forgotten this or are scum.

[DrewVa]

VOTE: hebichan

As long as there's a guilty on me, I suppose.

Yeah no
VOTE: Hebichan

VOTE: Hebichan

I don’t see why town!Hebi self-votes here.

[DrewVa]

What's more damning is that Creature posted that and just ghosted.
VOTE: Creature

That is yikes
But apparently Hebi self-voted which is weird as fuck since there’s this going on

Yeah it doesn't look good for Hebi. Not a fan of the AtE but I still want to wait on Bef to comment.

She self-voted. Why does town!Hebi do this?

[DrewVa]

I'm not arguing her innocence, she's likely the lynch regardless of Befs input.

If I’m town in a game, where someone claims a guilty on me, unless I’m either a miller or there’s some bizarro mechanics to account for it, I lose it on the player pushing that fake guilty on me. What I don’t do is roll over and self-vote.

I have had this happen - someone claiming fake guilty on me and I promised to destroy their meta, if they didn’t retract it, which they did. That player obviously flipped scum.

OTOH, if I know I’m dead to rights, I don’t react that way and probably lolcat, if I think that guilty has any decent chance of being legit.

[DrewVa]

I'm not arguing her innocence, she's likely the lynch regardless of Befs input.

If I’m town in a game, where someone claims a guilty on me, unless I’m either a miller or there’s some bizarro mechanics to account for it, I lose it on the player pushing that fake guilty on me. What I don’t do is roll over and self-vote.

I have had this happen - someone claiming fake guilty on me and I promised to destroy their meta, if they didn’t retract it, which they did. That player obviously flipped scum.

OTOH, if I know I’m dead to rights, I don’t react that way and probably lolcat, if I think that guilty has any decent chance of being legit.

That's fair, I don't think it's good play regardless of alignment. But I'm in the same boat. Resigning to the possible guilty and self voting is very condemning.

Scum knows if they’ve been caught and they eventually don’t really have much choice but resign themselves to the inevitable. I dunno, I have yet to be in a game, where scum survives a legit guilty. So, we don’t need to hear from BEF, Hebi’s self-vote and reasoning made that unnecessary.

[DrewVa]

You're after gamma btw.

We'll DOUBLE cop her!

Count me in

ALL COPS ON CHEEKY TONIGHT!

Lol yeah let's tell scum they're safe by getting all invests on me. You're either dumb or scum.

Hm, this is some interesting behavior, I wonder if there’s a term to describe it? Maybe a phrase that abbreviates to 5 letters?

WIFOM?

[DrewVa]

Good, I hate being proven wrong.

Well, I initially townread her too - up until she self-voted because of the guilty.

[DrewVa]

Actually, scratch that, I fight them more as scum. Honestly I just hate being town because I have no idea how to push back against being implicated, and I default to ATE, which is a bad feeling.

Well, if you actually are town, then BEF is probably scum. But why don’t you argue it’s fake, if that is actually the case? You never ever self-vote in response to a guilty, unless you’re actually scum.

[DrewVa]

Also, I'd normally think lyncher if going 3p. But then again,

I normally think scum if a guilty is faked on me

.

+1

Especially, if it’s not a reaction test, and the other player is seriously pushing it. I personally think, faking guilties is a really bad idea in general, because if you ever are in a game, where you actually have one, no one will believe you.

[DrewVa]

Nobody died on N1.

But you already knew that!

Police have confirmed the disappearance of the corpse of one

Nero Cain

The deceased was killed in a hit and run earlier today. Police have given no further details.

Also the corpse of some human

Creature

was found in a back alley, were they appeared to have been shot and left bleeding to death. No further information about them could be found either.

Meanwhile, a bizarrely dressed female who goes by the name of

CheekyTeeky

was reported as "possibly shot" by an anonymous phone call. Police officers revealed they inspected the address given by the caller, and while there blood traces they could not find any dead bodies.

Finally,

Malakitty

went missing. It is rumoured that she tripped and fell into a container full of hydrochloric acid, thus leaving her as an untraceable vat of liquid much, Again, the police spokesperson didn't comment.

This means there were 4 deaths on N2.

Are all the nightkills flipless? At least 2 of them. we’re clearly janitored.

[DrewVa]

Nero = hit and run

Creature = appeared to be shot

Cheeky = “possibly shot”

Mala = acid


So 2 shots and 2 distinctly different kill methods

My guess is 2 scum kills (shots)
And 2 3p kills (someone who has a driving flavour and an acid flavour) - who is familiar with films to flavour game that?

Also - cheeky “possibly shot” - maybe that means the janitor paid particular attention there as they were team mates because the hint from the theme is there

Aaaand finally 2 cop references so the cops will know if thats driven by night actions - given some of the flavour so far, multiple cops wouldn’t be a surprise?



I don’t play many themes - that’s the most I’ve ever paid attention to flavour - am I over-interpreting it or is any of that potentially clues?

Ah good catch, I remember A50 bringing attention to the method of the kill in Overkill 1.

[DrewVa]

Any Stallone buffs know which films involved acid or hit and run kills?

[DrewVa]

According to rule 8, that was at most 2 town flips and at least 2 non-town, given that 2 town had already flipped.
It is possible that up to all 4 flips could be non-town, of at least 2 different factions.

So, at least 2 deaths were scum.

Acid and hit and run, point to 2 SK kills.

Creature was obvtown and 100% a scumkill, probably Mafia.

Cheeky must have also been a scum kill, unless, she was vigged and Mafia also janitored her?

Mala had weird associatives to Chick. She could be mafia?

So, the other scum would have to be between Cheeky and Nero.

[DrewVa]

@tails, That may be worth questioning.

@Mod: The anti-town part of rule 8 can be read two ways, limit 2 total anti-town (faction not being a factor) or limit 2 for any given anti-town faction. Which is it?

It says "faction" not "faction

s

", so if there are multiple anti-town factions each of them is treated separately.

Also, Toog's flip was not accounted for, and did/does not count towards that particular rule.

Put another way, the Town can have up to 4 deaths at night if they lynch non-Town or No Lynch. If they mislynch then there can only be a max of 3 Town deaths at that night. Any other "day death" aside from the lynch doesn't count.

Okay, so only one had to be scum.

[DrewVa]

...?

My role allows me to pick my own flavor if someone dies because of my role. I have a two part role, one that requires me to have a targeting mechanic, and one that happens passively after something happens. I don’t know when, if that occurs, or if it has occurred already.

The death implies that this

passively

has happened already, because I didn’t target said player who died with my flavor.

Could some of the deaths have had weak modifiers or is someone a PGO?

[DrewVa]

One of the kills is flavor that I specifically told Almost through my role, so that’s not necessarily the best way to look at it.

I’ve already claimed that one of those kills were likely because of me based on the flavor. I think that part of my role helps me figure out if I target people or not.

I’m bringing this up because I can potentially kill people who target me.

So...
Who'd you kill?

I was going for RCEnigma.

So you're saying you were redirected?

If we can figure it out, i might not have to waste a third shot trying to kill RCE basically.

So, scum must have a redirector then? So, either the kill got redirected to Creature or Cheeky?

Since it looks like Cheeky’s was janitored, I’m guessing Creature.

[DrewVa]

Oh. It was just to like state “i second this”.

BEF claimed a guilty on hebi, Hebi flipped VT. Time to figure that one out, is that a wrong state of mind to be in?

Not at all, and BEF has a lot of ‘splaining to do about that fake guilty on Hebi.

[DrewVa]

I would've voted hebi if I were here at the time so no blame.

Nero was the scum, stop asking yourselves about that.

Are we going to do something about DGB now?

Yoi don’t know that.

[DrewVa]

How do you know I don't know that?

There weren’t any flips?

[DrewVa]

This is taken from Death Race 2000 wikipedia

At first, the Resistance's plan works. Nero is killed when he runs over a booby-trapped doll planted by the Resistance, which he mistakes for a real baby and proceeds to run it over to gain points. Matilda drives off a cliff while following a fake detour set up by the Resistance. Calamity Jane, who witnessed Matilda's death, inadvertently drives over a land mine trying to leave the area. This leaves only Frankenstein and Machine Gun Joe in the race.

Probably uselsess but ironic nonetheless.

[DrewVa]

So what

What do you mean, “so what”?

No one was flipped but you say for sure, he flipped scum.

[DrewVa]

what

I would've voted hebi if I were here at the time so no blame.

Nero was the scum, stop asking yourselves about that.

Are we going to do something about DGB now?

[DrewVa]

Why the random reference to Death Race 2000? Is that one of Stallone’s movies?

Yes, I was trying to match the method of the kills - both acid and hit and run, to the flavour. It’s difficult to check this unless you are actually familiar with his films. Still batting 0 on acid. So, it’s better if some huge Stallone buff remembers.

[DrewVa]

... are you kidding me right? She took something I said by it's literal meaning and I was messing around because I OBVIOUSLY can't know by fact if Nero was scum or not, unless I was soft claiming, which it would be pointless by now thanks to DrewVa.

Well, don’t blame me. You said you knew he was scum and you were heavily scumreading him yesterday, so I just assumed it was an opinion. Sorry. :/

[DrewVa]

If the guilty is not legit then there is something strange going on.

@protective roles
Keep my buddy RCE alive please or whoever you want around. My results could be tainted if heb flips town. Guess we see what I get tonight but if heb somehow flips town then I will only post my result if requested as to not skew peoples SRs.

Can’t wait.

[DrewVa]

Meanwhile, a bizarrely dressed female who goes by the name of CheekyTeeky was reported as "possibly shot" by

an anonymous phone call

. Police officers revealed they inspected the address given by the caller, and while there blood traces they could not find any dead bodies.

Could there be a ninja scum in this game?

[DrewVa]

nero was almost certainly the antitown death

wish i knew what faction though

Based on the his entrance, hard defending Chick, I’d guess Mafia.

I told eveyone that majiffy was different as town and everyone just laughed.

[DrewVa]

I offer you alchemist as an alternate.

Possibly one or two others depending on what they post today.

But basically all the cases and votes on creature this game were scummy. The only justified ones were the ones before he posted his first post.

Pedit - obviously has changed definitions lately?

I know I have alot of explaining to do. I am very busy this weekend but I'll try to be as helpful as possible.
I don't know if I was redirected or something like that but I did get a guilty on Heb.
There is nothing in my role pm that explains why heb flipped VT with a guilty.
My N2 action brought about a No Result and again I can't explain why.
I am reluctant to say who I targeted because my results from the Nights can not be confirmed (even a No Result) after the Heb flip.

I thought it was Flavor who was redirected, not you and why would scum redirect you anyhow? Flavor softed his role but why you? And if you wern’t redirected, how tf do you get a fake guilty on a vt?

[DrewVa]

@Wisdom - Not gonna lie, I didn’t read the thread enough to know about BEF’s soft inno on RCE, and I just picked RCE because I shot there night 1.

That could make sense about the slot being bodyguarded

So Mala bg’d RCE?

[DrewVa]

1. Full explicit role claim
2. Why BEF chose Hebi
3. Who and why BEF chose night 2
4. The result from night 2
5. An explaination of the tainted comment

1. I don't want to do a full claim right now as it will be detrimental to my survival.
However, I am Rambo.

2. I chose Hebi because he was a null read.

3. Drewa was my N2 target and also because of my null read.

4. No Result

5. I believed Hebi's posts after the hammer which made me think he would flip what he claimed thus making my Result tainted.

You got a “no result” on me?

You believed her,

after the hammer

? Yeah, that’s super helpful.

[DrewVa]

I can't explain the guilty result on Heb. Maybe I was redirected or I have some hidden modifier or something along those lines

Not nearly good enough

VOTE: BEF

[DrewVa]

I get why people want to vote me, even if they see it as a policy lynch. However, if I get to L-1 someone with a power role should not hammer.

You’re a super saint?

[DrewVa]

are you claiming supersaint?
if so we should have someone scummy hammer you

Unfortunately, there’s probably only one player who’d be willing and we all know who that is.

[DrewVa]

are you claiming supersaint?
if so we should have someone scummy hammer you

Unfortunately, there’s probably only one player who’d be willing and we all know who that is.

cool
lets have dgb hammer

Yep, well she wants it anyway and this way, we don’t have to waste a lynch on her.

[DrewVa]

DrewVa - I take it you have no idea why the no result on you happened? It must have been an external influence etc

No, and I also have no idea how BEF got a guilty on Hebi either.

So, until BEF explains how he got his results, I’m not putting stock into any of it.

[DrewVa]

or both results were made up

Yeah, BEF’s explanation doesn’t add up. Could BEF be an insane cop who got roleblocked? \_0_/

[DrewVa]

nero was almost certainly the antitown death

wish i knew what faction though

Based on the his entrance, hard defending Chick, I’d guess Mafia.

I told eveyone that majiffy was different as town and everyone just laughed.

And you also told me that Nero was probably town since Toog read him as town.

But my meta check wasn’t wrong. Majiffy’s town game was dramatically different from his scumgame. As for Nero, he has improved dramatically as scum since Necromancer, so Sakura’s metacheck on him in Heroes, is no longer relevant.

[DrewVa]

or both results were made up

Yeah, BEF’s explanation doesn’t add up. Could BEF be an insane cop who got roleblocked? \_0_/

Why would Bef be roleblocked if he just claimed a guilty on a VT?

Well, that would explain those results - insane for Hebi and roleblocked for me.

Because otherwise, they make 0 sense.

[DrewVa]

Don't forget. I am Rambo. Would that make me town or scum? A full claim would most centainly make me a next NK.

Rambo doesn’t even fit a cop role of any kind. lol. Rambo fits compulsive insane vig or something.

[DrewVa]

Yeah but then someone else would have to corroborate that story and then who's to say they couldn't be partners if someone did come forward?

Well, since he won’t explain how he arrived at his results, all we can do is speculate, or just assume he’s straight up lying. I would assume that if he was actually an insane cop, he wouldn’t have declared a guilty in the first place.

[DrewVa]

also im voting bef
guess it has to be like this

VOTE: Brighteyedfish

But it doesn't. I get that I can't be trusted and that makes it easy and understandable for a policy lynch. If that's the case, well then I can't change that. But still we don't have to let the day go to waste.
I want to help scum hunt but I feel as like I have to keep defending my play so far. I'm Rambo and I am town-aligned. The longer I am in the game the more powerful I get. My modifiers are not static. I'm practically lynch proof unless a certain role throws the hammer. (things like this are why I didnt want to full claim) If another role throws the hammer then I will be fine, but other

s

on the wagon will not.

I said the things about protecting RCE just because I don't need any night protection, at least not yet, and I wanted to *hint* for any protective roles to use their powers elsewhere. I will be fine unless I get targeted for a NK on multiple nights or by multiple factions.

As to my results, only A50 knows why they were the way they were. I wish I could tell you more but I'm as much in the dark as the rest of you.

If this is actually true and voters for you are in jeopardy if the wrong role hammers, then it is extremely antitown of you to withhold this information from us.

[DrewVa]

What's your read of dave, wisdom? -dva

[DrewVa]

So Sakura’s extensive metacase on Nero still holds. Good to know.

Glad we now get flips. I was afraid the entire game was going to be flipless NKs.

[DrewVa]

I'm voting preferably outside the Chickadee wagon

You do get that this is multiball right? I may be biased but it's more likely there are scum ON the wagon with how long it was a thing for and how frozen Clemency was, giving no reads or analysis near the end.

Other team scum wouldn't make this post.
Same team or town would.

What do you make of this post? -DVa

[DrewVa]

Someone joined a large game called Overkill and thought it wasn't going to be multiball? -DVa

[DrewVa]

I'm not sure why Alonzo's result even matters here; we've only had one vanilla flip out of what, like 10 people? Doesn't make Gamma guilty but I'd like to see a stronger "Gamma is scum" argument than "Alonzo showed him as non-vanilla" which tells us almost nothing -- DVa

[DrewVa]

Eh, if Gamma is scum I'd think he's more likely paired with DGB, that's a lot closer to how scum Gamma treats scumbuddies.

btw why haven't we given DGB his jester win yet? -DVa

[DrewVa]

BEF would not have known who Alonzo's target was, based on A50's previous statements about how results would be displayed; he clearly stated results are in teh form of "your target", with no indication of who the target is; therefore, BEF would not have known who the guilty was on.

I do need to analyze the posts from Nero to see if there's any indication of who he targeted so we can make sure we're not walking into a bus driven mislynch.

-Cerb

I asked the mod about that. Alonzo’s results aren’t randomized or chosen by him. There are 3 results-getting backups. in case 2 of them died. Right @A50?

[DrewVa]

I'm not sure why Alonzo's result even matters here; we've only had one vanilla flip out of what, like 10 people? Doesn't make Gamma guilty but I'd like to see a stronger "Gamma is scum" argument than "Alonzo showed him as non-vanilla" which tells us almost nothing -- DVa

Also, the way Cheeky was hardpushing him, makes me think that they are never w/w here.

[DrewVa]

I'm sick. I'll either be here a lot...or not at all. We'll see. Have fun kids.

Nice setup of using you being sick as a potential alibi for coasting!

Ew.

Chickadee is probably flipping scum or 3P here but BuJ remains the ideal lynch today.

I feel that this statement warrants explanation.

-Cerb

Post-game, maybe.

Maybe

Why only postgame, what advantage would that give?

I call BS. There’s a multitude of reasons why a post-game explanation is bad
VOTE: Majiffy
If you’re making that type of statement you’d probably have already done analysis to support it. Since you haven’t that means it’s a crock of shit.

Can we get chickadee today and DGB tomorrow? If I need the puppy dog eyes ok but...

No.
Chick/Clem seems to be a LHF push based on activity

I'm gonna place a bet that Gamma flips the same team as Chick.

So, you’re saying that Cheeky is on another scumteam.

Ah okay.

[DrewVa]

There are 15 alive out of 26 to start the game.

8 dead town, 1 dead from each of two different factions(so we're not close to reducing KPN at all), and 1 3p.

Why do you think we have the time to spend a lynch on someone you suspect is a jester?

There's at least three more anti-town with three flipped anti-town, including one neutral. At this point it's pretty obvious there's 2 scum teams and a serial killer; in addition to that, we already have a day 3 survivor flip.

We're looking at 20:6 already, and if either of the mafia teams have more than 2 members, then we'd be 19:7 or 18:8. I don't see how we have room for a jester in the setup so if he's going to basically hardclaim jester, then he is likely to flip scum if the setup doesn't really have room for a jester.

Worst case scenario, we give Jester his win, which is always funny to me; best case, we hit a group scum trying to pretend to be third party.

-DVa

[DrewVa]

I think I missed some pages on VLA but would need to look to be sure.
Has someone claimed to receive results which would have come from Alonzo? I haven't been looking closely for that.

No but based on what A50 told me, there absolutely should be. I am still waiting on him to respond to my follow up question but I think he’s probably sleeping rn.

[DrewVa]

Idk some thought vomit to try to sort the different categories of possible scum.

Townish
Varsoon
pinturicchio

The nullish category -- Nancy has reads on some of these
Tails
profii
Thor665
Fortian
Amzela

Wisdom Category
Wisdom -- He's pinged me a lot early game but I also follow a lot of his thought processes so idk about wagoning him rn

Potential group scum -- I think the cases on these people are more based on associations, it seems unlikely they are third party killers based on play, don't feel like they've playing toward solo endgames
Gamma Emerald
BuJaber
Reasonably Rational

Could be group scum, could be serial killers -- slots that are all suspicious independently
Flavor Leaf -- claimed vig-like role I think?, has acted very ??? for lot of the game, lot of sk wifom, but not sure if he's so open about his role if so
davesaz -- his comment about cheeky has me thinking; feel a little bit like he's specifically trying to hunt group scum while not really getting on anyone's radar
DrippingGoofball -- given the flips I'm finding jester less plausible

-DVa

[DrewVa]

These were the flips of the 4 found corpses

Nero Cain was ...

Spoiler:

You are "Lincoln Hawk" (from: Over the Top

1987

). Although this town is crime infested you are more concerned about winning back your son and winning at the world arm wrestling championships. You're a trucker though, so that must count for something.

OK, you are a

Bus Driver

aligned with the Town. With some good skill and reads you can very much sway this game Town's way, or you can severly demolish all it's chances to eliminate this evil.

"What I do is I just try to take my hat and I turn it around, and it's like a switch that goes on. And when the switch goes on, I feel like another person, I feel, I don't know, I feel like a... like a truck. Like a machine."

"All I can say is I made a mistake. I know that. You know, sometimes that happens in life. We all make mistakes, but it won't happen again."

As always; you win when all threats to town have been eliminated. GOOD LUCK.

Now just PM me back with your role so I know you understand it and are up for the task.

Malakitty was ...

Spoiler:

You are "Marion Cobretti" (from: Cobra

1986

). You are a tough-on-crime street cop, and you must protect the innocents from all the violence that has plagued this town.

You thus are a

non-weak

Elite Body Guard

aligned with the Town. Your job is to die for the cause, so let's hope you don't die defending the wrong person, but even if you do; chances are you're taking another bad guy with you.

"I don't deal with psychos. I put them away."

You have the standard win con of the Town; which is to eliminate all evil to get your win. GOOD LUCK.

Now just PM me back with your role so I know you understand it and are up for the task.

CheekyTeeky was ...

Spoiler:

I dunno what to say. You are "Stud/The Italian Stallion" (from: The Party at Kitty and Stud's

1970

). All you need to know is it was an X-rated flick, so with no further ado: You're a

Mafia Roleblocker

).

Kitty

: Someday you'll be known as the Italian Stallion.

Stud

: Let's get high.

You win when you've eliminated all competition and have gained control over the town.

Now how about you PM me back with your role so I know you understand it and are up for the task.

P.S. Just in case you need a fake claim at any point; you may claim "Robert Rath" (from: Assassins

1995

). You are a

Jack Of All Trades

(One Roleblock, One Cop, One Doctor), and if challenegd for the abilities you may point out that those are the abilities of a JOAT from the Great Idea Mafia page and even claim you asked me the same and that this was my response.

"Sure. And after that, if you don't mind, I'd like to go to the hospital."

Creature was ...

Spoiler:

You are "Freddy Heflin" (from: Cop Land

1997

). As the Sheriff of a suburban New Jersey community, populated by New York City police officers, you slowly discover the town is a front for mob connections and corruption.

You are thus a

Watcher

and you need to try and find some crime perpetrators before the whole town is subverted and taken over by the mobs.

"I look at this town, and I don't like what I see."

Obviously

you are aligned with the Town

and have the standard win con of eliminating all evil to get your win. GOOD LUCK.

PM me back with your role so I know you understand it and are up for the task.

Also to my fellow townies:

You do realise that BrightEyedFish is single-handedly responsible for 50% of the scum deaths so far.

50%

We all gotta pick up our game.

--

Okay I'm done now.

...?

Pretty sure Cheeky died vía Mala’s role

???

Alchemist21 tracked Cheeky to PGO BEF. Flavor has been targeting RCE the entire game. N1, Toogeloo stopped all kills. N2, Mala most likely BG’d RCE and N3, it was obviously successful.

Ok screw it. I didn’t want to claim like this but since people are still giving Benefit of the Doubt here...

I Tracked BEF N1 and saw he visited nobody. That’s how I knew the guilty was fake. I Tracked Cheeky N2, which you can see in that flavor hint, and she visited BEF which is why I speculated BEF having a PGO role.

He’s not backing down from his bullshit so I’m calling it out.

Please explain the bolded, Gamma.

[DrewVa]

@A50: Can you please edit in the roles for each of the flips in the OP? It helps a lot to just see what roles died when without having to go to the actual flips, especially when they're a mess of flavor that doesn't matter for figuring out what information people may have been trying to crumb without claiming.

Also: BEF, next time you use a cop gambit as a PGO to draw fire, claim ascetic at the same time. It'll keep people from getting themselves killed trying to verify you, and though it'll make it a bit harder to keep from being lynched, it'll keep you from killing a doctor accidentally. Also also also: When a tracker exposes themselves to get you lynched, don't try to scare people off the lynch; come clean, and either claim PGO and lose all your utility, but know that you're guaranteed to take out a scum slot unless they want you gamesolving all game long, or else claim something else that isn't cop, but is still threatening to scum.

Also, first thought right now is that BEF received Alonzo's N1 results, saw a guilty, claimed a guilty(to communicate the guilty to whoever the cop was), and that's basically it.

Which, coupled with the likelihood that Alonzo's initial vote was on his cop target means...

VOTE: Gamma

-Cerb

Bus driver point - if Alonzo tried to cop Gamma he hinted it as per here

If BEF got a Hebi result then it could have been busdrivered

If Gamma has any useful results he should share

So maybe BEF really did think he had a guilty on Hebi. So, Alonzo’s guilty was redirected to Hebi. So, that explains it. Then Clem/Chick team must also have a roleblocker, because he go a “no results” on us.

[DrewVa]

j/w but do SK and Mafia want to kill underdogs?

Just sort of speculating but if there's 0% chance Gamma is getting protected, and SK wants to kill mafia factions, then are we actually wasting a lynch by lynching caught scum?

I'm probably overthinking this, but I also literally just lynched scum Gamma yesterday. The problem here is that while I feel like Gamma here was definitely scum hunting and was legitimately trying to sort me, if Underdogs had confirmation this was multiball that doesn't guarantee he's town if Underdogs are legitimately trying to lynch Mafia... so not sure what to do with my read of Gamma atm, just know he feels very different than he did in my last game with him where he flipped scum.

Like we think there's a redirector and there's no reason to think there isn't Framer yet so it's not like a guilty is a full mod-confirmed guilty given this is a massively swingy closed setup. I'd rather lynch on play than mechanics and DGB is the better lynch on play.

So part of me still wants to just lynch DGB today personally but I don't think I can get Nancy on board with that idea atm so idk -DVa

[DrewVa]

I'm curious why this is a point to make right now though.

In a weird position where I believe profii but have doubts Gamma flips scum -DVa

[DrewVa]

I’ve seen town try and scum hunt around conf scum before and it went very wrong. We lynch Gamma.

Who did you cop, nights 1 and 2? I’m asking, because like DVa, I believe your guilty but I’m trying to figure out if there’s any chance you could have been redirected?

I think if BEF was redirected N1, then it probably means your N1 cop check is accurate. So if both N1 and N2 make sense, then your N3 is also probably correct and you weren’t redirected.

[DrewVa]

Did I mention that Gamma's ISO comes up not town according to a work-in-progress method I have for reading him? Giving full details would reduce the usability of the tell, but I can say there is something specific lacking from his game which has been present the past several times I've seen him as town.

Wisdom has accurately read him in 2 games as both scum and town. \_0_/

[DrewVa]

sure
I went FL N1 but got no result - hence I literally said I got no result in that post I quoted recently - that was the breadcrumb.
Then I went Cheeky but she died so I did not breadcrumb it at all for the sake of surviving
Then I went gamma based on some VCA I did overnight and got a guilty.

Note - my role says I can only catch scum, not any other wackos - so I went for FL on N1 because I thought it would give me credibility with FL and he would back me. I've been joking about it though for survival measures.
I went for Cheeky because she was derping and I went for Gamma based on his links to Chick as I quoted + he was quite happy on the 2 town lynches as I posted so it seemed like a fair choice.

my character is "Joe Bomowski"
I've never seen the film

@Nancy RTFT

So, his FL and Cheeky checks make sense, so unlikely Profil was redirected on N3.

[DrewVa]

How are the results phrased? I've seen several variations when it comes to results. Essentially, what is your character looking for?

But basically, the FL one said the computer was down so I got no result, I just interpreted that as a role block - I assume cheeky believed me or something.
The 2nd one told me the investigation led to organised crime and it actually said mafia for cheeky
then the Gamma one said someone had tipped off there was a group of kids called the underdogs and gamma was a member.

(sorry a50 If I'm not supposed to blab this but I am not c+v'ing!!!)

VOTE: profii
I doubt a cop role would get faction specific results

Why wouldn’t they and this OMGUS, based on this reasoning makes no sense in a multiball game.

[DrewVa]

Just checked Wikipedia. Joe Bornowski, is a police sergeant in the movie, “Stop or my Mom will Shoot”.

I believe Profil’s guilty on Gamma.

VOTE: Gamma

And Gamma’s reaction vote makes no sense, if he’s innocent.

[DrewVa]

Just checked Wikipedia. Joe Bornowski, is a police sergeant in the movie, “Stop or my Mom will Shoot”.

I believe Profil’s guilty on Gamma.

VOTE: Gamma

And Gamma’s reaction vote makes no sense, if he’s innocent.

How about the fact I doubt the guilty and think it’s scum faking it?

If he’s scum and faked this, we’re probably lynching him next but why would he fake it? What is the possible scum motivation in faking a guilty on you?

Everything about his role adds up, including his FL and Cheeky results. We were hesitant on voting because we thought the guilty may have been a redirect but his other checks makes sense.

I also didn’t understand why you thought him getting specific faction info. meant the results were fake?

I thought that was a strange reaction to a guilty. Why not say it was a redirect? I would have waited on my vote, had you said that, rather than the faction thing.

[DrewVa]

@Fortian, I finally went back through the ISO and re-read what y'all wrote about RR being scum.

I would like to make it very clear that Cerb's faith in me is very much misplaced and I should probably have been a normal human being and started off like every other single newbie instead of getting on my high horse and thinking I could handle that. So yeah.

Still agree with you on RR being scum though.

Isn’t Fortian townreading them now?

[DrewVa]

Don't worry Amzela, FL is probably scum and should die. Conditional PGO/Vig combination thing that they can't even predict sounds like a perfectly reasonable SK claim, and a slightly less reasonable groupscum claim. *shrug*

-Cerb

There were no kills N1 due to global doc and that’s when Profil visited him, so that hasn’t been disproved.

[DrewVa]

Vote: Gamma

Yeah, this reads super genuine here. Don't think proflis ever lying here and Gammas reaction is atrocious.

You'll understand our "RR is highly likely town sadly" thing if we die in the night, mechanically should be putting that slot well and truly to the side.

@Amzela

[DrewVa]

And finally...

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner

RCEnigma has left the game with a WIN!

He was...

Spoiler:

You are "Gerald" (from: Reach Me

2014

). The best way to describe you is .. you're one

meanie

guy. When you're on a mission, nothing else matters. Like; in your own words:

I would throw my mother under a bus, under four buses to complete a mission.

See what I meanie .. erm.. mean?

You are a

Self-Aligned

Active Compulsive Janitor Survivour

. As long as you're alive, no roles will be flipped upon being

NK'd

. (i.e. Flips will show as normal for the lynched).

You are basically a

Survivour

, but you win by staying alive until

the end of N3

. If you manage to do so you will leave the game a winner at the start of D4.

Sounds good?? PM me back with your role so I know you understand it and are up for the task. GOOD LUCK (meanie).

P.S. Just in case you need a fake claim at any point; you may claim "John Spartan" (from: Demolition Man

1993

). Your role should be a

Town Undertaker/Graveyard keeper

(shows as targeting the NK'd to Watchers and Trackers). "You're gonna regret this the rest of your life... both seconds of it."

As for N3, we had Two additional deaths; Alch & Alonzo.

Alchemist21 was...

Spoiler:

You are "Barney Ross" (from: The Expendables

2010

and follow ups). As a

Town Tracker

you are tasked with finding some baddies and exposing them before the whole town ends up in the graveyard.

Obviously this means you have the standard win con of the Town; which is to eliminate all evil to get your win. GOOD LUCK

"I got a feeling everyone else passed on this job."
"I didn't come after you, dipshit! I came for HER!"

Now just PM me back with your role so I know you understand it and are up for the task.

and...

Alonzo was...

Spoiler:

You are "Deke DaSilva" (from: Nighthawks

1981

). As a conservative street cop; your powers are limited and your investigation reports are not yours to announce.

In other words, you're an

Amnesiac Vanilla Cop

who's investigation results are received and handled by "someone else", so just do your duty and leave it for your superiors to decide what to do with the results.

Deke DaSilva

: Lieutenant? I just got these latest transfer orders from the Captain.

Lt. Munafo

: Yeah, don't sing me any operas. I'm not feeling well right now and I'm in a bad mood.

Deke DaSilva

: I'm not gonna sing any operas. I'm talking about these transfer orders. Come on, Munafo. I've been working Decoy for nine years and now I'm pulled and I'd like to know why.

Lt. Munafo

: Hey, don't start with me. It's Lieutenant. You don't know me well enough to call me Munafo. But I know you, DaSilva. The gung-ho Lone Ranger of the street crime unit. Well, you can forget about that because we've been asked to cooperate with a special federal/state unit, and we will. You and Fox have been assigned to an ATAC unit.

Obviously

you are aligned with the Town

and have the standard win con of eliminating all evil to get your win. GOOD LUCK.

Now PM me back with your role so I know you understand it and are up for the task.

Gamma, are you reading the same game as the rest of us? Nowhere does it say anything in the flips about a redirector.

[DrewVa]

thats really nonsense
profii already has plenty of town cred, he wouldnt risk losing it on a fake guilty
It makes zero sense for him to do this as scum
You were way better off arguing redirection or other things

+1

Redirection is a valid argument, accusing Profil of being scum, because he mentioned factions, is not.

[DrewVa]

he meant the bus driver prolly

These were the flips of the 4 found corpses


Nero Cain was ...

Spoiler:
You are "Lincoln Hawk" (from: Over the Top 1987). Although this town is crime infested you are more concerned about winning back your son and winning at the world arm wrestling championships. You're a trucker though, so that must count for something.

OK, you are a Bus Driver aligned with the Town. With some good skill and reads you can very much sway this game Town's way, or you can severly demolish all it's chances to eliminate this evil.

"What I do is I just try to take my hat and I turn it around, and it's like a switch that goes on. And when the switch goes on, I feel like another person, I feel, I don't know, I feel like a... like a truck. Like a machine."

"All I can say is I made a mistake. I know that. You know, sometimes that happens in life. We all make mistakes, but it won't happen again."

As always; you win when all threats to town have been eliminated. GOOD LUCK.

Now just PM me back with your role so I know you understand it and are up for the task.

Oh okay, so BEF was redirected from Hebi to someone else?

Well I guess, there could still plausibly be a redirector but yeah, I don’t think there’s any reason to doubt the guilty but with 2 scumteams, why wouldn’t Gamma think Profil would get told faction information?

[DrewVa]

bef didnt have an action nancy
He was pgo

No, Alonzo was amnesiac cop and based on what A50 told me, 1 player was deliberately chosen to receive his results and 2 backups, in the case of said player’s death.

[DrewVa]

Idk some thought vomit to try to sort the different categories of possible scum.

Townish
Varsoon
pinturicchio

The nullish category -- Nancy has reads on some of these
Tails
profii
Thor665
Fortian
Amzela

Wisdom Category
Wisdom -- He's pinged me a lot early game but I also follow a lot of his thought processes so idk about wagoning him rn

Potential group scum -- I think the cases on these people are more based on associations, it seems unlikely they are third party killers based on play, don't feel like they've playing toward solo endgames
Gamma Emerald
BuJaber
Reasonably Rational

Could be group scum, could be serial killers -- slots that are all suspicious independently
Flavor Leaf -- claimed vig-like role I think?, has acted very ??? for lot of the game, lot of sk wifom, but not sure if he's so open about his role if so
davesaz -- his comment about cheeky has me thinking; feel a little bit like he's specifically trying to hunt group scum while not really getting on anyone's radar
DrippingGoofball -- given the flips I'm finding jester less plausible

-DVa

I strongly townread Fortian and Profil. I think Wisdom is town. Why do you find jester less plausible? If Gamma flips red, I’m taking a closer look at Amzela.

[DrewVa]

yeah but you said bef was redirected

If he was the one to receive Alonzo’s results and received an actual guilty on someone, if Alonzo supposedly checked Hebi but because he never discussed it, it’s also possible, he made it up but if he didn’t, then there’s probably a 2nd roleblocker on Chick team.

[DrewVa]

again, vanilla non vanilla results
So no, bef didnt receive a guilty on hebi

I didn’t say she did. Possibly, BEF could theoretically have received a not vanilla result that was possibly bus driven by Nero?

[DrewVa]

youre wildly speculating nonsense as usual

You really should stop insulting me for things you know nothing about. I already told you. A50 told me, one player was deliberately picked to receive Alonzo’s results and that there were an additional 2 backups, if that player died.

You can PM A50, if you don’t believe me.
.

[DrewVa]

lol my reads are flawless this game /s

-dva

[DrewVa]

MSPD has announced

4 more violent deaths

have occurred in this game.

Reasonably Rational

were shot from a car that slowed down to fire upon them and quickly took off.

Reasonably Rational were ...

Spoiler:

You are "Raymond Tango" (from: Tango & Cash

1989

). You're a former police officer who has been framed and put behind bars, and all you want is to restore your honour by setting things straight.

You are a

Vanilla Townie

now though, so you won't be doing many stunts of those you hoped for. Instead, you are advised to use your brain, skills and good judgemnet to vote the mod off the streets.

"Your Honor, I have been a policeman for 12 years, and I think it's the best organization in the country. At times, I've been accused of being too aggressive at taking criminals off the streets. Well, if that's a sin, then I guess I'm guilty."

And in case this wasn't obvious; you win when all threats to Town have been eliminated. GOOD LUCK.

Now just PM me back with your role so I know you understand it and are up for the task.

Also

pinturicchio

was shot dead tonight for no apparent reason.

pintu was ...

Spoiler:

You are "Weaver" (from: AntZ

1998

). You're a common working ant with no special abilities. Just a

Vanilla Townie

.

However, you do have your vote and -more importantly- the gift to use it wisely. If you can help get rid of all the baddies in this town you will win with your fellow Townies.

"What are you bitching about? in case you haven't noticed, we ants are running the show. We're the Lords of the Earth."

And of course, you win when all threats to Town have been eliminated. GOOD LUCK.

Now just PM me back with your role so I know you are up for the task.

And a car explosion resulted in the death of

Varsoon

. It's unclear if the incident was a retaliatin act or a crime lords war over power and control.

Varsoon was ...

Spoiler:

You are "Johnny Kovak" (from: F.I.S.T.

1978

). From a Cleveland warehouse worker to president of the trucking industry union? You just had to be connected. You know what I mean?

You are the "leader". The

Godfather

of this Mafia family. You tell them what to do, when to do it, and how to do it. Your task isn't easy though as your family seems to be facing some competition, not to mention law enforcement personnel are on your tail.

As long as your alive you -and only you- submit the kills and decide who performs them.

, so please don't flake on your team.

"What are you? FIST!"

You win when you've eliminated all competition and have gained control over the town.

Now how about you PM me back with your role so I know you understand it and are up for the task.

P.S. Just in case you need a fake claim at any point; you may claim "Joe the Lion" (from: Zookeeper

2011

). I think

Vanilla Townie

should do, but feel free to improvise if you think it better at the time. "Stick to your cozy life because take it from me, you would never make it in the wild."

Finally,

Thor

's body was found in a dark alley with 2 shots to the back of his head.

Thor was ...

Spoiler:

You are probably gonna hate me for this, but you are "Ray Quick" (from: The Specialist

1994

). Lured by the irresistible temptation of Sharon Stone at her prime (she was only 36 then and just 2 years after she made Basic Instinct), you could not resist but to indulge her by bombing the mafia that had killed her family.

You are a

Self-Aligned

Bomber

, and your task is really simple. Suicide unto someone

during the daytime

of your choice. If your target flips Town you will lose and if they flip anti-town you will win. You lose if you die before you detonate though, so keep an open eye for scum tells and don't take too long.

"You like watching them die? You like taking them down? Now I'm taking you down. You're finished in the agency. You're going no higher. You're as dead as those people in the river. We both are."

Simple. Huh? Now PM me back with your role so I know you understand it and are up for the task.

P.S. Just in case you need a fake claim at any point; you may claim the same character. But say your role is

PGO

. This should keep most everybody away from you at night, unless you really have good reads (or you suck that nobody's buying your claim).

This means Thor has lost the game.

Holy shit! Varsoon was scum.

I’m assuming Thor bombed RR and not Pint.

[DrewVa]

tbh I shoulda known varsoon was scum when he agreed with me on dgb, that really reminded me of BoR, but there was too much other nonsense going on lol -dva

[DrewVa]

Lmao I’m alive

Yeah, that is amazing. Maybe there’s another doc in the setup?

So, who did you investigate last night?

[DrewVa]

you know nancy I just now got why you do this thing where the posts display top to bottom rather than bottom to top, it's a lot better when there's multiple people

[DrewVa]

I was assuming Varsoon was gonna flip underdog ha

And everyone thought Gamma was Mafia.

[DrewVa]

you know nancy I just now got why you do this thing where the posts display top to bottom rather than bottom to top, it's a lot better when there's multiple people

Yeah, I really like it. It saves a lot of time.

[DrewVa]

Are we doing the thing then?

VOTE: The Flavor to the Boon Leaf Skies -dva

[DrewVa]

Really? We didn’t need a cop result there - he was defending Chicka like woah

Yeah and Cheeky was hard bussing him - clearly non-consensual it seemed. Gamma didn’t look onboard with it.

[DrewVa]

tbf gamma probably wasn't on board with it lol -d

[DrewVa]

So 11 players left in the game? How many scums per team, 2 or 3, do you think? If 2, then is groupscum dead?

[DrewVa]

lol nancy groupscum isn't dead if profii is claiming a guilty -d

[DrewVa]

better fl is underdogs then, maybe mafia is dead
GF + RB vs 2goons+? -d

[DrewVa]

*betting

[DrewVa]

votecount

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Flavor Leaf (1):	DrewVa (4037),
Not voting (9):	Flavor Leaf,	BuJaber,	Tails,	davesaz,	profii,	Wisdom,	DrippingGoofball,	Fortian,	Amzela,

(expired on 2018-12-28 05:45:00) remain.

Spoiler: mobile-friendlier

Flavor Leaf (1):

DrewVa (4037),

Not voting (9):

Flavor Leaf, BuJaber, Tails, davesaz, profii, Wisdom, DrippingGoofball, Fortian, Amzela,

Without a guilty, we shouldn’t rush this. So us, Profil, Fortian, davesaz and Wisdom, probably all town. Null on Tails, Bujaber and Amzela. FL??? but he hard defended Gamma? DGB needs to die before LYLO.

[DrewVa]

better fl is underdogs then, maybe mafia is dead
GF + RB vs 2goons+? -d

Wouldn’t that be unbalanced though?

They should have equal numbers. There’s 2 dead mafia, Clem/Varsoon and 2 dead underdogs, Cheeky/Gamma.

[DrewVa]

I disagree, this is precisely the day we should rush

scum are afraid of a town protective on profii and anything we do other than following the guilty risks outing that protective

this is like fire and ice, or maybe assassin in the palace, where our wincon is likely the remaining serial killers trying to hit each other or whatever other anti-town nonsense is left out there -d

[DrewVa]

They should have equal numbers. There’s 2 dead mafia, Clem/Varsoon and 2 dead underdogs, Cheeky/Gamma.

if fl is goon, then 3 goons vs. GF + rb is balanced-ish
balanced for this madhouse anyway -d

[DrewVa]

Oooo here’s a game we should all play

As per yesterday you know my result tells me the alignment of my target (ie that Gamma was an underdog)

In the interest of getting some info today everyone should predict which team my result tells me FL is on and I’ll tell you all what I’ve got later

Okay, so, FL is scum, so not unvoting.

Underdog due to hard Gamma defense?

[DrewVa]

I disagree, this is precisely the day we should rush

scum are afraid of a town protective on profii and anything we do other than following the guilty risks outing that protective

this is like fire and ice, or maybe assassin in the palace, where our wincon is likely the remaining serial killers trying to hit each other or whatever other anti-town nonsense is left out there -d

But shouldn’t we find out first which groupscum, he is?

[DrewVa]

We should even be considering mass-claiming and trying to piece everything together at this point.

strongly disagree -d

[DrewVa]

They are literally called underdogs and have no power roles

The name is the clue I think - I’m assuming they are a team of goons and that’s why all their PMs say they are up against it

Ah, so maybe DVa is right then and mafia is dead. So after tonight, all groupscum is dead and just SKs. So, 2 non-scum 3Ps so far, RCE, Thor.

[DrewVa]

This is absolutely not a day or situation we're rushing, we're going to secure the victory, nail down a PoE and win this today.

We should even be considering mass-claiming and trying to piece everything together at this point.

All scum have fake claims, so what good would that do?

[DrewVa]

This is absolutely not a day or situation we're rushing, we're going to secure the victory, nail down a PoE and win this today.

We should even be considering mass-claiming and trying to piece everything together at this point.

All scum have fake claims, so what good would that do?

Mass claiming is a terrible idea and will only help scum out any possible existing PRs.

[DrewVa]

I don't think I can be bothered explaining how poor your grasp on optimal theory/play here is, I'll just wait for other people to turn up.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Scum have fake claims, what’s not to understand?

[DrewVa]

I don't think I can be bothered explaining how poor your grasp on optimal theory/play here is, I'll just wait for other people to turn up.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

there's perhaps 3 killing scum with 10 living players and today's lynch is already set

in a closed setup

you have some bombshell you can spill it but don't act like our understanding of the theory of this situation is flawed, mass claim here is not at all obviously superior to a rushed dayphase with minimal information for killing scum -d

[DrewVa]

I don't care if scum have fake claims or not, we're not clearing someone from setup speculation or things based on all of the claims or things like that. Mass-claiming just helps provide a wealth of information, allows us to try and piece together what's happened during these night phases; work out a bit better what we're probably still up against. Can read people based on how they claim / how their play fits their claim and things like that. But I'm going to let DV speak with you from hereon out, I'm done because I just can't be fucked anymore.

It helps scum know if and what any town PRs are and therefore - due to fake claims - it’s a horrible idea.

Do you seriously not think scum has rehearsed them by now? What possible info can we get vs. how much we give to scum?

[DrewVa]

profii what is the result
Im still assuming town or sk for fl

it's underdog, profii wouldn't be gloating if it was an inno -d

[DrewVa]

profii what is the result
Im still assuming town or sk for fl

Profil presumably has a guilty on FL and he can only get results on groupscum and the Underdogs are all goons, so most likely FL is an underdog and the last groupscum.

[DrewVa]

nancy youve mixed up flips

Clem and gamma are underdogs.
Cheeky and varsoon are mafia.

Oh okay, that makes a lot more sense.

[DrewVa]

why is tails probtown? -d

[DrewVa]

BuJaber is quite possibly with Clem/Gamma based on reading I did overnight FTR.

If Mafia are PRs and Underdogs are all goons, and if FL is the last Underdog, do you really think it makes any sense - setup wise for there to be a 3rd mafia in the game? And Bujaber was scumreading Chick, so why would you think there’s any associatives between them?

[DrewVa]

VOTE: bujaber

Profil presumably has a guilty on Flavor, so why are you voting Bujaber?

@Profil, can you please claim your guilty?

[DrewVa]

Are we doing the thing then?

VOTE: The Flavor to the Boon Leaf Skies -dva

Let me dance the merry dance first

I want to enjoy this

I was about to say why are you voting FL and considering a 2 man scum team

Oooo here’s a game we should all play

As per yesterday you know my result tells me the alignment of my target (ie that Gamma was an underdog)

In the interest of getting some info today everyone should predict which team my result tells me FL is on and I’ll tell you all what I’ve got later

Lol fake pedit - exactly I think everyone should do it before I spill beans

They are literally called underdogs and have no power roles

The name is the clue I think - I’m assuming they are a team of goons and that’s why all their PMs say they are up against it

@Wisdom

[DrewVa]

yeah i read those as "i have nothing but lets try to get info from what people predict"

sure

I went FL N1 but got no result

- hence I literally said I got no result in that post I quoted recently - that was the breadcrumb.
Then I went Cheeky but she died so I did not breadcrumb it at all for the sake of surviving
Then I went gamma based on some VCA I did overnight and got a guilty.

Note - my role says I can only catch scum, not any other wackos - so I went for FL on N1 because I thought it would give me credibility with FL and he would back me. I've been joking about it though for survival measures.
I went for Cheeky because she was derping and I went for Gamma based on his links to Chick as I quoted + he was quite happy on the 2 town lynches as I posted so it seemed like a fair choice.

my character is "Joe Bomowski"
I've never seen the film

Yeah, you’re right, so disregard everything I said about Bujaber then.