If Toogeloo’s role is fake. Normally, you’d be absolutely right about that. But don’t you think there’s some weird associatives with Clem’s self-hammering - to according to him, prevent Toogeloo from hammering and Chick’s Toogeloo defense? Either one alone, wouldn’t have made me think that. Do you think Clem just wanted to die anyway and tried to shade Toogeloo? I suppose that is also possible.In post 2555, pinturicchio wrote:Why would a scum self hammer to prevent his partner from hammering. That makes no sense
Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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Yeah true, that was definitely weird but it probably isn’t a fake role but maybe the flavour is fake? Is there any Stallone film involving actors as actual roles in it?In post 2560, profii wrote:The thing that bugs me about toogeloo is it wasn’t until 401 they said oh look actor is a real role
Potentially this could be scummy but I’m still kinda thinking this through -
I asked A50 what it meant by scum has a fake claim and he told me it was the extra character
He DID NOT tell me they also got the extra potential roles to claim as per that PM flip
So is it possible toogeloo faked his claim ASAP ?
Probably not - you’d surely research your gambit before committing to it in your first post
Idk - if my role PM said something weird the first thing I’d do is go to the wiki to know what I can do but it took 400 posts
Admittedly I tend not to check things other people say to let themselves dig holes but just seems weird to me
In post 2505, Almost50 wrote:Clemency was ...
Spoiler:
It's now Night 1. Deadline (expired on 2018-12-03 22:30:00)
A50 clearly gave a fake flavour and a choice of possible fake role options, to choose between. For some reason, I thought both claims would come from the same film, so we now know that isn’t the case.-
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Yeah, also why does scum!Clem draw attention to it? Why not just do it and say nothing?In post 2562, pinturicchio wrote:
If his claim was fake, letting him hammer would make much more sense than not letting him hammer. Unless Toog's role was "if you hammer one of your partners you die", which makes NO sense at all. Also, I don't think Chick's post was a defense, since there was a lot of consensus on Toog being town. I see that post much more like a "look at me I'm doing something", contributing nothing new to the game, than a defense.In post 2561, DrewVa wrote:
If Toogeloo’s role is fake. Normally, you’d be absolutely right about that. But don’t you think there’s some weird associatives with Clem’s self-hammering - to according to him, prevent Toogeloo from hammering and Chick’s Toogeloo defense? Either one alone, wouldn’t have made me think that. Do you think Clem just wanted to die anyway and tried to shade Toogeloo? I suppose that is also possible.In post 2555, pinturicchio wrote:Why would a scum self hammer to prevent his partner from hammering. That makes no sense
UNVOTE:
Anyway, I want to hear Toogeloo’s view on that. - the timing of the Clem self-hammer.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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Yeah but it might have just been just WIFOM and not have actually had anything specific to do with him. Since Toogeloo’s role, means he can’t vote except when hammering, I don’t really see why scum would consider him that much of a threat, to want to stop him.In post 2564, Wisdom wrote:
Why is the former scum indicative for toogelooIn post 2553, DrewVa wrote:P.edit. Both Clem’s self-hammer to presumably prevent Toogeloo from hammering, plus Chick’s townread of Toogeloo are pretty damning, when combined together.
VOTE: Toogeloo
If anything it looks like clem self hammered so as to not let toog confirm their role-
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Why couldn’t scum have bussed?
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What do you think of the recent Chick posts, I referenced? Both of her Mala defenses are weird or Chick could just be really bad at hedging?In post 2581, Reasonably Rational wrote:
Because it makes you ask that question. There is now the appearance that scum was concerned about Toog's role claim. Others already inferred it might be a hammer powered role of some kind instead of specifically (or only) what Toog claimed.In post 2555, pinturicchio wrote:Why would a scum self hammer to prevent his partner from hammering. That makes no sense
Then there's Chick's post that Cerb quoted which is all kinds of bad. It's one of two things:
1.) An intentional red herring from Chickadee
OR
2.) Failed WiFoM by Chickadee
Raw probabilities vastly favor #2.
Since we've already gotten one person literally chainsawing Toog and attacking the idea that Chick accidentally linked to a partner (despite my intentional withholding of our reasoning for now) ... I think I'll see how much more hole gets dug.
Suffice it to say that I'm pretty sure Toog is scum here. The reasoning is sound. Nancy picked up on it and just needs to be more confident.
~D
She both hardtown reads Toogeloo but doesn’t blame anyone for scumreading him, due to his “oh it exists” post. What do you make of that?-
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Remember liking these for town so far
Varsoon
Creature
RCEnigma
BrightEyedFish
pinturicchio
Need to dive
Reasonably Rational (Drixx & Cerb)
Fortian (DeasVail & Regfan)
hebichan
Nero Cain
Amzela
Malakitty
Toogeloo
TailsNot Charmander
DrippingGoofball
Thor665
CheekyTeeky
Not so town
Flavor Leaf -- Would such an honest fellow lie about being SK? I think not
Alonzo -- Alonzo is trying really hard to be cute and that's MY JOB
Alchemist21 -- Still think he's way too funny to be town here, as town in Dolphins he was Mr. Serious Alchemist
BuJaber -- Doesn't smell townie, probably mafia, I should really look for some associatives here maybe
Wisdom -- He's pinged me a few times but I also like a lot of his analysis so maybe we just follow the busses for a while
profii -- Need to reread this actually but don't remember him being townie
Gamma Emerald -- Made a few off posts and I don't like his read of Creature atm
davesaz -- Seems really passive so far
8 "not townreads"... that's probably too many. Need to decide if I look for town in my scumreads or bother looking for scum in my nullreads. Unfortunately my scumread reads are pretty wack right now so maybe I just see if any of my nulls are scummier than {FL/Alonzo/Alch/BJ} who are all "funny people" scumreads which I don't think is actually that useful of a metric now that I think about it. I'll see if I can't get to those suggested dives tonight Nancy
--DVa-
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But you obviously have some reads. Because you probably blocked a scum kill, right?In post 2597, Toogeloo wrote:
---In post 2537, DrewVa wrote:Eh, the Lightening Rod role in Overkill 1, kind of fucked scum. I seriously doubt A50 tries it again in this game. So, some other reason or could be protectives, that would make the most sense.
Twas me again! Not lightning rod this time, but slightly better.In post 1922, Toogeloo wrote:I'm feeling a lot of deja vu from the first game.
I'm still an Actor, so no votes other than the Hammer for me, but the other half of my role is that I'm also a Director (I couldn't find it on the wiki). As an Actor, I can only hammer vote or be mod killed, but as a Director, I get a 1 use Global Doctor ability, which I used last night.
Even the mod got a laugh out of it.
---
Don't expect much from me though since I probably won't get too vested in the game until smaller numbers due to my voting limitations. I'll be honest, I don't really have reads on anyone since I'm not putting a lot of effort into sorting people out at the moment.
Ta ta for now.-
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Well, if he has no reads, how does he figure out who to save?In post 2604, Creature wrote:Okay, I'm actually having doubts about the Global Doctor part-
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In post 2600, Creature wrote:lmao
Just realized mod used a survivor wincon on his sample town role PM
Yep, based both on this and Overkill 1, I’b be surprised if there are only 2 factions in this game.Spoiler: Sample Town Role PM
Hello Almost50
You are "Cosmo Carboni" (from: Paradise Alley 1978). You are a hustler and a con artist, who initially got his youngest brother into professional wrestling, but now feels guilty about it.
Since you have nothing but your wits, you are a Hider trying to "con" your way out of this swamp. In other words, you are a Self-Aligned Survivor. You win if you are still alive by the end of the game.
"Why should I walk around looking like a boiled rag when I can have a stylish set of duds for free?"
Now be a pal and PM me back with your role to confirm you understand it and are ready to play.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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There is a very simple solution to this - the exact same one I got shit for suggesting yesterday. Having you hammer today.In post 2616, Toogeloo wrote:
So you think I'm town, but still deserving of a vote? Ok. Honestly though, if people really want me dead, this is absolutely the best phase to do it since we lynched scum day 1 and I stopped all the kills Night 1. Think of it as a get out of paranoia jail free card. You'd probably be doing me a favor too.In post 2611, hebichan wrote:Go ahead and get modkilled then.
You claimed your only positive utility was your one shot full doctor.You are basically just a worse vt now.
VOTE: toog
But I am not going to modkill myself. That's just stupid. I'll ask mod, but every time I've seen modkills happen, the player modkilled can no longer win the game because they are turned into a neutral party.
But whatever you are, you really need to make some reads. That isn’t helping your case. What is your take on the 2 Chick posts I referenced? Since they both involve you, I assume you would have an opinion on that?-
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In post 2643, DrippingGoofball wrote:
Oh wait he voted ooopsIn post 2638, Toogeloo wrote:Actually, if I were to bow out now, I'd have done plenty to impact the game with my global protection last night, so I'm thinking it might be for the best.
Final thoughts before I go...
Nero seems town.
DrewVa seems town.
Wisdom seems town.
One or both of RR or Varsoon seems scummy.
Cerb's GF might be scum too from what I remember reading.
DGB and hebi are just dumb, but could be scum or town.
VOTE: Varsoon
You obviously have never played with Toogeloo before.In post 2644, DrippingGoofball wrote:Well I wasn't expecting that.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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That’s why I said he should confirm himself last night and I got shit for it. It probably wouldn’t have made a difference, since Clem prevented that from happening but we would have known, that at least the actor part of his role was real.In post 2651, Fortian wrote:Oh jesus christ, why the fuck would you ever vote or run up Toog here.
People are fucking dreadful.-
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In post 2689, DrippingGoofball wrote:
No, vengeful would be cool and pro-town.In post 2685, Wisdom wrote:More likely a vengeful or something
At first I thought it may be a joke but now, I really think DGB could be a jester.In post 2690, Wisdom wrote:so are you claiming antitown-
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Why did you encourage him to vote, if you believed he’d be modkilled?In post 2614, Reasonably Rational wrote:In post 2609, Toogeloo wrote:
You might have just gotten a town read out of me Nero! Considering how little effort I've put into the game, using meta to define my playstyle couldn't have possibly been there to win my affections, and it might actually be genuine concern for my well being .In post 2589, Nero Cain wrote:Having played with Toog b4 I think this lurky do nothing attitude more resembles his town play than his scum play. Of course, there is the possibility that could ACT like this as scum so *shrug* .
---
Masonry, or did you *hint-hint-wink-wink* them last night .In post 2601, RCEnigma wrote:Davesaz is town if you think I'm town.
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I'm not about to abate your paranoia. You do what you think is best.In post 2604, Creature wrote:Okay, I'm actually having doubts about the Global Doctor part
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No... no it's not. I will beIn post 2607, hebichan wrote:2. Is testable if toog votes right now.MODKILLEDif I vote and it's not the hammer. Nice try though.
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No promises, but I'll 'try' to be a bit more helpful, but here's hoping that last night's death reprieve was more beneficial in regards to results people were hoping for (other than callous murderers).So the real question is if you're town, and guaranteed to be the mislynch for today, why would you not make that vote so as to save your faction from spending a lynch on your slot?
-Cerb-
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That’s the part that makes no sense to me. Why would you ever push someone you townread to get themselves modkilled?In post 2681, Varsoon wrote:Biggest pings for me is
1. You being a lot more jovial and less critically serious
2. You pushing Toog the way you did to vote if he were town (to save his team a mislynch?!)3. You being really meta-aware and playing contrary to it purposefully and vocally.
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This post is so ironic now. I wasn’t certain of anything except the part of him saying that the only way he could vote w/o getting modkilled, was if he hammered and when people jumped on me for that, I figured I must have misunderstood that. I didn’t scumread him, so I was fine with him not confirming but had Clem not self-hammered, Toogeloo would have never self-voted today outside of a hammer.In post 2471, Reasonably Rational wrote:
If you didn't know the answer to those questions, how did you have such certainty that it was VERY IMPORTANT that the hammer be saved for Toog?In post 2469, DrewVa wrote:
I obviously need those questions answered first.In post 2466, Reasonably Rational wrote:
You're asking me questions. I'm not here to explain this to you. I'm here to figure out why/how you believed what you believed.In post 2465, DrewVa wrote:
He’s an actor, right? So, hammering doesn’t confirm like with priest?In post 2463, Reasonably Rational wrote:
How do you arrive at that conclusion? Seriously. Tell me what you thought Toog's role was, and what line of reasoning led you to that conclusion.In post 2460, DrewVa wrote:
Well, I just thought hammering would confirm him. \_0_/In post 2455, Gamma Emerald wrote:
How does that confirm him though? That just means he can cast the hammer vote, not that he can’t cast any other votes.In post 2451, DrewVa wrote:
He doesn’t, so long as he’s the hammer, if I’m understanding his role correctly.In post 2448, Gamma Emerald wrote:How do you verify Toog without him getting modkilled
I suppose it’s fine for now but whenever we can confirm a slot, it’s always a good thing, no?
-Cerb
-Cerb
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In post 2614, Reasonably Rational wrote:
So the real question is if you're town, and guaranteed to be the mislynch for today, why would you not make that vote so as to save your faction from spending a lynch on your slot?In post 2609, Toogeloo wrote:
You might have just gotten a town read out of me Nero! Considering how little effort I've put into the game, using meta to define my playstyle couldn't have possibly been there to win my affections, and it might actually be genuine concern for my well being .In post 2589, Nero Cain wrote:Having played with Toog b4 I think this lurky do nothing attitude more resembles his town play than his scum play. Of course, there is the possibility that could ACT like this as scum so *shrug* .
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Masonry, or did you *hint-hint-wink-wink* them last night .In post 2601, RCEnigma wrote:Davesaz is town if you think I'm town.
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I'm not about to abate your paranoia. You do what you think is best.In post 2604, Creature wrote:Okay, I'm actually having doubts about the Global Doctor part
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No... no it's not. I will beIn post 2607, hebichan wrote:2. Is testable if toog votes right now.MODKILLEDif I vote and it's not the hammer. Nice try though.
---
No promises, but I'll 'try' to be a bit more helpful, but here's hoping that last night's death reprieve was more beneficial in regards to results people were hoping for (other than callous murderers).
-Cerb
But then why didn’t you just back me on him hammering today? The previous posts mentions nothing about him hammering, just voting.In post 2656, Reasonably Rational wrote:
Indeed.In post 2654, davesaz wrote:Kinda wondering what's actually going to go down tbh.
Like, I just wanted the idea to be in his head so he'd go ask about it, and then if town and we got to like L-1 he could vote, get himself killed, and we'd have all the interactions to look over after getting his flip, and still have a lynch to use today.
This sequence is just ???? to me.
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So, a global doc is not extremely different from a Lightening Rod. Like what are the odds of the same player getting such a comparible weird role, twice back to back?In post 2707, Wisdom wrote:you do know a global doc was used
For all we know there could be lots of deaths-
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Is this a lolcat type post?In post 2660, Reasonably Rational wrote:(This is the silence of drixx and I furiously discussing where the fuck we went wrong)
-Cerb
This reads to me, like you’ve given up?-
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In post 2744, pinturicchio wrote:Can we lynch Nero now that y'all fucked up? For real, not blaming anyone in particular because of the pandas' extintion, but get your shit together for fucks sakeIn post 2638, Toogeloo wrote:Actually, if I were to bow out now, I'd have done plenty to impact the game with my global protection last night, so I'm thinking it might be for the best.
Final thoughts before I go...
Nero seems town.
DrewVa seems town.
Wisdom seems town.
One or both of RR or Varsoon seems scummy.
Cerb's GF might be scum too from what I remember reading.
DGB and hebi are just dumb, but could be scum or town.
VOTE: Varsoon-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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Toogeloo read me correctly in Overkill 1 and here. I agree with many of those reads, he posted.In post 2748, Fortian wrote:@Pint - I don't think DGBs play here makes sense as scum, let alone some strong scum PR, her play here guatentees that she never endsgames, particularly in a power role heavy and kill heavy game. She's not scum, she'll be dealt with at night at some point for sure, end of.
Now talk to me about Nero, I've got a relatively strong town read on him here, partially meta based, the rest on him coming across as town who generally has no real idea what's going on, feel like his changes of opinion and thoughts on things fit with replacing in and trying to analyse a lot of information (albeit, poorly done). I think it's rather difficult for scum to sort of fake that sort of play. So what am I missing here? Convince me that I'm misreading him here. Also talk to me about your townish leans on RR and BFE since I think that's where we most likely find scum at the moment.-
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Well, I really can’t trust the reads of someone who is reading me incorrectly and 2 people who are, disagree with you on Nero.In post 2752, pinturicchio wrote:
I'm not trusting the reads of someone who explicitly said, and many times that was not paying attention to the game because of the role he had.In post 2749, DrewVa wrote:In post 2744, pinturicchio wrote:Can we lynch Nero now that y'all fucked up? For real, not blaming anyone in particular because of the pandas' extintion, but get your shit together for fucks sakeIn post 2638, Toogeloo wrote:Actually, if I were to bow out now, I'd have done plenty to impact the game with my global protection last night, so I'm thinking it might be for the best.
Final thoughts before I go...
Nero seems town.
DrewVa seems town.
Wisdom seems town.
One or both of RR or Varsoon seems scummy.
Cerb's GF might be scum too from what I remember reading.
DGB and hebi are just dumb, but could be scum or town.
VOTE: Varsoon
Fortian has the same read on Nero and me as Toog did and you can’t say that they were also not paying attention, now can you?-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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First off, check whether DVa or me is posting. Our reads aren’t identical. Also, what you’re saying is incorrect. I think Thor isn’t mistaken about some of your posts this game, being kind of hedgey - definitely when compared with Overkill 1. Anyway, I’m null on you rn.In post 2776, BuJaber wrote:@Nancy - it is amazing that throughout the whole game and everytime I mentioned you favorably or mentioned other people you townread me. When I start to say that IF IF my analysis of your character is wrong, then I would be scumreading you you switch yiur read on me.
As for Thor I think my reads must be pretty good and he is intentionally being thick so I flip out and replace out in frustration (as I've done in the past when people misunderstand my arguments repeatedly) and then because nobody listens to dead/replaced slots usually, my reads will be forgotten and/or my slot would be lynched for a the rep out, because nobody remembers the game I repped out as frustrated town, only the one where I repped out as misunderstood scum.-
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This is obvtown Cheeky here. Doubling down on my already strong townread on her.In post 2852, CheekyTeeky wrote:
Up to this point in her ISOIn post 726, Chickadee wrote:I skipped the last 10 pages.
From skimming though, I'm thinking Creature is scum. I vaguely remember Tails (I think) saying Creature was in town range. Please clarify.
Drew
Tails
Creature
Unlikely svs
Flavorleaf maybe.
Soft defense of Gamma?In post 786, Chickadee wrote:Overkill 1 was multi ball, I really don't think there's any reason to think this game wouldn't be. I think all of the language thus far would conclude so.
@Amz
Pocketing/buddying (Get in my pockets, listen to me. My pockets are warm and cozy)
Multiball = multiple non town factions
Singleball = one non town faction
Wisdom no.
Fortian no.
RR maybe?
RCE no.In post 1311, Chickadee wrote:CREATURE PLS STOP
So join me in voting him?In post 1298, profii wrote:I feel like Creature still hasnt done anything
Profii unlikely.
Varsoon unlikely.
Nero unlikely?In post 1794, Clemency wrote:oh nero, i've played with you once
my first game ever
you hated my guts throughout the whole thing
I feel like this is a really weird thing to say to RR and even weirder that there was no response. Maybe? Maybe not? You all should just vote Gamma tbh there's nothing much here.
Wagons next.-
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No, can you link or post it? That would really help a lot.In post 2873, Tails wrote:-
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Tbf to Gamma, overly explaining anything is totally NAI for him. No one should ever scumread him for that, because that would be a mistake. And I definitely agree with what he said here. The only explanations, you should leave to post-game, is either anything that can hurt the integrity of a game or your wincon. A PR role, for example but not ever anything germane to the actual gamestate.In post 2881, Tails wrote:
Do you disagree with what Gamma said here?In post 2879, CheekyTeeky wrote:
This seems like an opportunistic vote. Overly explained.In post 1231, Gamma Emerald wrote:I call BS. There’s a multitude of reasons why a post-game explanation is bad
VOTE: Majiffy
If you’re making that type of statement you’d probably have already done analysis to support it. Since you haven’t that means it’s a crock of shit.-
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In post 2878, Tails wrote:In post 1191, Majiffy wrote:Chickadee is probably flipping scum or 3P here butBuJ remains the ideal lynch today.
However, Clem said that when he knew he was being lynched. But why wouldn’t scum!Nero hop on the Clem wagon, for towncred? Scum generally don’t like to be on town wagons but they usually don’t mind bussing - especially when the lynch is inevitable. However, since - if the sample role PM is any indication - multiball may possibly affect this.In post 2276, Clemency wrote:i'll have to re-read to back up my claims but:
creature is town 100% money back guarantee
DrewVa feels off to me
i still don't see why bujaber is being considered a lynch this game
nero cain is scumleanish-
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In post 2647, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2611, hebichan wrote:
Go ahead and get modkilled then.
You claimed your only positive utility was your one shot full doctor. You are basically just a worse vt now.
VOTE: toog
EWWWWWWW
why are you trying to get someone to lose the game?
Why Cheeky?This is 100% a scumclaim post.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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I’ve seen him do that numerous times as town, so I don’t see how that’s necessarily AI?In post 2887, CheekyTeeky wrote:
I disagree.In post 2882, DrewVa wrote:Tbf to Gamma, overly explaining anything is totally NAI for him. No one should ever scumread him for that, because that would be a mistake.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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What makes RR stand out, is because he seemed to townread Toogeloo and was pushing him to get himself modkilled, where as Hebi and DGB were scumreading him att.In post 2898, profii wrote:
I read the flip as multiball (major crime forces) and serial killer(s) (Professional killers)the flip wrote:You still are a member of a group of kids forming a street gang, but are generally considered to be the Underdogs of this crime-infested "warzone" town. You do everything together, which should make things easier but at the same time you have to face some serious new problems going against major crime forces, professional killers, and law enforcement officers alike.
So there is every chance that one of the players encouraging Toogeloo to hara-kiri is just a serial killer - they can appear like they are scum hunting, because that is a threat to their win con and makes them look townie, whilst at the same time just simply trying to remove people out the game.
I've definitely spotted serial killers because they just wantanyoneto die, rather than therightperson... I need to look again but that might be happening here.
In post 2614, Reasonably Rational wrote:In post 2609, Toogeloo wrote:
You might have just gotten a town read out of me Nero! Considering how little effort I've put into the game, using meta to define my playstyle couldn't have possibly been there to win my affections, and it might actually be genuine concern for my well being .In post 2589, Nero Cain wrote:Having played with Toog b4 I think this lurky do nothing attitude more resembles his town play than his scum play. Of course, there is the possibility that could ACT like this as scum so *shrug* .
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Masonry, or did you *hint-hint-wink-wink* them last night .In post 2601, RCEnigma wrote:Davesaz is town if you think I'm town.
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I'm not about to abate your paranoia. You do what you think is best.In post 2604, Creature wrote:Okay, I'm actually having doubts about the Global Doctor part
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No... no it's not. I will beIn post 2607, hebichan wrote:2. Is testable if toog votes right now.MODKILLEDif I vote and it's not the hammer. Nice try though.
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No promises, but I'll 'try' to be a bit more helpful, but here's hoping that last night's death reprieve was more beneficial in regards to results people were hoping for (other than callous murderers).So the real question is if you're town, and guaranteed to be the mislynch for today, why would you not make that vote so as to save your faction from spending a lynch on your slot?
-Cerb-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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You’re correct. You said to Toogeloo, “if you’re town” here, or words to that effect. However, encouraging someone to prove they’re town by voting - to spare town a lynch or words to that effect - believing that such action will lead to their being modkilled - looks really bad and while your after the fact explanation - that being Toogeloo’s modkill reads townie, there is no way to determine if it is just spin, becauseIn post 2910, Reasonably Rational wrote:DrewVa:How can you read my posts at the start of the day and conclude I was townreading Toog?
Majiffy tmi point by Tails is valid. Nero hasn't done a whole lot to make me think differently.
Bujaber wagon was senseless, but being the counter to scum is meaningless in multiball. We can say there's a good chance he's not on the same team as clem, bu that's it, and even that's weak given that in multiball there would be diffusion of scum force pushing for/against certain wagon, so how hard it was to get the hammer on a scum slot means less.
Whoever mentioned the chickadee post to me:Ignored because it didn't have any content and was....well, basically a post I'd expect her to make regardless of alignment given our past interactions out of game.
-Cerbyou didn’t say it until after he had been already modkilled.
I recall that Drixx had earlier advised me, earlier on D1 to get our slot NK’d if we were town. The obvious difference between the two, is that we have 0 control over that but you had every reason to believe that Toogeloo could be modkilled by voting anything other than the hammer and yet, you still pushed him to vote. And I will stress again, you never - until after the fact - specified you meant hammer.
Another thing that is pinging me about you, is that at the EOD 1, you jumped on me for suggesting Toogeloo confirm his role by hammering by accusing me of somehow being too confident on this but today, you said that I lacked the confidence to push for a Toogeloo lynch. That seemed like a contradiction to me. If you view me as a player, who lacks confidence in their reads, than your EOD 1 jumping on me for advocating Toogeloo hammer, seems disingenuous.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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In post 2471, Reasonably Rational wrote:
If you didn't know the answer to those questions,In post 2469, DrewVa wrote:
I obviously need those questions answered first.In post 2466, Reasonably Rational wrote:
You're asking me questions. I'm not here to explain this to you. I'm here to figure out why/how you believed what you believed.In post 2465, DrewVa wrote:
He’s an actor, right? So, hammering doesn’t confirm like with priest?In post 2463, Reasonably Rational wrote:
How do you arrive at that conclusion? Seriously. Tell me what you thought Toog's role was, and what line of reasoning led you to that conclusion.In post 2460, DrewVa wrote:
Well, I just thought hammering would confirm him. \_0_/In post 2455, Gamma Emerald wrote:
How does that confirm him though? That just means he can cast the hammer vote, not that he can’t cast any other votes.In post 2451, DrewVa wrote:
He doesn’t, so long as he’s the hammer, if I’m understanding his role correctly.In post 2448, Gamma Emerald wrote:How do you verify Toog without him getting modkilled
I suppose it’s fine for now but whenever we can confirm a slot, it’s always a good thing, no?
-Cerb
-Cerbhow did you have such certainty that it was VERY IMPORTANT that the hammer be saved for Toog?
-Cerb
Re: the bolded. So,which is it? Am I over or underconfident with my reads?In post 2581, Reasonably Rational wrote:
Because it makes you ask that question. There is now the appearance that scum was concerned about Toog's role claim. Others already inferred it might be a hammer powered role of some kind instead of specifically (or only) what Toog claimed.In post 2555, pinturicchio wrote:Why would a scum self hammer to prevent his partner from hammering. That makes no sense
Then there's Chick's post that Cerb quoted which is all kinds of bad. It's one of two things:
1.) An intentional red herring from Chickadee
OR
2.) Failed WiFoM by Chickadee
Raw probabilities vastly favor #2.
Since we've already gotten one person literally chainsawing Toog and attacking the idea that Chick accidentally linked to a partner (despite my intentional withholding of our reasoning for now) ... I think I'll see how much more hole gets dug.
Suffice it to say that I'm pretty sure Toog is scum here. The reasoning is sound.Nancy picked up on it and just needs to be more confident.
~D-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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In post 2927, Nero Cain wrote:
I've actually been trying to eat less sodium.In post 2906, profii wrote:I feel like nero is more salty / fighty when he's scum-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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80%?In post 2933, DrippingGoofball wrote:
Right? You seem to know I'm town but you want to lynch me as a top priority. That's the spirit, more people should do like you.In post 2929, BuJaber wrote:I want to lynch DGB today. Worst case is she's a veng that's doing nothing while alive. Because even if she isn't scum like I suspect she hasn't done anything pro-town the whole game.
VOTE: DrippingGoofball .. epic name.. can't believe I haven't noticed you in a whole year that I've been here.
For posterity, just so no one says I've done nothing in the game, I give you this hot tip for later: 80% of the scum is on the Clemency wagon, because there's nothing like multiball to make the scum anxious to put someone in the noose, because they can claim towncred if the wagon is on a buddy, or even better... if the wagon turns up to be a scum from the other team.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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Why is lynching 3Ps more ideal than lynching mafia? I just want to lynch scum.In post 2940, Varsoon wrote:Or, ideally, third paRRty-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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@Cerb (I had to make a separate post because they’re were too many quotes in it).
Okay I realize that this was by 2 different heads and you were referencing different things. That said however, I think my question is still valid. In what world does it make a lick of sense for me to be too certain in scenario A but be too underconfident in situation B?
My point obviously being, that I perceive a clear difference on your slot’s temperament read on me and I have trouble seeing both as genuine. I’m leaning the latter read, is how your slot honestly views my temperament. Of course, the different heads saying these things might also account for it but I have trouble believing you really see me as a confident player, because you are well aware of my frustrating tendency to derp and usually don’t have strong scumreads in early game. You might not be aware of the latter though, because you have only played with me as pretty much clueless town and scum before. Undertale is town!me, when I’m not really sure wtf is happening in the game, because I didn’t read the first 100 pages. I typically am far more confident when I actually do have my head in a game. That is NAI for me btw. I have been frozen as both town and scum.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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I have never played with either scum!RR or scum!Cerb myself but Nico was very pissed at RR for apparently fooling her in a game they won as scum. Take that for what it’s worth.In post 2953, profii wrote:So looking at what Cerb is saying about trying to coach Toog into using his role wisely - I think it looks legit.
I think RR saying that was the objective of what he was doing and it was sincere so that's a consideration for me...
Now, I've not played much (if any? IDK) multiball on here before so like the point that !otherscum! team will likely been on Clemency wagon was like an adjustment in my thinking (I'm slow ok)
But that makes me reconsider the RR and Toog episode? I guess so because now we know Toog is town, that means !scum and !otherscum would have flocked to the wagon - I think this means that if RR was scum he'd have to be like "Guys wait and see who rushes this wagon to find the other team" - I think that would be tough to do without dropping your own team in it... so not really a scum lean on RR.
But
we have the serial killer potential aspect in this game too I think. The bit that you could probably argue is that RR was using Toog to serve his own purpose - obviously a SK can scum hunt like the rest of us and wants to remove all of us so helping a town is no skin off their nose - now the bit I think I have to consider is RR coached Toog into getting associatives going (this benefits all) but ALSO voted for Toog.
now this can be explained away as "yeah I wanted to coach him and demonstrate/accelerate the lesson" but it can also be explained as "I want to remove players by applying pressure/mind games"
It comes down to how devious you consider cerb to be I think - SK lean for me.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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Well, in Overkill 1. I almost posted Undertale 1 . In Overkill 1, 3Ps weren’t problematic for town, only SKs, so I’m assuming you think RR are SK, because there are probably non-threatening 3Ps in this game, who we don’t need to bother with until we get closer to LYLO. That’s why some of Bujaber’s early posts are not sitting right with me, because of his strange SK defense. Lynching mafia isn’t more optimal than lynching SKs. Any NKs other than vigkills are bad for town.In post 2954, Varsoon wrote:
Removes extra kills from the game, which are more likely to land on town than scum by ratio alone.In post 2949, DrewVa wrote:
Why is lynching 3Ps more ideal than lynching mafia? I just want to lynch scum.In post 2940, Varsoon wrote:Or, ideally, third paRRty
The only way we get anything out of having third party around is if we leash them, but SaGa frontier is proof of the dangers of doing that
Furthermore, I am fairly certain that if RR is third party, they're also bulletproof.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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Can you link that game?In post 2962, Reasonably Rational wrote:Varsoon is drawing parallels between my play here and my play as a malevolent 3p/sk varient in what I view as the most surprising 3p win on this site to justify pushing me over other individuals.
-Cerb-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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Robin. Nico Robin aka Yume.In post 2963, profii wrote:Who is Nico-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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I will probably have a better read on you once I check out that game. How can Cerb reason on what he “didn’t say”? Cerb is harder to read than you, tone-wise. It’s kind of weird to me but when you pushed me - as much as I hated it, it read townie to me, when Cerb did it, I got scum vibes. \_0_/In post 2966, Reasonably Rational wrote:Some thoughts:
1.) I was the one who concluded that Toog was probably scum with Chick due to the post Cerb quoted where Chick gave a really fence sitty wishy washy "read" on Toog, which also was contradicted by other close posts. That kind of spew is (the vast majority of times) generally indicative of scum trying to WiFoM and screwing up and connecting themselves to a partner. If that post was made intentionally, then Chick was on top of it at least for that. It was the first thing I talked to Cerb about after the flip.
2.) Exploiting mechanics is kind of one of our signatures. Cerb behaving exactly as Cerb behaves shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. His reasoning for what he said and what hedidn'tsay is spot on.
3.) Varsoon is really weirding me out. So far as I know, the role that won SaGa (incorrectly, since Albert B. Rampage had a killing ability) is unique. It didn't come from somewhere else and hasn't been replicated since. So ... what rationale is there to suppose we have a similar role?
@Nancy - You saw the same thing I did in regards to how Clemency acted in relation to Toog's claim. From the flip we know that Toog was more than just a hammer only role (which had to be modkilled if voted other than hammer or else the VC would "confirm" some part of the claim). Scum frequently fear that the unknown have a "worst case" ability. See Varsoon and KC in the game I referenced earlier. They were convinced I was a bomb. Without any reasoning. Similarly, it appeared that either scum wanted us to believe they were afraid of Toog (what I assumed was the case) or else really were (seems the case with updated info). That's what I said you needed to be more confidant about. You were on to that.
@Toog - Really well played. Would have been better to do that at L-2 or something but you got super high EV out of that role either way. Sorry I was wrong.
~D-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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Okay thanks. I’m legit surprised at this because of what happened in BoR, which you weren’t even in.In post 2979, Reasonably Rational wrote:Okay okay.
I'm properly paying attention right now.
I would appreciate succinctly phrased justifications for Gamma and Nero, preferably from the progenitors of the wagons.
Thanks.
-Cerb
pedit: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=66230 I was cool cucumbers, a hydra with myself and wgeurts.
pedit x2: WHO I DIDN'T REALIZE WAS YUME UNTIL RECENTLY, SOMEHOW.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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When did I say I wasn’t townreading you? Did you forget where I disagreed with Pint and referenced Toogeloo’s and Fortian’s reads townreading both of us?In post 2983, Nero Cain wrote:Nancy not hard town reading me is I don't think town Nancy doesn't ever hard town read townNero-
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Boundaries of Reality. Nico yolo desperado’d obvtown Drixx, just to get out of the game and Drixx said in that dead thread that it was for revenge. Is that right, Drixx?In post 2984, Reasonably Rational wrote:
Surprised at what exactly? What happened in BoR(which is an acronym for what?)In post 2982, DrewVa wrote:
Okay thanks. I’m legit surprised at this because of what happened in BoR, which you weren’t even in.In post 2979, Reasonably Rational wrote:Okay okay.
I'm properly paying attention right now.
I would appreciate succinctly phrased justifications for Gamma and Nero, preferably from the progenitors of the wagons.
Thanks.
-Cerb
pedit: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=66230 I was cool cucumbers, a hydra with myself and wgeurts.
pedit x2: WHO I DIDN'T REALIZE WAS YUME UNTIL RECENTLY, SOMEHOW.
-Cerb-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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I will do what I can. Several people hardtown read you, not just me: dear departed Toogeloo, Fortian, Varsoon and probably others. Unfortunately Majiffy was kind of scummy but anyone who thinks you’re scum here, just needs to ISO you in Necromancer to tell that you’re obvtown here.In post 2991, Nero Cain wrote:
I know you are townreading me but there was a post that I felt was a little bit of a hedge. I need you to defend me hard. Don't let that piece of hot garbage mislynch me again.In post 2988, DrewVa wrote:
When did I say I wasn’t townreading you? Did you forget where I disagreed with Pint and referenced Toogeloo’s and Fortian’s reads townreading both of us?In post 2983, Nero Cain wrote:Nancy not hard town reading me is I don't think town Nancy doesn't ever hard town read townNero-
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Why? We have to spend the day speculating on someone else’s. He could have put a rest to the speculation by hammering as opposed to feeling pushed to get himself modkilled.:/In post 2969, RCEnigma wrote:I do think it was good that Toog took the initiative and voted to confirm early instead of withholding his vote so we wouldn't spend the bulk of the day speculating on his alignment.-
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It would have confirm the actor portion of his role.In post 2994, Nero Cain wrote:TBF, Toog hammering doesn't exactly confirm him though.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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I’m guessing Wisdom? He was deathtunnelling Nero in CoH.In post 3007, Tails wrote:In post 2991, Nero Cain wrote:Don't let that piece of hot garbage mislynch me again.
Who is this in reference to?
I didn’t like Majiffy and I wasn’t thrilled with Nero’s entrance but his posting since then has seemed townie. \_0_/-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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What? This is a really weird post.
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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In post 2997, Varsoon wrote:My memory is a bad one
How am I a “victim of DGB’s mind control”? So, you’re saying that hypothetically, if we had a really strong SK read on someone, we should just ignore it and let them kill town, cuz that makes so much sense.In post 2998, BuJaber wrote:
Another victim of DGB's mind control.In post 2948, DrewVa wrote:P.edit. I sense a possible trap with voting this wagon. If DGB isn’t jester, she could maybe be a vengeful or,supersaint possibly? Any rate, I don’t see why scum does this and I’m staying tf clear.
Wrong. SK's pose a threat to mafia. Particularly in the early game where shooting is less accurate and both sides want to reduce shots that can hit them.In post 2961, DrewVa wrote:
Well, in Overkill 1. I almost posted Undertale 1 . In Overkill 1, 3Ps weren’t problematic for town, only SKs, so I’m assuming you think RR are SK, because there are probably non-threatening 3Ps in this game, who we don’t need to bother with until we get closer to LYLO. That’s why some of Bujaber’s early posts are not sitting right with me, because of his strange SK defense. Lynching mafia isn’t more optimal than lynching SKs. Any NKs other than vigkills are bad for town.In post 2954, Varsoon wrote:
Removes extra kills from the game, which are more likely to land on town than scum by ratio alone.In post 2949, DrewVa wrote:
Why is lynching 3Ps more ideal than lynching mafia? I just want to lynch scum.In post 2940, Varsoon wrote:Or, ideally, third paRRty
The only way we get anything out of having third party around is if we leash them, but SaGa frontier is proof of the dangers of doing that
Furthermore, I am fairly certain that if RR is third party, they're also bulletproof.
I was SK in Overkill 1 and I didn’t intentionally kill scum. We wrongly townread Thor. That’s right as SK, I only wanted to go after town early on but okay, SKs are great for town.
Did it ever occur to you, that SKs are also good for Mafia early on, because they increase the overall scum KP?
It’s posts like this one, why I don’t townread you here.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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Well, in the past, his scumplay was pretty atrocious but it could have improved since. Well, Wisdom prefers Gamma but isn’t opposed to a Nero lynch either but you’re right, that overreaction doesn’t really make a lot of sense, since Wisdom is pushing Gamma.In post 3026, Tails wrote:@Drew: Wisdom isn't pushing Nero. And I'm not sure why this would be outside of the range of scum Nero.-
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The point is that we’re spending the day speculating on another slot and we just lost a town - who prevented all of the freaking NKs last night and you’re so blase about it. It wasn’t a good thing for him to be pushed to modkill himself and I don’t understand how anyone thinks this, post-flip.In post 3000, RCEnigma wrote:
Hammering still doesn't confirm his role, it just means he has fingers. I think he does but won't assume.In post 2993, DrewVa wrote:
Why? We have to spend the day speculating on someone else’s. He could have put a rest to the speculation by hammering as opposed to feeling pushed to get himself modkilled.:/In post 2969, RCEnigma wrote:I do think it was good that Toog took the initiative and voted to confirm early instead of withholding his vote so we wouldn't spend the bulk of the day speculating on his alignment.-
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I didn’t either. It was like, I would somehow be lockscum, if he flipped town. He was bleeding obvtown in CoH -I mean it was blatantly obvious in that game, it’s less so here. Watch, he will probably try to wagon me for these posts because anything other than me 100% townlocking him here, is apparently a scum claim.In post 3031, Tails wrote:I didn't really like that appeal to you.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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My favourite new word, I think.In post 3017, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Go to hell youIn post 3016, RCEnigma wrote:My new favorite interaction this game.scaudenfreudianfreak.-
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DrewVa Mafia Scum
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His post re Toogeloo’s flip also pinged me. His getting himself modkilled was not a good thing. As town, you should feel bad when a townie flips. It’s never a good thing.In post 3024, Gamma Emerald wrote:@cheeky Maybe I’m a little aggressive because you seem to hate me now?
As for why not vote elsewhere I have some considerations but I want to look things over before doing so. I don’t really have a read on RCE rn but he’s scum irl for getting a kick out of this.
@Drewva ok cool, anything more you’d like to say?