A warlock, a werewolf, and a vampire... [Game Over]

[Lady 6]

I don't understand the case for G9!town

which part

The "towntell"

I guess it mostly hinges on whether you believe G9 would've been corrected on his misunderstanding of the setup by his teammates. Or if he would've read the setup closer as scum.

For me, I think it probably does a lot more than other people might because it helps me understand where he's coming from a lot better.

[Lady 6]

maybe I got over excited

[Lady 6]

I don't understand the case for G9!town

which part

The "towntell"

I guess it mostly hinges on whether you believe G9 would've been corrected on his misunderstanding of the setup by his teammates. Or if he would've read the setup closer as scum.

For me, I think it probably does a lot more than other people might because it helps me understand where he's coming from a lot better.

This doesn't hold water for me because it could easily just be scum who didn't read the setup and his teammates were too lazy to correct him or just missed his mistake

okay maybe it's not a town slip in that it 100% confirms him as town

but I would argue it's more likely for town to not read the setup / know the setup as well than scum. I mean that was basically the whole argument behind the G1 "town slip"

[Lady 6]

I feel like we are just bashing on Seal right now given she corrected her self and said she got excited lol.

I think I still am not scum reading G9 here anymore, though I've reneged on the initial force of my read change.

It would be helpful if some people who are scum reading G9 resummarized what their issues are?

[Lady 6]

I just want a T/T pair I'm not paranoid about

[Lady 6]

no I actually want G1 to be town very badly, this game would become much easier

[Lady 6]

my reads are in a bottle being turned upside down and shaken really hard

[Lady 6]

Lady six are you okay

no. but actually yes?

[Lady 6]

Lady 3

Lady 7

Gentleman 6

Gentleman 2

Gentleman 9

Lady 1

[Lady 6]

I think Lady 3/Gent 9 and Lady 1/Gent 6 are *good actually*™

[Lady 6]

Lady 4, why do you scum read Gent 9

[Lady 6]

Hi, I’m super behind now

Can someone catch me up on the main points that I’ve missed?

> Gent 9 "town slipped" but really he just misread the setup and I think it makes him more town but no one else agrees

> big discourse on why Gent 7 had a fetish for seals and what that means for my alignment

> Gent 6 began big wall catchup post and is half way through

> wagon is growing on Gent 2/Lady 4

[Lady 6]

What was G9’s townslip/roughly where is it?

Spoiler:

so i realized

i misunderstood the setup in that I thought each dance has exactly 1 vote phase... so there could be in total 2 executions at most :S

so i put a lot of emphasis on leaving as the key mechanism to get mafia...

What were the conclusions (if any) about G7’s thing for seals?

mostly that it doesn't really make sense in any scenario but that it probably doesn't clear me because it doesn't make sense in that scenario either

[Lady 6]

Lady 4, I've been meaning to ask you, and this was a long time ago so if you don't remember oh well, but is there a reason you weren't curious why Gent 7 found you "not as good?" Additionally, who were you hoping to pair with at this point in the game?

Spoiler:

I ask Lady 6 to the dance.

Definitely the cutest, most honorable and townie looking lady.

Why 6?

I don't trust Lady 1.

2 and 4 aren't as good.

Wut about 5?

[Lady 6]

What's your case for L4 town?

[Lady 6]

I disagree that Lady 4 "came in and said G7 can die now"

She only turned against G7 once consensus was against him.

Spoiler:

Actually Gent 2's ISO is actively bad I take back what I said about him being in the same pool at G7

I'll agree with the consensus that G2 or G7 should be left out. I Lena more towards G2 but honestly I don't think there's a huge difference.
I need to ISO some of the people I haven't been zoning on (like G6 and L5) but I feel that can wait until dance 1

I'd rather leave out G2.chad, since G7.monkey has the ability to toggle if he truly thinks this is some kind of shit posting phase.
G2 is going to continue to play exactly the way he has been so far which is sub par play that will make him leave the dance.

As far as alignments are concerned I don't particularly like either I guess, if someone talks to me about it I'd be willing to dive them more in depth.

Im leaning this way also

I think they both could be town, but I feel stronger about G2.

Which slot do you think would be easier for you to sort, Lady 4?

Errrrppfj
G7 I think

You can take G2 over me. The important thing is to identify the winning town-town pair. My survival isn't necessary.

This reeks town but also scum knows that saying this reeks town

[Lady 6]

What's your case for L4 town?

Aren't you townreading her though?

heh

not really anymore

My reads have been up and down a lot recently. The last list of green names I posted are the names I have reasonable confidence in to not rethink for at least a couple eliminations

[Lady 6]

I still just think scum wouldn't bail on other scum when the outcome is you dying because G2 doesn't want to try anyway

I mean I think G2 is flipping town

A lot of people were considering at least small reasons for G2 to flip town

[Lady 6]

Sigh I want G3 around

[Lady 6]

Idk I'm not really considering L3/G9 until much later if I have to

I could be sold on L2/G4 maybeeee but it doesn't particularly excite me

G4 seems cute

[Lady 6]

Are you comfortable enough in your L4/G2 town reads to have them be an end game pair?

[Lady 6]

Idk I'm not really considering L3/G9 until much later if I have to

I could be sold on L2/G4 maybeeee but it doesn't particularly excite me

G4 seems cute

Name 3 pairs you'd kill right now if you had that power.
I can answer this but I feel like you are ruling out options left and right idk.

I am aware I am doing the same thing, but I want to get into your headspace.

that's a hard question to answer because getting even one pair flip would inform what the next flips are

like if Lady 4 flips scum, I suddenly start considering leaving the dance

[Lady 6]

probably both sets of 2-4

and then the next would depend on whether those were all town or not

I'm not immediately sure

[Lady 6]

I am worried though if the game is not that easy that scum is like... in G5/L8 or something

[Lady 6]

VOTE: G2-L4

is it working

[Lady 6]

Hey G4, can you summarize your G6/L1 read?

[Lady 6]

I am hesitatingly surprised that we've had little to no inter-couple walkout fights in the thread. (I won't kinkshame what y'all do in your PTs)

they will start en masse if/when we get a lot of town flips

[Lady 6]

I want G3 to say things

[Lady 6]

I know we're not endgame material, but it would really help to end game earlier by finding the scum.

why do you keep saying you're not endgame material

by your own convictions both you and Lady 4 should be like super town right?

and it's not like there aren't people who town read your slots, it's conceivable to turn your pair around but not like this

where do you want us to look if you flip town-town?

[Lady 6]

> L3 and L6 and L7: hey everyone let's not talk about reads on L5, mkay?

> literally everyone else: dae Lady 5 is so scum/town/null?

[Lady 6]

I don't think we should move forward on any elimination before G3 pops in because he strongly town reads L4/G2 iirc and I'm interesting in what he has to say

[Lady 6]

where do you want us to look if you flip town-town?

G5's interaction was particularly the scummiest for me, but he wasn't the only and hence I'm asking for what you all think.

are you referring to him asking Lady 8 to dance?

[Lady 6]

We shouldn't pretend I am ignoring this grandiose scum case and am just sitting on my hands calling them town.
Their just isn't a scum case in the first place.

pedit: sorry I didn't vote with you.

the problem is, there isn't really a scum case on anyone in the first place (except maybe vaguely on g3 or l2?)

and I feel there won't be much more than that until eliminations happen

[Lady 6]

VOTE: G9-L3

why this over G5?

[Lady 6]

Hey, don’t want me to vote you, don’t tell me that you’re liable to vote for the wagon I want under pressure of being flipped

wow look at this townie blackmail!

are you seriously calling her scum for this?

ps; I am abandoning the not talk about lady 5 bit

[Lady 6]

i find it hard to believe that you would place a pair as your "favorite pair" if you don't townread one of the two.

on the motivation front? It's a strategy to just OwO the way through this game with a smitten partner, while being nice and friendly and happy with everyone to make it to endgame. this involves only weakly scumreading people who are under heat at the moment, which is something that I feel like you are doing. Now another explanation is that you are easily swayed by the excellent opinions by the participants of this ball, but your reads and posts themselves seem more consensus driven than any other player in the lobby

this is a good scum read

[Lady 6]

I don't really understand g9 partnering with l3 being scummy anymore

I feel like as scum he wouldn't wanna risk partnering with someone random early on? It's pretty believable to me as a spur of the moment town decision

[Lady 6]

i really wanted g3 to post first

i think it would've been really informative

[Lady 6]

fakegod scum siding confirmed

[Lady 6]

no

we were all lying about it being hammer

[Lady 6]

I guess it's scumsided modding to let fakehammering influence when you post a VC but I don't see strong evidence that FakeGod did so here, he posts VCs around this time all time

like I'm all for criticizing FakeGod's actual weaknesses like being too lazy to responding to feedback he got about usernames in perfect masquerade and proceeding to precipitate his own mod errors in this game because of that

but he's mostly a good mod and I think he knows about impartiality and would think critically about letting fakehammers influence his VC schedule

I was kidding to be clear I don't actually think there was anything wrong with posting a VC there

I'm actually kinda glad he did because I find in general those types of reaction tests to be more confounding than anything

[Lady 6]

smh this setup is so town sided/my team mates sucked/im actually a sea lion/[insert scum death rattle here]

[Lady 6]

no im a seal

if I were scum id be a dirty sea lion

[Lady 6]

do u have any thoughts on the pair currently getting wagoned

[Lady 6]

I think Gent 1 is scum

[Lady 6]

consider this: it is more scummy to avoid a mislynch and otherwise play passively than is it to push a mislynch

[Lady 6]

sans was pleasant to read but I don't see anything that particularly strikes me as town

nagito is straight scummy imo

[Lady 6]

I don't see why Gent 5 is being townread. It doesn't feel like he's trying to solve the game. I feel like Gent 5 and Gent 9 get townread for their verbose.

I'm not telling you to town read gent 5, although I do think you are off base about gent 9

although I'm afraid I don't think it's particularly scummy to be pushing a mislynch with 14 town and 2 scum alive

[Lady 6]

How? Straight up what is his agenda

agenda magenta flagenda doodenda

ok his agenda is to stay alive, cause few waves, and look town - the most basic scum agenda - but he isn't actually doing things town would do

he starts by saying he's gonna read through and analyze all the ladies in search of a G7 partner, then he picks a few posts from L1's iso, scum reads them, and just kinda stops there

his most recent pop ins (and in fact his whole ISO) are full of questions and posts that are honestly just kind of useless? It looks like he's posting and responding to stuff in order to post and respond to stuff, not because he actually has any interest in what the answer is going to be.

Spoiler: Let's just look at some examples

There is a fetish on this site for equivocating on eliminations I stg

what does this mean

VOTE: Lady 4

Fine L3 I'll place the vote for you.
Whatever let's move the game forward, even if I think this is bad.

don’t do this. Despair is not what is needed from you now.

G8, my current reads of much strength at L7 and L5 as town, and L1 as scum. I don’t exactly have a lot outside these though

unsure why he's telling you not to vote a wagon he evidently doesn't have a read on or has commented on at all before now

I guess it's scumsided modding to let fakehammering influence when you post a VC but I don't see strong evidence that FakeGod did so here, he posts VCs around this time all time

like I'm all for criticizing FakeGod's actual weaknesses like being too lazy to responding to feedback he got about usernames in perfect masquerade and proceeding to precipitate his own mod errors in this game because of that

but he's mostly a good mod and I think he knows about impartiality and would think critically about letting fakehammers influence his VC schedule

I think any mod would feel pressured to produce a prompt VC any time a hammer is suspected, which would explain away any “scumsided modding” arguments imo. Don’t know what you mean about precipitating mod errors

If the question is, does Lady 7 ever let a scum buddy die, I am not sure, it's all wifom because G7.vampire could have gone for a "big AtE" play and tell L4.Salad to bus him anyway in hopes of being an end game pair.
I am leaning town and I am not voting them as a result, but honestly I wouldn't be that suprised if Salad ended up being a werewolf or warlock.

SLIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

VOTE: Lady 4

Is this a genuine call out or nah

What wrong with Ankamius/Alyssa?

The part that makes Lady 7 townie to me isn't the fact that she faked a townslip it's that everyone was buying into it. Maybe a TMI that lady is town. The rest of the stuff is pretty basic that you could look up by seeing the other dance games.

I got left in pre dance last game so I'm sorry if I'm a little emotional today.

Is there a lot of this? I'd assume statements regarding who you were in the last game to be against the rules.

unsure why town really cares or worries about this

Also can someone answer my question about whether callbacks to the last anonymous dance are common?

I don't want to act like town can't have some fun or make posts that aren't game advancing. Town does quite a bit, but G1 has quite a volume of fluff compared to the other posts he's made. And when he does make game observations, they just seem milque-toast? His town reads are L7 and L5. And he scum reads L1. He's also shaded G4. He also seems perfectly happy with this level of understanding. Despite the wagon on Lady 4/Gent 2 ramping up, he's taken no interest in understanding it or offering an opinion on it. Like, I'd expect a townie to see the VC and at least be like "Okay guys what's the case on this pair?" but he's content to just post a few times about random stuff and then disappear, presumably waiting for the wagon to go through and then he can push more on G4 or something.

Speaking of his L1 scum read:

Wtf Gent 7 was a vampire who did that gimmic all game? I'm like, disappointed and surprised at the same time

This refers to the insistence on pairing with L6 right

How is that a not-scum gimmick? Like, wut *visible confusion*

I gut scum read this post but others may not agree

also, he claims he's still scum reading L1, but after his scum read he

Yeah actually that doesn’t read as any sort of recognizable agenda with that correction, still not a fan of the damage control but it’s probably not enough to substantiate a vote rn

backs off of it and gives himself an excuse not to vote. He's literally just floating around and he seems content to. "probably not enough to substantiate a vote rn" is a really weird thing for town to say especially at this stage in the game.

[Lady 6]

I disagree with the notion he is trying to survive. I don't think he has even has the chance to get into the game and killing him after 3 IRL days for not being able to get into a game of this volume just seems ridiculous to me really

I'm not saying we should kill him immediately, notice I'm still voting for G2/L4

I'm still on board with getting rid of G2/L4 first since I rather think those slots must go

I'm particularly interested in getting G1's reads on G2/L4 and the wagon on them

I just woke up feeling particularly strongly about this read and wanted to see what other's thought

[Lady 6]

I am not even arguing he is town, I think we have insufficient information to make that call. And the posts of a struggling individual are always going to turn up "yucky"

.

While I think this is true to an extent, I think there are scum!struggle posts and town!struggle posts.

[Lady 6]

okay, that's fair. apologies if it seemed like I was pushing for your pair to go immediately. I just had a sudden realization there was pretty much nothing from that slot that resembled town to me and I wanted to make sure that was out there.

I do think there's a lot gained from letting G1 have more time to acclimated

[Lady 6]

Personally when I struggle as scum I spew a wide range of reads, I end up looking like a buffoon and die as a result because they are all bad consensus reads I can't explain.
As town I sit on my hands and say "fuck everyone I don't know what I am doing and you can't force me to make reads".

I think I can argue a case to defend him within the range of everyone, but from my personal experiences I am leaning town because he strikes me as being similar to my town game then my scum game. But I don't think I can impose reads based on my own play style on other people so you can ignore this post if you want. It's really just a wordy gut town read.

yeah I can see this angle

personally because I already kind of have an idea of what I'm looking for if the G2/L4 pair flips scum, I started thinking about if it's T/T, and I think G1 fits the bill of someone standing off to the side waiting for the wagon to happen. The wagon itself is stagnant perhaps because scum are in a fragile enough position they don't want to risk dirtying themselves to much with it, but also don't want to push elsewhere because they hope it goes through.

Of course, G1 isn't necessarily the only slot that fits that bill. I just thought he fit that footprint especially well. Also, it's pretty moot if this wagon flips red imo.

[Lady 6]

that wasn't me

uh I don't necessarily NEED to wait for G3 I suppose

but he was strongly town reading L4 so I'm like kinda interested in how he reacts to this wagon?

[Lady 6]

yum yum this is very good for my ego

[Lady 6]

hey mr gentleman 1, could you talk a bit about your thoughts on gentleman 2 and lady 4, and maybe talk a bit more about why you think lady 1 is the most likely to be scum?

I don’t really have any strong thoughts on that post yet, all my solid reads so far have been formed by ISO reading. As for why L1 is my strongest scumread, she’s almost my only scumread, my only other person I’ve really suspected being G4, however the fact that I came back to that read after wavering tells me that is the right read on her

Gentleman 2 and Lady 4 are a bit of a hot topic right now

when you get a chance you should ISO them next

[Lady 6]

how awful L1's takes were.

could you expand on this?

[Lady 6]

I think im going insane

[Lady 6]

yes he is posting there

(he is not posting there)

[Lady 6]

that probably means I'm truly working out my brain here, which is good imo

do you understand that g9's "scumslip" was a joke

[Lady 6]

btw guys we have 4 days to lynch 2 pairs can we hurry up?

we have four slots which will not be voting which does not help things

lady 8 wouldn't commit to an ice cream flavor

lady 2 is on vacation?

gentleman 3 is MIA

and gentleman 1 won't commit to a vote even though he's found a very incriminating scum slip

[Lady 6]

sorry that was probably mean

[Lady 6]

for the record I would flip g3/L6 over G2/L4 but I know that won't happen. I just want bragging rights post game

if there's scum in my pair I GET the bragging rights

[Lady 6]

I was referring to what you initially called g9's scum slip but later revised to "scum utility post"

[Lady 6]

VOTE: Lady 2

[Lady 6]

I'm town reading you G4

I just realized something about L2 and it's changed my read of her

[Lady 6]

and sorry but I don't exactly trust that you have an accurate read of L2 because I think their playstyle makes them an extremely difficult read for most people

[Lady 6]

I just realized something about L2 and it's changed my read of her

which is what?
Y'all be keeping things vague this game like I remember G6 also said "I have something about L3 that I will elaborate on later".

their main

[Lady 6]

G6-L1G9-L3

yes these two are good

[Lady 6]

their main

can't argue against this

yeah that's why I was vague

I would rather you be able to give a better reason to push elsewhere specifically instead of reasons to no push you

[Lady 6]

nvm I still dislike L4 more than L2 VOTE: L4

[Lady 6]

Developing a prominent guess for L2's main has decreased my bloodlust for L2 which means either L6dewgong has a different guest or we think differently.

The person I'm thinking of generally deals with false negatives not false positives so invalidating G4's reads on per-user accuracy grounds would be backwards

no I think we have the same guess

I just think they have developed a much better scum game than most people give them credit for

this is probably not a line of argument we should go down though and I'll drop it for now

[Lady 6]

L4 is from G7's ISO. If G7 was struggling, he's not likely to link himself to someone who is "not good" unless hd knew L4 would reject it.

he had no other choice at that point

[Lady 6]

also what. he can of course know if L4 will reject it if they are buddies

[Lady 6]

nah I gotta go back and forth a few more times

it's all part of the process

[Lady 6]

eh I've yet to really hear a convincing reason for why L1 is scummy

[Lady 6]

and G6 is very towny imo

[Lady 6]

seal L6 did your reads update for G1

the only notable thing since my read on him is the whole scum slip on you thing

which as dumb as I think it was... probably is more town indicative? I didn't seem that fake to me

[Lady 6]

I think that's towny from G4 though

[Lady 6]

seal L6 did your reads update for G1

the only notable thing since my read on him is the whole scum slip on you thing

which as dumb as I think it was... probably is more town indicative? I didn't seem that fake to me

I flipped my read on G1 and I'm placing him between G5 and G4 rn. This really maps well with L7's big wall post in response to your case, which basically boils down to "yeah G1 sure is crazy, but I can't see in it an inch of scum motivation"

yeah that's probably a good read

I'm just not thinking about him anymore right now because me doing so in the first place was somewhat down to reacting to pre-flip associatives I'd built up in my head

[Lady 6]

and G6 is very towny imo

When did this go down.

somewhere around when you originally started your big case walls

[Lady 6]

L4, do you think G9/L3 are scum together? Or are they independent reads

[Lady 6]

if g2 is scum or better yet g2 AND l4 is scum im gonna feel not very smart

[Lady 6]

im proud of u lady 8

[Lady 6]

VOTE: Gentleman 1

[Lady 6]

I think beeboy was obvtown so g1nagito is a slower way to get scumflips than a double wildcard pair.

I'm not convinced L2G4 is the best option and the L2 V/LA is :/. But maybe L2G4 is the best.

I slightly town lean G4. I think L2 is like exactly rand alignment fmpov. Although yeah L2's V/LA basically being the rest of the first dance is uhhhh not ideal

L7 was indeed obv town but nagito is the only genuine scum read I have with any measure of confidence

maybe the nuller flips are better I just get less excited about them

[Lady 6]

I don't think Lady 5 not casing makes her scummy if that's what you're insinuating Gentleman 4

[Lady 6]

no I think you're probably more objectively correct

I just wanted to vote nagito because it feels good

[Lady 6]

G4, how has your PT been used thus far?

[Lady 6]

doesn't that feel good?

[Lady 6]

VOTE: G4/L2

[Lady 6]

VOTE: G4/L2

Is this trolling or because of what I said about the PT?

neither really

Can you expand on your L1 read? What specifically bothers you about her

[Lady 6]

I just realized I think the team is exactly G1/G5

[Lady 6]

okay that's too hasty

but I was looking through ISOs and G5 I don't understand why you have G1 in your endgame pairs despite having him at exactly null the entire game? I would assume you'd want a better reason than trusting other people's reads on him

[Lady 6]

my reads are in a bottle being turned upside down and shaken really hard

I'm treating gent 1 as town if Ladies 1 and 7 both think he is town

like you said this but you also haven't really been making an attempt to sort him

I dunno, feels like a weird way to treat a slot and I don't see this same attitude directed towards the rest of the game

[Lady 6]

he said work was just keeping him late ;_;

[Lady 6]

I also do not like G5's treatment of G7 whatsoever but I could be conf-biasing on that front

[Lady 6]

VOTE: G5

[Lady 6]

also I don't know how to say this exactly but G4 pushing G5 and then searching for reasons back there wasn't scummy

It wasn't "survivalist" because survivalism would mean G4 votes for his counter wagon or goes for a target where there is more interest like G3 or G9. and like I would argue scum generally are very careful about making sure they can justify all of their reads (a common newb scum tell is that they over justify every single read) instead of just making random gut pushes

[Lady 6]

His iso seems ok upon a glance

literally everyone's iso looks ok upon a glance in this game

how easy is it to fake his sorting / progressions?

[Lady 6]

What were the bad interactions with G7?

Spoiler:

I think it's productive to discuss which of the gentlemen we want to leave behind at this point. I liked Sherlock 3s entrance and I've been town reading teenisg4. Gorilla boy g7 is my least town gentleman read at the moment.

My take: Gentleman 7 has a good chance of being abrasive town, because the way they're acting isn't conductive to getting a dance partner and perhaps his team would be telling him to do otherwise

From what I know of the suicide mechanic in this game, it tends to hurt town far more than it helps it.

Have previously won this game by doing explicitly this.

Past results aren't always indicative of future performance. That being said, I don't feel incredibly strongly one way or the other, to be honest.

Sure. What would you like to talk about?

If you’ve gone into depth or substantiated your SR there more fully could you link me to it/quote it? If not, could you run through it for me? My impression of the new G6 has been pretty consistently town and I don’t want him eliminated

Sure, let me clarify the nature of my read there: I currently think Gentleman 6 is the best choice to be left out not because of material that he

has

posted that I find scum-indicative, but because—compared to the other unpaired Gentleman in the game—I have the

least

amount of reason to townread him. (Some may take a lack of town-indicative material as itself something that is scum-indicative, but that's really more of a philosophical debate).

Lady 6 had a minor reason to townread Gentleman 2, and his proposal to have some Ladies voluntarily refuse pairings to have more flips (which would presumably include himself being left out) I see as a minor reason to townread him. Gentleman 7's brash attitude seems on the surface to be unconcerned with survival, which I consider to be town-indicative.

When it comes to Gentleman 6, I just don't see reason to townread him. He's been around, but so far I feel he hasn't given many thoughts which have struck me very much. There was his point about how he thought his predecessor's replacement was towny, but I don't feel as though anything came from that; if he came to conclusions based off of people's reactions there, I haven't seen them. He's been chatting a bit with people, but I haven't seen anything that strikes me as incredibly in-depth or only likely to come from town.

I agree with you. Gent 7 doesn't look like mafia to me, Gent 2 I'm not sure on.

heh

i honestly don't understand why anyone thinks lady 6 is town. tbh she's the most likely to be scum among the ladies, from what ive read

if i had to choose someone currently unpaired to leave out, it'd probably be gentleman 4. need to think about this a bit

I'm paranoid about her as well, again

I'm liking Gent 3

Lady 1, Lady 3, Lady 5, Lady 7, Lady 8
Gent 3, Gent 9

Lady 2, Lady 6
Gent 1, Gent 7

Lady 4
Gent 2, Gent 4, Gent 6

This is how I'm feeling right now

I agree with the thinking that Gent 7's stunt here makes him look more suspicious, not less

G7, why do you think letting G2 pair with L4 instead of you is better than letting yourself pair with L4?

Real answer? I invest a lot of time and effort into a game, and I don't trust L4 to keep us alive long enough for me to have an impact on the outcome even if she's town.

I kind of liked this answer

Their reads in 1401-1402... it's awkward because I don't know how mafia are going to treat me this game. The few dissenting voices that questioned me seemed like it came from town, though, from Gent 9. Uncertain on Gent 2 because as said, his read feels more shallow.

Particularly, I am not fond of this last post where he agrees that G7 looks more suspicious, but also hedges by saying he likes this answer from G7 and reasserts that G2 is more shallow.

[Lady 6]

It wasn't "survivalist" because survivalism would mean G4 votes for his counter wagon or goes for a target where there is more interest like G3 or G9.

Counterpoint... Lady the 1st isn't nearly as townread globally as you make out.

Unsure what you mean by this

I'm referring to when G2/L4 weren't flipped yet and G4 was going after G5

I'd say G5 and L8 are pretty widely town read

[Lady 6]

I don't like the people who seemed complacent with 4-2 hangs after pre dance.

is this largely why you don't like L1?

[Lady 6]

Yeah, I mean that's a bit more survivalist than what he was doing. Not really relevant though because I was talking about the "read progression" G5 was taking issue with a few pages ago.

[Lady 6]

I would assume you'd want a better reason than trusting other people's reads on him

Not really? Lady 1 and Lady 7 were both townreading him and I was willing to sheep that much

Why is Lady 1 so high for you? Also, Lady 7 explicitly says we don't have enough information to read G1 in post #3065.

[Lady 6]

my reads are in a bottle being turned upside down and shaken really hard

I'm treating gent 1 as town if Ladies 1 and 7 both think he is town

like you said this but you also haven't really been making an attempt to sort him

I dunno, feels like a weird way to treat a slot and I don't see this same attitude directed towards the rest of the game

He seems pretty null to me

yeah... I dunno. Maybe your urgency to sort him isn't there because you don't expect to have to deal with that pair til later? Putting his pair in your top town reads then still seems weird to me.

[Lady 6]

waiting for L2 to come back is really going to stall out the game

[Lady 6]

Gent 5 shared this feeling with me in our PT at the same time I had it too.

Has anything in the PT affected your read of G5? If so can you paraphrase or summarize what it was specifically?

[Lady 6]

umm why would you do that?

[Lady 6]

1 - f4 is not after intermission, and i think that leaving is the correct decision for ~reasons~
2 - you flipped it, its that no scum have been flipped after 2 eliminations, I need to leave you, rather than you need to leave me.

these both seem like terrible ideas to air as town

[Lady 6]

I mean it doesn't matter, if she's gone the whole weekend than waiting for her means waiting until dance 2

[Lady 6]

G6, I want you to talk about your partner when you get the chance

[Lady 6]

you're town, but it honestly felt like scum theatre at first

I think there is very little reason for a L3/G9 team to need to do that at this point

[Lady 6]

I'm considering an L1/G5 world instead of G1/G5 world

[Lady 6]

this whole l3/g9 thing seems very tvt

I think either of you leaving is a supremely bad idea

[Lady 6]

hi im very nervous one of you is gonna rage leave in a fit of impulse and please don't do that okay?

[Lady 6]

g3 also thought l4 was very town and g2 pretty town which I think is a small point in his favor at this point

[Lady 6]

@L7, this was my initial case: viewtopic.php?p=12033216#p12033216

and then this was stuff that kinda started making me rethink G1:

Spoiler:

WHAT

I think this might have gotten lost in translation

3165 is reacting to 3163

I mean he's right, I forgot to make a scum PT template.

I should fix that.

WHO ASKS THAT THOUGH

WHO THE FUCK ASKS THAT

WHO ASKS THAT THOUGH

WHO THE FUCK ASKS THAT

sssshhhhhh, we aren't allowed to talk about who's who in this game yet, gentleman 1. save that for post-game

the answer was scum. Scum makes that post. Sure town make that if they're either blithely clueless or massively pedantic, but it's a very scum post to make imo
like it's a scumslip in a way that is very easy to wave off, which deflates real arguments for the person being scum
not to go on an irl tract but it's also why false flag operators are a horrible thing to not handle, because if you let the false issues go unanswered for, real issues tend to drown in the noise

But hey, I'll entertain it... in what way is this ever a scumslip?

Lay the hypothetical on me, walk me through scum guy the 9th logic or accidental logic when making that post.

Going forward if someone tries to scumcase him there's that not-scumslip that people can point to and deconstruct arguments with
it's short term weird for long term gain

What was the scumslip?

why the hell would town ask about that?
there's obviously the counterpoint of "why would scum ask?", and that's where the actual read on that post starts to form, because there's not really a rebuttal to that, as I said clueless or pedantic town could also ask, so now it becomes a bit of a "townpoint" for G9 because there's better logic for town to post it versus scum

it's a massive WIFOM bomb but it's logical (in as much as this counts as logic) to me

PEdit: okay yeah G6 is right, it's not a scumslip in reality, but a scum utility post. I just started calling it that because it was the first word that hit my brain

that probably means I'm truly working out my brain here, which is good imo

do you understand that g9's "scumslip" was a joke

even if it was a joke, it has that thread that can be pulled, by me or anyone else, that leads down the path I mentioned
it may be a joke but it's still content

[Lady 6]

hi im very nervous one of you is gonna rage leave in a fit of impulse and please don't do that okay?

is this directed at me? dw, im not that angry that fakegod trolled us with the flips

um no, lady 3 and gent 9

I feel like they won't but I've seen it happen before

[Lady 6]

Lady the sixth..... Did you still wish to engage?

Yes, I want to know your thoughts on your partner. Both in thread and in PT if possible. I'm very mixed on that slot but I currently think you are very town.

[Lady 6]

I'm in favor of going scorched earth on basically everywhere but Lady 3/Gent 9

I need more opinions on G1 first I think

[Lady 6]

I have explicitly asked her in our dance PT to let you and I chat without wandering into my lines of questioning or your lines of questioning and instead have asked her to focus on her burning desire to see the elimination through of guy the third. She has spoken at length in our private chat about a desire to balance her enjoyment of the game versus her effort that she needs to bring past where she enjoys efforting and I think that a scum case on guy the third is good justification to veer towards the latter.

Yeah, I'd like to see that. Also, maybe more on my slot because I haven't really known what to think of her indirect shading of my slot.

[Lady 6]

I am expliclty not townreading her. If I had a go back to dance pairings button where I could have replaced in before it all shook out I'm not sure I'd still have paired where I did.

That said I certainly don't regret making it to this phase!

Our pt is a few pages long. About 90 percent of it is my phone posting while I drive to and from work. That wasn't a joke. I generally use my commute to lay down thoughts using my phone's voice to text feature.

Were you town reading her when you paired with her? Has your read changed/progressed on her since then?

My thoughts on Lady 1 for a while is that she was just so free and seemingly uncaring with her posting that it seemed +townish. But that's not a lot to base a read off of and she seemingly does have very strong opinions (namely on me pair and G4/L2), and she's since reversed her "I'm fine with dying attitude" to "I want to survive" and that has me squeamish.

[Lady 6]

if we can take G1 is town, then going scorched earth on everything but G1/L7 and L3/G9 is not a strategy I disapprove of.

I specifically don't want G5/L8 in end game.

I don't expect my pair to be end-game with the state of G3. I town lean him currently but I still foresee myself leaving if the game lasts long enough.

[Lady 6]

I suppose that is pending what a g3 replacement does though

[Lady 6]

I think if we can prove Lady 1 is town we can make L1/G6 endgame.

Why is Lady 1 town?

[Lady 6]

That is the question I'd like to answer, yes.

It was more directed at you. She's a top town read of yours, no?

[Lady 6]

oh okay I might've misinterpreted an earlier reads list of yours

[Lady 6]

The vote proxying seems eyebrows if the L2G4 pairing includes scum while the L4G2 pair didn't. Deciding whether to bus is stressful

Hm, okay. He agreed with me on Lady 4 being town, had a suspicion of Gent 2, and had much less strong feelings on Gent 4/Lady 2. Prior to this he did the whole meme posting against Gent 2/Lady 4's pair, I know he somewhat preferred it but not a lot

Do you think Gent 5 as scum tries to delay Gent 4/Lady 2's flip if he's scum with one? Currently we're reconsidering Gent 4 being scum but are undecided on Lady 2

I think in general that's just a way to avoid responsibility? If he claims to just vote where you vote then it means he doesn't have to work as hard to come up with his own reasons to vote places.

It's not necessarily scummy but I'd personally be wary of it as a pocketing tactic as well.

[Lady 6]

What is the news of the world, friends?

[Lady 6]

Looking at the mod ISO I think it's fairly likely that G2L4 is not S/T, so why are there three votes there?

[Lady 6]

Oh, wait, that's backwards.

Huh. Was it a yolo leave or just a bad wagon?

[Lady 6]

What was the case? You seem to have gotten rid of the pairing with the second highest likelihood of being town.

[Lady 6]

You can't bring them back to life, so I'm not sure what you're hoping to get.

:eyebrows:

The reason for examining the reason for getting rid of town seems fairly self evident, and I'm not entirely sure why you'd think otherwise.

[Lady 6]

I am scumreading no one at the moment. I've read the mod's ISO, my PT and the posts made since I joined. Should I be scumreading L3?

[Lady 6]

I'm not impressed by my partner's presence in the PT and intend to ISO them.

I think it's likely the wagon on the pair that left scum out in the cold was at least moderately scumdriven, although I am aware the IC seems to disagree at least to some extent. Other than that, nothing real at the moment, no.

[Lady 6]

I don't. ISO-ing 8/14 players defeats the whole point of reading players in isolation. I'll get that information when I read the whole game thread normally.

[Lady 6]

Scum driven refers to the people pushing hardest for the elimination, not the majority of players on the wagon being scum. The point is to look for people who were pushing really hard for that particular wagon to go through.

My partner's in thread posts are considerably better than the ones in the PT, and the idea that he'd be relying on Dancefloor for his catchup totally jives with Dancefloor's in PT presence. I am mollified for the moment.


I'll have read the thread within the next 24 hours, at which point I should have notes.

[Lady 6]

You're being outright silly, any request that falls short of 100% is inherently reasonable. I have a setup strategy to present, if you would please, read every previous dance game

except

Merchant's Daughter in its entirety, so as to put you in the right mindset

I have previously read some subset of dance games, and am not going to further comment for the risk that FG will get annoyed at me if I get myself force replaced for a dumb reason.

[Lady 6]

What was the case? You seem to have gotten rid of the pairing with the second highest likelihood of being town.

pardon

They were the last pair to form and scum was left out in the cold. This is circumstantial evidence of being town.

Hindsight is twenty twenty Lady 6

You replaced in at a point where they already flipped and showed as town

Sure, but looking at the motivations of the people who pushed the wagon is 100% my best course of action here. If my impression from the mod ISO is hey, that pair is probably town, and then that pair is wagoned first, and they actually were town, I think looking at why they were wagoned in the first place is definitely worth my attention.

[Lady 6]

Alright, so I did significantly less reading than promised, and am feeling sick enough that I'm probably not going to get much done today either. I'd apologize, but trying to work through the haze I'm in would likely do more harm than good.

[Lady 6]

I think L3 and L8 are both town with high confidence. Pre replace lilith is not scum lilith from my memories, and scum lilith wasn't particularly hard to catch. 4064 is goodposting. I have a pretty good record at picking up when I'm being PT pocketed, though, so I'm not overly concerned with G3.

I think L3/G9 and G1/L7 are my preferred endgame pairs atm.

I also don't think early pages G4 is likely scum, but I'm not at all convinced L2 is town, which seems to be roughly opposite the thread consensus but still functionally the same thing.

My replace in theory was thoroughly shot to hell when I read G7's entrance. I think G7 probably realized pretty early that his slot was never endgaming, so it's likely quite a bit of his behavior was intentional smokescreening. That leads me to the belief that L1 is probably town. (Particularly, 910 looks to me like an attempt to make her look bad post flip, similarly to how 1398 seems to be an attempt to poison the well for {L4/G2}.)

Unedited notes from while I was a little feverish. Feel free to ask about them, but I don't actually remember what I was thinking for most of it:

L7G1 had interesting conversation about it. Particularly, G4's reaction to the original ask feels pretty eh and G5's seems pretty town.

L8 and G1 are likely the same alignment. If either is scum, it's probably S/S. I feel it is more probable that they are both town though. (p15)

G5/G9 is unlikely to be S/S. (Post 403)

L1 3 townpairs list seems really bad. Including herself and a person scumreading her seems like it's a move for towncred and not a legitimate play. (post 450)

[Lady 6]

You can be certain you're not being manipulated in just a little bit. I think Gent 5 and I are gonna get out of here in a few ^w^

I'd prefer any "I'm leaving so you can trust me!" bullshit doesn't happen. I'd settle for it not happening until post intermission, though.

[Lady 6]

I do not, but I think that everyone going through a nightphase and second guessing plus the more general stalling effect will likely do more harm than good

Theoretically we will make more informed decisions after the nightphase than before because we will have the additional information of who the scum killed.

In practice, we should probably not worry about deadlines as an elim factor until they actually are an elim factor. We have a bunch of people who are not caught up and a 48 hour period to do so would not be the end of the world. I agree that we need to get past this mire of not doing anything, but rushing a vote based on that is not a big thing in this game. If there is a pairing that is never going to endgame and is obviously never going to endgame, we can vote them. If there isn't, rushing to get our kills in today doesn't help us at best and might actively shoot us in the foot at worst.

[Lady 6]

:raises hand:

The likelihood that she's the nk makes it more important, not less, for her to get her thoughts into the thread now.

[Lady 6]

I want to hear from the new Lady the 6th before voting.

Uh...

My PT was pretty silent last night. I think G3 might've flaked. I'm not really opposed to leaving, tbh.

[Lady 6]

I'd really like to let Guy the 3rd try his hand at one last big effortwall... but if he gave up, he gave up. And given the kind of play and pride he has, his absence in and of itself is pretty damning.

I do want to hear more from lady the 6th-seal, though!

His last post in the PT was on the 10th, when he reached out to me to talk about reads. I didn't notice until after the night started, but I responded with an admission that I don't see tryharding as super important to getting a townwin here and a request that he give me thoughts on the reads list I posted in the main thread, but I don't know that he even logged in to see it. My reads are pretty weak, but from the discussion today I don't see it being super hard to just find a town pair and laze our way to victory.

I will give G3 time to weigh in in the thread if he so chooses though, because I'm aware how frustrating yolo leaves can be to town.

[Lady 6]

Real question: is there anyone who isn't townreading L1/G6 right now?

[Lady 6]

I mean... I think y'all are going about this all wrong, tbf. You're looking for the last scum when we should be looking for a pair that is never S/S with the flipped scum. There's only one scum left, so as long as the last pair is t/T we win.

[Lady 6]

i just really don't vibe your case on scum!him !

I thought the case on him was more that the flipped scum were trying to get people to focus on you out of the pair, when you are pretty obviously the stronger player from a (becoming townread) PoV, which seems like a strong enough case to not have him endgame. I don't particularly think he's scum, but I wouldn't be opposed to flipping him. Vaguely, I'm in a similar place with G3. I think it's very possible that he's town, but I'm not really sold on him being town either, so if we die, we die.

I'm feeling pretty happy with L3's 4517, tbh, and I'd probably be okay with either of G5/L8 or G6/L1.

[Lady 6]

@G6 acknowledged. G7 is not Nero.

I was being super sarcastic, but thank you for playing the straight (wo)man.

I am also not G7, despite frequently being a dick. Just in case that helps.

[Lady 6]

Eh. I'll give G3 at least 24 hours to come in and share his thoughts if he's going to. Maybe he's got some big brain gamesolve that'll save us from doing a dumb. I just don't really think that's a thing that'll happen.

[Lady 6]

Ah, that sounded more enthusiastic than it was meant to. Let's let the phase play out a little more, for sure.

[Lady 6]

Why are people suspicious about me?

The consensus seems to be pretty much the opposite, actually. We're talking about townhunting instead of scumhunting and then just letting the corpses fall where they may.

[Lady 6]

I guess I'll rephrase my question though.

Does anyone have any particular reservation about either of G5/L8 or G6/L1 being the last pair standing?

[Lady 6]

BLOODBATH BLOODBATH

[Lady 6]

Not an image I thought I'd see coming from Lady 6

Out of curiosity, is that a claim that you think you know who I am and think the image is out of character, or just a generic 'huh' comment?

[Lady 6]

That's okay, my meta is to kill baby animals and I consider it to be integral to my site identity that I be allowed to do that.