DEFCON Mafia 5.0: GAME OVER - NEW AMERICA FORMED
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joqiza
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joqiza
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza Goon
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so we submit our choices for troops as soon as defcon 4 starts
troops are like PRs it seems. i think all else equal we'd like town to have these powers?
troops are unique. only 1 person can have each troop. there are more players than troops, so not everyone gets one.
if there's a conflict with drafts (i.e. two or more people want the same troop) than whoever submits the PM to the mod first gets it. lmao.
therefore, i propose we hammer into defcon 4 at some coordinated or agreed upon time in thread, to maximize the ability for townies to procure their desired troop. we have the advantage of numbers, scum have the advantage of coordination: we should try to even that playing field.
at the least, all townies should have the troop draft PM to the mod ready and waiting to go as soon as we enter defcon 4.
this is assuming i'm not misunderstanding something about the mechs. plz correct me if so.-
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza Goon
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Looking at the list again I think the one we should really try to get is submarine because it's dangerous in enemy hands. So if town gets it they can just hardclaim it.
Espionage also seems useful since it's just an investigative... maybe if someone rushes counterintelligence too that could be useful. Not sure if worth it but if a townie ended up with it they can hardclaim it and get resolved to ensure all alignment checks are real.
Idk what other troops are really that useful. Most of them seem protective which doesn't seem worth giving up basically a dayvig for.
Maybe some of them are useful to grab just to stop scum from getting them.-
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza Goon
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In post 401, SirCakez wrote:Soldier marry has not picked up their intelligence. I will draft a new cadet.-
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza Goon
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we are both refugees from the Lost Site of EpicMafiaIn post 417, Bell wrote:here you're at and where you're coming from.-
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza
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joqiza
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joqiza Goon
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ha, this is kind of interestingIn post 519, mastina wrote:The joqiza-marry dynamic to me is very very strongly reminiscent of Ydrasse-pichu(Hectic), a dynamic that I don't think scum can create.
i actually happen to know ydrasse n hectic, they played together on my home site once. so i know what you're referring to. (actually ydrasse is the one who told me to sign up for this... she said the p-list was excellent.)
i'm not sure what you mean when you say "a dynamic scum can't create" though
marry and i have been playing mafia together for a long time and we can read each other pretty well. if she chooses to stick around i'll probably be able to give you a pretty good guess at her alignment, at some point. but not quite yet.-
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza Goon
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so @mastina to be clear the unnerving thing about your read was the fact that you said you townread me AND marry. She really has not been present enough to have much of an idea abt her alignment besides rand. it's not that I'm saying you're WRONG it's that I feel like as the resident marrytologist I haven't even given my professional opinion yet... it's all a bit premature.
Maybe I'm being unfair tho and what you're saying is that you're putting us both town cuz if one of us is scum at some point in the future you'll know about it cuz one of us will snipe the other... and that's true... probably.
Worth noting that marry is kinda busy rn I think so may not be the uh final occupant of her slot-
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza Goon
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@church
i always have a tough time explaining it which is why people never listen to me. mostly it's just pattern matching the way she's approached the game with how she usually does as town vs. scum.
i thought she might be town from her first few posts anyway just because she presumably read her role PM and hopped right into thread and she came off town to me there, but i wanted to wait and gauge her a bit more first.
the way she's approached pooky in particular feels like her town game to me. like i think she is just trying to get a grip on the game in an unfamiliar context in the way she knows how.
as either alignment she has a sort of "survivor" mentality where she's looking to almost make friends/alliances and that trips people up sometimes.
i don't have a 100% read rate on her, when we first started playing mafia together she used to trick me a lot, but i like to think that it's those early experiences that let me know what to look for. i once correctly read her as 3P in a game--ask her about that some time.-
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joqiza Goon
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i don't think marry/pooky are ever SvS even in the universes where i'm wrong about marry being town. but at that point i'm already off base i guess.
i don't really know how to explain what i see except to give the context that marry isn't typically a "nail scum to the cross on d1" kind of player. she usually shines more in lategame. her posts give me the sense that she was trying to find a couple townreads. and just like, trying to have fun and not get overwhelmed by the size of the table. this is a bigger crowd than both of us are used to i think.-
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joqiza Goon
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i feel like i didn't answer this directly so i guess i'll try to clarify that i don't think she would approach pooky that way at all if she were scum... i think if she were scum her "buddying" would be more subtle.In post 752, The Church of Skitter wrote: Why do you think Marry approaches Pooky the way they did as town and what do you think she would do if she was scum?
Marry's read on Pooky seems unreasonably strong to me and tbh, that could be concerning? Like they were like "What no way Pooky is literally defending the motherland" or something I don't remember exactly but I personally want to poke at this more.
i also think her read on pooky isn't really as strong as you seem to be saying here, it feels more like an early vibe thing to me
regardless i think marry is entirely capable of defending / explaining for herself so i don't think i need to be stepping in here and saying these things for her. i encourage you and anyone to apply pressure if that's what you feel.-
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joqiza Goon
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I'll just reiterate what I said at the end of 759. I don't think I can do as good a job of answering your questions as she can herself and I have no issue with people pressuring her at this stage of the game. So I encourage you and everyone else to engage her directly when you have the chance.In post 760, The Church of Skitter wrote:
The 2 personalities seem to match. I know you know marry more than I do but I'm not sure I agree with it. I think because its Pooky its possible.In post 759, joqiza wrote:i feel like i didn't answer this directly so i guess i'll try to clarify that i don't think she would approach pooky that way at all if she were scum... i think if she were scum her "buddying" would be more subtle.
Ya I'm also asking because it wouldn't be impossible for me to misunderstand itIn post 759, joqiza wrote:i also think her read on pooky isn't really as strong as you seem to be saying here, it feels more like an early vibe thing to me
Welcome Merlot.-
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joqiza Goon
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Appreciate the note of confidence, but a tiny bit surprised just cuz I know you've played with us, but wasn't aware that you'd played much with marry in particularIn post 812, Merlot wrote:joqiza is fairly repping marry’s meta
I think you did articulate what I was trying to say better than I was able to though.-
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joqiza Goon
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Ha, okay. I think you did mention similar to me once. I don't want to be weird about it I was just squinting for a sec cuz you described her play I think pretty well and in particular how she might play with me at the table and I couldn't recall a time we'd all played together.In post 836, Merlot wrote:
i spectated a lot of games on em before i played the few i did. i didn’t join them for personal reasons nor the spec chats but i kept up with them as they’re a lot of the reason why i’m here playing now
But nothing you said seemed wrong and I think additionally you put words to something I was struggling to which was that she actually didn't engage me as directly as I think she would have as scum and was comfortable enough to do her own thing. At the risk of revealing my hand for future games, I think as scum she might actually engage with me more directly and try to "neutralize" me, in a similar fashion to how I engaged Koba in that newbie game we played a million years ago.-
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joqiza Goon
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I went and looked at Pooky/Kanna in TM and I guess I can... sort of see what people are saying. Kind of. I think I'll amend my read to say that the way marry approached Pooky isn't the way I'd expect her to work a pocket as scum, but I guess more exotic shenanigans are possible. The prior for any two players being scum together is pretty low so I'm not super worried atm. I'll keep it in mind.-
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza
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okay well if i do end up voting mastina i want it known that i have no ill will against her! actually i loved a lot of your posts @mastina, your one about me and marry bouncing sound waves off each other was super cute and made me smile. i didn't get the sense you're a bad player or anything either, actually i vibed with a lot of your reads and content but my concern is actually that you know too much. some of the conclusions feel reached before i can understand how the underlying evidence led you there-
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sam is a player from our homesite... not sure how to describe, he's a very nice guy but he gets limmed a lot. not sure what other details would be helpful or if it's productive to dive into some random guy's playstyle whom none of you know. like i mentioned i'm also not sure exactly how it maps onto this situation for marry but i'm sure she'll clarify to me once she's back onIn post 1398, Mognet wrote:Who is samp4palmer? Is this from another universe artwork Kupo?-
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I don't really know what "coasted on a genuine meta read" means or how it applies to me this game.In post 1456, Bell wrote:NGL, my read on Joqiza is going all over the place because I remember a particular brand of scum that coasted on a genuine meta read.-
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joqiza Goon
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Ultimately I'm not really sure what else is needed from me at this stage of the game. I could write up a bunch about mastina but I don't think it's going to affect the way anything plays out today and there's enough content as is. I'll be... professional, in my hammer and I think that's the best thing I can do here?
If people want more reads or something from me I can do that. I have more jumbled thoughts atm than actual reads. I've focused on laying out my marry read because that's where I feel like I can make a difference to the game.-
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza Goon
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?
I said what I said about the hammer, I don't get why being uncertain is AI on D1 of a game. If you think it is, then you shouldn't.
Being more expressive about reads =/= being more expressive about the flipped slot... that's simply not what I'm saying. I'm saying the flip (not necessarily mastina's, but a flip in general) will help inform my reads on other slots.-
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joqiza Goon
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joqiza Goon
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Mognet I guess I don't really understand your issue with me. When I say something like "I think I'll be more expressive" or "I think I'll hammer" it's predicated with "I think" because it's a prediction of future behavior. If I wanted to commit to this I'd say something like "I promise to hammer" (note at this point I have actually gone ahead and given that commitment to hammer.)
At any given point I try to communicate in a way that is accurate to how I feel in the game. It's worth pointing out too that there's nothing prevent scum from saying "I'll do X" and then just... finding a reason not to do it.
As I've said before, if your issue with me is that I'm uncertain in the first place I think that you portraying something which is not scummy as a scumtell. On D1 of any game town is operating with minimal information, and any given player you wagon is likely to flip town just from prior probability. Of course, it's patently ridiculous to use that as a reason not to lim anyone, so the reality is you need to make a judgement call on who at the table is likely to flip +scum above rand. Overall the nature of D1 doesn't justify inaction, but it does justify uncertainty.
To me it feels like you are SR'ing me for the way I express myself which is why I react strongly to it I guess. If that's not your point then please clarify but I'm pretty sure I'm just the kind of person who says "I think I'll do X" rather than "I'll do X" and it's not really like I'm going to change that.-
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joqiza Goon
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I actually am hunting btw, there's a reason I'm fixated on this and you can call it OMGUS but the cool thing about this setup is I only need to convince one person: myselfIn post 1547, Mognet wrote:
Then you’re trivializing it Kupo. If someone said that IRL and I was at the fridge I would get it or ask them what they wanted. Again it’s not the uncertainty that is the question. It’s the motivation behind it and the context and the why. “I think I will vote” and “I think I will hammer” are common scum tells and if it’s really so nebulous you’d just move on and just hunt.In post 1542, joqiza wrote:Mognet when someone says "I think I'll go ahead and get myself a glass of water" do you start wondering "DAMN I wonder if they're going to get themselves a glass of water??? They said 'I think' that's so noncommital to whether they want that water or not."
That's what this push feels like to me.
You've said that the "motivation and context" behind my vote is scummy but you've failed to sufficiently explain to me why that is true. I've tried to understand your perspective and I've offered my own and you seem unable to understand it. If you genuinely think saying "I think I'll hammer" is a scumtell then I suppose you'll need to do some revision to your methodology. As it is I think we're done here.-
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