FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over

[Servant Avenger]

Hello, I'm here.

I am claiming Miller. You know what helps to sniff out a false Miller? Becoming the master!

[Servant Avenger]

That's uncalled for!

[Servant Avenger]

Moon Cancer just looks to be keeping options open there.
What tiers do you have for those names, Moon Cancer?

[Servant Avenger]

So you have 5 scumreads and 2 townreads so far, is that correct?

On my phone, it looks like the Caster line is just an extension of the nulls. Am I incorrect?

No, it's a different line.

[Servant Avenger]

VOTE: Berserker

Out of the 3 options I only like Beserker.

[Servant Avenger]

I'm just going to call Archer town.

[Servant Avenger]

And I don't really believe the miller claim and feel like it was mostly done in reaction to Assassin indicating he had a cop-like ability.

in fact late miller claims are often fake. Scum likes to wait and claim miller once they are sure that no one less does it.

I said in my first post.
I didn't see the game started until I posted and neither did I read anything at that point.
Try again.

[Servant Avenger]

do you have thoughts? Don't worry we still got some pages left

Not really.
It's irrelevant to me until I see particular people post after the master selection.

[Servant Avenger]

Avenger, I'm pretty sure if you read that again you'll note that they're saying you're more likely to be town by claiming miller on your first post.

I read it because it was page 10 that I posted?
Foreigner to confirm?

[Servant Avenger]

Dislike. Nothing is preventing you from reading the game / scumhunting before a master is selected, and 13/14 of the players have posted by this point. What could you really be waiting for.

I'm reading the game.
Hence why I want to see the master result first.
I can pretend to throw some names around for reasons I don't really believe but I don't see the production value there.

Right now this is more or less RVS with a twist.

[Servant Avenger]

@Avenger, That is palpably not true. I see very little difference between this phase and a typical D1 of any game. In fact I'd argue the game rolls a bit faster here simply because of the unique mechanic. Please, pretend!

Okay, I think you're scum.
Gut feeling, hard to explain.

I like Beserkers posting, town minded.

Something seems off with Saber.

There you go.

The question is, is it actually better for scum if they hit their own in the master phase?
I doubt it. Having an additional person to decieve is a lot stronger. I wouldn't assume that the powers are of equal value to towns, with a great boost on a scum flip. It makes something that is easily manipulated into a strange reward on scum, rather than a balancing mechanism.
I also doubt that scum will be pushing their own without a larger majority pushing for a slot. Therefore if any of the 3 for masters flip scum I'm inclined to think its town voting there, or at least being vocal.

So you're right, I've mis spoken by saying RVS, but more like day 1 where its irrelevant to my thinking until I see information.
Or until I see something that I just don't like.

[Servant Avenger]

It's rather hard for me to believe someone didn't realize the game started for almost 16 hours. I recognize that not everyone is as obsessive an addict to this website as I am, but am I really to believe Avenger was simply not paying attention at all and it took him that long to come to the game thread? We all received notice of the game starting, it's not like he wouldn't have reason to check his messages.

The excuse strains credulity.

I never received a PM on my real account which I was waiting for.
You can claim to scum read me, but let's drop the bullshit reasons as its just a wierd thing to argue.

[Servant Avenger]

Well I didn't...
And as either align its just wierd for me to lie over.

[Servant Avenger]

I am very disappointed in the lack of serious effort/playing from Avenger

Sorry mum! I'll try better.

[Servant Avenger]

It should be noted hat all 3 of the people pushing for the grail position have been relatively good at being assertive and not very gunshy. I'd be somewhat surprised if any of them turned out to be scum tbh. I think this is just another game where scum have decided to be on the peripheral than to fight for the spot.

What's stopping scum from being assertive here though?
I wouldn't be surprised at all if scum are in these 3. I'd be surprised if there's more than 1 though.

[Servant Avenger]

Interesting because I can verify Servant Avenger's claim of having not received a PM on my main. I did not receive a daystart PM on any account other than this.

Hmm, this is interesting.
Did anyone else actually get a day start pm on their main or is this a scum slip to knowledge via the scum PT or something from Foreigner?

[Servant Avenger]

Ave said that never received PM on main and i remembered receiving one. I guess it was just a role pm.

I some how doubt this. I think it was a scum slip.
At least it's going to make it interesting as soon as day phase starts.

[Servant Avenger]

There is no point in scum receiving a PM on mains about daystart and town not getting one. You just shade me for miller thing

I'm not saying thats the case.
I'm saying you were in a scum PT and were notified there.
You wanted to use it as an argument to me lying about being late, but you fucked up just a bit there I think.

I can wait until day start though.

[Servant Avenger]

I don't see why Foreigner would lie about something that's easily disproven? I find it far more likely they simply misremembered about getting the role PM on their main and confused it with the daystart.

And yet they are basing that 'confusion' to push my claim as a lie...
I think you mis understand, I don't think Foreigner directly lied, other than seeing it on the PT. It's a slip, not a lie.

My argument was that I didn't receive one. The counter argument was Foreigner then implying I'm lying about that because they received one. This is building the walls around the foundation, but yet they haven't checked if this is even correct?

[Servant Avenger]

Settle down, Beast. Comments like that to Ego are just uncalled for.
Move on and let's just enjoy the game regardless.

[Servant Avenger]

VOTE: Shielder

On a side note, this is a vanity vote

[Servant Avenger]

VOTE: Foreigner

Lim here!

[Servant Avenger]

I would like a readslist with some explanations, Avenger.

It's irrelevant.
I think Foreigner is scum here.
I think scum voted you but max if 2.
I don't think both Assassin and Sabel are town.

I think you're town and I have a very small town pile.

I'm going to be V/LA over the weekend and probably most weekends.

If this is an issue, then even though I'll probably always be in posting requirements, I'll just make sure I am.

[Servant Avenger]

Dedicating time to this game but I wouldn't expect to much for 24ish hours due to the type of weekend.

A recap would be nice

Claims:

Avenger: I am claiming Miller
Assassin: Claims their NP a guaranteed cop-shot that can even go through the miller
Saber: Claimed their NP was one of the strongest in the game, but just recently claimed the ability would limit the posting of 1 player
Beast: Claimed they are informed that Shielder is town

Berserker/Mod Confirmed: They are immune to investigations, but I don't think that matters much, now that they are confirmed town anyways

And then here are a few detailed read lists, with post links and stuff that might help:

Here is Berserkers, it came towards the end of the Day 0, after it was clear Berserker was getting the master: 504
Here is mine: 901 / 902
Rider: 855
Previous Ruler: 834 cases town reads + 890 cases scum reads

I missed the assassin post there.
Well if Assassin targets anyone outside of me, it's a scum claim.

[Servant Avenger]

I think Ruler, Archer, Beast, and Ego are all town so far. I also had Rider as town but I need to te check why.
I'm inclined to believe Assassin as it's easily disproven.

[Servant Avenger]

How's that? By eliminating you?

I guess you can argue that after a check has been done, yes.
Although at that point, either I'm lying and Assassin has a guilty on me where it's irrelevant anyway, or Assassin has a not guilty and logically I'm not the favoured lim in this pool.

[Servant Avenger]

I'm not sure how I feel on Sabers claim as scummy here.
What's the thought of it being scummy? The fact Saber said it was powerful late game or because of the power?

If you don't believe that Saber thought it was a powerful role then why do they claim it here? Either Saber thinks its powerful as either align or keeps quiet if scum who doesn't think it's a powerful role.

[Servant Avenger]

...because they were being intentionally vague and lying to try to win the master vote?

Lying is the term of discussion here.
If they were lying rather than having belief to it, then why come out and say what the power is?

They were not in threat of being the primary vote, and following 901 it just seems like something that isn't scum minded to do.

[Servant Avenger]

like wtf is this? People are fine being at the same wagon as this guy

I guess your scum game isn't as good as you think?

[Servant Avenger]

@avenger, would you claim Miller as scum? No meta. Just on a personal level. Do you think that as scum you would claim Miller out the gate?

No, I wouldn't.
But given I give this same answer as town or scum it has no impact.

[Servant Avenger]

Let's put it this way though, how often are millers dealt with?
More than not. I personally think that the general meta should be Miller claims do not make MyLo unless confirmed town.
I also think that a vig should always shoot a miller claim regardless of what has happened. Therefore, it's actually a stupid play from scum to claim (hence why the meta should remain regardless).

I don't survive to end game, and I'm not going to be pushing back on that later.
I have 2 additional roles though, 1 is either for or against scum (and low key ironic for me to get), and 1 is anti scum in this setup.
Both of these are also provable, the first at any point in the day and the second at the end of the day.

Here's some food for thought though, and I've been thinking this over for the last day to if I should say or not, and I've decided I want to since Lancer and Foreigner are shading and most likely contain 1-2 scum.
In addition, my power up power thing is the same Sabres. Originally I read Sabres comment as it's better late game, and that is my view on it.
So my thoughts here are
A) if anyone else at all has this power, then its plausible to be town or at least irrelevant to thought right now and I think Sabre is town anyway.
B) if only me and Sabre have this power then it's likely 1 of us is scum and 1 of us is town. Obviously in this situation, I would claim the town.

If its A, I'm probably going to use my first power on Foreigner if the votes are not going there.

[Servant Avenger]

Why claim now? It's not like anyone was voting you.

Because there's a chance that me and Sabre are half matching and different alignment. That's why I want to know if even a single other person also has our power up thing.
If not, and it is only me and Sabre with it, I have more to offer that suggests Saber scum.
I do think it's most likely others with it too though, but if I'm wrong there then either me or Saber should be scum here.

I want to see what Saber full claims as well.

Me claiming what I have and advising I have other powers too isn't something I'm in worry about.
If I'm the scum NK, then it's a bonus. If I get to effectively use my powers, thats even better.
Or I'm just scum and this is all irrelevant.

[Servant Avenger]

I'm assuming the gladiate was the doing of Avenger. Would like him to confirm.

I confirm it was me.

VOTE: foreigner
This is flipping scum.

The reason I gladiator here is because I do that read Moon as scum.
Sabre may be lying but given the roles, they too have 1 role that benefits scum and town, and 1 anti scum (I'll find it hard to believe that scum can power up their own NP).

foreigner has been sitting in the back, asking why I'm not at E1 while still not voting me there? Just shading instead of actually reading and actually happy where the votes are going.

There's scum within me and foreigner 100% of the time here.
As I said, I also have an anti scum role which can be proven when I like. I won't be sharing it today though unless it becomes beneficial.

[Servant Avenger]

I do that read Moon as scum.

Because I do not*

[Servant Avenger]

Apparently my true identity (character name) will be told to everyone as well.

[Servant Avenger]

Yeah, fuck no, there is absolutely no reason as town to force a gladiate immediately once the clear altslips and has to be replaced, and there are dueling wagons happening. You hijacked the game unnecessarily and forced a 1v1 between you and a player outside those wagons who hasn't even had a chance to claim. That's scummy as fuck.

VOTE: Avenger

Thats fine, I'm taking note on everyone trying to defend foreigner here.

[Servant Avenger]

I'm certain notscience would have spiked your head into the ground if you had tried this shit while he was around.

So I did it because Berserker was replaced, before we knew it was Beserker being replaced?
Okay...

[Servant Avenger]

Moon is blatant fucking scum and the fact you're intervening to save them says it all.

You can try and discredit here.
I'll always trade 1 for 1 so foreigner is fucked here regardless.

Anyone hard defending him today is going under the watch going forward.

[Servant Avenger]

I'm certain notscience would have spiked your head into the ground if you had tried this shit while he was around.

So I did it because Berserker was replaced, before we knew it was Beserker being replaced?
Okay...

Whoops, didn't notice the timeline there. (I had guessed it but I realize not everyone would have). Irrespective of that, you were still directly subverting the clear for absolutely no good reason to save Moon Cancer, who is scummy as fuck, without waiting for anyone's input. There's just absolutely no credible town motivation for such a play.

Whoops indeed, Ego.
I was hardly going to ask nicely now, was I?

As I said, there's 100% scum within me and foreigner.
Even if I am the lim today, not only does it solve the miller issue but it gives foreigner scum.

[Servant Avenger]

I mean, you can try o intimidate me, I don't really care because I know it's all bullshit.

I like that you are so brave and strong!

[Servant Avenger]

Weren't you planning on using a night action, that was like, totally confirmable? whatever happened to that?

I never mentioned a night action.
If you want to discredit me then at least read what I posted.

[Servant Avenger]

100% scum based on...?

On that I'm right here.
I'm genieunly good with this, even more so when people use bullshit reasons to try and force a push.

And I can say that because if I flip scum it means fuck all.
If I flip town, then what I'm saying has merit.

[Servant Avenger]

I misremembered what I read earlier. So this is the power you were planning on using?

This is the power I planned on using, yes.
I'll use my other power if I need to. But that is also a day phase, just generally end of day.

[Servant Avenger]

Yeah there's no way you pull this shit as town, the timing is the most blatant opportunism imaginable.

Okay. So I just want it for clarification, you are calling foreigner town here, correct?

[Servant Avenger]

I'd be more willing to bet on him flipping town than you right now, yes.

Thats a different statement considering I never do this as town in your view.
Either I'm only scum here and foreigner is only town, or there's situations where I do this as town.

Which one is it?

[Servant Avenger]

Foreigner is town. Berserker had them as town. Berserker had just announced that moon cancer was going to be his chosen first elim.

This gladiate is either the most anti-town shit you could have pulled, or just scum.

I want to point out here that Berzerker is mentioned when giving the read on foreigner because they are confirmed town, correct?
Meaning that that view is genuine and there for should be listened to.

So if I am to flip town, where does this leave the read in your view? Given that my thoughts are equally as geniuen.

[Servant Avenger]

foreigner has been sitting in the back, asking why I'm not at E1 while still not voting me there? Just shading instead of actually reading and actually happy where the votes are going.

My vote was on Moon, because there was support for his death. I wish you had that support, so i could switch but i had more then one SR, so no reason to waste my vote.

So you didn't want to put any effort it? Got it.

[Servant Avenger]

@Avenger I would also love to hear your progression on moon cancer and why you don't think they're scum

I just don't read anything they say as scummy. That doesn't mean I town read them but I think it's an easy mis lim to go for.

[Servant Avenger]

Yes, you're scum, he's town, that's obviously what I meant, shut the fuck up

Okay perfect.
So this is someone hard defending foreigner.

[Servant Avenger]

Avenger, no one else has claimed the same NP as you and saber. why are you not voting for saber? why would you gladiate foreigner and not saber?

Answer this too please.

I did answer.
I explained why I did this and why I'm not voting Sabre.

[Servant Avenger]

I had foreigner as scum in my scum list, but this play makes me want to vote for Avenger

And, it makes me want to eliminate Moon with the second elim of the day.

Avenger, I am not sure what you were thinking here.

I'm getting scum caught.

[Servant Avenger]

Avenger - You previously stated that if only you and saber had the same NP, that you would assume it would be one town and one scum, so saber should be near-confirmed scum to town!you now since no one else has claimed anything similar. Why would you ever gladiate someone else?

I answered this.

[Servant Avenger]

Yes, you're scum, he's town, that's obviously what I meant, shut the fuck up

Okay perfect.
So this is someone hard defending foreigner.

Yes, because your gladiate is a fucking scumclaim

And your defending of scum is a scum claim.

[Servant Avenger]

100% scum based on...?

On that I'm right here.
I'm genieunly good with this, even more so when people use bullshit reasons to try and force a push.

And I can say that because if I flip scum it means fuck all.
If I flip town, then what I'm saying has merit.

So your "there is 100% scum between the two of us" is basically, you are really really sure of your read?

Jesus Christ.

You are so sure of your read that you decided to halt the plans for the entirety of the town.

I agree, even if you are town, this is the most anti-town play you could have made

There's no way that foreigner ever flips town. I'm telling you this.

[Servant Avenger]

foreigner has been sitting in the back, asking why I'm not at E1 while still not voting me there? Just shading instead of actually reading and actually happy where the votes are going.

My vote was on Moon, because there was support for his death. I wish you had that support, so i could switch but i had more then one SR, so no reason to waste my vote.

So you didn't want to put any effort it? Got it.

First you accuse me because i 'shade' you and now you accuse me because i don't put effort on you.

Shade isn't effort, let's not kid ourselves here.

[Servant Avenger]

I mentioned Berserker because you took an action that explicitly undermined his views as town leader for what seems like a bad reason compared to the opportunity you had to gladiate saber who should be near-confirmed scum to you. I also trust his reads, but the main point here is that this action is inherently anti-town for opposing the town leader and forcing the elim like this.

I am still pretty sure Foreigner is town. I don't really think your alignment impacts my read. My scumread on you is entirely independent of your target.

Unlike the players trying to pretend here I'm not only going to follow someone from the title 'leader' even when I think they are wrong.
And of course you won't have an impacted read on a red flip foreigner...

But even if I'm flipped, foreigner and anyone who is hard defending there should all be checked and limmed.

[Servant Avenger]

Also, for the record I can stop this gladiator attempt at any point I want.
I will not be doing that though.

[Servant Avenger]

This bullshit is why my NP is one of the most powerful in the game. If Avenger didn't have a gladiate, he'd spam out and demotivate the game. That has to be prevented.

Thats a pretty impressive thought given my other power.

[Servant Avenger]

Suck me from the back

Watch out, Fortnite player getting edgy.

[Servant Avenger]

Zero indication given that you didn't scumread moon cancer

Zero words said in their defense

And you expect people to believe this?

Yes, I do.
Let's say I flip town. Does my word have merit?

[Servant Avenger]

My vote is that we elim Avenger. If he flips scum, cool.

If he flips town, then we all collectively ignore his iso, so he can be salty from the ghost chat, and maybe learn not to pull shit like this in future games

VOTE: Avenger

I mean, that's entirely your choice, I'm not really one to get salty over that though, more smug if anything.

[Servant Avenger]

This has like, nothing to do with saber's play. Can you explain why the claim is strong enough to change your earlier view about there being 1 scum and 1 town in an NP pairing?

Because Saber has an anti scum power.

[Servant Avenger]

You don't have to follow every single word Berserker says, but the way to win is to work TOGETHER because this is a fucking team game.

if you flip town I'll be salty about your play for sure.

The only way you would dislike my town flip is because you're scum let's be serious here.

[Servant Avenger]

Look at how quiet Avenger got when I mentioned his track record where he gives literally no indication he didn't scumread Moon Cancer

Quiet?
I have about 6 or more players posting to me...
Is this the best you can go with?

[Servant Avenger]

He can't even address it because he knows it's indefensible

It's irrelevant.
A post from long ago.

[Servant Avenger]

No, if you're actually town you're a fucking moron and completely worthless as a mafia player

Stop this now.
You can sit there and cry because someone has upset you then go down this line.
This is still only a game at the end if the day.

[Servant Avenger]

You don't have to follow every single word Berserker says, but the way to win is to work TOGETHER because this is a fucking team game.

if you flip town I'll be salty about your play for sure.

The only way you would dislike my town flip is because you're scum let's be serious here.

Why would scum dislike a town flip, you fucking idiot

I know I posted after this, so I'm going to confirm, this is your only warning.
Calm down with this shit.

[Servant Avenger]

This has like, nothing to do with saber's play. Can you explain why the claim is strong enough to change your earlier view about there being 1 scum and 1 town in an NP pairing?

Because Saber has an anti scum power.

Which of those abilities is anti-scum?

Giving NP power.
Scum having the power to give it to themselves is not happening.
Plus giving to anyone but the confirmed town is a scum claim, so it's a useless scum NP.

[Servant Avenger]

Look at how quiet Avenger got when I mentioned his track record where he gives literally no indication he didn't scumread Moon Cancer

Quiet?
I have about 6 or more players posting to me...
Is this the best you can go with?

Why do you keep dodging the fact you gave no indication you didn't scumread moon cancer and never tried to defend them?

I don't have anything to counter it, correct.
It doesn't mean I scum read them. The fact they have so little to work with is why I haven't mentioned them as opposed to where I suspected scum in Assassin and Saber, where I have obviously changed my mind by thos point.

[Servant Avenger]

Nah he wants foreigner flipped because there's appetite there, and then he gets flipped after

I don't care what order the flip is.

[Servant Avenger]

"Yeah, I am not gonna follow a town leader who everyone knows is town, instead I am going to declare that everyone should follow me"

omg. I thought foreigner was scummy, but if anything, this makes me want to never elim Foriegner just out of spite.

Well, that's your choice.
I think you may have mis understood what I was saying though.

[Servant Avenger]

B U L L S H I T

IT TOOK YOU THIS LONG TO COME UP WITH THIS TERRIBLE ANSWER? WHY DID YOU NEVER MENTION OR DISCUSS THEM AT ALL BEFORE NOW? IT CAN'T BE BECAUSE THEY HAD "TOO LITTLE CONTENT", BECAUSE 1.) PLENTY OF PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT THEM ANYWAY AND YOU COULD HAVE CHIMED IN TO SAY THAT AND 2.) THE CONTENT THEY HAVE POSTED IS SCUMMY AS FUCK. NO WAY THIS IS A REAL THOUGHT A TOWN PLAYER HAS.

Yeah because I haven't been constantly posting to others as well.
As least try if you want to discredit properly.

[Servant Avenger]

The way to do this is to talk about it, not force your will on the game thread. If you're town, you've not only made an inherently anti-town action but also actively prevented cohesion AND made yourself an easy target to miselim by doing it this way

Maybe so.
But I'm not backing down from something I feel so strongly to.

[Servant Avenger]

No.

Not for me at least.

This play proves that you don't have the greatest judgement

Okay, say I flip town, Moon flips town and foreigner flips scum.
Is my judgement still bad?

[Servant Avenger]

No, I think I got it.

You disagreed with the direction that Berserker was leading us, so you decided to take agency away from the entire player list, instead of, I don't know... talking to us.

Explaining your town read on Moon Cancer, or trying to push your scum read on Foreigner.

In my defense I claimed I was going.to use my day ability on foreigner if I felt the need to.
No one actually commented on that, so it obviously wasn't an issue then.

[Servant Avenger]

I refuse to believe any town player, even one fresh out of the newbie queue, could be this bad

You're still treading on breaking the site rules.
Attack the play not the player here. I've told you to stop, now do it.

[Servant Avenger]

Now when you say moon cancer's posts are not scummy, can you explain specifically why you don't think moon cancer's read on alter is scummy?

Because there's nothing for me to really go by on it.
I just don't read Moon as scummy though.

[Servant Avenger]

Yeah cause we didn't know it was going to be a fucking gladiate???????

What day powers would I do that would need to be used if votes shy away?

[Servant Avenger]

Me removing the gladiator shouldn't change the vote from me and foreigner.
Either I'm scum trying to survive or I'm right by doing so. So why would I remove the gladiator as either alignment there?

[Servant Avenger]

Yeah cause we didn't know it was going to be a fucking gladiate???????

What day powers would I do that would need to be used if votes shy away?

your post was super vague and confusing, and I read that as you were going to use your NP on foreigner to get them to stop talking to which I was like, weird but ok

Huh?
I said my 1st day power.
I said I had 2 powers and the NP (be it I think I said something like power up ability)
How would I be able to use my NP though?

[Servant Avenger]

Now when you say moon cancer's posts are not scummy, can you explain specifically why you don't think moon cancer's read on alter is scummy?

Because there's nothing for me to really go by on it.
I just don't read Moon as scummy though.

I want you to comment on moon's read on alter. And why you don't think it's scummy.

I don't understand the read. Why would that make it scummy?
Be it, Moon is probably right with the read.

[Servant Avenger]

Me removing the gladiator shouldn't change the vote from me and foreigner.
Either I'm scum trying to survive or I'm right by doing so. So why would I remove the gladiator as either alignment there?

ok so my vote stays

Shocker.

[Servant Avenger]

like I said, I was super confused but I didn't really care about your claim enough to figure out what you were actually saying. because my plan, and berserker's plan, and literally the whole townbloc's plan, was to solve in moon cancer/saber.

So you didn't care about my claim.
Well you do now at least

[Servant Avenger]

Now when you say moon cancer's posts are not scummy, can you explain specifically why you don't think moon cancer's read on alter is scummy?

Because there's nothing for me to really go by on it.
I just don't read Moon as scummy though.

I want you to comment on moon's read on alter. And why you don't think it's scummy.

I don't understand the read. Why would that make it scummy?
Be it, Moon is probably right with the read.

Moon cancer voted alter because he was getting "too townread" and then when asked for more reasons, referred everyone to their ISO, which only contained "Alter thinks too much and their reads have too much uncertainty" which is very much not how I would characterize Alter's posts. Explain why you think this is not scum-indicative.

Well it starts saying that Ego has too much uncertainty. That's different to just town read.
I'm not sure why I'd directly find this scummy rather than Null?

Just because someone has a reason which isn't great doesn't mean it's scummy. Otherwise foreigner's original scum read on me should be one the favoured. But yet, we're here.

[Servant Avenger]

so why is foreigner scummy but moon cancer isn't?

This is a loaded question.
I'm not ruling Moon out as scum. I do think they are mis lim bait though and I'd say most likely town from default.
Why am I going to vote where scum is voting though?

It's no different to you having a null read and me asking over and over why they aren't scum.

[Servant Avenger]

I mean, you've gladiated foreigner and diverted an elim away from moon cancer so it stands to reason that you think moon cancer isn't scummy. You also literally said you're not scumreading moon cancer. So I'm asking you what the difference is between the two that leads to scumreading foreigner but not moon cancer. how is that a loaded question?

why is moon cancer elimbait but foreigner isn't?


do you think moon cancer's wagon was scum-driven or that there were 2 or more scum on it?

scum bus each other all the time. are you saying you'd never willingly vote with the bus on scum?

foreigner isn't lim bait, let's not pretend here.
I cant discuss on all of it because of the limits Cabd added here but I know that they used a scummy tactical move to try and push me a scum.
Since then, there's no effort at all from limming me other than the occasional shade with no backing.

At least Moon stuck with the scum read there. Well until the end of it, bit that's ot the points your arguing.

The difference with these 2 is foreigner is actively shading and doing fuck all else where.
Moon is just not posting.
The wagon I haven't looked over for Moon to thought. I also agree, it could be scum bussing. My argument isn't that Moon is always town and this is what you are trying to push my comments as.
My comment is that Moon is probably town from default but I wouldn't consider that if it was vs a town read.

[Servant Avenger]

On a day with a double elimination, no less.

Hmm, I missed this.
It's irrelevant at this stage I guess though.

[Servant Avenger]

Well do as you like.
Personally Ego has made me just feel shit at this stage to really care what happens.

I removed the challenge just go with me.

[Servant Avenger]

No.

Not for me at least.

This play proves that you don't have the greatest judgement

Okay, say I flip town, Moon flips town and foreigner flips scum.
Is my judgement still bad?

@Avenger, if you are town, I would like to just say

Well, when you're wrong you're wrong I guess.
I still don't think I'm wrong on foreigner, but I'll leave it to play out for now.

[Servant Avenger]

Cursed Cupid Cleanser (C.C.C.) ~ **** ~ You may activate this Noble Phantasm during the day phase. When you do, you will grant * to all players you share a PT with, one per shared PT. You may additionally specify one of those players to be temporarily Macho for the night phase immediately after.

So this suggests that Saber is town even more so.
Otherwise it's strange for scum to be able to power each others NP like that.
I guess Moon's comes at a disadvantage of also buffing town players in a hood with them, but the macho part balances that out.

[Servant Avenger]

Going to need more from you than shrugging this off and moving on.
Why did you use your gladiate there?
Why did you pull it back so fast instead of arguing more for it?
What was your read on Moon Cancer at the time?

Why ignore me asking you this in 1291?

VOTE: Servant Avenger

I used it because I just think foreigner is scum. That's obvious.
You say I'm shrugging it off... I see it as I made a bad play, and I had a kicking about it from half the game all spamming at me.
I thought about it, decide it was a bad play as well and decided to leave you lot to action accordingly
My action wasn't because I think Moon is town, although I did by default, my action was purely from foreigner being scum. So I haven't really got Moon flipping scum to apologies for. I think this is the wrong focus that was pushed on rather that what I was obviously aiming for.
I'll take the back lash as needed though, I'm not going to say that it wasn't a bad play, and I'm not going to say that anyone listens to me unless I prove myself back into the game.

You can see this is a cop out attempt, but it's just my thought aspect to it.

I didn't ignore 1291 either, I didn't see it. There's a difference.

[Servant Avenger]

Assuming saber's ability is one-shot, granting one * is really not that strong and not that scum-sided if given to scum. I don't see why this should remove saber from someone's scumpool without other reasons to townread saber.

It's a pretty weak power at 1 shot regardless?
Again, whoever has it, even more so as just 1 shot has to target the confirmed as and when needed or they will be claiming scum.

You might as well just give scum a 1 shot fruit vendor at that point.

[Servant Avenger]

you gladiated right when moon cancer was about to die, so I would say the focus on your read on Moon cancer versus your read on foreigner is very justified. because if you're town, you must have thought your scumread on foreigner was so much stronger than everyone else's reasons to scumread moon cancer.

Okay, well I'm saying that's not the case.
I said it before hand, before Moon was the leading wagon that I was going to use it on foreigner.
Regardless if you understood what I was talking about, that alone shows that it wasn't because of Moon getting the votes.

[Servant Avenger]

is too committed too early to be a bus. I'd ask avenger to consider it this.

Noted.
I'll review again.

[Servant Avenger]

VOTE: foreigner
This is flipping scum.

The reason I gladiator here is

because I do that read Moon as scum.

Now when you say moon cancer's posts are not scummy, can you explain specifically why you don't think moon cancer's read on alter is scummy?

Because there's nothing for me to really go by on it.
I just don't read Moon as scummy though.

I mean, you've gladiated foreigner and diverted an elim away from moon cancer so it stands to reason that you think moon cancer isn't scummy. You also literally said you're not scumreading moon cancer. So I'm asking you what the difference is between the two that leads to scumreading foreigner but not moon cancer. how is that a loaded question?

why is moon cancer elimbait but foreigner isn't?


do you think moon cancer's wagon was scum-driven or that there were 2 or more scum on it?

scum bus each other all the time. are you saying you'd never willingly vote with the bus on scum?

foreigner isn't lim bait, let's not pretend here.
I cant discuss on all of it because of the limits Cabd added here but I know that they used a scummy tactical move to try and push me a scum.
Since then, there's no effort at all from limming me other than the occasional shade with no backing.

At least Moon stuck with the scum read there. Well until the end of it, bit that's ot the points your arguing.

The difference with these 2 is foreigner is actively shading and doing fuck all else where.
Moon is just not posting.
The wagon I haven't looked over for Moon to thought. I also agree, it could be scum bussing. My argument isn't that Moon is always town and this is what you are trying to push my comments as.
My comment is that Moon is probably town from default but I wouldn't consider that if it was vs a town read.

nice progression over two hours

This is a full on mis rep.
Anyone town reading Foreinger should consider that this is a blatant mis rep considering my next post I corrected my post error.

I do that read Moon as scum.

Because I do not*

[Servant Avenger]

Here is a proof that Avenger thoughts are artificial. First he hoped that 1234 mindsets will give him townreads, when it didn't work he dropped down facade and played the opposite way.

And this is just ew.
Regardless of alignment it's only natural to feel shit in that situation.

[Servant Avenger]

Caster felt the most subdued out of the four. So I guess them. When we get to emotional reading, I am garbage but I would suggest one of the four if not two.

This I can agree with.
Caster pinged me originally with this.

I have promised my vote to Berserker and I will follow him wherever he goes <3

Early game I liked Caster but this just felt like trying to not have an opinion so no negative feedback comes in on any town flips.

[Servant Avenger]

Weekend V/LA

I'll get on as I can.

[Servant Avenger]

Apparently Lancer is town.

[Servant Avenger]

Okay, not apparently, Lancer

is

town.

[Servant Avenger]

Is that a role related assessment?

Yes, just not from my role.

[Servant Avenger]

To clarify I received the information.

[Servant Avenger]

Mod confirmed town by PM?

Correct.

[Servant Avenger]

So someone used an ability and their result was sent to you. Okay. Who do you want to vote right now Avenger?

That's what I guess. I wouldn't assume Lancer targets me there, although I'm unsure to why anyone does since I was a potential vig shot.

My choice is still foreigner.
Failing that Caster.

VOTE: foreigner

[Servant Avenger]

because if it was just a *note* that you left them and wasn't worded as mod confirmed I'd more suspicious of it.

I can confirm it's not a message sent.
My first post today was seeing the message, my second post was me knowing it's legit.

Take it as you like, but Lancer can't be scum in any way.

[Servant Avenger]

second part of my guess is that I think scum knowing someone's identity or attributes or some specific other kind of information about the servant helps with the kill or gives some kind of bonus, which is why Cabd revealed the slot's identity as a penalty

The only thing with this part is that Sabre gave their name.
If they had something to suggest that knowing a name is a nerf or buff then I don't think Saber gives their name there encase town also have something.

[Servant Avenger]

Actually on that note I probably should ask avenger:

For the purposes of any role targeting you, are you considered aligned with the mafia? Or does that apply only to investigative roles meant to get a result on your alignment?

Investigative results only.
I'll be shown as either Mafia or a killer.
I'm town aligned so your power only fails on me if I'm actually scum.

[Servant Avenger]

Actually on that note I probably should ask avenger:

For the purposes of any role targeting you, are you considered aligned with the mafia? Or does that apply only to investigative roles meant to get a result on your alignment?

Investigative results only.
I'll be shown as either Mafia or a killer.
I'm town aligned so your power only fails on me if I'm actually scum.

This is an interesting way you worded this.

Do you believe your ability would work with investigative roles that don't exactly determine mafia/killer?

Would say, a Tracker always track you to the night kill?

No, it's only for Mafia/Killer results.
A tracker, watcher, motion sensor etc will always pick me up.

[Servant Avenger]

@Avenger, can you walk me through your trajectory on Saber? You went from initially not liking her for the master vote because "something seems off"...

Long story short.
I didn't rate Saber in the town picking stage and I liked Bezerkers posts. I suspected that scum may be aiming to the votes but I just don't see why, since losing a member is probably worse standardly regardless to what they gain.

When they claimed, their star ability was just like mine. Although mines slightly different and just puts them into the wind down phase concerning posts. I have another power to suggest that this may be more common among players, and that's why I commented to if only Saber had that power. My 3rd power doesn't make sense if only Saber has a silencing power on tip of mine. I think I showed that I was more towards there being multiple people than not in my post anyway.

I like the claim they gave as town and I didn't think scum would be able to boost each other so well. The motion detector I could have taken or left, it wasn't relevant to change my mind.
The flip of Moon didn't change that since they also had a buffing power.

Not really much else to it.

[Servant Avenger]

Mechanically speaking though, Avenger is still the best elimination for today.

Probably right.
I'm still in the mind set that Millers shouldn't be left.
The thought as well is if name revealing is a thing that helps scum in any way, then my name is revealed.

I'm not sure about the Foreigner claim or reaction here.
The only thought to me is that Shielder claimed to be targeted. If you were really a Watcher, do you target the person claiming the inno on another player, or the player that has an inno and would always be the NK over Beast?
The reaction seems to be more town like and I don't see why they are unmotivated now rather than when helping kill their 2 buddies? That doesn't line up.
But the night action doesn't have any town thought to me. Probably not much scum thought either, but town surely always target an inno there?

[Servant Avenger]

Would like an answer to this, Avenger.

Because you're thinking of Ninja, not Miller.
A Miller doesn't return a fake result to a motion detector or a tracker etc...

[Servant Avenger]

To clarify as your wording is strange for me to understand.
By me saying that a tracker and roles will always pick me up, that is if I do an action it will tell the truth and pick me up, not that a tracker will say that I did something when I didn't.

I thought that part was clear by me saying "No, it's only for Mafia/Killer results."

[Servant Avenger]

My full claim.

1 shot gladiator that can be cancelled. If cancelled it reveals my name (I wasn't sure if regardless).

I am informed that a particular name is not in the game. I can say it if wanted.

I can always post even in the wind down phase or if someone uses an ability on me.

After 3 stars I can use my NP to put someone into the wind down phase. This is immediately rather than Sabers 25 posts.

I'm pretty ill from my second covid jab but I'll try and check if you want the name revealed before I'm hammered.
I'm not sure what benefit to me it had other than maybe a fake claim.

[Servant Avenger]

Would've checked avenger but miller claim and Cabd wouldn't answer directly if a Miller would come up guilty automatically.

It would have shown killer.
I already said this earlier.

[Servant Avenger]

Your name was already revealed avenger, so no need.
Got it, in regards to the killer thing.

I wasn't talking about my name.

[Servant Avenger]

I don't understand what you are referring to? I never once said that something would clear me.

[Servant Avenger]

Yeah, my role could be proven that I can post when the pages are up. I made it clear it was at the end if the day (basically the cool down phase).
It's Anti scum because a role like that benefits town, not scum.

I didn't say this clears me though.

[Servant Avenger]

I have 2 additional roles though, 1 is either for or against scum (and low key ironic for me to get), and 1 is anti scum in this setup.
Both of these are also provable, the first at any point in the day and the second at the end of the day.

[Servant Avenger]

I'd say lim Rider.
If not, then its you.

Past that, Assassin or Alter Ego is the deep wolf.

Shall I hammer so I can go to sleep without thinking of checking here.

[Servant Avenger]

Any checks should always be on Ego to either get another confirmed or just 1 v 1 scum claim at that point.

[Servant Avenger]

Wait, which of those abilities results in you being a miller?

I second this question

Miller is a separate ability.
It's the only ability that was 100% already said though so I didn't feel the need to add that into my other post.

It doesn't say miller, but it's my interpretation on miller since the only thing concerning it is that I'm shown as a killer / Mafia. Nothing else.

[Servant Avenger]

Do I have these separated correctly?

That's correct.