Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Fin

[Gamma Emerald]

Why not.

VOTE: Gamma

HMMMMM

Why is this remotely suspicious to Gamma when he did the same thing shortly before.

I misread, what I thought was a smoking gun was just off timing. It’s still sus as hell though.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why Cakez vs. Dunnstral?

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunn

is a good person to chair imo but it's partially why he's been so absent. I don't think I'd get much from his flip. He feels LHF. Does someone have a meta-take?

My meta take on this is Dunn is lurky as scum and PR and there are no PRs this game so...

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Dunnstral
Pooky+Taly+Toog+Galron+Cakez+my vote makes 6

[Gamma Emerald]

Because that’s probably the best bet at a wagon that isn’t you or me?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well this is an interesting position. Looks like both the minority stances were right in a sense, funnily enough. My gut inclination is to shoot in my SRs but I ain’t gonna fuck around and find out. I want to consider my reads again with the truth of the chair in mind.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ll probably be able to get to this soon but to be clear, I’m not putting this at the top of my list of mafia priorities rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I think my first order of business should be reading the initial progression of things and figuring out whether anyone tried to ram a perception down the town’s throat at all.

[Gamma Emerald]

Thru page 3, Ulyana’s posting I’m ngl I had the suspicion that she might have been up to something wrt being informed of things, she’s kinda played inquirer a lot. But I’m not in the mood to just go apeshit and make a command decision off of minimal logic. That was only the first event, maybe later ones will give her better chance to prove herself. So I’m straight up calling that I will not be going for Ulyana here. And while I’m at it, the top TRs are obviously not getting chosen.
I don’t want to be in a position like I was in FGO 2 where I was basically afraid to be IDed as behind the Ruler vig because everyone was like “that was a stupid kill wtf”. And it’s even worse because I don’t have a fallback of being conftown, so I’m basically going to spill my damn guts here so even if there’s disagreement about my shot, at least I’m being open.

[Gamma Emerald]

From his perspective as well as in general those 3 aren’t great so far
Peta’s kinda felt reactive
Prism’s desire to be acquitted was a little skeevy and his reaction to being sussed was to claim joke which while technically valid doesn’t negate what actual tangible game thoughts he displayed with his joke
Ydrasse trying to jump in on the pockit fun felt a little overwrought

On this subject, the only thing I even close to stand by is my thoughts on peta, Ydrasse I think is town because she just doesn’t have the scum fatigue that bled through in PYP, and I’m straight up not bothering to think about Prism’s posts in a game sense by now. Gypyx has been here long enough that I feel okay just reading him alone.

Very random aside: I tend to periodically check post counts just to track how high I rank in them, I was at the top

before

this happened, imagine how far ahead I’m gonna be when this is done. I only intend to post when I have something real to say though, so no need to worry about that. The fact this was tacked onto another post should prove that.

[Gamma Emerald]

Back to linear reading

i am confused; it isn't about any post being fake not read, by 'role' i meant the result of the elimination, that is what pooky is theorizing about, someone receiving a 'king' role for the end of day, to choose an elimination, based on being chosen here

but prism was saying, maybe i will be acquitted! which would be like an ic i assume, which seems far far less likely to me, so was either not thinking along the same lines as pooky or was not revealing that they had similar thoughts which would be kinda !!!

This is honestly a bit of a mindmeld and I somehow missed it all this time
I wasn’t thinking the reward would be an IC, but I was thinking there would be actual tangible benefit to a player if they somehow got acquitted. So that’s fun, wish I’d known about this post wayyyy sooner.

My point was that Pooky's came after, and yes I was asleep. Some of your points this was irrelevant but there was one that had the order reversed.

The word acquitted came from trial, bur post 25 was jokingly pointing out that it may be an elimination or a setup for a further game. The last line having "perhaps win a prize!" was meant to be intentionally overly optimistic.

Okay I lied, I am looking at Prism’s posting in a game sense. This was probably the most on-the-money thing I’ve seen yet as to speculation of the chair’s importance. Problem is I can’t decide whether that’s damning or not. And like with Ulyana I’m not in a mood to act on something I can’t really suss out a full comprehension of on my own, although this relies more on the groupthink rather than interacting with the person who made the post (which would be futile anyway).

sorry i think i have explained very very poorly, i do not expect you to have pointed at the exact same thing as pooky,

it is like, if you want to be voted, you would have to think there is a more likely outcome than being eliminated, similar to pooky's, which seems somewhat plausible to me

On this point. I think scum were playing to avoid the chair entirely perhaps, as it’s basically a massive spotlight on you. And more directly related, this makes a lot of sense, and I think the ensuing tilt was unfounded. Acquittal requires deliberation, which thus means there’s also risk of an unfavorable outcome. Yet Prism towards the end of this page speaks about having a feeling that there was an always-favorable outcome that wasn’t a kingmaker. I have to deem that as a demerit as there’s nothing I can logically think of that would be without some catch or consequence.

I'm a VT (Yes, I know we're all VTs. I wouldn't want some people jumping on me for not claiming that as per my "meta" /grin).

I was scum in that game

wut

Uh we are not all VT

I'm a contestant :3

I’ve been consistently bothered by Saber posting in flavor terminology so intensely and I think it may be clicking why.
This feels a little pants-on-head, but my idea is the scum made sure to bone up on the flavor of the game and thus remember it better.

Uh we are not all VT

You're right. Anyone want to claim they aren't a VT?

I actually didn't read that part and was trying to draw a kill LMAO

I am not enthused by this continual dumbtelling coming from Dwlee. Past a certain point it feels staged.
And yes I’m aware this technically contradicts what I said about that Cephrir post before but these are on different wavelengths I’d say.

We should proceed as if whoever we are voting for will die

And if they don't die, we can do something different with the rest of the day

this is correct and any other speculation as to the outcome of the event is boring and a distraction

I staunchly dislike how adamant this is.

From his perspective as well as in general those 3 aren’t great so far
Peta’s kinda felt reactive
Prism’s desire to be acquitted was a little skeevy and his reaction to being sussed was to claim joke which while technically valid doesn’t negate what actual tangible game thoughts he displayed with his joke
Ydrasse trying to jump in on the pockit fun felt a little overwrought

yeah my initial Prism read was traaash
Could it have been right? Maybe, but not for

those

reasons.

[Gamma Emerald]

The exempt: Taly, Ydrasse, skitter30, Infinity 324, ulyana, Gypyx
The tbd: Saber, PookyTheMagicalBear, SirCakez, Toogeloo, Galron, Dunnstral
The watchlist: Dwlee99, Cephrir, petapan

Anyone in the top row I will not shoot. The bottom row is where I’d feel best shooting. Middle row is folks I need to suss out, or at least don’t want to kill yet but not enough to take them off the table. Names might move around the bottom two tiers a bit, but if a name is in the top tier expect it to stay there. These also aren’t in direct correlation with my reads because like, I’d rate ulya as in the next-to-bottom tier using my existing method, but desire to hash stuff out with her puts her squarely outside the realm of ever being someone I execute here.

Also, had the thought that things might get switched over after my shot where I don’t get to post during the vote to execute or spare me. So I’m glad I’ve already decided to put down just about everything I’m thinking if that ends up being the case.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think maybe we should give the throne to someone who

doesn't

want it

because scumbags know if this thing is good or not.

if it's good, scumbags will want it.

if it's bad, scumbags won't want it.

So if we give it to someone who wants it, it's more likely we give it to a scumbag if it's good, and a non-scumbag if it's bad.

I think maybe we should give the throne to someone who

doesn't

want it

because scumbags know if this thing is good or not.

if it's good, scumbags will want it.

if it's bad, scumbags won't want it.

So if we give it to someone who wants it, it's more likely we give it to a scumbag if it's good, and a non-scumbag if it's bad.

Yeah it seems like Pooky is on my wavelength that I expressed in response to 126 about how scum would’ve approached this.

Also I think I can pinpoint the page this post was on as where everything went to shit for me.

[Gamma Emerald]

its almost like he knows something we dont

More like I just dgaf
I’ve already basically checked out because I tried playing serious and it felt like everyone had a problem with that. So instead I’m just being Captain Capricious and doing whatever the fuck I want. And rn I want to fuck with people.

Looking back it’s clear what the catalyst for me going “fuck this game” was: it was Prism and peta barking at me for responses and answers. I basically had the reaction of “going with this is just going to make this game infinitely more exhausting than I’d like, so I’m going to defy it”. Turns out this game ended up being exhausting but not because of a million questions.

Also, another very random note that Pooky evoked: if a dance event comes up and we’re both alive for it, I want to pair with Cakez.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m shifting into ISO reading for probably the rest of my deliberation because just reading the game regularly is starting to feel like the well of info has dried
Saber’s early progression through the game seems pretty alright, I just feel like there was a lot of flowery content in the way of that and we also had the square-off about my TRs that set me against her. I’d like a chance to actually have a heart-to-heart, so she’s exempted from the kill.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I’m also good with exempting Cakez for a couple of reasons. Let’s get this out of the way first, yes I want to dance with him eventually. He also just, hasn’t felt scummy at all? I feel like I’m normally really good at picking out when his vibes are off. I managed to ID CL!Cakez off of a very loose grasp of his play in 3d20. Times where I’ve been off-track are probably mostly attributable to other factors.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m starting to feel weary, so I’ll finish this up after sleepy time

[Gamma Emerald]

alright back to the grind
pooky is still about where I last had him, he's towny pretty consistently but I'm kinda just wary because he's swindled me a good few times in the past, and none of his posting rises up as pure town posting like his vibe check thing from Radio Buzz. But it's enough to not go there.

[Gamma Emerald]

In a way it feels like Dunnstral has been playing a different game than the rest of us, his focus and thought process seems so out of line with what's going on. While that's probably scum-indicating, I also feel like it's something I again want to put up for discussion rather than acting on now.

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like Toog’s contributions up to now feel very hit-or-miss. The middle of his ISO kinda feels the worst. I’m not sure how much I think it needs litigating, hrrrrm. I’ll skip a final determination for now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Galron’s posting looks pretty not-okay looking at it with fresh eyes. I feel like from the beginning he was hoping to pocket me. I’ve had talks with a friend from this site that have led me to realize that it’s honestly very rare to see scum all against me. When I’m in the hot seat, it seems more often scum will take a broad set of stances on me. His play around my slot just feels very engineered to make a good impression on me overall.

So my list of names atp is down to (Cephrir, Dwlee, peta, Galron), with Toog as a maybe.

[Gamma Emerald]

Deciding to do ISOs on the non-Galron shot options as well
I really feel like Cephrir’s push on me doesn’t feel right. It feels like he’s stuck in a spot of

having

to push me, which kinda builds on the idea that scum were stancing up around me in different planned-out ways.

[Gamma Emerald]

On second thought I actually don’t want to shoot peta here because I feel like there’s things I want to discuss with him. I feel like my bad reaction to being questioned by him and Prism is partly caused by my plurality situation that I’ve mentioned before in other places (which I still need to work on my big document about).
When my parents are grilling me for answers I either don’t want to give or straight-up don’t have, one of my alters starts to come out, one that is currently known as Z (it has an actual name, as do most of the others, but until I find a name for the last one I need it for, that being M, I’m not going to use the full names in public content until the whole system is covered). Z is on record as not really having much access to my memories, and is prone to irritability under pressure. My thought process going fuzzy and me refusing to engage are clear indication that Z was at the wheel att. While on this subject, when I lashed out at Prism the last time, that was a different alter, known as D. D sometimes feels combined with M but is notably more aggressive while M is assertive.
I’m not trying to dodge any connection to my actions, Z and D are part of me and so I wrote those posts. But I feel like given how my interactions with peta have basically been off from what I think they should from the beginning, I want to try to change my approach, be more sympathetic towards the people I’ve been short with in the past. Obviously I can’t do anything wrt Prism now but I can give peta a fair shake.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not much to say about Dwlee’s ISO, still think the dumbtelling was bad, still not a fan of how he feels bent against my view of the game. The big thing on my mind wrt the second thing is he and Saber have felt very similar in that regard, and for a couple of reasons I think that makes Dwlee/Saber likely not S/S.

[Gamma Emerald]

After having given myself a framework, Toog!scum feels more within the realm of possibility. His play feels at least a little in line with what I’m expecting scum to have done here.

Gonna watch the anniversary screening of Evil Dead soon. Once I finish with that, I think it’s time to give someone the boot.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, had the thought that things might get switched over after my shot where I don’t get to post during the vote to execute or spare me. So I’m glad I’ve already decided to put down just about everything I’m thinking if that ends up being the case.

I reread the post describing the event and this isn’t the case, thank goodness.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I have my choice. The player I have in mind to execute seems like scum on a number of metrics, and I think should be somewhat well-received.
It’s Galron. I feel like the people who feel scummy based on positioning are probably sketchier than those that I just dislike how they’ve interfaced with my reads. And out of those who’ve seemed to have scummy positioning, Galron just keeps cropping up as the one that feels the most errant. From the word go it seems he wanted to act like he was in my corner, most likely because he’d seen how ferocious I’d been in Radio Buzz and in 2234. And since he was the other wagon that took off yesterday, I think it’s best we nix him here.
VOTE: Galron
I see no reason to put this off any further.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well that was unfortunate but I think inevitable. I have an idea about why Pooky was selected to die. It’s getting factored into my new decision though, so I’ll hold onto it until I’m ready to make the call.

[Gamma Emerald]

And whilst I shouldn’t take a full 24 hours I do think I should allow myself more time to think, so probably don’t expect anything to happen until probably tomorrow morning as I think my best bet is to sleep on this game for a bit.

[Gamma Emerald]

So I'm mainly between Dwlee and Cephrir here. Dwlee I think is sus because I think he saw the Akarin kill from amogus mafia and that ended up making him pick Pooky to die, as Pooky fits the bill that was given in the amogus scum pt for why Akarin died. Cephrir I think is the best choice for sticking to my guns because he is an SR for reasons close to those for Galron. Cephrir was also the only other person besides Galron to have what felt like solid support towards pushing him out, despite lack of votes there.
VOTE: Cephrir
I'm sticking to my guns, and I think I'd like to let Taly weigh in on the amogus thing before acting on it.

[Gamma Emerald]

I tried to be clear about who I wasn't shooting because I wanted to discuss. Which, since I'm not on mute rn, now is a great time to do so I'd say. I'll fetch a quick list of names of people I want to have pointed discussions with.
Also, Akarin was killed in amogus for being active and TRed. Aside from me, Pooky was the most active player, and even aside from the fact I was the one in the seat, I wasn't really that widely TRed at the time that call was made. Aside from that no one came really within striking distance of my post count.

[Gamma Emerald]

@ulyana

: I feel like the questioning you've been doing doesn't reflect so well in light of what the throne has been revealed to do. It feels like you've been trying to parse out feelings from people to determine who'd be a good choice for the chair. Can you explain your motives a bit?

@Saber

: I get how you thought my play was erratic in a way that felt tactical, but I can probably point to a few games where I've made sharp turns at critical moments as town. What I think I'm most interested in is your reads in general, because aside from your reads on me and Galron, those don't feel exactly clear rn. I've at least sussed out from your ISO that you TR Taly and ulyana.

@Dunnstral

: can you talk about why you've responded to certain things that you did and when you did so? I think that's the greatest bother for me about you currently.

@peta

: Let's take this from the top. I'm going to try to be more rational about being questioned. Do you still want answers to 359? Are there any other posts of yours you feel I've overlooked?

[Gamma Emerald]

no, gamma, i think the game has moved past me needing answers to something i asked 1400 posts ago that you already answered

I don't recall ever answering the first half
you felt reactive by the virtue of your posts mostly being responses to others, and I felt like that was indicative of trying to ride the waves rather than wanting to make them. That might have just been playstyle, but either way I feel like later on you progressed past being reactive.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, Akarin was killed in amogus for being active and TRed. Aside from me, Pooky was the most active player, and even aside from the fact I was the one in the seat, I wasn't really that widely TRed at the time that call was made. Aside from that no one came really within striking distance of my post count.

So you thought I may have killed Pooky because I read a game where someone was killed for what you think is a similar reason to why you think scum killed Pooky here? Moonlogic 100. I didn't read the scum chat, I didn't read the whole game, I skimmed some pages where they talked about their tasks and I looked at some of the role pms. You are vastly overestimating how much I read there

ngl I believe this
and agreed with peta, I'd like the ability to interface with the people I've called out towards

[Gamma Emerald]

@ulyana

: I feel like the questioning you've been doing doesn't reflect so well in light of what the throne has been revealed to do. It feels like you've been trying to parse out feelings from people to determine who'd be a good choice for the chair. Can you explain your motives a bit?

@Saber

: I get how you thought my play was erratic in a way that felt tactical, but I can probably point to a few games where I've made sharp turns at critical moments as town. What I think I'm most interested in is your reads in general, because aside from your reads on me and Galron, those don't feel exactly clear rn. I've at least sussed out from your ISO that you TR Taly and ulyana.

@Dunnstral

: can you talk about why you've responded to certain things that you did and when you did so? I think that's the greatest bother for me about you currently.

@peta

: Let's take this from the top. I'm going to try to be more rational about being questioned. Do you still want answers to 359? Are there any other posts of yours you feel I've overlooked?

?? my motives are to find the baddies talking about something the baddies possibly informed about a good way to possibly identify like ……

so your intent was to see who took something in a wrong direction that suggested extra knowledge? That feels reasonable if my reading is right

[Gamma Emerald]

that does track with what you said, yes
tbf those could have just been reads based on how willing they were to openly speculate too, they were the first ones to really express much thought at all on what the chair did
PEdit: what? I can't parse that last post

[Gamma Emerald]

@ulyana Those thoughts were probably disconnected tbh
your questioning people about their opinions on the chair's function doesn't really give info on who's good to put in it
I just thought those plays were perhaps related, though the exact thread is unclear rn

[Gamma Emerald]

it says they know more, that doesn't mean they know everything
maybe they get info a day (well, an event) in advance. The first event rolled directly into the second, and there's a benefit in the third for sparing here in the second. I'm gonna figure each event ties into the next in some way, and scum's knowledge at least includes that.

[Gamma Emerald]

my thinking the entire time has been scum knew it was a kingmaker vote, with strong belief they also knew about the vote to execute or spare the executioner afterwards. I don't believe they knew about the reward for sparing a town executioner, but I do think they know what the reward is now.

[Gamma Emerald]

my thinking the entire time has been scum knew it was a kingmaker vote, with strong belief they also knew about the vote to execute or spare the executioner afterwards. I don't believe they knew about the reward for sparing a town executioner, but I do think they know what the reward is now.

so you thought this and didn’t think OH!!!!!! when they killed pooky????

I don't think they had sabo info for the second event for the first event, I think each sabo only applies to what's going on at the time
the first event sabo was probably some way to deny someone the chair, whether it be by killing them or just veto'ing the vote.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Spare

Ask my input on anything,

Gamma

.

Um, okay, I did have some general things I wanted input on but I mostly was trying to make sense of my middling reads with the targeted questioning.
I don't think the idea I had about amogus mafia being a factor in the Pooky kill was right, but what do you make of it? I feel like you were the most widely and strongly TR player, so it can't be solely for that imo.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think they had sabo info for the second event for the first event, I think each sabo only applies to what's going on at the time
the first event sabo was probably some way to deny someone the chair, whether it be by killing them or just veto'ing the vote.

right but you said you think the mafia knew it was a kingmaker yes? and then when pooky was killed, this would be obvious explanation to you, yes? because pooky speculated at length about exactly this? but then this did not factor into any of your further thought with regards to who to choose???

I think killing someone for having an accurate guess as to one event would be premature. And like, Pooky only guessed at the kingmaker, not the "mercy or genocide" (I'm calling it that because honestly that feels more right than "execute or spare") vote afterward.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think maybe we should give the throne to someone who

doesn't

want it

because scumbags know if this thing is good or not.

if it's good, scumbags will want it.

if it's bad, scumbags won't want it.

So if we give it to someone who wants it, it's more likely we give it to a scumbag if it's good, and a non-scumbag if it's bad.

I think maybe we should give the throne to someone who

doesn't

want it

because scumbags know if this thing is good or not.

if it's good, scumbags will want it.

if it's bad, scumbags won't want it.

So if we give it to someone who wants it, it's more likely we give it to a scumbag if it's good, and a non-scumbag if it's bad.

Yeah it seems like Pooky is on my wavelength that I expressed in response to 126 about how scum would’ve approached this.

Also I think I can pinpoint the page this post was on as where everything went to shit for me.

Actually, I did post this, ulyana may have a point that between his idea about kingmaker being right and his thoughts lining up with mine, that's what made him scum's target.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay now I get what ulya is asking
On some level I probably cogitated that Pooky was town for his speculations, but I was kinda in a rush to make sure I made a well-informed execution. I doubt it would have changed much anyway. Scum probably had been keeping tabs on him from the beginning.

[Gamma Emerald]

2. Pooky was the first townie (assuming he is) to accurately predict the kingmakwe utility and the scum hated that.

so you also did not think, OH! pooky!town when reading the second event??

I think he is very likely town. But I'll let the flip say.

It would definitely be a bizarre gambit for scum to kill their own, but not impossible; theoretically.

That would be short term gain for long term loss IMO.

[Gamma Emerald]

maybe pooky is the ultimate bad guy and faked his own death so he can come back and surprise us in the twist ending finale




probably not but i wish that would happen

Spoiler:

[Gamma Emerald]

The consensus was that we were voting as if it was an elim

[Gamma Emerald]

i don't think pooky was killed because of mech spec lol


although he is shockingly good at guessing the twists in these roller coaster ride games


he was killed because he was highly motivated and obvious town who is capable of dominating a thread and often has good reads

it's an obvious and boring answer and i don't know that there's a lot of insight to be gleaned from it

Why the assumption that pooky was an intended target? This doesn't bode well for me, but what if they just didn't want me killed bc they knew I'm limbait and "another player will be executed" type thing happened?

So you think it was random?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the biggest issue with your actions rn is they’re textbook scum play. Scum deal in possibility, town deal in probability. You’re throwing out theories that don’t really hold water imo, and for what?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Dunnstral: can you talk about why you've responded to certain things that you did and when you did so? I think that's the greatest bother for me about you currently.

I haven't read the whole game. When I come into thread I try to respond to what I can, but not necessarily everything. I try to focus on the current votes and why things are happening.

Let me be more direct. Why did you respond to me pushing Ulyana? That felt like an odd thing to focus on.

[Gamma Emerald]

Eh, okay.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah it’s a 12-hour video but at least it’s finite.
This is my contribution to Pooky’s musical memorial service of sorts. It’s been a spot of comfort while I’ve grappled with my demons these past several days. Hopefully y’all enjoy it.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Galron
Vibe check.

[Gamma Emerald]

Trust these people until the end of time: Taly, Infinity, Skitter, Ydrasse, Sircakez
Good folks to keep around: Gypyx, Petapan
Could do with a touching-up: Dunnstral, Dwlee, Ulyana
Remove them from the premises: Saber, Galron, Toogeloo

I think I’m sitting somewhere around here?
FYI I kinda felt like Saber’s response to my question about the progression on me felt a little sus

[Gamma Emerald]

hm, anyone feeling any different about the spare now?

I haven't seen a benefit.

If a town-aligned Executioner is spared, there is an undisclosed benefit for town in the following game. You will not learn if this occurs.

It’s this sort of content that’s making me think Galron is scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

We won't know the benefit.

Trust these people until the end of time: Taly, Infinity, Skitter, Ydrasse, Sircakez
Good folks to keep around: Gypyx, Petapan
Could do with a touching-up: Dunnstral, Dwlee, Ulyana
Remove them from the premises: Saber, Galron, Toogeloo

I think I’m sitting somewhere around here?
FYI I kinda felt like Saber’s response to my question about the progression on me felt a little sus

I'd drop

Peta, Ydra, and Dunn

all down a tier.

idk about peta and Dunn, but Ydra I definitely feel like isn’t showing the same fatigue as she had in PYP, so unless between games she got a second wind, I don’t think she’s scum here

I'd drop Peta, Ydra, and Dunn all down a tier.

so you both think... sircakez is definitely town here?

Yeah pretty much
I feel like I’m pretty good at tone reading Cakez, as I’ve said before.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, I'm curious why you townread me. I feel that I've actively given you reasons to not trust me or for you to believe that I am taking you in poor faith.

It’s honestly similar logic to my Ydrasse TR. Your scumgame is kinda flat, and I feel like you’ve actually been pretty engaged.
When I read people, if I have a tell I consider reliable, I will utilize that tell at the expense of all others basically. So despite there being points where you could have been seen as not interacting honestly with me, I’m checking that against the fact that your WIM this game feels honest.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah pretty much
I feel like I’m pretty good at tone reading Cakez, as I’ve said before.

okay how do you feel about taly noting other disagreements with your list but ignoring that one even though taly has mentioned multiple times cakez being suspicious/in poe?

It just reads as he considered those the most egregious reads in my list. I can deem a read list acceptable while having nitpicks with it.

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma i appreciate the townread very much but also how am i not more fatigued here than i was in that game ;-;

You said in the scum PT you were tired of rolling scum and it made sense why your tone felt off early on
I haven’t seen that same sort of done-with-it aura this game

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, I'm curious why you townread me. I feel that I've actively given you reasons to not trust me or for you to believe that I am taking you in poor faith.

It’s honestly similar logic to my Ydrasse TR. Your scumgame is kinda flat, and I feel like you’ve actually been pretty engaged.
When I read people, if I have a tell I consider reliable, I will utilize that tell at the expense of all others basically. So despite there being points where you could have been seen as not interacting honestly with me, I’m checking that against the fact that your WIM this game feels honest.

What's the reliable tell with

Ydra

?

For Ydra, it’s just like, her tone feels way off when she’s faking things as scum. I thought it’d be harder to catch because she’s said she’s evolved and that’s true to an extent but PYP was proof that the tell hasn’t been completely burned. I was duped into thinking it was PP for a time in 5p but I eventually just couldn’t write off how Bee had been playing and the fact she was alive as claimed ascetic cop.

[Gamma Emerald]

After reading ulyana I'm getting more of a feeling from her similar to Radio Buzz where she has this holistic approach, and most others, esp me, are not seeing what she does and not listenting to her attempts at relating it.

I feel like I got her a little better when I started asking question during the mercy-or-genocide part
I just, don’t get why she still wants me dead, it seems?

[Gamma Emerald]

Sorry I’m a nerd and also execute/spare feels off to me

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ve been strongly TRing Ydra for a while now, why am I just now hearing this strong opposition

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s not what my read is about at all
It has to do with what she posts when she’s posting, activity level is irrelevant

[Gamma Emerald]

To be clear that wasn’t @ infinity specifically but I did want to address that if people were thinking that was my logic

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s not what my read is about at all
It has to do with what she posts when she’s posting, activity level is irrelevant

I think I asked earlier if ydrasse plays like this as town as a matter of course. Do you see the disengagement and beetlejuicing that I do?

Both of those are probably just playstyle things
I remember she beetlejuiced a lot in Radio Buzz

[Gamma Emerald]

also i think gypyx is p townie for him tbh

This probably

[Gamma Emerald]

Mountainous games are the worst. Trust issues suck.

What’s the issue
And like, it hard not having roles to fall back on but this isn’t straight mountainous, there’s mechanics going on.

[Gamma Emerald]

Trust these people until the end of time: Taly, Infinity, Skitter, Ydrasse
Good folks to keep around: Gypyx, Galron, Sircakez, Pooky
Could do with a touching-up: Saber, Toogeloo, Dwlee
Remove them from the premises: Cephrir, Dunnstral, Ulyana, Petapan

Since I’m not long for this world I may as well leave this as a parting gift.

I don't understand how I became someone good to keep around to an off with their head.

My rereading of things made it feel like you were pocketing me, with stuff like your comment about “bro you can’t quit!” kinda being one of the worst, the tone of that remark seems flat af and it reads as you wanting me around for your own ends. Further developments didn’t help what with you trying to call a heartfelt tribute to Pooky premature, it feels like you’ve passed the point of pretending to honestly engage and are starting to just go into nonsense mode. There’s probably some aspect of personal distaste I will admit.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why did Gamma shoot Cephrir instead of shoot Galron again?

Galron was my first choice, it was sabotaged.

[Gamma Emerald]

i mean we've seen that design recently in silent star i.e. "you were supposed to be voting town all along" so it definitely happens

I remember seeing something about mod being inspired by Silent Star for the design of Radio Buzz so this does feel in line with mod meta.

[Gamma Emerald]

hm, but one of the duelists dies, so we should just be aiming for s/s

I think I agree that we should be voting two scummy people into the duel but the question in my mind is “how much accountability can we force in the duel” and the most logical answer is “probably none” so I feel like that should be factored in but idk how rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m trying to think of ways to bend this event to town’s will and I’m drawing dead
In the first event there was a pretty narrow scope of what the chair could do. This one all we really know is there’s going to be a duel with a revolver, and that feels incredibly open to interpretation, though I don’t feel like I have the imagination to figure out what
I think the best bet is using Law of Conservation of Detail. The flavor says it’s a six-shooter, and that “the audience should recognize this game”. I think the most intuitive conclusion to what game you’d play with a six-shooter revolver is Russian Roulette. The question is how that’s integrated as a gameplay element and to what extent we can make scum have to give up ground through it. I don’t feel particularly equipped to answer those, so I’ll post this and open the floor.

[Gamma Emerald]

we should

try to choose two scums

because we know one of the chosen will die

like that's how we bend it to town's will

This is fair
But like, what sort of wolfy people should we put into the duel? Should we put in two people who seem similar or two that are different levels of wolfy (lurkscum, deepwolf, powerwolf are the main categories I can come up with)?

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually now that I think about it lurkscum does feel like the “right” choice
So I’d maybe say Dunnstral/Toog/Ydrasse are the best options from an objective POV
unwnd I need to see how he plays but I wouldn’t have advocated putting Galron in under this logic
Btw this isn’t “vote player a in, votes reset, and then we vote player b in”. Once a person gets hammered the second-place wagon gets hammered with them. So beware that probably.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm reading Cakez' ISO now and about 10-15 posts in I think he's scum

What are the rest of you doing lol

I also think he is scum

To be clear, I voted Gamma to E-1 when that vote was pretty much locked in. Gamma asked to be eliminated within an hour, and two people declared intent right after my vote.

Then we spent an extra 3 days actually doing the thing

How does that involve Cakez

[Gamma Emerald]

But like, what sort of wolfy people should we put into the duel? Should we put in two people who seem similar or two that are different levels of wolfy (lurkscum, deepwolf, powerwolf are the main categories I can come up with)?

we should put the wolfiest into the duel? and probably give the gun to the less wolfy of the two??

what do you currently think

the benefit we got may be?

I feel like it’d be very subtle, maybe it’s a thing we’d never know a change if we weren’t told one existed. The best bet to me is some sort of change in the conditions of the duel? The description of the event says that at least one will not survive, maybe the reward is a mutually assured destruction option?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm just preemptively explaining why I wasn't voting cakez at the end of day since unwnd replaced in and was asking about it.

No one was really voting Cakez at EoD, although it was brought up which is kinda why I think he hammered
The hammer is like, the one thing I could see as suspicious in his play, and I’m pretty sure he’s got a track record of making scummy moves as town. I think Betrayal mafia is one of the key moments where I got misled by him doing something like that.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm reading Cakez' ISO now and about 10-15 posts in I think he's scum

What are the rest of you doing lol

uh i strongly disagree with u

Elaborate? His early ISO just from skim had a ton of landmines. My readrate on Cakez is pretty decent as well. He spent a lot of time being in that mode of 'ugh need to catch up' where he makes idle comments while not really interfering with what's going on.

Why is the catch up thing a sticking point for you
I don’t exactly feel inclined to lean on that at this exact moment

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it will be more clear whether we've received a benefit when we know more about the event.

I don’t think the mod fool enough to make it something that would even be apparent with that info. Her emphasis seems to be on not retroactively modspewing the alignment of the person in the chair. I think you’re right it’ll be less nebulous when the event is known but not to the degree of certainty your post seems to convey.

[Gamma Emerald]

Elaborate? His early ISO just from skim had a ton of landmines. My readrate on Cakez is pretty decent as well. He spent a lot of time being in that mode of 'ugh need to catch up' where he makes idle comments while not really interfering with what's going on.

weird he always feels like this to me

I think he's becoming more self-aware, but there's a certain requirement I look for. Yes Cakez is always somewhat behind, but I think his usage of 'this sucks' and 'this doesn't black and white scenario picking is more fitting of his scum behavior where he can't fake a read progression.

I’m actually open to hearing about this tbh, can you give some example town/scum games that illustrate that sort of posting being present as scum/absent as town?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it will be more clear whether we've received a benefit when we know more about the event.

Unless knowing that the second person voted in "starts with the gun" is the benefit?

That actually makes some sense, that felt completely natural to include but on reflection wasn’t mandatory

[Gamma Emerald]

you were scumreading gamma
voted galron to prove a point and make a gamma counterwagon

the fact that you don't remember this is surface-level scummy but honestly probably more indicative of the fact that you're very out of it


~
also why are the people pushing you scum?

who is that @

How do we get 2 wolves into the duel? The person with the majority goes in, then the second majority goes in. The odds of both being wolves is like near zero considering a third of us are wolves.

we discuss at length and refuse to put two players who may be individually scummy but unlikely to be partnered together

like does anyone thing unwnd and peta are both mafia here? so they should obviously not be chosen together

ngl I think the opposite might be advisable: we put in two people who are very likely SvT, and we end up with either dead scum or a solid lead on one

[Gamma Emerald]

@dunn who is scum (besides cakez)

Probably all the lurkers except for me. No shame.

This thought has crossed my mind, though I feel like at least one would be trying to shake that label, which might fit Cakez
I think I may want Cakez as the second in the duel because I’m starting to see reasons to SR him but also don’t feel like I’m seeing stuff that contradicts what I had seen in him

[Gamma Emerald]

@dunn who is scum (besides cakez)

Probably all the lurkers except for me. No shame.

Seems legit. Town just cannibalizing itself?

Wouldn’t that point to you though?

[Gamma Emerald]

Not every mafia game needs to be painful

How does that even relate
You seem consistently tone-deaf this game and I have no idea what that means for you

[Gamma Emerald]

If scum knew the chair was going to be used to make executions, shouldn't we be looking for people who tried to prevent Gamma from getting the chair, not the ones trying to give him the chair, assuming he is town?

I think being for or against me being in the chair is irrelevant, what’s more important is how they approached me. If I was reading solely based on that I feel like Ulyana would definitely look the worst. When I started expressing suspicion towards her her immediate paranoia was that I was angling to take a shot on her. Obviously that wasn’t the case, this wasn’t a game where I could just do that.

[Gamma Emerald]

You agreed with Skitter that I should be focusing on Galron's wagon instead?

it seems more likely that town!you would focus on sorting the players voting your slot to find mafias then focusing on the opposing wagon which contained town that you are aware of like it's a very odd approach

Eh, I think this rote expectation of what a player should do is kinda banal
I’ll dive into this later as part of something else but for now just know I don’t think reading a played for what the should be doing is a great look

[Gamma Emerald]

If scum knew the chair was going to be used to make executions, shouldn't we be looking for people who tried to prevent Gamma from getting the chair, not the ones trying to give him the chair, assuming he is town?

I think being for or against me being in the chair is irrelevant, what’s more important is how they approached me. If I was reading solely based on that I feel like Ulyana would definitely look the worst. When I started expressing suspicion towards her her immediate paranoia was that I was angling to take a shot on her. Obviously that wasn’t the case, this wasn’t a game where I could just do that.

do you really think scum!you's first plan of action after i expressed that it felt like you may have been angling to shoot me would be to publicly shoot me (with the after the sabotage shot i assume)? like i don't understand

I feel like if I was scum and you were actually a thorn in my side at that point I could have just made you the one killed in the sabotage? I wouldn’t have even had to rationalize that
But like, neither of us could have really known that was an option during D1?

[Gamma Emerald]

You agreed with Skitter that I should be focusing on Galron's wagon instead?

it seems more likely that town!you would focus on sorting the players voting your slot to find mafias then focusing on the opposing wagon which contained town that you are aware of like it's a very odd approach

Eh, I think this rote expectation of what a player should do is kinda banal
I’ll dive into this later as part of something else but for now just know I don’t think reading a played for what the should be doing is a great look

so you think it is common for a player to replace into a slot go find wagons from the past to start their search for scums and start with the wagon they were on that they know to have contained two other towns when they were the opposing wagon? that doesn't seem at all strange to you?

Sure it’s strange but I try to not equate strange with scummy
What do you think unwnd!scum hopes to accomplish by immediately hunting scum on the counterwagon to him? It’s pretty plain from what he’s post unwnd thought I was town while he was spectating

@unwnd

what was your impression of Galron from when you were spectating?

[Gamma Emerald]

But like, neither of us could have really known that was an option during D1?

but you think mafia had access to this information as you said previously when we discussed it, thus

you know i am town?

I think mafia knew the chair was an execution D1, not that they’d have knowledge they could unilaterally eject someone from the game
I already specified my theory was the advance knowledge was for events and not sabotages

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes but with the knowledge that I would be judged for it

[Gamma Emerald]

but you say there is no way either of us could have had that information,

I mean the part about the sabotage, we couldn’t have known about

[Gamma Emerald]

As a driveby thought

Has Shiki ever been scum

I townread her tonally pretty hard but dunno if she has depth

she was scum in student council as Tracy flick

[Gamma Emerald]

It ain't me

the song that i thought of was this one

I thought of this one but that’s also fair

[Gamma Emerald]

maybe it could b gamma. idk

Gamma would be playing like a star right now

I mean yeah his name is Gamma but like. That confessional after he was chosen just screamed to me as town

what’s my name got to do with things

[Gamma Emerald]

LUL

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

reread the last 40ish posts from infinity's iso as a check and think she's fine. i don't find it, like, whelmingly towny and she's maybe faded a bit in terms of actively doing things but nothing particularly looks bad in there.


similarly took a look at saber because she was a blind spot for me and wanted to check that. posting styl is very formal which i'm always going to struggle with, on the one had she looks the part of a townie and on the other i just always find posts that are more carefully constructed to be suspicious. has mostly focused attention on the popular targets in gamma and galron but her reasons there have made sense they haven't been, like, scummy pushing necessarily. maybe a bit narrow focused but like i said earlier, looks the part. probably wouldn't be able to read without flips, wouldn't want to flip today

cakez's early game is bad but i think he gets better later. there is some stuff from him i think is maybe towny that i don't feel like going into. i don't think the reasons for suspecting him (lack of nuance, being behind on the game) are really alignment indicative. do want to see more from him but wouldn't really fade at this point in time

I like these reads rn
the cakez read also kinda lines up with my thoughts

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Toogeloo
As you wish.

[Gamma Emerald]

you had said it was maybe town indicative in 1301?

One thing to consider is 1301 was during event 1, when we had very little to go on

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyway it looks like general consensus is on Toog being in the duel, who else should we put in?

[Gamma Emerald]

you had said it was maybe town indicative in 1301?

One thing to consider is 1301 was during event 1, when we had very little to go on

how would this be applicable in this situation?

I’m saying perhaps Gypyx’s perspective on the game changed in a way that makes it feel different

@gypyx

do you think your idea of where scum is has changed due to knowing the true nature of the chair?

[Gamma Emerald]

whose consensus

It feels like general idea of where scum is at is in the less actives, Toog fits that, which I think a few have noted, and people have also voiced suspicion on him based on other things
Maybe I’m just filling in a lot of spaces with the same few names though

[Gamma Emerald]

there has been more expressed suspicion of other slots so being like okay toogeloo is one who’s the other? seems so wild to me

Like who?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay on review it’s only really been me peta and just recently Gypyx voicing suspicion on Toog

[Gamma Emerald]

(top quote) recognizing when to stop overthinking things

Eh idk about this one, she was bent out of shape for a while about how I’d been acting
Also, saber is using female pronouns

[Gamma Emerald]

wait what

whose consensus

Is this @ me
I already explained I kinda echo chamber’d myself

[Gamma Emerald]

skirting around it

Who do you see as doing this rn

[Gamma Emerald]

holding onto the read means that a) i'm claiming pets and gypyx are both scum but i townread peta or b) gypyx is scummy for having a thought process that town also had which is pretty questionable

fair enough

Mindmelding is not as much of a towntell as the memes would suggest

[Gamma Emerald]

People don't want me in the events because I might just do something, "random."

I don’t think anyone has this stance

[Gamma Emerald]

wait what

whose consensus

Is this @ me
I already explained I kinda echo chamber’d myself

no it was me agreeing with ulayana's reaction

Then it’s still technically directed at me because she was responding to me

[Gamma Emerald]

ulyana
Ydrasse
SirCakez
Infinity 324
Toogeloo
Dunnstral

Here's a list of people I'd be cool shooting each other today. I vaguely remember townreading the other people the last time I was actually thinking about the game, but I don't feel super confident in this poe.

hm,

Tbh I kinda wanna look at progression on the slots that have since exited his PoE since his list of 9 earlier

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh I kinda wanna look at progression on the slots that have since exited his PoE since his list of 9 earlier

*their

it is like, mm, nevermind, like the i got townpings from others so you can die! is just very frustrating regardless of dwlee alignment

sorry

[Gamma Emerald]

skirting around it

Who do you see as doing this rn

A lot of people. Taly? Cakez? Toog? Saber? even Shiki honestly

Okay
Do you think any of them are sus for it?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay so I went to explain my townreads but it's literally all vibes I remember from over a weekend ago and not like an analysis of anything. I'd just be telling you I like all of them tonally or on a gut level with how they're approaching the thread

Okay, why’d the people who fell out of your PoE fall out? I vaguely find the sticking to gut feelings towny but it needs due process imo

[Gamma Emerald]

like it felt like lights were off and i could relate to that

Can you clarify what “lights were off” means?

[Gamma Emerald]

holding onto the read means that a) i'm claiming pets and gypyx are both scum but i townread peta or b) gypyx is scummy for having a thought process that town also had which is pretty questionable

fair enough

Mindmelding is not as much of a towntell as the memes would suggest

?

Was kinda responding to infinity through your post, saying just because two people share thought process doesn’t mean they share alignment

[Gamma Emerald]

You give me a flip I want and you'll see that more

it hard to give to this because what i already laid out like you have to be TOWN upfront and the flip you want has to be NOT TOWN

I would like Infinity/Ydra

No.

[Gamma Emerald]

it's not just you specifically

What team do you see peta as a part of, and why does that team have extra incentive to kill Pooky?

[Gamma Emerald]

SHOW ME YOUR GOOD GRACE!!!!!

Ydrasse is TOWM

[Gamma Emerald]

QUOTE THE OLIVE BRANCHES IN THIS UNWND

COME ON NOW.

Okay I actually read the quotes in this post and they weren’t the type of content I was entirely expecting maybe? If unwnd was extending fake olive branches, I’d expect to see stuff like “I want you to do xyz but until then I can’t trust you”, stuff that sounds like being open to having your mind changed but deep down you expect the person won’t be able to manage it. It’s a move town or scum can do but Ydrasse’s reaction to it feels genuinely town

[Gamma Emerald]

infinity just seems so absent and uninfluential it's really weird and makes me think they are scum too

Thats kinda just how she plays ?

[Gamma Emerald]

why do you feel the need to keep saying this?

Unfiltered take: he’s being self-conscious because he himself is behind and if he sideswipes the points on you it maybe makes him look better
Not sure what that exactly says about him because that was partially stream-of-consciousness, first blush thought is it’s a little scummy seeing the words I strung together

[Gamma Emerald]

I've always felt a bit odd that Gypyx was such a stark contrast from Prism in terms of a Gamma read. Surprised at how quickly that soothed Gamma of the slot. They seem to mindmeld but I don't know what they are actually mindmelding on.

Furthermore, I don't think a Ceph read from Gamma was much fleshed out prior to the shot.

I wasn’t TRing Gypyx for switching the slot’s approach to me; I’ve actually nailed scum recently for that exact play. What I liked was him coming into a slot that was well-received and not seeming like he was lazing about on those prior reads.
Idk what I can really say about Ceph that hasn’t been said already. I ended up shooting him because he was kinda similar in how I perceived him to how I perceived Galron. So like, yeah the read wasn’t that fleshed out, but I also felt like shooting Dwlee was the wrong option in the moment out of my leading suspects, and given he’s kinda towning it up now, it seems like an even worse shot in retrospect. The only other slot I even had in consideration was Toog, but I didn’t feel like I had a strong cause to take him out of the game. Maybe I should have, though, because it feels like that’s where scum would absolutely want to be.

[Gamma Emerald]

The resolution is that I flip green and I feel like shit because it's literally part of my job as town to not get mislimmed. I take that personal at a game level and I'm annoyed by this flip but not to the point where I'd hate any of you. It's just like what the fuck do I do? lol

I feel you on this a little but I kinda feel like the amount of skin you actually have in the game doesn’t really align with your feelings here. You replaced into a slot that wasn’t favorable, if I were in your shoes I’d probably feel a little bad I couldn’t turn things around but I’d accept that it’s not like the lim was solely because I didn’t do my part.

[Gamma Emerald]

and like, honestly? if you want me to call on my experience of you as scum?

i DO think that this is a little scummy. maybe i'm tunneled now on the first thing that feels "real" to me, but, when we were both scum the pressure was pushed away by more emotive posting.

i don't think it's fake emotion but like. i think it could be you using it a certain way.

This feels exceptionally keen, I just noted unwnd’s feelings matched my own in a certain general sense, and this seems like the right way to read

my

emotionality.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not and like

The outcome is the same. I said it before. I'm not being smug about it either. Galron was already being mounted by someone with a decent amount of pull and I'm not in my comfort zone yet. I really want a flip and I was trying to work angles so I could properly get into this game. I'm a little miffed I won't get the chance if people tinfoil onto me because A) I like the playerlist B) The setup seems interested C) I will feel useless in the grander scheme of things as Galron was just limbait.

You getting voted into the duel isn’t the end though?

[Gamma Emerald]

I mention 'hey what about Cakez/Saber they're scummy'

I get feedback of 'nah don't agree' from most people. I think I would still want those two? But I'm

literally

not in a position to be calling shots like that and I'm not egotistic enough to believe I am. I went to Infinity/You as a secondary because you were a topic I wanted more focus on and I do have gut reasons to not really like Infinity. Maybe it's my bad the way I startled you but damn. If my words are coming off ineffective I will try my best to pool everything together and start over.

Godddd I feel this so much. I feel personally responsible for part of this because I know my response to your Ydra/Infinity suggestion was a pretty blunt refusal but I do feel like those are TRs I want to stick with (though to be fair there’s some variation in the confidence of my top tier of TRs, but not enough to really feel like creating separate sets)
I kinda feel like what I’d most like to see is you just giving takes on a bunch of slots individually, because I think in general the “suggest this pairing of players to go into the duel unprompted” thing is just really bad for optics. You commented about not being egotistical enough to think you can force a pair into the duel, so what’s the goal of trying what feels like exactly that?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay so I went to explain my townreads but it's literally all vibes I remember from over a weekend ago and not like an analysis of anything. I'd just be telling you I like all of them tonally or on a gut level with how they're approaching the thread

Okay, why’d the people who fell out of your PoE fall out? I vaguely find the sticking to gut feelings towny but it needs due process imo

Like who

Cephrir?
petapan?
Ydrasse
SirCakez
skitter30
Infinity 324
Toogeloo
Galron
Dunnstral

Question mark means it's like okay to kill them but I'm leaning towards not

ulyana
Ydrasse
SirCakez
Infinity 324
Toogeloo
Dunnstral

Here's a list of people I'd be cool shooting each other today. I vaguely remember townreading the other people the last time I was actually thinking about the game, but I don't feel super confident in this poe.

Looking at these two
Ulyana was added in, while peta, skitter, and Galron (now unwnd) got removed

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait I think it's possible the people who get the gun can shoot anyone. And if the first person with gun doesn't shoot the other person then they also get a gun

the mod post says someone in the duel will die, this theory doesn’t feel conducive to that?
Also a part of me wants to give Cakez/unwnd their wish of going after each other by voting them both into the duel

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait I think it's possible the people who get the gun can shoot anyone. And if the first person with gun doesn't shoot the other person then they also get a gun

if this was the case then the second person would have to shoot the first because one of them dies we know that

True !

Tbh I think this would actually be doable where if neither duelist shoots the other, both of them die
So they can make a hero shot with the knowledge that they die as a direct result

[Gamma Emerald]

like it felt like lights were off and i could relate to that

Can you clarify what “lights were off” means?

it is like,

sometimes i am very excited for a game almost always if i sign up and stay signed up i am very much excited to be playing it

but then the game starts and i flip the switch to turn on the lights and the lights do not come on

and it feels like i can't make sense of anything and all of my thoughts are like 'yup they are a player in this game'

and then others are like 'she must be a scums!' or worse they are like why don't you just try flipping that switch again it's right there and i am like that's not how lights work

Okay so it basically means the spirit isn’t there
When you first used it this game I thought it was meant in a way of “the lights aren’t on you”, akin to this trope.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma/Saber/Skitter/Gypyx

have good towncases but I feel like I'm reading another game than them.

I don’t get how this meant we were kinda making/watching you spiral?

[Gamma Emerald]

I find Gypyx a hell of a lot more likely to be town rn after considering the emotions of his predecessor on a deeper level.

[Gamma Emerald]

Unwnd what is your scumpool rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Unwnd what is your scumpool rn

I don't feel confident in giving something definitive

Just spit something out
I feel bad that you’re in this position but I don’t feel okay veto’ing you getting voted in, so instead I’m allowing you to pick a name to get voted in with you, I’d very much like if you didn’t pick someone I TR but if you firmly believe I’m wrong on someone I’m willing to listen, while I call it Cabd Clause you were also part of the hydra that made the comment that made that “a thing”. So I’m kinda willing to lend you my ear in that sense more than some others.

[Gamma Emerald]

The least I can bargain is that I would still love to flip Saber/Cakez

I would say at one scum there, confidently

But matching any further doesn't seem proper

Okay, this is workable
If you+me vote one of them that’ll change things so they’re set to be part of the duel over Toog.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Saber
I am okay with this.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ll get into my actual issue in a second, but tbh I’m mostly just trying to allow unwnd to have a fair chance at a flip he wants rn

[Gamma Emerald]

It was less about it being tactical, and more about it feeling unnatural.

My issue rn kinda lies with this comment. I feel like it’s a bit revisionist history given pushing me is no longer the in mode thing to do. Before this I distinctly recall you saying when I was switching things up it felt to you like I was scum seeing my current approach wasn’t working and trying something new. That is essentially being tactical about switching up my play. And yet you nitpick my word choice like this, it feels incredibly concerning, like you’re trying to detach yourself from the push on me you had before.

[Gamma Emerald]

unwnd still at e-1 and infinity moving the default second duelist off herself onto saber

Pretty sure my vote had already moved it?

[Gamma Emerald]

It was less about it being tactical, and more about it feeling unnatural.

My issue rn kinda lies with this comment. I feel like it’s a bit revisionist history given pushing me is no longer the in mode thing to do. Before this I distinctly recall you saying when I was switching things up it felt to you like I was scum seeing my current approach wasn’t working and trying something new. That is essentially being tactical about switching up my play. And yet you nitpick my word choice like this, it feels incredibly concerning, like you’re trying to detach yourself from the push on me you had before.

Yes, it was both. My point was that your shifts in attitude seemed unnatural, which is the main way to tell whether they're from a stagehand or contestant. It can only be theorised whether they're actually tactical because they didn't even go well for you. For example, your acting like a jester and then turning on Prism only seemed to attract more heat on you, so saying it's a stagehand tactic is iffy since you'd be actively pursuing bad tactics. I'd prefer to look at whether it was actually natural for you start acting those ways when you did.

This sounds alright btw

[Gamma Emerald]

like everyone slightly moving the second duelist while not really making it clear they are is suspicious yeah? and how everyone is ignoring what happened last night from toog unwnd vote on is very very confusing

what is it you want to be acknowledged

toog votes unwnd to e-2 when toog is the most likely other duelist, then unwnd selfvotes to e-1 when toog/unwnd would be the duelists, then gamma moves the second duelist off of toogeloo while asking unwnd who second duelist should be?? which just doesn't make any sense when we are trying to have two mafias in the duel,

I see what ulyana means. If we're aiming to get 2 stagehands inside the duel, we shouldn't be allowing 1 duelist to pick the other since a stagehand isn't going to pick another stagehand to include.

I don’t want to put someone unwnd has no desire to flip in there with him, because as I see things he feels like town but it’s hard to justify not putting him in the duel with how he’s acted. So my philosophy is to make the move that gives him the best opportunity to reveal his own alignment if he survives. The way to do that is clearly to give him a chance at a flip he wants.

[Gamma Emerald]

unwnd still at e-1 and infinity moving the default second duelist off herself onto saber

Pretty sure my vote had already moved it?

nope your vote moved it from toogeloo onto infinity

I don’t recall infinity having 2 votes when I did that

[Gamma Emerald]

all of the non-unwnd parties with votes had 1 and the one on infinity was oldest

Toog had 2 though before I switched, so it was still set to Toog I think?

[Gamma Emerald]

I knew what I was doing, I think you're the one who's confused about how plurality works

[Gamma Emerald]

iirc how it's determined is tied wagons are resolved by which had more votes more recently
Toog going from leading at 2 to tied at 1 would still make Toog the runner-up in that scenario

how do you read unwnd/toog, anyway?

[Gamma Emerald]

Toog is honestly kinda just riding hell out of my blind spot if he's scum, I keep feeling more intent on making other things happen

@unwnd

what is your feelings on Toog atm? You tilted in response to him voting you when he was the runner-up, I feel like that's a bit of a weird reaction?

[Gamma Emerald]

That was a derp because I'd thought Saber had an existing vote that I'd previously recognized as not being there

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do people think the two duelists will shoot at each other?

the mod post says one player will die
firing at each other makes the most sense to make that happen
the only other world I can see where that'd be certain is the one I theorized about in response to dwlee where they both have free reign but if a shooter doesn't kill the opponent they're guaranteed to die after the event (if first shooter kills the second, the second can't fire, otherwise the second either kills the first, or kills a second person outside of it and makes it so both duelists die)

[Gamma Emerald]

More confident in Dwlee because Gypyx is (Prism) slot but I digress.

We're getting somewhere.

Why is this?

[Gamma Emerald]

Everyone has so many town reads.

That a problem?

[Gamma Emerald]

Taly is a big question mark for me because they don't fit in my mind. This is a curious (?) where I don't think they're townie but also not null. They're a hard elimination and in my absolute tinfoil paranoia I think they're being protected by scum. I have less on the motivations of why, but I feel their presence to not be something that relieves me. Maybe it's their nature to weird, but I can't townread weird because something tells me that Taly is probably decent at his own weirdness and using it as a means to be townread. There's nothing entirely wrong with his approach but that alone makes me question because it is presented in such a processed and orderly manner where every appearance by him is very deliberate. It would be townie in another game but not this one, and not based on the events that have happened.

Expect a rebuttal on this in about 24 hours maximum

[Gamma Emerald]

I put townies in quotations because I don't think this would be so difficult if the team weren't involved. I mean, I guess that's obvious. My slot (Galron) was chosen by Gamma and the Stagehands intervened and killed off Pooky. Right now I am almost certain that Gamma would not chose to execute a (Townie) just to have his own team disagree and sabotage the event when he has control. Gamma is certifiably town for that alone. So what am I to think about the fact (Galron) was spared over Pooky? Not much, because nobody else seems to care. That leaves me a bit biased and feeling like I shouldn't compromise with people who can't see that Galron is not a big enough player (no offense) for Stagehands to waste one of their sabotages on. Were they afraid of clearing Gamma? Doesn't seem so because the sabotage itself already clears him in my mind.

hm,

i don't really get what you're saying here, it is like, if gamma is mafia gamma would have chosen galron knowing his team had sabotaged it to kill pooky right? so it would have been to make your slot look bad and because they thought could get galron eliminated in the future? not like chose galron to be eliminated got overruled by team? like that doesn't really make sense?

if gamma is mafia the sabotage would have been to kill pooky and an additional town, if gamma is town the sabotage would have been to kill pooky and potentially to protect galron or because they thought gamma wouldn't shoot mafia, which would have been a correct assumption on their part were this the case based on gamma then shooting cephrir

I do feel like that theory about the sabotage making me town is a little half-baked, but I see that as a bit of a towntell

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think we should assume the scum team sabotaged after the target was chosen, I think it was selected before that. So if gamma is town I don't think the sabotage actually says anything about galron's alignment. Also, I'll do this for Peta
VOTE: Cakez
This vote is sort of completely hypocritical cause the reasons Peta are suggesting here are also just how I've been playing so I'm not sure what the difference is to him but sure

Yeah I think it was basically instant so if scum sabotaged because of who I suspected that means they didn’t want someone in (Toog, Galron/unwnd, Ceph, Dwlee) dead, but it’s more likely they just wanted to kill a player who they felt they couldn’t mislim

[Gamma Emerald]

Like what evidence do you think points to the sabotage being selected AFTER Gamma made his choice?

Yeah this just, wouldn’t be fair? Scum could always just veto the first execution attempt if it’ll kill one of them. And they could then argue WIFOM.

[Gamma Emerald]

disagree on toog. most likely outcome is not that scum!them decided to do nothing and try to get townread

I don’t think Toog’s plan has been to get TRed, just to coast
So while unwnd’s specific logic is not good that doesn’t make the read wrong IMO

[Gamma Emerald]

This makes me think that we actually should really look at pooky's posts cause scum either 1.) Didn't do the math to realize that it doesn't decrease the chance of them dying (I haven't done the math for more than 1 scum in a list but I suspect it is the same) or 2.) Really wanted Pooky dead.

I feel like the homework’s already kinda been done as to why it would be (2), he was active and TRed, and was pretty sensible regarding setup spec and how to scum hunt using that

[Gamma Emerald]

disagree on toog. most likely outcome is not that scum!them decided to do nothing and try to get townread

I don’t think Toog’s plan has been to get TRed, just to coast
So while unwnd’s specific logic is not good that doesn’t make the read wrong IMO

fair enough, i'm not deeply attached to this read it's just not the first place i would look

like wouldn't you try to do at least a little if you wanted to coast?

Not exactly
I was scum in a “vote for town” setup once and I was very disengaged and there was like no reason to change that because trying to rock the boat would have just been a scum claim
I feel like as long as we keep looking for scum in the same spots there’s not gonna be any call for him to change his play

[Gamma Emerald]

also it's fucking BS to say I'm accusing everyone when Peta is staging this to look like I accused all of these people at the same time when in reality this is a game-wide pregression.

I'm at null on Toog
ended up with town for Ceph
still TR Dwlee
nulltown Ulyana
nulltown Gamma

I don’t remember your full progression on me but you did hammer me out of what looked like paranoia that the wagon would shift to you?

[Gamma Emerald]

no I hammered because I thought you would be a high-information flip

I don’t recall anything about this in the moment
What did you think my flip would reveal? And why were you immediately willing to spare me given that thinking?

[Gamma Emerald]

@literally anyone
why is Infinity town?

Mostly because last time I saw scum!infinity I instantly knew

something

was off about her (this was the trist fall game). I’m not getting that vibe this game. It’s not definite but still something I stand by since I first got the read back when skitter+infinity were doing their little interaction dance that I’m pretty sure they always do when playing together

[Gamma Emerald]

no I hammered because I thought you would be a high-information flip

I don’t recall anything about this in the moment
What did you think my flip would reveal? And why were you immediately willing to spare me given that thinking?

We can yeet Gamma I don't care it's a useful flip

Obviously my read changed because of the sabotage and because of your page-long post spree about deciding who to execute that felt really town

Okay.

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah but have you gotten any good vibes? i usually get them from Inf and they aren't here

I think I got some early on

[Gamma Emerald]

I’d accept a Toog/Dunn duel
Bring people out of the shadows and into the light

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah but have you gotten any good vibes? i usually get them from Inf and they aren't here

I think I got some early on

Oh yeah
What were these?

-_-
I'll try to find them, but you don't seem like you're very receptive based on how you asked

[Gamma Emerald]

Peta attacked me for saying Infinity's low WIM was scummy but it just doesn't feel town here. This game isn't toxic, there's a lot of material to work with, I don't think it's IRL related. So why is Infinity barely playing?

hrrrrm
tbh I feel kinda out of it myself rn, I kinda feel dissociated from the game
which isn't the worst thing because I'm kinda trying to work thru some shit regarding getting over-invested in games, but I'd rather have a balance vs. being either all-in or way-out

[Gamma Emerald]

i was reviewing and my Toog tinfoil is probably wrong because the main two people pushing him were Gamma and Unwnd who aren't at the top of my scumpile atm
so yeah

wdym your toog tinfoil
why would people you aren't SRing pushing someone result in rethinking that person being scum? That seems to be the thing you're saying based on context clues

[Gamma Emerald]

@Cakez

You were pretty much about 'Toog being scum' early on and now you're at them being null and even some posts that read like you think they're town? Why? What changed

With Toog - they are just trying so little that it almost feels too scummy to be scum, you know? And I have this instinct that scum is in the higher-activity players and they want to use Toog as a freelim when we can gain a lot more information by flipping someone who's active and controversial. Where does a Toog flip leave us regardless of alignment? Nowhere really.
And my other stronger scumreads all have Toog as someone they'd like to elim and it just feels wrong - someone else agreed with me on this I forget who.

oh this is why the tinfoil was a thing
why do you feel like scum are higher-activity generally? I'd maybe look at people who are more engaged now than they were in previous events, but I don't think that label fits anyone rn.

[Gamma Emerald]

This game isn't toxic, there's a lot of material to work with, I don't think it's IRL related. So why is Infinity barely playing?

first of all i'm not barely playing

second of all i did talk about this to skitter towards the beginning of the game. i took a break from mafia and i feel a lot more relaxed and less emotionally invested in this game than others. it's a good thing and it lets me enjoy the game more but i might not towntell as much (though i'm not suspected as much as usual eithe

yeah, this tracks and if cakez doesn't adjust course based off of this I'm gonna start having a real problem

[Gamma Emerald]

Cakez/Dunn ain't aligned so I'm cool with this

VOTE: Dunnstral

why
also VOTE: toogeloo

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly if Toog is just scum my next scumgame I'm playing exactly like this

Just openly scummy and saying 'yo let's fucking murder some people. wtf is town doing? not enough bloodshed'

ngl I thought you kinda played that way already in general

[Gamma Emerald]

How is voting out me different than voting out toog for the game state?

it's not
I think you're both fine to be in the duel for that exact reason

[Gamma Emerald]

just do toog/dunn and make everyone involved happy lol

see, you

get

me
Also, I think just because toog's ISO is kinda barren doesn't mean it's not a good flip to see how others interacted with him

[Gamma Emerald]

here's some posting I like looking at infinity's ISO

VOTE: dunn pooky feels towny to me i don't like that vote

yeah what's up with that

the mafia already knows they want to be chosen possibly not want not to be chosen right

can you rephrase this?

PEdit: hmm you've played in a lot of awesome plists and you weren't so towny there

I like her poking at Pooky here

pooky is saying that they didn't read prism's "acquitted" post here. i was responding to the "hiding that they did" idea

nono i was saying prism might have been hiding their thoughts with regards to the chair, sorry

ok so if i got this right your thought process is:

prism and pooky both are thinking that it could be good to get voted here

pooky has an inutitive theory (the king theory) whereas prism's seems much less intuitive to you

therefore, prism could be scum who does not want to mention the more intuitive theory because it's actually the correct theory?

i think shiki is almost definitely town if the vote is not just an elimination or something similar to it

This seems like a reasonable approach to shiki's thinking

the implication in voting pooky for me is that there’s scum in peta/prism

gamma said that he was partly thinking from scum!pooky's perspective with those scumreads right? like "these are people who look scummy on the surface so scum!pooky is likely to scumread them". that's how i interpreted it.

i agree that it's weird to then vote peta. but none of this seems like a great idea as scum

i don't really townread him that strongly either though so i guess it's not too important

@saber a thought process that you don't understand on the surface is more likely to be genuine imo

the read on me seems fairly evaluated, I don't exactly sense intent to pocket or some other agenda

prism is town i think, she doesn't need to put this much energy into justifying herself as scum

PEdit: lol

deviating from the intent of this post because I do wonder what happened to this read?

prism mentioning her read rate on gamma + gamma trying to claim his read on pooky was partly a meme + i realized the arguments i was using to defend gamma were similar to the ones i was using when i was his scumbuddy

that's why i changed my read on gamma

This is a reasonable progression on me and resembles how infinity has rethought her read on me in the past as town

I might fetch more later if I feel like it, but I think these are some good early ones

[Gamma Emerald]

deviating from the intent of this post because I do wonder what happened to this read

you being towny makes prism slot scummier, also everyone else did townier stuff

that doesn't feel sound but I also don't think there's an explicit flaw in your argument

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Start
I'm ready I'm ready

We should publicly commit to votes probably right?

FUCK NO
I HAVE A [Stage] FULL OF FOOLS, A MOUTH FULL OF YELLING, AND A MIND FULL OF HOW [!$!!] STUPID Y'ALL ARE

[Gamma Emerald]

There's will be no moving on to the final vote until I've said what I need to say!

[Gamma Emerald]

Infinity, I think I get it atp, but could you go over your Prism/Gypyx slot progression one more time, from the beginning?

[Gamma Emerald]

mmmmm
no.

[Gamma Emerald]

So the votes at the end were saber+peta+gypyx+cakez on infinity, gammagooey was on skitter, I was on toog, and ydrasse wasn't voting
I got thoroughly angry at the fact infinity got voted in because when there was a substantial amount of traction on her I tried to see how the other side would play and there was a lot of suspicion towards her on that side as well, so I think she's a designated mislim here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Infinity, I think I get it atp, but could you go over your Prism/Gypyx slot progression one more time, from the beginning?

prism posted prism stuff which i felt was town but can't be 100% sure

gypyx efforted in a way that i felt was slightly scummy

from there it was mostly "everyone else towntold more". i basically have had the same reads on dunn, saber, and toog for most of the game, though i thought toog's posts in the PT were towny

I was hoping for more than that, that's awfully vague
to go back to the post I couldn't find the words I wanted to respond with earlier

deviating from the intent of this post because I do wonder what happened to this read

you being towny makes prism slot scummier, also everyone else did townier stuff

that doesn't feel sound but I also don't think there's an explicit flaw in your argument

elaborate?

idk i just feel like it's relatively unlikely prism would be wrong on you

the everyone else being townier thing is the main one though. it's hard to have a strong townread on prism cause i don't know she plays scum

I get why you'd feel Prism wouldn't be wrong on me, I've had some bad showings as scum against her recently and last time we all played together was back when I had my stunted af scum meta that you could very easily catch, but Prism still believed I had the same playstyle as I did back during the time of that last game we all played together, when you have seen my improved play as scum. So I think there's plenty of room for her to be wrong.

[Gamma Emerald]

we

why do you think toogeloo is currently alive if town?

i don’t really think he is and i said that dunn/toog was s/s theatre s:

thumbs up

would like everyone's opinion on this!!!

idrc about interactions, I think I have a potentially better metric to narrow down the scums
Infinity, I think you should reread the True Love game we played together, because I unfortunately think your play is following that track again which might mean your death here, but I'll do my best to ensure the scum come after.

[Gamma Emerald]

also tweet that's some quality OST choice there

word

[Gamma Emerald]

Infinity has been a literal wet napkin all game

The FUCK???

[Gamma Emerald]

hm ok
who do you have as scum besides unwnd right now? I just re-ISOed you and you definitely have done more than I remembered but I have like
zero grasp on where you actually want this game to go
you feel very go-with-the-flowy

i don't have strong scumreads yeah

{taly, gamma}
{ydrasse, ulyana}
{peta, skitt, cakez}
{toog, dunn}
{saber, gypyx, dwlee, unwnd}

i have too many townreads and most of this day phase i've been trying to sort out who of the bottom tier is the worst

and whenever i vote someone they start townposting or there's a reason to unvote so ahh

like unwnd just started townposting

ahh

How much have your reads changed since this point, if at all? How would you rank the players in an exact order of towniest to scummiest rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

How much have your reads changed since this point, if at all? How would you rank the players in an exact order of towniest to scummiest rn?

{gamma}
{taly, ydrasse, ulyana}
{cakez, skitt, toog}
{peta, gooey, dwlee}
{gypyx, saber}

i guess this is it, ordered from t->s within the tiers. toog moved up from good posting in the pt, dwlee moved up after thinking about it more because i think i believe their scumread on me, unwnd i felt was being genuine in ex. his interaction with taly towards the end of the last phase, he was trying to solve even though it looked like he was gonna die.

So here's the thing: I mentioned you come off like in that True Love game because on a lark I read that one over because I was also curious if you'd ever misread town!me (and you did, in that game) and you had the scum towards the middle of your reads in that game, while consistently push the T/T pairs. You ended up getting miseliminated which took scum!creature out with you. I think things are lining up in such a way that this game has become a near perfect replication of the trajectory of that game. As such, the midzone of your reads list is honestly where I'd want to kill in the most rn. (Cakez, skitts, toog, peta) are the full list of names I sus based on this conclusion, so I'd very much like to vote out peta here. If that is unappealing to everyone else though, I'd like to try something else, though idk how the math for this would even work, where we deliberately split the votes so it's scum's choice who dies, thus allowing NKA to be done.

[Gamma Emerald]

my lim order within that pool would be something like toog>peta>skitter>cakez (not factoring in the fact peta is forced to be first technically because I'd rather not have to kill infinity to validate my opinion)
fyi skitter has kinda sank in my reads outside of being in that pool as well

[Gamma Emerald]

can we just only try to eliminate mafias like i know we got one in the duel and that was entire goal and what i spent day fighting for, so let's just do that again pushing only for most likely not like, let the scum make choices for information!

I am firm in my belief infinity is town. If enough people think peta is also town, I'd rather force scum to make the call as that's more informative.

[Gamma Emerald]

can someone lay out why peta is scum ?

i had gut pings but they felt unfair soooo

I think he's kinda been defensive all game maybe? I also just, do not vibe with what he was doing in the blue room, that just reeks of keeping options open

[Gamma Emerald]

well I feel like I have good reason to TR infinity (and I'm willing to post a full case if desired, but so far I've already kinda drip-fed a few of my thoughts) but you voted her in aqnyway, and only after doing so had the thought "hey, the people on this wagon look mighty sketchy".
Here's another point from the case I think I want to drop early. You were so fucking caught up in reading how others interacted with dunstrall you didn't bother reading the other way round! Dunnstral had a reaction to infinity at one point that I find remarkably anti-partnery! At one point Infinity mentioned something about TMI from Dunnstral, and Dunnstral's response was "what, where?", in essence. I don't think Dunnstral would freak out to that degree if it was a bus. And I think Infinity was RIGHT to call TMI on Dunnstral since he was one of the more accurate people about the first event iirc!

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think infinity had the idea of what TMI Dunn put out, but she did make a good call by mentioning it in the first place, if town. I feel like had I been more attentive I would had hones in on that point before the result for the third event was locked in. By posting what she did, Infinity risked someone else catching Dunn, and that probably would have cleared whoever did so. That just seems like a bad play if Infinity is scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

only after doing so had the thought "hey, the people on this wagon look mighty sketchy".

gamma, flat out i wasn't going to be dissuaded on a vote because i thought the first person making it was scummy. i think that's a bad way to evaluate and often gets fooled by distancing

and i didn't really want to tip my hand on my feelings about saber while i was in the topic/making the vote because i was not voting saber for elimination and wanted to see what she'd post without strong pressure + if scum i don't really want that info conveyed to the other topic

...that's actually valid wrt the Saber thoughts. I basically stopped posting in the blue room after I realized what I had to do didn't involve any discussion there and I felt like interacting there would be a detractor to my aims.
The problem for me is that's also a great way to get someone miseliminated and then turn on the other wagon members if you're scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

(i should again emphasize, that unwnd slot is incredibly hard town at this point, never touch it)

why?

peta said this already, and I agree with it, his initial posting in the blue room was a marked improvement over how he was during the third event, which is a sign the scum flip improved his mood. I don't think the replace out had to do with this game, before anyone brings that up.

[Gamma Emerald]

...that's actually valid wrt the Saber thoughts. I basically stopped posting in the blue room after I realized what I had to do didn't involve any discussion there and I felt like interacting there would be a detractor to my aims.
The problem for me is that's also a great way to get someone miseliminated and then turn on the other wagon members if you're scum.

i think if i'm scum i don't start that pivot until after i get the mis-elim secured, might even stay off infinity anyway and try to be mindful of positioning myself i guess

that would make sense I think
it's not like your vote was needed anyway, ydrasse would have voted there if you hadn't

I really wish there was some way to truly eliminate neither player, because I'm getting cold feet on peta which means this is [Sophie's Choice] for me

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: hold
might as well make my stance official

[Gamma Emerald]

willing to trust this if you flip town

I'm saying the same things though, and you already TR me?

[Gamma Emerald]

not exactly the same, mind, but I'm kinda just focusing on what makes the biggest impression on me. I was trying to help get a flip unwnd wanted during event 3, so I was keenly aware of how the scumflip affected him.

[Gamma Emerald]

oh I thought hold meant hold my vote as in do not cast a vote for either
VOTE: pass