Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[Flavor Leaf]

did somebody say...useless talk?

[Flavor Leaf]

Early game is for future me to look over and analyze, not for present me

[Flavor Leaf]

No such thing as useless talk.

I do agree with this, despite my opening

[Flavor Leaf]

If I was in a neighborhood, would y'all wanna know, or would it be best to hold off on that for now

[Flavor Leaf]

asking for a friend

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay.

I'm definitely not in a secret neighborhood with Klick and Enchant.

If I am killed, do not go after them for secrets I've shared in the non existent neighborhood.

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay.

I'm definitely not in a secret neighborhood with Klick and Enchant.

If I am killed, do not go after them for secrets I've shared in the non existent neighborhood.

Stop or they realise we have telepathy

No, I said definitely not in one, I was super clear about it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm just gonna Cop Norwegian.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm just gonna Cop Norwegian.

this was definitely meant for the game thread.

[Flavor Leaf]

Might actually put together a readlist tonight so if you're town you better do some townie shit

doing townie shit is scummy

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't feel like the neighborhood reveal and the catboi wagon are coincidentally timed.

I think they were just jealous that catboi was getting all the attention and not them

false, i was getting the suspicion off of catboi.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, if there's a Mafia Miller, they should claim.

Multiball games generally have semi symmetrical setups, not exact, of course, and if there's a Werewolf Miller claim, then there should be a Miller. If there isn't, I say we power tunnel Well Done.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, if there's a Mafia Miller, they should claim.

Multiball games generally have semi symmetrical setups, not exact, of course, and if there's a Werewolf Miller claim, then there should be a Miller. If there isn't, I say we power tunnel Well Done.

getting it on the new page so it doesnt get lost at the bottom.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am in hood with Flavor and indeed he asking for me.

lmao

Actually, if there's a Mafia Miller, they should claim.

Multiball games generally have semi symmetrical setups, not exact, of course, and if there's a Werewolf Miller claim, then there should be a Miller. If there isn't, I say we power tunnel Well Done.

This seems very WIFOM. Why would you coach mafia players?

Well, because they claimed Werewolf Miller, that means there's likely the reverse since setup wise it's already seeming to be semi symmetrical.

In theory Miller and Werewolf Miller can be pseudo town for a bit, maybe role cops can get on them, and it also makes it so Cop/Seer don't target those players.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alignment assignment and role design had a random element; as a result, the setup may break certain common assumptions, such as the idea that a neighborhood cannot be composed entirely of members of the same scumteam. The first game featured a Mafia Miller.

didn't see this.

Okay, so neighborhoods can contain all 3 scum members even.

I still think a Miller, if exists for Mafia, should claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well, because they claimed Werewolf Miller, that means there's likely the reverse since setup wise it's already seeming to be semi symmetrical.

It is dangerous to make assumptions.

I live off danger.

[Flavor Leaf]

My power tunnel on Well Done if no Miller claim is gone now, btw.

Would be down to do a Not Miller/Miller type thing in the case there is a Scum Miller it forces them to claim it or chance getting rolecop guiltied.

Not Miller, obvi.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not pocketed yet, Titus is town

[Flavor Leaf]

tracer is the malefactor, calling it now

[Flavor Leaf]

tracer scum for not trying to murder me yet obviously

I already told Flavor Leaf in the hood I know you and him are scum together so you trying to pretend he didn't tell you that I told him that I was going to kill you both is p funny ngl

Youre not in my hood.

[Flavor Leaf]

tracer is the malefactor, calling it now

lol if I was malefactor I would've already claimed it and tried to get myself elimmed and spammed the thread full of shitty youtube wrestling videos

why, that's anti win con.

[Flavor Leaf]

That was a weird response.

[Flavor Leaf]

tracer is the malefactor, calling it now

lol if I was malefactor I would've already claimed it and tried to get myself elimmed and spammed the thread full of shitty youtube wrestling videos

That was a weird response.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can someone remind me.
Doesn't malefactor need to be alive to win with scum? Or do they just win as long as any maf wins?

they win when town loses. I was assuming they needed to be alive, but I guess that might not be true.

[Flavor Leaf]

This is probably an all scum hood. Sigh.

I have 3 PT's. None of them are the scum ones, and now that I know the randomization of it all, i'm so paranoid of this game

[Flavor Leaf]

Seems more like a Malefactor misplay than anything, there's loads a malefactor could do.

[Flavor Leaf]

No one else think it's odd that leaf was advising a possible mafia miller to claim?

id do it again, and still think all Millers should claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

I read his posts to mean a town miller who invests as miller, not a miller aligned with the mafia.

yep, exactly this ^

wasnt really aware of the possibility that there was a "Mafia aligned-Miller".

I did not read rules nor did I know of anything from the first NQNM game, and barely realized this was the 2nd of a series.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well Flavor leaf is not pinging town, and they aren't town reading each other evidently.

This doesn't explain why you think that all 3 are non-town

all 3 what

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't think that I being slightly paranoid.

genuine question:

do you think my play has been good scum play if you think i am scum or more just weird and odd?

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay but millers should still claim

[Flavor Leaf]

Alignment assignment and role design had a random element; as a result, the setup may break certain common assumptions, such as the idea that a neighborhood cannot be composed entirely of members of the same scumteam.

The first game featured a Mafia Miller.

you quoting this like it's something you assumed i read/knew prior to the post I made even though I clearly quoted this after the post.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alignment assignment and role design had a random element; as a result, the setup may break certain common assumptions, such as the idea that a neighborhood cannot be composed entirely of members of the same scumteam. The first game featured a Mafia Miller.

didn't see this.

Okay, so neighborhoods can contain all 3 scum members even.

I still think a Miller, if exists for Mafia, should claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well Flavor leaf is not pinging town, and they aren't town reading each other evidently.

It'd be more concerning if Flavor Leaf was pinging town right now.

stop pocket

[Flavor Leaf]

@Monkeyman - was I scum in a 5p Fylo situation with you once in a huge 2v2 like 6-7 years ago? I might've been on the Boonskiies account.

[Flavor Leaf]

just wondering if that was you or another Monkey. Don't remember playing with them again after that really, and it was so long ago.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ah, okay. NPOM.

That was a couple years ago, I think at this point.

[Flavor Leaf]

But I still don't hear you town reading your neighbors or them town reading you. So from a town perspective an all scum neighborhood is on the table.

not from mine

[Flavor Leaf]

But I still don't hear you town reading your neighbors or them town reading you. So from a town perspective an all scum neighborhood is on the table.

not from mine

Why would it be 100% off the table?

because that would require me to be scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Found the game, for the record:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85010&user_select%5 ... &start=400

You somehow weaseled your way out of a elim even though I had semi hard evidence against you.

Oh yeah, OutWorldER and Alchemist best teammates one could ask for.

[Flavor Leaf]

My 4th PT right there ^

Access to their hydra thread.

[Flavor Leaf]

With the idea that a Masonry/Monkery were randomized, I rolled 50 randomizations. In these cases, it's not possible for both scum to be in it, so was doing the randoms out of 19.

if there is those roles here, of course.



If Malefactor can be in them.

21 times no scum
18 times 1 scum, no malefactor.
4 times 1 scum, and malefactor
3 times 2 scum, no malefactor
4 times, just malefactor

if malefactor cant be in them

25 times no scum
22 times 1 scum
3 times 2 scum


I don't know what type of merit this has, but it does show a higher possibility of all townies than i would normally suspect, albeit not enough to clear anyone in it.

It's basically 50/50 if scum is in a Masonry/Monkery.

[Flavor Leaf]

these aren't exact odds, just how I ended up rolling. I imagine if I did it again, it'd be similar.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'll try to play some tomorrow, but i did say I'd be lurker leaf coming into it.

Consider that a super fancy prod dodge.

[Flavor Leaf]

isnt that just relying on it being a

% of 0 scum
% of 1 scum
% of 2 scum
% of 3 scum

which is what I was more trying to avoid.

I imagine the setup would have been more likely randomized that way than a randomizing how many scum to put in these things

[Flavor Leaf]

Malcolm looks like he's genuinely solving

Not necessarily a town tell in multiball, but i am not caught up at all so I’m not really defending/going against Malcolm right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Malcolm looks like he's genuinely solving

Not necessarily a town tell in multiball, but i am not caught up at all so I’m not really defending/going against Malcolm right now.

Yeah I know but I dont think the votes on him are particularly good either

Yeah, idk what I’m saying, I’m def anti Malcolm wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'll be doing more when there's more information. I knew I'd be busy at the beginning of this game which is why I said I'd be lurker leaf in sign ups

Y'all dont need me hyper posting in a multiball on Day 1 anyways. I'll be softly keeping up and checking the most recent pages when I show up. Idk how much I'll retain, but my name does stand out.

In regards to MonkeyMan, knowing their other account they played on, I don't see anything theyve done that is out of the ordinary, and actually is probably more likely to be town than scum for me with those comments they made about the neighborhood way back when.

[Flavor Leaf]

feel free to say @leaf or something if you need something. If I catch it, i'll try and respond.

[Flavor Leaf]

my scum list currently is:

Catboi
Mena
Flavor Leaf

I had 3 other scumreads but I forgot them because shit for memory

This just looks like you’re paranoid of stronger scum players and/or just want to say you caught them.

[Flavor Leaf]

I would say Wallflower’s last comment is scummier than TB, though, for the piggyback adding momentum to a townie.

If either of them were scum, I’d base it more on luck than TB actually catching them, though

[Flavor Leaf]

my scum list currently is:

Catboi
Mena
Flavor Leaf

I had 3 other scumreads but I forgot them because shit for memory

This just looks like you’re paranoid of stronger scum players and/or just want to say you caught them.

you're not that good at scum sorry

Yet I have one of the, if not, the highest scum win % this site has ever seen with over 8+ scum game pool

From 2014-2018 only lost like 3 scum games.

[Flavor Leaf]

I would say Wallflower’s last comment is scummier than TB, though, for the piggyback adding momentum to a townie.

If either of them were scum, I’d base it more on luck than TB actually catching them, though

What if I'm the townie and Tracer is just sheeping me, huh?

Well, i did say I’m not caught up, so if you were pushing those first, then yeah, it’s possible.

It was more of a personality pick up on TB that I town read them, then saw yours.

It’s mostly for my ISO. I do kinda like your response, though

[Flavor Leaf]

my scum list currently is:

Catboi
Mena
Flavor Leaf

I had 3 other scumreads but I forgot them because shit for memory

This just looks like you’re paranoid of stronger scum players and/or just want to say you caught them.

you're not that good at scum sorry

Yet I have one of the, if not, the highest scum win % this site has ever seen with over 8+ scum game pool

From 2014-2018 only lost like 3 scum games.

cool story grandpa

Oo, a weak deflection tactic. Sign of insecurity and inexperience.

It’s doubly added upon because their form of trying to deflect was to call me a grandpa, which means they’re of the mindset that the older is inferior, however…

I’m only 27, and. 27 who’s still building towards going into that prime.

So yes, I am older than a good deal here, but with 8 years of the forum mafia experience.

You’re just outing yourself as taking weak tactics.

I was at that level once, ya know, 8 years ago.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't think you're going to get a catboi lim through, so I'm not really worried either way

I may be attacking their push on the 3, but I actually do think Catboi has a possibility of scum here.

I just think TB caught them off luck and persistence of wanting them to be scum, and convinced themselves that they were scum, if that makes sense

[Flavor Leaf]

Your style is more lone wolfy and you mostly demoralize your team to the point where they stop playing so I'm not really priotizing elimming you.

this uh

sounds like you have some problem with me beyond the game, because I don't really think I tend to do that to my scumteams at all

that was at flavor leaf

I’m the one that actively pushed pro teamwork and had an anti bus meta for 2+ years


Looks like you’ve seen 1 scum game, probably where I had an oldie as a partner, and assumed all my scum games are the same

[Flavor Leaf]

my scum list currently is:

Catboi
Mena
Flavor Leaf

I had 3 other scumreads but I forgot them because shit for memory

This just looks like you’re paranoid of stronger scum players and/or just want to say you caught them.

you're not that good at scum sorry

Yet I have one of the, if not, the highest scum win % this site has ever seen with over 8+ scum game pool

From 2014-2018 only lost like 3 scum games.

cool story grandpa

Oo, a weak deflection tactic. Sign of insecurity and inexperience.

It’s doubly added upon because their form of trying to deflect was to call me a grandpa, which means they’re of the mindset that the older is inferior, however…

I’m only 27, and. 27 who’s still building towards going into that prime.

So yes, I am older than a good deal here, but with 8 years of the forum mafia experience.

You’re just outing yourself as taking weak tactics.

I was at that level once, ya know, 8 years ago.

you were a better player 8 years ago ngl

you're kind of washed up now

Lol, I’ve played like 6 games in the past 2 and a half years.

2 of those scum victories, 3 of those hard town solves. 1 of them I was only The Who had the correct reads as town, but others misfaded.


So stats prove other wise.

Don’t assume quantity over quality, kid

[Flavor Leaf]

Your style is more lone wolfy and you mostly demoralize your team to the point where they stop playing so I'm not really priotizing elimming you.

this uh

sounds like you have some problem with me beyond the game, because I don't really think I tend to do that to my scumteams at all

that was at flavor leaf

I’m the one that actively pushed pro teamwork and had an anti bus meta for 2+ years


Looks like you’ve seen 1 scum game, probably where I had an oldie as a partner, and assumed all my scum games are the same

I read your TM game where you blamed your team for being useless

Exactly. One game.

DEB is one of my best friends IRL, so your context is lacking, and he actively chooses to not do anything.

And Status is from that oldie gen that has always been anti, and is a hard personality clash with me.

You're ability to read context is poor, and devalues your push.

This is me trying to actively help you push Catboi, and you don't even see that because you're too blinded right now.


Norwegian was in the game, and was one of the best 1v1's I've had in a while, and even they likely would say that was a scum team of 1.


You chose 1 game, a game in which I did well in, and assumed context from it based on your limited knowledge, and used it as a staple to judge all of my other scum games.

Mathblade just did the same thing, and got us super burned for it recently.

[Flavor Leaf]

and he should've jumped you for it

but he didn't

so probly scum together

Do you think Menalque's posting re: you having a problem with him was +town?

I agree that Catboi's play has been very ~off~, but I'm not as sure that they're scum together.

I don't townread any of his response posts and the fact that he still hasn't laid out why he townread catboi is very +++scum for him imo

-

See, posts like this and the one you said where it makes me scum like it's black and white is showing your inexperience.

I actively stated that I see Catboi scum equity, and you just are seeing what you wanna see.

I'd even be willing to hop on with you.

VOTE: Catboi

I had been planning to do this for a while. You just got salty because I called you out on the "wanting to catch those players" as scum.

You need to look in more directions than just right in front of your face.

[Flavor Leaf]

flavor!town enthuiastically pushing people even when wrong.

flavor!?!?!?!?!? here doing nothing

I wonder what !?!?!?!?! is

Again, you're taking meta from like 1 or 2 games.

You realize I have actively lurked out as town multiple times before, until like Day 3-Day 4, and then came into solve the game late?

I also have had over 1k posts as scum, so my activity is never AI.

I stated in sign ups this was going to be lurker leaf.

[Flavor Leaf]

And again, people acting like I was the main one tunneling town in that game, but I wasn't.

I tunneled town once.

Every other town wagon I was on in that game, was one I joined late after being convinced, but my original gut reads were the correct ones, I just didnt trust my gut reads since I was gone as much.

In that game, my reads were still the most spot on.

Looking at End of Day wagons only is low level play.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf is more interested in talking about how he's scum!god than actually catching scum in this game.

Therefore

Flavor Leaf is scum

i feel like flavor leaf would do that as either alignment tho

you literally just watched flavor leaf play that large normal where he was "solving" and killing townies left and right (as a townie)

didn't he talk about being a god at the game in that game

i certainly remember something like that

yea he did

but he also ENTHUIASTICALLY PUSHED TOWNIE ELIM AFTER TOWNIE ELIM

EVEN WHEN HE WAS TOWN AND COMPLETELY FUCKING WRONG HE WAS STILL HAPPILY PUSHING PEOPLE LEFT AND RIGHT.

Do you see any enthusiasm from the dude at all?

i agree he's different

i imagine it was a humbling experience

I called you scum in that game on my first reads list, and was pushing ScumFrogger the entire game, and actively called Titus scum who was pocketing me and thus I felt they were town, but was aware of the pocket.


People see what they want to see, and then push the narrative they want.

But stands by, 2020 I had the best town year on site, and that's definitely not gone away.

You get me in a Day 4 situation in any town game, I will sit down and do the work, and solve. Larger games probably require a little later, but still.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf is more interested in talking about how he's scum!god than actually catching scum in this game.

Therefore

Flavor Leaf is scum

i feel like flavor leaf would do that as either alignment tho

you literally just watched flavor leaf play that large normal where he was "solving" and killing townies left and right (as a townie)

didn't he talk about being a god at the game in that game

i certainly remember something like that

yea he did

but he also ENTHUIASTICALLY PUSHED TOWNIE ELIM AFTER TOWNIE ELIM

EVEN WHEN HE WAS TOWN AND COMPLETELY FUCKING WRONG HE WAS STILL HAPPILY PUSHING PEOPLE LEFT AND RIGHT.

Do you see any enthusiasm from the dude at all?

i agree he's different

i imagine it was a humbling experience

I called you scum in that game on my first reads list, and was pushing ScumFrogger the entire game, and actively called Titus scum who was pocketing me and thus I felt they were town, but was aware of the pocket.


People see what they want to see, and then push the narrative they want.

But stands by, 2020 I had the best town year on site, and that's definitely not gone away.

You get me in a Day 4 situation in any town game, I will sit down and do the work, and solve. Larger games probably require a little later, but still.

I've unironically missed you, you know

Missed you too, Mena.

Thing is, nobody ever thinks about the fact I only say this shit in the middle of games when I'm in a direct 1v1 with someone.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's possible, but I think this could come from town TB too, though.

I actually don't know who they are, but they seem they're at that level right past being new where they've gained some confidence in games there aren't people who wont destroy them in a 1v1 based on pure loud posting, which that type of playstyle generally comes from town or scum who can't adapt their play.

[Flavor Leaf]

Thing is, nobody ever thinks about the fact I only say this shit in the middle of games when I'm in a direct 1v1 with someone.

I know, but I admit I still sometimes forget when I'm the one in the middle of the 1v1 lol

Yeah, it's one of the main reasons I switched from Boonskiies to Flavor Leaf.

My entire playstyle is me being Sonic.

[Flavor Leaf]

I said it before, I think that list was TB convincing themselves they're correct, which coincides with what theyve shown about who they are.

I, who was getting ready to come in and push Catboi, am happy to empty fuel TB pushing to see what the gamestate becomes afterwards.

Possibly trying to get Catboi to come after me, which would force more direct interaction for me to read.


30% confidence in a scum read on Day 1 is pretty good, and I'm at about 18% for Catboi right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm at about 18% for Catboi right now.

y

There was something off early game with them for me.

I have no knowledge of Catboi scum play, I was gone essentially the past 2 years, and that's apparently when they started doing well

It felt like they were oiling themselves up to be a slippery cat this game, if that makes sense, and that's something I like to do in these big games.

Getting heat early in the game, gets attention on you, but allows you to be part of the narrative for the majority of players who that's gonna be one of the main things they remember, which lets them pivot well as the game continues, and use that early heat as defense, even though you can get brought up to like E-2 as scum, and have it not matter too much early because people will chicken out, scum and town alike.

I'm also slightly afraid to push them more because I dont want to be threat night killed, but we've pushed past that point, I guess.

I much prefer the angle where scum think they can 1v1 me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Catboi is not gonna have a real case on them Day 1 either, they just aren't.

So Tracer Bullet definitely jumped the gun with trying to push them this early, and it becomes so much harder to actually have the fade go through because it's easy to slip out of that push as scum.

While I voted Catboi here for some momentum to check out gamestate, even if they are scum, I'm probably gonna end up moving my vote because there just isnt going to be evidence for a catboi fade that people are going to like enough here on Day 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

Don't need to catch scum Day 1, need to catch scum by the end of the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Eventually with scum and town, you get to points where there is no better, like art, just different styles. What is better to one person wont be better to another.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Menalque - Do you think there's a chance you're pocketed by Catboi? I went back and checked some things, and their first post in the game was an RVS vote towards you.

The fact you are town reading them so strongly for reasons I'm not sure why, not that I'm confident in Catboi scum by any means, but their first post acknowledged you, which is a direct way to interact with another player, and that can easily lend to trust for being acknowledged.

[Flavor Leaf]

I want this in my ISO.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

Can you elaborate

gut read, but I have nothing to trust except my gut this game

why is that specific to this game?

why is that specific to this game?

Because of my role, of course, obviously, how could you not have guessed/assumed this on your own?

what posts pinged you

I don't think I can tie it to a post/posts - it's moreso a general feeling.

I don't think I can tie it to a post/posts - it's moreso a general feeling.

You're very clearly a new player and i think you are having a hard time navigating in this environment. Hence you have a gutread on me that says scum.
That said, i do townread you and don't think you are being fake.

[Flavor Leaf]

@TB
@Wallflower

Can you both explain why you are scum reading Catboi?

I've given some of my thoughts on it, I think the pressure is good no matter what right now, but I wanna hear your reasons.

I think I saw Wallflower give some a bit back, but yeah.

I am town reading both Wallf and TB right now, so it actually leans well.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Norwegian - it's a Day 1 gut scum read, why is it effecting you the way it is?

[Flavor Leaf]

@Menalque - Do you think there's a chance you're pocketed by Catboi? I went back and checked some things, and their first post in the game was an RVS vote towards you.

The fact you are town reading them so strongly for reasons I'm not sure why, not that I'm confident in Catboi scum by any means, but their first post acknowledged you, which is a direct way to interact with another player, and that can easily lend to trust for being acknowledged.

uh, maybe, but I guess it's more --

a lot of people seem to kinda want catboi dead

when while he hasn't had that much (bar one thing) that stood out as that towny to me,

he also hasn't been scummy

and I don't see the awkwardness in the early game that others are talking about.

I also think town!catboi is a high priority lim for scum, so I can see both scum teams + potentially malefactor all playing into catboi paranoia to try and increase the odds of getting said mislim

the thing I really liked and I guess the main reason that I think catboi is town based on his own posting is 809 which I could jive with once I read back through malc's posting and paired it with what catboi is saying. having now talked to malc more on my own, and also feeling better about town there, I in turn feel good about catboi getting there before me and helping me to see it too

The bold helps me read you and see where you're coming from, and I like this as a reason you are against Catboi.

I don't recall being in a game with CatboiScum, or ever seeing their scum game, I could be wrong, however, based on what I've heard, do you expect Catboi to be scummy on a Day 1?

I don't see the awkwardness either, this could be scum pushing that or town who doesn't know how to express it, because frankly, I don't think there would be a case on Catboi Day 1.

I dont know Catboi well enough, but I do agree, both scum teams + Malefactor joining is likely, however, a full scum team + Malefactor would join onto the other scum without knowing. Dangers of Multiball for sure.

I had a similar progression on Malcolm through Catboi even if I'm remembering correctly. I think it's another neutral reasoning based on scum being able to guess that he's not scum or a scum partner. I think Malc probably town.

Reading you as town here, and Malc here as town, makes me weary of Catboi, though.

It's a rough situation, for sure, but I think there's merit in pressure on the slot. I do not believe you and Catboi are scum together.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Norwegian - it's a Day 1 gut scum read, why is it effecting you the way it is?

Are you talking about SOD's read on me?

yeah, I think it's fine of them to read that way, and I kind of liked how they explained it. It's Day 1, so overtime I imagine their read would evolve if things changed/more info. you focusing on it the way you were pinged me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Got my head twirling a bit since I also saw the Catboi sheep, which if Catboi is scum, I expect the other scum team to still hop on.

Bussing is extremely dangerous as scum this game because more scum available for momentum.

[Flavor Leaf]

What don't you get?

[Flavor Leaf]

The read itself? You said you thought that SOD was genuine. What don't you get from it?

[Flavor Leaf]

when I say dangerous I mean

Catboi is better at coaching his teammates, setting them up, manipulating game state etc.

Your style is more lone wolfy and you mostly demoralize your team to the point where they stop playing so I'm not really priotizing elimming you.

I would kill him first out of the two of you.

Jesus, Menalque I feel sorry for you

I think they were talking to me actually with that one based off of one game's meta

But honestly, this will go in my favor if I ever roll scum in a game with TB.

[Flavor Leaf]

Those things they said Catboi was good at, are the exact things that are generally said for me, which makes me happy there's more scum players finally doing stuff.

I need some Catboi scum links, I wanna check them out, see where they're at on their scum journey.

[Flavor Leaf]

The read itself? You said you thought that SOD was genuine. What don't you get from it?

Your musings of why you think i could be scum.

Why is that something you don't get?

I think it's a fair assessment on Day 1 that could think it's possible you could be scum from those 2 actions.

The SOD one is trying to change what you feel is a genuine read, but incorrect, and the catboi 4th wagon slot sheep I feel also makes sense.

I think both are fair for questioning at the very least. I'm not fully pushing you or anything.

[Flavor Leaf]

How to make Flavour Leaf engaged in the game:

Insinuate that he is lacking in the skills required to excel at playing as the scum alignment.

That's the 2nd best way.

Best way is to do the same thing, but for my town game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Tbh i do agree Tracer Bullet's been kinda mean and i wish he would tone down a bit. Not saying he can't have his opinions but there is no reason to be insulting peoples play and saying they are past their prime all the time imo.

Is this a thing they do often? Lol.

I don't think they're good with context or analyzing meta, so it's all just hollow.

For what it's worth, I fully plan to incorporate social gaming into my career (film/author/brand) and create a social games platform in the future (10+ years from now, but building the base), and my ambition/competitive/always learning nature just doesnt allow for that concept of past my prime at 27 to be true

[Flavor Leaf]

The read itself? You said you thought that SOD was genuine. What don't you get from it?

Your musings of why you think i could be scum.

Why is that something you don't get?

I think it's a fair assessment on Day 1 that could think it's possible you could be scum from those 2 actions.

The SOD one is trying to change what you feel is a genuine read, but incorrect, and the catboi 4th wagon slot sheep I feel also makes sense.

I think both are fair for questioning at the very least. I'm not fully pushing you or anything.

Well yes, i do think it's a genuine read. And if someone i genuinely believe could be town believes i am scum then obviously i would try to convince them they are wrong.
That's basic play no matter my alignment, but probably more town indicative in general? Because as scum i could easily just completely ignore them and it will probably have no further impact on me down the road.
As for 4th wagon sheep, well yeah? Sheepings kinda been my whole schtick this game and i'm not afraid to admit it. But i have a reasoning for that too, this is an 23 player game so if we don't sheep then we'll never get any information or a flip and what is more important than than in D1 of a large game.

I agree, it doesn't make you scum by any means, i definitely see why townieNorwee does it, but my point is mainly about at least being able to see where I was coming from, and why a ping, not necessarily a scum ping, but a ping itself, alerted me.

[Flavor Leaf]

me saying catboi is a more dangerous player than mena

is not taking a shot at mena

it is because catboi is probably the best scum player on the site

the fact that he is somehow turning that into me insulting him

is a fucking joke and shows just how thinskinned he is

You can praise catboi’s scumplay without putting down Mena in the same breath, which is what you’re doing by comparing them like you have.

it's a simple discrediting technique used to help win 1v1's.

A lot of newer overly confident players tend to use that kind of thing as their bread and butter to win 1v1's.

[Flavor Leaf]

Menalque being underestimated just gives them the power to come back harder, and being presented at the mountain top is only good for ego, and it sucks for actually playing the game.

When you can't hear the good, you can't hear the bad. best way to play it.

I think Bnuuy, Sword, and Wallflower are all townie. TB is townie. Menalque is townie.

Wallflower/Menalque are my towniest reads, I would say right now.

Wallflower turned me from my initial call out on them real fast.

[Flavor Leaf]

me saying catboi is a more dangerous player than mena

is not taking a shot at mena

it is because catboi is probably the best scum player on the site

the fact that he is somehow turning that into me insulting him

is a fucking joke and shows just how thinskinned he is

You can praise catboi’s scumplay without putting down Mena in the same breath, which is what you’re doing by comparing them like you have.

it's a simple discrediting technique used to help win 1v1's.

A lot of newer overly confident players tend to use that kind of thing as their bread and butter to win 1v1's.

Do you think Tracer is one of those players? Because he’s not.

are they an older player on an alt?

I just call out what I see, and right now, that's what they're looking like.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think all my previous games with Catboi they were town so i don't even know if the rumors of supposedly epic scumplay are true.

Sounds like they had a good year. I'm excited to see it. It's their time, pressure's on for them more now than before.

[Flavor Leaf]

me saying catboi is a more dangerous player than mena

is not taking a shot at mena

it is because catboi is probably the best scum player on the site

the fact that he is somehow turning that into me insulting him

is a fucking joke and shows just how thinskinned he is

You can praise catboi’s scumplay without putting down Mena in the same breath, which is what you’re doing by comparing them like you have.

it's a simple discrediting technique used to help win 1v1's.

A lot of newer overly confident players tend to use that kind of thing as their bread and butter to win 1v1's.

It sounds like that should be scum-indicative. Why do you have a townread on them?

That's one of those things that I think comes across as scummy, but is actually townie, if that makes sense.

I believe it is harder to play that way as scum than it is as town because the purpose of saying those words become less intentful since they're meant to help your scum game.

A lot of times I've seen scum players try to play like that, and they don't know how to switch off from it, and it just seems fake. While it's not out of the question, and exactly why I didnt put them as townie as menalque/wallflower, because I dont know TB like that, and for all I know, they could be good enough as scum to do that.

But from what I've gathered on personality, specifically when they brought up posts such as "Flavor did this as town. he's not posting much here. He's scum" that's a inexperienced type of black/white comment, if you were to believe that he actually believed that.

They also actively meta'd my scum game and acted like they knew exactly how I played as scum off of 1 game that was more of an anomaly of a game than most.

So while they could have been used as scum to discredit, i think it's more likely town, in a tunnel on catboi, used weak discrediting techniques to try to powerwagon Catboi.

But they also actively were going to hurt their momentum, so them leaving is actually a bit stronger play, regardless of alignment, but nonetheless, I can't say it's impossible that they are scum, but based on the way I am perceiving their personality and play level, I think it's more likely they are town than scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Sword, nobody thinks youre scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, Sword, if you're scum here, you win, because i think that's how obviously town you are. even moreso now than when i called you town earlier.

[Flavor Leaf]

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

Yep.

Ok, this is like the most obvtown slot ever lol.

points for Norwee.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Bnuuy - it's the timing and context of your posts. For instance, that last post you made towards me I completely understand why you asked why is it townie not scummie coming from a town pov, and the timing of it seemed like a genuine town asking it.

you've also been making pop ups here and there, and if you were scum, i feel youd have been pushing thorns in here and there with that playstyle, but instead it seems like you're just here in the conversation here and there trying to make sense of everything.

In multiball, and in regular, I guess. Especially Day 1, I town hunt more than scum hunt, because in Multiball specifically, scum get the ability to scum hunt as well, meaning just looking for scum is not town indicative.

It's those little things townie do that I'm looking for, and I felt it with you.

[Flavor Leaf]

Don’t know if i think Flavour is town because he is scum and trying to make us townread him or he is just town and i’ve gotten better at reading him.

How’s that for paranoia breakfast.

As the great Gamma Emerald once said, "If Flavor wants to pocket you, they'll pocket you, you just don't know it yet."

[Flavor Leaf]

Damn it, I'm scum reading that replacement when I feel I should have town read it.

This will not effect my actual read on the slot any differently because replacement readings aren't good. Mostly posting this for my ISO.

[Flavor Leaf]

From what I've seen of Enchant lately, i feel they're the type you have to catch with some more information in the game, and if they are scum, probably easy to read them later.

Similar to Not Mafia if you know how to read them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh dang, @Bnuuy - I thought you said something to me that was Butterchurn saying it to me. I might have been combining the two of you throughout this game, so I might have to reanalyze.

[Flavor Leaf]

That's one of those things that I think comes across as scummy, but is actually townie, if that makes sense.

I believe it is harder to play that way as scum than it is as town because the purpose of saying those words become less intentful since they're meant to help your scum game.

A lot of times I've seen scum players try to play like that, and they don't know how to switch off from it, and it just seems fake. While it's not out of the question, and exactly why I didnt put them as townie as menalque/wallflower, because I dont know TB like that, and for all I know, they could be good enough as scum to do that.

But from what I've gathered on personality, specifically when they brought up posts such as "Flavor did this as town. he's not posting much here. He's scum" that's a inexperienced type of black/white comment, if you were to believe that he actually believed that.

They also actively meta'd my scum game and acted like they knew exactly how I played as scum off of 1 game that was more of an anomaly of a game than most.

So while they could have been used as scum to discredit, i think it's more likely town, in a tunnel on catboi, used weak discrediting techniques to try to powerwagon Catboi.

But they also actively were going to hurt their momentum, so them leaving is actually a bit stronger play, regardless of alignment, but nonetheless, I can't say it's impossible that they are scum, but based on the way I am perceiving their personality and play level, I think it's more likely they are town than scum.

I don't know them personally, but my understanding from context of other people talking about them is that they are an experienced player who is good enough to play that way as scum. A lot of their overconfidence and dismissiveness this game did feel fake to me, which is a big part of the reason why I'm voting them.

that's fair. I think it's possible.

[Flavor Leaf]

didnt know tictac was on it, but kinda of was meaning more towards 4th in succession, albeit the fourth overall is generally scummy.

[Flavor Leaf]

pretentious alt tries terrible shitpush, gets scared and runs off

Pretentious is the name of my alt

[Flavor Leaf]

i meant tracer

sorry not bc

damn avatarsss

also is catboi just a policy lim atm

Not true

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m gonna have to think over my thoughts on Catboi.

On one hand, they are definitely a smooth talker, but they’re pinging me like crazy, especially that big post.

They’re saying a lot of things that are like…true, good statements, but not necessarily townie statements.

I also don’t personally like the Wallflower push because I think myself, Norwegian, and Mega are the worst ones on the wagon, but Wallflower has the most to go against and likely the least pushback.

I also see Wallflower as super townie, even if Catboi isn’t scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

TB being a Pooky alt makes A LOT of sense, though

[Flavor Leaf]

whoa TB was pooky? I guess that doesn't surprise me given the typing style, but pooky felt mean this game Contrary to what other people have said, that actually feels a bit out of character given my experience with him

My existence triggers Pooky

[Flavor Leaf]

Cat scratch, where’s your head at? I don’t remember a single post from you this game, but that might be on me admittedly.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also don’t personally like the Wallflower push because I think myself, Norwegian, and Mega are the worst ones on the wagon, but Wallflower has the most to go against and likely the least pushback.

Would you be interested in a MegA wagon by any chance?

Speaking of slots that aren't solving, MegA hasn't done anything all game

Not right now, im not against the idea of Mega scum, but I like the pressure on Catboi right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Noting Cat Scratch trying for a compromise wagon for the future.

I think it’s earnest right now, but maybe not for the future.

[Flavor Leaf]

Cat scratch, where’s your head at? I don’t remember a single post from you this game, but that might be on me admittedly.

Looking the top wagons-

I'm not a fan of the catboi wagon, it feels kind of lazy.

Or more precisely, this is the second time it has been the largest wagon based on what I perceive to be weak reasons

I wasn't a huge fan of TB but given your mutual... history, I'm willing to see what the replacement does

bnuuy I don't really have much of an impression of

Why do you feel it’s lazy? The reason I don’t think it’s lazy is because I generally had similar scum vibes coming from Catboi, but TB kind of drowned out the reasons and made it look like they were in the tunnel.

6 people on one wagon here isn’t lazy.

I made a post a while back towards Menalque asking them to town read, and they couldn’t, and the fact that it’s being presented as a policy/lazy is extremely off to me.

This makes me feel like Catboi has done well as scum with the social dynamics aspect of the game, and smoothly talked his way through the wagon on them and chose to turn the momentum on Wallflower, the easiest wagon to get going.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well Flavor leaf is not pinging town, and they aren't town reading each other evidently.

It'd be more concerning if Flavor Leaf was pinging town right now.

stop pocket

I was saying this as a joke before, but when I look back on it, and the way people react towards Catboi, this is exactly what I feel they were doing.

In addition to me pointing out why it would be beneficial for them to be in the spotlight for at the time they were, they have key figures defending them without even being able to reason why they are defending them.


Like Menalque and Nashville. And Cat Scratch also said it was lazy.

Which is interesting to me, because it’s being cut down.

[Flavor Leaf]

is it the easiest wagon to get going?

The easiest in the sense it was most likely to get going presumably from that situation.

Others might be able to get votes, but who all besides me was going to protect WallFlower, and I even doubt that I was being considered to defend WallFlower here.


Coming after myself or Norwegian would have been far more difficult, and while definitely possible, required an unnecessary 1v1 that I don’t believe scum wanted right there.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not sure that there is an answer that could be reasonably expected outside of “you just do”.

What if I said that's a shit answer?

Then I would wonder whether you asked the question in order to elicit a shit answer, thus dampening the impetus of suspicion against you.

I asked you the question to try to get you to justify your reasoning. It looks like you're having trouble backing up your accusation.

Ooo, why so aggressive?

I feel like I should be able to say that your posting feels a certain way to me without needing to explain the feeling.

But there seems to be this need to stamp out any suspicion cast against you, first with Tracer, and then with me. Seems a little OTT to me.

this tauntiness and shade is scummy it looks manufactured and fake as hell

I do not think it looks fake.

[Flavor Leaf]

Wallflower is cheekytown

[Flavor Leaf]

@Menalque - Do you think there's a chance you're pocketed by Catboi? I went back and checked some things, and their first post in the game was an RVS vote towards you.

The fact you are town reading them so strongly for reasons I'm not sure why, not that I'm confident in Catboi scum by any means, but their first post acknowledged you, which is a direct way to interact with another player, and that can easily lend to trust for being acknowledged.

uh, maybe, but I guess it's more --

a lot of people seem to kinda want catboi dead

when while he hasn't had that much (bar one thing) that stood out as that towny to me,

he also hasn't been scummy

and I don't see the awkwardness in the early game that others are talking about.

I also think town!catboi is a high priority lim for scum, so I can see both scum teams + potentially malefactor all playing into catboi paranoia to try and increase the odds of getting said mislim

the thing I really liked and I guess the main reason that I think catboi is town based on his own posting is 809 which I could jive with once I read back through malc's posting and paired it with what catboi is saying. having now talked to malc more on my own, and also feeling better about town there, I in turn feel good about catboi getting there before me and helping me to see it too

The bold helps me read you and see where you're coming from, and I like this as a reason you are against Catboi.

I don't recall being in a game with CatboiScum, or ever seeing their scum game, I could be wrong, however, based on what I've heard, do you expect Catboi to be scummy on a Day 1?

I don't see the awkwardness either, this could be scum pushing that or town who doesn't know how to express it, because frankly, I don't think there would be a case on Catboi Day 1.

I dont know Catboi well enough, but I do agree, both scum teams + Malefactor joining is likely, however, a full scum team + Malefactor would join onto the other scum without knowing. Dangers of Multiball for sure.

I had a similar progression on Malcolm through Catboi even if I'm remembering correctly. I think it's another neutral reasoning based on scum being able to guess that he's not scum or a scum partner. I think Malc probably town.

Reading you as town here, and Malc here as town, makes me weary of Catboi, though.

It's a rough situation, for sure, but I think there's merit in pressure on the slot. I do not believe you and Catboi are scum together.

These are reasons for Menalque town reading Catboi. I think they're in a pocket. I explained why I believe that they aren't strong reasons to town read, but this is more of a Menalque town case than a Catboi scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Menalque - Do you think there's a chance you're pocketed by Catboi? I went back and checked some things, and their first post in the game was an RVS vote towards you.

The fact you are town reading them so strongly for reasons I'm not sure why, not that I'm confident in Catboi scum by any means, but their first post acknowledged you, which is a direct way to interact with another player, and that can easily lend to trust for being acknowledged.

I think Catboi started the pocket on Menalque from RVS, and went with it more than 'planned' it.

[Flavor Leaf]

is it the easiest wagon to get going?

The easiest in the sense it was most likely to get going presumably from that situation.

Others might be able to get votes, but who all besides me was going to protect WallFlower, and I even doubt that I was being considered to defend WallFlower here.


Coming after myself or Norwegian would have been far more difficult, and while definitely possible, required an unnecessary 1v1 that I don’t believe scum wanted right there.

Both meg or toogeloo would be significantly easier eliminations, I could easily have screamed about them being opportunistic in voting me, they're incredibly easy players to mislim.

I don't think you're scum, I'm leaning town on you. I don't have a read on Norwee.

How so?

I don't believe there's nearly enough for you to get 12 votes on them. There's not enough of a case due to low info.

And they're more likely to move their votes than WallFlower is.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it's much easier to get 12 votes on WallFlower than Meg/Toog, and it also doesn't seem like the easiest wagon, but it definitely is the correct one to push as scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

1206 is a scum post calling out someone's play as scummy.

Alternatively, maybe they're WvM, Multiball might have me defending scum hard here, but I'm genuinely town reading Wallflower, and dont see them acting the way they have been as scum.

They've been playing like scummy town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, I'd by a ticket to a Catboi vs Norwegian opening night.

[Flavor Leaf]

Reading over the last few pages, I find Flavor Leaf's reads on the gamestate to be insightful and I generally agree that Wallflower doesn't look scummy here to me. I don't think I agree with the conclusion that catboi is scum taking advantage of that, though. I don't see much scummy out of catboi so far, and I think the initiative he has taken towards solving when he is present is town-indicative, even though I haven't always agreed with his reads.

This is a reason I think Catboi is scum, which sucks to try to convince people of, but like...it's actually a scummy thing.

They're saying all the right things, picking the right wagons to go to, picking the right player to try to slide onto with Norwegian (note that I, the main one pushing Catboi, was interrogating Norwegian earlier). It's possible it's happenstance, I admit, but it just feels like they're doing all the right things to get people to town read them.

And a description of their scum game that was said earlier was controlling gamestate, strong at manipulating town, and coaching scum mates, and them saying all the right things, picking the best things to go after is why I think they are scum.

I don't believe many others would point out WallFlower as the easiest on the wagon, but I think like scum as town.

Look at the way they've interacted with my slot. I genuinely do believe they've been trying to pocket me this whole game with little ad libs towards me to try to get me on their side. I think I've been rather strong at noticing myself getting pocketed lately, as I did with Titus in my last game, but I wasn't able to do anything about it even while noticing.

I haven't been pocketed by Catboi, but I think the attempts were there. Titus has known me for 8 years now, we've caught each other, we've pocketed each other, we've town read each other correctly before, so they're always going to be one of the best at pocketing me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it's much easier to get 12 votes on WallFlower than Meg/Toog, and it also doesn't seem like the easiest wagon, but it definitely is the correct one to push as scum here.

I don't think that's remotely true, generally it's super easy to take advantage of the LHF/lurky style players and push a wagon through on them as scum, someone like T3 for instance I just shoved to mis-eliminate every game.

I'd probably rate these players as the easiest ones to push here: Toogeloo, MegAzumarill, bnuuy, tictac, monkeyman, and enchant. Those are the types that end up as mislims frequently. Stylistically I think people are a lot less drawn to voting someone like wallflower - like, she pushed me first, she had the aggression, so in people's mind that discredits me a little and she presents herself as more "serious" than those players which means people are going to want to kill her a lot less, at least in the early game.

Why are you reading Wallflower as genuine town?

Easy to push, not easiest to misfade.

WallFlower gives you that perfect amount of easy to push because there's content that you can reasonably push onto them while making yourself look townier in the process.

You pushing any of those slots do not make you townier.

I think those reasons you just mentioned coincide with the actual reasons why ScumCatboi chose to push WallFlower. You wouldn't just pick the easiest on the surface level, when I say easiest, I guess I more mean what's going to make your game as scum easier in the long run. You could push one of those other slots, but it doesn't actually help you in the long run unlike WallFlower, especially in Multiball.

WallFlower can flip anything, and it wouldn't hurt you BECAUSE they were pushing you first. I find it hard to believe that you don't think you'd win in a 1v1 with WallFlower here if I werent here defending Wall.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's the teasing nature of WallFlower towards me. While it's only happened a couple posts, both times it felt very genuine, and in a way that was done specifically not to discredit, which helped me look at WallFlower here as just playing in the moment.

They were also early on you, which I think is more likely to come from town then have a scum or so piggyback on you. I called out WallFlower for piggybacking, then gave me the info that it was actually the other way around that TB followed WallFlower.

On top of that, I believe WallFlower is the only other person on the wagon who's given more of a reason for being on you, which is another reason I believe you chose to fight there. There was a reason to go against, and it's probably incorrect, I'll admit. There's not a large obvious case on you Day 1. My reasonings explain where I'm coming from, but it's hard to convince others with those reasons.

WallFlower and I also have the same read on you.

It's not impossible it's MvW, it's not impossible I'm wrong on WallFlower, I just have enough right now to warrant defending them, and pushing you.

[Flavor Leaf]

The thing is if Catboi is scum here, they just claim a PR a bit down the line if they're in danger, and it's like a shock absorption of damage control.

[Flavor Leaf]

there is almost certainly scum hoping for a quicklim here

At this point in time, I believe the people on the wagon were MonkeyMan, WallFlower, and Swords, and catboi made an early defense attempt. 12 votes needed, and nobody's gonna actually quick lim you here.

Monkey is someone who I actually think is really good at spotting scum who is manipulating the game, but for the life of them, they can't explain why and generally go the wrong way about it, and is fun to go into a 1v1 with when scum because their logic is usually wrong, but the read is right, at least part of it.

I remember 2 games I believe where I took advantage of that fact as scum with them.

It helps that I town read Monkey, Wallf, and Swords here, sure.

there is almost certainly scum hoping for a quicklim here

Meant to respond to this.

That doesn't have to be a bad thing if you're a werewolf.

Why did you specifically mention werewolves?

this easily could be Catboi coming from one of the groupscum teams noticing this more than another player would. weak reasoning, but if scum, true.

Only did a cursory skim of his scumgame in a mini normal, but I think butterchurn is town here.

awesome. This one's big for me.

Butterchurn, similar to Menalque, Catboi made a comment like this towards you early, and while you understand and liked what I was saying, you were hesitant to go on Catboi because they made you feel good about them. they helped you trust them.

They tried to do a similar thing with MonkeyMan early as well.

Spoiler:

God, can we please just skip the RVS?

prob town

My theory is that Catboi is scum going for mass pocketing attempts due to this being multiball, and the ultimate goal is to survive multiball.

I'm fucked basically because I'm pushing what I believe very strongly now to be a scum. I have more, I found something I think is pretty juicy.

[Flavor Leaf]

tracer scum for not trying to murder me yet obviously

nah but really he's town

So Titus, what do you think of catboi and his wagon

Early wagon, passive votes on wagon. Good for VCA.

As for Catboi, I lean town there.

why am i town

So Catboi has been throwing these early town reads to get what I call that Gamefic in early, and when someone does the same to them, he questions it, which is fair.

But then you can look at a lot of the posts they do towards me prior to my posting here tonight, and there's also multiple pockety attempts as well.

I even said once 'stop pocket', in a joking manner, of course, which shows that it was working.

[Flavor Leaf]

I mean, you're not going to get anywhere explaining why I could be doing all of this as scum, because I think you can basically build a narrative that way for anything that happens in a game. You can talk gamestate hypotheticals but it doesn't actually make any of it true or explain why I can't be doing this as town. And that's the thing, I think wallflower is just extremely slimy and bad faith and has operated with a narrow singular focus on me from the earyl game momentum on me that she's trying to over-justify. Whether I think I can win is, uh, irrelevant, because I actually scumread her. But it's also the type of player I expect to get a lot of resistance on scumreading, that's not exactly what I call "winning" a 1v1

Like, I don't know with you. You do not think about the game in the terms I do. Which makes it hard to understand what you're getting at.

This is another thing I've been bringing up.

They're right.

There's not a hard evidence case here on Day 1, and they know it.

It's a classic "doesn't matter if you know I'm scum, if can't get me faded" situation.

They're saying here they think WallFlower is extremely slimy and bad faith, but I really don't even see WallFlower doing that much.

If anything I see them as the piggybacker from the very beginning, even if they were on before the majority of this wagon, I still feel they're more of a cheerleader.

[Flavor Leaf]

Catboi bussing his n00bscum on page 1

classic

the trick is I'm trying to spew him town after I get crosskilled

I think this is genuine, but posed to make it look like it isn't.

In addition, this was about Malcolm, and they initially said talking about page count is >rand scum, and then Menalque brought up Malcolm reads with Catboi, which brings me back full circle.

I dont scum read Malcolm, but Catboi even said this to me, so Malcolm might be a possible partner, but i dont really wanna get to Malcolm right now. This is an individualized scum read.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't feel like the neighborhood reveal and the catboi wagon are coincidentally timed.

I think they were just jealous that catboi was getting all the attention and not them

false, i was getting the suspicion off of catboi.

thanks scumbuddy knew you'd have my back

Well Flavor leaf is not pinging town, and they aren't town reading each other evidently.

It'd be more concerning if Flavor Leaf was pinging town right now.

Well Flavor leaf is not pinging town, and they aren't town reading each other evidently.

It'd be more concerning if Flavor Leaf was pinging town right now.

stop pocket

nya

Some pocket attempts towards me.

[Flavor Leaf]

there is almost certainly scum hoping for a quicklim here

At this point in time, I believe the people on the wagon were MonkeyMan, WallFlower, and Swords, and catboi made an early defense attempt. 12 votes needed, and nobody's gonna actually quick lim you here.

Monkey is someone who I actually think is really good at spotting scum who is manipulating the game, but for the life of them, they can't explain why and generally go the wrong way about it, and is fun to go into a 1v1 with when scum because their logic is usually wrong, but the read is right, at least part of it.

I remember 2 games I believe where I took advantage of that fact as scum with them.

It helps that I town read Monkey, Wallf, and Swords here, sure.

there is almost certainly scum hoping for a quicklim here

Meant to respond to this.

That doesn't have to be a bad thing if you're a werewolf.

Why did you specifically mention werewolves?

this easily could be Catboi coming from one of the groupscum teams noticing this more than another player would. weak reasoning, but if scum, true.

Only did a cursory skim of his scumgame in a mini normal, but I think butterchurn is town here.

awesome. This one's big for me.

Butterchurn, similar to Menalque, Catboi made a comment like this towards you early, and while you understand and liked what I was saying, you were hesitant to go on Catboi because they made you feel good about them. they helped you trust them.

They tried to do a similar thing with MonkeyMan early as well.

Spoiler:

God, can we please just skip the RVS?

prob town

My theory is that Catboi is scum going for mass pocketing attempts due to this being multiball, and the ultimate goal is to survive multiball.

I'm fucked basically because I'm pushing what I believe very strongly now to be a scum. I have more, I found something I think is pretty juicy.

Having a townread is not pocketing someone. And consciously and deliberately pocketing someone just isn't part of my scum game.

I don't think it's a useful tactic because the game isn't won by getting a bunch of people to townread you

, it's won by getting town eliminated.

Pick and choosing, pick and choosing. This is Multiball, not a regular game.

It's not the having of the townread that's the pocketing moreso than the way it's happening, and the spreading of it.

Not a bunch of people. Specific people. You pick and choose, and then drop what you don't need. One good pocket is all that's necessary a lot of times. I also don't necessarily believe you actively chose to pocket all those people, it's more of a positioning, gamestate control thing.

[Flavor Leaf]

i meant tracer

sorry not bc

damn avatarsss

also is catboi just a policy lim atm

However, this policy lim comment is no longer valid at the least.

Can disagree with my reasonings, of course, but it's by no means a policy.


WallFlower's been there for a while.

I have my reasons, Norwegian saw the good in the pressure. Mega town read the wagon.

Tictac I believe voted Catboi with an 'Ahem', meaning something pinged them to get them there.

And Toogeloo, well, Toogeloo sheeped.

Then TB was in a tunnel.

But there is no policy there.

[Flavor Leaf]

Most of my case is probably wrong, I'm more looking into it trying to make a case that I already know isn't there, so you guys are basically seeing my scratch pad.

Like I said, there just isn't going to be a case for this on Day 1, which is why the "could be" defense is so strong from them.

My gamestate alerts just pinging me so hard with them, but their actual scum work has had a strong invisible effect on the game.

But yeah, my scum read has definitely gotten stronger than it was before. The choices they've made from picking WallFlower on, even the way they chose to interact with me all scum motivated, but looks so townie doing it.

Day 1 sucks.

[Flavor Leaf]

by the way, just gonna clear it up right now.

I'm not in a Neighborhood with Klick or Enchant. I was telling the truth when I said 'definitely not in a neighborhood with Klick or Enchant', and I just said the first 2 names that talked. But yeah, if you go back and look at that time there, I never said I was in it with one, just let everyone assume I was to see what people would do.

I got my MonkeyMan town read from that.

I've been lightweight trying to pull a nightkill, lightweight not.

[Flavor Leaf]

Really my biggest things on Catboi right now is 'saying exactly the right things', the push onto WallFlower, and the way they started to setup a possible pivot to Norwegian which I, the main one pushing them now, had brought up suspicions with earlier.

that one specifically felt like a way to try to get me to compromise onto them.

It's also the defense on them by multiple slots when I believe there really shouldn't be that type of defense on them. Nobody really has anything besides "just havent seen anything scummy", which to me, is a big reason that I have started to scum read them more in correlation with everything.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, I really don't feel like I'm wrong.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not in a Neighborhood with Klick or Enchant.

Are you also walking back your claim to be in 3 hoods? Or just clearing up that there is not one that includes Klick and Enchant?

I am not in one with Enchant/Click.

[Flavor Leaf]

Wallflower is town. I do not understand people claiming that they looked worse in the 1v1 with catboi.

^^ this.

There’s a few things Well Done has done earlier when I interacted that has me lean town on them back around that time. The “maybe I shouldn’t have asked” thing

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavour i think you’re wrong when you suggest the goal is for scum to pocket town in multiball. I think the goal is to simply survive. And to do that you need to make it so that you aren’t making yourself too obvious an target by obvtowning. But also not too desireable an lim because that allows you to be eliminated.
I think i’m allowed to say this as i’ve been nommed for Hannibal Lecter so when it comes to third-party play i do know some things. And Multiball is basically the same mindset for an scum player. It’s all about the balancing act. Don’t give town or the second groupscum too much power. Keep the gamestate contested and keep your priorities just right. Pocket some town, but not too many. Push scum, but not too hard. Make yourself indispensable for both town and scum so they both have an reason to keep you around. That’s how i actually expect scum to play here.

Well, yeah, I already kinda rescinded that as my main reason.

The choice of WallFlower, then the subtle attempt pivot towards you is the big things.

[Flavor Leaf]

I still think TB, now knowing Pooky, even moreso tbh, that they were town who just picked a tunnel, and went with it, convincing themselves because they wanted to be right that they were scum more than they wanted catboi to be scum themselves, if that makes sense.

The crew that came in and voted WallFlower. That's why Catboi chose it. There's more meat for others to decide themselves to jump onto WallFlower, and now it's legitimately become a Catboi Vs WallFlower.

[Flavor Leaf]

SoD is not scum.

@SoD - this might make Nashville more likely to be scum, I think. I still think MonkeyMan is town.

Nashville scum pushing Monkey, Catboi scum pushing Wallf. Could be same scum, could be different, idk how i feel on that yet

[Flavor Leaf]

SoD is not scum.

@SoD - this might make Nashville more likely to be scum, I think. I still think MonkeyMan is town.

Nashville scum pushing Monkey, Catboi scum pushing Wallf. Could be same scum, could be different, idk how i feel on that yet

I meant @Norwegian, not @SoD, but sure, SoD too.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m gonna have to think over my thoughts on Catboi.

On one hand, they are definitely a smooth talker, but they’re pinging me like crazy, especially that big post.

They’re saying a lot of things that are like…true, good statements, but not necessarily townie statements.

I also don’t personally like the Wallflower push because I think myself, Norwegian, and Mega are the worst ones on the wagon, but Wallflower has the most to go against and likely the least pushback.

I also see Wallflower as super townie, even if Catboi isn’t scum.

I still don't get why Catboi is pinging you, especially given the wagon states.

they were pinging me before the wagon states. To me, the wagon states feel like counterwagons are trying to come up to protect Catboi.

[Flavor Leaf]

This is not scum Sword.

Spoiler:

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

Can you elaborate

gut read, but I have nothing to trust except my gut this game

why is that specific to this game?

Because of my role, of course, obviously, how could you not have guessed/assumed this on your own?

what posts pinged you

I don't think I can tie it to a post/posts - it's moreso a general feeling.

I don't think I can tie it to a post/posts - it's moreso a general feeling.

You're very clearly a new player and i think you are having a hard time navigating in this environment. Hence you have a gutread on me that says scum.
That said, i do townread you and don't think you are being fake.

I'm not wholly a new player, it's more that I'm interacting with people I don't know from prior experience / haven't played on this site before.

I don't think I can tie it to a post/posts - it's moreso a general feeling.

You're very clearly a new player and i think you are having a hard time navigating in this environment. Hence you have a gutread on me that says scum.
That said, i do townread you and don't think you are being fake.

I'm not wholly a new player, it's more that I'm interacting with people I don't know from prior experience / haven't played on this site before.

How much previous experience?

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

Yep.

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

Yep.

And if you think this is a lie, there are 2 scenarios where I can roll no ability and have no way to help myself:

1. I'm an indie survivor, because I need to live to win, but can't help myself out in any way/shape/form,
2. I'm a malefactor and my goal is to screw over the town, but if I was, then I'd no longer have nothing to hide like this!

(there are probably more roles where no ability can help/hinder, these are the two that come to mind for me where I can't further my wincon on my own)

Like, Sword, if you're scum here, you win, because i think that's how obviously town you are. even moreso now than when i called you town earlier.

When I'm scum I know I have something to hide. I feel the weight of the truth. I feel horrible for lying to honest people.

Here I have nothing to hide. I feel free.

hmmm UNVOTE: NorwegianboyEE

okay what do I have to say to stir the pot what will get us somewhere

[Flavor Leaf]

specifically 1131 and 1142.

This is cute town.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm surprised, because most newer players tend to hate the way FL plays and want to murderise him for it

This is like my third game now with Flavor so I have a decent bit of experience playing with them. They miselimmed me once but I try to never take the game too personally.

i will hopefully never misfade you on a Day 1 ever again now.

[Flavor Leaf]

The crew that came in and voted WallFlower. That's why Catboi chose it. There's more meat for others to decide themselves to jump onto WallFlower, and now it's legitimately become a Catboi Vs WallFlower.

I don't really like this though.

I mean, I think that accusations of being "tunnelled" get thrown around too often, because in my experience sometimes scum have needed to be tunnelled in order to get eliminated (sometimes it's the only way!), but I also think it's important to constantly re-evaluate reads and try my best to do this, even if there will still always be biases there. But in the catboi case, as I've said, I'm not certain that they're scum? and I'm not sure that making it all about the two of us is helpful.

I have appreciated insights from people such as butterchurn in response to my thoughts, and honestly I'm interested to see where catboi ends up being at too. I expect that this would be a tricky situation for them to navigate if they are scum, especially since if catboi is scum, they probably realise that I'm town.

It wasn't up to you to make it Catboi vs WallFlower. Catboi caused it when they picked you, and momentum followed thereafter.

You are the 2 leading wagons, and then MonkeyMan's there possibly to get another wagon rolling, however, i believe that had votes before.

I explained why I believed you to be the most likely choice for scum to target in that situation. I had called you town a little bit before, so I guess part of it requires me to be right on you, but I truly think it was townie when you interacted with me yesterday.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why are they counter wagons to protect catboi and not to protect MonkeyMan?

I think MonkeyMan is obv town personally, and I think that Nashville is coming across with some scummier sides to them, but I don't really like to push Titus early, but that's just because I can read them with more information, and vice verse. So if T/T, on a personal level, it makes the game easier for me.

Not a great reason, but I think understandable.

I've just used MonkeyMan as a scape goat as scum too many times, and know what he's like as town because of it.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Well Done - I got in a back and forth with TB, and like majority of my games, a 1v1 brought me into the game.

Norwegian even said to get Flavor engaged, just call out his scum game.

[Flavor Leaf]

I tried to warn y'all about you not needing me hyper posting, but TB then came in. It helped that I was already off put a bit by Catboi myself. And you can see when I'm arguing with TB that I say that a few times, and they dont even seem to realize it.

[Flavor Leaf]

he stepped in to discredit the TB push based on this idea.

i stepped into discredit TB, not the push based on the idea.

[Flavor Leaf]

Then Catboi came in, saw the wagon building on him, he made a post to discredit the TB push based on this idea.

Catboi came in after I was already voting TB, and I believe after TB had replaced out because TB vs Menalque was a big thing.

[Flavor Leaf]

I find the odds that SoD is VT to be very low, based on the first game role setup.

there were 3 last game what exactly are you referring to

Out of what, 15 or 16 town, that's a pretty low percentage chance.

this is gambler's fallacy. they had the same odds as everyone else, and someone in the game had to roll it. I don't see a purpose of scum claiming to be VT and locking themselves in this early.

[Flavor Leaf]

My immediate paranoia to spotting this is that they are scum together. That in the scum chat they were talking about the playerlist, and catobi said basically this idea as a worry that pooky would likely end up tunneled on him for this reason.

So, when Flavor Leaf saw TB present a scum reads list of 3 names, and saw both catboi and himself on it, he stepped in to discredit the TB push based on this idea.

oh, I actually like this as a reason.

Yeah, that's a good paranoia. It's not happening, but I do see how you could get there.

[Flavor Leaf]

Tell ya what, Well Done. If you think we're S/S, let's get on Catboi, and make me play chicken.

[Flavor Leaf]

I betcha I cluck.

[Flavor Leaf]

Does anyone here think Titus did not in fact roll an scum role this game?

yeah, it's not impossible that Titus/Catboi are scum together for me either. She's been discrediting the wagon as if it's nothing, but it's definitely not nothing. I can understand people being nervous about the size of it, though. But it feels to me like she's pushing for the sake of pushing, and not really believing in it.

I don't think she even saw the Sword stuff yesterday, and I think Monkey is easy to push when he's town because the stuff he says comes off so awkward, but I think it fits with the way he thinks as town.

I understand I may be a bit tunneled on Catboi, but I tunnel onto scum too! Idk, ill have to reanalyze, but yeah.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think titus is scum and mala is town

[Flavor Leaf]

Does anyone here think Titus did not in fact roll an scum role this game?

I've liked most of their posts so far. It's hard for me to judge hydras as I'm not used to the concept, but the ones from Titus have looked a little bit more suspicious to me, which is making it hard to tell. If I'm wrong on MonkeyMan then I think they look a bit worse, but I don't really think that I am.

I understand MonkeyMan pushing...but I feel like he's super scummy town, and scum he's just there. He's been putting themselves out there, i feel, in a way where Scumkey just would have been dumb to do so.

[Flavor Leaf]

Does anyone here think Titus did not in fact roll an scum role this game?

I've liked most of their posts so far. It's hard for me to judge hydras as I'm not used to the concept, but the ones from Titus have looked a little bit more suspicious to me, which is making it hard to tell. If I'm wrong on MonkeyMan then I think they look a bit worse, but I don't really think that I am.

I understand MonkeyMan pushing...but I feel like he's super scummy town, and scum he's just there. He's been putting themselves out there, i feel, in a way where Scumkey just would have been dumb to do so.

Maybe. I've been led astray by too much meta before rather than just focusing on what I see in front of me, and so I've been wanting to try to avoid it, but I guess it may be necessary in this case.

frankly, im reading monkeyman as town w/o meta because i just think their play's been kinda that scummy but not scum type. specifically around the neighborhood talk.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, I believe MonkeyMan's push on WallF comes from town because there's no reason for him to push it like he is as scum here because there was already more into it. He's getting his hands dirtier than he has to if he is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Norwegian - Thoughts on Catboi setting up a pivot towards you?

[Flavor Leaf]

On a skim I actually think norwee might be scum here. The towniest thing he had was his dust-up with malcolm, but other than that he's been floating and it reminds me a lot of his play in control where he was the SK. He'll call people town but it doesn't seem like he had reads he actually cares about and as town generally he finds something he wants to push and actually tries to solve.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't see a purpose of scum claiming to be VT and locking themselves in this early.

You can’t see me but I’m making a face where I’m frowning and my lips are pushed together and pulled back into my mouth

It’s meant to convey extreme scepticism

I double down on the sentiment that locking yourself in as VT here in a large Multiball is not good.

What if you get guiltied? What if you have to make a kill and get tracked?

The only thing they avoid is possibly the other scum team's night kill, which I doubt Sword was going to be targeted anyways.

I do see some reasons actually, but why claim VT there. Why do it the way they did? So idk what that skepticism's about

[Flavor Leaf]

@Norwegian - Thoughts on Catboi setting up a pivot towards you?

On a skim I actually think norwee might be scum here. The towniest thing he had was his dust-up with malcolm, but other than that he's been floating and it reminds me a lot of his play in control where he was the SK. He'll call people town but it doesn't seem like he had reads he actually cares about and as town generally he finds something he wants to push and actually tries to solve.

That's not "setting up a pivot", that's forming a read. I had no real thoughts on Norwee this game, he was wagoning me, I went to ISO him and came back with my thoughts.

if you are town, yes.

If you are scum, no.

[Flavor Leaf]

The scepticism is about being locked in as VT

Oh, lol. They are locked in as VT.

If I claimed VT, that's a different story.

[Flavor Leaf]

SoD is the towniest player in this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

SoD is the towniest player in this game.

Even you?

I'm not townie, im just town.

[Flavor Leaf]

So maybe SoD is "townie, but scum." Not that I buy the townie part.

bruh, they were newb town telling left and right.

I think you're just thinking too much into it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, this makes no sense for Monkey, who has potential to become the main wagon right now, to be pushing Sword in this way.

I believe this is Town Monkey falling on a Town Sword.

Making Nashville scum much more likely. =/

[Flavor Leaf]

@Norwegian - Thoughts on Catboi setting up a pivot towards you?

On a skim I actually think norwee might be scum here. The towniest thing he had was his dust-up with malcolm, but other than that he's been floating and it reminds me a lot of his play in control where he was the SK. He'll call people town but it doesn't seem like he had reads he actually cares about and as town generally he finds something he wants to push and actually tries to solve.

That's not "setting up a pivot", that's forming a read. I had no real thoughts on Norwee this game, he was wagoning me, I went to ISO him and came back with my thoughts.

if you are town, yes.

If you are scum, no.

I mean, if I were scum, it would be a genuine read regardless, no?

Of course, the thing is, Norwee isn't a player who would be good to push as scum. He might blow up under pressure but that also gives him the chance to start obvtowning and then he stops being pushable and has more sway in the game. I try not push potentially volatile players as scum because it has a strong chance of backfiring. Was kind of like how I handled Andante in my game with Menalque.

why do you believe you can't use a genuine read as a pivot? if anything I think that's a better scum move.

You weren't pushing Norwee, though, you said it was just a read.

[Flavor Leaf]

me right now trying to save as many townies as i can

[Flavor Leaf]

@FL
Tbh i feel more like Catboi was testing the waters there. As in trying to see if anyone would agree with them that i was being scummy by pointing out how i'm "floaty and not solving" etc.
But not really going anywhere with it themselves.

that's kind of what I mean by it. it was a very strong post as scum to make because it would get someone else to push.

It's kind of like what I feel they're doing with WallFlower.

I believe I am right on Catboi Scum here, and post game, I think that will be one of their scummiest posts.

[Flavor Leaf]

like not going anywhere with it themselves makes it worse for me not better

[Flavor Leaf]

rough situation.

They just end up claiming a PR if they get pushed up, and then I get taken out in night, and people move on

feel it coming already.

[Flavor Leaf]

I will cheat and say that roughly half of you are scum so i can decide by coin flip.

just sheep the leaf.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why i should

they scum

[Flavor Leaf]

they are who

kitten

[Flavor Leaf]

this seems like a big ego push because he's decided he wants to be the hero here.

implying I would be the hero here.

[Flavor Leaf]

@FL
Tbh i feel more like Catboi was testing the waters there. As in trying to see if anyone would agree with them that i was being scummy by pointing out how i'm "floaty and not solving" etc.
But not really going anywhere with it themselves.

it was also the timing because it was right when I really started to push them, and you were the one I had recently had a run in with when I questioned you about your reaction to sword followed by your sheep vote.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we lim bnuuy now?

VOTE: bnuuy

My fade options for the day are so far.

Catboi > Nashville

[Flavor Leaf]

bnuuy epitome of a compromise wagon.

Noting people who went for the compromise outside of the main 3:

Menalque
Cat Scratch.

Hmm. I town read Menalque, but theyd know how to get me to town read them here as scum, but nonetheless. I also felt Cat Scratch was genuine with Mega, but dont have much else on them. I liked Mega's reasoning of town reading the Catboi wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

Catboi > Nashville

Gonna have to give you the big ole wrong answer gameshow buzzer on the first one, but I guess I’ll listen on Nashville

Nah, you pocketed. I already talked about that.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we lim bnuuy now?

VOTE: bnuuy

Do you think this vote feels easier because of bnuuy‘a lack of recent thread presence?

yeah that was a bad vote, but i think he's trying to protect their pocketer catboi, so i dont know how to feel about it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm going to stick on Catboi. If they're scum, it's good. If they're town, I'm giving scum a free tasty meal on the platter that I can check fingerprints of.

I also like seeing who tries to defend them.

[Flavor Leaf]

They seem nice and all, but that’s a scum iso papa leaf

that's how i feel about Catboi's ISO.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we lim bnuuy now?

VOTE: bnuuy

My fade options for the day are so far.

Catboi > Nashville

Can you talk more about Nashville? I feel like you've been somewhat indirect in your suspicions on them. I would like to see a case, if you have one.

I feel like I've been pretty direct. They've been defending Catboi awkwardly, and their pushes on Monkey/Sword are weak to me.

I think I've been very clear about my reads on both Monkey and Sword. It feels like they're pushing for the sake of pushing, and also trying to help Catboi out.

They called the Catboi nothing but a policy lim, and that's just not true.

I will say, my Nashville scum read does rely a lot on Catboi scum, and it's not impossible that it's Catboi Town, Nashville Scum, but Catboi flipping town wouldn't immediately make me go to Nashville, and would probably ease up my Nashville read a bit, tbh.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nashville, Malcolm, Menalque, Butterchurn

while I dont scum read the majority of these, and even lean town, this is a pool that likely has at least 1 scum regardless of Catboi alignment.

These have been the main defenders of Catboi, and if I am tunneling TownCat, there's a scum in there.

[Flavor Leaf]

If Bnuuy is scum, it's likely with Catboi anyways, based on Wagonomics, so there could be worse votes, I guess.

[Flavor Leaf]

So much is screaming at me that it's possible I'm in a tunnel, and Norwegian's actually the scum, meaning Catboi's read is correct, but for the life of me, I'm just hard gut town reading Norwegian when they say that kind of stuff. So it's a paranoia scum feeling because of my gut town read. Does that make sense?

The fact I feel that there are worse votes than Bnuuy votes makes me feel like that's why it's the best and most likely compromise wagon, which I hate compromise wagons.

[Flavor Leaf]

This is not scum Sword.

Spoiler:

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

Can you elaborate

gut read, but I have nothing to trust except my gut this game

why is that specific to this game?

Because of my role, of course, obviously, how could you not have guessed/assumed this on your own?

what posts pinged you

I don't think I can tie it to a post/posts - it's moreso a general feeling.

I don't think I can tie it to a post/posts - it's moreso a general feeling.

You're very clearly a new player and i think you are having a hard time navigating in this environment. Hence you have a gutread on me that says scum.
That said, i do townread you and don't think you are being fake.

I'm not wholly a new player, it's more that I'm interacting with people I don't know from prior experience / haven't played on this site before.

I don't think I can tie it to a post/posts - it's moreso a general feeling.

You're very clearly a new player and i think you are having a hard time navigating in this environment. Hence you have a gutread on me that says scum.
That said, i do townread you and don't think you are being fake.

I'm not wholly a new player, it's more that I'm interacting with people I don't know from prior experience / haven't played on this site before.

How much previous experience?

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

Yep.

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

Yep.

And if you think this is a lie, there are 2 scenarios where I can roll no ability and have no way to help myself:

1. I'm an indie survivor, because I need to live to win, but can't help myself out in any way/shape/form,
2. I'm a malefactor and my goal is to screw over the town, but if I was, then I'd no longer have nothing to hide like this!

(there are probably more roles where no ability can help/hinder, these are the two that come to mind for me where I can't further my wincon on my own)

Like, Sword, if you're scum here, you win, because i think that's how obviously town you are. even moreso now than when i called you town earlier.

When I'm scum I know I have something to hide. I feel the weight of the truth. I feel horrible for lying to honest people.

Here I have nothing to hide. I feel free.

hmmm UNVOTE: NorwegianboyEE

okay what do I have to say to stir the pot what will get us somewhere

I quite like this as reasoning for SoD being town actually

Norwegian, Sword, Klick, Flavor town block.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have to remind myself that this game has 9 (!) scum in it, and therefore there is going to be a lot of nonsense on any given page

Where are you getting this from? First game had 7 scum in it with a similar number of players.

please can we fade this my insides are burning. I'm hysterical.

I totally expect people to defend this sentiment too.

[Flavor Leaf]

Menalque, you're here, hello!
How do you motivate yourself to sift through 50+ pages of stuff that may or may not be relevant or helpful?

I uh

Mostly don’t nowadays

I just read ISOs from people I like or who draw my attention and then read the spicy bits that stand out from reading the ISOs

ah, man, so you're missing the timing of shit.

that explains a lot.

[Flavor Leaf]

and just like that, a Bnuuy compromise wagon about to become the counter. Better than Monkey/Sword/Wallf, though

[Flavor Leaf]

Menalque trying to convince me scum is in the herbivore bunny rather than the carnivorous cat.

My gut instinct is that it feels too obvious as scum to do it, but i am realizing im town reading a lot of people, and scum reading very little, which is par for the course for me, but yeah. i expect some scum in my town reads.

I'm not against seeing what happens with Bnuuy wagon, but just hope Catboi wagon can stay strong.

Menalque is mainly just getting people off my town reads, though or people who were stragglers.

[Flavor Leaf]

Menalque and I can both be right in this one since Multiball. I'm not totally against the idea of Bnuuy being scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Tbh i could see this maybe flip scum that's why i'm not that strongly arguing against it. But my pride stops me from voting another wagon atm.

I would think Catboi-Bnuuy would be different scum in that case. One wolf, one mafia.

[Flavor Leaf]

Honestly, if we vote Bnuuy, Norwegian, then the Bnuuy wagon is gonna be seen as being built up super fast.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Bnuuy

Yeah, I'll vote there.

[Flavor Leaf]

If I die tonight, you kill Catboi. No exceptions. No "why would I kill Flavor when they were tunneling"

smooth talkers dont care if people push them in thread for that stuff because the heat they get from killing me is much lower than the heat they get with me alive.

[Flavor Leaf]

Menalque can take the brunt and blame here if Bnuuy's town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well FL voted so i got no buddies to be contrarian with anymore.
VOTE: Bnuuy

My main thing is, even if Catboi got ran up, theyd just claim a PR and even though PR claims mean nothing to alignment this game based on random element, people would have backed off.

They saved Catboi from claiming, though, which in hindsight will look pretty bad for certain people.