X-Men: Age of Apocalypse (Game Over)
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1549, Rogue wrote:? bork
Where I'm starting to doubt my reads and in thread communication is devolving into a couple parallel tunnels and I'm gonna try to reset.-
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In post 1607, Feu et Vol wrote:In post 1598, SnowStorm wrote:"Titus is not pushing things well" - What does that mean? How is that a scum tell?
"is constantly just screaming I am Town listen to me" - Again, how is this a scum tell?
"their push on Venmar makes no sense what so ever" - Since when is making no sense a sign of scum?
What's all that about trolling?
And that last paragraph, what? You're arguing that Titus tunneling on you but not being convinced/not voting you is a scum tell? Why would she do that as scum? I mean, why would she tunnel on you as scum if she had no intention to mislynch you?
1. Titus seems to believe as town they are a godsend. If this were to be true then their logic would be easy to follow. It is not easy to follow here. They find the littlest things and just harp on the relentlessly. This is a scum tell because scum have to do everything they can to get a mislynch and they have to find the littlest things to push them with.
2. This is a scum tell because most of their posts are just that. Screaming that they are town and should be listened too. It doesn't come off as genuine town frustration but scum frustration that they can't get a single person to listen to the convuluted reasons to scum-read people. They also can't back down though because that would be a scum claim because apparently Town Titus tunnels people to death.
3.There should at least be some sort of followable logic in their push on Venmar but I don't see it. I classify their push their just like the push on Marquis based on nothing but tells that aren't real.
4. Titus thinks that town Marquis should troll in every game or else they are scum. They don't care the situation or the circumstances they just want Marquis to troll.
5. Why would town scream and shout about how scum I am but yet not vote me? It is Titus being able to later come back to once again push my mislynch. They know they won't get it today so they have to reserve it for later. The tunneling part goes back to the fact that Town Titus apparently tunnels people so Titus has to continue to tunnel me or else they would no longer look town to people, in their own eyes.
-Beast
P-edit:
How is titus town?
Thank you for following up and I really like this post as far as reinforcing my townread on you, especially seeing where you're head is at with points #1 and #3 - Titus is making some points that I think are really pants on head. I think #4 is also contributing to a bunk read on you guys from her.
I just don't know if I think that's scummy or not overall or just really out of touch in certain spots. I think the confidence, playing mediator to her town reads, and trying to generally drive the game is what's swinging me the other way.-
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In post 1600, Rogue wrote:In post 1513, RubikAshtray wrote:I was fucking raging irl, doesn't mean I'll rage on thread.
I didn't expect the game would be like this, I'm a bit confused about everything. I'm not happy with my play, as I know I'm not doing anything useful.
I'll put a readlist up soon if it's any good
@mollie bork and jiffy
What do you guys think of the first line? I figured newbtown called out on a "scumslip" would be more panicky but he sounded calm in the QT and now he said he was raging irl? I don't know if I buy it
pedit-
fair enough
What mollie said basically - I have no frame of reference for this.-
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In post 1583, Rogue wrote:Bork can you get your vote onto a snowstorm wagon or tell me and majiffy why it's a bad wagon
I don't know what to say to this other than what I said to Jiffy - I see exactly one marginally questionable thing from him. He's not a shining beacon of town for me, but I do feel like he's at least trying to solve the game with his early game read progression (And the manner in which he was conservative about giving them out)
What is warranting your shift to him?-
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In post 1626, Titus wrote:Really, you can't follow lynching people who "randomly" voted the neighborhood that has the most powerful ability and then provide no content or utlility as a scumread? Die scumbuddy.
I don't like this point either (and I never have) because you can't even begin to assign probabilities to this (other than the really nebulous 'venmar is not a careless player' thing that doesn't encompass every action he might take on anything ever).
Temper that by the fact that I can see him voting me at the beginning because I'm probably one of the people in the thread he's more familiar with.-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1636, Titus wrote:As for the Venmar point, it's never about probabilities. He's helping scum and not doing anything to help out town. People have asked me to try to reach out to Venmar, so I've asked him for reads for content. I get shitted on. He knows by now that I need content or I will scumread. Utility is the best way to scumhunt. It's also how you scumhunt me. Am I attempting to help out the town? He's digging his own grave. Maybe it will take me dying or somehow magically getting a cop ability (remote chance). I've seen Venmar scum. I trained Venmar scum. He's scum. I don't give a shit as to whether you agree with me when I'm alive. I care if you listen when I'm dead because I'm not living that long in this game.
I forgot if I asked you this or not, but have you read Venmar in Xenosaga?
Because I am seeing a lot of parallels in how he handled himself here vs. there.-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1636, Titus wrote:Let's suppose for a second I am wrong on Venmar (I'm not). There I was jailkept for being wrong on a townie who got lynched. No one died. I highlighted Marquis was the only scum who would do such a kill and that I was familiar because of Newbie 1396. They understandably didn't believe me. I got lynched. Then, the jailkeeper jailed Marquis. He was lynched. We won.
Trust me. I know Marquis's scum game and I'd rather not be lynched again to prove it but if that's what it takes.
I don't really see what this has to do with anything other than 'you have been right about things before'-
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In post 1641, Speaker for the Dead wrote:the only thing metalmastin has done is talk about how he's going to wreck da scumz and then proceed to not do any wrecking of da scumz whatsoever
which is basically what he did early on in xenogears
Yeah he's not on my nice list but he's a weak scum read at most and might even just be null. He's also buddying me but I'd expect him to do that in any game.
I kinda feel about him like I felt about him in walking dead, only people were pushing him way harder there so I felt like I was defending him when I was really just denouncing scumreads on him.-
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In post 1665, Rogue wrote:Me and majiffy don't agree on a scumread and neither of us minds if snowstorm flips
Well then the only objection I have is a weak townread (and maybe that he's a somewhat low info lynch but that's becoming less true)-
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In post 1667, Titus wrote:They all collectively only talk about me.
This is probably a great indication that they aren't all scum.-
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In post 1669, Rogue wrote:Can you do a list like the one me and majiffy had please?
want dead
don't wanted dead
etc
Iso me from my earlier response to muffin and take the last group as want dead.
But really I want some more interactions in my own neighborhood because something is wrong.-
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In post 1677, Rogue wrote:Nati AtE'd in our neighborhood so I feel like a dick for suspecting him but I still do and I don't really know what to do about that.
I guess give him a chance to get his head in it? What did he say?
He ATEd like fuck in Tales of You (muffin did too if I recall) and I thought it was really town even though I didn't say that at the time cause F-16 and Desp decided it was the opposite and who was I to argue-
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In post 1684, Titus wrote:Waiting on a hydra head is good, especially one as useful as Mastina.
I am entirely in favor of this, as well.-
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Pretty much what I said to Titus: he harped on Metal Sonic the whole time and refused to coorperate with people and got really pissy (not just 'go away' pissy but actually mad) when suspected-
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In post 1692, Nero Cain wrote:Why are you in favor of wanting MS to wait to claim until Mastin gets here?
Cause I'm not sure about the slot and mastin's easier to read than ms?-
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In post 1696, Nero Cain wrote:"I'll claim but I need to wait on Mastin"
Yeah I wasn't even really reacting to that, I just want mastin around for clarity on the slot.-
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In post 1713, Speaker for the Dead wrote:bork
or whoever is in that neighbourhood
if you guys were planning stuff pregame, did no one mention that objectives 3/4 were only achieved via scum lynch?
I did too, which is why I amended my initial position to trying to make as much of an informed decision within 24 hours as possible rather than a pure policy lynch as I thought about it more. I also thought that taking control of the game and getting #1 and #5 really really fast would be a pretty good baseline even if we didn't manage to hit scum D1 (which, let's face it, happens quite a lot and I wish people wouldn't act like we have a guaranteed scum lynch today, because if we don't hit scum we're in literal nowheresville with objectives and that might not matter to some people but I would like to win the game)
p-edit: If this is about eek, unsure. The way he was going forward with the plan sounded as if he genuinely thought something different was going to happen, but it's also plausible that he just hoped no one would correct him.-
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In post 1718, Speaker for the Dead wrote:this is about feu et vol and how you got a town read on them pregame if they were discussing the plan with you and missed it
i don't care about eek
I'd argue eek is considerably more relevant in that regard considering he was the one pushing the lynch on himself on the ostensible hope we'd get #3 and #4.
My getting a townread on feu early game didn't have really anything to do with whether or not they knew how the objectives worked, so I don't really understand what you're getting at.-
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There isn't anything from either feu or eek pre-game that has any indication that they understood or misunderstood the objectives #3 and #4.
Pregame was actually almost entirely Brian and me until Titus joined in later, but the stuff feu did say about giving metal sonic a chance pinged me in a good way since he's generally an easy target (although I made the addendum that if MS flipped scum I'd be back to it)-
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In post 1723, Speaker for the Dead wrote:also eek is town and feu et vol isn't, so there's that, too, for why it's more relevant
I am not aligned here; I've liked feu in thread (and have explained why recently). There is some weird shit happening in the hood involving read progressions but it isn't coming from feu. He's being tunnely as shit, but I won't call him scum for that.
p-edit: Yeah, decently so.-
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In post 1732, Speaker for the Dead wrote:you're asking what specifically i don't like about them when it's nothing specific, it's their entire body of work. there is no town in it. neither marquis or beast have done ANYTHING this game apart from call titus scum and coast on zero content
And it's possible I fucked up and you're right, but unilaterally deathtunneling a single player is not something I feel that I exclusively see from scum or can empirically say I see more often from scum.
If I knew Titus' alignment then maybe I could make a better judgment about it, but even that would need a few rereads. I asked them to explain themselves and they did at a point in the game that you haven't gotten to yet.
I need to go to bed; if you need any other neighborhood info I can get it to you in the morning.-
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VOTE: Snowstorm
Mostly for solidarity, but here's the one germane thing I want to discuss about him:
What I mentioned earlier is still something worth talking about:
bork wrote:Only thing that pings me is 1083-1116-1120 re:toogeloo looks at least like it could be a fabricated conclusion that he planned to arrive at considering nothing Toog did between those posts should've changed his mind.
Here is the progression for reference:
Spoiler:
Not only has Toog pretty much done nothing in that span to warrant the hard townread (especially after 1121 which doesn't really jive with how sure he is that toog is town cause that should be a pretty legitimate concern), but I can't empathize with a hard townread of Toog AT ALL resulting from vote-all-the-neighborhoods-gate; once again, the possibility of setting the objectives back under the guise of 'scumhunting more' and 'putting a higher % of scum in the lynch pool' is still a pretty obvious potential scum motivation that people are just dismissing out of hand because ????
Especially because toog hasn't exactly come out and flexed a whole lot of scumhunting chops since he did that whole thing (he's made a few information relaying posts I guess). If toog came in and actually started scumhunting with a wide breadth as a result of his vote thing, that's when you can make the argument he's town for doing it.-
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In post 1911, SnowStorm wrote:It doesn't matter to me what Toog has done since the fuck up, it matters to me why he did it in the first place.
I'm just really surprised that you're just super-oversimplifying the obvious WIFOM aspect of what you're talking about in 1116-1120, especially where there are supplemental things like 1121 that should be murking up the read for you and no real evidence that 'why he did it in the first place' is actually a thing that he cares about.
As far as your own question about what is the scum motivation: you can't deny that what he did had a tangible anti-town component and by definition creates potential scum motivation, even if obviously can't be proven one way or the other.-
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In post 1912, Nero Cain wrote:I am SUPER surprised that cloud 9 isn't getting ran up.
I want Nati to come back to the thread.
He had a similar(ish) meltdown in Tales of You but that contained both more 1) anger and 2) content than I've seen this game from him and I want to know why, considering his not being the leading wagon here.-
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In post 1916, Nero Cain wrote:So why Storm and not Titus? They are both calling Toog town for what he did. You think scumstorm is sheeping towntitus?
I am really, really conflicted about Titus (as I've said) and want to vote with Majiffy and Rogue here, who I both think are town.-
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In post 1918, borkjerfkin wrote:You think scumstorm is sheeping towntitus?
Also considering 1109 (Titus) is both before and very close to 1116, 1120 (Snowstorm) that actually isn't implausible.-
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I have lots and lots of experience with muffin. I know exactly how he is.
I'm leaning town on Nero; I understand and sympathsize the desire of wanting to cull players that are doing blatantly anti-town things and calling people out for calling those things towntells, which has kind of been his MO the whole game.
Do you think he's scum?-
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In post 1939, SnowStorm wrote:Am I the only one here who doesn't have anger management issues?
Quite possibly.-
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In post 1947, Macaronis and Cheese wrote:His whole set of exchanges with Titus have been really queer.
On a surface level I didn't like this at first either, but I think he feels it would be pro-town to have Titus out of the game even if she flips town and I think the interactions make sense from that viewpoint.-
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In post 1950, Nero Cain wrote:hey bork, snow flips scum? do we lynch toog or is this scum defending town?
This game is taxing enough without trying to form associative tells pre-flip-
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In post 1953, Titus wrote:Can we just lynch Feu? Nero's vote is blantantly survivalistic and I could see voting there too if we won't lynch Venmar.
Nero is under no pressure I don't get this-
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In post 1964, Titus wrote:All the scum were on my wagons
Empirically, no, they probably aren't. That is generally not how scum play this game.-
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In post 1970, Titus wrote:Feu, Nero and Venmar are definitely scum.
I still think you're dead wrong on Venmar.-
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I'm still skimming but there is like a 0% chance I'm joining this.-
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In post 2527, Speaker for the Dead wrote:I have been waiting for you. muffina and I are ironing out some reads still. he is working on a big long post but he is still 15 pages behind in reading everything more thoroughly.
Titus was hitting a lot of gut town notes early on even though I hate pretty much all her reads (like Venmar is one of my strongest townreads). I don't think the arrogance and over-the-top-ness really reads scum to me. I'd like to probably not lynch her today.
Mac and cheese has not done anything useful to the point where I actually forgot them in my reads list. Don't really care if they die but I wouldn't take it to the bank.
Feu read was town early and I guess is deteriorating due to lack of engagement. What's overtly scummy from him?
I'd probably take town Rogue to the bank at this point, yeah, but honestly it should be incredibly apparent lategame what alignment notscience is.
Talk to me about your Majiffy read.-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 2538, Rogue wrote:In post 2537, borkjerfkin wrote:honestly it should be incredibly apparent lategame what alignment notscience is.
It should be incredibly apparent now
Like holy shit my post count this game already beats my post count of like every scumgame I've had except maybe fea
Yeah I'm super duper not worried about you guys.
@metal sonic: she used the same verbage for a thing one time. You can't look at that in a bubble.-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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I don't think mollie would be posting these 'the game is in meltdown' posts like she is if she were scum. She's one of the few people I know who plays from that kind of 'overall thread health' angle and I've only seen her do it when she's town.
If people are shitposting (and they are) and she's scum I don't see her trying to curtail it in the manner in which she's doing it.
As for muffin he can probably fake all the attitude stuff I guess but I don't think that's what's happening here.-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 2537, borkjerfkin wrote:In post 2527, Speaker for the Dead wrote:I have been waiting for you. muffina and I are ironing out some reads still. he is working on a big long post but he is still 15 pages behind in reading everything more thoroughly.
Titus was hitting a lot of gut town notes early on even though I hate pretty much all her reads (like Venmar is one of my strongest townreads). I don't think the arrogance and over-the-top-ness really reads scum to me. I'd like to probably not lynch her today.
Mac and cheese has not done anything useful to the point where I actually forgot them in my reads list. Don't really care if they die but I wouldn't take it to the bank.
Feu read was town early and I guess is deteriorating due to lack of engagement. What's overtly scummy from him?
I'd probably take town Rogue to the bank at this point, yeah, but honestly it should be incredibly apparent lategame what alignment notscience is.
Talk to me about your Majiffy read.
I just read feu's wall post and I think they're town again; they're hitting a lot of things I'm having the same thoughts about.-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 2550, Speaker for the Dead wrote:bork is being bork. When I played against him in FakeGod's Touhou Upick2 I actually found it rather annoying that he was playing a sit-back-and-make-observations style of play mostly because the observations were, for the most part, accurate and it's really hard to do anything about someone who plays like that when you're scum and he's not giving you room. He's doing the same thing here and I've either agreed with the conclusions he came to or at least understood and followed the thought process where I wasn't in agreement. I really wasn't trying to be abrasive to him before he started responding to me like I was intentionally being a dick. I think what I said about the way he was treating the objectives was true and it is one major thing I fundamentally disagree with him about (even though he acknowledged it was a high risk high reward thing, I just don't see the logic in ignoring a town read on someone to pursue objectives). And I really wasn't directing the stop posting comment at him, it's just that he was the one who mentioned he wanted Nati to post and I know better than anyone that Nati most likely hasn't read shit this game because of the number of posts in this game in such a short period of time. But I've decided to stop even interacting with him because I know I can be overly hostile and mollie wants to work with him so she can talk to him instead. It's kind of funny that Notty thinks this has anything to do with anything outside of a clash of personalities, but hey, that is why Notty is best treated like he isn't even in the game.
I have a different view of our exchance but I will actually just apologize for going off the handle if it means we can actually have a working relationship this game