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In post 24, GreenLiquid wrote:
I don't agree with this and it feels kind of LAMIST to me. Can you elaborate on why you think Raskie's answer is towny?
I don't expect him to be bored if he's talking to a scumbuddy beforehand. Though, it could be scoping out the playlist, I guess.
I guess, but his first post was multiple hours after the day began so it's not as if he could have gone straight from conversation with his partner to the game thread. Feels like a stretch.
Basically because it doesn't appear very reasonable, and feels like you're trying to be on record townreading someone more than it feels like you are actually sorting Raskie.
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Post #215 (isolation #7) » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:20 am
Postby CheekyTeeky »
In post 59, Iconeum wrote:I agree that putting Lovebird in a scumpool, but in the same post mentioning that is has no reason to act like that if scum, is just weird.
Still like how he tries to steer conversation away, because that was leading us nowhere.
Rask town, a lot of effort into trying to keep discussion going/getting it started.
N_M is out of his town meta, where he usually votes his first scumread (very) early, so let's see how that develops.
Lovebird town vibes
ZZZX weak first post
GL early town read, too much effort in discussing townread/NAI with lovebird, doesn't feel like a scum play
Christopher afk
Bujabers contradiction is the most scummy thing so far imo, let's see where that leads us
VOTE: Bujaber
Fake busy work. Progression on Bu feels unnatural while he fans the flames on NM wagon.
In post 69, Raskolnikov wrote:@Christopher what do you think of the love, me, and GL interaction
In post 47, Raskolnikov wrote:As for lovebird. What she did was definitely pro-town in what it accomplished, but as a tell I think it's complicated. For a newer player I would absolutely townread that because new scum do avoid attention and also aren't even necessarily aware they'd get townread for being pro-town/lamist. OTOH giving lovebird that would be careless, she has some scum games already here with competent level of play and is from offsite before that (not to put paranoia on her either though which would be unfair). That said the thought process itself adds up and 37 is some nuance at least so even if it's "graspy" I don't think it's shallow and don't feel it's scummy.
On the whole I agree with your 47.
I think Lovebird's 37 is pro-town, and I kind of respect the hunt. I see where he was going with it, but I read it more of an integration between RvS and day 1 as opposed to a genuine read. It's similar to how I read Bu's opening.
On the substantive anxious/bored vs checking profiles before-or-after the day started, it's NAI for me.
In post 25, Not_Mafia wrote:The more things seem to change, the more they stay the same
I want to focus on this from Not_Mafia. Even after we were moving on from RvS during the whole love read, Not_Mafia comes in with this? And then follows up with that? Hi Not_Mafia. How are you?
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Post #217 (isolation #9) » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:25 am
Postby CheekyTeeky »
In post 76, ZZZX wrote:I just feel people trying to talk about people not posting enough or not giving enough content at the 2nd (or 3rd?) day is really... fake
Lets keep it at that
VOTE: Raskolnikov
Fake
Town read you and now you make this bad vote :/ I'm hoping it's a reaction test.
In post 161, BuJaber wrote:Shit I missed that chris had a townlean on me.
Okay
1 scum in {NM, chris, Major, Icon}
1 scum in {GL, Rask, Lovebird}.
In post 169, BuJaber wrote:I get that people might disagree with it as a strategy but it's natural for me.
I am not locking myself to these people as only possible scum.
For example for the GL, Rask, love pool I strongly believe I am right for thinking that discussion was intentionally encouraged by scum. So until they flip or I can confidently townread all three that pool will remain as it is.
In post 173, BuJaber wrote:Icon you're not getting it. I don't know any other way to explain it.
Like, I'm really trying to understand here because it's important. But if you are town, then with the exception of 1 player, you are putting every single other player in the brackets and saying 'i'm not locking myself to these people as only possible scum'. Who else are you going to include here, then?
On top of that, the only player you are not including, zzzzzzzzx, you read as null. Not as town. Null. That means you are scumreading everyone else.
On top on top of that, you are voting NM which is the easier wagon to go on. There's no real other attempts at sorting players, and the 'waiting for information' is just a scumread imo.
This is so BS. Stop scum reading people who are trying to sort the game for not having their reads locked down yet...why tf are you only calling out Bu for the NM vote???
Chris has done nothing that looks genuinely towny and seems to want to vote anybody that's under suspicion instead of sorting for himself. I'll go into this more when I have time.
NM is most likely town from meta and for being the first person scum have tried to wagon.
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Post #249 (isolation #24) » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:49 pm
Postby CheekyTeeky »
In post 247, Raskolnikov wrote:I wasn't serious when I RVS voted, but I was when I actually skimmed him and started townreading most other players. You can vote someone in rvs and then start actually scumreading them later even if it's the same vote.
You can, but at what point did you announce your RVS vote had turned serious?
What bugs me more than your sloppy wagon on NM (because scum shouldn't be so silly to try and lynch him knowing he's an easy mislynch player) is you going on about lack of content and participation yet you're not moving your vote around except in one case to OMGUS a player, but you keep pushing theone player YOU KNOW isn't going to fight back or give anyone any decent content. It makes me think you don't actually want content and you're just trying to look townie. I think someone else called you LAMIST for it.
In post 251, CheekyTeeky wrote:In his town meta he is a troll. He looks pretty trolly here.
How do you think his meta is his scum meta here?
Trolling afaik is NAI for him.
As town I thought he seemed a bit more interested in the game than as scum and at least was usually throwing his vote around early.
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Post #259 (isolation #28) » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:35 pm
Postby CheekyTeeky »
In post 257, Raskolnikov wrote:To be honest, I was wondering if you were whiteknighting N_M because his ISO doesn't suggest anything that could possibly give a townread, but I guess the "my scumreads are pushing him!" is a thing people do sometimes.
I could be entirely wrong about NM on the basis that I don't think anybody could read him. To simplify everything because I might be unclear my logic is as follows and has nothing to do with being conf biased:
1. Nobody can read NM consistently enough for him to be a hard scumread/D1 lynch.
2. Players have a higher probability of rolling town
3. It would be safer for town to assume NM is also town until we can PoE
4. Lack of content in this game means nobody has been able to PoE
5. Scum are pushing for a NM lynch.
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Post #266 (isolation #29) » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:09 pm
Postby CheekyTeeky »
In post 261, BuJaber wrote:I find it a little strange you are so against the NM lynch. You admit yourself nobody can read NM with much consistency. Your scumreads are voting there but so am I.
I find it strange that you think you can read him well enough that you're not considering other scum reads. You're allowed to find it strange. I think my logic is fine.
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Post #268 (isolation #31) » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:12 pm
Postby CheekyTeeky »
In post 264, BuJaber wrote:Not to mention cheeky says she has a read on NM but then tries to back it up by saying scum are pushing that wagon. She doesn't sound confident about NM which begs the question why claim you have a read on him at all.
I thought I was pretty clear about why I thought NM is likely town? I also thought my explanation on why I consider his wagon scummy was crystal...
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Post #269 (isolation #32) » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:16 pm
Postby CheekyTeeky »
In post 263, GreenLiquid wrote:Saying that Not_Mafia can't be read, like he's some kind of Mafia enigma, seems like nonsense in light of the above. If the games I looked at aren't representative, let me know, but besides that I don't see any reason not to suspect him right now.
Can we talk about other scum reads you have? How do you feel about Ico and Chris?
Chris has done nothing that looks genuinely towny and seems to want to vote anybody that's under suspicion instead of sorting for himself. I'll go into this more when I have time.
NM is most likely town from meta and for being the first person scum have tried to wagon.
Major's afk, and i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
tbh, I'm null on ZZZX and Rask.
leanscum on no content Not_Mafia.
How is this guy not at L-1?
Care to explain?
One thing that you're apparently tunneling me over is being the first to post substance.
I posted my reads and this was your reply. I started the NM wagon and you scumlean me.
Can you give a brief explanation for your reads? I feel like it's pretty easy to throw a list together like that. Scum faking readslists and pushing a bad wagon is pretty common.
In his town meta he is a troll. He looks pretty trolly here.
How do you think his meta is his scum meta here?
Setting aside your meta (which doesn't help us much here, in this game), what is your read of NM?
I'm kind of annoyed that I keep getting asked this question. I think he's most likely town because of the wagon on him that's taken the focus of the game. I didn't see convincing arguments on why he's scum except from GL and even that is based on meta.
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Post #276 (isolation #35) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:41 am
Postby CheekyTeeky »
Christopher aside from NM who do you scum read if you had to choose right now? I'm taking myself off the table because I feel that's too safe an answer because I'm disagreeing with the majority of players.
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Post #280 (isolation #37) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:28 pm
Postby CheekyTeeky »
In post 279, GreenLiquid wrote:@CheekyTeeky: what is your read on BuJaber? I think his is the only slot you didn't really give any clear comment on during your catch-up posts.
Ok first I'll say the rest of your post I haven't quoted is great posting and I agree with all your reads except I'm paranoid about Ico having pocketed you by applying secondary pressure to your reads like on Bu but I agree he is less suspect than Chris.
Now Bu I will have to look into deeper, I didn't see anything on my catch up that pinged me immediately and I'll admit I might've neglected to critically read his posts whilst distracted by an Ico/Chris possibility. I will say that it's pretty advanced play for scum to be discussing pair relationships like Bu has with Ico/Chris. I'm not familiar with Bu or his meta so not sure if that is outside of his scumrange?
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Post #281 (isolation #38) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:58 pm
Postby CheekyTeeky »
Bu
42 - critically assesses Love in a towny way. I disagree with the logic but the intent is good. The only way I could see this being scummy is in a Bu/Love scum team.
62 Feels towny - I think scum are unlikely to explain themselves in such depth because they think it'll make them more suspicious. Lack of self-awareness that I think scum would show in a similar scenario.
Skimming the rest, he is defensive but it feels genuine and he's continually updating his reads whilst being pushed. I also love his game progressing tactics.
Unless Bu is some kind of scum genius I don't see him being scum here. I feel like GL may be in a bit of a biased tunnel with his initial impression of him.
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Post #284 (isolation #40) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:33 pm
Postby CheekyTeeky »
Just skimmed Lovebird, I can def see why theyre pinging people but I don't see them being scum either. I liked them looking to sort players from the get go in RVS - the whole Rask did a towny thing which I think is actually scummy but they were looking for clues none-the-less.
Chris/Rask both look to be posturing in RVS. Can anyone else see it?
In post 76, ZZZX wrote:I just feel people trying to talk about people not posting enough or not giving enough content at the 2nd (or 3rd?) day is really... fakeLets keep it at thatVOTE: Raskolnikov
While I agree that activity is NAI, I Feel Rask has made enough other posts to not scumread him.
Would like Ico to expand on what posts make him think Rask is town.
Kind of bothered me that he liked Bu early but quickly turned it into a scum read about some kind of contridiction. Progression didn't feel natural.
In post 284, CheekyTeeky wrote:Just skimmed Lovebird, I can def see why theyre pinging people but I don't see them being scum either. I liked them looking to sort players from the get go in RVS - the whole Rask did a towny thing which I think is actually scummy but they were looking for clues none-the-less.
Chris/Rask both look to be posturing in RVS. Can anyone else see it?
Explain? You think it was scummy?
I guess I don't really remember anything chris said.
Explain Chris Rask in RVS?
More thoughts...
Zzzx is fine. Would like more interactions with others though. I think he saw what I'm seeing with Rask. A lot of points made about Rask using activity as AI also fits the hypocrisy in voting NM while complaining about lack of content.
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Post #296 (isolation #44) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:05 pm
Postby CheekyTeeky »
In post 295, Lovebird wrote:You think it's scum scoping out the playerlist? I guess, but I wouldn't think he'd mention anything from the profiles that he found then.
Good point. I think it's scummy because as scum myself I tend to research the playerlist. As GL and Ico said it looked LAMIST, like "look at how hard I want to solve this game that I look at people's info/meta" Being bored isnt really a valid argument online in 2018. Imo.
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Post #302 (isolation #45) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:00 pm
Postby CheekyTeeky »
I think GL is the kind of player that will get easier to spot as scum as the game progresses. I think I'd need a scum claim to lynch him D1. Didn't like that last post from Bu it felt omgusy. Sigh.
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Post #306 (isolation #46) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:26 pm
Postby CheekyTeeky »
I don't get why you're acting like the game has to end now? We have more than a week left and Rask is speaking as if the day is about to end and we don't have time to scum hunt. This is even more ridiculous given that people have started moving their votes around a bit.
In post 306, CheekyTeeky wrote:I don't get why you're acting like the game has to end now? We have more than a week left and Rask is speaking as if the day is about to end and we don't have time to scum hunt. This is even more ridiculous given that people have started moving their votes around a bit.
You're absolutely right, I want to see a flip soon.
How is it pro-town to continue pushing for a low info flip when others are still sorting?
You argue that noone is towny enough yet you don't allow them time to be town read.
In post 291, CheekyTeeky wrote:I think he saw what I'm seeing with Rask. A lot of points made about Rask using activity as AI also fits the hypocrisy in voting NM while complaining about lack of content.
Go into detail how this is hypocritical, BTW. I don't have to be active myself to metaread someone for activity if I think it's AI for them, although actually that's also wrong because N_M being around the game start but disinterested at that point isn't even the same as saying low activity -> scum. You can say, okay, rask is pushing what looks like easy targets for what looks like easy reasons and I feel like that's scum motivated, but you're implying there's something scummy in my reasoning or reads and not getting specifically down to what it is.
You can split hairs on my argument all you want, it just makes you scummier.
In post 7, GreenLiquid wrote:VOTE: Christopher for not having an avatar. You're the goons!
Obvious townslip by Christopher, GL fell for it.
GGEZ
VOTE: GreenLiquid
Obvious town slip in what universe? This better be an RVS joke.
Considering it was my first post in the game, chances are that it was, in fact, an RVS joke.
Cheeky, you mention that I'm 'stirring the flames' on NM wagon, while in fact i've been the strongest opponent to an NM lynch this game.
Now that I'm done tunneling on Buj, I like your case on Christopher.
Several mentions on Buj where he states his actions are NAI, but townreads him anyway. His push on NM actually feels real, but it's the easiest path for scum to legit push.
In post 59, Iconeum wrote:N_M is out of his town meta, where he usually votes his first scumread (very) early, so let's see how that develops.
Lovebird town vibes
Sorry didn't read objectively after this post. Yep you can be town, your ISO wasn't as bad as I initially thought on a reread. I just think your reasons for TRing rask are pretty easy and not AI especially now that he seems to be doing the opposite to what you initially town read him for.
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Post #337 (isolation #52) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:01 pm
Postby CheekyTeeky »
In post 334, ZZZX wrote:Page 10 and I need a break! phew been working on my disseration for the last few days non stop and I've been super busy, Submission in three days so wish me luck~
My last 4 years were for this moment huh.
Anyway To leave you with something here are my reads until page 10:
Strong -> Weak read
Town: BuJaber, GreenLiquid, Cheeky
Null?Neutral: LoveBird
Scum: Raskolnikov(
Am somewhat starting to reconsider this read honestly but need to ISO him and do a PbPA
)/Iconeum
NotMafia: Notmafia
pedit: i want to re-read you and read those again as well after I full catch up.
Can you sell me on your reads then before I sleep? Its 4:30 and I am dead tired.
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Post #346 (isolation #53) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:37 pm
Postby CheekyTeeky »
In post 338, GreenLiquid wrote:That said, scum reading Cheeky Teeky and Not_Mafia does make some sense. I'm mixed on Cheeky, but her behavior since replacing in is perfectly consistent with a Cheeky / NM scum team.
I'm kind of offended that you think I'd be so thuggish in my chainsaw defense of my scum buddy. I could tell you reasons why that makes no sense but it all boils down to WIFOM.
In regards to my vote on Rask vs Chris, I use my vote a little differently to others. I'll let you know when I'm ready to lynch. It could very well end up being a Chris lynch.
In post 164, BuJaber wrote:I saw his comments that my posts are NAI but did not see that he also claimed I was a townlean. The townlean isn't the problem alone but he hasn't given any reason for me to move from null to townlean as you pointed out.
But my list is very good for associations. Say rask flips scum for example. It clears Love and GL for me (until lylo at least).
Say NM flips scum. I'd focus less on you and more at the GL/Love/Rask trio.
TBF, how successful has your early pool strategy been? I mean no disrespect, but its validity is built on a house of sand.
You're developing scum pools based on very early/RVS reads which kind of lock you in. You then use those reads to confidently narrow-down your scumpool.
On one hand, it's as valid as any other early-game strategy to identify scum. On the other hand, you're kind of locked-in to your reads lest you get accused of waffling (SCUM BEHAVIOR!!! ) or being wrong and you're letting a scum slip by.
Posts like this read scum!Christopher to me. Bujaber is making a point about Chris' inconsistent read progression on him.
Chris says many things Bu has done is NAI but in a lot of waffling words a few posts later says he's town. Rather than address how his read changed, he attacks BuJaber's sorting method.
Honestly both Rask and Chris ping me for starting the NM wagon. I find both their entrances are awful and posturing town.
In post 163, Christopher wrote:Setting aside the above meta, I read BuJaber as slight town. From my POV in this game, his content has been generally pro-town.
I acknowledge that I need to be careful of being pocketed by Bu if he's scum, but that's more of a day 2 analysis (imo).
This is disgusting, he hasn't explained anything about his TR at all while trying to look like he has. Next he talks about Bu pocketing him after accusing Bu earlier of being scummy for rejecting his townread. In a way this spews Bu town for me.
In post 100 we see Chris' readlist where he puts Rask at null...on the same tier as NM. All of his content to this point avoids directly analysing rask but kind of talks around Rask. Looking through his ISO he's quoted Rask but prefers to engage BuJaber. So it's not like he hasn't had the opportunity to develop a read on Rask.
Rasks unvote/revote on NM and his LAMIST ways are pinging me harder than my points on Chris currently. I'm open to discussion on either of my reads but pretty happy with where my vote is currently.
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Post #353 (isolation #56) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:08 pm
Postby CheekyTeeky »
In post 352, BuJaber wrote:Like yeah there's 'towncred' motivation but killing a partner day 1 is a bad idea you don't do it unless it can't be stopped.
I have a bad habit of bussing my scum buddies lol. I know it's not optimal play D1 in a micro though, it's like a strong urge I have to fight when playing scum.
I know some people think it is optimal play for whatever reason, but I don't think you should rule out associatives based on optimal bussing strategy.
I'm not telling you to scumread us, I'm trying to tell you you're being naive and i hope you haven't incorporated that logic into your scum pools.
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Post #373 (isolation #57) » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:37 am
Postby CheekyTeeky »
In post 360, Raskolnikov wrote:If I can start decently townreading any of the town that necessarily exists in {Chris, ZZZX, Cheeky, N_M} it'd be a big help.
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Post #374 (isolation #58) » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:45 am
Postby CheekyTeeky »
In post 367, Christopher wrote:Cheeky, I'd like to follow-up on this analysis of NM from GL. How does GL's reads of NM's previous games affect or influence your read of NM in this game? You dismiss the idea that NM is/maybe scum because of meta, but what about this game specifically?
It's made me agree to disagree. I've been pretty clear about my read on NM coming from the circumstances I entered the game into. He is a low info push especially in RVS, I suspect that he is town because he was the focus of the game - about to be hammered when I entered and noone is admitting it's a policy lynch at best. Focusing on a low info slot deprives town from looking at other players and in particular gave Rask an excuse not to scum hunt elsewhere and base all his reads on activity. The whole thing is super fishy to me. If NM is scum then Rask deserves a Paragon for calling it in his first post before anyone else had entered. I believe it is optimal for town to PoE NMs alignment instead of lynching him in a low content environment. I'll certainly consider lynching him if I'm town reading most of you by the end of the day but that seems very unlikely right now.
Chris can you give me an updated readslist please?
In post 91, Raskolnikov wrote:VOTE: not mafia
Fuck it, I want to wagon not mafia now.
In post 109, Raskolnikov wrote:N_M's been posting elsewhere onsite the whole time which to some extent just makes me want to say fuck him. Icon's statement there is also consistent with my skims and was mainly why I think icon might be paying attention, though from experience saying meta on people you've played isn't that difficult either when scum so eh.