Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[OnTheMark]

So reading now what’s the major points?

[OnTheMark]

And FYI fallout is an amazing series of games people. Y’all should play it.

[OnTheMark]

If one post is scummy, it's scummy. I mean, I base my reads on what is here. If someone is not posting much, I base it on what they have posted.

I did not like the posts from Vent earlier today, so if my vote wasn't there they would be now.

The way I read it, he's saying the Ouroboros, Realmen and I are a scum team because we voted together. I'm the only one he even bothered to do a half-assed case on.

If it takes me getting lynched for people to actually lynch Ventriloquist and verylazy, so be it. I don't have an ego too big to take a mislynch day 1.

I wanna lynch very lazy. Page one seemed all town except that slot.

VOTE: Unvote

[OnTheMark]

Kokichi Oma replaces verylazy.
Looking for replacement for Nero Cain.

[OnTheMark]

Oh Miller cc? What the hell. Hahaha

If I am right on Kokichi being scum both Miller claims are town if there is indeed a Miller cc.

[OnTheMark]

I'm like 100% not the Scum kill, I would assume.

How ironic. Unless a vig shot this?

@Kokichi — How did you read ManWithNoName’s ISO and just claim ironic and ask if a vig shot them when the primary suspect they had was you? This reads a lot like wishful thinking.

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

[OnTheMark]

[color=green*]VOTE: Kokichi Oma[/color]

Intentionally breaking the tag of the prior post since it didn’t render properly. Apparently my emphasized vote was too strong for its own good.

[OnTheMark]

A vig did shoot him tho?

Running a search for the person claiming to vig them now but I have reasons to doubt that.

[OnTheMark]

Yeah something doesn’t add up with that.

Because I really don’t think scum no killed.

I need a better picture to understand what is going on because shit doesn’t add up here.

[OnTheMark]

I have company over give me a bit to read the situation. I think scum fucked with something or are using a common assumption.

[OnTheMark]

FYI if it becomes relevant N1 my replacement apparently was affected by radiation and submitted no action.

That will become relevant when I flip. That’s all I plan on claiming and I think if anyone has milk I will be your friend forever. Milk make people strong. Mark hopes people find milk of human kindness soon.

[OnTheMark]

I didnt know flavor knowledge was going to be necessary to solve the game.

It's not. I remember being told it wasn't.

It isn’t but I was crumbing my flavor and ETL pointed it out to everyone.

Thanks /half serious half sarcastic

[OnTheMark]

Wraith, Kaede, Impossibear

Tchill

Jungle Kokichi

Maria

Ouroboros

These people continue to need to vote Tchill's replacement so we can get a VC and be done with this ridiculous L-1 thing. No one else should vote Tchill, but I can't be arsed to actually do an FOS vote count rn.

Non bolded names are already on the wagon, but should stay on the wagon. We will unvote at our earliest opportunity after GiF votecounts. Remember, we get the hammer and to hammer today is a scumclaim.

OTM, there's a list of claims that was accurate not long ago in my ISO. If you skim backwards you should be able to find it pretty quickly.

~Jingle

I skimmed and had trouble.

I did a search for Bear - vig and didn’t find anything and read the iso.

I see where you crumb vig.

Like I see it. But it doesn’t make sense. Like I am trying to figure out where the scum kill went. Because if you are a town vig, scum no killed or also killed man with no name.

[OnTheMark]

I didnt know flavor knowledge was going to be necessary to solve the game.

It's not. I remember being told it wasn't.

It isn’t but I was crumbing my flavor and ETL pointed it out to everyone.

Thanks /half serious half sarcastic

sorry but i mean, it's not like i'm that was super secret message or something.

anyway, kaede is an ic. we strongly believe there to be a protective role on towns side. also we're bulletproof. so there's a few possibilities. jingle doesn't think we got shot. most likely scum trying for the ic who was protected.

I agree and disagree with this.

I don’t know how much more I should say.

But the one kill

really confuses

me.

[OnTheMark]

Can you link the claim post for me?

I am hella confused.

[OnTheMark]

VC 1.03

Tchill13 (4):

verylazy, Impossibear, davesaz, Wraith

wilky (1):

Tchill13

Ouroboros (1):

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE

Ramcius (3):

wilky, Ventriloquist, Alchemist21

Nero Cain (2):

Dunnstral, MariaR

MariaR (1):

Nero Cain

Ventriloquist (2):

Ouroboros, hebichan

verylazy (1):

Kaede Akamatsu

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE (1):

ManWithNoName

ManWithNoName (1):

Ankamius

Not Voting:

Ramcius

With

18

alive,

10

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-20 12:33:41)

MWNN

's vote is probably the easiest, lamest copout vote I've seen all game. There's literally no content there. It's null af, especially considering how much other content there is to analyze so far. Lynching that slot would be a waste - let the vig take care of them.

Not feeling tchill anymore, tbh. I know Jingle really think he's scum, but 1) I really don't like the wagon company and 2) Wraith is worse.

VOTE: Wraith

Nero Cain (2):

Dunnstral, MariaR

MariaR (1):

Nero Cain

Dunnstral, is this vote solely based on their interaction and nothing else? What about anything else going on in the thread?

p-edit: I have a life, and I'm not going to apologize for that.

If you ever call me a bitch again, not only will I replace out and blacklist you, but I will do everything in my power to get you banned for it. Don't do it again.

ETL

So you decided here to vig NMNM?

[OnTheMark]

ok. there's too many variables to guess at this point and i don't really want to risk outing any other PRs today. know what i'm saying?

pedit: no we were gonna shoot jungle actually.

Not asking you to put PRs?

I am just asking for the claim post you want me to read.

Kinda confused on order of operations here.
How would the vig take care of MWNN on post 507 yet the decision came after?
Can you show me a crumb after the post you’re talking about with Orborous (sorry if I butcher the name)?

[OnTheMark]

what do you mean crumb to ouroboros? we didn't decide to shoot mwnn until after the flip. thread was closed

You answered what I needed.

I was looking for a crumb after Ouroboros’s advice and there isn’t one.

I just I don’t know what to say here, but I feel it in my gut something is off.

I don’t know how to explain it.

[OnTheMark]

understandably you're doing your best, it's a long read... but just saying "it seems off" irritates me because legit gave you all the info i have and that's not something i can answer for you

I am reading. I was hoping to also have a claim post for everyone too. :/

I just can’t explain some of it yet.

I need faith that you’ll understand why I am confused later.

Just remember I didn’t act N1.

[OnTheMark]

ok. don't claim though? like why do you need to?

Yay for catch-22.
If only I had a way around that.

[OnTheMark]

OTM nothing you've said or done so far has made any sense, just thought I'd let you know.

Good because I am hella confused. If I wasn’t confused I would be making sense.

The one thing I am relatively sure on is you are scum,

RC pushing through a lynch on day one is NAI for him. He’s bussed buddies before on day one. Mainly I need a way to put some things together and get a picture. A picture that involves a missing kill.

[OnTheMark]

@impossibear Can you please define the modifier “gated”? It has different meanings on different sites. I don’t want you to state your gate. I want you to define the modifier.

[OnTheMark]

Who are your town and scumreads right now? I am having trouble heat mapping.

Pedit above is to impossibear

Partially yeah. I am trying to peace together somethings. I can’t quite explain coherently right now.

[OnTheMark]

It's just funny when someone says. No way I'll be killed. and then they are dead. How is that scummy? Explain.

Because of the one kill.

At the time I thought it was a scum faction kill (and until I sort ETL could be scum kill)
Assuming for the moment ETL is a vig and did the shot
Then you would have been leaking that you knew it was a vig
And if ETL is just scum then you’d be working with him claiming the kill as a vig.

Mainly it was an odd structure. Generally with one kill people don’t think vig.

What originally pinged me about your slot was very lazy’s entry, then I isoed you and found that.

[OnTheMark]

100% luck, 0% skill

when all ins are free you're bound to river eventually. whatever

--

Impossibear has received a quest, the quest was given by me. they need to perform the following actions today to complete the quest:

1. be vote #3 on a wagon today that reaches L-1, this L-1 wagon must be reflected in the vote count
2. be the hammer on today's lynch

successfully performing the above actions will complete the quest and allow them to be publically daycopped tomorrow so we get another IC or confscum.

quests changes every night and GIF will tell me what the new quest is

I am definitely cool with this.

We need to get a wagon to l-1.

And the daycop is tomorrow yeah?

[OnTheMark]

Congratulations on identifying my town game, I guess.

Ank is town.

[OnTheMark]

Ouroboros still town obviously
Ankamius town
Wraith town
Kaede town
Alchemist21 town

that's my 100% list, I'll branch out from there

Okay I am legit scared.

I agree with RC.

Help. Me. I must be going insane.

[OnTheMark]

Thank you. That clears up a lot, for us anyway.

UNVOTE:

It does and it doesn’t.

Ugh :/

It does fit with the Miller claim as either alignment though.

Blah. Feels wrong impossibear wrote them off so fast.

[OnTheMark]

Ouroboros still town obviously
Ankamius town
Wraith town
Kaede town
Alchemist21 town

that's my 100% list, I'll branch out from there

Okay I am legit scared.

I agree with RC.

Help. Me. I must be going insane.

can you explain where literally any of these reads came from

RC because when he busses he doesn’t talk about anyone else.
Ank is a because I know her read.
Wraith is because his reasons are good for attacking my predecessor’s slot. Wrong conclusion but I see where he is coming from.
Kaede is the IC.
Alchemist21 is more a gut read.

[OnTheMark]

How do the Miller claims line up with Kaede's and RMOJ's roles here based on this mod philosophy? 2 millers which could be cleared on mod Meta (and at least one on flavor) plus an IC plus a role that makes a second IC (and confirms itself with it) seems like a lot in my opinion for an 18-p game.

Spoiler: Philosophy, as it pertains to balance in this game:

Roles that are confirmed to exist:

IC- Unlynchable
Jungle's Conditional Hidden JOAT- Unlynchable and has to claim to have any use.
Scum Loyal Roleswapper- Useable to put the strongest scumrole in the strongest scum's hands.

Roles Claimed to Exist:

Miller x2- Negative utility
Non Weak Hider
BP Gated Vig- Unlynchable and Unkillable.

Roles That Exist By Thread/Role Information:

Town Protective- Missing kill N1 while I was an objectively terrible shot and Tchill was a never in 1000 years shot means that Kaede was likely nightkilled and protected. Not unlynchable at all given my Role PM.
2-3 Other Scum Power Roles- There is no utility to the Roleswapper unless scum has useful PR's. Probably one for each member of the scumteam. My guess is an investigative to help find the vig/IC (rolecop?) and something to fuck with Jungle and us (1-shot strongman (full strongman doesn't make sense)/Rolestopper/Roleblocker, etc.).

From this point of view, town is actually underpowered. I'd expect one or two weak Power roles, something along the lines of a tracker (Not likely to give innos or guilties, but not something scum can straight up ignore either) OR the rest of Jungle's JOAT abilities to be remarkably powerful. Flavorwise, it's probably the former, as Garvey's quests are apparently a meme about how annoying and useless they are.

The possible guilties/innos match up (1 guilty 3 unlynchables or 4 unlynchables against a 4 person scumteam is more than fair to scum). If the town decides to treat the millers as additional IC's that's on them and isn't worth balancing around.

On the flavor side of things, our flavor is pretty obviously a powerrole. I'd bet any other flavors that are 'clearing' would be obvious too, therefore a flavor massclaim wouldn't actually be that helpful. I disagree with ETL that wilky's flavor makes him autotown, hence his position in the lynchable pool of my reads. I just specifically don't want to lynch him today.

Hey, projectmatt, vote Ramcius. It's not about lynching him or his alignment, but is crazy protown.

Also, Jungle, Kokichi and Maria need to do the same.

I have proof that some of this is wrong.

I will not say more.

Are your reads based on this foundation?

[OnTheMark]

So PTM why do you think I'm scum again? Because your reasons have proven to be wrong.

1) They haven’t.
2) You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Either you didn’t know about the claim and therefore it is ridiculous to think vig with only one kill
OR
You did see the claim and mention the vig with a bit of foreshadowing

Which is it?

[OnTheMark]

At that point in the game, I actually hadn't seen Impossibear claim Vig. Had I been scum, I would have known she was vig and no reason to make that post. But, that's neither here nor there.

As I was saying, in that point in the game I'd only ISO'd about 3 people. So, I'm not quite sure why that post would make you think I'm scum. And based on the posts of other people, they are saying the same thing. How does that make you feel?

So you said you hadn’t seen the claim.

Why did you think vig then hmmm?

[OnTheMark]

OnTheMark replaces hebichan.

That awkward feeling.

@hebichan like I like you as a person but uhm this is awkward as fuck.

[OnTheMark]

I think this game has 1 deepwolf

I would think it is possible. I just am confused on some pieces.

[OnTheMark]

Ok we might be solved here.

Please fill me in more as I read your holiness

[OnTheMark]

Wraith and Dunn are 2/3 remaining scum

Undecided on third, leaning towards it being you

Gonna crash now. That’s not might be solved and none of those would be deep wolves from what I have read so far.

If there is a deep wolf it is oroborous or your hydra.

[OnTheMark]

The player said they werent the scum kill, but ironically they died, hence Kokichi's comment, it makes 100% sense to me dunno why it doesnt make sense to you.

That’s the core of the issue chica.

If Kokichi didn’t see the vig claim there is no reason to think they weren’t the scum kill.

If Kokichi did see the vig claim then they outright lied.

A typical response to a weird kill without a vig claim is “why the hell would scum kill them?”, not vig hunting.

[OnTheMark]

Generally when something doesn’t make sense or goes against the grain Kokichi has a response like
viewtopic.php?p=10069180#p10069180

Kokichi doesn’t do shit like instantly trust. That’s not Kokichi’s nature.

[OnTheMark]

Well, I mean I felt like Dave was scummier than Wilky here and I haven't really changed my mind so....what else do you feel like I should be doing?

I'd like it if you could expand on your dave/wilky viewpoint.

it's mostly the same as b4. I don't really see scum Wilky CCing Dave here. Them both being Millers is just as equally plausible to me as Wilky Dave fakeclaiming miller as scum. I'm not really getting y I can't think that Dave is scum that got CC'd. If its "there's mod meta!" then fair, I'm not saying we HAVE to vote Dave I just hadn't moved my vote to another scumspect yet. I'd want to lynch off the Wilky mini wagon.

This also needs rope. Kokichi/Nero

Still reading up.

[OnTheMark]

I don't get how town Nero can get "oh 3 people claim neg utility so scum has to be fake claiming" without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.
Scum nero thinking that and using it as an agenda to push something makes a lot more sense though imo.

MariaR is town.

[OnTheMark]

Like their logic is so bad, that I want to call OTM bad town. But everytime I say that the person ends up being scum. So OTM needs to be lynched eventually

Don’t worry.

Scum (if not you which I doubt) will kill me. This wagon on me didn’t manifest on me out of no where after I claimed PR with info. I will die. Then my confusion will make sense. So if you’re town you have nothing to worry about. And if you’re scum you have everything to worry about.

[OnTheMark]

If you want to be able to stand a chance of lynching me as scum you first have to establish that you can townread me as town.

If you are town now would be a good time to start.

Lord help me I am scared of scum!RC don’t want to wagon him today because I get paranoid of RC a lot but ewwww this post is bad. I am hoping this is a Ghost post.

[OnTheMark]

I don't get how town Nero can get "oh 3 people claim neg utility so scum has to be fake claiming" without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.
Scum nero thinking that and using it as an agenda to push something makes a lot more sense though imo.

MariaR is town.

This is NAI for her. And she'll agree with this.

Don’t care if she thinks it’s NAI.

While I tend to struggle as town I can literally count the amount of times I have misread MariaR on one finger. So her opinion of NAI is irrelevant. She’s town. Like I just feel it.

[OnTheMark]

Like their logic is so bad, that I want to call OTM bad town. But everytime I say that the person ends up being scum. So OTM needs to be lynched eventually

Don’t worry.

Scum (if not you which I doubt) will kill me. This wagon on me didn’t manifest on me out of no where after I claimed PR with info. I will die. Then my confusion will make sense. So if you’re town you have nothing to worry about. And if you’re scum you have everything to worry about.

Literally NO ONE is voting you. What wagon? Also has it not given you pause literally EVERYONE says your push on me makes NO SENSE. Not even one person agrees. Your push was so bad that even Ouroboros stopped scumreading me after it.

There is no vote wagon, but there is a wagon of copy pasta reasons of “fake” and “OTM is scum”. The wagon doesn’t require votes it requires mass follow agreements. While traditionally used as a vote wagon there are other wagons like a conga line.

No one is gonna vote me because this quest thing. Not sure what else is needed for it.

[OnTheMark]

Okay, yeah. You're just scum. Everything is too fake.

Kaede let me know when we are done doing whatever L1 thing we are doing and I can vote OTM

Good luck with that.

I am 99.999999% not being lynched.

I won’t say 100 because I have dealt with people who just scumread me on principle.

[OnTheMark]

i could hop on wilky wagon but i want to resolve tchill first

well, in my past large themes there wasn't, but i trust you on this

still, i'd prefer Tchill over Wilky, he came after both miller claims, so i feel it might be scum trying take advantage of miller claims

Still verylazy and by consequence Kokichi needs rope.

Either Ramicus or Tchill13 are scum more than likely. I waffle between the two.

[OnTheMark]

if Tchill is town, and wilky scum this is pretty telling tbh.

Agreed.

[OnTheMark]

Flavour Claim:

One of my abilities is that I am a prototype synth, my win condition is to eliminate the institute but upon investigation I will show as sided with the institute.

This is definitely consistent with the N V before.

However this could be a fake flavor claim. I am leaning towards not and Wilky is town.

[OnTheMark]

Dahhh shit I realized something flavorwise.

Both Miller claims are almost certainly legit.

[OnTheMark]

Flavour Claim:

One of my abilities is that I am a prototype synth, my win condition is to eliminate the institute but upon investigation I will show as sided with the institute.

Is your

role

miller? Or just the investigation results?
Fair's fair. My role is Commonwealth Miller, and for flavor in the "abilities" section I'm a former institute scientist who will investigate as Institute.

Never lynch Davesaz like ever.

[OnTheMark]

Because focusing on negative utility roles is a distraction and is the kind of thing I'd expect scum to be doing if both millers were town

Hi town.

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Tchill13

I do not scumread Tchill13 I just want the quest thing done so we can move on.

[OnTheMark]

At least...
OTM's also paranoid about RC just like me, the only reason i stopped pursuing that route is coz a lot of ppl said he was without a doubt, town.

Mainly I am paranoid because I agree with all his townreads and disagree with the scum ones.

I think if RC is scum he has a list of people he knows he can mislynch and is working from that.

At the same time I don’t think the RC problem is a today problem because I suck as town and could be wrong. Mainly if wilky is town I FoS RC pretty hard between the misread and the antitown behavior I could see him scum. In contrast if wilky is scum then I lock RC town and the antitown behavior is just RC stick in mud.

[OnTheMark]

So.
Why suspect Kokichi for that post?
You said it's weird that scum's kill didn't succeed. But impossibear has literally claimed to have shot MWNN, unless you think impossibear is scum lying and that they actually shot MWNN, then you have to think that the scumteam did shoot MWNN too, or they kill was blocked in some way or form.

As I said before town doesn’t default to vig. They ask why the fuck that weird kill happened.

And impossibear being scum or town resolves itself tomorrow.

However the following are the possible worlds
Scum shot MWNN
Scum did not shoot MWNN
Scum no killed.

Eliminating the third as ridiculous. If they no killed they are bad scum and we will catch them anyway.
Now that leaves the other two.

If scum did not shoot MWNN they had to shoot someone who is either bulletproof or was protected somehow or their kill was blocked.

If scum did shoot MWNN the overlap is explained. With me so far?

[OnTheMark]

Like

I'm really confused about the lack of a mafia kill too, but I don't see how this train of thought is going to help solve it or even help us.

There’s lines that people need to read between and I have an extremely hard time being subtle.

[OnTheMark]

So if scum did not shoot MWNN then they shot someone else.
If scum were roleblocked then I think someone would have had a strong scumread today or made some kinda of indication they had an Uber strong scumread of sorts.
Therefore it is much more likely that they shot someone who was doctored or bear who if town is bulletproof.

Now let’s look at the setupspec that bear did.

[OnTheMark]

Maybe you need to read up on what "irony" means.

a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result.

This qualifies as neither of those things.
The kill is not amusing, nor is it deliberately contrary to one’s expectation if he had not already seen the vig claim. The expectation at the front is one scum team one kill.
Now if he presupposes vig of which in the prior sentence and multiple times town doesn’t do, then and only then is it ironic.

[OnTheMark]

Spoiler: “setup spec from before”

IC- Unlynchable
Jungle's Conditional Hidden JOAT- Unlynchable and has to claim to have any use.
Scum Loyal Roleswapper- Useable to put the strongest scumrole in the strongest scum's hands.

Roles Claimed to Exist:

Miller x2- Negative utility
Non Weak Hider
BP Gated Vig- Unlynchable and Unkillable.

Roles That Exist By Thread/Role Information:

Town Protective- Missing kill N1 while I was an objectively terrible shot and Tchill was a never in 1000 years shot means that Kaede was likely nightkilled and protected. Not unlynchable at all given my Role PM.

You claimed bulletproof. This does not necessitate a town protective. If RC is scum you were very much likely shot. If you were not shot then the almost certain answer is there is a protective.

2-3 Other Scum Power Roles- There is no utility to the Roleswapper unless scum has useful PR's.

Agreed

Probably one for each member of the scumteam.

Everything after probably is bad. You’re making assumptions based on expectations in a GIF game

My guess is an investigative to help find the vig/IC (rolecop?) and something to fuck with Jungle and us (1-shot strongman (full strongman doesn't make sense)/Rolestopper/Roleblocker, etc.).

Especially this last part. You’re assuming traditional roles to fuck with not traditional ones. I think if that type of setup spec continues town is boned

From this point of view, town is actually underpowered.

I agree marginally but not much more, like maybe one or two crazy sounding PRs

I'd expect one or two weak Power roles, something along the lines of a tracker (Not likely to give innos or guilties, but not something scum can straight up ignore either) OR the rest of Jungle's JOAT abilities to be remarkably powerful.

I really think you’re off track here

Flavorwise, it's probably the former, as Garvey's quests are apparently a meme about how annoying and useless they are.

The possible guilties/innos match up (1 guilty 3 unlynchables or 4 unlynchables against a 4 person scumteam is more than fair to scum).

Absolutely not fair to scum. The amount of unlynchables should never equal or exceed the amount of scum. Varsoon school of modding

If the town decides to treat the millers as additional IC's that's on them

Why did you say that is on THEM and not on us?

and isn't worth balancing around.

Underlined is my points after reading that spec some good some bad but I think everything after “probably” should not be used.

[OnTheMark]

OTM, maybe you just claim? Cause it's really painful to look how hard you try soft your role, yet people don't get it...

No.

I don’t want to claim unless necessary.

Besides people don’t believe me so that is their problem not mine. I have a role and I am not being lynched for it. Ever. If people wish to think I am fake so be it. The valuable information we get from scum pushing me is worth it.

[OnTheMark]

OTM, maybe you just claim? Cause it's really painful to look how hard you try soft your role, yet people don't get it...

No.

I don’t want to claim unless necessary.

Besides people don’t believe me so that is their problem not mine. I have a role and I am not being lynched for it. Ever. If people wish to think I am fake so be it. The valuable information we get from scum pushing me is worth it.

Why you think it's scum, who push you and not dumb town?

Because it happened immediately after I crumbed flavor and is a direct counter to a majority of people’s reads on the slot. Furthermore there is no ingenuity behind the pushes. It’s all a damn tape recorder. Some of them may be genuine but without the original thought there is almost certainly a scum influence.

[OnTheMark]

OTM, maybe you just claim? Cause it's really painful to look how hard you try soft your role, yet people don't get it...

No.

I don’t want to claim unless necessary.

Besides people don’t believe me so that is their problem not mine. I have a role and I am not being lynched for it. Ever. If people wish to think I am fake so be it. The valuable information we get from scum pushing me is worth it.

Why you think it's scum, who push you and not dumb town?

Because it happened immediately after I crumbed flavor and is a direct counter to a majority of people’s reads on the slot. Furthermore there is no ingenuity behind the pushes. It’s all a damn tape recorder. Some of them may be genuine but without the original thought there is almost certainly a scum influence.

well, have fun i guess

Obviously you townread me yes? Am I correct in that thought?

[OnTheMark]

OTM, maybe you just claim? Cause it's really painful to look how hard you try soft your role, yet people don't get it...

No.

I don’t want to claim unless necessary.

Besides people don’t believe me so that is their problem not mine. I have a role and I am not being lynched for it. Ever. If people wish to think I am fake so be it. The valuable information we get from scum pushing me is worth it.

Why you think it's scum, who push you and not dumb town?

Because it happened immediately after I crumbed flavor and is a direct counter to a majority of people’s reads on the slot. Furthermore there is no ingenuity behind the pushes. It’s all a damn tape recorder. Some of them may be genuine but without the original thought there is almost certainly a scum influence.

well, have fun i guess

Obviously you townread me yes? Am I correct in that thought?

i have good idea what you are softing and i have hard time finding reason for scum to make such gambit, so yes, you town in my book

Then in that case why are you saying “have fun with that I guess”

Wouldn’t you work with your townread? Who do you town and scumread?

[OnTheMark]

OTM, maybe you just claim? Cause it's really painful to look how hard you try soft your role, yet people don't get it...

No.

I don’t want to claim unless necessary.

Besides people don’t believe me so that is their problem not mine. I have a role and I am not being lynched for it. Ever. If people wish to think I am fake so be it. The valuable information we get from scum pushing me is worth it.

Why you think it's scum, who push you and not dumb town?

Because it happened immediately after I crumbed flavor and is a direct counter to a majority of people’s reads on the slot. Furthermore there is no ingenuity behind the pushes. It’s all a damn tape recorder. Some of them may be genuine but without the original thought there is almost certainly a scum influence.

What? hebichan was a pretty popular scumread before you replaced in.

Not really from how far I have gotten. Seems like people focused on the new util.

[OnTheMark]

Maybe you need to read up on what "irony" means.

a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result.

This qualifies as neither of those things.
The kill is not amusing, nor is it deliberately contrary to one’s expectation if he had not already seen the vig claim. The expectation at the front is one scum team one kill.
Now if he presupposes vig of which in the prior sentence and multiple times town doesn’t do, then and only then is it ironic.

Oh really.

I'm like 100% not the Scum kill

, I would assume.

How ironic.

Unless a vig shot this?

You’re just highlighting the problem!!!

If Kokichi genuinely thought that was the scum kill it would be ironic. But then asking about a vig means Kokichi didn’t believe that. Ergo not ironic.

[OnTheMark]

Now here, you are trying to say that Kokichi knew the kill was from a different source than the scum team, hence ignoring the how ironic part.
Even if that were the case, that means Kokichi's scum team kill went missing, which you've already argued it's very hard to believe.

So in the supposed scum Kokichi's scenario how would he refer to a vig shot on that kill if that was their team's kill, the vig portion wouldnt make sense. Nor does your reasoning.

Again I already explained that. Either you’re not understanding or I am shit at explaining.

I am having a hard time figuring out what happened. There is a missing kill or there is a scum kill that got stopped.

And in that case your last sentence makes 100% sense. In a Kokichi scum world he is vig hunting. Which means they probably shot ETL. I am based on how reactions went about 75% sure that is the case.

[OnTheMark]

But there was a vig claim already before that post.

Which is ignored as Kokichi said they didn’t read it.

So if I take him at his word I must analyze him as if that post doesn’t exist.

[OnTheMark]

I dunno, I don't see any problem with a town player making that kind of post.
I do see it unfathomable for a scum player to make that kind of post.

*sigh*

If you see it unfathomable for scum then you necessarily believe it is a town post.

I legit give up on this point because you literally pointed out the problem and imho reached the wrong conclusion. I can’t make a horse drink so just gonna move on.

[OnTheMark]

holy shit ram gave townreads.

I know right.

@Ghost — Which scum team tries to kill ETL over your slot?

[OnTheMark]

But there was a vig claim already before that post.

Which is ignored as Kokichi said they didn’t read it.

So if I take him at his word I must analyze him as if that post doesn’t exist.

I literally asked for a list of claims. After I posted that ironic post, someone said bear was vig

Just stop flailing.

You’re almost certainly scum to me. Continuing to add bullshit to the pile regarding this topic won’t all of a sudden make me town read you. If you’re town be town then have faith I will see it. Because it feels like you’re trying to convince me out of desperation rather than focus on the game.

[OnTheMark]

@Ank - And yet you're still not voting for someone you scum read.

No matter how serious, or unserious, you're treating this game, it's very little effort to look at the most recent VC and think, "Oops. I thought I was voting my scum read/I forgot where my vote was. I should fix that," and then vote said scum read.

Ghost

Pedit - @OTM - Clarify?

I believe if scum did not shot MWNN that they shot impossibear, the ETL Jingle hydra.

Who as scum would shoot them over you?

[OnTheMark]

@OTM

I'm giving the Bear hydra the benefit of the doubt on their vigilante claim/shot on MWNN just because of two factors: one, how many people scum read/scrutinized MWNN and two, the fact that there are better options for the scum NK than a slot that was getting a lot of heat (like the IC for instance or even our slot).

Can't remember if this was asked, but if Bear was scum, what would be their benefit for shooting town!MWNN (unless they were PR hunting) who was getting scrutinized? Unless scum!Bear was shooting for PR purposes, why would scum eliminate a future D2 wagon that had support behind it?

Back to your actual question:

I'd say scum would shoot Bear over us if they didn't want Bear to rethink their reads and push better ones.

Pedit - @Ank

You're probably being sarcastic in 2153, but I think this dissonance is worth pursuing.

VOTE: Ankamius

Ghost

Bear is being copped so that is wholly irrelevant.

My question is which players in this list kill ETL over you.

I don’t want reasons I want people.

[OnTheMark]

Because they're bad.

If you all are going to throw shade at me I'm strongarming a wraith Lynch.

I am not throwing shade.

I am trying to gain insight into your slot’s mindset here and trying to collaborate with you.

Assume ETL being shot is a fact. Who pulls the trigger?

[OnTheMark]

OTM you call me scum again you die your slot is awful.

And yeah we're killing wraith today, with the reads people are throwing around I don't trust town to have learned anything from Tchill townflip.

I play like that as scum because you force me to Kaede. My playstyle is one of necessity.

I am not calling you scum.

I said I am paranoid.

I am asking which players in the game shoot ETL if the scum kill is indeed missing?

[OnTheMark]

OTM you call me scum again you die your slot is awful.

And yeah we're killing wraith today, with the reads people are throwing around I don't trust town to have learned anything from Tchill townflip.

I play like that as scum because you force me to Kaede. My playstyle is one of necessity.

I am not calling you scum.

I said I am paranoid.

I am asking which players in the game shoot ETL if the scum kill is indeed missing?

Please answer the question rather than calling me bad.

[OnTheMark]

OTM you call me scum again you die your slot is awful.

And yeah we're killing wraith today, with the reads people are throwing around I don't trust town to have learned anything from Tchill townflip.

I play like that as scum because you force me to Kaede. My playstyle is one of necessity.

I am not calling you scum.

I said I am paranoid.

I am asking which players in the game shoot ETL if the scum kill is indeed missing?

Please answer the question rather than calling me bad.

[OnTheMark]

Like in a world where

1) my scumread on vent was met with questions instead of hard discrediting and people calling me bad for having an unpopular read

2) I was able to establish myself as town by being towny as opposed to making it impossible to Lynch me through brute force.

3) Town had better reads, but this is more of a wishlist than a criticism

I would be able to be the version of me that you want to see.

You instead choose to make my life impossible when I'm nice and policy Lynch me when I'm not which basically amounts to you don't want me to have fun or make an impact as either alignment.

Sure, policy Lynch me because I'm taking control of town here but I'm doing because I have to not because I want to.

@OTM I refuse to make NKA based on that assumption when there's so many possibilities

Ok you do. What about your hydra partner? Do they refuse?

[OnTheMark]

I don't see this fixation on analyzing an apparently failed NK.
What is the point?

There is a reason. I assure you. I can’t explain why right now. However it is extremely antitown to explain why.

@Kaede assume ETL was shot who did it?

[OnTheMark]

So, I have something so say here that could change everything. Since I've been gone a few days please uh... let me apologize for not bringing this up pages ago..

I roleblocked davesv.

If we're claiming that the only nightkill was a vig shot off impossibear, then I'm pretty sure I blocked the kill.

VOTE: dave slot

yeah ok but otm says he was prevented from acting N1.

besides the fact that everything otm has said sounds like bs...

Uhm the mod made a mistake and fixed it

I legit don’t know what to say here.

Like uhmmmm

I am a roleblocker. Hence why we’re the protective of sorts.

Yay thanks gif

[OnTheMark]

So apparently I blocked davesaz so they are innocent

I scumread Raybells for picking up on the gambit and buddying yet not answering the question

We’re the sorta protective.

We also have a weird modifier.

Holy fuck I watch a movie and this happens

[OnTheMark]

I'M LAUGHING SO HARD

All reads so far are genuine except RC I scumread RC so hard

More certain of townreads than scum ones.

Holy fuck. Yay!

So davesaz didn’t kill last night:

Or he did the kill and is guilty.

Sorry when I didn’t get it I thought Hebichan forgot

Pedit me too.

[OnTheMark]

So uhmmmmm that awkward feeling it’s times 1000.

I am probably getting modkilled.

I wanna reinvestigate davesaz with that.

[OnTheMark]

Etl do you see why I have a problem with your setup spec now?

Somethings don’t add up.

[OnTheMark]

Yay! Now I am so fucking confused!

[OnTheMark]

RC I really think is scum.

I was trying to work with him, but him turning me down when I did what he wants me to do and appealing to his skills and him saying no is a scumclaim if dave is town. So yay sorry for lying but I swear I had mod induced amnesia?

[OnTheMark]

So apparently I blocked davesaz so they are innocent

I don't get it, doesn't roleblocker imply you would have stoppe him from making the kill? You're not a doctor

Roleblocker stops a person from making a kill.

IC and ETL and Jungle along with my mod is too much power to add a protective to.

So if dave made the kill he is scum or ETL was shot.

When I opened I thought I blocked no one hence ETL probably shot.

[OnTheMark]

RC is lock town mark dw
Pedit:

If I didn’t worry about RC I wouldn’t be doing my job

But since all my reads are turned on my head

I am just gonna try to speed gut some things

I think dave should be policied

[OnTheMark]

Etl do you see why I have a problem with your setup spec now?

Somethings don’t add up.

No. It was Jingle's anyway. But are you saying you lied about being prevented from acting or not?

Because if you acted, there's only two possibilities:
We got shot
Davesaz shot

If you were prevented, all of this is friggin moot anyway.

So.. we have to determine which is more likely.

I thought hebichan forgot to submit so when Strong is prevented from doing things because Hebichan forgot to submit which she can do when she goes inactive.

So I was alluding badly to Strong flavor which he can’t do things in the game til he is recruited by the PC.

I wasn’t prevented I was trying to say I didn’t act which I thought was the truth.

[OnTheMark]

But alas yay mod induced amnesia I hit davesaz

So sorry guys ladies and enbies!

[OnTheMark]

Etl do you see why I have a problem with your setup spec now?

Somethings don’t add up.

Roleblocker has an absurd elegance as the protective for reasons. Unfortunately, I don't think

my setup spec, not ETL's, and no. I'm actually still pretty down with my hold on the setup, assuming I haven't missed anything. I need to catch up, but don't have enough time to guarantee I'll be able to.

Your/Jingle’s setup spec says I am scum. I am a roleblocker. I am town. So I don’t see how you can hold onto that.

[OnTheMark]

FTR, playerlist based only:

Likely to shoot our slot:

Jungle>RCdra>random player caught confirmable crumbs.

It's not a hard guilty on Dave or RC, but it is definitely good evidence. We need to reread Dave to make sure you're not wrong there ETL.

Regardless, RC isn't the right play specifically today, because if Jungle is scum RC becomes conftown in my book and we learn that tomorrow based on the quest existing/not existing.

PEdit: Are you saying the mod didn't tell you about previous actions? If so, did you ask if your slot had acted previously?

Yes. That is what I am saying.

No I didn’t ask. I figured she didn’t act or Gif would include it. Hebichan has flaked on games before so I thought she flaked.

Low and behold when she posted I got so confused.

[OnTheMark]

Like I know this sounds bad but uhmmmm

Apparently now I am <redacted> Roleblocker with a side of mod induced amnesia.

Very much down for policying Davesaz.

RC is scum if Dave is town because RC said he would work with me if I tried with him and instead he calls me bad.

[OnTheMark]

Etl do you see why I have a problem with your setup spec now?

Somethings don’t add up.

Roleblocker has an absurd elegance as the protective for reasons. Unfortunately, I don't think

my setup spec, not ETL's, and no. I'm actually still pretty down with my hold on the setup, assuming I haven't missed anything. I need to catch up, but don't have enough time to guarantee I'll be able to.

Your/Jingle’s setup spec says I am scum. I am a roleblocker. I am town. So I don’t see how you can hold onto that.

You said it yourself, roleblocker fits as the missing protective. My setup spec said it was likely scum had something to fuck with our actions, which is still true.

Oh, and your varsoon school of modding point is either misapplied or completely wrong. Consider the setup 3 goons v 1 cop 9VT. Day three, you can have 4 unlynchables, which is more than the number of scum, and the setup is a scumwin 99% of the time.

Yay let’s agree to disagree on setup spec and catch scum.

So since I am working with a clock here til my likely modkill how about we start with getting my head on straight.

List of all claims pretty please?

And lynch davesaz.

[OnTheMark]

OTM my confusion came from thinking you uwere calling Davesaz town for being roleblocked

If you say he is roleblocked I'm down for lynching them

I am tired.

I forgot about something. I brainfarted

I blocked them please Lynch dave

[OnTheMark]

That totally lines up with Hebichan's d1 read on me. And it lines up with my PR read on the slot.

It wouldn't affect the night's results given I don't have an action to begin with, but if town feels I must be removed given miller, I'd understand it. No mislynch is ever

good

but whatever is needed.

Oh this isn’t regarding Miller.

I would want you unless town confirmed IC. You were blocked and we are missing a kill.

Doing this shows whether it is you who did the kill or if scum tried to shoot ETL.

I thought it was ETL because mod didn’t tell me about Dave.

[OnTheMark]

It's not.

My scum play is more advanced than your rationale.

I've never ever been polciy/bop lynched as scum.

If Dave is scum lynch this for BoP as IMhO he would be scum.

First time for everything.

[OnTheMark]

Part of me wonders why we're assuming Town Roleblocker and not scum Roleblocker here. The other part of me thinks scum wouldn't have claimed here anyway.

Lol uhmmm yes because Hebichan as scum would completely ignore scum chat, randomly post that she blocked someone despite me crumbling and literally saying otherwise. She would also completely ignore scum chat and then randomly post resulting in the slots inevitable mod kill. Because scum wins through modkilling themselves!

That’s a brilliant plan that I will never ever try.

[OnTheMark]

Do we think scum claim miller straight away?

Yes. It’s the same rule with ascetic.

If you are and don’t it’s a scum claim later.

[OnTheMark]

i don't think this is good jingle. too many variables. both could be town and if dave flips town half the thread will want to lynch otm who could also be town. then that's 3 down plus night kills. we have to wait for more

Dude

I am legit being modkilled.

No one will ever lynch my slot after what hebichan did. You’d have to make an argument that is so far gone out of left field Hebichan correcting the mod error publically removes reasonable doubt that I can be scum.

We’re lynching Dave.

[OnTheMark]

Part of me wonders why we're assuming Town Roleblocker and not scum Roleblocker here. The other part of me thinks scum wouldn't have claimed here anyway.

Because we're on a deadline to get information if Math is going to get modkilled, so we make the assumptions that net the most usable information, cutting down on wasted time. We can reconsider if no mod action happens, but worrying about Math's alignment is literally the last concern we should have atm.

Fair enough.

@Impossibear

You wanna make this argument?

[OnTheMark]

Part of me wonders why we're assuming Town Roleblocker and not scum Roleblocker here. The other part of me thinks scum wouldn't have claimed here anyway.

Lol uhmmm yes because Hebichan as scum would completely ignore scum chat, randomly post that she blocked someone despite me crumbling and literally saying otherwise. She would also completely ignore scum chat and then randomly post resulting in the slots inevitable mod kill. Because scum wins through modkilling themselves!

That’s a brilliant plan that I will never ever try.

Impossibear sorry this one.

If you think you can make this argument stick go right ahead. I would love to play.

But quite rationally I accept I am being modkillef.

[OnTheMark]

Without accusing me or hebi of cheating we cannot be scum. That will likely modkill me.

I kinda have weird feelings about impossibear.

RC Impossibear Davesaz?

[OnTheMark]

2.05

wilky (2):

MariaR, Tchill13

Ramcius (3):

wilky, Dunnstral, projectmatt

Tchill13 (5):

Wraith, Kaede Akamatsu, Impossibear, Kokichi Oma, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE

Kokichi Oma (2):

Ankamius OnTheMark

Wraith (1):

Ouroboros

Not Voting:

Alchemist21, davesaz, Ramcius

With

16

alive,

9

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-27 22:26:54)

VOTE: Tchill13

I do not scumread Tchill13 I just want the quest thing done so we can move on.

I think Tchill13 is l-1

[OnTheMark]

Gimme my wraith Lynch thanks.

Not a chance in hell.

Davesaz first. If Dave flips red RC
Davesaz first. If Dave flips town then figure out what happened with the NK. Might be time for mass claim

This is what happens today. Hammering Tchill13 is a scumclaim. Even if Tchill13 flips scum.

[OnTheMark]

Might be time for mass claim

Not before this situation resolves. If we don't get a lynch afterwards, there's no point in risking scum getting a free shot on any counterclaiming town power.

If we were the nightkill, who is scum?

That’s what I was asking.

I really wanted RC’s opinion on it. :/ Like literally anyone and I woulda townread him.

What do you think?

And yes I am dodging the question I don’t want to control the narrative.

[OnTheMark]

You never replied to me on whether you're interested in a meta answer, gamestate answer, or both...

I am not really and I don’t remember what this in regards to.

I just know that you need to die.

[OnTheMark]

---

Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition

Players

1. Wilky
   
2. Me town
   
3. Kaede IC
   
4. ManWithNoName,
   Commonwealth Vanilla
   , killed Night 1.
   
5. MariaR town
   
6. Wraith I really think wraith is town
   
7. Ramicus >> null maybe scum
   
8. Ankamius >> null probably town
   
9. Ouroboros (AnonymousGhost + RadiantCowbells) gives me newbie jeebies if Dave is scum Lynch here
   
10. Tchill13 hider claim is weird AF. Especially with my modifier. Needs to die
    
11. Dunnstral Meh null
    
12. verylazy/Kokichi Oma still don’t like that post but not enough room in scum pools leave til later
    
13. Impossibear (EspeciallyTheLies + Jingle) moon theory scum save til lylo or if Dave and RC are both scum
    
14. davesaz this dies today.
    
15. Ventriloquist,
    Institute Factional Ability Swapper
    , lynched Day 1.
    
16. Alchemist21 town
    
17. Nero Cain/projectMatt probably scum
    
18. REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE very likely town or if not situation resolves itself.

[OnTheMark]

Dammit, I'm out of time and all of the most useful things I can do require a bunch of it.

I have no idea who would have killed us. My best bet is to look at who backed down off of us after I crumbed, but I don't have the time to do so. I need to reevaluate with rb instead of doc/jk in mind to see if tchill is still lockscum.

Based on the can hide behind scum and my modifier scum Tchill makes sense but Gif throws in curveballs.

So I am thinking save Tchill13 for later

[OnTheMark]

I mean it's not just MS

MU has a meta of literally systematically policy lynching good scum player to a point MS would never compare to.

But this game is a fucking insult.

People wonder why my town game supposedly fell off when I got the scummy. It had nothing to do with my town game and everything to do with how people saw me.

Wraith is scum. But you can policy Lynch me for being good of you prefer.

Actually I agree MS has some policying issues but MU doesn’t. My alt over there has a >75% town win rate and scum win rate and I don’t get policied.

And you won’t get policied in this game. You would be Burden of Proficiencied if Dave is scum.

[OnTheMark]

So I see some concerns. This is me telling you that I have made an action. So, please continue.

May we please have a VoteCount? I suck at arithmetic.

[OnTheMark]

Ok, the quest can continue then.

Now how do we deal with this Mark/Dave situation?

Lynch Dave. Pretty simple.

[OnTheMark]

How the fuck do I get burden of proficiencies on that flip of all flip?

Because you’re saying Dave is town and then not addressing the elephant in the room of who shot ETL in that case. It’s more like you know Dave is gonna flip scum and are pissy you’re next.

[OnTheMark]

Gimme my wraith Lynch thanks.

Not a chance in hell.

Davesaz first. If Dave flips red RC
Davesaz first. If Dave flips town then figure out what happened with the NK. Might be time for mass claim

This is what happens today. Hammering Tchill13 is a scumclaim. Even if Tchill13 flips scum.

Revote there has to be a moderator votecount

[OnTheMark]

Pedit Sorry lag!

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Davesaz

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Wraith

Be frank. Are you calling me scum?

[OnTheMark]

Like I think there's a.toen protective role regardless of your role.

Could Davesaz be scum? Fuck yeah. But I'm busy lynching scum off of play rather than claims so.

Do we have to be to think that Wraith is scum?

No. You don’t have to think I am scum to think Wraith is scum.

However you do have to be scum not to vote Dave in this situation.

It’s like if someone has a tracker result to the kill. You don’t fucking lynch anywhere else unless you have an innocent on the person in question or a guilty on your guy.

You don’t have a guilty on Wraith. Therefore the only logical answer is that you are calling me scum.

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Wraith

Be frank. Are you calling me scum?

no

Then explain why you don’t vote Dave. RC already failed at his explanation and said it isn’t a 1-1 guilty. Which is logically sound I do not have to be scum for Dave to be town. However his insistence that there is another protective and not scumreading the amount of town power already out is a scum claim.

So I ask again if you don’t scumread me, why are you not voting Dave?

[OnTheMark]

It’s a matter of if you believe what I am saying then the proper action is to lynch Dave. Every time.

[OnTheMark]

Dave feels towny past few pages, I obviously think it isn't a confirmed guilty too but your action does cast doubt on him

Again. That doesn’t address the problem at hand.

It is exactly like a tracker. If someone is tracked to the kill without a good explanation you lynch them.

Here we are missing a kill, Dave was blocked and lacks a good explanation for the scenario of events, doesn’t care to explain it, and furthermore understands he should be lynched. Why are you going against that?

[OnTheMark]

Bro thinking there's a protective doesn't make me scum and calling me scum makes me sad.

Even if you think everyone is a protective the proper play is to lynch Dave.

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: otm

Yeah uhmmmm just read. I am like infinite levels of town.

Mod forgot to tell me hebi blocked Davesaz and like we’re missing a kill.

So Dave is the lynch today I am as close to confirmed town as you can get without being IC.

@Dunn Why you’re not voting the likely killer for starters.
It is about most likely. Scum care about what if.

We are doing Dave. Even Dave acknowledges it.

[OnTheMark]

Why the hell wouldn't you just claim that OTM

Because of mod induced amnesia. Just read the thread.

[OnTheMark]

I think wraith is scum more often than Davesaz

Ergo I am voting Wraith.

Easy. Regardless of your juvenile desire to call me scum over my approaching this game differently than you do.

It’s not about different approach.

If you still think Wraith is scum make your case tomorrow.

That is of course if Dave is town. If Dave is scum for reasons already discussed you’re next.

[OnTheMark]

Mod forgot to tell me hebi blocked Davesaz and like we’re missing a kill.

Bad angleshooting: If Dave was scum the mod wouldn't have forgotten to tell you

I don’t believe that. I have seen a lot worse fuckups from mods that involved guilties. Assuming worse case scenario we learn scum shot ETL or there is another protective. I am very much leaning the earlier.

Probable scum, and even if not we learn a lot about the gamestate.

And now you see my confusion. Yaaaaay.

[OnTheMark]

Otm I'm sad you're town.

I’m sad you’re sad.

My confusion over the missing kill is now clarified my questions make sense and now you’re sad?

See this is the kinda shit that makes me scumread you. Your tone is completely wrong. However figuring out Dave is more important and only people brave enough to scumclaim stop it.

[OnTheMark]

UNVOTE: Kokichi Oma
VOTE: Dunnstral

...Dave please Ank.

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: otm

Really. I am not stopping you from playing. I hear your Wraith read.

I just don’t buy your argument. You can push it tomorrow if Dave is town.

I am not silencing you in any manner. I am just countering what you are saying and again you call me bad versus doing the right thing.

And I just am playing what I see to the fullest and so will everyone else.

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

Yeah you misspelled Dave. Don’t get me wrong I like it but that again is for tomorrow.

[OnTheMark]

I'm putting myself in front of daveax.

Want to vote him, vote me instead.

Nope. That just results in folly.

If Dave scum you scum then you want to die first
If Dave scum you town then you’re misguided town.
If Dave town you scum then you know it would be refused.
If Dave town you town then you have a properly guided belief but denying us the ability to see what you do.

There is literally no benefit I can see to this. Fact is we are lynching Dave.

[OnTheMark]

onthemark i dont think youre mafia anymore, but i dont understand why youre insistent that dave -has- to be lynched today. your argument against him is inconclusive, and sure, it hints at him being a possible mafia, but do you actually scumread dave's lines?

Yes it isn’t 100% I acknowledge that. It’s more about the likelihood. Dave is much more likely than any other player and therefore needs to die.

FYI current scumreads Dave RC and projectmatt

[OnTheMark]

Pls can all the town players who think their reads are better than mine line up how many of you are there!

Add Dunnstral too. Dave RC projectmatt and Dunnstral. Yes this leaves out Kokichi but I am gonna trust Kaede on that one

[OnTheMark]

ok but that's subjective

so when you say shit like:

However you do have to be scum not to vote Dave in this situation.

it destroys any credibility that you have

No. It doesn’t.

If you are town and do not vote the person most likely to be scum fypov and actively work to derail it you are scum.

Therefore unless someone provides evidence that Dave is town and works against the lynch that is a scumclaim. Because they have no reason to actively work against it. So yes, anyone working against this lynch to me is scum.

[OnTheMark]

Pls can all the town players who think their reads are better than mine line up how many of you are there!

Add Dunnstral too. Dave RC projectmatt and Dunnstral. Yes this leaves out Kokichi but I am gonna trust Kaede on that one

this is

such

a bad read list

Not from where I sit.

Either you are working with town or you’re not.

If you’re not you’re scum. It’s that simple.

[OnTheMark]

...If you’re town and not actively voting or mentioning your top scumread you’re just not playing town.

It’s about getting scum lynched. If you’re not lynching scum you’re scum or town in name only.

You lynch caught scum or very likely scum. It’s what town does.

I will let Kaede or Maria explain it to you all later, but if you work against this lynch you are scum to me.

However that is probably wholly irrelevant as I expect to die unless I target scum correctly.

[OnTheMark]

Ank you’re making me doubt my original townread.

The only way I can be scum is if hebichan did some horrible shit. The fact I am that low is concerning and makes me think you’re just wanting to shade me and don’t have reads chica.

[OnTheMark]

Dunnstral is town Ank

We can talk about that tomorrow I don’t townread Dunn but there can be time for that tomorrow.

[OnTheMark]

Honestly?

I kinda don't.

You’re giving me sads. Ank goes in the needs to be sorted pile.

[OnTheMark]

Ank you’re making me doubt my original townread.

The only way I can be scum is if hebichan did some horrible shit. The fact I am that low is concerning and makes me think you’re just wanting to shade me and don’t have reads chica.

btw

I just told you I'm discounting setup stuff in reads and going by play

This isn’t setup stuff.

Your argument requires the following
Hebichan after a long absence to completely ignore scum chat or that I post 0 times in it
Post once and I call it out
Then later on post again and this time
Completely contradict what I am doing in her slot

And throughout this entire time of being absent it would require her not reading scum chat once or me with what quite possibly is one of the longest scumchats in all of MafiaScum if not the longest, to never do anything in it.

So I personally think that scumreading me after all that is absurd, that isn’t setup spec. That is events. If you want to have me that low you have to explain why you do. Because right now I find you full of shit because in Undertale you used it to an extent. Not as much as me but you argued I had to be scum because BP. What makes here different?

[OnTheMark]

I suspect anyone who changed their mind on the basis of the result alone, especially having a claimed BP plus who knows how many other roles in play.

No way in hell you think this as town. You are a Miller cc AND blocked. Anyone town would understand why you're the lynch today.

Actually I'm dead serious. My posting is obvtown and some of the people who focus solely on the result are likely to be scum. I'll be there to say told you so at the end.

Oh honey. You need so much rope it isn’t even funny. I am sure that eventually some of the scum will bus you if they can’t torpedo this. They will eventually hop on. It’s Dave or no lynch because working against the IC and the almost damn near close to IC of me is working against the town and there will not be anything at all else that gets majority.

[OnTheMark]

Ugh

Undertale took years off my life, I don't want to think about that travesty ever again.

And I was right and caught Maxous.

You also know how determined I can be yes.

So you know how determined I can be.

You know how this plays out yes?

So let’s all speed along and vote Dave.

[OnTheMark]

Maxous was a 100% universal townread and the only scum in a game of 20+ and I never relented til he died.

This is the same pattern. You can join me or not but the reality is Dave or no lynch. There are no other options.

[OnTheMark]

Also Mark I'm confused why you mentioned scumchat in this game being among the longest on mafiascum?

I didn’t.

I said I as a player do. Was referring to Shadowrun game. Quite easily like 1500 posts I think. More than a grand for sure with two people

[OnTheMark]

There are no other options.

this is not true

You may not have played with me or are feigning ignorance.

I am making this simple. We’re lynching Dave.

[OnTheMark]

Ugh

Undertale took years off my life, I don't want to think about that travesty ever again.

And I was right and caught Maxous.

You also know how determined I can be yes.

So you know how determined I can be.

You know how this plays out yes?

So let’s all speed along and vote Dave.

You remember how adamant I was for the entire game how clears in that game weren't actually clear, right?

I was adamantly against trying to game the setup to a win, which turned out to be true.

The game just drove me so insane that I ended up falling into the trap of using it myself.

I still have nightmares about Narna in that game.

And I demonstrated I know how you use it.

So you also know where this is going.

Undertale was painful because people shaded me rather than listening. It was pages and pages of don’t lynch Maxous and then I brought enough people to it happening. I can do it here. And here I have mechanics too. The only lynch will be Dave.

The only question is if this is the easy way or the hard way.

[OnTheMark]

There are no other options.

this is not true

You may not have played with me or are feigning ignorance.

I am making this simple. We’re lynching Dave.

says who

Me.

And there is no more natural discussion.

Scum are trying to save Dave and maybe one or two scum beards.

Dave is eating rope.

[OnTheMark]

the

entire reason

there's no natural discussion in this game and nobody is getting good reads is because of overly strict adherence to mechanics

Mechanics aren’t exclusive of reads.

If Dave is scum I had RC scum long before proper mechanics.

Reads can be formed hell even in chess and poker.

If you can’t fake reads in a mechanics game it isn’t a me problem. That is a scum you problem.

And if you are town always start with facts then the rest flows.

The fact you’re not is concerning.

And the fact you’re only complaining now (will double check my memory) is telling.

More than likely means Dave is a PR.

[OnTheMark]

Flavour Claim:

One of my abilities is that I am a prototype synth, my win condition is to eliminate the institute but upon investigation I will show as sided with the institute.

Is your

role

miller? Or just the investigation results?
Fair's fair. My role is Commonwealth Miller, and for flavor in the "abilities" section I'm a former institute scientist who will investigate as Institute.

This means he has an abilities section.

This means he does shit. Contrary to what he claimed.

This means he dies.

[OnTheMark]

Yeah but, do you understand how overwhelming you can be at times Mark?

It's one thing if the loudest voices has the entire game solved and never gets nightkilled.

But the problem is that loud voices tend to stifle everyone else and that's a huge detriment if that voice suddenly vanishes and everyone else has a vacuum of 2-3 empty day phases to try to catch up with.

It’s overwhelming to people who don’t want to vote scum yes.

And if that voice disappears then town moves on.

If we continue to lynch scum then does it really matter if I am overbearing and force scum to work with me?

Scum don’t do what you want because you ask nicely. You drag them.

And as I said before if Dave is town I have zero qualms about RC and we can discuss what he wants tomorrow.

[OnTheMark]

sure, we can absolutely combine mechanics and scumhunting

my issue with this game in particular is that we're favoring mechanics to the extent where scumhunting is being stifled.

a good example of this is you saying that anyone who doesn't vote dave is mafia. by doing that, you're literally holding the entire playerlist hostage by making them stick to the mechanics and not, you know, actual scumhunting.

When the mechanics dictate the lynch yes that is accurate.

Hell you can even say “I think Dave is town but as town we need this lynch and my top scumreads are A BC because BCD” but going against this lynch is 99% antitown.

[OnTheMark]

And if we get scum lynches every day it 100% doesn’t matter if it’s brute force or not.

You’re reeking of scum who can’t breathe here

[OnTheMark]

I think we've done it

I think we've made a second undertale

Can I opt out of that

You’re only making it an Undertale by refusing to lynch scum.

I am 100% telling you Dave will be lynched.

You can join on and progress the game forward, or you can complain about not getting Dave out of this, but it is happening. If people would use common sense this wouldn’t be difficult.

[OnTheMark]

Oh great, now instead of just RC being an egomaniac we have two of 'em.

I am not an egomaniac hell I don’t pretend to have this game solved.

Also instead of helping you’re attacking me.

You’re pulling a Maxous in Undertale.

At least we are going though the stages faster.

Hooray!

[OnTheMark]

And if we get scum lynches every day it 100% doesn’t matter if it’s brute force or not.

You’re reeking of scum who can’t breathe here

The problem

Is that those lynches aren't natural

Brute forcing lynches creates a vacuum

That vacuum makes flips give less information
That vacuum makes everyone's reactions unnatural and harder to read
That vacuum

makes the game difficult for everybody else.

That vaccuum makes flips give less information. Iioa is a scum tell even if it did apply which it doesn’t.
People are reacting to the vaccuum and reads happen off of that. Again if you sign up for a mechanics game and don’t want to acknowledge mechanics that isn’t a game state problem.

The vaccuum only makes it harder for scum. Mechanics only get brought up as issues when scum complain.

If we keep dropping scum it legit doesn’t matter.

[OnTheMark]

There's a fucking reason I was trying to bait a wagon on myself going into day 2

This is still day two. Why are you?

[OnTheMark]

So Davesaz? You know I won’t let this go Ank. Dave is being lynched today.

[OnTheMark]

I am going to bed. You’re literally just being antagonistic to spam. And I won’t contribute to that.

You’re being an antitown clown who refuses to acknowledge reality.

Dave is the lynch today.

Any temporary scum led counterwagon will die a very quick death as none of the conf/very likely town will ever join it.

[OnTheMark]

OnTheMark: Pop quiz
You RB someone tonight and there is no kill. Do you

automatically

lynch them tomorrow?
If your answer is yes, what is scum's

optimum

strategy for the rest of the game?

Yes.
Kill someone as otherwise they lose.

[OnTheMark]

Myself ETL/Jingle hydra and Kaede are never lynch pile

If scum don’t kill they lose.

So yes if scum don’t kill we lynch whoever I block

[OnTheMark]

i think i understand now, onthemark. in fact, i've developed a comprehensive strategic guide to help lead us through the rest of this game:

SCUMHUNTING = BAD

MECHANICS = GOOD

Quit spamming. Mechanics are a part of scumhunting

Facts > Reads though

[OnTheMark]

honestly, why do mafia games even have talking? i think we should just automate the process of lynching the person with the highest statistical likelihood of being mafia and be done with it

I agree with lynching the highest probability to be scum. That is what towns do. However the talking before mechanics come in helps influence the actions needed for town to win.

[OnTheMark]

Quit spamming.

you joined this game 2 days ago and you have 160 posts

And they are all relevant and necessary to ensure the proper things happen.

Otherwise scum take control.

[OnTheMark]

Quit spamming.

you joined this game 2 days ago and you have 160 posts

And they are all relevant and necessary to ensure the proper things happen.

Otherwise scum take control.

I'd have more fun if you weren't in this game

I don’t see why that is the case. I am merely just making sure what needs to happen, happens. If you’re scum then yeah you wouldn’t enjoy it as there is no wiggle room.

Pedit

Scum win that is what happens. I won a game as mechanics confirmed scum with that.

We always do the right thing as town. Don’t give scum operating room.

[OnTheMark]

We have a pseudo guilty on Dave and everyone's ignoring it?

Scum rapid posted to make it seem like everyone.

It will happen. It may be painful but Dave will be lynched.

Then if Dave flips scum as is likely by the response, then RC after that.

[OnTheMark]

I don't sheep pseudo-guilties unless I independently have a scumread on that slot.

My scumread on davesaz is not strong enough to qualify.

You said the same with Maxous when I was right.

Don’t repeat the same mistakes.

[OnTheMark]

oh and RC is against it too?
Even better!

Yeah I disagree with that.

Anyone against a pseudo guilty is scum by rolepm or town in name only.

I really have to go but I am hoping we can play tradesies and I pick up when you have to go.

[OnTheMark]

Yay!

A popularity contest ensues even when I have a pseudo guilty.

I swear if I was a miller see through cop you’d still never Lynch Dave.

You’re just spitting me because Mathblade.

Every game fucking quick lynches guilties because otherwise scum escape. I have used this ploy more times than I can count so I know it when I see it.

I have to go to work but we are lynching Dave.

[OnTheMark]

I shouldn't have to keep repeating myself. We should be lynching Tchi today and Wilky tomorrow there is no "guilty" on dave because of a roleblock

And you bet your ass there is.

There is no chance we lynch anyone else. None.

[OnTheMark]

Holy mother of god why have you accumulated 40 pages in like three days

Kokichi being obvscum is kokichi being kokichi.
I mean if you ever read DRV3 mafia I had to defend him from Wisdom and co all fricken day 1.
OTOH, the only time i've seen Kokichi scum is when i spectated Steam VN upick and i could hardly tell he was scum at first.

Basically he doesnt look like the type of scum player that would make a blunder like "refering to a vig when they know their shot failed", and even then, he did initially think that was a scum shot (hence the "how ironic" statement).
Double that into the fact that Vent's post were proven to be doctored on a scum PT, and i dont think you're gonna catch scum by conventional means specially if RC's part of it.
Alchemist seems to think otherwise tho, but i dont get it (even tho he already explained it to me)

Which is why control must be taken from RC to prove his alignment. It works 99/100.

[OnTheMark]

You are doing what RC wants and having a discussion.

Which will then be used to try to have Wraith lynched.

The answer is we lynch Dave get a red flip lynch RC. It isn’t hard.

[OnTheMark]

Like holy fuck I lynched scum yesterday what is wrong with you

You mean like you did D1 of the turbo you and I played in?

Where you said you were gonna bus me and I played dead like a good buddy does?

I legit do not care if you lynch scum or not. I care about how the scum you lynched plays.

[OnTheMark]

>this person lynched scum D1
>this person is objectively the best scumhunter currently alive
>let's outright ignore his preferred lynches and decide whether he's scum or not based on flips that aren't even tangentially related to his alignment

why don't you just policy lynch me and sheep my scumreads if this is how we have to play the game?

No one is the “best” scumhunter. And if you were you would have helped me through my conundrum.

And davesaz is 100% related to your alignment.

[OnTheMark]

Mark let me see if I get this
there was a death and you think dave is role blocked scum?

Correct.

ETL/Jingle claimed vig of mwnn.

Scum death is missing.

[OnTheMark]

OK if this is going to be a game of who can yell the loudest then I can yell a lot louder than you mathblade.
You say popularity contest we say people don't listen to you because your reads are proven to be mediocre.

I am going to come back either later today or tomorrow and make a wraith case and then we'll lynch him and probably policy lynch OTM tomorrow so I can get a moment's peace.

Lol I have games where I have clean swept and been vigged. Yes I have had horrible games. However I am bringing what gives me popularity on MU here and it is working in reads and playstyle.

[OnTheMark]

I mean I clearly am the best scumhunter in this lobby.
Wraith is also at this point a scumread I am more certain of than I was of Ventriloquist at any point.

If you think that I'm bussing why don't you help me bus?

You aren’t right now.

You were yesterday.

You don’t want Dave dead.

[OnTheMark]

No, I want wraith dead who flips scum.
Presuming that Wraith does in fact flip scum, I am at worst setting up another buddy to die while not really doing anything to take away the impetus towards lynching Davesaz later this game.

Yeah he doesn’t.

Wraith I have a hard townread on.

And you aren’t setting up another buddy. You’re saving Dave.

We are doing Dave and if Dave flips green we do Wraith.

You go with evidence first. Then reads. It’s how Mafia works.

[OnTheMark]

Mark let me see if I get this
there was a death and you think dave is role blocked scum?

Correct.

ETL/Jingle claimed vig of mwnn.

Scum death is missing.

ehhhhh

I roleblocked Dave.

We are lynching Dave.

[OnTheMark]

Hint: town has at least one protective role and there's some obvious saves in this game.

What makes you so sure of that.

truthfully I think there is literally a 0% chance that scum did not attempt to kill me

Like do you think we have a roleblocker, a doctor and a bulletproof vig?

i don't believe the bulletproof vig claim because it implies scum have a strongman and if they did they'd have used it.
sorry to out them if they're town claiming bulletproof for protective purposes but I'd rather they die than I do so.

I doubt scum have a strongman.

My modifier runs directly antithesis to them having one.

[OnTheMark]

It’s why I partial claimed darling.

Been waiting for someone to pull what you’re pulling.

[OnTheMark]

is this how every game with you is going to go because if so I'd like to go back to you not replacing into games with me. the way you're treating my slot makes this game zero fun for me.

You mean how I won’t let you have your mislynch?

You realize RC you saying your better than everyone is the same thing?

I just have the humility to accept that I am flawed but only push when I think it is necessary? That I can plan a claim properly to bait out likely scum?

If you were town you’d be lynching Dave with me.

[OnTheMark]

I mean we still have the following possibilities
ETL was shot
ETL is actually scum that shot MWNN
Scum also shot MWNN
Dave is scum that got rb'd
I got shot and saved by a doc
Ouroboros got shot and saved by a doc.
Scum no killed.

Scum no killed is not valid.

And my modifier makes it VERY unlikely a town doc exists.

[OnTheMark]

So what happens if we add Doc to that list?

BP blocks kill on themselves
Roleblocker blocks kill if on killer
Doc blocks kill if on the killed
Hider blocks kill on themselves but dies if their target is hit

or if the RB is actually JK.

BP blocks kill on themselves
Jailkeeper blocks kill if on killer or killed
Doc blocks kill if on the killed
Hider blocks kill on themselves but dies if their target is hit

That's 4 or 5 ways to block the kill from scum we had a playerlist of 18, let's assume 4 scum that's 14.

that's about 29% chance scum kill is innefective.

+1 Add that my modifier adds another super secret bit to that it’s more like 45% with a doc. Without claiming it’s hard to say that and I am trying to make sure ETL and those with more influence move onto the next day to lynch RC.

[OnTheMark]

Without claiming it’s hard to say that and I am trying to make sure ETL and those with more influence move onto the next day to lynch RC.

what if I'm town and you're planning all of your little games around trying to fuck with someone who is town and tired of getting fucked with because of their scumgame when town?

If you’re town you’re so antitown you’re town in name only.

You say you want to 1v1 Wraith yet provide no reasons.

I have damn near close to an airtight case here and you’re torpedoing it.

[OnTheMark]

Anyway for everyone's sanities let's do this.
Impossibear hammers Wraith, if I'm wrong then vig us and get us out of the game or lynch us tomorrow if you'd prefer.
I can't play this game like this. I have Wraith to still go on because I had that read on before but it's literally impossible to play mafia when everyone's goal is to isolate me as much as possible.

If you’re town you’re so antitown you’re town in name only.

You say you want to 1v1 Wraith yet provide no reasons.

I have damn near close to an airtight case here and you’re torpedoing it.

I roleblocked someone and no nightkill -> AIRTIGHT.

That’s why I said damn near. Especially with my modifier.

[OnTheMark]

what if I'm town and you're planning all of your little games around trying to fuck with someone who is town and tired of getting fucked with

This seems familiar.

Let me make this easy.

ETL who are we lynching?

[OnTheMark]

Oh I admit I am a stubborn fuck.

But the goal if town isn’t to convince the person who is yelling st you. That is an exercise in futility. It’s to convince town that it is right.

And you’re like not trying, which emphasizes you being scum. You want noise to save Dave. It’s quite literally a last gasp.

[OnTheMark]

If I don't force the 1v1

Kaede
Davesaz
OTM

And more have all basically said that town should be ignoring me because that's apparently the way to deal with my scum game. Pretend that I'm not there and Lynch me later in the game after ignoring my reads until then. What else should I do Ankamius when people are doing their best to prevent me from being able to influence the game like a normal player?

If people were willing to treat me like a normal player then I'd be able to play the game like one but since they aren't and I refuse to just not play the game at all like everyone seems to want, I have to do this.

I am not ignoring you specifically. I am testing you. Similar to anyone else doing what you are doing.

If I am proven wrong then your reads have weight.

I am just going to deny anyone doing the wrong thing.

[OnTheMark]

Mark

You understand that your case on Dave isn't very good, right?

Nope. Sure don’t.

It’s actually pretty damn good.

[OnTheMark]

Why not lynch dave and vig wraith? Everyone happy

I am okay with this if Dave flips town.

If Dave flips scum please vig RC.

[OnTheMark]

what if I'm town and you're planning all of your little games around trying to fuck with someone who is town and tired of getting fucked with

This seems familiar.

Let me make this easy.

ETL who are we lynching?

Honestly dude... I think davesaz is town. But I 100% follow your logic on why the information dictates he should be lynched. Under normal circumstances.

This game = not normal circumstances.

And given your night action reveal, I now firmly believe that not only is there NOT additional protection for town, but we were absolutely shot last night. To me, that says it's either Ouroboros or RMOJ as the culprit there, as they are really the only ones who would dictate such a move on N1. Given Ouroboros behavior this entire game, and RMOJ's claim/quest, I'm personally leaning towards it being more likely Ouroboros, especially given the fact that "super town #1 scumhunter" decided that me, MWNN and RMOJ were scum, and so far I know for a fact that 2 of those 3 is incorrect. If the quest pans out, it basically conftowns RMOJ because that effect really doesn't benefit scum

at all

to confirm a town player publicly. So it's only a matter of time before that is a thing, and I can see why preventing the quest completion would be scum-goal summo prioritate today. <<< That's what you should be looking out for, and anyone doing so, whether deliberately or "by accident" is dying pronto.

I think wilky is probably town. I think MariaR so isn't, and I don't understand the town reads there

at all

. I also think the fake mason claim with Ouroboros was scummy as fuck and potentially could have outed any real masons if any existed. I think the way things are looking, we probably don't have any and we got lucky there. But the problem exists that both players would have and should have known that was a possibility.

I'm conflicted on Ankamius who did fuck all for most of the first day but later seemed to become more engaged. Whether that is because she finally got interested once more info became available or because her team is getting closer to being discovered, I honestly have no idea.

Jingle thinks tchill is scum, I agree. He disappeared and we still haven't been answered regarding who he supposedly hid behind last night. And now we're waiting on a replacement. Who knows what will happen there. I believe that's a great and viable lynch slot for today.

Dunnstral is all kinds of wtf for me. No idea. Could lynch. Whatever.

Don't know on Kokichi.

Alchemist and pmatt both town imo.

And that's all I've got. These are my personal reads. Both Jingle and I have been super busy lately and haven't had a chance all last week or over the weekend to really connect on anything. So.. take that as you will.

ETL

p-edit: Too much shit to read, more ego-boosting, blah blah. I'll read later. I do have to get back to work now.

So if you follow my logic on why Dave should be lynched then we are lynching Dave yes?

[OnTheMark]

So if you follow my logic on why Dave should be lynched then we are lynching Dave yes?

Just because I follow the logic doesn't mean I believe it is sound given the other information ITT. As far as who we are lynching, to be quite honest with you, I don't care and I was done making any arguments for who we should lynch as of end of D1.

Whoever gets to L-1, gets our hammer. So if this is the lynch you want, you gotta work for it. I have no say here.

ETL

So let me get this straight:

You scumread Ouroboros and townread us yet you’re giving what we say equal credence to someone who you think killed you? Am I understanding you correctly?

[OnTheMark]

Fuck it. Scum can’t strongman if I block them.

I go first in NAR order.

Hence why I don’t believe any other protectives exist. I disable strongman.

I am sick and tired of strongman being an argument. Especially when RC said scum would have used it last night. They probably did.

[OnTheMark]

Fuck it. Scum can’t strongman if I block them.

????

I am strong strong.

My modifier is I go first no matter what in NAR.

Literally nothing stops my block.

A strongman scum loses to me and shot still doesn’t go off.

[OnTheMark]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Strongman

Strongman is a role modifier that signifies that any kills performed by this player cannot be blocked by any means - neither by Bulletproof, nor by Doctor or other protective roles,

nor by Roleblocks

.

My role PM explicitly says NAR like that is not used.

[OnTheMark]

It literally precedes the strongman submission so the shot doesn’t get fired.

[OnTheMark]

I cannot accept anyone besides Dave with my modifier.

I understand that there is a .02% chance that there could be something else.

I just simply refuse to believe it. With my modifier Dave has to be the lynch today.

Pedit Yes

[OnTheMark]

:thinks:

Hmm...

I like the idea of a strong role blocker targeting the Hider and then - using Bear's PoE of Vigilante versus hider - having Bear kill that slot, since I don't think the role blocker would interfere with the Vigilante's action.

Please don't actually commit to anything though.

Ghost

No. I don’t scumread Tchill.

We Lynch Dave then vig Wraith to demonstrate RC’s alignment.

If he’s as good as he says he is we test him and I try to stop the kill.

[OnTheMark]

We Lynch Dave then vig Wraith to demonstrate RC’s alignment.

I still don't follow this conclusion. Like, I get that you're saying RC is scum because defying the Dave wagon, but that's RC. Dave isn't his preferred lynch, so of course he's going to defy it. How is that alignment indicative? It's basically the same exact argument he had with us yesterday, because we defied the vent lynch thinking they were town.

Talk to me about Wraith flip > RC alignment.

RC is being defiant yes.
He is being defiant based on his skill.
He is doing it based solely on his word.

It’s what he does when he busses a scum, particularly a good scum which he can get credit for.

Since we lack an ability to cop RC testing RC tonight still ends up getting him what he wants so he stops being antitown. When Wraith flips town he will be proven incorrect and by his own words he should step aside.

And if he is proven right we eat humble pie and listen to him since scum have higher priority targets.

RC only started demanding Wraith mid day today look at why he did.

[OnTheMark]

So he busses Vent.

Then uses that credit for multiple mislynches.

It’s RC 101 particularly when there’s little to no PR risk

[OnTheMark]

Why not lynch dave and vig wraith? Everyone happy

I am okay with this if Dave flips town.

If Dave flips scum please vig RC.

Can everyone agree to this

How about Dave is town and doesn't flip at all.

You need to flip.

If you are town then sorry that things fell the way they did. I can’t say I would be sorry for pushing this but I wouldn’t.

Your flip is ultimately necessary.