Open 724 - Pick Your Power X/Y [Endgame]
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Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand Idea
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Yeah, stop with all the setup speccing please.In post 15, Mathdino wrote:Night 3 Vigilante/Vengeful: people keep crumbing this, stop crumbing. vig/venge someone based on community consensus. i doubt town picked vengeful but if anyone claims vengeful, policy lynch them (this is optimal play)
1-Shot Vigilante OR 1-Shot PGO: vig someone who's either dead weight or is likely to be lynched tomorrow. luckily we have a list of "most likely to be PR" to "least likely to be PR" so just try to hit vanillas imo. doubt anyone ever picks PGO in this setup
Cop OR 1-Shot Redirector: we hypoclaim cop targets tomorrow, remember to actually act like you have an inno
Universal Backup OR Role Cop: role cop is surprisingly not terrible. rolecop people at the top of the list. look for scum picking vengeful, redirector, etc.
Neighborizer OR Fruit Vendor: i sincerely hope no one picked fruit vendor. neighborize talkative hard-to-sorts who won't get NK'd. i used to be a great neighbour but now i just get NK'd so don't neighborize me thanks-
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Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand IdeaHe / Him / His
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You are aware of bold and italics, yes? Also, remind me, what does cognizant mean? Regardless, I believe in the WIFOM factor and thus am ambivalent about the claim. Policy lynching is okay in some circumstances tbh, but I don’t think this is one of them.In post 36, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis wrote:Konnichiwa minnasan! o((*^▽^*))o
VOTE: Almost50
I PERESONALLY believe that the Beefster wagon is SILLY on principle - scum would be FOOLISH to immediately claim that they picked a slot with a ROLEBLOCKING role in it considering how IMPROTANT that is to scum ( ⚆ _ ⚆ )
We shouldn't be POLICY lynching people UNTIL we have good reason to scumread them and as far as I am COGNIZANT we only possess reason to believe that Beefster is ALIGNED WITH the TOWN ヾ(。・ω・)シ
On a side note, minor scumread on MathDino right now—too much setup analysis and appeal to WIFOM as well as suggesting a policy lynch for no real reason other than disagreeing with when someone decides to claim. Not all antitown behaviors are worthy of policy lynches.-
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I do strongly consider meta, but are you really confident enough with your meta read to call Beef “lockscum”?In post 48, the worst wrote:In my history with Beefster I have seen
- town Beefster take the time to process Math's INTENSE LOGIC EXPLOSIONS and generally correctly conclude that he's coming from the right angle
- scum Beefster not take the time to process Math's INTENSE LOGIC EXPLOSIONS and suggest he's scum for them
Actual read progression/flip flopping in Earthbound is the only transgression I can think of
So my firsr impeession of Beef is lolscum, what makes you townread him?-
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I strongly agree with this post.In post 61, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis wrote:wow.... i possess NO repsonse to play like that ( ̄へ ̄)
still I am one WHOM believes in REFORMATION! just because he's a BAD townplayer doesn't mean we have to burn a MISLYNCH on him, we can simply ENCOURAGE him to play better and have confidence o(*≧□≦)o
I am cognizant of the implication ^_^the worst wrote:(as town ftr)-
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I townread Saske for their reads, not the draft. I feel that picking a high number helps ensure you don’t conflict with someone else, so I wouldn’t rule out Saske scum.In post 87, the worst wrote:
This just hit me like a brickIn post 11, Mathdino wrote:anyway, every game, someone asks "what if scum WIFOM'd the draft???"
and every game, it turns out that no, scum actually does want power roles, they did not WIFOM the draft and pick the same numbers
the only person in this game i think would do that is A50
Also assume Saske is town by draft because scum would never let someone pick such a high number?-
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VOTE: MathDinoIn post 102, Mathdino wrote:interestingly, FMPOV, while everyone would've had a 3/13 (or 23.1%) chance of being scum
due to the draft ruling out a bunch of scumteams, each of the singletons (this includes janitor FMPOV) actually has a 26.2% chance of being scum
the probability of someone in a duplet being scum is 21.9%
the probability of one of the triplets being scum is only 18.5%
scum is straight up more likely to be in the top half than the bottom half in this setup, and i'm guessing i can prove it using past results
so the risk early on is lynching potential PRs-
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How do you know SIMYK is an alt when they keep denying it?In post 123, Mathdino wrote:SIMYK is an alt yeah
so is the janitor
janitor the problem is that you seem more focused right now on tearing down information than building it
the point of early game is to go from low information to high information
i literally provided calculations proving that in this setup, there are people who are more likely to be scum
we have information, both from the draft and from 5 pages of content
but instead of commenting on it you've just questioned reasoning that i made in my first post
which i did specifically to produce more information.-
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1. How is Lovebird town?In post 133, Mathdino wrote:guys it doesn't make any sense for beefster to be lying
he'd just get fucked in massclaim
i doubt scum-him gets jailkeeper and thinks "oh boy lemme just pretend to be a VT instead of using my claim as a get out of jail free card later"
beefster is almost certainly vanilla
wouldn't mind if he ate vig tbh
Edit: you're in luck because lovebird is town
2. Didn’t you want to PL Beefster earlier?-
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I mean, it hasn’t really seemed like you contributed anything really to this point (though the same could be said for me.)In post 154, The Janitor wrote:What's objectively bad about my posts ?
I don't think a mafia player should follow a set plan or scum/townhunt in a certain way... Maybe I play differently than you but if something bothers me, why wouldn't I question it?
I'm an alt yes-
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Yeah, we had a bunch of info... That basically amounts to WIFOM, yet you seem very intent on focusing on said useless information.In post 180, Mathdino wrote:@Janitor: quit the bs
your posts have not been useful and do not demonstrate a town mindset
i have obviously evolved my reads since my literal first post, you're harping on me trying to create information out of what i had available to me at the time
RVS is great and all but it's stupid when you have information available already
also your slot ALWAYS had higher scum equity to me. i picked 2 because i thought scum would pick it.
you picked 2. and i'm townreading iconeum and TW more than you, soooooooOOOOOO...-
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Ok, except I don’t see Math’s setup speccing here really helping anyone. It just makes it easier for scum to play around.In post 233, mutantdevle wrote:
Because most people get the setup spec wrong and I enjoy correcting them with facts and statistics :3In post 41, the worst wrote:Anyone feel like spoonfeeding me why any of the setup spec p1 makes sense?
Seriously though, it can be helpful. Last game I was able to predict (and prevent) a mafia night kill and fairly confidently figure out one of the mafias through setup spec and analysis of past games. Sadly, I woke up dead that night since the mafia knew my role and had a vig. Town lost that game (mostly due to toxicity)-
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What???? 95% of his posts deal with setup spec which is NAI at best.In post 261, Almost50 wrote:Of mutant is scum here, consider me overly impressed. I have never seen him look townier!-
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Point me to the multiple reads he made. I didn’t see them.In post 263, Almost50 wrote:When was the last time he actually posted anything other than bad reads and confusion?? Here he is actually providing some information and cars to argue back with facts.-
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Your argument is an argument of WIFOM: there is nothing preventing scum from doing 1-2-3 by ththey can. And I don’t necessarily consider that bad either.In post 300, Mathdino wrote:
fuck off, manIn post 299, Almost50 wrote:
That would be because you're not reading what I'm typing, perhaps?In post 298, Mathdino wrote:also why no interest in the 4s and 5s?
you know as well as i do that scum is not literally {1, 2, 3}
why is iconeum MORE likely to be scum than TW? why lynch in increasing order?
and since we know scum is not {1, 2, 3}, that confirms someone as scum outside that group. going by your logic, that would heavily implicate a 4 or 5.
your theory at its most basic makes sense -- there's scum in the low numbers. obviously.
but you don't seem to be acting in a way that's actually in line with you having thought through your draft-based setup spec.-
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Just leave please.In post 310, Mathdino wrote:that they're a great motivation to stop people from
- making shit votes with 0 reasoning
- self-voting in lylo?-
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I’ve never played this setup before; in fact, this like my 2nd game in the open queue (and the 1st one I replaced out of).In post 314, Mathdino wrote:have you been shot by a vigilante in this setup after getting cop cleared, jailkept, neighborized, and roleblocked?
no?
towns are stupid, i don't trust them
i will setup spec all i damn well please
Pedit: I need time to fully sort genuine scumreads. I comment on things that I 1) feel confident about and 2) stick out to me. Most of the scum hunting that has taken place doesn’t really stick out. On the other hand, the setup spec does.-
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Sorry, I genuinely read it as lockscum; now I see it is lockscum and that makes more sense.In post 317, the worst wrote:
careful with wording there (fml i can't spell)In post 316, Ircher wrote:
I do strongly consider meta, but are you really confident enough with your meta read to call Beef “lockscum”?In post 48, the worst wrote:In my history with Beefster I have seen
- town Beefster take the time to process Math's INTENSE LOGIC EXPLOSIONS and generally correctly conclude that he's coming from the right angle
- scum Beefster not take the time to process Math's INTENSE LOGIC EXPLOSIONS and suggest he's scum for them
Actual read progression/flip flopping in Earthbound is the only transgression I can think of
So myfirsr impeessionof Beef islolscum, what makes you townread him?
1. first impression sod1
2. lolscum is a first impression read, 'lockscum' is something I pretty much only use mechanically-
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1) Same number —- No. That accomplished nothing; risk much greater than rewardIn post 328, Mathdino wrote:i don't even know what to say to players like you
on page fucking 1 and 2, in which half the players hadn't posted yet, yes i'm going to focus on the information i have available to me
my reads are clearly independent of my setup spec, which only INFORMS my reads
you don't know the meaning of WIFOM. scum does not send in draft numbers in this setup to fake town out, they send it to rob town of PRs and get good PRs when possible
so talk to me in specifics instead of trashing everything i have to say
do you think 2 scum would pick the same number to fake out town? if so, who in this setup would do so? i already discussed this possibility
do you think scum would pick all high numbers, essentially guaranteeing town gets the cop?
do you think scum would pick {1, 2, 3}?
2) All high numbers — Possible but they do risk getting locked out of certain roles
3) 123 — Absolutely! Explain why not—There may be a duplicate, but given your feelings on the matter, I feel that risk is justified.
It’s not simply a matter of nullifying everything you said. It’s just hard to figure where your reads are and why because there is so much setup spec intermixed.
Pedit: Math - Lean Scum; too much setup spec, hard to follow reads
Mutant - Neutral Scum; again, a lot of setup spec and not much in reads.
Taly - Lean Town - Liked the post they made
Almost50 - Null town - Nothing really notable to say here
Beefster - Null Scum - Hard to say; I know Almost50 townread here and math wants to PL; I remember most of Beefs posts being pretty lackluster
SIMYK - Likely Town - I like your posts in general and participation so far
Janitor - Neutral scum - Bunch of non-reads but hard to say that they have a high chance of being scum
Iconeum - Null Scum - Can’t remember anything significant from them other than a general scum vibe-
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1) What makes you think 1) isn’t in good faith?In post 330, Mathdino wrote:
1. i don't think your question is in good faith so i'm not answering thatIn post 325, Ircher wrote:
1. How is Lovebird town?In post 133, Mathdino wrote:guys it doesn't make any sense for beefster to be lying
he'd just get fucked in massclaim
i doubt scum-him gets jailkeeper and thinks "oh boy lemme just pretend to be a VT instead of using my claim as a get out of jail free card later"
beefster is almost certainly vanilla
wouldn't mind if he ate vig tbh
Edit: you're in luck because lovebird is town
2. Didn’t you want to PL Beefster earlier?
2. how is that inconsistent with what i'm saying here
"beefster isn't lying" doesn't mean "beefster is town"
it just means beefster is probably actually vanilla and didn't get his tracker/jailkeeper pick
2) Fair enough I guess-
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1) I highly doubt this setup is breakable primarily due to swingIn post 341, Mathdino wrote:then that's your fault, not mine
because i've been doing loads of genuine scumhunting, and there's always those 2 or 3 players that laser focus on my setup spec for whatever reason
my entire thing on this site is breaking setups, i've broken 3 opens before
put your money where your mouth is -- if you want people to talk more about reads and less about setup, do it yourself
2) You’ve done genuine scum hunting, but it is hard to follow when I going through linearly; furthermore, a lot of it is obscured by your setup speccing
3) That is true; real issue is I honestly don’t have much in terms of reads right now.
Pedit: I think part of the issue is understanding how I catch up. I’m not spending 2 minutes scrutinizing each post; I read through and if I find something I feel is worth commenting on, I do so. Again, the interspersing of setup spec and reads makes it hard to follow; also, my memory is decent but I don’t always pay attn well; quotes help in that respect.-
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#1: I like the formattingIn post 218, Taly wrote:Oh shit Fast-ass game.
Multiple things I picked up through half-skim/half-reading. ((I'm going to reread later, though))
1)I've seen everyone here before
{Almost50, Brassherald, Ausuka}the most.
{Lalendra, Ircher, Mathdino, Lovebird, the worst, Iconeum}to a lower degree.
I've seen the rest of the playerlist once or twice:{mutant, Beefster, Simyk, The Janitor}
2)Math, can you explain to me your analysis of the draft in depth? It's NAI for someone to try and get a PR because it helps the alignment of the person it's under. I mostly play games where I'm more likely to get a PR than not. This is a preference, not an AI thing, unless I'm misinterpreting your post.
Honestly, I pre-planned the number I was going to send to the Mod BEFORE the full playerlist even signed up.
-I didn't think to send a number higher than 10 because I had no clue what other people would do.
-I figured since{1, 2, 3}were more likely to be repeated, and{8, 9, 10}were a bit too high, I went with the lowest in{4, 5, 6, 7}
I'm actively working to be NKed due to loud AF gamesolving, so that's how that went...
3)204 I don't see this coming from scum, pretty bold, and I seethe worstis asking questions and making assessments.Early townlean
4)21Lovebird, you stated that the people on page 1 are town, can you provide some reasoning, and has that changed for you?
5)Can people explain their reads to me onBeefster? Honestly, I like 16 of him, I don't see much benefit in discussing setup extremely early, I think that's likely to cause WIFOM later and this post tells me he's aware of too much information being spewed would end up hurting the town later.
6)
- Talk to me about them, it hasn't been a full 24 hours yet so the quick 9 pages are fuzzy to me.Mathdino wrote:i have 5 reads already
7)138 I'm not fond of this post, you quotedthe worstseveral times and then didn't really elaborate on your thoughts or engage with questions, I don't see your thought process.
VOTE: Iconeum
I may be unresponsive for the most, if not the rest of the day; I don't know yet. In either case, if I'm unavailable now, I'll be more active later. If I remain active, then I'll be keeping a medium standard.
I'm not in a good frame of mind for Mafia. X_X
Also, some of you already know this, but detailing your thoughts with questions and organizing them when you're posing them to me is the best way for me to get my thoughts out there and for worthwhile engagement.
2) I like the questions and angle being taken here
3) I like the fairly clear presentation of reads
4) A lot of thought was put into this post
5) It just registers a town vibe for me.-
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You’ve apparently posted much more than I remembered originally. A very quick glance at the iso (as I had a Null read 2 minutes ago) says you are lean town because of what you’ve posted about.In post 350, the worst wrote:how do you read me (besides adorable)?
Pedit: I mean, scum do gain from being hard to follow because then they can be more width-washy about their reads. But in a way, you are right; I need to re-evaluate my read on you but it’s late right now, so I don’t have time atm.
UNVOTE: for now.
Pedit2: I mean tbh, it probably does play some role.-
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It was suggested by the wording but was not explicitly stated. Regardless if MathBlade hates this catch-up style, I’m still doing it because it is what I am used to doing.In post 385, mutantdevle wrote:
Where does he mention me making multiple reads?In post 333, Ircher wrote:
Point me to the multiple reads he made. I didn’t see them.In post 263, Almost50 wrote:When was the last time he actually posted anything other than bad reads and confusion?? Here he is actually providing some information and cars to argue back with facts.
If anything, he's complimenting my lack of focus on reads.-
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Ah, that might have been a stupid auto-correct issue.In post 410, brassherald wrote:
When you called him MathBlade?In post 409, Ircher wrote:That’s super irrelevant; when did you think I thought MathDino was MathBlade?-
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Spoiler: My Reevaluation of the First 200 Posts
Spoiler: Reads to Post 25
Spoiler: How to read this readslist
Spoiler: Reads to post 75
Spoiler: How to read this readslist
Spoiler: Reads to post 125
Spoiler: How to read this readslist-
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Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand Idea
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That is because that only covered the first 200 posts of thread which you really didn't post in.In post 440, mutantdevle wrote:Why the plural? I'm only not reading one of them because it's blatantly too long. I started reading it and saw that he was simply quoting every other post and describing it as null. What do I gain from reading that? I CTRL+F ed my own name to see if there was anything I need to address and there wasn't. There's nothing in that post (as far as I'm aware) that addresses my stance.
Honestly, when I look at a post like that I just think about Irchers own view:In post 354, Ircher wrote:I mean, scum do gain from being hard to follow because then they can be more width-washy about their reads.
I don't think this is a fair representation of my readlist. Yes, I have a good number of players in the null and neutral areas, but unlike most people's reads, I am more conservative about giving super confident reads. Also, if you actually took the time to read the 2nd spoiler about how to read the reads list, you would understand that my neutral reads != my null reads, and that my neutral reads actually do lean toward one side or the other rather than being completely in the middle.In post 442, Mathdino wrote:tl;dr of ircher's reads list: i am going to summarise why 80% of the posts in this game are null and then give a reads list in which 80% of the players are null
The readslist looks fine on MafBlack though I admit I am not quite sure how it looks on other themes. Still, you could just quote it and look at it without the color, but again, I understand that takes additional effort that I myself probably wouldn't do tbh.In [post=446][/post], mutantdevle wrote:
Done. All that stands out is the poor use of the colour yellow.In [post=#10186013][/post], mutantdevle wrote:
I would say yes, I'm pretty self-conscious in general both about the way people perceive me and also about my reads and the amount of bias I may have.In post 450, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis wrote:Ircher are you NORMALLY this self-conscious about HOW people perceive your pushes? It is exacerbatingly excruciatingly exceptionally DIFFICULT for me to see how you are INTERACTING with Mathdino in any other way ┐| ̄_ ̄✿|┌
Yes, I did state that. And, honestly, I'm not sure what the issue with it is?In post 451, Mathdino wrote:holy balls did he actually say that
lynch this please, this slot is either dangerously bad or scum
Did you even read the final reads list? You would've noted that 0% => Null => Completely mixed. That doesn't exactly qualify as a scumread, and you don't need exceptional reasons really to not townread a person.In post 463, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis wrote:Honestly I EMPATHIZE with how Math is reacting to Ircher and don't think it's scummy in an IDENTICAL manner A50-hannin/me INTERACTIONS are ._.
Neither of them townread each other and Ircher's reasons are RIDICULOUS at best ( ̄へ ̄)-
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But at this point, you are as biased against me as I am against you. I always do my reads that way (when I'm not doing them in a hurry). It is somewhat complicated, maybe more so than necessary. But that aside, you cannot say that I don't seem to care about solving or moving the game along. Just because I present a different perspective (which, for all I know, may actually be really bad, but that's beyond the point) and/or don't have killer reads does not at all mean I don't care about advancing or moving the game along. And no, I disagree of your interpretation of a readslist; a reads list is just that, presenting your reads. It definitely doesn't need to be a preamble to some other action (though it can be), and it doesn't necessarily have to bring the game closer to a solution (though it would be better if it did). It is a way of articulating one's current perspective of the game.In post 483, Mathdino wrote:
that's a matter of semantics, and is irrelevant to actions that affect the gameIn post 482, Ircher wrote:I don't think this is a fair representation of my readlist. Yes, I have a good number of players in the null and neutral areas, but unlike most people's reads, I am more conservative about giving super confident reads. Also, if you actually took the time to read the 2nd spoiler about how to read the reads list, you would understand that my neutral reads != my null reads, and that my neutral reads actually do lean toward one side or the other rather than being completely in the middle.
a reads list isn't some hyper complicated way of viewing each individual's probabilities of being scum
it should be either an action bringing the game further to a solution
or a preamble to other actions (like wagoning or defending) that move the game along
your reads list was just as useless. you don't seem to really care about solving or moving the game.
Do you mean before I made that post? Before then, I was mostly scumreading Math fyi but then I decided to reevaluate by reading again from the beginning.In post 487, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis wrote:
That's NOT what I'm talking about (;¬_ლ)In post 482, Ircher wrote:Did you even read the final reads list? You would've noted that 0% => Null => Completely mixed. That doesn't exactly qualify as a scumread, and you don't need exceptional reasons really to not townread a person.
If you have a PLAYER at 0% in your READLIST then it IS LOGICAL that you interact with them the way you are with Math-sensei ┐( ̄ヘ ̄)┌
Also OKAY... I will make sure that Ausuka-chan backs you up and then REREAD your posts with that in mind (ʃ⌣́,⌣́ƪ)-
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Yes and no.In post 521, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis wrote:Ircher do you comprehend what I mean when I say that someone is talking TO someone but not WITH someone? ( ´・ш・)-
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The problem is primarily one of context; you stated one thing yet what you stated next seem to be opposite of what I was expecting. I don't know if this helps you any more...In post 524, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis wrote:
Can you ELABORATE what confuses you then? I think understanding what I mean will help you understand my point from earlier Σ(-᷅_-᷄๑)In post 523, Ircher wrote:
Yes and no.In post 521, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis wrote:Ircher do you comprehend what I mean when I say that someone is talking TO someone but not WITH someone? ( ´・ш・)-
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Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand Idea
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No, I simply wanted you to be aware of my game history. The meta dive was just suggested in case you considered actually making comparisons to this!me and past!me yourself. (But in a way, yes, my wiki page is accurate statistics' wise, so maybe it should be something you should consider.)-
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Setup spec is not intrinsicly scummy;In post 563, mutantdevle wrote:
If you're going to consider setup spec as scummyIn post 520, Ircher wrote:5. 227 to 235 and 237 to 244 by mutantdevle: Aside from your two "I need to catch up posts", your first several posts deal almost exclusively with the setup and the draft and without anything to do with some kind of read one way or another. I don't necessarily consider that a good thing, and tbqh, it is actually a good way to look like town as scum. I'll have to see though if this trend continues, or if this is just part of your catch-up which you seem to be doing sequentially like I normally do. (Leaning Scum)
Then you may as well lock scum me now.
The longer I live the more setup spec I'm going to do and, with enough information, I could very well 'solve' the game rather than read it provided I can convince others of my point of view.however, doing it exclusively IS for multiple reasonsincludingbeing able to easily “look town” as scum (scum can do a very good job, more so generally than townies with setup spec) and while a few things we’ve done with setup spec increases our chances of winning (I’m primarily referring to MathDino’s argument that scum would not choose the same draft number), the majority of it at this stage are simply conjectures that we really cannot act on at this stage of the game; I.e.: the emphasis should be more on reads and scumhunting and less on breaking the setup and finding associative.-
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I'm sorry, but I do not think this kind of game state is really helping anyone... We should reduce the number of wagons so we can get some info BEFORE the end of the day.In post 582, yessiree wrote:VC 1.8
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch
The Janitor (3) - Iconeum, Beefster, Ircher
Ircher (3) - SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis, Mathdino, mutantdevle,
Lalendra (3) - Ausuka, the worst, Taly
Ausuka (2) - Lovebird, brassherald
Iconeum (1) - Almost50
Not voting - Lalendra, The Janitor
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-05-15 21:01:53)-
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280:
The Janitor (5) - Mathdino, Almost50, Iconeum, Beefster, mutantdevle
No real counterwagons; there is I guess Almost50 with 2 votes (SYMIK andd Brass) that was at three votes at the 228 votecount.
481:
The Janitor (4) - Almost50, Iconeum, Beefster, Ircher
Ircher (3) - SYMIK, Mathdino, mutantdevle
Also want to note that The Worst and Ausuka were on my wagon at some point between 218 and 418.
Janitor's wagon has been around for quite some time, and never really dissolved.
582:
The Janitor (3) - Iconeum, Beefster, Ircher
Ircher (3) - SYMIK, Mathdino, mutantdevle,
Lalendra (3) - Ausuka, the worst, Taly
Ausuka (2) - Lovebird, brassherald
Iconeum (1) - Almost50/davesaz
Not voting - Lalendra, The Janitor
So basically, there are no clear scumreads at this point and the game is basically at a standstill.
We have The Janitor wagon which has basically been here the entire game, and I don't think anyone has even once tried to derail the wagon directly. That kinda makes me uncomfortable about the wagon. I'm fine with Iconeum on the wagon but not so sure about Beefster.
Next, we have my wagon. I'm pretty sure Mathdino and mutant are not going to be moving off it anytime soon and while they do scumread me, I'm not sure how much is based off a general scum vibe from me and how much is because they did not like my entrance (not my first post but the subsequent ones) and do not like my personality/playstyle.
Then, we have the Lalendra wagon. At least two players that I more or less townread are on it... But I'm not sure if it will get anywhere. Like, I agree that Lalendra hasn't done much, but what is this wagon accomplishing?
Okay, now I find the Ausuka wagon a bit weird. Like, both Lovebird and brassherald haven't been in the game thread that much, and they seem quite comfortable on a wagon that hasn't and probably isn't going to go anywhere. Lovebird has been on it since 280, when a lot of people were on The Janitor's wagon. Brassherald joined by 418 (which is admittedly a wide gap, but I do think that is around the time Brass started posting). They haven't moved off it since, and I don't think they have done a huge job of articulating exactly why they are on it to begin with.
It is also puzzling why Almost50 switched from voting themselves earlier to voteparking (perhaps the wrong word to use--too strong--but I'm using anyway) on Iconeum. I'm pretty sure around 60%-70% of the thread has expressed a strong disapproval of lynching Iconeum in general on D1, so I'm quite confident that I can say that this wagon is going nowhere. I'll have to go back, find, and reread the post where A50 switches vote though to see why they joined.
Finally, we have Lalendra and The Janitor not voting. Did lalendra ever express any kind of weekend V/LA (I mean, I would ask the same of brassherald, but they are at least voting) because there lack of presence is quite noticable. I feel they ought to have some kind of opinion by this point in the game. I know The Janitor has reads, and they have been working at catch up... But again, why are you not voting at the present time? I feel like I ought to give The Janitor the benefit of the doubt though--maybe they have been spending so much time catching up that they have not been able to spend some time to really consolidate their reads.-
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I am almost certain Mathdino expressed discomfort (primarily for setup-related reasons, but that's beyond the point), and I'm pretty sure that someone else did as well, but maybe I am wrong in that respect.-
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Activity Overview as of 6:36 PM EDT on May 6:
the worst May 03, 08:27pm May 06, 06:23pm 0 days 0 hours 110
SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis May 03, 10:10pm May 05, 11:28pm 0 days 19 hours 95
Mathdino May 03, 08:28pm May 06, 06:56am 0 days 11 hours 92
Almost50 May 03, 08:40pm May 06, 01:36pm 0 days 4 hours 73
mutantdevle May 04, 12:51pm May 06, 04:49pm 0 days 1 hour 61
Ircher May 04, 07:15am May 06, 06:35pm 0 days 0 hours 42
The Janitor May 04, 01:29am May 06, 05:49pm 0 days 0 hours 28
Lovebird May 03, 08:26pm May 06, 02:53pm 0 days 3 hours 24
Iconeum May 04, 01:54am May 04, 01:37pm 2 days 4 hours 20
yessiree Apr 30, 10:26am May 06, 06:14pm 0 days 0 hours 20
brassherald May 03, 08:42pm May 05, 09:11am 1 day 9 hours 13
Ausuka May 04, 02:34am May 06, 02:53pm 0 days 3 hours 12
Taly May 04, 08:35am May 06, 10:15am 0 days 8 hours 9
davesaz May 06, 03:13pm May 06, 06:21pm 0 days 0 hours 6
Lalendra May 04, 12:09pm May 04, 04:58pm 2 days 1 hour 6
Beefster May 03, 08:37pm May 06, 03:24pm 0 days 3 hours 3
Well, this is certainly interesting. First off, (and this really isn't that relevant to the game), my post count is a bit lower than I expected (in comparison to the people with the most posts). Perhaps even more surprising is the fact that The Janitor has the next most posts after me. Yeah, I'm really starting to think that lynching the Janitor is something scum wants to happen--no real counterwagons, not a whole lot of opposition, and honestly, not too hard to make a decent case against the Janitor.
So what other stuff does this overview tell us? Well, Beefster, despite having the least number of posts in the thread, seems to have quite a prominent profile. It is really strange, but I think that has to do with his opening post--it was quite notable.
Next, with the second least number of posts are Lalendra and davesaz (who just replaced in, so again, not very surprising). I definitely want more from Lalendra.
Taly has only 9 posts, but most of those posts were longer, so I see no real issue there.
Ausuka has 12 posts, and it would probably help if they had a few more, but they have expressed some notable views, so their activity is fine.
Moving on, we have brassherald with 13 posts. That makes sense--they made a lot of posts in sequence I think at one point and then kinda vanished. Like Lalendra, I really want more from them, and not just more posts--more content as well.
Iconeum has 20 posts, and I think they were V/LA so that's fine. They were fairly active in the early game.
Lovebird has 24 posts, and almost none of them really help me in determining their alignment. That is however primarily a playstyle issue; they do not seem to like to give many explanations for their reads, and it is acceptable I guess (as long as others can read them) even if it is not something I prefer.
Everyone else is pretty much fine as far as activity and content goes.
Yeah, I think I'm really starting to prefer the Lalendra wagon over The Janitor right now...
VOTE: Lalendra-
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Just because something can be replaced doesn't mean one should do nothing before then. And Lalendra is no where close to being lynched atm.In post 621, Mathdino wrote:Code: Select all
A VOICE BOOMS FROM ABOVE.
IT SAYS:
"THOU SHALT NOT LYNCH
THAT WHICH CAN BE REPLACED"-
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1.
Likely true, but The Janitor has had a wagon forever and never had a counterwagon to it, making me a bit suspicious. Obviously, I am not voting myself. And tbqh, Lalendra isn't a bad vote considering the game state.In [post]638[/post], Mathdino wrote:
Lalendra flaking out is not correlated with her alignment guysIn [post=#10197240]638[/post], Mathdino wrote:
2. The Worst posts a case on Lalendra in 635 --> I support this case.
3. 636 by Mathdino: Quotes a post from Lalendra in another game --> Okay, but how does that counter The Worst case which is basically showing that every post Lalendra has made this game not only doesn't take a side, but also have almost zero value to anyone. (Actually, I find this post a bit on the suspicious side esp. when combined with 621; it feels like an active attempt to derail a wagon without compelling reason (at least imo) why.)
4. 646 are reads by Iconeum --> Lots of townreads, probably leaning a bit more on the town side cuz of that but not much else to comment there.
5. 650: Iconeum asks why The Janitor has stopped being the focus of discussion --> Multiple reasons: 1) I think he did step up his game some since his opening. Not much, but a decent degree to shift focus elsewhere some 2) At its height, Janitor's wagon had no counterwagons; that's not a good sign. 3) Another VC related reason--Janitor's wagon has existed practically the entire game
6. In 655, Iconeum believes we are exaggerating the scumminess of some of Lalendra posts --> Probably true, but when they only have six or so posts (I can't remember the number), there is not much to go by, now is there? I think (see The Worst's case in 635) that the fact that none of Lalendra's posts really had any relevance to solving the game in any way is pretty tell-tale sign. Add to that Mathdino's aggressive attempt to derail the wagon (though this is slippery territory), and I think we have a fairly solid case though it could of course benefit from more evidence.
7. 659: According to Iconeum, all of Lalendra's posts were from Friday --> Were they? I thought they posted some Saturday? Well, I don't look at timestamps too much, so that is probably true. Still, by the time Lalendra entered the thread, there was enough content to (imo) give some kind of read or take some kind of stance.
8. Some stuff about Ausuka in 666 --> Quick question: you did factor in Ausuka's meta experience with me (as well as read accuracy with me) when making that re-evaluation, right?
9. 670: More from Iconeum about Ausuka read --> I mean, I did make that big post in that time frame, and Ausuka did clarify later that the unvote was because she needed to reevaluate after that. Also, I think it is a bit less effort and more of a meta-based read. (Note: Just providing an alternate viewpoint here.)
10. 690 by Mutantdevle paints my wagon 'leap' from The Janitor to Lalendra as scummy --> I think this is a poor representation of the actual progression. First of all, to say I didn't scumread Lalendra isn't exactly true (maybe I was 1% confident they were town in a readslist, but such a low % doesn't matter that much here). And yes, I did acknowledge flaws with the Lalendra wagon; however, I also pointed out some major flaws with The Janitor wagon. Nothing in mafia is black-and-white; you must consider everything as an aggregate. Now, if you were paying attn to those two posts, you would understand my reason for my change and my acknowledgement that while it was perhaps not the ideal change, it was the better direction to head in from my perspective.-
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That's cuz the mod made a mistake... Is there an issue with that?In post 807, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis wrote:pedit: wait I did NOT notice that ircher was voting Lalendra 「(゚ペ)-
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1.
I disagree that your predecessor was hilariously town; in fact, they are the only slot I have like zero read on currently. As far as Ausuka and I having one scum between us... Not sure where you get that from... Would you like to elaborate?In [post]753[/post], Eddie Cane wrote:
My predecessor is hilariously town lol if I see any votes on him I'm probably fosing themIn [post=#10200185]753[/post], Eddie Cane wrote:
Page 17. Skimmed a fair bit of this. I think Ausuka and Ircher has a scum probably, definitely not SvS though.
2.
I believe that the majority of the thread believes the opposite. Like seriously, you had apparently zero issue with my starting posts, but then you find my later posts not so good? This honestly makes little sense to me.In [post]757[/post], Eddie Cane wrote:
Ircher's sliding a lot as of page 18.In [post=#10201290]757[/post], Eddie Cane wrote:
No, I did not, as I can see you found out. Also, I stopped playing mafia for like a year (with the exception of the recent marathon weekend); it is possible my meta has changed some. (As far as read confidence goes, itIn [post]757[/post], Eddie Cane wrote:
Didn't you give way more reads in 1900? I'll need to pull that up I thinkIn [post=#10201290]757[/post], Eddie Cane wrote:reallydepends on the game.)
3.
(Referring to his reads in 764.) I mean, I disagree with you being town to some degree. I also disagree with Mutant being town. The rest seem fine for the most part.In [post]773[/post], Eddie Cane wrote:
Does anybody disagree with this?In [post=#10201644]773[/post], Eddie Cane wrote:
4.
You gave the reason yourself... Bigger question--what is wrong with the wagon? You townread the majority of the wagon, and I don't remember you specifically townreading Lalendra to a large extent.In [post]777[/post], Eddie Cane wrote:
Why is Lalendra the big wagon?In [post=#10201666]777[/post], Eddie Cane wrote:I don't remember them giving much of any impression.
5.In [post]784[/post], Mathdino wrote:
(which basically consists of "i don't like wagoning lurkers,In [post=#10201852]784[/post], Mathdino wrote:we have scumreads available, lalendra is basically null")Then why are you not pushing those scumreads. (I mean, if you are talking about me, you have said you scumread me all, but you aren't really pushing your scumread of me in a way that is leading anywhere.) The Janitor wagon has existed all game, and it has basically gone...Oh really?nowhere. And I don't see you pushing any other scumreads.
6.
I say more likely town than scum. But I do agree that their alignment isn't really clear at the moment.In [post]793[/post], Mathdino wrote:
[what] is ausuka's alignmentIn [post=#10202827]793[/post], Mathdino wrote:
7.
Umm.... Why? (Or more as to, elaborate on why I/Lalendra are the two best choices for the lynch.)In [post]807[/post], SIMYK wrote:
The LYNCH today should be between Ircher/Lalendra in my opinion,In [post=#10202904]807[/post], SIMYK wrote:
8.
Seriously?In [post]811[/post], The Worst wrote:
Aarrrgggghhhh this wagon is irresistableIn [post=#10202946]811[/post], The Worst wrote:
Lalendraslot--we have unfinisher business.
VOTE: Ircher
9.
I don't really disagree with this course of action. I would prefer Lovebird being vigged over Ausuka, but I guess that really doesn't matter as much. (And, while I have my doubts about Janitor being scum, it probably is the best lynch overall.)In [post]821[/post], Mathdino wrote:
Janitor is probably the safest lynch tbhIn [post=#10206714]821[/post], Mathdino wrote:
Copcheck Ircher, Vig Ausuka/Lovebird?
Just, if I don't get lynched, I would prefer not to be vigged, okay?
10.
Why not? It is not necessarily (at least imo) that you have acted scummy so much as being hard to read.In [post]823[/post], Lovebird wrote:
Why would we vig me?In [post=#10206777]823[/post], Lovebird wrote:
11. Lovebird in 832 gives a reads list. --> I'm not so sure about these reads; they definitely are that inline with mine...
12.
Fair enough.In [post]834[/post], SIMYK wrote:
pedit: I would NOT vote a null slot if one of my scumreads were wagonning it, especially in THIS setup (ʃ⌣́,⌣́ƪ)In [post=#10209319]834[/post], SIMYK wrote:-
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Spoiler: Reads
Spoiler: How to read this readslist
I still currently prefer Lalendra despite having a greater scumread on The Janitor, primarily because again, they have been wagoned basically the entire game, and the Janitor wagon had no real counter at its peak.-
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I still don't understand what you dislike about my later posts... But okay, your explanation for why you were fine with my earlier posts suffices for now.
Pedit: Oh, that wasn't a softclaim. I can just would prefer not being vigged if I survived the lynch. It really isn't a super unreasonable expectation that someone would consider vigging me, after all. (I mean, now, it would be, but when I was reading then, that was not the case.)
@Eddie: Okay
Pedit2: ...........The latter probably, though I'm biased.-
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It wasn't aIn post 869, mutantdevle wrote:Also, just as a general warning to everyone: DON'T. FUCKING. CRUMB. OR. SOFT.soft.-
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Comments are bolded and in purple.In post 889, Taly wrote:D1 Taly Full Readslist
Town
- While I don't fully agree with their approach on setup right now, I think it's largely based on playstyle and I feel like he's put forth a strong voice within the playerlist and he's done the most to expand on his thinking. He's also thought of the other possibilities in a game which tells me he's looking beyond the surface level in order to solve it.Math - Strong Townread
Fair enough.
- I think I've beat this to death so far,Ircher - Strong Townreadif anyone has questions; thenPLEASE TALK TO ME.
- Very similar case; don't agree with the suspicion on them and I feel like they're actively working to gamesolve.Janitor - Moderate Townread
I mean, I do agree they are putting forth some effort and are trying to some extent to gamesolve.... But at the same time, I don't think they are actually keen on solving the game... Not sure if you understand what I'm saying here...
- I'm pretty familiar withAusuka - Moderate TownreadAusuka; her being quick to try and gauge for information through wagons while also going into great depth about her perceptions give this a solid townread on her. This is partially meta, but with in-thread game evidence, I feel like this is town either way.
Okay.
- Slightly questioning this a bit; but I think the worst's mentality of being laid back while engaging is town-motivated. I think he's pushing boundaries in order to improve his vision of the game.the worst - Moderate Townread
Any particular reason you are questioning this?
- Made self a very prominent presence amongst their little time being among the playerlist. Giving reads and most definitely displaying a forward gamesolve standpoint.Eddie - Slight Townread
Not sure I would consider this a strong enough reason to townread a person, but okay.
Null/Questioning
- Probably one of the most volatile reads I have. I don't always see the reasoning behind their thoughts and I feel like they've voted with the flow of the town. However, they have been responsive and they are generating assessments to help further the gamestate. I had a hard time placing this as town or not.Saske - Not Confident, Lean Town
I can see where you are at; however, I kinda consider them more of a town leader versus going with the flow. Furthermore, I feel they are actively trying to gamesolve and are careful not to be too judgement, and they are always open to discussions.
- I don't like to read replacements like their predecessors. I was iffy onDave - Not Confident, Lean TownAlmost50but I felt they were genuine. I also feel the same thing forDave, but they haven't posted enough to sway me strongly.
Interesting...
- Similar to myMylo - NullDaveread but with a lot less content to judge off of.
Makes sense. Any thoughts on Beefster though? (I'm sure you provided them before...)
- They're borderline voteparking onMutant - Not Confident, Lean ScumIrcher, someone I strongly feel is town, and while I do like they're content through Page 10, I haven't seen much beyond that that strikes me as towny.
Also an interesting read....
Scum
- Literally postsLovebird - Slight Scumread"this is town" and "this is scum"without giving reasons and then disappears. Unhelpful, and I question how genuine their reads are.
I think this is how Lovebird plays in general, so I don't think this is alignment-indicative?
- Probably the least confident of the scumreads, they're the most forward players out of my scumreads. But I still don't get their insistence onIconeum - Slight ScumreadJanitoror their read progression.
Not sure if I agree with this read or where it is coming from... Are you sure this isn't just a case of "I disagree with their reads, so I think they are scum?" (It happens from time to time for all of us.)
- Mash myLalendra - Slight ScumreadLovebird and Myloread together while looking at how quickly built their wagon was created, and then weakened - and that makes me think this is a worthy potential lynch and scum.
Interesting...
:/ My townreads are stronger than my scumreads currently, which I don't like at all, but I'm working to change that.
Of course, several reads are liable to change soon.-
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Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand IdeaHe / Him / His
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Yeah, but you are hardIn post 897, Lovebird wrote:
I'm not hard to read. People done it easily before.In post 851, Ircher wrote:Why not? It is not necessarily (at least imo) that you have acted scummy so much as being hard to read.for meto read.-
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Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand Idea
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Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand IdeaHe / Him / His
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Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand IdeaHe / Him / His
- What A Grand Idea
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5) I have a readslist somewhere... Just ISO me cuz I'm too lazyIn post 917, Taly wrote:5) Mutant/Lalendra Comments: What's interesting about my reads there? What is your read on these two?
6) Lovebird Comment: Elaborated on this in 903, let me know if that still doesn't clear things up for you.
6) I still disagree; I think that is a playstyle thing for Lovebird, to give reads without explanations; no one else seems to be having issues with it.-
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Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand IdeaHe / Him / His
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1. In 923:
Yes, I do believe so; however, I must admit that this is a conjecture I made rather than something I verified. I'm pretty sure other people have meta experience with Lovebird and can verify if this a playstyle thing or not, thoughTaly wrote:So you're thinking this is more meta-based for Lovebird? I haven't seen enough to think otherwise, so I'd like to see some more explanation.by the fact that they have not jumped on Lovebird yet for their lack of explanations, my conjecture is likely true.
2. In 929:
.................................................................................What did you think about letting a cop check me N1 and lynching Janitor D1? (Although, it is not guaranteed we have a cop, but.........................................................)SIMYK wrote:It just all begins with an IRCHER lynch.
3. In 937:
I don't think this is a mechanically sound vote? Regardless, Iconeum isn't really pinging me, and I think the same can be said for the majority of the thread as of present.Lovebird wrote:VOTE: Iconeum
4. In 956:
Okay, in terms of 39, I agree after looking at it yet again that it is more likely a town than scum interaction. As far as ratios go:SIMYK wrote:39 is a STRONG town interaction with me, and EVEN if you do NOT agree with the reads in 14 it shows that he’s ACTIVELY sorting the game, saying he’s not SCUMHUNTING is disingenuous when he has 2 SCUMHUNTING posts and basically 2 SETUP related posts, the ratio here is VISIBLY about equal
11 is setup-related. 12 is setup-related. 14 hardly quantifies as scumhunting imo, esp. when the reads arevery likelyto be setup-related rather than based on actions those members have taken so far. (Like, I don't have definitive proof that those are reads based on the draft, but I don't think you can really say that those reads come from scumhunting.) 15 is definitely setup-related. I don't really consider 17 scumhuntingsinceMathdino said it is a policy-related vote versus a "I'm reading you scummy" vote. 24 is a meta read on Beefster trying to support the PL, so again, I don't really consider that scumhunting. 37 counts as scumhunting as does 39. So yes, I guess your assessment of the ratio of setup-related posts to scumhunting posts is fairly equal is pretty accurate;however, you also understand that certain kinds of posts stand out more (which this probably doesn't help my case, but...) and setup-related posts tend to do that.
SIMYK wrote:I would BELIEVE that the natural way to read someone is to see LATER, MORE SCUMHUNTING posts as MORE alignment indicative than EARLY posts discussing the setup, NOT viceversa. Keeping him at NULL after seeing GENUINE content from him does NOT sit well with meThis has to do in part with paranoia, and tbqh, for me, first impressions do matteras they tend to tint my future reading of someone regardless of if that's fair or not. As to the paranoia part: 1) Scum can "look" like they are legitly scumhunting, and while I am not necessarily accusing Mathdino of doing such here, it is important to note that I factor such possibility into my reads 2) I'm not going to go in-depth about that, but I try to factor possible biases into my reads.
Have you ever tried to completely stop paying attn to someone? It is way more difficult than you think. That said, I won't deny that what you say here is fairly accurate. And yes, to a certain degree, the acknowledgement is to keep people from complaining too much. But it is also an acknowledgement that I will have to trust someone else's read there more than my own, and I feel my read there has beenSIMYK wrote:I think it's VERY clear that this did NOT happen, town!IRCHER would be AWARE of this personality conflict in the SAME WAY. BUT ircher CONTINUES to talk about MATHDINO as we see later on! (・□・;)fairly consistentsomewhat consistent with that notion (considering I don't exactly trust anyone reads-wise enough at the moment; that should probably change).
Fair enough.SIMYK wrote:I CANNOT compute with this post, if you actually READ the post Math-sensei is referring to it is a RESPONSE to Ausuka - Lalendra even SAID in her signature that she's USUALLY lynchbait, and the post Math-sensei linked and the one Ausuka-chan scumread seem very SIMILAR in personality profile. So OBVIOUSLY math-sensei should be HESITANT to push this wagon, whether he's PARTNERED with Lalendra or NOT! (*•̀ᴗ•́*)
Yeah, I kinda did go a bit over the top there when making that post...SIMYK wrote:Do I even HAVE to explain why this is a SHITTAKE read ( ̄へ ̄)
5. In 974:Lovebird wrote:Not explainging things isn't my scum style. Everyone just always townreads big walls and explanations anyways.(This is one of the biases I factor in...)
6. In 1018:
(I don't disagree with this sentiment.)The Worst wrote:My main issue with it is (SIMYK you're a fucking wizard for this) it feels like he's coming in and lecturing @ the thread rather than jumping in and engaging with people
7. In 1024:
While I'm probably not in a position to judge accurately, are you sure that is a fair assessment? I mean, I have tbh that given what Ausuka said, I'm a bit surprised that she hasn't said more, but I still think that what she has done in general this game has aligned with her beliefs as to my alignment. Also, what about posting times? Perhaps Ausuka hasn't been in a position to post as much? (I haven't been paying attn to that so I cannot say; just something to consider).Mathdino wrote:why the **** haven't you been screaming at everyone that ircher is town when ircher has been by far the most likely lynch for the majority of the day
i was waiting for you to come into the thread and actually state a read and you did jack
8. In 1028:
I don't think anyone has came close to game-throwing... I mean, I guess we can count A50's self-vote and Beefster's claim, but I hardly take Ausuka's sentiment as game-throwing...Mathdino wrote:is half of the original playerlist just gamethrowing or what
9. In 1029:
In my experience, this has rarely happened in practice. (That is, people looking at town people's reads after they die.)The Worst wrote:If youre town and get vigged and have reads you were highly confident in yes we will look at them
10. In 1034:
I believe that your actions reflect what you state;Ausuka wrote:except I've literally talked about how I don't have as strong a read on Ircher as usual and I haven't really been seeing him as "by far the most likely lynch" at allhowever, 80% confidence still counts as pretty high imo, and I think that is in part what Mathdino is getting at.
11. In 1047:
Totally agree with this.SIMYK wrote:Meta is a PERFECTLY valid tool to use and I do NOT think Ausuka-chan is in the WRONG for relying on it (ノ^ヮ^)ノ*:・゚✧
It is VERY effective to use on players whom people MISREAD often, like how CREATURE used to be before his meta was WIDELY KNOWN!
12. In 1073:
I feel your earlier assessment did a more convincing job tbh.The Worst wrote:Low content
Low frequency
High scumminess
High in drafts
Delicious cocktail of scum PRness
Why are you so not focused on it?
13. In 1079:Lalendra wrote:...You literally posted an entire wall (much of which was "fair enough, null") and then two posts later everyone is either null or neutral (not sure I understand the need to separate those) except you (shocking) and one person whose "posts continue to not really be good". That's it?First of all, you do realize that the "notes" and the reads go hand-in-hand?
Second of all, did you try reading the second spoiler about how to read the reads list? You would know I separate Neutral and Null and while you may not agree with how I separate them, you should treat my neutral reads as more/less serious reads. (In other words, saying everyone is either null or neutral is a meaningless statement as the neutral reads aren't really a "no read" or even a "very weak read" thing; it just has to do with the level of confidence. Again, you don't have to agree with the system, but please try to acknowledge it.)
14. In 1080:
^.The Worst wrote:Are we lynching Lalen yet
15. In 1081:
I disagree significantly. Out of context, yes. Did you factor in Ausuka's meta experience before making this statement?Lalendra wrote:Ausuka's <post>568</post> is super waffly in terms of a read on Ircher. I've never seen someone flip-flop that much on one person in one post.
I guess it may seem like that in a way... I'm not really trying to be super aggressive about it there though, as you should see from the ensuing response to the post.Lalendra wrote:[Quotes 833] Weirdly defensive
Lalendra wrote: