Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Keyser Söze]

My fellow Americans, let’s...

[Keyser Söze]

Good start gentlemen!

[Keyser Söze]

Shoshin, put me out my misery: is this a reaction test?

[Keyser Söze]

Just trying to unpack Shoshin-skitter’s early reactions (or should I say OVERreaction): T/T, S/T, T/S
Probably too awkward for S/S.

Delighted to see us enter serious foreplay so soon though.

[Keyser Söze]

You’re serious aren’t you don’t think I’ve ever seen someone dive in so soon.

[Keyser Söze]

Ever done the same as scum? I.e scum reading hard a fellow scum team mate?

[Keyser Söze]

Moreover, what’s wrong with mixed wagons on page 1?

[Keyser Söze]

I was the backup replacement for NSGs last game
I wish I'd gotten in tbh, it might not have gone the same

The point is Shoshin was mislynched for being bad at town
The problem is scum her has the same kind of meltdown

Debating Mathdino and Shoshin scum f**k up here.

[Keyser Söze]

@Irrelephant - maybe I had flashbacks to a game where I (as scum) felt comfortable scum reading only my team mate right off the bat, early game, and my team mate didn’t know what to do (both throwing shade and giving me a defence via meta). I saw abit of this in Shoshin and mathdino. But the way things have unfolded... I feel like this is too reachy.

Soshin’s direct/serious route on page one has certainly caught my attention though. If she’s town it’s something that unfortunately both scum and town would nibble on... so I’ve decided to take a step back from that interaction.

[Keyser Söze]

I signed up for this game because of Irrelephant so I'm looking forward to that too. I hope he's town.

Oh you've played with Irrelephant?

I feel so popular.

Early reads are hard

I’m fine with Shoshin’s push out of RVS. I’m enjoying math’s rapping and will sort him later

@Keyser explain 45 for me?

@Nauci why keep a vote on me after rvs is over and before I’ve posted? Do you have any scumreads yet?

@stun why couldn’t scum Keyser make those posts? Doesn’t seem like it’d be hard

VOTE: Skitter
Just a feeling. y’all should sheep me

Do you think Skitter is the ‘scum’ who took the bait and nibbled on Shoshin’s early unconventional behaviour?

[Keyser Söze]

Zzz

This is great and all but let's all build a wagon on actual scum

VOTE: invisible

Fishing for reactions... or a late RVS entry? Just trying to place this vote.

[Keyser Söze]

Nevermind, just read your “active lurking” post...

[Keyser Söze]

so yes, i feel comfortable stating this townbloc. my townreads are much more accurate than my scum reads on d1, and can be trusted (over 95% success rate).

Keyser soze

shoshin

Goddamnit, you’ve only just gone and pocketed me

[Keyser Söze]

gemini feels like really bland boring scum

Wouldn’t call it “bland”/“boring” but I agree her tone/content has been very safe so far...
I.e asking people to explain their reads, explaining a potential town vs town misunderstanding/overreaction.

So Gemini is a possible scum-playing-a-quiet-safe-game.

Not enough meat to her ISO to vote there though, so waiting for her to open up abit more.

[Keyser Söze]

Invisibility, give me a few strong stances on the current ‘active’/louder players.



I feel your early attention to shoshin could have been easy scum-work (nibbling on Shos’ unconventional RVS behaviour)

[Keyser Söze]

Zzz

This is great and all but let's all build a wagon on actual scum

VOTE: invisible

Would love for these two to be actual scum mates



@Momrangel - you chose to gloss over the Shos-Skit-Mathdino early melodrama with “zzz”, which I found interesting. Did you feel that nothing alignment indicative was to be found there?

[Keyser Söze]

Yep, Gamma has to Hulk out (with only one game-solving related post so far).

[Keyser Söze]

Actually, yeah, Stun’s vote and unvote (coinciding with the growing suspicion on his own slot) is a good place to start.
Gonna re-read his/her posts.

[Keyser Söze]

Hmm... still liking Stun ladies and gents:

- I usually don't like early/easy town reads but Stun feels so certain and won over by my early posts. Why does scum-Stun clear me so early (and later supporting the strength of this town read, instead of stepping down from it after it being flagged). I feel it's too soon for an early-pocket-scum-strategy attempt.

- potentially legit defensiveness and paranoia shown by Stun in post 109, RE:Shoshin.

- Re-reading Shoshin's posts and revising his stance isn't scum-indicative.

- found something I'd place in the dislike category:

"i’m still getting settled into this game, sorry folks"
" you should at least wait one full day before pushing a case against me for contrast like that!"

Smells like PoE. I'm a sucker for PoE so less of that please.

- "i’m thinking scum is lurking beyond your aggressive act. the way you are playing would be awfully gutsy for scum"
I concur with this observation, RE: Shoshin.


Don't understand the unvote on Nauci, but Stun has promised catchup and vote later today.

[Keyser Söze]

Invisibility: one of the highest post counts but I still have no real conviction in the purity of his presidential campaign.

[Keyser Söze]

@Momrangel - in my head we’d exited RVS (as early as page 1 via Shoshin’s nose-dive and aggressive biting). Thus, I was intrigued by your vote (which I originally read as random, therefore, not up to speed) but then realised it was a ‘genuine’ vote (RE: invisible’s content).


Aye, yes, alot of opinions have stemmed from those early interactions, so I was expecting your view of them too.

[Keyser Söze]

I am very happy I am not being mass town read (so kinda liking Irrelephant11’s against-the-grind suspicion).


That replace out is bad... (sadly just feeds my suspicion of their slot, was hoping they would come back and win me over.)

[Keyser Söze]

i'm too tired to think

You’re falling lower and lower in my readslist Not buying the apathy/nonchalance as town sadly bro x

[Keyser Söze]

I’ve got a bottom four emerging... unlikely to vote either one yet (this feels too easy).

[Keyser Söze]

(Your playstyle/tone is making me worried that you are hiding behind it as scum.)

I.e if it’s a lynch between you and a Pro-town (scum) powerhouse, unfortunately I’m gonna (miss)lynch you

[Keyser Söze]

Invis is town, Keyser. You should take a look at some of his games to ease your paranoia.

I will trust your meta-clear for now. That makes my bottom four a bottom three. Let’s just hope he doesn’t flip scum...


...for your sake

[Keyser Söze]

So far I am convinced MathDino is attempting to sort players and expressing his reads.
He may need to adopt a more direct/articulate means to encourage people to vote with him though, but so far I am enjoying his lyrical verse and energy.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: skitter30
(Sorry babe, I’m confirm-bias’ng)

If Shoshin is town, this works well as skitter30 being the scum who couldn’t resist the bite.

Time to return to the thread and town clear yourself.
Time to resolve those page 1 associations.

[Keyser Söze]

Math's town, yes. Who are your bottom three?

I cannot disclose that information at the moment. It is top secret.

[Keyser Söze]

@northsidegal - tell me a story.

[Keyser Söze]

I want to call Bernie Sanders into my office for a chat. I have a slight concern on his scum-read progression / timing of votes.

[Keyser Söze]

Welcome TW, I personally didn’t like your entrance (exclusive of the fact that it was me who you voted for).

Unfortunately you replaced in on a slot I did not have romantic feelings for, so let’s see if we can find scum

together

(if not, sadly your contract will be terminated)

[Keyser Söze]

@Skitter30

Hard to quote your long posts on my mobile so I’m going to have to copy and paste:


You wrote:
“Idk what 'couldn't resist the bite' means. She was misreading math's post and I pointed that out because what she was saying didn't make sense to me if she actually understood math's RVS post.”

My answer:
Thanks for your reply. I am sorry but I have this uneasy feeling that you were attacking things (or being overly concerned) for surface level entanglements/contradictions. I have seen scum spend their time posting about such contradictions

instead

of having a more measured approach of meditating about the motivation of the player/could a town player have said this?/asking yourself ‘is this a rational stance to have if I were in their shoes?’

Shoshin’s entry and direction gave you that opportunity to ‘bite’.

Your only out here is if you may have been shortsighted. That is why I wore glasses when I approached the crash scene, that was page one

[Keyser Söze]

I feel like Stungun has turned things round for themselves and become a

cornerstone for enlightenment

.

Wellplayed (regardless of your alignment ) I am enjoying your method and delivery. We need an open voice

[Keyser Söze]

Yeah, don’t know how anyone can have momrangel in their townpile right now.

[Keyser Söze]

Gamma bro, you’ve got to show me you’re trying to sort the playerlist

You’re not in the top half of my reads at the moment. You’ve been too nice and too distant so far

[Keyser Söze]

Sensing some naturalness to Nauci’s posts. ‘Chatty’, indicating that they are comfortable/relaxed (?). She doesn’t force out hard stances (for the lack of “data”).
Nauci has a different take to the majority on many players (I think that’s a plus in her favour).

So far I feel like she’s doing her own thing right now (if a bit quiet). Not paranoid or suspicious of this slot yet, I.e no scum agenda found in her ISO.

[Keyser Söze]

Hi TW, if you’re still there could you express why Bernie Sanders is “very towny”. You kept name dropping him, but couldn’t quite gauge the why and how from your posts.

[Keyser Söze]

I get a very natural impression of how he's gathering and processing information, he just kinda flows. It's just a thought process thing. It's possible I'm underestimating him on the basis of hidden alt and so forth but he just really struck me as above board.

how are you viewing him atm?

Had a weird theory lingering in my head that he knew who was town.

[Keyser Söze]

I predict another replace out in the next 48 hours.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser if you put your sus on me aside for the moment who do you think is scum?

Can I answer this question when all the playerlist have posted.

Because right now, “think is scum” may not be the right label. ‘Not town reading’ is more fitting.

[Keyser Söze]

@Bernie Sanders - are you happy with the Worst’s reason for calling you “very town”?

[Keyser Söze]

@Shoshin - now’s the time to share that irrefutable meta evidence for town-invisibility.

momrangel actually came back with a bang.

[Keyser Söze]

Look forward to your full catchup (looking at players beside invisibility)

[Keyser Söze]

What do you think of mom’s choice to fixate only on invisibility so far?

[Keyser Söze]

What do you think of mom’s choice to fixate only on invisibility so far?

This feels like a weird turn from “momrangel came back with a bang” (the post implies a town Mom and a push on Shoshin) to now, where you’re kinda asking town Shoshin to scumread Mom?

Really doesn’t feel like genuine sorting.

VOTE: Keyser

I wanted to sit back and watch Shoshin and Momrangel to play out the inner conflict in my head I have over Invisibility.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser if you put your sus on me aside for the moment who do you think is scum?

Can I answer this question when all the playerlist have posted.

Because right now, “think is scum” may not be the right label. ‘Not town reading’ is more fitting.

It’s worth noting that all the playerlist has posted, so I’m not sure that’s a valid reason to delay posting something. Are you talking about until they post something substantial?

I didn’t mean it in that sense

Would you agree that some player’s have opened up more than others?

[Keyser Söze]

momrangel really needs to start talking about other players, not just Invisibility

Would you say she is a competent town/scum player?

[Keyser Söze]

where's your head at on her? Haven't read back but just shot thru your ISO and you seem to be dancing around her

Obviously I want to see more from her.
She shouldn't be in anybody's town pile.
She has made minimal posts, and the ones she has shared, she's fixated about Invisibility.

[Keyser Söze]

ok, who are you waiting for? Because I think everyone posted?

Sorry, I wasn't referring to them actually physically posting. I was talking about them opening up to make a substantial contribution/firm stance/offer an explained opinion. Anything which indicates they have the same win-con as me really

keyser, what's your opinion on invisibility? Do you find mom's read convincing?

Still not town reading, but Shoshin sounds convinced they are town via meta. Maybe their playstyle is getting in the way of me seeing what

scum-hunting/sorting

they are actively engaged in

[Keyser Söze]

His 31, 88, 89, 210, and 414 feel overly performative.

That's me enjoying playing the game brother. I could bust out in prose and rhyme, but seeing how bad mathdino is being treated I will continue being "overly performative".

he ignored my question in 91 while showing in his 144-147 that he’d read the whole game

I didn't think answering it would help me sort you, or you sort me, so I ignored it. Yes, I had read the whole game.
However, me ignoring the question actually upset up and effected your read on me so I will answer it...

Maybe you had flashbacks..? Did you or didn’t you?

Yes, I can confirm I experienced flashbacks. I'm actually glad you chose to chase up an answer for this question, because it sounds like it meant a lot to you (not just a question for the sake of a question). I hope the answer now helps you on your path brother.

But oh I thought tw was still voting him. It’s boring being the only vote for him rn

I apologise that my wagon is not a viable lynch

[Keyser Söze]

@the worst - please can you vouch for this, or at least put this into simple clear language (i.e a four bullet point points):

Mmm I feel like there's hidden subtext with me and TW here imo

We talked a bit previous to him surprise-replacing into this on like our game approaches and even a bit on our town/scumgames (like general tell kind of thing)

I didn't think he'd replace into this game but what I gave was more or less accurate and does fit IMO so my impression is he'd almost have to go against the grain to justify a scumread on me (I'd maybe even considering outing what I said but it'd be like super ultra memey now to say that like say why people scumreads me this game are towntells and stuff like that)

there is an element that if scum he kind of replaced into a bad spot and it'd maybe be more in his interests to try to get me onside or at very least not antagonise me (and it is possible to some extent it might even be working)
but again I'd more or less expect that read from town as well

of course that's assuming he knows my main which he really probably should but if not then now definitely

[Keyser Söze]

Have you ever vouched for someone that strongly, as scum before?

[Keyser Söze]

Btw I don't think duckling and mom are scum together

Why is that?

Can't remember that many (if any) associations between the two players..?

[Keyser Söze]

Are there any low-posters in the playerlist who are infamous lynchbait as town?

[Keyser Söze]

Can we go back to this...

initial ping was his treatment of Shoshin thru rvs/early game. also got the feeling he's avoiding town hunting and leaving avenues open for later. haven't really seen anything in there that screams town to me so far.

Is Shoshin town in this scenario?

"avoiding town hunting" - really? I felt I've expressed my good-feels for stungun0404, Mathdino, Shoshin (been turning to her for quick takes on people), Irrelephant11 (in a passive aggressive way, trying to win them over), potentally a mild lean on Nauci too (but that is fading since I'm not seeing any pro-active hardwork from her).

"leaving avenues open for later" - I have expressed nearly every suspicion in my head on every player, so I agree with this. But don't think it's a scummy thing to do.

"haven't really seen anything in there that screams town to me so far" - I agree. But I could say that about everyone atm. I don't think there is a town leader yet unfortunately. A quarter of the players still need to step up. This playerslist has potential for a classic.

[Keyser Söze]

Answer the question about Shoshin mate.

Was I the manipulative scum in the scenario, and Shoshin the defenceless, innocent townie?

Hoping to clarify what roles you think we played out there. Try to explain my scum agenda when taking to Shoshin

[Keyser Söze]

But I swear to fucking god if I vote someone else in LyLo then drop a coffee cup I am gonna lose my shit

[Keyser Söze]

@Shoshin

I'm varying degrees of town on Math, Invis, Key, Mom, and Irrelephant.

Why was mom in your town-pile at that stage? (post #269).

[Keyser Söze]

Yeah, maybe is a good time to review my reads.

(Still disappointed with a few players).

[Keyser Söze]

northsidegal

Null read.

Would not vote atm.
Would lynch them over a no lynch though
Contributed nothing to game, and still in RVS (one vote).
Associations paranoia: if Momrangal were to flip scum, this looks bad for northsidegal.
Needs commitment or

replacing

.

[Keyser Söze]

Momrangal

Null scum lean.

Would vote.
Would lynch.
The invisibility-tunnel looks bad (regardless if invisibility were to flip town or scum).
5 of her 6 posts have been about invisibility.
No pro-active sorting of the playerlist.
Associations paranoia: Yep, you guessed it, invisibility.
Momrangal needs to show me she is interested in solving the game.

[Keyser Söze]

Key, talk to me about Skitter.

Ok, Skitter next. Was sharing the easier reads first.

[Keyser Söze]

skitter30 ISO re-read.

I begin this re-read not trusting skitter (I believe she is poking her nose in the easy fights, neither do I believe the sincerity of some of her scum reads).
Let's find out if I am being too harsh here.

Here we go...

Ok, I can see why skitter is pulling up Shoshin on his 'remarkable' entrance (#20), hell, even I was dumbfounded by Shoshin's first few posts. But i've seen scum attack townies for being overly suspicious for NAI behaviour... so this is what I was initially picking up from skitter (#26). I feel like a townie would have just let it go but skitter presses on (#28), (#42). If you're not finding their behaviour scum alignment indicative, why are you getting so worked up about it? I feel scum find it easier to talk about misunderstandings (which can be completely NAI matters).

What I got from these interactions was a 'Shoshin-and-skitter' aren't scum partners. I also concluded skitter may have been the scum to jump on Shoshin's unconventional entrance.

Questions/challenges Momrangal's reads (#70). Engages Mom into a discussion about "lurking".

Is skitter here to just correct players?

Throws out easy questions: "why?"/"how" (#283).

Agrees with Nauci's point about Mathdino's playstyle making "it easier to obfuscate" - but has skitter acted on this suspicion directly with Mathdino yet?

"I don't really know if people can be classified as 'lurkers' when the game hasn't even been a thing for a full day yet." Again, Skitter here slightly nitpicking at Stun's observation instead of trying to understand the sentiment.

Skitter puts mom in the same breath as gamma (#293). Gamma's effort has frustrated me so far, but wouldn't put in the same category as the frustration/suspicion with mom. That's just my take though.

Skitter talking about her suspicion of Mathdino... but still no direct communication with Mathdino to resolve her suspicions...? (#325). OK... finally engages with Mathdino (or Mathdino confronts Skitter).

Shares final scumleans... "scumlean: math, duckling, mom, gamma". I don't know why they share the same level. Math sounds more like a null/null scum read, as skitter believes Mathdino will prove himself town in the long run, so best to keep Mathdino alive for now...


Sorry skitter. I don't believe you. Strangely, do you believe my suspicions/paranoia are real?
Unfortunately, you remain a

scum lean

.

[Keyser Söze]

Nauci is actually reminding me completely of our scum game together: "casual" as a way of seeming town without doing much work
VOTE: Nauci

Interesting.

"Casual"

is an excellent word. If you say she does this as scum, that is very concerning.

[Keyser Söze]

Isn't northsidegal supposed to be a

strong

player?

[Keyser Söze]

momrangel actually came back with a bang.

Did I now?

It was epic.

[Keyser Söze]

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...does this mean I've pocketed you Irrelephant11?

[Keyser Söze]

The Planeteers are growing quite fond of you too.

[Keyser Söze]

skitter30 > Nauci for me though atm.

Neither convinced of Nauci's villainous nature

or

wholesomeness right now.

[Keyser Söze]

The Planeteers are growing quite fond of you too.

Get out of here with this ish this is completely irrelephant

what does skitter > nauci mean

which one's the towny side

It means: Skitter lynch is better than Nauci lynch right now if I had to choose between the two.

Your meta-tell must be strong for Nauci. Impressive if you caught scum in a few posts.

[Keyser Söze]

I predict another replace out in the next 48 hours.

Called it.

And no, I do not share a scum pt with NSG

[Keyser Söze]

I wanted to sit back and watch Shoshin and Momrangel to play out the inner conflict in my head I have over Invisibility.

Are you usually this cage-y?

"Cage-y"? I was being as frank as I could be IMO. When I have 12 players at my disposal (where 75% are likely town) I'm going to get them to explore and explain their two contrasting stances to the full (in regard a player I was struggling to articulate and sort).

Unfortunately I didn't get the show I was expecting, even though I billed it to the max (admittedly using hyperbole). Put, they have talked out the invisibility-meta dilemma in the last couple pages. This would help my read on invisibility. Moreover it probably has made me re-look at my reads of both mom and Shoshin too.

@Shoshin - now’s the time to share that irrefutable meta evidence for town-invisibility.

momrangel actually came back with a bang.

Still not town reading, but Shoshin sounds convinced they are town via meta. Maybe their playstyle is getting in the way of me seeing what scum-hunting/sorting they are actively engaged in

So the reason why I asked about your invisibility read is because 414 almost sounds like ... you're narrating a dispute between shoshin and momrangal and that you're like ... waiting for them to decide what their reads are and I'm wondering if you, like, are trying to form your own read or if you're just going to be listening to one of {shoshin/mom}, and if you're planning on doing the latter, how you're going to decide which one is correct.

Again, there is nothing in the rule book against using two other players to resolve your inner conflict.
"Correct"? Nothing is correct right now. They just have to convince me, and I need to convince myself. Weird question.

[Keyser Söze]

For right now:
{}
{stun}
{shoshin, bernie}
{nsg, irrelephant, invsibility, nauci} -- null
{mom, gamma}
{math}
{duckling}
{}

duckling last now?
This late shift doesn't look good for you now...


Surely you must have me in your reads somewhere? You give gamma and nsg a read but not me?!

[Keyser Söze]

I'm a consensus scummy player this game and I remain off that list

x

[Keyser Söze]

It basically makes me feel like you're using the two of them as a proxy to figure it out.

Correct.

Is that scummy though?

[Keyser Söze]

Irrelephant11
Shoshin
stungun0404
Keyser Soze

Mathdino
Bernie

Nauci
the worst
northsidegal*
Invisibility

Gamma Emerald
skitter

Why is Gamma down there?

[Keyser Söze]

Skitter's scumread on Math is pretty fucking bad, and given her recent concern about "safe" reads, I'm thinking it's an attempt to appear "non-safe." I find it hard to believe that town Skitter lists Math as scummier than her null reads.

In my eyes, when Mathdino turned up her tune changed to:

[Keyser Söze]

Skitter's scumread on Math is pretty fucking bad, and given her recent concern about "safe" reads, I'm thinking it's an attempt to appear "non-safe." I find it hard to believe that town Skitter lists Math as scummier than her null reads.

In my eyes, when Mathdino turned up her tune changed to:

no it didn't, and that's a gross misrepresentation of my interaction with math yesterday

I obviously didn’t pick up the tonal shift.

I’ll let Mathdino explain his side.

[Keyser Söze]

Irrelephant11
Shoshin
stungun0404
Keyser Soze

Mathdino
Bernie

Nauci
the worst
northsidegal*
Invisibility

Gamma Emerald
skitter

Why is Gamma down there?

What have I done to deserve being higher? You haven't seemed to have that high of an opinion of me so far so this is off-color imo.

You have disappointed me in the following areas:
- attitude
- pro-active sorting contribution thus far
- laid back nonchalance to a challenging game
- timing of choosing when to offer an opinion

None of these points I would label in my personal ‘bottom scum read’ category.


But I can empathisize with mom’s later explanation of why SHE has you down there.

I also know it is within your ability to redeem yourself however, as you are a quality player. Hence my frustration.

[Keyser Söze]

Wow did not see the Irrelephant11-scum-angle at all. Is it I who has been pocketed??? That is a fresh take I will need convincing on.

[Keyser Söze]

@keyser, since I’m having trouble with this myself, I’d like you to build opposing cases for a town—bernie sanders and a scum—bernie sanders and see which alignment adds up more to you. can you help me out with this? i’m gonna look into him when i have the chance myself.

I feel your frustration. I think the enigmatic Bernie sanders is the most challenging slot of this playerlist to sort. I will look at him next as part of my reads summary.

[Keyser Söze]

haha instead of going to internet i took a really nice nap and now i have 12 pages to read

bleh i dont want to read the game right now
[excuse]

This is genius

[Keyser Söze]

Unlucky mate, tough replace in. You did your best.

[Keyser Söze]

Your strongest ‘town’ read wants to kill you bro

[Keyser Söze]

Skitter, do you finally scum read me? You’ve been talking to me like I am town

I’m perplexed how you could read my posts about you but still like me. So I’m no longer a townie with bad reads,

but scum who wants to misslynch you?

[Keyser Söze]

"As I have stated previously, I believe we need a national union, granted by an act of Parliament but bringing greater independence to our colonies. The French are an immediate threat and we are ill-prepared to face them. To put it bluntly, the colonies must join, or die."

Votecount 1.7

the worst(3)

~ Invisibility(28), skitter30(61), Bernie Sanders(81)

Nauci(3)

~ Mathdino(54), Shoshin(90), Irrelephant11(41)

skitter30(2)

~ Keyser Söze(85), Momrangal(27)

Momrangal(2)

~ northsidegal(5), the worst(68)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Nauci(18)


Not Voting (2): stungun0404(32), Gamma Emerald(34)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-02 17:10:00)

MOD REMINDERS

Searching for a replacement for northsidegal.

Votecount looks much healthier now.

If skitter is not viable / if I’m wrong about skitter, the worst lynch interests me more than the Nauci lynch. Still not a lot to Nauci’s ISO. I’d be putting faith into your meta-tells. Incredible feat from you guys if she flips red.

[Keyser Söze]

I never classified you as townie with bad reads, and my read has since degraded from 'minor townlean' to 'idk how to sort this guy right now because I see a lot of concerning things even though I liked his very early game'; this morning we even had a convo about me not sure how to sort you, and I haven't expressed a change in my read of you since then. idk why you're asking me if I 'finally scumread you', or like why you're framing my read of you as 'scum who wants to mislynch me' given that I never said anything of the sort.

I also haven't said recently that I like your posts.

Honestly I dont know where you're getting most of this post from because very little of it reflects my stance on you.

Can you answer the 'is English ur first language' question please?

(Surely you must think I’m scum though trying to pro-actively misslynch you or a townie with bad reasons to scumread you.. because you have refuted/argued every single point, and also noted I’ve grossly misrepresented you... and said my tone is fake..?) looks like you’re not being lynched D1 so I’ll have to re-look at my read of you D2

Yes, English is my first language.

[Keyser Söze]

if you want anything strikingly exciting from me you'll probably have to wait for later this week / weekend, understand the wagon given gamestate tho

You might want to bring this forward bro.

[Keyser Söze]

Town motivation.

[Keyser Söze]

I sense you’ll be put to L-1 soon...

Do you want to be in defence mode or scum hunting mode?

[Keyser Söze]

Who is Bernie Sanders?
What is Bernie Sanders?
Why is Bernie Sanders?

ISO re-read. Part 1.

gemini feels like really bland boring scum

It's a lead, will Bernie Sanders follow it up?

The shame is it's too soon for the best wagon we could actually do

This is one of those early

all-knowing

posts I found suspicious. Perhaps too much awareness for page 6?

VOTE: invisibility

dis that wishy washy shit clear up misunderstandings be all interested but no bite

Not sure on the meaning of this vote. What scum-alignment behaviour was invisibility guilty of?

Bernie Sanders' tone is unique. Very languid while still adding enough content to be not classified as active lurking.

VOTE: Mathdino

This may be absolutely crazy but mathdino here isn't at all like what I thought I'd see
now, my experience reading mathdino has been generally to copy his meta reads on other people or see how he'd townlead rather than look at his own play for tells and I think the only scumgame I remember was in one of the neighbour themed games (with lovebird and some others?)
but I still feel like he doesn't have any fire in him here so to speak, if that makes any sense
Granted it's also possible it may just be too early and I was going to just give benefit-of-doubt/space but I'm actually not finding most other leads that promising here
it's also possible the gimmick is hiding or preventing mathdino and throwing things off, but even in that case I'd still be happy to have it end anyways

Hmmm... don't upset the apple-cart, but vote the gimmick-clown... stated earlier "I'm more interested in {invis, TW, skitter, NSG, nauci and momr}", I would have expected a vote in that general pack. Has he done anything with his Mathdino-suspicion since this vote...?

Gamma emerald you've had to like osmosis absorb at least something of what's going on by now with how much you're reading

File this under potential partner-associations... i.e poking your teammate. (Very tin-foil hat I know, sorry. So you can ignore this observation.)

I get the feeling Bernie Sanders is holding back from being fully explicit and open with his reads/opinions. Why has he brought a feather to a knife fight?

Bernie Sanders has name-dropped a lot of names, but not followed through on them with interrogation/pressure.


Part 2 next.

[Keyser Söze]

Bernie Sanders re-read part 2

possibly this may imply 1 sided distancing

Already theorizing mass-player distancing theory within the VC...

Bernie, why do you think Nauci is town?

Actually I second guessed that though I could say why initially

it might just be approaching time to compromise to get something going but I do feel like there's potentially something to math here, and at very least warrants a stance out from most at minimum

Why can't Bernie Sanders answer this question about Nauci?

Let's play a group game

Divide game by as such
A{Mathdino Irrelephant11 skitter30 Shoshin Bernie Sanders the worst stungun0404 Keyser Soze}
B{Nauci Momrangal Invisibility northsidegal Gamma Emerald}
arbitrary but mostly by content, tbh

you have to shoot 1 in each group right now, Who?
In A I'd probably shoot TW despite what I've said on math as there is tbf an element of burden of proficiency wrt math/possible downisde (though he'd be my second); otoh this being mostly from gemini on the TW slot and tw cant really ever answer to anything there beyond getting to present himself when all up to speed
In B it's tricky given it's mostly good names but I'd still edge it out to invisibility given there's still enough sample size there IMO and he does just kinda feel fake with his game interest

Is town-Bernie Sanders famous for making himself busy with these theory-scenarios? I don't know what the aim is here?

I'd normally assume still skitter but I'd have some trouble following that now

I couldn't tell why you would be town/not scum reading skitter. There are many missing holes in your ISO to put together the groups of reads and players you are presenting.

I feel Bernie should be voting Irrelephant over Mathdino here (#592) and here (#625).

Maybe just me but TW comes off cagey in exchange w/ keysor page 18 19
as in acting more casual or relaxed than I feel like he really is if that makes any sense?

what's your conclusion in regard TW?

Votes TW, which I have no problem with... and there is undeniably enough late supporting suspicions to back up this vote.

It this a bus, or is it opportunism? Funnily enough, this late push on TW followed TW's famous

"Bernie Sanders remains probably my strongest townread

" line Makes me want to re-look at TW's read of you too.



@Bernie Sanders - I think you're gonna have to sit me down and talk through the player list with me. I am convinced you've been holding back strategically (scum motivation). Soft-footing around. You're still a

scum lean

.

[Keyser Söze]

Bernie could easily be scum

You what?

[Keyser Söze]

the worst enters the game and begins his obsession with telling us Bernie Sander's is town:

"are you town bernie?"

[Who don’t you want lynched today?]

"Bernie"

"Bernie Sanders struck me as very towny"

"Are people scumreading Bernie here?"

"I strongly suspect Mr. Sanders is town"

"Bernie Sanders remains probably my strongest townread"

Reeks of over-compensating. Stinks of over-kill. it's making me theorize some interesting associations...

[Keyser Söze]

welp no time like the present

Catch-up or replace out bro xxx

[Keyser Söze]

Ah cool.

As long as your next post isn’t “welp, too tired, off to bed”

[Keyser Söze]

"i’m still getting settled into this game, sorry folks"
" you should at least wait one full day before pushing a case against me for contrast like that!"

Smells like PoE. I'm a sucker for PoE so less of that please.

That should have been AtE not PoE

[Keyser Söze]

My personal meta analysis is terrible so all this is fascinating.

[Keyser Söze]

I hope Gamma and mom aren’t both scum

Was thinking of a world where my bottom scum reads are town.

[Keyser Söze]

i'm kinda gut-townreading gamma atm but i have literally no justification for it besides gut

WIFOM is fueling the hope I have that Gamma can turn this around for himself and lead us to salvation.

[Keyser Söze]

for now VOTE: irrelephant but i'll prob return to the duck if he doesn't contribute by eod.

Is Irrelephant scum in isolation for you? Or does it include any associations?

Moreover, how does this work with Irrelephant’s scum read of TW... (Irrelephant thought he and Shoshin had this game solved earlier...) so what is Nauci? A distraction, a bus, a counter wagon away from his scum teammate?

[Keyser Söze]

re:

consistently focusing on refuting a certain person’s

points who looks town in an attempt to spread doubt/confusion.

oh, i do that to everyone if i think they're wrong; my read on him isn't really relevant.

Am I scum spreading lies about you, missrepping you, to get you misslynched? YES or NO

Or am I simply a townie who is wrong about you?

[Keyser Söze]

i try not to focus on associatives pre-flip because i kinda get fucked over if i think about it too much without real data, and then tend to find evidence that fits the theory instead of the other way around.

he probably isn't scum with nauci, but i dislike that he lampshaded the associatve in

Hey at least now you can all probably see that me/Nauci isn’t s/s wooo

if nauci is scum with him she'd have to have literally started a bussing wagon which i find kinda unlikely.

irrelephant doesn't have a read on tw as far as i can tell?

this is the last time 'the worst' appears in his ISO by ctrl+f; he doesn't mention gemini or 'duck' anywhere at all.

I can't read the worst tell me more

shoshin just listed a scumpool of five (incidentally including tw) and he was like, ok, sure, that's cool, lets be buddies now; i don't think that has much significance wrt tw being a potential irrelephant partner. i'm actually more concerned about the buddying he was doing there-ish to shoshin than his tw read, especially since she was focusing more on other players in that pool at the time (ie me), so if tw was theoretically a partner he might not be too worried that town!her had FOS'd partner!tw there. basically i don't think shoshin's scumread of tw there is really significant or indicative of partners either way.

I agree that I can’t see scum-scum in Irrelephant11-Nauci. There are other viable lynches right now.

Unless we got really lucky here and both Nauci and TW are both scum and he’s sacrificing the mafia goon

Interesting read though - I may have misunderstood Irrelephants read of TW.

[Keyser Söze]

alright cool

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e

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e

a

d

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t

o

w

i

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p

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a

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n

we're buddies and we figured it out

Brother, what did you want us to Sheep you and Shoshin with?

Only Nauci=scum?

What had you ‘figured out’ so confidently?

[Keyser Söze]

been deliberating over this for some time, but

@mod: replace me. Also, can I choose to proxy to Keyser until I am replaced?

I really like the flavor of this game, so I’m ashamed I have to do this. If this was my only game, I’d be able to keep up with it, but it’s not. I have another account that I am also playing games on, and i got much going on irl. finding it extremely difficult and as sacrificing too much of my time to keep up with this thread and balance it with other games i’m in rn, but i will make a parting statement. I feel like there’s way too much thread spamming going on, whoever is town should really consider posting less content because there’s way too much unnecessary content being posted in the thread, and it can’t all be from scum. Further, the content is distracting from catching scum.

DEAR WHOEVER REPLACES ME: ONE MISSION; LOOK INTO WHO DIDN’T RESPOND TO MY QUESTIONS, PLEASE!


UNVOTE: Irrelephant



PS(parting statement): KEYSER IS TOWN NO MATTER WHAT; my strongest TR has never EVER been wrong regardless of my own alignment. It has resulted in me replacing into a game on N1 and correctly neighbouring a town player AFTER A D1 scum lynch, and taking full advantage of it to eventually win a game for town in LYLO, so you can trust this read with your life. There’s a definite chance shoshin is scum, but regarding keyser DON’T FALL FOR THE SHIT OTHERS ARE FEEDING YOU RE: HIS READ. SOMEBODY IS ACTIVELY TRYING TO PLANT SEEDS OF DOUBT HIM, AND IT’S WORKING TOO!



/legacy post

[Keyser Söze]

UNVOTE: skitter30

After much meditation, I am willing to accept I may be wrong here. My only interactions with skitter henceforth will be positive as I think I have spent too much time in confirmation bias with her this game.

[Keyser Söze]

No I felt like we’d reasonably narrowed the pool to five players that had a high chance of flipping red. I also felt confident that Shoshin is town and in our last game she was pretty good at discerning things

I think I misunderstood the whole ‘sheep me and Shoshin’ post then.

I don’t think you actually shared the same scum reads as Shoshin (bar your mutual dislike of Nauci, and as expressed by your latest reads list). However, even if you t/read Shoshin hard: that doesn’t mean her reads are going to be any more accurate. So I feel that ‘sheep Me and Shoshin’ invitation was disingenuous (or unnecessary).

[Keyser Söze]

don't give me that phoney AtE crap. if you think it's fake tell me why you think it's fake. the fact you're trying to call me out on a personality thing when you don't know me is g r o s s

but also most of the player list just feels totally resigned with my lunch. like if I was revealed as IC where would people even go?

You still sound like you’re in defence-mode, not scum-hunting mode

‘

The best defense is a good offense

’ - Kevin Spacey

[Keyser Söze]

Nauci is not feeling like town!Nauci.

What is "town!Nauci"?

[Keyser Söze]

and?

I want you to 'rock my world'.

Nauci is not feeling like town!Nauci.

What is "town!Nauci"?

= "Nauci when she's town"

What is "town!Nauci"?

[Keyser Söze]

and?

I want you to 'rock my world'.

Nauci is not feeling like town!Nauci.

What is "town!Nauci"?

= "Nauci when she's town"

What is "town!Nauci"?

What is "town!Nauci"?

[Keyser Söze]

Gamma, I really need to hear your thoughts now given the game state.

[Keyser Söze]

I commend your effort since replacing in Nauci. I hope we're on the same team here.

[Keyser Söze]

Oh, you're not a replace in My bad. Sentiment stands though. Must have lurked during early game.

[Keyser Söze]

Nauci did admittedly make me turn my head on you Irrelephant (few cracks in your shining armour now).

Could town-Nauci believe those things about you? I.e rational suspicion.

[Keyser Söze]

Wellplayed Gustavo, welcome brother.

[Keyser Söze]

and?

I want you to 'rock my world'.

Nauci is not feeling like town!Nauci.

What is "town!Nauci"?

= "Nauci when she's town"

What is "town!Nauci"?

town!Nauci = Nauci when she's town

Workin on part 1

I seriously don't understand. Did I misunderstand your post?

Are you saying Nauci is not playing up to her town meta?

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry, got lost in your spoiler most of your points seem fair. I think you’re saying I’m being opportunistic, strategically being a voyeur, manipulating wagons I’m not joining, speaking from the perspective of scum, keeping avenues open and gloating over other player’s misfortune..?

I may be guilty of all these allegations, but I can still be town. But I accept your scum read.



You wrote:
“Nauci is probably actually town because scum!Nauci wants me to like her and town!Nauci is actually this paranoid of me”

Is it that black and white for you now?

[Keyser Söze]

Looking at your VCA, TW has appeared on both rival wagons to his own now. Desperation? Saving his own skin? Or does he genunely want to lynch scum?


That’s why I want to get to the bottom of his scum read of Nauci.. but he’s not being very forthcoming.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser no offence bro but you're becoming an active annoyance to play with. I'll catch up when I catch up and respond to your posts when I can. Are you actually just like lockscumreading me or is there some personal reason you continually prod and throw shade at my slot?

Dead set I've solemnly sworn under the Order of the Brass Herald not to replace out of games ever but I do not blame people for being like "lol fuck these pages" at this point.

I'm struggling to form townreads without sheeping at this point which is killing motivation further. Sorry to ruin your day but I'm town and I'm not getting mislynched today. Stop positioning me for a mislynch and move on to something else.

I don't want a 1500 page essay. Simply two or three sentences to say why Nauci isn't town Nauci in your opinion, then I leave you.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser no offence bro but you're becoming an active annoyance to play with. I'll catch up when I catch up and respond to your posts when I can. Are you actually just like lockscumreading me or is there some personal reason you continually prod and throw shade at my slot?

Dead set I've solemnly sworn under the Order of the Brass Herald not to replace out of games ever but I do not blame people for being like "lol fuck these pages" at this point.

I'm struggling to form townreads without sheeping at this point which is killing motivation further. Sorry to ruin your day but I'm town and I'm not getting mislynched today. Stop positioning me for a mislynch and move on to something else.

Look, if you aren't going to explain what you think I'm like as town, then don't answer. If you're going to answer later, then say/do that.

But this cheeky circular posting is dumb and I'm posting because I do not want you to feel like we're satisfied with your non-answers.

What does town!Nauci mean?

I havent been on mafiascum for a while.

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry ninja'd me .

[Keyser Söze]

@Irrelephant:

I think that as any alignment, you should veer off from these syntactical lines of thinking. Phrasing/wording/slang/idioms/vocabulary is usually mostly reflective of someone's culture/education/personality. If you know that "this works well" means "corroborates the theory," you should analyze the thought behind it OR explain in detail why phrasing X would mean thought process Y vs "I personally would have used Y instead of X here." It would either improve your scum hunting as town, or reduce your empty shading opportunities as scum.

The "I want to watch them fight" comment seems like the same sentiment as your "hopefully it at least makes other players' ability to read us easier" from 707. I've always thought 1v1s were good for sorting those involved, as a 3rd party observer or participant.

The "this is an attempt to scum read me later" comments ping me BADLY. Those aren't reactions I ever would have had to those comments (if they were about me instead) unless I was scum with a "oh god they're onto me" kick. One post literally says he didn't even think about scumrelephant as a possibility and it was a blind spot, so I can only see fear/misdirection motivating "this reads as excitement," and I really don't draw a line from "you just know Nauci well" to "attempt to scumread [irrelephant] if nauci flips town"?

I think that I have done my best to be extremely pro-town thus far, but "doesn't suck up to Irrelephant" shouldn't be a point in my favor. If I were scum I'd be as afraid of townrelephant as townmathdino, and try to hide because after we pocketed flicker/teacher you couldn't possibly trust anyone buttering you up.

This is quite an incredible post.
Nauci has expertly explained my whole play like the way I meant it (and perfectly described the way Irrelephant has miss-read). How did you do that?

[Keyser Söze]

Need to apologise to TW, sorry mate. Was just getting frustrated.

[Keyser Söze]

Gustavo since replacing in...

[Keyser Söze]

Delighted to see a full house now!


Will re-read Gamma (the new lead wagon) - surprisingly my frustration with his slot never translated into a tangible scum read so I'm intrigued to see the arguments shared.

[Keyser Söze]

It's just a weird question coming from Keyser. He doesn't ask "Do you replicate this way of getting out of RVS as scum?" he specifically asks "Do you replicate this strategy as scum and actually lynch your own partners?"

I can't think of myself ever asking that as town at that point

Whereas scum afraid of being caught having "taken the bait" (something he gets weirdly focused on for long after everyone else has stopped talking about it) might lampshade the idea that if Shoshin had successfully caught scum that could somehow be scum-indicative for her, which doesn't make sense?

I'll let Nauci attempt to explain my play again, and how you've miss-read it.

You are short-sighted in viewing my behaviour mate. [

I don't see it as scum-Irrelephant miss-repping me though, just town-Irrelephant being very shortsighted

]

@Nauci - over to you.

[Keyser Söze]

Gamma Emerald ISO re-read:

Entitled 'A Tale of WIFOM'.
Took over 5 posts to get Gamma to share a simple observation/opinion/read, despite a page one break from RVS.
Told me he wants to "kick back" this game, so indirectly acknowledges his distant/laboured start. I wanted The Incredible Hulk, he was giving me comatose Bruce Banner.
Early game, seemed to be more interested in finding out who Bernie Sanders was an alt of instead of finding out who was scum
Gamma then challenges both Shoshin and Invisibility. Would class it as pro-active surface level scum hunting. He's looking for meaning, but it's easy work so far, so not gonna applaud.
Gamma talks a bit game theory with Soshin. Playing the nice/helpful guy so far... but later says skitter's "logic kinda seems weak". I prefer this more pointed play. Still not enough aggressive scum hunting for me though.
I called his early play "distant and nice", Gamma comes back and says: "I want to enjoy this as much as possible, getting into a big stink kinda defeats that goal". Gamma is fully aware (or says he is fully aware) of the non-aggressive tone he is demonstrating. Thus, he acknowledges he'll likely stick out among the loud/abrasive/tenacious characters in the playerlist.

Keyser if you put your sus on me aside for the moment who do you think is scum?

I kinda question the motive of this type of post: it reads like trying to subtly make someone drop the read they're being told to set aside

This suspicion involves me as the victim, so it resonated with me for a while, and added another shade to my suspicion of Bernie Sanders. I hope Gamma follows up this with more questions to BS.

What have I done to deserve being higher? You haven't seemed to have that high of an opinion of me so far so this is off-color imo.

Yes, feels like Gamma questioning the sincerity of my frustration/suspicion of his slot. He notices a CONTRADICTION. But it does demonstrate he is actually

very aware

of players who are not town reading him (I never called him outright 'scum', but I have been keeping him in my sight all game, nudging and poking him).

Decides NSG's rep out wasn't AI: "Yeah nsg flaking out is ehhh but given the ubiquitous drop-out I think it's passable". Wouldn't scum want to keep all replace out slots in the lynchable zone?

[INSERT FROM LATER]

one thing I can say is relevant is the idea that the replace outs were all scum.

Oh... Gamma has changed his tune.. please confirm Gamma



Still too much fixation over who he thinks BS is. Needs to be more serious.

Defends Momrangel over Bernie's accusation that her stances were not actually stances/sitting on hard-read people. Is Gamma developing a scum read on Bernie...?

I have multiple townreads but no scumreads

Not even a s/lean on Bernie?
[LATER]

Bernie Sanders kinda feels town

OK, I was way off. Definitely thought he cast some doubt in your head surely though...?

I haven't voted once

Gamma's "no scumreads" comment is backed up by the point that he hasn't voted anyone. However, if he's finding it hard to sort players why not use your vote? He surely isn't hard town reading everyone. Why not step on people's toes, provoke reactions, follow up your suspicions. You can't play this sit-on-fence periphery figure without expecting the wrath of other players questioning your behaviour (quite a WIFOM element in favour of him, as it would be so easy to lynch him for his backseat persona). The way he said "I haven't voted once" sounded like he was open and proud of that fact too

Gustavo is the ONE player I feel Gamma has interacted with directly (with emotion?). Gamma does look torn on Gustavo.

These are Gamma's null/scum leans:

Nauci tbd
Momrangal haven't gotten anything solid yet
Not_Mafia a bit scummish
the worst could be scum
Gustavo could be irrational town or scum
northsidegal blech

I wish I'd seen more direct interactions with these players. A town player should be showing more signs of frustration with so many unresolved players.

A lot more engagement how? If I need to be more engaged, what the fuck do you want from me? If others need to be more engaged with me that's placing the burden of removing the scumread on other people which isn't fair to me because regardless of what I do if no one else does what you want "oh no one is engaging with him, SCUM!!!!"

Oh dear lord.

*FEELS INTENSFIES*

has Gamma finally cracked?




Some conclusions soon.

@Gamma - what do you think my read of you should be right now, based on my above opinions of your play so far?

[Keyser Söze]

I'm completely open to you explaining yourself? And confused why you won't

No thanks.

Looking at the nature of your scum read it is an obvious case of confirmation-bias. Even the innocent/NAI posts I have made, you have attached insidious scum-motivation to them . I think only other town/or scum (who know I am town) can help you. Nauci's earlier post did this exceptionally well.

[Keyser Söze]

Don’t just “accept the scumread” (unless you’re scum)

Town can accept a scum-read on themselves Your scum-tell book is again short sighted
It's about sussing out if anything I say will actually help you sort me. Judging by the nature of your scum read... I doubt it.
Me defending myself ain't gonna help me find scum, but it would help to stop a potential misslynch.


If you think I am being anti-town or grossly damaging to the game then I may spend a few hours addressing everything you have wrote about me. Don't want anyone feeling like that.

Moreover,

if I'm L-1

, or if the majority scum read me, I promise I will pro-actively defend myself with great passion and immense conviction

[Keyser Söze]

This point kinda makes me scumread Keyser a bit

I think my point was fair.

I think you should have shown more... town-

impetus

,

initiative

,

urgency

...

Do you think the motivation I've seen you demonstrate this game co-relates with the ideal town player in my head: showing initiative when faced with a lack of strong reads?

Why couldn't I be a disappointed townie @Gamma? Don't know why you jumped to "scumread Keyser".

[Keyser Söze]

Key, what're your current reads?

Gonna explore scum-Bernie Sanders-Momrangal.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Bernie Sanders

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Bernie Sanders

Why not Mom?

I already scum lean read BS in isolation. I feel like I would live in regret if I never voted for BS. My bad feelings for Mom correspond with a web of associations with scum-BS.

[Keyser Söze]

You should vote who you think is scum mate. Not who you think i’m bussing. I may be wrong about BS.

I.e if I flip scum, then look at my associations.

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry, I misunderstood the labels on your readslist and what you meant by “bussing”. Must be a language thing.

I thought you vote your ‘scum’ reads.

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry, I misunderstood the labels on your readslist and what you meant by “bussing”. Must be a language thing.

I thought you vote your ‘scum’ reads.

No I think you’re literally reading the meaning of my words correctly, you’re just misunderstanding the intention of my vote
Also the longer post about associatives does imply that I scumread Bernie a little more than I did before

For some reason this post of yours feels towny, hmmm

I was being sarcastic (unless you’re t/reading my sarcasm).

[Keyser Söze]

You can’t see any Bernie-Mom associations?

(Don’t wanna delve too much into without a flip though)

[Keyser Söze]

@Gamma - what do you think my read of you should be right now, based on my above opinions of your play so far?

this is a really weird question

I wanted him to realise how much of a lynchbait-type persona he’d become in my eyes.

However, he ended up scum reading me for my observations of him... so not the desired effect

[Keyser Söze]

Please no quick hammers ladies and gents.

[Keyser Söze]

Will do a read through of momrangel and one last attempt at Gamma, who I’ve resisted voting despite the shade I’ve thrown his slot... I’m currently thinking he’s town who hasn’t played his optimum pro-town game and is being lynched for it. It’s WIFOM reasoning, and therefore a very weak town lean. I understand the votes though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Keyser Söze]

The easy lynch but maybe the right lynch for today (info wise).

[Keyser Söze]

Good, let’s use the dayphase extension then.
Probably 2-3 players who owe us content.

[Keyser Söze]

Bernie Sanders deserves a prod.

[Keyser Söze]

Gamma isn't very impressive but I don't actually see that much scum motivation in him and he's kinda being the opposite of survivalistic here

I thought the exact same thing... even his readslist amplifies this... his 3 scum reads are very unlikely to be lynched today. He would have been better off supporting one of the 'counter' wagons, or at least push a viable lynch.

[Keyser Söze]

Going here, to make it a firm two horse race.

VOTE: Momrangal

[Keyser Söze]

pretty sure those are the asterisks from prods in the first post

Thought it was a scum slip at first but yeah, the mod's prods.

[Keyser Söze]

Just realised mom posted they're VLA, so won't be here for EoD.

[Keyser Söze]

So this awkward but I just did some meta skim due diligence on gamma and he might just actually be scum >___>

Please share

[Keyser Söze]

talk to me more about why you think mom is scummy, I feel like she's been nearly scumsensus for awhile but I never understood the case after "she had a bad entrance"

Unfortunately PoE.

If you exclude the early fixation of Invisibility (think you could label him lynchbait), you would be hard pressed to give a definitive scum case.

Confirm bias has effected my read of them (based on their interactions with BS and Gamma).

Am I confident? Hell no.

[Keyser Söze]

That’s pretty damning if that behaviour is consistent with his scum meta.

[Keyser Söze]

Skimmed the last 4 pages, so catching up.

Just did a full ISO on Bernie and I don't see anything suspect beyond a lack of super dramatically towny posts (Keyser do you still think Bernie-Mom could be a thing when now that they're voting each other?).

I'm starting to feel like my reads have been terrible today. The fact they voted eachother was both amusing/interesting in my eyes, at the time it didn't dampen my scum-feels/teammate theory



[Side thought: Nauci is very eloquent. Brilliant at explaining/defending their stance. Are most people t/reading her (like me)?
What % chance do you have that Nauci is scum (and knows which players to defend?). @Nauci, are you hard to lynch as scum?]

you're not looking very deep at what 570 means. As far as I could tell Key was scumreading me. So for him to challenge a scumread on me was kinda strange. also as I post this I realize Keyser fencesitting on my slot might actually be a scum thing.
wrt 1109/1110 and 1140, I was thinking "alright, he is being stubborn, why don't I try to reason with him". When he didn't give any indication he wanted to fix anything about his read, I gave up and wrote him of as scum.

Ok, feeling abit better with Gamma having me down as scum/my behaviour suspicious. So don't see Gamma's read as OMGUS.

I don't have to justify anything, Gamma. Justification is what scum do.

No it's not? Justification means you're providing a reason for me to not think your logic is complete bullshit.

I think we can rule out Shos-Gamma scum theatre here...

As for "clear reads" I think my reads should be clear enough if you pay attention.

This actually feels

real

.

[Keyser Söze]

D2 to-do list

- I'm going to relook at the D1 read progression by [Mathdino, Shoshin, Not_Mafia, Gustavo, the worst, Irrelephant11, Bernie Sanders] on Gamma (I do not expect the whole scum team to be in here. But neither have I ruled out it being a full-town-wagon. I am hoping to sift out the

opportunistic scum

from the

frustrated townie

.)
- Then I'm relooking at Bernie Sanders-Momrangal post Gamma t/flip.
- relook at the nature of my Gustavo t/read (strong town connection with stungun0404, but I do not share the same trust factor with Gustavo).
- a final sanity check on Nauci (developed into one of my strongest town reads vs scum-Nauci who knew I was town when defending me).

[Keyser Söze]

Really hate when people say they are going to do stuff instead of actually doing it.

I re-read stungun's post last night:

I feel like there’s way too much thread spamming going on,

whoever is town should really consider posting less content because there’s way too much unnecessary content being posted in the thread

, and it can’t all be from scum. Further, the content is distracting from catching scum.

I think I didn't help enough as I should D1 looking at my postcount. Now I'm going to try keep things short, concise and clear with my observations/reads. There will unlikely be any unnecessary/NAI posts like this anymore. I'll look at your vote of me later D2, which is admittedly surprising (in relation to the strength of the reads you have expressed so far).

[Keyser Söze]

Mathdino's D1 read on Gamma

"So like is this a sorting post, what point is there in polling us"

Early suspicion of Gamma's motive.

"Speaking of which, what's your take on Gamma's deeds?"

Asking a fellow player for their view of Gamma.

"Skittz and NSG should know why I don't like Gem"

Citing Skittz and NSG to back up his (meta?) suspicion of Gamma.

"Completely agree, fam, a wagon could help with gamma"

Agrees with Bernie Sanders that a wagon on Gamma is now necessary (for meta/town tells reasons).

"The worst or Gamma Emerald, those are my two picks"

Mathdino clearly states the two wagons he is happy with. Votes Gamma (the first vote on Gamma...?).

"Until then I still think a Gamvote is right"

Promises a catchup but still stands by his Gamma vote.



[Sadly Mathdino wasn't online when Gamma started to open up his heart at EoD. I don't find anything suspicious with how Mathdino had suspicion on Gamma, and then followed through with a vote. I don't find it scummy either Mathdino asking for others people's thoughts on Gamma either. I would have preffered Mathdino to talk to Gamma one-on-one in real time. I wish this happens D2 when Mathdino confronts his scum reads. I feel his absence from the tail end of D1 stops me from thinking that this was a tactical silence on his part to assure the unopposed misslynch.]

[Keyser Söze]

I’m being left alive for the mislynch in lylo

Your slot is pretty safe right now (due to your previous slot's endeavours).
No need for you to look at yourself right now.
Consolidate your scum feels on everyone you have a ping for.

[Keyser Söze]

Shoshin's D1 read on Gamma

"I still don't get what confuses you about "direction" when the questions were about very specific things that Stun and Math have done."

Shoshin doesn't understand Gamma's confusion.

"So I'm thinking we need to sort out Gamma, NSG, Skitter, Nauci, and the worst"

Shoshin shares a list of players she wants to sort.

"easily lynchable players (e.g. Mom, Gamma, Invis)."

Acknowledges that Gamma is easy to lynch (lynchbait?) when talking about the players The Worst has been focusing on so far.

"Nah, if scum isn't Nauci/Skitter/the worst, it's probably between Gamma/NSG"

Shoshin adds Gamma's name into her backup scum team theory.

"Gamma, what're your reads?"

Gamma joins the party. Shoshin is eager for him to express his reads, who he himself confesses are not 'concrete'.

"Gamma, can you link some representative games of you as town/scum?"

Shoshin appears concerned about Gamma's behaviour.

"Why?"

Challenges Irrelephant11's town read of Gamma. Shoshin is obviously not as convinced. Followed with a vote on Gamma.

"If Gamma's scum, this vote probably clears NM as town"

This is cute: pre-flip VCA on NM's quick vote on Gamma. Feels like a real reaction.

"So many options of who to vote and he chooses Gamma? I dunno. If Gamma's town, it's pretty meaningless, but if he's scum, it's a pretty strong indication that NM's town. If he were scum, he could have hung around without placing a vote. He could have waited to quickhammer Gamma and try to fake a town-tell. But putting him at L-2 where he's unlikely to get much town cred is precisely the point where scum NM doesn't vote for scum."

Talks through with skitter her explanation of her pre-flip VCA. I feel like this is an authentic explanation and not scum-Shoshin overdramatizing.

"Mom, what's your current read on Gamma?"

Demands Mom's take on Gamma.

"EP, what's your position on Gamma and why?"

Same question to EP now: sounds like Shoshin is collating information/associations about her main suspect. Natural play.

"I don't mind pressuring others but I'd lynch Gamma before I ever lynch Mom because if Mom's scum I think she'd have voted town Gamma already."

Wow, quite a statement. Looks and feels plausible from the mindset Shoshin has expressed so far.

"Gamma's scum because he's not scumhunting and because everyone else is more town."

The first statement doesn't make Gamma scum, but the second statement explain's Shoshin's vote.

"I'm not policy lynching NM, and I think that push is terrible from both Gamma and Nauci."

Hmmm... associations/distancing wise, this makes me think NM and Shoshin aren't scum partners.

"I have lots of reasons to vote Gamma besides everyone else being more town"

Shoshin then shares a list of (valid) reasons for scum reading Gamma.

"I have lots of ideas about who Gamma's partners are but it's not something I feel like talking about at this moment."

Shoshin has already hinted about the possible combinations... so this comment sounds legit.

"You're not helping your case, Gamma."

I feel Shoshin was being harsh but fair with Gamma.

"I find it very difficult to believe that town Gamma suspects me because I haven't "thought that far ahead."

Unfortunately, everything Gamma spouted in retaliation strengthened Shoshin's scum read of Gamma (or at least appears to). It does appear like Shoshin thought she'd caught scum, and was willing to go all the way with this lynch to the very end.

"Gamma, why is Math town?"

Shoshin now scrutinizing Gamma's reads.

"Has Gamma claimed? He should probably do that."

Pro-town suggestion. Plus, acts as a push to end the last chapter to D1.

"I don't believe there's any thought process underlying that read. I think you threw it out without thinking why."

I can see why Shoshin could feel like this. Echoes her suspicion from her earlier question to Gamma.

"I'd like to see Gamma's flip."

The last nail in Gamma's coffin. Hammer time.




Shoshin has been transparent with every suspicion and read. Her suspicion and read of Gamma was no different. You could see the process, the method and the cogs turning thoughout her theory/reasoning of scum-Gamma. At the time I could not see Shoshin's cut-throat interrogation of Gamma as scum theatre. As Gamma has flipped town, neither do I feel this was scum-Shoshin annihilating a defenceless/unprepared/confused townie. I actually feel even more closer to Shoshin now, even though she bludgeoned Gamma to death.

[Keyser Söze]

Not_Mafia's D1 read on Gamma

Votes Gamma.

"Hamma Emerald"

Calls for everyone to hammer Gamma.

"The only people who really commit to PL’s on me are the noobs and the desperate, and Gamma ain’t no noob"

Not_Mafia backs up his suspicion/vote of Gamma implying Gamma is "desperate" scum.

Votes Gamma again for emphasis/for the fake hammer/for reactions (his vote is already on Gamma).



[Yes, the reasoning is quite lacking here. The motivation is explicit. He wanted Gamma dead. This is obviously a playstyle thing (which has been talked about endelessly D1). This behaviour may end up hurting town later. Even if Gamma had flipped scum, Not_Mafia's D1 behaviour would have still not helped me in sorting his slot. I hope Not_Mafia can add some sharp observations/opinions/reads to his playstyle D2.]

The only people who really commit to PL’s on me are the noobs and the desperate, and Gamma ain’t no noob

You missed out one alternative.

Concerned Townie

. We need to work together after all. If you're town I'd hate for you to be misslynched through PoE.

Someone do something scummy

Are you happy with how D1 went?
Do you believe nothing "scummy" was committed?

[Keyser Söze]

As i get ready for bed and to wake up in like 5 hrs..

Doing full catch up monday, no nk is something worth looking ar

I thought about this, but decided against it as it could expose a bulletproof townie, roleblocker, doctor, jailkeeper, hider or commuter too early. It wouldn’t even guarantee that the supposed target was town so not worth looking at D2 IMO.

[Keyser Söze]

I'm like 15 pages of splotchy reading behind but Nauci is not feeling like town!Nauci.

Hi TW, sorry to re-tread old ground, but are you seeing town!Nauci

now

?

[Keyser Söze]

Gustavo's D1 read on Gamma

"And that is a huge red flag.
With regards to gamma one could argue he’s avoiding this game. Last post here on Tuesday. Posted on site yesterday. Logged on today."

Gustavo sounds highly suspicious of Gamma not voting (I found it NAI). Gustavo suspects Gamma has been avoiding the game.

"Im confused. Your response doesn’t make sense to that post"

Gustavo sounds like another player confused about Gamma's posting.

"Since nobody wants to lynch sho, I’ll go here"

Gamma votes Gustavo (for being "scum who just doesn't give a shit if he's wrong"), Gustavo votes Gamma. Gustavo doesn't feel the need to go into detail the whys and hows. Maybe he'll add this later...

Gustavo unvotes Gamma because his strongest scum read (shoshin) votes Gamma. Hmmm, it could indicate how Gustavo would be naturally uncomfortable on Gamma's wagon.

"I’m fine with a gamma lynch tho"

Gustavo is still unashamedly happy with the Gamma lynch though.

"The fact he’s not voted all game and his first vote is on me and his reason basically implies he knows I’m town is a red flag for me
I can’t be scum who doesn’t give a shit if I’m wrong. I’m fairly obviously town. He’s not scum hunting imo."

Gustavo re-votes Gamma. This time Gustavo shares his fully detailed reason. I think this scum read and reason is consistent with the way I've seen Gustavo express his scum reads/suspicions. Everything is so black and white... I don't think Gustavo likes to express/explore if a particular player could have said the same thing as town. It's close-mindedness, but I can't just help see this as Gustavo being honest.

"I need to find the 3rd scum"

Gustavo has seemingly convinced himself of scum-shoshin and scum-Gamma. Yes he's being honest, but I'm actually seeing this as bad play regardless of alignment. Yes, Gustavo is sharing his scum reads and suspicions, but then he is demonstrating confirmation-bias.

"Btw gamma, The fact you went a majority of the day without voting anyone is a huge red flag. The few times I’ve seen that those people flipped scum. Even if I’m wrong and you are actually town, it’s shameful you’ve done that."

Seems a fair point if Gustavo is familiar with that behaviour.

"Me as scum would be stupid to push somebody everyone is town reading because of the negative attention I’d receive, and look. I’m receiving negative attention."

At least here, scum-Gustavo realises he can not win through sub-optimal play.

"I like a gamme lynch"

Gustavo again points to where he wants D1 to end.

"Let’s lynch Gamma and end this day already"

Scum-Gustavo is happy to power through the Gamma miss-lynch or town-Gustavo stuck in confirm-bias... I would side with the latter (WIFOM).

Re-quotes Not_Mafia's post to hammer Gamma. Scum-Gustavo has no shame! Is scum-Gustavo that confident of his game, and of town's willingness to put up with his forceful behaviour?

"Cause there is a perfectly viable scum wagon on gamma. People trying to push a counter are suspicious"

Here we go again. This looks like too much of a confident scum play here to be scum. I can't imagine this being scum-Gustavo powering through this miss-lynch, and scaremongering other players off potentially superior counter wagons. Like is scum-Gustavo that confident he won't be vigged/investigated/tracked? WIFOM is telling me town-Gustavo here.

"The gamma wagon literally just started. It’s too soon to say there was no traction."

Gustavo even opposing Skitter's wagon-mechanics theory of Gamma's wagon being a misslynch wagon. Gustavo is actively trampling down any oppoistion to the Gamma wagon. WIFOM says town, town, town.

"A gamma lynch points to somebody on Bernie being scum if gamma flips scum.
Let’s flip gamma already and find out. Your resistance to it makes you look bad if he flips scum."

Some classic pre-flip wagon analysis thrown in too.

[Gustavo may have actually sparked something here to revive my bad feels for Skitter.]

"Gamma isn’t town"

This is the cherry on top! Gamma then gets hammered. I won't be voting Gustavo today! If he's scum, well-played mate.

[Keyser Söze]

I'm like 15 pages of splotchy reading behind but Nauci is not feeling like town!Nauci.

Hi TW, sorry to re-tread old ground, but are you seeing town!Nauci

now

?

I see tryhard!Nauci
but no not towntelling

That is a great way of putting it. I am actually scared to confront this new way of seeing Nauci's whole contribution, as I've enjoyed her posting. I'll be looking at her last (could just be paranoia).

[Keyser Söze]

In summary, of the D1 reads of Gamma from the players on Gamma's miss-lynch wagon, I have liked them in this ranked order so far:

1 Shoshin
2 Gustavo
3 Mathdino
4 Not_Mafia

Note: my good feels for the Shoshin and Gustavo slots have been strengthened.

[I will try to complete the next three votes (the worst, Irrelephant11, Bernie Sanders) tonight.]

[Keyser Söze]

how are you actually reading Not_Mafia tho

I've already made some minimal notes of him so far.

He is neither a strong town read or a strong scum read (I don't think anyone should be reading him as such).

I believe he's exactly where he wants to be read.

I'll only begin to understand his motivations if he starts opening up.

He's not on the top of my list right now of players I want/need to sort, as I understood by everyone's D1 comments that this is

his thing

(playstyle-wise, which is infuriating, but it's his choice).

[Keyser Söze]

I see tryhard!Nauci
but no not towntelling

If you believe this, what have you done about it, since our last chat about Nauci on D1?

(I've been casting my eye over your ISO for a few minutes now...)

[Keyser Söze]

yikes there's prolly 2 scum on my wagon

I just feel like you should have voted Nauci here.

But that's me.

[Keyser Söze]

Here too...

yeah but I get the feeling she's posting to get townread not posting to nail scum

just watched my wagon fill itself up with scumfucks.

[Keyser Söze]

the worst's D1 read on Gamma

"I like Gamma better than Mom ATM from that bottom reads list. Both are not easy reads."

TW acknowledges Gamma was a hard slot to read early D1 (agreed), and that he likes him over Mom.

"kinda not an easy question to answer right now but maybe something like Mom > Gamma > Nauci right now, but my scumreads are currently the slots I also feel the most bland about...which has me realising I'll be deeply boring until I have more time"

Scum-Gamma is still in the mix.

"Keen for your Mom and Gamma reads"

TW asks Nauci for her read on Mom, Gamma. Would make sense if they're all in TW's bottom 3... but I haven't actually heard much about TW's own suspicion of Gamma...

Gamma votes TW...

"scum with 1+ of the other people he's shaded in 1294."

TW votes Gamma to L-1 and adds some pre-flip associations. Then unvotes promising a catch-up. The timing is bad because there was not much substancial support to this vote (the supporting detail comes next):

"also Gamma has watched scum!me and knows lurking is not scum indicative for me."

Ok, this adds some valid padding to support his suspicion.

"1218 WIFOMy as fuck but I actually kinda agree that Gamma's scumflip spews Gustavo as town."

Some more pre-flip association analysis for a Gamma scum-flip... it appears like TW is working this through in his head.

"1231 doesn't feel like town reacting to a case scum is making on them."

Sounds like a legit angle.

"hard read: Gamma and Gustavo are not the same alignment."

Not sure I understand this stance. Why not both town? I could understand doubting scum theatre between the two, but why does one of them need to be scum?

"........same"

TW agrees with Mathdino's "I still think a Gamvote is right" comment.

"besides honestly that's just the wrong track. Gamma is just not town here, and it's seriously gross the way you're pussyfooting around his lynch."

TW aggressively suspicious of Nauci's behaviour around the Gamma wagon. This does work into TW's apparent Nauci/Gamma scum reads.

"this makes me want to revote x("

TW close to revoting Gamma - TW disliking Gamma's accusation of OMGUS.

"> calls Gamma and Nauci partners
> Gamma and Nauci start a PL wagon at EOD to avert from Gamwagon
this is almost too good
almost"

This is cute. Does TW scum read Nauci more than Gamma here though?

"QFT"

Agrees with Not_Mafia's point about Gamma not being noob but being "desperate" (scum).

"more importantly it flips red"

Votes Gamma. Sounds confident here.

"I'm still really not feeling the notion that the Gamma wagon is on town. :/"

TW also disliking skitter's idea that this wagon looks like a wagon town.



[I personally didn't like the timing of TW's first vote on Gamma. But when TW started to add the supporting reasons/engaging with Gamma one-on-one, it did help to show that this scum read was more sincere. I'm still unsettled how TW intertwined the Gamma scum read alongside his passionate scum read of Nauci. Nauci was probably not a viable D1 lynch, so that goes in TW's favour, in explaining his decision to push harder with the Gamma lynch at EoD. I felt like TW should have demonstrated more ownership of the Nauci wagon on D2 too - Nauci has just become one of a couple possible "scumf**ks", but I see TW has now voted Nauci... This has kind of developed a TW-Nauci paranoia association case in my head now (two slots I wasn't even scum reading at the end of D1! And makes no sense with my current suspicion on Mom/Bernie Sanders). I think I may need to look at Nauci's side before jumping to conclusions, as TW's scum read of Nauci may be completely genuine/accurate in isolation.]

[Keyser Söze]

Irrelephant11's D1 read on Gamma

"Shoshin are you townreading gamma"

Irrelephant likes Shoshin, so obviously interested in getting their take on a player that interests him.

"Gamma Emerald - Done next to nothing towny all game. Scummy."

Not necessarily alignment indicative... but ok, I can accept that as a reason to scum read Gamma's behaviour.

"I mean I would love your thoughts on Keyser Soze, skitter30, mathdino, gamma emerald"

The correct players to ask someone's opinion on.

"I'm somewhat townreading Gamma at this stage fwiw"

Wow, quite an interesting statement to put out there... surely scum-Irrelephant keeps Gamma in his null/scum lean pile. A point in Irrelephant's favour: Irrelephant has been transparent about every read and suspicion so far, going on and off the same player, U-turns, providing scum-cases, this isn't a scum player opening up avenues on every player (as evident by the sheer amount of scum team theories Irrelephant has expressed!) this is town-Irrelephant actively sorting every player, and revising their reads/theories. I can see town-frustration when people are ignoring/not sheeping his scum cases too (but still redirects our attention to them) which is good, honest town-play. I actually like Irrelephant keep reminding everyone of their scum read/case on me. Sometimes I don't understand where his vote comes from in relation to his reads (such as his unexpected D1 Bernie vote)... but I just see this as part of his ongoing game-solving.

"525, 571, 717, 884, and the second-to-last sentence in 1128 are my townread on Gamma"

Irrelephant backing up his "townread" on Gamma... I personally feel "townread" is suprising.

"It’s not as strong as I thought it was now that I lay it out, hmm"

Good, honest admission.

"Null-reading Mathdino, Bernie Sanders, Gamma Emerald"

Irrelephant revises his read on Gamma.

"Also Gamma if you’re town now’s your chance to help, share as many thoughts as you can on as many people as you can before getting lynched please and thanns"

Actually wants Gamma to open up and share his thoughts.

"I’m guessing at least two if not all three scum are in {Gamma, Bernie, people voting for Gamma or Bernie}"

More evidence of Irrelephant's bold pre-flip VCA.

"K I’m fine with a Gamma lynch. He’s gotten worse under pressure and my reason for ever having a townread will either be proven or disproven before the lynch goes through. He definitely hasn’t been super helpful, and in his last dozen/two dozen posts he fees less like town trying to help make his own lynch worthwhile and more like scum trying to hide associatives"

I feel Gamma left it too late sadly to finally open up and play on the offensive. So I can see how Irrelephant could read Gamma's behaviour like this.

"My fav wagon in the running, and we need a lynch"

Irrelephant votes and puts Gamma to L-1.

"To clarify I don't disagree that you've shared some reads, Gamma, but a v pro-town thing you can do before getting lynched is to share a clear "here's how I'm reading everyone, use this info in case of my death" and your refusal to do so when asked is scummy."

Pro-town suggestion from Irrelephant. Could have just kept piling on the pressure, restricting Gamma to be defense-mode.

"agreed."

Irrelephant would like to see Gamma's flip. I kind of believe this, as it sounds like Gamma's flip would help him with his other reads too.

[Keyser Söze]

Bernie Sanders' D1 read on Gamma

"in the most general sense I'm more interested in {invis, TW, skitter, NSG, nauci and momr} than the rest here, though that's putting GE and math both completely aside for a bit (not that they aren't okay but)"

Gamma wasn't in Bernie Sanders' immediate FoS pile, but still within his scope.

"Gamma emerald you've had to like osmosis absorb at least something of what's going on by now with how much you're reading"

Bernie Sanders trying to draw out some thoughts from Gamma.

"scum gamma is starting to be possible given he still hasnt dropped the tells I expect"

Bernie Sanders suggesting scum-Gamma to the group (meta reasons).

"I'd probably look to invis or gamma if you have no idea where to start"

Suggests for TW (his scum read who he is voting for) to look at Invisiblity and Gamma.

"I have to go to bed but this wagon is pretty overdue by now"

Bernie Sanders votes Gamma. He feels it's the right time. Was Bernie now happy with TW? How about some thoughts on Nauci (lead wagon at the time...)

"Overall gamma's been playing to his scum meta so far (not really that interested in the gamestate or making conclusions from his questioning)"

Bernie Sanders does sound convinced of Gamma's scum meta.

Now gamma, him starting to engage and ask questions now after it being brought up so often and so hard and giving content after essentially having it beaten out of him and even then it's really not great. idk if he's really actually interested in his questions and pursuing his leads or kinda just talking and if his approach is really to find scum or just look interested and do what people expect. the activity thing, reads based on checking profiles is probably the best thing out of him altogether as far as scumhunting but even then at this point and lacking so much else I can see scum getting to that point mentally of thinking of how to look like scumhunting given somehow just not seeing any good points or whatever else and like "oh I could check the activity". funnily enough normally I'd really townread it, as a supplementary thing to substance reads it'd be going the mile beyond and a huge tell IMO, but as the primary just "thing you're doing" and justification for tw vote meh. but again there's the problem that it's actually potentially just true about TW wrt this game and again there have been some anti-team-tells which means I have to be wrong on one of them. finally I can't judge as to AI but its throwing me off how unfazed he seems to be about his wagon and not even really counterwagoning himself (though its possible momrs scum and idk maybe not comfortable justifying scumread on me?) but doing tw vote.

In context with wagons though gamma has been fairly easy and most people he'd be with would really be hanging him out to dry in a way that doesn't make sense. I actually think momrangal is probably the best vote here; if gamma is scum I think she's almost certainly counterwagoning but if gamma is town I think she's still in a good position to push on me for being on it with her off. I think skitter and nauci are probably town onto her and finally if gamma is town I could see her potentially being with the worst as an alternative (TW scumread mom and voted for pressure but seemed to lose interest)

VOTE: momrangal

My lynch priority is something like

momrangal > N_M > Gamma Emerald > TW > Errant > (over math and then over anyone else)

fact that I probably have to be wrong on either gamma or tw in spite of everything makes it kinda hard to justify going there (I think better EV move is lynch outside and really try to find probably source of misread and townread him ideally if I get the chance)

Sounds like Bernie Sanders has convinced himself that Gamma is not the way to go.

"Anyways I think this wagon is kinda bad and if I was around I'd have pushed way harder for momrangal which I think is superior lynch atm.
Gamma isn't very impressive but I don't actually see that much scum motivation in him and he's kinda being the opposite of survivalistic here"

Definite cold feet here.

"Again I think even if gamma is is scum it's essentially always with momrangal but right now momrangal-the worst looks more of a scum thing."

Scum-mom outweighs scum-Gamma here.

"Although in some ways moreso than gamma himself the wagon feels kind of lazy"

Lazy wagon = wagon on town surely?

"Though to some extent even if its gamma-mom I'd prefer to lynch mom scum first anyways because there I wouldn't have to deal with annoying association spec"

Bernie wants to lynch mom first... Bernie Sanders is gettin overworked with the associations now.

"So this awkward but I just did some meta skim due diligence on gamma and he might just actually be scum >___>"

Presents arguments for Scum-Gamma via meta. This intrigued me alot at the time.

"just finished with gamma scum in it
actually gamma I think you should claim"

Bernie has seen enough meta evidence. It's been a strange read development from Bernie on Gamma. Perhaps too overworded...?

"a bit strange given id expect at least one townread on someone you mesh with or think has good thoughts (here your townreads are all voting you lol)"

Bernie challenges Gamma on the validity of his town reads.

Bernie hammers Gamma. There was a lot of flip-flopping on the Gamma lynch by BS, I honestly don't know what to make of that. Would scum-Bernie not want to make such a dramatic scene at EoD over Gamma to ensure the misslynch? I need help here. Is it alignment indicative for BS?



[I want Bernie to talk about TW today.]

[Keyser Söze]

Ended D1 with a bottom three of Bernie Sanders-Momrangal-skitter30...

Now more paranoid over Bernie Sanders-the worst-Nauci...


THIS GAME

[Keyser Söze]

Votecount 2.3

the worst(3)

~ Nauci, Errantparabola, skitter30

momrangal (1)

~ Bernie Sanders

Shoshin (1)

~ Gustavo

Not_Mafia(1)

~ Irrelephant11

skitter30 (1)

~ shoshin

Nauci (1)

~ the worst

Not Voting (3): BlackVoid, Momrangal, Not_Mafia

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-15 20:30:00)

I should be in the

Not Voting

@brassherald.



Really I need more from Momrangal D2 now.

[Keyser Söze]

Mom is town tho

Do you think Mom is scum now who pocketed you?

[Keyser Söze]

I am enjoying the thought processes here from BlackVoid - solid, safe pace.

[Keyser Söze]

@the worst - do you mind updating me on your Momrangel read, thanks.

[Keyser Söze]

Mom is town tho

Do you think Mom is scum now who pocketed you?

IMO it would be more useful to ask questions w/o feeding potential answers in the same stroke, just a side note.

True in general case, but in this case, I was using TW’s very own words.

[Keyser Söze]

I don't think you need meta to see how scummy this is. His posts are fake, he's narrating instead of analyzing, his vote on Mom was convictionless, he didn't want to vote Gamma despite suspecting him, and his interpretations in 414 and 547 betray an informed perspective.

What makes Mom scummier?

I have analysed throughout this game.

I think your accusation that I am merely narrating is disappointing and disheartening.

I was frustrated with Gamma (because I have played with him before) but this never translated to a scum read. (I ultimately town read him).

Mom was part of a D1 scum team theory (I did not have a tangible hard scum case on her) therefore, my vote and case would have appeared weak/“convictionless”. She has since posted D2 so I will now look into her catch-up and thoughts.


I don’t think I should be today’s lynch Shoshin. I town read you, but I am very disappointed you think I am the best place to go right now. I personally think I have more town points than the Mom slot too Even Mom would admit to that @Momrangel

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser why aren’t you voting?

I was going to wait for Mom’s catch-up (complete my D2 todo list).

D2 analysis so far: From looking at Gamma’s wagon the 3 votes I did not like were TW’s, NM’s and Bernie’s. Mathdino’s was satisfactory.

I could have voted there, but happy with the current pressure on TW.
I will unlikely vote for NM today.
I believe BS will be a hard player to lynch...

[Keyser Söze]

Key, do you have any games as scum / town?

Yes, I’ve played around 15-20 games on Mafiascum.

[Keyser Söze]

I was frustrated with Gamma (because I have played with him before) but this never translated to a scum read. (I ultimately town read him).

Mom was part of a D1 scum team theory (I did not have a tangible hard scum case on her) therefore, my vote and case would have appeared weak/“convictionless”. She has since posted D2 so I will now look into her catch-up and thoughts.

I don’t think I should be today’s lynch Shoshin. I town read you, but I am very disappointed you think I am the best place to go right now. I personally think I have more town points than the Mom slot too Even Mom would admit to that @Momrangel

You townread Gamma? Why?

What was the Mom theory back on D1?

I don't understand your appeal to Mom. You think Mom would rather be lynched than see you lynched?

Please quote my D1 posts. Search for “town”/“lynch bait”/“disappointing”/“frustrating”/“real”.

I felt BS-mom’s interactions/progression on eachother were suspicious (posted D1).

I found it amusing you preferring my lynch over Mom’s.

[Keyser Söze]

@Shoshin - now’s the time to share that irrefutable meta evidence for town-invisibility.

momrangel actually came back with a bang.

I think you also misunderstood my tone: I was using hyperbole/exaggerating/heightened sarcasm to encourage the confrontation.


Did I actually believe your meta evidence on Invisibility was “irrefutable”? No.
Did I actually believe Mom had miraculously transformed into beacon of explosive truth? No.

I think I came out the exchange feeling best about you from the 3 players.

[Keyser Söze]

I sadly cannot help you right now as I am busy reading Momrangel's posts.

[Keyser Söze]

The Momrangel slot demands my complete attention and full focus.

This may be a pivotal moment in the game.

[Keyser Söze]

My win-con is at threat.

[Keyser Söze]

So... BlackVoid, Skitter, Gustavo, Nauci, Bernie, and Irrelephant are townish.

NM, Mom, and Errant are nullish.

Key, the worst, and ??? as scum.

wat.

Me and you are apparently part of a 3 man scum team bro

[Keyser Söze]

I will unlikely vote for NM today.

How

how are you actually reading Not_Mafia tho

I've already made some minimal notes of him so far.

He is neither a strong town read or a strong scum read (I don't think anyone should be reading him as such).

I believe he's exactly where he wants to be read.

I'll only begin to understand his motivations if he starts opening up.

He's not on the top of my list right now of players I want/need to sort, as I understood by everyone's D1 comments that this is

his thing

(playstyle-wise, which is infuriating, but it's his choice).

Show me why NotMafia is scum @Bernies Sanders.

Otherwise, no, I won’t be voting for Not_Mafia today.

Do you really think a vote from me is gonna push him out of his comfort zone? Are you seeing the same game as me?

[Keyser Söze]

@Not_Mafia - if I voted for you, would you be moved to present clear thoughts and reads on each player?

[Keyser Söze]

Key, why don't you want me reading your scum games?

I don’t wanna be rude, but that information is available for every player to see.

Click someone’s profile and view their topics.

[Keyser Söze]

@Not_Mafia - if I voted for you, would you be moved to present clear thoughts and reads on each player?

No

Thank you.

[Keyser Söze]

Key, why don't you want me reading your scum games?

I don’t wanna be rude, but that information is available for every player to see.

Click someone’s profile and view their topics.

I did that because you refused to help me find your games... the rude one is you who is straight-up refusing to help me out when I made a perfectly reasonable request... because sometimes it's not easy to find scum games... I also asked you whether you have a more recent game from Mini 1888. You haven't replied yet.

Do you think I’m actively hiding my town and scum games from you...?

What are you doing Shoshin? Are you being serious?

[Keyser Söze]

I've never seen a townie try to hide their meta the way Key is.

“Hide”

[Keyser Söze]

I will unlikely vote for NM today.

How

how are you actually reading Not_Mafia tho

I've already made some minimal notes of him so far.

He is neither a strong town read or a strong scum read (I don't think anyone should be reading him as such).

I believe he's exactly where he wants to be read.

I'll only begin to understand his motivations if he starts opening up.

He's not on the top of my list right now of players I want/need to sort, as I understood by everyone's D1 comments that this is

his thing

(playstyle-wise, which is infuriating, but it's his choice).

Show me why NotMafia is scum @Bernies Sanders.

Otherwise, no, I won’t be voting for Not_Mafia today.

Do you really think a vote from me is gonna push him out of his comfort zone? Are you seeing the same game as me?

@Bernie Sanders

You gonna answer? Is Not Mafia scum? Why should I vote for him right now?

[Keyser Söze]

Key's scum.

@Shoshin - you implying I have scum motivation to “hide” my meta is disgenious and comical. How do you expect me to react?

You are now on ignore RE: me - I will only discuss your scum reads on other players.

[Keyser Söze]

I don't get it because I'm not even pushing N_M.

Then why get upset me saying I have NM as null and unlikely to vote him today?

[Keyser Söze]

Oh nice, now Key's ignoring me.

I will only discuss your scum reads (expect me).

[Keyser Söze]

(Except*)

[Keyser Söze]

I don't get it because I'm not even pushing N_M.

Then why get upset me saying I have NM as null and unlikely to vote him today?

@Bernie Sanders

- Why object to my initial post and say “how?”

That really annoyed me. What’s your read of Not Mafia and his behaviour so far?

[Keyser Söze]

What're your reads, Key?

So far, I have a town core of Shoshin, Irrelephant and Gustavo.

In mafiascum speak, these are strong town leans and higher.

Paranoia on Nauci has dropped her lower, alongside Mathdino-slot (but both above null).

I am currently sorting the rest of the players now.


I had a D1 scumteam in my head (Skitter, BS, Mom) and a D2 scumteam developing (Nauci, BS, TW).

I’ve looked at Gammas wagon, IMO that didn’t help TW, BS or NM. I wouldn’t lynch them for it, but it will go against them when I look at them individually.

I haven’t trusted BS and Skitter most of the game.

I would say I’m more confident in my t/reads.

I need a flip in my scum team theories, because I’m unfortunately being over focused with pre-flip association theories.

Everything I’ve summarised here can be referenced to one of my posts (if you require my supporting thoughts).

[Keyser Söze]

I don't get it because I'm not even pushing N_M.

Then why get upset me saying I have NM as null and unlikely to vote him today?

@Bernie Sanders

- Why object to my initial post and say “how?”

That really annoyed me. What’s your read of Not Mafia and his behaviour so far?

@Bernie Sanders

You don’t get to add unnecessary extra pressure on my slot if you actually held the same read as me on NotMafia.
Answer the question.

What is NotMafia?