SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:24 pm

So, let me get this straight.

Shepard asks Pun to shoot him.

Pun obliges.

Vax also shoots Shepard.

Shepard somehow lives.

Is there a role that would allow Shepard to live when shot twice?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:25 pm

In post 2233, Commander Shepard wrote:
In post 2228, Shoshin wrote:Why the fuck would you ask someone to shoot you?
To prevent my mislynch.

Town mislynching me today wouldn’t do anything protown.

So vigging me would save a mislynch and confirm punreader as not group scum which would flag them as an SK

I don't believe this.

Have you ever done this as town before?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:27 pm

Did anyone protect Shepard?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:28 pm

What's Pun's role again? He's bulletproof and vig?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:30 pm

Was Shepard lower?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:32 pm

Why'd TBG die?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:33 pm

In post 2118, DeasVail wrote:Dunnstral: From play I strongly think that Dunn is town.

Why?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:34 pm

Have we killed any scum yet?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:34 pm

Fuck, this game is going badly.

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:37 pm

Shepard, any reason we should believe you over believing that you're scum who got caught lying about his role?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:40 pm

In post 2258, Vaxkiller wrote:There were 2 kills right? So how do you exaplin lighting rod again?

lol...

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:56 pm

In post 2260, Commander Shepard wrote:
In post 2257, Shoshin wrote:Shepard, any reason we should believe you over believing that you're scum who got caught lying about his role?
Because we have two choices

One of which is we mislynch me and then you have to.

Or you just do.

Especially since Dunnstral is in that damn hood and can back up the fact I asked to die
Then there was the whole I crumbed it

Not dying after crumbing you would die is a stupid scum move

Who here thinks I am stupid as scum?

I have a problem with the story you're telling.

You say you wanted to be shot, right?

But neither town nor scum willingly allow themselves to die.

So I suspect you asked to be shot knowing that you'd live.

And if you knew you'd live, then you're lying about wanting to die.

And if you're lying about, you're probably scum. Because why would town lie about that?

Scum would lie about it to create enough chaos to potentially avoid getting lynched (and to direct a mislynch).

As for whether you're stupid, I don't think creating chaos is a stupid scum strategy. And either way, talking about whether you're too stupid to do someting as scum is WIFOM because you're smart enough to manipulate that sort of thing (i.e. it's never stupid if you can use it as a reason to argue that you're town).

So, easy call here.

VOTE: Commander Shepard

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:58 pm

I think I made a case on Shepard yesterday via behaviors. It's probably sound, and his decisions in the night phase and today confirm that.

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:02 pm

Like, Shepard saying he wants to die but then not actually dying is pretty strong evidence that he had no intention of ever dying and was instead trying to fake some sort of non-survivalistic town-tell.

Shoshin · Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:05 pm

In post 2192, MariaR wrote:This is a game that I am in yes.
Don't know where I want my vote out of CS or Sho I liked Sho more than CS the day before but CS is much better today

How is CS better today?

He says he wanted to die but didn't.

You think that's townie?

Shoshin · Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:48 am

You should look at my recent post voting for Shepard.

Shoshin · Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:09 am

In post 2275, the worst wrote:I've read your recent posts

You think he wanted to die?

C'mon, the worst.

It's bullshit.

He knew he'd live.

He wanted to cause chaos to prevent his lynch.

Shoshin · Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:09 am

MWNN, why won't you vote Shepard? You believe him?

Shoshin · Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:25 am

the worst, one day when you actually know how I play as scum, you'll come back to this and be like, "wow I can't believe anyone ever thought Shoshin was scum here." You'll see.

Shoshin · Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:07 pm

What's your role DV?

Shoshin · Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:53 pm

FWhat happened is that a cat visited me. It nuzzled up to me and purred.

Was that DV? I dunno. If it was, it doesn't tell me what his role was.

Shoshin · Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:57 pm

Pun, why do you think Shepard is town?

Shoshin · Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:16 am

I'm not sure what else to say at this point in the game.

I still think Shepard's the best lynch today.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:14 am

In post 2318, Commander Shepard wrote:
In post 2316, Shoshin wrote:I'm not sure what else to say at this point in the game.

I still think Shepard's the best lynch today.
Shoshin

Let’s assume for a second we have played together.

Let’s assume for a second you don’t think I am terrible as scum.

It’s confirmed there are two cop claims a vig claim and an inno all going into night.

If you truly believe I am scum then why the fuck would I leave all of that open?

And on top of that shift all attention to myself the next day intentionally. I work best as scum when universally townread.

Now why would scum!me make what looks to be a dumb kill and before night ends beg to die?

I am not stupid. People voting me have 0 respect for my scum game. And right now that kill points to inexperienced or inactive scum.

What would you have done as scum after replacing your slot? What's your plan to get universally townread?

Shoshin · Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:43 am

I mean, I already knew who you were.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:43 am

Why'd you harp so much on me unvoting Penguin when I did?

Shoshin · Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:39 pm

I don't understand your logic.

You think I'm scum because I wanted to reevaluate based on new information?

Shoshin · Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:57 pm

In post 2330, Commander Shepard wrote:It’s more your reasoning for said reelaviation didn’t match up with your reasons for doing so.

You have a scum case that did NOT rely on meta.

Then when meta came in you blatantly ignored the other reasons. At the time it looked like an excuse to not vote PP, and so far nothing has countered that opinion so it stands.

The strongest points in my case were disproven by meta, so I thought it wise to reevaluate. But that doesn't mean I sudddenly ignored my non-meta reasons. It means those points alone weren't enough to lynch him.

As you know from the Newbie game, I stress probabilities and some behaviors increase probability more than others. The PP case was based on taking all the points together, but none of the points alone were enough to lynch him. You take away the strongest point, and the overall probability wasn't enough for me to keep pushing him without reevaluating.

I think you're making way more out of this than you should be and that concerns me. I also think you're desire to die doesn't come from a town mindset (it's similar to how you play as scum, and don't say that's not true because I can pull up examples). I agree that you're playing much more aggressive in some respects than you do as scum, in a way that feels more like your town play, but the non-survivalistic stuff plus the weird suspicion of me based on unvoting PP doesn't feel like something you'd do as town.

Shoshin · Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:15 pm

In post 2322, Commander Shepard wrote:
In post 2321, Shoshin wrote:
In post 2318, Commander Shepard wrote:
In post 2316, Shoshin wrote:I'm not sure what else to say at this point in the game.

I still think Shepard's the best lynch today.
Shoshin

Let’s assume for a second we have played together.

Let’s assume for a second you don’t think I am terrible as scum.

It’s confirmed there are two cop claims a vig claim and an inno all going into night.

If you truly believe I am scum then why the fuck would I leave all of that open?

And on top of that shift all attention to myself the next day intentionally. I work best as scum when universally townread.

Now why would scum!me make what looks to be a dumb kill and before night ends beg to die?

I am not stupid. People voting me have 0 respect for my scum game. And right now that kill points to inexperienced or inactive scum.
What would you have done as scum after replacing your slot? What's your plan to get universally townread?
I would have been very appealing towards people who have wrong reads for the right reasons. I would make some townie with atrocious reads the town leader. Take a look at Shadowrun. I took my slot which was a bit suspected due to a single misspeak (not slip mind you as it could have come from town) and buddied the only person alive who heard it and the doctor to always navigate around protects. In Gistou my advice single handedly slaughtered the other scum team in one night due to town kills and I was strongman vigged for never being able to be lynched because so townie. I was so Townie mastina (who is awesome and I only say this to make a point not to attack someone who isn’t here) made a mod mistake and gave someone an investigative result of my fake claim and I wasn’t suspected. They started attacking each other.

Scum is much easier when other townies do the mislynching for you. Then you just let the narrative write itself.

In this case I am trying to figure out this game. Find me someone I have been buddy buddy towards. You fucking can’t.

You manipulate your meta, though. So why should I trust you here? Especially with the way you're mindlessly tunneling me? I'd like to townread you because you're fun to play with but you're not making it easy.

Assume for a moment I'm town. Who are the scum? What do you make of all the cops and vigs?

Shoshin · Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:19 pm

Shepard, what's your read on Pun?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:28 am

In post 2346, Commander Shepard wrote:
In post 2342, Shoshin wrote:Shepard, what's your read on Pun?
Not group scum. Pun shot me and didn’t die.

Yeah, but neither did you... So why is that tell us anything about him?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:01 am

In post 2345, Commander Shepard wrote:Vax would be one. MariaR another. Probably Fire too. I don’t trust any of the claims and I think they are meant to draw out real ones. MariaR is way too protective of Vax when he is lying or scum lied on rankings.

Two cops two vigs and two protects just can’t be.

What has Vax lied about?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:07 am

I think we should mass claim.

Shoshin · Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:17 am

Why is he lying about vigging or the rankings? Explain.

This game needs an adrenaline injection. A mass claim could help with that.

Shoshin · Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:19 am

In post 2232, Vaxkiller wrote:HOly shit btw shoshin is town i think

Did you doubt it before this?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:22 am

Shepard, your best option at this point is to work with me because I'm actually here trying to figure this out.

For starters, I suggest you stop saying things are "obvious" when they're not to anyone but you. That's not helpful to me or anyone else.

The fact that you're alive doesn't mean Vax is lying because Pun also shot you. That means YOU are lying, or something happened last night that neither of us understand. Either way, there's no reason to believe Vax is lying.

Shoshin · Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:24 am

Shepard, I don't see any reason to believe the cops are actually town.

Shoshin · Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:29 am

Shepard, what's your role called?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:32 am

Chara, are you still in this game? What happened to your day off? Any update on your reads?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:35 am

@Shepard

Pun says she can read you well as both alignments. Putting aside the fact that you think she's right in this game, is this true? Is she one of the few who consistently knows how to catch you as scum? And if so, do you have any proof of this?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:45 am

Okay, so you do think Pun is capable of reading you? Hard to believe, because Pun's been very wrong about almost everything in this game so far.

Shoshin · Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:56 am

Read on Espeonage?

Shoshin · Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:08 pm

Welcome Guac. I'm looking forward to a fresh perspective on the game.

Shoshin · Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:37 pm

I was about to ask same thing. the worst or DV?

Shoshin · Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:27 am

In post 2400, guacamole wrote:That type of fuzziness can be expected from that player.

What do you mean?

Shoshin · Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:53 am

Hey guac, what do you make of the fact that Shepard says he wanted to die but didn't. Do you think he would willingly desire death in this game? Or do you think maybe he's lying about wanting to die because he knew he'd survive the kill attempts?

Shoshin · Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:19 pm

I'd pick Pun as SK over Vax.

Shoshin · Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:20 pm

the worst, why'd you rank Nico a 0?

Shoshin · Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:26 pm

But Nico? You should know better... she's basically silent on D1...

Shoshin · Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:37 pm

I think it's unacceptable to rank someone a 0 for doing something that you know they do as town.

As for Nico's playstyle, I'm opposed to policy lynching someone who is readable, and say what you will about Nico, she's readable after D1.

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:58 am

I don't think someone "has to be lying," the truth is we don't know what's going on in this game. Shepard has hints of town in his play that have me rethinking whether to lynch him, and I'm also struggling to see how Maria/Fire fits into all of this.

I'm not confident about anything here, and I think it's because we (myself included) got distracted by all the roles that we've lost sight of the stuff that matters. This is partly my fault, I usually don't fall into that trap, but I did this game.

I think town needs to revisist D1 and the rankings in light of our flips so far. I started looking at things but I'm going to focus on that a lot more tomorrow if still alive, and I'd appreciate it if other townies did the same. I think if we start going back to analyzing behaviors instead of lazily trying to solve this through the roles, then we have a much better chance of solving this game.

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:46 am

UNVOTE: Commander Shepard

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:48 am

Is anyone townreading the worst, Maria, or Dunn, and if so, why?

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:25 am

In post 2448, the worst wrote:also one of the major reasons MWNNslot is town

What do you mean? Why town?

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:29 am

In post 862, Dunnstral wrote:10: Dunnstral
10: Fire Assassin
10: Chara
9: Taly
8: Espeonage
7: Punreader
6: MariaR
6: Srceenplay
5: Nahdia
5: the worst
4: Pine
4: Deasvail
3: Shoshin
2: TehBrawlGuy
1: PenguinPower
0: NicoRobin
0: Lovebird
0: Vaxkiller

Reminder that I had a mission involving Fire Assassin/Vaxkiller's rankings

The idea of ranking someone based on role rather than behavior/alignment is really concerning to me. I don't understand how anyone is townreading Dunn after this.

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:29 am

In post 2451, Errantparabola wrote:ah... that page bottom...

Can we switch our posts? lol...

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:31 am

Vax, your role isn't dependent on rankings at all?

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:36 am

In post 2456, the worst wrote:
In post 2450, Shoshin wrote:
In post 2448, the worst wrote:also one of the major reasons MWNNslot is town
What do you mean? Why town?
MWNN is someone I can read. I'm not inclined to out my tells on him too hard given they're current and extremely useful (a lot of people fuck up reading him ) but if it comes to a situation where we need to deal with that slot urgently I'm willing to elaborate a bit.

basically the way he called to strip away the bullshit and lynch people were actually scumreading is substantially more likely to come from town!him.

Didn't he push Fire instead of taking a position on me or Shepard? What's towny about that?

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:38 am

In post 1165, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 1161, Espeonage wrote:Whoever won the bet got to choose to vig, protect, or vanillaise the other.
Can confirm I have the same role

I don't see how this role is worth screwing with rankings. From either of these players.

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:39 am

In post 2459, the worst wrote:not everyone plays town the way you play town, and MWNN is a fantastic example of that. also why is taking a stance on you or Shepard town indicative?

I didn't say he plays town like me. I actually townread him for most of this game, in case you didn't realize. But I don't follow your reasoning, and right now I'm trying to sort you, not him.

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:49 am

In post 2461, the worst wrote:sorry, I was in "sorting him" mode. you're not gonna be satisfied from this conversation tbh.

1. Should I not be scumreading you here?
2. Is taking a hard stance on you or Shepard town indicative? why/why not

1. You shouldn't be scumreading me because I'm town. But since I haven't given this game much time & effort yet, I understand why you might. If you're scumreading for reasons that don't have to do with my passivity/effort, that's a problem.

2. I don't think taking a stance on me or Shepard is AI by itself, but the reasoning underlying the stance might be. My point about MWNN has to do with the your reasoning, which isn't making much sense.

I'm starting to understand the difference between your town/scum play so I feel like discussing your reads/reasoning will help me get a better read on you now. I also know that you tend to townread people as scum in similar ways (paraphrasing, "this person is town because I actually know how to read them and this is definitely their town game" is something you've said as scum before).

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:53 am

Yeah, I'll be around.

I'm rereading the game right now so I have a lot of questions/topics to discuss.

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:48 am

In post 2468, DeasVail wrote:Combination of towntells in his play (imo), fire’s result and espe interactions

What're the tells? Specific posts?

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:29 am

Can you explain your role, Dunn?

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:35 am

In post 2470, DeasVail wrote:I’m on a camping/ski trip at the moment and my time is a bit limited, so I’ll get into more detail later, but I actually find the ranking based on role thing to be fairly town as town are more likely to get excited about a PR and have it excessively influence their play, while I feel scum would try harder to pretend to be scumhunting.

I think that's very player specific. Is it likely for Dunn? or Espe?

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:45 am

In post 2474, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 2472, Shoshin wrote:Can you explain your role, Dunn?
I believe I've already explained it

Then clarify. Your role PM says that you can vig, protect, or vanillaise Espe if Fire is ranked higher than Vax? Were you told whether Fire was ranked higher than Vax?

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:51 am

Okay.

What's the point of vanillaising Espe if he's already vanilla after the rankings?

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:16 pm

In post 2479, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 2477, Shoshin wrote:Okay.

What's the point of vanillaising Espe if he's already vanilla after the rankings?
I didn't vanillaise him

What's the point of even being able to?

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:18 pm

If all the scum are bulletproof, the vigs are strictly negative utility.

If all the scum are godfathers or if there's lawyers/framers, the cops are also negative utility.

We don't know what scum have, so I disagree that it doesn't make sense. We just don't know what scum have.

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:50 pm

I'd like to lynch Maria.

Shoshin · Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:08 pm

There's a difference between "could" and "probable."

My point is that setup analysis isn't reliable because we don't know what scum have.

If you put aside claims to focus on behaviors, Maria's scum.

Shoshin · Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:24 am

I've been suspicious of Maria since D1, so it ain't nothing new. I just sort of forgot until I reread and saw all the same problems.

Shoshin · Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:09 am

As far I can tell, the only players who suspect Maria are me, DV, and Shepard. Is that correct?

Shoshin · Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:13 am

Dunn, were you told Espe's exact role in your PM?

Shoshin · Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:46 am

I'm never lynching on a "mechanical reason" because we just don't know what role scum have.

DV's the one player who is actually playing this right but going back to behaviors.

Maria's a very good lynch on that front.

The fact that she's impossible to lynch because of all the players defending should make all of you even more wary of her.

Shoshin · Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:51 am

I thought Shepard suspected Maria? I guess not.

Shoshin · Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:31 am

In post 2578, guacamole wrote:Has it been discussed where the 2nd n2 death came from?

Both kills are from scum.

Shoshin · Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:21 pm

VOTE: Commander Shepard

Shoshin · Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:27 pm

What's the role?

Shoshin · Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:33 pm

In post 2626, Krazy wrote:I get to choose someone and the next day we have to vote together.

Who chooses the vote?

Shoshin · Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:08 am

Maybe I didn't die because of role, not sure. I'm a ranking immune townie, which I thought meant I couldn't die from rankings but apparently it might extend to all roles based on rankings.

Shoshin · Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:13 am

Scum usually leave cops alive when they can manipulate investigations, like godfather, lawyer, framer, redirector, sort of roles.

Shoshin · Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:35 am

Pun, I still don't get why you're so sure Shepard is town. What exactly has he done this game that makes you think he's town? Point to specific posts, and explain why they're town.

Shoshin · Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:32 am

In post 2677, Punreader wrote:
In post 2662, the worst wrote:
In post 2660, Krazy wrote:the worst do you have another option other than vax today?
Shosh > Vax > Fire off the top of my head

I want massclaim tho.
This is transparently an openly pun agenda. I know that the worst is not literally the worst town player, but this sort of blatant cheeky push is right up his pun meta alley.

What's openly scummy about the worst's agenda if he wants to lynch two people you believe are scum (me & Fire)?

Shoshin · Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:34 am

In post 2681, Punreader wrote:
In post 2680, Shoshin wrote:Pun, I still don't get why you're so sure Shepard is town. What exactly has he done this game that makes you think he's town? Point to specific posts, and explain why they're town.
How many times must I requote my posts on the matter?

You haven't pointed to any specific posts that make it more likely that Shepard is town.

If you have, please direct me to the posts where you did so.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:07 am

Esp, what's your read on Shepard and Pun?

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:07 am

In post 2684, DeasVail wrote:Hmm I think I still prefer Shepard as the lynch at this stage.

Why Shepard over Pun or Fire?

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:58 am

I crumbed on D1.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:01 am

Shepard, why ignore Maria's clear on Vax?

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:03 am

The point is that everyone could give me 0s and I wouldn't die. And that's provable.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:04 am

I decided not to prove because I didn't want to fuck with natural rankings.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:09 am

Shepard, you're not making any sense.

Any number of things could have happend that caused Vax's role to fail.

Why are you assuming none of those things are probable?

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:10 am

In post 2707, Commander Shepard wrote:After all scum have to have a way to defend against the investigatives. Ranking immune scum and a godfather playing scummy to bait an invest is a pretty good strat

Talk about improbable...

It's like you haven't even read the game...

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:47 pm

I think Pun is scum, not SK.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:04 pm

Why isn't Pun a scum vig?

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:12 pm

a) contrary to what you're saying, scum killing roles are a thing. And given the ranking mechanics, Pun's claim fits particularly well as scum.

b) Why not? If I were a scum killing role, I'd want to claim the role ASAP instead of hiding it (as most town vigs do).

c) Uh, more shots than they have? I don't follow. Scum lie about things, and they thrive on creating chaos. Why wouldn't they lie about that?

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:15 pm

In post 2732, Commander Shepard wrote:
In post 2731, Shoshin wrote:Why isn't Pun a scum vig?
Again because scum vigs a) just aren’t a thing
And b) they don’t claim Day one/two
And C) they don’t claim more shots than they have

All three are recipes for suicide if scum vig

They're clearly not "recipes for suicide" since he's still alive.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:46 pm

In post 2740, Commander Shepard wrote:Punreader is a GOOD player. I have complete faith they are not scum here

Pun's not playing well... your faith isn't reassuring...

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:11 pm

I'm town.

Vax is town.

I don't know about anyone else.

I'm lost this game.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:18 pm

Hey Dunn, what're your reads?

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:32 pm

What's a plausible team here?

Shepard, Pun, the worst, and guac?

Like, I just can't figure it.

Krazy's probably town mostly because Chara felt town.

DV's ????? he pocketed the shit out of me all game plus he's been super disengaged from the game, to a point that's inexcusable (yes I was disengaged at various points but I've done my best to force myself to engage even though I don't want to because I know it's important for town)

Dunn/Espe doesn't make any sense to me. Their claim doesn't make sense. I don't get why they fucked with their rankings just to win a pointless bet. Like, it just doesn't make sense to me. Both have also been sort of lurking all game, not really doing much.

Dunn feels town when he posts. Espe doesn't. But Fire investigated these guys innocent.

Fire's come under a lot of suspicion but I just see how he's scum here. He crumbs his role early, he's got one of those ranking-based roles that probably isn't faked, and he claimed early enough on D2 that it just doesn't make any sense if he's scum. He's a sloppy player, so I don't think the way he claimed is scummy, nor do I think the fact that he didn't submit a night action is scummy - though I'm curious, does Errant send out messages asking people to submit their action? Can anyone speak to that?

I dunno, that's where I'm at. No idea what to think. Nobody feels genuinely town except Vax.

Shepard has hints of town and hints of scum. The problem is he's really good as scum, and everyone here who thinks they can read him is just wrong about why they think he's town. Like, they bring up all these generalities that don't ever get into the substance of what he's doing. Pun can't even refer me to a specific post from Shepard or a specific town-tell. Neither can Guac. LIke, to me, that's fucking bullshit. If you can't point to a specific post from Shepard that makes him town, your read is wrong, period. Shepard is better than ever getting caught because of some general feeling you have that he's town when he's actually town.

I've been suspicious of Pun since D1. His early rankings didn't feel genuine at all to me, especially his early read on Vax. The way he's defending Shepard also feels fake as fuck, so fuck it, I'm calling them out as partners. That's my best guess at this piont.

I'd add Guac to the mix, since he's also defending Shepard for absurd reasons. Then I add the worst too since he's been defending Guac and he's been voting me over Shepard all game, so it just seems to fit better than any other explanation.

Scum having killing power makes sense in this game, given all the crazy roles. I can explain that if you want, but it's pretty simple - town has quite a bit of power, and specifically protection against vigs. I'm ranking immune so apparently the ranking vig can't kill me either. It makes sense that scum would have a weak killing role of the sort Pun has claimed. It also makes sense that scum would have bulletproof and other sorts of protection.

And that's me vomiting my thoughts, which are messy and stuff because I'm actually super lost in this game and don't have confidence about any of what I'm saying.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:57 pm

You don't think he'd obsess over mechanics as scum? C'mon, that's just wrong.

Shepard's tells aren't ever that simple or general.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:07 pm

It's crazy to me that the players who townread Shepard aren't even remotely paranoid that he could be scum.

I also don't get why Shepard isn't questioning these players... like, how can someone who always talks about how great he is as scum not question players who townread him this easily?

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:47 pm

In post 2758, guacamole wrote:I don't townread Shepard.

I'm confused.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:49 pm

I'm pretty sure as well. If not, this game is fucked.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:50 pm

If he's scum, I suggest shooting Pun.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:56 pm

Alright, this game is solved if Shepard is scum.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:01 pm

Who are your partners?

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:05 pm

Oh thanks for telling us. Those guys were pretty deep, didn't even realize they were in the game. Figures Errant would make himself scum along with a bunch of folks who don't show in the player list.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:19 pm

Vax needs to kill Pun or the worst.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:24 pm

Actually, let me reread before going for Pun or the worst. Not so sure about them. I need to revist what happened with PP vs Shepard and why we couldn't get Shepard lynched earlier.

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:29 pm

How is Pun still town in your book?

Shoshin · Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:37 pm

And how were you placed into this neighborhood?

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:06 am

VOTE: the worst

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:08 am

Vax is town.

Guac, DV, and Esp are less town than Vax but none are likely partners with both Shepard/Fire.

Guac's towny mostly becuase of Screen's play & MWNN's play, and because of the way he talked about Shepard.

DV's towny because of the way he interacted with Fire in the earlier parts of the game and because of the way he kept switching his votes around on Shepard in a way that just doesn't make much sense from the perspective of scum who knew Shepard was scum and Maria town.

Esp's towny because Fire nearly got him mislynched in a way that's unlikely to be the result of partner associations, and because of the way his role interacts with Dunn's and Fire's.

Pun's not mafia.

That leaves Krazy & the worst.

Chara felt townish at points, but Krazy is scummy as fuck in terms of how he interacted with Shepard (without reading the game, he assumed Shepard was town when entering the thread in a way that doesn't make much sense from town) and rankings suggest they're partners with both Shepard & Fire.

the worst has just been really underwhelming as a player, he played a part in the difficulty we had lynching Shepard, and there's plausible connections with both flipped scum.

I'd probably prefer a lynch on Krazy but I want the worst getting into this game at this point so it's time to vote him. If he keeps sort of doing nothing, we'll have to lynch him eventually.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:10 am

Actually, the way DV switched his votes around on Shepard could be scum. I'm sort of assuming that DV wouldn't have wanted to be that outwardly scummy as scum, but that's sort of a large assumption and I don't know what DV plays like as scum. So, DV's in the poe pile.

Guac & Esp are still likely town.

So it's between Krazy, the worst, and DV.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:30 am

In post 840, Fire Assassin wrote:ehBrawlGuy - 8
Taly - 2
Punreader - 3
MariaR - 9
DeasVail - 5
Espeonage - 0
Dunnstral - 4
Nahdia - 10
the worst - 7
Pine - 4
Shoshin - 6
Fire Assassin - 10
Lovebird - 1
Chara - 10
Srceenplay - 6
Vaxkiller - 0
PenguinPower - 4
NicoRobin - 0

Actually, this probably clears the worst since Fire had given enough reasons for him to rank the worst a 10 or 9 if they were partnered.

So it's probably just Krazy.

VOTE: Krazy

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:09 pm

I wasn't ever at risk of a hammer...

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:10 pm

Who do you think is scum, Krazy?

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:19 pm

In post 2718, Krazy wrote:Posting to show that I'm online and not quickhammering Shoshin.

Like, why even make this post if you're town?

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:43 pm

I just don't see much point in what you're doing, Pun.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:46 pm

the worst, what's your claim?

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:46 pm

I think it's time for a mass claim. I really don't see any reason to hold back anymore.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:52 pm

No, today. We already delayed too long.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:57 pm

In post 2835, the worst wrote:oh fuck i just realised something super super useful

Tell us.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:58 pm

Yesterday wasn't lylo, wtf. And I wasn't ever at L-2.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:56 pm

Pun, you're a lot worse at this game thank you think you are, especially when it comes to analyzing Shepard.

Look at Krazy's rankings. Nahdia's ranked high, a 10. Fire's ranked 4, low but not too low. the worst, me, DV, Vax, and Nico are ranked exactly the same as Nahdia/Fire ranked us. There seems to be a coordinated effort here to get Vax/Nico killed while leaving the worst, me and DV alive.

That's about as close as you're going to find to scum rankings.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:02 pm

Pun, apply your defense of the worst to me because it actually applies with greater force. If I were scum, Shepard would have been even less confident in victory than if the worst is scum. Like, c'mon. You're push on me is just really bad. I was the main person pushing Shepard over Penguin on D2, and forcefully so (look at the way I try to convince MWNN to lynch Shepard, for example). There's no reaosnable argument that I'm scum here, and suggesting otherwise isn't helpful.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:14 pm

Pun, you need to stop relying on what Shepard said after he was lynched. Like, it's absurd that you imagine yourself so capable of understanding Shepard when you thought he was town...

D2 should clear me:

In post 1518, Errantparabola wrote:
PenguinPower
(6):
TehBrawlGuy
, Punreader, DeasVail, Shoshin,
Vaxkiller
, ManWithNoName

Nahdia
(5):
MariaR
/Chara,
Dunnstral, PenguinPower, Taly

Dunnstral
(1):
Fire Assassin

Fire Assassin
(1): Espeonage

Not Voting
(2): Nahdia, the worst

In post 1820, Errantparabola wrote:
Commander Shepard
(5):
MariaR
/Chara,
Dunnstral, Taly
, Shoshin

PenguinPower
(5):
TehBrawlGuy
, Punreader, DeasVail,
Vaxkiller
,
Fire Assassin

Shoshin
(3):
PenguinPower
,
Commander Shepard
, the worst

Fire Assassin
(2): Espeonage, ManWithNoName

Look at what happens between 1518 and 1820. I switch my vote from Penguin to Shepard at a time when there's no reason to do so as scum. Penguin's lynch was all but assured at that point. But instead, I switch my vote onto Shepard and start forcefully lobbying for more votes on him. Like, if you understand the difference between town & scum, you'd understand that scum don't do that because scum need mislynches to win. And note, I didn't just vote him. I cased him and lobbied for more votes on him, at a time when I could have just settled for a lynch on Penguin.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:14 pm

Shepard wasn't trying to get himself lynched.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:20 pm

It's be a travesy if I'm lynched this game. I have towntelled in extraoardinary ways throughout the game if you actually read my posts.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:22 pm

Pun just can't believe I'm good enough to read Shepard, which is a bad reason to lynch me. I have a perfect record at reading Shepard as both town & scum, and that now includes this game.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:25 pm

Why the worst is a better lynch than me?

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:26 pm

I'm going to ignore Pun for the moment because I actually need to figure this out first. If none of the living townies want to town case me, I'll do it myself after I figure the scum out. But really, somoene (Vax?) should reread my play on D2 because there's no way it comes from scum.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:28 pm

I don't think the worst is scum.

Last scum is among Krazy, Guac, or DV. I need to figure out who it is, though.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:31 pm

Krazy, why are you suddenly convinced that DV is town?

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:42 pm

I strongly disagree with that, unless you're 100% convinced that you successfully roleblocked him (how do you know?) and that there's only 1 scum left... otherwise DV is still on the table. Reading through D1, there's an early interaction between DV and Fire that looks very bad for DV (specifically his shitty early townread on Fire, which didn't make sense to me back then and makes even less sense upon a reread).

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:45 pm

In post 154, ActionDan wrote:Ok read up.

I'm giving screenplay a permanent 0 for 105

Other people low on the totem pole are Chara/Deas/Brawl though for Chara/Deas there were different points where each talking about Chara being townread for spurious reasons redeemed them a tad. Also I think it's clear they aren't scum together.

Brawl for this:

In post 142, TehBrawlGuy wrote:
fire scums

@dunn and espeonage: do you just need him to be higher/lower than an average, or a certain mark? because we as a town could give him all 0s or all 10s to guarantee one of you gets the power
Thought process here is manufactured

Espe came off as stilted earlier but considering w.e this role mechanic that's going on between Dunnstral/Espe/Vax/FA might explain that somewhat aside from the fact that Espe's continued serious scum read on FA doesn't make sense to me.

This clears Espe. I doubt scum talk about their partner in the way AD talks about Espe here.

The 0 on Screen suggests that Screen's town, but it's not a lock.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:53 pm

I'm working my way through the game and just posting my thoughts as I do so that I don't forget them.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:54 pm

I haven't settled my read on anyone yet, that'll come when I finish rereading.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:25 pm

I'm holding out hope that someone else will town case me so that I don't have to, because it's obviously going to be a lot more convincing coming from someone else than me, but there's some massive towntells I dropped throughout the game, especially on D2 in my interactions with Penguin/Shepard and then the way I lobbied for a lynch on Shepard over Penguin. I suggest rereading (with context) because it's pretty clear I wouldn't have lobbied that way as scum.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:26 pm

Anyway, I'm going to be pretty obvious town before I ever allow myself to get lynched, like in Laybrinth, especially now that we have some flips. I really needed those flips for the motivation. Like, if I were scum, you'd be seeing a massive drop in my motivation right now. I'm sort of defeatist scum in that way.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:35 pm

With your role? Can you just claim?

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:35 pm

At this point, you should know I'm probably going to ignore any results you have either way.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:40 pm

In post 489, Srceenplay wrote:Ok. New scum team.
Espe
Pp
Maria.

Low points
DV
The Worst
Nico
Action

I have a meta question about Screen. Is he usually this focused on what's scummy? Like, most townies tend to have a balance of townreads along with scumreads, but Screen seems to only look for scummy things. That's actually a scum-tell for some players, but not sure if it's one for Screen.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:04 pm

In post 942, Shoshin wrote: 10 - myself
10 - Taly
10 - Chara
9 - the worst
8 - TBG
7 - Screen
6 - DV
6 - Dunn
5 - Pun
5 - Vax
4 - Nico
4 - Nahdia
3 - Espeonage
2 - Fire
1 - Pine
0 - Lovebird
0 - Penguin
0 - MariaR

Making my way through the game, just realized my rankings really should clear me.

I ranked Nico a 4, Vax a 5, Nahdia a 4, and Fire a 2. It's just not how scum would have played that. Scum coordinated at least to some extent on Nico/Vax as 0s or otherwise low, and there's no way scum rank two partners as low as I ranked Nahdia/Fire.

Something to think about.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:10 pm

In post 2898, the worst wrote:not pulling some fake guilty nonsense

I wonder if you were inspired by Fire's play, in which case you knew his alignment before his flip...

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:21 pm

DV, why'd you use your role on Nahdia?

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:32 pm

In post 1441, DeasVail wrote:
VOTE: PenguinPower

The Nahdia wagon is also cool, but with no Nahdia around I would feel a bit empty voting there right now.

Really bad vote that got the PP wagon going. Will come back to this. Also,

In post 1452, ManWithNoName wrote:Also, just going to go with Screen's reads and vote his lowest ranked person, for the moment.

VOTE: PenguinPower

I have no issues sharing his rankings if someone asks.

This is equally as bad.

I'm fairly confident there's scum in these votes.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:33 pm

In post 2902, the worst wrote:
In post 2900, Shoshin wrote:
In post 2898, the worst wrote:not pulling some fake guilty nonsense
I wonder if you were inspired by Fire's play, in which case you knew his alignment before his flip...
heh have you read much of my scum meta?

Nah, I've got the one town game with you and the other ongoing games. I've skimmed your posts when reading others but haven't really looked into your meta. You seem like one of those people who don't have a meaningful meta, better to just focus on what you do in each specific game.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:35 pm

Yeah, we need DV's claim. He said his role has two parts, both provable...

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:35 pm

We also need your claim, duckling.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:51 pm

In post 1789, ManWithNoName wrote:
In post 1787, Shoshin wrote:
In post 1666, Commander Shepard wrote:So why would one post destroy your entire scumread on PP? And if it did why focus exclusively on someone to the exclusion of all others if your case is that bad?
Look at these questions, MWNN. How are these not evidence that Sheperd is pre-inclined to read me as scum?
I just think there's a big difference between misrepresenting something and being mistaken. I don't think there is enough in that one post to make the leap to misrepresentation and lynch him based on it.

I don't like this.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:51 pm

In post 1775, DeasVail wrote:
In post 1773, Shoshin wrote:DV, what're your thoughts on Sheperd?
I’m on the road right now and have only skimmed their posts but they’re still on my potential scum pile.

I just want to lynch PP tbh

I also don't like this.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:51 pm

I'm ranking immune townie.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:53 pm

In post 1804, DeasVail wrote:Also Chara I’m interested in if you gained anything from asking for links to my recent games or was that just an empty question.

I’d also like to know why you’re suspicious of me being potentially open to lynches of PP, Nahdia-slot and Shoshin. I would think it pretty usual for someone to be potentially open to more than one lynch, and you have also expressed an openness to multiple lynch options, so it seems weird that you would scumread it.

This is also bad.

DV keeps saying he's open to lynching Nahdia's slot but everything he's doing when pushed on the slot suggests otherwise.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:54 pm

In post 1808, DeasVail wrote:
In post 1806, Shoshin wrote:DV, can you say a bit about why you want to lynch PP over Sheperd?
While I have reasons for scumreading PP as I’ve described in-thread, I don’t have anything specific on Shepard to scumread. I mildly townread Nahdia Day 1 for her spearheading the end day movement, but by the beginning of Day 2 I wasn’t feeling the townread so much anymore. But still not as suspicious for scum as PP imo. I do plan on looking at Shepard’s entrance more closely when I get more time, but from first impressions, I don’t get strong scum vibes. There may be a weak town tell based on how they’ve interacted with me today, but I want to see more before divulging what I’ve been looking out for.

This is bad. I basically called out exactly why Shepard was scum and he's referring to some vague towntell to justify PP.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:55 pm

In post 1816, the worst wrote:gut has spoken

VOTE: Shoshin

Wow, terrrible vote. Joins Shepard on me instead of making any decision between PP and Shepard.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:56 pm

In post 1823, the worst wrote:If it comes to a 1v1 between you and CShep my initial read had his slot down as town, and I actually think his case on you is reasonable. I'm not sure what you mean by saying that you don't think his reasons are adequate coming from him to vote you but if he's caught up and found you scummy that's kinda... how scumreads work.... :/

Terrible.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:57 pm

In post 1845, Shoshin wrote:
In post 1842, Taly wrote:Probably - I'll need to reread the past few pages for comprehension, but that's not convincing enough to say he's scum.
Why's he misinterpreting my posts if he's town?

There's more than enough to say he's scum. It's the misinterpretation plus the fact that Shepard likes playing with me as town so he wouldn't have been inclined to misinterpret, plus the fact that he's scum by poe, plus the fact that he's skirting around the issue of PP's alignment (first he says PP is scum because of my case, then he says PP is scum only if I'm scum?).

Shepard is really good as scum so you can't clear him because he sounds a bit town, you need to look at precisely what he's doing, who he's defending, who he's attacking, and how he's reading the game.

He entered the game defending PP by voting Fire. But then he says PP is probably scum because of my case, but instead of ever voting PP, he votes me because I unvoted PP. Then he says PP isn't scum unless I'm scum. His logic lacks any internal consistency. How is PP scum for behaviors until the point where I unvote, after which PP is scum only if I'm scum?

Anyway, this post should clear me. No way I lobby this hard for votes on Shepard. I'm forcefully trying to get every single undecided player to switch onto Shepard here. If I had been successful, Shepard gets lynched D2 over PP.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:59 pm

In post 1849, Shoshin wrote:Taly, you obviously don't understand how Shepard plays as scum. His response to being copped as scum would in almost all cases be "fuck yeah," because that's how he plays as scum.

More lobbying on my part. This doesn't happen if I'm scum.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:59 pm

In post 1852, ManWithNoName wrote:I would like to not be prodded, but also, I'm not looking how the focus went from working together to all of a sudden some people got spooked by a wagon.

VOTE: PenguinPower

I'll be back on Monday

As I start lobbying for Shepard votes, MWNN puts his vote back on PP. Okay, not good for MWNN.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:00 pm

In post 1861, Chara wrote:i'm so so tired and i am really not going to case anyone, but i think ManWithNoName is a great candidate for scum and that's based on his play, not Srceen's. i know this because i forgot he had replaced Srceen until i checked just now.
not interested in lynching Shoshin anymore. i've decided to listen to those few moments of "oh, this really looks honest" over the parts that bother me.

wish we had more time because there are a bunch of things i want to look at in light of that but can't.
Deas/Shepard/NoName/someone i overlooked?
could be Penguin but it feels easy. i don't want to have been fooled by him, though.

Very good post from Chara.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:01 pm

In post 2921, the worst wrote:going by our meta and experience with reading each other I'd be really surprised if MWNN was scum here.
that slot's use of its power has been pretty solid from what I've seen, too.

I don't put much stock in your reads, sorry. MWNN's play was atrocious on D2. How can you say he's town after that? What's the towntell you're relying on that outweighs his refusal to come anywhere close to lynching Shepard?

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:03 pm

In post 1880, Chara wrote:worst: granted, NoName scum has a lot to do with Penguin-town being a thing. so if i'm wrong there, this read doesn't matter. (and i could be wrong, i suck at this.)
it's a combination of small things. unlike Shoshin, there isn't anything from NoName where i can look at it and think 'hmm, that's towny.' his entrance pinged me as scum who was very concerned with the player he'd replaced, too.
also, the speed of the Penguin wagon. NoName's argument is that the wagon being around for a while means it's been difficult to form, and therefore scum are protecting him. if that were the case to NoName, i'd expect some sort of judgement on players like myself who are resisting it. instead it's a very general "his partners are trying for other wagons". that, and a player being unpopular but not getting immediately lynched doesn't make them scum.

unfortunately, Penguin-scum doesn't make NoName town, but it does mean that most of this case is irrelevant.

Another good post from Chara on MWNN and Penguin.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:05 pm

In post 1945, the worst wrote:VOTE: Shoshin

Why'd you vote here instead of Shepard? Like, wtf...

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:07 pm

VOTE: the worst

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:11 pm

Everyone is scummy. I dunno what to do.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:14 pm

Even Chara's 1861 and 1880 have hints of an informed perspective. Like, it's great reasoning on MWNN, but it also assumes Penguin's town in a way that townies don't typically start speculating about before a flip. And then what happens to Chara's suspicion of MWNN on D3? It's like she forgets about it.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:21 pm

In post 2320, the worst wrote:oh hold on Punreader is making sense. Pun can you determine what the fuck the n2 shenanigans were about and whether or not we can get any valuable information from it?

MWNN slot is town until further notice.

VOTE: Shoshin

This is so bad. Like, we've got potential wagons on Shepard, Fire, and me. And you go for me... doesn't make any sense.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:27 pm

Why'd you townread Shepard?

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:31 pm

Krazy, between the worst, Guac, and DV, who are the scum? I understand that you think DV didn't perform the nightkill, but that doesn't mean he's town. I want to know your read on these three, assuming the scum in in there.

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:43 pm

In post 2939, the worst wrote:you might also recall I basically lurked through the night action shenanigan bullshit and asked several times if someone could talk me through what the fuck to think.... that was a lonely time

Bullshit. I kept trying to talk you through it, you just didn't ever show up...

Shoshin · Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:11 pm

the worst, what're your reads? Feels like you're done nothing towny this game... and you're not even trying to figure it out... Why should I believe you're town?

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:48 am

In post 2612, the worst wrote:I'll claim whenever

Pleae claim already and stop delaying. You're doing the same thing you do as scum, so maybe try doing something different and just claim already.

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:52 am

In post 2949, guacamole wrote:Shoshin is cherry picking posts trying to find something that sticks. I see this as a scum move -- town take the totality and determine alignment from it, not assuming an alignment and finding something to fit.

I reread everything, from the first post to last. If anyone is considering the "totality" of this game it's me. This is a very bad post from guac.

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:53 am

Guac, why'd you connect the worst and Pun?

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:54 am

Like, after Shepard flipped scum, why would you connect two players who defended him?

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:59 am

the worst, I'm assuming you checked my flavor?

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:42 am

Guac, why'd you connect the worst and Pun?

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:51 am

VOTE: Guacomole

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:07 pm

Espe, did you have another part to your role?

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:10 pm

the worst, you're sounding exactly like another game where you were scum... do you realize that? I'm also confused by the fact that you didn't check my flavor. Like, wtf?

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:11 pm

In post 2990, Espeonage wrote:
In post 2988, Shoshin wrote:Espe, did you have another part to your role?
Nope.

That's weird.

Dunn did.

And the role sort of implies that you both had other aspects to your role (i.e. vanillaise).

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:12 pm

I'm more confused by Guac's choice to connect the worst and Pun, though. I'm trying to understand how a townie who just saw Shepard flip scum chooses that connect.

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:13 pm

In post 2996, Vaxkiller wrote:im like half caught up, so if anyone wants to fill me totally in

Meh, not much has happened. the worst claimed flavor cop. And that's where we are. I need help figuring out who the scum are. Any thoughts on the matter?

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:16 pm

Dunn was also a neighbor, so presumably vanillaise have done something, yes.

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:29 pm

the worst, why didn't you use your role on me?

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:13 pm

the worst, you claimed in full to Pun, including how you used your role and the results?

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:14 pm

Then you claim now.

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:16 pm

Yeah, I want DV & Krazy's claim too. But everything you're doing today feels exactly like your scum games... so it's time for you to start towning instead of trying to figure out who the scum are...

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:20 pm

Yes, it's exactly what I said.

Getting mislynched because you're trying to solo solve a game when nobody else trusts you isn't helping town win.

the worst is scummy as fuck... and now he's doing the exact same shit he does when he's scum... and somehow he wants us to let him keep doing it? Nah, he fuck that. He needs to claim.

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:22 pm

Why didn't you use your role on me?

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:24 pm

VOTE: the worst

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:24 pm

In post 3043, Vaxkiller wrote:I dunno, the worsts attitude is likely town here.

That's what he wants you to think. He's playing exactly like he plays in his scum games.

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:27 pm

the worst, you know exactly what I'm referring to. Don't play dumb.

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:49 pm

the worst, claim your role & results. Krazy, you're claiming after him. Then DV.

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:51 pm

Why you're playing the way you're playing? To argue that it's so nonsensical that you'd never do it as scum. Like, c'mon. I don't know why you're playing the way you're playing, but I do know it's not towny. And in context, where you spent all of D2, D3, and D4 defending scum while pushing a mislynch, you need to be playing towny here, not doing nonsensical bullshit.

If anything, it reminds me of the way Math plays scum. He knows he's under pressure, so he starts creating chaos hoping it'll help him survive longer. For all I know, that's what you're doing too.

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:53 pm

If the bullshit isn't related to your role, then why are you stalling the claim?

Shoshin · Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:54 pm

Krazy is claiming in full after you, or he's getting lynched.