micro 816-II: pokemon go (open game) (gambe over)

[northsidegal]

ego

[northsidegal]

oh, i feel like this'll be a hard playerlist to read.

[northsidegal]

helloo everyone

[northsidegal]

helloo everyone

Ears burning?

just reading through right now, feel like reading everything before talking rather than doing some kind of catch-up series of posts

[northsidegal]

rc, thoughts on stungun here compared to him being scum in transformers mafia?

[northsidegal]

Stun's town.

that's kind of what i was leaning towards as well, from a bit of what i've read it seems like he tries to be a bit more lamist in his scum games than what i'm seeing here

[northsidegal]

i want to know why people are townreading kokichi. from what i've read so far i think he's probably my strongest scumread (relatively speaking) - his play kind of reminds me of mini normal 2005.

[northsidegal]

i want to know why people are townreading kokichi. from what i've read so far i think he's probably my strongest scumread (relatively speaking) - his play kind of reminds me of mini normal 2005.

Can you elaborate on this?

sure, although give me a second to keep reading - hopefully either i'll have changed my mind or i'll have something a bit more concrete to point to.

[northsidegal]

yeah, i'm fine with kokichi being scum. he's doing the thing where he just pops in and responds to or comments on a few posts and then leaves but doesn't actually say anything reads-related. the only reads related things in his iso are the easiest possible points to make, the "if creature doesn't obvtown we lynch him" and the one with regards to me where the lurking is starting to concern him.

i suppose that this post could count:

Keep it up creature

Also, not sure who I think is scum yet. If I had to choose maybe stungun

but this really doesn't seem all that substantial.

especially in a game format like this where you always have someone to talk to (except northsidestory... ), i think kokichi as town would have more to say or would have something he would be pushing at this point. there are plenty of games you can look at for comparison on this to check what i'm saying.

VOTE: kokichi

[northsidegal]

other assorted thoughts i had reading through:

One game meta I guess? You feel different, less confident, using words like probably where they were absent in the other game, your one confident read is on me who you shouldn't really confidently townread, you just feel not the same.

Why are you so sure profii would be the partner? What's with the excessive focus on Aronis? Why should you have been locktown to Stun?

this is a point i definitely agree on for shoshin - when i was modding mini normal 2012 people being overconfident in their reads (to town's detriment) was something i was constantly noticing and shoshin was one of those people. i'm not sure if it's AI or not on comparison because i haven't read shoshin's one scumgame (mini normal 2010) all that closely yet and on further thought i'm not sure if i should expect that much confidence this early in the game. after all, i think it was only on day 2 that i really started noticing it there. even still, it's something that i feel is at least worth bringing up.

I have a theory that Shoshin is throwing out TRs all over the place to see who gets the warm fuzzy feeling of “hey she trs me, she’s right she must be good” and therefore Shoshin is trying to pick up buddies - hence I asked if she is always assertive - given she said she considers herself less passive in previous games, this is an alarm bell so I followed that up by saying why have you changed it up as well

But on the other hand, GIF said that’s a thing for Shoshin so my other theory is that Aronis is piggybacking on the Shoshin content - the read list was pretty dire - putting a non active as the main content is a cop out and also reading me as sure fire scum would be fine if I’d done something scummy, but I feel like Aronis is carefully manufacturing that read in line with Shoshin to try and create a bit of momentum perhaps

is this something i can townread profii off of? historically i think i'm pretty bad at reading profii so i don't think i'm really one to ask when it comes to sorting his slot but reading through i felt like having the theories was a towntell (even though that was something i got falsely townread for as scum in my first scumgame). eh.

[northsidegal]

Would Kokichi not play that way as town, NSG?

i would think that kokichi as town would at least be voting someone already or trying to sort people.

[northsidegal]

Hmm, NSG could be scum.

what makes you say that?

[northsidegal]

????

i didn't say profii was town at all, especially not

because

of something that i once did as scum... i wondered and put it out there if it was wrong to townread him for having those theories and as a counterargument to my own thinking reflected on how i got townread for the same thing in one of my own scum games.

when you say that i "said that you're overconfident to stoke gif's paranoia", why are you coming from the position of me already being scum? within what i said itself i really don't think there's a reason to interpret it that way - it only makes sense if you already think that i'm scum and so you look at that action from a scum perspective. so where is that perspective coming from in the first place? that is, on its own what i said is decidedly

not

just stoking paranoia - it's just me commenting on something that stood out to me while reading that i agreed with having remembered something from mini normal 2012. (and, this really isn't a useful discussion to get into, but yes, overconfidence was a problem in that game, or at least a contributing factor to a town loss - that's not meant to be a personal attack on you or anything of that nature, it's just me remembering what went wrong during that game).

[northsidegal]

you're still misinterpreting what i'm saying. never once have i said that he feels town

FOR

doing something that i once did as scum. i said on a gut level i want to townread him for that theory thing,

BUT

i was once townread as scum for doing that.

[northsidegal]

It's actually a weird interpretation of that game since I kept saying I had no clue who the scum were... and town kept changing their minds about things... and then they lost mostly because of lurking, faulty results, and a really bad play from our jailkeeper... like, how you get "overconfidence" from any of that is hard to really understand... so yeah it looks like you're misremembering the game and stoking GiF's paranoia...

-shrug-

it's possible that i'm confusing you with something else. i don't think so, but it's possible. i really don't want to have to turn this into me trying to prove to you that you were overconfident in reads in another game because that really doesn't sound pleasant for either of us.

even if my interpretation of that game is wrong, why do you instantly go to me stroking paranoia instead of me simply misremembering? i'm still not sure where the assumption of malice comes in.

[northsidegal]

that's not the difference that i'm trying to highlight.

[northsidegal]

meh, actually i can understand where you're coming from. making those two statements next to each other, i can see how someone would interpret that as me saying that i'm townreading him for something that i once did as scum. putting it that way misrepresents the way that i'm thinking, however. i'm townreading him for something that i think might be a towntell, it's just that i'm not sure of the reliability of that towntell. that's all.

[northsidegal]

even if my interpretation of that game is wrong, why do you instantly go to me stroking paranoia instead of me simply misremembering? i'm still not sure where the assumption of malice comes in.

I said you "could" be scum, not that you are. The point is that I'm not townreading your play because it's consistent with what I think you'd do as scum.

-shrug-

i don't think that really gets to the heart of my question but i don't think it's actually all that important to continue the discussion.

i'm townreading him for something that i think might be a towntell, it's just that i'm not sure of the reliability of that towntell.

Why would it be a towntell if you know scum do it? Like, that's what I don't get.

there's no such thing as a 100% towntell. every towntell that you can think of has been done by scum before - it's just a matter of probabilistic reasoning (if mathdino were here, he'd probably say bayesian reasoning).

[northsidegal]

there's no such thing as a 100% towntell. every towntell that you can think of has been done by scum before - it's just a matter of probabilistic reasoning (if mathdino were here, he'd probably say bayesian reasoning).

That's fine. Why is it a towntell?

it just felt that way - coming up with a theory like that struck me as something that comes from town genuinely thinking about the game.

[northsidegal]

with all of that discussion over my minor comment regarding profii, i don't want my scumread on kokichi to go understated.

[northsidegal]

Profii, why is NSG town?

I liked the way she sorted my slot. There was a balance of paranoia which seemed genuine

I also like the Koki scum read which is getting lost and imo deserves more attention

(just to be clear - i haven't "sorted" you as town at all. i just saw something which i wasn't sure was a reason to townread you for and wanted to hear others' thoughts.)

Would Kokichi not play that way as town, NSG?

i would think that kokichi as town would at least be voting someone already or trying to sort people.

Why do you think this?

personal history with him?

what other answer would you expect?

[northsidegal]

I'm also curious why GiF still townreads Koki since I'm pretty sure GiF has experience there too. And if Koki's town/scum meta is that easy to distinguish, why would Koki express preference for scum?

what makes you say that it's "that easy to distinguish"? just because it's something that i can already point out? i can't really put my finger on it, but something about that line of reasoning as a reason to not scumread him feels fallacious. there have been plenty of games that kokichi has survived long in as scum. there have been games where kokichi has been widely scumread by many day one and yet wasn't lynched.

but yes, i am interested to hear what gif has to say about kokichi.

Where did Koki express that preference ?

if he were scum, the preference would be implicit in him taking the scum role pm over the town one (assuming their pair didn't get two scum PMs)

[northsidegal]

But Koki said he got sloppy seconds (I know he could lie)

well, after all, i did hear that he

is

the ultimate liar.

[northsidegal]

yeah, i remember that game distinctly. but hey, i've never been one to give up (as i think the ending of that game proves). besides, simply misapplying one method once isn't reason to never use that method again.

[northsidegal]

(also - i didn't "hard tr you". it was the first 10 pages or so if i recall correctly, and then i wasn't around very much for the rest of the day.)

[northsidegal]

yeah, i'm fine with kokichi being scum. he's doing the thing where he just pops in and responds to or comments on a few posts and then leaves but doesn't actually say anything reads-related

LOL. WHAT. Literally this is something I do as town or scum. I can pull up links. It's just how I post since I usually post in between breaks at work

i think the more important part of what i'm saying is with regards to the content of your posts, not

how

you do it.

that is, i think the fact that you really don't have reads yet is more scum-indicative than anything else.

[northsidegal]

NSG why did you do this

do what? scumread kokichi?

eh...

i feel really awkward now responding to people who i scumread. maybe it's just a thing specifically about meta reads - the same thing happened in open 729, which was an embarrassment for me. maybe if i have a meta scumread i should just keep it to myself and just give in-game reasons as a case.

[northsidegal]

no, you can go ahead

[northsidegal]

i'm interested in the explanation

[northsidegal]

(the case made me smile, rc)

[northsidegal]

RC/NSG/Shoshin
Profii
Aronis/Kokichi
NR, Stungun (null)
Creature

is where I'm at rn

anyways i guess i mostly agree with this? well, maybe not entirely specifically, but if you were to squint hard enough i guess

i think creature is just honestly first and foremost, but beyond that i would put stungun above aronis and kokichi who i both think have a pretty decent shot of being scum

on nicorobin i honestly have no idea but if i had to just take a guess i would say she might not pick scum so i guess that's a minor reason to townread her

what i'm getting out of all of these are that aronis and kokichi both seem like people i'd be fine lynching at the moment

[northsidegal]

i think creature is just honestly first and foremost, but beyond that i would put stungun above aronis and kokichi who i both think have a pretty decent shot of being scum

i think the word "town" somehow got omitted from here, so in case it wasn't clear

i think creature is just honestly town first and foremost

[northsidegal]

then we don't actually agree on any reads

-shrug-

if i'm wrong i expect that it'll be obvious as time goes on, so i guess it's not really something that i'm all that concerned about either way

[northsidegal]

I was kinda joking about agreeing with NSG, Stun. Like, my reads agreed with hers about as much as hers agreed with GiF.

what do you disagree with?

[northsidegal]

rc, why do you townread aronis?

[northsidegal]

i have to admit that i've kind of read most of it and i don't think i've gained anything from the experience

i don't really understand why any of the wagons that are happening... are happening

i don't really think rc is scum and even though i can't really speak to that with a great deal of confidence i still think it would be a mistake to lynch him today

[northsidegal]

?????

[northsidegal]

i don't really think he's all that likely to be scum

[northsidegal]

@shoshin sheep me sheeping you please
@NSG let's lynch profii that last post was awful

Everyone else hop aboard at their leisure

I think high odds of profii/aronis but aronis might be town whereas profii is not.

actually, that last post was pretty awful.

like:

I’m not going to push you today because I was amazed that everyone backed off on you when you became the worlds biggest cry baby about being scum read but surely we’ve all seen that boring AtE from you before - it’s so fake

The posturing from you around Aronis is clear to see - you have been saying he could be scum alllllll day but won’t follow up with anything concrete

It’s super super obvious you and Aronis are the scum team but you can be pushed after a JK so people are a bit more immune to your crying later

for one, after newbie 1851 i think it was, profii probably shouldn't be talking about fake AtE coming from you. unless he's making some specific distinction between ate you're doing here and ate you've done before, profii should know that what you're saying here is in no way an inherent scumtell.

plus, i don't think i could ever agree with someone saying that a full scumteam is obvious - at least, in most scenarios, and especially on day one.

[northsidegal]

I’m saying it’s practically scripted and easy to fake as either alignment so it’s nothing to me

so if it's nai then where does your reason for scumreading gif come in in the first place?

[northsidegal]

anyways, despite that post being pretty bad i think i kind of agree with creature when it comes to scumreads, although i can't really see where a nicorobin read anywhere separate from null would come in, unless you're looking at role pm choice meta.

[northsidegal]

wrong

[northsidegal]

in retrospect i think it's actually possible that i may have townread creature too easily

i'm not sure what strange world i've come back to where i'm considering the possibility that creature took a scum role pm but i guess that's where i am now

this isn't to say that i actually found something that he said scum-indicative, just that looking at the way i've formed my own reads i may have townread him too easily

[northsidegal]

i don't want to go too in-depth in rehashing team mafia arguments but to sum it up it turned out that point c basically never happened - it was an extremely reliable heuristic to just go off of what you think people would have preferred.

[northsidegal]

anyways, a few things:

1) @shoshin, where are you thinking about voting right now? you've talked a bit about wanting to get rid of scummy lurkers.

2) how many people actually are scumreading profii? from memory i thought it was a lot but looking at the votecounts it doesn't seem like the wagon ever got beyond 1 vote, unless it happened in-between votecounts

[northsidegal]

NSG do you still SR me

yeah, pretty much.

[northsidegal]

i'm willing to lynch elsewhere. are you strongly townreading kokichi?

[northsidegal]

i don't think stungun is scum. i guess i'm willing to lynch profii, but like i've said before - i'm not sure if i can really read him. i know for a fact that as town he says weird things that i would normally scumread from someone else. like, i can look at points and agree with you that him saying them really doesn't make sense to me but i'm not sure if it would increase the likelihood of him flipping scum.

[northsidegal]

only because I’ve played her before and know her Town game is more active than this

lol

[northsidegal]

if you want to ignore rc's read on me and lose then go ahead. it's not a smart decision. also, check site wide activity.

i'm tired of this day.

[northsidegal]

she's subbed out lurked etc
she does not try and it's awful I don't respect it etc but she's easy to solve

you shouldn't jump to conclusions based off of one game

it's not accurate to say that i don't try as scum.

[northsidegal]

dear stungun: i have entirely stopped reading your posts.

also, creature; the irony of the way you're pushing me right now just occurred to me. don't you think it's a little funny?

[northsidegal]

i will admit i have very little to add to the game right now (for the record, something i've never done as scum; never as scum have i acknowledged my meta or tried the self-aware route, only tried to appear towny)

i think it's strange that profii went from earlier having a townread on me to not only assuming that creature's push on me is a jk crumb but also assuming that that would be scum me making the kill rather than town me being protected (although in all fairness, i probably wouldn't kill myself if i were scum)

anyways, i think odds are that nobody in town is actually correct on who scum is right now

[northsidegal]

i still think kokichi is scum and my powers of articulation aren't nearly what they used to be. (am i officially a washed-up mafia player? it feels like it.)

on an individual level i think all of his posts from today are pretty scum-indicative: in both what's there and what isn't there (namely any reads or true content)

Spoiler:

JK should claim if they jailed someone imo

But if maf kills jk tonight we get no inno or guilty

Nico feels town too

now I know you're just memeing

I lol'd

Whilst I am doubtful over your claims of great reads, I’ll happily lynch creature. I’m pretty sure NSG / Creature is TvS and I’m going to do what RC said he did i a recent newbie game with me

Go against my gut to vote with the town direction as it’s the “right” way to play

However if you are all right and I’m wrong -
A) great, I think we get a scum flip out of Creature if NSG!town
B) a creature scum flip should tell you I’m not the scum partner - given the immediate pressure would I immeadiately bus given I can be JK guiltied tonight if that all happens?

So

VOTE: Creature


Bed time ta ta zzzzzz

How did you go from he is JK to he is scum

[northsidegal]

stungun: if you have something important to say then i think you should say it in a way that makes people want to or at least be likely to read it.

[northsidegal]

creature, for the sake of my sanity, for the moment i'm going to continue on as if you can be sorted the same way you could a few months ago. whether or not that's true, i'm not sure.

accept for a moment that i'm not scum - who

is

scum? why do you townread kokichi?

[northsidegal]

jailkeepers can't have guilties.

hey, it's product placement mafia all over again. that's a wonderful memory right there. i love how it's happening again.

[northsidegal]

what
if
he
didn't
jail
me

what
if
scum
targeted
me
for
the
kill

[northsidegal]

if you want to be lazy and not give much thought to your vote you can do that

you just shouldn't have any pretenses as to that not being what you're doing

[northsidegal]

(sorry, that was rude.)

[northsidegal]

interesting decision

[northsidegal]

I asked you to prove something and gave you a chance to clear yourself, but you would rather heckle me. Okay then......

i'm not heckling you

how would i

possibly

prove that, in the scenario that creature is the jailer and he jailed me, that scum shot me rather than he stopped me

i can't "prove" something from a

hypothetical situation

in the first place

[northsidegal]

apart from the simple truth of my being town eliminating that possibility, there's the fact that if creature was a jailer that had jailed me to stop the kill he would presumably have claimed it

(there's also the fact that he hasn't actually softed being jailer as far as i know)

[northsidegal]

also, creature; the irony of the way you're pushing me right now just occurred to me. don't you think it's a little funny?

Bah, not ironic.

eh, i think it's pretty ironic when you think about it. at least, i'm sure you know the feeling that i have right now.

[northsidegal]

Creature implied being a JK with a guilty on nsg, and it's more likely that he is. That's Occam's razor for ya.

And you yourself said one of me/nsg/maria has a high possibility of being scum, which increases the odds of nsg being scum rather than decreasing them like you believe.

[northsidegal]

What's ironic then?

maybe that's not irony. just felt like i was in a situation that you've been in a lot of times before.

[northsidegal]

i didn't mean to be mean or cause you any distress, and that wasn't even me disagreeing with anything you're saying

what i was trying to convey was that the structure of your posts makes me very inclined to either lightly skim or completely skip over them. just having more words doesn't make something more convincing.

maybe this is just me being lazy. just wanted to explain what i meant after seeing it got you upset

[northsidegal]

have i voted kokichi yet today?

if not

VOTE: kokichi

[northsidegal]

shoshin could be scum as well.

[northsidegal]

Nsg can you ask rc some questions

why is he townreading kokichi and shoshin?

[northsidegal]

What do you think about Kokichi?

Too scummy to be scum if that makes sense

why?

i can see this reasoning

sometimes

in

some games.

I don't think it's a good idea to apply it here.

[northsidegal]

hot take: i think that all scum are in {shoshin, Maria, kokichi}

[northsidegal]

admittedly i haven't actually specifically sat down and tried to read maria, which i should probably do

[northsidegal]

by the way, i'm decently confident in these being scum indicative

Spoiler:

Kokichi's pretty town this game too

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

Going to need you to explain this one

Waiting for Creature to explain

Still waiting on creature

Waiting on stun to give his sr

[northsidegal]

hot take: i think that all scum are in {shoshin, Maria, kokichi}

i guess there's an off-chance that nicorobin is scum. wouldn't terribly surprise me although i don't have a reason in specific to believe it, moreso a lack of reasons to townread her.

[northsidegal]

he also says some not so nice things that I refuse to medium about!

about me? oh, dear.

anyways, that doesn't tell me why he's townreading kokichi.

[northsidegal]

hey, my one year anniversary on mafiascum passed and i totally missed it. that's disappointing, i was looking forward to it in the days leading up.

[northsidegal]

two main things i'd like to talk about:

1. what are we doing / thinking about nicorobin's slot? is dubious logic when it comes to votes AI for her? can anyone confirm if this is actually true or not:

Lurking in the game is my town trait, and I am much more assertive as scum. I am sure that those who played w/me can tell you that much.

2. once that's been figured out i'd like to reiterate my thoughts on the scumteam being within three people (pending hearing others thoughts on nicorobin)

i feel like i've put this forward but nobody much has actually talked about it

[northsidegal]

What's really the difference between you lowposting as town and as scum?

the actual content of my posts, mainly. it's pretty lazy of you to try to read me solely based off of periods of activity, and also pretty questionable given that i'm clearly v/la and have clearly been site-wide inactive. you would also be saying that rc was wrong on his read of me. i'm moving. this is getting really boring doing this over and over again.

what are we doing / thinking about nicorobin's slot?

idk, I'm thinking Nico would probably do more as scum and I like that she's voting you.

Do you have a better tell on NicoRobin?

so what you're saying is that what she said about being more assertive as scum is true? that's what i was wondering.

[northsidegal]

Hey north

hi. why are you townreading kokichi?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=75246

what am i meant to be gleaming from this? because what i see from her iso there is massive amounts of lurking (puncutated by posts like "here" or "hi") and not that many posts. am i meant to be seeing assertiveness / "doing more"?

[northsidegal]

Rc is the person she's the most scared of seeing because he can read her super well so the lurking makes a ton of sense for nico scum

what are rc's thoughts on nico this game?

are you suggesting that nico is more likely to be scum this game because of her lurking? because as far as i'm aware lurking is par for the course for her, town or scum. just looking for what your conclusion is here.

Shoshin really shouldn't be scum and of the scumteams in that pool the only one that's plausible is Kokichi/Nico to me so if it's not that she's jsut wrong

why isn't shoshin scum?

i think you think that profii is scum, right? why is profii / nico not a viable team?

[northsidegal]

@nicorobin

: has the ducky given any thoughts on this game? if so, what are they?

[northsidegal]

I'm townreading Kokichi mostly based on tone and but being partners with Profi
I also like his "we're finally town together" post.

sorry, can you elaborate on your first line? are you saying you townread him based on scumreading profii and thinking that they're not partners?

do you really think a line like "we're finally town together" can't be faked?

When RC was gonna say mean things he rly meant 1 of your posts were stupid.
He thinks very highly of you and wants me to call you babycakes all that fluffy stuff.

which post?

and it's alright rc, my feelings weren't hurt (that much </3)

[northsidegal]

sorry, i'm not really convinced on profii being scum so a townread based off of pre-flip associatives doesn't convince me very much.

[northsidegal]

sorry, not really.

anyways, on an unrelated note, not sure why i should be townreading shoshin. from the very beginning i kind of just took it as a granted but looking back on his posts right now (and especially those from today), i realize that i was giving out far too easy of a townread.

this is a really scummy pop-in after being prodded that when i look at it really reminds me of scum feeling like "i really don't want to put in the effort to fake something towny so let me just make a few posts in a row"

Spoiler:

prodding shoshin and northsidegal

Meh, I'll get into this eventually.

Why isn't profii lynched yet?

Stun, why are you on Nico?

Why isn't profii lynched yet?

Why would I be lynched

Scummy behaviors.

no effort to get a scumread lynched, a scumread who is apparently so strongly scumread that he asks why he isn't lynched yet. it feels very fake to me.



there's basically no actual content for the rest of his iso up until now, and it's been 5 days since he's posted anything despite having posted in other games within that timeframe

Spoiler: the rest of his iso up until now, you should also look at these yourself because the timestamps of the posts are also important

That's literally the point I was making about Profii.. and you unvoted when asked...

Actually nvm, I can't keep things straight. I'm not reading this very carefully atm

@shoshin i actually need to know why you were so adamant about aronis claiming last day phase? so much so that you were entirely distracted from the profii lynch.

I don't think it's okay for players to troll around like Aronis, be put at L-1 where it's obvious they're going to get lynched if they don't claim, and then refuse to claim. I find that sort of behavior anti-town and I think it's anti-town to let it continue.

Your view of my play is too simplistic, Stun. You're missing the forest for the trees.

Creature's probably town.

[northsidegal]

that

is

interesting timing.

not that i think it's necessarily ai. i know there have been times where i've just happened to show up as people have started to talk about me. it's actually happened to me frequently.

[northsidegal]

Well, I just looked at the game and saw that post, haven't read most of the others.

has irrelephant been keeping up / saying anything about this game?

It's okay that you suspect me for now. I'll be obvious town eventually, once I get into the game. Tomorrow, probably.

why will you be obvtown? are there any obvious differences between your town and scum game that i should be aware about?

Rc can see Kokichi scum over Shoshin so vote there if you must please.

-shrug-

that's already what i'm doing. just wanted to let people know my thoughts.

[northsidegal]

to say that i suspect you

for

inactivity is inaccurate.

also, inactivity is not my "thing". i resent that.

[northsidegal]

why will you be obvtown? are there any obvious differences between your town and scum game that i should be aware about?

There's a remarkable difference between the two. You're welcome to review for yourself.

what's the difference? if it's so glaring, mind giving me a little hint? that should make things easier, after all.

[northsidegal]

i don't understand why my small comment that people were overconfident in their reads has affected you this much. i'm sorry? i didn't think it would be much of a point of contention once people saw who the actual scumteam was. i never even said anything about your play specifically, nor anything

other than

or

worse than

"people were overconfident in reads that were wrong". i still don't understand how that can be much of a point of contention considering how that game actually ended.

[northsidegal]

As for Tropical, it's a huge point of contention since you're just wrong about what happened in that game. I was literally voting scum when I was mislynched, so the idea that I was "overconfident" doesn't make any sense... all my townreads were correct (i.e. all of the remaining town members, except Mumble), and I had the scum narrowed down by poe such that town would have won if I hadn't been stupidly mislynched (and btw, I was only mislynched because of a single player's stupidity, not the collective stupidity of town).We're talking about a single overconfident player - Mumble - who fucked things up. Your assessment of the game felt very superficial and dishonest, in a way that makes me think you were trying to discredit me before this game even got going. Or you're being honest and that makes me resent you because it's insulting. A lot more insulting than saying you're inactive, since you're actually insulting my play whereas I'm just saying you're inactive, same as me.

-shrug-

i apologize. it was never anything i said in reference to you specifically back when 2012 was still going on, and in this game when someone mentioned "overconfidence" i suppose i simply associated it with you given that i also associated overconfidence with 2012, which you were in. the idea that i did it to discredit you is silly, especially given that i doubt anyone has taken it to heart - i had barely remembered it myself, and i am genuinely very surprised to see how much it mattered to you. again - sorry.

this is a really scummy pop-in after being prodded that when i look at it really reminds me of scum feeling like "i really don't want to put in the effort to fake something towny so let me just make a few posts in a row"

Explain how this suspicion isn't based on my inactivity.

it's not based on simply your presence or lack of presence in the thread, it's based on the content of your posts while you're here. i'm not sure how you would associate that with activity.

[northsidegal]

do people think that creature takes a scum role pm? genuine question here.

[northsidegal]

ircher endgamed as scum recently

creature has far more of a scum-hating reputation than him

[northsidegal]

ircher hates scum though, or so i’ve heard. why is he choosing it if he

hates

scum?

"I'm the kind of player that cares most about townplay and thinks being scum and hoping town mislynches is very boring. Yes, I highly despise being groupscum, what's fun about being scum?"

-First words of Creature's wiki

[northsidegal]

if kokichi is town, but also creature and profii are both town, then who is scum nsg? i want to see things from your point of view here, because i just see you going to bat for a high number of players and it does not really feel like aside from kokichi you have been focused on scumhunting.

i don't think kokichi is town. why do you?

A high number of players? I've specifically said that I think

all scum

are within three players. I've really only focused on kokichi and shoshin today. What on earth makes you say "a high number of players"?

[northsidegal]

I mean, I guess it's not -entirely- inaccurate to say i've been less focused on scumhunting - that's because I already have a poe and am more focused on getting my existing scumreads lynched.

[northsidegal]

uh, who said self meta is bad?

[northsidegal]

Someone in this thread.

um, who?

[northsidegal]

NSG saying that I'm scummy because of content is bullshit. My content is fine. She suspects me because I'm not around, period. Saying otherwise is bullshit.

????

how could you possibly purport to know better than i do what i'm scumreading you for? you're not taking the position that my scumread is fake so you're not saying i'm scum, but you're trying to say that i'm lying about my reasoning, which i have no reason to do as town

[northsidegal]

so in some sense that makes me think that you know i'm town and yet you want to cheapen my scumread by saying it's for not real or hypocritical reasons

[northsidegal]

I'm saying you're scum, NSG.

if i'm scum then the statement "nsg suspects me because i'm not around" is a contradiction

you're implying that i'm both scum

and

that my reasons for suspecting you are genuine - that is, genuine in the sense of not being made up

Why do you townread Profii?

-shrug-

i think he's lynchbait.

[northsidegal]

you cannot logically genuinely hold both the position that I scumread you for activity and that i'm scum

it doesn't make sense. it's contradictory

[northsidegal]

i don't think i've never seen someone respond to being scumread by just countering and saying their own content is fine

not much of an argument to be had i guess

[northsidegal]

And then she says I'm contradicting myself because I happen to have a progression to my reads?

patently, unambiguously false. it's not even an argument to be had that that is not what i'm saying. i'm saying you're contradicting yourself because you're accusing me of doing something that only makes sense if i'm town while also calling me scum.

if i'm scum then my read on you is entirely fabricated in the first place, but that's not what you were arguing. you said that my read on you was because of different reasons than i was saying - which implies that there's still a reason, which implies that i'm town.

i'd like someone else to weigh in on this, because

i

feel like this is pretty cut and dry, but i want to hear what other people think.

That's scummy in itself. Like, she's not looking at the obvious town tells in front of her

would you mind pointing out those town tells? i don't think you ever actually responded to me asking what the stark differences between your town and scum meta were. i still have an open mind - if there really are those differences then i'll look into them.

[northsidegal]

NSG, I said the read is fabricated. Do you understand the meaning of the word "bullshit"?

you specifically said that it was fake after i pointed out the contradiction in your thought process

your original post was this:

NSG saying that I'm scummy because of content is bullshit. My content is fine. She suspects me because I'm not around, period.

i feel as if the important part to focus on here is the "she suspects me because i'm not around, period"

that comment doesn't make sense to make about someone who you believe is scum.

[northsidegal]

at the end of the day i could be correct about your comment not making sense regarding someone who you actually scumread and you could still be town

i don't really think that's the case, but as i've said before i think scum are within three people so that leaves open the possibility that you're the town within that group

just don't want my degree of confidence to be overstated or anything, which is something i've tended to notice when i get into arguments like this. people begin to think that the point i'm arguing means that i'm dead set on whatever or whoever i'm arguing about / with being scum. that's not necessarily the case, although i do think you have a decent chance of being scum.

[northsidegal]

that's a surprise

[northsidegal]

i didn't target anyone night one. and yet, nobody died.

consider the implications of this.

[northsidegal]

I think scum wanted to frame someone who was likely to be jailed. Whether that be a townread or scumread.

i would imagine that it would also imply that scum were not concerned about getting lynched

after all, if they thought one of them was set to die, would they really set themselves backwards in terms of endgaming like that?

[northsidegal]

we don't know who scum is and it's wifom. I'm not rly gonna look into it too much and overthink because yes scum could try to frame someone but that can be a trap in itself etc.

?????

it's not really wifom at all

[northsidegal]

pretty much the only reason i can think of for scum to have no-killed is because they either thought that neither of them would be investigated and as such wanted to frame whoever was investigated

or (and this may be unlikely but it's possible) scum thought it was likely that they were targeted by the jailkeeper in a protective manner (i.e. someone would act like a doctor in jailing them or just that the jailkeeper townread them), and so hoped to make it look like they had been shot at and protected

[northsidegal]

If I am scum you got outplayed and I'm winning accept that right now. I'll hopefully talk with RC when he gets up and you'll all finally sheep.

lol

we don't know who scum is and it's wifom. I'm not rly gonna look into it too much and overthink because yes scum could try to frame someone but that can be a trap in itself etc.

?????

it's not really wifom at all

it doesn't change the end game result for me. So I don't care

how can this knowledge not change things for you

what is your current view of the scumteam and does it make sense within this context?

[northsidegal]

Wait! That's wrong!

you guys really make me smile with this stuff

that would make a maria plus nicorobin team possible. nico was scummy and inactive anyway, but maria was highly townread on d1,

i was just considering the possibility of that pairing, actually.

[northsidegal]

pretty much the only reason i can think of for scum to have no-killed is because they either thought that neither of them would be investigated and as such wanted to frame whoever was investigated

or (and this may be unlikely but it's possible) scum thought it was likely that they were targeted by the jailkeeper in a protective manner (i.e. someone would act like a doctor in jailing them or just that the jailkeeper townread them), and so hoped to make it look like they had been shot at and protected

Then why the hell did you scumread me going into day 2?

were you a widely scumread player? i didn't really get the impression that there was a lot of support for your lynch going into the night.

[northsidegal]

If I was scum the obv jail keeper that we defended all game would be dead.

well, i have two things to say in response to this: the first is that the second possibility that i proposed

is

still a possibility (however unlikely, although i wouldn't put it past rc). the second thing is this - did you ever indicate anywhere before today specifically that you thought i was the jailkeeper? yes, you defended me (as RC would have to do if he didn't want to scumclaim given that i'm town this game), but it's entirely possible that you believed that Shoshin was the jailkeeper, hence his death. after all, it was only today that you said it was obviously me.

[northsidegal]

I don't know why I swapped into a game with someone I dislike expecting it to go well.

?

me?

[northsidegal]

Just to be clear

NSG you are explicitly claiming JK?

well, i said that i didn't target anyone. that same statement would hold true if i was vanilla town!

If I was scum the obv jail keeper that we defended all game would be dead.

well, i have two things to say in response to this: the first is that the second possibility that i proposed

is

still a possibility (however unlikely, although i wouldn't put it past rc). the second thing is this - did you ever indicate anywhere before today specifically that you thought i was the jailkeeper? yes, you defended me (as RC would have to do if he didn't want to scumclaim given that i'm town this game), but it's entirely possible that you believed that Shoshin was the jailkeeper, hence his death. after all, it was only today that you said it was obviously me.

Of course I never said anywhere that you're the obv jailer but I defended your ass the whole time because it was very clear to me along with RC's own townread that you were the jailer. I'm not gonna make that clear for the scumteam

okay. i'm not explicitly using this as a reason

for

you being scum - all that i'm saying is that the statement "i would have killed nsg because i knew she was the jailkeeper" doesn't hold up as a defense.

[northsidegal]

I don't respect you as a mafia player no. I have no problem with you personally but mafia wise I try to avoid you.

oh. okay. i think i know what your reasoning for this is and i still think that you're jumping to conclusions based off of poor examples, but alright.

[northsidegal]

-shrug-

[northsidegal]

what am i doing that's making you annoyed? i was just asking why this information doesn't seem to factor in at all for you.

i'm also interested to hear what your kokichi read is now

[northsidegal]

what am i doing that's making you annoyed? i was just asking why this information doesn't seem to factor in at all for you.

i'm also interested to hear what your kokichi read is now

I'm annoyed at myself for not softing that you were obv JK because I felt that was blatantly clear and that you'd finally sheep us. So I'm annoyed that I even have to do this. You're not really doing anything to annoy me.
To be blunt Nico has done jack shit and doesn't deserve to win and could be scum and I want to vote there but I could be bias so I'm waiting for RC

that can't possibly be what originally got you annoyed (as in these posts)

Spoiler:

For rc's sake I'm not gonna say what's on my mind cause ooooo

I don't know why I swapped into a game with someone I dislike expecting it to go well.

because i asked you about that subject in this post, which came after

Spoiler:

If I was scum the obv jail keeper that we defended all game would be dead.

well, i have two things to say in response to this: the first is that the second possibility that i proposed

is

still a possibility (however unlikely, although i wouldn't put it past rc). the second thing is this - did you ever indicate anywhere before today specifically that you thought i was the jailkeeper? yes, you defended me (as RC would have to do if he didn't want to scumclaim given that i'm town this game), but it's entirely possible that you believed that Shoshin was the jailkeeper, hence his death. after all, it was only today that you said it was obviously me.

[northsidegal]

If NSG is JK and no CC

Maria would have shot NSG

you're assuming that maria knew that the jailkeeper was me yesterday, which isn't an assumption you can make

[northsidegal]

side thought - i'm still mystified at this strange world i've stepped into where creature gets mislynched

how did that happen

[northsidegal]

Bad 180 flip on me. Also he claimed scum? And then self hammered himself?

he didn't claim scum, he just made a weird comment that could be read either way. in the first place i don't think he should have been getting wagoned at all. but i guess what's done is done.

[northsidegal]

yes

softing that you know but not saying who doesn't actually mean that you have to know. you must get bluffed every game of poker you play.

[northsidegal]

-shrug-

mostly just to mess with you. maybe nicorobin will counterclaim me, which i would love.

[northsidegal]

please don't point out reasons why nicorobin might not be the jailkeeper

serious request

[northsidegal]

-shrug-

you won't really hurt my feelings any more. call it a strange feeling but i get the sense that this might be game-relevant now, so i kind of want to hear it.

(and i still want to hear your kokichi read)

[northsidegal]

there's also still the question of why you don't think the information is relevant

[northsidegal]

NKA is shit always has been

oh. what about when you said this from a recent scumgame you won from people not looking at nka:

Honestly town didn't look at NKA and the people who were correct died early.

[northsidegal]

-shrug-

i really think you're lying to me.

[northsidegal]

but wasn't that post-game?

[northsidegal]

the reason i was townreading profii is because i would never imagine that a scumteam with him would deliberately no-kill night one

[northsidegal]

NSG can you tell me your thoughts?

i thought i made a post earlier but it must not have gone through

the only reasons i imagine as possible for the scumteam no-killing seem inconsistent with profii being scum. that is, profii seemed to have a high chance of either getting jailed or just getting lynched going into day two. if he were scum, it doesn't make that much sense to me for a team with him on it to try no-killing. it would not only be a gamble that profii wasn't the one jailed, but also that the jail wasn't used as a doctor save - after all, if the jail were used protectively, all scum would be doing would be giving town a false innocent (assuming it wasn't on one of them) while giving up a chance to kill.

anyways, beyond that on an instinctual level i had been townreading your reactions ever since this day started, and i was trying to figure out if nicorobin had ever reacted like this as scum.

i've also been wondering if i may have been giving stungun too easy of a townread.

[northsidegal]

What's your maria/RC read then?

i still think she has a decent chance of being scum. her logic for not factoring in the lack of a kill night one into her view of who's scum doesn't make sense to me. calling it "wifom" is just completely inaccurate as far as my understanding of what WIFOM actually

is

goes, and saying that "nka is terrible" as a justification for ignoring it also misses the point that it's not really night-kill analysis in the first place.

going off of the

fairly likely

assumption that scum thought that the jailkeeper would actually submit a jail, it seems to me that there are really only a few real possible reasons for what they did, all of which have logical implications. it's not at all like a regular nightkill where "scum killed him because he scumread scum" and "scum killed him to try to frame the person he's townreading" are both points that could be argued, along with other such dichotomies. like i said, i don't think the same thing holds true for what's happened here.

i also think that even if the quote i pulled really was the first time she's ever said NKA was useful, the recent nature of that post seems like it probably should have affected her opinion or at least come up in some way? it doesn't make sense to me to go from the opinion of NKA being bad, to see and admit how she would have lost a game had town used it, and then to go straight back to the opinion that it's entirely useless.

i’ve been frustrated that people are still considering me being scum, and so is gemini, so wake up people.

who's doing this? this could really be me not reading closely enough, but i don't really recall many people putting forward the idea of you as scum today.

[northsidegal]

here's a throwback

Spoiler: VoteCount Settings

priorVCNumber=0
url=viewtopic.php?f=83&t=76964
playerList=NicoRobin,GuyInFreezer,profii,Kokichi Oma,Shoshin,northsidegal{nsg},stungun0404,Aronis,Creature
replacementList=GuyInFreezer:MariaR
moderatorNames=schadd_,RadiantCowbells
dayStartNumbers=7,1375,2002
cleanDay=true
deadline=2018-09-15 18:15:00 -5.00
deadList=Shoshin-3
voteOverrides=

[northsidegal]

to go straight back to the opinion that it's entirely useless.

Because I was scum and had all the info that game. I'm town and don't have all the info here that's the big dif. It's not that hard.
I'm gonna be not looking at this for a day because it just makes me want to roll my eyes into the back of my head so ta ta until then

huh? that honestly seems like a complete non-sequitur to me. you were recognizing that, had town looked at NKA, they would have done better, correct?

it's like - yes, you had all of the info, and as such you could recognize that NKA would have pointed to the scum in that game. how does that not translate into thinking that in some situations you might be on the opposite end and as town you might be able to figure something out about scum by looking at NKA?

[northsidegal]

Because.
NKA.
is.
WIFOM.
Always.

is deliberately no-killing in this setup really "nka"? it doesn't seem that way to me, really.

[northsidegal]

so, hello

[northsidegal]

what would you like me to comment on or do specifically? i don't mean to be rude. i'm just trying to use my time in a smart manner. is there something you want me to read specifically, or would you just like my thoughts in general?

[northsidegal]

okay.

i thought you were scum for a while, but that kind of took a pretty sharp turn at the start of the day.

i still don't think that profii being scum makes sense with the lack of a kill day one.

i've been wondering if nicorobin has ever reacted the way she did here as scum, although it's not something that i've gone into as much detail as i would have liked to to check (and when it comes to "reasons to townread people", i'm not holding this one as an especially strong one - i think there's still a pretty decent chance nicorobin is scum)

i don't have a really specific reason to believe that stungun is town. i'm not especially set on him being scum - i guess it's just that i don't have all that much that i know (or at least, strongly believe) to be both reliable and town indicative. to elaborate, there are a few things that i think vaguely are towntells for him specifically (making these massive, massive cases on people multiple times a day and such), but i haven't done as much reading as i would like to to actually confirm whether or not these things aren't present in his scumgame. (and, thinking on it more just now, i recall being LAMIST as something that i saw him do as scum. so, like i said - not really sure what conclusion to come to)

mariar i think there are sensible reasons to believe is scum. if it's worth anything, creature also thought mariar was scum before he was lynched. he's usually pretty good at reads.

[northsidegal]

Also I thought of a plan of Lynching Nico and (if she flips scum) you jailing Maria because of the doubt you and stun have of her. What do you think of that? Maria seemed okay with the plan

who do you actually think is scum?

[northsidegal]

Also nico doesn't react like this as town.

are you just saying this off of memory or are there specific instances you can link me to?

[northsidegal]

If you mean the games where I was confirmable town, like 1936 and SU2, they don't count, because as confirmable town, I could speak my mind more freely.

p.edit: Like I said, I was conftown that game, so it doesn't count.

i mean this

could

be called an explanation of that but i'm not sure how much sense it actually makes at all



-shrug-

i don't see much changing for me in the near future, so i suppose there's no point in stalling further. i guess the only thing to think about would be if i should try to get mariar lynched first, which i think might be a real consideration.

[northsidegal]

I'm not voting Maria, she's lock town by meta.

So that isn't happening.

is there any chance you could elaborate on that, as well as your history in reading maria such that you can say that (not to imply anything)

@nsg, if you have found nothing i have done to have been that much of a towntell, then why not ever question any of the flipped town’s townreads on me? all aronis, shoshin, and creature had unqualified townreads on me from what i recall. heck, even aronis and creature both sheeped me on a read, and i terribly regret allowing myself to be convinced lynching either of them honestly, and especially for taking a leading role on the creature mislynch (though tbf, he made a few comments that were exactly like the ones i seen him make in his heroes wanted game which just finished and was his scum game, and that scumpinged me hard).

outside of you saying that i should trust any of those reads because of the people who made them, i'm not sure what point you're trying to make when shoshin is the only one who was nightkilled and not lynched. anyways, creature had a strong townread on you? could you quote that?

creature did not have that many strong reads in this game.

are you sure about that? admittedly my viewpoint might be biased, but it seems to me like he pretty plainly scumread maria.

Spoiler:

I'm fine doing any of Maria, Kokichi or Nico.

MariaR, Kokichi, Nico is like 1/3 chance of lynching town

MariaR is likely scum but likely no one will do anything about it, so 1/2 chance of lynching town

MariaR is likely scum but likely no one will do anything about it, so 1/2 chance of lynching town

Why is Maria scum? Her posts seem towny as fuck to me. The conversations with RC don't feel faked at all, and

RC wouldn't be weighing in to that extent on this game if he were scum.

Not to mention that RC was towny as fuck throughout his posting in the early points of this game, and everything Maria's doing is pretty much how she plays?

Are you sure?

we gotta find the scum between Kokichi and Nico then

maybe Maria will then be jailed and we'll finally end this game

The fact profii and me are still being pushed means town is like stalking their own tail.

You're simply being pocketed with potentially strong scum, like MariaR.

with 3 votes that have never truly been on profii out of 6, there’s a lower chance he gets lynched with the shoshin kill, because nobody outside of shoshin has constantly remained on him

okay

you've described to me why it would make sense for profii as scum to have killed shoshin, but not why i should specifically believe that that's the case over any other potential explanation

[northsidegal]

nico —> to be fair, the fact that she’s the only player that has not casted an angle thinking i might be scum and we’re in MYLO kinda seems town suggestive to me.

i really think thinking like this is a horrible, horrible mistake

[northsidegal]

looking at things, shoshin had a very strong townread on maria, therefore if we trust shoshin is accurate with her strong townreads, then it’s a good bet maria is town. she went so far as to say she would never lynch maria.

???

is this within the context of shoshin being the nightkill or are you just making this statement in general, knowing that shoshin is town? the distinction is pretty important, but either way i think it's a bad idea.

[northsidegal]

(you don't have to answer the thing about quoting where creature was townreading you, i see it now. i made 2557 before the other posts and just didn't get to post it for a little bit)

[northsidegal]

oh yeah, flavor leaf would probably take scum over profii. i think that's one of the reasons i was townreading him.

it's also strange because i would imagine that the ducky would take scum over nicorobin - that being said, i only know the ducky's abilities when it comes to scum, not really his preference. i think maybe he prefers town? don't really remember.

[northsidegal]

both those are things we cannot prove, and very well can be confbiased off our experiences with a given player.

are you trying to say that reading people based off of their content is any different for this, or indeed any

less

of these? because i would argue the exact opposite.

if the main thing you are townreading him for is game mechanics right now that is not enough when we are sitting in MYLO with a player and that player could have manipulated every single aspect you are looking into;

we know as an almost certainty that scum did not anticipate us finding out about the deliberate lack of a kill night one - that is something that cannot have been manipulated.

in fact i think you said early on in this game you have read profii wrong in every game you have been in. if you are reading entirely based off mechanics, what makes this the exception to the rule?

no, i never said that.

in a previous game with profii i

believe

(speaking strictly from memory) that i scumread him for his content, and then eventually i figured out he was town through mechanics. what makes this game different is that i'm focusing mainly on the mechanics (the thing that got me the correct answer), and not the content (which i know has historically gotten profii to be lynchbait in previous games)

[northsidegal]

NSG mentioned making massive cases about everyone is necessarily town indicative

no i didn't

[northsidegal]

i thought i was pretty clear that i was willing to lynch nicorobin, although perhaps i'm remembering things inaccurately

and yeah, i guess i'll probably jail maria if nico flips scum.

[northsidegal]

hey nicorobin, can you link the last few times you've been lynched as scum and maybe one or two times you've been lynched as town

[northsidegal]

i have no intentions of letting the day end with a no lynch.

[northsidegal]

hey nicorobin, can you link the last few times you've been lynched as scum and maybe one or two times you've been lynched as town

[northsidegal]

VOTE: nicorobin

[northsidegal]

Is there a reason every time we are in the same together you underperform?

-shrug-

see my signature.

also, i started college recently. maybe mulch really did have the right idea.

[northsidegal]

if nicorobin flips scum i will be jailing profii

[northsidegal]

if you are scum you and rc should write down exactly what you guys think my thought process will be when it comes to the jailing target

i'm interested to see how accurate it might be

assuming nico flips town of course

[northsidegal]

nsg promised to not jail us if this flips town so I can't be mad tbh

did i?

[northsidegal]

-shrug-

i'm preparing myself for disappointment on a personal level.

[northsidegal]

RC's asking you to promise.

i promise as long as you're not scum. i don't think i could handle the betrayal.

[northsidegal]

it's suboptimal to no-lynch today

assume for the sake of argument that profii was framed. given that town wins if nobody is lynched or killed for three phases, scum (not profii) will eventually be forced to kill me. this leaves us at 4 alive with 1 conftown (profii). that's an EV of 33%.

now assume that we lynch profii today, he flips town, and we go into the night with my jail target being pre-announced. we're at 4 people alive. if there is no kill,

then

we can continue to no-lynch, because even if scum is trying to frame someone again, they will eventually be forced to give up the ruse and kill me, leaving us with 3 alive and 1 conftown (50% EV). if there

is

a kill, we're still left at 3 alive with 1 conftown. (50% ev).

all of this is, of course, planning for the worst case scenario, and says nothing about my actual reads on anyone - merely what i think is the best strategy.

[northsidegal]

so let's lynch profii and then if that does't work i'll jail maria

[northsidegal]

i have already detailed why it is mathematically suboptimal to no-lynch today

in fact, the only way that we can end up in lylo

without

a cop clear is by no-lynching today

[northsidegal]

oh and i had already started writing out a very nice detailed elaboration, with capital letters and everything

[northsidegal]

VOTE: profii

jailing maria if profii flips town

[northsidegal]

everyone remember to submit fast nights!

[northsidegal]

everyone remember to submit fast nights!

scumslip, knows that profii is flipping town!

[northsidegal]

in my mind the only way town can lose is by lynching tomorrow rather than going for the no-lynches and continuous jailing

[northsidegal]

VOTE: no-lynch

[northsidegal]

We lynch and you take the 50/50 North.

why?

You jailed me right? (First of all why the fuck did you people lynch so fast while I was working)

yeah.

[northsidegal]

but then you become conftown in lylo, so we still have 1 conftown either way :>

also, if you're scum, i don't die and town wins :>

[northsidegal]

what advantages does that plan have over my current plan? genuine question here.

[northsidegal]

-shrug-

i'm a patient person. i would have to wonder why scum who isn't you in this situation even bothers dragging it out and no-killing instead of going directly to 3 person lylo.

[northsidegal]

How the hell did prof flip town. What an idiot

i told you guys.

[northsidegal]

and noooooobody believed me.

[northsidegal]

not true

there are 4 alive, 1 conftown. those are 33% odds.

if we no-lynch and i die, there would be 3 alive, 1 conftown. that's 50% odds.

[northsidegal]

?

nobody's lynching you?

i think no-lynching is a pretty good plan. the optimal plan, even.

[northsidegal]

I'm annoyed because the paranoia team I had was prof/stun not nico/stun. Now I have to look into interactions but meta tells me Maria is town here, NSG.

if you're town and you believe maria is town then you should be completely fine with no-lynching, going to lylo where maria becomes conftown and then you guys lynching stungun to win the game

[northsidegal]

i'm fairly certain we can still win. it basically comes down to the fact that we bet the game on one person (who can't be me) being town.

[northsidegal]

can still lose, that is.

[northsidegal]

so let's no lynch so that you and maria can win come 3 person lylo?

[northsidegal]

so let's no lynch so that you and maria can win come 3 person lylo?

Do you not trust yourself. Just curious

-shrug-

what it comes down to is that my read on maria doesn't actually really matter. if i'm right then we win. if i'm wrong then i trust you guys to win. that's why i'm pushing this plan so much - you don't even need to believe that i'm right.

[northsidegal]

Maria why are you against NLing? If you're not scum then you can be cleared.

it just speeds up town both cases lead to the same thing.
This just speeds up time

they say patience is a virtue

[northsidegal]

Maria can we just nl

no-lynching only requires 2 when there's 4 people alive, you don't even need to get maria to vote as well

[northsidegal]

it shouldn't even be all that long if we all just send in fast night requests. 3 of us are online right now, if stun comes on we could get through the no-lynches pretty quickly.

[northsidegal]

that's a strange assumption to make

[northsidegal]

I stand by said assumption or you'd be lynching rn.

i think i've already made it clear that i genuinely hold the belief that no-lynching is the best play town can make. so given that, what makes you think that what's stopping me from choosing a different option is something to do with responsibility rather than my genuinely held belief as to what the best course of action is?

you don't actually have to answer that if you don't want to (i don't think it's actually relevant), just felt like that warranted a response.

Whenever you're mafia that's responsibility and from what I've seen you run. Now that you have the chance of it again you're nling until you die to run again. You can say "no that's not true" but from my personal experience with you it's the truth
Pedit: It's not auto stop saying it is *yawn* w/e I'm getting off this thread

i'm no lynching to either win the game or to be proven wrong, not to "run"

-shrug-

you can't get me upset, if that's what you're trying to do. it just won't happen.

[northsidegal]

ok

[northsidegal]

i am going to give out my very best cases today, so i want time working to my favor, because i know i am town and i want to be that player that nsg can trust and take with her so that town wins no matter what

instead of doing that, vote no-lynch

your convincing me on anything has no bearing on whether or not we win this game. either we win through no-lynching or i will be dead come 3 person lylo. in that situation the person you need to be convincing will be mariar, and that is a bridge that you should cross when you come to it. for now? vote no lynch

[northsidegal]

NSG doesn't want to make the final decision. I think she trusts if maria/RC are town they make the right decision.

wrong

[northsidegal]

well, wrong on the first part, right on the second

[northsidegal]

i'm surprised that you actually bought into what maria was positing about my own motivations over what i've been pretty plainly and clearly actually saying

[northsidegal]

there is no possible way that you can presume to speak with greater authority on my motivations or my internal thought processes than i can

you do not know me better than i do

you are not some psychic who can read my thoughts and tell that i am somehow lying while knowing my

true

motivations

it's just not true

[northsidegal]

If it was wrong you'd out who you think is scum between stun and kokichi. Don't see that anywhere

if you and rc are town then i trust that your read on kokichi is right. i've been pretty clear on that

[northsidegal]

like if maria has to keep getting jailed until mod comes in and says scum must kill or lynch,

- If nobody dies for 3 consecutive day and night phases, the town will win.

[northsidegal]

VOTE: no-lynch