Newbie 1888 | Stuff I Found Online IV | Over

[Inferno390]

Hoho I get first post
VOTE: xx2008

[Inferno390]

@Mr. Rogers, how are you a newbie when your account was made in 2013?

[Inferno390]

Huh
So why are you so worried about pressure in RVS?

[Inferno390]

I think you’re misinterpreting the use of the word “also” here.
Imo the sentence reads: “I will vote Duck as well because I know the name.” Not “I will vote Duck for this reason in addition to the fact that I know the name.”
I also don’t see what’s so serious about Hugo’s vote. I think it’s pretty clear he’s just throwing a vote around, and as such, would make this NAI.

[Inferno390]

Nice shade.
Am I defending him or am I pointing out the flaws in what you are saying?

[Inferno390]

And this deserves shade because...?

[Inferno390]

So Hugo can defend himself, which by extension means no one else can point out how what you’re saying is not accurate?

[Inferno390]

So in other words, it’s just a RVS vote.
Rogers, I think you’re way overthinking this, and I don’t like that.
P-edit: Okay.
That’s a forced invite.

[Inferno390]

Not only is 36 an incredibly evasive post, but I could hearlily argue that there is nothing natural or flowing about what you are doing this game.

P-edit: Well I don’t like the fact that you’re response to me pointing out the fact that what you were saying was flawed was to shade the frick out of everything I say, but you don’t see me trying to make the things you say look scummy while simultaneously distancing myself from the situation.

[Inferno390]

And how am I aggressive pursuing anything here? I pointed out that there were some flaws in what you were saying. You promptly started shading me. And I’m the one being aggressive?

[Inferno390]

Would you stop it with the fricking shade.
If you think my actions are scummy, just fudging say they’re scummy and explain why.

[Inferno390]

I don't like how you are so agreessively pursuing everything I say while holding your vote on a random person but I don't see how I can stop you since I am assuming it is simply your playstyle.

You are OBVIOUSLY painting my actions as scum here while distancing. I’m not sticking nonexistent motives on you. I’m describing what I see.

[Inferno390]

An edit to a post made in response to someone posting before you.
EX. I’m writing a post and submit it. The forum alerts me that Duck posted while I was writing. Instead of making another post to respond to Duck, I tack a p-edit to the end of it and write it out there before posting.

[Inferno390]

Any reason you are defending him?

This is shade. This is worded in a way to imply that my goal here is defending Hugo. That was NEVER the point of what I was saying.

I don't like how you are so agreessively pursuing everything I say while holding your vote on a random person but I don't see how I can stop you since I am assuming it is simply your playstyle.

Again. Shade. You are shading what I am doing as scummy, while distancing by saying that it could be playstyle.

This is at least the third time you have ascribed motives to myself ragrding yourself that simply do not exist. Do you do this as town too?

“Do you do this as Town too” is so fudging shade it’s ridiculous. The ONLY reason you would word this that way is if you think I’m scum. But you refuse to actually come out and say it or plainly state why you think I’m scum.

You are using technical crap to make me look as scummy as possible, and it’s a load of BS.
I’m not “objectively fabricating” anything. I haven’t given motives for ANYTHING you have done. I’ve just called out your shading crap and told you to knock it off.

This doesn’t come from town. This just doesn’t come from town.
VOTE: Roger

[Inferno390]

We are both accusing ourselves opf the same thing, just in different words. :shrug:

What
Frick no

You are accusing me of making stuff up about your play motivation
I’m saying you’re posts are phrased in such a way as to make me look shitty
Not the same thing

[Inferno390]

I have reread them.
Multiple times.
And if I’m “objectively” defending Hugo, then you are “objectively” shading me.
Except it’s not objective. You’re posts are worded to shade me.

[Inferno390]

And this is the basic misunderstanding that drives your attack.

That’s not a misunderstanding
They are not the same thing
Because I’m not fricking making stuff up like you are accusing me of doing

[Inferno390]

Unless you want to quote your scum meta where you only do this as scum.

Haha
Sucks for you
I don’t have a scum meta

Also I have no idea what this post is supposed to mean

[Inferno390]

I have reread them.
Multiple times.
And if I’m “objectively” defending Hugo, then you are “objectively” shading me.
Except it’s not objective. You’re posts are worded to shade me.

Again, we are both saying the same thing here.

No we are not. How is this in an indication in any way of us saying the same thing?

[Inferno390]

Any reason you are defending him?

Nice shade.
Am I defending him or am I pointing out the flaws in what you are saying?

Objectively you are doing both.

And this deserves shade because...?

Maybe because he can defend himself?

I mean heck
If you weren’t shading me in the first place, why didn’t you say that in response to 23 instead of this?
You are more or less saying you are shading me for “defending” Hugo because you want him to defend himself.

[Inferno390]

How can I not read your posts as a whole when I’m literally in a 1v1 with you.
That makes zero sense.

[Inferno390]

Look, you can't erase the fact that in my notes, you are potentially connected to Hugo here. Is this some kind of massive huge case on both of you that is iron clad evidence etc? No, of course not but if you take the time to understand what I mean by RVS flow and subtle scum hunting, you will clearly see that the timing of your query interfered with a possible read. Is it huge or massive? No but is it noteworthy? Of course and you can't erase it and neither will I, even if you get me lynched over it.

Okay
But this does not necessitate the huge amounts of shade you’ve thrown at me in the last three pages

[Inferno390]

Hey look, if "shading" was a scum claim, nobody would be able to play or scumhunt. I QUERY, you QUERY, we all do. Otherwise how can we strengthen our reads?

Uh
What does that acyronym mean?
I’m ashamed to admit I’ve never seen it before.
And no shading is not a scum claim
But what reason is there for town to do it

[Inferno390]

That logic is so convulted
You’re saying that attacking people is a reaction test?

[Inferno390]

I haven’t said you’re attacking me. I said you are shading me.
There is also a difference in pointing out scummy behavior (what I am doing) and directly attacking someone’s play (what you are saying I am doing)

[Inferno390]

@Duck
Heavy scumlean for now.
Talk to me about that 1v1. What did you come away with from our exchange?

[Inferno390]

@Roger
Are you willfully ignoring the fact that that RVS vote was made on page 1 alone?

[Inferno390]

Hey, XX, while you are at it, do you mind reading the thread and commenting on posts thus far?

I forgot to read the second page.
Now that I've read it, you appear to be constantly attacking inferno, which I agree that this shading makes you seem scummy.

So who has made a mistake, me or Inf?

My RVS vote was simply for whoever last posted in the thread (at least who I thought posted last, because I forgot to read the other pages.) Although you shouldn't go after Inferno right away during RVS.

[Inferno390]

@Roger
Are you willfully ignoring the fact that that RVS vote was made on page 1 alone?

I am willingly scum hunting in the RVS on page 1 alone, thank you very much.

Okay
Let me make this VERY clear
xx2008 said that he voted based on the last person to post ON PAGE 1.
You were the last person to post ON PAGE 1.

Are you starting to see the problem you have with your reasoning in #88?

[Inferno390]

Timestamps:

Post #47 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:57 pm (my post)

Post #48 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:07 pm (Inf's vote post of myself)

Post #49 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:10 pm (XX's vote post of myself)

Hey, XX, while you are at it, do you mind reading the thread and commenting on posts thus far?

I forgot to read the second page.
Now that I've read it, you appear to be constantly attacking inferno, which I agree that this shading makes you seem scummy.

So who has made a mistake, me or Inf?

My RVS vote was simply for whoever last posted in the thread (at least who I thought posted last, because I forgot to read the other pages.) Although you shouldn't go after Inferno right away during RVS.

Maybe because he can defend himself?

[Inferno390]

If this is not clear enough, you accuse xx of lying about his reason for voting because I was the last person who posted.
But xx was clearly referring to the last post ON PAGE 1. Which, wouldn’t you know it, is YOU.

Now you call for xx to be lynched under Lynch All Liars. But he’s obviously not.
Unless you’re going to ignore the explicit evidence otherwise.

[Inferno390]

Fuck guys
I’m doing chores
I don’t have time to keep up with this rn
Everyone cool their jets plz

[Inferno390]

Okay
Skimmed through and going to hit a few points at Robert to get it out of the way.

First
Demanding that no one comment on what you say or point out that what you are saying or doing is wrong other than the person you are directing pressure is unrealistic, unreasonable, and downright frustrating. Stop doing it. Other people are more than allowed to speak up and engage with you if they don’t like your logic/you say something incorrect and call you out on it/talk to you about things you say to other people/etc.

Second
I looked at what you said on your wiki, and that is not okay. You are taking an extremely condescending attitude with those statement, and based on what you are saying your playing experience on this site is, you are in NO position to be making such aggressive and generalized statements. You are here in the newbie queue as a (relatively) new member on the site to learn and improve your game. Not to make these kinds of brash and aggressive system and push your view of the game on other players. I would highly suggest removing this from your wiki, as it’s only going to hurt your long term experience on this site.

Third
As an SE with a number games under my belt, I know from experience that the playstyle you have is extremely detrimental to what you are trying to accomplish. It is abrasive. It is condescending. And it is toxic, not in the sense that you are being flamey and nasty, but in the sense that you are effectively undermining the enjoyment of other players in this game. You are going to hurt yourself in the long run if you continue this behavior on the site. This is a social game. I assume you want to be impactful to town. I get that. The way you are approaching the game is only going to hinder you in that regard. I highly suggest you take a step back to evaluate your play and approach the game from a different angle. If you do this, it will help you immensely.

And I get we are all human and make mistakes. Trust me. This is coming from the player that started on the site with a major problem of spiraling into confbias, tunneling, and generally obnoxious play. But by recognizing where your flaws are working to get over them will make you a better player.

That’s all I have to say on the matter. Doing a little school, then will dig through the thread a little more to see what else I can find.

[Inferno390]

@Roger:
You say you are a newbie with only 2 games.
I am an SE with games in the double digits.
And I’M the one who’s misunderstanding things?

[Inferno390]

So most of the content in this game seems to be the Engaging people and asking them questions to get to the bottom of their motivations is literally what this game is all about, and sometimes people have to be pressed/pushed in order to do that. Sometimes aggression is exactly what is needed in this game to uncover both town and scum.

Thank you sir. If there has been one thing burning in my heart for this town to hear, it is the above quote. Thank you.

The fact that you are taking a tiny part what volxen is saying out of context and warping it to defend your own play is highly concerning.

[Inferno390]

@volxen:
I get the feeling there is some good content in 171, but it’s so long and in-depth that I’m having trouble parsing it. Would you summarize that for me plz?

[Inferno390]

Okay.
As an SE, I am formally telling you to stop.
Your view of Mafia is not the end-all be-all of this game.
I am an SE.
You are a newbie.
If you are going to act like I don’t understand how to play this game and the technical schematics of it, and go over my head with all your “universal Mafia” high and mighty talk, I will pull that card.
You are being condescending and overbearing.
Stop it.
Right now.

[Inferno390]

Duck, speak to me more about your reads.
Why are you getting Town vibes from all these different players?

[Inferno390]

Yeah I meant 181
And I have read it all the way through. I do get the gist of it, that there’s contradiction between things that xx said about his RVS vote and some other things that he did based around that vote. I’m just struggling with the details of what you’re saying, because there’s so much thought packed into that one wallpost.

[Inferno390]

So I’m really behind, and a lot of what has been said in the last 24 hours requires more than just the average skim
I’m going to try and catch up shortly and give some thoughts

[Inferno390]

I have played on this site all the way back to Lamont_Cranston, off and on for very many years but I haven't played Mafia for 5 years and this was the last account I have ever used. I don't use my old alts but they are still like laying around apparently. :shrug:

Wow I so totally agree about RVS. I think I could learn alot from you about it. I learned about it from Mastin (studying his play).

Hold up
If this is true
Did you get special permission to play in Newbie games?

[Inferno390]

Okay
Now that I’ve caught up
Duck is pinging me. There is something tonally off in some of his posts that makes me think somethings up. Then again, I have a bad track record with reading Duck so far, so not sure how to look at that.
Fish is very towny. His questioning is strong, natrual progression and natrual tone, genuinely scumhunting. Classic example of town.
Roger I’m still leaning scum on. I think that he dug way too hard at xx early, and I don’t feel like he ever answered fish’s questions. I mean, obviously there are answers there, but I feel like his responses are really guarded?
What the fudge is up with NK15. Like has been said, 343 is trash, and then the whole “answer my questions or get lynched” followed by that unvote is scummy af. Not liking this enterance.
xx I have mixed feelings about. On one hand, his first posts were tonally off. On the other, the way Rogers beared down on him, combined with the fact that this is his first forum game EVER, has me wondering if it’s just a newbie being put under a lot of pressure right on enterance, especially since his tone has improved in posts since then.

[Inferno390]

Okay
I was about to say, there are rules that you can’t use alts in Newbies, so I wanted to make sure you had gotten cleared by the modding team

[Inferno390]

It’s lunch time in the Land of Make Believe?
Where exactly is this place?

[Inferno390]

- Formerfish's catch-up was really good. He picked up on some pretty nuanced things which is really difficult to fake as scum. He pushed good angles and asked good questions.

I am having SERIOUS problems believing this one. I'd REALLY like to see the specifics on this one. Like give us how this is a townie entrance from him, AT ALL?

Hold up
I said in my catch up post that I thought that fish was very strongly Town. You said nothing.
Duck says it and you say that you don’t think it’s townie at all?
Why does me saying it not get that response, but Duck does?

[Inferno390]

Also, there is something not natrual about the interaction between Duck and Rogers. And the fact that Rogers is refusing to cooperate is really, really scummy.

[Inferno390]

Hugo
What do you think about the current 1v1 between Duck and Rogers?
Is it SvT? Is it TvT? Is it be SvS?

[Inferno390]

377, so after

But this brings up the question, why are you pushing Duck so hard if you’re not even fully caught up?

[Inferno390]

Two top players?
Who’s the other one?

And that’s a really strong statement to be making.

[Inferno390]

Okay
So while I can agre with you tha t former and Duck are probably the vets here, I’m finding 545 (“They literally know every weakness and eploit them on a n instinctive level”) a huge exaggeration. I have play against scum!Duck. Yes, he’s great as scum. Does he do that? No.
And the idea that Duck is being lazy or skating is not true. He’s had some fine posts. Now I am conflicted on him based on some early tone stuff. But this? This looks like scum trying to sell a mislynch.

[Inferno390]

I’m going to lean Town!Duck on this one guys
I’ve played against scum!Duck before
This just doesn’t feel like it
He feels honest and genuine here

[Inferno390]

I think that volxen’s push is okay. Not great, but okay. It feels like he’s got legitimate issues with your play, he’s just failing to look past them to see the bigger picture, If you know what I mean.

[Inferno390]

Heck I guess we will find scum somewhere in [Volx, Worst, Former] (in no particular order). I mean the game is jammed around these 3 people it seems like. :shrug:

I think a daytime cleansing and a night generation would be good for us?

I will simply not lynch Volx today period end of story. Unless something else happens in this thread, I am locked in here.

Are you serious with this?
“A daytime cleansing and a night generation?”
How is this town?

[Inferno390]

Oh yeah I meant to mention this
So TvS == SvT
They both mean one scum, one town
The fact that you are devolving onto this one point is not making you look any better

[Inferno390]

LOL. What? What do you think that post even means? Do you think it means that we do a NL? Of course we don't, not on D1. Otherwise I am describving a normal Mafia day the same as any other.

Yeah, except for the distinction that you are trying to LYNCH FRICKING SCUM
I mean honestly
You can’t just say “ladeeda, gamestate is fuck, lets just lynch whoever and come back to it tomorrow when we have someone dead”
Yes, mislynches happen frequently. But never because there’s a game impasse
You should ALWAYS be shooting to lynch the scum

This is very yuck
Would lynch 10/10

[Inferno390]

The key difference between those two situations is that Fish though he was tunneling scum. He was not lynching for the sake of lynching. Only scum does that.

[Inferno390]

Rogers post feel really fake
It’s like he’s saying two completely different things af the same time
And they contradict
But he doesn’t care
I’m probably not moving my vote for a while

[Inferno390]

Or perhaps
You are the obvscum Rogers for a ridiculous push

[Inferno390]

I’m not sure what you want me to say here guys
The only thing that has been happening in his thread lately is a 1v1 that has degenerated into caught flaily derpscum trying to convince us to lynch Duck.

If you have questions or specific things that you want me to talk about, by all means give them to me
But I have no interest is parsing 7 pages of crappy scum play

[Inferno390]

Then what is it?

[Inferno390]

My preferred lynch would be Rogers, for obvious reasons.

My lynchpool is Rogers, NK15, and XX, most to least left to right. volxen maybe, but only because of the interactions between Roger and Duck and how volxen has been playing out in that. I need to ISO him and get a reread to be sure tho.

[Inferno390]

You are going to have to do better than that if you want to live past today.

I think
You are in no position to be saying such bull considering the position you are in.

[Inferno390]

I’m letting MY ego get in the way?
And you wonder why I’m voting you with that sort of nonsense.

[Inferno390]

Welp
That’s just great

[Inferno390]

Happy scumday btw NK15

[Inferno390]

NOOOOOOOOOOO
my only solid town read!!! T_T

i had a feeling MR was gonna flip town but...no regrets

(yes i know i wasn't on the train)

- MR if you're reading this, sorry! your playstyle attacks the player instead of the slot it's not nice

and yes, xx, having two vanillas dead is way better than us LYNCHING THE TPR d1 like the last newbie game i was in -_- utterly devastating.
also, thank you mod!!! for the flavor. some of these things are incredibly badass.

ANYWAY. what does everyone think about the train on MR? i know 100% there was one scum on there, but i'm wonder if there was TWO..

This feels LAMIST. The whole post taken together pings me, but the two bolded and italicized above feel REALLY off to me considering they’re said in the same breath.

[Inferno390]

@Hugo
Why would you pick me out of the wagon to be scum?

[Inferno390]

Ok
That explanation works for me

[Inferno390]

Hi guys
I just managed to get back on site
How was the game lol

[Inferno390]

Thx!
Duck made me lol hard this game tbh. Super excited to play scum again.

[Inferno390]

Awww I’m blushing