Open 736: Diffusion of Power - Game Over

[implosion]

good morning friends and allies

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Can we kindly spam at a rate less than 1 page/10 minutes.
Thank you!!

A50 is town. Skitter is town. NM is probably town. Penguin was really scummy on page 2, but kind of town on page 3. Creature is theoretically probably town but I never actually learned how his meta actually works.

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I HAVE TO PRESS ENTER LIKE 5 TIMES JESUS

Guys Unvote implosion yallre redicilus

Why should they unvote me?

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Creature is town.

guess we bide time until scum post then.

(by not spamming, of course!)

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That looks almost physically impossible tbh. Not quite but almost.

Penguin, has your meta changed since that mini normal from like two years ago? Say no, please.

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That looks almost physically impossible tbh. Not quite but almost.

Penguin, has your meta changed since that mini normal from like two years ago? Say no, please.

I'd like to further clarify that it is probably actually physically impossible. At least I think most people would agree.

I miss the coherent players.

Maybe you should not-scare-them-away by spamming less!

If you are talking about from our Newbie game...most definitely.

Nah, the mini normal shortly thereafter. The one where I called you town for being disgruntled.

[implosion]

This is Gamma's scum meta, right?

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So love reading players accurately from one post.

to clarify, my post was reaction-testing gamma, and i am eagerly awaiting his well-thought-out reaction to my planned-out reaction test.

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i guess reaction tests are usually accompanied by votes i guess.

VOTE: gamma emerald i guess

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That’s the one with the two ascetics where PP was Deputy right?

Yep.

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what do u think gamma's scum meta is?

idk.

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Dang, buj is indeed scum. Well done creature.

I’ll vote him in like an hour.

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The kind of votes that have been laid down are pretty normal.

PoE is process of elimination.

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VOTE: BuJaber

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a50 you're really tempting me to vote you instead of more-or-less claimed scum. Can you not do that.

[implosion]

Could be good for both of us in future games.

Seems more good for you than for me~

Gamma's town though, idk why penguin thinks that calling someone a LIAR is scummy.

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I think I'd also probably vote Carcalilly at this point, but I don't really understand why BuJaber is still alive

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I think his walking back from it is scummy.

What's his motivation for the big THIS IS A LIE post that draws attention to him and gives you an easy riposte if he's scum?

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I don't agree with PP I think this is actually more indicative of town!NM. Not that I'm super confident of that.

Creature is probably town. Likely skitter and spaghetti also. I am holding off on townreading A50 for now.

Sorry I didn't post earlier I forgot this game already started. I haven't memorized the name/number yet.

I don't like carcalilly's start but then again it seems very ballsy as scum. But having an issue with the implosion votes was really odd.
VOTE: carcalilly

Wishy-washy as hell, in a bad way (actively leaving himself room to flip).
Follows consensus townreads, but says he is "holding off townreading A50" as though the consensus is right about him, but he doesn't want to admit that yet.
Carcalilly's start is scummy but then again it isn't but then again it is. He's scum who wants to call someone scum without drawing that person's ire.
The NM townread also reads poorly, like he wants it to be known that he's going against someone else's opinion and is having original thoughts.

Yeah I think gamma is town. Scum maybe trying to set him up as today's lynch pool. Seems like a stupid fight to pick with PP as scum and also it doesn't feel fake to me.

This line just pings me in so many ways.
"Yeah I think gamma is town" just feels like quintessential scum phrasing.
"Scum maybe trying to set him up as today's lynch pool" is a ridiculous thing to say and as far as I can tell makes literally no sense unless both me and Penguin are scum. Scum don't pick a person on page 8 and say "you know, let's make sure *this* person is in the lynch pool" in a coordinated way, that just isn't how the game of mafia is usually played in practice, and I find it hard to believe that this is a thought that BuJaber genuinely had about the state of the game. Even if he thinks it was only one of us it's just overwrought.

[implosion]

Could be good for both of us in future games.

Seems more good for you than for me~

Gamma's town though, idk why penguin thinks that calling someone a LIAR is scummy.

Are you sure about that?
Upgrading your scum-o-meter is good for you always.
Me learning how to avoid getting scumread by you is only useful in specific scenarios.

It's not upgrading my scum-o-meter to reveal things that are already correct

[implosion]

Thought he could use it as a vehicle to get a wagon on me going but walked it back when he realized it wasn't true.

So I think this is just not especially plausible. I kind of don't think that scum ever genuinely think that they've caught a townie in a lie. If I'm Gamma and I'm scum and I see that you scumread NM here for activity when you've seen him be this active as town, I'm definitely going to point out the contradiction and maybe push you for it, but I don't think I'm going to allcaps accuse you of lying. I think if I'm scum in that situation I'd be expecting you to have some reasonable reaction, since I'd know that you're town, and so I wouldn't expect it to be a free wagon.

Though Gamma could just have a different personality in that way, in theory.

[implosion]

i think this is kinda townie for how self-righteous/outraged he is and like how ... proud (is that the right word?) at having caught pp in what he believes to be a lie

it isn't a lie imo; i think the two of you are remembering the same event differently in some way and/or read the same sentence differently (pp says he never saw nm post this much; gamma says he did in that game but pp says it wasn't in the beginning of the game so the scenario is different; you're defining what 'active' means differently)

Yeah pretty much this.

[implosion]

your organization is very awkward and almost contradictory, but I feel like you're a sort of train-of-thought writer

My turn.. why are you singling me out.. what's your experience with the rest of this playerbase?

People seemed to be scumreading you and I didn't know why. Honest to me you're one of my top town reads in this game by your reactions.
I don't have much experience except a little with Gamma and implosion. They're really hard to read but I don't think gamma is scum.

What reactions specifically and why are they unlikely to come from scum?

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the case on implosion falls apart because you might be scum

It "falls apart" because he "might" be scum????

So at least if one of you flips scum the other is confscum.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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Wait a minute, your case on me fell apart because Gamma might be scum
and if Gamma is scum, then I am confscum
and as a result of all this, your read on me has gone from scum to null?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Please tell me I'm misreading something here.

[implosion]

Now that I know he can do it as scum I can't TR him. So he's null. If he's null then what you did stops being scummy.

I'd be interested if you could show me any meta examples of you doing this kind of super-focused associative reading on day one as town, particularly where you say that one of your reads is completely invalidated because a different read changed.

I'm really, really skeptical of the fact that you're now saying two things:
1) if gamma is scum, then imp is scum
2) because of my previous townread on gamma, i had a scumread on imp
but you're not taking (2) to the logical conclusion of "if gamma is town, then imp is scum".
I don't understand how you can possibly have a nullread on me when you're saying that your previous townread on gamma led you to scumread me (implying that if gamma is town, then i am scum) and you're also saying that if gamma is scum then i am scum. Unless you're going off of some notion that I should have been townreading gamma at that point but the new information you got made it so that I shouldn't have been townreading gamma, which I have even more problems with.

[implosion]

Town
Creature
skitter
A50
Gamma
Carcalilly
Spaghettioso
N_M
Penguin
BuJaber
Scum

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I'm sort of mulling on BuJaber.

Penguin is an okay vote. Lovebird is too.

[implosion]

{Creature, skitter}
{Gamma, Bu}
{PP, NM, Carcasilly} -- Null --
{spagoot}
{Imp}

Postie's reads to date

Mine are like

{M&M}
{Creature, Bujaber}
{Gamma Emerald}
{Carcalilly, Spooghetioso, NM}
{Penguinpower} Null
{Lovebird, Creativemod1, Almost50}
{Skitter30, Implosion}

actually lmao.

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eh i guess it was more of a sustained chuckle.

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I've been really lazy this weekend. Fridays I'm usually pretty lazy and yesterday I was doing other things and didn't really want to spend energy on this game.

I don't know what you mean by "discarding that read" "the moment you replaced in". It was my first post in like two days, and it had been somewhat mulling in my head, and I haven't discarded it, it's just the kind of thing where I'm worried that it's my old mostly-gone bad habit of scumreading poor logic.

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Why is skitter so low?

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Name a couple dislikes.

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lmao.

I don't actually mind any of your other reads, looking at it. I don't even really mind bujaber as strong town. Guess i'll mull some more.

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Having me sorted later in the game ups the odds of you not having to sort me at all because of scum nightkill.
Having me sorted earlier in the game means leashing most-all of the doctors onto protecting me.

with all due respect
no one but you cares as much as you do about ensuring your survival, and i'm sure you'll agree that stepping out of the frame of knowing you're town, having you sorted by a cop early would be pretty handy. I'm not necessarily advocating for that (I don't think it's a good idea at a glance to do anything to try to lead PRs around in this setup) but it's by no means bad from a neutral perspective.

99% of what skitter has said in the past 2 pages reads town to me, with the exception of a line that I think I had been misreading and can't even find on rereading where I thought she was townreading rc in a weird way and I'm not gonna try to keep finding it. I very much buy the way she's insisting this is outside her scumrange. I think most players who commonly talk about themselves as being easy to read are basically incapable of faking the "there's no way I can do this as scum" types of exchanges and it doesn't look bad to me at a glance.

VOTE: PenguinPower

I'm a little tempted to start BoP'ing rc though. But that can come in a few days if he keeps this up.

[implosion]

So if you think that me being town is even in consideration, you're implicitly saying that you agree that Skitter30 is scum.

Skitter... probably isn't scum, just being pocketed tbh

:eyes emoji:

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i'm not pushing a narrative, just calling out bullshit

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To be clear, the bullshit here is you saying "I always get my read on skitter correct by the end of day one, therefore if you currently think i am town, you are obliged to currently think skitter is scum" when it is not yet the end of day one.

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I don't care. You aren't allowed to use explicitly false and misleading rhetoric to push your points, and I'm going to call it out as bullshit if you do.

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we're not lynching anyone for stupid mechanical reasons like that.

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This is quickly turning into a commentary on various forms of government.

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yeah, your claim to be able to meta read me well is why i was surprised to see a scumread on me; it's not a tact that makes much sense for you to take as scum, and I know my play and I'm obvtown here to someone who actually knows my meta. I can't entirely explain the reasons why but I am very confident that someone with an actual correct understanding of my meta will read me correctly in this game.

[implosion]

I honestly just have no interest in engaging with you if you're using intentionally deceitful rhetoric, though. This has nothing to do with you using it to push me; that part is just annoying. It's just not even slightly interesting.

[implosion]

Are you calling me scum or wrong?

I'm not claiming to be able to read you better than random chance.

[implosion]

Here's where I'm at in this game right now.

I still have some degree of townreads on Creature, skitter, Gamma, N_M, and probably Carcalilly though don't ask me to explain that one because it's not solid at all. A50 I really dislike the last few pages of. It feels like he's trying to manipulate the rhetoric of the game in a sort of underhanded way to his advantage and I'm not going to push that at all because it's also very shaky. CreativeMod is probably at least 90% town for the claim in this situation. I don't have a solid scumread that I'm still feeling good about anymore, and need more from BuJaber to evaluate that read more accurately. I think Penguin is a great candidate for scum, though. I think there's a decent chance I'd have townread him by now if he were town. I don't think I have meaningful opinions on anyone else.

[implosion]

Implo's trying to hard not bus because he tried hard bussing last game and I called his teammates out for it

...except i hard townread both of my scumbuddies in that game???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[implosion]

How is this play by RC worth a BoP read?

Because he's claimed to have meta'd me to the point where he shouldn't be reading me wrong, at least this confidently.

This is such a ridiculous tangent it feels like misdirection

It was a joke.

[implosion]

The fact that you're scumreading 567 is ridiculous to the point where it doesn't merit a response.

What's your issue with the other response?

[implosion]

The fact that you're scumreading 567 is ridiculous to the point where it doesn't merit a response.

What's your issue with the other response?

I don’t think having an off read is something that necessitates a BoP lynch. It warrants skepticism yes, but autolynching for that is a bad call. Me and MariaR have a good history of reading each other but MariaR also has a precedent of messing up sometimes, that doesn’t mean she’s scum for it.

Does it look like I'm autolynching RC????

[implosion]

It looks like that’s what you’re calling for

who am i voting atm

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it's almost like i wrote that i was close to doing it, but not at that point yet, and then didn't do it (yet)!

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It's just weird to say that I'm calling for it when I am not calling for it.

[implosion]

To explain exactly why it's BoP-worthy, Gamma, since RC touched on it but you might have missed it:
in a freshly completed game, I was scum and RC was town (both of us in from the beginning), and RC hard tunneled me and made this claim:

or

crazy suggestion

take the time to do a deep meta dive, look for tells that I'm not aware of, and use them to read me.

kind of like what I did with implosion, or with LLD, or with various other people who I wanted to be able to read consistently for various different reasons

The biggest reason that I'm disinclined from straight BoP scumreading RC is that he's been explicit here that he might be wrong; while there's an element there that's sort of weird, in that other game, he initially was deathtunneling a team of me + skitter, but eventually completely rescinded the read on skitter based on her reactions. And if he's town, there's a solid chance he does the same here, even though I'm baseline skeptical that he has this read on me as town.

At that point in that game I bought that RC had a way of reliably reading me, because I knew I'd done a number of things in that game that I'm bad about avoiding as scum, and that I was definitely very solidly readable as scum to someone who knows my meta well enough. This is why I was surprised when RC replaced in here and immediately put me at the bottom of his reads list; it theoretically shouldn't happen if he's town (unless he just got at least a small amount lucky in scumreading me in that other game, which I didn't think was the case) because I've played my town meta pretty clearly in this game. And it didn't seem like something RC-scum would have much incentive to do, as he'd know I'd immediately be skeptical of him after that game, and I don't see much reason for him to draw that ire.

Despite him saying his read is 80%, I'm honestly still expecting him to flip it, whether he is town or scum. If he is town and doesn't flip his read then it's honestly kind of surprising given that I thought his read on me in that game was legitimate.

[implosion]

I kind of want to talk more about A50 as well.

Also, the reaction from implosion to me voting him is more likely to come from town than scum. He didn't even bother ask me for a case, which means he either doesn't care of is reading with comprehension.

This is kind of a really shitty line. I think this way of commenting on a reaction is scummy; not 100% sure why.

576 also rings bells, particularly the line

Let's play chicken. Let's see if RC drives this lynch home.

Why do you mention that as town? Why does town not post the exact same post, minus this line? I find it sort of hard to believe that he genuinely thinks he's going to "call RC's bluff" as well. It could be pompousness as town but it feels like sort of an attempt to react to RC scumreading in a way that looks good.

[implosion]

Penguin's ISO is also just so much more chaff than I remember. Even his content posts are kind of just chaff. I don't like that he asked me why BuJaber was scum, I gave him a pretty substantive early case type thing in response, and he didn't even acknowledge it. Feels like posturing to make it look like he's trying to gamesolve and/or work with me when he isn't.

[implosion]

Looking forward to your meaningfully engaging with the game, Penguin.

[implosion]

I didn't acknowledge his post on Bu because I was mostly absent since Friday eve, and he should be keenly aware of that. For him to derive posturing from an absence from the game is a fake push.

You asked at 12:05.
I responded at 12:13.
You posted again at 12:22, 12:24 and then 4:21, in no case acknowledging my quick response to you.

[implosion]

ofc, implosion takes him from scum in 331 to town in 541 despite no change in playstyle or content.

Uh. I don't mention N_M in the second post you listed? Is that the wrong post? There is another post where I call him town so I'll assume you mean that one.

In the first post he isn't really scum. You were null to me at that point, everyone above you in the list was some degree of town, N_M the weakest. I see that isn't clear, but it's why I called N_M "still town" in the later post where I called him town. I still had some sentiment at that point from 95 (which was semisarcastic but had some degree of reflecting how I felt at that point).

[implosion]

I will agree though that my N_M townread isn't really justified and I really have little investment in it right now. But your scumread also makes basically no sense.

[implosion]

You're not conftown.

[implosion]

Again, stop using intentionally deceitful rhetoric. And if you are town, change your goddamn read on me. I've given you way more than what you should need to.

[implosion]

I meant your scumread on nm makes no sense.

[implosion]

And I’ll also echo a50s sentiment that I signed up to play mafia, not rc solitaire.

If you’re so convinced I’m scum feel free to lead on me, but the game isn’t going to revolve around solely you.

[implosion]

Neat.

I'm willing to swing Gamma potentially because I don't think I've actually ever seen him as scum. At least I can certainly be persuaded on it. I don't know how reading him works.

[implosion]

This however is pure horseshit. Just because he has no meta of scum!me he’s willing to follow onto the read, without even saying much wrt actual meta thoughts on me. And even with that he isn’t voting, which feels like he is testing the waters.

I'm not saying I'm gonna blindly sheep, I'm saying I'm open to being convinced by someone with better meta knowledge than me.

[implosion]

Unvote

[implosion]

@CreativeMod1: I would support the sentiment that you should definitely check music & mail tonight. I don't trust anyone here to read the slot accurately; RadiantCowbells is well known for being very difficult to read.

---

So I'm now uninterested in a Penguin lynch. I also pretty much see BuJaber town at this point.

Still unsold on Gamma, though. There's no one I especially feel like voting at the moment.

I do want to make sure everyone is on the same page with regards to the night plan at this point: if CM1 dies, we 100% snap lynch music & mail, no questions asked. If music & mail dies, we 100% snap lynch Almost50, no questions asked. There are no objections to either of those, right? Just want them to be very explicit.

[implosion]

What if I said I didn’t want to check M&M?? What if I say I have a strong town-read on them, now who would people offer up?

I would say you shouldn't trust that townread, because he's well-known for being extremely difficult to read well.

I don't care if it's not what you want to hear; it's the answer. I personally wouldn't call you scum for not checking them but I would still push for it.

[implosion]

Townslips definitely happen. They're faked sometimes, but they happen.

[implosion]

The fact that they can sometimes be real and sometimes be faked really make them mean nothing outside the newbie queue unless it’s some major thing that I can’t even think of right now.

It's just like any other tell. Just because they're sometimes real and sometimes fake, doesn't mean you can't speculate on whether they're real or fake. I've locktowned slots that I had no read on prior based on them (granted there's only one example I always think of for this, and it was a new player, but it was in a mini normal). And pointing them out is often indicative as well.

[implosion]

Or RC is town and you're scum and implo's ass is scum and

Skitter... probably isn't scum

, just being pocketed tbh but I feel like it would have made it easier to push yall by saying she was scum but okay.

wow, your tune changed pretty fast

Why do you make a point of this? His tune changed on you pretty fast in sneks.

And yeah I'm willing to call CM1 >99% town.

[implosion]

VOTE: Carcalilly

[implosion]

Better question: has he ever done anything right?

[implosion]

To clarify, my comment was a jab; I currently have a wishy-washy townread on penguin.

[implosion]

What if Penguin is town who's trying to lure the mafia into a false sense of security by falsely admitting that he's mafia?

[implosion]

meh i'll probably vote gamma in like 3 days to make rc suffer

[implosion]

do i mean 3 days later into day 1, 3 rl days after we quicklynch someone else so that it's early d2, or 3 days as in day 4?

Only time will tell; i will reveal the answer in 2 days.

[implosion]

can't we just lynch a50

we get the best of both worlds, a scum lynch and rc getting shot night 1

[implosion]

no no don't actually do that

[implosion]

it turned out the scumteam was creature/bujaber/spooghetioso all along

[implosion]

I actually think that I think that A50 is the scummiest person in this game right now. I'm not 100% sure that I do actually think that, but I suspect that I do.

[implosion]

A50 I have the real solve and I need to know I'll be alive tomorrow to give it out
If you're doing any sort of WIFOM around the doc claim say so now

lol

[implosion]

I do not understand why you might think I'm bluffing here,

3- As town I could be a N1 Doctor, or I could be a N4 Doctor. I could even be a N2 Cop aiming to survive until I do get my night of action. That means scum won't trust my claim anyway as I'm known to do bluffs.

[implosion]

1- I am not lying about me being a N1 Doctor.

like, i was strongly not expecting to see this sentence.

[implosion]

skitter I'm pretty sure you already answered this so feel free to just point out that you have (i'm too lazy to search your iso atm) - how, as precisely as you can, would scum-you have reacted to RC's pressure, instead of doing the stuff that you said scum-you is incapable of doing?

[implosion]

Carcalilly what do you think is the best way to get an accurate read on you?

[implosion]

I’ll only claim at l-1 for good reasons

hoo boy, it's the infamous half-claim

love me some half-claims.

[implosion]

idk what about carcalilly's reaction looks townish, the entire thing looks null, like i believe she thought she was hammered but that is still completely null

[implosion]

Actually fuck it nah

creativemod1 check Implo for me to confirm that he's scum

don't trust you guys to sheep me even with a confirmation that i'm town.

this post is potentially the single scummiest post in this game, by the way. There's no reason to set up this sequence of doc and cop claims and then recant and have them split up; it's anti-town, he knows it's anti-town, and if rc is scum he knows that by far the best way for him to win this game is for him to not get copped.

I have sort of been putting reading him very far on the back burner, as carcalilly pointed out about me and others, because I don't think I can read him accurately and he was likely going to be copped. But if he isn't going to be copped I am actually open to lynching him; the state of the game makes more sense in a lot of ways if he's scum, and his trajectory of being this confident on this many people in the way and order that he has is probably more likely to come from scum, though there were some other things from him I thought were weakly town.

[implosion]

If cm1 wants to cop me ultimately i'm mostly okay with it though i don't trust my reads in this game especially strongly right now save a few townreads.

[implosion]

And I don't have the energy to fight you, so let's just ignore each others' posts if that's the game you're going to play.

[implosion]

Penguin, what's the state of your read on me right now? What do you think the state of my read on you should be?

[implosion]

when ellitool was all the rage I designed my own. I used it on exactly 6 people, Implosion is one of them. what makes him scum is the overappearance of certain words in his ISO.

hahahahaahahahahahahaha.

[implosion]

VOTE: Music and Mail

[implosion]

i'm trying to make a reads list but my reads are actually pretty shit.

It comes down to my townreads being CM1 > skitter > Creature > BuJaber, and not having any reliable townreads after that anymore. RC's case on gamma kind of killed my townread on him a bit and I am not really sure how he reacts as either alignment and I don't know how to read into the replacement request. I consistently feel like I want to question my penguin read in both directions. Ditto carcalilly. I have no idea how to read spooghetioso. I have no idea how to read not_mafia. I have no idea how to read the lovebird slot. I have no concrete idea how to read RC from what he says other than his reads being shit. And A50 gives me really big tonal pings with everything he's saying but i also feel like I can't invest into thinking about his slot too much right now.

It's kind of shitty and I need skitter to dialogue with me. Or one of my other townreads.

[implosion]

Or penguin. If penguin could take a minute and be serious and actually level with me that would probably be really useful.

[implosion]

what sudden implosion change rc's read on me has been consistent from minute one

[implosion]

what sudden implosion change rc's read on me has been consistent from minute one

Either you have memory loss or you’re lying

I’m sorry implosion I’m really tired that’s sarcasm correct?

L Y I N G

[implosion]

it's a problem that i only feel like doing anything when rc is pretending to scumread me.

[implosion]

I'm willing to go for spoogh.

[implosion]

spoog is an enigma.

What's your townset at right now, skitter?

[implosion]

ok

RC
Skitter
Creature
Carcalilly
Almost50
Bujaber
Creativemod1
Implosion

that's the townblock from now on

What if anything here do you have an issue with implo

Besides me obviously

commitment

[implosion]

the real answer is a50 trepidation and slight carca trepidation but not big carca trepidation.

[implosion]

30% is a pretty damn massive exaggeration.

I'm pretty sure I could consistently read you at a rate higher than that without ever looking at a single one of your posts by reading other slots and playing the numbers game.

[implosion]

(probably not much higher but etc)

[implosion]

no thank you.

[implosion]

actually thinking about how it works more it probably isn't quite true since the math doesn't let you say "these three slots are 99% town so the chance that slot-i-can't-read is scum is now up to 3 in 9" i think. It's a little subtle.

[implosion]

honestly i don't think that this percentage convo is super edifying or useful

it certainly isn't!

i'm still going to have it at people though

[implosion]

rc if it makes you feel better i put you at a solid 30% chance of being scum atm

[implosion]

no one's going to give a shit next time either of you call me scum.

the thing about giving a 30% scumread is that if I'm wrong, I don't actually lose a large amount of credibility if i call you scum more strongly in a future game.

the flip side is of I'm right, I also don't gain a large amount of credibility.

[implosion]

It's enough for me to discredit you in future games as either alignment. which I will do. if you want your read to be taken seriously start correctly townreading me first.
which was the advantage firebringer had, that he usually correctly read me as town so his scumread meant something.

Again, I appreciate the misleading rhetoric of pretending this game is already flipped with you as town - nicely done. But yeah, I recognize this entire thing is just you being rhetorical, and that's fine. If you are town then a sample size = 1, almost-zilch-above-baseline-level-of-confidence incorrect scumread is ultimately pretty meaningless, and I know you know that. And Idk if I'll really wind up playing enough games with you in a short enough timespan for that sample size to become meaningful.

I'm pretty sure I have like one completed game with you where i was town, that was like 2-3 years ago lol. I went back and looked out of curiosity and actually there's some perhaps sage advice to be gleaned there. You replaced in and I initially misread you as scum (it looks like it was partially a PoE read, and partially an actual play-based scumread) on the day you replaced in, then on that day we lynched a traitor (leaving 1 scum alive) and overnight I correctly read you as town based on associatives from the traitor and I roleblocked the last scum.

[implosion]

also this lovely fuckin' gem of a 2016 quote.

And @rc no hard feelings about anything, it's a game, I don't think it's really worth being hard on oneself over mafia pretty much ever.

[implosion]

I may not always hit scum but I'm usually pretty obvtown.

Which is nice as well

omg omg omg omg omg omg omg omg omg omg OH MY GOD i am fucking dying

[implosion]

Is spoog really a better lynch than nick cage? I feel like he might do something to make himself more readable later more likely than that slot.

[implosion]

I’m not exactly saying I’m wiser, I just simply want to get discussion on who should be checked based on who people think are scum, is that really so much to ask?

I understand this, but you've gotten that discussion, and I don't think anyone has expressed an opinion other than copping M&M.

RC, walk me a bit through the internals of your change on skitter. Did you initially read her reaction to you as townish? If so then what was the process of reconsidering it? If not, then what have you changed your mind on being townish/why were you faking a townread?

[implosion]

I'm personally not planning to sheep you blindly when you're conftown and I doubt most of the rest of the town is either, so. I know that makes the game the best for you, but it doesn't make it interesting for anyone else. I know fypov that can be an annoying thing to hear when the last game i played as scum my tact was literally to appeal to everyone except you in the game to not listen to you, but again, i'm here to play mafia, not to watch you play solitaire.

I am definitely willing to reconsider skitter though.

From my impression of last game, basically, her reaction to you was something like:
1) "Oh boy this will be fun" followed by a big wall in reaction to your big wall on her,
2) scumreading you because she said it looked like you were setting up associatives between me and her in a scummy way
3) continuing to interact with you as you continued calling her scum with me
4) eventually you explicitly state your scumread on her has gone away

Which part of this sequence do you think she's failed to fake accurately here? All of it, or is some specific part of her reaction particularly damning?

[implosion]

well the what was to try to narrow down which part of her play this game you think is most elucidating on her being scum.

[implosion]

if we've established that I can incorrectly scumread her as town initially, why does she freak out because I'm incorrectly scumreading her?

this is a pretty good point.

[implosion]

just be content that no matter what you do in your career you will never top elli in turn of camn

[implosion]

but the sheer joy of watching a town slowly dismantle itself before the infamous unreadable aristophanes scumgame

[implosion]

man, i should get hard meta scumread by people more often. I seem to have a tendency to win my scumgames a lot more often when that happens.

[implosion]

i think so

[implosion]

yeah not really buying skitter scum tbh

[implosion]

Spoogh, can you list off all of the people that you'd be pretty confident saying are town right now?

[implosion]

as far as I can tell, the only plausible way for skitter to be scum is if she has an extremely, extremely strong genuine misunderstanding of her own scumgame.

I guess I should ask her for a piece of representative scum meta where she reacted poorly to someone pushing her.

[implosion]

I think the idea that if I don't want to be copped I'm scum is fucking hilarious and shows a complete lack of empathy.

this is a pretty shitty strawman.

[implosion]

you using strawman arguments isn't scummy, it's just a piece of your MO of carefully using rhetoric to push points. Just like me being reasonable in sneks didn't make me town.

And my read on you is unchanged. And no, I'm not going to "call you" scum, because I'm nowhere near confident enough for it to be prudent to strongly voice my opinion on you as i am on other people, and I probably never will be anywhere near that level of confidence until PoE time much much later (under the assumption you aren't copped).

[implosion]

I don't think I've mentioned this btw, but I really don't buy the argument that Spoogh potentially lying about level of experience/anything else can be alignment-indicative here. It's possible that they're putting on an act to a degree but I don't think that there's much reasonable chance that they decided to put on that act specifically after seeing a scum role PM.

[implosion]

I don't mean that description as criticism.

Tossing around what Nick Cage's post means. The phrasing and structure of the post feel somewhat townish but I don't really like the "he's changing his reads a lot without explanation, so scum" insinuation. It's an easy thing to latch onto as scum and it's usually a bad reason to push someone.

Yeah i'm trying to draw blood from a stone

[implosion]

yeah not really buying skitter scum tbh

On contrary to you, every time she posts there's always something that's making me think maybe I spoke too soon and maybe RC is right!

Do go on.

[implosion]

Atypical mafia-administrative context-transcendent drivel.

[implosion]

VOTE: Nicholas Cage

[implosion]

and bujaber you dont need to defend me its okay if m and m thinks i am mafia i get it i am new i know that i am bad and probably deserve to die at some point

this is like, town though, right?

[implosion]

i think my gun-to-my-head scumteam at this moment in time is nic cage, a50, not_mafia.

[implosion]

the question was at everyone else about you, not at you.

[implosion]

N2 Doc. Lynch me if you're an idiot.

[implosion]

Jesus guys what’s the vote count now

also is nobody going to comment on my marvelous mnmcmod theory

it's a bad theory bc cmod's claim is really, really clearly town given the absence of scum daytalk.

[implosion]

I actually can buy gamma for potential scum atm. One of those opinions that flickers a lot though.

[implosion]

Mmm don’t like the outrage given he’s the Open listmod and would know a claim wouldn’t really do anything for him

This is kind of a weird thing to say.

You don't buy the

outrage

because as the open listmod he should know it's not a smart thing to do.

Isn't that the whole point of outrage?

[implosion]

Strong disagree that penguin's claim was scummy. N2 doc is one of the

least

scummy things you can claim at this point in the game; it makes you look somewhat bad if you're alive tomorrow, *and* it has the potential for people trying to leash you and restrict your actions more. The scummiest thing you could claim at this point is probably something like somewhere between n2-n4 cop because it would give people incentive to leave you alive until that point.

RC is being an idiot. If he is town, at least.

I think penguin's claim is a moderately strong towntell for him. It's not something that you're supposed to look at with logic like whoever it was was trying to do.

[implosion]

(and right now i think penguin has very strong odds of flipping town)

[implosion]

Okay so reads wise, I feel like M&M is town so I’m not gonna bother with the check on that and I’m gonna check A50
If A50 is town then A50 protect M&M and M&M protect me

Is that a lynch now on penguin?

If you aren't investigating M&M, for the love of god, don't out your investigation target now and then tell the doctors to do what they were doing before -_-

scum will have the option of just shooting your investigation target if they're town.

[implosion]

dude that's so bad though. Like that completely destroys the entire reason we came up with this plan.

[implosion]

It's fine that you trust your own reads. But please, please just don't ANNOUNCE that you're going to target A50 if you feel that way.

[implosion]

rc are your reads as town actually this garbage

[implosion]

serious question. How frequently are your reads really, really bad?

[implosion]

also, skitter is conftown, and she's calling me town!

so you have to call me town too!

[implosion]

which reads are you talking about?

no i don't skitter literally cannot read you

penguin, me, skitter, and likely gamma

[implosion]

and i swear to god, if you try to backtrack on the fact that you were definitively scumreading skitter at one point, i will never unvote you.

[implosion]

lynching penguin after fucking with the plan is actually so bad, because now we have RC, alive on d2, not confirmed town, without any of the usual information that we would potentially get from RC being alive on d2. Though I doubt scum had any desire to kill him with how bad his reads are.

The skitter check is also irritatingly useless to me.

I'm, at this point, incredibly skeptical of RC-town given the opening today. I've incredibly skeptical of his being willing to lynch Penguin on a knee-jerk reaction after his n2 doc claim; RC should have been easily able to see that it was a significant towntell, and should have been able to see that it was absolutely not the kind of thing you lynch someone after they do because they're probably going to spew themself as town even more when they're back in the game. Pushing the penguin wagon after it is really scummy from him.

Right now I'm sitting at M&M/A50/NC as scum, with N_M and Gamma as the most likely substitutes, vaguely.

[implosion]

I'd like the people townreading Almost50 to explain why, because I get seriously bad vibes from him. I can try to look into them more deeply but so much of what he's said sounds tonally completely wrong.

[implosion]

Btw, I'm an informed townie. I know this game is single ball and the scum team is of 3 members. There are probably many 1-shot investigatives and many 1-shot protectors. I won't crumb/hint my role. Let's just call say I'm basically a VT starting D2 (and will still get shot anyway).

Signed: Dr.Monkey

Guess this is prob why Almost50 is town

This, for instance, isn't a good enough reason. A50 is plenty good enough to make this opening post as scum. There's the doc claim, sure, but I'm really skeptical of writing him off as town for a claim because last time I did that I mishammered at 3p lylo because of it. He knows how to fakeclaim as scum. And it's not an inconvenient claim as scum, since all it does in practice is potentially leash your n1 kill away from someone.

[implosion]

I am pretty sure I'm the sole person in this Plist with experience with bujaber.

He was killed because he was unlynchable because of the meta I had on him.

or literally everyone was calling him strong town????????

[implosion]

idk why it looks weird he was pretty universally townread and his reads might have been good too though idr what they were.

What would be a not-weird kill to you, a50?

[implosion]

A50, I still want an answer to this:

What would be a not-weird kill to you, a50?

Why is BuJaber a weird kill?

I've tossed it around a bit more and I think Carcalilly is actually a very good candidate for scum. A team of e.g. NC/Carca/{A50/M&M} explains the nightkill very succinctly fmpov, and carcalilly's vote on the Penguin wagon is actually terrible. This followed by this to L-1 Penguin just looks so much like posturing. 1623 can also easily be scum Carca->scum NC. I don't think they kill BuJaber last night unless some of his reads are right; NC probably isn't enough. If NC is scum without gamma or Carcalilly, most likely, I get shot last night instead. I think that's mostly true regardless of who's scum. Unless they specifically caught a cop crumb from BuJ or something but that's remote enough to discount.

BuJ's relevant dying reads were basically a bottom tier of me/gamma/carca, and a second-bottom tier of spoogh/NC with NC moving down further later because of what happened with him and Penguin. I don't think Spoogh is scum and I sort of doubt 1 scum in that list gets BuJ killed when he's a slot that hasn't been especially vocal in the most recent part of the day imo. But it is always possible that he was just shot for being near-universal townread.

I like Gamma's mention that BuJ dying screwed with his reads; he hadn't really talked a lot about his BuJaber read in isolation that much recently but it looks consistent with how he had been approaching the game, e.g. saying that he thought BuJ might be trying to tie me to him as scum with me. I still think he's town, though it's a weaker read than most at this point. Spoogh I can't strongly remember why I thought his stuff yesterday was moderately town near the end. But I think carca/NC almost certainly has at least 1 and very likely 2 scum.

The other interesting thing about the end of yesterday is the wagon structure; it was skitter as the only one off both dueling wagons, with the NC wagon being composed of Penguin/me/a50/buj/creature, with the middle 3 votes being all in a row. That says fmpov most likely either a50 or NC is scum (still gonna assume Creature is town), since I doubt scum feel much need to drive the Penguin wagon to the degree that they would have had to if all three of them were on it and NC was town. Carca's vote in particular, again, looks very, very suspicious; when she voted, the wagons were 5-5, with just her, CM1, and skitter left to vote. Her vote, and more than that her asking Gamma who he thinks she should vote looks an awful lot like scum pushing the dueling wagons on town/scum toward the mislynch at a critical moment, and looking for justification to not make it look like they are doing that. The asking gamma who she thinks she should vote really, really looks bad the more that I think about it. It's a psychological out, it's scum who wants to absolve themself of being responsible for the mislynch when there was a lynch on scum available.

[implosion]

Really interested in thoughts on the above particularly from skitter, creature, gamma, and almost50.

Particularly from a50, would you agree with the point that wagon structure from a neutral pov points to at least one scum in {you, me, NC}?

[implosion]

Sweet.

Let’s not hammer until everyone posts. Also don’t let her self hammer. We could have another n1 cop.

[implosion]

awesome, we're mostly on the same page.

[implosion]

hey can you unvote for the reasons already stated ty

[implosion]

Implo did his 100% scumtell on the last page
He is now treated as confirmed scum.

His partner is never outside of {gamma NM nic}

lol

Carcasilly is scum

I'm N1 cop

VOTE: Carcasilly

lol

lol

[implosion]

can't we just lynch a50

we get the best of both worlds, a scum lynch and rc getting shot night 1

Implosion reaction to RC saying to Lynch in Gamma/Carca

Hey wait a second
Yeah we're actually... Not lynching Carcalilly today legit.

I think there's a nonzero possibility that NM is scum guiltying town to waste a day phase and get me killed before I can push gamma and implo through

that post is incredibly clearly sarcasm in context and it's frankly hilarious that you're insinuating it isn't.

[implosion]

If anyone finds literally anything RC is posting right now about me convincing, please let me know because he's basically doing a Gish Gallop, an intellectually dishonest exercise in sophistry.

[implosion]

To be clear I can show that every single thing RC is saying about me is specious.

I'm just not going to unless people ask me to because I want the game to be playable and not clogged with back-and-forth bullshit, and I think most of it is very obviously specious without me needing to reply.

[implosion]

It was referenced in multiple past games including Sneks and Noodles.

this is a lie; sneks is the first game i've played with RC (to my knowledge) in over 2 years. I could be forgetting one.

You will also note that Implosion is not calling me scum,

This is also a lie; i am not calling RC 100% scum, because I don't trust him as town as much as he does. But I've made it very abundantly clear today that he's one of my two most likely candidates for scum with carcalilly+NC.

As town he asks to get copped to get me to fuck off of him

This is RC projecting his own personality onto me. I would be happy to be copped here but I don't particularly care about it if other people don't buy RC's bullshit (which I will argue against as much as is necessary), because I don't agree with the premise that RC is more important of a player than anyone else in this game.

or asks for me to get copped because there is no way that he thinks that I'm scum right now.

This is absolutely ridiculous given how consistently I'd been pushing for RC to be copped yesterday; I would still push for that. I would be slightly worried because again, I think there is a chance RC is town who is putting stock into this tell that might be real, but that I might have happened to break this game; if this is the case then a cop on RC is bad news if Gamma is also town, because it will lead to RC wantonly mislynching me and Gamma back to back.

I'd also like to point out how ridiculously ironic it is that RC is complaining he's going to be the night two kill after helping lead a lynch on a night two doctor.

[implosion]

If anyone finds literally anything RC is posting right now about me convincing, please let me know because he's basically doing a Gish Gallop, an intellectually dishonest exercise in sophistry.

Is he scum for it tho :O
I had to deal with that in my very first game here, and I thought it was scum but it was just tunneling town
Shade noted though.

He is probably scum, but not specifically for the way he's arguing. Like I've mentioned RC will use sophistry to his advantage when he thinks it's useful as both town and scum. The reason he's probably scum here is his reads.

I'm pointing out that it's a Gish Gallop because it's ridiculously agitating to see misleading rhetorical tactics used against me, and I need other people to understand that what RC is doing right now is a rhetorical tact designed to make it onerous for me to respond accurately.

[implosion]

You will also note that Implosion is not calling me scum, just discrediting my read.
He is fully aware that my read on him is 100% effective.

Why does he do that as town? Answer: he doesn't. As town he asks to get copped to get me to fuck off of him or asks for me to get copped because there is no way that he thinks that I'm scum right now.
But as scum? Calling me scum does nothing, he's going for the kill on me either way and if it gets stopped it's just game over for him. Discrediting my read on him is sufficient for his purposes as scum and it's what he's doing.

And that’s why I said shade noted
VOTE: implosion
We’re still probably lynching Carca but I want my vote on scum in the meantime

How is it shade when I have explicitly said I think he's probably scum, with specific reasoning?

[implosion]

(granted, since that post I downgraded it to a 50/50 between him and a50, but that has changed since he started claiming a 100% read on me; I just haven't been particularly vocal because i'm still at work, and should really stop letting this bullshit distract me)

[implosion]

i probably would if i were scum, tbh.

[implosion]

"it's perfectly possible"

????????????????

[implosion]

Also Idk if this is a good tell or not but I think implosion has a, to plagiarize another medium, “refreshing as a spring breeze” attitude as town, that he lacks here

this is pretty true in the general case.

RC has completely killed it in this game.

[implosion]

For a50/gamma/anyone else other than RC who feels like voting me, I'm happy to do any or all of the following:

-explain in intricate detail how my reaction to RC in this game is different from my reaction to RC in sneks, and how this is indicative of me being town in this game;
-explain in intricate detail why everything RC has said against me in his latest tirade is inaccurate;
-explain why skitter's townread on me in this game should be trusted more than her townread on me in past games where I was scum;
-explain how my play in this game is night-and-day different from, say, Floral mafia, the game where Creature, as town, instantly pegged me as scum and had me at the bottom of his reads list until I was lynched d1, and ergo why Creature's early read of my play in this game as completely different from my scumgame should be trusted;
-give a more in-depth analysis of the prospect of NC+Carcalilly as scum;
-give a read on RC's posting today in terms of his alignment;
etc, etc.

[implosion]

As for skitter:

i've already said who i want to lynch today: rc, nicholas cage, possibly nm, i'm low-key thinking that carca should be saved for tomorrow tbh given that she did claim n2 cop; readswise i'm not entirely sure how i feel about her reaction yet

I'm happy to lynch RC or NC. I think it's fine to save Carca for tomorrow; this also gives N_M a chance to recant if he is town fakeclaiming. Which I'm a little concerned about but am probably fine with just ignoring the possibility of.

i don't particularly believe this claim coming from you

i think you have a fairly large amount of scum equity

and checking carca people is kinda ???

It is possible that he's making the play to trade himself for a mislynch + a n2 cop investigation. But BuJaber dying lends at least some credence to Carca-scum over N_M-scum.

@implosion: Why are you calling on me specifically when you're SRing me anyway? I'll switch back to Carca (correct play for today) if you can explain why you care about my read on you.

A few reasons; 1, I think that dialogue with you is decently likely to be productive if you are town. 2, I think your answer to "are you willing to agree that this set of three people including you and me has scum in it" has potential to be telling (which is why I specifically asked that earlier); 3, as I mentioned, since RC claimed a 100% scumtell on me my suspicion of him over you has (hopefully understandably) increased. I also think your push on cmod is probably coming from town, though I don't agree with it in the slightest.

[implosion]

To be clear, the way I view the 100% scumtell thing is as three possibilities.

1, RC is scum and is lying about the scumtell having occurred. Of course, this is the simplest explanation fmpov.
2, RC is scum and there actually is a thing that he thought before this game was a 100% scumtell on me that I actually did do, and he saw that and now knows as a result that it isn't actually a 100% scumtell, but is pushing because he can off of it. This isn't really meaningfully different from #1 for the purpose of this game.
3, RC is town. I'm going to assume he isn't flatly lying about the 100% scumtell having occurred, because of his comment earlier in this game about him making it clear when he is intending to do a death push/claim a fake guilty on someone. Which means that it would have had to occur and RC is just misreading it, and because of it and because of his pre-existing incorrect scumread on me/lack of a concrete townread, he's viewing the other things that I'm doing now through a biased lens.

3 is a fair bit less believable than 1.

[implosion]

Like Implo

Why wouldn't gamma/carca/nc be right?

I disagree gamma is scummy at this point. It could be correct, and I've made it clear that I think it could be when earlier today I listed Gamma as being on the likelier end of substitutes in the first scumteam I proposed.

I have 0 faith in your reads this game if you are town, however, and so I have really no interest in listening to you on gamma if you are town.

[implosion]

To be clear, that first scumteam was:

Right now I'm sitting at M&M/A50/NC as scum, with N_M and Gamma as the most likely substitutes, vaguely.

and since then obviously I'm scumreading carcalilly and i don't think N_M is particularly viable as scum if carca is scum.

[implosion]

(And I'm also townreading A50 more than I was then based on that last page that you nicely poisoned the well for any opinion I could give on - well done!)

[implosion]

I'm not agreeing to anything based on what you're saying.

You're 1 out of 13 players in this game. Live with it.

[implosion]

Like Implo

Why wouldn't gamma/carca/nc be right?

The other problem with RC saying this to me is that it is dismissive of the fact that RC knows that if that is the scumteam, then he has singlehandedly made this game impossible for me to play as town. He's claiming to have a 100% scumread on me, and is then asking me why I'm not considering a scumteam without him on it.

That is ridiculously intellectually dishonest.

[implosion]

I'm going to try to not open this game at work tomorrow, because having to deal with RC's constant stream of bullshit has fucked with my ability to focus on anything else. I'm saying this in thread because if I only say it to myself I probably won't stick to it.

[implosion]

I think it's fine to save Carca for tomorrow;

Interesting! It looks like the game has changed considerably in the past few hours. Back in my days we used to lynch guilties more often, but now I see several people calling guilty to be spared!

Would you care to explain why?

1, scum are all goons; so long as we lynch scum, it doesn't matter which one we lynch. 2, it's at least somewhat feasible that scum-N_M would want to lead this lynch today to deprive the town of a claimed cop shot, as I mentioned, trading his life for a mislynch and a cop shot. It's reasonable to hedge against that by lynching Carcalilly tomorrow so that if N_M is scum, we get Carcalilly's result confirmed as she dies.

In a world where there's a 100% chance that Carcalilly is scum I don't think there's reason not to lynch her today. I absolutely maintain we should lynch her before N_M, and tomorrow at the latest.

implosion keeps taking a moral high ground of RC being “intellectually dishonest” I notice

I have, and have repeatedly given extensive justification of why I've taken that stance.

[implosion]

VOTE: Nicholas Cage

skitter, I think you're overestimating the likeliness of Carcalilly being town. But it's not really important either way.

[implosion]

1- What happens if Carca lives through N2 and declares M&M guilty at the start of D3? What would you do then?

Now that skitter has answered.

What is the goal of asking skitter this question? It seems like a really obvious answer (lynching carca in this situation means either a scum lynch or two confirmed scum), and is a strange thing to ask skitter in particular.

[implosion]

i see.

[implosion]

Can I ask...why on earth are people wanting to lynch outside of Carca today?

See 2002. Though I agree with skitter that it doesn't matter too much and it's reasonably fine to lynch her today as well.

hey implosion do you think i'm likely to get nk'd in the not-too-distant future?

Depends on how many doctors there are (i.e., if the setup is 6 doctors and 4 cops, scum knowing that might be more loathe to shoot you). You're obviously mechanically the best person to shoot as an unclaimed cop clear. Also depends on scum's read of the gamestate. If they think there are no more night 2 doctors, there's a solid chance they try to shoot you tonight.

[implosion]

I can understand you not giving him influence
but you just saying "nuh-uh I'm not investigating him!" day 1 and now explicitly telling Docs to stay off him is quite suspect imo.

so er
you think it's scummy that
(1) he wanted control over his own cop shot, and
(2) he is advocating for doctors not to protect someone who has claimed a now-useless role?
How is that scummy? How is that scum-motivated? How is the simpler explanation not just that CM1 is town who is annoyed at M&M trying to be the singular central figure in the game?

[implosion]

I like how Carca isn't even pretending to have read the thread as outed scum but still somehow isn't lynched yet

I know we all want to be the dopest town that found all the best scum but at some point all the little sheep will come back and we will lynch Carca

Why not do something in the mean time? I'm calling for your lynch and you've said you don't like me as scum. skitter said she's fine with you or Carca and she's the cop inno. Why aren't you either trying to fight that pressure, or demonstrate that you're town via actively scumhunting?

[implosion]

I like how Carca isn't even pretending to have read the thread as outed scum but still somehow isn't lynched yet

I know we all want to be the dopest town that found all the best scum but at some point all the little sheep will come back and we will lynch Carca

Why not do something in the mean time? I'm calling for your lynch and you've said you don't like me as scum. skitter said she's fine with you or Carca and she's the cop inno. Why aren't you either trying to fight that pressure, or demonstrate that you're town via actively scumhunting?

i kinda got the vibe that the purpose of 2076 was to show everyone just how strongly he scumreads carca; if she flips scum i think he's trying to distance there

i mean i agree, but~~~~~

[implosion]

Fascinating.

skitter is now bona fide confirmed town; if she were scum, then CM + Carca + 1 of this new conflict would have to be scum, which is obviously impossible.

If Gamma is indeed town then that spoogh check is possibly game-winning.

My immediate guess would be that remaining scum are spoogh+NC.

[implosion]

Only got a couple mins before going back to work but something to take into mind is that we have 4 docs claimed (including dead) and 4 cops now claimed, 5 unclaimed (1 of which is my innocent)

I think it’s best to lynch the guilty for now and then look into the other claims

This is slightly incorrect because one of the people you're counting as unclaimed is the flipped scum. Ignoring Carca, we have:

4 claimed doctors (a50, M&M, Creature, Penguin)
4 claimed cops (CM1, N_M, Gamma, BuJaber)
4 unclaimed (me, skitter, Spoogh, NC)

I don't think it's beneficial to massclaim yet. It's possible that gamma+Spoogh are both scum in principal, but I don't think this is the tact they'd take if they were; why wouldn't they have Spoogh claim a guilty on Gamma instead of the other way around? I don't *think* there's a lot of prudence in Gamma fakeclaiming cop here as scum, given that if he is scum, he knows there's still at least one cop out there (possibly up to 3, but he'd know the specific number) who could potentially induce autowin by finding the other scum, since we have two mislynches. Which is why I'm inclined to believe it.

[implosion]

I think it'd be good for Spooghetioso to claim, probably. Mostly bc I want to run him up today.

[implosion]

i want to be on the wagon this time :X

VOTE: Spoogh

Don't especially care if the wagon gets hammered. Pretty much expect spoogh to flip scum. If they are town, their claim doesn't really matter all that much, I think I'd still want to go for them even if they claim e.g. n3 cop. I'm flying to the east coast tomorrow for a work trip for the week, so I'll be pseudo-V/LA until Friday but I don't really expect it to affect activity.

[implosion]

This is Gamma's scum meta, right?

Also in hindsight I feel like this is rather questionable. I went back to Mini 1996 to try to remember if I’d actually had something good to sort implosion by there (I didn’t), and my opening was rather similar. Curious if Creature picked up on this since he was also in that game.

My post here was nearly completely facetious, basically a way of drumming up conversation on you.

This is Gamma's scum meta, right?

Not sure, but his only post seems indeed bad.

So love reading players accurately from one post.

to clarify, my post was reaction-testing gamma, and i am eagerly awaiting his well-thought-out reaction to my planned-out reaction test.

And why say this when the person hasn’t posted yet? It comes off as not really caring.

You're historically really bad at reading irony >_>

This post is again completely tongue-in-cheek. Why not say that? It is somewhat uncaring. I don't really care about seeing your reaction to that "reaction test" vs seeing your reaction to me calling my own post a reaction test. Both of them are going to get you to say some stuff. Neither has a grand plan of how to evaluate what you say as townish or scummy.

I HAVE TO PRESS ENTER LIKE 5 TIMES JESUS

Guys Unvote implosion yallre redicilus

VOTE: implosion

I was mainly looking for posts by suspects but yeah this kinda points to implosion

Noticing an agenda from Carcalilly to shade town

So assuming the underlying narrative here is "Carcalilly was shading townies but defended implosion, so implosion is probably scum", that's a really bad narrative. Scum don't go into a game saying "I'm going to defend all my buddies, and shade as many townies as I can." They shade who they think they can get away with shading or who they think they'll get towncred for shading, and they defend buddies or townies who they think they can either tie to them or get credit for correctly defending. Scum are not going to throw shade in all their interactions with townies because they were throwing shade at some; it's the opposite, they're going to attack some and defend others.

Carca's defense of me is definitely something that can be read into; but she doesn't really have a ton of motive to defend me there in the situation where we're both scum, imo. Scum (most scum, at least) are going to be extremely loathe to make a post that early that strong-ties them to an actual scumbuddy; decrying an RVS wagon on town is not a difficult thing to do, on the other hand.

Could be good for both of us in future games.

Seems more good for you than for me~

Gamma's town though, idk why penguin thinks that calling someone a LIAR is scummy.

Ok so what made you think I was Town at this point? You hadn’t responded to me responding to the reaction test thing. So why the town read?

So, once more.
I am being tongue-in-cheek here, to a big extent, especially because I have a very tongue-in-cheek rapport with penguin.
That said... I literally answered your question here in the post I made five minutes later?

Gamma, what do you think of Nick Cage as a prospect for remaining scum?

[implosion]

i am here and reading do not worry

You should claim what your role is.

[implosion]

I still just don’t see motivation for gamma to claim here if he’s scum and spoogh is town.

[implosion]

Given how you couldn’t swing me or him yesterday and he could have shot you last night if that were the case, I’m very skeptical of that.

The only way it makes sense at all is if you or a50 is scum who told him to do it as a way to catapult you to endgame but that’s kind of far fetched I think. I could maybe see it with you.

[implosion]

I also don’t remember the reasons for thinking spoogh was town off the top of my head.

And like fucking everyone was willing to lynch outside of the guilty yesterday.

[implosion]

W/e. It’s not an important point. The more important one is it makes way more sense for him to just shoot you if he’s that afraid of you specifically. That might not be true if he was afraid of creature too though.

[implosion]

Not true. But okay.

[implosion]

no quicklynch etc

[implosion]

Skitter town
A50 town
NM spewed town by Spoogh ISO imo if he wasn't cleared already
CreativeMod1 town

leftovers
Spoogh
M&M
Implo
NC

think NC has the highest equity followed by implo (obviously), if there's a cop on any of the 3 of us including me I'm willing to call this solved at this point

I agree with this, modulo a small amount of a50 paranoia. But it is small.