Newbie 1903 | Stuff I Found Online Vii | Over

[LCpl Jones]

hiiiiii

first!

VOTE: naturalbreadcrumbs

I don't like breadcrumbs, they get stuck in my throat and make me cough

[LCpl Jones]

How can you boy someone withiout a post?

VOTE: Jonesy

sounds like you are familiar with dads army?

[LCpl Jones]

@all new players
don't worry too much about making mistakes, just play and have fun

We usually start here on this site with a period called RVS (random voting stage), where people place semi-random votes. Since we are in a low-info stage, the reactions / interactions around these votes are the best way to get the game going.

[LCpl Jones]

@rcenigma

care to share?

[LCpl Jones]

Discussing jumping questions for the board an to provide info for true newbs. All slots kindly answer.

1. What is your experience at Mafia
2. How do you play as town
3. How do you play as scum
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town

1. Two games on an old account, two games on this, and a hydra game (3 scum / 2 town). 2-3 games on other sites too

2. Not that well... I do my best but I don't work well in a low-info environment. I just post what enters my head tbh.

3. My favourite mode - I usually am townread (don't ask me why!). I basically look friendly and helpful while making minor pushes, trying to look non-blatantly obv!town, etc. I'm more careful with what I post.

4. if you see someone contradicting themselves / changing their story chances are its scum. I don't do associations much, as I never can see them till hindsight but I try to look at motivations. Finally, I think wagons / VCA (vote count analysis) is a very useful tool. e.g. that person who is not voting all day before hammering is definitely scummy.

[LCpl Jones]

VOTE: Jones because didn't use an emote

But I did

Where did I not?

@teacher, are two votes even concerning at this stage? I agree maybe L-2 or -1 is but why does this look like possible scum weak wagon building to you?

[LCpl Jones]

VOTE: Jones because didn't use an emote

But I did

Where did I not?

@teacher, are two votes even concerning at this stage? I agree maybe L-2 or -1 is but why does this look like possible scum weak wagon building to you?

Why are you defending yourself against a RvS vote??

Why should I not?

[LCpl Jones]

VOTE: Snowbeast

The case is actually good too.

You convinced me.

VOTE: snowbeast.

Thanks for replacing and welcome.

I don't really like this vote. Let us just say...

I did give it slight slight scum points for being a very early second vote without any reasons OR a joke - one that could be explained easily as RVS but also grabs an earlier/explainable place on a possible wagon.

[LCpl Jones]

hiiiiii

first!

VOTE: naturalbreadcrumbs

I don't like breadcrumbs, they get stuck in my throat and make me cough

Hey man, look at my name! I'm all-natural breadcrumbs. And as we all know, anything that's natural is good for your body, unlike those nasty "chemicals" or whatsits those damn eggheads always go on about

That's good - all organic I hope?
UNVOTE:

[LCpl Jones]

Discussing jumping questions for the board an to provide info for true newbs. All slots kindly answer.

1. What is your experience at Mafia
2. How do you play as town
3. How do you play as scum
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town

1. 1 game - lynched day 1 as doc
2. To win
3. To win
4. Not keeping a straight story

Ok so your experience does come into play but not because you would be an easy push, I have no problem pushing on the IC as either alignment. If you would like to look over newbie games where I've done so I don't mind linking them.

Now initially I didn't like the particular questions Teacher posed.
A.) It could easily be a gauge of what players are looking for in particular when scumhunting in order to avoid certain tells.
B.) Scum don't have to put any effort into answering any of these because each question is objective. All in all nothing alignment indicative.

It's also busy work but that's either alignment as well. However it does generate content so, fine. I wasn't going to answer them initially but I figured I could work with it, I have a feeling Teacher was looking for something in particular with his choice of questions.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. My thing with those questions:- it allows people to use self-meta without openly doing it. Like, natural says he is very talkative as town and comes in being very talkative. Also, those questions don't really get anywhere AI that I can see - I think they benefit scum more than town.

I'm not seeing why you townread Teacher based on that though?

This is a serious vote based on reasons expressed in this post and his vote on snowread

VOTE: Teacher



pediatric, and now when you're called out on it, it's something you were doing to see if anyone caught on to it? I'm not buying that, sorry. Your posts also reads to me as scum trying to pocket me ('wins the town prize').


[1]pocketing - when scum reads someone as town to psychologically look town to that person. That's how I understand it, sorry if it's wrong

[LCpl Jones]

@teacher you based in the Americas? Trying to work out time zones.
It's going on 9pm here.

Uk time here

[LCpl Jones]

Teacher is observing the game in a similar manner to myself and I know my alignment.

You are buddying him really hard though. Very interesting.

I don't think scum RC does this though. I was scum with him recently, and he basically put me at null iirc as opposed to here where he has a strong townread on teacher. He's also much more active here than there. I wouldn't say he couldn't be scum, but I don't think so.

[LCpl Jones]

What post number are you talking about? I'm afraid I'm not seeing that anywhere?

[LCpl Jones]

Discussing jumping questions for the board an to provide info for true newbs. All slots kindly answer.

1. What is your experience at Mafia
2. How do you play as town
3. How do you play as scum
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town

1. 1 game - lynched day 1 as doc
2. To win
3. To win
4. Not keeping a straight story

Ok so your experience does come into play but not because you would be an easy push, I have no problem pushing on the IC as either alignment. If you would like to look over newbie games where I've done so I don't mind linking them.

Now initially I didn't like the particular questions Teacher posed.
A.) It could easily be a gauge of what players are looking for in particular when scumhunting in order to avoid certain tells.
B.) Scum don't have to put any effort into answering any of these because each question is objective. All in all nothing alignment indicative.

It's also busy work but that's either alignment as well. However it does generate content so, fine. I wasn't going to answer them initially but I figured I could work with it, I have a feeling Teacher was looking for something in particular with his choice of questions.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. My thing with those questions:- it allows people to use self-meta without openly doing it. Like, natural says he is very talkative as town and comes in being very talkative. Also, those questions don't really get anywhere AI that I can see - I think they benefit scum more than town.

I'm not seeing why you townread Teacher based on that though?

This is a serious vote based on reasons expressed in this post

and his vote on snowread

VOTE: Teacher



pediatric, and now when you're called out on it, it's something you were doing to see if anyone caught on to it? I'm not buying that, sorry. Your posts also reads to me as scum trying to pocket me ('wins the town prize').


[1]pocketing - when scum reads someone as town to psychologically look town to that person. That's how I understand it, sorry if it's wrong

I'm a little curious why this stood out to you? It seemed to me like normal RVS behavior to see how a replacement player reacted to some instant pressure.

My specific problem with his vote was his lack of consistency. In 27 he says, ' I did give it slight slight scum points for being a very early second vote without any reasons OR a joke - one that could be explained easily as RVS but also grabs an earlier/explainable place on a possible wagon.'

In the next post he does exactly that in his vote on snow. I also do not believe his reasoning in his reply to my vote - that he was looking for someone who would pick up on that, and the tone of his response to me sounds like buddying / pocketing.

[LCpl Jones]

Also, in line with what Jones is talking about, why would you post a post that specifically does something that you said was slightly scummy in order to see if anyone caught on to the inconsistency? How does that help us?

That's another thing I forgot to mention. He says I win the 'town prize' because I noticed what he did. But why wouldn't scum!me notice it and comment on it to gain town!credit? Why wouldn't scum me push him on it to get him lynched? Conversely why wouldn't town!me also pick up on it? What I'm saying is that this is all WIFOM. He can't really say I'm town or scum because of it as it's AAI [1]. His entire logic is wrong here, and it sounds like a really weak excuse.


AAI = any alignment indicative... if you never heard of it before that's because I just made it up right now

[LCpl Jones]

Also, in line with what Jones is talking about, why would you post a post that specifically does something that you said was slightly scummy in order to see if anyone caught on to the inconsistency? How does that help us?

It doesnt help you. It helps me. It plants a seed someone

should

find. I can award the person finding it townie points. TBH, I was hoping it wouldnt be an SE.

Yes, but why does it make that person who finds it towny? I'm not seeing the relation there.

[LCpl Jones]

pediatric

You called a teacher pedantic (Im assuming that was the typo?) like thats a bad thing

Yeah, meant to be pedit

[LCpl Jones]

rn nobody is really scumpinging me apart from teacher
RCE is a fairly strong townread given he's totally different to his scum game with me apart from a rather strange case on snow which I didn't think was that scummy
Overkill, by gut I'm going to say probably inexperienced town
breadcrumbs is also town imo, I like his posts
I like skitter's entrance to the game too, so town as well

[LCpl Jones]

having a look at this game I guess one needs to remove the emotion of being voted for and rather look at how they can rather benefit the town in play.

Two ways to look at it in my opinion.

Those who are very vocal about their reads of who is who are either concerned townies or mafia wanting to get some heat off their backs.
For now I am reading them as concerned townies.

My main concern are the people who are not very active. It's almost as if they are hiding from sight so they don't peak on anybodies radar.
I guess this thinking is the same thinking that got me voted for.
Fair play.

I don't have much to offer at night, but I would certainly like to assist more during the day.

As it is now Monday I will start watching who does not post much during the next couple of days and build a case off that.

I must say this is kind of LAMIST [1] though.

[1]Look at me: I'm so town!

[LCpl Jones]

@overkill, the vote being scummy was because it was weak, could be explained as a RVS joke, and a few other things. I'm not sure I like your vote.

VOTE: Overkill

Your vote is scummy in different ways to Teacher's. It's scummy because you seem to be looking for any excuse to vote someone (opportunism), not voting him because you think he is scum. Therefore you are likely scum, and if you are teacher is likely town.

[LCpl Jones]

Sorry for being inactive today - rather busy. I should be back tomorrow.

I'm happy with an overkill lynch as he's the only one really jumping out scum ATM.



I'm a bit concerned about it being so fast comparatively though. Lack of opposition to the lynch could mean scum are happy with it too - i.e. he is town. But I think overkill has a >50% chance of flipping scum anyway...

[LCpl Jones]

VOTE: 0verki11

From RCE's post among others, I think the votes are there for a functional lynch. I certainly think we are going to get intent and a claim. So now I will talk about why I think 0verki11 and snowy may be a team. Its the snowy VT soft in 115 plus:

Just leave me, I dont think ive ever played a town game where D1 I havent been a little lynchbaity, it will improve D2

I viewed this as a PR soft. I thought both players softing some town role in such quick succession was something that was likely discussed in the mafia PT, since neither soft seemed really necessary at the time.

The possibility that Jonesy saw 0verki11's soft and then used his vote to slingshot onto a PR is the one narrative Ive been referring to when discussing whether he is scum. Im inclined to believe that is not the case, in part because my "quick succession" posts last night was designed to see how others' read 117, and RCE didnt pick up on it when hinted at again. So Im stuck with my more likely theory, that scum!0verki11 and snowy decided to soft together.

Take all this with a grain of salt. I've never before named a complete scumteam D1, so I may very well be wrong. The IC in me also wants to add that it is ordinarily poor play to openly speculate on PRs. I am only doing so here and now because I think we likely get to the point of claims with 0verki11.

No, I didn't notice that ... If so, I'd view it more as a fakeclaim crumb than anything. What I thought was this was an example of ATE (appeal to emotion) which confirmed my impression that he was scum.

[LCpl Jones]

that scum may not have a lot of impact/influence over the gamestate rn, and overkill/snow kinda fit that description

Ordinarily the lack of a counter wagon and the ease with which we are getting a majority on overkill would strongly influence me right now to push back. But I’m inclined to agree with this here.

Looks like we think alike

[LCpl Jones]

I'm here, my post didnt reflect.

I have been on the road a bit - away from the game but in my head I have been thinking.
I'm not 100% sold on random lynches - it decreases the towns chance, however it also shows who is maf as they (I would assume) would want to push a vote on a townie.

I wont vote overkill until I have read all I have missed

I'm also here - I think plotinus might have missed our last posts...?

I'm not sure I agree with you here. On day 1 a random lynch barring anyone slipping is about the best you'll get. If you can get a few towns and lynch the scummiest person remaining, then there is a much greater chance of correctly lynching.

I also don't see who was proposing a truly random lynch...?

[LCpl Jones]

Claim. Intent has been posted. You’ve softed enough anyways that “scum” already knows

Ehh, was worth a try, im VT lmao.

Was trying to bait a nightkill onto me, if that wasnt obvious, and im leaving the motive of it at that.

I'm not sure what to think of this. I don't like your PR softing, while in contrast I can see your claimed motive for it as being true...

[LCpl Jones]

Claim. Intent has been posted. You’ve softed enough anyways that “scum” already knows

Ehh, was worth a try, im VT lmao.

Nvm then, if you flip green I’m leaning against teacher.

This post feels wired to me ...
I think I need to unvote and reread thespio
UNVOTE:

[LCpl Jones]

Spoiler:

Thespio voting Jones the way he did in post 11combined with his reason being false to begin with, though I wanrted to see who pointed it out.

I mean, it was RVS, I could have voted because my left elbow was itchy, im not sure how you think you got so much out of no one actually clashing in any way? So you tr teacher because you have similar views on arbitrary things? this seems odd to me.

Is there a particular reason you dislike Teacher being read as town?

I just dont read an ic or se as town very easily they have the advantage of being in a teaching position. He could spend the whole game talking about prior experiences to avoid actually talking about the game. Also votes from RVS are arbitrary, unless you think Lcnl Jones is scummy because he voted based on texture and mess in RVS. Now if i voted for the same reason rn I think it would be scummy. I am curious who benefits by discussion of earlier games more though, IYO who does that help?

Teacher is observing the game in a similar manner to myself and I know my alignment.

You are buddying him really hard though. Very interesting.

Teacher is observing the game in a similar manner to myself and I know my alignment.

You are buddying him really hard though. Very interesting.

I don't think scum RC does this though. I was scum with him recently, and he basically put me at null iirc as opposed to here where he has a strong townread on teacher. He's also much more active here than there. I wouldn't say he couldn't be scum, but I don't think so.

Wifom as far as why he would do anything but in your game did he get a Tr on anyone based on rvs?

So hear me out here, just want all your opinions on this, I’m currently scum leaning on RCE but assuming he is just saying I think we’re simmiliar then the most beneficial thing for teacher if he was scum would be for them to lean into this idea that they are similar, this would let him pick up a townie and he could attempt to shift suspicion off of their pocketed townie to gain their trust. At the time there wasn’t really any pressure on teacher so they didn’t have to worry about us flipping on them. But now teacher is trying to justify their interactions and even more he strait up says he thinks it’s weird how similar they are. Meanwhile I think the rest of us are like ‘wtf are they talking about?’

Currently feel this makes teacher scum and a hard lean with RCL
VOTE: Teacher

I still think the fact that i call a wagon on RCE and he leans away, then teacher starts to lean away when they were just complimenting each other. Someone explain the snowbeast case. Lay it out for me, because the 9 posts make me see possible scumlurking but not much more

Snowbeast comes in with a very awkward repeat of Roo's post and a lackluster response to the last question which didn't give the town impression I was looking for when compared to the rest of the slots answers.

Snowbeast stuck out for his answers not being short but being awkward. I purposefully put forth jokish answers to the middle questions and light effort in the last. At the very least to convey what my mindset will and should be

This is your case? all of it? He has 9 posts, like i said, i think he could be scum lurking* (sorry if anything is weird im using my phone) but i dont see him masterminding some plot, or even really playing. let alone playing scum. Why dont you think its teacher? you dont think its weird he leaned into your buddying and complimented you? because a scum lurking case is stronger?

None of my case was predicated on snow lurking. YOUR suspicions hinge on scum lurking. I don't think Snowbeast is masterminding anything, that was a throwaway line to lead into YOUR read on Teacher.

If you put those two snippets back into their context it explains: Motivations, agendas compared against each other, Thought processes etc. Think of the beginning of my post in 40 as a syllabus and use it to determine what I got out of the posts leading up to 40 and what I was looking for within the criteria I laid out.

riiiight, so my case against teacher, and my read on you dont predicate on scumlurking, youre suspicions, in context, make no sense beyond 'I didnt like his history post' and 'he had awkward posts' both of which can be explained with lack of experience and a lack of commitment to the game. so my concern is that you are pretending you have this case when you are really just pushing a policy lynch.

You were until today under the same case, which you believe is more solid then the weird buddying thing that was going on with you two. Either of you can be town, but watching you keep saying that you are similar and then me pointing out its weird and having you backtrack. then having teacher lean further in and back track. its all susp.

You being all buddy buddy

Teacher and I are on the same wavelength at the moment. I don't see him pocketing an SE over a newbie but I'm not convinced in that.

Teacher is observing the game in a similar manner to myself and I know my alignment.

I point out that its wierd how he and you are acting

o yes I am very cognizant of what Teacher is doing in relation to my slot. With that in mind I an evaluating both a world that he is scum trying to pocket me and a world where he is town reading the game in the same way I am. I lean to the latter but that doesn't mean I've ruled out Teacher being scum 4 pages in.

its shift that makes me uncomfortable, you have such a hard time evaluating him, and hes not even defending himself, then we got you jumping through his hoops. then its pointed out and you step back and tell us you are evaluating him.

Everything is straitforward youre just trying to dodge actually evaluating anything.

VOTE: RCE

No, it's more like you won't be satisfied unless I call him scum. I don't think he is. I think the likelihood of Teacher being scum here shrinks the more that you try to press that narrative.

I can evaluate without tipping him off to that fact, which is why I said I was waiting for his read on Roo despite myself having that same read. To see if we are sharing the same mindset or if Teacher was placating me. That was evaluating his slot. I am well within my rights to evaluate both my scum reads and my town reads to assess their motivations at any stage in the game.

How are you a SE slot? Are you scum reading me? Otherwise you getting more set is surprising. As an SE explain the logic here. Also he just posted, he ignored your req.

Teacher already responded to the Roo question if that's what you mean. I wasn't scumreading you but if you aren't willing to evaluate the things that or going on or actually read what people are posting then yes I'm inclined to believe it's scummy.

Ok, I’m thoroughly convinced you would have changed your story at some point in this spat and you haven’t. I still feel like one of you would have been scum, not sold on teacher. Idk about overkill that’s where I would like to look to next.

VOTE: UNVOTE

Edited so the automated vote counter can understand: UNVOTE: --P

Skitter, teacher said something about second votes being scummy and then was a second vote on a wagon in his next.
VOTE: Teacher

This is the saddest vote ever. Im unsure of what to do with it.

If Overkill flipped scum i would assume that their scum buddy was one of the recent replacees, and that they are new playing scum. Thats all i get out of that weak vote.

i'm thinking he probably isn't scum with teacher

Im betting your right, so either hes scum or teacher is, they are mutually exclusive in my mind at this point

Intent to Hammer

On to you Overki11

I did post intent, if your claiming a Pr since it’s d1 I would be in favor of lynching someone else.

I did post intent, if your claiming a Pr since it’s d1 I would be in favor of lynching someone else.

You really sure you want me to claim?
Also we have 3 days left so we shouldnt be in an hurry.

No, I’m telling you if you don’t want to I’m fine waiting until D2 for a claim.

Claim. Intent has been posted. You’ve softed enough anyways that “scum” already knows

Ehh, was worth a try, im VT lmao.

Nvm then, if you flip green I’m leaning against teacher.

i think the concern was not the logic of 0veri11-me polarity, but rather the somewhat lining-up-lynches subtext which can be scummy.

I could die tonight, want to make sure my voice carries to tomorrow, when im off work ill go into detail into my reads thus far

hey rce you want to vote thespio with me?

i feel like this could be a good wagon

I am all for pressure, but this ^ sketches me out a little. If you read me scum just vote me, ask me what you want to know, but the idea you are shopping for a good wagon comes across scummy to me.

1) skitter30
Scumlean

I find that they identify pocketing as something that they do when some and then having them comment on teacher buddying RCL as susp as a flag for me. Then we have their proposition for a wagon rather then posting their opinion and then pushing like town ought to.

2) Roo

Town Lean

I feel like Roo has been constructive, nothing to crazy.

3) naturalbreadcrumbs0.5

Nuetral/Town

The V/LA messes with this one, but I believe they are likely town based on what theyve posted while they were active

4) snowbeast1 replaces RainZI
Nuetral/Scum

I feel like the scum vibe i get might just be the fact they are new, but I'm leaning towards nuetral

5) 0verki11
Scum

I do think based on my experience with overkill they come across grossly scum earlygame. The lack of explanation for their actions makes it look like they dont have any reason for what they do which i read as scum. I bought teachers explanation on this in #219, even though i sr him the explanation given makes sense.

Dont really buy the claim at this point

6) RCEnigma (SE)
Town

My push on RCE leaves me satisfied that they are not scum, If they had given more insight to the game, and I felt like they had more information then town should at this point I would have read them scum, but I didnt so I am satisfied with my call.

7) LCpl Jones (SE)

Townlean/neutral

I feel like hes constructive, playing like town would in my mind so i lean town with jones.

8) teacher (IC)
Scum/nuetral

this is becoming more neutral, i saw their point with overkill which is why i pushed them. Its also why i said i would flip to teacher day 2 ig if overkill had flipped green. I think the way handled RCE, and the way they seem to try to shift things urks me. I would like pressure here but I think others tr him too hard.

idk i think it'll be more effective at this stage in the day if there were more than one vote on you

i'm not asking for permission, i'm trying to find out if he's willing to help me make a wagon because me and my one vote doesn't do all that much by itself

but sure, i'll start it now

VOTE: thespio

I mean I get that, I feel like dropping your reason, then voting, and later asking for a wagon would make more sense. To me this looks like you are pocketing RCE, when i was on him you were defending him, when teacher was trying to buddy him you pointed it out with me, when you want to vote someone you ask if they do too. Seems odd.

can you explain a little more why you think teacher is scum in the event overkill is town? i'm not super following your logic

Yeah, I see his logic of scum not having an impact and overkill/snowbeast matching this. I see this as being correct rn, but if one of them flipped green it would lead me to believe that scum knows they could get a ml by portraying this. Thus if he was scum he could come into this playing low key and putting it on new players.

But your scumread on teacher and overkill being pressured or offered as the lynch are unrelated.

Anyways, what do you think about the lack of a counterwagon?

I guess that’s what irked me about teacher at that point, the lack of counter wagon is and can be due to a weak mafia but also could be because the target is weak town, newbie town. I’m not predefined teacher over overkill though at this point, simply feel that the comment he made could indicate he is scum letting this wagon go but only if overkill is green.

If they were active I would get into it with them like I did with RCE

Im your counterwagon to 0verki11, and youve made repeated posts about why you scum me. Why havent you tried to "get into it" with me to sort me?

I may :p I’m just going to have to look at your other games to see your playstyle.

Any chance we can have a Monday deadline given Skitter's VLA and weekends generally? FWIW, that would make it eight days since all slots showed up. Thanks, and total understanding, either way.

Gonna be honest though, I see this as Pro Town, like strong protown. I can scrap with you if you want, there were scummy things I saw in the past, but because teacher proposed we extend time Im gonna town lean, it turns my initial fears. He pushed Overkill and if teacher was scum he could have pushed to end Overkill by EoD, If he was partnered with Overkill he could have pushed away from him and let the time stay short to keep it urgent or gone for a nk, which is actually better for scum d1 in my opinion due to the ratios.

Here's my read on Teacher.

So what I noticed was that his entire first part of the ISO right up to post 143 is all about RCE / teacher apart from his two RVS posts. He launched right in about this. In 60 he says he has a hard time reading teaching positions as town as they can influence people. I find that more of an excuse than a reason. I think looking at 60 he almost certainly planned to push the IC or SE and this is him giving an excuse for it. That looks scummy to me as if so he is not scumhunting but playing to an agenda.

Second thing, in 148 everything changes. He goes from hard pushing RCE and teacher to backing off. This shows to me he wasn't scumhunting but pushing them for a scum agenda, i.e. he wasn't seriously scumreading them because he knew they weren't scum. I have a thought maybe the other scum player in this case could have told him to back off (maybe even RCE or teacher), but that can wait till day 2.

Next,

Apologies for the long delay, but RL just got very very busy. I might end replacing out... I'll hold out if I can.

[LCpl Jones]

Oops, hit submit instead of preview. Will finish the post now

[LCpl Jones]

Anyway, in 165-200 he switched to overkill, and in fact posts intent to hammer. I'm not scum reading this for changing his mind but this feels a bit suspicious, since he just went from full blast RCE / teacher to hammering overkill in 4 posts. I also find it interesting that he says overkill or teacher are mutually exclusive. I find the tone of that post vaguely TMI.


I find 231 very wired, if overkill was a PR scum would just kill him tonight and he wouldn't be able to claim tomorrow. it reads a lot like or hunting, and now that he has found a PR he is willing to get back off (and thus get town credit).

On that topic I find his reads list suspicious. Notice that RCE is town and teacher is back towards neutral. See above.
And finally his thirding the motion to extend the day could be an attempt to gain towncred especially in light of 312.

All in all can anyone tell me if thespian is at l-1? If not I'm putting my vote there ASAP!

[LCpl Jones]

Anyway, in 165-200 he switched to overkill, and in fact posts intent to hammer. I'm not scum reading this for changing his mind but this feels a bit suspicious, since he just went from full blast RCE / teacher to hammering overkill in 4 posts. I also find it interesting that he says overkill or teacher are mutually exclusive. I find the tone of that post vaguely TMI.


I find 231 very wired, if overkill was a PR scum would just kill him tonight and he wouldn't be able to claim tomorrow. it reads a lot like or hunting, and now that he has found a PR he is willing to get back off (and thus get town credit).

On that topic I find his reads list suspicious. Notice that RCE is town and teacher is back towards neutral. See above.
And finally his thirding the motion to extend the day could be an attempt to gain towncred especially in light of 312.

All in all can anyone tell me if thespian is at l-1? If not I'm putting my vote there ASAP!

VOTE: Jones

This is just too offputting, Crumbs is new, so ill write his sort of wierd reason for thinking im scum off to that, but Jones's reason doesnt address why hes leaving OverKill, doesnt actually make any sense in retrospect and leads me to believe the reason we havent had alot with him is because hes trying to glide by in the foreground.

Im still leaning towards OK, but this case leads to so many questions.

That's just blatant omgus and shade throwing.

It feels like a scum reaction imo.

[LCpl Jones]

That's just blatant omgus and shade throwing.

It feels like a scum reaction imo.

Answer my questions please.

Why did you shift off of Overkill?
Why is applying pressure scummy?
why is recognizing someone as town scummy?
Why did you have the same reads as me when i started applying pressure and then not apply any pressure?

because you are scummier
I don't know where you get that from because its not - its your utter reversal that is scummy
I don't know where you get that from because its not - its your utter reversal that is scummy
because I reread you as I said I would. If you are talking about me scumreading teacher, I think a vote is pressure.

keep obv!scumming please

[LCpl Jones]

@jones, idk why you havent replied to this but im seriously concerned you dropped off the face of the earth when being questioned. Anyone have a read on him?

You know what, I think I'll leave you another few hours so you can practice patience. The fact I didn't answer might have been more to do with the fact that it was 4am when you posted that post :/

[LCpl Jones]

yeah, I meant thespio
I'll do it tonight

[LCpl Jones]

Meta generally isn't my forte. Jones was very careful about his votes and vote placements to avoid pressure. When he decided to buss me we were already in a tight spot and iirc never voted me day 1.

In order for Jones to be Scum and buss his partner here he would have to be confident his partner could get out of the Lynch and with multiple slots threatening to hammer it didn't look that way.

Overall I think Roo is on the money. Jones doesn't have much to lose as scum if he let's Skitter and teacher push the Lynch over.

How do you feel about his flip onto me because I’m ‘scummier’?

nice misrepresentation. completely ignoring a full case made on you. I definitely just got up and decided you were scummier and flipped onto you.

[LCpl Jones]

I don't know where you get that from because its not - its your utter reversal that is scummy
I don't know where you get that from because its not - its your utter reversal that is scummy
because I reread you as I said I would. If you are talking about me scumreading teacher, I think a vote is pressure.

keep obv!scumming please

So your entire case is pre-overkill, but im scummier now? you didnt think it was scummy when i was questioning them then? but because i felt they are town after clashing that makes me scum to you? what made over kill less scummy or me more scummy?

are you reading teacher as town or scum? Why are you in a different place? how did you get there with little to no activity, and no questions for teacher? are you reading RCU as town or scum? Just to let you know Im evaluating you based on 2 of your prior games, 1 scum, 1 town. Im curious to see how you compare.

I read RCE as fairly strong town, given his meta and behaviour
teacher, is more difficult for me, but I'll have a read tonight and see what I think
his play got a lot better from my initial scumread on him
I don't see why you feel the need to call my activity low when I have more posts than 3 other people. Your scum case is simply grasping at straws
what made you more scummy is already set out in 314 and 316

I found overkill scummy. But at the moment I'm conflicted as to whether I believe his claim or not. So I'm not willing to lynch him just now.

[LCpl Jones]

@jones, idk why you havent replied to this but im seriously concerned you dropped off the face of the earth when being questioned. Anyone have a read on him?

Just did a quick reread of Jones, and my read on him his still pretty middle of the road but leans town. Him changing his vote from Teacher to Overkill feels authentic.

But I'm not really sure why he just buys Overkill's claim at PR soft claim to try and bait a night kill. He was voting for overkill but then just quickly believes him. And as you've pointed out, he hasn't really addressed why his thoughts on overkill changed. Only saying in 323 that you are scummier. This certainly peaks my interest in him a bit.

What I'm having trouble with though is if he is scum why would he try and move the vote off of overkill, who he was voting for? Because if they were both scum, I don't think Jones would have cast that vote for Overkill when the momentum was going towards an Overkill lynch. And if only Jones is scum of, why did he abandon Overkill so fast and push on Thespio? That to me would feel like a bad strategy, where if he just stayed the course on Overkill, there still would be an Overkill lynch with probably no heat on him.

There’s a game I’m looking at where he played scum and he pushed otherscum to distance. I genuinely think he might have the same general strat, which is why I was asking RCE because now that game they were scum together. Figure they should read each other well enough. Anyways, they planned it, scum jumped on their partner and then when town paused he jumped off opurtunisticly.

I also see merit for town to lean on OK. He is all about opportunism, his vote for teacher was what peaked my interest, but when I look at who would be his partner I see Jones fitting the bill.

ah yes, so I would jump on my partner on day 1 when there was a serious wagon on him but he wasn't near getting lynched, meaning he would be closer to getting lynched seriously
and you seem to ignore that that game had a massclaim + RCE nearly got lynched d2 anyway. while this is day 1
or conversely assuming you are right, you are therefore scum because I am bussing you

[LCpl Jones]

@Thespio, talk to me about why you have essentially the same number of posts in the last two days since you became a wagon as you did in the game before then.

^

[LCpl Jones]

@thespio I think I owe you an apology for being so grumpy this morning... Sorry .. I'll try to avoid that in future

I'm on my way home now, will get caught up in half an hour or so

[LCpl Jones]

In case youre wondering why I dont want to go to Jones, its in part that the flip to Overki11 from me felt genuine, as did the flip to you. His thought pattern is consistent, and his activity levels have been consistent.

In case your wondering why I am defending you, its mostly the activity and meta. I see some similiar aspects to your town play, and I do see you posting reads and forcing people to react to your slot. Im very comfortable voting you if need be for the spoiled reasons, but would rather see 0verki11 or crumbs gone.

Spoiler: Thespio poss scum thoughts

Adding quick reactions not necessarily covered by Lcpl's case

VOTE: Jones because didn't use an emote

Very mild; already discussed.

similar views on arbitrary things

Early attempt to break up a townblock of RCE-me?

You are buddying him really hard though. Very interesting.

As has been pointed out several times, its an inaccurate observation. The strength of buddying was from my slot, not RCEs

Also he just posted, he ignored your req

This unplanned post during the 1v1 really struck me. Since the first half of Thespio's ISO is about me, and since at this point Im one of his two scumreads, the "unawareness" that I had in fact answered the question feels fake.

If they were active I would get into it with them like I did with RCE

Again, as previously observed, this is inconsistent with how he treated his scumread of me. Perhaps said as a way to back off a push they are getting scummed for, and turn it to a reason to get towncred? I just dont see why you wouldnt have mixed it up with me.

so either hes scum or teacher is, they are mutually exclusive in my mind at this point

if you flip green I’m leaning against teacher.

TMI Lining up lynches?

crumbs has posted enough for me to feel they are scum but I’ll try to read them before I get busyto see how I feel about it.

I want to speak on this a little bit -- why, given the spoilered stuff -- Im pushing 0verki11 or crumbs over Thespio. Its a lesson I learned a little later in my time on MS, but it makes sense to me. D1 and D2, you should of course try to scum hunt. But you should also get rid of town liabilities -- nullish folk that scum wont kill. Town liabilities should not make it to lylo because (1) they are an easy mislynch for scum to push and win the game, and (2) they havent been invested enough to have game-saving reads themselves. A discussion of this theory is here.

To be clear, I think 0verki11 is currently the scummiest player right now. But even though I think Thespio has done scummier things than crumbs, I favor crumbs' lynch because the scummier things are in part because Thespio has done more things generally. Crumbs hasnt done much and have flown below the radar on some charisma reads and not interacting with many slots.

Ok - that makes sense. Crumbs isn't really pinging me apart from lack of activity. But overkill is probably the most scummy after thespio (sorry :v) so I'm happy to lunch there and give thespio another chance

[LCpl Jones]

So with that intent to hammer

Pedit
@teacher
I'd see it more as what I did myself tbh. I thought I had voted thespio but in fact I didn't. I'm not honestly reading that much into it

[LCpl Jones]

@jones, my guy, your case was that I pushed RCE, then I stopped, then when OK posted his vote for teacher I moved my attention over there. That’s what your case is with a lot of fluff.

With your meta, and I’ll link to the post, you do the exact same flip you are doing here.

Also you literal posted you flipped because I’m scummier.

@town, This late in the day I don’t foresee RCE, Jones, crumbs, or skitter changing. Jones seems to take this very personal, making comments that don’t seem to add to his case but just call me scum. Crumbs just seems like they up and vanished.RCE doesn’t seem to be evaluating anyone else, and skitters V/LA don’t leave a lot of time. If it comes to it hammer me. Then look at Jones. His meta does fit, and his flip seems to be gut driven. I think with teacher active and Jones having not actually voted yet there’s enough active to do so. Ill be working on a project today and will only have a little time to check up on you all.

Not really - my case was more that you literally mentioned rce or teacher in nearly every post up to a certain point then that stopped among other things :v

[LCpl Jones]

I don't know where you get that from because its not - its your utter reversal that is scummy
I don't know where you get that from because its not - its your utter reversal that is scummy
because I reread you as I said I would. If you are talking about me scumreading teacher, I think a vote is pressure.

keep obv!scumming please

So your entire case is pre-overkill, but im scummier now? you didnt think it was scummy when i was questioning them then? but because i felt they are town after clashing that makes me scum to you? what made over kill less scummy or me more scummy?

are you reading teacher as town or scum? Why are you in a different place? how did you get there with little to no activity, and no questions for teacher? are you reading RCU as town or scum? Just to let you know Im evaluating you based on 2 of your prior games, 1 scum, 1 town. Im curious to see how you compare.

I'm just kind of curious, which was the towngame? Was it that one on my old account? That was my first ever not exactly a stellar performance

[LCpl Jones]

I haven't read this page yet but if there are no objections I'll hammer at 2pm UK time?

[LCpl Jones]

I have some thoughts on skitter but I want to see the flip first before I comment on them.

@teacher, my apologies - I completely forgot about reading you :/ will skitter do instead, as you said?

[LCpl Jones]

VOTE: overkill
Hammer

[LCpl Jones]

I think you remove everything before v=
i.e. otCpCn...Wo inside the tags.

[LCpl Jones]

:c

Why me?

[LCpl Jones]

Possibly outside game influence, not sure

Anyway, ggwp town

[LCpl Jones]

Why did you kill me scum? Did I come across as PR?