Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!
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Mewtaph
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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A major threat to both factions, hm? It's confirmed 11 town vs 3 scum, but it would've been somewhat entertaining if you "breadcrumbed" that you were an SK -ahem- I mean town vigilante.In post 62, Almost Chara wrote:Um.. erm.. insert the usual role crumb here. Imagine it something genuine, VERY POWERFUL and extremely dangerous to your faction (i.e. I want scum to think we can single-handedly eradicate their team, but also town to consider us a major threat).
~You know who it is, silly. Does Chara post like this?
Okay, so you wanted to vote them in spirit but you couldn't. Did you have any other leads outside of Shoshin the worst that you would've liked to pursue at the time of making this post or was that the only slot you received scum vibes up to 142?In post 142, Michael Scott wrote:
This is sound.In post 137, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Varsoon posted 2 links, one to Starcraft 1, where you encouraged everyone multiple times to “stretch their mind” and the second, to TAZ, where you didn’t do that even once.
My vote's on there in spirit as well.
Also Alchemist feels town.
UNVOTE:
~Jimothy
Not really following this. Why does scum-to-town not give an out at all? Why does the described scum-to-scum scenario have to involve Mephistophanes 39 giving an out to Shoshin the worst at all?In post 204, Alchemist21 wrote:I think mephisto giving outs makes them Town. Scum-to-Town wouldn’t give an out at all, and we know scum have daytalk so if they were scum together I imagine that giving them an idea on how to excuse their play would have happened in the scum PT. Town gives outs like that when they want to consider the possibilities without jumping the gun. It’s a fluffy slot but I think that’s mostly Ari being Ari.
It doesn't really look like a push to me, it just looks like they responded to Shoshin the worst's inquiry. Doesn't the post right above (250) fit along the lines described in 251 of "pint is scummy because he did X"?In post 251, ProFlavor wrote:I don't like u r a person 2 pushing pint - the push has a lot of stuff that pint hasn't done (e.g. promise of catch up) and less stuff along the lines of "pint is scummy because he did X"
why is activity now AI?
~ woof-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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I like u r a person 2 for town quite a bit actually, and I would be willing to do my first active sort to them, Taly or Varsoon.
I think NicoRobin is a decent point to poke with a stick before deadline rears too close, but is a bad wagon to get going near deadline in case they are really just apathetic!town.
I don't know why pinturrichio keeps pushing their content back repeatedly but it's not a great look.-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Yes. You can take that vote as serious in that I haven't seen any other wagon was compelling enough for me to shift my vote. I don't buy how he's approaching the game state as genuine.
It was an open ended question, so I wasn't expecting any answer in particular.In post 936, Taly wrote:
What answer were you expecting here?In post 765, Mewtaph wrote:Hey Gamma, can I ask you a question? Do you think that I should be town reading you this game?
I thought ignoringIn post 936, Taly wrote:
I didn't like the initial voting onIn post 772, Mewtaph wrote:I like u r a person 2 for town quite a bit actually, and I would be willing to do my first active sort to them, Taly or Varsoon.
I think NicoRobin is a decent point to poke with a stick before deadline rears too close, but is a bad wagon to get going near deadline in case they are really just apathetic!town.
I don't know why pinturrichio keeps pushing their content back repeatedly but it's not a great look.UP2when I first skimmed through it, the reasons for a scumread there lacked substance (PromptingMichael Scottto explain why he thoughtUP2'sposts were manufactured, that's the vote that most got my attention when it happened.)
I agree a bit onNico. A lurker lynch won't get anywhere, and I don't trust the fact that everyone is like"where's the scum at"?
:/ I get my vote onKokichicontradicts the above statement, but I'm working to change this.
Pintpushing content back... not a great look? Or scum-indicative?u r a person 2'sself-referential call for a wagon on himself by means of a vote over interaction was scummy. There is a part of me that thinks that scum would be looking for something to do outside of STW's wagon after it dissolved.
Mmm, yes. This is how I feel too.
I'm not takingPinthaving to push his content back as scum indicative but I'm saying it would've been bad if posts along those lines continued, which I guess is pointless now.-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Okay, so here's an expansion of the thought I briefed at the beginning of my 965 - Alchemist has shown themselves to be a competent player in that he appeared active during and after RVS and easily adjusted into a neutral mediator role between Shoshin the worst and Varsoon. He takes multiple opportunities early on to appear present in the thread that seems crafted to achieve nothing but a sense of activity and general noise, but unlike other offenders of this act, shows that they have no particular interest in trying to wrangle active thread control, staying separated from those willing to fight each other over it. Town has no reason to engage with this type of engagement which allows presence but allows for separation from the events taking place for 20 posts, especially when they decide to make 204, which is a fairly analytical post to sort somebody as town using logic, right?
Except after Alchemist's ISO #0 to #20, he starts to move away from the early dispute and the problem is that his first post (204) in doing so feels artificial because when directly questioned, he points to the post as a reason to follow him as being town. 297 was disconnected from his original line of thought in 204 that I question if he actually thought of it in the first place. In sum, they've taken multiple stances but have retracted those stances to the point where he's been able to keep his options wide open outside of Varsoon/STW/Mephisto which are easy lynches to strike out as scum, while offering the overall illusion of coinciding ideas of being engaged and sorting the game state out, while failing to achieve either in any way that I believe in.
I could be wrong, but I'm comfortable with the rationale for my vote.-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Die.In post 1252, Shoshin the worst wrote:Mewt or Nico are fine lynches right now as far as I can tell. They aren't the only people I scumread/don't townread but they're the slots I feel better about lynching.
NR flipping red would actually be fairly interesting given the way some slots have orbited around her today.
Mewt feels like a wolf.
We still have a couple of days right? No one be a flake please.-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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VC 1.11In post 1124, Taly wrote:mewdo u have any reads aside fromalchand thoughts on the current wagons aside from your sole vote? want to know ty
u r a person 2 - obv town, thoughts/approach too difficult to emulate as scum
Shoshin the worst - scummy, trying to discredit any suspicion on them, trying to degrade Varsoon's read on them as much as possible when he's likely the N1 target
pinturicchio - 1168 reads as genuine town, but not 100% clearing - best attempt to read them is when they are fully capable of generating thoughts or when they get a replacement: probably not wagoning D1
NicoRobin - really really shitty deadline lynch, received how they responded to pressure, not AI imo and they aren't invested enough to counter the dumb meta arguments in thread that have been presented, asking for a no-info D2 walking into it with Varsoon/Nico dead and one ML down, also my scumreads are willing to push it so nope
Kokichi - would be surprised if this was the one time he flips scum and he opens on Almost Chara, not interested in lynch here and my scumreads are willing to push it so nope
Alchemist21 - fake as fuck progressions throughout the game + fencesitting "decision making" => hard SR but something to pursue at a later day phase for me, don't have the thread presence to push it through-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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There is. That's his first game-advancing content and 297 completely misinterprets the second half of my question. His "I'm not redoubling on the mistakes I messed up" reads as AtE. I wouldn't buy it if I were you.In post 1125, u r a person 2 wrote:I don't see any disconnect between 204 and 297-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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It's how scum would respond from beginning to end. Me trying to push Alchemist through here requires thread presence I don't have - Nancy is acting as a huge obstacle to me pushing him at all and reflecting votes onto me in a very destructive manner.In post 1258, Michael Scott wrote:@Mewtaph: Alchemist rebutted your attack on him, you left it at that though - why?
Rationale for STW, Almost Chara?
Why a policy lynch on Nancy?
~Jimothy
Tl;dr, the rebuttal is how a scum responds and the basis of his approach to me isn't how town thinks. I'm not responding to a hard SR-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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On AC: They aren't a town read and I'm much more interested in exploring where Kokichi is going with this rather than discarding what he's saying completely and toss him into the "ML and ignore" pile. A50 has been notably "muted" in presence compared to what I expect from him in other games, so if someone has a chip on the Chara head then I'm willing to roll with a wagon on them.-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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In post 673, Krazy wrote:
Yes.In post 562, Varsoon wrote:In post 1, Krazy wrote:- This is a confirmed single-ball game with no third party roles. The distribution of players will be 11 town vs 3 mafia
- There will be a role similar to a town-aligned vigilante in this game
- This game will feature roles that interact with the order of players in the player list, but the primary emphasis will still be on day play and not night actions.
@Mod: Can we take the point quoted here to indicate that there will be a TOWN-ALIGNED role that is similar to a Vigilante this game?This isn't how town responds to reacting to something stopping a public dayvig shot on them "outside of their knowledge" by the way.
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Alchemist and Nancy have been pushing me, check there for reasoning.In post 1265, ProFlavor wrote:Hmm, I don’t know if I’m a fan of this Mewtaph wagon, but I’ll trust Profii.
What’s the case for ScumTaph?
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Okay, but the way he's approaching me isn't giving me a chance to respond. That's the entire point of when you drag someone's name in the dirt.In post 1267, Michael Scott wrote:@Mew
Your responding to the hard SR would be to convince the rest of us to sheep you on your SR. Disagree?
"It's how scum would respond" isn't a rebuttal.
Quote where Nancy's been deflecting votes, and detail how it's destructive?
~Jimothy-
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Spoiler:
Did a quick search in Nancy's ISO, here are the posts that I think are completely bringing up vectors of attack that are almost entirely created to protect their TR, essentially they're constraining original thought process in the thread which isn't good especially when it's only D1. This is essentially a post dumping all of it in one area.-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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I think him opening with a vote on you and pushing on it based on something you did qualifies as playing the game.In post 1273, Almost Chara wrote:
oh, it's here.In post 1264, Mewtaph wrote:On AC: They aren't a town read and I'm much more interested in exploring where Kokichi is going with this rather than discarding what he's saying completely and toss him into the "ML and ignore" pile. A50 has been notably "muted" in presence compared to what I expect from him in other games, so if someone has a chip on the Chara head then I'm willing to roll with a wagon on them.
Mewtaph, i replied to Kokichi's assertions earlier. (he isn't correct. we recently finished a game together where he replaced into a towny slot and through inactivity i ended up scumreading him.)
there's no way to "wait and sort" Kokichi like he says i doevery single timewhen he's town (i don't) if he is barely playing to begin with.
Almost is busy. is that just a general comment, or are you saying it's AI?
~Chara
As far as Almost being busy, sure, but I need more from him because he's the head I am most equipped to try to read.-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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It's hard to interact with somebody claiming to have a meta chip on you when they really don't. They need to knock it down a peg and SR me for in game reasons beyond "I didn't like his question to Gamma, that was the icing to the cake for Mew being scum aye". Or don't, that's their choice.In post 1277, Almost Chara wrote:one of those posts is just a vote. another of them is telling someone she thinks your ISOs in two games look different. a third is stating two TRs as bad wagons.
how are any of these sophisticated enough to be "constraining original thought process"? saying... words isn't shutting down conversation.
~Chara
Theyareconstraining play around their town reads. Sure, they can go and do that, but they don't need to form vectors of bullshit on other players in the process.-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Ok Chara, do you agree with this?In post 1266, Mewtaph wrote:In post 673, Krazy wrote:
Yes.In post 562, Varsoon wrote:In post 1, Krazy wrote:- This is a confirmed single-ball game with no third party roles. The distribution of players will be 11 town vs 3 mafia
- There will be a role similar to a town-aligned vigilante in this game
- This game will feature roles that interact with the order of players in the player list, but the primary emphasis will still be on day play and not night actions.
@Mod: Can we take the point quoted here to indicate that there will be a TOWN-ALIGNED role that is similar to a Vigilante this game?This isn't how town responds to reacting to something stopping a public dayvig shot on them "outside of their knowledge" by the way.
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Potentially. It's bugging me.In post 1285, Almost Chara wrote:
not really, i can't think of another way for town to really respond. what would you expect? why would scum reply like this?In post 1281, Mewtaph wrote:Ok Chara, do you agree with this?
unless you're suggesting that this response indicates that STWdidknow why the shot failed and is lying about it?
~Chara-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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It was only a mod response to Varsoon's query. The flip could've been processed. Perhaps all it would've taken was for Varsoon to state his kill in thread in flavour and he just had to correct it to go through.
The casual sass feels misplaced when before they were in "give reads I'm about to get flipped mode".
So why say "#stillalive #stilltown" when you 100% could be dead if you have nothing that indicates you are safe from vig shots?-
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Mewtaph
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Okay, so I'm responding to a town read who's asking me to double down on a reason why I scumread someone, and now you insist that I have to double down again for you even though I've practically entirely explored that particular reason extensively at this point? You can think it's bullshit or whatever, but acting like my reasoning is non existent is bullshit.In post 1292, Shoshin the worst wrote:
Why do either of these things actually come from scum tho?In post 1260, Mewtaph wrote:
There is. That's his first game-advancing content and 297 completely misinterprets the second half of my question. His "I'm not redoubling on the mistakes I messed up" reads as AtE. I wouldn't buy it if I were you.In post 1125, u r a person 2 wrote:I don't see any disconnect between 204 and 297
This is tinfoil at best. Straight up.
Don't act like what I'm saying is completely whoooshing over you every time. This is a waste of time.-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Okay, but this casual narrative you're trying to play out here doesn't fit the timeline. You were already laughing at the slot, except before you decided to go down the discredit and obtain from contributing elsewhere gameplan, your reaction to me holding onto a vote on you was anything but comedic. Explain to me how any content I make is "icing on the cake" now when the basis of your scumread is inherently based on riding the wave of consensus to try to ride me out the playerlist?In post 1305, Alchemist21 wrote:
Emphasis on joke. I was already laughing at the slot. His last post is just icing on the cake.In post 1301, Shoshin the worst wrote:.....the fuck is anyone townreading this? I'm gonna speak to my partner but this is a joke.-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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None of these things have actually happened. Feel free to double check the narrative and pull up quotes because what you're saying is there definitely isn't.In post 1313, Alchemist21 wrote:Ok but do you ever just blatantly make shit up about people? Have you ever said some shit like “I’m not gonna sort you because I’m already scumreading you.”?-
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This is the basis behind my scum read, clearly quoted and available to read so don't try to twist it into something else as if I'm trying to "shape inconsistencies" in some form.In post 965, Mewtaph wrote:I don't buy how he's approaching the game state as genuine.-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Fine, I'll play ball where you dismiss and misinterpret what I've down. The only thing that fits what you're saying remotely is 204 to 297 where I point out in 1121 that your response to my question was disconnected from your initial thought process and is hardly enough to say that I'm "blatantly making shit up about people".
Here's the post in question.
It was. You tried to justify your first game advancing content via providing a town read on Mephisto. Scum-to-town makes absolutely no sense - they can approach the game state however they want given that there's almost no pressure directed their way. Scum-to-scum is similarly loose reasoning. The initial question was actuallyIn post 297, Alchemist21 wrote:
Scum to Town doesn’t because they want the pressure to stay on the Town slot.In post 253, Mewtaph wrote:Not really following this. Why does scum-to-town not give an out at all? Why does the described scum-to-scum scenario have to involve Mephistophanes 39 giving an out to Shoshin the worst at all?
And you’re with me on tbe scum to scum scenario, it doesn’t happen, at least not in the game thread.why it happens, which is part of the basis of your town read, and instead you decide to take some off-shoot path and suggest why "it doesn't happen, at least in the game thread" as if that was an answer to my question and I was totally following your reasoning the entire time.
The same thought process in 204 you'd be well acquainted with as town given that you point it out as a reason to town read you when inquired upon.
By taking different ways to reach a conclusion to one town read, it feels more like you're trying to make your reads feel "complex" and hence townie but you can't even follow up on it.
So if we're talking about wheeling back and suggesting "inconsistencies" now, feels a lot more like you're trying to discredit my line of reasoning as much as you can, using your town cred to expend yourself of pressure. This isn't a townie thought process to be observing, it's a scummy one.-
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You mean posts like 1223, 1242, 1305 and more?In post 1316, Alchemist21 wrote:
I’ve given thoughts on your slot. All you can do is make up shit about my posts and say “it’s not Town.”In post 1312, Mewtaph wrote:Discrediting me as an excuse not to generate actual thought process on my slot. That's not an inconsistency, that's exactly what you're doing here.
What I'm saying in "actual thought process" is the process of sorting: which I've seen none from you at all.-
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I'm not pushing that his logic is inherently incorrect = he is scum. From a game context perspective, there's very little correlation between 204 to 297 to how it relates to Mephisto to Shoshin the worst. Their reasoning is kind of general on how scum might approach the situation (but not set in stone) and he uses that to create some complex line of thought where he ends at Mephisto being town. He hasn't really followed up on why he relates it to Mephisto to Shoshin the worst. Alchemist is saying in an interactions based way that Mephisto is town, but has no compelling reason to think in this way - it feels like trying to create a complex thought process when there's next to no point of going to this extent in justifying a town read that you could justify in several other ways than the one presented. Then he uses the same post as a strong reason to town read him when asked. That's why it feels insincere to me. It appears as a "complex" and hence townie thought process.In post 1322, u r a person 2 wrote:This is messing with my read because I'm not sure if this is some sort of gambit or if you sincerely misunderstand the logic. Make no mistake, Alchemist's logic is fine in these two posts.
Given, Mephisto gives an out to stw
Assert scum wouldn't give an out to town because it doesn't benefit scum to take the pressure off of town
Assert scum wouldn't give an out to scum because they would do it in scum chat
Conclude, mephisto must be town.
I'm not saying that I agree - scum might give an out to town under the right circumstances - but the thought process is consistent between the two posts and, imo, shows generally townie thought processes.
If this makes sense, please tell me how, if at all, it affects your read-
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Following on my previous post. More specifically, it hedges on Varsoon vs STW which is a much more significant point of interest and making a strong conclusion there, while throwing out some sense of analysis that ends in Mephisto being town which is only really relevant in diffusing hostility between STW and Mephisto which is much less relevant. It's misplaced focus.-
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Tibor and Lumia - IDK, kind of decreased presence recently and I'm not sure how to interpret that. They've had a decent presence so I can probably form a read there with a little push with flip info later days
Taly - town, if scum then I'll just take the bullet
Michael Scott - Kind of scummy? I just might not like meta arguments but the vote on NicoRobin and "a scum flip would be helpful there anyway" kind of bothered me
pinturicchio - I think their approach is townie and they're town, feels a bit like a future ML setup and I'm just not very excited about it
Almost Chara - they can be a town lean for now. I think I jumped on them too hard for being scum without much reason
Kokichi Oma - his presence is kind of hit or miss, isn't it? I mean, I really don't know but it's not a lynch target given what I know about him-
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I'm not playing in any games with you after this tbh, so you can stick "meta" up your ass.In post 1544, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
Ah, so he isn’t even basing his bad read on meta. His insistence in pushing you for reasons which make 0 sense to me, reads off to me.In post 1534, Alchemist21 wrote:
I don’t think I’ve played with Mew before.In post 1531, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
Looks like it was just Mew tbh. I don't know what their shared meta is rn, Mew/Alchemist care to elucidate me?In post 993, Shoshin the worst wrote:I think it's just Mewtaph and Taly atm but it does not make any sense to me, either.
-Gamma Emerald, reader of YA literature at age 19-
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Can you point me to where the basis of your scumread on pintu lies if it isn't for activity?In post 1566, u r a person 2 wrote:
I'm doing my best not to let his absence change my readIn post 1564, Mewtaph wrote:Why do you even want a pintu wagon other than he's not present in the thread?
but my reads elsewhere have evolved, mainly on stw, proflavor and strengthening of a couple town reads
and pintu's scum equity has increased as a consequence
why do you seem hostile to the idea of moving the wagon off of you and onto someone else?-
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I expected no based off of your commentary in 755, but also some sort of clarification on engagement or activity. I thought your response was in line with what I expected. In terms of "open-ended", I was open to however you wanted to interpret it, though saying yes would be kind of a tonal shift off of what you already said so would require some follow-up or reasoning for me to verify. IIRC, you weren't appearing as much as Brass at that point which is why I wanted to get an answer from you then.In post 1537, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
YoIn post 1121, Mewtaph wrote:Okay, so here's an expansion of the thought I briefed at the beginning of my 965 - Alchemist has shown themselves to be a competent player in that he appeared active during and after RVS and easily adjusted into a neutral mediator role between Shoshin the worst and Varsoon. He takes multiple opportunities early on to appear present in the thread that seems crafted to achieve nothing but a sense of activity and general noise, but unlike other offenders of this act, shows that they have no particular interest in trying to wrangle active thread control, staying separated from those willing to fight each other over it. Town has no reason to engage with this type of engagement which allows presence but allows for separation from the events taking place for 20 posts, especially when they decide to make 204, which is a fairly analytical post to sort somebody as town using logic, right?
Except after Alchemist's ISO #0 to #20, he starts to move away from the early dispute and the problem is that his first post (204) in doing so feels artificial because when directly questioned, he points to the post as a reason to follow him as being town. 297 was disconnected from his original line of thought in 204 that I question if he actually thought of it in the first place. In sum, they've taken multiple stances but have retracted those stances to the point where he's been able to keep his options wide open outside of Varsoon/STW/Mephisto which are easy lynches to strike out as scum, while offering the overall illusion of coinciding ideas of being engaged and sorting the game state out, while failing to achieve either in any way that I believe in.
I could be wrong, but I'm comfortable with the rationale for my vote.
I want a reason for why you asked me how I read myself with no anticipated answer. That's a question people with pre-existing notions on the subject ask.
-Gamma Emerald, who is probably done for a while as his focus is broken-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Yeah, I'm not super passionate about STW being scum enough to case them, but ultimately I'm comfortable with voting there considering momentum elsewhere seems dubious.
388 is enough that I am willing to reconsider how I feel about pintu on a reread. A scroll through tells me most of my read is based on 1168 which I shouldn't be using as basis for a read.-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 1989
- Joined: August 31, 2016
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 1989
- Joined: August 31, 2016
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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Well, for positions to be relevant then some actions need to be dependent in some way based on position, right? Mephisto's ability isn't gated through positions though, and Varsoon's is implied not to be. So instead, it could be plausible that any scum player can make the night kill, but they'd have to be within X range. This would make Mephisto's flipped watcher role, for example, much more likely to find results, if say, a mafia member could only make the kill if they were within 2 positions away.
(This is mostly a prodge tbh.)-
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Mewtaph Mafia Scum
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