Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]

[mastina]

AWW THANK YOU <3

You're welcome; I'm the one who told him that.

For what its worth, I warned people in my channel that if Toog is a wolf then he's a PGO

And Torque can vouch for me when I say that I had countermeasures in play were he one.

[mastina]

See how WIFOM really doesn’t work?

Boy oh boy you picked the wrong term to use, fella.

Wondering if I should drop the bombshell on that term right now or let it fall in suspense for a while.

Suffice to say,

I'm feeling quite smug at the moment in terms of that post.

[mastina]

Although do you know if you targeting Toog would fail and he wouldn't die because of it?

No, I figured I'd be most likely to get an answer there after Toogeloo died rather than before, because if I asked the mod, "Hypothetically, if I targeted a male character who if targeted by a night action, would they die?", I wouldn't expect to get a response; now I can ask, "If I targeted Toogeloo, and I was the only one to do so, would he die?". Planning on it, just need to get fully caught up, first.

[mastina]

I don't actually see why scum!toog needs to claim that

Simple.
Because if scum-toog doesn't claim it.
Then anyone would target Toogeloo N2, beit those townreading him OR scumreading him. He has no way to make them target someone else; he has no control over it.

And having that role for real, any fakeclaim risks him becoming the next Vedith. What if he claimed PGO and there was another in the game? Just like with Drixx counterclaiming Vedith, Toogeloo ends up lynched. Any fakeclaim of his runs the risk of being a town player's actual role--so he can't risk fakeclaiming, knowing fakeclaiming condemned Vedith; he's forced to realclaim in order to make them target someone else.

It was the one way of controlling actions to make them go off of him, which wouldn't automatically condemn him to being the lynch. He knew his realclaim was safe; he knew that fakeclaiming, via Vedith, wasn't safe. He knew that if he was targeted, he'd die; he knew that there were any number of town players who for any reason would target him N2 if he didn't claim.

You're ultimately correct, though. This doesn't directly help find scum, other than showing that SuperfluousNinja's barking up the wrong tree.

[mastina]

Well I look forward to the post-game analysis when I can make it clear to you that this really is WIFOM. I don’t know why you’re pretending to know something that both of us know is not true.

Because I know something you do not know about WIFOM.
You think you know WIFOM well enough to argue it.
But I know something about WIFOM that you do not.

And what I know gives me a degree of smugness on the subject.

Why haven’t you answered my questions yet?

Why are you pretending that I haven't when I already did?

[mastina]

So I wanted to get to this yesterday, but didn't get the chance, regrettably. Basically,

Spoiler: Just For Fun (not really game content)

I forgot my phone yesterday, leaving me immensely bored and unable to check in on this game while there. Still, I wanted to write this out, so that I could type it up when I got home. It doesn't serve any game purposes other than entertainment, but I wanted to publicly further softclaim my role, because why not.
Or rather, my flavor, beyond what I did in my neighborhood.

The anime I chose, in spite of being a slice-of-life anime, is the greatest shonen action anime of all time. It features rivals-turned friends, friendly rivalries, intensive training, tournaments, heck, it even has battles of sorts.

The protagonist (who was my second pick, since she's my second-favorite character) is a stock shonen anime protagonist, a ditzy airhead. She's not the leader because she's the smartest (she's dumb as a brick MOST of the time, aside from occasional flashes of brilliance, per the norm of a shonen anime protagonist that has REMARKABLE insight in key areas to make up for their utter lack of insight elsewhere), but rather, because she's nice; she's kind; she's enthusiastic; she's open, she's blunt, and most of all--she's driven. These traits together make her a magnetic personality, which is what earned her her spot as the leader.

She's only my second-favorite character, tho, because the character I actually got for this game--my first/primary pick--is my favorite character who I submitted first and foremost. She's a magnificent bitch, instead, who basically orchestrated step-by-step the success/rise of the series protagonist, and is gay as gay can be--thus, why her signature attack (which was my N2 unlock) is groping her target. (Thus, why my power only works on female characters.) Since my series has a LOT of girls in it, this attack is super-effective.

I'd tell you more, but that'd spoil the surprise. Those with the extra clues in my neighborhood can maybe figure it out if they try. (For instance, I thought the music video from the OP of our 'hood was due to my character's Japanese Voice Actor.)

Fun done, now to the game content.

[mastina]

@Mastina
a townblock of Joan/Maybe Pink Ball/Dunn/RP/Chito & Yuuri/You/Me effective for today, yes/no

Maybe so--Pink Ball was hard-spewed-town by Vedith.
Reasonably Psychotic was hard-spewed-town by SuperfluousNinja.
Dunnstral was hard-spewed-town by his push on SuperfluousNinja.
Chito and Yuuri were hard-spewed-town for their push on Vedith.

The only name on there I'm not sure of being town is Joan, and even there I agree she's probably town. But I'd prefer to finish a reread of the game with full reevaluation. We've got two dead scum right now, and plenty of time to find the remaining two. I need to find the absolute best POE for the townbloc and make ABSOLUTELY sure there's no scum in it.

[mastina]

this lynch is stupid
theres no way both mastina and rp are town and theyre both content lynching this

There is; it's called I've been calling the slot scum since the beginning of D2 pretty much and Reasonably Psychotic was spewed town from it.

[mastina]

He claimed targeting 7 minutes before Tatsuya made the new day post

You didn't need to out that you were a member of the 'hood, Dunn, since I claimed this info already:

So,

singletonking

was in the channel Torque and I did; the reason he died is that

he targeted Severa

, and per singleton's PM, that means Severa's death killed singleton.

Speaking of that post, tho:

That said:

PUBLIC EVENT

mastina becomes Loved!

Until the end of Day 3, mastina requires one more vote to be lynched!

This was not from any action of mine; I didn't do this. I don't know who did it, either, since nobody in my neighborhood has yet claimed responsibility for it.

Someone from the neighborhood did in fact claim responsibility for this, explaining where it came from.

[mastina]

A50 wants this post to be drawn to people's attention(or at least he used it for his color coding)
He believes that the remaining scum team is Mastina+Elena.

Yeah good luck with that, considering SuperfluousNinja basically hard-spewed me as town with his reaction to my push on him.

Also my handling of Vedith.

And how I've handled...

...Well just about everything, really.

So when I say 'good luck', I mean you'll need it to have so much of a chance in hell of pushing some bullshit team like that through.

[mastina]

VOTE: Elena Fisherman's Wharf

Sorry, but I'm vetoing this as a lynch today.

[mastina]

Looking over Elena again, meh, she could be scum, I still wouldn't be excited about voting her this day phase over other options (translation: We're not lynching her today, but you guys can look at her later)

This is fair.

I wouldn't give her an INDEFINITE pass.

But she sure as fuck isn't the lynch today.

RE: Almost50: I really want to revisit this read in detail.
Can Joan/Pink Ball go over Ankamius's thoughts on Almost50?
And also Severa's thoughts on Almost50?
I'm sure both of them would've at least mentioned him in there; I could use the info.

I want to reread both of their isos, reread the whole game AFTER rereading their isos (so points from their isos are highlighted in my mind during the reread), and after that form a more definitive option. (On that note--one of the things I want for the reread is to manually track votes, because the mod gives votecounts at a less frequent pace than critical wagon momentum shifts--for instance, only a fraction of the SuperfluousNinja voters today would show as such, in spite of there being like five, six, or so of them.)

Near x Mello:

I'm not convinced they're scum but they deserve to be here. This is probably where people will default to lynching without my intervention

Near x Mello were with you as being early pushers of Robert--who also pushed them. I need to check it out, to see if it could be scum distancing, but my instinct is that it isn't.

Chito & Yuuri:

I'll be honest, I haven't been reading their posts. They seem low impact, if people make a good case for them being town I'll consider it

Check out their D1 content--it's true that from D2 onward they've somewhat fallen to the wayside, but their D1 posting was a strong enough showing to give a solid idea of why they're town.

[mastina]

@mastina I think I know your character. It's Satsuki Kiryuuin, right?

Very good guess, since kill la kill was among my list for picks I wanted to submit.

I won't be answering right or wrong for any guess tho. Takes the fun out of it.

[mastina]

Ankamius says that Almost is more likely to flip scum than not, and that his flip would be useful either way.

Waitwhat.

WELL THEN.

VOTE: Almost50.

[mastina]

Ankamius says that Almost is more likely to flip scum than not, and that his flip would be useful either way.

Waitwhat.

WELL THEN.

VOTE: Almost50.

Literally my main piece of doubt there was Ankamius saying he was town; with her real read being that he was scum, fuck yes we lynch him.

I had him as a peripheral scumread; Severa had him as a scumread; Ankamius had him as a scumread; that's good enough for me.

[mastina]

So reading Almost50's iso.

Hell yes he's scum, and has sketchy Gamma associatives as well. (Not going into the sketchy Robert associatives and sketchy Vedith interaction.)

A real highlight for me though is this,

@Drixx: I know why you may not think I'm playing to my town meta, but I can't explain it right now. Maybe on D3 or D4 if we're both still alive.

Given who died N1 and all.

[mastina]

This post implies that certain hoods do not contain scums and certain ones do but how would you know that unless you had info on what hoods are available in the game? It’s doubtful that a Townie would be able to do anything but assume let alone speculate on an all scum hood.

What makes you think scum have info about all hoods available in the game
ie
How is bnl's thing more likely coming from scum than town?

I never said that scums had info on the hoods available in the game.

Looking back at BNL's post, it's suspicious that the post he made implies that not all hoods contain scum. It would be one thing if he brought up multiple possibilities like Drixx did when discussing possible house set-ups but he doesn't do that.

We have no idea if all the hoods in the game has a scum or not. Some of us are in one hood, some are in multiples like Morality (who elected to post in one channel and not in the other) but as far as alignments are concerned, there are no confirmations. Given this, it's a big leap to say that one or more of the hoods are all-town unless BNL had prior information knowing where the scums are, which only scum would know.

Kinda sorta feel like this from SSBF was a scumslip he tried to cover up RE: Almost50...who, as scum, has exactly that, access to every channel.

By that, I mean, he tried to project BNL/singleton's claim to an actual real scum role in the hands of another player (Almost50), essentially, and when called out on it by Near x Mello, tried to cover it up.

[mastina]

Reasonably Psychotic: I think this slot has a lot of hot air posts. They say a lot but in the end, the post ends up saying very little. Mech talk over explanation etc etc. If someone wants to explain why this slot is town to me I am all ears.

How about this:
What you describe is exactly Cerb's town meta, not his scum meta.

[mastina]

Well, I'm almost half way to being lynched. That's a pretty big thing to put onto one guy.
Now, I could have made it equal and voted Gamma, but that would make me as bad as the people voting me!

RED FLAGS RED FLAGS

Vedith entered the game as the largest wagon--he voted Pink Ball, the largest counterwagon, and avoided voting Gamma...with this bullshit excuse.

Try telling me with a straight face that his reason for not voting Gamma Emerald isn't absolute bullshit.

[mastina]

VOTE: elena

So when are you going to finally admit you're wrong.

And actually vote scum?

There's some incredibly damning reasons for Almost50 to be scum, from Drixx to Ankamius to Severa to what I've given there and the points I raised and am raising, plus what Dunnstral has brought up beyond even that.

Whereas every time scum have flipped, you've gone back to the same thing.
Elena this. Elena that.
Except it's not her.

[mastina]

Reasonably Psychotic: I think this slot has a lot of hot air posts. They say a lot but in the end, the post ends up saying very little. Mech talk over explanation etc etc. If someone wants to explain why this slot is town to me I am all ears.

How about this:
What you describe is exactly Cerb's town meta, not his scum meta.

Tell me what his scum meta is like, please.

Saying a lot which does a lot, pretty much. Mech talk is there regardless, but as town Cerb's posts are just kinda there, whereas when scum Cerb's posts have a clear agenda to them.

Cerb lacks that agenda and there isn't so much of a trace of one in the game, so.

Town.

There's also how SuperfluousNinja was pushing him as scum, soooo.

There's some incredibly damning reasons for Almost50 to be scum

almost is town

Yes and so was SuperfluousNinja.

[mastina]

I mean. I guess that works. Feels a little simplistic, but sure! <3

Didn't feel like wasting the time writing a novel on the subject when it's ultimately not that important. Short version sufficed.

I could use your help/backing RE: Almost50, here.

Take a look at him.
Take a damn good look at him.
Read my points on him.
Realize he ABSOLUTELY kills Drixx here N1; he ABSOLUTELY kills Ankamius (one of the best players in the game at reading him) N2; realize Drixx held suspicions MIRRORING YOUR OWN that Almost50's role was a scum role; realize Ankamius (again, one of the best players in the game at reading him) scumread him; realize that Severa (who, while an imperfect scumhunter, is still a

good

scumhunter) was scumreading him.

And tell me what you think.

[mastina]

Well, I'm almost half way to being lynched. That's a pretty big thing to put onto one guy.
Now, I could have made it equal and voted Gamma, but that would make me as bad as the people voting me!

RED FLAGS RED FLAGS

Vedith entered the game as the largest wagon--he voted Pink Ball, the largest counterwagon, and avoided voting Gamma...with this bullshit excuse.

Try telling me with a straight face that his reason for not voting Gamma Emerald isn't absolute bullshit.

Mastina, please elaborate on your trajectory with regards to gamme. Because I'm pretty sure you had them as town earlier, when you had the same informarion you do now with regards to the post you're currently calling out as scum spew.

There isn't one, really.

I read it the first time as being one way.

I am reading it again, with the extra context of seeing how Vedith has treated other slots that have since flipped, and am now reading it the opposite way.

I thought Vedith's constant mentioning of Gamma was a pocketing attempt initially, but rereading the iso I read it as partner defense.

[mastina]

Chito: A50 did claim a post restriction and that the post restriction would not cause him to be prodded in the main thread. A post restriction does not make him town with certainty but I do believe the post restriction is likely real.

Repeat after me.

Role != alignment.

His role is real; there's never been any question to that.

The alignment's the important part; I'm pretty sure it's a scum role.

[mastina]

1469 is wrong in ways that are unlikely to come from scum, 73 is a level of early game solving that rarely comes from scum a50 and 1510 works against the way that a50 is more pockety as scum and less combative.

1469 is wrong in exactly the ways I've seen Almost50 be wrong as scum; 73 isn't really game solving; 1510 is responding to me literally the only way which he can; attempting to pocket me would only ensure his lynch and combating me is literally the only way he knows to fight me off.

Considering that AP is A50's "jokey" account, I would say A50's play in this game has a comparable amount of jokiness and random setup speccy stuff compared to Ballroom Blitz, which is a more recent game: viewtopic.php?t=78486&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

That's the problem.

AP

is his

joke

account.

Almost50

is his

serious

account.

The level of

jokiness

/setup spec stuff in this game is comparable to his

joke

account...
...But he is playing on his

serious

account.

You see the issue with that, yes?

[mastina]

Heya @mastina, I have a question: did you read Booneytoonz IX - Under the sea? Or followed it at some point? It ended recently.

My omnipresence only extends over Normals. (And even then I tend to slack on Larges unless I am involved in them.)

I don't see how it's relevant, tho.
The relevant players from there are Maki Harukawa (Elena's danganronpa alt), Clemency (who is dead this game so not that important), you, Vedith (who was scum there just like here), Kaito Momota (who if memory serves me is Dunnstral's danganronpa alt), Wisdom, and Creature (who is dead this game so not that important).

To which of them, from that game, are you referring?

Chito: This is a pretty good sense of where your reads are now but can I see your full reads list atm mastina?

Sure thing.

Torque
Asking for a friend/Pink Ball
Chito and Yuuri
Dunnstral

Reasonably Psychotic
Joan of Arc

Elena Fisher
Near x Mello

Gamma Emerald
Almost50


I want to put Reasonably Psychotic in the top tier, but healthy respect/paranoia for Cerb's talents as scum plus the unlikely chance SuperfluousNinja bussed keep me from HARD hard-clearing him, but he's close enough.

Elena Fisher's not in the clear, but she gets a pass for today.
Near x Mello, Robert voted them and they pushed him back; that COULD be scum theater but my instinct is that it isn't.

Gamma's half-POE a scumread, half my current Vedith take, and half how she insists she can read Almost50 but has him as town when he's surefire scum.

Almost50 is scum on every account--by POE, by Ankamius scumreading him, by Severa scumreading him, by his interactions with flipped scum, sketchy posting throughout the game, by role speculation, and by the nightkills, among other factors.

[mastina]

Chito: I guess I can see where you're coming from a bit better after writing 3456, I can see how at a glance this looks a lot like scum A50. Some of the things I thought he didn't tend to do as scum he actually sometimes does, but I'm still having a hard time seeing him as scum here anyway.

Well then look at all the other factors.

There are four scum in the game--even if Gamma's one of them (which yes I agree with you I think she likely is), she has a partner; who is it?

You agree with the POE of Torque/Pink Ball/Dunnstral/Reasonably Psychotic/Joan as being town...
...Which leaves you a grand total of four names for two scum slots.
If Gamma's scum.
That's still one scum in Elena/NearxMello/Almost50.

POE is HARSH against him.

Even if you ignore the POE pool.

Drixx had setup reasons for suspecting Almost50; do you think that in a ROLE MADNESS game, Drixx was killed exclusively for counterclaiming the scum role? (When there are, in fact, multiple town players--myself included--who have a role acting as a CC to Vedith's, and there are many town roles which CC one another.) We know at this point he wasn't killed to silence his voice in his neighborhood; that theory went debunk when Severa flipped town. Drixx had his eyes on Almost50, for good reason.

Ankamius is one of the best players on mafiascum--dead serious. Well, as town, at least. She's literally one of the worst threats to go up against--while that does mean literally everyone would kill her, it also means she has reason to be respected on her reads...ESPECIALLY her Almost50 read. She is one of the best players at reading Almost50. I rate her ability to read him as better than mine, and according to Joan, she had a rather notable scumread on him.

Severa may have been wrong on Spike/Jet, but RC is also a strong town player; he has a damn good process. He had Almost50 as one of his suspects. While he was vigged, I wouldn't discount the possibility of a scum vig right now, which brings up the question of who as scum would want him dead like that; the answer is, those who were afraid he'd catch them. And Almost50 is in that pool.

There's so much for him being scum, and the most there is for him being town is "he can do this stuff as town; he doesn't have to do this stuff as scum", pretty much. He just makes the most sense as one of the remaining two.

[mastina]

I think N&M probably is getting thrown off because your push on A50 feels scum-motivated if you're townreading A50, which I think it is reasonable to do -- and let's just accept that that is more up for debate than you may think.

Yeah well I'll look forward to how Wisdom bullshits that his reads weren't absolute ass this game when it's shown I'm town and Almost50 was scum like I said so his resistance was working against the town wincon.

[mastina]

if you have any arguments mastina or elena are town im listening

Okay.
I was one of the strongest contributors to getting Vedith lynched D1.
I was one of the strongest proponents for lynching Robert/ooba/SuperfluousNinja. My neighborhood can confirm that I wanted to switch my vote there to the slot D2, and had Spike/Jet not been hammered when they were, I would've switched over.

And today, SuperfluousNinja was hard-tilted because of MY push on him. He freaked out because of MY push on him. I voted him, I was smug about it, and he flipped out because of it--so unless you think he flipped out because I bussed my scumbuddy, after having already bussed a previous scumbuddy. So unless you think that I double-bussed. Unless you think there is another interpretation for SuperfluousNinja's immense freakout.

I am town.

Ank may be good but she was in the thread for like 5 days and was not privy to today's flips, including Toogeloo who might have adjusted her PoE.

Her scumread on Almost50 existed separately from her scumreads elsewhere.

Thus, the flips may have adjusted her other reads, but wouldn't have adjusted her Almost50 read.

Also, no town player is going to have perfect reads, but that doesn't mean you ignore their reads because of the ones which were wrong.

Severa also literally said he just did not read Elena, so it's not like Severa was arguing A50 was scummier than Elena (at least not in this thread, lmk if he posted some night time reads list before he died).

Him ignoring Elena doesn't mean he ignored Almost50; him ignoring Elena doesn't affect how he scumread Almost50.

[mastina]

mastina, I asked you about Booneytoonz IX because of this:

Hi I'm a mason with Clemency.
VOTE: Joan of Arc.
Scum!

How'd you miss the conversation where I said that was referencing the signup thread posts?

Mastina insisted for the whole game that Severa was scum.
Mastina insisted for the whole game that toog was scum.
Is this not enough to establish that even if shes town, her reads should not be treated as gospel?

I did not insist for the whole game Severa was scum--I dropped the push once Severa replaced in.
But, yes. I've made it clear before.
My townreads aren't going to have scum in them, but my scumreads ARE going to have town in them. My POE pool has ALWAYS been, the whole game, about twice the size of the scumteam; even if it were dead on the mark in nailing who the scumteam was, that'd still be a POE pool comprised half of town.

I have townreads on all but four players in the game.
There are two scum alive.
Ergo.
While two players in there are town.
Two are scum.

And there are DAMN fucking strong reasons suggesting Almost50 is one of them.

You said you dont have arguments for mastina or elena being town, therefore you cannot apply PoE.

Elena's IN the POE. I'm not because it is stupendously self-evident that I'm not scum because again.
I'd be double-bussing here.
Me, the girl who wrote the Stop Bussing! article.
Double-bussing.
And not in the way I normally bus, either.

Yes, I can do anything as scum, so I CAN do that as scum--I just wouldn't.
And even if I would--still doesn't explain SuperfluousNinja's freakout on my push on him.

How does night kill analysis point to Almost being scum in your opinion?

Because Drixx died; Ankamius died. Both had other reasons to die and Almost50 isn't going to kill someone JUST because they scumread him...but they both scumread him.

[mastina]

Killing a bunch of players who can read A50 could be achieved by a player who wants to frame A50 while he can't post and vote in the main thread.

Sorry, but nobody does frame-kills.

Literally nobody.

Frame kills are moronic; wrong-town can do a better job of pushing through a mislynch while ALIVE than while dead.

Which, as scum, is better?

Wrong-town pushing through a mislynch while scum take the back seat, setting the town player up for self-discrediting (and by extent, allowing scum to better/more easily influence the gamestate)...

...OR.

Wrong-town being nightkilled, and scum pushing through their preferred mislynch, ending up putting themselves in the spotlight and discrediting themselves, making it harder for themselves to influence the gamestate?

Ten times out of ten, the former is more effective than the latter. The latter forces the scum to expose themselves; the latter forces the scum to push the narrative; the latter forces the scum to risk self-discrediting themselves; the latter risks putting the scum in a position where they can't stop their own mislynch.

Whereas the former only cements their favorable position in the town.

So no.

Scum don't frame kill. Because they know frame-killing is stupid and counter-productive. Frame-killing long-term loses them the game, because they kill the wrong town leaving the right town alive to push them.

she said Toog had to die as soon as possible; and maybe the worst of it, she was scumreading singletonking who was obvtown after calling out Vedith for claiming an Anime that aired on 2007.

Hey, guess what.
I said those same things about Toogeloo, and even better--I accused singletonking of having TMI in our neighborhood; the way he handled end of D2 was incredibly sketchy-as-fuck. (Granted, I still thought him town, but I warned him in there, "I would sooner lynch you for TMI than I would Chito/Yuuri", who he was accusing of having bad end-of-D2 interactions. THE POINT BEING. There was good reason to see him as scum, even if there were better reasons to see him as town.)

I scumread robert and ooba all game.

Sure, but when push came to shove, did you vote SuperfluousNinja?

...Yeah I thought not. In fact, quite the opposite--you called me scum for pushing it; you called Reasonably Psychotic scum for pushing it. Don't pretend you didn't, because it's right there in your posts, big gigantic "I'M NOT LYNCHING SUPERFLUOUSNINJA BECAUSE HE'S NOT SCUM; THE PEOPLE PUSHING HIM ARE" neon signs like this one, among many others:

this lynch is stupid
theres no way both mastina and rp are town and theyre both content lynching this

The lynch was NOT stupid, given it was. Yaknow. A lynch on fucking scum.

A50 thinks the wolves are between Dunnstral/Elena/Mastina

And he's 0 for 3 in there because beyond this being stupendously self-evidently Dunnstral's towngame, he was THE hardest pusher of SuperfluousNinja's slot being scum across the whole game, and I am town, and frankly Elena's not scum here, either.

[mastina]

I was one of the strongest contributors to getting Vedith lynched D1.
I was one of the strongest proponents for lynching Robert/ooba/SuperfluousNinja

Bullshit. You voted vedith very reluctantly and said you dont think hes flipping scum.

Which mind you is proof that I'm town because if I were scum I wouldn't have shown any doubts.
But I never said I was the strongest believer in getting Vedith lynched.
I said I was one of the strongest CONTRIBUTORS to getting Vedith lynched.

I pushed Vedith on the flavor point, bringing up the new evidence; I also strongly advocated that "of all our lynch candidates, he's the most likely to be scum", which I went into in EXTREME detail in my neighborhood. Speaking of, in there, I early-on pushed the point that Vedith's pushing of mastina vs. Pink Ball as TownvTown was likely just an attempt at getting cheap towncred; Torque and I actually fought about it a little. (I was right.)

You had a ton of other scumreads above Robert at all times and only pushed hik when everyone wanted to push him.

I never stopped pushing him. I never stopped pushing him at any point. I had other scumreads above Robert, yes--but these scumreads were scumreads I had plans for.

Robert's slot was my third strongest scumread.
My second-strongest was Toogeloo--who I had a plan to eliminate during the night. I never needed to push Toogeloo and my neighborhood can vouch for me when I said that I gave reasons for him being scum but said, "I'm not bringing these to the main thread right now because they would be a distraction from a slot that will resolve itself overnight", more or less.

My strongest scumread was Morality/Flavor Leaf--a push I promptly and IMMEDIATELY dropped once Severa started playing.

Hey genius.

Simple process.
I dropped my Severa, strongest-scumread, push.
I didn't push Toogeloo.
Robert was my third-strongest scumread at that point in the game.
Now who, pray tell, was I pushing if not Severa and if not Toogeloo?

and more bullshit im not going to answer to

AKA, "mastina's right and I have no way of countering it".

[mastina]

Town you would be all over her due to poe if nothing else

Ehhh fuck it.

Elena's a member of my neighborhood and I have damn good reason to believe she's town from content within.

There.

[mastina]

Which mind you is proof that I'm town because if I were scum I wouldn't have shown any doubts.

Exercise time.

In the last five years.

Find a single scum game of mine where I showed public reluctance when casting a bus vote.

Genuinely, seriously, challenging you to do this.

I'm pretty sure you won't find any.

Maybe further back than five years, sure.
And you will find bus votes, yeah.
But you won't see reluctant bus votes.
You'll see hard, fast, strong push bus votes where I call them scum, repeatedly, with conviction.

So when I say it's proof that I'm town.
I mean it's pretty fucking strong proof.
That I am town.

[mastina]

Spoiler: Extensive list of scumgames last five years

mystery box of silver
more songs
A Story Revisited
Minuet's Trio
Turn of Camn
XP Mafia
Organization XIII
Inventions Mafia
Newbie 1814
WWF Mafia
The Mystery At King's Landing
Civilization Mafia
Green Day UPick
Star Wars Rogue One
UNI MUM
Disney Villain
Inorganic Chemistry
molliegeddon
World of Mafiacraft
Newbie 1465
NY 172
Paranoia
Book of Shadows
Attack on Titan
Left 4 Dead
Micro 264
Micro 242
Micro 241
Micro 226
Mini 1530
Theater Season Mafia
Micro 195
Newbie 1378
Anything Goes
Shadows and Lights
The Walking Dead
Void Mountain Nightless
Buzzword Bingo
Micro 116
The Mind Reader
Playing With Fire
/in-vitational 15
Politics Mafia
Discworld Mafia

There maaaaaay be a mini normal or two not included, all alts are excluded, any hydra I didn't post on my main is excluded, but this is a pretty extensive list of my scumgames.

[mastina]

(And yes I did just spend all of that time compiling these, it's not something I have a list of for convenient reference.)

[mastina]

like in what world do i play like this as scum

Honestly I wouldn't say it's so much that you're scum.

As it is you're just getting in the way of progressing the game towards a town victory.

I wanted to lynch SuperfluousNinja--you fought me there.

I want to lynch Almost50--you're fighting me there.
An alternative lynch is Gamma Emerald--you're fighting Chito/Yuuri there.

If I thought the town would genuinely be better off lynching you as a policy-lynch in spite of knowing you're town?

I'd be awfully tempted to take that, yes.

[mastina]

Chito: Why can't we all just join hands, sing kumbaya, and lynch gamma emerald?

We can as a compromise but dammit let me fight for lynching Almost50 first.

[mastina]

like in what world do i play like this as scum

A question, mind you.

You utterly ignore when it's applied to me.

I've a proven track record of NOT playing this way as scum.

You discard it all.

And you're surprised when someone wants you dead?

Can't have your cake and eat it too, m'friend.

[mastina]

Youve proven shit, youre playing exactly like you play as scum

To the contrary.
I've linked to every prior scumgame.
Within which is records of my play.
Strong, confident pushes on scumbuddies when bussing, compared and contrasted to my Vedith push.
The push on SuperfluousNinja after being down a scumbuddy on D1, when I have a proven track record of being adverse to bussing.

Pretending these things aren't valid doesn't make them so.

This is not how I play as scum and every player who has experience with me knows for it.
Yes, I can do anything as scum--so yes, this COULD be me as scum, because yes just because I haven't done it before as scum doesn't mean I couldn't do it as scum, but again. Just because I can do it doesn't mean I would. And all the evidence is there that I'm not.

I don't take direct control of the game as scum--I've been pushing for that alpha position since the start of D2. As scum, I can sometimes be handed the alpha position...in which case, I will then promptly fake reluctance for it (when my real emotion is, "SCORE!" at the :easywin:). As scum my modus operandi is to let the town destroy itself while I lurk in the shadows, garnering support by way of having proven myself to not be responsible for the moronic mislynches and to carve out the image that I couldn't be responsible for the town's failings because I wasn't in the midst of it.

Yet this game I have been going hard-out since D2. I have been pushing as hard as I can, as much as I can--yes, I push people hard as scum, but when I push people hard as scum, I do so more in the veins of vanity; I target people I know I won't actually lynch, because the people who I target can then continue to be targeted, to be tunneled, by me for days and days. No need to readjust my reads when my pushed scumreads are all alive days later because my pushes failed to get them lynched.

But here I have adjusted my reads many times, switching them. Yes, I can and have done this as scum, but it is a trend I tend not to.
Here I have pushed players hard and continuously, vying for the spot as town leader--not sure I've done this as scum, but yes, I could do it as scum...yet the very fact that I can't be sure I've done it is proof that there's a trend where I tend not to.
Here I have been trying to coordinate with big-name town players and to establish a rock-solid townbloc, a town core, from which to POE the scum and lynch them--I'm pretty sure I don't do this as scum.
Here I have been trying to rally people behind my banner--something I avoid doing as scum, because the more I try to be a town leader, the more eyes are actively paying attention to every move I make, every "misplay" that I then have to write off.
I don't often bus my scumbuddies--and when I do, it's usually just one. I know that I need scumbuddies to survive, and have gone on record multiple times to say that in about every single instance where I've been the last scum member of my team alive, I've lost. I run risk-reward analysis and the risk of being fucked over by not having the extra scum is almost never worth the reward of cheap towncred.

This is, absolutely, the polar opposite of my scumgame.

[mastina]

also i find it hilarious that both mastina and elena are magically these grand depth scumhunters who see I am town here. I promise you that both of them would be scumreading me if they were town. But no, they portray me as a town clown here because that's what works best for them.

You're in the POE pool.

The only two reasons I think you're town are:
-I think Almost50 and Gamma Emerald are scum, thus, everyone else is town including you, and...
-You have Robert interactions indicating you're not scum.

That's it. It's enough where I'm not pushing you as the lynch because I think you're more likely than not to be town, but push come to shove? You're in the POE pool; I absolutely would lynch you in a heartbeat, no hesitation--with no regrets, either.

[mastina]

have fun throwing

Yep, sure have fun with your game throwing because that is EXACTLY what you're doing right now.

I know I am town.

I know that you are refusing to push actual scum because of your fucking ego thinking that I am scum in spite of objective facts that show why that isn't the case.

Because fragile little Wisdom.
Can't confess.
That maybe.
Just MAYBE.

I am actually fucking town here.

how fucking hard is it for people to detect manipulation

People can detect manipulation just fine.

You're just seeing it where none exists and everyone else knows it, so.

How can you read mastina claiming she pushed vedith and go "oh, ok, shes right" WHEN SHE DID NOT PUSH VEDITH ONE BIT?

And you put words in my mouth I didn't say.

I never said I pushed Vedith.

I said I contributed majorly to his lynch--I did.

I pounded in that his flavor claim couldn't be true, while also bringing up points (admittedly mostly in the neighborhood PT) about him painting mastina-Pink Ball as TvT being for cheap towncred. I said he was the best chance for getting a scum flip on D1 (this is very public). Just because I didn't push doesn't mean I didn't contribute; my contribution was vital to that lynch.

[mastina]

So I really wanna show the writings I did at work both for today and for when I originally wrote the softclaim (you'd be able to tell I wrote it a day before posting it, but for ~reasons~ couldn't get around to posting it until the next day), not for proof I did it or anything so much as because for a long time now I've been wanting to give pragmatic samples of my handwriting to show off. (I've shown off my handwriting before...but it was a forced attempt, where I was writing for the sake of writing--instead of writing what I normally do every single day. I want to show off some of that every-day writing and mafiascum content would be a good way to do so.)

Unfortunately, while we have a scanner, the connection to the desktop was never properly set up, so I won't be able to do that. The only workaround I know is taking a photo, posting it to skype on my phone, then downloading the image on my computer to upload to an image site, but that'd require sending it to someone else and I'd rather not do that. So for now, ah well, no way of showing the original.

Alas.

This is ultimately fluff, though, because I'd probably need to type it up regardless and make small edits here and there, tweaks to it to better give flow to it.

Basically.

Today, I am going to do something, that normally, I wouldn't do.

I am going to go to a length which is far beyond what I normally do. I've almost never done it as town, and, heck, even as scum I've tended to avoid doing it though that is the alignment I've done it more as. It fell out of favor because it was usually more trouble than it was worth regardless of alignment. Yet in this case. Just this once. My patience has worn thin enough where I've deemed it's worth it.

I've got nothing else to do all day (barring the unlikely event of girlfriend time--which, admittedly, could happen; will be a bit awkward if I promise to do this very large, time-intensive stuff, writing up gigantic walls...and then midway through, leave because "oh, girlfriend time, sorry", but OH WELL. I'll take the risk. Girlfriend takes priority over all, but I want to TRY to get this all done before they could call me away). I also don't need to go to bed particularly early, either. So I've got nothing but free time and that means this is something worth tackling.

So let me tell you exactly what I'm going to do, here.

1:

I am going to definitively prove that the Elena-mastina scumteam is an impossible combo.

I have a trump card here that my neighborhood might be able to guess (apparently people skipped over the fact that Elena is part of the Torque-singleton-Dunnstral-mastina neighborhood, but it's not an insignificant detail)--something Elena may not be happy with me (as she's made it clear she doesn't want her role revealed outside of the neighborhood), but fuckit, I'm shutting down this bullshit right here and now, so we can actually lynch scum.

2:

I am going to prove what I promised my neighborhood earlier today.

When I was at work, I laid out the bare bone basics. Essentially, that Wisdom's case is shit, ignoring key parts of my post history which were inconvenient because they shot his narrative full of holes--including a rather notable chronology problem in his narrative. He made points which when looking at the time, fall apart because the timing's wrong.

3:

I am going to prove why the Drixx kill is evidence that I am town.

By showing why I'd never kill him N1; I can quite extensively prove this with the requisite time because it has strong backing behind it. The Drixx kill beyond all doubt is evidence I am town because Drixx is never a player I kill N1 under ANY circumstance. Not even if he claimed a cop, frankly. But more on this when I actually make the point.

4:

Most importantly of all, I know for a

FACT

that SuperfluousNinja tilted because of me.

I will demonstrate exactly why. Now, mind you. I will admit. Proof of him tilting because of me does not prove I'm town, because I can't prove he wasn't a scumbuddy being tilted because of me. But the fact that he was tilted because of me should be strong evidence I am town, and I can show it quite easily. I WILL fucking prove the tilt was because of me, guaranteed. This, mind you--the reason I say this is the most important of all--is the whole fucking reason I'm doing all of this. The whole reason I am doing this, because there should be absolutely NO fucking realm where I am EVER in ANY fucking risk of ever being mislynched, thanks to what happened.
I wouldn't be bothering to prove I'm town if it weren't for this. Because this, and this alone, should be fucking reason enough to know that mislynching me is literally doing the scum's work for them because they know that the tilt was because of me just as well as I do.

5:

I am going to respond to all other posts.

Especially Cerb, since he should fucking KNOW better and know precisely why I am town here when I launch into tirades like I am. Fuck "I can do it as scum", fuck "not alignment indicative", fuck "not outside her scumrange", I can do anything as scum but there's the matter of what I WILL do as scum and he should fucking know that when I am this passionate about something and when I am pushing this strongly there is a fucking STRONG reason nigh-impossible to fake as scum for it.

But more than him, because this will take me hours to accomplish, and because I've already got two pages' worth of posts to address (including Cerb's flavorclaim idea; I have thoughts on that but I'll get around to them once I am done with all of the above), I'll have more to do even once I finish those. Especially since, due to the time this will take, there will no doubt be Near x Mello posts responding to these posts--warranting me responding to their responses.

And I'll be doing these things in about that order, so get ready for it and have some patience; each of these points will probably take me 1-2 hours each, meaning about 10 hours spent total, give or take a little. (And that's assuming I work continuously, since there is a limit to my stamina; that is literally my only limitation here, in fact. But I don't think breaks will be long to delay that much further.)

Trust me; it'll be worth the wait.

[mastina]

Oh whoops.

I forgot a point.

I

knew

there were supposed to be six.

This'll be around point 3 or 4, bumping the SuperfluousNinja to 5th priority and the response to other posts as the sixth priority. (Or maybe I'll do it after SuperfluousNinja, because it'll be switching from defense to offense, rather than defense-offense-defense.)

It's something you could technically say is part of the "Wisdom's full of shit" point, but it is separate enough that it is worth being its own, given the difference.

6:

I will be full casing Almost50.

Compiling the entirety of the case--the REAL case, not Wisdom's misrep of it--in one spot so it's all together as a single entity. Including posts I neglected to mention aside from vague references the first time around.

This is technically speaking one of the most important parts, but at this stage permanently shutting down the mastina lynch is high enough on my priority list that the rest is included anyway, because as long as Near x Mello is fucking gamethrowing like this by pursuing the player who is literally the most town in the game right now (or as town as I can possibly get anyway given natural scum competency) and as long as they get even an iota of support, we're not fucking lynching scum like we should.

[mastina]

That said:

PUBLIC EVENT

mastina becomes Loved!

Until the end of Day 3, mastina requires one more vote to be lynched!

This was not from any action of mine; I didn't do this. I don't know who did it, either, since nobody in my neighborhood has yet claimed responsibility for it.

That said:

PUBLIC EVENT

mastina becomes Loved!

Until the end of Day 3, mastina requires one more vote to be lynched!

This was not from any action of mine; I didn't do this. I don't know who did it, either, since nobody in my neighborhood has yet claimed responsibility for it.

Someone from the neighborhood did in fact claim responsibility for this, explaining where it came from.

Town you would be all over her due to poe if nothing else

Ehhh fuck it. Elena's a member of my neighborhood and I have damn good reason to believe she's town from content within. There.

These are not unrelated.

Elena was the one who made me Loved today.

The reason that this is proof that I'm not scum with Elena is quite simple:
If I were scum with Elena, then I was the one who had her target me to become Loved. I'd know it in advance, because it was my doing.
Mind you, as scum I'd never allow Loved to be used on scum; it is far better used for towncred by targeting a town player and making them Loved. A win-win scenario; if you get towncred, good for you; if you are lynched, it makes them look like your scumbuddy. I wouldn't allow scum to use a positive action on a scumbuddy like that, unless I was planning on leaving the positive action unclaimed altogether.

But I can't prove that, even though it is stupendously self-evident because it's just common fucking sense.
I can't prove that I would never allow a scum player to make their scumbuddy Loved...

...But I CAN prove that I'd know it in advance, that if it were my doing, I'd have been prepared.
How?

Simple.

Because I posted 3214.
Why does that prove that I didn't know about the action in advance?

Because as scum, I will deliberately go inactive until my scumbuddy has claimed responsibility for the action.
And that?
THAT, I can prove...because I've done it no less than twice, recently.

When the worst got a guilty result on Kokichi Oma, on Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:33 pm, I had an opportunity to post in the game thread; Kokichi Oma was a scumread, so I'd be obligated to bus-vote him...but I didn't want to. That being July 4th (a holiday that if memory serves causes the Y to close entirely), I am fairly certain I wasn't at work that day (though I'd have to do a little more research to check); I had every opportunity to post...but I held off until after Kokichi Oma had claimed, at Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:14 pm.

In fact.

Checking my online activity--this took a while to find, but is worth it.
Proving I was online and active around that time, to read it and NOT post, deliberately?

Subject: Lynch the Wolves: Mod PT

Sorry... another question

If I target a player to Drain (assuming it would be successful) and am targeted by someone else for the kill that same night will I qualify for revival?

Answer:

If you have not successfully drained in the game, then if you drain someone the same night you are nightkilled, you will die.

If you have successfully drained in the game, then it doesn't matter if you drain someone the same night you are nightkilled; you have succeeded in draining, and thus you will not die.

A successful drain is defined as your ability not having failed (e.g. being roleblocked, being jailkept, target being ascetic, target commuting, target being rolestopped, and numerous similar failure methods).

However, you are given no way of knowing the difference between your ability having failed, and your ability having succeeded yet simply targeting someone that did not have an ability you could copy; both would, identically, produce the same result of, "Unfortunately, you did not receive any abilities."

That was before Kokichi Oma posted.

I stalled, because I knew it'd be more convenient for me to come in after Kokichi Oma had claimed something.

(Keep in mind that for the last year, little bit longer in fact, I've been skimreading everything I have investment in BEFORE logging online to read it again/respond to it when applicable. So said post at 3:10 pm was after I'd been reading the thread enough to know what was going on.)

But wait!
There's more.

Another game showing that trend of deliberately waiting until my scumbuddy posts before I myself post.

You can check out the interaction here to see it. And the beginning of the in-thread post.

They were both at around the same time, Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:15 pm--PT first, before thread...
...And then

I kept posting in the scum PT

.
This post was made Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:57 pm, meaning I had a chance to post in the game thread...
...But

I held back

, because

I was waiting for NicoRobin

.

And I even

ate a prod

for my ruse. I fucking ate a prod, to avoid having that insider info. To wait for NicoRobin to claim her result.
RC gave the results on Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:08 am.
I didn't post, rather deliberately, until she claimed her result, at Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:16 pm.

I went out of my way to avoid posting before the roleclaim.

That is how I operate as scum. Those are the two immediate examples I can think of from recent scumgames, but if I bothered to do the research further I'm sure I'd see that same exact trend in other scumgames of mine--where I wait for my scumbuddy's action to be claimed (the action I had them submit) BEFORE I react to it.

Yet here I reacted to it before Elena claimed it...
...Because I had no awareness of the action...
...Because we are not scumbuddies.

[mastina]

Also, for reference, Elena claimed responsibility for the action on Wednesday, not too terribly long after 3214 (a few hours).

Let me tell you about my work schedule that Wednesday.
I started work at 2:30 pm (I always leave an hour early, so that meant leaving circa 1:30ish) and worked until 9 pm--I happened to forget my phone that day, so I had no way of checking mafiascum during that time. I did post prior to leaving, and intended to post once home, too. (Although I was kept away from posting, regrettably, for reasons.)

If I were scum with Elena, I wouldn't have posted before work at all; I'd have a perfectly viable excuse. Nobody would expect me to post on mafiascum before work, because on literally every other day of the week I wait until after work to post. There was no need for me to post right then, because I had every intention, every plan, of posting that evening. I'd lose nothing by waiting those hours, but gain the chance to explain where the Loved came from fluidly, promptly, and without delays.

But because I'm not scum with her, I was surprised to see that I was Loved just as much as everyone except for her was. And that was something I needed to address. I had woken up early enough to check mafiascum, and decided to post (if memory serves me, I posted during the half hour I was waiting for my pill to take effect prior to eating breakfast since the pill requires me to eat exactly half an hour after taking it and I didn't feel like spending that time asleep)--but as scum, I could have gotten away with not posting and simply waited.

[mastina]

Mind you, as scum I'd never allow Loved to be used on scum; it is far better used for towncred by targeting a town player and making them Loved. A win-win scenario; if you get towncred, good for you; if you are lynched, it makes them look like your scumbuddy. I wouldn't allow scum to use a positive action on a scumbuddy like that, unless I was planning on leaving the positive action unclaimed altogether.

But I can't prove that, even though it is stupendously self-evident because it's just common fucking sense.

Actually, thinking about it.

I CAN prove it.

It's from one of the same games I referenced, in fact.

It's called I claimed Loyal Gladiator--a trueclaim if you invert Loyal to Disloyal--and used that role every single day I was able to.

A role which was basically, quite literally, treated as a mislynch doctor.
A role keeping the town from mislynching, because after I gladiated a person they would just no-lynch.
A role which generated conftown every single day.

I used liberally.

Because that's how I operate as scum.

I forbid using beneficial actions on scumbuddies, and encourage using detrimental actions on scumbuddies, to set up false associatives and prevent the town from locking down the scumteam.

So that's TWO reasons that Elena and I aren't scumbuddies.

Yes that doesn't prove beyond all doubt we're both town, but at least on the mastina side of things I can prove I'm not scum further.

[mastina]

Let's look at the contribution:

Yes, let's.

Let's look at it all, and not just the select posts you gave for your specific narrative.

Also SSBF proly town

Nooooo not really. He's not a scumread but he's the closest thing to being one without being one.

For context:
In my readslist D1, I was

really

struggling to form reads.

I made this VERY well known, that I had:
-My strongest townread was a mid-tiered townread;
-Most of my townreads were weak
-The VAST majority of the playerlist were various shades of null
-I didn't have many scumreads at all.

So when I said "closest thing to being a scumread without being one".
That meant "near the absolute bottom of my reads list--and absolutely worth lynching".

Wow, this game is not very interesting for me for some reason

Yeah I said something to that effect in my PT, so. Can verify--not in the same sense, way it manifests for me is quite different, but it's there as a thing.

are you trying to get us nked n1 bro

Should I claim?

Yeh, Vedith is definitely town.

With reads like these?

Nahhh you're good, bro. You're living for a long, long time with reads like those. A VERY long time.

Here, I further hinted at my trouble gathering reads; when I said I was having trouble with the game and could empathize, that was what I meant. I also called Spike/Jet's townread on Vedith a bad read to have.

I don't particularly have townreads, so much as I have "not groupscum" reads combined with "I don't want to lynch these people yet" reads, with the people in my lynch list being more "I'd be willing to lynch here" more than real proper scumreads. (Well, for most except maybe some of my bottom four. Particularly Cerb.)

Fair's fair when it comes to sharing tho, and I've been meaning to get this into the thread for a while.

Robert2424
Joan of Arc
Dunnstral
Almost50
Gamma Emerald
Super Smash Bros. Fan/Vedith
Near x Mello
Asking for a friend/Pink Ball
Toogeloo
Reasonably Psychotic

People above this point in my readslist are in the "point of being where I don't think they're groupscum".
The top of this list is "players who I don't want to lynch yet"; the middle of this list is "people who I'd be okay with lynching as a compromise", and the bottom four are preferred lynches.
So my reads aren't exactly in a better state I'll freely admit that but they're diametrically opposed to pretty much all of Creature's right now.

Further outlining a willingness to compromise on Vedith as a lynch.

Chito: Mastina, would you like to join our team and put your vote on Vedith?

Honestly my hopes aren't high that he'd be scum. Quite the opposite I kinda think he's town. I'll vote there to get a lynch, especially since we don't

need

to use every day on our deadline (it's a week away), but I just kinda feel like.

Well. We shouldn't drag the day out just for the sake of dragging the day out. But I just am hoping that

something

, ANYTHING, productive can come of today? When I don't think it will right now. Like, I don't want to drag the day out if it won't accomplish anything, but my fear is that ending the day early also won't accomplish anything.

And my only reason to really vote Vedith is to get that lynch now, to end the day earlier rather than later.

It just feels like we need something, and I'm not convinced a flip alone gives us that something.

Here my objection to voting Vedith was that we wouldn't get information--an objection that came prior to my Pink Ball push; once I had pushed Pink Ball, something productive

had

come from the day, with me having turned a scumread around (I have proof I wasn't scumreading Pink Ball at the end of the day) and with said Vedith flip, having cemented the foundations of it altogether.

I promised I'd vote Vedith when there was reason to--and I followed through on that promise.

Super Smash Bros. Fan/Vedith
Near x Mello
Asking for a friend/Pink Ball
Toogeloo
Reasonably Psychotic

Btw, for some clarity on my feelings there. Yeah I know my reads aren't great.
But I still feel there's a minimum of one scum in here--and actually feel it's at least two. It could be as high as three.
I'd be flabbergasted if I got four (I'm never that good), but this would be an

incredibly

off game if there wasn't at least one in there.
Reasonably Psychotic and Toogeloo are the strongest two, so my best bet, though honestly Near x Mello might be my third-strongest there.

Vedith is, by far, the weakest, in that while I didn't think SSBF's content was good, I lack the meta familiarity to give context for his play, and Vedith here is harder to read but vaguely gives off some :goodvibes: overall.

He's a compromise read more than anything else.

The bolded is important--I made it very fucking clear that I knew I couldn't get a Reasonably Psychotic lynch. I knew my vote there was a waste, that I would need to move it. It was a statement more than anything else. I would need to compromise, I would need to vote someone who was a lesser scumread.

Near x Mello ran into the same problems as Reasonably Psychotic; even though I was scumreading them, I would never have gotten a lynch there on D1. That left three compromise options: Vedith, Pink Ball, and Toogeloo. Toogeloo, the consensus was, "hey mastina, if you can make a case there we'll follow", but I didn't have the energy for that and knew it--leaving Pink Ball and Vedith as the realistic options.

Remind me which of them I chose?

Oh yeah.

Vedith.

Because Vedith was my compromise lynch option, and I did exactly that--I compromised on lynching him. You can see me outline this philosophy for Pink Ball here:

mastina, since you're scumreading Vedith and Pink Ball, why aren't you voting either?

You apparently didn't read right if you thought I was scumreading Vedith.

As for why not Pink Ball, I realize it might seem a little difficult to grasp given that I have pushed so hard on Pink Ball, but--he is actually my

weakest

scumread. The scumread I am

most

likely to be wrong on. The scumread I have the least confidence in. The scumread who is the most likely of my scumreads to actually be town. (That is, incidentally, part of the reason I pushed him in the first place, mind you.) I'll vote him, but he's not my preferred lynch.

And it is no less true for Vedith than it was Pink Ball--he was the 'scumread' I was most likely to be wrong at during end of day one (wasn't really a scumread, even), but I was willing to compromise there; I was willing to lynch there.

Chito: Mastina-chan you should join us on Vedith-kun

mastina, since you're scumreading Vedith and Pink Ball, why aren't you voting either?

You apparently didn't read right if you thought I was scumreading Vedith.

Vedith is, by far, the weakest, in that while I didn't think SSBF's content was good, I lack the meta familiarity to give context for his play, and Vedith here is harder to read but vaguely gives off some :goodvibes: overall. He's a compromise read more than anything else.

Chito: Mastina, would you like to join our team and put your vote on Vedith?

Honestly my hopes aren't high that he'd be scum. Quite the opposite I kinda think he's town. I'll vote there to get a lynch, especially since we don't

need

to use every day on our deadline (it's a week away), but I just kinda feel like.
And my only reason to really vote Vedith is to get that lynch now, to end the day earlier rather than later.

So it's not that I won't join you, it's that I just would prefer not to.

My preference was lynching Reasonably Psychotic--a lynch I knew I wouldn't get.
When I said I would prefer not to, it was exactly that; preference. But when you compromise, you make sacrifices and allow things that would normally be against your preference to happen.

Mastina do you mind casing Cerb slot or something or have some sort of meta from him I can read through because i respect that thats where you want to lynch but it's a useless vote if you don't do something about it

Oh I hold no illusions about getting a Cerb lynch today. My vote's more of a statement than anything; the longer I can keep it there, the clearer my intent to follow through there will be. I don't have the energy to case him today (and by that I mean this day phase), to be honest; some things are just...more fatiguing than other things.

He's my strongest scumread, but I don't think I could ever get a lynch there on D1. If I had some support

prior to

me writing the case, then writing the case to get others on board with the idea would be worth it. But with no support prior to the case, even if I write the case, it won't garner the support necessary.

My efforts would be better spent casing Toogeloo or maybe, maybe, MAYBE Near x Mello. A Cerb scumteam pretty much never nightkills me N1 (frankly I'd be flabbergasted if a Cerb scumteam did; it

might

have happened

once

--need to double-check that--but if so that game's the exception to the general rule where he doesn't), so it's not a high-priority thing for me. I can write the case on any day prior to my nightkill, and I generally have a fairly decent sense of when I'll die.

I'm not gonna die N1 this game (unless to a lolvig), so I can afford to wait. Now, for players like Toogeloo though, I'd be happy to case them, though I don't have the energy to case him today (and by that I mean real life day). Cases are fatiguing regardless of on whom. A Cerb case is ten times more fatiguing than a Toogeloo case, but a Toogeloo case still is too much for me to manage today. (Did you know that Saturdays are

supposed

to be my rest day? My day off? I used to have a permanent V/LA on weekends where I wouldn't post much if I posted at all. There's good reason for that; I get burned out easily if I don't take the time off.)

Here I lay it out more explicitly even.
Clear as day.
I say.
"I can't get my scumreads lynched today."
I can't get my scumreads lynched--
What does that mean?

I go for people who aren't my scumreads, but aren't my townreads.
Players who I don't think will flip scum, but am willing to vote because they

could

flip scum.
Players...like Vedith, who was just above my four scumreads at that point in time.

The list of people I want to lynch is something like {Vedith, Gamma, Near x Mello, RP, Drixx, Pink Ball}

If we got a "one add, one subtract", our lists would be identical, with the name subtracted being Drixx and the name added being Toogeloo.

You don't need to convince me to vote Vedith; I'll vote there when deadline's within 48 hours or if I feel there's a strong compelling reason to end the day earlier than that.

Wisdom conveniently left out this post which was pretty fucking important because it doesn't get more blatant than this.
I outright said that "I am willing to lynch {Vedith, Gamma, Near x Mello, Reasonably Psychotic, Toogeloo, Pink Ball}". That's literally what I said.
I literally said I needed no convincing to vote Vedith.
I literally promised.
Fucking PROMISED.
That if we hit under 48 hours, or if there was a compelling reason to do so earlier, I'd vote Vedith.

Basically I raised a LOT of good points, but I know just as well as anyone that just because a point is good, does not mean a point is

right

. The debate wasn't whether there were reasons for you to be scum--there were--but rather, whether those reasons were accurate. That? That was the near-tossup.

Incidentally I PMed the mod with why this actually bears some relevancy to this game.

All I'm getting out of this entire interaction is Vedith is probably town unless Vedith and Pink Ball are both wolves because he doesn't have any motivation to say his counterwagon is a town when Pink Ball has this much pressure on him currently

This may surprise you but my take is actually the opposite; Vedith taking the stance that Pink Ball-mastina's TvT in the way he did was actually a

blow

to his already-sparse towncred for me...
...And if he's scum, it's because Pink Ball isn't.

Vedith-Pink Ball here is never scum-scum to me.

That PM I mentioned? That was me outlining to the mod that I was having severe doubts on Pink Ball and was beginning to suspect he was town, more or less. I paraphrased it in the neighborhood PT (it's what Torque townread me for because he thought I couldn't do it as scum, but like I said, I can and have, so).

But the important part of the post was here.

I explicitly said.

"Vedith taking the stance that Pink Ball-mastina's townVtown hurts his chances of being town; if he's scum, Pink Ball isn't".
Note I didn't say that if Pink Ball were scum, Vedith wouldn't be. That would've conveyed much the same meaning, but with a different connotation.
I specifically said if Vedith were scum, Pink Ball wasn't--because THIS was the point where the shift was happening in my reads.

I did promise to do this while we got under 48 hours tho:

Vote: Vedith

.

And exactly as I fucking said I would.
I compromised on Vedith.
Because I promised I'd vote there to get a lynch.

Also, Drixx wagon is horribad.

Mind you I couldn't go into detail while snowed in, but I did what little I could to shut down the Drixx wagon while limited as extremely as I was. Because the Drixx wagon was something I knew should not go through.

I don’t want Drixx, Mastina, Vedith, or Gamma today.
VOTE: Pink Ball

I might be wrong on one of them, but I don’t think more than one from that group is scum, and eventually figuring that out can be a major boon to the town. With a day left, I don’t want to sit on Not Voting.

I can tell you Drixx is town, so the real question would be Vedith/Gamma. I can tell you I

believe

Gamma's town and

I don't have that same townread on Vedith

, but I can't say that's a strong read.

Here I push towards the Vedith lynch--I say that I don't have the same townread on Vedith, making him a better lynch.

His claim is from a 2007 show and i could be wrong but the sequel isnt after 2010 either

Also, if you recall:
Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [FULL! PM TO REPLACEMENT/SPECTATE]

Question.

Note that any anime that is a sequel to those that aired before 2010 is not allowed (sorry Sailor Moon Crystal and UQ Holder fans).

Can I loophole abuse this with a prequel?

Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [FULL! PM TO REPLACEMENT/SPECTATE]

Also question.
Is an anime that's a different adaption of the same source material eligible? That being, an older anime is for the material, but there's a new anime for the same source material which isn't picking up where the old one left off and is starting from scratch?

Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [FULL! PM TO REPLACEMENT/SPECTATE]

Question.

Note that any anime that is a sequel to those that aired before 2010 is not allowed (sorry Sailor Moon Crystal and UQ Holder fans).

Can I loophole abuse this with a prequel?

Prequel and sequel is merely the same thing.

Also question.
Is an anime that's a different adaption of the same source material eligible? That being, an older anime is for the material, but there's a new anime for the same source material which isn't picking up where the old one left off and is starting from scratch?

As long as myanimelist.net doesn't identify that as a sequel/prequel/whatever, then fine, you can use it.

This seems relevant.

Wisdom mentioned this, but what he neglected was that I did MORE:

In other words, This is what the mod said they'd use. That search is what the mod would see.

And, yes.
Premiered: Fall 2007
Aired: Jul 16, 2008
Premiered: Fall 2008
Aired: Jul 1, 2009
Aired: Sep 15, 2007

Not a single one of those is 2010 or later; the latest of them was 2009.

Also since Wisdom included this post, let me address it:

(Still don't think Vedith's flipping scum, by the way. Just, think he's the lynch candidate who gave us the best chances of flipping scum.)

Anyone who thinks this was an attempt to dissuade the Vedith wagon blatantly Didn't Do The Fucking Research, because just by clicking on that post, you'd see it was after the fucking lynch. I literally snuck past the mod, after the mod had already posted the final votecount, because the mod forgot to lock the thread, so I got a chance to get in some last-minute posts.

Wisdom presented that post as an attempt to dissuade people from lynching Vedith...but Vedith was WAY beyond dead at this point and I knew it. I wanted to get in some pre-flip gloating of "told you he was town". I was wrong, yeah, but that was what motivated my posting right there.

Ergo.

Wisdom's case was absolute shit.

[mastina]

Here my objection to voting Vedith was that we wouldn't get information

And this is something that anyone who fucking knows me is something I will defend to the death.

I will keep the town from lynching scum prematurely if I know the town won't get good info from the lynch--and will only okay it when I feel either we have no choice (no more time remaining), or that there is now information to work with.

This is readily and easily verifiable as a staple of my towngame in fact. The stubborn insistence of "yes, we lynched scum, but we fucking lynched scum TOO SOON". Probably most infamously, in Biochemistry, while I thought Ginngie might be scum, I

didn't want to lynch her

, because I

wanted her to contribute more

. Because I knew that contribution would end up spewing information. Either she bussed for towncred, or gave away her scumteam; we'd come out ahead regardless. And to this very day I remain bitter about that because yes the correct fucking play was waiting for that information, then.

[mastina]

(Mind you, now that I think about it, there's a funny parallel between Biochemistry and this game. Aside from the "everyone's in a neighborhood" aspect. I'll say what it is in the neighborhood PT.)

[mastina]

lets actually remember who drixx scumread and wanted lynched, shall we?

And let's then put that into context.

I have gone on record, multiple times, and can quote from multiple sources.

Both of these things.

1: You don't kill someone when they're right about you; you kill them when they are wrong about you. At least one fucking person already argued that this is why I killed Ankamius, but you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Either I didn't nightkill Drixx because he was right about me...or I didn't kill Ankamius because she was wrong about me. I can't have done both, because they contradict each other in modus operandi. And when I make kills, I strictly adhere to the same kill pattern throughout the game.

If I killed Drixx for being right on me, then my N2 nightkill would've been someone who was right--not wrong.

If I killed Ankamius because she was wrong about me (and this is my modus operandi, mind you), then...I couldn't have killed Drixx because he was scumreading me.

2: Fuck PRs, you don't kill people because of them. You kill the players who are most threatening. You kill the players who are most likely to, across the game, cause the most damage.

And Drixx is not such a player.
Drixx, when using logic based around mechanics, is on par with Ellibereth in being convincing, sure. I'll give him that--
But only when utilizing that logic based around mechanics.
When based on logic around gameplay, Drixx has charisma arguably worse than Creature.

Drixx had no mechanical reasons to read me, but DID have mechanical reasons to scumread Almost50.
Drixx's scumread on me from play was thus worth jacksquat. It meant absolutely nothing, because Drixx scumreading someone off of play is as harmless as harmless comes. I'd kill a fucking nobody that scumreads me over Drixx scumreading me 100% of the time, because I put that little stock in his ability to get me lynched off of play.

Drixx is not a player I consider a threat early-on. Yes, his mechanical play is on par with Cerb's, which is why their hydra is devastating in the long-term. But he only gets strong when he's able to utilize those mechanics to the fullest--and with him forced to claim on D1, he neutered his usefulness. He no longer had the ability to play traps. He no longer had the ability to utilize a lack of knowledge about his role to maximum effect. He no longer had the ability to make the most of his role.

And without the ability to make the most of his role.
With his role effectively neutralized by way of him claiming it.
He was no fucking threat mechanics-wise.
The only way I'd have any way of judging his threat level beyond that was if I had a scumbuddy that had access to his neighborhood, to judge if he were able to manipulate the OTHERS' roles in there...

...Except...
...Vedith was dead by N1; even if he was a member of that 'hood (I don't remember), he couldn't feed me anything.
Robert wasn't a member of that 'hood.

And the only surviving members of that 'hood are, entirely, outside of the POE pool right now. (Joan and Pink Ball are both borderline-conftown right now.) So unless you think I'm scum with them.
Or unless you think I'm scum with Almost50-who-can-apparently-read-there (in which case, just fucking lynch Almost50).

I had no way of knowing if he was being useful in there or not.

Without me knowing if he was being useful in there or not.
I wouldn't have any way of thinking him more threatening than normal.
I'd have him as LESS than his baseline threat.
His role known, his mechanical play options limited, him being a mechanics-based player?

He was a fucking non-threat. There was no way I would have focused on him, when there were far better kills to make.

Mind you, I wouldn't nightkill someone I thought would be lynched...but I would nightkill players like Spike and Jet, who were obvtown to me at the time of N1. That's the highest-profile kill I could make (because the other high-profile kills, Near x Mello, Reasonably Psychotic, and Almost50 were mislynchable at the time, or so scumastina would believe), but I could also kill players I didn't have much influence over. Elena Fisher was a viable kill because I had her as a townread, I thought she wasn't a mislynch option at the time, and I know her to be a reasonably competent scumhunter. I may have avoided it because she was in my neighborhood, though--the same reason I wouldn't kill Dunnstral or Torque.

But you know who I could kill?

I could have killed Chito and Yuuri--a basically universal townread, who was a strong slot that was the main contributor to lynching Vedith. If Chito and Yuuri lynched one scum, what's to stop them from lynching another? That'd make them a high kill priority.

I could have killed Clemency, because I would have known that Clemency was likely gambiting, and justified it as a low-info kill on a universal townread.

I could have killed Joan of Arc--in fact, this is an incredibly likely nightkill for me. I respect Joan's scumhunting skills, and when she locks onto you, she's a royal pain to have. She was widely townread, and would be the definition of a low-info kill.

I could have strongman killed Pink Ball--in fact, knowing that Robert was likely to get lynched and that the strongman shot was not long for the world, this is the action I'd go for.

Pink Ball fucking #REKT me the last time we met, in mystery box of silver. He CRUSHED the scumteam, decisively nailing us to a T and earning a status as a "must kill" from me right then and there. Yes, Pink Ball claimed bulletproof here, but with a strongman, it'd be fucking worth it to take him out of the game, because D1 made him an impossible mislynch, the worst of the worst; unkillable conftown otherwise.

Drixx wouldn't even rate in my top five kills. Maybe he'd be like kill #6 on my list of high-priority threats. But I was absolutely not killing him N1.

[mastina]

When based on logic around gameplay, Drixx has charisma arguably worse than Creature.

And not only does he lack that charisma, but his play-based reads are also town par--they're nothing above average.

And average town is still shitty. Average town is "maybe catches one scum if they're lucky, and if they're really lucky, two", pretty much--and when using gameplay-based reasoning rather than mechanics-based reasoning, that is the level of play I ascribe to Drixx.

So I don't consider him a threat.

Him being suspicious of me from gameplay reasons was barely worth a footnote.

It certainly wasn't worth a nightkill.

Now, him being suspicious of someone from a role reason, from a mechanical viewpoint of the game...
...THAT is an entirely different thing altogether. THAT is a threat. THAT is where he specializes in fucking scum over. And he was on the right track...if you assume that Almost50 was scum.

[mastina]

(Also sorry Drixx, you're probably fuming about this description of you, but it's true; I consider you a mechanics-based threat; in that department, only Cerb rivals your skills there and you are literally one of the best players on site in that regard. But on gameplay metrics other than mechanics, you just don't register. Sorry if that offends you, but it's just...you have a specialty, mechanics, where you thrive; outside of that specialty you're just. not. notable. At least not to scumastina.)

[mastina]

Ok so anyway, let me give you more of an actual introduction....

The only player I know here is Almost50 who I played with a few months ago. Otherwise the rest of you probably don’t know me and I don’t know you. Personally I don’t view this as a problem because I give 0 shits about meta and any meta-analysis. My reads are always entirely based on the situation and the motivations behind them. In fact it always amuses me to no end when people freely hand out playbooks to the scum team when they openly discuss “behavior X is towny of him and behavior Y is scummy”. So don’t count on me participating in any meta analysis here.

I have a few gut reactions but keep in mind that I didn’t officially inherit this role until late-ish last night and have only had about 2 hours to read up on over 3000 posts. My reads will come eventually. It does also help simply to get involved so I’m hoping to poke my head in a lot during these first few real-life days to get a better sense of you all.

Finally, anime is just an excuse for adults to keep watching cartoons and I don’t know a damn thing about anime. Shoot me.

This is more or less my baseline, here.

This is SuperfluousNinja, before I entered the thread. Look at the type of posts he was making at that time.

If Mastina is the one that promoted this idea, then yes, that makes me very suspicious of Mastina.
I just think the logic clearly demonstrates that anyone who targeted him would have to be scum and that there is clearly quite a bit to learn here. I didn’t get the impression that you wanted this closer look.

Oof. Your counter-argument is that town is stupid? I just perused through Mastina’s ISO who was apparently a leading proponent of targeting him at night. Mastina is clearly not at all stupid...Mastina has been one of the biggest and most detailed contributors to this game. It cannot both be true that Mastina is stupid and that your angle here is legitimate.

Here's not only another, but it shows that he was pushing me as a mislynch candidate.

Alright as if there were really any question...

VOTE: SuperfluousNinja.
Robert was playing in a way which loosely suggested he was scum, and the flake reeked of being an apathetic scum flakeout.
ooba's utter in-and-out without so much of a word of analysis reeked of being an apathetic scum flakeout.
And this entrance is a scum entrance.

Interesting that the first vote placed by someone who claims to have no idea about the game state is on a slot that has a decent chance of being the alternative to their own wagon.

Yes indeed.

At least, not anything compelling enough that I bothered keeping it in mind.

I made a case; Dunnstral made a case; Near x Mello made a case; all of these were individual efforts approaching the slot from multiple angles.

I actually think it might be town indicative. Their drive has just enough of an "eager townie chasing his own tail" vibe to it.

It's really not.
It's a cheap, easy avenue to chase after, and one which as Near x Mello points out, is entirely more likely to be going after exclusively town names.

Scum didn't have to target Toogeloo; they'd let the town do that work for them.
So chasing after those who targeted Toogeloo is chasing after players who are town.
It's an easy push, one which requires no effort to make, and it is a push on town, one which is safe to make.

And then I entered into the day proper with this.

So, singletonking was in the channel Torque and I did; the reason he died is that he targeted Severa, and per singleton's PM, that means Severa's death killed singleton.
I among others targeted Toogeloo, explaining that death.

Sure, and in doing so, you wasted your supposed town ability, as did anyone else who followed your lead. Well played.

Am I supposed to believe that with the excessive amount of thinking and analysis you have done so far in this game, it didn’t occur to you to try and figure out why Toog revealed this about himself? Can you explain why you weren’t at all suspicious of targeting a player who you thought was scum and told you exactly how to kill him? Why wouldn’t it occur to you that this could be a trap?

His initial response is reasonable enough...

that statement by rp was awful. SN has barely been here to know which wagon is likely to go through

Scumchat's a thing.
Even if daychat isn't.
SuperfluousNinja replaced in during the night.
And has access to however much talk has happened in each and every PT they have access to.

If in scumchat.
Or, heck.
If in a neighborhood which SuperfluousNinja has access to.
It was discussed that Reasonably Psychotic is someone that people are suspicious of.

SuperfluousNinja would be well-informed of this fact.

Also, there's the chance that SuperfluousNinja simply is faking the amount of knowledge they possess, having read more than they have implied.

So yes.
SuperfluousNinja would be well aware of this fact.

SuperfluousNinja stays in the poe pool regardless; I can tell you that now. Severa's townread there was dependent on Spike and Jet being scum; they were not. Ankamius prior to sheeping Severa supported the lynch on SuperfluousNinja, as far as I can tell. Unless the neighborhood with them tells me that one/both of them townread the slot during the night, I don't have reason off of faith-trusting them not to keep pursuing this read, because the read has a SOLID basis to it.

Robert's posting indicated scum; Robert's flake indicated scum; ooba's flake indicated scum; SuperfluousNinja's posting indicates scum.

You're missing the point. The fact that they haven't been here long enough to be aware of the game state yet unerringly zeroed in on the most viable counterwagon to their own lynch is weak evidence of coaching/input from their teammates on how to save that slot for whoever the replacement was.

Pretty much, yeah.

i dont agree youre "the most viable counterwagon", thats your own manipulative words to make your point

Okay.

Who is, then?
With Toogeloo and Severa both dead at night.

Who is the most viable counterwagon to SuperfluousNinja?

Name names, here.

Because Reasonably Psychotic is a damn fucking plausible one in my eyes. Suspicion has been on the slot all game, and from notable players no less; I pushed it until midway through D2, and both Severa and Ankamius (dead town players notable for being charismatic) pushed them as possible scum as well, meaning that people performing NKA are likely to finger Reasonably Psychotic as scum.

Who would you name as a more probable counterwagon? The list of options is quite thin. Especially since counterwagons are going to, by the standard of "counterwagon to the scum wagon", being likely not to be on scum.
So if you think that, for instance, hypothetically, Elena and SuperfluousNinja would be scum together, then Elena's disqualified from being a viable counterwagon to SuperfluousNinja.

...But then I apply the pressure.

The breaking point was after this:

that statement by rp was awful. SN has barely been here to know which wagon is likely to go through

Scumchat's a thing. Even if daychat isn't. SuperfluousNinja replaced in during the night. And has access to however much talk has happened in each and every PT they have access to.

If in scumchat. Or, heck. If in a neighborhood which SuperfluousNinja has access to. It was discussed that Reasonably Psychotic is someone that people are suspicious of.
SuperfluousNinja would be well-informed of this fact.
Also, there's the chance that SuperfluousNinja simply is faking the amount of knowledge they possess, having read more than they have implied.

So yes. SuperfluousNinja would be well aware of this fact.

This is basically pure WIFOM. If you come up with actual evidence and feel like actually talking to me rather than doing a hit and run like this, do let me know. And don’t forget to answer my questions to you also.
You know another reason why people jump onto wagons is because a player is actually guilty and multiple people figure that out. See how WIFOM really doesn’t work?

Or rather, my laughing at it.

Am I supposed to believe that with the excessive amount of thinking and analysis you have done so far in this game, it didn’t occur to you to try and figure out why Toog revealed this about himself?

Nope!

Am I supposed to believe that you can't parse the fact that Toogeloo's claim was entirely not-alignment-indicative, thus, irrelevant to people?

Can you explain why you weren’t at all suspicious of targeting a player who you thought was scum and told you exactly how to kill him? Why wouldn’t it occur to you that this could be a trap?

It did.
I had countermeasures for any trap Toogeloo could've possessed.

That's why I was so adamant about targeting him. I knew that if he was, say, fakeclaiming and had a real role of pgo, it'd be nullified.

See how WIFOM really doesn’t work?

Boy oh boy you picked the wrong term to use, fella.

Wondering if I should drop the bombshell on that term right now or let it fall in suspense for a while.

Suffice to say,

I'm feeling quite smug at the moment in terms of that post.

This doesn't directly help find scum, other than showing that SuperfluousNinja's barking up the wrong tree.

Well I look forward to the post-game analysis when I can make it clear to you that this really is WIFOM. I don’t know why you’re pretending to know something that both of us know is not true.

Because I know something you do not know about WIFOM.
You think you know WIFOM well enough to argue it.
But I know something about WIFOM that you do not.

And what I know gives me a degree of smugness on the subject.

Why haven’t you answered my questions yet?

Why are you pretending that I haven't when I already did?

This was the breaking point.

I left for work at that stage.

And SuperfluousNinja flipped out.

Am I supposed to believe that with the excessive amount of thinking and analysis you have done so far in this game, it didn’t occur to you to try and figure out why Toog revealed this about himself?

Nope!
Am I supposed to believe that you can't parse the fact that Toogeloo's claim was entirely not-alignment-indicative, thus, irrelevant to people?

I never argued that the statement was alignment-indicative. Please show me where I tried to argue that it was. I’ll be waiting.

Well I look forward to the post-game analysis when I can make it clear to you that this really is WIFOM. I don’t know why you’re pretending to know something that both of us know is not true.

Because I know something you do not know about WIFOM.
You think you know WIFOM well enough to argue it.
But I know something about WIFOM that you do not.

And what I know gives me a degree of smugness on the subject.

Does this have any relevance to the game, or are you just being a smartass about terminology? It better fucking not be the latter.

You know what, go ahead and sub me out of this game.

I’ve been pissed all day because of Mastina pointlessly gloating over me apparently misusing an acronym and her taking advantage of that to feel better about herself. I don’t need this shit. This is supposed to be fun and all this game has left me with is a shit ton of stress.

You all have accepted a level of toxicity that I just do not support. I don’t intend on returning.

There was a grand total of one SuperfluousNinja post between those, and it was calling something unrelated, rude.

Like I just want to emphasize how shitty of a move that was on her part. It had nothing to do with the game AT ALL; she just wanted to gloat over something she supposedly held over me. Fuck if I’m going to stick around for that kind of shit.

Again.
The emphasis here.
He flipped out because of what I did.
I knew something about WIFOM that he did not. (Because I literally wrote the fucking book on WIFOM, which was what I was smug about--he was trying to use the term WIFOM on the person who basically redefined what WIFOM was.)
And he utterly flipped out at that level of smugness. I knew his push was a dead end, but I didn't explain to him WHY it was going to be a dead end--and he tilted as a result of this.

I very clearly did not attack her character; I attacked her actions, and deservedly so.

He saw attacks on character from me, he was seeing me as basically a bully.

And you think.
That tilt.
Was from a scumbuddy of mine?

He went from rational to outright feral--and all it took from me were a couple of posts where I was holding back some of my cards for a while.

[mastina]

(Mind you, I did fully intend to explain why using the term wifom was a mistake--after I had garnered the appropriate reactions from players. His reaction was rather unexpected, but quite telling in its own way. I was smug because I knew I wouldn't be touched by the argument of wifom, and I felt like not revealing the answer because it'd spoil the suspense.)

[mastina]

Almost50, I explained why I put him into my poe pool in the neighborhood. Basically, it's a weak meta read. He was originally cleared of the poe pool--in fact, I thought his vote on SSBF spewed him as being town. But then, today, I realized something when driving home from work: literally every single time I've thought of Almost50 in a specific way, he has actually been scum that game, and I was thinking of him in that way this game.

Almost50's play this game essentially lacks "oomph". He's posting, sure, but there isn't a real strength behind his pushes; there isn't a real fire to be seen. Every time I've seen this, I've thought, "Oh I've seen Almost50 be a little apathetic as town, he looks town for these (superficial) reasons so this must be one of those off-games of his".

And yet, every time I can think of? When I had that thought, he was actually scum. The superficial reasons were superficial, skin-deep, not actually valid, and the lack of oomph wasn't from apathy, or at least not apathy born of problems beyond the keyboard; the lack of oomph was directly correlated to his alignment. And this game, Almost50 is lacking oomph, and the only reason I can really think of for having him as a townread, I'm thinking about and thinking...isn't it kinda superficial?

Ank, I could actually get REALLY good feedback from you, here.
My references for Almost50 as scum are these three games.

His towngames look more like this, this, this, and also this, plus some of this.

You've been in at least a couple of those, so you can compare them to here.

It's not like it's a definitive difference, not a night/day lock-solid foolproof metric.
But.

There IS that trend. Where as town there's just a kind of...oomph to it--one which you can still ignore but it's difficult and annoying. One which has presence enough to demand active effort to not pay attention to it.
Whereas here, I can effortlessly ignore him--I don't need to roll my eyes at him, I can just cruise by without really trying to. Something which tends to not happen when he is actually town, if that makes sense.

Robert/ooba, it's mostly that Robert's play was underwhelming. My reference for his towngame is his play here, and what he did here was just...so, so much less than what he did there. ooba's entrance into the game also felt like it was a scum entrance--all of these are weak reasons, but they do suggest a lurking/apathetic scum that got replaced.

This was the start of the Almost50 case--keep in mind that Ankamius, in private inside her neighborhood, apparently agreed with my conclusion here.

Is the shepherding being done behind the scenes?

It takes a scum player of VERY high caliber to pull that off--who in this list can do that besides myself, maybe-Almost50, Morality/Flavor Leaf, or Reasonably Psychotic. And in the case of Reasonably Psychotic, I already laid out why I don't feel this is Cerb's scum manipulation; there isn't so much as a single trace of it as far as I can see.

Almost50 actually fits as a scum shepherd, and I am going to cite what I did in my neighborhood on the subject:
Assume the scumteam has one individual who is the primary thinker/planner.
Assume it is not Near/Mello.
Assume it is not Reasonably Psychotic.

Aside from me, who fits the description best of being a scum thinker/planner? There's a few who are definitive nos; Joan, Vedith, Pink Ball, Dunnstral. Hypothetically they could be scum and could contribute, but would not be SPEARHEADING discussion of strategy.
There's a few who are capable of it when there's literally nobody else, but are all too happy to take a back seat. Gamma and Elena are who I'd profile as such.
There's a few who I don't know well enough to make a determination one way or another, but I'd guess at not being in the role; that's Chito/Yuuri, Torque, and Robert.

But the list of people who could be scum planners 100% of the time.
Is a small one.

It's {me, Near/Mello, Reasonably Psychotic, Almost50}. (Morality and Severa both counted, but are dead, so.)

If we assume that scum have a planner, then you need to get into each one of the scum planners' mindsets.

Here is where I diverge from my original analysis, because I want to point out:

Votecount 1.16

Vedith(10)

~ Chito and Yuuri(85), mastina(78), Joan of Arc(32), Drixx(22), Gamma Emerald(82), Torque(82), Spike and Jet(127), Near x Mello(97), Almost50(58)

, Vedith(75)

-- HAMMER

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Elena Fisher(22), Pink Ball(163), Clemency(57)

Pink Ball(2)

~ Robert2424(17), Morality(29)

Joan of Arc(1)

~ Dunnstral(31)

Drixx(1)

~ singletonking(62)

mastina(1)

~ Toogeloo(29)
Not Voting (1): Reasonably Psychotic(55)

Almost50's planning strategy is similar to Morality's: screw the risk, get those counterwagons up. (And, mind you--I wrote this as a case for Morality being scum, so.)

Almost50, himself, was on the wagon, but...
Votecount 1.11

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello(73), Chito and Yuuri(70), Torque(60),

Clemency(43), Spike and Jet(115)

Pink Ball(5) ~ Gamma Emerald(66), Joan of Arc(29),

Robert2424

(15),

Almost50

(44),

Vedith

(41)
mastina(2) ~

Toogeloo

(21), Pink Ball(124)
Gamma Emerald(2) ~ Elena Fisher(20), Dunnstral(25)

singletonking(1) ~ Morality(18)

Reasonably Psychotic(1) ~ mastina(51)

Clemency(1) ~ Drixx(11)

Not Voting (2):

singletonking

(23), Reasonably Psychotic(36)

Votecount 1.15

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello(91), Chito and Yuuri(79),

Clemency

(52), mastina(73), Joan of Arc(32)
Pink Ball(3) ~

Robert2424

(17),

Gamma Emerald

(78),

Morality

(29)
mastina(3) ~

Toogeloo

(25), Almost50(53),

Spike and Jet

(124)
Gamma Emerald(2) ~ Elena Fisher(22), Pink Ball(157)

Drixx(2) ~ singletonking

(48), Torque(67)
Joan of Arc(1) ~ Dunnstral(29)

Clemency(1) ~ Drixx(19)

Not Voting (2):

Vedith

(49), Reasonably Psychotic(47)

As I originally said in my analysis--Almost50's approach as a scum spearhead is almost identical to that of Morality; fuck VCA over by having a scumbloc vote together, because the town won't be expecting it and it will throw them off.

In the former especially, there is that rather suspect pattern where Almost50 is surrounded on both sides of the wagon by scum. And that same wagon, Gamma Emerald would then later join not long after.

I'm seeing Gamma and pink ball wagons be essentially stagnant at where they are from even before vedith-slot became a decently sized wagon.

If the solve of Flavor Leaf-ooba-Toogeloo is correct, then the Pink Ball counterwagon to Vedith had

three

scum on it--not shown in any single votecount, but when you look at it, Robert was on that wagon; Morality was on that wagon; Vedith was on that wagon. The only person in the solve not on that wagon was Toogeloo.

That seems like it counts as trying-yet-failing, because failure was inevitable.

Plus what stops scum from pushing the pink ball or Gamma wagons?

What makes you think they didn't?

Both proven and suspected scum voted in those wagons.

The Vedith wagon had too much going for it to fall apart; the counterwagons were all self-evidently flawed and weak, off of superficial reasoning with the sole exception of the Pink Ball wagon--which DID rival Vedith's...until Pink Ball obvtowned himself.

Pink Ball was the closest to a viable counterwagon, which is shown to have contained scum, but he made that lynch not be viable with how he obvtowned himself. Vedith meanwhile became more and more an appealing lynch because he made misplay after misplay--none of those misplays looked intentional, so much as accidental, genuine, fuckups on his part that screwed him over.

Again, I wrote this about Morality...but it's actually more applicable for Almost50.

Almost50 was on most of the counterwagons to Vedith--Pink Ball and me most notably.

Almost50's Not Voting status I found incredibly suspect, in tandem with him having been in my POE pool.

I'm referring to Almost50's status at the end of D2. I'll be getting more into this in a bit, but keep it in mind.

Ankamius says that Almost is more likely to flip scum than not, and that his flip would be useful either way.

Ankamius has a strong track record for nailing Almost50 as scum.

I had him as a peripheral scumread; Severa had him as a scumread; Ankamius had him as a scumread; that's good enough for me.

And to give that reference--

a50 is

Town: {Ankamius, Gamma Emerald, singletonking, Chito and Yuuri, Joan of Arc, Severa, Torque, mastina}
Dunnstral
Spike and Jet
Toogeloo
Elena Fisher
Reasonably Psychotic
Almost50
ooba
Pink Ball
Near x Mello

first guess at actual scumteam is
{vedith, spike and jet, reasonably psychotic,

almost50

, toogeloo}

So reading Almost50's iso.

Hell yes he's scum, and has sketchy Gamma associatives as well. (Not going into the sketchy Robert associatives and sketchy Vedith interaction.)

A real highlight for me though is this,

@Drixx: I know why you may not think I'm playing to my town meta, but I can't explain it right now. Maybe on D3 or D4 if we're both still alive.

Given who died N1 and all.

I'll be going into these more, as well. Keep paying attention.

This post implies that certain hoods do not contain scums and certain ones do but how would you know that unless you had info on what hoods are available in the game? It’s doubtful that a Townie would be able to do anything but assume let alone speculate on an all scum hood.

What makes you think scum have info about all hoods available in the game
ie
How is bnl's thing more likely coming from scum than town?

I never said that scums had info on the hoods available in the game.

Looking back at BNL's post, it's suspicious that the post he made implies that not all hoods contain scum. It would be one thing if he brought up multiple possibilities like Drixx did when discussing possible house set-ups but he doesn't do that.

We have no idea if all the hoods in the game has a scum or not. Some of us are in one hood, some are in multiples like Morality (who elected to post in one channel and not in the other) but as far as alignments are concerned, there are no confirmations. Given this, it's a big leap to say that one or more of the hoods are all-town unless BNL had prior information knowing where the scums are, which only scum would know.

Kinda sorta feel like this from SSBF was a scumslip he tried to cover up RE: Almost50...who, as scum, has exactly that, access to every channel.

By that, I mean, he tried to project BNL/singleton's claim to an actual real scum role in the hands of another player (Almost50), essentially, and when called out on it by Near x Mello, tried to cover it up.

Take a look at him.
Take a damn good look at him.
Read my points on him.
Realize he ABSOLUTELY kills Drixx here N1; he ABSOLUTELY kills Ankamius (one of the best players in the game at reading him) N2; realize Drixx held suspicions MIRRORING YOUR OWN that Almost50's role was a scum role; realize Ankamius (again, one of the best players in the game at reading him) scumread him; realize that Severa (who, while an imperfect scumhunter, is still a

good

scumhunter) was scumreading him.

Chito: A50 did claim a post restriction and that the post restriction would not cause him to be prodded in the main thread. A post restriction does not make him town with certainty but I do believe the post restriction is likely real.

Repeat after me.

Role != alignment.

His role is real; there's never been any question to that.

The alignment's the important part; I'm pretty sure it's a scum role.

1469 is wrong in ways that are unlikely to come from scum, 73 is a level of early game solving that rarely comes from scum a50 and 1510 works against the way that a50 is more pockety as scum and less combative.

1469 is wrong in exactly the ways I've seen Almost50 be wrong as scum; 73 isn't really game solving; 1510 is responding to me literally the only way which he can; attempting to pocket me would only ensure his lynch and combating me is literally the only way he knows to fight me off.

Considering that AP is A50's "jokey" account, I would say A50's play in this game has a comparable amount of jokiness and random setup speccy stuff compared to Ballroom Blitz, which is a more recent game: viewtopic.php?t=78486&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

That's the problem.

AP

is his

joke

account.

Almost50

is his

serious

account.

The level of

jokiness

/setup spec stuff in this game is comparable to his

joke

account...
...But he is playing on his

serious

account.

You see the issue with that, yes?

Almost50 is scum on every account--by POE, by Ankamius scumreading him, by Severa scumreading him, by his interactions with flipped scum, sketchy posting throughout the game, by role speculation, and by the nightkills, among other factors.

Chito: I guess I can see where you're coming from a bit better after writing 3456, I can see how at a glance this looks a lot like scum A50. Some of the things I thought he didn't tend to do as scum he actually sometimes does, but I'm still having a hard time seeing him as scum here anyway.

Well then look at all the other factors.

There are four scum in the game--even if Gamma's one of them (which yes I agree with you I think she likely is), she has a partner; who is it?

You agree with the POE of Torque/Pink Ball/Dunnstral/Reasonably Psychotic/Joan as being town...
...Which leaves you a grand total of four names for two scum slots.
If Gamma's scum.
That's still one scum in Elena/NearxMello/Almost50.

POE is HARSH against him.

Even if you ignore the POE pool.

Drixx had setup reasons for suspecting Almost50; do you think that in a ROLE MADNESS game, Drixx was killed exclusively for counterclaiming the scum role? (When there are, in fact, multiple town players--myself included--who have a role acting as a CC to Vedith's, and there are many town roles which CC one another.) We know at this point he wasn't killed to silence his voice in his neighborhood; that theory went debunk when Severa flipped town. Drixx had his eyes on Almost50, for good reason.

Ankamius is one of the best players on mafiascum--dead serious. Well, as town, at least. She's literally one of the worst threats to go up against--while that does mean literally everyone would kill her, it also means she has reason to be respected on her reads...ESPECIALLY her Almost50 read. She is one of the best players at reading Almost50. I rate her ability to read him as better than mine, and according to Joan, she had a rather notable scumread on him.

Severa may have been wrong on Spike/Jet, but RC is also a strong town player; he has a damn good process. He had Almost50 as one of his suspects. While he was vigged, I wouldn't discount the possibility of a scum vig right now, which brings up the question of who as scum would want him dead like that; the answer is, those who were afraid he'd catch them. And Almost50 is in that pool.

There's so much for him being scum, and the most there is for him being town is "he can do this stuff as town; he doesn't have to do this stuff as scum", pretty much. He just makes the most sense as one of the remaining two.

Ank may be good but she was in the thread for like 5 days and was not privy to today's flips, including Toogeloo who might have adjusted her PoE.

Her scumread on Almost50 existed separately from her scumreads elsewhere.

Thus, the flips may have adjusted her other reads, but wouldn't have adjusted her Almost50 read.

Also, no town player is going to have perfect reads, but that doesn't mean you ignore their reads because of the ones which were wrong.

Severa also literally said he just did not read Elena, so it's not like Severa was arguing A50 was scummier than Elena (at least not in this thread, lmk if he posted some night time reads list before he died).

Him ignoring Elena doesn't mean he ignored Almost50; him ignoring Elena doesn't affect how he scumread Almost50.

How does night kill analysis point to Almost being scum in your opinion?

Because Drixx died; Ankamius died. Both had other reasons to die and Almost50 isn't going to kill someone JUST because they scumread him...but they both scumread him.

And Drixx is not such a player.
Drixx, when using logic based around mechanics, is on par with Ellibereth in being convincing--
But only when utilizing that logic based around mechanics.
When based on logic around gameplay, Drixx has charisma arguably worse than Creature.

Drixx had no mechanical reasons to read me, but DID have mechanical reasons to scumread Almost50.
Drixx's scumread on me from play was thus worth jacksquat. It meant absolutely nothing, because Drixx scumreading someone off of play is as harmless as harmless comes.

Yes, his mechanical play is on par with Cerb's, which is why their hydra is devastating in the long-term. Him being a mechanics-based player? He was a fucking non-threat.

When based on logic around gameplay, Drixx has charisma arguably worse than Creature.

And not only does he lack that charisma, but his play-based reads are also town par--they're nothing above average.

And average town is still shitty. Average town is "maybe catches one scum if they're lucky, and if they're really lucky, two", pretty much--and when using gameplay-based reasoning rather than mechanics-based reasoning, that is the level of play I ascribe to Drixx.

So I don't consider him a threat. Him being suspicious of me from gameplay reasons was barely worth a footnote. It certainly wasn't worth a nightkill.

Now, him being suspicious of someone from a role reason, from a mechanical viewpoint of the game...
...THAT is an entirely different thing altogether. THAT is a threat. THAT is where he specializes in fucking scum over. And he was on the right track...if you assume that Almost50 is scum.

Here are the points of interest regarding A50, which he wants you to forget about:

I'll bite, why am I scum A50?

I don't like your voting patterns. Let me give you an example: You think BOTH FL & ooba are scum?

I want to know why you thought I was scumreading FL

I dunno. Probably mistook a post from someone else as being made by you. I went back to ISO you and I don't see why I had that down as a remark next to your name.

I pointed out that I had mentioned something about Morality in my pt, and he ate it up. He then goes on to ask me who scum is in my hood (nonsense, the burden is on him, and the pressure should be on him)
Notably, if scum don't have daytalk then just being scum wouldn't be enough to gather this information, so that point by him is moot anyway. I theorize that he can't see into my neighborhood during the day, but may or may not be able to get info on it during the night, and if he can't then he was just making stuff up

It's time to resolve this. What information does my first post on day 3 inside my neighborhood convey?

Naw, it makes sense. Note this is WITHOUT me bothering to reread anything, or ISO A50.

The strongest argument in favor of him being town was the warning he gave everyone(to share what I was thinking there, he only does that as scum in two situations: If his teammates include Drixx, myself, Wisdom, Alisae, or mastina(just don't see that coming from anyone else in this game who's scum game I'm familiar with), or if a/his scum role includes an ability to spy on/be part of all the PT's). I found it unlikely that his team included the people I thought capable of guiding him towards taking that line, but as the game has gone on I've grown more certain that the scum team has that ability to spy on pt's, so he's really left with nothing in terms of reasons to townread him.

Honestly, pure speculation of course, but I think it's super likely that his absence from the thread right now is part of an ability that let's him look at all the other PT's during this time when he's gone from the main thread.

That's a lot of statements to make.

But let's back them up.

Looking at the players list I don't seem to recall anything Super Smash Bros. Fan or Maria have posted. Checking the activity it's no wonder as each has only posted once (and Maria even did it under an alt).

Could the two of you please step into the center of the stage and perform a first dance?

This is his first interaction with the Vedith slot.

@Gamma: How am I supposed to answer this now? You know my alts, right? Would you be kind enough to figure out the rest?

Nothing to do with alts, everything to do with you hemorrhaging scum-exclusive info previously.

I understand your paranoia, but it's overly naive of you to do so here for several reasons:
1- That was a slip about an in-game mechanic there. Here it was confusion about what game it is and who the mod is.
2- Do you really think I would be so careless as to slip AGAIN here? Like, there it was bc I was a replacement and I jumped the gun. Here I am a starter and have had plenty of time to read, reread and prepare well if I wanted to have anything "planned".
3- When that happened I tried my best to get out of the hole I had dug myself into without explaining much. Here I gave you as much info as I could. Try AP. Period.
Happy?

This is an incredibly awkward interaction with Gamma Emerald.

My inactivity in this thread until now was due to life being busy, not deliberately avoiding the thread.

(Vote: this dude)
This phrasing is most irritating to me. "my inactivity

in this thread

" hints he has been posting "elsewhere", and if that's the case then "busy life" certainly is not the reason.
Please reread his phrasing and compare it to "My inactivity

in this thread

until now" which probably wouldn't have rubbed me the wrong way.
@Super Smash: Please tell us how many posts you has on any channels you're in, and that's for starters.
Oh, and for the VC tool to recognize the vote:
VOTE: Super Smash Bros. Fan

Even for Almost50, this is an "out-there" reasoning for a vote, which reeks of being a bus vote based on TMI.

@Vedith: Why PB?

Continued awkward interactions with the Vedith slot. Up to and including:

@Vedith: Why PB?

Because I'm top voted and I got worried and panicked. You should vote with me.

I love your honesty. here's a reward:
UNVOTE:

Unvoting the slot, and not pressing elsewhere.

Almost50 drops an unvote, and critically--he avoids voting again. He doesn't latch onto something else; he just drops his push, dead, because he "liked his honesty".

I love your honesty. here's a reward:
UNVOTE:

That was a little easy. What if I was lying?

If you had said anything else I would have suspected you were lying. This is the one and only reason I thought might make sense for that vote.

The awkward interaction continues.

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello, Chito and Yuuri, Torque, Clemency, Spike and Jet, <<< all town wagon.. on a

townie

[

X

]

Almost50(1) ~

Vedith

, <<<

town

on town

[

X

]

Not Voting (3): Reasonably Psychotic, Almost50, singletonking, <<< 3 lazy townies (yes, I know I'm one of the 3)

Key notes here.

My theory is Vedith is an easy push, so scum are counting on town to do the job for them.

Hey, Wisdom.
Why the fuck did you call me out on this sort of shit, but not Almost50?

cmon, thats weak. "easy" wagons happen on scum all the time. I agree with your gamma and pink reads.

Separately, it does seem to be weak indeed. However, there are some other (even weaker) indications that -collectively- add up to a "not-so-strong yet not-too-weak" reasoning.
For example, my PoE and my SRs support that conclusion. Of course I cannot be confident without having any flips at all, but IF I am correct about X, Y & Z being the scum team then that's that.
As for Vedith himself, I don't think Scum!him (who had just voted someone and declared it was a survivalistic vote on his counter wagon), would respond to me unvoting him by FoS'ing me. (After all, he knows I'm bad.. I'm bad, he knows it.. ) and he thus was risking me not only revoting him but actually pushing him for real.

@Dunn: I'm not saying he flips red.

In fact I still lean towards a green flip.

HOWEVER, this will never go away. It's better to deal with it NOW than to let scum use it as a smoke screen to keep us chasing our tails all game.

Because Almost50 was doing the very fucking thing

you

were accusing me of doing.

Stalling the Vedith lynch.

@A50: If Vedith is a villager and is an easy push as you say, scum has all the incentive to hop on his wagon yet the wagon came to a halt
Either there is scum already voting there or Vedith is a wolf

No. If they thought town would do the job for them they would stay clear off the wagon and play for time. Maybe they thought it "could" go through without them and now are considering throwing their weight behind it towards the end of the day, but for now are hoping that the town still does the job for them.

Also let's not forget the other 2 wagons are on stronger TRs, and scum wouldn't e stupid enough to try and save one of them by pushing someone unlikely to get lynched on D1. The wagons are thus composed so that any townie looking to consolidate at crunch time would look at the 3 and think Vedith is the right way to go given there are no other options by then.

More Vedith defense.

I support Toog's notion. Let's force scum to hop on counter wagons sooner than later so it will become apparent who's aligned with whom
VOTE: mastina

I was a Vedith counterwagon.

@Drixx: I know why you may not think I'm playing to my town meta, but I can't explain it right now. Maybe on D3 or D4 if we're both still alive.

Almost50 acknowledged that Drixx posed a threat here--Drixx's point on Almost50 was this:

A50 is either having a laugh as an informed/scum role or has somehow managed to be over the top nonchalant as town since the last time I played with him as town.

And this is the crucial bit. Drixx and Cerb both saw the same thing.
Drixx.
And Cerb.
The mechanics-based players.
Both saw the same thing.
When looking at Almost50.
They saw.
A mechanical reason to scumread Almost50.

Drixx. The CO-KING OF MECHANICAL SCUMHUNTING.
AGREEING WITH CERBERUS, THE OTHER CO-KING OF MECHANICAL SCUMHUNTING.
HAD A

MECHANICAL

REASON.
To scumread Almost50.

Almost50 brushed it off.

VOTE: Vedith
All caught up. Not even sure how I feel about this, but letting him off the hook will always come back to haunt us later on regardless of his true alignment.

L-1

This is also a blatant scum bus.

I'd also like to note from D1:

This leaves me with S&J, SSB, Gamma, Joan, Toog (I suspect he may have a 1-shot global protective ability?? ), Drixx, Maria (my nemesis), mastina, Robert & NxM to sort

preliminarily

.

He sorted Spike and Jet.
He sorted Vedith.
He sorted Toogeloo.
He sorted Drixx.
He sorted me.
He sorted Near x Mello.
He sorted Toogeloo.

But Gamma/Joan/Elena/Robert have ambiguous sorts, at best. The closest to a Robert sort?

I feel

left

out.

Actually, you can't be more

right

.

That's literally the extent of his Robert interactions.

Gamma's no better in that regard.

@Gamma: So you've arguing against mastina being worthy of a sheep, and you say Joan of Arc's response isn't a town response, yet you joined the same wagon they're both pushing?? What gives?

Another awkward Gamma interaction.

@Mortality: You're clever, you're funny and -in this game- you're TOWN.

Starts with this...

@Near: Not yet. I am waiting for a few people to come say something useful today before I vote. But, it's likely that I will vote her "eventually" if that's what you're asking.

Refuses to vote...

OH! A MASTINA TRAIN! I LOVE IT!!
VOTE: mastina

...Votes me...

Near/Elena/Torque scum team

Well, I'm on Elena and I thought you were too. Let's lynch this first then we see who else. I don't think both Near & Torque bused Vedith, so I believe at least one of then is Town here.

...Is even sheeping Flavor Leaf...

No. I know his play and I kinda know when he's being manipulative-as-scum vs manipulative-as-town. FL is dropping his guard here, which is something he never does as scum. He is making himself overly vulnerable, and he

could indeed

get lynched TODAY, yet he's not backing off. It's because he

believes

he's right about you being scum (which is one major reason I'm calling his reads shit).

...And defending him...

We have no idea if all the hoods in the game has a scum or not. Some of us are in one hood, some are in multiples like Morality (who elected to post in one channel and not in the other)

This is interesting
Did Morality end up posting in any other channel?

*Sigh*
I can't argue with THAT.
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

...But when a Flavor Leaf lynch seemed viable, he jumped on, not questioning the nature of the "slip", not finding the obvious flaws in it. (Heck I scumread Flavor Leaf but I knew the slip was bs.) Flavor Leaf, the dude he was sheeping. The dude being voted by me, someone he was quite happy to lynch. He voted without hesitation, without critical thought.

UNVOTE:

He does unvote after

someone else

points this out...

...But why didn't HE, the kind of person who specializes in finding that sort of thing, notice this?

What's more.

He left himself Not Voting there--where he stayed throughout the day.
Why no vote here?
Or here?
Or here?
Here?
When Spike/Jet was being wagoned, why didn't he fight it?
Why didn't he insist that Spike/Jet was town?
Why, when on D1 to counter the Vedith wagon he voted...
...Did he not vote?

On D1, when there was a player he townread (Vedith), Almost50 tried to counterwagon them, and admitted as much.
On D2, a player he townread, Almost50...did nothing for.
The difference between the two is Vedith was scum and Spike/Jet wasn't.
He contributed nothing to the Creature discussion.
He posted, but it was just that--posts. Nothing constructive in them, one way or another. No accusations against Creature, no defense of Creature. Silence.

Then there's the scum's interactions with him.

Okay right now I'm at this.
VOTE: Almost50
Challenge me.

This is blatant scum theater--this is not a real push. This is not an attempt to generate a counterwagon. This is an attempt to make distance.

A50 is town guys.

Why?

More of the same.

The unvote was most likely a hop off the sinking ship. It's not unusual for me to be the main attraction to the death tunnel day 1, so why stay on?
The reason of me panicking, I can't see this being bought by anyone who has played with me previously, yet it was apparently a really good answer to stop voting.

Originally Almost looked to be pushing the game, and when it looks to have little to no pressure on them, it's a bunch of worthless and empty typing.
That said, the game state is in a bad shape, so it's plausible that this is void, but I'm still going with tut tut.

That's all I have as I don't want to vote Gamma yet.

Aside from this being an awkward Gamma interaction as well, this is an awkward push on Almost50.

But this is my point to the game, since I joined in (I take no blame though) majority players are doing fuck all. So the fact that Almost had better looking posts until as of recent means I shouldn't use that as a reason to thing of him as scum... However much I want to.
It's also sad that my biggest current scum read goes ahead because of an unvote on me. But that's how it is.

Here he's already giving reasons for backing out of the scumread on Almost50.

VOTE: Pink Ball

In fact, he drops it altogether.

Why didn't he keep pushing Almost50?

Idk, I havn't seen much of a change with Pink ball or Near. I'd actually put Mastina as an actual town read, she's been completely different then the game I played with her when she was scum. Maybe its so many people causing issues for me, But I have half the reads I'd like.

Vedith is odd

, but don't have strong feelings either ways. However, a flip would help with reads there...

A50 seems crazy still

. Toogeloo post seem odd to me as well.

Pay attention to these reads from Robert as well.

I can do more, but that'd go into Gamma-Almost50 when neither has flipped...yet.

[mastina]

Errr... let's try that without the broken tag?

Almost50, I explained why I put him into my poe pool in the neighborhood. Basically, it's a weak meta read. He was originally cleared of the poe pool--in fact, I thought his vote on SSBF spewed him as being town. But then, today, I realized something when driving home from work: literally every single time I've thought of Almost50 in a specific way, he has actually been scum that game, and I was thinking of him in that way this game.

Almost50's play this game essentially lacks "oomph". He's posting, sure, but there isn't a real strength behind his pushes; there isn't a real fire to be seen. Every time I've seen this, I've thought, "Oh I've seen Almost50 be a little apathetic as town, he looks town for these (superficial) reasons so this must be one of those off-games of his".

And yet, every time I can think of? When I had that thought, he was actually scum. The superficial reasons were superficial, skin-deep, not actually valid, and the lack of oomph wasn't from apathy, or at least not apathy born of problems beyond the keyboard; the lack of oomph was directly correlated to his alignment. And this game, Almost50 is lacking oomph, and the only reason I can really think of for having him as a townread, I'm thinking about and thinking...isn't it kinda superficial?

Ank, I could actually get REALLY good feedback from you, here.
My references for Almost50 as scum are these three games.

His towngames look more like this, this, this, and also this, plus some of this.

You've been in at least a couple of those, so you can compare them to here.

It's not like it's a definitive difference, not a night/day lock-solid foolproof metric.
But.

There IS that trend. Where as town there's just a kind of...oomph to it--one which you can still ignore but it's difficult and annoying. One which has presence enough to demand active effort to not pay attention to it.
Whereas here, I can effortlessly ignore him--I don't need to roll my eyes at him, I can just cruise by without really trying to. Something which tends to not happen when he is actually town, if that makes sense.

Robert/ooba, it's mostly that Robert's play was underwhelming. My reference for his towngame is his play here, and what he did here was just...so, so much less than what he did there. ooba's entrance into the game also felt like it was a scum entrance--all of these are weak reasons, but they do suggest a lurking/apathetic scum that got replaced.

This was the start of the Almost50 case--keep in mind that Ankamius, in private inside her neighborhood, apparently agreed with my conclusion here.

Is the shepherding being done behind the scenes?

It takes a scum player of VERY high caliber to pull that off--who in this list can do that besides myself, maybe-Almost50, Morality/Flavor Leaf, or Reasonably Psychotic. And in the case of Reasonably Psychotic, I already laid out why I don't feel this is Cerb's scum manipulation; there isn't so much as a single trace of it as far as I can see.

Almost50 actually fits as a scum shepherd, and I am going to cite what I did in my neighborhood on the subject:
Assume the scumteam has one individual who is the primary thinker/planner.
Assume it is not Near/Mello.
Assume it is not Reasonably Psychotic.

Aside from me, who fits the description best of being a scum thinker/planner? There's a few who are definitive nos; Joan, Vedith, Pink Ball, Dunnstral. Hypothetically they could be scum and could contribute, but would not be SPEARHEADING discussion of strategy.
There's a few who are capable of it when there's literally nobody else, but are all too happy to take a back seat. Gamma and Elena are who I'd profile as such.
There's a few who I don't know well enough to make a determination one way or another, but I'd guess at not being in the role; that's Chito/Yuuri, Torque, and Robert.

But the list of people who could be scum planners 100% of the time.
Is a small one.

It's {me, Near/Mello, Reasonably Psychotic, Almost50}. (Morality and Severa both counted, but are dead, so.)

If we assume that scum have a planner, then you need to get into each one of the scum planners' mindsets.

Here is where I diverge from my original analysis, because I want to point out:

Votecount 1.16

Vedith(10)

~ Chito and Yuuri(85), mastina(78), Joan of Arc(32), Drixx(22), Gamma Emerald(82), Torque(82), Spike and Jet(127), Near x Mello(97), Almost50(58)

, Vedith(75)

-- HAMMER

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Elena Fisher(22), Pink Ball(163), Clemency(57)

Pink Ball(2)

~ Robert2424(17), Morality(29)

Joan of Arc(1)

~ Dunnstral(31)

Drixx(1)

~ singletonking(62)

mastina(1)

~ Toogeloo(29)
Not Voting (1): Reasonably Psychotic(55)

Almost50's planning strategy is similar to Morality's: screw the risk, get those counterwagons up. (And, mind you--I wrote this as a case for Morality being scum, so.)

Almost50, himself, was on the wagon, but...
Votecount 1.11

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello(73), Chito and Yuuri(70), Torque(60),

Clemency(43), Spike and Jet(115)

Pink Ball(5) ~ Gamma Emerald(66), Joan of Arc(29),

Robert2424

(15),

Almost50

(44),

Vedith

(41)
mastina(2) ~

Toogeloo

(21), Pink Ball(124)
Gamma Emerald(2) ~ Elena Fisher(20), Dunnstral(25)

singletonking(1) ~ Morality(18)

Reasonably Psychotic(1) ~ mastina(51)

Clemency(1) ~ Drixx(11)

Not Voting (2):

singletonking

(23), Reasonably Psychotic(36)

Votecount 1.15

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello(91), Chito and Yuuri(79),

Clemency

(52), mastina(73), Joan of Arc(32)
Pink Ball(3) ~

Robert2424

(17),

Gamma Emerald

(78),

Morality

(29)
mastina(3) ~

Toogeloo

(25), Almost50(53),

Spike and Jet

(124)
Gamma Emerald(2) ~ Elena Fisher(22), Pink Ball(157)

Drixx(2) ~ singletonking

(48), Torque(67)
Joan of Arc(1) ~ Dunnstral(29)

Clemency(1) ~ Drixx(19)

Not Voting (2):

Vedith

(49), Reasonably Psychotic(47)

As I originally said in my analysis--Almost50's approach as a scum spearhead is almost identical to that of Morality; fuck VCA over by having a scumbloc vote together, because the town won't be expecting it and it will throw them off.

In the former especially, there is that rather suspect pattern where Almost50 is surrounded on both sides of the wagon by scum. And that same wagon, Gamma Emerald would then later join not long after.

I'm seeing Gamma and pink ball wagons be essentially stagnant at where they are from even before vedith-slot became a decently sized wagon.

If the solve of Flavor Leaf-ooba-Toogeloo is correct, then the Pink Ball counterwagon to Vedith had

three

scum on it--not shown in any single votecount, but when you look at it, Robert was on that wagon; Morality was on that wagon; Vedith was on that wagon. The only person in the solve not on that wagon was Toogeloo.

That seems like it counts as trying-yet-failing, because failure was inevitable.

Plus what stops scum from pushing the pink ball or Gamma wagons?

What makes you think they didn't?

Both proven and suspected scum voted in those wagons.

The Vedith wagon had too much going for it to fall apart; the counterwagons were all self-evidently flawed and weak, off of superficial reasoning with the sole exception of the Pink Ball wagon--which DID rival Vedith's...until Pink Ball obvtowned himself.

Pink Ball was the closest to a viable counterwagon, which is shown to have contained scum, but he made that lynch not be viable with how he obvtowned himself. Vedith meanwhile became more and more an appealing lynch because he made misplay after misplay--none of those misplays looked intentional, so much as accidental, genuine, fuckups on his part that screwed him over.

Again, I wrote this about Morality...but it's actually more applicable for Almost50.

Almost50 was on most of the counterwagons to Vedith--Pink Ball and me most notably.

Almost50's Not Voting status I found incredibly suspect, in tandem with him having been in my POE pool.

I'm referring to Almost50's status at the end of D2. I'll be getting more into this in a bit, but keep it in mind.

Ankamius says that Almost is more likely to flip scum than not, and that his flip would be useful either way.

Ankamius has a strong track record for nailing Almost50 as scum.

I had him as a peripheral scumread; Severa had him as a scumread; Ankamius had him as a scumread; that's good enough for me.

And to give that reference--

a50 is

Town: {Ankamius, Gamma Emerald, singletonking, Chito and Yuuri, Joan of Arc, Severa, Torque, mastina}
Dunnstral
Spike and Jet
Toogeloo
Elena Fisher
Reasonably Psychotic
Almost50
ooba
Pink Ball
Near x Mello

first guess at actual scumteam is
{vedith, spike and jet, reasonably psychotic,

almost50

, toogeloo}

So reading Almost50's iso.

Hell yes he's scum, and has sketchy Gamma associatives as well. (Not going into the sketchy Robert associatives and sketchy Vedith interaction.)

A real highlight for me though is this,

@Drixx: I know why you may not think I'm playing to my town meta, but I can't explain it right now. Maybe on D3 or D4 if we're both still alive.

Given who died N1 and all.

I'll be going into these more, as well. Keep paying attention.

This post implies that certain hoods do not contain scums and certain ones do but how would you know that unless you had info on what hoods are available in the game? It’s doubtful that a Townie would be able to do anything but assume let alone speculate on an all scum hood.

What makes you think scum have info about all hoods available in the game
ie
How is bnl's thing more likely coming from scum than town?

I never said that scums had info on the hoods available in the game.

Looking back at BNL's post, it's suspicious that the post he made implies that not all hoods contain scum. It would be one thing if he brought up multiple possibilities like Drixx did when discussing possible house set-ups but he doesn't do that.

We have no idea if all the hoods in the game has a scum or not. Some of us are in one hood, some are in multiples like Morality (who elected to post in one channel and not in the other) but as far as alignments are concerned, there are no confirmations. Given this, it's a big leap to say that one or more of the hoods are all-town unless BNL had prior information knowing where the scums are, which only scum would know.

Kinda sorta feel like this from SSBF was a scumslip he tried to cover up RE: Almost50...who, as scum, has exactly that, access to every channel.

By that, I mean, he tried to project BNL/singleton's claim to an actual real scum role in the hands of another player (Almost50), essentially, and when called out on it by Near x Mello, tried to cover it up.

Take a look at him.
Take a damn good look at him.
Read my points on him.
Realize he ABSOLUTELY kills Drixx here N1; he ABSOLUTELY kills Ankamius (one of the best players in the game at reading him) N2; realize Drixx held suspicions MIRRORING YOUR OWN that Almost50's role was a scum role; realize Ankamius (again, one of the best players in the game at reading him) scumread him; realize that Severa (who, while an imperfect scumhunter, is still a

good

scumhunter) was scumreading him.

Chito: A50 did claim a post restriction and that the post restriction would not cause him to be prodded in the main thread. A post restriction does not make him town with certainty but I do believe the post restriction is likely real.

Repeat after me.

Role != alignment.

His role is real; there's never been any question to that.

The alignment's the important part; I'm pretty sure it's a scum role.

1469 is wrong in ways that are unlikely to come from scum, 73 is a level of early game solving that rarely comes from scum a50 and 1510 works against the way that a50 is more pockety as scum and less combative.

1469 is wrong in exactly the ways I've seen Almost50 be wrong as scum; 73 isn't really game solving; 1510 is responding to me literally the only way which he can; attempting to pocket me would only ensure his lynch and combating me is literally the only way he knows to fight me off.

Considering that AP is A50's "jokey" account, I would say A50's play in this game has a comparable amount of jokiness and random setup speccy stuff compared to Ballroom Blitz, which is a more recent game: viewtopic.php?t=78486&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

That's the problem.

AP

is his

joke

account.

Almost50

is his

serious

account.

The level of

jokiness

/setup spec stuff in this game is comparable to his

joke

account...
...But he is playing on his

serious

account.

You see the issue with that, yes?

Almost50 is scum on every account--by POE, by Ankamius scumreading him, by Severa scumreading him, by his interactions with flipped scum, sketchy posting throughout the game, by role speculation, and by the nightkills, among other factors.

Chito: I guess I can see where you're coming from a bit better after writing 3456, I can see how at a glance this looks a lot like scum A50. Some of the things I thought he didn't tend to do as scum he actually sometimes does, but I'm still having a hard time seeing him as scum here anyway.

Well then look at all the other factors.

There are four scum in the game--even if Gamma's one of them (which yes I agree with you I think she likely is), she has a partner; who is it?

You agree with the POE of Torque/Pink Ball/Dunnstral/Reasonably Psychotic/Joan as being town...
...Which leaves you a grand total of four names for two scum slots.
If Gamma's scum.
That's still one scum in Elena/NearxMello/Almost50.

POE is HARSH against him.

Even if you ignore the POE pool.

Drixx had setup reasons for suspecting Almost50; do you think that in a ROLE MADNESS game, Drixx was killed exclusively for counterclaiming the scum role? (When there are, in fact, multiple town players--myself included--who have a role acting as a CC to Vedith's, and there are many town roles which CC one another.) We know at this point he wasn't killed to silence his voice in his neighborhood; that theory went debunk when Severa flipped town. Drixx had his eyes on Almost50, for good reason.

Ankamius is one of the best players on mafiascum--dead serious. Well, as town, at least. She's literally one of the worst threats to go up against--while that does mean literally everyone would kill her, it also means she has reason to be respected on her reads...ESPECIALLY her Almost50 read. She is one of the best players at reading Almost50. I rate her ability to read him as better than mine, and according to Joan, she had a rather notable scumread on him.

Severa may have been wrong on Spike/Jet, but RC is also a strong town player; he has a damn good process. He had Almost50 as one of his suspects. While he was vigged, I wouldn't discount the possibility of a scum vig right now, which brings up the question of who as scum would want him dead like that; the answer is, those who were afraid he'd catch them. And Almost50 is in that pool.

There's so much for him being scum, and the most there is for him being town is "he can do this stuff as town; he doesn't have to do this stuff as scum", pretty much. He just makes the most sense as one of the remaining two.

Ank may be good but she was in the thread for like 5 days and was not privy to today's flips, including Toogeloo who might have adjusted her PoE.

Her scumread on Almost50 existed separately from her scumreads elsewhere.

Thus, the flips may have adjusted her other reads, but wouldn't have adjusted her Almost50 read.

Also, no town player is going to have perfect reads, but that doesn't mean you ignore their reads because of the ones which were wrong.

Severa also literally said he just did not read Elena, so it's not like Severa was arguing A50 was scummier than Elena (at least not in this thread, lmk if he posted some night time reads list before he died).

Him ignoring Elena doesn't mean he ignored Almost50; him ignoring Elena doesn't affect how he scumread Almost50.

How does night kill analysis point to Almost being scum in your opinion?

Because Drixx died; Ankamius died. Both had other reasons to die and Almost50 isn't going to kill someone JUST because they scumread him...but they both scumread him.

And Drixx is not such a player.
Drixx, when using logic based around mechanics, is on par with Ellibereth in being convincing--
But only when utilizing that logic based around mechanics.
When based on logic around gameplay, Drixx has charisma arguably worse than Creature.

Drixx had no mechanical reasons to read me, but DID have mechanical reasons to scumread Almost50.
Drixx's scumread on me from play was thus worth jacksquat. It meant absolutely nothing, because Drixx scumreading someone off of play is as harmless as harmless comes.

Yes, his mechanical play is on par with Cerb's, which is why their hydra is devastating in the long-term. Him being a mechanics-based player? He was a fucking non-threat.

When based on logic around gameplay, Drixx has charisma arguably worse than Creature.

And not only does he lack that charisma, but his play-based reads are also town par--they're nothing above average.

And average town is still shitty. Average town is "maybe catches one scum if they're lucky, and if they're really lucky, two", pretty much--and when using gameplay-based reasoning rather than mechanics-based reasoning, that is the level of play I ascribe to Drixx.

So I don't consider him a threat. Him being suspicious of me from gameplay reasons was barely worth a footnote. It certainly wasn't worth a nightkill.

Now, him being suspicious of someone from a role reason, from a mechanical viewpoint of the game...
...THAT is an entirely different thing altogether. THAT is a threat. THAT is where he specializes in fucking scum over. And he was on the right track...if you assume that Almost50 is scum.

Here are the points of interest regarding A50, which he wants you to forget about:

I'll bite, why am I scum A50?

I don't like your voting patterns. Let me give you an example: You think BOTH FL & ooba are scum?

I want to know why you thought I was scumreading FL

I dunno. Probably mistook a post from someone else as being made by you. I went back to ISO you and I don't see why I had that down as a remark next to your name.

I pointed out that I had mentioned something about Morality in my pt, and he ate it up. He then goes on to ask me who scum is in my hood (nonsense, the burden is on him, and the pressure should be on him)
Notably, if scum don't have daytalk then just being scum wouldn't be enough to gather this information, so that point by him is moot anyway. I theorize that he can't see into my neighborhood during the day, but may or may not be able to get info on it during the night, and if he can't then he was just making stuff up

It's time to resolve this. What information does my first post on day 3 inside my neighborhood convey?

Naw, it makes sense. Note this is WITHOUT me bothering to reread anything, or ISO A50.

The strongest argument in favor of him being town was the warning he gave everyone(to share what I was thinking there, he only does that as scum in two situations: If his teammates include Drixx, myself, Wisdom, Alisae, or mastina(just don't see that coming from anyone else in this game who's scum game I'm familiar with), or if a/his scum role includes an ability to spy on/be part of all the PT's). I found it unlikely that his team included the people I thought capable of guiding him towards taking that line, but as the game has gone on I've grown more certain that the scum team has that ability to spy on pt's, so he's really left with nothing in terms of reasons to townread him.

Honestly, pure speculation of course, but I think it's super likely that his absence from the thread right now is part of an ability that let's him look at all the other PT's during this time when he's gone from the main thread.

That's a lot of statements to make.

But let's back them up.

Looking at the players list I don't seem to recall anything Super Smash Bros. Fan or Maria have posted. Checking the activity it's no wonder as each has only posted once (and Maria even did it under an alt).

Could the two of you please step into the center of the stage and perform a first dance?

This is his first interaction with the Vedith slot.

@Gamma: How am I supposed to answer this now? You know my alts, right? Would you be kind enough to figure out the rest?

Nothing to do with alts, everything to do with you hemorrhaging scum-exclusive info previously.

I understand your paranoia, but it's overly naive of you to do so here for several reasons:
1- That was a slip about an in-game mechanic there. Here it was confusion about what game it is and who the mod is.
2- Do you really think I would be so careless as to slip AGAIN here? Like, there it was bc I was a replacement and I jumped the gun. Here I am a starter and have had plenty of time to read, reread and prepare well if I wanted to have anything "planned".
3- When that happened I tried my best to get out of the hole I had dug myself into without explaining much. Here I gave you as much info as I could. Try AP. Period.
Happy?

This is an incredibly awkward interaction with Gamma Emerald.

My inactivity in this thread until now was due to life being busy, not deliberately avoiding the thread.

(Vote: this dude)
This phrasing is most irritating to me. "my inactivity

in this thread

" hints he has been posting "elsewhere", and if that's the case then "busy life" certainly is not the reason.
Please reread his phrasing and compare it to "My inactivity

in this thread

until now" which probably wouldn't have rubbed me the wrong way.
@Super Smash: Please tell us how many posts you has on any channels you're in, and that's for starters.
Oh, and for the VC tool to recognize the vote:
VOTE: Super Smash Bros. Fan

Even for Almost50, this is an "out-there" reasoning for a vote, which reeks of being a bus vote based on TMI.

@Vedith: Why PB?

Continued awkward interactions with the Vedith slot. Up to and including:

@Vedith: Why PB?

Because I'm top voted and I got worried and panicked. You should vote with me.

I love your honesty. here's a reward:
UNVOTE:

Unvoting the slot, and not pressing elsewhere.

Almost50 drops an unvote, and critically--he avoids voting again. He doesn't latch onto something else; he just drops his push, dead, because he "liked his honesty".

I love your honesty. here's a reward:
UNVOTE:

That was a little easy. What if I was lying?

If you had said anything else I would have suspected you were lying. This is the one and only reason I thought might make sense for that vote.

The awkward interaction continues.

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello, Chito and Yuuri, Torque, Clemency, Spike and Jet, <<< all town wagon.. on a

townie

[

X

]

Almost50(1) ~

Vedith

, <<<

town

on town

[

X

]

Not Voting (3): Reasonably Psychotic, Almost50, singletonking, <<< 3 lazy townies (yes, I know I'm one of the 3)

Key notes here.

My theory is Vedith is an easy push, so scum are counting on town to do the job for them.

Hey, Wisdom.
Why the fuck did you call me out on this sort of shit, but not Almost50?

cmon, thats weak. "easy" wagons happen on scum all the time. I agree with your gamma and pink reads.

Separately, it does seem to be weak indeed. However, there are some other (even weaker) indications that -collectively- add up to a "not-so-strong yet not-too-weak" reasoning.
For example, my PoE and my SRs support that conclusion. Of course I cannot be confident without having any flips at all, but IF I am correct about X, Y & Z being the scum team then that's that.
As for Vedith himself, I don't think Scum!him (who had just voted someone and declared it was a survivalistic vote on his counter wagon), would respond to me unvoting him by FoS'ing me. (After all, he knows I'm bad.. I'm bad, he knows it.. ) and he thus was risking me not only revoting him but actually pushing him for real.

@Dunn: I'm not saying he flips red.

In fact I still lean towards a green flip.

HOWEVER, this will never go away. It's better to deal with it NOW than to let scum use it as a smoke screen to keep us chasing our tails all game.

Because Almost50 was doing the very fucking thing

you

were accusing me of doing.

Stalling the Vedith lynch.

@A50: If Vedith is a villager and is an easy push as you say, scum has all the incentive to hop on his wagon yet the wagon came to a halt
Either there is scum already voting there or Vedith is a wolf

No. If they thought town would do the job for them they would stay clear off the wagon and play for time. Maybe they thought it "could" go through without them and now are considering throwing their weight behind it towards the end of the day, but for now are hoping that the town still does the job for them.

Also let's not forget the other 2 wagons are on stronger TRs, and scum wouldn't e stupid enough to try and save one of them by pushing someone unlikely to get lynched on D1. The wagons are thus composed so that any townie looking to consolidate at crunch time would look at the 3 and think Vedith is the right way to go given there are no other options by then.

More Vedith defense.

I support Toog's notion. Let's force scum to hop on counter wagons sooner than later so it will become apparent who's aligned with whom
VOTE: mastina

I was a Vedith counterwagon.

@Drixx: I know why you may not think I'm playing to my town meta, but I can't explain it right now. Maybe on D3 or D4 if we're both still alive.

Almost50 acknowledged that Drixx posed a threat here--Drixx's point on Almost50 was this:

A50 is either having a laugh as an informed/scum role or has somehow managed to be over the top nonchalant as town since the last time I played with him as town.

And this is the crucial bit. Drixx and Cerb both saw the same thing.
Drixx.
And Cerb.
The mechanics-based players.
Both saw the same thing.
When looking at Almost50.
They saw.
A mechanical reason to scumread Almost50.

Drixx. The CO-KING OF MECHANICAL SCUMHUNTING.
AGREEING WITH CERBERUS, THE OTHER CO-KING OF MECHANICAL SCUMHUNTING.
HAD A

MECHANICAL

REASON.
To scumread Almost50.

Almost50 brushed it off.

VOTE: Vedith
All caught up. Not even sure how I feel about this, but letting him off the hook will always come back to haunt us later on regardless of his true alignment.

L-1

This is also a blatant scum bus.

I'd also like to note from D1:

This leaves me with S&J, SSB, Gamma, Joan, Toog (I suspect he may have a 1-shot global protective ability?? ), Drixx, Maria (my nemesis), mastina, Robert & NxM to sort

preliminarily

.

He sorted Spike and Jet.
He sorted Vedith.
He sorted Toogeloo.
He sorted Drixx.
He sorted me.
He sorted Near x Mello.
He sorted Toogeloo.

But Gamma/Joan/Elena/Robert have ambiguous sorts, at best. The closest to a Robert sort?

I feel

left

out.

Actually, you can't be more

right

.

That's literally the extent of his Robert interactions.

Gamma's no better in that regard.

@Gamma: So you've arguing against mastina being worthy of a sheep, and you say Joan of Arc's response isn't a town response, yet you joined the same wagon they're both pushing?? What gives?

Another awkward Gamma interaction.

@Mortality: You're clever, you're funny and -in this game- you're TOWN.

Starts with this...

@Near: Not yet. I am waiting for a few people to come say something useful today before I vote. But, it's likely that I will vote her "eventually" if that's what you're asking.

Refuses to vote...

OH! A MASTINA TRAIN! I LOVE IT!!
VOTE: mastina

...Votes me...

Near/Elena/Torque scum team

Well, I'm on Elena and I thought you were too. Let's lynch this first then we see who else. I don't think both Near & Torque bused Vedith, so I believe at least one of then is Town here.

...Is even sheeping Flavor Leaf...

No. I know his play and I kinda know when he's being manipulative-as-scum vs manipulative-as-town. FL is dropping his guard here, which is something he never does as scum. He is making himself overly vulnerable, and he

could indeed

get lynched TODAY, yet he's not backing off. It's because he

believes

he's right about you being scum (which is one major reason I'm calling his reads shit).

...And defending him...

We have no idea if all the hoods in the game has a scum or not. Some of us are in one hood, some are in multiples like Morality (who elected to post in one channel and not in the other)

This is interesting
Did Morality end up posting in any other channel?

*Sigh*
I can't argue with THAT.
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

...But when a Flavor Leaf lynch seemed viable, he jumped on, not questioning the nature of the "slip", not finding the obvious flaws in it. (Heck I scumread Flavor Leaf but I knew the slip was bs.) Flavor Leaf, the dude he was sheeping. The dude being voted by me, someone he was quite happy to lynch. He voted without hesitation, without critical thought.

UNVOTE:

He does unvote after

someone else

points this out...

...But why didn't HE, the kind of person who specializes in finding that sort of thing, notice this?

What's more.

He left himself Not Voting there--where he stayed throughout the day.
Why no vote here?
Or here?
Or here?
Here?
When Spike/Jet was being wagoned, why didn't he fight it?
Why didn't he insist that Spike/Jet was town?
Why, when on D1 to counter the Vedith wagon he voted...
...Did he not vote?

On D1, when there was a player he townread (Vedith), Almost50 tried to counterwagon them, and admitted as much.
On D2, a player he townread, Almost50...did nothing for.
The difference between the two is Vedith was scum and Spike/Jet wasn't.
He contributed nothing to the Creature discussion.
He posted, but it was just that--posts. Nothing constructive in them, one way or another. No accusations against Creature, no defense of Creature. Silence.

Then there's the scum's interactions with him.

Okay right now I'm at this.
VOTE: Almost50
Challenge me.

This is blatant scum theater--this is not a real push. This is not an attempt to generate a counterwagon. This is an attempt to make distance.

A50 is town guys.

Why?

More of the same.

The unvote was most likely a hop off the sinking ship. It's not unusual for me to be the main attraction to the death tunnel day 1, so why stay on?
The reason of me panicking, I can't see this being bought by anyone who has played with me previously, yet it was apparently a really good answer to stop voting.

Originally Almost looked to be pushing the game, and when it looks to have little to no pressure on them, it's a bunch of worthless and empty typing.
That said, the game state is in a bad shape, so it's plausible that this is void, but I'm still going with tut tut.

That's all I have as I don't want to vote Gamma yet.

Aside from this being an awkward Gamma interaction as well, this is an awkward push on Almost50.

But this is my point to the game, since I joined in (I take no blame though) majority players are doing fuck all. So the fact that Almost had better looking posts until as of recent means I shouldn't use that as a reason to thing of him as scum... However much I want to.
It's also sad that my biggest current scum read goes ahead because of an unvote on me. But that's how it is.

Here he's already giving reasons for backing out of the scumread on Almost50.

VOTE: Pink Ball

In fact, he drops it altogether.

Why didn't he keep pushing Almost50?

Idk, I havn't seen much of a change with Pink ball or Near. I'd actually put Mastina as an actual town read, she's been completely different then the game I played with her when she was scum. Maybe its so many people causing issues for me, But I have half the reads I'd like.

Vedith is odd

, but don't have strong feelings either ways. However, a flip would help with reads there...

A50 seems crazy still

. Toogeloo post seem odd to me as well.

Pay attention to these reads from Robert as well.

I can do more, but that'd go into Gamma-Almost50 when neither has flipped...yet.

[mastina]

whoever is listening to fl here should quit mafia

^

Or maybe youd like to look at this post where mastina encourages my tunnel on FL
And maybe think to yourself, even if mastina thought FL is scum, why the hell would she encourage such a toxic comment from Wisdom? But I guess mastina only has issues with how I play when I'm scumreading her, am I right?

Pretty much, yeah.

Your point on Flavor Leaf had merit.

Your points on me do not.

this post alone is almost being obvtown
but lets assume that you guys are not familiar and think scum almost would do this for some weird reason instead of, you know, just not posting at all and spy on all the hoods.

read his exchange with dunn, where hes playing off dunn's lack of awareness that scum dont have a daykill.
read his reaction to the supposed fl scumspew by ssbf - he instantly votes fl believing it was a spew, only to then realize it wasnt.
see how he's taken his multi channel role seriously and has attempted to use them to produce things. he even thought he was forced to reveal being in a hood because he would have a prod timer today, only to figure out there's no prod for him today.
and the list goes on and on. there are tons of reasons almost is town here.

None of those things are town-indicative and some are scum-indicative.

[mastina]

Elena: I'm pretty sure either Mastina or yourself *could*be lynched today.

I am hard-vetoing the Elena lynch idea.

She doesn't get an indefinite pass but does get at least until tomorrow at the very earliest.

Mastina:you drastically overstating the influence you had on the scum wagons, and understating your efforts to stall those wagons. Unfortunately,this is something I always see you do regardless of alig ment.

I did more than fucking enough for showing the Robert slot was scum.
I didn't quote these earlier, but:

Wouldn't lynch Robert except as a last-resort, but I would because he's one of those "just...kinda......

there

" reads which usually contain

some

scum, thus willingness to do so. (So basically, not a scumread, but not untouchable, either.)

This was the first part of my Robert case.
He was just "kinda there", a zone which usually contains scum.
I knew this, and called him a probable candidate.

Robert2424
Dunnstral
Near x Mello
Toogeloo
Reasonably Psychotic

This is probably a more accurate readslist.

Note that Robert is much lower on this one--but that's more an accurate reflection of my real read there, I feel.

And expanded on that here.

Fourth tier's "this is the group of meh players--I'm not scumreading them, but these probably contain a scum (or maybe two) statistically speaking".

Robert was a fourth-tier read. A willing-to-lynch read. A compromise lynch read at the time.

Like I said, order doesn't matter that much. My order right now would probably be Reasonably Psychotic > Toogeloo >

Robert

> Morality > Near/Mello and only if that doesn't win the game > Dunnstral.

Robert was my third-strongest preference--and given Toogeloo's role, second actual preference behind the, once more, hard-if-not-impossible RP lynch.

Just like Vedith on D1.

Easy. You town, Toog town, scumteam's Morality,

Robert

, and NearxMello.

You town, Toog scum, scumteam's Morality-

Robert

with no Near/Mello.

You scum, Toog town, scumteam's probably still Morality-

Robert

.

Robert appeared in literally every single scumteam combo.

Do you have a lot of familiarity with robert? You've kinda moved him into your lower tier poe but I don't really see you talking about your scumread of him independently. Why is robert scum?

I don't have much experience with him, only a single game.

He's not really a scumread in the conventional sense; I actually already explained why he's one:
He fits in the gaps, in the zone which usually has a scum or two. Someone slipping under the radar, who doesn't attract attention. Not strongly present, scumread, or townread; just…kinda THERE.

Initially, Robert was nulltown; I loosely thought his contributions might be in line with my prior game with him. However, when you pair the above reasoning with the passage of time (he no longer looks like he's in line with said prior game; there's too little content, because he gave way more by this point), it sticks out.

He's not a major scumread, because these reasonings are both weak. Maybe not matching a single town game? Being a scumread because of being neither a scumread nor a townread? Weak reasons, even in tandem. But that's where the read is coming from.

In short, poe plus weak meta.

Here I expand on the case for why he's scum.

And I thought you didn't fully agree with my analysis

I didn't, at the time. Then the gamestate changed.

Realizing that Robert was in a more suspicious spot than I had previously assumed him to be.
A bunch of little things adding up told me that while I was in fact on the right track with my poe, I got the combo wrong when I had my three scum as Near/Mello, Reasonably Psychotic, and Toogeloo. That two of the scum were Morality and

Robert

, with the third in my original three scumreads, with the least likely as Near x Mello and most likely as Toogeloo.

And yes, I do think the solve is exactly that. Morality-Toogeloo-

Robert

.

Again. He was one of my top three. Who the three were was different, but the result was the same.
I couldn't push Toogeloo because he was set to die N2.
I could and did push Morality, but more on that below.

Robert has only some weak reasons for being scum; I feel they are right, but they're weak. I laid them out before; it's a combination of him being in the lurker zone, of him providing more content as town so weak burden-of-proficiency, of him basically being poe-scum. He is a low-profile player, and regardless of a scumflip or a townflip his flip gives us next-to-zero information to work off of. If he's scum as I suspect, it does deprive the scum of an additional member and make them slightly more desperate, but it doesn't trigger an auto-loss for them, not even if he's their strongest scum role.

There's also the fact that Robert is probably being replaced soon--him not having given much (half the reason I think he's scum) could be null due to real life stuff interfering, so my hope is that a replacement comes in and the replacement gives us a much better read on the slot. There's almost nobody who could replace in without me being fully confident I'd be able to read them and clear the slot up; give final proof that it's a scum slot, or give evidence that the read was wrong. And regardless of which, said replacement would give us more info.

So while I'm not against a Robert lynch, it's not ideal.

But my preference would be Morality >

Robert

> Toogeloo > Reasonably Psychotic > Near x Mello > Literally Any Other Player In The Game.

Doesn't get more blatant than this. I cased Robert and had him, explicitly, as my secondary lynch candidate.

You did attempt a counterwagon, to your credit--one which had, at a time, no less than three scum candidates on it. (Albeit possibly not at the same time, would need to check that to verify.)

Votecount 1.11

Vedith(5)

~ Near x Mello(73), Chito and Yuuri(70), Torque(60), Clemency(43), Spike and Jet(115)

Pink Ball(5)

~ Gamma Emerald(66), Joan of Arc(29), Robert2424(15), Almost50(44), Vedith(41)

mastina(2)

~ Toogeloo(21), Pink Ball(124)

Gamma Emerald(2)

~ Elena Fisher(20), Dunnstral(25)

Votecount 1.15

Vedith(5)

~ Near x Mello(91), Chito and Yuuri(79), Clemency(52), mastina(73), Joan of Arc(32)

Pink Ball(3)

~ Robert2424(17), Gamma Emerald(78), Morality(29)

mastina(3)

~ Toogeloo(25), Almost50(53), Spike and Jet(124)

Gamma Emerald(2)

~ Elena Fisher(22), Pink Ball(157)

Drixx(2)

~ singletonking(48), Torque(67)

Specifically, I am referring to the Pink Ball counterwagon; Robert, Vedith, and yourself all appear on it.

It just didn't go through, because it

couldn't

go through.

Here I brought up Robert's presence on the Pink Ball wagon being suspicious-as-fuck.

The gang of them have constantly said either me or Robert, and they’ve very much almost forgotten about Elena.

That would be because Elena has shown she's town and won't be lynched today; you and Robert, no such showing.

Another push on Robert.

Hello! Hello!
86 pages.. Starting the read now..

80% sure that this entrance is a hard scumclaim here.

I called this a scum entrance, which I elaborated on in my neighborhood PT; Torque can confirm this because I'm pretty sure it was him who interrogated me on this callout. Someone in my 'hood at least did; they asked me about it, and I went into the reasons for why it was a scum entrance.

Robert/ooba, it's mostly that Robert's play was underwhelming. My reference for his towngame is his play here, and what he did here was just...so, so much less than what he did there. ooba's entrance into the game also felt like it was a scum entrance--all of these are weak reasons, but they do suggest a lurking/apathetic scum that got replaced.

Another push.

Honestly at this stage I think the right play is to lynch both the Flavor Leaf and Robert/ooba slots, with Toogeloo set to die tonight, and then off of a combination of roles and flips, figure out where the poe went wrong, where the poe was imperfect, with that extra info unavailable on D2.
Or I guess get a perfect town win, if I really did nail the team, but the chances of that are, statistically speaking, so astronomically low that realistically speaking, we should prepare for the assumption that 1-2 of those three flip town.

In other words:
Work under the assumption those three are the scum, but

plan

for them not all being scum; continue working on trying to get a more perfect solve, but work under the solve we currently have until such a time as we have a better one.
The best solve I've got is ooba-Toogeloo-FLslot; I'll be working with that until I have a better one.

And another.

Ok so anyway, let me give you more of an actual introduction....

The only player I know here is Almost50 who I played with a few months ago. Otherwise the rest of you probably don’t know me and I don’t know you. Personally I don’t view this as a problem because I give 0 shits about meta and any meta-analysis. My reads are always entirely based on the situation and the motivations behind them. In fact it always amuses me to no end when people freely hand out playbooks to the scum team when they openly discuss “behavior X is towny of him and behavior Y is scummy”. So don’t count on me participating in any meta analysis here.

I have a few gut reactions but keep in mind that I didn’t officially inherit this role until late-ish last night and have only had about 2 hours to read up on over 3000 posts. My reads will come eventually. It does also help simply to get involved so I’m hoping to poke my head in a lot during these first few real-life days to get a better sense of you all.

Finally, anime is just an excuse for adults to keep watching cartoons and I don’t know a damn thing about anime. Shoot me.

Alright as if there were really any question...

VOTE: SuperfluousNinja.
Robert was playing in a way which loosely suggested he was scum, and the flake reeked of being an apathetic scum flakeout.
ooba's utter in-and-out without so much of a word of analysis reeked of being an apathetic scum flakeout.
And this entrance is a scum entrance.

And I just quoted all my fucking posts here, don't make me do it again.

I was one of the two fucking hardest pushers of SuperfluousNinja here.

I hounded him, constantly--every post on D3 was pushing him.

On D1, sure, I didn't push Robert.
But on D2 he was always a push--my neighborhood can vouch for the fact that I wanted to switch my vote to ooba, but I didn't want to fight with Severa and voting the counterwagon to Spike/Jet was something I was afraid would cause a fight there when I knew I needed to pick and choose my battles.

Heck I already said this before.

On D2.
My three pushes were on Flavor Leaf, Toogeloo, and ooba.
I dropped my Flavor Leaf push altogether when Severa replaced in; I stopped pushing him as scum altogether.
I had a plan for dealing with Toogeloo.
The conclusion from that is obvious.

If I wasn't going to push Severa--which there's strong evidence I wasn't going to--and I wasn't going to push Toogeloo.

Who the fuck was I going to push?

Exactly. ooba.

I've pushed Robert's slot for the vast majority of the game.

And while I didn't

push

Vedith, I

contributed

there; I just fucking wrote a lengthy post about THAT, too.

I can certainly see the kills performed this game, and the sacrifice of two dead weight slots as within her range(your anti-bussing tendencies are irrelevant here, mastina, for reasons you outlined yourself: attempts were made to save Vedith

Attempts were NOT fucking made to save Vedith, and YOU ARE THE PLAYER WHO FUCKING SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

Above all others.

YOU fucking know.

My language.

My choice of words.

Better than any other player here.

And you fucking know my philosophies, too.
You've seen me play enough that you know how I operate as town.
I fucking compromise.
Vedith was a compromise.

I didn't fucking FIGHT the Vedith lynch.

I fucking ACCEPTED A COMPROMISE on the Vedith lynch.

And you, having read my fucking posts.

Should fucking KNOW I fucking compromise on lynches.
In the fucking way.
I compromised on Vedith.

It is my own fucking way of contributing.

Because I know being too bullheaded past a certain point is counterproductive.
I know when I am fighting a losing battle.
I know when to pick and choose my fights as town.
I could never get you, my preferred lynch back then, lynched on D1.
So if I couldn't get my preferred lynch on D1.
I needed to fucking compromise.

If I needed to fucking compromise.

I needed to compromise in a way which was productive.

And contributing to the Vedith lynch.

Was my compromise, was me being productive.

You fucking KNOW.

That as scum.

I easily.

EASILY.

Could have kept pushing anyone else.

You fucking KNOW.

That as scum.

I easily.

EASILY.

Could have hard-bussed Vedith.

But no.

I didn't hard-bus Vedith and I didn't hard-defend Vedith and I didn't hard-push someone else futilely; I. fucking. compromised. On Vedith.

Literally everything I do CAN be done as scumastina.
ANYTHING I do can be scumastina.
Because scumastina is one of the best scum players on site.
Flexible, adaptable, always changing things up, always catching people off-guard by shifting her play, molding it to specific players.
I can do anything as scum.

Yet I have a fucking track record you know all too well.

Of NOT doing things this way.

Because I don't fucking throw scumbuddies away as a fucking compromise lynch.
I could.
But I

don't

.

And you fucking know better than to think I do.

[mastina]

Also, I'd sort of like a mass flavor claim today. People can change their rolea tonight, so minimal scum knowledge gained, and having these claims on the record will be useful in determining the likely truth behind action claims for the last two nights.

Thoughts? Objections?

I have a better idea.

Tomorrow, D4.

Everyone massclaims--their full original role, AND, their full current role.

Today we do nothing.

D4 is plenty of time for everyone to have gotten used to their abilities, both old and new, and gotten some use, some mileage, out of them. We will also be in the perfect spot information-wise. Also, there's less people alive than we would think for D3; lylo/mylo is dangerously close, and it will come to us faster than we anticipate. We're at just the level ahead as we should be for one, too; scum only have two roles left, giving them a grand total of three ways to interfere with town (two actions plus the nightkill). They can't use more than one action (aside from the kill), just like the town can't, so they can't stop everyone.

(Plus I have a selfish reason to not want to flavor claim today, but by tomorrow post-switch said reason won't exist; I kinda want to spend time roleplaying as my character if as I suspect, someone's alt-role has an interaction with my role. I think my status as Informed is tied to a specific alt-role; the information tells me that they aren't in the game

now

, but I suspect that the info is there to prepare for them appearing. It could be lovers, could be masons, or disappointingly, just neighbors, but I think there's an alt-role that is tied to my current role and if I'm right I want to spend the night roleplaying with them about it, which isn't as fun if my flavor's public, so.)

[mastina]

no whats absolute shit is you trying to blah blah your way out of obvscum country

I was never obvscum.

Your case was shit and I showed why.

okay, its after the vedith lynch so its not part of his stalling posts
but the overall point remains

I proved I wasn't stalling.

Interested now?

[mastina]

@Mastina: go reread SNs flip, please and thank you.

Well if you mean this:

With this honed skill, any nightkills made by you will become critical and cannot be saved by any healing roles. (I'm speaking about roles like Doctor)}.

If Pink Ball's bulletproof is classified as a healing role, it'd puncture through that, but since that was an N3 unlock, point taken.

I'd like to be rated in all metrics as town! Please put that as a priority on par with explaining why you wouldnt nk drixx.

You're Drixx, but with higher accuracy and slightly higher charisma.

Co-king of mechanics.
Not very convincing.
But reads as slightly better than random--not significantly higher, but higher all the same.

The main danger is that you and I have played more than Drixx and I have together; it's about a 1.5 - 1.75x difference, not huge, but significant enough to be noteworthy. If I wasn't pushing you as a lynch on D1 and D2 (I cased you pretty hard overnight in the neighborhood), I would in fact kill you N1.

However, because I never kill players who I am pushing as scum, when I'm scum...and I was pushing you as scum...that means that scumastina gives you immortality. (Granted, there is the question of whether scumastina would even push you in the first place--or rather. scumastina would push you, but would she keep doing so all day? She loves to tunnel on big-name players, but she also runs the risk of drawing too much attention to herself, and can get more mileage from you by working with you and manipulating you than by pushing you as scum. So, 50/50 there.)

wow you won't even consider me to nk just b.c. neighbourhood, thats depressing

Of course not.

A neighborhood caused a person, when my slot was

literally confirmed scum

, to STILL not want to lynch me. It had to be explained to them multiple times that, yes. We were in fact, 100%, absolutely, beyond all shadow of a doubt, confscum for him to lynch us. Because my neighborhood manipulation was

just. that. damn. good.

And you may note that everyone in our neighborhood (to my knowledge) is townreading me pretty much, yeah?

Not an asset I throw away as scum; I exploit it to the maximum.

Not a slip. Multiple scum strongmen are extremely improbable, so it's just her screwing up the role.

Hey Cerb.

Legit question.

If you think multiple scum strongmen are extremely improbable...

...What are your thoughts on multiple scum roleblockers-exclusively-for-females?

Because my N2 unlock was precisely that, which is the reason why I wasn't afraid of Toogeloo being a pgo. A female-exclusive roleblock, based around groping my target. (Like I said, my character is as gay as gay can gets. <3)

[mastina]

You know what, go ahead and sub me out of this game.

I’ve been pissed all day because of Mastina pointlessly gloating over me apparently misusing an acronym and her taking advantage of that to feel better about herself. I don’t need this shit. This is supposed to be fun and all this game has left me with is a shit ton of stress.

You all have accepted a level of toxicity that I just do not support. I don’t intend on returning.

btw this post comes as a response to dunn's push.

Oh, did it now?

Let's see...did SuperfluousNinja say "I've been pissed all day because of Dunnstral pointlessly gloating"?

Funny.

It seems that he had a very weird spelling of Dunnstral, given it says 'M a s t i n a'.

Yeah fuck that shit.

You're fucking denying it.
He literally fucking said it was because of me.
It's literally right fucking there in his post.
He namecalled ME.

He was ticked at ME.
He was pissed off at ME, tilted because of what *I* did.

If he were mad at Dunnstral, if it were Dunnstral that caused that, he would've named Dunnstral.

He didn't.

[mastina]

Mastina, js
At least that last part, Wisdom's totally right. Even before you jumped in with links that say Clannad was a 2007 show, singleton already pointed that out. You don't really get to say you contributed to major points of Vedith's lynch or whatever. I thought about the same thing when you said it in the channel but didn't want to tell you.

Torque you fucking have access to my neighborhood and know I argued with you about Vedith's fucking stances on Pink Ball vs. mastina being sketchy.

You fucking saw my process in explaining exactly why my read on Pink Ball shifted.

You fucking saw how I explained in METICULOUS detail my end-of-day stance:
How, while I didn't think Vedith was scum, that I did think he was the lynch candidate with the highest chance of flipping scum.
You fucking saw me explain the difference between the two--where I was willing to contribute to lynching Vedith because he had the highest chance of all candidates of flipping scum, in spite of not pushing him because I didn't think he was scum.

You have access to my fucking wall on the subject. I literally just made a wall countering Wisdom there. Where I show, where I describe.
What compromising entails.

Where I lay out my process and why I was willing to compromise on Vedith.

You might not have the experience with me that Cerb does, but you DO have access to that information Cerb doesn't.

So both in your own fucking ways you should be able to tell this much.

I never pushed Vedith, nor did I ever claim I did.
I did contribute to the Vedith lynch, by my actions. By having him in the peripheral at all times, promising I'd vote there, laying out why I would vote there, showing willingness to vote there, explaining why Vedith wasn't a townread of mine, explaining why his actions could come from scum.

I did all of those fucking things and they are right fucking there for you to see them.

[mastina]

He said this:
Pink Ball(5) ~ Gamma Emerald(66), Joan of Arc(29), Robert2424(15), Almost50(44), Vedith(41)
Yes, because I'd definitely be voting with my whole scum team (mastina assumes it's me and Gamma, right?). That's GOOD scum play. Got it.

It IS tho.

In Almost50's scumplay book, it is a valid strategy--and one he'd be likely to employ.

[mastina]

I read all what mastina said and I feel like she's projecting her own scummyness on a player that she thinks that plays like her. Like, saying that A50 could do that voting thing with his teammates because no one would suspect they're voting together

Except I also explained my style in that very same spot--and demonstrated why MY style is fundamentally different, showing what it is and why it wasn't there.
I explained why it didn't fit Reasonably Psychotic and why it didn't fit me and why it DID fit Almost50.

It's not me putting things I do onto him.

It's me putting things HE does on him.

Because I have the fucking experience to know he does those things.

[mastina]

That strategy was

invented

by mastina and she let her team use it in the 2018 TM competition

Was not and did not.

I never coordinated votes with my scumteam. GuiltyLion and RC voted together; RC and I briefly, BRIEFLY had votes together, I VERY BRIEFLY was on the same wagon as GuiltyLion, but I was constantly. Consistently. NEVERENDINGLY. Behind that game. I could never fucking coordinate a vote together even if I had the thought to do so, which I wouldn't, because that's not a thought that fucking comes to me. It's a foreign one, one which is not something I would naturally think of at all.

I fucking got lynched because I was behind and couldn't catch up.

That's literally the reason I died.

I couldn't keep up.

So I certainly couldn't coordinate votes; my votes were broken and disjointed from the team that game.

[mastina]

Its the combination of her trying to get credit for it and claim she cant be scum because she supposedly bussed vedith with that

I want credit for the Vedith lynch because I fucking deserve credit for the Vedith lynch.

If I hadn't helped, if I hadn't contributed what I had. Then Vedith might not have gotten lynched.

[mastina]

objectively untrue. As ive already said, vedith was doomed the moment he fakeclaimed because the mod would just confirm he cant have that favor. You did nothing.

That would be a valid argument if my contributions came from after he fakeclaimed.

The majority came before.

Which I fucking showed in that wall you refuse to read.

[mastina]

This song came on my playlist and seemed appropriate:

Taking a break from the thread right now.

[mastina]

having him in a poe and pushing others instead is not contributing

I did more than that.

[mastina]

objectively untrue.

Oh I objectively showed it to be true.

Your fault for not reading where I did, but hey, your choice I guess.

[mastina]

what could she do? deadline was there and she had already said she will vote him if deadline came

I could...

...Y'know...

...Not have made that promise in the first fucking place?

I never make promises I don't intend to follow through on.

So from the moment I said I would vote Vedith.

That fucking meant.

I was going to vote Vedith.

[mastina]

if I were the D1 lynch, you could talk about contribution, since you were hard pushing me, and I was Vedith's counterwagon. Even if you realized I'm town and you said you were trying to "get reactions" from me, you would've been the n°1 reason Vedith gets saved by letting me get lynched instead.

It wasn't get reactions from YOU.
It was reactions from OTHERS. (Well, yes, you, but MOSTLY from others.)
Specifically, the useful reaction was Vedith's.

I never voted you, did I?

Precisely.

Because I never intended to lynch you.

You were at equal votes to Vedith.

Me voting you would've tipped the scales in favor of your lynch over his.

That I didn't do that.

Is itself.

Contribution to the Vedith lynch.

NOT helping your wagon.
Pushing you but NOT contributing to your lynch.
Contributed to the Vedith lynch.

You'd have a point if I voted you.

But I fucking didn't.

[mastina]

I never make promises I don't intend to follow through on.

Site search tends to suck for specific words, but if you get lucky.
You might be able to get a lot of hits for "as promised".
By searching my name in mafia games. mastin*, as to catch all accounts.

Worth a try.

I fucking follow through when I promise something.

So from the moment I fucking promised to vote Vedith.

I was going to fucking vote Vedith.

Because I fucking keep my word, regardless of alignment. Heck, scumastina's even more big on keeping her word; for her, the truth is her largest weapon so she makes the most possible use of it. She gives no possible excuse that can be construed as having broken her word, because she knows that people will call her a liar and lynch her if she doesn't do exactly what she says she will.

I couldn't do anything but vote Vedith, once I said I was going to vote Vedith.

But you can't fucking ignore.
How if I were scum.
I could have simply.
Just not promised to vote Vedith.
Said, "I might vote him".
Said, "if forced to, I could vote him".
Hedged it.
Been wishy-washy about it.

But no.

I committed.
I fucking promised.
And did exactly what I said I would.

[mastina]

Because you were commited to your tunnel(s) and didnt want to stray

Explicitly so, yes.
Never said otherwise, did I?

[mastina]

Your intentions are not defined by how things went, but how things could've gone. And it's pretty clear that even if you didn't vote me, your push was the biggest reasons I would've been the D1 lynch. And that would've saved Vedith. Game set and match.

That's like saying gambits are defined by what could have gone wrong with them, not by what actually happened with them. The logic you're using is the same; intentions are identical.

Suffice to say I disagree with that and have been a strong proponent of that.

What could happen means fuckall of nothing.
What did happen means everything.

Anyway, I think mastina knows EXACTLY why I'm scumreading her, but she won't talk about that

Hard to talk about something you don't actually know. Maybe if I were scum I would know, but because I am not, nope, not a clue.

1. Torque isn't dead because he's pocketed by mastina. Torque's reads have been pretty solid all the game if you reread his ISO.

Torque isn't dead because Torque is not a high-profile kill for anyone this game, to my knowledge.

Heck, Torque was a total unknown to me before this game; how many people actually know of Torque in this game?

I sure didn't, and if I didn't when I know almost everyone.
That means most people wouldn't.

2. mastina's vote on Vedith was before Vedith's claim.

Are you trying to prove I'm town?

Because it's working if that's your point; voting before Vedith's claim is fucking proof of what I was saying; I didn't contribute to a doomed slot; I was contributing well fucking before the slot was doomed.

After Vedith admitting he lied, mastina said that none of the wagons that have been on scum. Brainfart, from scum.

I don't brainfart as scum.

Like I said.

You trying to prove I'm town?

It's working.

I'll post my actual case on her, something she will try to deny with verbiage, but with no real reasoning behind other than "your case is reachy"

Considering the amount of time/effort I spent shutting Wisdom down, you really think that?



Bring it on.

I've spent over seven fucking hours today on this game.

What's three, four, more?

[mastina]

I sure didn't, and if I didn't when I know almost everyone.

To put that in perspective.
The only players this game I don't have intimate experience with.
Are Chito/Yuuri (both heads), Torque, and SuperfluousNinja (a replacement).

Literally everyone else I know.

I may not have omniscience enough as to be aware of all the happenings in every game, but I have almost omnipresence enough where I am aware of almost all players in spite of not knowing the details of the games. I've seen everyone on at least one occasion if not more. But not them.

That means I wouldn't go out of my way to pocket them--they're people I don't know, so why would I be targeting them for a pocket? I aim my pockets at known, controllable variables. People who I am confident I can manipulate; unknowns are people who I have zero knowledge on how I can handle them.

[mastina]

Bring it on. I've spent over seven fucking hours today on this game. What's three, four, more?

(Offer not valid past 1:30 am. I can stay up late tonight--I can't pull an all-nighter tonight. Offer also not valid on Monday, and probably not Tuesday, and I'll need to check my work schedule to see for Wednesday. I can only put the time in when I actually have the time to spare. I had it today, have it now, but if you post it while I'm working all day, well then. Can't exactly do anything about it.)

[mastina]

Yep, checking my schedule, confirmed. Offer not valid Monday - Thursday. Quite valid on Friday tho; bring it on and I will answer it in full.

[mastina]

(Offer also not valid Saturday because I've got a staff meeting, but offer still quite valid next Sunday, although that does admittedly bring us close to deadline. STILL. There you have it. Offer stands on Fridays and Sundays. Case me, bring it on in full, I respond in full.)

[mastina]

Lol go to sleep mastina.

Can't for another hour minimum. Physically can't go to bed before midnight.

Also may get girlfriend time (not looking likely, but it's POSSIBLE), so that's worth staying up.

I'd be doing something more in here right now with that time if I hadn't done everything I could do.

I could reformat the Almost50 case to be more readable, but that's about it; I guess I could case Gamma Emerald, but that's more of Chito/Yuuri's endeavor rather than mine.

I accomplished literally everything I set out to do today, and in half the time I was expecting.

[mastina]

(Also, there's something to be said for quality drop in being proactive.
When I am reactive, I can stay up much later; in reactive posting, I am just as effective at 3 am as I am at 6 pm.

But proactive posting, well, even by the time of the Almost50 case I was starting to be a little fatigued. I had the idea for the case but I couldn't structure it properly; it's sloppy as a result. By that, I mean. I can respond to anything posted right now--and to that posts, I will form a coherent response that is 100% effective. But left to my own devices, with no posts to respond to, with me making content on my own without prompting, that content's not coherent and is only like...50% effective.

Being proactive takes brain power; being reactive is more instinctual and takes far less. It's honestly why I am usually a reactive player rather than a proactive player just as a general trend. In my old age, I've come to prefer being lazy and in my old age, I've come to find conserving as much strength as is possible allows me to function in the game of mafia and not suffer from burnout nearly as easily. This game's an abnormality in how proactive I've been. Heck, I'm the second-highest post count, a stage I almost never ever ever reach; I've got a two-page iso that's well on its way to the mythical 3 which I've only broken in less than a handful of times.)

[mastina]

Actually, I guess that counts as a productive point to raise.

Spoiler: Extensive list of scumgames last five years

mystery box of silver
more songs
A Story Revisited
Minuet's Trio
Turn of Camn
XP Mafia
Organization XIII
Inventions Mafia
Newbie 1814
WWF Mafia
The Mystery At King's Landing
Civilization Mafia
Green Day UPick
Star Wars Rogue One
UNI MUM
Disney Villain
Inorganic Chemistry
molliegeddon
World of Mafiacraft
Newbie 1465
NY 172
Paranoia
Book of Shadows
Attack on Titan
Left 4 Dead
Micro 264
Micro 242
Micro 241
Micro 226
Mini 1530
Theater Season Mafia
Micro 195
Newbie 1378
Anything Goes
Shadows and Lights
The Walking Dead
Void Mountain Nightless
Buzzword Bingo
Micro 116
The Mind Reader
Playing With Fire
/in-vitational 15
Politics Mafia
Discworld Mafia

There maaaaaay be a mini normal or two not included, all alts are excluded, any hydra I didn't post on my main is excluded, but this is a pretty extensive list of my scumgames.

I think I also forgot to include Encore Mafia, which was a recentish but important scumgame.

My point is to check those games and see which ones I was proactive in and which ones I was reactive in.

Mystery box was reactive; I never took initiative and everything I did was in response to something else.
more songs was mostly reactive; I did take initiative

briefly

to mislynch Robert, but even there I wasn't the only drive; all I did was push the town in the right direction and sit back and watch the fireworks unfold.
A Story Revisited was entirely reactive; my whole scum plan that game REVOLVED around my reactivity and basically improvising on the fly.
Minuet's Trio, I didn't contribute enough to really tell but I'd say more reactive than proactive; the closest I came to proactivity was pushing the other N3 vig as scum and even that was a weak push.

Turn of Camn might be proactive. Hard to say for sure, but hey. Let's give benefit of the doubt and count it as a proactive scumgame.

XP Mafia, reactive; I was flying by the seat of my pants near the end. The closest I came to being proactive? Proactively bussing my scumbuddy, because I knew Kokichi was competent enough to not get lynched.
Organization XIII, reactive to the extreme; it was kinda my thing.
Inventions Mafia, reactive by necessity; being constantly, consistently, neverendingly behind and struggling to stay afloat tends to do that to you.

I'm not sure if I succeeded in it, but in newbies as an IC I always try to set the best example and I consider being proactive a better example than being reactive so regardless of whether it shows or not I am counting Newbie 1814 as a second proactive scumgame.

WWF was multiball where literally everyone was scum; I was proactive there but multiball means it's a bit invalid because scum have incentive to scumhunt proactively--and I had a nightkill-immune role, so I knew I could get away with it. Let's call it .5 of proactive.

Mystery at King's Landing, I have never managed to recreate my success here in spite of efforts to try. I'm not sure if it counts as proactive from an objective standpoint but from my subjective standpoint hell yes. So that means count's at 3.5.

Civilization Mafia I made a grand total of two posts in the game thread, and worked entirely behind the scenes otherwise; reactive.

Green Day UPick, by the looks of it, I'd call that proactive? I remember the behind-the-scenes work more than I do the actual in-thread work. I thought it was reactive but the in-thread posting suggests proactivity. I guess it's 4.5 then.

Star Wars Rogue One was reactive as hell.
UNI MUM, pretty sure that was reactive.
Disney Villain I was fighting a siteflake; that automatically puts this in reactive territory.

Inorganic Chemistry, pretty sure that was equal parts both but has enough proactive to count as 5.5.

molliegeddon, I was emotionally compromised; reactive.
World of Mafiacraft, lategame replacement cruising to easywin; reactive.

Newbie 1465, same as 1814, automatically 6.5.

NY 172, I was busy fighting tooth and nail to the brim in Tales of You. I literally was sacrificing EVERYTHING for Tales of You, school included and mafia games included. As a result, this one was de facto reactive; I simply didn't have time for anything else.
Paranoia, by necessity, was reactive.
Book of Shadows, by virtue of following Titus's plan, was reactive.
Attack on Titan was reactive.
Left 4 Dead was infamously reactive; I bussed my scumbuddies and asked them to bus me, barely survived D1, and got cop guiltied but discredited the cop with my antics.
264 was, by game mechanics, necessarily reactive.
Kinda hard to tell for 242; vaguely I recall being reactive there since I know I was disadvantaged the entire game and lost it fairly early.
241 was reactive.
226 I seem to recall being known-to-scum, unknown-to-town multiball; in spite of that, I think this was a reactive game.
1530 I flaked from; reactive.
Theater Season, I flaked from; reactive.

195, I think might be proactive? So that'd be 7.5.
1378, newbie, auto-proactive; 8.5.
Anything Goes, also proactive although with Katsuki and with a "fuck the mod this is fucking bullshit" mindset, was hard not to be. Still, 9.5 regardless.

Shadows and Light was multiball, but was also reactive.
The Walking Dead, reactive.
Void Mountain Nightless, reactive.
Buzzword Bingo, reactive.

116 looks proactive, so, 10.5.
Pretty sure Mind Reader was proactive, so, 11.5.

Playing With Fire, reactive.
/in-vitational, reactive.
Politics Mafia's null-and-void as I died immediately.
Discworld Mafia was reactive.
And Encore Mafia was also reactive.

Of my known scumgames in the last five years, that's more than I thought; 11.5 / 45. About 25% of my scumgames have me proactive then.

It would take me a significantly longer amount of time to separate out and compile all the towngames from here.

There is almost (not quite) 200 results to search. Many are as a reviewer; some are as a moderator; some are games I didn't play in; there's at least one third party game in there, maybe two. And there's the scumgames too. But with 45/200 scumgames, and probably about that same number when you combine reviewers/moderators, that's probably ~100-110 towngames to try and search for whether I was proactive or reactive.

May or may not keep that up since we're approaching midnight.

[mastina]

A kill on Drixx is not, for scum!mastina, a kill on Drixx - it's the removal of the potential for Drixx and I to work together(in a game with hoods, where we could theoretically ALREADY be working together unbeknownst to scum!mastina).

I think the very fact that I didn't so much as bring this possibility up is sufficient proof that the thought never crossed my mind.

So regardless of whether I am town or scum.

I can tell you Drixx wasn't killed because

I

thought to remove the you-Drixx synergy.

Again shown because if I had so much as thought of this at all I'd have brought it up; I didn't because I legit never thought of that.

I see the A50 situation, I really do. If I'm wrong about the mechanical likelihood of all knowing scum, then we're *still* looking for a schemer in this game, as I still don't see A50's early play as coming FROM THEM. Am I just completely off base in that regard in your opinion?

Maybe I was wrong about my reactive self being able to work at 100% when this tired because I can't parse this in a coherent fashion; I don't understand what you're saying here.

[mastina]

3619: This post is actually kinda gross because you have edited 651 to make it seem like you were putting a lot of emphasis on Vedith when you also commented on pink ball and cerb.

I always highlight the relevant parts--yes, there are other parts that I cut out and yes there are other parts that I don't emphasize, but that's because I highlight the areas that are actually pertinent to my point. If I make a wallpost containing reads on every player, do you expect me when coming back to reference it to quote the entire thing, or just the part of it that I need?

...Precisely the same principle here.

I also don't get why you would PM the mod that you're second guessing a read? That's just weird

Multiple reasons.
1: at the time I wasn't sure I could trust my neighborhood with my thought processes. I certainly couldn't trust the main thread.
2: I felt like a dick pushing Pink Ball that way, and I wanted to record

why

I was pushing him that way--I wanted to have a record of, "this is why I am doing that; it serves a good purpose".
3: I am egotistical and like to record my thoughts.

I have an established track record of doing it in prior games as both alignments mind you. (Well, kinda sorta as scum. Not quite the same, but close enough.)

3630: 1 is wifomy bs, 2 is wifomy bs

Hey remember when I laughed at SuperfluousNinja for using that term and held a level of smugness for it?

There's damn good reason for it.

Because when I say I literally wrote the fucking book on WIFOM.

It's not Hyperbole.

Go read that and see if you can guess what I think of discrediting attempts because of "that's wifom".

Considering how Joan/Mastina played Story Revisited, overblown scum theater is like mastina scum 101.

It isn't.
That was specific coaching advice to Joan--I was trying to make her do in

that

game what she's done in

this

game.
Read Joan's posts in this game.

And that is what I was

trying

to make her due in that game.

It was something specific to her.
It was me specifically trying to manipulate

her

meta, her posting, so that she was in tune with her towngame.

I have no such experience with SuperfluousNinja.

So no.

Don't go calling overblown scum theater as scumastina 101 from one fucking example you don't fucking know the context of.

First of all, why the fuck does everyone assume there IS a scum mastermind?

Multiple reasons.
1: experience. There is almost always a scum mastermind.
2: Gut feeling. The signs of a scum mastermind feel like they are present.
3: The nightkills. The nightkills point towards a more conniving scum player.

Mastina, if you write a fucking post like 3654 again

I won't, because that was a result of broken code.
Read 3655 instead, where the tag was fixed.

Also, stop saying that Drixx and Cerb scumread A50 for "mechanical" reasons when there isn't an iota of fucking mechanics there

What's not mechanical about saying "Almost50 has a scum role cackling like a maniac" (more or less)?
That seems pretty blatant to me.

You're townreading Elena because she made you loved

Nope!

So giving Elena a "1 day pass" because she made you loved, which apparently is a big part of your argument, flies in the face of most of your own arguments.

It would if that were the actual reason; it is not.

In regard to your best points about A50, simply put, you yourself just modded Ballroom Blitz, where AP made passive unvote posts like: viewtopic.php?p=10700080#p10700080
But you are right that he does tend to *revote faster* even in Ballroom Blitz, and that he has been unusually passive this game.

Yes, that was my point.
Almost50 doesn't need to unvote and then immediately vote someone else.
But he does when unvoting need to not just

do nothing

with it.
And for that matter when voting to not just

do nothing

with it.

Yet here he is.

and never, ever use the "large" font size again please.

Maybe never judge a post that was broken into the large font only because of a fucking typo; the post is quite normal with that font error removed.

[mastina]

If I make a wallpost containing reads on every player, do you expect me when coming back to reference it to quote the entire thing, or just the part of it that I need?

For that matter.

If I make a post on a player who is already flipped, do you expect me to leave the bits in about that already flipped player when they are just fluff?
They get in the way of the point; I cut them out.

If I make a post on a player who my read has had a total reversal on, do you expect me to leave the bits about the obsolete read in there when bringing them up might give players the impression I still hold that read?

No, I cut it out because I want to emphasize points that are

relevant to now

, and points that are relevant to now are points that contain information that is valid about a player now--points that continue to remain valid even when other points are rendered obsolete.

I cut out the parts which weren't part of my point, because they weren't necessary to convey the point.
I expect people to go back and click the link to the original post for context; it's just lazy of them to not do so. I just cut out the unnecessary parts so that people can get what I am referring to quickly and easily, with the original post they go back to serving as a way of verifying.

It's simply efficient.

I do it in literally every fucking game I play and have been doing it this entire fucking game; why are you only now noticing this? It's literally an integral part of my playstyle and has been part of it for fucking years.

[mastina]

I do it in literally every fucking game I play and have been doing it this entire fucking game; why are you only now noticing this? It's literally an integral part of my playstyle and has been part of it for fucking years.

Like literally every single player in the game can verify this.

Fuck even Wisdom would if he's not being a total douchebag vouch for the fact I do this literally every fucking game.

It's just efficient. It's a space-saver. It cuts down the length of quotes and removes things that are not pertinent, not relevant, to the point being made, allowing for emphasis to be placed on the parts that are important.

[mastina]

I still maintain that in a universe where A50 is scum and the scum team DOES NOT have any explicit channel spying powers, A50 does not warn the entire game to watch what they say in the channels because he or anyone else could be in there without them knowing.

If I'm reading that right.
Isn't that a given?

That Almost50 would, regardless of his alignment, actually have the claimed power?

It's not exactly something he can fake having (especially if scum lack daychat/lack access to a channel), and the contrary problem exists; he can slip having it and as Dunnstral showed, may have done so already.

There's no realm where he doesn't have the power.

There's just the question of town or scum with it.

[mastina]

Also.

I have gone on record, multiple times, and can quote from multiple sources.

Both of these things.

You would never call these wifom if I actually did this, would you?

At this point, I'm a little too tired for the proactivity required to track them down, but.

I can cite multiple fucking posts in mafia discussion where I outline those two philosophies, across multiple threads.
I can cite multiple fucking games, as both town and scum, where I outline the logic in there as well--particularly as scum, where my modus operandi self-evidently backs up my statements of what I do as scum versus what I don't do.

You can find them yourself even, not too hard. For instance this is a stupidly self-evident one, found just by looking for a thread on the subject of shooting PRs as scum; I outline my philosophy there in one sentence; you kill the most valuable PRs not but hunting for them but by shooting who you want to, fuck PR hunting.

I also recently talked on discord on the subject of killing people who're wrong rather than people who're right, too, but it's elsewhere as well. In MD and also in at least one prior towngame where I used this logic to push a player as scum. (Don't remember if I was right or not.) Actually, now that I think about it, I do remember it.

It's somewhere in my iso this game, referring to Nibbui's reads:
"You don't kill the player when they are right, you wait until they are wrong and THEN you kill them". I said that somewhere in that game. (Mind you I was wrong butstill that shows that I believe in that philosophy and am not bullshitting it. It doesn't matter if YOU, PERSONALLY, disagree with the philosophy; the fact is that

I

believe it, and have a proven track record of believing it, and because I believe it, it is evidence that proves my innocence because my belief in it means I wouldn't break that rule.)

[mastina]

It's not even kinda the "same principle"

Except it fucking is. I do it in literally every fucking game all the time because it is just so intuitive.

No, there isn't "always" a scum mastermind.

Sure, there isn't always a scum mastermind (not what I said), but there

almost

always is (what I did say).

what the fuck happened to role != alignment?

Role != alignment always applies; it is an argument that no role is inherently, in of itself, just by nature of being that role, a town role or a scum role.
Roles can be alignment indicative off of other factors, where role != alignment doesn't apply.
And when the co-kings of mechanical scumhunting both have reasons to suspect that there is a scum role that allows for the scumteam to view every single PT.
That is a damn good reason, because it is a factor other than the role in of itself. The role in a vacuum wouldn't be inherently town or scum; the role outside of the vacuum with the stimulus Drixx and Cerb see

would

be.

When both co-kings of mechanical play suggest the same thing, on their own, having reached the conclusion individually rather than together.
That's pretty compelling reasoning for it being something.

Roles never directly equal alignment.

To put it this way.

Let me put it in a simple example.

I am not going to call a roleblocker a scum role. I am probably right to not make that call because town roleblockers are common enough a role.

However, in a game with a town cop and a town doctor...when I see a roleblocker claim, I am going to be suspicious it is a scum roleblocker. And I am going to almost assuredly be right to make that call because of the setup.

Do you see the distinction between the two?

That is the difference here. Drixx and Cerb have setup-oriented reasons for believing Almost50's claimed role is a scum one--the equivalent of a roleblocker claiming when a town cop and town doc are known to exist in the game.

Well that's how you made it seem; what do you see in her posts that she liked?

I don't have the energy to explain this. But basically, there's a process there that strongly indicates a town mindset and thought pattern. It's difficult for me to describe when losing coherency.

There's just good reasons there.
The neighborhood can back me up there that I'm not bullshitting this.
Dunnstral and Torque both know what I'm referring to and singletonking would vouch in much the similar way (if not stronger than us; I believe he'd do it more than anyone else in fact).

[mastina]

I don't have the energy to explain this. But basically, there's a process there that strongly indicates a town mindset and thought pattern. It's difficult for me to describe when losing coherency.

Also runs into the problem of I'd have to paraphrase her posts without her permission (which is ugly) and without getting too close to her original post (because I am deathly afraid of getting modkilled this game and don't want to cross any line).

[mastina]

Except no it isn't.

Except yes it is--the fact.
That I do this every fucking game.

Literally.

Go read any game of mine, see what I do there, you will find me doing it in every fucking game I every play.
A fact that everyone who has played with me can vouch for.

And most importantly of all--that I

believe

it, is all that matters.

It doesn't matter if you disagree with it personally.

The fact that I believe in it is what's important, because if I believe in it, and it should be pretty fucking obvious I do.

Then that's what matters.

The same Cerb that has maintained for most of the game that despite the spec about his role A50 is town, right?

And Cerb based that townread off of information he later assessed was flawed.

And after reassessing came to the conclusion it was scum.

Oh, but I DO have mod provided information that leads me to believe knowledge of everyone's flavor will allow me to construct a scumpool which may act as an additional STRONG reason to suspect some individuals over others.

Well I can tell you the common theme to our neighborhood is that everyone within comes from a slice of life anime.

scum!gamma doesn't make mastina town. Gamma is scum for sure

Yeah just like scum!SuperfluousNinja didn't make me town, but was scum for sure.
And just like scum!Vedith didn't make me town, but was scum for sure.

[mastina]

mastina hasn't pushed Gamma at all other than posts like the one you quoted. She's going full on A50 the day A50 can't post in the thread; A50 flips town; "I have to reevaluate".

Might wanna check your facts there, fella.

Chito: Why can't we all just join hands, sing kumbaya, and lynch gamma emerald?

We can as a compromise but dammit let me fight for lynching Almost50 first.

Aside from how there are at least half a dozen if not a dozen of the posts "like" the one quoted showing it was not a one-off thing but rather a consistent trend shown throughout the day. (Multiple days, really.)

But that'd be against your viewpoint that I'm scum, so I guess it makes sense you didn't think about how I've been willing to lynch Gamma when Gamma's almost certainly scum.

The main reasons I'm not voting there already are because Almost50 is 100% surefire scum whereas Gamma's only like 80-90% likely scum, and the fact that I actually have more support to lynch Almost50 at the moment than there is on Gamma.

I don't think I lose anything to say it's quite deliberate on my part and that the moment Gamma has momentum, I'm switching there and going to drive hard to get the people on Almost50 right now to vote there.

But that's not for now, because the votes aren't there now.

[mastina]

and we really don't want scum mastina to continue living

Yes because that logic worked so well in No Deadlines when used by flavor leaf.

I really needed to be eliminated from the game that day phase by lynch because as scum I'd have entrenched myself too well otherwise.

Chito: @mastina, please correct the mod's vote count by voting Gamma Emerald

You know what?

Sure.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald.

[mastina]

We should be playing like there's 5 scum because there's a decent chance there's 5 scum

I already told you that's not the case.

In an 18-player game.
The normal amount of scum is 4.
One extra player does not a 5-scumteam make.
Heck.
In a 20-player game.
The norm is still often four--you

can

have 5 at a 20-player game, but it's only 50/50. You see 16:4 just as often as 15:5.

We're looking for four scum, not five.

If we had five groupscum, the mod would've said "at least four youtube copystrikers", with the implication there could be a fifth, but the mod said "at least three", with the implication that there's a fourth.

Bad Yuno, bad.

Yes indeed.
You forgot to remedy her real mistake tho.

I don't approve of a Gamma wagon today, get on Almost

I'll vote for whichever of the two has more momentum.

Right now I'm on Gamma because why not, the VC made an error and I am amused at the thought of making the error not be one, but I'll readily switch back to Almost50 at a moment's notice.

Aside from times I'm sleeping, driving, or too busy with work to check my phone (not gonna get in trouble with work for a fucking online game, sorry), I'm mostly available 24/7 to switch between the two. I've made my argument for why Almost50 is scum and it's the lynch I more want, but if it's impossible to get, then Gamma's an acceptable lynch because she's also almost assuredly scum.

[mastina]

I was more saying it's pretty unlikely mastina as scum nightkills you when you've made so much of your iso insistent on sheeping her reads

We're talking about the N1 kill.

She didn't start doing that until D2.

The events you're referencing didn't happen until after the event I am mentioning.

Joan didn't push Near x Mello until D2 either.

[mastina]

Mastina, you figured out who Joan was by your 8th post in the game. Are you saying you wouldn't have expected her to push Near x Mello at some point?

If I were scum then I'd expect her to push me.

The thought of her pushing Near x Mello never crossed my mind.

But I guarantee you that if I were scum that the thought she could push ME would occur to me.

Now picture Joan's current push on Near x Mello, except it's on me, and imagine scumastina's thoughts on the subject.

Thus.

Why she'd be a nightkill target.

[mastina]

Fucking hell, as if I wasn't already having a bad enough day……

MOD: V/LA DUE TO SNOMWMAGEDDON: SNOWPACOLYPSE DEITION

.

At this rate, we could make a full film series!
SNOWMAGEDDON: "

Hell's not Fire and Brimstone…

"
SNOWMAGEDDON 2: SNOW MORE: "

We Weren't Ready for the Comeback…

"
SNOWMAGEDDON 3: SNOWFALL: "

The Mighty Fallen…

"
SNOWMAGEDDON: SNOWVALANCHE: "

Get Ready to be Buried…

"
SNOWMAGEDDON STRIKES AGAIN: "

There's SNOW Escaping…

"
SNOWMAGEDDON SIX: SNOWPACOLYPSE: "

The End is Upon Us…

"
SNOWMAGEDDON SEVEN: RAGNAROK: "

The Final Installment…

"
SNOWMAGEDDON: SNOW AGE: "

Get Ready for Glaciers…

"

…Admit it. It'd totally work as a cheap SyFy disaster flic film series.

But yeah.
Wish me luck going home.
Given the rest of my day thusfar. I need it.

[mastina]

Votecount 3.8

mastina (Loved)

(2)

~ Near x Mello(82), Reasonably Psychotic(57)

Gamma Emerald(2)

~ Chito and Yuuri(4), mastina(109)

Elena Fisher(2)

~ Pink Ball(52), Almost50(9)

Almost50(2)

~ Dunnstral(34), Elena Fisher(17)

Near x Mello(2)

~ Torque(23), Gamma Emerald(44)


Not Voting (1):

Joan of Arc

(83)

With 10 VOTES it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-13 22:00:00)

MOD REMINDERS

Halfway point reached.
HAPPY SCUMDAY TO mhsmith0!

COMMERCA̫̭̝͇ͦ̌ͦ͒̿̓͟L̪̣̙̩̣̮͒ͮͪ ̧B̿́͑̊̂͋̃͢R̸̠͚̹̄̓̒̄Ê͙̭̜͎̯͜A̱̘̩̬͓̪̙Kͣ

FLAVOR

This is an automated vote count generated by a tool written by MathBlade. It goes much smoother with exact votes but will try to detect bold votes and misspellings. If you have issues during this beta, please get MathBlade.

VOTE: Almost50
Again, will provide more when I can.

[mastina]

Pretty sure this isn't the hammer, so:
VOTE: Gamma Emerald.

Today I finally have the capability to fucking respond to the last...what? 20 pages or so?

I know that technically speaking placing a vote on the lead wagon is detrimental to that as it only takes a hammer in order for my ability to catch up be silenced, but hey.
That's what the neighborhood is for; it serves as an emergency catchup backup, where I can outline my thoughts and bring them to the thread D4 if need be.

But ideally, nobody hammers until after I finished catching up, which will take me a few hours most likely.

[mastina]

Going to rewind for a bit to go back here:

Chito: you get that no one is going to take you self-metaing an argument that you're not proactive as scum seriously when you spend every other post saying you can do literally anything as scum right

It's not a useless point, though.
It's simple math.
I draw scum, on average, about 25% of my games. This is a hard fact, yes?
I am proactive in, at most, about 25% of my scumgames. This is something I just demonstrated, yes?
I am proactive in this game. You don't debate that, do you?

Well then what do you get when you crunch those numbers?

25% * 25% = 6.25% chance that I am scum who is proactive this game.

When you look at it that way, not so worthless to talk about, is it?

[mastina]

But first, let me claim (something mastina is opposed to).

Oh I'm all in favor of my scumreads claiming; I'm also in favor of a massclaim--

tomorrow

, not today.

[mastina]

IMPORTANT: MASTINA WAS PUSHING TOOG HARD. He flipped Town and she didn't reevaluate. She's accusing Wisdom of the very same thing she's doing (just as she is accusing me of playing the way she does as scum)

The difference between the two is that Wisdom has been pushing Elena-mastina as a scumteam

in spite of

a SCUMFLIP which should have brought the scumteam into question.

Toogeloo flipped town, when I had said from the onset, my POE pool was larger than the scumteam. It was ALWAYS going to contain town. That was never a question; my POE pool--as you yourself point out--has, for the entire game, been approximately double the number of scum in the game. Literally 50% of the people in my POE pool at any time are

guaranteed

to flip town.

You, yourself, ALSO point out that I've made my stances on my reads clear; they are fallible, because I am not a top-tier scumhunter.
My townreads? Those aren't going to be wrong and if they are I'd fully expect to be lynched; I'd deserve it.
But my scumreads? I've said from the beginning of the game and have been quite insistent throughout it that I expect to be wrong on them, not to be right.

The reason I'm pushing so hard on you/Gamma is that Elena's got a pass for today, Near x Mello looks unlikely to be scum, and literally everyone else in the game has quite strong reasons to be town.

Those who know me know I do not bus unless necessary, and I simply don't see the need arising just yet at that point.

Who said you bussed?
You can point out suspicion on a scumbuddy, even vote them, without it being a bus, if you've no intention to stay on that wagon.
It's called "distancing", something you absolutely do do as scum.

Can somebody point out why I would state such a strong TR on Toog this early? Why Toog??

It's called "white knighting", and Toogeloo was an easy target for it; someone who is widely scumread, whose townflip puts those attacking him in a worse position and those defending him in a better one.

364 Check scum!me nitpicking on my scum buddy, drawing attention to a slip nobody else seems to have noticed or taken issue with.

Ever heard the expression "TMI"?
The reason nobody noticed or took issue with the slip is because it is the sort of thing that only a scumbuddy would notice.

402 I am half-arse defending Creature (instead of jumping all over him for doing what he does as scum). Scum!me states Creature can be like this as town. Right.

Yes, right.
You're half-assing the defense.

Instead of committing to it, you let yourself have the opportunity to back out if need be.

Would I be more likely to forget to post as town or scum in a game of this caliber? I'll leave that for everyone to answer to themselves.

Wholly nai and don't pretend otherwise. Getting prodded has no alignment attached to it. If it did, I'd be calling you scum for it, but I know better than that.

Good interaction between 2 scum buddies. He even invites his scum buddy to vote with him, but -also- shades his scum buddy for unvoting him.

Yes that was precisely my point.

So, Scum me encourages a cerb/Drixx combined force and Town Mastina shades it????

Yes--because town doesn't know that both Cerb/Drixx are town.
Scum, however, would.
I had reason to believe Cerb was scum at the time. I was thus "shading" him because I was suspicious of him.
You put them both as town without critical analysis. This also applies to:

Also check 734 for me vs Mastian on Toog's alignment. Enough said.

(Note: ONLY major failure was on Vedith, whom I couldn't imagine would state he voted his counterwagon to survive as scum)

Yes your 'only' major failure was one of the two most important fucking flips in the game.

Your "two of these are town, one is scum" is also worthless without saying WHICH of them is the town and which of them is the scum.
You can claim all you want that Robert was scum with the other two as town, now that those flips have happened--where's the proof from before the flip?

...Yeah thought so. There isn't any.

In what world does scum me specify 3 slots as scum and TRs everyone else at this point?

In what world do you not?
It's the perfectly logical stance to take.
Pushing a member of the Vedith wagon would, once Vedith flipped scum, immediately put pressure on you for your chainsaw defense, for instance.

So far, I think these were all accurate statement, except that Vedith was scum.

"So far all the analysis is correct except for the GLARING error which is the most crucial detail of all".

post=#10711108]890[/post] I'm siding by Toog against mastina. Again, make your own judgement on which side I should be taking if I was scum.

When would you EVER side with me when you're scum?

It'd be a fucking red flag; you've NEVER, once in your entire career, sided with me. I'd have eviscerated you on the spot for it.

Mastina shading PB for something she KNEW would be true, since >I< mistook her for the mod earlier in this very game.

You're comparing apples and oranges and you know it.

It is possible to make some mixups in games.

It is not possible to make other mixups in games.

In a role madness UPick game where every player has a flavor character that has abilities tailored to fit the flavor, the idea of someone thinking they're a VT is dubious.

There is nothing to prevent a player from making a mixup on players, thinking someone is someone they're not, or to something of that effect.

Scum!me felt the urge to tell them I saw that and to stop giving "me" more info.

Again, why not?

You had already claimed your role publicly; all actions since having made it public fit with it being public. You're not going to hide it when you know you have access, because hiding it when you have access and have claimed to have access means that you're going to slip up at some point.

but regardless of the alignment it was the right lynch at that point).

Which means regardless of alignment, it doesn't make you town.

Question: I'm scum with Vedith. I know he's flipping red. Instead of being confident voting him based on an obvious slip I am still stuttering to spell s.c.u.m. Perfect for me.

I need only point to my own end of day posting there.

If my end of day posting were something I felt made me town, I'd be insisting on this fact.

Not once have I.

You know why I haven't?

Because I'm not delusional enough to think that what I did wasn't fakeable--in fact, I'm pretty sure I have faked something to that exact effect as scum before.

It is not something which can't be faked--not for me, not for you.

Knowing the slot will flip scum but pretending it won't isn't hard.

1251 pretending not to know Drixx was in CH5 , then deciding to post in that same channel. Oh, Gosh! I must be really stupid! WAIT! Mastina says otherwise. She says I'm a competent scum player. So how did this "little detail" escape me, when I had planned it all from the start?

You're reaching and you know it.

You have access to channel 5, regardless of your alignment.

You knew that Drixx was a member of the channel, regardless of your alignment.

1251 was thus faked, regardless of your alignment.

The only question would be whether the fake was alignment-indicative, and if so which one; the answer there is wholly "no, not really" because you'd do it as scum just as well as town.

Scum me is playing Russian roulette instead of buddying her and just making her swim with the fish at night.

Again.

Not. once.

Have you fucking buddied me.

Not. Once.

Always, you have taken the antagonistic role to me.

If you sided with me, I'd lynch you on the spot for it.

2071 I -again- fail to see the scum motive behind my posting this. I ould be nice if a couple of townies with weaker roles missed the deadline. Must've been a brain fart then.

Unless of course, you genuinely made the error on the mechanics.

You're not perfect as scum, nor have I ever presented the narrative you are. You are a scum planner, sure, but even the best scum planners (e.g. me) make mistakes from time to time.

I read that as being a genuine error; if I hadn't, I'd have brought it up previously.

Difference is, I see no reason why a genuine error = town, when scum make that sort of mistake all the time.

I wonder how mastina stands to type all that shit and then do more!

Practice.

I also can read in less than two months over a million words in a story. (Closer to two million, actually.) You can ask skitter about it, I talked about it on discord with her RE: Worm and how I was up to 27-1 in less than two months in spite of reading the comments sections start to finish on a rather large number of chapters.

Fast reader, surprisingly slow typist. (Well, I type fast--at around 100 wpm when REALLY going. It's just that I "think" slowly. Or rather, more specifically, I think too fast, and need to take time to slow my thoughts down so that something coherent forms. In other words, my brain takes time to "translate" concepts to English, which is where the dissonance is; I read at that accelerated rate and write at that accelerated rate but my demand for perfection in thought leads to a slower writing rate than I otherwise would have. So fast typist in theory, slow typist in practice.)

@Dunn: I don't have access to your channel and I dunno what you said in there

Again.

How the FUCK did you know about Dunnstral's post about Flavor Leaf, if you didn't have access to that information?

I forgot to mention my SR was weakened on Robert by the flip of Vedith. In fact, Vedith flipping scum shook my confidence in my reads a little, but on Robert the most because both of them where in the same channel with me and I was thinking it's unlikely there were 2 scum in the same channel.

Uh-huh.

Again.

"Everything right, except for the MOST CRUCIAL of details".

Also that logic is shit because as you know, Elena and I are in the same channel. This reeks of bullshit that was used to not push Robert.

[mastina]

Btw, mastina is going to do all she can to protect Elena.

Offer expires D4.
Elena's getting a pass for today.
I've made that clear.

She gets no pass tomorrow.
She proves she's town, or she dies.

That simple.

But she got a one day phase pass, and that's it.

I've made this abundantly clear before.

And my entire channel will back me up on my reasoning why.
It's not like my reasons are super sekrit; I've been telling them in the channel precisely why Elena is getting that one-day pass from me and every single one of them will be able to vouch/verify it.

(Mind you, Torque and Dunn are apparently idiotic enough where they literally forgot about this crucial detail, but I reminded them of it in the PT so they SHOULD remember it now and why I've been pushing not-Elena today.)

mastina is a great mod, but as a player she is hardly even average.

This applies to my towngame only--I'm a damn fucking good scum player, a fact you are all well too aware of.

But yes, it does in fact apply to my towngame; about average, usually lower, but in select circumstances, much higher than average. (E.g. nailing 3/4 members of the scumteam in Earthbound, nailing most of the scum--even if accidentally--in Steven Universe 2, Yume's Cutsie UPick.) Given the right environmental conditions, I can fucking DESTROY a scumteam. Those conditions absent, I am below average because I can't

tell

they are absent (most of the time).

It's not like I magically know "I have the scum on lock". (Except when I do.) It's not like I magically know "I'm doing terribly here" (except when I do). Most of the time, I simply have no way of differentiating between the two: nailed scumteam...or less-than-average reads. So when you average out "times I was an amazing scumhunter" with "the times I perform as I usually do, a little worse than random", it becomes "average scumhunter, if that", where if you're generous you can call me average.

She tries to bore people to death with her gigantic walls that almost nobody reads

I refrained from the walls until today--there was a damn fucking good reason for this; the SuperfluousNinja interactions playing out as they did and then

me becoming a lynch candidate when I should have become conftown

were the catalyst.

I guarantee you, those factors absent, I wouldn't be walling today.

But because I was fucking pushed. When I should have been fucking conftown. Ticked me off.

I was scum reading the predecessor and she wasn't.

Oh, really?

What was this, then?

Also SSBF proly town

Nooooo not really. He's not a scumread but he's the closest thing to being one without being one.

Vedith is, by far, the weakest, in that while I didn't think SSBF's content was good, I lack the meta familiarity to give context for his play, and Vedith here is harder to read but vaguely gives off some :goodvibes: overall. He's a compromise read more than anything else.

Sounds like I was pretty damn suspicious of SSBF but thought Vedith was less so!

A wagon builds on Vedith and suddenly she decides to join it

Also false.
I joined it because I promised I would.
I said I'd vote Vedith when we were under 48 hours.
We got to under 48 hours, so I voted him.
Wagon be damned, if I was a fucking vanity voter on Vedith I'd still have voted him because I promised I would.

and even now she's trying to take credit for it when she clearly had nothing to do with building the original wagon.

She also said you were scum, in the beginning but then reversed her read on you when nobody bought it.

Yeah no.
I don't back off scumreads as scum when nobody buys them--quite the opposite, that's when I double down on them.
scumastina's not afraid to push players she alone scumreads; quite the opposite, it's her preference.

I changed my read on Reasonably Psychotic because the circumstances changed. Because I had reason to believe Cerb was town that I didn't hold before then.

all she cares to do is control the game and do what she wants, as either alignment.

Also false.
The one and only fucking reason I'm controlling the game this game is because I fucking believe I have damn good reason to.

Looking at any given towngame, I don't control it--this has been shown, proven, time and time again.
That's not because I tried and failed--it's because I never tried because I never wanted to.

The way I control the game as scum is not by taking over, but by staying in the back seat and subtly manipulating things behind the scenes; this has a long established track record that can be shown in almost any scumgame of the last few years.

If she's town and the lynch she drives i on town she goes back to blame it on someone else, or even on the lynchee themselves.

Also false.
I keep pushing scumreads, yes.
But I don't blame someone for my wrong reads.
I haven't once said it was Toogeloo's fault I scumread him; I haven't once said I wasn't responsible for that wrong read; I've not once said that it was some other player's fault I scumread Toogeloo.

I'll own up to my mistakes...and then I move on.

Because that's the only way to play; you don't progress the game by wailing in self-pity of "woe is me, I got a read wrong"; you progress the game by continuing to fucking push people.

If mastina is town AND is as good as you think she is, then WHY THE FUCK IS SHE STILL ALIVE?

Because there were better nightkills and just because someone thinks I am good does not mean the scumteam reciprocates that.

You, for instance, with this very analysis have shown that you hold no respect for my capabilities, so if you're on the scumteam...

Then check the list she provided. This is her " early lynch pool" which has 10 entries. Even assuming FIVE scum (not just 4) then she has 5 townies listed in there. Simple math. Now which of the 10 she least wants to lynch? That's right. SCUM FUCKING ROBERT. She put him higher than AT LEAST 5 CONFIRMED TOWNIES.

Yeah, the key word there is

earliest

lynch pool.

Robert continued falling down that list.
And down.
And down.
And down.

Further and further down.

Because my read there went from "townread--I guess this is similar enough to last game" to fading into "ehhh not really townreading him anymore" to "hey wait a sec, that means he could be scum" to "no, wait, it means he

is

scum".

Newsflash, reads progress.

There isn't a player in the game who I haven't townread at some point. (Well, not alive, anyway. Dead? Dead, that'd be Toogeloo as the one and only person who was consistently a scumread.)
There's also only a small fraction of players in the game I haven't scumread at one point--I can count them on one hand, in fact. Chito and Yuuri, Torque, is there even more than just those two? Pretty sure there isn't, that everyone else was at some point a scumread.

You can thus.
Because I've townread every player in the game at some point.
And because I've scumread every player in the game at some point.
Selectively quote from your choice area of the game and say, "SEE? SEE? LOOK AT THIS WRONG READ RIGHT HERE ON THE FLIPPED PLAYER!"
Ignoring the fucking reads evolution present where the read was different later (and/or maybe, earlier).

That slot was MOD KILLED. mastina had nothing to do with the flip yet she is trying to steal credit for it too.

Because it is pretty fucking self-evident that SuperfluousNinja tilted because of me?

Fuck yes, I have something to do with that.

Now, Elena is NOT on the list.

On that list? No, I was townreading her in part because of her neighborhood posts.

But she

is

in the list today, which you'd know if you weren't selectively ignoring facts of my posts.

[mastina]

There's also only a small fraction of players in the game I haven't scumread at one point--I can count them on one hand, in fact. Chito and Yuuri, Torque, is there even more than just those two? Pretty sure there isn't, that everyone else was at some point a scumread.

Since I included the dead Torque for the inverse, I suppose I can include the dead Drixx here as well. Also Spike and Jet, I suppose. Oh I guess Clemency/Ankamius, too?
That's still a single hand, though. Five slots townread never changed.

Everyone else, alive or dead, has been a townread at some point and a scumread at another.
SSBF? Scumread. Vedith? Townread. Then scumread.
singletonking? Wavered between townread and scumread. Usually more the former than the latter, but the latter cropped up from time to time.
Morality/Flavor Leaf/Severa? Townread, then scumread, then no-read.
Of the living players?
Cerb? Scumread. Then townread.
Joan? Scumread. Then townread.
Near x Mello? Scumread. Then townread.
Dunnstral? Scumread. Then townread.
Elena? Townread. Then scumread, but given a day pass.
You? Townread. Then scumread.
Gamma? Townread. Then scumread.
Pink Ball? Scumread. Then townread.

Every single read of mine among the living, bar two, has changed.

You can't fucking point to an initial Robert read as evidence of something when that fucking read changed, and quite obviously, self-evidently so.

[mastina]

why am i even talking about joan

Because Almost50 wanted you to be.

[mastina]

In that game, mastina simply updates her reads list a lot, but she doesn't make these long wallposts over-analyzing every movement of her reads list.

You have to understand two key factors.
1: Steven Universe 2 represented a shift in the way I played. It was the transition from mastin2 to mastina--and there is a deeply personal reason for this shift, actually, one which I can discuss over PMs but won't discuss in person. There's something unique about mastina that wasn't present on mastin2...but Steven Universe 2 represented the first time that this thing began to appear. (Basically, there was a gigantic shift in playstyle happening over the course of that game. At the beginning, I was mastin2; by the end, I was mastina.)

2: I only started the long wallposts after the SuperfluousNinja modkill,

in tandem

with people then being suspicious of ME after it.

If that was absent.

I wouldn't be making the long wallposts.

What you see here is the result of something I fucking KNOW is self-destructive and usually stay away from doing--but because

I am fucking pissed

, I stopped caring about it being self-destructive.

My D1 play?
Normal me.
My D2 play?
Not

as

normal of me, but still

close

to my normal me.
My D3 play prior to the modkill?
Normal me.

My D3 play post-modkill?

Fucking ticked off.

[mastina]

SNOWMAGEDDON SEVEN: RAGNAROK: "

The Final Installment…

"
SNOWMAGEDDON: SNOW AGE: "

Get Ready for Glaciers…

"

I'd like to make an amendment to seven's tagline:
"

The CHILLING Conclusion to the Epic Saga...

"

[mastina]

VOTE: Almost50
Again, will provide more when I can.

@Joan: What did I tell you?

Nothing I didn't already explicitly tell everyone earlier, so it's not like you were telling people anything I hadn't already:

Right now I'm on Gamma because why not, the VC made an error and I am amused at the thought of making the error not be one, but I'll readily switch back to Almost50 at a moment's notice.

Aside from times I'm sleeping, driving, or too busy with work to check my phone (not gonna get in trouble with work for a fucking online game, sorry), I'm mostly available 24/7 to switch between the two. I've made my argument for why Almost50 is scum and it's the lynch I more want, but if it's impossible to get, then Gamma's an acceptable lynch because she's also almost assuredly scum.

I think there's another post too, but can't be assed to track it down, where I explicitly said, "I'll vote for whichever of those wagons has more momentum."

Your wagon had more momentum than Gamma's at the time.

I just switched to Gamma because while you were at L-1, the wagon fell apart and people switched to Gamma--meaning she had more momentum than you did.

[mastina]

@Torque I have information you don't have about A50, you shouldn't vote him.

And I have information you don't about Elena (well unless you do), so you shouldn't vote her.

We could indeed go on with this forever.

But I have damn good reasons for this process.

Elena's either confirmed tomorrow, or tomorrow's lynch.

You know that offer I made in regards to Toogeloo?

Same deal applies for tonight.

Literally exact same one, in fact, only difference being I think Elena's town while I thought Toog was scum, but the important part is.
Elena's not getting off the hook. She either becomes confirmed tomorrow, or she's lynched tomorrow.

[mastina]

And WITH TWO BLOODY MILLERS GUARANTEEING WE HAVE AN INVESTIGATIVE, how the hell do we know if one of us didn't get checked already? We can't both be GFs, can we? So why do we risk lynching the GF (if one existed) and have the other guiltied?

You can apply this same logic to Elena and I.

I am, quite literally.

The perfect investigation target.

As scum, I take it as a given that I'm going to be investigated, because literally nobody is a better target than I am; my scumplay revolves largely around minimizing the damage/fallout from the resulting investigation. Because I know it'll happen. People fear my scumgame too much. People always think everything comes from scumastina, because anything could.

Elena has been a lynch candidate since D1--why wouldn't she be investigated?

You can make strong arguments for both of us being investigated, and those arguments are no less valid than any argument you could pose for Gamma/yourself.

[mastina]

thats the spewing post i'm looking for (3977)

I don't really think it is, but one of the reasons I switched to Gamma beyond the momentum moving there was precisely because of it--you know what I said about picking and choosing battles?

I'd be fighting a losing one there, soooooooooo.

[mastina]

I want Elena lynched. mastina's going to resist that as either alignment.

Because I have fucking good reason to--today.

That reasoning disappears, or is permanently cemented, by tomorrow.

Elena's either getting lynched D4, or never lynched this game at all.

No two ways about it.

[mastina]

Pretty sure this isn't the hammer, so:
VOTE: Gamma Emerald.

When was the last time mastina miscounted votes and "accidentally" hammered??

That would be Steven Universe: Prequel. (Well, sort-of. I thought I was casting a double-vote which would place RR at L-1; it was a triple-vote.)
My other accidental hammers were hammers because I didn't even know the slots were being voted, which this game is decidedly not because I switched my vote to Gamma specifically

because

I knew she was being voted.

But I'm not seeing the hammer?

I'm pretty sure it's like, four, five votes including my own.

[mastina]

Not gonna respond to SCUM!mastina, but I will note she's arguing for the sake of argument even if it makes her look more of a REDACTED.

Yes, I am.

FOR GOOD FUCKING REASON.

I have good fucking reason to be arguing this shit.

She insists it doesn't make sense for PB to confuse his role when she's explicitly TRing him.

I've made my viewpoint on this quite clear.
Just because a point is good, does not mean the point is right.
In a role madness UPick game where every player has a flavor character that has abilities tailored to fit the flavor, the idea of someone thinking they're a VT is dubious.
This is a good point.

It is also not a right one, because in spite of that, Pink Ball is town. More than that, he has an excuse; not being the original slot holder, that sort of error goes from "literally impossible to make" to "okay so it seems a little weird, but it's at least possible, and benefit of the doubt...".

[mastina]

even the best scum planners (e.g. me)

Best scum planner my ears. You never have been.

Try telling that to me next time I'm scum.

My plans as scum may not win the game always, but they do a damn fucking good job of, when followed, getting us much closer to the win.

Or are you going to argue that all those times that my scumteam has gone from nearly obliterated to dangerously close to winning were because of nothing but bad luck and shitty towns (in spite of that being literally the opposite of the case where it was the towns not being shitty which necessitated creativity in scum planning)?

Heck, Nancy's still tilted-as-fuck that my plan managed to hard-frame her in mystery box of silver. That was carefully planned, carefully engineered, to give us a shot at victory. We had pretty much 0% odds of winning on D1, because the scumteam were 100% in the poe of literally every single town player; there wasn't a town player who wasn't scumreading one or BOTH of us.

My strength as scum isn't in avoiding scumreads--never claimed it was. I can't avoid being scumread, and don't even try. My strength as scum is in exploiting those scumreads, and turning that 0% chance of winning into like...a 5, 10% chance of winning. Not good odds, but sheep got to lylo that game, following the plan I laid out for him to a T. And he made some good points, too, just...not good enough to overcome the 90-95% odds he was up against.

Nobody as scum could've won that game. I don't care if it were fucking RadiantCowbells himself, the town that game was literally top-notch-as-top-notch-gets. It was unwinnable from D1--and I turned unwinnable-from-D1 into fight-to-the-bitter-end. Heck, Pink Ball was in that game so he saw me there. He saw what I did; was my plan that of someone unskilled as scum? Or was it something that, given the circumstances, was literally the best (and frankly only) play to make?

I may not win my scumgames, but I can also tell you that pretty much each and every loss--barring some fringe cases--was still a personal victory for me in the front of manipulation. In the front of turning the situation to my side. (Granted, it does only work if my scumbuddies follow my plan; bussing me when I explicitly tell them don't fucking bus me yet tends to ruin those plans. )

[mastina]

She also said you were scum, in the beginning but then reversed her read on you when nobody bought it.

Yeah no.
I don't back off scumreads as scum when nobody buys them--quite the opposite, that's when I double down on them.
scumastina's not afraid to push players she alone scumreads; quite the opposite, it's her preference.

I changed my read on Reasonably Psychotic because the circumstances changed. Because I had reason to believe Cerb was town that I didn't hold before then.

I believe they were talking about your read reversal on me, not RP.

Point stands--I could have pushed you if I wanted to; there was nothing anyone else did which made me not want to.

However, because I'm town, I genuinely had the read shift when in tandem with knowing your identity and knowing you were trying to improve your play, I had perspective I previously lacked. That perspective shifted the read. Not the perspective of others. The perspective from me, about you.

[mastina]

I'm a damn fucking good scum player, a fact you are all well too aware of.

Not when I have identified you as scum on D1 (and in the first half of the day mind you) in TM 2018.

Hey newsflash.

Team Mafia 2018 was literally a picture-perfect replication of my towngame.

Literally have never had a scumgame closer to replicating my towngame.

Heck, it's that game which is why I say "anything I could do, could come from scumastina".
Not any other game.
Not any prior game.
Not any future games past it.

If you look, I'm pretty sure that phrase was nonexistent prior to that game, but slowly came to use after it--because that game represented the ultimate proof of it; I broke almost every single one of my towntells in that game. The VERY few that weren't broken there did get broken in

later

scumgames, but the VAST majority of my towntells were broken that game.

And also newsflash.

Team Mafia 2018 represented me constantly.
Neverendingly.
Being behind.

I was over 100 pages behind when they lynched me there.
I never checked with my teammates; I was too busy trying to post in thread.
I barely knew anything that was going on there.
That was a highly unusual scumgame of mine--one which was for all intents and purposes, not a true scumgame.

I was always behind.
That wasn't a fake.
That wasn't me lying.
That wasn't me exaggerating.
I literally was reading slower than new pages were cropping up.
I

couldn't

play to my maximum effect, because there wasn't a way for me to do so.
And yet in spite of the D1 lynch on me.
In spite of the inability to keep up with the game.

It remains my best scumgame ever.
Because it was just

that

damn close a replica of my towngame.

I've never since managed to replicate it as well as I did that game.

The issue with that game was that the majority of the people in that game were scumreading my towngame.

The people intimately familiar with my towngame? Those were the people

townreading

me there. Ghostlin, for instance, was fooled through-and-through...not because he lacked experience with me, but because he

had

experience with me.

In that game, I only made that one mistake. That one mistake, which I do regret; I tailored my game to look like my towngame perfectly--which in a playerlist filled to the brim with players who knew me, would've worked...but in a playerlist which didn't know me, didn't work. I should've recognized that the players in there didn't know my towngame and then proceed to not give a fuck about it, to scum it up openly...which would've caused the people who knew me to scumread me, but they wouldn't have been able to do a damn thing about it because the majority would've townread me.

Like I said, I'm human, so I do make mistakes and that one tactical mistake did cost me the game. But I will never stop defending my play there for being what it was; a perfect recreation of my towngame at the time. I will also never stop to admit the fault of it, being that I didn't need my towngame that game; I needed my scumgame, fuck being scumread by the people who'd know it was such, so I suppose you can say.

I made a mistake that game which I know and acknowledge, but I did

the

absolute best

I possibly could have,

given

the mistake I made. There was no way to make a more perfect recreation of my towngame, because that was my towngame through-and-through. It's just that I didn't need my towngame, and thinking I did was a tactical error on my part.

Or I suppose you could put it even more simply.
I executed the plan I made

absolutely perfectly

, I just made a mistake and executed the

wrong

plan, because I am human and thus, not perfect in my judgments. Thought I needed something I didn't, and thinking I needed it made me play in a way that hurt my chances of winning.

Specifically, mind you.
I can even tell you the thing that'd have saved me that game.
"Fuck reading the whole game, I'll catch up from here".
If I had done that?
I could've averted my lynch--but I didn't, because at that time, I'd never done that as town; I'd done it exclusively as scum, and I was terrified that in doing so I'd be scumclaiming. (My meta has since shifted thanks to me now using my phone a lot, so that I now almost always am more up to date than I used to be, because being behind was debilitating me as both alignments, so I decided to discard the silly restriction.)

[mastina]

Am I missing something here

Yes, you are.

Why would a modkill on scum make you 'fucking ticked off' as town?

Well for a start, a modkill rather than a lynch prevented me from giving further interactions that would've proven I'm not scum with SuperfluousNinja, but more to the point, it wasn't JUST the modkill.

It was the modkill, in tandem with being pushed as scum

after

the modkill when the modkill should've made it abundantly clear I was town.

[mastina]

I don't know why you would forget our vote was still on Gamma, and then all the votes to L-1 were basically right next to each other on 160... you knew what you were doing.

To the contrary.

No, I didn't know about your vote; I thought you were one of the ones that moved to Almost50.
No, I didn't count the exact number of votes; I saw people moving, and lots of people at that, and that was good enough for me.

I didn't think I was hammering Gamma, but honestly I don't care.

I made it clear I'd vote Gamma if Almost50 wasn't happening.
Almost50 wasn't going to happen.

You're surprised at the logical conclusion of that?

You shouldn't be.

Because if one thing has been made clear about me.

It's that I fucking do exactly what I promise to do.

I promised I'd vote whichever of Almost50 and Gamma Emerald had more momentum.

Gamma Emerald had more momentum.

[mastina]

I'm a pretty okay scum planner. That's all.

You would be among the best, yes; I consider you my equal in that department.

Is probably why I can counter you so well when you're scum and I'm town.

Mind you, is also the source of many a false positives but that's a given, one which we're both aware of, so.

[mastina]

Chito: Mastina you wanna claim flavor for RP?

Hmm...

+

=
Me.

I'll claim the flavor outright tomorrow, but this'll allow anyone who's seen the show to know who I am by the description of "very gay, gropes her targets", knowing the show's classified as slice-of-life.
(Also, VA for character does performances where she sings--and is not the only one from the show to do so.)

[mastina]

@Torque I have information you don't have about A50, you shouldn't vote him.

And I have information you don't about Elena (well unless you do), so you shouldn't vote her.

We could indeed go on with this forever.

But I have damn good reasons for this process.

Elena's either confirmed tomorrow, or tomorrow's lynch.

You know that offer I made in regards to Toogeloo?

Same deal applies for tonight.

Literally exact same one, in fact, only difference being I think Elena's town while I thought Toog was scum, but the important part is.
Elena's not getting off the hook. She either becomes confirmed tomorrow, or she's lynched tomorrow.

Are you fucking kidding me? I said "we could go on with this forever" in that same post, mastina. Read the whole fucking posts.

Preach what you say, fella.
I did, you apparently didn't.

[mastina]

Okay, so I am curious. What do you think of this?

Reasonably Psychotic's response said everything, so I didn't need to.

[mastina]

You realize this is the exact sort of thing that gives the scum team more info than town, because scum is composed of multiple people, any one of whom could have seen the show/have the time to research, while each town is alone?

Which would be why I wasn't planning on posting it at all, but you're insisting on the flavor claim.

I just gave you the most important aspects of my flavor--there's literally nothing more flavor-wise; anything else is dipping into actually-part-of-my-role territory. If nothing I posted stuck out to you, then it means that I don't have the thing you're looking for, the information I was trying to convey.

I suppose I could give one extra hint though:
What Sayori from Doki Doki was, I am also. It was also the same thing which Yuri was. (Yuri also more closely physically resembles my character, with hair length/color and...ah, well-endowed.)

Literally everything else is directly tied to role, not flavor.

[mastina]

I'm about 3000% more concerned about the fact that you claimed you didn't think it was a hammer than that you actually hammered.

Doesn't matter.
It's the truth.
I didn't think I hammered.

I don't lie as scum, so that is a statement which is true regardless of my alignment.

I didn't know it was, period. End of discussion.

Talk to Cerb, talk to Joan, talk to anyone who has played with me on whether I lie as scum; they'll tell you the same thing I will.
I firmly believe the truth is the best weapon of scum. Lies stand out, and can be picked up by the town. But if you're telling the truth, your sincerity and genuineness shines through--weapons you can turn into townreads on your slot.

I didn't know it was a hammer, but I don't really care that it was.

[mastina]

My plan's to fullclaim and vote Elena, but I may not get a chance to do all the work I need.

Elena originally planned to target Pink Ball, but we need to wait for her to claim her actual target; said target is conftown. That's why I wanted her alive yesterday; she had an unblockable investigative action guaranteed to work.

Also not surprised Dunn died, given that he was a supporter of mine, which makes it easier to lynch me.

Still, tho. I'm quite disappointed that nobody's switched roles got to interact with poor Nozomi.
When not phoneposting, I'll fullclaim.

[mastina]

Also.
If Elena DIDN'T target Pink Ball.
He's got some 'splainin to do.
Dunnstral SHOULD have killed his attacker.
He did not.
Meaning that his target was immune.
Only one player has kill immunity claimed, so…

[mastina]

(Obviously I didn't switch, because Nozomi is my bae.)

[mastina]

I was a female

Okay so I'm outing this now.

Elena claimed in our neighborhood that her N3 power was a Strongman Weak Visitor--
Strongman meant she couldn't fail; Weak meant that if she targeted scum, she'd be dead.

She asked if she should keep the role or discard it.
We told her to keep the role.

Torque suggested either Pink Ball or Joan as targets.
Elena agreed to target Pink Ball.

But that was before Pink Ball had that thingy happen to him, so I was waiting on Elena to tell us if she did target him or if she switched her target.

VOTE: Elena Fisher.

Full roleclaim from me next post.

[mastina]

(Obviously I didn't switch, because Nozomi is my bae.)

This would be

Nozomi Tojo

from

Love Live!

As a vice-president, I

know the game started with no characters that are student body presidents

. This is the Informed I started the game with. Obviously, post-switch, that information is worthless. Heck, I immediately claimed it to my neighborhood at gamestart because I expected it to be more likely to catch town fakeclaiming that scum; I didn't see any chance of catching scum fakeclaiming a character that's a student body president.

My N2 unlock is groping--

I roleblock female players

, but there's a FURTHER restriction beyond it being a female-specific targeting ability. I can't target the same person with this ability twice. That's not "if I target someone N2 with this, the soonest I could target them with it is N4"; that's "if I target someone N2 with this, I can never again target them with this in the whole game", so the roleblock is fairly worthless. I don't intend to make use of it, though, because my N3 unlock is my true power.

My N3 unlock is

three tarot cards

--I can use each one of these tarot cards once in the game.
The tarot cards I was given were

Fortune, Strength,

and

Magician

.
I was told that playing them in reverse would hurt my target; playing them upright would help my target.
However, beyond the flavor clues of what the tarot cards are, I have no clue what they do; this makes me a hybrid Dreaming God/Inventor. (This was the aforementioned parallel between games mind you; I was an inventor in that game, too.)

Since I am illiterate in tarot cards, I asked my neighborhood for advice on which of the three sounded most protection role like. I still have my notepad file open and can copy it in fact:

Spoiler: Notepad research

(WHEEL OF) FORTUNE:
Upright: change, cycles, inevitable fate,
Reversed: no control, clinging to control, bad luck

They are rotating forever, in a cycle, and suggests that as one comes up, the other goes down.

The Wheel of Fortune turns evermore, seemingly to communicate that life is made up of both good and bad times, and that the cycle is one that we cannot control. It is something that is subjected to both kings and workers, and that nobody on earth can avoid what is fated. When you have good moments in your life, make sure that you enjoy to the fullest, for what comes up must always go down. The same is true in reverse - when you are in a bad situation, things will eventually become better again.

Greater forces that are outside of human control are at work here. The same forces that govern the changing of the seasons, or the rising and setting of the sun is also the master of luck and the fate of individuals. Where it lands is as random as chance - you may find yourself at either the top or bottom, but remember that no matter what the outcome it may not last for very long, for the wheel always turns.




STRENGTH:
Upright: inner strength, bravery, compassion, focus,
Reversed: self doubt, weakness, insecurity

Despite the fact that the lion looks menacing and strong, the woman seems to have dominion over it. What is captivating is how gracefully she controls the lion. She is calm and collected, which is representative for being in control and disciplined especially in times of great adversities.

The fact that she is also holding the jaws of a lion also shows that she has courage. Her control of the lion without being too rough shows love and compassion. The blue background over the mountains shows stability and the kind of calmness that comes with being stable.

The lion is a symbol of courage, passion and desire which are very much part of the human feelings that are necessary for survival.

When you get the Strength card in an upright manner during your tarot reading, then it shows that you have inner strength and fortitude during moments of danger and distress. It shows that you have the ability to remain calm and strong even when your life is going through immense struggle. It also shows that you are a compassionate person and you always have time for other people even if it's at your own expense.

Your resilience will greatly aid you, and your fearlessness means that you should have no issues speaking your mind.

Getting the strength card means that you are a very patient individual who is likely to accomplish anything that they put their mind to. Your resilience will greatly aid you, and your fearlessness means that you should have no issues speaking your mind. This card also indicates this kind of compassion will always be rewarded with having a lot of stability in your life either presently on in the near future.




THE MAGICIAN:
Upright: willpower, desire, creation, manifestation,
Reversed: trickery, illusions, out of touch

The central figure depicts someone with one hand pointed to the sky, while the other hand points to the ground, as if to say "as above, so below".

It can also be interpreted here that the magician symbolizes the ability to act as a go-between between the world above and the contemporary, human world.

The infinity sign on his head indicates the infinite possibilities of creation with the will.

The Magician is the representation of pure willpower. With the power of the elements and the suits, he takes the potential innate in the fool and molds it into being with the power of desire. He is the connecting force between heaven and earth, for he understands the meaning behind the words "as above so below" - that mind and world are only reflections of one another. Remember that you are powerful, create your inner world, and the outer will follow.

Remember that you are powerful, create your inner world, and the outer will follow.

When you get the Magician in your reading, it might mean that it's time to tap into your full potential without hesitation. It might be in your new job, new business venture, a new love or something else. It shows that the time to take action is now and any signs of holding back would mean missing the opportunity of becoming the best version of yourself. Certain choices will have to be made and these can bring great changes to come. Harness some of the Magician's power to make the world that you desire most.

My neighborhood concluded that Fortune was the one most likely to be a protective, so

last night I targeted Torque with upright Fortune

.

Torque should probably claim if it succeeded or not (I think that's valuable info to know), but I think it should probably not be said what the ability I gave him actually does. (I'm as curious as everyone else since I legit don't know, but there's no way to keep the scum in the dark when doing so and I think keeping scum in dark > knowing what the card did exactly.)

[mastina]

The neighborhood was locked mastina. I couldn't tell you my target.

You could now; you didn't.

[mastina]

My N2 unlock is groping--

I roleblock female players

, but there's a FURTHER restriction beyond it being a female-specific targeting ability. I can't target the same person with this ability twice. That's not "if I target someone N2 with this, the soonest I could target them with it is N4"; that's "if I target someone N2 with this, I can never again target them with this in the whole game", so the roleblock is fairly worthless. I don't intend to make use of it, though, because my N3 unlock is my true power.

I forgot to mention here that I did use it N2, on Toogeloo, as I previously claimed.

I knew N2 would be the only time I'd make use of it, though, because my N3 power is the power that I intend to use N3, N4, and N5, and the game should be long over before we need an N6.

I further knew from the moment this game became a game of POE (and was leaning that way anyway even before then) that I was going to be using the tarot cards upright to help townreads rather than reverse to hurt scumreads, because I trust my townreads to be superior to my scumreads, making it more useful overall.

[mastina]

The neighborhood was locked mastina. I couldn't tell you my target.

You could now; you didn't.

And why does it matter if I out this in the neighborhood or in public?

The neighborhood's locked, and it's apparently staying that way.

Out here's the only spot to put it.

[mastina]

However, beyond the flavor clues of what the tarot cards are, I have no clue what they do; this makes me a hybrid Dreaming God/Inventor. (This was the aforementioned parallel between games mind you; I was an inventor in that game, too.)
Torque should probably claim if it succeeded or not (I think that's valuable info to know), but I think it should probably not be said what the ability I gave him actually does. (I'm as curious as everyone else since I legit don't know, but there's no way to keep the scum in the dark when doing so and I think keeping scum in dark > knowing what the card did exactly.)

(And yes, Pink Ball plus any other players of mystery box of silver I forget about. The irony does not escape me. I'm quite aware of the parallels between my role this game and my fakeclaim that game. But since I don't lie as scum, not like that, the choice you face is whether I got the role as town or I got the role as scum; either way, I did in fact get the role.)

[mastina]

The reasonwhy I am willing to vote mastina is because A50 suddenly became a play of the game the night I was going to use my visit. It was very clear I was going to visit A50 before that happened. Him becoming aPGO ruins that because even if I died it wouldn't outright damn him as a scumread.

I had no control over what Almost50 claimed--in fact, I was the one who brought his claim to the attention of the neighborhood.
I suggested either Elena intentionally suiciding on Almost50 (as the possible results were: he's a town PGO and she dies; he's scum lying and she dies; he's a scum PGO and she dies), or Elena using it as an investigative (my suggestion was Near x Mello, but Torque advocated for choosing one of Pink Ball or Joan).

Elena said after that she'd target Pink Ball.

[mastina]

The reasonwhy I am willing to vote mastina is because A50 suddenly became a play of the game the night I was going to use my visit. It was very clear I was going to visit A50 before that happened. Him becoming aPGO ruins that because even if I died it wouldn't outright damn him as a scumread.

I had no control over what Almost50 claimed--in fact, I was the one who brought his claim to the attention of the neighborhood.
I suggested either Elena intentionally suiciding on Almost50 (as the possible results were: he's a town PGO and she dies; he's scum lying and she dies; he's a scum PGO and she dies), or Elena using it as an investigative (my suggestion was Near x Mello, but Torque advocated for choosing one of Pink Ball or Joan).

More specifically, I made it clear to Elena.
"If you don't suicide, I'm lynching you tomorrow".
The idea was to either have her die, removing her from today's lynch pool, or investigate a player, have said player become conftown, and then lynch her today.

[mastina]

Also, I'm conf town. Just so you all know

I'll believe it when I see it.

Mind you, I'd be more than happy to see it. There'd be a certain degree of smugness to be had there (among other reasons proving the Elena-mastina scumteam's impossible; proving I was on the right track reads-wise; proving Near x Mello wrong altogether), butstill.
There's enough sketchiness from your slot that I am heavily skeptical.

Thus.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[mastina]

Boring

Oi! I'll have you know slice-of-life is anything but! Don't you go insulting my favorite genre.

I'm claiming that Dunnstral picked me as his target last night. Sadly, the question I asked was to help prove if that meant I was the target of the scum night kill, but the mods answer basically said the mafia could've just tried to kill him as well. So, no I am not conf town. However I can conf Pink ball as town as he is the one I visit'd

Did you ask the mod,
"If I visited scum, and Dunnstral protected me, what would happen?", or something to that effect?

I want to make sure the bases are covered, just to be sure, because if Pink Ball can in fact be made absolutely conftown beyond all doubt...well then, with his bulletproof status...he's not only not Dunnstral's killer, but also unkillable conftown.

[mastina]

Did Dunn claim he planned to target Elena in any of the channels?

The closest we got was a post which in hindsight was a "lol, whoops, I fucked up" post from him where he said, "I didn't think Ankamius was the obvious nightkill for some reason, I thought it'd be Torque", implying he protected Torque N2 and potentially hinting at wanting to N3.

[mastina]

Good enough for me.

At this stage for the record, don't think Elena's scum--but I do think she still needs to be lynched today.

Half so the fucks still suspecting her can go fuck off with their bullshit, but half also to have that conftown status for Pink Ball.

I still believe, strongly, that Almost50 is scum, but I admit I don't have a second. Best guess is Near x Mello, but it's precisely that.

[mastina]

Wait. Weren’t Elena and Martina working together because Elena thought Mastina was loved? And now Mastina is saying to lynch Elena for the sake of getting people off her back?

You apparently have incredibly poor reading comprehension.

Yesterday, the one and only reason I was defending Elena was so that she could use her role.
She used her role.
I thus have no reason to defend her today.
Yesterday, I promised I would lynch her today.
I am lynching her today.

I still don't think she's scum.

But because she's in the poe pool, there's still many people scumreading her, and her flip will conftown Pink Ball (who is, notably, bulletproof, thus, UNKILLABLE conftown), there's no better lynch than her in spite of me personally thinking she's not scum.

[mastina]

Mastina and elena are supposedly suspecting each other today, but you'll find that they still wont vote each other

I was a female

Okay so I'm outing this now.

Elena claimed in our neighborhood that her N3 power was a Strongman Weak Visitor--
Strongman meant she couldn't fail; Weak meant that if she targeted scum, she'd be dead.

She asked if she should keep the role or discard it.
We told her to keep the role.

Torque suggested either Pink Ball or Joan as targets.
Elena agreed to target Pink Ball.

But that was before Pink Ball had that thingy happen to him, so I was waiting on Elena to tell us if she did target him or if she switched her target.

VOTE: Elena Fisher.

[mastina]

they still wont vote each other

scratch, apparently mastina voted Elena
but still

"Apparently my theory is wrong...
...But I'll do no reevaluation in spite of it being shown wrong."

[mastina]

Dunn's killer probably is bp or scum have a doc or something

And speaking of the Dunnstral kill.
Either Dunnstral was directly killed, meaning scum killed someone who was opposed to the mastina lynch/supported an Almost50 lynch.
...Or Dunnstral died defending Elena, meaning scum tried to kill someone who was then-opposed to the mastina lynch/supported an Almost50 lynch.

Regardless of whether scum targeted Dunnstral or Elena, the result's the same.

Scum killed one of my fucking allies.

And you still think that I'm scum after that.

[mastina]

1. Who was that person with a claimed kill immunity again

Pink Ball--but he can't be scum if Elena is town.
And flipping Elena proves that he's town.

Did you not say your show had some kind of action elements or whatever you said? This isn't an accusation I'm just chirping her for calling Love Live anything but comedy and slice of life

I said my show was the greatest shonen action anime of all time, featuring tournaments (plural, because there's more than one Love Live! over the course of the show!) and even battles of sorts, which is all true! There's an intense focus on training, and plenty of rivalries. It really is the greatest shonen action anime of all time, and I will defend that opinion to the death.

[mastina]

(BTW mastina, should I hint at what it does? Only the people in channel 48 will get the hint)

No, keep it a secret.

If A50 made that blacklisting post as a wolf thats just awful mafia etiquette
well it's still awful mafia etiquette if he did that as town but it's true that town makes that kind of posts way more often so I kind of don't want to lynch there
My bet is Near x Mello wolf, other wolves could be Elena....Chito....idfk. I don't like to plan into the future

But the thing about that is.

Someone

has to be scum.
And Dunnstral thought it was Almost50.

Are you just going to ignore that the scum killed a low-profile player? That they killed Dunnstral who compared to big names like Reasonably Psychotic, myself, Near x Mello, Almost50, yourself, Chito & Yuuri, was essentially a non-element in the game?

Literally Dunnstral's most notable contribution to the game was his Almost50 suspicion.

And yes, the thing about Almost50's stunt is that it's awful mafia etiquette regardless of his alignment, and it's not something that I'll write off as town on the metric of "town do it more often than scum", because scum still fucking do it.

[mastina]

But lets say the scenario is Near x Mello scum, Elena town, Pink Ball town, Near x Mello mislynches Elena then kills Pink Ball. Is that really that awful for him

Pink Ball is bulletproof.

Scum

can't

kill him.

That's the value.

[mastina]

Torque idk what to say to you, the mere fact youre voting me shows youre brainless so yeah
keep defending obvscum

Wisdom I don't know what to say to you, the mere fact you're voting me shows you're brainless so yeah
Keep defending obvscum.

[mastina]

We should have had all the people target C&Y if we were trying to mechanically get conftown, that way we sacrifice one town for numerous conftown. Hell, it would have been even better because if we're confident C&Y is town, then we don't even need to lynch them, and scum can't kill them without losing mislynch options.

My plan was to target them tonight. You SHOULD be fucking JUMPING on this opportunity, Cerb.

Torque just confirmed that my power, when successful, was confirmed to him.
Meaning that when I target Chito and Yuuri tonight.
They will be able to fucking confirm I targeted them tonight.
Meaning that on D5.
I'd be conftown.

Because my action would be proven to have worked, on the claimed disloyal PGO.

You are planning to lynch someone who, come tomorrow, would be 100% conftown.

Why would you visit PB over C&Y?

Two reasons. In spite of Near x Mello's insistence otherwise, everyone in the neighborhood save for me had suspicions on Pink Ball--he was not a universal townread. Dunnstral had suspicions there; Elena had suspicions there; Torque had suspicions there.

Two, and more importantly--

I suggested Pink Ball or Joan because I can potentially confirm (or deconfirm) Elena's ability but only if she visits those two.

Torque confirming Elena visited Pink Ball would give assurance beyond any shadow of a doubt that she did what she said she did.

[mastina]

Scum shoot that one tonight

Which falls apart...
...Because Pink Ball...
...Is fucking. BULLETPROOF.
He literally claimed that shit on D1.

Why am I literally the only one who's remembering these claims?

And why is nobody listening to posts where I outright say these claims? I opened today saying Pink Ball had claimed nightkill immunity; why didn't people look into that?

[mastina]

Lynching mastina was actually the suggestion of my other head,

who hasn't even read the game in depth.

And therein lies the fucking problem.

If she had read the game in depth.

She wouldn't be fucking lynching me.

[mastina]

I believe it's A50/mastina for reasons I can go into (I should answer the case A50 made on me at one point. Given I fully expected to die I ignored it)

So you think.
That I am scum.
With the fucking person.
I was trying to fucking lynch.
And only stopped trying.
After he fucking flipped out.

You think.
That I am scum.
With the fucking person.
I am still fucking calling scum even after that.



Get real.

[mastina]

just want to see mastina flip scum so Joan has to actually play the game

Yeah well newsflash.

I'm fucking flipping town.

Because I am fucking town.

So guess what you get after my flip?

You get to fucking deal with a vidicative Joan.
Who tells you "I TOLD YOU SO".
Over.

And over.

And fucking over again.

Because she did fucking tell you so.
And she was absolutely fucking right to tell you so.
And you'll be able to do NOTHING about it.

Because she was. absolutely. RIGHT.
Nothing you can say then will ever change that.

Have fun, jackass.

[mastina]

Mastina, you don't know whether or not the person you give a tarot card to would receive a message from the mod, right?

I do not.
I claimed exactly what I know.

I have three tarot cards (because they are my true passion): Fortune, Magician, and Strength. Each night I can pass them out to a player, either upright or reversed. Upright helps my target; reverse hurts them. Each card can only be used once. The power unlocks N3; the mod literally said, "What do they do? Well you know the meanings of the cards, so you might figure them out".

It says nothing in regards to my target's knowledge.

Heck I'm actually surprised you DO know it's from my tarot card. I was expecting it to just be, "you have been given X", a generic boon message where X is the effect of the tarot card.

[mastina]

Why would I need a contingency plan?

Oh, I dunno.

...Because I'm fucking town and pretending I'm not won't magically make me scum?

[mastina]

Mastina, is there any reason to think PB and you aren't scum together, with PB having claimed BP so as to manipulate Elena Fisher into "confirming" them while someone else manipulated or otherwise interfered with Elena's action?

Elena.
Is.
FUCKING.
STRONGMAN.

Her action.
CAN'T.
Be interfered with.
Why the fuck do you think I was so insistent on letting her live otherwise?
With her action as a fucking STRONGMAN, nothing could stop it.

Also lol if you think Pink Ball-mastina interactions are EVER fucking scum-scum.

[mastina]

Mastina has been going "i dont kill people who scumread me, i kill people who townread me" since forever

Not what I said.

I said that my modus operandi is to kill players when they are wrong and not when they are right, yes--but those players are players like Ankamius and Drixx. They are players who are fucking people that I respect, and with all due respect to Dunnstral. I don't respect him in that way. He's not a threat. He's not someone who registers.

And you know what I have a VERY FUCKING LONG track record of not doing as scum?

NOT FUCKING KILLING MY ALLIES WHO SIDE WITH ME.

Literally every single scumgame of mine ever.

My kills were focused on players who weren't defending me. On players who weren't pushing the same people I were. Even if the players were townreading me but I killed them because of the threat they posed--they weren't

defending

me, they weren't

agreeing

with me. Their lack of agreement with me was half the reason they died, out of fear that their lack of agreement would turn into a scumread even when it wasn't one at that very moment.

[mastina]

Eh, I had Dunnstral as a fairly likely kill last night, right after Chito.

Chito was never being killed last night because Chito wants to lynch me and scum are going to leave the players who want that lynch alive until it fucking happens.

Dunnstral was an obvious nightkill specifically because he was someone on my side.
The second-most-likely nightkill was Joan. For much the same reasons.
I'd say the second-most-likely was Torque, except that Torque asked to be protected and there was a fair bet he'd actually receive said protection.
Soyeah.

[mastina]

Also, eh, scum clearly can kill them, right?
The strongman we saw could kill through protective actions, not passives(at least, that's how I read it, should pm the mod to confirm)...which means that unless scum was supposed to never be able to kill someone, then they likely have another way to break through bp...

Cerb.

What fucking happened.

To.

"The scumteam probably doesn't have two strongmans"?

You know.

YOUR FUCKING POST YOU MADE YESTERDAY.

[mastina]

Not a slip. Multiple scum strongmen are extremely improbable, so it's just her screwing up the role.

[mastina]

Only 100% conftown if 1) your action isn't interfered with

Which would require scum to have a second fucking roleblocker.

I asked you, dead seriously, what the odds of a second roleblocker were on the scumteam.

You didn't answer then so I repeat the question now.

Chito and Yuuri aren't killed tonight

There is a rather high chance that the powers I have contain a self-protect action.
We used the one we thought was MOST LIKELY to be a protective on Torque, sure, but that doesn't mean it WAS a protective.
Scum killing Chito and Yuuri are running an awfully large risk of my action not saving them.

Which is something worth saying:
Bring it the fuck on.

(ESPECIALLY SINCE WHOEVER KILLED DUNNSTRAL WAS CLEARLY CAPABLE OF AVOIDING DEATH TO A PGO)

You seriously think that scum's ability to avoid death is unlimited?

FUCK no. That's a gated power; they can't repeatedly use it.

3) we lynch Chito & Yuuri tomorrow, and they flip town.

Unnecessary, because simply the act of succeeding would cause the only possibilities to be
1: I am scum WITH Chito and Yuuri, or
2: We are both town.

Do we think scum is bad enough that they killed Dunnstral while using that protection, over killing Chito & Yuuri?

Hey Cerb.
Fucking newsflash.
Do you seriously.
Fucking.
Think.
That I qualify as "bad enough"?

Because for me to be fucking scum.
Killing DUNNSTRAL WHO IS MY ALLY.
Over CHITO AND YUURI WHO WANT TO FUCKING LYNCH ME.

You are suggesting EXACTLY THAT.

[mastina]

Man. I keep running into reasons to think Chito & Yuuri are scum.

I can buy mastina/Chito. Chito's insistence with lynching Gamma could be very well explained by being mastina's buddy

And herein lies the problem.

Literally everybody who is fucking suspicious of me.

Thinks that someone else who is fucking suspicious of me is my fucking scumbuddy.

People think Elena-mastina. Including last check, Almost50.
Elena thinks Almost50-mastina.
People think Chito/Yuuri-mastina.
Chito/Yuuri think ...well don't remember who precisely, maybe Elena, but SOMEONE-mastina.

They all fucking say it's me.
And someone else.
Who is also voting me.

That alone should tell the fucking story.

No one person fits as my scumbuddy.

Because I don't fucking HAVE a scumbuddy.

There is a way I interact with scumbuddies. A sort of distance with them. I don't get emotional with them, I don't really fight with them, I may bus them I may hard-defend them and I may put them somewhere between those two extremes, but there's never a fucking hostility with them. Because I can't fucking fake anger at them as scum. Not like this. Never once have I had an outburst against a scumbuddy.

And yet I'm still scum with someone allegedly. A someone that is always changing. A someone that is a neverending constant variable shifting. Because surely. Certainly. There can't be any world where I'm town, right?

[mastina]

Also lol if you think Pink Ball-mastina interactions are EVER fucking scum-scum.

Seriously.
You have absolutely no fucking right.
To EVER fucking call yourself a competent scumhunter.
EVER.

If you think.
That I am scum.
With Pink Ball.

You have absolutely no fucking right.
To EVER fucking call yourself a competent scumhunter.
EVER.

If you think.
That I am scum.
With Almost50.

You have absolutely no fucking right.
To EVER fucking call yourself a competent scumhunter.
EVER.

If you think.
That I am scum.
With Near x Mello.

You have absolutely no fucking right.
To EVER fucking call yourself a competent scumhunter.
EVER.

If you think.
That I am scum.
With Elena.

You have absolutely no fucking right.
To EVER fucking call yourself a competent scumhunter.
EVER.

If you think.
That I am scum.
With Chito and Yuuri.

You have absolutely no fucking right.
To EVER fucking call yourself a competent scumhunter.
EVER.

If you think.
That I am scum.
With Reasonably Psychotic.

Pretty much literally the ONLY fucking person you could call my scumbuddy and not have your competency license revoked is with Joan, because she's literally the only person who fits my scumbuddy interactions. She went from a scumread I pushed to a townread where she's stayed the whole time and I've been nothing but respectful of her the entire game--literally the hallmark of how I treat my scumbuddies.

And even then it's stupendously obvious she's not my scumbuddy. She's just the only person you can really accuse of being my scumbuddy without it being a total fucking proof of your failure.

[mastina]

Why calling me names?

BECAUSE YOU FUCVKING DESERVE NO FUCKING LESS THAT THAT YOUR ASS

I,
AM.
FUCKING.
TOWN.

I SHOULD NOT be lynched here.

Not in any fycking woruld.

[mastina]

mastina, you don't matter that much. Trust me.

You can't fucking believe that I don't matter and simultaneously push the idea that I'm fucking scum. The two are mutually exclusive ideas. And yes I do fucking matter, because I am the only power player who is scumreading Almost50 still, in spite of YOU HAVING LAID OUT A DAMN FUCKING GOOD REASON HE SHOULD BE SCUM.

With me being scumread by everyone.
You literally CAN'T say I don't fucking matter, either.

[mastina]

if you respect mastina's skills you should realize shes scum @joan

This is well fucking outside of my scumrange and EVERYONE here should fucking know it.

There are things I literally can't fucking fake as scum.

Like literally even in games where I break every fucking towntell I typically have.

There's not a way for me to fake them.

Because some things.

I just can't fucking do.
As scum.

As scum.
When I fucking know people are right about me being scum.
The closest I can fucking manage is ranting about them being right for the wrong reasons under the pretense that they're wrong for the wrong reasons.

But there's not a fucking away.

For me to fucking fake.
This level of play.

I can do anything as scum, I say.
I can do almost anything, I preach.
But I can't fucking ACTUALLY do LITERALLY anything.
There are some fucking things.

That are literally fucking impossible.
For me to fake.

[mastina]

Chito pushed gamma over you with a passion
And today? Not a word about you being scum

And yet.
They are among the slots you're relying on to lynch me.

5 to lynch today. Even with stupidity from joan and torque there is zero excuse for mastina to survive today. Me, almost, Chito, Pink ball, and Cerb should be enough.

My my whyever would you be relying on them to fucking lynch me if they were my fucking scumbuddy.

[mastina]

Nope youre well within your scum range.

Oh really.

Fucking prove it.

Name a single fucking game.

Where I am even fucking REMOTELY.

EVEN FUCKING A SINGLE FUCKING IOTA.

Even fucking a LITTLE FUCKING BIT.

Like this fucking game.

I'll fucking wait.

Because you know what you'll find?

JACKSHIT.

Because this is not my fucking scumplay.

You know what play this IS?

This is fucking Tales of You 2.0.

[mastina]

And the worse fucking part of this all.
Is that scum fucking know why I shouldn't be lynched this game ever.
They fucking know why I should by all rights be conftown.

But they are all too happy to take advantage of town fucking incompetence.

[mastina]

And the worse fucking part of this all.
Is that scum fucking know why I shouldn't be lynched this game ever.
They fucking know why I should by all rights be conftown.

But they are all too happy to take advantage of town fucking incompetence.

And literally.
Every fucking thing I've done.
Since SuperfluousNinja's modkill.
Can be traced back to this exact fucking fact.

[mastina]

@Mastina: Scum roleblockers x2: Unlikely,

THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU PLANNING ON FUCKING VOTING ME WHEN MY N2 POWER IS A FUCKING ROLEBLOCKER.

[mastina]

Like.
Cerb loses towncred by the fucking minute.

Because he absolutely.
Should.
Fucking.
Know.
Better.

Than this shit.

At every fucking step of the way.

He should fucking know me.
He fucking knows how I play and he fucking knows that this isn't how I play as scum.
He fucking knows that I don't get this fucking upset as scum.
He fucking knows that there's a real fucking chance of me being proven conftown--one he should be fucking leaping at.
He fucking knows that I'm not the one who was immune to the nightkill because Nozomi Tojo has no such flavor for abilities and I am basically proven to be Nozomi Tojo through my power to Torque.
He fucking knows that I don't have viable scumbuddies. Fuck hunting for a team, he should fucking know that alone makes me town.
He fucking knows that Chito and Yuuri don't REALLY fit as scumbuddies and that the suspicion there in a game that's been open for less than 24 hours is absolute shit given that it is based basically entirely on said fucking 24 hours ignoring what came prior.

[mastina]

You're attempting to claim that actions scum have taken vindicate you; I say they don't, because in the world where you are not scum, you do not matter(in the way you're implying you matter), and thus those points do nothing to make it more likely that you are town.

And what if I fucking said.
That actions scum have taken absolutely DO fucking vindicate me, and it is BECAUSE of those fucking actions that I fucking matter?

[mastina]

Nope youre well within your scum range.

Oh really.

Fucking prove it.

Name a single fucking game.

Where I am even fucking REMOTELY.

EVEN FUCKING A SINGLE FUCKING IOTA.

Even fucking a LITTLE FUCKING BIT.

Like this fucking game.

I'll fucking wait.

Because you know what you'll find?

JACKSHIT.

Because this is not my fucking scumplay.

You know what play this IS?

This is fucking Tales of You 2.0.

And the thing about this is.
As scum.
I can fake individual aspects of my towngame.

As scum, I can actually show SIGNIFICANT swathes of it--enough to fool most people into generally believing it's me as town. Making moves that appear as town.

But in spite of my fucking competence as scum.

In spite of how fucking good I am as scum.

I can't make an absolute literally flawless recreation of EVERY aspect of my towngame.
I can't fucking replicate everything.
I can hit many of the right notes. Heck, I broke records in team mafia for hitting all the notes of my towngame, but even then I didn't have literally EVERYTHING there.
In part because part of my towngame is hitting notes of my scumgame, and in that game, I avoided hitting those notes deliberately. (In other words as town I have aspects of my scumgame; lacking aspects of my scumgame is thus, ironically, a scumtell and I fully admit that was the case for team mafia which was all the towngame aspects with none of the scumgame aspects. I kinda sorta lowkey suspect in fact, that this is Ellibereth's tell on me. Because as scum I make a conscientious effort to avoid my scumtells which is absent from my towngame where I don't give a fuck if I'm hitting notes of my scumgame.)

But this fucking game.

Over the course of the entirety of the game.

Has hit.
Literally.
Every.
Fucking.
Townpoint.

[mastina]

How limited was your roleblocker? Only women, right?

Only women and once I target a player with it, I can never again target that same player with it.

Mind you, you'll recall, Vedith's roleblocker had an almost identical restriction of only women.

I seem to remember you said you targeted Toog?

Correct. Because I wanted to fucking kill him.

[mastina]

There's no justification, I've been respectful to you

There's no fucking world where people being respectful of me at this point think I'm scum.

your D1 play on me was untasteful.

I had good fucking reasons which I communicated to my neighborhood.

You want the original PM?

It's basically this:

Spoiler: Original PM

(PT Quote Removed)
The reason for this, more or less, is

because

I have doubts on my scumread.

Severe doubts--more than I've let on.

A LOT more than I've let on.

If 50% were dead null, 51% slight scum, then with Vedith as the hallmark at 50% (and all players not-Vedith thus being lower, e.g. Gamma in the like 45ish% range), Pink Ball's 52.5%.

Almost dead null, doubts.

The reason for the strong push is because strong pushes help me sort players better than any other method.

I, genuinely, feel every point I've raised about Pink Ball is valid. I am not stretching. Looking at my points as objectively as I can, each and every one of them feels like they are objectively valid, that they are objectively good points to raise.

But just because a point is good, does not mean the point is

right

.

Yet my ability to tell if a good point is right or not is under-developed. I need to push the point, expose it to others to see, and get feedback, input on it. In other words, you can think of my push as a gigantic form of a reaction test--off of how others (and Pink Ball) respond to the issue, I'm hoping to get better grounding on whether I am genuinely onto something or if I made a good point that happened to be wrong.

The more I see, the more I think the latter, but while we're at the pivotal point, I haven't seen enough to push it over the edge yet; we're at the critical stage, the most important part, where the fight has basically climaxed. And from

that

, I am hoping to get an accurate read.

More than that, too.

I am also hoping to have a candidate to replace Pink Ball, ideally. If Pink Ball is, genuinely, not scum...

someone

else probably is. I don't know who it'd be. It's okay for me to not know, but I vastly prefer to know, obv.

I wouldn't push Pink Ball if I didn't hold suspicion on him, even lacking a replacement to push. But I'm still not sure. I'm at the doubting stage, but not a reversal yet. Because I can't tell if his emotional outburst is "right for the wrong reasons" or borderline insanity at just the level of wrongness. Not yet, anyway. It's getting there. I'll be able to tell within 48 hours, I feel, thread conditions allowing.

I do want this in my neighborhood ASAP, but I can't afford the chance of it leaking out since there's at least a 35% chance my neighborhood has a scum member who could report it to the scumteam, and at least an 80% chance the scumteam has a member on it that could use this knowledge to nullify my intentions without alerting me to this fact.

Stop doing it.

I'll fucking stop when people stop trying to fucking lynch me.

[mastina]

Mastina, have you ever known me to actually lynch someone without properly gauging the situation and coming to a conclusion that they're strongly probable to be scum by my standards?

You've made it clear that you intend to vote me.

You've also made it clear you're not going to properly reign in Amzela, who will vote me even if you do not.

The only way she wouldn't is if you convinced her not to. Not saying, "don't vote her yet", but actually gave convincing arguments for why not to.

And you won't do that when you intend to vote me.

[mastina]

mastina, one more fucking time: don't call me names. I don't care what's going on in the game, fuck off

The only names I've called you are variants of ass and I won't apologize for those when voting me is exactly that.

You're conftown, and going down the road of voting me is nothing less.

[mastina]

so mastina sees that shes in actual danger today and has put forth her big ate weapons

Yes.

Name a single fucking time I've done that as scum.

I can list dozens of fucking times I've done it as town. Not once as scum.

[mastina]

so mastina sees that shes in actual danger today and has put forth her big ate weapons

Yes.

Name a single fucking time I've done that as scum.

I can list dozens of fucking times I've done it as town. Not once as scum.

(Mind you, this is no trust tell because it's no deliberate thing. It's not that I deliberately get angry as town and deliberately don't get angry as scum.
It's that I literally can't fucking get angry as scum--not like this, anyway--and I literally can't fucking hold back from fuming as town when I have every fucking right to be pissed.)

[mastina]

Also, mastina: Why do you think you're the only one who'll be able to be "conftown'd" by C&Y? What makes you special there?

Because my action is fucking confirmable.
Others' actions aren't.
Anyone who DOES have a confirmable action would themselves be conftowned by targeting Chito and Yuuri; never said it was exclusive to me.

But my action leaves proof.

[mastina]

mastina, who's A50's partner?

It's

possible

to be Elena, but as previously discussed, I don't think so.
It's more likely to be Near x Mello, who have spent the whole game insisting Almost50 is town, and who Almost50 has shown no suspicion of.

Near x Mello's hop-on to the Vedith wagon was a textbook bus; they didn't have suspicion there prior to then.
Near x Mello and Robert did show suspicion of one another, but push come to shove, on D3 when SuperfluousNinja was an actual lynch candidate, they

defended

the slot.
I'd have to check on D2 to see their relationship to the ooba wagon.

Near x Mello's play this game has always been somewhat sketchy, more or less.

If this weren't a game won by POE, though, I admit I probably wouldn't be calling them scum.

The thing about it is, though.
You're conftown.
Torque is as town as town gets.
Chito and Yuuri are also town.
Joan is town.
I am town.
That's 5/9 slots right then and there.

Leaving {Almost50, Near x Mello, Elena, Reasonably Psychotic}.
I thought that SuperfluousNinja's push on Reasonably Psychotic made them town. I'm reconsidering that, but right now I still think more town than not. Reasonably Psychotic also has some strange interactions with Almost50 but it's hard to parse if those are scumbuddy interactions or anti-scumbuddy interactions; I'd need to research more to determine which.

The question to ask isn't who the scumteam is; it's who the town are.
And then, after identifying who the town are.
From the remaining candidates.
Identifying which teams work and which teams don't.
Almost50-Elena is unlikely, but not altogether impossible. (Which is one of the reasons I support the Elena lynch; it's not impossible for her to be scum. I don't think she is, but that was the same stance I held on Vedith, sooooo.)
Almost50-Near/Mello is incredibly plausible and maybe outright probable.
Almost50-Reasonably Psychotic is a team that I need to investigate more to determine (in)viability of.

[mastina]

Do you think that anyone who has a confirmable action should be targeting C&Y?

At this point, yes.
Elena last night had a valid reason not to, but by my understanding her action was 1x, so can't be used again tonight.
But anyone else with a confirmable action should in fact be targeting Chito and Yuuri.

Do you think that if someone else who has a confirmable action were to target C&Y today, we should lynch C&Y to make that other individual conftown?

No.
Lynching a player just to make another player conftown isn't a strategy I endorse.

An Elena lynch conftowns Pink Ball, yes, but critically, that is

not

the only reason I have for lynching Elena. She is in the POE pool (Chito and Yuuri are not); she is widely scumread (until SOMEONE decided to propose the idea today, Chito and Yuuri were not); she has an established interaction her flip would disprove (until SOMEONE decided to propose the idea today, Chito and Yuuri lacked this); she has a role that is already expended and fully worthless (Chito and Yuuri's role never becomes worthless); she is someone who would never be nightkilled (Chito and Yuuri COULD be nightkilled albeit unlikely).

[mastina]

ooba(5)

~ Dunnstral, Spike and Jet, Elena Fisher, Clemency, Gamma Emerald

ooba(4)

~ Dunnstral(4), Spike and Jet(37), Elena Fisher(12), Toogeloo(29)

Spike and Jet(5)

~ Severa(262), singletonking(45), Ankamius(150), Dunnstral(53), Gamma Emerald(88)

ooba(4)

~ Elena Fisher(12), Toogeloo(29), Spike and Jet(104), Near x Mello(260)

Creature

(9)

~ Severa(262), singletonking(45), Ankamius(149), Dunnstral(53), Gamma Emerald(51), Near x Mello(266), Pink Ball(34), Elena Fisher(30), Joan of Arc(100)

--

HAMMER

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Reasonably Psychotic(25), Chito and Yuuri(37), Torque(30)

ooba(2)

~ Creature(104), Toogeloo(31)

Severa(1)

~ mastina(25)
Not Voting (2): Almost50(88), ooba(2)

So the answer to "how did Near x Mello treat the SuperfluousNinja slot D2" is...

"Much the same as they treated the slot on D3"--they did technically vote for the slot at one point...but did not stay on that wagon. And WHEN they voted on the wagon, the Spike/Jet wagon was larger; their vote didn't put ooba at risk of being lynched. They avoided voting ooba when ooba was the dominant wagon.

And in fact.
Were on the wagon opposite of ooba, Flavor Leaf.

So for a slot that accuses my interactions of allegedly being "distancing without bussing".
They sure as fuck seem to have interactions that fit as being "distancing without bussing".

[mastina]

Solve RP for me?

Sure when I get home from tae kwon do.

As is I risk being late because what was meant to be a quick fucking catch-up on this game.
What was meant to be a side-note from me doing OTHER THINGS THAT ARE CURRENTLY ENTIRELY LEFT UNDONE (I have a lot of mafiascum stuff that I was intending to do but this fucking game took that away and there are some people who're going to be mighty disappointed in me prioritizing here over them).

Took all my fucking spare time,

and then some

.

[mastina]

@mastina: don't waste your time solving me.

I'll trust that.
Mostly because I want to trust it, admittedly, and partially because I honestly didn't want to spend that time on it (was willing to, was going to, but didn't

want

to), so not the best reasons for trusting it, but sure.
I'll trust it all the same.
I know I objectively shouldn't, but fuck it, I'll trust it anyway.

[mastina]

i dunno why people aren't pushing in that direction at all

One reason: Because I didn't think that'd be a battle I'd succeed at.

I pick and choose my battles; fighting Near x Mello when most of my allies there are dead was something that I thought impossible.

The second reason: because Near x Mello's only a poe scumread. I'm less optimistic about them flipping scum than I was Gamma. And even Gamma was only an 80% scum read. Near x Mello are around 66% a scumread. (Almost50 sits at 99.99%; Elena sits at around like...40%ish or so.)

I'd vote there, but I wouldn't be happy voting there.

[mastina]

Thats still not a clear in any way, especially if she had locked herself into doing so.

Yeah but the thing you miss is that scumastina could...oh I dunno.
Just.
Yaknow.
Not lock herself into doing so.

In fact I have a track record of doing precisely that; I outlined that exact philosophy in RC's UPick where I said that me being the one in control of my action, I had the control over whether I pulled the trigger, and if so, on whom; it was my choice to pull the trigger, sure, but I didn't

need

to.

Just like she had said she would vote vedith but padded until it was inevitable.

Yeah you can repeat that lie as much as you'd like.
It doesn't make it any more true.
I said I'd vote Vedith when there were less than 48 hours until deadline--that was my promise.
I voted Vedith when there were less than 48 hours until deadline--what I fucking promised to do.

You can say that I 'padded until it was inevitable' all you like; that doesn't make the lie any more true. Because I did exactly what I fucking said I would. Not what you are pretending I did.

[mastina]

She'll do whatever to keep her remaining allies

Oh damn fucking straight I will.

So bombdrop time.

Dunnstral was my ally;

why the FUCK would scumastina kill him?!?

The idea that I'll do whatever I can to keep my remaining allies.
And the idea that I nightkilled Dunnstral.
Who was one of my fucking remaining allies.

Are mutually exclusive.

Pick one, or explain how the fuck those two mutually exclusive ideas could possibly coexist. (They can't.)

[mastina]

Question for the group. Is Mastina always this animated/angry/emotional?

No but yes, yes but no, depends on your definition.
I am never this animated/angry/emotional as scum.
I am

usually

not this animated/angry/emotional as town, either--but that's the only alignment I have been animated/angry/emotional, because it's the only alignment which I can get ticked off as.

And this game I have good fucking reason to be pissed.

[mastina]

Dunnstral was my ally; why the FUCK would scumastina kill him?!?

By this logic I should be the most obv town in the game. However, it doesn't work that way

The logic is mastina specific.

*I* would want to keep my allies around.

The Dunnstral kill is definitive proof the scum aren't keeping mastina allies around.

Same doesn't apply for you.

[mastina]

mastina could I ask you a favour? Could you cold your scum persona as scumstina instead of scumastina? It hurts my brain, and scumstina sounds cooler

No, scumstina sounds lame.

If you're pronouncing it 'scum mastina', you're pronouncing scumastina wrong. It's either scu-mastina, or scum-astina. Because it's a portmanteu of scum and mastina. scumstina's not really a proper portmanteu, now, is it? The blend between the words is at the m, and you're cutting a letter AFTER the m; that just makes no sense to do at all.

[mastina]

(It helps if you know my username's pronunciations. The s can go either with the ma or the tin; it's always three syllables; the first a never changes pronunciation as the a sound which rhymes with bad, sad, at, fat, etc.; the i can be either 'ee' like free, see, OR ih, like it, sit; the last a is the two variants on 'uh', like duh, luck, fun.
So, two places the s can be; two pronunciations for the i; two pronunciations for the second a; that's about six different pronunciations that're valid, but when you say my name rapidly enough--which I always do--it blends together. It's only when I slow it down, for instance, that I can tell where the s is, because when I'm saying my name at normal speed, the s is done rapidly enough that the two syllables seem equally distanced from the s/equally close to it. Similarly, the ih/ee for the i would be most accurately described as being actually right between the two, and the two versions of 'uh' for the final a are almost identical anyway to the point I don't even know how to type out how to differentiate between them.)

[mastina]

(Incidentally, if you trace my name back to its original portmanteu, master of the internet, you can get how it came to be its current pronunciation. Mast-in, but with the same blended s, making it equally valid as Mas-tin. The introduction of the a shifted the pronunciation of the i, but the rest stayed the same. Notably, before I was scumastina, I was scumastin, or even scuMastin.)

[mastina]

Shouldn't A50 be prodded by this time?

Yes let's lynch the lurking scum!

[mastina]

(That's my way of saying as much as I would

love

to take advantage of that opening, because yes he's a scumfuck, I can't. Having had a game where as scum I couldn't speak I understand the infuriating nature of being lynched for 'lurking' when you literally can't fucking post, so.)

[mastina]

Also you people are

really

bad at remembering the details of other peoples' claims.

I swear it's like you guys have some sort of short-term memory loss in regards to these things.

I'm forgetful.

I forget a fuckload of shit.

And yet this game I'm the one reminding y'all of these things.

I suppose that short-term memory loss

would

explain why people want to lynch the people they do, though...

[mastina]

And oh hey while I'm here can I just say that this is literally one of only a handful of games where I've broken to the third page of an iso? Might be count-on-one-hand, amount? Even if not, certainly less than two hands.