Newbie 1941 - Game over

[teacher]

Yea, I’m mobile Posting so not going to answer the Questions.

The only player I’m familiar With on this list is emps. I think He is town. So VOTE: emps

I’m Just Kidding - I have a tendency to RvS the players On the list I’m familiar with, but Already have a lean there.

I don’t like the wagonomics Schlick because I think It distracts from Hunting. I am Confident without meta that it is NAI. I’m not going to be Playing however.

UNVOTE: til I get a chance to actually read the pages I slept through.

[teacher]

Oh and another 4 SE game.

Thats... not fun?

It’s to start newb games as Rapidly as possible. Don’t treat SEs any differently. Like you Already have a lot of the theory down, which is our Primary purpose- to model how experienced players would play and read. We also should help with Coding and other issues. Speaking of, I would still love for you to get an avi so I can Mobile recognize your posts.

Also apologies In advance for the random typos and stuff I inject from mobile (eg schlick instead of schtick)- fat Fingers “ittle screen.

[teacher]

PEdit : Post Edit

Exactly how it sou

I actually believe it means preview edit - for additions made to the post on the preview screen, when the system Informs you that New posts have been made since you Started typin.

[teacher]

Your name is emps. Want me to size a pic from “the empires new groove” or an Emperor penfuin?

[teacher]

did you remember to tell the mod your on v/la

You don’t need to tell the mod if it’s in your user control panel. Emps is in There - it’s why vLa appears in Both his Posts and in the Activity level link on bottom. That link is what Most mods use for prods and such.

[teacher]

On my main account I am known for meta-ing people but I basically don't do that on "Wagonomics" since this is more my laid back/fun account, and it's useless in newbie queue games anyway.

Not asking you to mainslip, but have We played together before? And do you have Other alts?

[teacher]

I don't like Emps' posts very much, my vote is serious.

Show work/explain.

[teacher]

Uh both sound hilarious so... hell yeah!

Will do when on desktop tonight.

[teacher]

Sorry, I realized after the Fact that two of my ketchup posts had Already been explained/answered.

Alright I’m up to speed. Very soft leans from a speed Read:
Town: emps, Cyrus
Scum: NaCl

[teacher]

I don't like Emps' posts very much, my vote is serious.

Show work/explain.

First thing that jumped out to me was the comment on so many SE's. I thought it was nervous scum with another newbie partner, but upon rereading I'm not so sure.

Aside from that, he posts a lot but I don't find it to be helpful. This is after the initial accusation, but 120 is particularly useless. And the questions aren't something I think is useful for discussion, or at least I don't see anything I'd really care to ask about in it.

Response to NACL's explanation.

Spoiler:

I think this is mostly playstyle, not alignment. Some are intimated by SEs because we can "hide better" or "town lead". But really we are basically you with some more games. I think its a mistake to focus on the letters rather than the player.

Fluffs are fluffs. Sometimes its important to keep the room active, plus I think emps has some OCD/addiction issues with websites generally.

I ask the questions myself in most games. I personally think they contain some scumhunting gold. But every game I ask them, someone scumreads me ofr asking.

Response to Hays' question:

Spoiler:

I dont see scum motive for a push on a loud player at this time, plus there was reasoning that felt legitimate. Still not crazy about the slot, but WAY within rand still.

SE aside - *Rand - expression used to express confidence in reads. Like every player in a game is 78% likely to be town (75 if counting town!yourself). Thus if I think someone is 50/50, thats actually a scumread +25% above rand.

[teacher]

Have some questions for everyone

1. What kind of experience do you have with Mafia?

2. How did you find out/get into MafiaScum?

3. How do you scumread people?

4. How do you townread people?

5. How do you play as town?

6. How do you play as scum?

1. 20ish games.
2. Followed someone from another hobbysite (WebDip)
3. Tone, motive, associations.
4. Tone, motive, consistency of thought process.
5/6. The same.

Stealing from my own version of the answers: 4. I use tone more than I used to. I also motivations, probabilities, and associations. For each post, I try to ascertain the motive behind it. Does it seem town-motivated or scum-motivated. To be sure, both town and scum have similar objectives, but they arent overlapping. Town is not as afraid of being lynched, because there will be a mislynch at some point; scum knows that their death is 50% of a loss. Town wants to out real analysis to advance the game; scum wants to repeat information that everybody knows so they can appear to be helping without actually doing it. Another key area of difference is in probabilities. Here, I cant say it much better than a strategy article from the Wiki (link). I'll speak more on associations tomorrow if Im still kicking.

[teacher]

Oh yeah, also what are everyones timezones/regular posting hours?

NY timezone, most serious posts will come btw 9pm and 1am, but I mobile skim and sometimes have fun during the day

[teacher]

I personally do not want anymore votes on his wagon

Challenge accepted.

VOTE: Cyrus.

That’s L-1.

Now time to ketchup again.

[teacher]

Because I’ve been skimming on mobile and reading it all. But now I actually want to think about it, and that seemed like a good way to announce my presence.

Wagonomics definitely is a better graphic hookup than me.

[teacher]

My vote was because there is no harm to getting to L-1 and it would create a reaction while I read through. I didn’t see why you are so leery of it. Like the worst that could happen is someone lolhammering, and that’s not that terrible given the facts it spews.

Pedit: yea, emps. But it’s common courtesy to let directed questions lie because the questioner may be looking for something specifically out of the target that they don’t want you to varnish. If you’re going to answer a question directed at someone else, at least ask permission first.

[teacher]

Oh wow. That is just terrible play that we should chat about after the game. But go ahead now since youve basically softed it harder than I have ever seen.

[teacher]

Because at this point its basically out there that he is softing PR. Thats a scum move. Scum already has that info. So might as well kick the tires and test if its true. I mean 379 is just.....

[teacher]

OK, so let me talk some strategy here in general:

It is always worth it to trade a PR for a scum. But not necessarily on D-1. If he claims, do not immediately counterclaim. Assess whether it would be better to save it for D-2, so that there is one night where scum is unaware of your identity (and early D-2, the false claimant would have to put out some additional associational data, regardless whether claiming investigative or protective).

Im not saying its wrong to counterclaim. But I am saying that there would be steps to think through.

[teacher]

PEdit: Or that... SMH.

[teacher]

UNVOTE:

[teacher]

Cyrus, why do you keep saying youre dead now?

[teacher]

It is actually semi-logical from the personality I am seeing from Cyrus. If he is town, then had the post been left floating, he would have been a good NK candidate. But I dont see why he keeps saying hes dead after pulling it back.

Yea, town never fake claims, at least not without knowing when and where to do it. (I can link a good example of doing it if you want, but it requires deftness to ensure it doesnt just result in outing the real PR AND getting a town lynch.......)

PEDIT: No they dont think that after you retreat to VT. Instead, Im left questioning the WIFOM of softing PR and then claiming VT.

[teacher]

It can be both scum and town motivated. ITs not pure NAI, but it can cut both ways.

Scum softs PR to try to deflate the wagon, but retreats to VT because they would be countered when pressed to hardclaim.
Town softs PR to attract the NK when they think thats the most they can contribute.

[teacher]

lets move on.

[teacher]

I believe L-2 since I unvoted and Holden is back on, but am not sure any longer.

[teacher]

e have 400+ posts, how can you not have a single read

Possibly because 50% of them are from one slot. I know this is personality/playstyle for you but it results in the game being more difficult to read for most towns, so it is play that helps scum. I say that as an objective fact, not because I believe it is motivated for you (I think you would play this way as any alignment). You should consider that for future games generally.

[teacher]

Cyrus - where are you from? Is English your first language? What do you do in life (for work/school)?

[teacher]

RedFlavor you seem really underwhelming so far. Is it because I'm not DVa this time or what's up? Even for being overgamed you seem not-town-Nako-y

Since I trust your meta reads when youre not trying to abuse it, can you share Nako-y meta?

[teacher]

time to teach you guys the newb!scum meta i guess

its when they greet someone.
like for some reason it seriously works.

Not exactly. Its when they greet the thread as a whole -- "Hi everybody!" or (as NaCl did) "hello everyone, welcome to day 1!". Over the course of appr. 50 Newb games, greeting the thread was statistically more likely to come from scum. While I still use this, it has somewhat jumped the shark as it has been extensively discussed in like the last 15 newb games straight and so tends to be something discussed/warned against in some scum threads.

[teacher]

Taking my bet from Kanifee scum and re-investing them into Jackal scum

Concur. Was doing an ISO readslist and just not impressed. Def in my PoE (with Kaniffee).

How do you feel about Cyrus? Holden?

Im feeling Red and Emps for town so far. Im leaning that way on you and NaCl. Im v. conflicted about the two I asked you about.

[teacher]

Post-post Edit: Thanks, and liking that we shared Kaniffee (I had typed that while you entered yours, but was clicking back to my notes).

[teacher]

honest queston not a slip .. theres a place to learn how to be scum?

Unfortunately not really, what he meant is that if it happens to be a newbie scum + SE scum, then the SE scum will usually warn the newbie scum to avoid certain things in the PT.

One of the unfortunate things with the pace of newbie games is it means many newbies start playing in main queue without ever having rolled scum or having worked on their scum game. Not a lot of elegant ways of dealing with that problem though.

Eh, I disagree. But Im not sharing now. Ask this after the game and I will share a few things I have seen and thought were strong.

[teacher]

VOTE: Kaniffee since Im not joining this bread bubble market.

[teacher]

@Wagonomics, so Im taking it you disagree on Red? Like for Cyrus and Holden you provided reasons you liked them... Im trying to figure out what 3 you dont like.

[teacher]

*insert boon's avatar and/or cow pokemon here*

FYI for newbs, these are two players known to lolhammer for the lulz. In games with certain players, you have to treat L-2 as L-1, and state intent to L-1. That should not occur in the newb-queue however.

[teacher]

i honestly dont think reds scum i was just teaseing him to get him to talk

Can you give reads AND REASONS on players. Like saying "dont think X is scum" is either a great way to null the board or indicate a townlean or simply be vague. And tbh I dont care a jot for anybodys reads. I like reasoning.

[teacher]

Claim intent or dont claim intent/defend. Dont just stand there wringing your hands doing nothing either way.

[teacher]

The game feels a bit stale to be honest. The no movement in vc comment hit it.

It is objectively too early for a lynch. There are a few slots who I haven’t even started to sort.

@emps if you’re going to unvote with an intent, why not do it now and note your willingness to go back.

@kaniffee is there any time we can jive today - in the next six hours or so? I want to talk w you about reads and see what questions you have as someone totally new. My vote was intended to get more out of you but I haven’t really seen it yet.

[teacher]

Parking a vote is voting early without strong reasons then not really moving as the game develops. TBH I dont think the game has developed that much, so am not sure anyone is parked.

I can grok what Red is saying on Cyrus -- that it is wrong and nonsensical, but genuine and hence town. TBH, though I share the read, its not a terrible lynch. Sometimes, town has to get rid of town!obstacles, and I view the nonsense/illogic as part of what is preventing the game from going forward. For now, though, I plan on ISOing a couple slots and rereading yesterday's play and then pushing a case on not!Cyrus.

[teacher]

644 was @ 639. Im slow when hacking stuff out on phone, though I think i fixed the broken shift key.

[teacher]

What does not!Cyrus mean?

slot that is not Cyrus (thought it was obvious)

[teacher]

Other tutorial guy says the opposite. Definitely PR hunt as town. Just dont do it openly/in thread.

What I mean is if you have a strong feeling on a PR, you should actually move them down in your readslists/positioning to be nullish to make them not eat the night kill. But you should not give your views in thread because it helps educate scum.

[teacher]

Eh, on my read through, Jackal was the one I would likely pressure.

Holden, can you give some board reads I can jive off of?

[teacher]

Yea, it was just to get you live and interacting. Like I felt that you were intimidated by the game length and some of the language and so hesistant of getting in. If its just thinking through things, thats fair enough, but then you have to get in and post the thoughts at some point. Like now -- can you provide the two slots you have strongest thoughts about, or two posts you had strong reactions to?

Quote lists/links:
Quotes - use the link in the top right of the post you want to quote. You can either quote the entire post (just click) or snip out the part you want (highlight then click)
links:

Code: Select all

[url=*WEBSITE*]word you want for link[/url]

[teacher]

Sorry, actually your catchup last night just didnt stick out in my head. I appreciate you sharing on Cyrus. Im actually pretty ok with what you did there.

Van you talk about Holden and why he is above Emps

[teacher]

Fair enough. Thanks ofr humoring me and osrry it was unnecessary after all. I have to dial back in a bit, but thats likely going to be tomorrow/after soccer. Have a good day.

[teacher]

I had a weak TL there. Its disappearing with the inactivity. It was mostly for melding with his reads and analysis on other slots. Reads=/alignment, but I could see where they were coming from.

[teacher]

Anyone know the count? I kind want to give intent on Cyrus. A couple more recent posts pinged me and I think it is a game advancing lynch regardless.

[teacher]

Ieh I talked myself back down. To early in the day and can sort jackals replacement. Cyrus is the lynch tho.

Emps and Holden are town.

I lean that way on Laniffee - that was independent thought they brought out on me and I don’t think newb wants me to paint a target on them when they couldn’t predict my reaction.

I actually lean on Red too- I can from what he is saying about Cyrus but the fact that Cyrus continued with his bullshit is enough for me to say that he is either scum or a town liability.

[teacher]

Yea.

[teacher]

“Can from” = can grok

[teacher]

Can you all either lynch me or quote whatever new content Cyrus put I. That or lynch him so it never has to be found. Any of the above work for me without preference. Please and thank you. Happy fourth.

[teacher]

feeling really uneasy about the fact that things have slowed to a halt, and I think that it's a case of scum not being on the Cyrus vote and being worried about getting on.

If Cyrus is town, scum was absolutely already on when it was L-1.

[teacher]

ok wagon can yo do a better iso 264 post is hard to handel

This is epic pot calling kettle.

[teacher]

Doubt teacher is scum, probs just VLA thingies.

Yea I’m traveling solo w my kids to visit my family this week. I will be a bit more absentee.

given the length for the replacement search, can we freeze deadline

[teacher]

Taking my bet from Kanifee scum and re-investing them into Jackal scum

Concur. Was doing an ISO readslist and just not impressed. Def in my PoE (with Kaniffee).

How do you feel about Cyrus? Holden?

Im feeling Red and Emps for town so far. Im leaning that way on you and NaCl. Im v. conflicted about the two I asked you about.

What did I do townish until that point

I like what you did with Cyrus and Emps (more the latter). As of that point, I agreed. You also didnt seem invested in making a charisma presence. You reacted to Wagon's towncore without trying to break it up, even though you werent in it/were in the PoE.

[teacher]

I hate it how teacher is wanting to lynch cyrus so bad even though cyrus is so obvtown and I hate it how he calls cyrus liability when there are people impossible to read becuse of low post counts like jackal or kaniffe.

I wouldnt say so bad. But maybe frustration at illogic/posts I simply couldnt understand got the better of me.

And I think this is an important lesson to impart in the newb!queue because it was a thought process that was foreign to me when I started, but makes alot of sense after TChill broke it down for me. There is town, and then town liabilities -- the people whose posts dont make sense and that you have to functionally ignore. If they are demonstrably town, then fine. But if they are perhaps baiting PRs and otherwise distracting the hunt/being totally incomprehensible, get rid of it. That is a slot you dont want to have left at Lylo, when you have to reevaulate everything and trust the remaining slots (if not you) to apply, well, logic. Instead of playing the game only to lynch scum, add a second objective of setting up the lylo situation that is most optimal for town.

[teacher]

I’m he’s town on me and you’re at null without having done any casing. Why would he follow you to me exactly?

Also, yes, inactive players are not ideal for lylo either and would fall into the same category. But With Cyrus there was also the advantage of me likening their wagon, so a townflip would cause revaluation.

[teacher]

NaCl is town. You’re right that I didn’t catch Jackals slot was there. If that is at L-2 I’ll up it.

[teacher]

Yup.

VOTE: Jackal

[teacher]

Well you've made some good points on Teacher these last couple pages

What point did he make? Serious question. I never saw one other than the Cyrus thing.

[teacher]

And then there's Cyrus

What does this actually mean?

[teacher]

@emps @cyrus @holden @wagon
What do you think about lynching Ico

Why are you creating counters to Cyrus? What gives you the degree of confidence in that slot?

[teacher]

Right but like walk through it. My issue is I thought that, but then realized that I think they would play this style as any alignment. It’s almost like a serial killer/soloball. I don’t think it’s scum but I don’t see how you can have the degree of confidence you are displaying in what reads to me as a very unstable slot regardless alignment.

[teacher]

I think the Cyrus joke is forced.

I also don’t really feel like he scumreads me. He had me in the bull category of his readslist and then voted me - I guess to better sort me. The NaCl read is what is giving me the scummiest pings because that is a slot that has progressively more towntold and is entering my core. Considering I melded with Red early game, that dissonance combined with pushing counterwagons to save Cyrus is troubling me, hence the Cyrus question.

[teacher]

I was talking about red. But I think I crossed an ico post into red. Let me reread both slots recent ISO’s and your post.

[teacher]

Ok so I feel the same pings and reason for red even if I crossed an Ico post in to my read there.

On Ico, I’m mostly feeling blah but willing to give a day to break into feeling the pulse of the room. Like a post he calls scummy from NaCl I think is actually quite town. I think I want to wait for actual reasoning and content then pressuring for the same tho.

[teacher]

Right but like walk through it. My issue is I thought that, but then realized that I think they would play this style as any alignment. It’s almost like a serial killer/soloball. I don’t think it’s scum but I don’t see how you can have the degree of confidence you are displaying in what reads to me as a very unstable slot regardless alignment.

is this the cyrus read Holden was talking about as i couldn't find it i am looking for scum and i really truly want to have respect for you teacher i was following you on here and when i seen i was playing with you i had high hopes but being called unstable liability hurts ok just putting that out there ok. if you notist i quit talking because i don't want to get in the way.
btw before you go oh the pocket attempt this is a really true feeling i had for teacher after following him .

I appreciate this post. Doesn’t change my read or choice of wording. I’m not looking to hurt you or call names. But I do think you are an unstable player, the sort who would do very towny things as scum, very scummy things as town, and just generally approach the world through a shape and shade of lenses that I cannot replicate and so cannot understand.

[teacher]

Could be scum!baiting. Could be newb overly focused on the night side of the game (tbh I think this is more likely).

Either way is a weird focus when 90% of the game is helping town find town to admit that he was misrepping a read for the nightkill Woodmont and not even because it was a pr ping. This is what I mean by not game advancing even if town. .

[teacher]

Could be scum!baiting. Could be newb overly focused on the night side of the game (tbh I think this is more likely).

Either way is a weird focus when 90% of the game is helping town find town to admit that he was misrepping a read for the nightkill Woodmont and not even because it was a pr ping. This is what I mean by not game advancing even if town. .

Do you think newbscum! Would be more likely to talk openly about nks and stuff like that from your experience?

It’s honestly too rare/different for me to be able to make rule of thumb rubrics like these even.

[teacher]

Okay just counted and we are. @Iconeum a defense if you will?

Just to let you know how this works.

If you want to lynch him you give a bolder intent and a deadline (usually 12 plus hours unless there’s a deadline problem with that).

The bolder intent tells Ico to claim his role as PR or VT (nobody claims scum) and gives everybody currently voting Ico a chance to get off if they want before the hammer (lynch vote) falls.

Tbh, it’s early for me on an empty slot so I’m going to get off even before intent.

VOTE: Red

[teacher]

Eh I don’t like how red still has t answered my walk me through it question so I do t want to finish the day just yet when there is sorting to be done.

[teacher]

We want to be at L-1 plus intent on a day or so to allow time for a claim and another compromise wagon to form if need be.

I was fine with you gone because I honestly read you as unstable/illogical/antitown. I still do, regardless alignment. I don’t mean that to hurt, though I k ow it does. You’ve admitted to gaming your reads to direct the nk. You’ve admitted to sorting and pulling back a soft to game the nk. You’re wya too focused on the nk and. It enough on sharif honest reads and reactions to help town during the day. It may be TOS training, but here is more daygame focused and so needs more town advancing than nk gaming than I’ve seen from you.

[teacher]

I am dragging my heels. Now what do you think of that?

[teacher]

Did Cyrus come from ToS? I thought that was just Holden and Red.

I was making a TOS comment given the number of players not based on slot. Short version is idk.

[teacher]

We want to be at L-1 plus intent on a day or so to allow time for a claim and another compromise wagon to form if need be.

I was fine with you gone because I honestly read you as unstable/illogical/antitown. I still do, regardless alignment. I don’t mean that to hurt, though I k ow it does. You’ve admitted to gaming your reads to direct the nk. You’ve admitted to sorting and pulling back a soft to game the nk. You’re wya too focused on the nk and. It enough on sharif honest reads and reactions to help town during the day. It may be TOS training, but here is more daygame focused and so needs more town advancing than nk gaming than I’ve seen from you.

this sounds anti town to be honest so your basically saying hey jackel may be scum but i am willing to jump off as soon as intent is giving to aim at lynching town because i don't agree with their game play i did not come from tos this is my 2nd time playing and i thought to my self hey how do we a sure we don't lose pr at night knowing that if we do we would be at a disadvantage let the scum keep guseing who is pr. lynching town just gives scum a free kill and a 2nd chance at finding pr as of now i am the one they want dead just as much as you .

What’s a titoen about wanting to give Ico more tha. A day to get into the game? Explain.

[teacher]

What’s Antitown rather.

[teacher]

FYI it’s very difficult to take something out of context when you put the whole context in the quote box right above it.

But you said I was being antitown. So what is antitown about changing wagons? Why do you think red is town? Answer outside your ow. Alignment, which I have no read on, and doesn’t particularly near on reds regardless.

[teacher]

that's mostly just because he is extremely hard to read and for that reason easy for scum to push for mislynches.

This is kinda a weird thing to say. Like Ive only been mislynched twice in my 20ish games - once at lylo (ahem),

[Deleted due to discussion of ongoing games]

. SO I dont think Im an easy mislynch push? And I think I remember you saying in that lylo game that I am never lhf. So Im missing something.

[teacher]

that's mostly just because he is extremely hard to read and for that reason easy for scum to push for mislynches.

This is kinda a weird thing to say. Like Ive only been mislynched twice in my 20ish games - once at lylo (ahem), and once as a counterclaimed PR where I had been playing semi-intentionally scummy. SO I dont think Im an easy mislynch push? And I think I remember you saying in that lylo game that I am never lhf. So Im missing something.

I was scum that game

Sure, but (a) that doesnt mean you didnt think it, so that's an odd dodge, and (b) that still ignores the lack of mislynches on me. I mean, I change my game to suit my needs with the best of them, but I dont think Im ever an easy lynch so Im asking you to show your work.

[teacher]

2) He put cyrus to L-1 with 0 reason (possibly to get his role claimed and he reached his goal)

Kindly tell me what Cyrus's role is? That is a flat out misrep of the game, designed to shade both me and Cyrus -- I think you are scum using this to bring back up the page 13-15 fiasco now that there is a wagon on you.

[teacher]

Scum don't often question a town read on themselves

Sure they do. It makes the player give reasons, which can then convince others. I can link an example that immediately springs to mind, though it scum asking me to explain the townread of their partner rather than them.

[teacher]

we getting close to a non lynch.

This has never happened outside of mylo in my 20+ games here, and will never happen in any game Im involved in. 3 days =/ close to no lynch.

[teacher]

@Cyrus, you are saying ICO + me are scum, or NaCl+Holden are scum. So functionally, you are scumreading half the board in a 9 player game. Thats, how shall I say, scum-sided.

My PoE for the Day: Red/wagon/Cyrus

PEdit: That's fair enough. Can you tell me how you feel about both Red and Cyrus. NaCl is town.

[teacher]

Towncore: Emps, Holden, NaCl
Leantown: Kaniffee, Ico
Cant read him if you paid me money: Cyrus
Scumleans: Wagon, Red

[teacher]

that's mostly just because he is extremely hard to read and for that reason easy for scum to push

for mislynches.

This is kinda a weird thing to say. Like Ive only been mislynched twice in my 20ish games - once at lylo (ahem), and once as a counterclaimed PR where I had been playing semi-intentionally scummy. SO I dont think Im an easy mislynch push? And I think I remember you saying in that lylo game that I am never lhf. So Im missing something.

I was scum that game

Sure, but (a) that doesnt mean you didnt think it, so that's an odd dodge, and (b) that still ignores the lack of mislynches on me. I mean, I change my game to suit my needs with the best of them, but I dont think Im ever an easy lynch so Im asking you to show your work.

I didn't say you were an easy lynch I said you were an easy push. Actually you being a hard lynch is why you are a good scum push cause they can just say you're scummy all game to present the appearance of solving without having to deal with your greenflip. Remember that game I said you were "never lhf" I also spent half the game shading you and got townread for it

Actually, I said that's fair enough too quick. You didnt say easy push; you said "for mislynches," which makes me think you are changing your answer. And no, in that game, you spend 90% of it being silent and getting away with it. But it was well-played, until you made the meta-sheeping error. I still blame Sho for that game, though we know what she thinks

[teacher]

No, I like how Ico didnt go to the easy counterwagon (on either you or cyrus) when he remains the dominant wagon with some deadline pressure. Thats someone trying to sort, not someone trying to survive.

[teacher]

working all day i have dought about ico being scum just puting that out there i lean more twords number 4 but 3 could be right too.

baseicly it comes down to 1 of 4 things 1. either im wrong about red and hes scum
2. reds right and nacl is scum with ico
3. teach and ico are both scum and teachers so good he can fool people
or 4 ico is right and nacl and holden are scum

i will think on this and re read all the pages and do a iso on every one and see who is who but its awfuly funny how nacl comes up twice.

keep this post in mind

you clearly mis read this teacher i said 4 but before that i also said take teacher out of it and that nacl comes up twice .i didnt say every one was scum i said that they might be and give 4 choises.

Ummm, I dont think I misread. In 1017 (first quote) you say you lean towards 4 (NaCl-Holden), but 3 (teach-ico) could be right too. That's what I was responding too -- you scumming four players.

Regardless, that post is about the most useless thing in the world, it says that (Red/NaCl/Ico/Holden/(maybe me)) are scum. Sure, if you grab half the player list theres likely to be a scum in there.

[teacher]

informal VC

[3] Iconeum:

Wagonomics, RedFlavor, cyrus62

[2] cyrus62:

HoldenGolden, emps

[2] Red:

Teacher, NaCl

[1] Wagon:

Ico

[1] teacher:

Kaniffee

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-07-06 06:00:00)

[teacher]

Right but like walk through it. My issue is I thought that, but then realized that I think they would play this style as any alignment. It’s almost like a serial killer/soloball. I don’t think it’s scum but I don’t see how you can have the degree of confidence you are displaying in what reads to me as a very unstable slot regardless alignment.

@Red, this is still pending.

[teacher]

2) He put cyrus to L-1 with 0 reason (possibly to get his role claimed and he reached his goal)

Kindly tell me what Cyrus's role is? That is a flat out misrep of the game, designed to shade both me and Cyrus -- I think you are scum using this to bring back up the page 13-15 fiasco now that there is a wagon on you.

Didn't he claim VT?

You tell me.
379
392
401
406
409
415
418
430

I dont actually see a hard claim there, and cant make heads or tails of the slot generally. Thats my issue.

[teacher]

Right but like walk through it. My issue is I thought that, but then realized that I think they would play this style as any alignment. It’s almost like a serial killer/soloball. I don’t think it’s scum but I don’t see how you can have the degree of confidence you are displaying in what reads to me as a very unstable slot regardless alignment.

@Red, this is still pending.

I think emps cyrus holden wagon kaniffe town

Use words to explain reasoning on Cyrus. I grokked the early "no scum would play like this" logic, but now I see Cyrus's play as personality-driven rather than alignment. You have a degree of confidence that I cannot understand on this slot. Its either TMI or there is a basis Im not seeing. So kindly, again, walk me through it so I can understand whether you have a basis.

[teacher]

kanniffee side note i am vt ok i am willing to flip to prove this but my bet is now 50 on teacher and 50 on jackel

This is Cyrus's most recent claim

Right, and then he pulls me out of there in his "four possibility" post, but leans towards Ico/Jackal being right and (NaCl-Holden) scum - option 4. Like how is this clearly town......

[teacher]

No, I like how Ico didnt go to the easy counterwagon (on either you or cyrus) when he remains the dominant wagon with some deadline pressure. Thats someone trying to sort, not someone trying to survive.

Uh, he omgus'd the person leading the wagon against him. If he opportunistically bandwagons the opposed leading wagon he doesn't get any towncred but this way he only spews against the person already pushing him

Eh, I see that but it also feels correct timing wise as a reaction to how you two were talking w the other.

[teacher]

kanniffee side note i am vt ok i am willing to flip to prove this but my bet is now 50 on teacher and 50 on jackel

This is Cyrus's most recent claim

Right, and then he pulls me out of there in his "four possibility" post, but leans towards Ico/Jackal being right and (NaCl-Holden) scum - option 4. Like how is this clearly town......

Also, this is not relevant to red's case on me, where he says I voted to get Cyrus to claim

and achieved my objective

. I dont see any hard claim from him any where near the time I voted, and shading me for Cyrus deciding to fake-soft-fake-vt at a time where there was no intent is motivated misreading of the game.

[teacher]

Eh, I dont like the flipping on you and later declaring your early game fluff, I will grant that.
@Ico, speak on your wagon evolution?

[teacher]

If you look at timestamps Holden and I thought the same thing at the same time. Also Cyrus said he was softing. Plus I don’t know how else to interpret “so I can clam” and “I would put my self” and “after I clame I can out my self” as anything other than saying they have a power role even now.

Why don’t you think that is saying they have something to hide until they claim???

Pedit: this is at kaniffee.

[teacher]

Everyone and their mother pushing against red. I’ve found one scum.

[teacher]

Eh, I dont like the flipping on you and later declaring your early game fluff, I will grant that.
@Ico, speak on your wagon evolution?

Ico?

[teacher]

NaCl
Leantown: Kaniffee, Ico

Scumclaim

Explain?

How is disagreeing wjth your reads list a scumclaim?

Ico did nothinh townie
Saying townlran to him is accepting that you are psrtners

Have fun with this and saying it’s a bus then.

intent -20 hours

I’d rather Cyrus but the failure to explain the early wagon townread, then calling wagon’s early game fluff is enough with the deadline motivation.

[teacher]

Thank you for the redactions, and my apologies.

[teacher]

I don’t think Red is town. You can’t know he is town unless you are scum. And I just gave intent on Ico. Do you just not read?

[teacher]

The number of times I've seen that said: many
The number of times I've seen that followed through: 0

Its classic AtE

[teacher]

My intent remains, appr. 4pm New York time.

I will delay my hammer if Ico hasnt logged on, given that it is a holiday. As of now, his profile says he last visited before the intent: "Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:06 pm". If that changes without a post/claim, I will hammer. If it doesnt, I will stall a bit.

[teacher]

Ico, just saw you prefer the it pronoun. Sorry, I try to get those right.

[teacher]

@Ico, why did you townlean Wagon when you came in?

[teacher]

Red, I just learned you are an alt of a player I am getting to know. Can you talk to me about why you are pushing a wagon instead of devils advocating?

[teacher]

Ah, ok. Someone said that elsewhere so I assumed it true. My apologies.

[teacher]

For me (and in this keep in mind your my deadline compromise):

Youre on a vanity that has little chance of succeeding today.

You flopped your Wagon read with little explanation until pressed twice. IF that sort changed so much, presumably your others have, but you arent sharing them - giving you flexibility if you survive for later days.

Your NaCl read is - as you later acknowledged - just wrong.

Your slot was scummy when you came into it.

Wagonomics isnt going through today. Who else do you think is scum?

[teacher]

I also posted my reads on other players already, just not on every player.

Ummmm, not exactly. I have no idea where you stand on 4 slots - half the board:
1. I have no idea where you are on NaCl after withdrawing your error. Still a scumlean? Now Town? Null?
2. You only mention emps and Kaniffee once, as null, in a readslist where you now say one of the two town leans and one of the two scum leans were made in error. I have no idea what you think of these slots either.
3. Cyrus is cyrus.

[teacher]

My intent remains. I’ll hammer at 4 to give the wagon a chance to reevaluate but I don’t see a reason to shift other than to Cyrus since two slots are now claimed.

[teacher]

Will do after kaniffee weighs in.

[teacher]

On the wifom note, the below is courtesy of TW. My only difference from his advice is JK. There, my suggestion is to base your action on the flip - if red, act a cop; if green, act a doc.

Spoiler: the worst’s boilerplate PR post

In case day ends quickly some advice for TPRs (just general advice, Una/Pingu jump in if you disagree or have more to add)


Cop -- DO NOT TARGET STRONG TOWN PLAYERS OR PEOPLE WHO SEEM TO "KNOW SOMETHING". they will be night killed and your results will be useless. IME cops are best suited targeting players who are kinda null reads, leaning one way or the other. if you can reach day 3 (let's say 3 town vs 2 scum) and out yourself along with your results, that's an instant town win! even in 4v1, you can push the decision down to a 50/50 lynch. If you do get a guilty it's generally advised to either 1) out yourself instantly, or 2) make it REALLY obvious who your guilty is so if you flip town can lynch them

Neopolitan -- go for similar targets to docs. not super obvious townies, but also not people who are super shady. do not out your results right away. town power roles and scum power roles both return "not vanilla", so if you do out a NV result it can fuck the town. Try and put them in a scummier range, if anything. If you get a Vanilla result, try and townread them subtly but in a way that we'll notice if you die. If you survive until massclaim this almost nullifies scum fakeclaims.

Tracker -- target the shady people cops need to avoid! if you track someone to a target and they're not dead there's a decent chance the person you tracked is a town power role. reassess this based on the setup once another power role has flipped / claimed etc. If you track someone to a player who dies that night, out your result immediately as on the balance of probabilities it was the night kill.

Jailkeeper -- i hate this role you can be a roleblocker or a doctor. if you think you can guess who is most likely to be the scum killer tonight, target them--but this function is a lot stronger lategame IMO. for the time being, be a doctor. try and target players who you would kill if you were scum (priority 1: people who you think might be town power roles. priority 2: very towny players....IMO)

Doctor -- put on your evil hat and think "who would I kill?", then target that person. As with JK priority#1 is town power roles who you think the scumteam will be on to (generally speaking, scum are better at spotting townies who are playing like power roles than town are. so if you have a suspicion, the scumteam likely do, too). Priority #2 is to target very towny players. FRIENDLY REMINDER if you target a player and they don't die, it is very likely they're town. so try and make it clear but not too clear with your reads d2 that you've "cop cleared" them.


The Wiki has shitloads more info but I'm lazy. Google "mafiascum wiki [role name]" and have a good read.

Good luck<3

[teacher]

I think that is consistent with what is there (if you get a vanilla result, crumb it as town) but if you have suggested wording improvements I’m all ears. I try to put something like this into my newb games if I remember because I think it’s useful learning regardless.

[teacher]

lynch red for great justice.

I can provide my interpretation of what happened, but I would suggest we move on. I dont think it is alignment indicative for any of the slots.

[teacher]

Im basically still on the same readslist I was 100 posts or so ago. I wish everyone a very happy fourth.

[teacher]

My intent remains, appr. 4pm New York time.

Also, just because Cyrus raised it multiple times, my intent was always to hammer when I was awake, not while I was sleeping.

[teacher]

Jefferson lives.

Kani, since weve got time, rap with me about why you don’t like me.

[teacher]

lynch red for great justice.

I can provide my interpretation of what happened, but I would suggest we move on. I dont think it is alignment indicative for any of the slots.

why lynch red slot? I'm feeling town there pretty well

I’m not. I’m seeing weak wagon joins, very different personality than the game you shared and pocketing of Cyrus. Want to convince me?

Also, to show my age and lack of hipness, what is ngl? I see it a lot and have an atmospheric meaning but not an actual one.

[teacher]

Ico what do you think of red?

[teacher]

UNVOTE: and welcome

[teacher]

@RC - 1254

@NaCl - RCE is one of about three players on this site I believe I can soul read given three days with enough activity. I have no desire to be voting someone I can sort, and that I enjoy playing with.

[teacher]

What will the deadline be when the second replacement is found? Can we get 2 days

[teacher]

Eh, Im more interested in exploring some off-brands. I really want to rap with Kani; and to explore our divergent salt reads. Honestly you fall in this category where I think there is more reading to be done with an extended deadline. Youve been pushing Ico but not really given me a broad sense of your perspective on the board (or at least on that has lasted for me).

[teacher]

That’s fair on Ico. I would have expected more participation. Why did you leave Holden out of those reads?

[teacher]

Fair. He’s my towniest pic so far. So where we are worlds apart is salt. I’ve loved their evolution and contributions when they’ve been present. If I’m wrong on my townreads/leans, emps wins that because it could be my bias to liking him and willingness to write off lack of presence as vLa.

[teacher]

VOTE: Ico

RC I’m driving today but will respond before deadline if there’s time left.

[teacher]

Nice ketchup.

I’m back on Ico because we have two claims and I think Cyrus spewed himself town enough.

If we had a lot more time in the day I’d be trying to sort wagon and emps more but we don’t.

[teacher]

Towncore: Emps, Holden, NaCl
Leantown: Kaniffee, Ico
Cant read him if you paid me money: Cyrus
Scumleans: Wagon, Red

I had been toying with a red-Cyrus team which the kerfluffle got rid of. At this point I am slightly evolved from above:

Town:Holden, NaCl
TL:Cyrus, RCE
+side of null:Ico
-side of null:wagon, emps
Scumlean: kani

For whoever asked for a readslist. Sorry I was driving most of the day today.

[teacher]

I don’t like it. The long ketchup without links is Lamist. I feel semi pocketed. And I find him scumreading his ownslot a little tmi where the view on the slot before was either town or erratic and therefore worth a D-1 lynch. I hadn’t ISO’d til you asked but actually would be fine wagoning that claim as well.

I would have assumed scum!cyrus would share cheating concerns by other means, so was adding that to the thought that he was too erratic to be scum, but Blergh is my overall reaction.

[teacher]

Maybe move his slot into the same level as Ico after that iso read.

[teacher]

Kaniffee, when I asked to rap with you I was asking you to explain why you are scum on my slot. You’ve repeatedly expressed suspicious, but not reasons. I want to see how you think a little more.

[teacher]

Why is a long catch-up without links LAMIST? (Or was it how I did it?)

Because of 1342 - it’s relaticely simple to add links, but doing it without vastly reduced the odds of people checking up. So you get credit for a speedrrsd without (too much) concern of consistency or revealing a mindset. It’s more the joe than the what.

As for pockets, I felt like I was more present in the readthrough than I have felt in the game, but that could be because you’re familiar w me and so picking up on more.

[teacher]

Why is a long catch-up without links LAMIST? (Or was it how I did it?)

Because of 1342 - it’s relaticely simple to add links, but doing it without vastly reduced the odds of people checking up. So you get credit for a speedrrsd without (too much) concern of consistency or revealing a mindset. It’s more the joe than the what.

As for pockets, I felt like I was more present in the readthrough than I have felt in the game, but that could be because you’re familiar w me and so picking up on more.

I really didn't think about links; I kind of assumed that everyone would go back and look at the areas I talked about at some point anyway. I could go back and add links if you like...
I picked up on you a lot because I flip flopped on how I was feeling about you for a good while; - like I said, you rubbed me the wrong way at various points - because I was trying to get straight how I felt about your slot.

No need to link for me, I’m dual monitoring it rn, and actually lurking it more even if I’m only in the 300s.

I’m also liking your general activity level. How many games have you played since we last played?

[teacher]

Crap I made a mistake in my readslist. I can’t explain what it was for reasons. But emps should be much higher. And with the deeper dive on Spangled I’m feeling good there.

Holden, salt, emps
Spangled RC
ico
Wagon kani

[teacher]

Let’s take 1047 first. Can you respond to 1051 and 1057 and explain why you stand by it?

[teacher]

As for 579, your reasoning there is that my early iso was more strategy than gameplay focused. I’ve made appr 100 posts since then (more than 66% of my iso) so simply saying you stand by that is nonsensical.

[teacher]

Let’s take 1047 first. Can you respond to 1051 and 1057 and explain why you stand by it?

Also emps saw it that way (393) and spangled did In His ketchup. (Subject of next post)

[teacher]

393 helps me yet further with town!emps, even if he doesn't understand the sheer newbieness of cyrus; I softed a PR investigative role and then hardclaimed a JK my first game (teacher you'll remember that)

I liked this post generally when held against what it was talking about but this reference was quite weird to me - you did this, true, but you did it not as a sheet newb but as a newbscum facing a D1 wagon........

[teacher]

Hey, Teacher, what did RCE do that has you going from scumlean to town between 1254 and 1354? For those of us who can't read his mind.

I liked his entry. I’m not sure he’s town but I’d rather not lynch him.

I’m hating the slow inevitability of this lynch but at this point on a weekend day it is indeed inevitable.

[teacher]

Hey, Teacher, what did RCE do that has you going from scumlean to town between 1254 and 1354? For those of us who can't read his mind.

I liked his entry. I’m not sure he’s town but I’d rather not lynch him.

I’m hating the slow inevitability of this lynch but at this point on a weekend day it is indeed inevitable.

Yeah, I don't really like it either, might as well try for another lynch.

VOTE: Teacher

You realize we are like 12 hours to deadline and emps thinks I’m town right? What are you even trying to do?

[teacher]

I think it’s certainly possible.

We have two hardclaimed slots, why should I want to run a third up?

Would you kindly hammer so that we aren’t relying on Kan to magically appear? It’s a weekend and it’s already past morning when he said he would be on to talk w me.

[teacher]

Guess you couldn’t respond to 1051 and 1057 and 393 then?

[teacher]

Let’s take 1047 first. Can you respond to 1051 and 1057 and explain why you stand by it?

As for 579, your reasoning there is that my early iso was more strategy than gameplay focused. I’ve made appr 100 posts since then (more than 66% of my iso) so simply saying you stand by that is nonsensical.

Like didn’t you say you’d respond to these around breakfast time.

[teacher]

Ok so uhm

I believe this is the right situation for a tracker/neopolitan to claim?

SEs can i get some confirmation

I’m out at a play tonight but definitely on a neap and eh on a tracker. No to anybody else. Emps if you want to copy pasta the logic before I can post, feel free.

[teacher]

Eh I got it done fast enough before curtain.

.
Speaking of which, while we are waiting I promised a little bit of maths:

For the tracker claim strategy, I will refer you to a post made long ago in my history when the tracker claim was a more active part of the newb queue. I am glad that it is gone. But here that post is. Obviously the situation here is slightly different -- it is way more likely we are in B2 or C3 than B1 from the lack of nightkill. Even so, in C3, the claimed tracker gets protection and results. In B2, they likely dont get results, but we can solve around a known!town slot. Im more agnostic here depending on the trackers readslists position.

For the neap claim strategy, I will write the posts: neap only exists in A1 and B3. In A1, we get 2 conf!towns out of the claim (or even better, conf!scum), and the claim leaves the cop less likely to be RBed/killed. In B3, its even better, since we get the same 2 conf!towns and a guarantee of another result because the claimed neap will be protected by the doc. Given the lack of nightkill, if a neap exists at all, it is more likely we are in B2, so would lean towards a claim and public results.

One final maths point in general - it is statistically more likely for a JK to stop the killer than stop the kill in the abstract. But that abstract math matters less than does the JK's ACTUAL reasoning regarding their target.

[teacher]

For 1051 and 1057
First of all this doesn't change the fact that Holden said nothing about soft pr in his post at the same time as you. My point is that by you saying that he was "softing it" colors how people read the post after the fact, and when looking at Cyrus's post it doesn't show softing in and of itself. Your response to it is what made it a soft pr more than anything else. You're right that spangled agreed on it being softing, but Spangled also said that your response to it "rubs me the wrong way."
I don't remember 393 being a thing, but I'll do that in my next post.

This doesn’t actually answer 1051. I quoted the specific language of Cyrus’s post that was softing and asked you to explain how that language could be interpreted as anything other than a soft.
And You’re misrepping Holdens post, which did specifically refer to Roleclaiming iirc (I’m on mobile and - not surprisingly- your post didn’t quote mine to include the link)

[teacher]

laughs i thought i teased you enough to where you knew i wasn't pocketing holdem can you put it back to l1 so i can clam and finally answer emps questions because i didnt wantg to answer queston 5 and 6 cuse i thought i would out my self but after i clame i can out my self

What's the point of this?

If your going to write out a post about

claiming a role

, then why on earth does it matter if I re-vote?

[teacher]

If you look at timestamps Holden and I thought the same thing at the same time. Also Cyrus said he was softing. Plus I don’t know how else to interpret “so I can clam” and “I would [o]ut my self” and “after I clame I can out my self” as anything other than saying they have a power role even now.

Why don’t you think that is saying they have something to hide until they claim???

Pedit: this is at kaniffee.

The quotes are from Curus’s 379 iirc.

[teacher]

plz push wagonomics tomorrow

Could you like actually play rather than your game

[teacher]

Crap I made a mistake in my readslist. I can’t explain what it was for reasons. But emps should be much higher. And with the deeper dive on Spangled I’m feeling good there.

Holden, salt, emps
Spangled RC
ico
Wagon kani

Teacher, Holden
Salt, Emps
Spangled, RC
Kani, Wagon

See with eight it makes such nice rows.

[teacher]

Eh I got it done fast enough before curtain.

.
Speaking of which, while we are waiting I promised a little bit of maths:

For the tracker claim strategy, I will refer you to a post made long ago in my history when the tracker claim was a more active part of the newb queue. I am glad that it is gone. But here that post is. Obviously the situation here is slightly different -- it is way more likely we are in B2 or C3 than B1 from the lack of nightkill. Even so, in C3, the claimed tracker gets protection and results. In B2, they likely dont get results, but we can solve around a known!town slot. Im more agnostic here depending on the trackers readslists position.

For the neap claim strategy, I will write the posts: neap only exists in A1 and B3. In A1, we get 2 conf!towns out of the claim (or even better, conf!scum), and the claim leaves the cop less likely to be RBed/killed. In B3, its even better, since we get the same 2 conf!towns and a guarantee of another result because the claimed neap will be protected by the doc. Given the lack of nightkill, if a neap exists at all, it is more likely we are in B2, so would lean towards a claim and public results.

One final maths point in general - it is statistically more likely for a JK to stop the killer than stop the kill in the abstract. But that abstract math matters less than does the JK's ACTUAL reasoning regarding their target.

Wait, why is a tracker claim less of a part of the newbie queue now?
What changed between then and now?

[quote="In post 1424, Spangled”]
Wait, why is a tracker claim less of a part of the newbie queue now?
What changed between then and now?[/quote]
I dunno. Like I guarantee you’ve heard of the greeting tell if you’ve played in any of the last 30 newbies. It gets discussed day 1.

That is the new “tracker claim” - the passing fad that was discussed a lot. Except the tracker claim typically led to six pages of mechanical arguments rather than just one.

I didbt like it at the time.

[teacher]

Ouch. Sorry.

[teacher]

When I get some motivation to effort I'll pro/con both Teacher and Wagon.

Would saying that this would v much help me sort both wagon and you help the motivation? Becuase Im looking forward to it.

[teacher]

Crap I made a mistake in my readslist. I can’t explain what it was for reasons. But emps should be much higher. And with the deeper dive on Spangled I’m feeling good there.

Holden, salt, emps
Spangled RC
ico
Wagon kani

Teacher, Holden
Salt, Emps
Spangled, RC
Kani, Wagon

See with eight it makes such nice rows.

why is spangled so low?

You mean in the exact middle of the 7 slots that aren’t me? Because I’m null on them. I don’t really know how to expand on a null read, but if you want to ask me about certain posts, I’ll chat.

[teacher]

I'll say that Kaniffe is probably the most consistent slot in this game. Like it's impressive.

Yea, but that’s kind of odd. Most slots evolve.

One thing I’ll say is that she is reading the game too literal. Don’t just look at the face of the words, try to construct the worldview behind them. Like you built a world-view for Cyrus on the L-1 claiming. You did it there but I don’t feel like it’s honestly trying to sort me - to see how the words can honestly be viewed another way.

Speaking of, @kan, vts don’t hide their role. Sure they don’t explicitly claim it. But the only way for town to win this game is for town to find town. So vts don’t have a role to hide. Only scum and PRs do. That’s why I view Cyrus’s insinuation that he had a role that needed to be hidden as a PR hint. That’s also why standard PR advice is to act a bit scummy - avoid the nk. Standard town advice is to get solving - bleed town and find the others doing so.

[teacher]

But look who’s being inactive/basically no game relevant posts - wagon, RC: the SEs who should be setting an example.

[teacher]

Hell, even you suspect kan but haven't joined the wagon (though you have been around to voice your view which I appreciate).

Actually I’m coming around to him be in town and in any event have a bigger suspect I’ve been sitting on til they get active for a bit. Also, after reading that one, I need a shower.

[teacher]

are we allowed to do unofficial VCs this weekend due to V/LA? B) Can we still talk after a lynch has been reached if it occurs during that time?

I’ll answer as a mod but not the mod of this game:
Nothing prevents you from posting a vc at any time (I think I did one already this game iirc) and you may always talk unless the thread is locked or you died/replaced.

[teacher]

@1503: I don’t find most of your posts today particularly game advancing and I’ve been waiting for RCs pro/con on our two slots for a couple days.

[teacher]

Do you mind if I butt in in that question?

[teacher]

I think activity levels both early and later were consistent site wide - perhaps the vacation got more active. You can judge yourself but that’s my two cents.

[teacher]

You’re pointing to a post you made AFTER I said you were absent as contradicting my point

[teacher]

When I mobile iso slimmed I only saw one in there. Fair enough.

[teacher]

When I mobile iso slimmed I only saw one in there. Fair enough.

Actually this is the second time Ive said fair enough too quickly. This is what you had claimed to have said:

"I have two townreads and am thinking"

So I looked for BOTH those elements in your iso, and didnt find it.

Admittedly, this is my error -- I didnt pay attention to 1451's addition of holden - I gloss over your tables because I saw them as unhelpful fluffposting/distracting. Thats my error. And it combined with 1485 say what you claimed. But they werent in one post and I missed it.

I wouldnt say Ive been disengaged this game any more so than any others?

[teacher]

nah mate, scum or town, Im always interested in content. I still dont see you generating that much (I think Ive done more than you tbh, so the disengaged shade threw me as well), but Im good to move past. To repeat my earlier question, do you have any posts of spangled you want me to dig in on.

I will say your Cyrus read doesnt do much for me. Thats a player I am resigned to not being able to read or understand until Ive seen him flip scum a few times.

[teacher]

What and where (given that that would be four players to ISO, I figure its quicker to ask)

[teacher]

Put it up on imgur and send a link. I can size it.

[teacher]

VOTE: RCE

Really want that pro/con case from a few days ago.

[teacher]

RCE, I also need some reasoning. Thats how I read you. Not pings, but thought process.

[teacher]

@ RCE - Im a bit overgamed and focused elsewhere rn.

@Kan - https://imgur.com/a/XEUhJEQ should be the right size.

Im off for a roadtrip. Back tomorrow.

[teacher]

Put me with 120 Holden town 80 Spangled town. I was too focused elsewhere and lost track of this game. Cyrusbis Mech town

There’s a scum I. Wagon and RC. I’m leaning RC but want to explore his wagon plays scum honest card, because I’m finding wagon quite honest and finding myself agreeing with him.

I kinda recall someone questioning my salt read. I’m seeing a whole lor of effort there. There is desire for understanding - questioning but sharing reactions. It is coming from a consistent mindset.

I feel pretty good about emps town too. Actually chop 20 from Spangled and 20 from Holden so it becomes 100, 60, 40 and I’m good.

[teacher]

RC could you please elaborate on your wagonomics honest scum?

[teacher]

I get you. Sorry I thought you meant wagon in particular is honest when he roles scum.

I’m leadless and listless. I think I want you gone. Kani is ok w me.

[teacher]

VOTE: Emps

Partial attractive alt wagon, partially just not feeling Emps when he should have arrived back to the states I believe.

Ive been too absent this game and will read back on through tonight.

[teacher]

Unexplained reads: Red, Cyrus, Nacl. The latter is the alarming one.

Read NaCls iso. I’m seeing questions and analysis that’s coming from a consistent mindset. It’s gotten better as the games gone on.

I also reread the early game and emps is town. I’m not down for a counterwagon there. I just have lost the story line of this game too many times )I forgot about the Cyrus PMing thing even)

Confident town: Holden, NaCl, emps, Spangled

Leaves: wagon, RC, kani

Still feeling like my early tweaks in red were right.

VOTE: RC that make work post had a lot of work.

[teacher]

Since it looks like Holden is still around and Im on L-1 24 hours before deadline, Id rather avoid a lolhammer. Im JK. I kept Holden.

[teacher]

To be clear, there is a CC in 8/9 setups if this is a fakeclaim. Cop, Neap, and JK are all counterclaims.

[teacher]

I’m Just Kidding

I’m JK. This is the whole reason I did weird caps things and had a makework post.
Also why Holden was on the same level as me in my readslist today.

I want to lynch RC with a side of kani.

[teacher]

VC 2.3

[4]teacher:

Kaniffee, NaCl, RCEnigma, HoldenGolden

[1]Kaniffee:

Spangled

[1]Wagonomics:

emps

[1]RCEnigma:

teacher

[1]emps:

Wagonomics

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 2 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-07-16 19:17:46)

Mod Notes:

Mod survived the outside.

VC 1.FINAL

[5] Iconeum:

RCEnigma, Spangled, Wagonomics, teacher, Kaniffee

(Lynch)

[1] RCEnigma:

emps

[1] Spangled:

Iconeum

[1] teacher:

NaCl

[1] Not Voting:

HoldenGolden

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-07-07 21:00:00)

RC and Kan are the only two overlaps on town wagons. One scum there. I think it’s RC with NaCl. RC was pushing me as partnered with NaCl so he could back off the NaCl read tomorrow after my townflip.

[teacher]

Yea I’ve seen a lot of logical progression, but I’m a pretty big believer in one on one off and I like both emps and obviously Holden a lot more for town. The associative pairing also pings me because it gives RC a great opportunity to distance and then retract w my theoretical townflip.

[teacher]

One on one off the D1 wagon, to be clear. It’s by no means a lock, but it is statistically likely.

And yes, I have no intention of pushing you and I don’t think anyone else does either. Wagon is slightly outside of his scum meta, and I’ve never played with RCE scum but he is off meta for me, so I like him for scum more than Kani eho I think is more confused towny.

[teacher]

Nah if a scum is holding the hammer the other one is on.

[teacher]

Hey, teacher, could you let everyone know who you plan on visiting tonight

if RCE flips as scum

? This way we'll be able to clear someone if you die.

Please don't lynch anyone before this is said.

You.

[teacher]

than if Kanifee flips scum you're looking at Spangled and Wagonomics

and if RCE flips scum we lynch NaCl

but what if NaCl/RCE isnt a scumteam?

then who do we look at?

hmm, now that im thinking it over, plan sounds good.

VOTE: RCE

pretty much RCE lynch

flip scum lynch NaCl

flip town lynch Kani

is that right teacher?

Not exactly. Pick between wagon and kani.

[teacher]

Can someone do a count

[teacher]

I was too checked out/burnt out this game, but thought everyone played really well.

Emps, you played an incredible game. The best thing you did was use scumchat as much as you did. It is amazing what a difference that makes -- all newbscum victories I have seen except one had long scumthreads, and most dont (hence the townsided statistics). I think you could have have gotten to a better mylo by not NKing me, and having Kan crumb doc after my claim D2 and claiming it to avoid the lynch D3.

The cyrus slot was, IMO, locktown by the PM. That may be OGI, but there is no way he PMs a player if he has a PT. It put the mod in a difficult situation, but I appreciate how well it was handled and the modding all game.

Salt, you made yourself obv town with the cases. That was the one read I was really confident on. I also enjoyed Holden's style and fire for the game. I would love to play with you all again.

[teacher]

or pm their partners for lurking in olden games

You cannot communicate outside game threads. PMing counts as that. IT is a rules violation, pure and simple.

[teacher]

Also my 1-on, 1-off theory is only based on studies of town lynches D-1. I think D2 and after (when there is actual information), wagon analysis depends alot more on actual gamestate/existence of townblocks/etc., and so havent tried to come up with a generalization

[teacher]

honest queston not a slip .. theres a place to learn how to be scum?

Unfortunately not really, what he meant is that if it happens to be a newbie scum + SE scum, then the SE scum will usually warn the newbie scum to avoid certain things in the PT.

One of the unfortunate things with the pace of newbie games is it means many newbies start playing in main queue without ever having rolled scum or having worked on their scum game. Not a lot of elegant ways of dealing with that problem though.

Eh, I disagree. But Im not sharing now. Ask this after the game and I will share a few things I have seen and thought were strong.

I thought this was awesome.

My general advice is to ignore your information. Play your game as you normally play it. Push who you would normally push. If that winds up being your partner, ok, you're bussing! If not, all the better. Playing that way allows you to be tonally pure, to meta-defend, and to not have to worry about slips/being caught in a lie. But I've only rolled scum once, so take that for exactly what its worth.

[teacher]

Pagetop! Booyah emps.

[teacher]

yea, that might have changed the outcome even, so glad it didnt get a response