Starting with 5 seems too hasty to me, but I've never played a game mode like this before.
Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
In the case of our coalition being wrong, we can be certain that at least 1 of the people not in the majority's coalition is town. That's probably more valuable than knowing 1 or 2 in 7 is scum.In post 19, Hectic wrote:
is it considered a deep wolf if they're just in the top 5 town reads?In post 10, Alchemist21 wrote:HEAL: Alchemist, RC most awesomest, NC 39, Gamma Emerald, EspressoPatronum
That’s myself plus the 3 slots I believe to be the strongest slots coming into the game plus Espresso since I liked their entrance.
I think the Coalition should be the 5 strongest/Towniest players not just for the obvious reasons of the D1 wincon but also as a weak investigational tool if it fails - if the Coalition fails we know there’s a deep wolf in a group where we might not otherwise suspect scum to be.
regarding the investigation potential, it is useful for knowing there's at least 1 scum in the group, i don't we can even be too confident that there can't be two scum in the 5 we agree on, so the utility isn't actually that useful-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
What's wrong with approaching the coalition setup with a solve mindset?In post 23, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
In post 37, RC most awesomest wrote:
wrong???In post 34, Gamma Emerald wrote:
No. I think they've gotten close in the past.In post 33, Hectic wrote:has town ever won by correctly selecting an all town coalition D1?
you were literally scum in the game that town won day one????
???
wiki link for the unaware – The Coalition
-nsg
For those wondering:In post 39, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Then my memory fails me because I recall that not happening, though I do recall losingIn post 37, RC most awesomest wrote:
wrong???In post 34, Gamma Emerald wrote:
No. I think they've gotten close in the past.In post 33, Hectic wrote:has town ever won by correctly selecting an all town coalition D1?
you were literally scum in the game that town won day one????
???
wiki link for the unaware – The Coalition
-nsg
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=77544-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
I'm skimming through the above game now to see what they did right. A few points that stood out to me in the first few pages:
- they talk about past games and setup a fair bit.
- don't treat your coalition like your reads list. Be aggressive with adding and subtracting from it
- put readable people in your coalition, not necessarily the ppl who seem towny
- re the above - at least 1 of the 2 scum will be able to appear towny, so it's better to have easy to read ppl in your coalition.
I have to go for a while, but I plan on reading the rest of the game to see how it developed.
@NSG is there anything that town did in that game that stood out to you as being influential in the win?
@Gamma, if you get the time to reread some of the game to jog your memory, can you comment on anything you tried to do as scum that town was good at counteracting? What should we be watching out for that may be specific to coalition games?-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
RC's intro reads like an excuse for him to not play his usual town game. I'm not familiar with RC's scum game, but from the games I've played with + seen him in, he usually plays aggressive town.
I'd like some more information from @nsg. Specifically, why do you think I'm scum + what is your answer to my question about the past game.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
Oh woa, I didn't realize you were in this game.In post 72, Clemency wrote:am i late to the party?
Drop some Clemency insights and I'll think about it, haha.Clemency wrote:why am i not in everyone's town buckets, smh-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
How did you get cheated out of the win?In post 56, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Cool, this has finally started. I was in Skitter’s game and we actually won on D1, only to have RAS cheat us out of a much deserved win.
Can you share with us some of the things town did well in that game that we can implement in this game?-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
The long run of D1 for the coalition, or the long run of the game as a whole?In post 81, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
It doesn’t help in the long run.In post 32, EspressoPatronum wrote:
What's wrong with approaching the coalition setup with a solve mindset?In post 23, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?
Why doesn't it help in the long run?-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
First of all, it's not my job to appease you. Second, I'm saying you're behaving differently than the RC I have played with and observed through reading other games.In post 90, RC most awesomest wrote:EP why do you as town think that going out of your way to tilt me to get maybe 2% win equity if I'm scum is worth sacrificing a massive amount of win equity if I'm town?
I also fail to see why you think I'm trying to tilt you by scumreading you + not putting you in my coalition. It's part of the game.
I have no doubt in RC's abilities, but I've seen this method used a few times by experienced players. Nobody is above it.In post 94, RC most awesomest wrote:
[...]
i don't think rc is the kind of person who needs an excuse when he's playing scum.In post 75, EspressoPatronum wrote:RC's intro reads like an excuse for him to not play his usual town game. I'm not familiar with RC's scum game, but from the games I've played with + seen him in, he usually plays aggressive town.
I'd like some more information from @nsg. Specifically, why do you think I'm scum + what is your answer to my question about the past game.
That's a fair observation on a mechanics-driven entrance, and I'll keep that in mind when I roll scum some day (still 0 scum games on forum).i said that i scumleaned you because i felt like your posts were somewhat contentless and reminded me of a classic scum tactic of just talking about mechanics in an attempt to make it look like you're solving the game. specifically, the "what's the optimal approach" and other statements like that. i've entered threads the exact same way before as scum, and i've seen others do it not infrequently.
That being said, in a short read of my meta, you'll see I like to look at mechanics early, especially in games that are not a normal setup. In the Purge game, for example, I was all about mechanics. While that game was more mechanical than this game, I think there is/was worthwhile discussion on the coalition mechanic.
Ignoring the discussion because you and a few others have already played the setup is a disservice to town as a whole. I take your point below, however, that it's important to not get hung up on the mechanics.
Thanks for this.keeping in mind that i've both moderated this setup and played in it – i would say that town has won before by actually just putting towny players in the coalition. sounds simple, but goes against the third point that you noticed of winning by putting readable people rather than towny people – the dark wanderer, skitter, the worst and irrelephant as a collective probably rank among the top scum players on the site, and yet they (along with myself) made up the winning coalition. i really don't think there are any "tricks" or something along that line. i think focusingtoo muchon the mechanic takes is a distraction – figure out your reads, update your coalition accordingly, and try to come to a consensus. that's about the best advice i can give to win the game.
-nsg
No lunch was advocating for putting readable ppl in the coalition over townreads, but she slowly changes her stance over the next 10 pages of Micro 829. While I haven't finished reading it through yet, I wouldn't be surprised to see everyone coming around to putting towny ppl in the coalition over readable ppl.
Can you link the game you're talking about in which you were town + won?-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
Thanks! I'll take a look at this one once I finish up with the other one.In post 98, RC most awesomest wrote:fair point on people who haven't played this setup before
here's the one i was referring to
-nsg-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
In post 100, EspressoPatronum wrote:HEAL: Gamma
The Gamma v LUV disagreement looks genuine + Gamma came out of it looking more town.
HEAL: Spangled
Liking Spangled's posting style thus far. I'm not yet certain if the wide coalition read on Spangled is a good or bad thing, but I'm treating it as a good thing for now.Oh whups, I tried using Sky's formatting for the Hurt + Heal thing but I also took the colour. EBWOP.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
My thinking on the Gamma read was this: as long as I believe their argument wasn't SvS, at least 1 of them is town. I agree that Gamma doesn't lookIn post 103, Spangled wrote: [...]
Also, about the Gamma v LUV thing, I think Gamma came out of itsomewhattowny, but what did you think about LUV? Did you agree with Gamma on his defensiveness?supertowny from the exchange, but he definitely looks more towny than LUV, meaning that he's more likely the town in a TvS scenario.
Regarding the defensiveness, I agree with Gamma. LUV's "no u" reaction wasn't helpful to anyone. In addition, I don't like LUV's answer to my question on why we shouldn't be discussing mechanics.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
I'm liking Hectic's content and reads, but the difference in his playstyle is really nagging at me. It's almost like he's too good to be true now that he's playing normally, and I'm seeing that as a possible scum tactic.
@anyone else who has played with him, what are your thoughts on his behaviour? Do you think the change in his posting style is AI? Why/why not?-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
I was hoping you'd have a bit more to substantiate the read at this point, as scum!nsg could very easily post more. What's your read on the RC head*?In post 132, Alchemist21 wrote: [...]
RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.
*Note - I find it hard to read hydras. Is it better practice to split the read by head and consolidate later, or approach the read in a holistic manner from the outset?-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
HEAL: Hectic[/quote]
I still have some meta reservations about him, but I like his content. On a brief iso skim:
+ he was willing to retract his RVS coalition vote
+ he's asking about reads and furthering discussion
+ he's being proactive with providing information
+ his reads seem to develop naturally
+ I agree with his reads
- he hasn't changed on his townread of me. Slight chance of this being an attempt at buddying.
- the meta/posting change, as discussed above
Overall, I'm happy with the +'s and think the -'s are probably just me being paranoid.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
EBWOP. I'll get the heal tag right one of these days XDIn post 139, EspressoPatronum wrote:HEAL: Hectic
I still have some meta reservations about him, but I like his content. On a brief iso skim:
+ he was willing to retract his RVS coalition vote
+ he's asking about reads and furthering discussion
+ he's being proactive with providing information
+ his reads seem to develop naturally
+ I agree with his reads
- he hasn't changed on his townread of me. Slight chance of this being an attempt at buddying.
- the meta/posting change, as discussed above
Overall, I'm happy with the +'s and think the -'s are probably just me being paranoid.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
Why? This makes no sense unless it's out of spite for my read.In post 145, RC most awesomest wrote:for my part i'm just going to treat EP like a nonparticipant in the game and hope that we win via coalition not including them regardless of their alignment.
I'm treating you exactly like I treated Formerfish in the Purge game. I have a small understanding of your town game and have concluded you're not playing within that normal style.In post 146, RC most awesomest wrote:
it's not about my feelings, it's about the fact that it's objectively wrong to do soIn post 63, NC 39 wrote:I promise if it fails I won’t immediately point fingers at your slot because I know how you feel about people lynching you just based on your reputation as a strong scum player.
the only way that feelings come into play is how everyone ~feels~ about the prospect of losing to me
it's not some kind of personal fucking favor to me to treat me like an actual player in a game of mafia
Look at it from the other point of view:
I'd like to think that at this point, I have a reputation of posting a lot and asking a lot of questions. It'd completely fair and valid for someone to question my alignment of me I played a game and did not play within my usual behaviour. There might be a valid reason for my change of behaviour, but that doesn't take away from the validity of someone else calling attention to it.
As stated earlier, my read of you has nothing to do with your scum game and everything to do with your town game.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
This is almost the exact line of reasoning I used on my scum read of you and you nearly wrote me out of the game because of it.In post 172, RC most awesomest wrote:Just so we're clear, EP isn't policy. He's taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me.
I disliked your reaction to my read because it was either scummy or petty, and neither is good for town.
Please show me where I haven't engaged.Try to discredit me, call me scum while avoiding engagement and discrediting townreads on me.
I'd say my engagement with nsg has been pretty good, actually. That's mostly because she was willing to engage back.The NSG engagement is even worse, she has a clearly established meta of efforting less as scum and there's even a hydra game of the two of us where we were scum where she literally posted once, and he's handwaving that as well. It's not an honest interaction with my slot: either his approach to this game was clearly defined before game as prevent RChydra from being in the coalition at all costs or he is scum.
[...]
Now that you're back to acknowledging me, we can start to move forward here.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
I don't know if it's a scum thing more than just an unhelpful town thing most times.In post 197, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Why? Do you have examples of scum doing it?In post 193, RC most awesomest wrote:i dislike it when people ask the generic question "what are your reads" without any seeming deeper purpose
From what I've read I'm guides and such, better questions include:
- what is your read on [specific player]?
- what do you think of [thing that happened]?
- do you agree with X line of thinking?
Open-ended questions with room for the person to speak more towhythey think something, rather than what they think.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
@Hectic, I forget where you asked me this, but I can't find it in my quick skim.
I think your decision to remove your RVS coalition vote shows (1) a measure of indecision and (2) a willingness to compromise. Both are town traits.
On the second point, your discussion with RCMA and your eventual coalition vote of RCMA is a further example of this.
I'm feeling very good about town Hectic.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
I liked Spangled's posts, but his town reads of me might be biasing my thought process. I'll take a look at his ISO when I can. This week is pretty busy for me, so no promises on my timeliness.
I'm not feeling as good about my Gamma coalition read anymore. As above, I'll look into it more when I can.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
@nsg, my moving forward post was directed to the RC head, as he was trying to write me out the the game for reasons with which I strongly disagree. I've been trying to address you as nsg throughout + will continue to do so unless you prefer another tag. "RCMA" applies to both of you. Apologies for any confusion.
Also @nsg, I should also have been clearer with my Spangled update -- yours and Hectic's posts (and maybe others? I can't remember) have caused me to reconsider my Spangled read. As such, I will do a proper ISO and revisit the read later.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
See post 97. If you still don't agree in the similar reasoning, I'm happy to weigh in further.In post 256, Gamma Emerald wrote:
How thoIn post 238, EspressoPatronum wrote:This is almost the exact line of reasoning I used on my scum read of you-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
What, in your opinion, was I accused of?In post 257, Gamma Emerald wrote:Spoiler:
I felt like this entire post is trying to stick what EP was accused of onto RCMA-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
HURT: Gamma, Spangled
Gamma just seems to be poking holes in what everyone is saying without actually giving a lot of information. I misread that earlier as him being inquisitive.
RCMA makes a good argument on Spangled. While I could still see town!Spangled over town Clemency and/or LUV, I'm not so attached to the idea of town!Spangled that I'll go to bat for him. I haven't done my ISO of Spangled yet, so I'll go ahead and let that sit in my growing to-do list.
HEAL: NC, RCMA [/quote]
I feel much better about NC than I do Gamma, so I'm happy to make the replacement here. As mentioned above, I'm planning to form a more detailed read here later.
I'm liking nsg's engagement, and her towniness outweighs my misgivings about RC.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
Before I answer your question fully, I want to make sure we're both on the same page.In post 263, Gamma Emerald wrote:
On top of the "doing what scum do around me" thing, you also say "I engaged with NSG because she engaged back", which seems to be placing the blame on RC not engaging you for why you haven't really interacted, when that's not the case as I see it and RC had poked at you for refusing to interact with him except to call him scum.In post 259, EspressoPatronum wrote:
What, in your opinion, was I accused of?In post 257, Gamma Emerald wrote:Spoiler:
I felt like this entire post is trying to stick what EP was accused of onto RCMA
1. Is it fair to say that your answer to my question is: EP was accused of not engaging + am now trying to pin that on RCMA?
2. Have you recently read my ISO, or are you engaging with me right now based off your recollection of events?-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
In that case, can you please read my ISO first? My answer to your RC questions earlier will essentially be me rehashing what I've already said.
RC said: "[EP has] taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me.Gamma Emerald wrote:
I don't see what in 97 covers "looks like how scum treat me in other games"In post 258, EspressoPatronum wrote:
See post 97. If you still don't agree in the similar reasoning, I'm happy to weigh in further.In post 256, Gamma Emerald wrote:
How thoIn post 238, EspressoPatronum wrote:This is almost the exact line of reasoning I used on my scum read of you
I said: RC was playing differently from his usually aggressive town game, which was a method I have seen experienced scum do in some of my recent games.
Proof:
Spoiler:
Both of us were saying that the other was taking a line of play consistent with scum behaviour we had witnessed in recent games.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
I think what NC is getting at is that they want you to be more proactive with your reads and/or supplying us with information.In post 276, Alchemist21 wrote:
How do I expand on a nullread? I can’t.In post 270, NC 39 wrote:
fair point I guess although you were plenty of capable of expanding on why you didn't have a town read on us and we are close to DL so isn't about time to start sharing your view of the gamestate?In post 250, Alchemist21 wrote:You’ve asked me exactly one thing and in the very next post Gamma pointed out your question had been answered already.
Imo, only weighing in when you're asked questions is a more reactionary and less helpful style compared to proactively engaging with the thread.
More information is better than none, so I'm happy to hear your thoughts on pretty much everything and anything.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
I'll help jumpstart the information requested above. Can you give us more on your Hectic ping? You said he's been pinging you all game but you pointed to two recent developments. Can you tell us some of the early things Hectic did that pinged you?In post 251, Alchemist21 wrote:Spoiler:
I have to say you’ve been pinging me this whole game. What makes Spangled a good vote in your eyes? How come you seemingly forgot about voting for anyone else this whole time?-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
Thanks for this, Hectic.In post 282, Hectic wrote:
i think my read is RCMA>Espresso>Spangled>NC 39>Gamma>Clemency/LUV>AlchemistIn post 278, EspressoPatronum wrote:Hey Hectic, what's your coalition read on Gamma? If you were to remove him, who would you replace him with?
i know people will question my Alchemist vote, more of a gutread than anything, i'll go looking for actual reasons tomorrow, it's way too late right now
I'm not sure I'm on board with Alchemist being on the lowest rung, but I think a scum gutread on him is reasonable given his more reactive style.
Looking forward to hearing more about it tomorrow.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
LUV, for two reasons:In post 289, Spangled wrote:
If you’re not on board with Alchemist on the lowest rung (that is to say, for the lynch), who are you on board (or most on board) with lynching?In post 283, EspressoPatronum wrote:
Thanks for this, Hectic.In post 282, Hectic wrote:
i think my read is RCMA>Espresso>Spangled>NC 39>Gamma>Clemency/LUV>AlchemistIn post 278, EspressoPatronum wrote:Hey Hectic, what's your coalition read on Gamma? If you were to remove him, who would you replace him with?
i know people will question my Alchemist vote, more of a gutread than anything, i'll go looking for actual reasons tomorrow, it's way too late right now
I'm not sure I'm on board with Alchemist being on the lowest rung, but I think a scum gutread on him is reasonable given his more reactive style.
Looking forward to hearing more about it tomorrow.
1. The lurking
2. I didn't like his early posts-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
Welcome, YOUAREGREAT!
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
Again, please read my ISO, as I have already answered this question.In post 298, Gamma Emerald wrote:
How is RC playing less aggressive in line with what you've seen other scum do?In post 277, EspressoPatronum wrote:In that case, can you please read my ISO first? My answer to your RC questions earlier will essentially be me rehashing what I've already said.
RC said: "[EP has] taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me.Gamma Emerald wrote:
I don't see what in 97 covers "looks like how scum treat me in other games"In post 258, EspressoPatronum wrote:
See post 97. If you still don't agree in the similar reasoning, I'm happy to weigh in further.In post 256, Gamma Emerald wrote:
How thoIn post 238, EspressoPatronum wrote:This is almost the exact line of reasoning I used on my scum read of you
I said: RC was playing differently from his usually aggressive town game, which was a method I have seen experienced scum do in some of my recent games.
Proof:
Spoiler:
Both of us were saying that the other was taking a line of play consistent with scum behaviour we had witnessed in recent games.
For your convenience - here it is: FormerFish did the exact same thing in Purge. I know him as an aggressive town player, so when he left some throwaway comment about sitting back that game, I (correctly) called it out as scummy.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
Update:In post 364, EspressoPatronum wrote:
LUV, for two reasons:In post 289, Spangled wrote:
If you’re not on board with Alchemist on the lowest rung (that is to say, for the lynch), who are you on board (or most on board) with lynching?In post 283, EspressoPatronum wrote:
Thanks for this, Hectic.In post 282, Hectic wrote:
i think my read is RCMA>Espresso>Spangled>NC 39>Gamma>Clemency/LUV>AlchemistIn post 278, EspressoPatronum wrote:Hey Hectic, what's your coalition read on Gamma? If you were to remove him, who would you replace him with?
i know people will question my Alchemist vote, more of a gutread than anything, i'll go looking for actual reasons tomorrow, it's way too late right now
I'm not sure I'm on board with Alchemist being on the lowest rung, but I think a scum gutread on him is reasonable given his more reactive style.
Looking forward to hearing more about it tomorrow.
1. The lurking
2. I didn't like his early posts
LUV, fortwothree reasons:
1. The lurking
2. I didn't like his early posts
3. I don't like his recent posts
Most of the catch-up posts are excuses for not helping town, and the others give us weak reads on 2 or 3 people.
I struggle to envision a scenario in which I don't vote LUV here, much less put him in my coalition.
VOTE: LUV-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
LUV, for
twothreefour reasons:
1. The lurking
2. I didn't like his early posts
3. I don't like his recent posts
4. I don't like the OMGUS vote-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
HEAL: Spangled
I read Spangled's ISO and reread RCMA's scumcase on Spangled. I also considered GREAT's town read of Spangled and Hectic's meta analysis of Spangled (which offsets some of the RCMA concerns imo), I'm happy with Spangled in a coalition.
As another note, Spangled hasn't seemed worried about being removed from the coalition. If you'll recall, Gamma said he started feeling desperate as scum in nsg's game when town cut him out of the coalition. I saw no notable changes in Spangled's play after he got cut from the coalition.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
NC raises an interesting point, but I'm not comfortable enough with it to put LUV in my coalition.In post 455, Spangled wrote:@EP
What’s your take on LUV, post-NC 39’s observation about how consensus seems to be that LUV is scum?
First, I want active people in my coalition so I have a better chance at correctly sorting them. Putting LUV in because of inactivity and everyone else's behaviour seems backwards.
Second, all of my previous thoughts on LUV still apply. If we consider LUV's universal scum read ("USR") as a town factor in reading him, I'm still left with:
To expand:In post 369, EspressoPatronum wrote:LUV, for
twothreefour reasons:
1. The lurking
2. I didn't like his early posts
3. I don't like his recent posts
4. I don't like the OMGUS vote
1. My experience thus far has scum lurks surprisingly often. I even advocate for lurker policy lynches in most of my games bcz of how often I've seen scum skate by under the radar by lurking.
2. He wasn't helpful early. Telling us to ignore the mechanics of the game was anti-town. His early RC tr looks like he was trying to avoid attention. Alchemist gave a meta reason for his read, but I recall LUV leaving the TR without any reasons.
3. I disagreed with most of his catch-up posts. I also think that anyone touting a 'low activity' meta for town is doing a disservice to everyone else playing.
4. He again provided no reasons for what he was doing. I'm not even sure if OMGUS is scum indicative, but it's not a good look either way.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
Nvm. I thought for a moment that maybe Gamma doesn't post very much as scum (he was a middle poster in nsg's coalition game), but I don't think that's right. He was top 3 in posts as scum in Pokemon Fusion U-Pick.In post 476, EspressoPatronum wrote:I'm not as sure about my Gamma read anymore. I'll revisit it tonight.
@Gamma, if you get the chance today, could you link me some of your scum games?-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
You said the same thing in Ruby Mafia about my lurker post. Plot twist - 2 of the 4 lurkers in that game were scum! Not ALL lurkers are mafia, but I would say there's a greater than random chance of lurkers being scum.In post 481, Lil Uzi Vert wrote: [..]
Lurking isn’t AI. I know there are many players like EP who think it is but until he can tell me how I’m manipulating the game state in my favor by intentional doing it, that point is basically invalid. [...]
As stated to you in Ruby Mafia, the scum team doesn't have just 1 objective. Some manipulate the game state while others try to make it to the end game. Lurker is a means of achieving the latter.
Or you could be proactive and expand on your reads without being asked.[..]
He calls my reads weak but never attempts to ask me about them. Not once did he ask me to expand.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
@Alch who's your fifth btw? I did a quick check and I think you're at Alch, RCMA, NC and EP.
@Spangled can you tell me more about your GREAT addition? Who would you consider swapping for the 5th position + who are you deadset on not including?
@RCMA what does your updated coalition look like?
@Hectic if you were forced to not include yourself in the coalition, who would you pick?-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
Yeah, we clutched it out on mechanics.In post 484, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Didn’t town end up winning that game?
One of the lurkers subbed out + we caught the other one bcz of his lurking and a few other things.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
Yes plz.In post 480, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Still want this?In post 476, EspressoPatronum wrote:I'm not as sure about my Gamma read anymore. I'll revisit it tonight.
@Gamma, if you get the chance today, could you link me some of your scum games?
I tried doing it myself, but you've played a ton of games + I didn't feel like sifting through all of them. I called it quits after like 4 games-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
The way I see it, most of the debate is over 1 slot.In post 506, NC 39 wrote:We have just a little over 3 days and so far, we don’t have a consensus. How are we going to get 5 people aboard on the same 5 reads, if people aren’t willing to agree on any 5 slots?
Almost every coalition has EP, NC, RCMA, and Spangled. I feel quite good about that core 4, but the big question is who to put at the 5th.
Contenders appear to be: Hectic, Alch, and GREAT. Anyone with those people in their coalition (myself included re: Hectic) seems willing to change with some convincing.-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
@Spamgled
I won't have time to address your questions point by point until later tonight. Will get to it then.
Some quick notes:
- the formality of some of my posts is perhaps due to my area of study + work. Some of those posts you linked look like the way I structure some emails.
- the paranoia is normal. Almost every player in nsg's game was convinced the coalition would fail + were thus paranoid. (*remind me later to find the scum pairings post by Almost50 -- we may be able to use his logic here).-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019
-
-
EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: May 24, 2019