Mini Normal 2098 - Game Over! (Mafia Won)

[profii]

Hi

Special hi to Billy Pilgrim, supporter of the best football team in Europe

[profii]

I'm being /s by the way. That joke is the

biggest pile of garbage I've read on this site so far.

Welp if you thought that was bad your going to enjoy going down the rabbit hole we call mafia scum.

Wow, not even an apology? I’m sorry, but you’re going to have to be lynched for that. ;(
VOTE: Garmr

Crikey

Do we still do RVS here because that was a fast route out of it

[profii]

What am I accusing you of exactly ?

[profii]

Like I know you were playing with Garmr

But you said in post 15 "you will have to be lynched

for that

"

That infers a reason for the vote
Might be a silly fun reason but it wasnt random

[profii]

That's a debate for another day. It has its place as rubbish as it is

[profii]

I'll just UNVOTE: for now. Would like to see more of what people has to say before i start placing votes. That's more my style anyway.

Who's the scummiest so far though

[profii]

Like I know you were playing with Garmr

But you said in post 15 "you will have to be lynched

for that

"

That infers a reason for the vote
Might be a silly fun reason but it wasnt random

Is it your position that votes during RVS should be completely random? I feel like him giving a reason for the vote was better than switching it with no discussion.

If so:
1)how would we ever move out of RVS short of setting a deadline; and
2) what information would you hope to glean from truly random votes?

Not a fan of Norweigenboy's defensive tone, and definitely not a fan that he unvoted when getting pressure for voting.

Maybe for like the first 3 votes where literally nothing has happened


someone once called it the 'low information voting stage' which i liked and thats the reason i just probed at Norge's vote just to see if he reacted in any major way but i dont think he did

[profii]

there's also the possibility he's mafia attempting to get a early outing of a townie

What does that bit mean? Why would mafia out a towns person? They know who town are and revealing townsfolk to the rest of the townsfolk would put them at a disadvantage.

I'm guessing I've misunderstood what you mean there

[profii]

Game is already out of RVS after a few posts 'cause of Norwegian.

Also, I'm getting a bad feeling about Billy's V/LA. I've been a player of this game for like years already and I've seen mafia abuse the V/LA as an excuse to avoid everyone. I'm not a big fan of people going on V/LAs.

So Luca and BIlly is on V/LA. Like what I've said, V/LAs are sometimes not genuine.

It's kinda notable that you say the game is out of RVS, ergo there is content to debate upon

Yet you focus on VLA abuse which is basically a technicality- particularly as you have picked on one player who is posting and another player who has said his VLA will last 1 day

[profii]

I wanna know if Mohab has any further thoughts on anything yet. Talk to me dude

[profii]

Not a fan of Norweigenboy's defensive tone, and definitely not a fan that he unvoted when getting pressure for voting.

I was looking at Skellen and it lead me back to this.

If you are scum and someone unvotes due to pressure, i dont think you out that someone malleable to the entire group - i think you just say to yourself / the scum PT - look guys, if we pressure this guy he will do this or that, use that for later.

so i actually think this comes across as towny without meaning to.

[profii]

Not a fan of Norweigenboy's defensive tone, and definitely not a fan that he unvoted when getting pressure for voting.

Not a fan of this. I dislike how you are obviously not feeling good about Norwegianboy yet you are hesitant to increase the pressure on him with not voting him?

VOTE: Billy

But yeah the reason I was looking at that particular post was this one - this reason for voting seems like 'too good to be true' or 'too textbook'

I dont know how to articulate it but if i wanted to lay a vote down and give a reason that made me look town, I'd look for something like this which is a pretty irrefutable under the radar reason... so I'm gonna call it a double bluff and...

VOTE: Skellen

[profii]

Ok, fully caught up. My early reads are as follows:

Town-leaning Billy, Profii and Norwegianboy, null on everyone else.

I know I said her opening was decent in 94, but looking back it almost seems a little too 'polished', so I'm gonna sheep Profii on this one.

VOTE: Skellen

High 5 brother

[profii]

Can you explain the slayers gambit for the uninducted please? I have no idea what that means sorry.

[profii]

I don't think I need to go to indepth with the town read since I think it's the common opinion.

what made you think that?

[profii]

I googled slayers gambit and google took me to the wiki on this very site

You've mentioned it twice but it seems you dont believe it yourself, Garmr.

[profii]

1. Someone help me with the current site meta, it's been a while since I played - There was certainly a time where scum manipulated VLA a lot, but this game has some examples of people calling out that scum-meta and now we've almost evolved into a new meta where people are targetting the "caller outers" because they are aiming for low hanging fruit... Is that now a thing site wide, or is that something that is just happening here? I could check but I'd be interested in what my fellow players think is happening there...

2. @Skellen - I dont think we would reasonably expect a rush wagon to go through (again, been a while), so if it was me, I'd keep something like that to myself to perhaps manipulate things later. Even if we were to push a lynch through a bit more, it's going to go to L-1, claim, potential weird claim, new wagon, etc. I acknowledge I am putting my logic into someone elses posts I suppose.

3. @Garmr, I think we've crossed paths before, would you say you are: Good at reading me previously / unsure or not enough info / typically reading me badly in the past?
3b. conflict of mind and heart is fair enough.

In terms of the luca/skellen thing. I'm probably offering a unique perspective on this one. I made the point that Skellen might be making a double bluff via that 'so perfect' vote that comes over towny - Now I play this game in a quite decisive way, this vote could have been legit textbook "I've spotted a push without a vote, thats scummy I'll vote it" and admittedly I probably went for the outsider bet by calling it a double bluff. The point is, whilst I am contemplating that, I've got those 2 thoughts running accross my mind and I've picked one.

Now then we have luca who literally said they couldnt articulate it and I said it was a tricky one to articulate but I'm figuring here because it's an outsider bet or whatever you leave it, but then when he see's me mentioning it, Luca thinks well maybe I am on to something...

So I dont see Luca as scum, I think maybe it's just an communication issue.



That being said, it's now page 5 and there is a bit more from Skellen - looking at 116 Skellen continues to pick at people who say one thing and do another, so that might just be her style which lowers the odds of my outsider rationale vote

UNVOTE:

interesting

[profii]

See I'm siding with Luca here

When you said popular opinion is profii = town I actually checked and 3 people had put me, let's say, the town side of the line... one of those 3 was Luca, who you (garmr) scum read at the time so at that point alarm bells were ringing that you actually just knew I was town (I.e. TMI) and rolled with it

That's why I was asking about how well you think you can read me

The only thing stopping me voting you right now is you say you omitted the reasons you think I'm town (tell me about them please) for a reaction test (tell me what you learnt please)

I dont like the PR stuff either but the less said the better

Lucas just town as far as I'm concerned we see the game very similarly so I'm gonna roll with that

[profii]

See I'm siding with Luca here

When you said popular opinion is profii = town I actually checked and 3 people had put me, let's say, the town side of the line... one of those 3 was Luca, who you (garmr) scum read at the time so at that point alarm bells were ringing that you actually just knew I was town (I.e. TMI) and rolled with it

That's why I was asking about how well you think you can read me

The only thing stopping me voting you right now is you say you omitted the reasons you think I'm town (tell me about them please) for a reaction test (tell me what you learnt please)

I dont like the PR stuff either but the less said the better

Lucas just town as far as I'm concerned we see the game very similarly so I'm gonna roll with that

If you want to vote me go for it no need to hold back. I'm fine with making luca and me the leading wagons. But if I end up mislynched somehow Sheep my opinions as they are better than yours if you town read Luca.

I'll circle back to this later.

[profii]

My gut feeling is that Garmr comes across like he is really focused on Luca so scum are just letting him whip up a storm of useless arguments

Luca is town too by that logic but I am confident of that anyway

I'm leaning billy town on page 7

But I'm going to go look at the rest of the players as my gut feeling without checking/ analysing is we now have lurk scum despite me making a point about players using vla to make votes

I'm looking at you Norge/Skellen/mohab/Kraeg/flippy

[profii]

I'd like to see those 5 players take a stance on Luca vs Garmr and I will accept any of SvS, SvT, TvT as long as it comes with a rationale

[profii]

Because...?

[profii]

I mean why are they both town
And
Why are we pressuring kraeg

[profii]

I don't know for sure, like i said already. It could be a SvT scenario. It's just that i feel more confident going against Kraeg right how. His posts and reason for voting me just doesn't feel right.

so you want me to follow you onto voting Kraeg because it "just doesn't feel right"

you can't say anything about the Luca vs Garmr bit other than it's probably TvT but could be SvT

poor show tbh

VOTE: Norwegianboy

[profii]

Vote Garmr

I think the PR discussion is scummy. Even if he did it in a game where he's town, that doesn't prove the he's town in this game. It's not like we are in point where PRs have flipped and there is a necessity to discuss scenarios about PRs. The way he tried to identify me as a PR is scummy. A PR discussion would most likely come from scum. Why? because they're the one who's going to look for potential PRs for their nightkill so there's definitely a tendency for scum to open PR discussions. Town would most likely focus on finding scum especially on D1.

Just because I just voted Norge, dont consider yourself off the hook, I asked a specific group of people, which included you, to provide their thoughts on the Luca vs Garmr argument.

Whilst you have said Garmr is more likely to be scum, you've cited the reason that he mentioned PRs but not mentioned anything about Luca.

Give me more man!

[profii]

How do you feel about Luca?

Is your read of Kraeg changed?

I feel like I was focused trying to find a lead that I just built something on Luca solely based on just trying to find a lead, so looking back I don't think my point was very convincing.

As for Kraeg, the time you posted I still had a slight scum lean on him. After his latest posts, though, I feel like they're far too dynamic with their thoughts/posting and I have an even larger scum lean on him now. Kraeg tells Norwegian to 'forgot about his vote on him because it's just an RVS thing' but his posts earlier imply that he was much more serious about this than he's stating now. Also, I feel like the move to Garmr is far too sudden and invited by the fact that others started the Garmr wagon, but honestly that could be said for multiple players here, I guess.

I haven't really delved into the possibility of a Garmr + Kraeg scum team, on the surface from what I remember it looks a bit unlikely but not impossible.

For the time being I'll go back to VOTE: Kraeg as I feel more confident with a push on him than Garmr with what we have now.

why have you gone from saying Garmr was possibly caught scum to just forgetting about it and voting someone else?

Though I kind of see your logic on Kraeg, I'd be keen to hear more about Garmr and your caught scum comment - also if you have any thoughts on the 1v1 ?

[profii]

@Profii
Also i never said i wanted you to follow my vote. Which you seem to suggest in post 188.
Not sure why you thought that.

You vote someone because you want to lynch someone

You need a majority to lynch someone

So if you logically want to lynch someone you need people to follow

So youd need me plus others to follow your reasons

But if that's wrong you are voting for someone you dont want to lynch, which is stupid and not the point of the game

[profii]

Wow you’re really persistent on me bothering to analyze everything those goobers said aren’t you Profii? Fine i’ll analyze it deeply when i get back home.

Yep - it helps if people post more, there is a lot of ~I just feel like this is scummy~ in this game which is rubbish

[profii]

I doubt either of these two are town.

"I doubt either of these two are scum"
^Corrected mistake.

Agreed - thanks for you contribution

[profii]

I get it but if people dont comment on stuff and offer opinions it's hard to sort people so you will also need to get used to me - I'm very demanding;)

[profii]

I'm working on the basis of 2 because that's what the newbie games were

[profii]

I think you guys will just have to learn to deal with the way i am. Most of my posts are reactive and i usually only point out things that stick out to me. I read everything people say here but i can't be bothered to add my comments to absolutely everything. If you guys think that's scummy then by all means lynch me. If i get mislynched as town in like 5 games maybe people will begin to understand that this is just my personality and it is usually not alignment indicative.

I want you to think about this post. You're basically recognizing that you're playing in a way that the group perceives as bad because you keep getting lynched. Yet your response to that is for the group to change it's perception of you. Why should we? If you keep playing badly, you're either scum or bad town. Why would we want you in LYLO? You're a potential liability there. So if you keep playing badly, the solution from a town perspective is to policy lynch you. That means we Lynch you D1. And we do that because we know it's bad to have you in late game situations. So while you think the site will just have to adjust to you, you may not like the way it adjusts to you. Please stop playing so reactively and start reading. I saw your reads list, care to develop that at all?

I think we are some way off even considering policy lynching players - we cant give up on scum hunting that easily

[profii]

Ha ha

I started asking you about stuff mainly because of the comment you made along the lines of I'm town because of the flow of the game. I wanted you to admit there wasnt much really to read me on to reaffirm my view that you made me town because TMI rather than any legitimate read but it became a game of holding our cards close to our chests

At the moment I think you have some unfounded bold certainty in your read of luca but I think it comes from town as i dont think a scum player keeps going at it like you have with no one following

[profii]

I dont think shirk responsibility is the right description. It was his first vote on the first page and in the actual post 24 he said he was sheeping Garmr, so one could argue he had already shirked the responsibility by not coming up with a reason and just sheeping someone...

It was RVS though so making a mountain out of a molehill comes to mind

[profii]

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim

[profii]

I'll caveat this with it is arguably pre-flip associatives and as much as people tend not to like them, i dont have a problem with them as much as usual

When I read through your iso, you go from kinda indirectly defending Kraeg, to then saying he is null (which on it's own was a surprise) then there was a point you said you wanted to vote him, just for inactivity, which, firstly I've gone over my issues with policy voting and secondly, this was someone you were earlier saying was trying to sort the game so, not really prime candidate for a PL, given the numerous inactive players.

Admittedly, you didn't vote him - however, because I've got this pre-flip narrative in my brain my brain was saying well you dont want to vote your pal.

I can get the quotes etc if you really want but I'll just leave it at that for now.

Kinda just wondered how you'd react to a naked vote.

[profii]

UNVOTE: Mohab

No need to be on a vanity wagon. Felt like turning up the pressure on the Kraeg wagon may help sort, but the Garmr/Luca 1v1 produced some interesting content.

I will have some thoughts on this later.

When I skimmed it, Luca felt town. Wanna go back through the isos though.

I read the bold bit as "No need to [leave my vote on Mohab, as it is] a vanity wagon. Felt like turning up the pressure on the Kraeg wagon may help sort [that inactive slot], but the Garmr/Luca 1v1 produced some interesting content [so can convieniently vote 1 of those 2 {Garmr} as I know they are both town players, meaning I dont have to get stuck on scum wagon]


I am aware this is very pre-flippy kraeg/billy scum team.

I also note your distinct change in buddying tone from red block to oh you are mis repping me. I dont think I am. Based on the following:

50: So he's [kraeg] getting scumread by two people because he came in trying to sort? I don't know that I agree with Kraeg's reasoning, but points for trying. - this is you querying someone attacking Kraeg, white knighting, if you will

62 making sure someone is/isnt scum reading kraeg

70 i felt like because kraeg comes in and makes a point about your VLA, even though, as i mentioned at the time, you were actually posting (and have been doing so a lot more than he has) it was a good cop/bad cop act - i mean, we can vote kraeg together at this point if you want?

71 again querying people who have an issue with the vla point, again white knighting if you will

73 giving kudos to garmrs "slayers gambit" theory - i.e. acknowledging there is something scummy about him, despite never having expressed this yourself, whilst also giving momentum to a theory from Garmr that Kraeg isnt actually scum.

I am guessing you are going to say I've got that all wrong, because despite what I am reading as white knighting, you said Kraeg is null/need more info in 92 ? I just find it a weird progression on your part...

ok so 109 does offer some motivation for that. You call it shading and your exception to the vla stuff is consistent with 71


and ok I'm bored of getting all the post numbers and linking them back but here is the crux of the issue:

there is an element of a white knight vibe coming across as i've highlighted above
there is also a consistent explaination that you acknowledge the surface level scummy-ness of Kraeg and are probing the voters to see who goes where

given those voters have dissapeared I think it's probable i am off the mark and you are actually sorting so I'll unvote

UNVOTE:

I'll even try and summon EFN with you

VOTE: emporer flippy nips

[profii]

Also, theory question what value do pre-flip associatives have if you don't have the flip? Although I guess I like the thought because that is part of what I was referring to when I said there were two reasons I could see scum!Garmr taking the air out of the Kraeg wagon. But I had a second reason which is why I asked Garmr the question about how many people he thought were gonna scumread Kraeg when he took the air out of that wagon.

To be honest, it's still early but Kraeg is still in my D1 Lynch pool. At the moment, I think it's him, Mohab, and Emperor. Skellen Garmr and you are out at the moment. Norwegian and Luca are sort of in a territory where I may be able to be talked into them.

obviously as scum are informed i think they will surely give away signals even if they try their hardest not to so i dont mind taking the gamble on trying to spot team work pre-flip

[profii]

also what makes Skellen clear of your lynch pool?


I am thinking norweigan is trying to sort the game so i dont want to lynch him and i doubt a luca lynch will go through today

[profii]

Profii, if you’ve started coming around to the idea that Kraeg might be scum i suggest you vote him first rather than probing for his potential teammate (s) on day 1. I read on the wiki scum-hunting tactics, and it’s stated that scum team speculation is not much use until the suspects lynch has gone through and flip has confirmed alignment.
Though i commend you for trying.

Well the theory only works with a billy kraeg pairing and I've reconsidered billy

Kraeg is in the needs to post more camp

[profii]

Well I played with you in a boonytoonz game where we were both scum and you died n1 after a relatively inactive say 1 so bear that in mind...

[profii]

Actually you might have been lynched day 1

Either way... more content please

[profii]

I agree that you can attempt to spot team work pre-flip, but in that case would you want to Lynch the one who you thought was the teammate or the one who you thought was scummy first?

The issue with that is that Kraeg has done nothing much really, so nothing to make me go 'that dude is sorting the game he is town' or 'that dude is up to schenanigans he must be scum'
Simultaneously, can't rule him out being scum due to this lack of anything beyond looking at Norge so my thought was let's just say he turns out to be scum the way i described your posts made sense at first, although i guess i didnt fully digest everything and I probably am getting a bit bored of waiting for people so I'm looking for things that aren't really there


that being said, between my last post and now, Kraeg has been back and posted 267

to me that reads that he doesnt want to help us scum hunt, that makes it harder to kill scum and more likely a towny will get mislynched and then killed over night so I am just going to check the VC and I think I'll be putting Kraeg at L-1 in a minute...

[profii]

VOTE: Kraeg

This is L-1 - please be careful!

[profii]

UNVOTE:

I want to go through why flippynips thinks mohab has been bussing for ages and I dont want a hammer to happen if Kraeg jumps in with a claim before we've gone through that bit first because this seems weird

[profii]

So looking at the 2 isos together...

It seems like mohab and kraeg both want to game game after the one by one and if you are arguing they are both scum then maybe you say they dont both want to be on the wagon that's just derived from the first major 1v1 so they revert back to voting each other (distancing perhaps?)

Which all sounds good but I think it's more likely that when they both ended up on garmr whoever moved off first probably thought if I'm voting with the other I'm wrong on garmr as if they are a scum pair they'd be a bit more conscious of what each other were doing

So now i feel like flippynips hasn't thought through this intent - or has he - intent will create a claim which is handy for scum at least or if my narrative is right then we just mislynch kraeg

But yeah this needs discussion

[profii]

Kraeg, you're at L-1. Someone who isn't on your wagon at the moment gave intent already when you were at L-1. You've seemed pretty uncommitted to the game. You planning on defending yourself, or have you given up?

This is important actually

We have 4 on wagon. Flippy and myself were (are?) Still willing to vote once we thrash it out

That is 6/9 - what does this mean? Few scenarios:

1. Scum team is within {Kraeg / Luca / Billy} as all other players have recently been on the wagon (I haven't checked the 2 ISOs for scum reads on Kraeg either so there is that)

2. As per Billy post, Kraeg has literally given up and scum are either already bussing or showing an intent to bus (if it's me or flippy for sake of thoroughness)

3. We are wrong and kraeg town


I'm leaning towards 2 but 3 keeps pinging in my mind because when you are lynching scum obviously scum resist and with so many people circling above Kraeg I wonder if we are straying from 2 to 3

[profii]

I have seen scum just give up day 1 before which is what's making me think we are right here and then if we are right odds are someone is already voting so just to be clear

Intent subject to some more discussion on this

[profii]

It doesn't
Point 1 is literally everyone interested in lynching kraeg is town, the scum pool is you 3 and the story ends happily ever after

[profii]

Kraeg, you're at L-1. Someone who isn't on your wagon at the moment gave intent already when you were at L-1. You've seemed pretty uncommitted to the game. You planning on defending yourself, or have you given up?

This is important actually

We have 4 on wagon. Flippy and myself were (are?) Still willing to vote once we thrash it out

That is 6/9 - what does this mean? Few scenarios:

1. Scum team is within {Kraeg / Luca / Billy} as all other players have recently been on the wagon (I haven't checked the 2 ISOs for scum reads on Kraeg either so there is that)

2. As per Billy post, Kraeg has literally given up and scum are either already bussing or showing an intent to bus (if it's me or flippy for sake of thoroughness)

3. We are wrong and kraeg town


I'm leaning towards 2 but 3 keeps pinging in my mind because when you are lynching scum obviously scum resist and with so many people circling above Kraeg I wonder if we are straying from 2 to 3

What’s making you think that billy could be scum?

No I'm just saying there is a lot of people wanting to lynch kraeg so thinking that through you are unlikely to have 6 players with a perfect scum read on day 1 so there is actually more likely to be a busser than scum!billy

But also you have to just factor in it's possible 6 people are wrong, given 2 might be wrong on purpose

[profii]

If Kraeg town= Mohab sus
If Kraeg scum= Billy sus.

Either a town victory or good information on who’s scum. Win-win.

I dont like this post at all

[profii]

gonna UNVOTE: for now because I believe that's we're supposed to do?

I don't know whether to award this explicit invocation of what we're supposed to do town points or scum points, but it feels more like scum trying to avoid scrutiny for the unvote.

I dont like this post.

It comes over as someone who doesn't know what to do

I was going to say to Mohab something like:

It's up to you, you obviously wanted to vote Kraeg for a reason, so if you believe those reasons were right and this claim is false you dont ~have~ to unvote
But you better have a damn good reason for pushing it

and I dont think there is one given how little Kraeg is playing

[profii]

oh and just to be specific, not counter claiming

[profii]

Kraeg, you're at L-1. Someone who isn't on your wagon at the moment gave intent already when you were at L-1. You've seemed pretty uncommitted to the game. You planning on defending yourself, or have you given up?

This is important actually

We have 4 on wagon. Flippy and myself were (are?) Still willing to vote once we thrash it out

That is 6/9 - what does this mean? Few scenarios:

1. Scum team is within {Kraeg / Luca / Billy} as all other players have recently been on the wagon (I haven't checked the 2 ISOs for scum reads on Kraeg either so there is that)

2. As per Billy post, Kraeg has literally given up and scum are either already bussing or showing an intent to bus (if it's me or flippy for sake of thoroughness)

3. We are wrong and kraeg town


I'm leaning towards 2 but 3 keeps pinging in my mind because when you are lynching scum obviously scum resist and with so many people circling above Kraeg I wonder if we are straying from 2 to 3

I'm just going to revisit my theory here because I believe the claim as I already felt like too many people wanted that lynch.

That means we have a player list as follows:




Now I'm making the assumption I Kraeg is town, so I can remove him and myself from the analysis here on in:.

So i've split the remaining people into 2 camps:

No interest in voting:
3) Luca Blight
9) Billy Pilgrim

At some point interested in voting:
1) Mohab500
2) Skellen
4) Garmr
5) Emperor FlippyNips
7) NorwegianboyEE


so let's consider as the newbie game is 2v7, until we kill 2 scum and the game doesnt end, I'll assume we are too. So, would we expect to see 2 scum within a pile of 5 players trying to get Kraeg to go through? Given Kraeg wasn't oozing town, I dont think scum would feel the need to do so, therefore, let's consider the scum team being split across the 2 groups:

I went back to my 'stream of consciousness post' regarding Billy on Kraeg 237 - I initially thought that scum!billy was defending scum!kraeg but it turns out billy had communicated a certain scummyness about Kraeg so there is a risk that Billy is positioning himself somewhere where he could say Kraeg is town or scum and not draw a high level of scrutiny. This is a problem.

But let's compare that to Luca - looking through the ISO, Luca barely comments on Kraeg, addressing a specific read only once and says "feels naturally scummy to me" but there is little content here

If the cookie crumbled and we were voting off wagon, I'd be picking Billy because his content in respect to Kraeg already alarmed me but I dont think that this the sensible play today so I will park this analysis and look on wagon a bit more...



Garmr seems an interesting one to go first,
I immediately recall Garmr saying Kraeg might have been puling a slayers gambit, ergo inferring Kraeg was probably town. So the first thing I want to consider is why was he on this wagon in the first place? Let's look:
first thing that strikes me is very early in the game Garmr considered Kraeg may have a PR...
He then gets into it with Luca and I'll not drag that back up, defends himself against Billys vote...
Ultimately he 're reads flippy' then votes Kraeg to L-1 him again.
The latest read list was Luca!scum, kraeg!null-scum, EFN!null - so whilst I acknowledge that no one was going for luca and your vote has to go somewhere, I am not sure how the reread enables the Kraeg vote - it strikes me a little bit of L-1 to get the claim out which is obviously scummy...


Mohab next,
So there isn't much to go on but there I'm actually ok with this slot:
he picks up Garmr is scummy for the similar reasons i mentioned above so i like that.
i looked at some of mohabs previous play, i could find 1 scum game and his posting is distinctly more wall post-y compared to this/his past games so i am actually going to give him a meta tick in the town box there (only because there is so little to go on)
overall it's kinda what i'd expect from a relatively new player but the points above aren't making me vote here really...

Skellen,
i think in the majority of skellens posts there is clear thought on how to process each subject she is talking about, this is just oozing town and I'm too lazy to say much more as it seems a bit pointless given how obvious it is ha. So that's all you're getting right now.

EFN,
ok so EFN is crusing for the early parts of this game which is a worry
He also says he struggles to read Skellen when he usually can which is really at odds with what I just said so that is a problem for me.
He also puts Kraeg at L-1 with no real prior exception to the slot, this is a red flag
I really dont like the post where EFN says he just wants a kill 304

ok so that's a slot for vote consideration...

Finally, Norge,
he is consistently scum reading Kraeg all through the day, my issue with this is that Kraeg never really posted enough content to warrant such a 'grudge like' long term scum read (imo) so i could never understand it. I think Norge has shown he plays the game more 'off the cuff' and we'd never expect him to go back through iso/old games to find out more info so it's a bit what you see is what you get - he kinda summarises some of the other events in the game such as the 1v1 so it shows he is paying attention but i think he is just the type of person i never read well... If i advocated for his lynch it would be policy so I'd need other to convince me here...



so in conclusion, I think I need to make my mind up between Garmr and EFN and it is almost a coin toss tbh.

Gonna go for

VOTE: EFN

[profii]

Oh never mind you split them into 2 groups for some other reason.

Yeah- if we believe the claim and Kraeg is town, as I have said there was a lot of people pushing him, ergo scum dont need to risk having 2 players on the wagon

Ergo scum in {billy/luca} imo likely billy, but there wont be appetite for off wagon voting today so I'm not going to make a big deal for now

[profii]

No offence but all the unvotes on kreag seems like a noob thing to do. Like his probably claimed his real role but his scum which is why he took so long to actually claim because he was deciding to claim his real role or not. Town kreag would of claimed straight away.

yeah thats a good point i hadnt considered to be fair

[profii]

It's Kraeg + Garmr.

VOTE: Kraeg

So you decided to remove your vote, as did nearly the entire wagon, but then you have decided that Garmrs point is valid but he is also scum at the same time?

Explain?

[profii]

Well tell us more

[profii]

sigh another game with legit bad town desicions this is demotivating

We will circle back to this one as well when the time is right

[profii]

I didn't want to counter claim but I guess I have to since your all dumb as bricks I'm town jail keeper.

Well this makes voting easier

[profii]

Correct. 1 of them is likely to be scum aligned if both their roles are true

I think on the balance of play, kraeg took ages to decide to claim because he was probably waiting to confer in the scum thread

Garmr hinted at his claim at the top of the last page and was too impatient to let more town people think it through so whilst he called us all stupid it's more logically that he is the town one in this 1v1

[profii]

EFN,
ok so EFN is crusing for the early parts of this game which is a worry
He also says he struggles to read Skellen when he usually can which is really at odds with what I just said so that is a problem for me.
He also puts Kraeg at L-1 with no real prior exception to the slot, this is a red flag
I really dont like the post where EFN says he just wants a kill 304

ok so that's a slot for vote consideration...


VOTE: EFN

putting Kraeg at L-1 is fasho misrep. I never voted him, I said I had intent. pretty sure I’ve voted one time, not including RVS
i'm pretty sure I was saying how I don’t have a read on Skellen shows how disassociated I am from the game
& yeah Skellen may be oozing town to you doesn’t mean I have to feel the same that you do, Im not trying to set anything up I have simply been trying to say that I feel distant from the game & me not having a read on Skellen shows it. its could also be its been awhile since I played with her so im not quick to get a read cos she’s evolved but idk. which it is. it could be all the above

i got confused by the post you did a vote tag but just said intent - my bad, just a mistake not a misrep (at least no intentionally - sorry !)

shame you are disassociated from the game - i hope you get involved. It would be good to have some more things to consider

[profii]

Then let's vote him Profii.

VOTE: Kraeg

will do just want to check something - no one hammer before I said I have completed my check please! this is important!!!

[profii]

I think it doesn't make sense to Lynch outside of those two since there's basically a CC. I think whichever claimed pr doesn't get lynched should tell us in advance who they are going to target. If the claimed pr gets NKd it gives us a confirmed inno, because the rules for a mini normal is only 2 scum members.

If we agreed to that, I'd no kill if i was scum. I vote we roll the dice and hope Garmr comes through the night.

[profii]

I think it doesn't make sense to Lynch outside of those two since there's basically a CC. I think whichever claimed pr doesn't get lynched should tell us in advance who they are going to target. If the claimed pr gets NKd it gives us a confirmed inno, because the rules for a mini normal is only 2 scum members.

If we agreed to that, I'd no kill if i was scum. I vote we roll the dice and hope Garmr comes through the night.

That's why I didn't say there's be a confirmed guilty on whoever he targeted. But if he does, we'd have a confirmed inno. I don't think my logic was that complicated so I don't know why you wouldn't want a confirmed inno out of a dead jk. And btw this also only works if kraeg flips scum, because otherwise they could push the kill to the other member.

JK stops the scum kill action right?

So if Garmr targets scum!XXX and XXX decides to no kill, who is conf inno?

I'm missing something?

[profii]

VOTE: kraeg

You probably dont want to JK me but feel free if that makes you feel better

[profii]

UNVOTE:

didnt think of the self hammer

[profii]

UNVOTE:

didnt think of the self hammer

Did you miss the post where we had discussed it?

i knew i was l-1 so luca wanted and had a chance to post a catch up - I'm sure everyone else can exercise restraint - plus if someone does say you know what I'm hammering, well guess what that means so it was a (half) calculated choice but i didnt think (or note a point about...) self hammer

[profii]

we should just not say who is going to be jailed. period.

if you say it's the scum person, they will just no kill and then we will be like are they innos? are they scum? it proves nothing. It's better for it to be a surprise.

[profii]

we should just not say who is going to be jailed. period.

if you say it's the scum person, they will just no kill and then we will be like are they innos? are they scum? it proves nothing. It's better for it to be a surprise.

Man, I'm feeling like the logic on this is so simple that I don't get why you would oppose this. Sure, if they don't kill then we get no info, but then we can no lynch and run it again. But if he doesn't say who he's jailing, or lies about it, he could die then we'd know nothing.

I think I may now see a non-scum reason youd say this, but I think the likelihood of it is low.

Shit, I can't figure this out, can you explain why him not using this to give us a conf!inno is not the best play?

I'm inno child tomorrow regardless of night action so I'm not desperate to inno someone. Obviously I'll clear that up tomorrow

I'd rather keep it secret, hope.garmr targets someone scummy, we get a no kill so there is some chance it's a scum hit and go from there

I get inno'd tomorrow and the scum pool gets narrower and narrower anyway

All good

[profii]

. This is obviously a soft,

Or is it

<_<

>_>

<_<

[profii]

. This is obviously a soft,

Or is it

<_<

>_>

<_<

Look, if you're confirmed tomorrow, as you suggest, great. If you're not and Garmr dies and we don't know for sure who he checked, then I'm coming for you. The one thing I can do well is strategy around mechanics, if you run this Gambit and we don't get a confirmed inno, then we blew our town pr for nothing.

Calm

Scum have a choice - kill garmr and his info or kill me and my inno status

If they believe me

We will deal with the rest tomorrow

[profii]

UNVOTE: Kreag

The reactions are strange this is strange. I want to think this through.

Kreag accepts me as a jailkeeper instead of pushing against my counter claim. He should be totally against me.

Mohab want both of us lynched saying we are scum together.

Billy is trying to justify both me and kreag as town.


I thought town was going to let lying scum off the hook so I lied about my role to push the lynch through but instead this weird shit is happening.

I don't mind taking the lynch today because It's my bad I shouldn't lie but I probably will in the future game because 50% of the time it works all the time.

Scenario one
Kreag is town
Mohab see's we are both town and wants to push through two mislynches because we counter claimed each other.

Scenario 2
Mohab is town
Kreag is scum and that's why he is so accepting of my role but Mohab thinks we are a scum team and I'm bussing him with a fake claim because his role pm.

Christ

I feel like kraeg is caught scum and dancing the dance of just seeing the day out, weakly pretending his town until he is lynched because he has no where to go, the only doubtful part is Kraeg has barely posted all game-day so whilst his output right now is minimal that has actually been consistent... when scum get caught they go into a mode of "come on guys I'm town" which is happening but that's all hes done all game so slightly odd

If scum team is mohab/kraeg why cant mohab just try and argue your claim is fake given the kraeg wagon died to try and save his pal? If kraeg is the scum pr, probably a risk worth taking given we are circling in on them both as good lynch candidates

Either way day 1 and 2 lynches are going to be Kraeg and Garmr unless we hit scum on day 1 at which point we review

Keep it simple I suggest

[profii]

The though running through my mind is Garmr

He said with bold certainty that Luca was scum, I doubt it
He lied to try and get the lynch he wanted

So he is not playing a team game - is he doing it because he thinks he is the smartest guy in the room (hint garmr, answer seems to be no at this point)

Or is he trying to push a mislynch

So let's think on that

A Kraeg mislynch infers kraeg!town and garmr,!scum - doesn't necessarily mean garmr JK as scum lie

Kraeg does have a low content play style that is easy to call scummy so is a good push for scum but if he flips town we would instantly lynch garmr tomorrow so youd have to be confident that your pal is deep wolf and happy to fend off about 3 lynches

I dont think anyone fits that bill

So I dont think Garmr is scum actually so i retract my point that we lynch him tomorrow - I was just annoyed at this idiocy

So the other scenario is that Kraeg AND garmr are both town. I'll consider that later

I think I need to come back with fresh eyes as I'm totally unimpressed by Garmrs antics

As Billy pointed out you one can soft to attract a NK, which I've obviously attempted to save a JK but for absolutely no reason at all other than garmr thinks he knows it all

Mad right now

[profii]

The though running through my mind is Garmr

He said with bold certainty that Luca was scum, I doubt it
He lied to try and get the lynch he wanted

So he is not playing a team game - is he doing it because he thinks he is the smartest guy in the room (hint garmr, answer seems to be no at this point)

Or is he trying to push a mislynch

So let's think on that

A Kraeg mislynch infers kraeg!town and garmr,!scum - doesn't necessarily mean garmr JK as scum lie

Kraeg does have a low content play style that is easy to call scummy so is a good push for scum but if he flips town we would instantly lynch garmr tomorrow so youd have to be confident that your pal is deep wolf and happy to fend off about 3 lynches

I dont think anyone fits that bill

So I dont think Garmr is scum actually so i retract my point that we lynch him tomorrow - I was just annoyed at this idiocy

So the other scenario is that Kraeg AND garmr are both town. I'll consider that later

I think I need to come back with fresh eyes as I'm totally unimpressed by Garmrs antics

As Billy pointed out you one can soft to attract a NK, which I've obviously attempted to save a JK but for absolutely no reason at all other than garmr thinks he knows it all

Mad right now

Seems kinda like a fake reason to be mad since your not a noob. People do worse shit on this site all the time get over it, it produced some decent reactions.

Honestly I don't think I'm the smartest guy in the room but I will gladly sell myself that way to push a gambit, if I actually thought I was the smartest guy I wouldn't of called it off due to stubbornness.

The pay off If kreag was scum I would of taken the bullet lynched scum and saved a potential power role. Also even now scum will find it hard to act appropriately in the chaos. A Chaos has caused many a scum to slip up because scum don't think like town, while it's easier for scum to adapt to a cookie cutter game, If a bombshell like this hits them they will find it harder and harder to mimic a natural town reaction.

You fail to understand me through and what I get out the game judging by your post. We are fundamentally different when it comes to mafia.

If people do worse shit I'd get mad at them too dont worry.

I think we have to consider Kraeg as town, which was what happened when the wagon died on him post claim anyway. The only reason it came back was you made a counter claim against a player that looks scummy to everyone.

We have the fact that Kraeg posted between my L-1 and unvote and no self hammer which helps me believe he is town.

You must realise if Kraeg flips town then you are the day 2 lynch. that means the game would probably be at 1v4 which is 3 lynches for your buddy. I dont see anyone in this game saying yeah I'll take that on - so I can't see you trading a PR for 1 of a 2 man team. That suggests you are town.


So then we have mohab who seemingly doesn't understand this counter claim situation. I didnt really want to meta dive but I feel like I need to go check if Mohab has previously displayed similar apparent incompetance in other scum games - if so I'd declare intent but it seems too good to be true at this point so I'm not jumping in with intent right now.



Your billy point is interesting though so if we need to take anything out of this epsiode it's that.
revisit 397 - Billy wants to be in the 'interested in voting kraeg' group but you have come in here and said Billy is trying to justify you and Kraeg as town - that's conflicting in itself.

Let's look at where billly went - initially he says it's a shame you outed yourself but draws up a lynch pool of you and Kraeg, who are both looking town now, so that's bad.
I think I have probably given Billy the oppurtunity to LAMIST by debating the scenarios of what to do with your JK power.
He wants me JK'd for being a leader - over - a suspicious slot - even though I advocated for a secret JK, I wouldnt do this.
448 again LAMIST
454 fishy
455 this is interesting - if billy flips scum we need to revisit this post, I know I'm town and I'm leaning garmr town, so if Kraeg flips town, Billy was happy to highlight at least 2 town players who were pushing town!kraeg, this looks like lining up mislynches to me.
457 this doesnt actually make sense, according to 457 mohab is in the scum pool so if kraeg flips town you potentially stop the nk but he really wants me in Jail - does billy believe I'm a PR? If we dont lynch billy and I die... you know what do...
458 "I make lylo" yeah well scum tend to... is how I am now reading that
464 fishy fishy



VOTE: billy

[profii]

Here is where I am at (ignore the order, just how I'm copy and pasting...)

8) Kraeg - town
3) Luca Blight - town
4) Garmr - town
6) profii - town

7) NorwegianboyEE - leaning town

2) Skellen - I'd like to see Skellens thoughts on the claim retract before EoD
5) Emperor FlippyNips - still needs to post more

1) Mohab500 - requires a meta review to see if that push on the cc people is typical or madness.

9) Billy Pilgrim - el scummo

[profii]

eh i just voted billy

[profii]

I also had a quick flick through of mohabs only scum game (at least that i can see)

Mohab posted loads and some good walls and stuff - polar opposite of this game, not to say opposite means must be town, but it says given mohab was an involved participant whilst scum I really really want to hear the logic behind the belief that Kraeg and Garmr are a scum team

I mean I think I know the answer but it's mental.

[profii]

eh i just voted billy

So you think billy being mad at me was genuine or not?

yeah my theory is he was on the verge of flipping town!Kraeg and you killed off the wagon.

I also think he thinks I'm a PR so I am not going to be nullified by you anymore given you are not a JK

[profii]

I can compromise on a mohab lynch subject to his answer on why he thinks you and kraeg are a scum team

until then the evidence sends me to Billy for now

[profii]

Go back and check. When I initially wanted you in jail, it was before you medium claimed a PR. And the one you claimed anyway sounded like IC. Don't know how putting you in jail at night would prevent that

tbh i just wanted to see if i could keep garmr alive because i thought his claim was right and he was worth drawing the night kill from

now he is retracting his claim i am just openly saying i was mucking about haha

[profii]

I was expecting Mohab to say that Kraeg and Garmr are a scum team because by counter claiming each other, we would obviously lynch one, then the survivor would be deemed town, given that both would flip scum (in his world)

So given that they both claimed PR and if they were both scum their continued survival would be highly suspect, I pre-empted this by calling my predication mental

but I guess now I will never know.

I really hope Mohab just realised he made a slip with that and decided to die quietly - not that it helps us find scum number 2 but getting 1 down is a good start


who knows.

[profii]

So the question I ask myself is did scum think I am faking a PR or am I just so wrong I'm dangerous to town?

But before I answer that, I'll go take a look at what Norge's suspects and see what we can take from that (RIP in pieces )

[profii]

also, Kraeg is maintaining his PR claim, so he should let us know who/if he roleblocked

@Mod - hypothetically speaking, of course, in a game where a town roleblocker existed, if he choose to roleblock the scum player who conducted the kill, would that stop the kill taking place? I thought not and it was just a JK that would stop that but help please?

[profii]

Idk I vaguely remember something along those lines and just checking

[profii]

I think I phone post over 95% of the time

It's the weekend which is one thing but we also have a relatively inactive player list which is another issue but hey ho


Looking back at Norgey boy his last few posts said he believed in Mohab which is kinda irrelevant for us moving forward

More to the point when I said let's keep it simple and vote Kraeg or Garmr he said yes let's go Kraeg

So obviously scum pick the kill so I want to kinda work out why, as that's just what i do but I'm a bit stuck as there are a few reasons:

1. By killing someone who recently voted Kraeg, do scum think we will revert back to a scum wagon?
2. Given the who PR thing, did they think Norgey boy was the real PR?
3. Given there may be some unknown protective/blocking PR did they throw a curveball to make sure it goes through
4. Did they intentionally aim at an active player to slow the game down and frustrate active town players?


Usually I'm quite decisive but I'm struggling to pick here
I dont think 1 and 4 would be the main reasons so I'm thinking a combo of 2/3 perhaps so I dont want to read too much into Kraeg on the basis of Norge dying


However... tbc, gonna grab some quotes

[profii]

...however...

A while back I pointed out a load of people were interested in voting Kraeg and if he is scum it would be unusual for so many players to have a matching scum read (especially without a slip of some kind)

Here is that list


1) Mohab500
2) Skellen
4) Garmr
5) Emperor FlippyNips
7) NorwegianboyEE

And also, here is the mohab wagon:

Mohab500 (5) - Billy Pilgrim, Kraeg, Luca Blight, Garmr, Mohab

We now know a couple of roles so let's cancel them out
Kraeg people:
Skellen
Garmr
EFN


Mohab people:
Billy
Kraeg
Luca
Garmr


Now the point here is not to go "look Garmr is always there!1!" At all

We dont know if Kraeg is scum so we dont know how likely scum are in the first 3 players
We know mohab was town so it is more likely that scum is in the 2nd pole
We should consider the claim/counterclaim scenario carefully to reassure ourselves garmr/kraeg is TvS as that will help


So let's do that last bit, particularly as Kraeg didn't die.
Firstly, duh, add a 5 to my list above "scum chose not to kill a PR claim to make town suspicious of his survival"

Obviously billy thinks a role blocker can stop the kill so if that's true scum either weren't scared of Kraeg or kraeg is scum - so if we decide hes town, let's look at his suspects to knock them off our lists

We then have Garmr who openly admitted to trying to force the lynch which I guess is understandable at the time but he also bottled it when in his mind weird things started happening

I think Garmrs point about not contesting the roles probably makes Kraeg more towny - for me kraeg has been fairly low profile so he is probably just sticking to what he knows (his own PM) and hoping the others will sort out Garmrs weird claim, allowing Kraeg to do his thing at night.

Now the whole act chapter of fake claiming then retracting. If you are scum I think you get away with pushing that lynch through and making up some JK stuff, worst case you slip on a PR but simultaneously out a PR so youd run with it, you wouldn't retract

So I'm kinda leaning TvT here

That means I'm looking at

Skellen
Flippy
-
Billy
Luca


This post is now long enough now...

[profii]

I want to hear from Skellen (though that will be after the weekend)

I can see Kraegs method of just trying to get his PR through the day and he seems to believe that a JK and RB would exist hence lack of fight

So does Skellen still consider Kraeg potential scum here


Obviously we can keep our fingers crossed that Kraeg aimed at someone and they then say their PR went through but we should be so lucky...

[profii]

heh well i am saved from the pain of a hangover as i was just about to grab a beer but there is pepsi closer so i settled for that... my laziness is a blessing and a curse.

Anyway we have business to deal with I hadn't considered the kill being on/off wagon actually. I over-focussed on it being on / off the PR claim I guess. But yes I agree with your notes about his reads. And thanks for the help with the RB thing - i dont know why I thought it didn't stop a kill, maybe i played a game with some similar-ish role, i dont know. It's been a while since i played.

So I take your point that I am looking at it one-dimensionally, although I would probably say, I acknowledge the other dimensions, I've just picked one that works best in how i sort the game out perhaps.
Anyway, i take your point that Kraeg was almost certainly gone and offered minimal resistance but 446 is the response of when Garmr offers scum!kraeg the chance to say 'aha, see I told you I was town, this guy must be scum' - instead he goes 'well these roles could co-exist so what's everyones problem?!'

Like if I am scum in that position and I can divert some votes to another slot, then I go for it, I dont just roll over again and invite the lynch even more. So I kinda believe that Kraeg thought there was probably 2 PRs in the game, ergo I town read.

I do want to hear his interpretation of things though before I go too far

[profii]

I'm coming round to the idea that Kraeg is scum
My worry is that if he flips town I'm going to think you (garmr) are scum so I'm worried scum have implanted a domino effect of mislynches in my brain and I just want to think it through before we go forward

[profii]

Can we get a kraeg prod ?

Done, as stated in the VC 4 posts before this one. -Mod

[profii]

So if you were going back to Kraeg and you also think scum killed norge to make Kraeg look suspicious, that simultaneously infers he is town

Once you've thought that through walk me through it

[profii]

So you are saying you think Kraeg is town here?

Who are you saying is scum

[profii]

So Kraeg maintains that there can be a Rb and a Jk but also notes I can be an Ic

He must think this is 9p role madness

I also think he doesn't want to guess his supposed rb target incase that player counter claims with an actual result

[profii]

@Skellen

501 - yep agree
369 - yep agree
505 - yep subject to him posting a weird reason but he self hammered instead
530 - indeed it was NAI

I couldn't really make head nor tail or garmr vs kraeg and I was probably scared of lynching the 1 PR between them, so I was kinda hoping mohab said something really scummy about kraeg/garmr to settle my mind that everyone else was right and my meta check was not as strong a reason to not vote compared to everyone on the wagons reason to vote

So a bit compromise and a bit avoiding risk of PR loss I guess but if he had said something logical I would have restrained and defended it too i guess

[profii]

So Kraeg maintains that there can be a Rb and a Jk but also notes I can be an Ic

He must think this is 9p role madness

I also think he doesn't want to guess his supposed rb target incase that player counter claims with an actual result

9p role madness,,,, with 2 VT flips

[profii]

And I thought profi will be confirmed as Inno Child today. I didn't see that happen.

To clarify I have to formally ask for my town status to be verified so ill just do that when people start to vote me

[profii]

And finally

VOTE: kraeg

[profii]

The latter

It's quite liberating knowing I can say what the hell I like and if anyone finds me scummy I can say well hey look I'm town -> boom

[profii]

I want people to not believe and vote me before I bother though, gives more info

[profii]

I want to see who pushes me

[profii]

Not particularly fussed for a mass claim. I'm confident in Garmr, Luca, Skellen so I only need to sort Billy/EFN/Kraeg.

If Kraep flips town by some miracle, I'd probably say mass claim is right just to make sure we deal with the questions over Garmr properly but dunno I think we are close to victory here.

[profii]

If you are pocketing me and letting town mislynch kraeg by apathetically letting us head towards it i will be quite unhappy, Skellen

[profii]

Can you take a stance on what you think is most likely here then

[profii]

Oh and I dont just mean the role claim stuff.
The mohab wagon just flew together at the end, do you think scum is in there? What's your guess

[profii]

The fact you are on verge of melt down does indicate you are town billy

[profii]

Urgh fine

Please confirm my role....

[profii]

Hard claiming mason

I said I became an IC tomorrow because we had an idea it would come to this and I'm essentially verified by another player (I was careful not to say mod confirmed)

There are a couple of minor bread crumbs and I specifically never scum read luca if anyone wants to check

[profii]

Yep

[profii]

Amusingly luca tried to copy my reads... it came across unnaturally and you picked up on it but I just had to support luca

[profii]

See I'm siding with Luca here

When you said popular opinion is profii = town I actually checked and 3 people had put me, let's say, the town side of the line... one of those 3 was Luca, who you (garmr) scum read at the time so at that point alarm bells were ringing that you actually just knew I was town (I.e. TMI) and rolled with it

That's why I was asking about how well you think you can read me

The only thing stopping me voting you right now is you say you omitted the reasons you think I'm town (tell me about them please) for a reaction test (tell me what you learnt please)

I dont like the PR stuff either but the less said the better

Lucas just town as far as I'm concerned we see the game very similarly so I'm gonna roll with that

If you want to vote me go for it no need to hold back. I'm fine with making luca and me the leading wagons. But if I end up mislynched somehow Sheep my opinions as they are better than yours if you town read Luca.

I'll circle back to this later.

I knew we'd be back at some point - I was really lol'ing my rofl off at this when it happened

[profii]

VOTE COUNT 1.7

Mohab500 (1) - Billy Pilgrim
Skellen (0) -
Luca Blight (2) - Garmr, Emperor FlippyNips
Garmr (0) -
Emperor FlippyNips (0) -
profii (0) -
NorwegianboyEE (1) - Kraeg

L-1

Kraeg (4) -

NorwegianboyEE, Mohab500,

Skellen,

profii

Billy Pilgrim (1) -

Not Voting:

Luca Blight

ACTIVITY NOTES:
Luca Blight is V/LA through Monday, Sept 9
Skellen has been prodded.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Friday, September 13th at 10:00 am PDT which is in

(expired on 2019-09-13 10:00:00)

VOTE COUNT 1.8

Mohab500

(1) - Billy Pilgrim
Skellen (0) -
Luca Blight (0) -
Garmr (0) -
Emperor FlippyNips (0) -
profii (0) -

NorwegianboyEE

(1) - Kraeg[/color]

L-1

Kraeg (4) -

NorwegianboyEE, Mohab500

, Skellen, Garmr
Billy Pilgrim (0) -

Not Voting:

Luca Blight

, Emperor FlippyNips,

profii

VOTE COUNT 1.13

L-1

Mohab500

(4) - Billy Pilgrim, Kraeg,

Luca Blight

,Garmr
Skellen (0) -
Luca Blight (0) -
Garmr (0) -
Emperor FlippyNips (0) -
profii (0) -
NorwegianboyEE (0) -
Kraeg (2) -

Mohab5

NorwegianboyEE

Billy Pilgrim (0) - 00,

Not Voting: Emperor FlippyNips, Skellen,

profii

ACTIVITY NOTES:
All is good!

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Friday, September 13th at 10:00 am PDT which is in

(expired on 2019-09-13 10:00:00)

Hmm the first two are interesting. Me and profii are in the same position on two different vote counts but the situation is different.

Profii jumps off because of the roleclaim while I Jump on. I think skellen is town so from my pov the entire wagon on kreag is town. So profii should either be really suspicious of skellen or kreag since he seems to town read me. Becuase if kreag is town at the point Profii was on multiple people could of hammered and easily of used the excuse but Kreag roleclaim was scummy. Also while kreag himself acted like both roles could coexist so did Billy. While not what scum should do Kreag has been weird all game and I don't think we should treat him as standard.

There's atleast one scum on mohabs wagon. The candidates are kreag,Luca and billy. Kreags really starting to tick all the scum boxes on reflecting on how events played out.

VOTE: Kreag

Mod Edit: Fixed broken quote tags

I've wanted to do that for agesssssssssss.

[profii]

oh that's why you believed in Lucas case on me day 1 despite it being shit. I can buy that.

Who is next in line with the massclaim?

I'll be honest I dont think I read the case, I just said he must be town or whatever

[profii]

So I'm pretty sure EFN is scum

It makes no sense for scum to have a RB with no other PRs, nothing for them to block and it seems unfair that they have a misleading PR so I'm going back to my original theory that too many people wanted a Kraeg lynch day 1

I'm fairly certain Billy was showing genuine paranoia pre-claim so I'll call him town

So then we have Garmr who sabotaged a mislynch on Kraeg - I will re read this slot that is crazy for scum

Which means my feeling that skellen is allowing town tov wander into that Kraeg mislynch is right

VOTE: EFN

If kraeg could RB skellen tonight as well that would be super

[profii]

So you are saying we could be in A3 of the newbie setup and the mod just hasn't told us - which explains the seemingly nonsensical scum rb?

I dunno man. It's all mechanical and not based on play

[profii]

Been mulling over this

VOTE: Kreag

If kreag is scum then this is the best vote if kreag is town then his going to fuck up in mylo if we get there and mislynch me. His a liability to town no matter what alignment.

I agree but

And this is an important but

If he is town pr and we can remove 1 scum we can stop kills more easily

[profii]

Skellen is also right- the scenario where we do block kills is rather swingy

Kinda feel like I just hammer here, what's the point in intent on a slot we knownthenclaim of who wouldn't tell us his target and even if he does and he is town it is meaningless anyway as it could be scum that didn't kill

Consider this intent for now but I'll hammer v soon

[profii]

If Kraeg flips town, and someone claims a pr tomorrow, I am going to have a hard time believing it.

you keep saying this like you know it's going to happen...

[profii]

how can me and luca not be deepwolfing together if we verified each others mason claims exactly?!

[profii]

One of us probably does tonight tbh

[profii]

Well done skellen!

[profii]

Method in my madness

[profii]

I wouldn't have posted it if I didnt mind you reading it

Let's just say skellen played great