Detective Penguin & City of Fogport [Game Over]

[Bingle]

I dont really see the big issue. Allthough to be fair, I have been working on the wrong assumption they were all 1 shot. No idea why.

And... Kuribo. Who was a parity cop in a game with millers. Also known as a full cop.

[Bingle]

Yeah. The reviewer thing I'm doing.

Assume for the moment that Sane is a town cop.
Assume for the moment that no cop is shot N1.

Sane cop gets a result on one of 10 players, 2-4 of which are scum N1.
Insane cop gets a result on one of 10 players, 2-4 of which are scum.
Parity cop gets an immediately useful result on one of 10 players, 2-4 of which are scum.

When they flip, the accuracy of the Sane/Insane cop becomes a known value. Further, they have no reason not to claim in the cop PT. If scum doesn't shoot them to leave the validity of their checks as questionable, They continue to get 3 checks per night, which in three nights has caught 2-4 scum and cleared the remainder of the 10 people they can check.

If scum shoots and hits the Naive cop, the results are useful functionally immediately. If scum shoots and hits a functional cop N1 that's 2 results D2. If they hit ANOTHER functional cop N2 that's 3 results D3. If they hit the last functional cop N3 that's still 3 clears/guilties out of 10 people, at least 2 of which are scum (but probably at least 3 and possibly 4), with optimal nightkills, no protection intervention, and absolutely no scum agency in the nightkills. And scum have to have been targeting the same pool of people who could theoretically be investigated. That's just bad game design.

Me. Whoopsies.

[Bingle]

My Chandar paranoia was correct, I think my D1L is too

I still lean D1L town, but the lynch pool today should 100% be my hood/doc hood.

Of those names, Marquis is off the table 100% unless someone comes into the thread with a guilty on him. I tr Vec and D1L. I want to lynch JJD with all of my hearts. All like 7 of them, but that pool is definitely where we should be lynching today, despite the fact that purely from a balance perspective, one of Croag/PP should be scum.

[Bingle]

How do you "come into the thread with a guilty" on an untargettable. I thought we were talking about someone who did infiltrate your hood and is supposed to receive a FN confirmation for it.

Yes? There is a person in the thread who knows who they are with hard information on Marquis' alignment. If they show up and say, yeah, Marquis lying scum, then I will vote Marquis. That's... That's really the core concept of a guilty.

[Bingle]

Add Bingle to D1L. I will vote there regardless of the game state. I will throw and risk a suspension if needs be.

ATE noted and ignored.

[Bingle]

Didn’t he claim miller?

Person who joined our thread should have received confirmation that Marquis is town via claim in our hood. Both Marquis and I are claimed millers, along with your hood. It's not a cop guilty, it's a mechanically x should have happened if you were town guilty.

[Bingle]

If it's someone else, then why the hell have they not come forward with that testimony when they posted today?

I'm not outing our new friend. Ask Vec and Marquis to back me up if you must, but the big bonus to having people in the unkillable hood is that scum doesn't necessarily know they're unkillable. If we stop a scumkill, that's p much game over, and I'm not going to give up on that possibility because you're throwing a tantrum over not being able to lynch someone who is town 95% of the time.

[Bingle]

The fishing is bad. Responding to the fishing is just as bad.

[Bingle]

Also, Bingle was going hard on Pops yesterday, where’s that now?

1 scum in cop hood, 1 scum in my hood/doc hood. Pops has to be town via my gamestate read.

And all of the stuff I'm 'keeping in the dark' is known by at least 1 townie by your own logic. 2 if your proposed solve is me/pops.

[Bingle]

I'm not infallible. I'm also not going to give up on what I see as the solve.

If pops is scum, I'm going to brag the shit out of that read though, because I wanted to lynch that shit for the whole game until balance said fuck you she's town.

[Bingle]

I'm not outing our new friend. Ask Vec and Marquis to back me up if you must, but the big bonus to having people in the unkillable hood is that scum doesn't necessarily know they're unkillable. If we stop a scumkill, that's p much game over, and I'm not going to give up on that possibility because you're throwing a tantrum over not being able to lynch someone who is town 95% of the time.

[Bingle]

@Bingle - I never don’t position myself alongside you here if I were scum, i think you know this which is why you haven’t pushed at me.

S'not the tell, but yeah, you're town. Just because you're town doesn't necessarily mean you're right.

*cough*ArkhamAsylum*cough*

[Bingle]

Nah, Flavor is town.

He's frustrating as balls. But he's town.

[Bingle]

actually idk why I'm hiding it since I can't be rbed or killed anyway LOL I vigged kagami and I'm vigging whichever of you/FL doesn't die this day too

Can confirm. I was lying my ass off about Marquis being FN, but he is conftowned by the hood.

Still think we're all town, slight chance of Vecna scum. Still want to lynch in the doctors today. Still think JJD is the best lynch.

[Bingle]

Marquis claimed the Fish kill.

[Bingle]

I confirmed myself as town to Bingle last night.

Come fucking on! Bingle was all about someone OUTSIDE your hood joining it. Vecna didn't object so implicitly agrees "someone" infiltrated your hood. And now you tell me that isn't the case?

Obviously a protown lie to obfuscate why Marquis was confirmed while preventing scum from knowing that the vig they can't risk shooting wasn't someone that they would risk shooting anyway.

[Bingle]

Nothing makes bloody sense. If Marquis shot Kagami, why is he voting FL based on a pops case that requires FL to have shot Kagami? Marquis would know well that FL didn't shoot Kagami and thus wasn't setting pops up in any way.

He's voting FL because he thinks I'm wrong about scum in doctor hood.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Bingle

Let's do this. Bingle flips green I promise to leave Marquis alone (and he can Vig me too on top of that)

Oooh, so surprising that JJD wants to lynch the unkillable uncaffeinated townie.



Why tf is anyone townreading this.

[Bingle]

There are 4 living players who are currently addicted to caffeine.

Speaking of which:

JJD/Marquis/Croag/PP/Pops

Pops tried to FN Kagami last night, and so should be caffeinated. JJD meanwhile supposedly docced *someone* on a night where we have no missing kills and was all for bringing this up while we were lynching Chandra, but mysteriously doesn't want to talk about it today.

[Bingle]

Nobody fucking asked, and my hood already know about it.

And you bloody called yourself "the" unkillable uncaffeinated townie. Is Vecna caffeinated or is he not a townie?? By the way you listed the caffeinated players omitting Vecna I can only deduce you don't trust him, yet you keep telling us your hood is all town.

NOTHING you say or do makes bloody sense.

I don't want/care to discuss whether Vecna is caffeinated because that informs scum decisions. The important thing is that :you: have thought this was an important topic and then suddenly dropped it. The important thing is from :your: PoV I invalidate the caffeine wincon. I can't be left alive, because as long as I'm alive scum you can't win. You can't shoot me. Therefore, you HAVE to lynch me.

I'm operating under the assumption that Vecna is town because he's directly responsible for Marquis shooting Fish and has been pretty towny besides. If necessary, I'll reevaluate later, but the game will probably be over long before that becomes necessary or you'll get me mislynched and pull off the win for scum. I honestly don't care which, when no one else is calling you out on your blatantly scum motivated plans.

GDI. I have an entirely different scheme for this account and I still slip.

Sorry, FG.

[Bingle]

So convenient

That's literally my point?

[Bingle]

And Bingle was using it as a way to

defend Marquis

push for a JJD lynch

Sounds better (and more to it) this way

The only defense Marquis needs is: Marquis shot Fishman.

The only things JJD has going for him is that he's warlocked you and he pointed out the incredibly obvious scumslip his buddy made.

[Bingle]

Like, I'm regretting talking Marquis down from shooting you last night, FL. It'd be so much easier to lynch scum if you weren't hard defending him for what appears to be no reason.

[Bingle]

Am I screaming into the void? Pops did not use her ability last night.

I missed that. I also missed the 1 shot part of the claim in the first place.

[Bingle]

Yes. I thought Marquis was crumbing FN N1, he fullclaimed vig last night, and I ran with the thing I saw to stop people from forcing him to out if he didn't want to.

[Bingle]

i think PP has significant scum equity for balance/dayplay reasons

Agreed, but not today. We find the scum in us/docs before we go cop hunting.

[Bingle]

If scum is in my hood it’s vecna, but scum doc also helps the vigs balance.

[Bingle]

from a scum pov they really cannot townread me. Yet the key players are doing that. How are they going to kill me even if they mislynch you? clearly they need the caffeine victory here.

The pivot from me to you isn't even difficult to imagine. Oh, look. The one unkillable guy who was obvtown flipped town, it must be that other unkillable guy who is scum for reasons!

[Bingle]

^^Bingle is forgetting his own reasons. It seems that every layer of lies he adds blocks his memory from remembering what he had said earlier.

I townread Marquis and Vecna. (And D1L! OMG!) There is scum in a pool of 6 players. Apparently, townreading multiple people in that pool of six players is unreasonable.

And yes, if there is scum in {Marquis/Vecna} it's Vecna 300% of the time. That doesn't mean I think Vecna is scum, that means that if there is scum in 3 people who are probably all town, it's not the one who vigged scum and it's not the one whose role PM is in my inbox.

[Bingle]

JJD probably top townread

[Bingle]

So Bingle, I’m expecting you to protect me here, because there’s absolutely zero way you scum read me here as town.

I spent most of the time I was on in the night phase arguing against you being vigged. I'll do the same tonight if Marquis wants to shoot you again.

For the record, I told Marquis to shoot JJD, or failing that, to holster. Because in my eyes shooting you or pops just brings us that much closer to the loss.

And yeah I have a reason for thinking the hood is all town. It's pretty solid imo. I'd be pretty down with you joining us so I can tell you without prying scumfucks listening in.

[Bingle]

Yeah, It’s JJD-Chennis.

Fucking Finally.

[Bingle]

Lynching you is pretty reasonable

Why

Why not?

What have they done that would make it unreasonable to you?

If you want a case I may even provide one, though I'm not sure what the point is when no one cares what I think.

Actually you know what I don't like the DOL slot that much

But yeah I want an outline sort of

VOTE: Chennisden

No! You were so close. Vote the cheeky scumfuck who I've been telling you to vote for literal eternities.

[Bingle]

Marquis, Vecna, Bingle are probably masons that have a post restriction that they can’t claim they are masons, and joining into the neighborhood i’ll be able to see they are masons, though.

Which is why they’re all caffeinated, meaning there’s 4 caffeinated alive players.

Meaning the CPR doctor is scum.

I'm not caffeinated.

[Bingle]

I was just curious how Bingle knew there was 3 vigs D2 and made some theory

I didn't. Technically, I still don't. I trust FL's claim, he didn't set it up the way he does gambit claims (as I mentioned). I trust Marquis's claim there's no way he risks the cc for no reason when he's already this far behind. I trust the dead townie. I trust that the doc hood isn't collectively lying about the mod confirmation that there's a CPR doc.

Dead vig + fish kill + CPR doc who didn't act is 3 vigs.

Dead vig + FL claim + CPR doc killed fish is 3 vigs.

With my D2 knowledge, it was basically assured there were 3 vigs.

With my current knowledge, it's pretty likely there's 4 vigs.

[Bingle]

He claimed in hood last night, but I leave for him to decide, if he want out here or not

Why would a spent 1 shot doc who didn't save anyone not want to claim their target? That's bullshit to stop himself from being analyzed.

[Bingle]

who was that and why they lyingggg

Vecna. I don't actually care why he made the obvious lie.

I'm not caffeinated. Marquis was caffeinated N1 when he shot Fish by his claim.

[Bingle]

That's not better.

[Bingle]

I think it’s confirmed there’s no more than 1 scum within them, or else this game would be over because scum get a Night kill tonight and still win even if both scum die.

They still need to mislynch me (and Vecna if he's town). Agreed that we don't lynch an uncaffeinated today.

Cops should out their results fully. Presumably you targeted together again to get a workable result, right?

VOTE: JJD

[Bingle]

PP/Croag: Unreliable cop targets
FL: Investigates like scum
Chenn/JJD: Maybe inno'd?
Marquis/Bingle/Vecna: uninvestigatable

So. Is there an innocent result on one or more of Chenn/JJD?

[Bingle]

He's not confirmed town. He's confirmed to be a vigilante. He's still town though.

[Bingle]

Bingle
Marquis
Flavor Leaf
Vecna
chenn
croag
PP
JJD

That's where I'm at.

[Bingle]

idk.

VOTE: bingle?

Why?

[Bingle]

Marquis is the only method by which Fish Monger died that has claimed.

Potential alternatives: JJD is CPR doc who hit a buddy on N1. Actual vig who shot Fish is not cc-ing because they hate us and actively want to lose the game. The n1 kill was actually on a fakeclaiming PGO.

I want to lynch JJD, which will solve that potential issue. If JJD flips CPR doc, he was probably lying about targeting ofhrz and Marquis looks a hell of a lot worse.

If the N1 kill had been on a PGO, I don't see how marquis could have known that when he claimed, given that FL was a claimed vig at the time and could well have acted. That's a ballsy move that I'm not even considering. It could mean FL and Marquis are scum together, except that I've spent the last two nights talking Marquis down from murderlating FL. So for Marquis to be scum, both me and FL have to be scum (which is dumb) OR JJD has to be scum (he is, but that's not directly indicative of Marquis scum) in which case the first correct choice is to LYNCH JJD.

teal deer: I don't show the work when it's basic addition.

[Bingle]

Also, in this case, nobody is "Every sane player in the game".

[Bingle]

Bingle
Marquis
chenn
Flavor Leaf
Vecna
croag
PP
JJD

That's where I'm at.

Revision based on cop results.

Marquis can only be scum with JJD IF JJD flips cpr doc. Not going there today.
Chenn can only be scum with whichever of croag/PP is sane. Not going there today.
FL is town.
Vecna is probably town.

Simplest answer is that JJD is partnered with croag or PP, which, y'know, is what I suggested yesterday. Croag has minor equity in trying to join the cool hood instead of y'know, investigating, especially after I hinted to FL that we had significant information to share. Both have minor scum equity in that their target was shot last night.

[Bingle]

You wanna unpack that a bit, Mr. Penguin?

[Bingle]

It isn't?

I literally just raised that as an issue.

[Bingle]

Yeah - I don't like being scumread for stupid reasons.

Which of:

Balance wise 3 full town cops is insane.
Holstering as a town cop is :thorface:
Every kill in the cop hood is theoretically town controlled.
I have strong reasons for everyone else to be town.

Is a bad reason to have you in my PoE?

[Bingle]

I'm actually starting to lean croag as the copscum.

[Bingle]

I do want croag to come in here and respond to the narrative of the hood before we EoD tho.

[Bingle]

PP/Vecna is the 1v1 tomorrow

Um...

No?

We reevaluate based on whether JJD is a CPR doctor or a (What's the other option? Regular? I can't remember flips.)

If CPR doc, it's probably marquis because that's the only way night actions line up.

If not CPR, we need to look hard at what happened the last few days to find his partner.

[Bingle]

You just said I went along with it when

a.) We didn't intend to target the same person

and

b.) I was the first one to post my results.

Chandra
Kagami
Penguin
Judge Joseph
Possible pops?

Have at least one scum in them likely

That's a very bad list, FL.

Pp’s first Day 2 post

You gotta give to him though. 2 gave already flipped town, and I know I am, so if PP is town (and I do believe he is) that's 1 scum out of 5. Bad list indeed.

Holy crap is this shade ridiculous.

Hey, that list FL said had one scum? It had ONE SCUM!

[Bingle]

I’m actually a confirmed Vigilante now, so it’s funny I’m getting voted

Or potentially scum with Marquis and some unknown shenanigans happening.

Marquis is the only method by which Fish Monger died that has claimed.

Potential alternatives: JJD is CPR doc who hit a buddy on N1. Actual vig who shot Fish is not cc-ing because they hate us and actively want to lose the game. The n1 kill was actually on a fakeclaiming PGO.

I want to lynch JJD, which will solve that potential issue. If JJD flips CPR doc, he was probably lying about targeting ofhrz and Marquis looks a hell of a lot worse.

If the N1 kill had been on a PGO, I don't see how marquis could have known that when he claimed, given that FL was a claimed vig at the time and could well have acted. That's a ballsy move that I'm not even considering. It could mean FL and Marquis are scum together, except that I've spent the last two nights talking Marquis down from murderlating FL. So for Marquis to be scum, both me and FL have to be scum (which is dumb) OR JJD has to be scum (he is, but that's not directly indicative of Marquis scum) in which case the first correct choice is to LYNCH JJD.

teal deer: I don't show the work when it's basic addition.

Bad Vecna. I already had to shout down stupid scumreads on 'quis today.

[Bingle]

Dunno where that penguin quote came from.

[Bingle]

ATF noted, die scumfuck.

Also, I typed up a joke for you before the thread lock and FG made it disappear.

[Bingle]

I’m actually a confirmed Vigilante now, so it’s funny I’m getting voted

Or potentially scum with Marquis and some unknown shenanigans happening.

Marquis is the only method by which Fish Monger died that has claimed.

Potential alternatives: JJD is CPR doc who hit a buddy on N1. Actual vig who shot Fish is not cc-ing because they hate us and actively want to lose the game. The n1 kill was actually on a fakeclaiming PGO.

I want to lynch JJD, which will solve that potential issue. If JJD flips CPR doc, he was probably lying about targeting ofhrz and Marquis looks a hell of a lot worse.

If the N1 kill had been on a PGO, I don't see how marquis could have known that when he claimed, given that FL was a claimed vig at the time and could well have acted. That's a ballsy move that I'm not even considering. It could mean FL and Marquis are scum together, except that I've spent the last two nights talking Marquis down from murderlating FL. So for Marquis to be scum, both me and FL have to be scum (which is dumb) OR JJD has to be scum (he is, but that's not directly indicative of Marquis scum) in which case the first correct choice is to LYNCH JJD.

teal deer: I don't show the work when it's basic addition.

Bad Vecna. I already had to shout down stupid scumreads on 'quis today.

So mechanically youre totally fine with a town with these cops also having 3 town vigs?

HUH.

Colour me intrigued in this narrative.

FL and Pelican (and possibly chenn) would be town 1 shot vigs in this scenario, while Marquis is a 2 shot. In a target pool of 9/13 town. Looks like a bloody as fuck N1, but given scum doc that's not particularly egregious. It also perfectly explains why JJD acted N1. If there's a vig claim that's not on your scum team, and a vig claim that's been lynched, and another potential vig claim in your hood, you damn well target the scummiest member of your team with a protective on N1. Actually, I think I've talked my way into CPR kill on Fish.

Maybe it is Marquis/JJD and I've been wrong about Marquis this whole time.

[Bingle]

If Bingle and i were scum, there were much easier routes we could have taken to win the game.

Don't kid yourself, we would totally have done ridiculous theater in the game thread to fuck with everyone. It'd be too fun to resist.

Alas, not today. But someday we'll literally make a head explode when we rand scum together. Maybe we can get AP in on the fun and just have the most refuge in audacity game ever.

[Bingle]

I could see, in a far-away fantasy land how the claimed parity cop was instead a reflexive suicide bomber or w/e that is called in proper naming convention, and played the way he did to attract the N1 kill and drag a scum with him.

Suicidal PGO, Bomb, or non veteran PGO, depending on what you actually mean there.

[Bingle]

Vecna, Marquis, Bingle, have you guys all full claimed?

Can we have one post that states exactly all three of your roles?

Bingle: Miller Quadvoter who loses a vote every day until he only has one.

Vecna:

Starts Caffeinated

Triplevoter who loses a vote every day until he only has one.

Marquis: 2 shot compulsive vig.

Collectively: Reflexively Roleblocking Vanillaizing Neighborizors who give this modifier to anyone who targets them.

AFAIK, that is the full claim of everyone in my hood. Vecna never actually retracted the obvious lie, but it was obvious, so...

[Bingle]

Maybe it is Marquis/JJD and I've been wrong about Marquis this whole time.

Then you lynch Marquis FIRST and then we see, because -according to how the game went- chenn is the CPR Doctor and he DID NOT ACT ON N1.

Why would we lynch Marquis first when the only way he can be scum is WITH you?

[Bingle]

Oh, Marquis is a miller too.

We never did figure out why there are millers in the untargetable thread.

[Bingle]

JJD claims to have protected ofhrz in the goal of killing him N1 and he didn't die.

Hence, JJD wouldn't be CPR, and chenn would have to be.

This, of course, relies on JJD telling the truth. And if we tried to test it, chenn wouldn't be uncaffeinated anymore, so clearly that's not going to happen.

[Bingle]

Bingle, whats your profession?

Emergency on call maintenance atm. I've done a little of everything though. Why?

[Bingle]

Oh, let me check.

[Bingle]

Wealthy CEO. Apparently my job is having money.

[Bingle]

And you said holster here, which means he didn’t claim his Compulsive part until later. This is so he can explain shooting night 1 and 2, and tapped out after 2 shot, conveniently so so they can get a lynch on me rather than kill me, because they saw me as mislynchable, something ScumMarquis would obviously think.

He claimed compulsive early. Holster in this case would have been shooting me or Vecna and becoming not a vig.

And I'm coming around on Marquis maybe being scum, but it still requires JJD being scum. Which means that we lynch JJD first.

There are worlds where JJD is scum and Marquis isn't. There aren't worlds where Marquis is scum and JJD isn't. JJD's sudden push on Marquis suggests to me A) Marquis will be conftowned when JJD flips Paranoid Doc or B) JJD thinks he can shoot his way out of this corner he's in.

[Bingle]

A) Marquis will be conftowned when JJD flips Paranoid Doc

Huh??? How does me flipping paranoid clear Marquis in any way???

Remember this post you quoted a tiny part of? Remember? Remember?

Marquis is the only method by which Fish Monger died that has claimed.

Potential alternatives: JJD is CPR doc who hit a buddy on N1. Actual vig who shot Fish is not cc-ing because they hate us and actively want to lose the game. The n1 kill was actually on a fakeclaiming PGO.

I want to lynch JJD, which will solve that potential issue. If JJD flips CPR doc, he was probably lying about targeting ofhrz and Marquis looks a hell of a lot worse.

If the N1 kill had been on a PGO, I don't see how marquis could have known that when he claimed, given that FL was a claimed vig at the time and could well have acted. That's a ballsy move that I'm not even considering. It could mean FL and Marquis are scum together, except that I've spent the last two nights talking Marquis down from murderlating FL. So for Marquis to be scum, both me and FL have to be scum (which is dumb) OR JJD has to be scum (he is, but that's not directly indicative of Marquis scum) in which case the first correct choice is to LYNCH JJD.

teal deer: I don't show the work when it's basic addition.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Bingle

This vote isn't going to move today. Do your best to lynch me because I have turned on my full tunnel mode now.

Oh, the scum is voting me. I'm so scared.

[Bingle]

The thing that bothers me is that scum still never tried to figure out wtf is up with our hood if its all town. Sure, we've only had 3 nights, and they had a plethora of cops to kill.....but it almost feels like they need to have someone in there to know wtf is going on with all our shit.

If theres no scum in our hood, I bet theyre whining their asses off to kingdom come in their scumchat.

Read JJDs iso. It’s not in the scumthread. It’s here.

[Bingle]

Why can't Marquis be trueclaiming scum, Bingle?

Fish was dying soon anyway and that's really the strongest form of a bus you can get.

:/

How many times have you seen scum shoot a partner? Cause for me, the answer is twice. In 6 years of forum mafia.

[Bingle]

Like literally the argument here is that scum with two kills decided not to kill in the cop hood they knew about. Decided not to kill the claimed vig. Decided not to kill the unknown threats. And instead actively shot his own partner, who was himself apparently a watcher. One of the strongest scum investigation roles. You can’t get much more playing against wincon than that.

[Bingle]

I also don’t believe Fish was Vig killed. CprDoc killed him, and Marquis is covering for the CPR doc.

Which is why Marquis/JJD is possible.

But if chenn is scumCPR doc, one of the cops has to be covering for him thus scum, and Marquis would have to be town.

Alternatively, if CPRdoc didn't kill Fish, Marquis p much has to have. And again, he knew there were 2-3 town cops in a hood, a claimed town vig and 6 other roles of unknown power, and he supposedly CHOSE to shoot Fish for towncred. That's literally the hoop that JJD is jumping through here to justify a scumread on Marquis that doesn't involve JJD being scum first.

From town JJD's perspective, Marquis is conftown. JJD IS SMART ENOUGH TO FIGURE THAT OUT. JJD is pushing us to lynch Marquis first.

Therefore: JJD is scumlordz.

Why the fuck haven't I gotten this lynch yet? I've only been shouting for it for a month and a half.

[Bingle]

He shot Kagami, though, who was in the cop hood.

I agree that if JJD doesn't flip the scum role that literally clears Marquis I have to hard reevaluate Marquis.

[Bingle]

^that is a shitty VC.

Fakegod, vote JJD. You know you want to.

[Bingle]

it's bingle but you do you, FL

Chennisden in this thread:

Bingle's pushing a narrative.

Bingle in this thread:

VERIFIABLE FACTS.

Chennisden in this thread:

Bingle is scum.

[Bingle]

First of all, verifiable facts here refers to chennisden saying that my defending marquis being town was like flat earthers when in point of fact it was about an uncounterclaimed vig on scum and several points no one has argued against.

Second of all, I've cased you multiple times over multiple days. If anyone who isn't scum can't be bothered to ISO me to find that, they can damn well ask me themselves.

[Bingle]

From town JJD's perspective, Marquis is conftown. JJD IS SMART ENOUGH TO FIGURE THAT OUT. JJD is pushing us to lynch Marquis first.

Therefore: JJD is scumlordz.

[Bingle]

Logical clear trains:

If JJD town -> Marquis town.
If PP & Croag town -> chenn town.

That's literally it. And somhow, JJD is arguing the sole lynch that he as town WOULD KNOW TO BE A MISLYNCH.

[Bingle]

I also don’t believe Fish was Vig killed. CprDoc killed him, and Marquis is covering for the CPR doc.

Which is why Marquis/JJD is possible.

But if chenn is scumCPR doc, one of the cops has to be covering for him thus scum, and Marquis would have to be town.

Alternatively, if CPRdoc didn't kill Fish, Marquis p much has to have. And again, he knew there were 2-3 town cops in a hood, a claimed town vig and 6 other roles of unknown power, and he supposedly CHOSE to shoot Fish for towncred. That's literally the hoop that JJD is jumping through here to justify a scumread on Marquis that doesn't involve JJD being scum first.

From town JJD's perspective, Marquis is conftown. JJD IS SMART ENOUGH TO FIGURE THAT OUT. JJD is pushing us to lynch Marquis first.

Therefore: JJD is scumlordz.

Why the fuck haven't I gotten this lynch yet? I've only been shouting for it for a month and a half.

I've explained it. Several times. You've quoted those explanations to say that the potential for Kuribo to be a PGO was laughable. Chenn has accused me of preaching a narrative, when said narrative is either you or marquis is responsible for the Fish kill. If you killed Fish, you're scum. If Marquis killed fish, Marquis is town. Ergo If JJD Town, Marquis Town.

[Bingle]

@Mod: please prod Marquis.

[Bingle]

Yes, the logical clears are one directional.

Our options here are Marquis killed Fish. JJD CPR docced Fish. Kuribo killed fish. Someone is fakeclaiming not having killed fish as town when we have confirmation on most roles.

I talked about why I don't believe 3. 4 would actually be gamethrowing. If Marquis is scum, it's with JJD, so we lynch JJD first.

[Bingle]

I suppose I should add chenn's theory. Marquis is a 2 shot scum vig who shot his own partner N1 because bussing.

[Bingle]

Who killed Fish in your proposed universe JJD?

[Bingle]

@Dingle: what's the name of the character in your avi?

Binky Barnes

[Bingle]

ANYONE could have. FL could have. Theoretically, chenn could have. Scum!Marquis could have. Kuribo PGO could have. I am more concerned about who is scum and ALIVE now. And I am shocked you don't see the Marquis lynch is the optimal mechanical option.

Why hasn't town FL claimed the shot?

How did town chen kill Fish without becoming caffeinated. If he is caffeinated, who among the caffeinated people is lying. If you say Marquis, why did Kagami die?

If Kuribo, why did Marquis claim the shot when it looked like a hidden vig was responsible?

If scum marquis, why not shoot another town player? That would be taking his faction 2 kills farther away from wincon.

Talking mechanically optimal here, Marquis is literally the least optimal choice. Cleared by one lynch, where, comparatively chenn is cleared by 1.5 lynches. Disregarding all subjective reads, FL is probably the right lynch. (Unconfirmable, no remaining power, already caffeinated.) But subjective reads trump mechanics unless the game is solved or the subjective reads are weak.

[Bingle]

Great argument as to why Marquis can be scum without you, JJD. Very compelling. It's almost like this is the same as the last 10 times I explained why that's a terrible vote and you ignored it.

[Bingle]

Marquis claimed 2 shot to claim it because he had to.

If there was a hidden Vig on Fish that’s much more likely it goes back to CPR doc JJD.

Sure. If Marquis is scum, so is JJD. So we lynch JJD, and if he flips CPR doc we lynch Marquis. If he flips not CPR doc, Marquis is by necessity town imo.

[Bingle]

FL or JJD has to be scum here.

It's JJD. Please, vote him.

[Bingle]

VOTE: JJD

Whatever.

Either this flips scum, or it flips town meaning that Chennis can CPR-vig FL tonight. (I hope)

Pretty sure its either FL + bingle or PP + JJD.....

And the former is just more towny as a whole than the latter two by a decent margin. Even with all the scummy shit attached.

This was a good vote. Go back to it.

[Bingle]

But, I don't disagree with JJD being scum which is why I wanted to invest him last night, and why I'm suspicious that D1L was the nk when croag suggested him instead of JJD and didn't respond to me afterward.

In the name of sanity, penguin, please join my wagon.

[Bingle]

SCUM-leaning:
Bingle
Vecna
Judge Joseph Dredd
Marquis

Marquis can't be scum without JJD. If the scum team is me and Vecna, we've literally already won, the lynch today doesn't matter, and all of this pulling teeth is nonsense. So, vote the only person in your scumlist who can actually be partnered with anyone else in your scumlist por favor.

[Bingle]

Just kill Marquis. He’s obv scum

In any world where Marquis is scum, JJD is also scum.

YOU agree with me that JJD is scum.

Why fight me so hard on lynch order when fypov it shouldn't matter? In your eyes, JJD's lynch should be the nail in Marquis' coffin. We can end this day, lynch this scum, and I'll support you tomorrow.

[Bingle]

@Chenn: you're literally the only one here who HASN'T agreed JJD is scummy. You're also the only other one pushing Marquis and not JJD. Please respond to 3976 and/or towncase JJD.

[Bingle]

A Bingle/Vecna scumteam has already won.

If we're both scum, regardless of which one of us you lynch today the other is vig-immune and can shoot the only uncaffeinated townie, chen.

It's literally useless to consider, and I would have claimed scum at daystart if it were the case.

[Bingle]

Alright, I'll bite.

If you flip town:

7 alive going into night.

Marquis is BP IC.
Vecna and I are decaffeinated, unkillable, uninvestigatable.
Chenn can only be scum with whoever is sane out of croag/PP, which means that croag/PP should investigate FL to determine sanity.

Potential scumteams:

Vecna/Cop
Vecna/FL
Chenn/Sane Cop
FL/Cop

To an outsider, I have the same pairings as Vecna.

From a purely numbers game, we lose the least often by lynching the Sane Cop or FL. I have a hard townread on FL. So, tomorrow should be a 1v1 with FL/Sane cop, which is a no brainer to me.

Likely that would mean that the Sane cop fakeclaims Naive, so it could potentially be a 1v1 with FL/Sane cop or a 1v1 with the two cops, depending on claims. From that I would have to sort the partner to be able to accurately lynch in LYLO.

Of course, this would also be MYLO, so a full reevaluation would be in order. Additionally, the caffeine mechanic would become useless, so chenn would theoretically be able to save us as CPR doc by shooting scum after a mislynch, which means that chenn is likely still the NK tonight.

Which means that not holstering is a viable option. Since he's one shot, he should WIFOM that in order to potentially outguess scum and shouldn't mention his plan.

Of course, scum chen likely tries to test the validity of our BP claim by shooting me and Vecna tonight, which means a chen/Sane cop team with a spare mislynch, meaning town wins. Thus, Scum chen probably shoots one of us and one other townie (FL, actually, because he needs the town cop for a mislynch to save his buddy.) Which brings us back to a 1v1 between the cops.

If on the other hand the world isn't flat and you flip scum, CPR doc flip p much confirms it's marquis and we win easily. JK flip means that scum is in one of {me/Vecna/FL/cops} (Chenn would be confed by the cop inno, as we'd only have one scum left.) I'd like to think I'm fucking conftown after pushing you this hard literally all game. Cops probably confirm sanity here too, but we have a 5v1 with 2 conftown (one of whom is BP) or a conftown and a confscum.

[Bingle]

I love how I targeted posts at all but one of the players, and the only one who is attempting to engage me is the one I didn't target.

God we deserve to lose this game.

[Bingle]

I will ignore the last paragraph, as it's not what I asked (obviously). So, if you were told (by the mod) that I was town. Your solve would be..?? Who do we lynch TODAY "if I was conf!town"??

Also (and this another question so please answer above first); if I am today;s lynch and I flipped green, what would YOU DO if you were in:
A) chenn's shoes
B) Either Cop's shoes (they dunno their sanities yet, so assume you're a Town Cop)

I'd be in literally the same position as if you were lynched and flipped town with an additional mislynch, so... Same.

My if you flip town answer for what I'd do tomorrow was given from a neutral slot, not my own.

If I were in chenn's shoes today without subjective reads, I'd have told everyone I was going to shoot a townread all day and that they didn't have to worry about that slot. Then, I'd holster over night, hoping that the scumteam would shoot somewhere else (not me, not the townread) and probably target one of the cops (or maybe holster). Both because if they're town they're the most likely NKs other than myself and a save there is a clear and because they are slots that might well flip scum. Chenn obviously can't do that.

If I were in a cop's shoes today I'd be hard pushing for lynching the other cop, for a few reasons. 1 they are likely to be scum based on my understanding of the game. 2 they confirm my sanity, meaning absolutely no paranoia as to whether the clear I have is a clear or not. 3. It makes me a likely nk if they flip naive because I take your lynch off the table or get a 1v1 with you, meaning I can, you know, not have to be in the game anymore.

[Bingle]

i wish i knew earlier u were either scum or just plain paranoid town
i hate that i'm not 100% certain what it is because i'm assuming you're a cocky enough scumplayer to think you can act as insane as your play this game has been and get away with it

yes i think there's 3 scum. i think that vigs are inherently antitown especially when forced to shoot with low information, and in this game further scum's secondary win condition doing so. if you're really a town vig that's 4 kills per night which are most likely to hit town with a good chance of hitting uncaffeinated town. but i don't think you're a town vig after every bs claim and play you've made this game and i feel like you're finally doubling down on this one because it's what will keep you safest.

First of all, the evidence supports that FL is a vig. (Scum vig is a maybe, sure.) This evidence is the fact that we had two kills last night, and you yourself claimed to be out of shots.

Second of all, 3 scum doesn't solve the fact that 4-5 KPN is swingy as fuck. For example, if one of Vecna and me were scum, it would be entirely possible for scum to win N1, even with town holstering shots. If none of our hood is scum (which seems likely) it was possible for EVERY scum player to be killed N1. If one of us is scum a town win N1 was possible after a single scum lynch. Any way you look at it this game with the caffeine mechanic was going to swing more than a pendulum in a tornado.

[Bingle]

If Marquis ends up being scum, everyone here needs to say post game, “FL, you are a god, we should have never doubted you.”

Someone recently asked me if we were the same person, so I'll allow it.

[Bingle]

This thread:

[Bingle]

Crap, I forgot to login to this acct for a couple days. Don't replace, I'm here.

[Bingle]

JJD still looking for any port in a storm, still needing an immediate lynch. Glad to see I can disappear for a couple days and still see the exact same thread when I get back.

[Bingle]

I don't think Vec/croag responded to my posts @ them. Please do so.

[Bingle]

he cant be that obviously not-bussing his partner lmao

It's Flavor Leaf...he can be that obviously doing anything.

It’s flavor leaf. He’s that obvious doing everything. The fact that his manipulation is all blatant is why it’s so effective.

Why does scum flavorleaf pivot onto a lynch his only support in thread WON’T support? If we’re scum together, that doesn’t solve the issue. My being me means that a hard pivot into bad logic lynching would be a scumclaim (or rather just wouldn’t happen) and fl knows exactly how stubborn I am. He doesn’t try to stare me down there.

If he’s scum with jjd, sure, fine, lynching fl is autowin. But he doesn’t look like scum, and if we hit jjd first we’re still lynching scum. If he’s scum with anyone else, he’s just making it that much more likely that his lynch goes through, and erratic as he is, scum fl is not oblivious.

[Bingle]

The thing that bothers me is that scum still never tried to figure out wtf is up with our hood if its all town. Sure, we've only had 3 nights, and they had a plethora of cops to kill.....but it almost feels like they need to have someone in there to know wtf is going on with all our shit.

If theres no scum in our hood, I bet theyre whining their asses off to kingdom come in their scumchat.

Read JJDs iso. It’s not in the scumthread. It’s here.

VOTE: JJD

Whatever.

Either this flips scum, or it flips town meaning that Chennis can CPR-vig FL tonight. (I hope)

Pretty sure its either FL + bingle or PP + JJD.....

And the former is just more towny as a whole than the latter two by a decent margin. Even with all the scummy shit attached.

This was a good vote. Go back to it.

[Bingle]

Even though I feel this stupid FL vote is just to appeal to me to not get me to vote him here. Me + Marquis is technically not even a possibility, and im really surprised Bingle did not call him out on yet more shit.

The only thing worse than beating a dead horse is betting on one. If “Marquis can only be scum with JJD” hasn’t sunk in by now, I’m not wasting more time when it’s not a lynch that will actually go through.

I’m just not even bothering with the chenn post.

[Bingle]

PenguinPower, Croag, Bingle, Vecna, Judge Joseph Dredd, Marquis

I'm voting in PP/Croag/JJD today.

I don't think outing the thing is a bad idea at this point, Vecna, but I'll leave it up to you. We're in MYLO anyway, so I don't think it matters now.

[Bingle]

Actually...

VOTE: JJD

I don't think croag/PP is possible. Vecna is conftown to me. Marquis can't be scum without JJD.

It literally has to be JJD here.

[Bingle]

The thing, for reference, is that our hood isn't actually bulletproof to the factional NK. I fakeclaimed that forever ago because why the fuck wouldn't I.

If Vecna is scum, he's already won. We lynch him, his partner shoots me, and we lose. Same for me. We can't be scum together because everyone else is caffeinated.

[Bingle]

Tomorrow, in case this goes fast and I'm the nightkill, is a 1v1 of cop v Marquis or cop v cop. Vecna has the details (or enough to put them together) in our PT. I spent like 3 hours on working out every possible nightkill option, so he may have to sift a bit.

[Bingle]

UNVOTE:

Don't really see why, tbh.

[Bingle]

2 inno results on JJD means, FMPOV, scumteam is {cop/JJD}
Guilty result on JJD means, FMPOV, scumteam is Marquis or cop and JJD

[Bingle]

Yeah, I legitimately can't see a reason why croag's entrance changes anything.

[Bingle]

Almost like there are different options then the ones you just listed too...

Are there?

[Bingle]

Aight.

VOTE: JJD

No risk of a quickhammer, FYPOV, because we need 4 to lynch.

[Bingle]

The previous day didnt matter. Today matters

You’re actually both wrong. Scum cop can deduce their alignment d2, which means they can fake results at any point past that. PP and croag holstered N1. That means the only day that was actually relevant for their investigation-outing was D3.

[Bingle]

Why is croag confed to you?

[Bingle]

You saw it first hand in Smith’s cops game.

From a scum POV it takes 2 investigations to fully determine sanity. 1 on town, 1 on scum. You know every alignment, so you know the results after that. If you get T/T you’re naive, T/S either sane or insane and you know which S/S paranoid. At that point you can fake whatever results you want accurately to your role.

[Bingle]

Yeah, but scum has no reason not to lie about who they investigated the second time, assuming jjd is town. Assuming jjd is scum, a guilty result on jjd scum from either of you confirms the other to be naive.

Basically, scum cop only actually has to gamble once here. And it would have been on chenn. Which you’re both confirmed to have told the truth on.

[Bingle]

2 inno results on JJD means, FMPOV, scumteam is {cop/JJD}
Guilty result on JJD means, FMPOV, scumteam is Marquis or cop and JJD

Note: 2 in no results doesn’t clear a cop. It clears marquis.

[Bingle]

I didn’t expect the 1 scum push, but I can point out why it’s dumb again later.

[Bingle]

I mean, they have to right? Thats the only play left to them if the scumteam is in fact JJD/PP.

They could also have done any of the plays I anticipated and broke down in the neighborhood last night. Also, I'm getting the feeling it's croag, not PP. PP seems to have been lead into these conclusions, which implies croag prepped PP over the night phase to make the push for her.

[Bingle]

Scum cop investigations breakdown:

Let's assume for a moment that I am a scum cop of non random unknown alignment. N1 I holster.

N2, I investigate chennisden (Town), and receive the result innocent. I know, at this point, that I am either a Sane cop or a Naive cop.

N3, I investigate my scumbuddy (Scum), and receive the result innocent. I know, at this point, that I am a Naive cop, and anyone I could have targeted would give me an innocent result. I can safely claim an innocent result on literally anyone because that's all I can get.

N3, I investigate my scumbuddy (Scum), and receive the result guilty. I know, at this point, that I am a Sane cop, and anyone I could have targeted would give me an accurate result. I can safely claim an innocent result because the other cop will also have gotten an innocent result.

Alternatively: N2 I investigate scum. I receive an Inno, and am either Naive or insane. I receive a guilty and am Sane (Paranoid already flipped). As soon as Kagami flips insane at day start, I know my sanity, and can safely never use my role again because I know how every player would investigate to me.

tl;dr: predicting the other cop's result wasn't a towntell at all.

[Bingle]

I'll get to 4205, but yes, all of those were addressed over the night phase.

I broke down every possible nightkill. I broke down every possible combination of two nightkills (chenn acts). I broke down which scumteams were likely to perform which nightkills and why. I didn't consider a 3p scumteam because it's ridiculous.

[Bingle]

Okay, let's sole examine the balance of Vecna/Bingle being the last scum, because if FG was super dumb and didn't balance correctly and it isn't Vecna, it doesn't matter because we have another day anyway.

Scum has:

Paranoid Cop
Ninja Watcher
BP Multivoter

Town has:
Sane Cop
Insane Cop
Ninja Parity Cop
3x 1shot Vig
1x 2shot Vig
Ninja Tracker
1x Doctor
1x JK
1x VT
1x Multivoter
1x Friendly Neighbor

Multiple public millers.

This setup is EXTREMELY broken by massclaim.

The vigs can only target in a pool of 14 which has 2 scum in it. To that end, you lynch me and Vecna first (useless roles), then Marquis. Lets assume, for the moment, that that hits town first and scum second. Town is now at 13 people (11v2), maybe.

Kuribo is the obvious nightkill post massclaim. You assign 1 of the 4 doctors to protect him over night, randomly chosen from inside of the doc hood. Kuribo/1 Doc/Cops act. Everyone else holsters.

If Kuribo survives, has a 75% chance of having a useful cop result N1. Cops begin getting useful results N2.
There are 6 caffeinated town on D3 with 13 people. Caffeine is a non issue. If scum shoots for caffeine wincon, they let 3 investigations happen every night. Scum can't win that.

If scum shoots for non caffeine, they abandon the caffeine wincon and are functionally 3 goons (one of which is conditionally guiltied by being the best D1/2 policy lynch) in a town with 4 vigs that all want to holster until there's a really small kill pool.

tl;dr, if there's a three person scumteam with me or Vecna, town had a high chance of literally making this game unwinnable for them on D1. FG isn't a shit mod.

[Bingle]

1- Why would "my scum buddy" check me here? They already know my alignment and they don't need to determine their sanity at this point if the game.

2- Why would scum take a gamble on chenn? Why risk outing themselves when their p -supposedly me- is already under heavy pressure/suspicion?

3- Why would the scum team (of me and a Cop) be shooting chenn over the other Cop? In my book, they shoot the other Cop 100% of the time to eliminate the chance of getting a guilty on me. If the other Cop is Sane then I am still a suspect but not a convict. If they are the Naive Cop then my buddy CAN fake an innocent on me with more confidence.

Hello?

P.S. Let's not forget nobody (outside your hoof) knew you/Vecna could be shot, so shooting chenn "because he was uncaffeinated" just doesn't cut it here. A Scum duo solely outside your hood wasn't playing for the secondary win con and couldn't have been.

Let's divide this into 4 parts and answer non sequentially for the drama!

4. Why claim we're not actually bulletproof?

First of all: FL had already figured it out (Vecna made it clear over the night that this was the major source of his suspicion yesterday), and Vecna made it fairly reasonable to guess multiple times. JJD guessed that we weren't really bulletproof several times. The secret wasn't guaranteed to be a secret anymore.

Second of all: claiming the non BP nature of the hood gives the benefit of not dancing around my townread on Vecna any more.

Third: If we lynch the town outside of our hood, scum has to nightkill in the hood anyway to take the chance. They immediately win, sure, but since there's three town in our hood, scum has to gamble on being able to kill us eventually. They can't not shoot us, because they lose if they don't.

Fourth: At the time, if Marquis was scum, he already knew we weren't really bulletproof.


Over the night phase, option 3 hadn't occurred to me and I was annoyed with Vecna for outing that particular bit of information. I realized while looking for a way croag's result changed JJD necessarily being scum here that option 3 was in play.

[Bingle]

2- Why would scum take a gamble on chenn? Why risk outing themselves when their p -supposedly me- is already under heavy pressure/suspicion?

What gamble? There was no scum gamble here. Either A) scum had perfect information and could lie with impunity or B) scum was trueclaiming. In either case... there was 0% risk.

[Bingle]

1- Why would "my scum buddy" check me here? They already know my alignment and they don't need to determine their sanity at this point if the game.

Why wouldn't your scumbuddy claim to have checked you?

They have two options for investigations. You, or the other cop. If they claim an inno on the other cop, they're an idiot. If they claim a guilty on the other cop, they have a 1v1 with the other cop with you as the only potential partner. If they claim an inno on you, they can maybe swing a Bingle/Vecna team with the other cop instead of the hard 1v1. Of course, I had to go and ruin that pipe dream.

[Bingle]

3- Why would the scum team (of me and a Cop) be shooting chenn over the other Cop? In my book, they shoot the other Cop 100% of the time to eliminate the chance of getting a guilty on me. If the other Cop is Sane then I am still a suspect but not a convict. If they are the Naive Cop then my buddy CAN fake an innocent on me with more confidence.

First of all, discounting the "Scum already knew the other cop's sanity 9/10 times" bit:

Potential NK's for a JJD/Cop team:

The 'BP' hood: This is a gamble. It was also probably the best way out. I left a last will to lynch JJD regardless of arguments if this was the case. Still, the gamble didn't need to be made yesterday. There was significant paranoia about both me and Vecna and a shitton of pants-on-head "the guy who shot fish is scum" from every corner of the universe yesterday (and even today!) so leaving us alive as possible lynch choices made a ton of sense.

A Cop: This is a trap. See, the only possible partners for Chenn as of yesterday were the cops. The wincon for JJD/Cop scumteam is lynch town in hood, or lynch town and hope BP hood isn't as BP as it's made out to be. Chenn was never getting lynched today. We always would have lynched for his partner first.

Chenn: You kill a player who is functionally conftown for today, leaving all of today's mislynches viable. There's still a 1v1 in the worst case scenario. In the best case scenario, you have 4 equally viable lynches.

tl;dr, Marquis was the best kill. Marquis also had an instant lose button WIFOM'd in. The town cop was literally the worst kill possible from your POV.

[Bingle]

VOTE: JJD

wtf? Why would you EVER vote this before Croag?

Actually...

VOTE: JJD

I don't think croag/PP is possible. Vecna is conftown to me. Marquis can't be scum without JJD.

It literally has to be JJD here.

Although, for the record, the chenn flip clears marquis just as handily as Vecna's logic about caffeinations.

[Bingle]

Hmm I just thought of something.

Maybe.....the mod wouldnt end the game here if there was a scum in my hood + someone else.

Because whoever is caffeinated isnt factually know. Weve just been outing it, but the game couldve just been designed that scum arent supposed to really know it so it wouldnt end?

I addressed this in the PT. If I were scum I'd have claimed it because there's literally nothing you could do to stop me. I wouldn't have put in the effort to solve the game, that's for damned sure.

[Bingle]

Im still REALLY wondering though why a scum JJD would be using his ability on anyone that wasnt fish on N1 though.

Wait, did we deduce which doc he is? Would his ability have saved fish?

He's JK I think?

My guess is that he really did think he was CPR doc and was hoping to be a scumvig.

[Bingle]

Im still REALLY wondering though why a scum JJD would be using his ability on anyone that wasnt fish on N1 though.

Wait, did we deduce which doc he is? Would his ability have saved fish?

He's JK I think?

My guess is that he really did think he was CPR doc and was hoping to be a scumvig.

It's not a bad play, in hindsight. There was a claimed vig dead and everyone in his hood was supposed to holster, so he didn't have to worry about that shot. That left, from his PoV, FL. If he didn't think FL would shoot a partner, him doccing makes perfect sense. Hell, he could have been doccing FL, meaning FHPOV there was a 25% chance of killing FL or a 25% chance of stopping his kill.

[Bingle]

Yes.. totally. Because the first thing a mod usually thinks of is "let's give scum a challenge here.. so let me make 3 townies unkillable and give them extra voting powers too". Sounds like something any sane mod would do.

This just hit me: WHAT IF the "unkillables" were really not? What if their PT effect does NOT stop a direct kill? I guess that would explain why they seem to TR each other today, under the false assumption that if scum knew that they would have certainly killed one of them.

^^That's not something I would think of. Blame the monkey man for planting the thought in my head.

There's more, but I'm not really interested in digging. Basically, I've suspected you the entire game because of this whole thing. Our claim didn't make sense to scum you, and you knew if it was true you were pretty disadvantaged. You also couldn't afford to check, because gambling that we were lying and being wrong literally lost you the game.

I'll leave FL's knowledge to Vecna, since he was the one who saw it.

[Bingle]

VoteCount 3.0

Not Voting [11]

- ofrhz, PenguinPower, Croag, Bingle, Day One Lynch, Vecna, Judge Joseph Dredd, chennisden, Marquis, popsofctown, Flavor Leaf

With 11 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-09-15 20:00:00)

There are 4 living players who are currently

addicted to caffeine

.

So this was the start of day3.

Where PP, Croag, JJD, Marquis......and I believe Pops?

All had claimed to act?

My memory is fuzzy, but this might actually be an interesting tidbit

Pops never acted afaicr. Gobbles might have the night he died, but I don't remember anyone claiming it. And honestly, it wouldn't really matter.

[Bingle]

Why would the title character and sane cop be scum

Flavor is not AI. FG is a good mod.

[Bingle]

First quote is in no way suggesting you could be shot. It was suggesting there IS scum in your hood.

Second quote is more of a meme for the moonlogic I use on my main. Try again

Justify me having suspicion that you suspected I might be lying about the full extent of our hood powers but weren't sure?

Flail harder, JJD. I've got you and you know it.

[Bingle]

Croag, scum is trying to pocket you here. There is a reason PP wanted you to out first, because he does not know his own sanity.

He needed you to claim first, because he does not know how to fakeclaim it otherwise. The fact (im assuming thats what your code meant here) that you got an INNO, means he can also claim an INNO to protect his teammate. If you had gotten a guilty, he would have no chance but to bus his teammate here.

The scumteam is PP and JJD.

Im also not protecting any teammate of mine in my hood. But were all town. If there was two scum in our hood the game would be over.

Why would the title character and sane cop be scum

Further:

Carrie Ray Chiropeter
Althoff Chiropeter

Why would the twins be different alignments?
Why is a member of the police department scum in the first place?

Answer: because the game isn't broken by flavorclaiming. Because only newbie mods like A50 make games that are broken by claiming you're all part of the crew of the Serenity. Good mods, like FG/myself/FL/A50 after OK1 will tell you that it's not only a good idea, but a necessary one to take steps, like, I dunno: making one of the members of Dethklok scum in a Dethklok themed game: viewtopic.php?p=11256160#p11256160

Oh, did I just link to another game where I pointed out the setup was solved?

[Bingle]

Probably because she knows her sanity and has for two days. But no, it can't be a cop and a doctor. JJD isn't scum. No one should listen to Bingle, he's crazy.

[Bingle]

Let's take the time to examine the caught scum in it's natural habitat:

The strong back, the sleek coat. The large, dangerous fangs. He ignores all of the logic posts and instead takes witty potshots, hoping to sink his teeth into the soft supple flesh of a mislynch.

[Bingle]

Okay, let's sole examine the balance of Vecna/Bingle being the last scum, because if FG was super dumb and didn't balance correctly AND it isn't Vecna, it doesn't matter because we have another day anyway.

Scum has:

Paranoid Cop
Ninja Watcher
BP Multivoter

Town has:
Sane Cop
Insane Cop
Ninja Parity Cop
3x 1shot Vig
1x 2shot Vig
Ninja Tracker
1x Doctor
1x JK
1x VT
1x Multivoter
1x Friendly Neighbor

Multiple public millers.

This setup is EXTREMELY broken by massclaim.

The vigs can only target in a pool of 14 which has 2 scum in it. To that end, you lynch me and Vecna first (useless roles), then Marquis. Lets assume, for the moment, that that hits town first and scum second. Town is now at 13 people (11v2), maybe.

Kuribo is the obvious nightkill post massclaim. You assign 1 of the 4 doctors to protect him over night, randomly chosen from inside of the doc hood. Kuribo/1 Doc/Cops act. Everyone else holsters.

If Kuribo survives, has a 75% chance of having a useful cop result N1. Cops begin getting useful results N2.
There are 6 caffeinated town on D3 with 13 people. Caffeine is a non issue. If scum shoots for caffeine wincon, they let 3 investigations happen every night. Scum can't win that.

If scum shoots for non caffeine, they abandon the caffeine wincon and are functionally 3 goons (one of which is conditionally guiltied by being the best D1/2 policy lynch) in a town with 4 vigs that all want to holster until there's a really small kill pool.

tl;dr, if there's a three person scumteam with me or Vecna, town had a high chance of literally making this game unwinnable for them on D1. FG isn't a shit mod.

Hmmm. It's like I had a wallpost about why 1 scum doesn't make sense that you never addressed at all.

[Bingle]

Untargetable changing what? Vecna and I are still the obvious utility lynches there.

If anything, that's even fucking worse. You know how I said the investigates were in a pool of 14 players? That was based on the untargetable. Lets add in miller. Assume I'm scum here.

Kuribo had a 2/10 chance of getting a guilty on the first night that goes up every night he's alive. Each useful cop had a 2/11 chance, the FIRST night, of catching scum. They had a 0% chance night two, sure, but their sanities are known after that. After N2, there are 13 people alive. Marquis, kuribo, cophood, 2 of doc hood are caffeinated. There are 0 living scum in the untargetable neighborhood. There are 3 living vigs. There are 0-3 confirmed town, 0-2 confirmed scum, 3 people capable of investigating. Scum has a 0% chance of winning.

Who designs that setup? Who passes that setup's review?

Keep in mind, this wasn't an unlikely result. If I had known there were sanity hoods on D1, I would 100% have pushed the massclaim. Pine/vigs/FN holstering is a foregone conclusion post massclaim, so caffeine isn't a wincon at that point.

You're not arguing against this because there is no argument against this. 14v3 games don't happen. Your argument is that this is a 14v3 game with a functionally vanilla scumteam against 3 cops and 4 vigs.

[Bingle]

Bingle is the one because he was the one to suggest they were unkillable (for town cred).

Yup I totally made that claim that made people suspect me D1 with no thread presence for town cred.

:lmao:

[Bingle]

[Bingle]

Having 100% of your team vulnerable to cops and vigs is also a strong liability when theres so many of them. Having a protected person in our hood gives them a little safeguard then, and that one can pretty much hide in a pool of susp looking millers and vigs that have likely shot town. It also makes the caffeinated victory easier.

Let's examine 4 scum, in the proportion I've offered:

The scumteam would be:

Sane Cop
Paranoid Cop
JK
Ninja Watcher

This leaves:

2 cops with trustable investigations and 4 vigs. Note: the vigs are stoppable via the scum in the doctor hood. The Cops are stoppable via the scum in the doctor hood. Scum actually has the utility to fakeclaim innos and guilties because two cop hood scum means they're not immediately caught when they start faking results. There's still a lot of town power, sure, but there's also a ton of utility in how scum can interact with the game. Scum can actually interact with the night play instead of just kinda sitting there, taking it. The setup is still stacked so that town is likely to get early investigations on scum, but there's no longer literally one player on the scumteam that matters.

[Bingle]

if it is jjd and pp then why is the sane cop mafia lmao

Better question: Why are there three full town cops if Vecna is scum?

[Bingle]

Actually, JK is the only type of doctor that IS capable of stopping multiple vig shots. But you're literally agreeing with me that the setup is VERY townsided. And then arguing that the setup needs to be EVEN MORE townsided to compensate.

[Bingle]

Better question: Why are there three full town cops if Vecna is scum?

Everyone please note that Bingle is consistently LYING because Naive Cop is no Cop at all. It's just a visitor.

Kagami and Kuribo are both town players in this game. I know that's inconvenient to your narrative, but you're going to have to live with it.

[Bingle]

Making a scum into a public ascetic doesn't solve :oops all investigates: It makes them more likely to be policy lynched. Your solution to balance is to say "Hey scum team, I've given you 3 players in a 17 person game. One of those players is in a hood that immediately has extra suspicion. Also, the other two will inevitably die early to vig shots or guilties. You have absolutely no way of interacting with any of these design features, because at least two other people have access to the information about each of your roles."

[Bingle]

1. The only way this isn't MYLO is if there is solo scum that isn't me or Vecna. (Or the game is already over and scum is fucking with us.)

2. My hood is intact because Marquis shot scum N1, and I gambited with Vecna being town.

3. You know who has wanted to lynch in my hood? Fucking everybody. Literally. Fucking. Everybody. I spent most of yesterday shouting down wagons on the VIG who SHOT SCUM.

[Bingle]

I mean, the chandra slip alone proves the setup was balanced enough with 3 scums. If chandra hadn't skipped someone else would have been lynched on that day, and the game would have been even more tilted in your favour by now.

You realize that every investigatable slot has been investigated at this point in the game, right? If there's a sane town cop, chandra would be dead.

[Bingle]

And yes. If we had only lynched 1 scum the game would be over with 6 people left in a 17 player game. That's... common sense.

[Bingle]

Do me a favor and find me a game with 17 players and 3 scum.

I cannot remember even one instance of that happening.

[Bingle]

My hood is intact because Marquis shot scum N1, and I gambited with Vecna being town

And THAT was your plan to victory.

My plan to win was to pocket one player and have my other hoodmate suspect me all game after shooting my scumbuddy.

Yup, you caught me. Also I haven't submitted a single nightkill because I'm functionally braindead.

[Bingle]

I'm disengaging, because arguing with you serves no point. I'm not going to convince you to admit you're scum.

If anyone who is town wants to engage over why "3 scum is stronger than 4 scum" is fucking retarded as a balance argument, I'd be glad to pull your head out of your ass. If anyone who is town wants to engage on why my plan as scum here isn't save obvtown from town self destructing over and over again, hit me up. If anyone who is town here wants to grow a brain, we can still win this fucking game.

[Bingle]

Summation of JJD's play this game:

Attempt to get the entire doc hood to join the 'unkillable' hood, caffeinating 3 townies and himself.
Attempt to get the unkillable hood lynched on the back of 'it's a scummy power'. Later disregards the balance issue of having two scum who are virtually guaranteed to be lynched/vigged and one scum who 'has a scummy power'.
Attempt to get the vig WHO SHOT SCUM lynched on the back of :shrugs:.
Derailed a lynch on himself on the basis that he could be investigated.
Used his doctor on a night when there was an obvious scumkill that he had a 75% chance of preventing, presumably because he had a 25% chance of killing someone, when his hood had not fullclaimed, had internally claimed to not be acting, and scum presumably had no reason to suspect a protection, even if they had a member in the docs.
Argued for the specific lynch I know loses town this game, that also happens to be on the person who suspects him.

[Bingle]

Either unvote JJD or vote me.

This is not a town post.

[Bingle]

I also buy Vecna misreading me, but I don't buy Bingle misreading me AT ALL.

This is not a real stance from A50. He's seen scum me as town. I don't think he's ever been in a game with town me.

[Bingle]

You've also been Scum with me

No. I haven't. We've played together in 3 games. This one, Role Call (You suspected me 0%), and Police Academy (You suspected me 0%). I was scum in 2/3. You were scum in 1/3.

And yeah, scum A50 definitely tries to get the player who he can't nightkill but who is accurately scumreading him lynched. Pull the other one.

I can't recall modding scum you, although I know for sure you were in a bunch of games that I spectated/reviewed. Your scum game is fast, loose, and high noise. Your play this game was fast, loose, and high noise.

[Bingle]

You were scum in police academy?

Lemme go check. I thought it was like gork and some lurker who got their ass lynched early.

[Bingle]

I stand corrected. A50 and I were scum together once. His summation of that game:

Subject: Mini Theme 2007: Police Academy 1 - Game Over

I have a confession to make: This was one of my worst scum games ever.

[Bingle]

Why the fuck am I engaging with scum again?

Penguin, if you have questions, ask them.

[Bingle]

Either unvote JJD or vote me.

This is not a town post.

Yes it is. Reread please

From a mythical towncroag PoV, there are four options here.

Scum Bingle.
Scum Vecna.
Scum JJD/PP.
Scum PP.

From this mythical towncroag PoV, there are 3 options worth considering, because Scum PP loses exactly as many times as Scum JJD/PP.

Croag, here, does not engage over why Scum Bingle or Scum Vecna is terrible. Croag instead tries to derail the lynch whenever it looks like it might be JJD. Croag does not attempt to solve me or Vecna, and in fact, is noticeably silent wrt arguments against solo scum.

Additionally, instead of any paranoia that ScumPP might be bussing here, Croag is 100% sure that the mod, in addition to making a laughably townsided game, also made the cop hood solvable via flavor and added an IC, just for shits and giggles.

There is absolutely no lack of posts to respond to today. Croag has responded to 0% of them. She's not solving, she's actively getting in the way of solving.

[Bingle]

^Note: Not "PP is town because I am town and his only possible partner." Possibly because JJD isn't town.

[Bingle]

but i've been ignoring penguinpower all game and it shows

Penguin, just like croag, doesn’t get lynched today. Penguin, just like croag, can only be scum with JJD or solo. Penguin, just like croag, if solo scum doesn’t win if we lynch jjd. Which is why croag was willing to put her own lynch on the line to save JJD. Because she is never the lynch today, even if she outright scumclaims.

Take a good look at her vote on me. Not “Bingle is scum” but “I’ll lynch literally anyone but jjd.” There’s been no effort to try to read me or convince me I’m wrong on Vecna, because she doesn’t care which one of us gets lynched. Because as soon as there’s a hammer outside of her scumteam she wins.

[Bingle]

Theoretically PP could still be scum with you

He really can’t. There is a 0% chance that town wins if me and penguin are scum together. I wouldn’t waste this much effort on a game I’ve already won, especially when no one has listened to me in the thread for 4 day phases already.

[Bingle]

Oh, and for anyone who is exceptionally paranoid, if scum me was worried about ambiguous caffeine results, the other lynch for the day that isn’t gamethrowing levels of misplay is Vecna. Which also resolves the whole “what if jjd didn’t act” dilemma because I’d still have a nightkill.

I’m noticeably not okay with lynching Vecna.

[Bingle]

VOTE: bingle[/unvote]

It’s him or vecna

Really now? What about this says “wouldn’t lynch Vecna”?

I wash my hands of this game.

v/la until endgame, shoot jingle a pm if there’s another dayphase.

Oh, and it’s actually lylo. If we no lynch jjd shoots me and croag shoots Vecna after jjd is lynched.

[Bingle]

v/la until endgame, shoot jingle a pm if there’s another dayphase.

can you really not. if you're town this helps nobody

All the answers are in my ISO, which you won't read anyway.

I'm fucking done. If town loses, we deserve the loss for some spectacularly shitty play.

[Bingle]

I got prodded after declaring V/LA.

[Bingle]

For the bloody note: A No Lynch is as good as handing the game to Scum right now. All they need is shoot in Vecna/Me to be guaranteed the win tomorrow if they're a couple.

I love how this assumes I’m not solo scum.

[Bingle]

Whoever vigged Fish should join us tonight.

If Marquis vigged Fish, why was this hidden in the Hood of We're All Townreading Each Other?

Marquis has never townread the rest of the hood. He claimed n2.

[Bingle]

And this setup is inherently resistant to follow the cop BECAUSE of caffeine, even if it were 11 docs 2 cops and 4 goons.

Does this not impact your cop balance arguments?

Not really. First of all, we actually had roles that were designed to holster and the reason that particular setup would be ‘balanced’ is because all of those roles are designed to act and avoid claiming early. Second, we have significantly more town power than 11 docs 2 cops. Third, JJD isn’t arguing 4 goons. He’s arguing 3 goons.

[Bingle]

No, I have every valid reason to completely go against this lynch

Look, Vecna I can answer your question regarding you vs. Bingle another time. But this is more of a pressing matter.

From my point of view, JJD literally cannot be scum. Why?

- The only possibility that JJD can be scum is if PP is his partner.
- But, PP is voting JJD at this late stage of a game when he could just hammer Bingle and end the game.
- Which means, PP and JJD are not partners.
- Which means, JJD is confirmed innocent.
- So the final scum is remaining between Marquis, Vecna and Bingle.
- Marquis shot scum very early on. Amazing buss, or a towny move?
- Vecna is only remaining non-caffeinated member, which means he must be town.
- Bingle is literally confirmed scum.


@Vecna, @PP - if you scumread JJD please vote me instead and get this over with lol.

It is either:

- Bingle scum
- PP alone is scum
- Me and JJD are scum (this is not the case)
- Me alone is scum (this is not the case)

- It CANNOT be PP/JJD because PP is voting him when he could just win the game


If you town read me then unvote JJD please

@Vecna does this answer your question. Does it matter if I scumread you earlier. If you are the only non caffeinated person remaining then you have to be town so my opinion has changed

Wow. This ignores so much truth I almost think you have a shot at the presidency someday.

1. Penguin has never had the opportunity to hammer.
2. This is a post script justification for your townread.
3. You’re still hedging bets on the actual conftown.
4. There are two uncaffeinated players. One of them is Vecna, one of them is me. Your argument for Vecna being town literally applies to the guy you’re voting.

Marquis, what about this looks like anything someone who was actually thinking would post, compared to someone copying their buddy’s arguments without understanding them in the first place?

[Bingle]

There are 4 living players who are currently

addicted to caffeine

.

Either unvote JJD or vote me.

This is not a town post.

You’re not even trying to pretend to read. You were having better luck when you just let jjd do all of your talking.

[Bingle]

Can you please stop implying I have no autonomy. Everything I am writing comes from my own brain and heart and just because you don’t like that I am going for you doesn’t make me scum

I’ll bite. How many of the posts I made this phase have you read? Because from where I’m sitting that number appears to be countable on one hand with fingers left over. And I don’t see a reason for town you to just ignore half of the content for the entire player list.

[Bingle]

I have stuff to do on site in about 8 hours. I can’t guarantee I’ll be able to show up between then and deadline. If you are town, croag, now is your last chance to try to convince me.

[Bingle]

If it’s croag or pp solo scum, lynching jjd today doesn’t hurt our chances. Lynching me loses us the game, fwiw. If you feel pp is scum alone, jjd is still the correct lynch. We literally cannot lynch scum without every town vote and there’s less than a day to deadline.

When did Vecna say he’d hammer whoever, JJD?

[Bingle]

It matters because he made it up, and we need marquis to see that.

[Bingle]

Croag doesn’t vote jjd here. She wins by running down the clock. Notice, even with direct confrontation, she doesn’t respond to any of my AI questioning, but rather accuses me of personally attacking her by saying her posts look like she has no idea what she’s saying. When you said they came across as jjd posts, she flat ignored you.

The only way town wins is marquis realizing that jjd is scum and has spent the entire phase misrepresenting things and outright lying.

Anyway, the appraiser is here. See you guys in post.

[Bingle]

That’s an entire dayphase ago.

[Bingle]

VoteCount 5.4

Judge Joseph Dredd [2] - Bingle, PenguinPower
Bingle [2] - Judge Joseph Dredd, Croag

Not Voting [2]

- Vecna, Marquis

With 6 alive it takes 4 votes to lynch.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-10-03 16:00:00)

Deadline expired, btw, you won.

[Bingle]

My whole hood was town too!

[Bingle]

My whole hood was town too!

Live and kill by the Abandoned Warehouse.

[Bingle]

Oh right

But still idk head in sand, wouldn't have changed much

I was seriously considering it

You made the right call, I think.

I very nearly shot Vecna instead of you.

[Bingle]

“His utility is when he can reevaluate”

Get outta my head.

I’ve never had to deal with ScumJingle, and I think pockets are comfy. I was sitting in that pocket, trying to solve the game looking outside to everyone else.

JJD - we should never second doubt each other again. we had each other correct for so long.

I've modded you in games for 6 years. If I wasn't in your head by now I think that ship would have sailed long ago.