Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[skitter30]

Hey all!

@the wizard i have regular weekend vla on fridays and saturdays

VOTE: pm

[skitter30]

I actually didnt entirely understand what the second number was for

[skitter30]

I didnt even realize this wasnt the original x|y until i asked why we had to give in a second number and the mod was like '... because that's what the setup is' with a faint note of exasperation

[skitter30]

Heya aaron

[skitter30]

Lol. What for?

You know scum governor getting to LYLO is an instant scum win right?

I almost feel like scum wouldnt have gone for governor because it's such an obviously scummy pick

[skitter30]

Draft choice is such huge source of information. With double role pick {8,9,10,11} are able to find out which roles were taken by top players. It's obv that both {9,10} are scum.
VOTE: Aaron

Oh? How did you reach this conclusion?

[skitter30]

V true

[skitter30]

Also flub why are you voting ss rn?

[skitter30]

VOTE: Wooper

Scummy rvs vote

[skitter30]

Also flub why are you voting ss rn?

Scum trying to nk a way to out them if they quickhammer

Say this again?

[skitter30]

I don't think not having quickhammers in lylo is a tiny benefit

It's not the auto I imagined though

Shit

UNVOTE:

I think it's significantly better for town to know if there's a governor than for town to know

Also scum has like the whole game to sort out if there's a governor before lylo, i dont think they need to conspicuously ask avout this on p1 in order to resolve that potential problem in lylo

I'm not sure why this is the motivation that you got out of ss's post, i'm not sure scum really start the game with that intent in particular really? Like it's such a narrow concern that i dont think that's the first thing on their mind when starting the game

[skitter30]

VOTE: Wooper

Scummy rvs vote

In what way?

There were other interesting things to talk about at that point, but you went for the empty rvs vote

[skitter30]

Ok, what was your reasoning?

[skitter30]

Hence my unvote

What's the problem here?

Noting that i dont find your thought process particularly believable

You feel ~pricklier~ than normal

[skitter30]

Ok, what was your reasoning?

I'd rather not discuss it overtly at the moment, though I think it should be somewhat easily inferred. Happy to discuss a bit further down the road.

Unless you were trying to reaction test him in some way, i'm not sure what you were going for there

If it was a reaction test, i dont think it was a very successful one

One tell that i've been keeping an eye on is how scum enter the thread - i find that if they havent posted before the game has started to move out of rvs, scum will sometimes pop in with a naked vote and/or small genetic greeting. It's a p decent tell, and it's netted me scum in the past. This post kinda fit the bill

[skitter30]

So i am going to come after you for that reasoning, to make it sure actually, like, exists

[skitter30]

Draft choice is such huge source of information. With double role pick {8,9,10,11} are able to find out which roles were taken by top players. It's obv that both {9,10} are scum.
VOTE: Aaron

Interesting take. Not entirely sure what you mean here but I guess this begs the question of whether or not scum would be allowed to coordinate their draft picks.

I was scum in the last iteration of pyp, and they can

Lol. What for?

You know scum governor getting to LYLO is an instant scum win right?

I almost feel like scum wouldnt have gone for governor because it's such an obviously scummy pick

I don't think anyone would seriously choose 1-shot governor over a joat regardless of alignment.

I feel like some sorts of players would go for governor anyways. I also forgot what it was paired with, ao fair point

[skitter30]

So i am going to come after you for that reasoning, to make it sure actually, like, exists

See above.

Let me finish reading

[skitter30]

I would make a strong case for taking it as scum and claiming JOAT. The only JOAT ability you'd have to explain away would be the vig.

Oh yeah this is a good idea too, but that player would probably have to be very confident and believe that they're likely to be alive in lylo

[skitter30]

So i am going to come after you for that reasoning, to make it sure actually, like, exists

See above.

Let me finish reading

Are you asking me to cease posting until such time?

No i'm saying i'll answer you when i catch up

[skitter30]

VOTE: Wooper

Scummy rvs vote

If you think its scummy why'd you keep your vote on your random target?

VOTE: Skitter

Werent you just voting suij for havint a bad response to me saying his rvs vote was bad?

[skitter30]

Be back in a few min

[skitter30]

Draft choice is such huge source of information. With double role pick {8,9,10,11} are able to find out which roles were taken by top players. It's obv that both {9,10} are scum.
VOTE: Aaron

Oh? How did you reach this conclusion?

If they got 3 picks in sequence on the middle of list, then they can pick 3 different powerful roles as first choice. If they failed to get some of them, then they know, which roles were selected by #1/#2 picks. In this mode there is no riskin doing so, bc they still got second choice. The fact that we got exactly 9, 10 and 11 is odd, such perfect randomness in kind of high numbers.

i mean didn't we get most numbers between 1-12 i want to say (i remember a few were skipped, but i don't remember which offhand)

i feel like in general scum would try to aim for a number they think would put them at the front of the draft

there's a lot of wacky things scum ~could~ do, but i don't think they actually do them in practice (for ex: doubling up. i don't think that scum usually knowingly sacrifices the chance at getting a good draft for the anti-associatives)

in 732 scum actually got 3 picks in a row, but we didn't do it on purpose at all
it was kinda useful tho, ngl

[skitter30]

I think Kerset is town for a really dumb reason.

do tell

[skitter30]

Where's the wooper scooper?

Want an opinion on skitter from him.

he's going to tell you that it's too early to read me and that i'm still well in my scumrange

[skitter30]

suji irregarldess of your alignment i like how you play/interact with ppl/your posting style

[skitter30]

i don't get the townreads on kerset rn

[skitter30]

Ok sick.

Also want to hear from rb bc either him or flub should have taken my first choice but they didn't.

i mean ok? you're just going to believe me?

[skitter30]

flubb why do you feel so different rn from like the last at least two times that i've played with you?

[skitter30]

Scum have intentionally collided in previous PYP games if memory serves me right.

really? i feel like it's ridiculously suboptimal as scum

[skitter30]

nom you feel weird rn

[skitter30]

I can get behind this.
VOTE: S_S

do you agree with ss being obvious scum or ... ?
if yes why is he obvious scum?

[skitter30]

Why is Something_Smart obvious scum (The fact that I have to ask that question means it likely isn't obvious, so let's just go with "Why is Something_Smart scum")?

Because S_S doesn't like scum and is honestly not the best at it. Sure, he's decent but he's no god. The thing S_S is gonna do here is instantly go into mech talk because mech talk is the most simple thing you can do to try and appear busy when really you're not. It's not helping and something I can see scum him going for right away. He's made one townread for 'a stupid reason' but that's it and doesn't go into more detail. Really, we should drop this and force people to play. Anyone regardless of your alignment or how bad you are can talk mech. Not everyone can be decent at mafia. Let's force people to play the game

this is ... probably wrong the wrong approach to reading him but probably townie anyways

[skitter30]

But in hindsight skitter really is working against 'more info early day 1' which seems a little bit of busywork.

I'm not going to ask for claims however, I have issues with the fact that I got my first choice and was not 1st or 2nd. Going to need some serious reasoning from people on why their choices were town motivated from the two above me.

bolded: idk what you mean by this
second paragraph: rolefishing much, are you?

[skitter30]

VOTE: Wooper

Scummy rvs vote

If you think its scummy why'd you keep your vote on your random target?

VOTE: Skitter

Solid point actually.

again, you realize he went from voting suji for having a bad reaction to my vote to voting me for making it

also i realized i didn't answer billy's question earlier: idk i sometimes take a while to move my vote out of rvs

[skitter30]

I didnt even realize this wasnt the original x|y until i asked why we had to give in a second number and the mod was like '... because that's what the setup is' with a faint note of exasperation

Do not quote mod messages.

whoops, sorry, thought i was paraphrasing

[skitter30]

VOTE: Nomx3

I don’t like her setup spec at all, and then sheeping the SS vote after the setup spec nonsense got called out doesn’t feel very nice. I also didn’t like her response to Frost’s vote.

agree

Glancing through the thread I don’t feel great about Skitter either. I think frost is Town atm. Flubber seems Town as well. Null on everyone else atm.

Oh yeah, slight scumread on Suj as well.

do tell on all 4 of these ^

[skitter30]

The setup spec discussion is flying a bit over my head, I'll be honest

So you think this is a lie, and that they were just waiting for an opportunity to jump in?

Bc everything after this looks like trying to have some sort of voice given that people were refusing to drop setup discussion.

i feel like she's purposefully laying low which is not what i'm used to from her
and i agree that the sheep was weird

[skitter30]

wtf is a deepwolf?

someone who can play scum well and get widely townread and is expected/set up to make endgame

is this like a new term? i feel like this has been asked a lot recently

also i think luca came out better than you in your spat with him

[skitter30]

Unless you were trying to reaction test him in some way, i'm not sure what you were going for there

It was actually to see how the wagon built as he was the largest (though not by a large amount, which was part of the draw) at the time. That ultimately did not work out, so I don't mind disclosing at this point.

yeah this is kinda why i read it as oppurtunistic, and why it kinda fit that scumtell i was talking about early
not sure if scum are so forthright about admitting their reasoning like this tho ^

[skitter30]

the game has started to move out of rvs

Can you clarify how you define this?

when people stop just making greetings and random votes based on things like username, and when discussion starts happening

[skitter30]

I don't know why but I'm getting strong town vibes from Sirfetchd

no

[skitter30]

But in hindsight skitter really is working against 'more info early day 1' which seems a little bit of busywork.

I'm not going to ask for claims however, I have issues with the fact that I got my first choice and was not 1st or 2nd. Going to need some serious reasoning from people on why their choices were town motivated from the two above me.

bolded: idk what you mean by this
second paragraph: rolefishing much, are you?

I mean stifling discussion is antitown.
No, but I want strong reasoning from them as to why I got my first choice being after them when it comes time to do claims.

i wasn't stifling discussion? where do you think i was doing that?

[skitter30]

i am caught up!

VOTE: billy

this weekend is going to be kinda crazy, and i have weekend vla ... so not sure when i'll be here next, hopefully saturday night

[skitter30]

I think Kerset is town for a really dumb reason.

do tell

100

yeah i saw that later
i've had one of those really ~exhausting~ days and i'm not sure i've actually processed what youv'e said there so this is a note for me to come back and look at it later

Unless you were trying to reaction test him in some way, i'm not sure what you were going for there

It was actually to see how the wagon built as he was the largest (though not by a large amount, which was part of the draw) at the time. That ultimately did not work out, so I don't mind disclosing at this point.

yeah this is kinda why i read it as oppurtunistic, and why it kinda fit that scumtell i was talking about early
not sure if scum are so forthright about admitting their reasoning like this tho ^

I'm not sure why this would be a scumtell.

scum dont' like to make waves, it's easier for them to make a empty vote on an already-existing wagon than to contribute

[skitter30]

really? i feel like it's ridiculously suboptimal as scum

The advantage from WIFOM is almost tautologically proportional to the harm it causes them.

i think this depends on the scumteam/player and that most people wouldn't do this

the game has started to move out of rvs

Can you clarify how you define this?

when people stop just making greetings and random votes based on things like username, and when discussion starts happening

I think you are projecting your observation of the gamestate to others rather than understanding their own. If someone comes into a game with content that they were not a part of, nor they have made themselves, why are they assumed to have to delve straight into said content rather than participate in a manner that allows them to acclimate to the game.

ehhhhhh this is maybe a fair point
you can be town for now

[skitter30]

I think you are projecting your observation of the gamestate to others rather than understanding their own. If someone comes into a game with content that they were not a part of, nor they have made themselves, why are they assumed to have to delve straight into said content rather than participate in a manner that allows them to acclimate to the game.

I mean she said it was due to experience, not deduction, so I don't really see how her opinion of the gamestate affects that.

????

[skitter30]

scum dont' like to make waves, it's easier for them to make a empty vote on an already-existing wagon than to contribute

Voting on the leading wagon in order to make it larger is an "empty vote that doesn't make waves?"

it depends what stage the wagon is, but yeah sliding in the ~third or fourth vote doesn't tend to seem conspicuous (it's just an rvs wagon!) but they've gotten their feet wet, and it has the added bonus of building a wagon (that if they're lucky might get dangerously close to lynch)

but i don't think that scum admit 'hi i deliberately voted the largest wagon to make it larger' which is why i gave you townpoints for it

[skitter30]

Skit reads fairly town here, in my opinion.

To answer both Aaron and Skit, no I don't think S_S was obvious scum, but I had a bad feeling regarding his posts concerning setup spec. I'm not sure "the posts were negative and shooting down theories constantly" makes sense but that's probably how I'd put into words. As scum I do that fairly often, I tend to get angry really fast, try to shut down setup theories or at least approach them with a very negative mind ("It's that's true then why did you do this? You must be scum!"). That's what I did in Cats with Nero Cain regarding his night actions and his viability as a town!rolecop if you remember Skitter. I get the same vibe from S_S, so I feel pressure is deserved there.

I feel buddied

[skitter30]

Skit reads fairly town here, in my opinion.

To answer both Aaron and Skit, no I don't think S_S was obvious scum, but I had a bad feeling regarding his posts concerning setup spec. I'm not sure "the posts were negative and shooting down theories constantly" makes sense but that's probably how I'd put into words. As scum I do that fairly often, I tend to get angry really fast, try to shut down setup theories or at least approach them with a very negative mind ("It's that's true then why did you do this? You must be scum!"). That's what I did in Cats with Nero Cain regarding his night actions and his viability as a town!rolecop if you remember Skitter. I get the same vibe from S_S, so I feel pressure is deserved there.

I feel buddied

@nom

[skitter30]

Hence my unvote

What's the problem here?

Noting that i dont find your thought process particularly believable

You feel ~pricklier~ than normal

No points for guessing why

I dont understand what you're trying to say

[skitter30]

flubb why do you feel so different rn from like the last at least two times that i've played with you?

Because I'm not a VT?

You get more aggressive and like confident when you arent vt?

[skitter30]

I don't know why but I'm getting strong town vibes from Sirfetchd

no

Do you disagree with every townread over here?

Just the ones i dont like

[skitter30]

Was expecting some sort of response, yeah

[skitter30]

What kind of response? "I'm town, so I'm not buddying you"?

Idk what kind of response exactly, but i was hoping for some kind of interesting reaction

[skitter30]

What about this post makes you think nom is buddying you? Feels like a weird accusation to make here.

- she knows i have a decent scumgame, the townread feels premature
- i feel like she's trying to appeal to me by bringing up cats
- her last two scumgames she's behaved ~weirdly~ aroud me, the last in particular she particularky tried to buddy me and to get me to townread her and get me off her slot's back and so townread me p early and sheeped me when i pushed her partner and so i'm feeling wary rn

[skitter30]

Aaron feels weird rn

[skitter30]

Aaron feels weird rn

Spoiler:

Idk why, other than you feel different than that normal from like a month ago. Granted i was scum there, but eh you felt ~obvtownie~ to the point i couldnt really push you easily

Aaron feels weird rn

Strange thing to say after #271. Sounds like 'no u'.

Ok

[skitter30]

You're playing VERY different right now. I'd have a hard time showing what exactly is different I think, but it boils down to intuition.

I know your scumgame is competent, but I believe this ain't your scumgame. As simple as that.

Fair, i am playing p differently as compared to that game

I still kinda wary tho

[skitter30]

Nom, I don’t think you explained your Flub scumread? If not, could you do so please.

It's stupid (and don't take this the wrong way Flubb) but in the two games I've played with him Flubb has been completely useless in terms of posting and helping, so seeing him post a lot like this raised a lot of flags in my head. That's basically it lol

Ya i agree with this

[skitter30]

I didnt say you were scum for it, i'm agreeing with nom's obversation that you're playing extremely differently and thus trying to prod a bit

[skitter30]

i'm going to catch up tom

[skitter30]

Don't really like your response to Kerset here.

VOTE: skitter

ok

would u like to explain why or ... ?

==

Ok catching up from my absence.
@nom - in 89, what part of the setup spec was flying over your head?

not really the setup, more like the numbers discussion I'd say.

y do u feel so much more passive than i'm used to ?

[skitter30]

Glancing through the thread I don’t feel great about Skitter either. I think frost is Town atm. Flubber seems Town as well. Null on everyone else atm.

I am suprised that someone as active as skitter skipped 144.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Nomx3

I don’t like her setup spec at all, and then sheeping the SS vote after the setup spec nonsense got called out doesn’t feel very nice. I also didn’t like her response to Frost’s vote.

agree

Glancing through the thread I don’t feel great about Skitter either. I think frost is Town atm. Flubber seems Town as well. Null on everyone else atm.

Oh yeah, slight scumread on Suj as well.

do tell on all 4 of these ^

[skitter30]

i kinda changed my mind on maria

Why is S_S obvious scum to some of you people? I overblew the read a little bit just so you guys would get off the awful mech talk. So seeing ‘obvious’ is strange. I do like nomnoms answer but the others are hmmm

i'm p sure you're the only person calling him obvscum (?)
so this is a kinda weird backtrack from your initial vote on him

=

@Skitt - where did I vote Suji? You made that accusation twice, but I dont think its true.

... 60

@Skitt - my bad, just re-read my posts and saw it. I think work broke my brain on Friday.

i mean did you forget that you were voting him or ... ?

=

Billy seems town

no

as for the draft, i had no idea what i was doing so i picked 69 because LMAO SEX NUMBER

this feels fake/over-explained/like you feel the need to justify your pick/idk the right words

actually need to check something on skitter

do tell

I think Luca is entirely wrong about most of their reads

i am bothered

why does this bother you

[skitter30]

you know, i think kerset is pretty likely to be scum here

because it's like a soft accusation that i'm scum, but never actually says it. it's like, "haha oh yeah sure, you "forgot" - the natural follow-up would be to then say why they think i'm lying? or think i'm scum?

also: their only focus on all the content i've provided so far is not any of the opinions i've had about the game, but literally just the post in which i said, "i'm backreading"

this doesn't scan to me as town, whether new player or not.

VOTE: kerset

i hate like all of your posts

[skitter30]

@Luca: what previous experience do you have with Aaron that justifies him both having reasonable expectations of your typical towngame, and also, do you think that his confidence you're town is justified by your performance in this game based on that previous experience?

Two games previous, one where I was scum and he was town, and one where I was town and he was scum.

Kerset could be scum. They parked their vote on me pretty early for weak reasoning and posts have been mostly fluff other than early game setup spec.

are you really that confident in a townread on someone based on a sample size of one town game?

moreover, wouldn't you expect that Luca would probably go out of their way to appear reminiscent of their towngame to someone with a limited sample size to go off?

um this is p manipulative

[skitter30]

ok i think rb's side of the rb/aaron interaction on p15 is p slimy

[skitter30]

VOTE: rb

[skitter30]

nom does actually have a point there tbh

[skitter30]

skitter you're starting to look like you're trying to hedge me as a lynch option.

ok

that's not how i'd be interacting with your slot as scum here, but sure

[skitter30]

ok

[skitter30]

@Aaron: how likely do you think it is that Luca is buddying you?

Why do you ask? Do you think that just because he's townreading me that means he buddying me? It's feels more like you're trying to buddy me right now which is weird given that one of the first things you did was join my wagon.

i think he was buddying you to get you to join his wagon

[skitter30]

his convo with you / about luca was very slimy

[skitter30]

apparently

[skitter30]

can i interest you in voting rb with me?

[skitter30]

i'm more interested in rb rn

i do agree with you that flubb's behaving weird af but i don't know if that's because he's a pr or scum

[skitter30]

i don't really have an opinion on kerset really

[skitter30]

ya i kinda skimmed part of it

i'm having trouble being ~into~ / ~ processing~ mafia today due to irl stuff

i will reread it at some point

the parts of rb that i read (esp. his convo with aaron) i didn't much like

[skitter30]

i'll reread it later

i think rb is being manipulative / buddying-y tho and would prefer that for now since i really don't have thoughts on kerset

[skitter30]

what do you mean by 'low ratio' exactly?

[skitter30]

what do you mean by 'low ratio' exactly?

Picture this: someone's accusations or slight shades against people, and what they vote, can be seen as a ratio. I see it as a vote/shade ratio, where you can see what someone says in regards to people that could be seen as shading or outright accusation, and where they vote. In Kerset's case, their iso is full to the brim with shading and accusations, but the only vote that they've made is against rb. That would mean a 1/X ratio which is extremely low. A low ratio indicates someone that is more worried about finding reasons to shade and point fingers at people, rather than analyzing things and saying "yeah, let's vote here".

It's somewhat linked to "voting entropy", the amount of times someone changes their vote. I think townies hit that sweet spot with the amount of times they vote/unvote whereas scum feels more calculated (low entropy) or very loose (high entropy). Again, stupid theory stuff, just constructing mafia theories in my own side but this is what I've been thinking about when analyzing games

interesting theory, a few questions:

a) what is my ratio?
b) have you applied this theory before and if so, what were your results? do you have examples of where low ration == scum?

[skitter30]

rb does feel verbose but I need to think about that.

I think Kerset's end of the interaction was very odd for sure. I'll even go ahead and VOTE: Kerset. That iso is textbook pessimistic scum having a very low vote/fos ratio. I think the key to decoding rb is actually residing in Kerset's wall.

ok

i reread:

a) rb is verbose, sure, but that's not what i'm particularly taking issue with, it's that his posts are manipulative and seemed designed to 1. get aaron to doubt his townread of luca 2. buddy aaron

b) this is why i found rb to be scummy

c) i still don't particularly have thoguhts on kerset. i read their convo a few times and it just kinda ~is~

[skitter30]

just +1ing rb is town
idk abt kerset yet but finding out is half the fun~!

disagree

[skitter30]

So which is the case? Do I only talk about state of town and mech or maybe i throw a lot of accusations at people? That is contradiction for me.

you're creating a fairly thin distinction that is all but irrelevant given what nom and rb are actually saying about you

@nom this is the scummiest thing i've seen kerset do thus far ^

[skitter30]

a) rb is verbose, sure, but that's not what i'm particularly taking issue with, it's that his posts are manipulative and seemed designed to 1. get aaron to doubt his townread of luca 2. buddy aaron

also nom what do you think about this?

[skitter30]

b) I don't think so. I'm a much more emotional player. I "feel" rather than analyze. These are observations with the games I've went through rather than something I applied over and over, but I do feel it holds water.

this is a fascinating theory but i'm not sure, overall, how much stock i actually put into it in practice

kerset how much mafia experience do u have

[skitter30]

As for your first point it didn't jump to me as much because I don't think of discussion that way.

are you really that confident in a townread on someone based on a sample size of one town game?

moreover, wouldn't you expect that Luca would probably go out of their way to appear reminiscent of their towngame to someone with a limited sample size to go off?

this sequence seems designed to get aaron to question his townread ? i'm not sure how else you can even read this

[skitter30]

Second point is much more indicative of someone that's snarkily inviting people to do things, rather than buddying. That's how I see this interaction in particular.

maybe buddying is the wrong word exactly

but he's like ~trying to get aaron to be comfortable with him and his train of thought and get him to question his own reads and vote with him ~ so idk what to call that

if rb is scum i don't think aaron is ever

[skitter30]

apparently nom isn't reading it that way

[skitter30]

It’s good to see Nom getting more involved but I’m still not feeling those townie vibes, I can’t quite put my finger on it.

i'm not either

[skitter30]

idk

i don't really and it feels manipulative to me and i don't like it

[skitter30]

Sure thing!

VOTE: Something_Smart

meh this is townie, i think

[skitter30]

I don't think it's manipulative? Like he's not trying to trick Aaron into weakening his Luca townread.

He's straight up trying to break down the read.

It's not as though Aaron might change his read without realizing why he had changed it or that rb was trying to get him to change it.

Maybe we're using the word manipulative differently

I dont like the way he's going about the bolded

[skitter30]

I really hate realists but you are refs top scum read and skitter is second. But that doesn't mean I need to force a

Lynch on either of you today because 1. I could be wrong,

and 2. There's another scum out there even if I'm right and I only have two reads I believe in, in any capacity.

Is this how you normally approach day1?
Like when do you decide it's time to start pushing your scumreads, exactly?

[skitter30]

I'm not sure i get the kerset scumreads

I'm not sure why what he's doing is scum-indicative and not (new ?) playstyle indicative

Kerset i think i asked this but i'm not sure if you answered: how much mafia experience do you have?

[skitter30]

i'll reread it later

i think rb is being manipulative / buddying-y tho and would prefer that for now since i really don't have thoughts on kerset

can you please outline how you can simultaneously insist that you have not paid much attention to our interaction, but also be so resistant to any idea from other slots that have apparently paid attention to it: that kerset is not scum and yet i am likely to be?

nomnom brings up similar points to what i did?

are they also scummy?

line of thinking does not compute

A) i initially skimmed your back and forth with kerset (which i subsequently reread). When i skimmed, and when i reread, i largely didnt, and dont, get why kerset is being pushed. I dont think he's been particularly scummy.

B) the part that i'm objecting to is your interaction with aaron.

C) i'm feeling dubious of nom now, yes

[skitter30]

I dont like the way he's going about the bolded

What about it don't you like?

Because i dont know why town tries to undermine/break down a townread

[skitter30]

Ah classic skitter doubting me all game long just because of that one normal that traumatized her lol

I mean ... it worked for me last time so

[skitter30]

I mean should i not be wary rn or ...

Do you think i should be townreading you?

[skitter30]

if you read my posts you'll see that i think luca is also a scumread of mine

Maybe this is the part i missed while skimming because i have like no recollection of this being the case

That interaction makes more sense then, i guess

I looked at your iso and i found these:

I want luca to be scum because then this game would be ez solve

do something scummy imo

I think Luca is entirely wrong about most of their reads

i am bothered

Is the latter quote supposed to imply that you're scumreading him?
I think i actually asked about this but didnt get an answer - why is mot understanding his reads scum indicatice

[skitter30]

i think your play lacks direction, despite knowing that you're usually a capable and matter of fact player as town who states what they think and pushes in the direction they believe will hit scum.

it's possible that i'm overestimating your townplay, or that you just aren't really pinging heavily on a scumread yet and so aren't the town player i'm used to. nothing you've said really pings me as you being either alignment, which is why i said earlier "i hope Luca's scum because then this game would make a lot more sense"

- i think you're overestimating his towngame
- this seems in line with his towngame that i've seen before
- i'm not sure why you're characterizing his play as lacking direction, or what that even means in this context

[skitter30]

Rb what is your current read on kerser exactly

[skitter30]

Ya i'm not sure kerset's being anything more than 'awkward new'

[skitter30]

what i wanna know is why something smart scumreads billy

and why we shouldn't lynch something smart

Why should we lynch something smart

Luca is town, i think

[skitter30]

who do you actually scumread and why?

You, but i'm not so sure of that anymore
Billy
Sirfetched
Aaron

You and aaron dont make sense together tho

[skitter30]

there's awkward new and there's awkward new scum

And what makes it the latter ...

[skitter30]

what i wanna know is why something smart scumreads billy

and why we shouldn't lynch something smart

Why should we lynch something smart

Luca is town, i think

nah, i'm done answering questions for you to restate the same questions at this point until you actually provide content of your own

complaining about other people having reads isn't a substitute for you actually having reads.

I think i've been providing content and have reads, ty

[skitter30]

which town games did you see before?

Mini 2101 i think, it ended like two weeks ago, the one sky/tw modded

Incidentally i was scum there, but i'm not sure that's particularly relevant to the subject at hand

[skitter30]

which town games did you see before?

Mini 2101 i think, it ended like two weeks ago, the one sky/tw modded

Incidentally i was scum there, but i'm not sure that's particularly relevant to the subject at hand

If anything i think he's being townier here than there

He only wasnt mislynched there cuz i faked an inno on him

[skitter30]

@nom3 When you shaded s_s, skitter and flubb you compared their gameplay to their previous games. When you scumread me you compared me to yourself and your general theories. Why didn't you compare me to my previous games like you did with others?

Like even this post - i dont think this is the sort of post newb scum makes.
I think he actually wants nom to explain it, and it's more important to him than a lot of what elss is going on inthread rn (like, say, the current rb/kerset discussion)

Like i dont think newbscum focuses on this when they should be focusing on like getting the wagon off of them. This doesnt help that. I think he's asking because he doesnt get nom's approach here, and that's more important to him than anything else rn

I dont think this comes from scum

[skitter30]

ok, why?

He has thoughts that make sense in the current gamestate, there his posts were always just running perpendicular to the consensus ... not sure if i explained that well

Idk who i want to lynch yet

[skitter30]

who is the scummiest player in the game then?

Probably aaron or bilky

I havent read any of kerset's previous games

[skitter30]

I'm at work so i'll get to that later @nom

[skitter30]

No ... that was luca

I dont know anything about kerset, i've never seen them before

[skitter30]

Cool

[skitter30]

I'll try to do that later

[skitter30]

The statement on top of that can be read as an attempt to discredit me: on top of playing in my own set of established rule (with my theory as bogus as it might be), they're trying to *logically* prove that I don't apply the same standards to them as opposed to others, which is a very efficient discrediting tactic if you're trying to show someone is biased. So I am not sure this comes from town.

idk

i don't think this is the tack newbscum takes here. i think they focus more on the wagon and try to like ~not be~ wagoned

he doesn't actually seem to care about being wagoned that much, more about understanding the logic that's being used against him

[skitter30]

I'm still honestly confused by your Billy scumread

pedit: I have doubts on Skitter scum, I have empirical evidence that she tends to make weird reads based on a few factors

it's a read that's getting a little stale i think

but i dont' like how he basically went from voting suji for his bad reaction to my initial vote on him and then went to ~voting me for making that vote ~

it looks like he reread the game and forgot what his original position was, and made up a new one.

like i don't know how he gets to the exact opposite conclusion there when he reads the same posts a couple of different times

[skitter30]

verified town!kerset: has thoughts, pushes in the direction of those thoughts, calls people out when they think they are being poor town members and then PUTS THEIR VOTE ON THEM

During both of my D1 i placed vote exactly 3 times. One on the beginning, second midway and third near the end of the day. You lie if you find any difference here.

i'm going to check out his towngame when i finish catching up

[skitter30]

thanks, i appreciate that

[skitter30]

I don’t think I was ever close to being lynched in that game, inno or not.

yeah you're right, sorry, i was in a rush and that became shorthand for 'got taken out of the lynchpool because of the fact i fake-inno'd him', which is more accurate

[skitter30]

And again that's something guilty people do, there are studies about how people that know they are in the wrong or did something bad will feign ignorance or not directly challenge subtler accusations against them. The subtle accusation that I made against Kerset (the fact that they shade people which is inherently a scummy tactic) was never challenged not even once. I'm inclined to believe that this is because Kerset is scum.

If someone was town and innocent you'd be sure that Kerset would be confused as hell with my whacky theories and say something like "what the hell are you on about???" especially as a new player but that did not happen. This is textbook guilty behavior.

idk
but this isn't how i'm reading the situation
and maybe i'm doing a bad job putting it in words but like he isn't defensive like ~at all~. he doesn't really react to the wagon, or question the votes, or like start flailing
he just seems interested in getting his questions answered, and like that's the main thing he cares about

also i'm not sure how often i've seen scum behave in the model you've described.

like his current tactic/mode of playing is getting bad responses, he's getting wagoned. that isn't altering how he's playing or how he's interacting with the thread at all. he's still approaching it the exact same way ... just trying to get his questions answered and to understand the logic that's being thrown about. i feel like scum does ~something~ in response here, and he isn't

also i kinda have a theory but i'm not sure it's really like ~right~ to say it so i prob won't

[skitter30]

hot take: luca is scum and kerset and I are both town

or more collaboratively: suppose i was wrong about kerset, and we were both town. how would the rest of you feel about Luca's angle on our slots?

So now you're backtracking? How did you come to this conclusion?

yeah that was the quote that confused me too

[skitter30]

I dont like the rb wagon right now. My read came around on that. Aaron isnt a bad vote at the moment, but I think Kerset is the best chance for scum at the moment.

a) what do u think of the fact that i was voting rb
b) i feel like you're positioning yourself to get onto aaron if that wagon ever happens, which i find to be a convenient read to have given that several other people have stated scumreads on aaron

[skitter30]

who is the scummiest player in the game then?

Probably aaron or bilky

I havent read any of kerset's previous games

I feel like you've been shading me a bit but haven't actually pushed me or even voted for me.

i don't really think i've been shading you

a) you feel ~very~ different to the last game we played
b) i'm not sure what the right words are exactly, but you're like reacting to the wrong things? the reasons for your early votes feel kinda fabricated.

[skitter30]

I might be misremembering but I have the impression in my head that

skitter was originally defending Kerset because of bad reasoning

used against them but at some point switched to a bona fide townread when the pressure ramped up. If it really did happen that way, it's a whiteknighting pattern.

well more that i didn't really get the reasoning against him

[skitter30]

I think that I will have better read on him during D2 (either here or in dead chat).

do u think ur getting lynched today?

[skitter30]

a) Fair criticism. I am playing differently than I did in 2099.

b) Nothing fabricated here, but what kinds of things do you think I should be reacting to?

a) why are you playing differently?

b) i particularly disliked your nom vote and vote on me. I'm not sure why nom's flub vote was a voteworthy event
And the vote on me is one of the places i was thinking you reacted weirdly ...

Both of these felt like very ~snap~ reactions, if that makes sense

Oh i guess i figured out how to articulate the difference compared ro the mini - you feel a lot more reactive and like ~less thought ~ is going into your posts almost

[skitter30]

hot take: luca is scum and kerset and I are both town

or more collaboratively: suppose i was wrong about kerset, and we were both town. how would the rest of you feel about Luca's angle on our slots?

So now you're backtracking? How did you come to this conclusion?

yeah that was the quote that confused me too

it's a hypothetical, i wanted to involve people in the discussion who were townreading both kerset and myself

This was not clear to me at the time but when you say it like this i see what you were going for

[skitter30]

That's been my argument this whole time, ty

Billy i'm at work but i'll respond to ur post later

[skitter30]

I didnt word it that way but that's effectively what i'm getting at

[skitter30]

VOTE: Wooper

Scummy rvs vote

If you think its scummy why'd you keep your vote on your random target?

VOTE: Skitter

Werent you just voting suij for havint a bad response to me saying his rvs vote was bad?

^

[skitter30]

Oh i didnt actually vote suji there, my bad.

[skitter30]

That's why i voted him earlier

Not really

His response was that he hadnt made a suji vote ever, which i pointed out wasnt true and took issue with, and now we're having the current convo.

Although tbf i just magicked up a vote i didnt actually, like, make either so.

But i still dont like that he read the same set of posts and reached two opposite conclusions

[skitter30]

Another question.

it looks like he reread the game and forgot what his original position was, and made up a new one.

Why is this something scum are more likely to do than town?

Makes me feel like the thoughts arent real

[skitter30]

Makes me feel like the thoughts arent real

Why would he change his tune, other than because his opinion changed?

Unless you think he puts so little effort into his scumgame that he forgot what his position was and made something up rather than bothering to look back one page to check?

when i reread something, and new information hs been provided, i don't usually do a complete 180 and form the opposite opinion i did the first time

[skitter30]

*and no new information has been provided

[skitter30]

I think that I will have better read on him during D2 (either here or in dead chat).

do u think ur getting lynched today?

I looking at the VC and rb desire to death tunnel me. There are some odds.

i also don't think scum is this resigned/ok with getting lynched at this juncture ^

=

This looks like trying to debunk a scum read on them ie breaking their wagon down

i don't think so

VOTE: kerset

no

=

Skitt had never placed a vote on Suji, which in retrospect given the interaction felt worse.

it made the interaction feel worse because ...

I didn't like your push w/o a vote and I didnt like Suji's initial response.

i don't get it

your original post seemed to agree with my pov, your latter one seemed to agree with suji. i don't get how you went from one to the other

Once I decided to give Suji more time, it became more pressing to sort your slot over the push w/o a vote.

like in your original post you don't express this concern with my play, you seem to be agreeing with me

and why is pushing someone without a vote on p4 scummy exactly?

=

also what happened to suji?

[skitter30]

when i reread something, and new information hs been provided, i don't usually do a complete 180 and form the opposite opinion i did the first time

But you and Billy are not the same person.

I bet you wouldn't do what he did if you were scum, either, right?

no, i wouldn't

but i also feel like this isn't something most people do, not just me ?

[skitter30]

I think that's a fair criticism of my play here and I think part of the reason I've been 'snappier' here is because of stress in my irl life and when I get stressed I tend to snap at people without realizing it.

i actually meant 'snappy' in the sense of 'quick, not being thought-out', and not in the sense of being 'short or upset with someone'

=

So, scum Skitter wouldn't really coach per-say.

i would with some players

Although, in that game, there was an argument between Skitter and Robb on Day 3 which was forced due to one of them mass claiming and the other refusing to claim.

i didn't go out of my way to pick that argument, i have no idea why he didn't claim there

So, in general, I think that if skitter were to be scum, then rb would be as well.

while i do pick fights with scum partners sometimes, i find this to be a p shoddy associative read

=

Hm, the Billy wagon isn't bad. Not my first choice from my notes but the information is good enough for me to join
VOTE: Billy

um this vote is mildly creepy

=

This some bs right here.

disagree

[skitter30]

i also don't think scum is this resigned/ok with getting lynched at this juncture ^

I think that's insanely wrong and I've seen people do this all the time and I was told not to freak out when people started a wagon on me in my first game, where I was scum, and I was approaching being the day 1 lynch really fast. You also have to remember that this is not a L-1 or anything, just one or two people that were pushing Kerset as scum when a few people pushed rb as manipulative previously, so there's a lot of relief to be had.

I think that assuming scums would freak out here is a completely wrong statement to make especially when you take the psychology of people that are guilty into consideration.

i'm not exactly assuming that he'd freak out, so much that i don't expect scum to be like 'oh i don't know player x's alignment but i guess i'll find out day2 in the dead thread'
randomly when throwing out a readslist, scum aren't so like ~accepting~ of getting lynched that they casually acknowledge it like this when talking about something else completely irrelevant

i get that you're pulling from like psychological studies of how guilty people behave or whatever but in the ~many~ mafia games i've played this isn't something i've seen scum do much at all

i'm kinda in a rush so i don't think i explained what i meant super well here but i'll try again later tonight if i didn't get across what i was trying to say; i'll finish catching up later too

[skitter30]

Luca's town, which is nice I guess.

yes

=

Unvote, Vote: skitter

This is mostly historical as it's looking like a bit of a one or the other and I had/have a scum read on skit.

oh, do explain

and how does this fit in with you trying to make wagons happen / wanting wagons to happen?

It's my favourite of the people with votes already on them. So I'm consolidating on to my favourite of the wagons of the day.

... there's one vote on me

=

"I know a scum newbie when I see one, trust me,"

i'm p good at identifying newbtown

=

I may be misremembering, but from memory skitter is measured and works with people, including her reads to consolidate or debunk her reads. Here she is posting like I would expect a completely different style of player to post.

a) i've had several playstyles shifts recently, i'm largely in a pithy stream-of-conscious posting stage these days
b) have we, like, played before ?

=

How is being dead last in the draft order an indication that someone is scummy?

i think he means it makes billy a more attractive lynch all else being equal given that there's a fairly decent chance he's unpowered

=

oh yay i'm back to where i was earlier

[skitter30]

but i also feel like this isn't something most people do, not just me ?

No, you're right, it isn't something most people do.

But that's not the important question here. The important question is, is it something that a lot of people would do as scum but NOT as town? I think probably not.

? i think this behavior is significantly more likely to come from scum than town

=

I just realised Skitter is still voting rb.

Do you really think rb is the best Lynch for today? I find that hard to get my head around.

i could have sworn i unvoted
VOTE: billy

=

I don’t like Pm’s entrance or vote either. Meta isn’t the main point against Kerset - it’s a supporting point. Rb scumread Kerset before he ever looked at or mentioned their meta.

i kinda feel like pm is talking ~around~ things instead of engaging with the thread, if that makes sense ?

=

I'd actually argue that someone who is 100% logically consistent about their votes and their positions is more likely to be scum depending on their experience level.

ya at least for me as scum i'm very concerned with like matching sure all my thoughts ~line up~ and that i can articulate the thought process between like any two posts in case anyone asks

=

I sense that Billy isn’t the bussing type, so I don’t think he and Skitter are partners, but I would like to know exactly who Skitter wants to be lynched today.

billy
still want more from aaron too

[skitter30]

i don't know if everyone does/can play scum this way

[skitter30]

? i think this behavior is significantly more likely to come from scum than town

Why?

because if you read the same thing twice and are trying to figure out someone's alignment i dont' understand how you can come to totally opposite conclusions each time

like this just doesn't happen to me when i play town ...
that i like read the same twice in a relatively short timespan, without getting any new info, and feel different things about it each time.
i reread things to remind myself what i thought about it the first time because sometimes i forget and i nearly always have a very similar impression the second time around that i did the first time

[skitter30]

maybe after like dayphases / irl weeks pass and i have new information i read things with a new perspective but not in such a short timespan

[skitter30]

which micro

also i don't like xayah's vote either

[skitter30]

and what do you think i'm doing that's odd?

[skitter30]

oh ~that~ one

well i don't think i'm a paranoid person in general, only in a mafia sense

and i think i'm mostly paranoid of people that i think have good scumgames and/or have fooled me before (i.e. you, ank, the ducky, etc). i don't think that's a baseline for people i don't have much experience with
and i don't know anything about billy's scumgame

[skitter30]

@skitt: Yeah we've played a few times. But it's a HUGE SECRET who I am.

My playstyle has changed a lot
I dont know when u were active but i do a lot more real time and a lot less wallposting (although that's starting to come back too)

[skitter30]

looked like to me she was characterizing my vote on her as an OMGUS vote when it felt much more accurate to call her vote on me that.

I dont think i ever called your vote on me omgus
My vote on you was not omgus

[skitter30]

@Skitt - you keep saying I came to opposite conclusions from your 50. Show me that. Show me where I ever liked your 50? I thought Suji had a bad response (side note, wtf happened to Suji?) Why is it a flip in positions for me to be concerned about a bad response to a bad post?

Ok, what was your reasoning?

I'd rather not discuss it overtly at the moment, though I think it should be somewhat easily inferred. Happy to discuss a bit further down the road.

Had a minute during my lunch break. God I hate posts like this. I was initially confused by Skitter's post that your RVS was scummy,

but the explanation made alot of sense.

You then shade Skitt for assuming a scummy motivation rather than asking your reasons. Skitt then asks your reasons and you do this vague appeal to some reasoning that you will provide down the road? What can you possibly gain by holding it back? You're not informed unless you're scum, someone's already talked about the draft numbers. There wasnt a n0 action. Wtf are you talking about here?

VOTE: Suji

You go from saying my explanation made sense to voting me for my part of this interaction

[skitter30]

I would be interested in wagoning maria

[skitter30]

I don't think you have any way to point me as scum right now so I would also be interested in seeing a wagon attempt on me.

For starters, your billy vote felt band-wagon-y and oppurtunistic

[skitter30]

You don't need to write a novel. But I at least thought you'd give a sentence or two. Your reasoning holds no water until you can give that. I think the only reason people can 'suspect' me is because of the playstyle I'm choosing to go with this game. But, I'll wait and see.
pedit: See that's a start. To answer your point: A) Yes it was apart of a bandwagon B) If I was scum-mmm I won't go down that path it's wifom and not many people care to listen.
What makes me wanting to jump onto the wagon scummy? Do you not believe my reason?

you barely mentioned billy before and jumped on the wagon for information when the wagon existed when we're not really ready to end the day or anything, it's not like it was a compromise deadline lynch ...
i mean, should i be townreading this or

[skitter30]

i can kinda see an aaron/billy thing

[skitter30]

VOTE: Xayah because I forgot to in my other posts.

you're voting xayah over kerset here because ...

[skitter30]

won't lynch day1: Luca, skitter, nom, aaron

why are me and aaron out of your lynch pool?

[skitter30]

@mod proxy vote to skitter please

if you allow this kinda thing

i don't have motivation to solve this or ~try hard~ rn :/

[skitter30]

@skitter: what did you think of reading kerset's previous games?

nothing much

i don't think the games are as drastically different as you portrayed them to be

[skitter30]

i'm kinda skeeved out by both aaron and xayah but i don't think they're scum together

[skitter30]

cmon duck really. Skit is A-Grade garbage posting.

do tell

[skitter30]

i feel like i want to vote all of aaron, xayah, and billy, that's kinda why i'm feeling slightly ~anxious~ about the gamestate rn

[skitter30]

I don't expect to be tr for it. The reason I barely mention billy is because I don't have much on him in the first place. I didn't think at the moment I could get my confident scumread lynched. So I went with a good plan B.

i mean you didn't try to get aaron lynched at all

[skitter30]

Notice how other wagons took much more time to do so.

um both the xayah and aaron wagons have built p quickly just now

[skitter30]

I actually think maria's 951 and 955 are kinda townie
Or, at least, they resonate with me

[skitter30]

Notice how other wagons took much more time to do so.

um both the xayah and aaron wagons have built p quickly just now

Nom did you address this?

[skitter30]

Mmmm so you can't answer my question. That's already flag 1.
But sure, to answer my own question back at me. I'd say look into Billy at the moment. Kerset seems like a set up lynch considering I tr them Billy Aaron interactions don't look so good to me.
Nom would go right up to obv town with Aaron scum Kerset would also look good.

This is actually p good

[skitter30]

VOTE: Xayah because I forgot to in my other posts.

you're voting xayah over kerset here because ...

Because I think they're more likely to flip red.

Why aren't you voting Xayah? You've made it apparent that you're okay with lynching them.

Because at that point i was ok with both of you and i wasnt sure yet where to go if billh wasnt going to be a thing

[skitter30]

Other players had voiced concerns about my play and you could've started a wagon on me pretty easily if you had put a little more effort into pushing me, which I think you would've if you were town who legitimately thought I was scummy.

If she's scum why didnt she just try to take advantage of that tho

[skitter30]

‘If I’m scum who is it with?’

Btw that’s a really stupid question for D1.

Luca has improved all day honestly in retrospect. I'm sorry man.

Ya

[skitter30]

Xayah.

I’m not so sure it’s a town question though - it reminds me of how I used to play as scum. If you can’t logically prove that I’m scum then you have no right to vote me.

Maria doesn't focus on logic like that especially as scum. I don't think she's a good D1 lynch anyway and I don't think anything's wrong with that question for sure.

This is a really bad stance. Everyone should be lynchable every day because otherwise everyone just argues to be left alive and we get nowhere.

This is a silly argument to make and is kinda strawman-y

[skitter30]

Guys what are you doing? Are we going to ignore dodgy players just like that?

I could agree to pressure Suji, if you are interested.

This is something I can agree to. Nothing from his iso makes me think he’s Town and he’s been delaying his catch-up repeatedly.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Suji

I agree but i'm not sure this is the right time to start a wagon on him

[skitter30]

VOTE: Kerset

I was going to go on aaron

I dont feel like suji is a good use of our remaining time rn and i still dont really want kerset

[skitter30]

VOTE: aaron

[skitter30]

Suji is really worthy thing to push. If this is not right time to do this then why didn't you suggest it earlier? I think that with better attitude this is still possible.
VOTE: Suji

honestly i think he's just going to flake, tbh

[skitter30]

After reading Frost’s iso again I strongly feel he is Town and should definitely not be lynched today.

oh? do tell

[skitter30]

pm is p scummy

[skitter30]

billy's early posts are good fmpov

no, they really aren't

I think Billy is town yeah I don't think I have reads on any lurkslots aorn

pedit: yes /o/

disagree

=

rb was 1026 a bluff or what?

oh i actually thought it was townie that you ignored it at the time

=

oh yay wooper is town

i don't think that was a townie post for him
it wasn't particularly scummy either, but it wasn't a reason to townread him

[skitter30]

I don't think you have any way to point me as scum right now so I would also be interested in seeing a wagon attempt on me.

Yeah there's been this pattern of weirdness between nom and skitter where they both keep going after the same person on dubious grounds

do tell

[skitter30]

i guess part of me is stuck in that when i compare this game to the prior one i've played with town!him he feels ~quite~ different. he was kinda like obvtown there and very ... not agressive exactly, but more insistent on getting his pov across, he feels a lot more reactive here in comparison, and like he's just kinda posting without thinking about it too / the implications too much
i don't have meta on scum!him tho

i also don't particularly like his voting pattern

[skitter30]

i endorse the billy wagon

VOTE: billy

I hate everything rb has said in the past couple of pages

@ss i missed your post where you reacted to rb calling you out, i guess. I distinctly remember thinking it was townie that you didnt respond to it

@luca /aaron - i will check out aaron's scumgame, i dont have motivation to do that sort of legwork just now, hopefully soon

I still dont want to lynch xayah today

[skitter30]

Separated because the submit button disapears for me if the post becomes too long on mobile

Wooper - pm is being awful, i agree, but i dont think that's the best vote with the amount of time left. We ought to be consolidating

Luca is being obvtown

Sirfetched - why are you scumreading me, exactly?

Ok this has been a Jumble Of Thoughts (tm) and is roughly what i'm thinking now. I hope to be around tomorrow night before deadline

[skitter30]

@ss i missed your post where you reacted to rb calling you out, i guess. I distinctly remember thinking it was townie that you didnt respond to it

Why would you think that though? I try to respond to all questions directed at me as town, and I will usually only let something intentionally drop if I'm scum hoping it gets forgotten.

I didnt know that this is a thing for you ... i've never played with you, i dont think. Or at least not enough that i know ur meta

In a vaccuum i feel like scum is more likely to respond to that kind of bait

That going back thing doesnt seem to work for me

[skitter30]

Fair enough

[skitter30]

Separated because the submit button disapears for me if the post becomes too long on mobile

Wooper - pm is being awful, i agree, but i dont think that's the best vote with the amount of time left. We ought to be consolidating

Luca is being obvtown

Sirfetched - why are you scumreading me, exactly?

Ok this has been a Jumble Of Thoughts (tm) and is roughly what i'm thinking now. I hope to be around tomorrow night before deadline

Your stream of consciousness is regularly inaccurate or at least I think it's inaccurate, and you have said extremely little with the highest post count which says to me that you are saying very little.

disagree but ok

there's like ~5-6 hours left so we should be consoliating on a lynch by now...
if necessary i can switch to xayah but i would prefer billy

[skitter30]

could be if billy's scum and he's a partner he doesn't want to give support to that wagon if he can avoid it
i don't think kerset is viable rn

[skitter30]

but the nonvote is not great after barely being here for like a week

[skitter30]

The billy wagon fell apart at least once, and iirc it ended up on aaron/kerset. (And i think it happened again later with xayah? Not sure) I'm going to look into what happened there when i have a chance; there's v probably scum in the people who pushed those alternative wagons

[skitter30]

Aaron you should say L-1, when person is one vote away from lynch.

Why do you have a problem with this, exactly?

[skitter30]

It's a courtesy, not a rule, but it's just as polite to announce intent before hammering usually

But it was also like 6 hours to deadline or whatever so at that point it was kinda inevitable

I guess i'm kinda confused why you're calling out aaron and not suji there

Pedit @kerset

[skitter30]

@luca ya those were the main two that i was thinking of.
But i'm p sure the billy wagon ended up on aaron at some point, which makes me think he was a cw maybe

[skitter30]

I'd like to correct you on one point: I did not oppose Billy's lynch, I was unsure he would flip scum.

A real opposition would be when people started voting rb en masse and I went out my way to defend them. THAT is opposition. I'm pleasantly surprised that billy flipped scum so that's a plus, but I'm not scum and lynching me would ruin our momentum.

Frost would be a good lynch today I believe.

I dont like this

I have a good feeling that perhaps scum was on that wagon late for townpoints. Just an intuition.

Like who?

[skitter30]

looking just at the vote counts i think suji, xayah, and kerset's interactions look the worst

i don't particularly like nom's opposition to the wagon or her repeatedly emphasizing her lack of read on him or how she kept pushing people who were on the wagon

[skitter30]

I don't think I was opposing it, I was just genuinely surprised people wanted to vote there because the slot produced almost close to nothing compared to everything and at the time it looked like potentially a wagon scum wanted to generate. Since Billy flipped scum I was proven wrong so that's good.

I haven't voted yet and I don't want to end today fast, I'm just saying where my lynch preference is right now. I feel like the initial suspicions on Aaron were correct from certain players. Possibly joined the end of wagon for townpoints.

your interactions with the wagon and stances on billy as the wagon was building/falling apart/building read like you opposed it and didn't want it to happen

the day probably isn't ending fast (?)

i kinda dislike suji's vote there more tbh.
i feel like if it's like 5 hours ot deadline or whatever and the game is dead and it's day1 you just vote whoever needs to be voted to make a wagon happen and the fact that he needed to be prodded to vote is ???

[skitter30]

not thinking about being lynched already.

ya i feel like she's acting like it's a much more ~immediate~ threat/eventuality than it actually is at the moment, it feels kinda survivalistic to me

[skitter30]

Back there i still wasn't sure whenever suji was aware that it was a hammer(at the moment of post), so i didn't want to start trivial argues in which he could make various standpoints.

this strikes me as townie

Also let's see what happens if I VOTE: Aaron

what's your read on suji?

PM looks sketchy as well.

he's basically coasting via wolfy pop-ins and refusing to take any sort of stance

I'm willing to give Suji the benefit of the doubt that they knew it was a hammer, but it was still a sketchy hammer imo.

i mean the hammer had to happen, i'm more weirded out that he had to be prodded to hammer

[skitter30]

I don't want to waste a mislynch on me considering that we profit from revisiting other slots.

You will learn absolutely nothing about the scumteam by lynching me. You'll end up in day 3 scratching your head and stuff. I'm a bad lynch.

I still think Aaron is a good lynch by the by. His last posts feel like preparation to justify a vote on me. Keep this in mind if you actually go through lynching me today.

this is awful

[skitter30]

Hey all. My house flooded at the end of yesterday. Still sorting stuff out but I'm mostly fine. Expect me to take a backseat for a little though, my game time will be reduced to posting while wagging off work at the moment.

oh no!

i hope the situation is under control and that there isn't too much damage, hope things get easier for you soon