White Flag - TM2020

[Donempire]

Fuckers

[Donempire]

If this is mountanious like i've been told we have an easy win on our hands. In the meantime while i catch scum:
VOTE: Formerfish

[Donempire]

How does the answer to "Why White Flag?" give any useful information? The reasons would have been established prior, and there's no picking games after role assignments anyway.

Well it speaks to the type of person you are generally which is what I want to explore. It is helpful for me to know what type of people I am dealing with since I haven’t played with many of you.

I chose mountanious because as scum i think it makes the game much more luck based than the invidiual or team skill and when its town since i consistently roll VT every game i feel left out when there are power roles scrounging about, and also feels dirt cheap when i win due to a cop clear or a n1 doc save, etc.

[Donempire]

Also Dongempire, is your vote serious?

Sure, you can consider it as such. What do you make of it?

Well it speaks to the type of person you are generally which is what I want to explore. It is helpful for me to know what type of people I am dealing with since I haven’t played with many of you.

Do you think it is a bad idea to try and introduce discussion into the game?

Not a fan of this. The first part feels like the 'make up a technically flawless answer that perfectly explains why I asked a question when I absolutely wasn't thinking about that logic when I asked it' that I used to catch myself doing as scum a while back. It feels semi-over engineered/too prepared for someone asking.

Second point is oddly hostile. Not really a question since it's rhetorical and nobody is ever really going to say 'yes I wanted to stop us introducing discussion into the game.'

Hopkirk 'Hopper' Hopkirk

I understand the reasoning but disagree.

The first paragraph is a very politician like statement but i think its genuine. Besides, you dont really have to have a reason for starting discussion. The fact that he didnt brush the question aside by saying what i say and responded even if safely means that his hearts in the right place.

And yeah, the second paraghraph isnt a question. I dont think its as hostile as you make it out to be either, it simply tells him to back off since questioning someone raising activity without increasing activity yourself is counterintuitive as town. This is how i would have responded too.

But i can still understand where you are coming from as i said and think that this post is very towny.

[Donempire]

Do you think there is scum motivation for asking that question?

There's motivation to ask it as both town and scum. I'm only interested in what you've learned from the rest of our responses.
I can see scum motivation in posting a question designed to appear towny while not having any real justification for it, maintaining secrecy when asked why you did, and giving a tame explanation much later.
What's your experience playing scum? Can you describe your scum playing style? More specifically - if you roll scum, would you allow being coached by your partners?

So you feel hes more likely to be scum from those posts than town, given that you gave reasons he could be scum without pointing out the ways he could be town from that while saying his posts might be town motivated or scum motivated. It bugs me you didnt just straight up say that. It feels like you are trying to play it safe by not calling him scum but shading him regardless.
And besides that, i dont think "your meta as scum" is a good question either. Scum can lie here and town might self incriminate. And this isnt something that provokes discussion either unlike gobble. I want to read everything before saying anything concrete but yeah, dont like this post at least.

[Donempire]

Dont want to come off like im parroting gooble but cephrir sucks man. Most of his posts are quick one liners that you cant say much to and he seems afraid to engage properly, especially 81 is awful. I'm fine with placing my vote there but i want to clear my mind on former first because this doesnt play like his towngame.

[Donempire]

Um, no, I was just highlighting possible scum motivation since he asked what scum motivation could be there. You will see that I eventually take more solid stances on a variety of slots, alleging that I'm 'playing it safe' is untrue.

"your meta as scum" is a perfectly good question - scum lies can be caught easily, and the response helps give insight into the person's playing style. I'd usually expect very different approaches towards answering the question from both alignments, wouldn't you?

I dont have a problem with you responding to his question, but why did you feel the need to mention that there could be a town agenda also without providing an example for that? Thats what bugs me.
And you may take the most controversial, extreme opinions later in the game, but right now i stand by saying that you're playing it incredibly safe.

I'm interested to hear how you'd easily catch scum lying about their meta, what would you do exactly to find out they are lying? Cause if its reading their scum games for that, then the question is unnecessary as you can just whip out the games and find it out without asking. And yes, i'd agree different approaches. Town would sometimes self incriminate due to meta being mostly similar with slight variation between them, and scum would lie. If they dont then scum can also self incriminate, making it non different for both alignments, therefore not an usefull question.

[Donempire]

wgeurts is at an alarmingly high vote percentage for someone i dont remember as vividly as someone like gobble or ceph. Can someone explain the reasoning or is it all rvs votes?

[Donempire]

Dont want to come off like im parroting gooble but cephrir sucks man. Most of his posts are quick one liners that you cant say much to and he seems afraid to engage properly, especially 81 is awful. I'm fine with placing my vote there but i want to clear my mind on former first because this doesnt play like his towngame.

Sorry you don't like my posting style. How does that make me scum?

Cant attack my point on you without strawmanning? Fine by me.

If by the way your posting the person you are targeting, gobble in this case, cant respond to you properly as you simply have no case and are just nitpicking then yeah, i have a problem with your activity. Last i checked you had 29 posts, most of which were one liners, and all of them directed at gobble were one liners.

Besides that it wasnt just the posting style i had a problem with but the content of it. As i said all of it is fluff or otherwise nitpicking, so no sanctuary there either. Even if your posts were wallposts it would have no content.

[Donempire]

I dont have a problem with you responding to his question, but why did you feel the need to mention that there could be a town agenda also without providing an example for that? Thats what bugs me.
And you may take the most controversial, extreme opinions later in the game, but right now i stand by saying that you're playing it incredibly safe.

Then you've not read my post properly. I was calling out scum motivation in maintaining secrecy about the reasoning behind the question; not scum motivation for the question itself.
Even then, this is such a small point to be concerned about -- that I'm not providing an 'example' of town agenda -- I find it odd that this of all things bugs you.
Incredibly safe? I've openly attacked FormerFish, Dunnstral, Cephrir; I've hard-defended Gobbledygook in the last few pages, which stances of mine do you find 'incredibly safe'?

Your entire attack on me is grasping and empty, and not reminiscent of the time we played together last.
VOTE: Dongempire

I wasnt clear, i meant playing it safe when it came to pressuring gobble, since you didnt place any concrete read on him as of that post.

You lost me in the first paragraph. I already say that i had no problem with you calling out any scum motivation that post might have had, after all thats what gibble asked for. What i had trouble with was that you needlessly said it could come from both town or scum. That was uncalled for in that case.
It might be a small point, i cant argue about its importance. However it was an interesting point for me to dwell on and thats about how i decide on things to push. It wasnt a clear cut point so i pushed it, do you still have a problem with it?

I dont believe im grasping. I think that anyone who looks at the wording your posts had would come to the same conclusion as i have. And im not trying to push you with this either - im still conflicted on which side you're on and this was a way to clarify perhaps, and as long as you work with me on this instead of brushing it away by saying its grasping...

I'm interested to hear how you'd easily catch scum lying about their meta, what would you do exactly to find out they are lying? Cause if its reading their scum games for that, then the question is unnecessary as you can just whip out the games and find it out without asking. And yes, i'd agree different approaches. Town would sometimes self incriminate due to meta being mostly similar with slight variation between them, and scum would lie. If they dont then scum can also self incriminate, making it non different for both alignments, therefore not an usefull question.

Yes, and hence forces them to answer truthfully. Of course I'll

also

take a look at their scumgames (which I did) and if they're lying, great!

Any

question can get a town-but-incriminating or scum-but-lying response, that hardly makes the questions themselves useless. Especially since the intent of that question wasn't to weaponize it and look for holes, rather to just develop an insight into their playstyle from their own words. You're spending a lot of words here saying nothing.

Whatever. I dont believe it wouldve brought any info worth dwelling over but this is a subjective turf as far as i see it.

[Donempire]

VOTE: cephrir

[Donempire]

@Dann - i didnt bother engaging with ceph because being active is his duty as town. When people keep asking him questions and he responds with one liners and shit like "i dont have to respond" like his post before i voted him i see it as a waste of time on a person who clearly wants the discussion to stagnate, in fact the more we focus on him im certain the more this game will die down. Read his iso, its half one liners and the other half is "game sux" or "i dont have nor need any" which kills activity.

Im pretty certain on my townreads on Auro, Gobble and Hopkirk right now. I dont want to lynch in these three for today.

Also hopkirk, i heard the elements modkill and realize how that would kill your motivation to play on. However it is completely irrelevant to this game and how it proceeds, so it shouldnt detract from the way you play this, and if you're just playing to fun like you said it shouldnt effect this game at all much love

[Donempire]

stuff

I am active.

I answer questions. I just don't feel the need to engage with your or Auro's attacks on me because they're weak, I don't think there's any point in me wasting my time trying to change your minds (especially considering that Auro is scum) and I believe everyone else can see that.

There is nothing wrong with making short posts. Feel free to object to their content.

What would you propose I say instead when asked to explain a teammate's read when they didn't offer any reasons? I was heading off an expected attack about this lack of reasons when my team is primarily, though not entirely, communicating in gut read form.

Now that i read it i see i've worded it poorly. Nonetheless what i meant was (i think) very clear, and thats while you might be active you contribute nothing.
I dont care that you didnt respond to me. I didnt mean to argue with you at any point because i know that would be fruitless, and the way i know that is because you paid gobble no mind when he actually stopped to engage. You're right that you wont change my mind by arguing with me, but if you're not going to do that i'd expect you to argue with others instead of passively answering questions then crying that the game is boring.

I guess there isnt anything wrong with short posts specifically but yours are bad and short, so i attributted it to the latter. I'll focus on a few so you can see where im coming from.

You could ask them if they have any reason and post that. Doesnt matter if its gut, tarot, random.org, any reasoning is better than no reasoning, because they have to have A reasoning after all. An overly aggressive attitude like that only creates needless mystery around something that can be resolved quite easily, like you did now.

auro hopkirk gobb

Can you explain the Auro townread?

I am enjoying playing this game now that I've gotten back into it a bit more. I'm liking the pacing/posting styles in general in the game. Just semi-disappointing that I don't really have a 'team' in play during team mafia anymore but it doesn't really affect my motivation to play in this now that I got back to actually posting on the site.

I don't have any ill will against Elements or anything. I know Elements + the rest of my team in real life (that's why we had two replacements for one of the slots) and don't think there's any chance he was intentionally doing it/understood what it meant and why it was banned. I knew one guy irl who it took a while for him to realize that when I asked him 'are you mafia' saying 'no' when he was town and refusing to answer when he was mafia was such a problem/was making me beat my head against the wall.

The biggest reason for my auro townread is the way he came on pushing me. I thought it didnt feel committed and was trying to check where my loyalties laid, so i responded accordingly and he unvoted and saw that was eight. I dont think scum pulls something like that especially while we were the only ones active amd when he couldnt shade me through that. Also he has been pretty active and engaging with everyone, even people willing to townread him, so i get the sense hes trying to solve rather than clear his name and lie down if that makes sense.

Yeah i also agree that the punishment to both the game and elements was too severe for something as common as that, s warning should have sufficed but im not a mod. Even if elements did it intentionally to clear his name thats bad play rather than rulebreaking demeanor.

[Donempire]

I'm also v/la until 11th of january

I thought i could play in between exams but these are pretty rough and i dont want to burden you with low effort posting

[Donempire]

I'm on page 17 right now, i can get a post up in ~2 hours

[Donempire]

I don't care! If he doesn't use meta, that's his prerogative.

Let's try to figure where we disagree.

1. Esp said I'm scum for a reason X.
2. A cursory glance at my town games would show X in those games.
3. Dunn also says I do X as town.
4. Therefore, scumreading me for X is not valid.

I believe this is the point of disagreement.
-Dunn is fallible.
-Maybe the way you're doing it this time is subtly different (it can't possibly be exactly the same unless you post the same exact words).
-Maybe Espe thinks the entirety of mafia is situational and personality has no consistency from game to game.

Personally the major reason for my scumread on you is becoming the focus on defense, the "you CAN'T scumread me for X!" mindset that reminds me of scum caught for the wrong reason, and harping on dumb points like this when you could be doing anything else.

I agree with this.

Regarding esp on auro, i think shes wrong on a number of fronts which include not giving a proper reason to scumread in the first place, giving me the idea that shes on the auro wagon to seem like she found something and is committed but hasnt really brought up any good points besides

Questions are framed to find a way out of suspicion rather than getting a level of understanding which is a scum mindset v town mindset thing.

which is true in the post you quoted, but it isnt a reason to be certain on someone being scum. Because besides the fact it can be meta for someone, there isnt any wrong with asking someone why they are being scumread because town can be doing the wrong stuff because of inexperience or because he wants to debate ceph (and by proxy his team) on the reasons and maybe persuade him. Fact stands that this is the only way you've tried to push auro and you're clearly making this a bigger deal than it deserves.

Coming back to cephs post though and why i quoted it, Town!Auro should have gotten over this read since arguing with esp is going nowhere and taking a defensive stance this early is no good. And needless to say, i agree with the scum caught for wrong reason vibe because thats the same vibe im getting. I'm not entirely convinced though and i have my own list of people to shake down.

[Donempire]

Auros not my scumread, i think that defending himself isnt indicative of scumminess but rather misplaced focus. Espeonage is my highest scumread right now and former would have to come second though its not half as strong as esp.

[Donempire]

Dongempire backing off Cephrir seemed like he realized he went down the wrong path trying to get people to scumread Cephrir. I also feel like Hopkirk is reaching with some of his analysis (particular when it comes to me), but he is very funny so I will townread him to keep him around longer.

I want to vote NSG because she is playing into her scum meta that I saw in Alternative 9P. I find it odd that no one else is commenting on that. It seemed like it was common knowledge across the site since other payers in that game also made that observation.

VOTE: Dongempire

I'm going to only say this once because everyone seems to be getting the wrong idea. I'm not scumreading cephrir. I made 322 and the former vote on him was because i viewed his playstyle as pretty shitty and the way he engaged with gobble and auro the same. At that time i didnt know what to make of his posts but i didnt like them, but the reason for my push on him was that his playstyle was both lazy and didnt allow for more discussion. If you're going to push on me please dont all use the same shitty excuse, especially when its wrong.

[Donempire]

Yup, im caught up, its just the way people have been generally responding (wallposts and multiquotes) have done a number on me and its hard to follow or respond to some stuff. I'll try explaining my read on you but i dont want to lynch you yet, or at least over espionage

[Donempire]

I'm surprised this is a set-up you didn't want, I took you for a competitive player who would like the challenge.

Subtlety. If you're going to buddy him, try not being this on the nose.

I dont like this post at all.

[Donempire]

I havent been able to put the proper focus but if anyones willing to talk in real time i can be up for it. I admit i havent been bothering to respond or make reads because reading walls is way too tiring while also trying to take a look at other team mafia games especially.

[Donempire]

UNVOTE:

I'm not sure im ready to go full on esp yet. I need to read up some more, so i could settle with NSG for now.
My townbloc is still auro and hopkirk, but i would like to see more from gobble. Auros latest posts i still like but i havent read all of hopkirks responses. Either way i'm not going to worry too much about this bundling.

I would really like to push on some of esps weak points but im waiting for a clearing so i can make a full on case on him, i can probably do it in wednesday, so no rush right now. As of now im fine with a NSG lynch but not too thrilled about any other wagons.

[Donempire]

Where's Ceph at for you, Dong?

I like his activity more than i did when it started. When hes not interacting with gobble or auro the tone in his posts seem natural, so i think the attitude towards those two was because of a personality clash rather than a red pm. I still dont agree on his auro scumread and would like it if he expanded on his readslist, specifically on the why rather than try to give everyone a read to just fill the page.
I dont think ceph flips scum, at least as far as i see.

[Donempire]

UNVOTE:

I'm not sure im ready to go full on esp yet. I need to read up some more, so i could settle with NSG for now.
My townbloc is still auro and hopkirk, but i would like to see more from gobble. Auros latest posts i still like but i havent read all of hopkirks responses. Either way i'm not going to worry too much about this bundling.

I would really like to push on some of esps weak points but im waiting for a clearing so i can make a full on case on him, i can probably do it in wednesday, so no rush right now. As of now im fine with a NSG lynch but not too thrilled about any other wagons.

this posts blows

so much fence sitty shit

Ok

[Donempire]

Theres a lot of people scumreading me for valid reasons, you're not one of them so stop shading me

[Donempire]

Sorry about this but i will get to playing come tomorrow morning. I've read up and have a few thoughts i'd like to share.

[Donempire]

I realize my activity has been shit this game, and i believe thats because i valued the quality of my posts. If you dont mind wading through the shit, this'll be much easier for me.

Over the last couple of pages my reads havent fully changed except kitty is now a confident tr as far as i see it - i havent been able to catch her in a contradiction or a hidden agenda yet.

I'll be focusing on some of formers posts.

[Donempire]

Yeah formers scum.

I have never believed his posts were anything outstanding, but thats not the smoking gun for me. The last 3 posts he made seem like its coming from frustrated scum that got caught due to luck, and his desperation to switch to a NSG wagon shows that also.

[Donempire]

Gobble wagon seems rushed. I think people caved in too early to formers offensive.

I especially didnt like that nsg was MIA and yet former still said she was making it a 1v1, shes not even here

I will also say that i dont like how cheeky attacked dunn out of thin air - it seems like it was meant as a way to lull the nonattentive to thinking dunn was doing something malicious against her when he wasnt. As far as i see its not like she scumreads him either so wtf?

[Donempire]

Im not posturing. You think we're done? I wanted to use the some time left over to make up for my activity.

[Donempire]

Why didn't Dong vote Former there

Not a logical reason yes but i didnt check the vc or the deadline, i just wanted to get in whatevee i had in mind and go to bed

Not defending myself but i dont want anyone to get the wrong ideas either.

[Donempire]

Sorry FF if you're town, but I'd rather take NSG later into the game than you as it stands.

I'd hang him just for this comment.

Thanks for letting me know that a fucking empty space is better than having me around Dann.

With all due respect, i think its more than that.

What you're doing at this point is pretty much whataboutism and is bordering on desperation to get ANYONE lynched except yourself. No one said we cant lynch you today and nsg tomorrowz which is my preferred gamestate as of now.
You havent given reasons for yourself or against nsg, so all of your posts help no one. Thats the bigger reason.

[Donempire]

Thanks cap.
VOTE: Formerfish

[Donempire]

Nsg/cheeky/maybe hop

[Donempire]

Thats where my mind is at. I dont think i will be considering anyone else to lynch tomorrow but i do want to make a case on esp come tomorrow.

[Donempire]

Im starting to turn on ceph and i tr kitty. I didnt like hops recent posting however.

[Donempire]

Thanks cap.
VOTE: Formerfish

Nsg/cheeky/maybe hop

I could vote here for sure. Votes me but doesn't have me as scum...

Lol? I already said that was my suspect list for tomorrow. Today its just you, and i think your fates been sealed

[Donempire]

fuck your attempt to deflect onto me

Hes not detlecting you idiot, dunns been active. Do you know what deflecting means?

[Donempire]

I like these wagons what course should I be taking?

Former seems like its a done deal at this pointz i doubt trying to flip everyone on nsg at the last moment will work, and im pretty sure on former (im also convinced on nsg but in a decision of one or the other...)

[Donempire]

What's wrong with Dong?

I dont like the angle of his dangle.

[Donempire]

I like these wagons what course should I be taking?

Former seems like its a done deal at this pointz i doubt trying to flip everyone on nsg at the last moment will work, and im pretty sure on former (im also convinced on nsg but in a decision of one or the other...)

This is a pretty lazy excuse, your vote on nsg would put her to l-1, while your vote on FF ties the wagons at l-2, so "flipping everyone" isn't something that needs to happen if you wanted to

I'll be willing to flip on nsg if formers wagon stops traction, but its not because i scumread nsg over him but rather to just get a lynch in. I'm still in full support of a former hanging.

[Donempire]

I do

[Donempire]

Sure, tomorrow we can have a better discussion.

VOTE: BB
L1 i think

[Donempire]

I still dont like cheeky but im not the nk, i can expand on that tomorrow.

[Donempire]

Why is every top wagon just kicking and screaming and then we go on to another wagon

[Donempire]

And I hope that you all take all this and be like “oh wow that BBmolla was so mean I’m gonna win this for the town just to show him”

Because you played fucking bad today

You were a bad town and need to be better if we’re gonna get points

And if you can accomplish that I get points for it

I win no matter what

If you lose I was right you’re bad, if you win I win points

are you 9?

[Donempire]

No ones townreading me afaik

[Donempire]

NSGs not here to flood an entire page with insults, guess thats who were lynching today then

[Donempire]

Thats the worst compromise for me but sure..

VOTE: NSG

[Donempire]

That flash BBmolla wagon has to be scumdriven change my mind

I agree. I believe that cheeky especially should be looked into tomorrow.

[Donempire]

Dong needs to be killed with fire if NSG flips town.

Because?

[Donempire]

Whatever nsg flips doesnt mean anything. Scum can say "durr if hes town/scum then so and so is scum!!" since they know the flip beforehand. What all of you need to do now is shut up about it, we'll know her role in a few hours.

[Donempire]

Buongiorno

[Donempire]

Hopkirks play seems like it took a lazy approach. Ibdont think hes scum, i think he just didnt care about the gane at some point.

I can see an espe/cheeky pairing, but it seems too easy.

[Donempire]

DAE dong bad?

I say hes bad so you should believe me

[Donempire]

I would vote myself for you pussies but i got a wagon to catch

VOTE: Cheeky

[Donempire]

To expand slightly

Because we already discussed scum turbobus strats for white flag in this game I really dont think scum would look to turbobus in this game, at least until maybe late game when theres only 2 of them

1 scum wins the game

[Donempire]

Former was suspicious for me because he was trying to deflect into nsg. That was my big reason for not wanting to flip onto nsg and you seemed to agree with this until it wasnt cool

Esp and cheeky i can explain when i wake up because its longer but i sispect them more than ff

[Donempire]

Btw 1203 isnt defending nsg

[Donempire]

To expand slightly

Because we already discussed scum turbobus strats for white flag in this game I really dont think scum would look to turbobus in this game, at least until maybe late game when theres only 2 of them

1 scum wins the game

What? It literally doesn't

VOTE: Cephrir

You either didnt read your role pm or you're scum. This is such a stupid post to make

[Donempire]

Former was suspicious for me because he was trying to deflect into nsg. That was my big reason for not wanting to flip onto nsg and you seemed to agree with this until it wasnt cool

Esp and cheeky i can explain when i wake up because its longer but i sispect them more than ff

Formerfish I suspected for a lot of reasons. To clarify, you are still scum reading FF?

Plenty of fish besides him, so no

[Donempire]

im shading scum so that makes me scum

wtf

[Donempire]

I will be around today if yall decide to flashwagin

I liked bb at the start but yeah I do think a little fire that fades out quickly has a good chance of being scum

fine

VOTE: bb

I still think nsg is the best lynch but it's fine I guess

northsidegal - 5

(Kittymo, Dunnstral, gobbledygook, BBMolla, Dannflor)

BBmolla - 4

(CheekyTeeky, Cephrir, Formerfish, Dongempire)

Formerfish - 2

(northsidegal, Espeonage)

gobbledygook - 1

(Hopkirk)

Not Voting - 1

(Auro)

I think that's accurate.

We have ~8 hours left.

VOTE: nsg

These tell a pretty clear story

I didn't think I could get her, then switched back when it was pointed put she had more votes than I realized

And this makes you town... how?

If you were planning to bus NSG so that you could point this out later then this makes perfect sense as scumceph. What reason is there to point this out

[Donempire]

Also it literally says you win when scum has been reduced to one member, yet no one is batting an eye to this post:

To expand slightly

Because we already discussed scum turbobus strats for white flag in this game I really dont think scum would look to turbobus in this game, at least until maybe late game when theres only 2 of them

1 scum wins the game

What? It literally doesn't

So, good job on that front team.

[Donempire]

im shading scum so that makes me scum

wtf

Shading them but voting someone else

Lynching FF becomes a lot harder if Nsg is lynched first, I'm sure you planned to bus day 2 because Nsg wouldn't be able to show she was town, and because she would have let the maf team know that

NSG was talking about surviving to day 2 and starting to play then. If she hadnt kept up on that promise she would have been lynched, regardless of whether or not i "bussed" her.

Shading her would have been scum indicative if she flipped town. Makes no sense for me to do as scum, especially in a game where its very easy to lose as scum due to scum having higher numbers but losing at 1 pop

If i wanted to lynch ff now i would have been pushing him, i dont care how difficult a game gets clearly, im playing on a razors edge with everyone scumreading me. Thanks for that but im not that forward thinking.

[Donempire]

Please just say what you think about my posts, half of everyones posts is either "dong is bad but uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh" or "dong is bad" without any further explanation. List your problems or fuck off so we can move onto a cheeky wagon

Friendly reminder that this is a post cheeky made

If this is mountanious like i've been told we have an easy win on our hands. In the meantime while i catch scum:
VOTE: Formerfish

Auros not my scumread, i think that defending himself isnt indicative of scumminess but rather misplaced focus. Espeonage is my highest scumread right now and former would have to come second though its not half as strong as esp.

Dong distancing from FF?

[Donempire]

Dong what happened to your hard Esp scum read

Lost it

[Donempire]

Okay, i should expand on that a bit.

I reread espeonage and i dont think shes as scummy as cheeky. Most importantly her tone is consistent and i agree with her assesment on not scumreading nsg. I like that she carried that read to this day.

Still her backing off of formerfish once d2 started doesnt bode well but i dont sr her as profusely.

[Donempire]

NSG was talking about surviving to day 2 and starting to play then. If she hadnt kept up on that promise she would have been lynched, regardless of whether or not i "bussed" her.

Yes, that's kind of my point:

Shading her would have been scum indicative if she flipped town. Makes no sense for me to do as scum, especially in a game where its very easy to lose as scum due to scum having higher numbers but losing at 1 pop

It makes sense if she's dying day 2 anyway

Shes not dying d2 if she starts playing that day

If i was scum with her my priority would have been carrying her to d2, not bus her at the smallest opportunity

[Donempire]

VOTE: Espeonage

Bruuuuuuuuuuuuh

[Donempire]

Pathetic lamist lmfao

VOTE: Cheeky

Stop this esp wagon pls

[Donempire]

Auros not my scumread, i think that defending himself isnt indicative of scumminess but rather misplaced focus.

Espeonage is my highest scumread right now and former would have to come second though its not half as strong as esp.

You never explained why exactly Espeonage was your highest scum read to start with. Why was that? And how does agreeing with his logic cancel that out?

I started scumreading her because of posts like these where she,

So I've found two scum which is enough to win the game. Auro and Dunn are both scum kthxbi

Shades people without giving any reasoning,

Questions are framed to find a way out of suspicion rather than getting a level of understanding which is a scum mindset v town mindset thing.

A wishy washy lawyer quote that doesnt mean anything, because even after she explained this in more detail the point is auro hasnt been under suspicion on most people he talked with besides ceph, and esp herself even pointed out the times auro made a good post in her eyes, which is weird

All of the mentality stuff I am reading in Auro's posts reads to me as working out how to be town read not how to convince others of their own reads to work with others

So after more than one person asked you to look at my town games where my posts come off exactly like this, and my calling your allegation of "not working with anyone" blatantly false... You justify your vote on me because wagon composition?

Okay.

I have not looked at a single one of your games and I never will. If you run your mouth with self meta you gonna end up being another mod kill to add to the pile.

Attacks auro and basically threatens him to shut up about his inquiry into her metagame.

I still think these are bad posts, but with 100 more of these posts i think this is just her playstyle at least in this game and more importantly i dont want anything to distract from me riling up on cheeky.

[Donempire]

Okay, i should expand on that a bit.

I reread espeonage and i dont think shes as scummy as cheeky. Most importantly her tone is consistent and i agree with her assesment on not scumreading nsg. I like that she carried that read to this day.

Still her backing off of formerfish once d2 started doesnt bode well but i dont sr her as profusely.

TBH I think Cheeky is playing like scum this game but my team is telling me she's obvtown, and now Dann's teammate thinks she's pretty town

Man can you vote your scumread or are you going to sit on that fence until it ruptures your asshole

[Donempire]

Dann can you read too?

[Donempire]

NSG was talking about surviving to day 2 and starting to play then. If she hadnt kept up on that promise she would have been lynched, regardless of whether or not i "bussed" her.

Yes, that's kind of my point:

Shading her would have been scum indicative if she flipped town. Makes no sense for me to do as scum, especially in a game where its very easy to lose as scum due to scum having higher numbers but losing at 1 pop

It makes sense if she's dying day 2 anyway

Shes not dying d2 if she starts playing that day

If i was scum with her my priority would have been carrying her to d2, not bus her at the smallest opportunity

You're not understanding me:

I don't think she can show she is town day 2, so she is getting lynched, Is essence she's given up, but her team can make the most of a bad situation by mislynching FF first. I also don't think you bussed her, I think you would have voted her day 2 like you said, but I don't think that's towny, I think that's trying to blend in

No i understand you. All im saying is that that isnt what i would have done had i been scum with nsg, i would have been either saving her d1 no matter the cost if she was able to play properly d2 or bus her immediately in d1 while shading other people to set up future mislynches. A random vote close to deadline doesnt make sense in my opinion.

[Donempire]

Dong has been trying to lynch me from when I entered unfortunately they picked the wrong LHF.

Lol

Lynch me?

[Donempire]

I still think these are bad posts, but with 100 more of these posts i think this is just her playstyle at least in this game and more importantly i dont want anything to distract from me riling up on cheeky.

they're bad posts but you specifically don't want a wagon on Esp?

What exactly makes Cheeky scum here? Why was him pointing out a more logical move for him to make as scum "pathetic LAMIST trash." This push feels so over the top and I can't really understand what your thought process or trajectory is here.

Can you read the last 2 lines of the part you quoted from me, out loud

I havent cased cheeky yet

[Donempire]

Dong has been trying to lynch me from when I entered unfortunately they picked the wrong LHF.

Lol

Lynch me?

Nah I like the attention from you. When I'm not being scumread is more of a worry.

Did you know that scum take less kindly to being universally townread than town do? Thats because they are afraid of being scumread for valid reasons at some point and not being able to control the narrative once the dominos start falling apart.

[Donempire]

A random vote close to deadline doesnt make sense in my opinion.

It wasn't a random vote, it was the hammer. I had specifically asked someone to hammer the post before. Someone was going to do it. NSG was a goner. Why not hammer for the cred? This defense doesn't make sense.

Quoting the last sentence of my post and disregarding everything else doesnt make sense either.

This is getting tiresome. Do you have anything in mind?

[Donempire]

IM A FEMALE THAT HAS CREATED HUMANS. So like, -she- works fine.

Is this where we're at now

Bruh indeed

[Donempire]

I mean, i gave up trying to convince you. I still havent given up on winning so maybe i'll steer it towards cheeky and wrap this game up.

[Donempire]

Still 11 days, i dont like that l1 vote

[Donempire]

I have read up, i will post a reply once im sure i can make a good one

[Donempire]

Neither hopkirk nor gobble are scum.

For that we'll have to go back, back in time...
Remember when nsg got wagoned to lynch a lurker, any lurker? That was when the scum panic mode started. From that point on they would have to control the discussion together or only one of them would not be enough as just one lynch spells doom.

This in my eyes clears 5 people: Hopkirk, Former, Ceph, Kitty and BB.
BB and Former are obvious. If this was a lynch all scum game there might have been some wifom involved, but theres no point in opening up scum counterwagons in a white flag.
Cephrir hasnt been nearly active enough to take control of the discussion, a lurking strategy with your other scummate leading the charge theoretically should work but im not convinced based on his posts.
Kitty is, well, town. Besides that she was consistently posting in lower numbers with arguably more content than any single player which isnt good for controlling the pace of the game.
Hopkirk hasnt had a damn to give the game after d1s lynch, this could mean he tried to change the playstyle to suit the 2 scum playstyle but i think its probably a case for him being town, seeing as scum would want to be more front and center after that to lead lurker mislynches, while hopkirk just became a lurkee himself.

That leaves four people to be scum: Auro, myself, dann and cheeky.

I got a train to catch. Rest coming afterwards

[Donempire]

Replace kitty with blank and add gobble to the bottom pile for post 2300

[Donempire]

At Dong's post... Wow.

Why?

[Donempire]

Yes

[Donempire]

Like worst case scenario is that Hop, Dong and you are all town and we've ignored BB/gobbles/FF/Cephrir.

I'm actively proposing a BB+Gobbles team.
No one really thinks he's town.
Yet, no one wants to lynch him.
Esp was towny EoD2. But no one cared.
Gob has been continuously scummy. He appears when it's convenient, makes wild, obviously made up statements. Has someone defend him very hard when wagoned. Starts D3 with a Dong vote saying "Please just listen to me" and pisses off, no one cares.

Yes, you guys are ignoring BB+Gobbles+FF. FF/Gobbles and BB/Gobbles are both valid solves.

I'm pushing Gobbles for this, and you then somehow lose your townread on me, declare Gobbles town for it, then also acknowledge you're ignoring Gobbles. What even?

You're voting formerfish

I get you on the BB Gobbles team. BB and Former are town here, ₺here are legitimately no situation where they turn out to be scum. Gobbles i can sheep you on.

VOTE: gobble

[Donempire]

I think its gobble/cheeky at this point tbh. I'm sorry i havent been able to case cheeky but at this point i dont think i'll be able to. I've been underperforming this game and i apologize for that, but i dont think making a giant wall post at this stage solves anything. I will try engaging with cheeky so you can see where im coming from at least.

[Donempire]

Dong can you give me a read on gobble and how that's evolved for you through the game?

Gobble at the start of the game i liked due to his activity and his engagement with cephrir which despite starting off on the wrong foot he seemed to treat as a conversation rather than trying to attack ceph on his weak points, though i think some posts seemed odd now that i read it, like he seems to ignore hopkirk completely for some reason.

After NSG is lynched he seems to have panicked a lot. The content his posts contained dropped and he has been continually shading me since as long as i have lived. Also i dont think he ever pushed a lynch, either wagoned someone or made a futile attempt at a push. I think the fact that i cant say anything about him when i can confidently speak about players like BB or Ceph speaks to the quality of his posts, because i dont believe either bb or ceph had more posts than him but they did have much more quality posts, and thats my main reason so far. hmm...

[Donempire]

Thats l1
Im throwing. I just realized cheeky/gobble team is impossible. I messed up somewhere

@Cheeky its the same reason as the one i told in 2300, scum when theres only 2 remaining will want to take control of the discussion instead of lurking like they would want to in a for example single scum scenario. In this case they have better numbers and can control the discussion more effectively as well as no prs, but are easier to die because they lose when even one of them is hit.
This along with you increasing in activity at the start of d2 along with an attempted flashlynch on bb when it looked like former/nsg was nearing the noose made me suspicious. Its hard to do this without giving posts but suffice to say i dont like them either, though i wont push on it without giving examples.

[Donempire]

Oh okay, thought it was l1. I also deleted the unvote then forgot to retype it

UNVOTE:

Gobble/cheeky doesnt make sense. Gobbles posts are awful but i must be wrong somewhere

[Donempire]

This whole paranoia thing is a distraction. We should figure out and come to consensus on Dong/Gob/FF/Hopkirk.

No we shouldnt. 3 out of the 4 there are confirmed to be town and im not sold on gobble. He is likely also town. Sell me on it

[Donempire]

Hopkirk is. I guess i was a bit blunt with that statement, i townread former because i do not think scum benefits from counterwagoning other scum when they dont have to all die to lose, especially as nsg was saying shed be more active tomorrow and i dont see why scum would want to just throw that away.

[Donempire]

Whats the cake thing

[Donempire]

Dong, how about you sell me on:
1. Why you're town - is your play here different from your scumgames?
2. Who's scum in your proposed lynch pool?

1 - no
2 - I want to say cheeky/dann. I dont think gobs scum there and i dont suspect you as much as i do them.

[Donempire]

Is it?

[Donempire]

Ceph isnt scum...

The possible scumlist is down to Auro/Gob/Dann/Dong. I dont think dong is scum.

VOTE: Auro

This climate is perfect for scum to thrive. Theres chaos and no clear town leader and it seems like the FOS of everyone changes at a moments pace. Hopkirk/Former/BB/Ceph scum and you would expect them to come back to the thread to take control. You dont need to sell me on any one of them - they arent scum, pure and simple. we need to whittle the suspect list down from here.
We won. If you want, lynch me, we have mislynched. I'd rather have a clean victory but if you have doubts in your mind or think im not certain of it, you can take me.

[Donempire]

At Dong's post... Wow.

Why?

[Donempire]

Dong's "solve" is extremely wonky. His scumpool is effectively Auro/Gobbles/Dann.
I'm trying to get Gob lynched, and Dann's willing to flip that too, so the only pair remaining is Dann+Auro.

And that solve doesn't match with his gamestate read (scum want to control the game or whatever).

It does? You and dann have been incredibly active. It seems like you are trying to refute something you havent bothered to understand.

[Donempire]

Dong, what makes Auro scummier than your other suspects?

Also, why have you cleared Cheeky suddenly?

I already said my scumpool is you, auro and gobble. I reread gobble and his behaviour, while suspicious doesnt seem to have an agenda. Hes too unfocused and unplanned and he seems to be universally scumread, which isnt something his scum partner if there was one would have allowed, seeing as he doesnt seem too capable of defending himself.

Okay, i wont kid you, cheeky isnt fully cleared, at least if we are going based on my theory. But i dont want to lynch her, and my reasoning is this post by auro:

Dann, your team should discuss and come to a conclusion. Seems like Eddie wants Dong dead, Ank Hopkirk, and tw Cheeky.

Guess i cant explain this better without revealing my full intention - alas, you can consider my scumpool to contain cheeky in it. I just townread her the most out of the grouping.
The other 4 i nentioned cant be scum.

[Donempire]

You and dann have been incredibly active.

Exactly, and why would we bother to be "incredibly active" when the rest of town collectively agrees on lynching some variation of Gobble/Hopkirk/FF/Dong etc with occasional bouts of paranoia on us?

So that those occasional bouts of paranoia doesnt spiral out of your control. Danns been active this whole game - if he deserted now because towns heading in a mislynch who is to say he wont be locked into the mobs eyes tomorrow because he suspiciously went away yesterday? You havent been a notable presence - if you arent active in the last couple days you can easily go to the wolves.
Is there any problem with this thinking?

[Donempire]

Dong why'd you leave Hopkirk out of the target list?

He's always been out

Its back to theory again, i liked his day 1 posts but the read became weaker as i stopped seeing his name. I have to guess its due to him being disinterested after his teammate was banned. Hope im not overstepping my boundaries with this but i dont think hop!scum leaves his scum partner to die by going afk when they are one man and one game down.

I dont think his posts are that notable, but i guess they dont have to be.

[Donempire]

Ceph isnt scum...

I know. It was a joke.

Im dense

[Donempire]

Yay you guys didn't lynch me. I will have more time to do this after tomorrow.

Push BB then.
You're saying that BB is your projected candidate for gobble yet he usnt in your lynchpool. If you suspect gobble, you should also suspect BB yes? Otherwise whats the point in bringing up his posts to show equity


You keep throwing that lynchpool around unchanged. Far as i know you havent made a case for any of them. It makes me sure that all the names in that is confirmed to be town and its your projected mislynchpool for the next days.
Note how i said notable presence. Your posting from day 1 and 2 are nothing to write home about, its barely any better content than hopkirk and you say as much as he does in about 3 times the posts. Your posting today is a lot more careful and planned, now that high activity posters like FF and Dunn are silent and your posts are in the limelight. I understand you dont see yourself as a possible lynch from your own POV, but that shitty lynchpool of yours is not something everyone considers, and you're still hanging by a thread.
Also, please quote me fully next time. I said "so the bouts of paranoia doesnt spiral out of control" and your posting today has been all about that. If you're mildly scumread it only takes a simple push from cephrir, me, ff, hop, cheeky and you'll be gone in a whim. You arent townread by anyone here. You're in that lynchpool you keep throwing around, but you dont want to admit it, so here we are.

You arent universally townread. You know it, so why are you pretending like this isnt the case, and like you can post anything and get away with it?

[Donempire]

My post was directed at how he said there were two problems with my line of thinking, in case this gets isod.

[Donempire]

Mind bringing them up? Your cases for BB/Gob i mean.
Also, quite conveniently ignoring half of my post. Guess you dont really disagree with that then.
Also, you're still not townread, but i like my scum cocky so im not going to dwell on it. Makes the inevitable lynch and win more satisfying.

[Donempire]

I dont, but i might come around to Auro/Cheeky if you were mod confirmed.

Read aside no, i think your gameplay has been commendable. Your activity has been great. Nonetheless i like to believe my theory is correct.

[Donempire]

To clarify, i dont think the interactions you and auro had were organic. Early game there were so little to speak of its not worth mentioning and right now it feels like you're asking questions you know the answers to. Cheeky/auro interactions in contrast has been more unpredictable in where it will lead up, although i cant recall too many that occured, only a few.

[Donempire]

Dong and Auro are town.

Bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh

@Dann regarding hop and former
I discussed it with my team as well and they are on board with it. Thing is i dont think i can fully discuss hopkirk without breaking some kind of rule but i'll try

My read on former isnt just that. I dont think i can say it any different so apologies if it sounds samey but basically: scum dont benefit from creating a scum counterwagon to look like they've been cleared.
For this instance, lets say scum!FF counterwagoned nsg to make it seem like he was cleared. If we had to lynch all scum in the game, i'd be all for looking into FF further. With this scum!FF guarenteed a scum lynch for that day AND their partner can still fall under scrutiny and be lynched since he hasnt been cleared like ff effectively has been. So scum has no clear benefit to open up a counterwagon on another scum who hasnt been much of a consideration up until that point.

Hopkirk is different. To paraphrase what i said to my team:
Hopkirk might just be disinterested after his teammate got banned. As scum i dont think he leaves his partner to die but as town him going afk isnt too big of a deal.
I know irl issues are a part of it too but i believe this also had an adverse effect. Please dont ban me idk if this constitutes OGI

[Donempire]

I can't bus them it's white flag!

FF would also know this.

[Donempire]

VOTE: Auro

Townbloc of Former BB and Cheeky. I'll make a case, pinky promise.

[Donempire]

Im fortunate then.

[Donempire]

Dann

[Donempire]

I'm flash lynching the next person to wifom.

Formerfish is unable to play the game for different reasons.
BB is deathtunneling me.
You are not voting auro or dann and seemed to flip on me near the end of D1.
Dann and Auro are scumbuddies.
Gobbles is lynchbait and wont listen to me.
I wasnt killed because i was the only one who consistently voiced suspicion on dann and auro. If i was killed, it would be the awkwardest shit ever, even more so than cephrir, and would definitely incriminate dann and auro. Their only bet right now is i dont make enough noise to get them killed, and my only losecon right now is gobbles gets lynched so they snowball it into an either me mislynch or a former mislynch.

[Donempire]

Keeping me alive seemed to keep Gobbles alive so far, yeah?

No, Gob's dying.

Dann, you'll vote Gob with me tomorrow then?

Hey Auro, can you reask the dozen questions I've asked people on the last few pages about their bad trajectories on me tomorrow instead of letting people ignore them thanks.

Cheeky I might take out of that pool on more reading. Fish I could easily see replacing them.

Will be on it, boss. I'm 90% going for Gob tomorrow, but I'll make sure I do this.

Nope, Gob dies because he's scum.

FF I'm coming for you.

No Cheeky. You go Gob with me.

You guys are letting Gob happily lurk out. He's made multiple promises to play the game, yet ignores this game completely while playing others...

Gob still scum! Apologies for making the Hopkirk lynch harder if this wins the game

I'd say gob would fare just as well without you alive.

[Donempire]

I wasnt killed because i was the only one who consistently voiced suspicion on dann and auro.

No, it's because you're scummy af. Cephrir was pretty obviously town and a universal townread.

Auro, how are you reading Dong

@Dann: Loony town.

No, Dong is town.
Agree, Hop's recent posting has been pretty bad - but please let's have Gobble after we lynch Hop.

Let me know when i have to say anything myself, right now im doing just fine with your own words.

[Donempire]

Dong are we reading the same game? IIRC I was pushing Auro/Dann theories while you were proposing a cheeky/gobbles team. You seemed all over the place D2, I mean it's towny but moonlogic to think you're alive over Cephrir in spite of your indecision.

I think it's pretty obvious Cephrir was the night kill if Dann/Auro are scum because otherwise they would have been killed instead, especially after Danns long winded lamist posts about being a busily incorrect towny...yet here we all are :evilgrin:

Yeah, and you havent been reading the game since 2582. I have went on to push auro for the entire day but i guess some... other people have been making more noise than i have been.

I have been flipping on some of my older reads but i was certain on one thing during the later stages of the game: The fact that scum will want to control the narrative so afk players cant be scum, and auro + dann seemed to fit that to a tee. I dont remember being influenced by your read on them, but if i were, so what?

I'm not saying i would have made for a better nk than cephrir, i certainly didnt expect it and i said so in the post you are responding to.

I wasnt killed because i was the only one who consistently voiced suspicion on dann and auro. If i was killed, it would be the awkwardest shit ever, even more so than cephrir, and would definitely incriminate dann and auro.

So what did you understand from this post exactly?

[Donempire]

I thought so. You havent presented a case to suggest otherwise

I'm not talking about in general, im talking this game specifically. Tell me why former or bb here are even plausibly scum.

[Donempire]

It is quite clearly that you are trying to discredit me but you cant afford to take my words at face value so you have to strawman them.

Can you fully quote what i said back in 2709? I think it was something like uhhhh...

I wasnt killed because i was the only one who consistently voiced suspicion on dann and auro.

If i was killed, it would be the awkwardest shit ever, even more so than cephrir, and would definitely incriminate dann and auro.

Anyways, i dont know what you even tried to say with 2800. I wasnt killed, and i am not suggesting that i was.

[Donempire]

I do agree i misspoke in 2799 though. If i had to revise it to more accurately portray what i was thinking at the time it would be something like:

I wasnt killed despite making a fuss about dann and auro because im just simply not a good nk. Even if its an assurance that i will push them both tomorrow what they hope is i will not push hard enough or good enough because killing me to shut up their one loose thread would put an even bigger target on them, and after gobble auros lynch would follow suit.
Speaking of that... why wasnt dann killed?

[Donempire]

The fuck are you going on about lol?
I said killing me would put a target on you, not incriminate you. You are already scum, you just dont want to be put under the glass after a suspicious nk.

Again, strawmans

[Donempire]

Found this gem while searching auros iso:

Cephrir who are your next 3 lynches?

Hop and Dong are two; I'm curious about the third.

I know this is adressed to cephrir and seems weird, but auro is answering THIS question, go check if you think im misrepping.
Damn, hes pretty confident on hopkirk being scum. Unless...

And what makes Hop scum exactly?

Thats 6 posts before he made that post. I guess he doesnt suspect hop as much as i...

This whole paranoia thing is a distraction. We should figure out and come to consensus on Dong/Gob/FF/Hopkirk.

Why is he still putting gob into the lynchpool if he doesnt suspect him? Thats just...

Spoiler:

I’m fairly discouraged at this point following the recent modkill and consequent tiebreaker implications. Been off work today and this is the fourth time I’ve opened up the site intending to get into the game then getting demotivated and just closing it.

I don’t think any of my team particularly joined with the expectation of winning, mostly to try and enjoy the games. They’ve been in general a lot less fun than I expected (tonewise trying to read has been a slog) and I’m struggling to find the motivation to help my team. I’m glad I got the game I did since people here actually seem enjoyable to play with. I’m basically treating this as a normal game rather than team mafia, albeit one where Hectic can occasionally weigh in, and where the mods read everything in our PTs so I can force the mods to read my erotica if I put game related content interspace throughout it.

The modkill itself results in a tiebreaker in the large theme which is pretty central to why I’m discouraged- we can’t mechanically win unless conditions so unlikely they’re virtually impossible have already been met. It’d be a lot easier if any of us had managed to roll mafia (which would be pretty good normally for team mafia bsed on last time) since then we could still win if we all won our games. Annoyingly, the tiebreaker means that even if all three of us were able to immediate call out and lynch the entire scumteams in our respective games it’s not possible for us to win the event unless very specific and unlikely events (all of which are completely out of our control, and most of which have already been determined):

1.) The game we are not in MUST be won by scum as the number of other teams (17) less expected scum numbers across all games is not sufficient to mean that we are the only team who won all of our games (unless there’s more scum than you’d anticipate based on regular setup design and/or there’s exactly one scum per each team).
2.) Every member of said winning scumteam MUST also have another member of their team who rolled scum and lost (though the loss is assumed knowledge as if we win any scum in game’s we’re in would lose).
3.) The game elements was modkilled in MUST also be won by town.

We need specific results in 2 games we have no way to influence, and we need the distribution of scum/town in each team to be very specific and have specific overlap. Nothing we could have done to stop the modkill either, but that’s gone now. Better hope nobody in your team manages to get modkilled. We’re hoping for pretty much all of the large to get modkilled obviously, since enough modkills means we can technically not lose the tiebreak, and running the numbers that’s actually a lot more likely than any other way we’ve got of inning at this point.

Spent enough time talking about this with my team that I’m reasonably confident I didn’t miss anything, but if anyone notices a way we can possibly still have any chance of winning even with the tiebreaker in place then please let me know.
Kind of kills a lot of the enthusiasm I had for the team element of team mafia.

Still, going to try and catch up on this absolutely normal and not at all special or once a year event. Expecting to be interrupted by an important call from work at some point though.

Hopkirk 'Hop' Hopkirk

^A post I doubt Hop makes as scum; the emotions here feel genuine. If he was scum, that'd give him a winning chance for TM (apparently) and I don't think he'd go through the effort to post this - why would it help?

Oh the Auro wagon has half shifted so keeping it up is less pressure than I thought. Sure.

VOTE: Northside
Votes NSG. Shifts it later, but read on.

Hop 'Hopimilius' Hopkirk

I didn't read up. I can't now either and no idea when I'll be able to next week due to work.

I've seen the lynch. I've lost all respect for NSG as a player. I've lost the respect that I had for RC as a player. I've discussed it with the team- people who've discussed irl how they like RC - and everyone seems to share this view.

I'm especially irritated as this clearly was only allowed due to reputation. A new player in that slot with an 7 day period without content would have been subbed out. When it's clearly strategic since she was playing elsewhere in TM I'm pissed that it was actually allowed and would have been disgusted if she was pulling that as my teammate.

Quoting my post end gimmick because fuck this game.

I'm mostly disgusted with RC/North and irritated with the mod for enabling it despite prod rules. The lynch I absolutely agreed with as I fairly clearly said. I don't remember if I used the words I want to policy lynch this.

So scum! Hopkirk casually votes NSG mid D1, is worried about not having a winning chance for TM but still is okay; and then when his partner flips he decides to fabricate *this*? I imagine if he was actually teammates with her he'd try to get NSG replaced. These posts look like a genuine town reaction.

Alright, guess hes fine with lynching hop, BUT hes town.
You know whos fine with lynching town?

[Donempire]

Okay, great, you have an explanation for scum!Auro not killing town!Dong. Now, what about it? Is this your grand Auro case?

Baby, i havent even started. I just wanted to talk to you now that you were on and saw that you were saying some things that were just wrong. Dont mistake hospitality for something else, i'll be right back with my case if you didnt like mine

[Donempire]

I meant hop

[Donempire]

And you are right on with 2827.
You could be curious if you havent decided yet and were thinking.

I await your responses to everything else with bated breath.

[Donempire]

Everything else? You misrepped me and gave a lot of evidence that I townread Hop. Yes, I did townread Hop. 2298 wasn't my preferred three lynches, obviously. I was saying those were Cephrir's. Which part of this do you not understand?

I understand everything. Except why did you say you needed to find a lynch target between Gob/Me/Hop/FF if you thought that hop was pretty much not flipping scum?

[Donempire]

Now before someone makes a dumbass argument saying "Auro is defensive again, surely he just be scum, natch!", I need four votes on Gobble. I have two from myself and Dann; Gobble and his partner won't lynch him obviously; so I need to convince 2/3 of the other slots.

You dont need to play the victim, just talk with me instead of talking down to everyone.

[Donempire]

Sort of.

I'll be preparing the case.

[Donempire]

but i was certain on one thing during the later stages of the game: The fact that scum will want to control the narrative so afk players cant be scum, and auro + dann seemed to fit that to a tee.

viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81775
Look at D1 in the linked game. Scum lurked. People scumread the slot for it. People wagoned the slot. They still didn't attempt to control the narrative, and got lynched D1.

*audience erupts in laughter*
Shame that the two next lynches who were also on lurkers (relative to other people anyway) both hit town, and the one scum that didnt attempt to play like i said scum should died. So if anything this reinforces the fact that scum will try to be more active.

[Donempire]

god damn Dong is the most skilled artist at making awful posts, it's crazy

You havent had a correct read in this entire game, and now you're suspecting a me/cheeky team. We should have killed you in d1 fuck this

[Donempire]

Fish and Dong, who do you think Auro’s partner is?

Can you read the thread

[Donempire]

Auro covered his tracks well but theres one problem with it, and thats the VCs.

Spoiler:

url=viewtopic.php?p=11518791#p11518791]post 1523 [/url], T-Bone"]

Vote Count

northsidegal - 7

(Kittymo, Dunnstral, gobbledygook, BBMolla, Dannflor, Cephrir, Dongempire)

Formerfish - 2

( northsidegal, Espeonage)

BBMolla - 2

(CheekyTeeky, Formerfish)

gobbledygook - 1

(Hopkirk)

Not Voting - 1

(Auro)

Activity Check - Lynch at #1460

Deadline: (expired on 2020-01-17 22:59:30)

[/quote]

The problem isnt that he didnt vote northsidegal

despite being the third highest activity poster, so he cant say he missed it,

but also that he didnt vote anyone. As i said, he was third highest poster and yet he was still undecided on the day 1 lynch despite there being 2 clear choices for wagons.
Oh but of course, he didnt forget to

Formerfish

VOTE: FF

L-1

.. put formerfish at l-1, and then unvoted 4 posts later. Thats just him being afraid of being responsible for formers lynch, because if you think formers scum and you put him on l-1, you dont pull it back. Only reason for such a stupid pullback is if he was trying to get someone to lolhammer for him and then blame the hammerer tomorrow so nsg wouldnt be pushed as hard.

Spoiler:

if i were scum, i wouldn't have any problem having rc just give me things to say. i don't have nearly as much time as i would like right now and while it really pains me to be playing this way in front of the entire site, i don't want to be killed before i can actually impact the game.

also, i don't really care to unvote if it's not doing any damage.

NSG I'm inclined to believe you have time for TM *for reasons*, can you come play the game kthanx

Also this post is very bad for shading nsg but not giving any real reasons for that so others cant follow up on interrogating nsg about it. Also despite this he never pushed on nsg even though he claims to know of the "reasons" she CAN play but neither discloses that or pushes her on that fact, which i find odd because then why would you bother bringing it up especially after she kept on being inactive

there's no reason to doubt that she is telling the truth

I can imagine scum motivation, BoP. NSG as scum can't bus teammates, and driving a town lynch would be held against her. Not "participating" also explains away that she won't be NK'd.

Also cases against nsg here, but never pushes her. He responses with the possible scum motivation for nsg while also saying she will be easier to sort out. Does this seem like town trying to lynch a suspected scum or a scum partner trying to keep her alive while pointing out the things that make her suspicious so it isnt too obvious and he gets free cred? I mean, if he was trying to lynch her, you'd expect him to vote her at least once.

[Donempire]

Compare his indecisiveness on nsg to him being super sure on espeonage day 2:

Spoiler:

Espe seems like the obvious choice, I'm interested to know why Dunn is unsure. Too scummy to be scum?

Don't be scummy now I don't want to face the uphill climb of trying to get you lynched.

We should just flashwagon Esp today.

And what does he have to support this foolproof case?

Like I'm already shitted off by being in this game, bc its the worst setup with the weakest playerlist. I don't want other rogue elements coming in and obfuscating the entire thing when it SHOULD be simple enough to just solve the game and be done with the entire thing by the end of the week.

That said, it seems like people are more interested in protecting their scum games by playing blatantly anti town and claiming it's their town meta. So idek any more.

This post feels fake to me.

This is his only post that gave a reason he could scumread espeonage.

This is it.

All the while he was doing that, he was continuously setting up gobble to be the next lynch,

I feel like nsg wouldn't have happened without gobble though

Doubt it

Scum Gobbles giving up is not a plausible scenario?

FF, all the reasons for Gobscum are from the last few pages.

-Heavy unnatural AtE
-Made up reads (Esp, Cheeky etc)
-Molla's chainsaw

We can lynch both, but I want the faster win

(Also the reasons he gives for gobble are awful, the only thing that hes correct on is bbs chainsaw but even then the reasons he gives are just window dressing so he can hop on the wagon and say he had his own reasons)

[Donempire]

Moving onto D3, things dont look good for auro still.

He is still pushing the gob lynch on the premises that dunn was killed so the scumteam can push me... the scumteam of himself. Because no one other than gob himself came to my wagon or tried to push it in any meaningfull manner.
He also still doesnt have ANY good reasons beyond surface level to suspect gob:

Wifom worked to avoid his lynch end of D2.
Also, look at his entrance today.

Citing wifom saved him, the same thing which also saved former and bb on d1. Last i checked we only had room for 2 scummates alive.
But that doesnt matter. Auro says it himself:

Dunn was pushing Dong, right?
I just want to lynch the turkey though.

Spoiler:

I’m fairly discouraged at this point following the recent modkill and consequent tiebreaker implications. Been off work today and this is the fourth time I’ve opened up the site intending to get into the game then getting demotivated and just closing it.

I don’t think any of my team particularly joined with the expectation of winning, mostly to try and enjoy the games. They’ve been in general a lot less fun than I expected (tonewise trying to read has been a slog) and I’m struggling to find the motivation to help my team. I’m glad I got the game I did since people here actually seem enjoyable to play with. I’m basically treating this as a normal game rather than team mafia, albeit one where Hectic can occasionally weigh in, and where the mods read everything in our PTs so I can force the mods to read my erotica if I put game related content interspace throughout it.

The modkill itself results in a tiebreaker in the large theme which is pretty central to why I’m discouraged- we can’t mechanically win unless conditions so unlikely they’re virtually impossible have already been met. It’d be a lot easier if any of us had managed to roll mafia (which would be pretty good normally for team mafia bsed on last time) since then we could still win if we all won our games. Annoyingly, the tiebreaker means that even if all three of us were able to immediate call out and lynch the entire scumteams in our respective games it’s not possible for us to win the event unless very specific and unlikely events (all of which are completely out of our control, and most of which have already been determined):

1.) The game we are not in MUST be won by scum as the number of other teams (17) less expected scum numbers across all games is not sufficient to mean that we are the only team who won all of our games (unless there’s more scum than you’d anticipate based on regular setup design and/or there’s exactly one scum per each team).
2.) Every member of said winning scumteam MUST also have another member of their team who rolled scum and lost (though the loss is assumed knowledge as if we win any scum in game’s we’re in would lose).
3.) The game elements was modkilled in MUST also be won by town.

We need specific results in 2 games we have no way to influence, and we need the distribution of scum/town in each team to be very specific and have specific overlap. Nothing we could have done to stop the modkill either, but that’s gone now. Better hope nobody in your team manages to get modkilled. We’re hoping for pretty much all of the large to get modkilled obviously, since enough modkills means we can technically not lose the tiebreak, and running the numbers that’s actually a lot more likely than any other way we’ve got of inning at this point.

Spent enough time talking about this with my team that I’m reasonably confident I didn’t miss anything, but if anyone notices a way we can possibly still have any chance of winning even with the tiebreaker in place then please let me know.
Kind of kills a lot of the enthusiasm I had for the team element of team mafia.

Still, going to try and catch up on this absolutely normal and not at all special or once a year event. Expecting to be interrupted by an important call from work at some point though.

Hopkirk 'Hop' Hopkirk

^A post I doubt Hop makes as scum; the emotions here feel genuine. If he was scum, that'd give him a winning chance for TM (apparently) and I don't think he'd go through the effort to post this - why would it help?

Oh the Auro wagon has half shifted so keeping it up is less pressure than I thought. Sure.

VOTE: Northside
Votes NSG. Shifts it later, but read on.

Hop 'Hopimilius' Hopkirk

I didn't read up. I can't now either and no idea when I'll be able to next week due to work.

I've seen the lynch. I've lost all respect for NSG as a player. I've lost the respect that I had for RC as a player. I've discussed it with the team- people who've discussed irl how they like RC - and everyone seems to share this view.

I'm especially irritated as this clearly was only allowed due to reputation. A new player in that slot with an 7 day period without content would have been subbed out. When it's clearly strategic since she was playing elsewhere in TM I'm pissed that it was actually allowed and would have been disgusted if she was pulling that as my teammate.

Quoting my post end gimmick because fuck this game.

I'm mostly disgusted with RC/North and irritated with the mod for enabling it despite prod rules. The lynch I absolutely agreed with as I fairly clearly said. I don't remember if I used the words I want to policy lynch this.

So scum! Hopkirk casually votes NSG mid D1, is worried about not having a winning chance for TM but still is okay; and then when his partner flips he decides to fabricate *this*? I imagine if he was actually teammates with her he'd try to get NSG replaced. These posts look like a genuine town reaction.

Theres a hard defending hopkirk going through the entire day - this is no coincidence, nor is it a genuine read.
Auro hasnt been present in nsgs lynch and he had hammered espeonage, and for neither of them gave a reosonable stance. If he was also present in hopkirks lynch, the VCA for him would look atrocious. It still does, but he has tried to distance himself from this one.
One problem is, like i said, his read isnt genuine. There is only one time hopkirk is mentioned, its brief and its in his readslist.

I'll take a break from the thread for a day or two.

{KittyMo, CheekyTeeky}
{Cephrir, Dann, Dunn}
{BBMolla, Dong}
{FF, Gob}
{Espeonage, NSG}

Hopkirk I dunno where to place you, sorry

This is all the way back in D1, and he never mentions hopkirk until post 2273. Why then is he so insistent on defending hopkirk? For easy towncred of course.
Admittedly, he

does

put more effort into towncasing hopkirk than he did towncasing nsg or scumcasing espeonage, but its still just this single post and besides this he doesnt have any other arguments to show beyond a doubt that hopkirk is town. Despite this he seems absolutely certain that hopkirk is town and we should lynch gobble in his stead.
Like i said, going from "i dont know where to place you" to a firm "town" without ever mentioning him for a thousand posts. One wonders how he came to that conclusion about a slot he seemed to have forgotten about for so long.

Spoiler:

No, Dong is town.
Agree, Hop's recent posting has been pretty bad - but please let's have Gobble after we lynch Hop.

Actually, no, I kinda like Hop's catch-up.

These posts are also very iffy. They are made between 20 minutes of each other.
This is how i make sense of this:
I will play devils advocate and assume that auro is town here.
So he read hops, who he is adamantly gunning for right now, catchup and thought that it was pretty bad. Immediately he was willing to go for a hopkirk lynch. After 20 minutes of rereading he decided that his catchup was actually decent.
Now why might town!auro have done this?
If he believed hopkirk was town before all this, merely a bad catchup may have tilted his suspicions a little bit but it wouldnt be enough to make him immediately gun for a hopkirk lynch. As town he would want to lynch scum, naturally, and for that he would want to be sure and bide his time. The simple fact is he was too rash and didnt hesitate at all with throwing hop under the bus, only to re townread him 20 minutes later.
As scum, these events can be explained as he said: He read his posts, thought they were scummy, reread them and thought they were okay.
The problem is that he was so rash with his decision to just be fine with a hopkirk lynch after only a supposedly bad catchup and he forgot all the things he did to defend hopkirk. Again, his read isnt genuine.

[Donempire]

Please iso my last 4 posts to see where i am coming with this, because auro has been spamming the thread in an attempt to discredit me.

So to recap, auros gameplan has been to:

-Be completely on the fence on nsg. Push her softly, but also defend and rationalize her actions. Dont even push her on the points that you brought up against her, just bring them up and leave it there, so it looks like you're attacking nsg but dont vote her or make a case against her.
-Put former on l-1 so maybe someone will lolhammer as the deadline was coming and people were mostly indecisive about the whole thing.
-Hardtunnel esp and gobble as they are already suspected by most of the town and just coast along with that. As i have shown he hasnt brought up any new points against esp if any and yet has been one of the main adversaries against her.
-Keep on pressuring gobble and also shading cheeky and former so you can set up the mislynch for the final day and hopefully win with dann.

Theres so many things i havent focused on. The weird interactions he had with dann or the flip flopping on me and bb constantly are some examples. I thought this would be enough to sway you that auro has never had a genuine read this entire game.
He was on the fence entirely about both of the d1 targets, tried to lynch the town alternative as a last ditch attempt and when it failed made excuses about it (see 3302)
He hardwagoned two players on weak grounds and never engaged with them directly so they couldnt refute his arguments, probably because he had nill to show for it.
And on the last day, he showed his facade when he turned on hopkirk for a split moment before turning back to his old state of "townreading" hop to get the towncred.

I dont like repeating myself, but this bears repeating, and i think this is the only way to hammer this point home given how insistent auro is on spamming the thread to bury everyone elses posts.
Auro hasnt had genuine reads. He never directly engaged. And he doesnt think gobble is scum. In fact, he knows gobble is town.

[Donempire]

He needs 1 more person to side with him so he's not the lynch today. BB is being dumb, Dann probs vote with him and now he's desperate enough for anyone else even though he was so certain gobbles was scum he was willing to die to let us lynch gobbles in Lylo

Like come the eff on Gobbles.

I agree that bb is being a moron and will throw the game because of his ego. Its sad especially because he has no justification for it given he literally hadnt had a correct read.

Can i count you in for voting auro?

[Donempire]

>FF L-1 thing: His reaction made me unvote
>Hoping someone lolhammers: That's an awfully short period of time to expect someone to lolhammer
>Never pushes her: she wasn't playing the game, also I wasn't the only slot worried about her lynch being super bad for town if town
>

Stop with the bullshit. This was the post that made you unvote?

Seriously, its nice to know that you guys would rather lynch an active me than an inactive NSG.

I'll go back to fucking off now.

I hope you all get rekt.

This is what changed your mind on the whole situation? What kind of child are you trying to trick with this? BB is already voting with you, so im genuinely asking.
You wanted to see if someone would hammer since everyone seemed to be undecided, then just fell back on that idea. Its a short time period because you made it short, its not like someone else unvoted to disallow a lolhammer.
Also, im not so worried about you not pushing her as much as i am with you bringing up points against her, saying she should have the time in the world to play and then not bringing it up again when she keeps up the exact same behaviour. Theres no town reason to do that sort of thing, agree?

>"seems like the obvious choice" implies I don't have to case him to push him - the reasons are "obvious", there for everyone to see.
>"We should flashwagon" for reactions
>Why are "heavy unnatural AtE" and "made up content" awful reasons? I provide even more reasons, why ignore them?
>"Window dressing" nothing stops anyone from asking me to detail my reasons, though?

If it is so obvious, why did she turn out to be town?
This seems like its justifying a mislynch on the grounds that "well everyone else was wagoning, so why blame me" which is the LEAST towny thing you can say. It is LITERALLY your responsibility as town to lynch scum, so why would you make excuses for it? Oh right.
Also the "for reactions" shit is very weak as far as reasoning for wagons go. If its self evident that she is scum, what the fuck do you need reactions for? Is she obviously scum or is there still benefit to pushing her some? Your reasonings change depending on the situation and you never say the same thing consistently.
Thats funny. I checked your entire iso and you havent brought up a single reason. And just know you said that the reasons for her being scum was obvious so you didnt case her at all. Can you keep a straight narrative for once?
Heavy unnatural ate is a bad reasoning because ff and bb also did that, yet here we are. Its a scummy thing to do but it doesnt mean someone is scum, it just means they are desperate. Thats a personality thing more than a game motive thing.
Made up content is awful because its just saying something with no backing behind it.

Well, i have been asking you to detail your reasonings, and all you have had to say about that is "i already said them "

[Donempire]

Yes. It's fun watching him squirm though, I don't want another early day after ending yesterday early by accident.

Thats relieving. I can sleep soundly now.

[Donempire]

I like fire trucks and moster trucks

[Donempire]

dong do you play age of empires 2?

Yup, but im only 1800 hd and on definitive i couldnt get a stable rating because of the crashings especially in teamgames. I was just playing yesterday in fact

[Donempire]

dong do you play age of empires 2?

Yup, but im only 1800 hd and on definitive i couldnt get a stable rating because of the crashings especially in teamgames. I was just playing yesterday in fact

I just started ranked/placements in DE

I think I hovered around 1700 or 1750 HD

Thats around the average rating of our team too, we can play one sometime if you're up for it. I'll give you my steam account if you'd think about it

[Donempire]

Jellyfish survived for millions of years without a brain

[Donempire]

So im going to be taken out without the chance to retailate? Well colour me intrigued
Im interested in how it got to this point. Time for a reread.

[Donempire]

But to everyone besides auro and dann, why would i, as scum, go away during the most important part of the game when i couldve supposedly pushed a very easy auro mislynch?
Not an ironic question, this is legit. Thats why i excludee auro and dann in the first place

[Donempire]

And where'd he get mad and cuss people out? Are you talking about a previous day? Lolwut is there some big gap in my memory?

I agree with this. I don’t think I’ve cussed anyone out, BB. I try not to cuss in general.

Auro, when that Hopkirk wagon happened I wasn’t even here. So who made the Hopkirk wagon happen?

Gobble.

You're getting buddied.

Signed,
Dong

[Donempire]

Like Dong is not a strong player imo, no offense, it should be fairly easy to mislynch him if he's town, yet it hasn't happened this game

why?

I am town, so then the other part of your sentence must be wrong.
Its a simple equation if you start thinking outside of the bubble you made for yourself.

[Donempire]

I dont care if i get runup, only possibility is im not here to take a look at it which is a risk im willing to take at this point because there are more pressing matters.
FF though works in no teams.
Bb/ff is ridiculous, it should be self evident that it isnt true.
Gobbles/ff is also a weird pairing, they havent had any interaction up to this point which scum would prioritize since its pairing time.
Cheeky/ff is no.
Dann/ff is a slight possibility, from my pov its impossible but i can see how an outsider would get that line of thinking. They have been interacting a bit and most questions from dann
Auro/ff is once again a no, auro has been shading ff whenever he got the chance but hadnt bothered to directly engage with him.
Ff dong could work, i have been defending him, then again im harddefending anyone who isnt auro or dann, whatever

[Donempire]

Gobble tell me once you're online, i think the game ends when you realize the entire picture
Erm i mean, i want to talk with you over tea

[Donempire]

Please post them

[Donempire]

And i then went away for 2 days. I thought the case was sufficient for people to then understand my reasoning but seems that was for naught.
I was scum, i wouldve tried to snowball the early impact my pists caused and try getting some outliers like gob and bb in on it. I havent.
Plus, reading literacy. Can you say out loud the first bit of that post?

[Donempire]

Dong will you come?

Yes, i was sleeping.
VOTE: dann
Auro isnt voting this. Gobble or bb?

[Donempire]

UNVOTE:
The crews all here!

[Donempire]

There's a difference between reasoned self-doubt and opportunistic illogical belief shifts.

Cheeky, unvote Dann.

Former was on board with the idea of you!scum from the very beginning. The most likely pairing with you is dann. 2 + 2.
That isnt illogical, so stop usong words that dont fit the situation to make yourself seem more credible.

[Donempire]

Carefull with that buddy, you're still trying to buddy him

[Donempire]

Im not scum,obviously.

[Donempire]

Dann and Auro have been sweeping all of their indiscretions in the rug since they are the most active and they just keep jumping back and forth.
Dont forget this lolhammer, or the many tines auro danced around voting nsg, the case i made on him,
Its a sad state of affairs but BB, you need to OPEN your fucking eyes and vote auro.
Cheeky dies tonight. Former, your game to win.

[Donempire]

Why was it obvious dong, I don't take any blame for lynching you

^This is auro in a nutshell. No responsibility for anything. I hope you realize

[Donempire]

Bb is stupid, im happy we wont have to rely on him.

[Donempire]

Like if you could give a case on Dong that would be more effective. Specifically if you could talk about her nsg vote and why she's going for Auro/Dann today instead of you/gobbles/FF who were probably the easiest lynches day start.

NSG vote is for towncred. It doesn't actually give towncred, but I think Dong would think it does. I'm also not 100% confident Dong knew it was a hammer, but regardless that was the lynch we were doing.

Going for Auro to distance cause they're scumbuddies.

What the fuck?
Okay just vote me and flake please

[Donempire]

Oh wait, molla is sheeping cheeky on an auro lynch?

Thats the second dumbest thing i've seen said this hour.

[Donempire]

Because its untrue. Molla has parked his vote on me all day. If he was down to vote you we would have won. Cheeky ff and i are ready.

[Donempire]

Lol @ you still trying to discredit with no proof.
Keep fighting the good fight

[Donempire]

Scouts honor I will not place a vote down on anyone in lylo without talking to everyone that day.

Dong can you please do this too?

Ok

[Donempire]

Dong what are your thoughts on gobbles?

Everybody besides dann auro is locktown for me. Gobbles voting patterns/the way he pushes people like myself and ceph are incredibly weird and offputting but it has to be said that auro has been setting him up to be the lynch for days on end. Knowing that i think hes just inexperienced and there have been times where i doubted my read on him.
FF is obviously town.
We shouldnt have let bb live up until this point, not because hes scum but because he will %100 throw by lynching someone like gobbles or ff.

[Donempire]

Scouts honor I will not place a vote down on anyone in lylo without talking to everyone that day.

Dong can you please do this too?

Ok

Hate that this is the only contribution from Dong rn

My bad, i meant to contribute more. I will now

[Donempire]

Strawman 101

[Donempire]

Everybody besides dann auro is locktown for me.

So if Dann or I flip today, and the game doesn't end, the other person

has

to have a partner... who?

You and dann are partners. Im just entertaining a theory. I have been very vocal with this i think

[Donempire]

UNVOTE:
The crews all here!

What? Did this mean his teammates were pitching in, etc? Dong, explain?

Sure

There's a difference between reasoned self-doubt and opportunistic illogical belief shifts.

Cheeky, unvote Dann.

Also, what exactly happened to FF reconsidering Dong and deciding he was the scummiest slot today over Auro/Me?

The sudden epiphanies are very convenient and even in the scenario he's town, not good reasoning.

Didnt realize that you had a monopoly on self doubt and self doubting your self doubt.

Does Dong voting with you there give you any doubt?

I'm confused who you think my team is if it's not Auro and it seems like instead of naturally doubting yourself, you've just completely forgotten the read you just had. Like, are you town reading Dong now? Did your epiphany on me have an effect on his status at all?

You and dann shat their pants when he hit l1, i just thought that was humorous, and i obliged with unvoting to hear what you would say besides spout bullshit. Now im not going to vote until we have 4 people ready to vote. So far i count three.

[Donempire]

Is it unreasonable to ask who'd be scum if one (or) both of us were town? Ya know, like *just* in case you're wrong?

It isnt unreasonable.
Then again, thinking you two arent scum in this game is quite a mad thought. I have given it some thought and no, nothing else works.

[Donempire]

Gobs is a bad lynch today, if there is a tomorrow he can totally be on the table.

Why? He has the most pairings. I just wanted Dann first because you guys lose if he's scum. But since there's an insane amount of resistance to lynching Dann we may as well make the optimal play.

I disagree. In fact he has the least pairings.

Auro and Dann arent his partner. Both of them, especially auro has been setting up his lynch since days. At daystart he was the only one auro was pushing.

Im not his partner, i buddied up to him at the start of the game but since then he has been incredibly distant with me, i havent come to his aid at all in the previous days and hes trying to push me now.

That leaves bb, ff and you? Meanwhile auro and dann theoretically can be scum with anyone but me and gob.

[Donempire]

Im sorry, i had an exam yesterday and i will enter one in an hour. I'll read everything in a few hours

[Donempire]

If I thought there was a good chance he'd scum I'd simply just vote that
You and Gob want to lynch him anyway and Dann would vote too.

Meh I think you just want him alive because you know if he dies you’re likely getting lynched

He predicts a mislynch on me. Thats why dann has been pushing me so hard for the past few pages.
If i get mislynched today, he can coast on towncred for defending me and danns already not getting lynched. BB or former gets the noose, book gets closed. Please read their posts this day page and tell me that this isnt their plan.

[Donempire]

Thanks cap.
VOTE: Formerfish

Nsg/cheeky/maybe hop

I especially didnt like that nsg was MIA and yet former still said she was making it a 1v1, shes not even here

No one said we cant lynch you today and nsg tomorrowz which is my preferred gamestate as of now.

And their post history shows a pattern of shading NSG/voting for somebody else

Constantly getting brought up.
I didnt know about nsgs reputation, nor do i know still. All i knew at that point was that there was someone acting scummily (former) and a completely afk player (nsg). If you gave me the option to hammer either i'd still hammer former in that situation. We just got lucky with nsg, and the only reason i said nsg was possibly scum was so you didnt badger me over putting her at null while everyone had her at scumread, i didnt scumread her at that point, there simply wasnt enough info.
So this is a double edged sword for me, either i vote to kill nsg, which is taking a huge risk and either hit scum and get blamed for not pushing her, hit town and get blamed for hammering, or not hammer and get blame for standing idle.
If you want to have something to push me on, i have enough material today. Use it.

[Donempire]

What happens if Dong flips town?

I kill myself

LMAO good one buddy
Can we talk at some point? I've been trying to converse directly with you for a few days now.

[Donempire]

A mislynch is when a Townie is lynched, whether Vanilla or a Power Role.
By definition, you cant be mislynched.

[Donempire]

So you think its a possibility that cheeky gets night killed there. By proxy, you think there is a possibility that cheeky is town.

So your proposed team is BB/gobble?

[Donempire]

Okay, if you're town i will sheep your reads to the tee.

[Donempire]

im responding to it

[Donempire]

Spoiler:

Cobbled together reasons between me and EP for why we think that Dong is scum.

Yeah formers scum.

I have never believed his posts were anything outstanding, but thats not the smoking gun for me. The last 3 posts he made seem like its coming from frustrated scum that got caught due to luck, and his desperation to switch to a NSG wagon shows that also.

Dong is aggressively shading Formerfish here for his vote on the NSG wagon. This has the double effect of defending against an NSG lynch by painting the people voting her in a bad light. This also helps try to move the town towards a Formerfish lynch (which was a very real possibility at this point in the game).

Gobble wagon seems rushed. I think people caved in too early to formers offensive.

I especially didnt like that nsg was MIA and yet former still said she was making it a 1v1, shes not even here

I will also say that i dont like how cheeky attacked dunn out of thin air - it seems like it was meant as a way to lull the nonattentive to thinking dunn was doing something malicious against her when he wasnt. As far as i see its not like she scumreads him either so wtf?

EP has a few quick thoughts about this post. He says that it is a misrepresentation of Formerfish "going into a 1v1" with NSG. EP also says that this is another soft defense of NSG when Dong said "shes not even here" because it is providing a subtext that NSG's lynch will have less appealing information than a Formerfish lynch.

I think this post is interesting because here Dong states that he does not like how Cheeky attacked Dunn. This will be important because this seems to imply a scum read on Cheeky. I think this is also a potential buddy comment with Dunn who was townreading Dunn at the time.

Thanks cap.
VOTE: Formerfish

The timing of the vote is suspect to me.

Yeah formers scum.

I have never believed his posts were anything outstanding, but thats not the smoking gun for me. The last 3 posts he made seem like its coming from frustrated scum that got caught due to luck, and his desperation to switch to a NSG wagon shows that also.

It comes several hours after this post where Dong acknowledges the read.

Why didn't Dong vote Former there

^ And Dong is posturing around voting Former, yes

It also comes after these posts where Dann and Dunn discuss that Dong's actions around the Formerfish wagon look like posturing.

Im not posturing. You think we're done? I wanted to use the some time left over to make up for my activity.

To which Dong replies that he isn't posturing.

Why didn't Dong vote Former there

Not a logical reason yes but i didnt check the vc or the deadline, i just wanted to get in whatevee i had in mind and go to bed

Not defending myself but i dont want anyone to get the wrong ideas either.

And a very passive defense of himself. The way this post is worded gives me the impression that Dong did not want to look like he was strongly defending himself against that attack out of a fear for how the optics might look.

EP then says the next string of posts don't make much sense because of Dong's stated reads and their progressions.

Nsg/cheeky/maybe hop

We have this group of three, which appears to be a townbloc given the defense of NSG.

Thats where my mind is at. I dont think i will be considering anyone else to lynch tomorrow but i do want to make a case on esp come tomorrow.

This is seemingly reinforced by the comment here that he wants to push Espeonage the next day. If it was a scum list, Dong would have listed Espeonage in that list.

But if that is a town list, it doesn't explain Dong's earlier comment that he did not like Cheeky's attack on Dunn, a person who he openly defending and town reading.

Im starting to turn on ceph and i tr kitty. I didnt like hops recent posting however.

And it further doesn't make sense when he is softly attacking Hopkirk here.

So really, what is that list? And why is NSG in it when she was barely present as Dong himself stated?

Thanks cap.
VOTE: Formerfish

Nsg/cheeky/maybe hop

I could vote here for sure. Votes me but doesn't have me as scum...

Lol? I already said that was my suspect list for tomorrow. Today its just you, and i think your fates been sealed

Ah, so it IS a scum group. But there's no justification for NSG being there. Especially given Dong's earlier statements about NSG and the oblique defense of the NSG wagon by virtue of attacking Formerfish. Here Dong discusses Formerfish's wagon as if it is a done deal. He is actively pushing the narrative that Formerfish is the lynch today, even though he apparently now scumreads NSG.

This progression doesn't track for me or EP.

fuck your attempt to deflect onto me

Hes not detlecting you idiot, dunns been active. Do you know what deflecting means?

Here we see a further defense of Dunn, which I think is important because it could explain why Dunnstral was later killed after his support on Dong was visibly weakening.

I like these wagons what course should I be taking?

Former seems like its a done deal at this pointz i doubt trying to flip everyone on nsg at the last moment will work, and im pretty sure on former (im also convinced on nsg but in a decision of one or the other...)

Again, here Dong is pushing the narrative that Formerfish is a done deal. Not that he is even scum. Just that his wagon is a done deal and it should happen. I think this post is incredibly important in analyzing Dong's thought process of the situation. BUT Dong even gives us more information saying that he could also vote NSG, but one or the other he chooses Former because it is a "decision of one or the other..." when in reality his vote would have made NSG's lynch secure, but his vote on Formerfish just made that wagon a contender.

I like these wagons what course should I be taking?

Former seems like its a done deal at this pointz i doubt trying to flip everyone on nsg at the last moment will work, and im pretty sure on former (im also convinced on nsg but in a decision of one or the other...)

This is a pretty lazy excuse, your vote on nsg would put her to l-1, while your vote on FF ties the wagons at l-2, so "flipping everyone" isn't something that needs to happen if you wanted to

I'll be willing to flip on nsg if formers wagon stops traction, but its not because i scumread nsg over him but rather to just get a lynch in. I'm still in full support of a former hanging.

Dunnstral even calls him out for that very same premise! And Dong backtracks on his certainty of the Formerfish wagon using totally external reasoning rather his own thoughts. This is a parachute phrase. Dong is saying he won't move his vote unless certain external criteria occurs, which he is actively preventing from happening by pushing the narrative that Formerfish's wagon is done.
Now we get into the reason why I have been HMMing the end of Day 1 wagons when we have votes like this...

Sure, tomorrow we can have a better discussion.

VOTE: BB
L1 i think

On someone who was not in his list of scum. Someone he did not openly say he wanted to pressure or case. A vote despite Formerfish being a "done deal."
This is blatantly a preservation vote to protect NSG. Notice how the Formerfish wagon LOST TRACTION yet Dong DID NOT VOTE NSG. This is directly contradictory to what he said he would do earlier.

I still dont like cheeky but im not the nk, i can expand on that tomorrow.

He still doesn't like Cheeky, yet he is fully willing to join a flash wagon that she started. How does that make sense from a town perspective? It doesn't. It makes sense from the scum perspective of a player wanting to get a lynch.

Why is every top wagon just kicking and screaming and then we go on to another wagon

Dong is openly bemoaning that this is now the SECOND wagon that someone has used emotion to get themselves out of.

NSGs not here to flood an entire page with insults, guess thats who were lynching today then

Here is again softly defending NSG by calling out reasoning for people unvoting.

Thats the worst compromise for me but sure..

VOTE: NSG

He then says that the NSG hammer is the worst compromise for him when he was openly stating he saw her as scum earlier. Dong's reads and actions surrounding these wagons

do not make sense

. Given his earlier comments, it is not the worst compromise. It was the ORIGINAL compromise he agreed to when he said he would vote there if the Formerfish wagon lost traction. Which it did. To which he then voted BBmolla. A wagon that was started by one of his earlier stated scum reads. A scum read that he still maintained as we can see in the quote below.

That flash BBmolla wagon has to be scumdriven change my mind

I agree. I believe that cheeky especially should be looked into tomorrow.

Whatever nsg flips doesnt mean anything. Scum can say "durr if hes town/scum then so and so is scum!!" since they know the flip beforehand. What all of you need to do now is shut up about it, we'll know her role in a few hours.

The icing on the cake is that Dong is openly trying to get people to stop talking about things simply because he hammered and the flip was coming. What? Why would a townie want that to happen? Why wouldn't he want to continue to talk especially when he made a comment that he was CONCERNED about his activity and interactions in the thread here:

Im not posturing. You think we're done? I wanted to use the some time left over to make up for my activity.

Why didn't Dong vote Former there

Not a logical reason yes but i didnt check the vc or the deadline, i just wanted to get in whatevee i had in mind and go to bed

Not defending myself but i dont want anyone to get the wrong ideas either.

Again, the trains of thought coming from Dong do not make sense.

This is why EP and I are convinced that Dong is scum.

When Dong opened with a case against Auro and then just slipped into the background today... it is all scummy to us.

Digging up old wounds, so i can stitch it back.

Yeah formers scum.

I have never believed his posts were anything outstanding, but thats not the smoking gun for me. The last 3 posts he made seem like its coming from frustrated scum that got caught due to luck, and his desperation to switch to a NSG wagon shows that also.

Dong is aggressively shading Formerfish here for his vote on the NSG wagon. This has the double effect of defending against an NSG lynch by painting the people voting her in a bad light. This also helps try to move the town towards a Formerfish lynch (which was a very real possibility at this point in the game).

What the fuck does aggressively shading mean? I'm openly saying that former is scum there, there is no shading going on. The only reason i didnt vote FF was because he was L-1 a page ago, i want a lynch but i want to make a consensus lynch instead of lolhammering. Thats a scummy thing?
Also, no shit, i wanted to lynch former and didnt want to lynch nsg. You're just coming to that conclusion?

Gobble wagon seems rushed. I think people caved in too early to formers offensive.

I especially didnt like that nsg was MIA and yet former still said she was making it a 1v1, shes not even here

I will also say that i dont like how cheeky attacked dunn out of thin air - it seems like it was meant as a way to lull the nonattentive to thinking dunn was doing something malicious against her when he wasnt. As far as i see its not like she scumreads him either so wtf?

EP has a few quick thoughts about this post. He says that it is a misrepresentation of Formerfish "going into a 1v1" with NSG. EP also says that this is another soft defense of NSG when Dong said "shes not even here" because it is providing a subtext that NSG's lynch will have less appealing information than a Formerfish lynch.

I think this post is interesting because here Dong states that he does not like how Cheeky attacked Dunn. This will be important because this seems to imply a scum read on Cheeky. I think this is also a potential buddy comment with Dunn who was townreading Dunn at the time.

Oh? How is that a misrepresantation? If you're going to say something, explain it so i dont have to fish it out.
Also, one quick question:
Did nsgs lynch provide any information?
If we lynched former, we would have lynched nsg tomorrow and both auro and dann would have been at a knifes edge. The game situation would have been

better

.
Also yeah, i hard scumread cheeky for the longest time. You're just saying things that have been clear for ages like its a brand new revelation.

Spoiler:

Thanks cap.
VOTE: Formerfish

The timing of the vote is suspect to me.

Yeah formers scum.

I have never believed his posts were anything outstanding, but thats not the smoking gun for me. The last 3 posts he made seem like its coming from frustrated scum that got caught due to luck, and his desperation to switch to a NSG wagon shows that also.

It comes several hours after this post where Dong acknowledges the read.

Why didn't Dong vote Former there

^ And Dong is posturing around voting Former, yes

It also comes after these posts where Dann and Dunn discuss that Dong's actions around the Formerfish wagon look like posturing.

Im not posturing. You think we're done? I wanted to use the some time left over to make up for my activity.

To which Dong replies that he isn't posturing.

Why didn't Dong vote Former there

Not a logical reason yes but i didnt check the vc or the deadline, i just wanted to get in whatevee i had in mind and go to bed

Not defending myself but i dont want anyone to get the wrong ideas either.

And a very passive defense of himself. The way this post is worded gives me the impression that Dong did not want to look like he was strongly defending himself against that attack out of a fear for how the optics might look.

Whats your point
Like, there is nothing for me to say here. There is no point.
It comes several hours after i say former is scum, because like i said, he was at l-1 just last page. I didnt want to risk lolhammers or hurrying up the lynch.
I wasnt posturing, and you didnt say anything about that.
And no, i dont care about "how the optics look" or about defending myself. I have been heavily scumread this entire game. The optics look like a boot fished from the marianas trench. I didnt defend myself because i dont care, my number 1 priority is finding scum which at that point i hadnt done.

Spoiler:

EP then says the next string of posts don't make much sense because of Dong's stated reads and their progressions.

Nsg/cheeky/maybe hop

We have this group of three, which appears to be a townbloc given the defense of NSG.

Thats where my mind is at. I dont think i will be considering anyone else to lynch tomorrow but i do want to make a case on esp come tomorrow.

This is seemingly reinforced by the comment here that he wants to push Espeonage the next day. If it was a scum list, Dong would have listed Espeonage in that list.

But if that is a town list, it doesn't explain Dong's earlier comment that he did not like Cheeky's attack on Dunn, a person who he openly defending and town reading.

Im starting to turn on ceph and i tr kitty. I didnt like hops recent posting however.

And it further doesn't make sense when he is softly attacking Hopkirk here.

So really, what is that list? And why is NSG in it when she was barely present as Dong himself stated?

Its a lynch list.
"I wouldnt consider lynching anyone besides those tomorrow" means its a lynch list.
I only defended nsg because there wasnt enough info to go around. Same drum.
On espeonage, mind the "BUT" in the sentence. I wouldnt want to lynch outside that group BUT i want to make a case on esp.
Its such an easy thing, you can just ask me instead of speculating. You know, if you considered me to be aligned with the same faction instead of burrowing your head underground and doing whatever auro and dann want you to.

Thanks cap.
VOTE: Formerfish

Nsg/cheeky/maybe hop

I could vote here for sure. Votes me but doesn't have me as scum...

Lol? I already said that was my suspect list for tomorrow. Today its just you, and i think your fates been sealed

Ah, so it IS a scum group. But there's no justification for NSG being there. Especially given Dong's earlier statements about NSG and the oblique defense of the NSG wagon by virtue of attacking Formerfish. Here Dong discusses Formerfish's wagon as if it is a done deal. He is actively pushing the narrative that Formerfish is the lynch today, even though he apparently now scumreads NSG.

This progression doesn't track for me or EP.

ok

fuck your attempt to deflect onto me

Hes not detlecting you idiot, dunns been active. Do you know what deflecting means?

Here we see a further defense of Dunn, which I think is important because it could explain why Dunnstral was later killed after his support on Dong was visibly weakening.

This is just rich.

Spoiler: Dunn clearly supporting me

Skimming the last two pages I like BBmolla for town too, but I don't remember him from the early game at all.

This statement in particular seems to come from a town viewpoint.

I'm not at all sold on a Gobble lynch.

FF, your team was giving you inputs: can you specify what exactly?

Why is it implausible disengaged scum Gobble would forgetfully post this?

I didn't like gobble's vote there, though.

Is there something in the progression of his vote that you don't like or is it more bad news bears because you think he's scummy in general? I'm very unsure on gobble right now because there's sort of a black hole in progressions for how he got to his original big read wall. WATCHING ACTIVITY LEVELS was bizarrely political phrasing for the absence. Now he uhhh, apparently likes everyone he used to dislike more besides Dongempire. I thought him liking FF for the burden of proof thing was random because it seemed like one of the more nai things in FF iso to me, but the overall progression on the read doesn't come off implausibly to me on face.

It felt like they turned on FF as soon as they could and that their read there was fake

^ And Dong is posturing around voting Former, yes

Dannflor, the entire formerfish wagon right now is lurky people who started coasting around end of day, aside from you

Look at bbmolla. Look at Espeonage. Look at Dong getting ready.

I like these wagons what course should I be taking?

Former seems like its a done deal at this pointz i doubt trying to flip everyone on nsg at the last moment will work, and im pretty sure on former (im also convinced on nsg but in a decision of one or the other...)

This is a pretty lazy excuse, your vote on nsg would put her to l-1, while your vote on FF ties the wagons at l-2, so "flipping everyone" isn't something that needs to happen if you wanted to

My kill pool is:

[Esp, Dong, Hopkirk]

This is exactly my kill pool right now

Either i kill him tonight since he clearly isnt in the mood to support me (whatever that means) or i never bother with him because im not scum.
The guy has me at his killpool, but apparently his support meant a lot to me. Sure.

Spoiler:

I like these wagons what course should I be taking?

Former seems like its a done deal at this pointz i doubt trying to flip everyone on nsg at the last moment will work, and im pretty sure on former (im also convinced on nsg but in a decision of one or the other...)

Again, here Dong is pushing the narrative that Formerfish is a done deal. Not that he is even scum. Just that his wagon is a done deal and it should happen. I think this post is incredibly important in analyzing Dong's thought process of the situation. BUT Dong even gives us more information saying that he could also vote NSG, but one or the other he chooses Former because it is a "decision of one or the other..." when in reality his vote would have made NSG's lynch secure, but his vote on Formerfish just made that wagon a contender.

Okay. So this post makes it sound like i dont think former is scum, and rather that i just want his lynch to be done with.
This would be a reasonable thought process, EXCEPT i say in the end that im still pretty sure on former. So i still believe former is scum.
And for the rest of the post, see below

Spoiler:

I like these wagons what course should I be taking?

Former seems like its a done deal at this pointz i doubt trying to flip everyone on nsg at the last moment will work, and im pretty sure on former (im also convinced on nsg but in a decision of one or the other...)

This is a pretty lazy excuse, your vote on nsg would put her to l-1, while your vote on FF ties the wagons at l-2, so "flipping everyone" isn't something that needs to happen if you wanted to

I'll be willing to flip on nsg if formers wagon stops traction, but its not because i scumread nsg over him but rather to just get a lynch in. I'm still in full support of a former hanging.

Dunnstral even calls him out for that very same premise! And Dong backtracks on his certainty of the Formerfish wagon using totally external reasoning rather his own thoughts. This is a parachute phrase. Dong is saying he won't move his vote unless certain external criteria occurs, which he is actively preventing from happening by pushing the narrative that Formerfish's wagon is done.
Now we get into the reason why I have been HMMing the end of Day 1 wagons when we have votes like this...

For clarification: I'm not a perfect player. But i know my strengths and weaknesses, and my number one weakness is not following voting procedure or vote counts. At the point i made the i was suspicious of former post, or the voting former post i hadnt checked the VCs once. My only reason for being there is to get my voice out since my vote can be placed on and off easily, its not something that weighs too heavily for me.
Again, my number 1 lynch to go is former. I only hammered nsg because there was no way former was dying at that point. If there was a sliver of possibility that former could be lynched even if nsg was on l-1, i would be on his case.
FORMER
WAS
MY
SCUMREAD.
And im kind of tired of responding to your shit arguments saying im scum for pushing a scummy player over someone whos afk.

Sure, tomorrow we can have a better discussion.

VOTE: BB
L1 i think

On someone who was not in his list of scum. Someone he did not openly say he wanted to pressure or case. A vote despite Formerfish being a "done deal."
This is blatantly a preservation vote to protect NSG. Notice how the Formerfish wagon LOST TRACTION yet Dong DID NOT VOTE NSG. This is directly contradictory to what he said he would do earlier.

Lets analyze the situation where i did this:
Four other people already voted for BB: We were trying to lynch him with CFD. Yes, he wasnt my favourite suspect to vote but it was something. I admit i couldve done better and went for nsg but felt lazy. You do have a point there.
However this isnt a preservation vote. If this was, i wouldnt have hammered nsg no matter what. Many people barely survived a l-1 vote that day, why couldnt nsg?

I still dont like cheeky but im not the nk, i can expand on that tomorrow.

He still doesn't like Cheeky, yet he is fully willing to join a flash wagon that she started. How does that make sense from a town perspective? It doesn't. It makes sense from the scum perspective of a player wanting to get a lynch.

It makes sense from a town player tired of everyone ATEing out of their lynches so we're left with undesirable lynches, so i said fuck it. BB had the same scum equity as nsg did at that point, why not just hop in if ffs going to break the furniture when i push him.
Also, scum!dong isnt this bold.

NSGs not here to flood an entire page with insults, guess thats who were lynching today then

Here is again softly defending NSG by calling out reasoning for people unvoting.

Whats your point

Thats the worst compromise for me but sure..

VOTE: NSG

He then says that the NSG hammer is the worst compromise for him when he was openly stating he saw her as scum earlier. Dong's reads and actions surrounding these wagons

do not make sense

. Given his earlier comments, it is not the worst compromise. It was the ORIGINAL compromise he agreed to when he said he would vote there if the Formerfish wagon lost traction. Which it did. To which he then voted BBmolla. A wagon that was started by one of his earlier stated scum reads. A scum read that he still maintained as we can see in the quote below.

Look numbnut
I wanted to lynch former
so lynching nsg is the worst compromise for me here because if shes town we're fucked to a tee, even if she is scum we're fucked because we're back to square one while the chances of hitting scum are dwindled and we'll shoot ourselves in the foot for the next coming days.
The compromise for me is we lynch former today, and nsg TOMORROW. When we have adequate posts to compare her to. If she doesnt, she dies anyway. If she does, great, we have a basis to read her on. EVEN BETTER.
Certainly better than fucking lolwagoning her day 1 and then mislynching 2 people, getting pocketed by both scum and having all your reads be incorrect, i think.

[Donempire]

Theres a few more lines i havent responded to, but fuck it, its the same shit you've been saying for half a paraghraph and im tired of repeating myself.
I feel bad for having typed this response, like actual pain.

[Donempire]

Hope your exam goes well.

Thanks

[Donempire]

Dong, other than responding to the case, is there anything you want me to address?

I would like to talk to you about auro, unlike you said i didnt just say my piece and leave, i have been trying to push it. What do you think about it?

[Donempire]

Bb please just vote me and flake, just flake until you are replaced or someone is lynched please

[Donempire]

I'm begging you BB just vote me please god

[Donempire]

And who is scum Auro's buddy?

Your mom