In post 841, Looker wrote:Also, @Umlaut: My post right before that one had reads and a post, so why say anything at all if you're not going to reference it? Do you see how you could come off as scummily subjective?
I don't know, your response to the post bothered me whereas your previous post I just barely cared about at all when I read it. If you think that's scummy of me
In post 834, Looker wrote:
[*]@Reundo: I didn't consider it sudden. Sudden, to me, would be going to 16 posts from 6 after someone mentioned my activity. Either way, I'm still reading and there's more than one mafia. Unless you're telling me that Hoctac, LuckyLuciano, and Quick are all town?
That's cute, but still doesn't explain what you were scum-reading Quick for at the time, though now I'm also wondering what prompted you to move off of him and onto brass?
In post 841, Looker wrote:Also, @Umlaut: My post right before that one had reads and a post, so why say anything at all if you're not going to reference it? Do you see how you could come off as scummily subjective?
I don't know, your response to the post bothered me whereas your previous post I just barely cared about at all when I read it. If you think that's scummy of me
then don't try to convince me of that
, vote me or something.
So, pretty much the
same
thing as Quick: "Shut up and don't talk to me."
I know I'm not scum. You're not going to convince me I'm scum. If you think I'm scum then tell someone else, not me.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
@Umlaut I was thinking it might be a soft too. I'm not sure why you'd point it out tbh but I'll wait for your reasoning. Also in your Lucky recap could you go over what changed between this post and your Quick vote if you weren't planning on doing so already.
Wait, is this all part of your information? You were informed that there is a neighborhood consisting of Hoctac, Atarashi, valoneast, and Zulfy,
and
that one of them is scum? Is there anything else you were informed about?
@Quick
In case it wasn't clear, could you regard this as an actual and not rhetorical question, and answer it?
Yesseroo.
Also, why is Looked voting for me? It seems other people can understand what I am saying just fine, but Looker is basically voting for me because they don't understand what I wrote? I don't think that is a good reason to vote someone?
In post 746, Quick wrote:If you cannot understand simple English, perhaps you should do some more reading?
"I don't understand what you are saying" should not mean, "You are Scum because I don't understand you"
How many games do you have under your belt
?
You're trying to insult me, and you should stop.
Also, if I couldn't understand a language, what use would it be to keep repeating it? Isn't the natural progression to ask for clarification?
I
do
understand what you're saying - I just don't understand why a town player would do and say what you've done and said.
This
is another distraction like the fight club thing - what does my game count have to do with the questions I'm asking you?
In post 747, Quick wrote:Okay, he's a vet. That means he is forcing me to spill my guts.
Good luck, I would rather do this:
VOTE: Looker
Because he cannot think hard enough to understand what I have written.
I don't understand why asking you questions would be forcing you to do anything, but, even so, what information would you be in possession of that you didn't want me to have? If you're an Informed Townie and you've already informed the town, what other information would you have? You're lying, aren't you?
Good luck with what? You'd rather vote me than to talk to me? What threat do I pose to you that this would be your course of action?
Also, you're voting me not because you think I'm scum, but because you think I'm dumb? Does that mean that you think I'm an easy target?
In post 764, Hoctac wrote:Should I do more cases? I feel this is enough for now.
If you're offering, can you do one on Reundo, farside22, and SirCakez?
In post 747, Quick wrote:Okay, he's a vet. That means he is forcing me to spill my guts.
Good luck, I would rather do this:
VOTE: Looker
Because he cannot think hard enough to understand what I have written.
this post is junk
what even is that reasoning for a vote?
RIGHT?!?!?
In post 825, SirCakez wrote:I actually kind of dislike this megaspam from Lucky
I find it tends to be a scum tactic often (like "I made a lot of "content" therefore i'm town"
In post 824, LuckyLuciano wrote:If this was partition mafia and there was a group consisting of {Brass, Zulfy, Quick, Looker, Hoctac}, that group would be lynched and hit at least 2 mafia.
ofc those are the five most suspected slots universally
what's the point of this post?
Man, I like you. Quick question, though: Do you think you know why yourself, Reundo, and farside22 have been able to avoid votes/suspicions? Do you feel other people are just scummier?
@Reundo: I didn't consider it sudden. Sudden, to me, would be going to 16 posts from 6 after someone mentioned my activity. Either way, I'm still reading and there's more than one mafia. Unless you're telling me that Hoctac, LuckyLuciano, and Quick are all town?
And that question "Are Reundo, Farside22, and SirCakez all guaranteed town?", I posed to the town.
In post 841, Looker wrote:Also, @Umlaut: My post right before that one had reads and a post, so why say anything at all if you're not going to reference it? Do you see how you could come off as scummily subjective?
I don't know, your response to the post bothered me whereas your previous post I just barely cared about at all when I read it. If you think that's scummy of me
then don't try to convince me of that
, vote me or something.
So, pretty much the
same
thing as Quick: "Shut up and don't talk to me."
Bro, how about you actually
think
about the implications of what I am saying instead of just assuming I must be up to no good because you don't understand what I am saying?
Quick, why would you reveal your information so quickly? There was no hammer on you. I was thinking this last night, why would an informed townie claim so quickly?
Think about it, knowing the existence of a neighborhood and that at least one scum is in it is NOT very valuable this early in the game. Like the math suggests, anybody can basically pick out a group of four people and reasonably expect to find scum there. You revealing this information is just saying "Oh, it's sunny today, it's probably not going to rain", yes it adds to the conversation, but it doesn't really provide something we didn't know before. The hood basically within a couple of posts understood that there's basically scum in there. I know I shouldn't use math here, but 3/13 = 23% and 1/4 = 25% are basically the same (chances of hitting a scum in a whole village vs chances of hitting scum in the hood)
This line of play makes me think, why claim so early? If I were you I'd at least crumb a bit, in case I die N1. That way when you flip we'd comb through your's and Klick's iso, and try to find that info. You can probably reasonably expect us to find it depending on how intelligent you think we are.
I think your PR really shines later on the game. Scum doesn't know you know what you know (haha), so while theirs and other random shots (vig/cop/SK/whatever) start shooting, your PR only increases in effectiveness if a townie from your knowledge of the hood dies. Then instead of >25% of hitting scum, you go up to >33%. At which point you'd reveal. If a scum dies from your neighbourhood, your info wouldn't have mattered anyway.
I went through the Lucky posts again and wasn't as sold as I thought I was, maybe I was just impressed there were so many of them, idk. Have to think about it more, I'm flip-flopping all over the place there.
Spoiler: Lucky postspam commentary
In post 774, LuckyLuciano wrote:I'm going to say that one of the two players that jumped from Ragman to Klick has to be mafia if Ragman is mafia. Given my townread on Farside, and the opportune time of Brass' switch, I'm going to say it's probably Brass. I agree with Umlaut here, and feel like the Klick wagon at this point is a lot of forced nothingness.
In post 776, LuckyLuciano wrote:I take this, being 4 minutes later, to mean that the answer to my last question is "no". Congrats Quick, in the blink of an eye you took all of the reasons I have to believe is town, and you have replaced them with a massive pile of, "Who told you to vote Hoctac immediately upon replacing in?"
I like this point. It's not conclusive but it deserves an explanation.
In post 549, Quick wrote:Okay, flip me. Then you can read all my posts for associations. How does that sound?
This sounds large warning bells for me. The way we play, the Matyr defense is scum! or newb!. Usually only because in RL you're not given as much time to come as something on the spot. But reading his posts up to this point, I find it hard to imagine this being newb!Quick.
Agreed.
Disagreed, I see it come pretty much from any alignment and experience level. I think it's a stupid defense in all cases but I see it enough not to SR it.
In post 606, Umlaut wrote:Actually I want to see Quick's own response before I chime in. (I know the case is entirely on Klick's posts but there is something specific I'd like to see or not see before I make my post)
In post 615, Umlaut wrote:Yeah, the thing I was going to wait on Quick's response for was that Informed Townie with knowledge of a neighborhood is as far as I can tell totally Normal.
If Quick were scum there is a possibility he would be unsure about that and not want to make that claim, which would make life harder for him. Since he did make that claim I suppose that didn't work, but I can see the post Hoctac calls out as more likely as a crumb than a slip.
Can people more familiar with the set-up trends on Mafiascum tell me if this sort of thing is normal? I'm feeling uneasy about Umlaut knowing that Quick was going to claim informed.
Might as well respond to this: I didn't know what Quick was going to claim, I just didn't want to come in and say "oh sure, Informed about a neighborhood is normal" in case Quick was scum trying to figure out quickly whether to fakeclaim that or not.
Yes you are. The constant dismissing of any read against your predecessor as them not being you is sketch.
I agree it's bad, don't know that I agree it's sketch. Town can be bad.
In post 814, LuckyLuciano wrote:See, here's the thing. Let's assume Quick is informed town and he knows the neighborhood immediately. How does he so quickly come to the conclusion that he should vote Hoctac, before reading the game? He just randomly chose a member of the hood and happened to come across a scum read of that player as he caught up? Nah, I don't buy it. Quick is mafia fam.
This is the post that changed my mind, actually, it is a hell of a coincidence if that's what it is. But thinking about it I have to wonder how Quick's being scum explains this any better? Why should he vote Hoctac immediately, just because he's in the neighborhood? There are a lot of people in the neighborhood.
In post 821, LuckyLuciano wrote:I wouldn't say Quick has ignored questions about his role. He's been absent since the questions appeared. Also, I still don't see how town!Quick immediately gravitates towards a Hoctac vote over any other member of the hood, especially given that he hadn't read any content yet. I think you have to make far more concessions to say that Quick RNG'd his eventual scumread, and found him scummy every step of the way as town than as mafia.
Not commenting on whether he ignored questions about his role because he's answered them now. This is, I guess, the same point as last time, so I still like it, but it still needs clarification of why scum!Quick should do this thing that town!Quick shouldn't.
In post 827, LuckyLuciano wrote:But Clidd insists that a player's post count variations between games is a legitimate meta read so I had to get back into my town range before Clidd applies that read to my slot.
As an aside from the Quick thing, I think it's slightly unlikely for scum to make a post like this that explicitly says "I'm doing this to be townread by someone" even if it's funny.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
In post 860, valoneast wrote:Quick, why would you reveal your information so quickly? There was no hammer on you. I was thinking this last night, why would an informed townie claim so quickly?
You realize Quick had pretty much no alternative but to claim Informed in response to Hoctac's case, right?
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
brass + Quick is definitely a possibility, Looker. The fact they're the main two wagons with no alternatives is an eh, but brass' chainsaw on me to defend Quick was so bad that I struggle to see that being town.
I'll just vig brass tonight so we don't have to worry about it tomorrow.
Can't make up my mind on Quick but one of brass/Zulfy is going to be scum whether Quick is or not.
In post 863, Hoctac wrote:Persivul is maybe probably just scum irrespective of other scums though; see my scumcase if you're not convinced.
I couldn't tell if you were serious or not because you immediately followed it with your towncase on Ame. But at any rate it wasn't much of a case IMO.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
What did you like about it? I feel like it's really obvious why town!Quick would have to claim when he did.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
In post 863, Hoctac wrote:Persivul is maybe probably just scum irrespective of other scums though; see my scumcase if you're not convinced.
I couldn't tell if you were serious or not because you immediately followed it with your towncase on Ame. But at any rate it wasn't much of a case IMO.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
In post 860, valoneast wrote:Quick, why would you reveal your information so quickly? There was no hammer on you. I was thinking this last night, why would an informed townie claim so quickly?
Think about it, knowing the existence of a neighborhood and that at least one scum is in it is NOT very valuable this early in the game. Like the math suggests, anybody can basically pick out a group of four people and reasonably expect to find scum there. You revealing this information is just saying "Oh, it's sunny today, it's probably not going to rain", yes it adds to the conversation, but it doesn't really provide something we didn't know before. The hood basically within a couple of posts understood that there's basically scum in there. I know I shouldn't use math here, but 3/13 = 23% and 1/4 = 25% are basically the same (chances of hitting a scum in a whole village vs chances of hitting scum in the hood)
This line of play makes me think, why claim so early? If I were you I'd at least crumb a bit, in case I die N1. That way when you flip we'd comb through your's and Klick's iso, and try to find that info. You can probably reasonably expect us to find it depending on how intelligent you think we are.
I think your PR really shines later on the game. Scum doesn't know you know what you know (haha), so while theirs and other random shots (vig/cop/SK/whatever) start shooting, your PR only increases in effectiveness if a townie from your knowledge of the hood dies. Then instead of >25% of hitting scum, you go up to >33%. At which point you'd reveal. If a scum dies from your neighbourhood, your info wouldn't have mattered anyway.
Could you justify your play for me?
Because I didn't want to fight with people for 10 pages on why I am not scum by not claiming.
Unless you mean, how is it relevant whether you were serious? I suppose I could read the case and consider its merits without caring whether you are being entirely genuine in making it. I did that, and I think it's a very weak case and that Persivul's sort of derping along and not helping is NAI, and there's no real reason to scumread it.
pedit
oh wow, I would have pointed it out when you made the case if I'd realized you were actually confused and not just fucking around.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
Actually I'm still not sure you're not fucking around. Kind of a hazard of your playstyle there.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
Also, in your opinion, what's the likelihood of brass and quick being scum together?
Also, @Umlaut: My post right before that one had reads and a post, so why say anything at all if you're not going to reference it? Do you see how you could come off as scummily subjective?
VOTE: brassherald
Okay, what if Brass is Town? Then it looks like you are building wagons on 2 Town. Do you understand that or naw?
