Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM [game over!]

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh boy we have an innocent child already.

Glad to be playing with Gamma Emerald and Lunar Martian again, for the rest of you I hope we can get along nicely. Pretty excited to be playing with PenguinPower too

RQS:

Best game as town or scum?

Nicknames?

How is your activity going to be this game?

(feel free to add along)

Answers:

I have 2 completed games, both vt, Newbie 2041 and 2043. If you want my best game out of the 2, it would have to be 2043.

ben is fine if you don't want to call me bendover

Pretty high.

Best town game I’m not sure. Best scum game was off site and rather recent.
Common nicknames for me are Gamma, GE, and Gemerald.
Activity will probably trend towards the middle I expect.

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw dannflor being IC is pretty good because he’s like, the number one guess for a deepwolf whenever he plays

[Gamma Emerald]

They both suck.

How would

you

have the game start?

[Gamma Emerald]

Like what we're talking about right now

But...what we are talking about now came from the RQS and RVS? We had to start somewhere and we did, now this is where we are at.

Exactly what I was gonna say

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly, all the talk about theory of whose wagoning is worthwhile or whether RVS is important is just noise. I don't feel it's productive for

anyone

to continue that line of discussion. The only reason I prodded it is because #11 is a very touchy reaction to being voted. In my opinion, it's not pro-town. Jury is still out on whether it's scummy.

Btw dannflor being IC is pretty good because he’s like, the number one guess for a deepwolf whenever he plays

This is a weird thing to say.

What are your reads, Gamma?

I’m thinking Ben is town. That’s about it.

How many times have you played with Dannflor and how many times was he scum, Gamma?

A few, and I’d say a good percentage of them. But like, regardless of alignment that seems to be a common thread for people trying to read him.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh man. Dan being town removes a lot of paranoia but also a lot of meming. Happy and sad.

@mod: Vla for a few days? Bombing in Nashville has limited my internet access.

got it. -D

See Penguin is on the level

[Gamma Emerald]

Does anyone else automatically assume any new person is a Hectic alt?

All the time.

Found the Hectic alt, how’d you know what we were talking about?

[Gamma Emerald]

Scum already know who is what.

They also don’t want other people finding that out.

[Gamma Emerald]

5 pages already? You people are nuts.

VOTE: dannflor

Pretty confident in this vote.

VOTE: Lunar Martian
Nothing about this post is okay.

[Gamma Emerald]

Basically what I am saying is that Lunar can sometimes make these stupid posts so stuff that is stupid but not fully scummy shouldn't be treated as scummy.
If Lunar does make a scummy posts though, then there is an excuse to vote him.

I’m not looking for “excuses” to vote anyone. I feel like LM’s entrance was wack, 5 pages isn’t bad by any measure imo and he made a dumb joke. He doesn’t know how to act rn, which might be newbish or general awkwardness but the feeling when I saw it was scum with a bad entrance.

[Gamma Emerald]

Basically what I am saying is that Lunar can sometimes make these stupid posts so stuff that is stupid but not fully scummy shouldn't be treated as scummy.
If Lunar does make a scummy posts though, then there is an excuse to vote him.

I’m not looking for “excuses” to vote anyone. I feel like LM’s entrance was wack, 5 pages isn’t bad by any measure imo and he made a dumb joke. He doesn’t know how to act rn, which might be newbish or general awkwardness but the feeling when I saw it was scum with a bad entrance.

Is this just a gut read? I complained about the page count too and I could see someone deciding to be lazy and put down a dumb vote without reading anything. Is there something explainable that makes it more scummy than dummy?

It’s a vibe thing too. It just seemed a bit of conspicuous timing for him to come in like that. He posted 2 things others had posted as well, which seems like trying to fit in but not knowing how so he just emulated other people.
I feel like I might have something because the last time I had I read I felt like I do on LM on, it panned out. So I think I’m right again here.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think his eventual response would be more genuine if he didn’t have someone rushing to his defense immediately

[Gamma Emerald]

Why not let him respond before you take the weight of the world upon yourself here? A simple disclaimer would have functioned but you’re full on going at bat for him here it seems.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well the point is made.
Any reads?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: ben dover
LM’s response seemed okay.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: ben dover
LM’s response seemed okay.

What's with this? I remember that you had a townread on me before, so what changed?

Recent events overruled that read. Your play is blatantly whiteknighting.

VOTE: ben dover
LM’s response seemed okay.

Voting Ben seems like the wrong response to something being "OK". I like my vote on you even better now.

Who would you rather I vote? Your response was NAI so I taking a break to push someone else whose interactions regarding you aren’t good

[Gamma Emerald]

Whiteknighting = rushing to defend another person
As for that post, still don’t feel great about it but that discussion has probably run its course

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you assume malicious intentions from Ben rather than just a new player trying to be helpful and help a fellow newbie? Sell me.

The level of investment. I think town would have put the counter evidence on the table and left it at that but he dug in his heels to protect you. He has some level of personal motive to defend you that I doubt town has rn.

[Gamma Emerald]

That definitely didn’t come across in your posting ime

[Gamma Emerald]

Here’s the thing: what do you think is better for sorting LM, being pressured early, or having someone make excuses for what he is going to do before he even does it? If he is an awkward player like you say, I think a sink-or-swim atmosphere would be more apt to revealing his alignment versus what you were doing. Why are you trying to make him harder to read?

[Gamma Emerald]

I wanted Lunar’s response before I switched, and I wasn’t 100% switching there. Seems kinda plain.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think a sink-or-swim atmosphere would be more apt to revealing his alignment versus what you were doing.

Awkward people sink. A lot.

True. But I don’t think it likely in this case.

I wanted Lunar’s response before I switched, and I wasn’t 100% switching there. Seems kinda plain.

Ok so you were going to switch anwyay. If it hadn’t switched to Ben who would it have switched to?

No, if LM’s response stank I would have stayed there. And I still would have pressed Ben on his whiteknighting regardless of whether I moved onto him or not.

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess that second part makes sense.

Why do you think LM sinking would be unlikely here?

Well ben had put into the thread that LM tends to be awkward, so we can use that to not jump to conclusions

[Gamma Emerald]

Vote count 1.06

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-01-04 23:00:00).

execution

Elements [4]:

Alchemist21, Kazyan, Hayker, NoPowerOverMe

Lunar Martian [2]:

PenguinPower, Papa Zito

NoPowerOverMe [2]:

Dannflor

, ben dover123

Gamma Emerald [1]:

Lunar Martian

ben dover123 [1]:

Gamma Emerald

Hayker [1]:

Elements

Not voting [2]:

HeWhoSwims, 2ndchosen1

mod notes

~ penguinpower v/la for a few days

flavour

I feel this VC flavor in my soul.

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess that second part makes sense.

Why do you think LM sinking would be unlikely here?

Well ben had put into the thread that LM tends to be awkward, so we can use that to not jump to conclusions

What? This whole conversation started because people were jumping to those conclusions, and your push continued despite what we were saying, so how did you think that was going to prevent a sinking?

I was pushing because I wanted to see how LM handled the pressure. I’m trying to cultivate a playstyle out of something I tend to do inadvertently, which is doing strong pushes with the intent to place pressure on people to make them readable. I’m trying to make it so I don’t end up projecting false confidence when I do that, as well as seeing if I can finally figure out a way to kick my meta dependence.
Also I don’t recall you saying much in that regard before recently

[Gamma Emerald]

I like the drive in the above post but let's not try and interaction analysis before a flip, please.

What’s your issue with the analysis there?
I do think the solving there is worth a mild townread tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok but question still stands, what did you think was scummy about the post you thought was scummy?

Seconding this, that seemed like a very weak stance for NPOM to take, since it doesn’t define any actual post

[Gamma Emerald]

NoPower (although he needs to drop the "anyone who attacks the townblock is Mafia" shtick).

Where are you seeing this rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

I like Alchemist and Gamma
VOTE: penguin

Why vote Penguin here?

[Gamma Emerald]

I like Alchemist and Gamma
VOTE: penguin

Why vote Penguin here?

I've still got a large chunk of the player list to get through

Not a great answer but it makes your mindset evident.

[Gamma Emerald]

I like Alchemist and Gamma
VOTE: penguin

Why vote Penguin here?

I've still got a large chunk of the player list to get through

Not a great answer but it makes your mindset evident.

I've got a handful of reads so I think I'm doing alright atm

I wasn’t critiquing that. I feel like PZ does where it’s not a full answer, but I could also tell your aim rn is to sort people and voting a person less focused on was your method for that. So essentially, you can do you and I will mind my own, unless I feel something particular about what you’re doing.

[Gamma Emerald]

I usually start by townhunting because scum tends to try to mask themselves whereas town can be easier to read on day 1.

Yeah this is how people should approach games. Scum are going to try and deceive you but town will townslip because they are just town.

I feel like a lot of townslips that crop up tend to come from scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Why uninformed specifically?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you have no comment on anything else that has happened?

[Gamma Emerald]

You seem particularly interested in votes rn PZ. Is there a particular reason for that, or am I seeing something that isn’t entirely there?

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s fair.

[Gamma Emerald]

When I said uninformed I meant about this game, of course he's going to be informed about other games.

Okay but why does he feel that way?

[Gamma Emerald]

I still disagree with Dannflor's assessment of Elements, but:

1) I would rather not do this again,
2) Discussing such old posts isn't advancing the play state or anything,
3) Putting pressure elsewhere will get us more information,
4) When we have a lot of newer arguments to deal with, there are bigger fish to fry, and
5) Even if we get down to brass tacks, the Elements wagon isn't happening.

With all that in mind: UNVOTE: Elements

Penguin is now talking, but not actually saying much. I don't like it.

I'm willing to call Alchemist and Hayker as light scumreads. I know I used Hayker's post as a template with which to lay out my thoughts, but that doesn't remotely mean Hayker is town.

I don't know which of the three would be productive to put some info-squeezing pressure on--Hayker, Alchemist, or Penguin. They all have one vote each. The NPOM wagon is tempting, but I'd like more information from the sources that aren't giving as much of it; I might switch to NPOM if we get to 6 votes there. So...I'll just pick one. VOTE: Penguin

I'm not exactly a fan of this post, specifically the omnibus of reasons to unvote Elements. It looks like Kazyan is quite worried about the optics of that move. Also not of a fan of them essentially saying they'd quickhammer NPOM, I know scum have done that to him in the past.
VOTE: kazyan

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not exactly a fan of this post, specifically the omnibus of reasons to unvote Elements. It looks like Kazyan is quite worried about the optics of that move.

100% correct. Previous posts by me have largely drawn an unexpected amount of shade because my rationale wasn't completely exhaustive, so I gave an exhaustive rationale this time. I'm comfortable with being called scummy for giving as much information as I can to the town.

That seems understandable but there's also the sheeping issues and I feel like it's a bit excessive even then?
I'm curious where Alchemist said anything about lack of optics concern though. Alchemist, if that is correct, why do you find that scummy of Kazyan?

[Gamma Emerald]

That seems understandable but there's also the sheeping issues and I feel like it's a bit excessive even then?
I'm curious where Alchemist said anything about lack of optics concern though. Alchemist, if that is correct, why do you find that scummy of Kazyan?

1) I mean, yeah. I sheeped. That happened. I'm not going to defend it, because I definitely sheeped.

2) My post confirmed your claim that I was concerned about optics. Alchemist does not buy my post's explanation that you are correct. Therefore, Alchemist does not buy that you are correct. You claim is that I was concerned about optics, so Alchemist does not buy that I was concerned about optics. This is subject to change based on whatever Alchemist tries to backpedal on.

In the future--assuming I don't get eliminated--is there something I can do to make my lines of reasoning more clear? Between the two rounds of Elements debacle and this confusion, it's apparent that I'm not great at clarity. Dannflor's earlier null read on me seems to corroborate this.

I can't really say my opinion is the best in this situation but I'd suggest a sort of flowing method of expressing yourself. Don't try to filter your thought process too hard, let people know what you think as you think it, sort of a stream-of-consciousness approach.

[Gamma Emerald]

You don't think potential mafia interactions are an important thing to consider?

They are, but the fact of the matter is that I didn't consider them. I hear that Day 1 interaction analysis isn't good.

idk why but I vibe with this post

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not exactly a fan of this post, specifically the omnibus of reasons to unvote Elements. It looks like Kazyan is quite worried about the optics of that move.

100% correct. Previous posts by me have largely drawn an unexpected amount of shade because my rationale wasn't completely exhaustive, so I gave an exhaustive rationale this time. I'm comfortable with being called scummy for giving as much information as I can to the town.

That seems understandable but there's also the sheeping issues and I feel like it's a bit excessive even then?
I'm curious where Alchemist said anything about lack of optics concern though. Alchemist, if that is correct, why do you find that scummy of Kazyan?

I think their post was a bs reason made to hide that they’re sheeping the IC.

okay

[Gamma Emerald]

The jury is still out on me being a Hectic alt, I see.

It was a funny gag but I don’t think you are based on style

[Gamma Emerald]

Getting a 2041 feel from Gamma rn...which is concerning to me but I'll let Gamma interact some more in this game before I start attaching strings to his meta.

This just seems incorrect? I have been quite active this game, which is a sharp contrast to 2041 where I played passive to start.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the fact Kazyan is so receptive to criticism rn seems a bit scummy, but could also be a newb thing, though I feel like they’d get a little defensive about something they’ve up to now but the trend seems to be entirely deference.

[Gamma Emerald]

Just read that full VC spoiler tag and am now very scared

[Gamma Emerald]

Are those separate or connected thoughts? If the latter, how are they connected?

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah I also had a reaction akin to that one meme of "you guys have a townblock?"

[Gamma Emerald]

HeWhoSwims do you have any conection to derp?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma
hide the pain harold is a treasure, but why is the question about derp is worth asking when it doesn't really help to town or scum hunt?

I caught derp off awkward vibes really easy in the one game I played with them; if that's HWS I'm thinking HWS is town for not seeming like that atp

[Gamma Emerald]

how wrong would it be to TR ben for that thing that just happened

[Gamma Emerald]

I get lots of info on day 1. Not an excuse.

and what info have you gotten in THIS d1?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm saying that I don't have any good reads and would vote for most players right now except for zito and dann. I don't really care what people have to say Day 1 during day 1 because it's easy to just say whatever you need to appear townie. Looking back at it later can be helpful, but the votecount is moreso. You'll note that almost all my voting has been done to create/increase wagons or counterwagons just to see how things rise and fall.

We still haven't had a proper wagon today which is somewhat disconcerting.

we had several early. Why don't they count?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm pretty sure the early game PZ wagon hit 5

[Gamma Emerald]

and what is the basis for those reads? Reads kinda seem like opinions if they're not substantiated.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't recall you giving reasons

[Gamma Emerald]

oh really

[Gamma Emerald]

You have a problem with me trying to do something beyond relying on meta for reads every game?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m probably gonna trust AGar for a while just cuz

[Gamma Emerald]

oh shit AGar are you a UGA fan? My mom went to UGA for her accounting degree so I'm a fan of them

[Gamma Emerald]

okay it peaked at 4
happy now???

[Gamma Emerald]

okay...?
ngl my attention span this game is feeling super fucking short

[Gamma Emerald]

tbf to LM
PP isn't voting PZ bcuz mod status but that doesn't entirely equate to using mod status as a shield
you could 100% vote either of them

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah you've essentially been like A50 when NM is in a game
you aren't using mod status as a reason for you or PZ to live, just using it as a reason you're not voting PZ

[Gamma Emerald]

why

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: alchemist

E-1

[Gamma Emerald]

hrm

[Gamma Emerald]

what is your "day one record" specifically NPOM?

[Gamma Emerald]

I do feel like Alhcemist hasn't really been solving like town!him does

[Gamma Emerald]

Dayvigs aren’t a thing in normals.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ll let your sample size build up before I start buying into that.

[Gamma Emerald]

I do feel like Alhcemist hasn't really been solving like town!him does

I’m gonna leave this link here and say “deja vu”

viewtopic.php?p=12270447#p12270447

Somewhat valid but there’s also the fact that you got better after I pushed you iirc

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: hayker
Yeah I’m gonna need a damn good reason to believe PP gets killed over a doctor
Assuming AGar was a vig shot rn btw

[Gamma Emerald]

Idk
Either feels right as the scum kill rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Idk about that first part but I also missed EoD

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh cool
Yeah that makes sense now

[Gamma Emerald]

Not if I hadn’t fucking read, no

[Gamma Emerald]

look up macho on the mafiawiki

[Gamma Emerald]

This IC stuff is really screwing with things. It's too easy for people to just shadow one person.

scum are probably in there

[Gamma Emerald]

That's a weird assumption

No it’s not, it’s completely logical. It’s a pretty unassailable move to follow to person who has confirmed town motives on one level, and it spares scum from forming real stances. Scum also love to discredit conftown and a good way to do that imo would be to pile on while claiming you’re sheeping the IC, then once that flips wrong the IC’s reads lose some credibility so if they push you you can attack that.

[Gamma Emerald]

Normally I'd agree and be extremely suspicious, but one of the worst offenders has already flipped town for us.

I don’t think one wrong guess is enough to toss the entire pot
Ime that just narrows the suspect pool on that.

[Gamma Emerald]

Idk. Maybe I believe too much in the good side of people or whatever but it would seem outlandish to me to fakeclaim a full doctor of all roles, place the hammer, defend the claim up and down and especially in a game where we already have 3PRs on the table right now -- would scum dare to do that? Would it be worth it to ask a possible other protective to "counterclaim", seeing if we have a doc its out on the table already, or is that incredibly dumb?

What? Hayker made that claim

before

three confirmed power roles happened. He's holding onto the claim because backpedaling would just be confirmation that he lied and is Mafia. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

Lying about your role seems like a thing Kazyan(Alch's claim of cop) so the significance is he's maintaining the claim despite it...i think

What?

[Gamma Emerald]

hello
I'm still thinking we should push Elements or unwnd, scum 100% was sheeping the IC I feel

[Gamma Emerald]

I do feel like Alhcemist hasn't really been solving like town!him does

I put my reasoning for my vote out later

[Gamma Emerald]

hello
I'm still thinking we should push Elements or unwnd, scum 100% was sheeping the IC I feel

Gamma you're giving me Mini Normal vibes lol

did you mean to include a number there?

[Gamma Emerald]

hello
I'm still thinking we should push Elements or unwnd, scum 100% was sheeping the IC I feel

Gamma you're giving me Mini Normal vibes lol

did you mean to include a number there?

The one you were scum in if that helps

There’s only one recently where I was
Does it look like that one?

[Gamma Emerald]

hello
I'm still thinking we should push Elements or unwnd, scum 100% was sheeping the IC I feel

Gamma you're giving me Mini Normal vibes lol

did you mean to include a number there?

The one you were scum in if that helps

There’s only one recently where I was
Does it look like that one?

Yes from where I'm sitting

Just wondering where your head is at

I think PZ’s content recently looks decent but I have a concern about IIoA. If it can be determined it’s not that I’m comfortable TRing PZ

[Gamma Emerald]

I would like if you defined how my game is similar to that scumgame though.

[Gamma Emerald]

@gamma, how often do you accuse people of "white knighting", and why do you think it comes from scum, or benefits scum? more than town, of course.

I think I bring it up as a point somewhat frequently. I think it benefits scum because it garners trust with the person being defended, as long as the target doesn’t have their own hold on the situation. I don’t think it’s scum-exclusive, but when Ben did it in this game it felt like he was impeding wagon development and sorting.

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly, unless I'm all sorts of wrong about this game and like the NPOM/unwnd slot is scum it feels like mafia have given up. That's part of why I was so quick to jump to the Zito as scum theory simply because he was one of the few attempting to do *something* this day phase. But maybe the simpler solution is just that scum don't want to touch this day phase with a ten foot pole.

So the activity is telling to you in terms of what's going on? I could possibly see that, but right now I think the only people who have truly engaged are me, you, PZ, and maybe Kazyan. Scum aren't usually prompted into activity, it's all based on aligned self-interest. You were mentioning in your small thoughtrant that you worry Gamma's activity would be telling, but I don't know if scum are just cornered. It doesn't feel that simple to me, rather I believe they're just waiting for their next best move. This is why I mentioned the game I was in (Innocent Things). I was scum there and I found myself having nothing to hide behind. Both me, FL and even nopoint were the most active posters on D1. The activity in that regard is telling to me that scum is not exactly directing the game, rather just finding comfortable ways to force content. We may have posted a lot but I don't feel like we necessarily controlled who was living or dying, rather our MO was mostly what I described.

This is the best I can come up with for you talking about me, and it’s buried within a wall of text
Can you extract your thoughts on me, and maybe give more elaboration while you’re at it?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma I odn't really feel like reiterating my points. Just talk to me at this level and see what comes of it

That will always matter more to me instead of trying to condemn someone with my words

Side-note: I do love condemning people with my words actually that's a lie

But I also would prefer not to condemn someone on misunderstanding so yeah

Well I’m trying to get you to actually explain your read without force-feeding you any lines

[Gamma Emerald]

Or at least the specific meta point
Anyway, you think I’m scum but you’re also fine being on Hayker with me. Who do you think the third is, and what’s the scum agenda iyo?

[Gamma Emerald]

You’ve given a vague meta read with little substance. I’m not gonna give you any ammo. It’s both seeing how solid your read is and not volunteering information I don’t have to

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm being reserved because I'm that way across p much all my games since I can't put in the exact effort I want to put in for all of them, so I'm pulling my punches in all of them. I'll put in a concerted effort to sort the entire game if I get a good chance, but I don't want to push myself into focusing on X game when I have others I feel might deserve my time more.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm being reserved because I'm that way across p much all my games since I can't put in the exact effort I want to put in for all of them, so I'm pulling my punches in all of them. I'll put in a concerted effort to sort the entire game if I get a good chance, but I don't want to push myself into focusing on X game when I have others I feel might deserve my time more.

You're currently in too many games? It's just temporary then? Why doesn't this game deserve your attention?

I'm being reserved because I'm that way across p much all my games since I can't put in the exact effort I want to put in for all of them, so I'm pulling my punches in all of them. I'll put in a concerted effort to sort the entire game if I get a good chance, but I don't want to push myself into focusing on X game when I have others I feel might deserve my time more.

Ah try not to join so many games then? I can slightly empathize but I can't do it for the sake of this thread.

This game is becoming a bit flat which leaves me slightly uneasy

it's less "too many games" and more "too little time"
but I'll try to do more now that I should be able to get more done in my available time

[Gamma Emerald]

why are people SRing PZ, his posting today has seemed quite good so either someone has to point out how it doesn't really add much or convince me to disregard that

[Gamma Emerald]

A general list of my reads I've compiled
Dann _Town _ Mod announcement
PZ _ Townlean/??? _ D2 info delay + providing info + reads that seem accurate, if a bit WIFOMy
unwnd/NPOM _ Townlean/??? _ Both provide info by provoking town into engagement, unwnd asking Kazyan to not necessarily rethink the Hayker vote but to be sure and examine the situation carefully.
Kazyan _ ???/Townlean _ consistant explanation of motivation + thought out read on GE & LM - vote on hayker and be done with day = townlean
Gamma _ ??? _ Again, I can't get enough here, the recent pop-in seems more a result of the prod and I wouldn't make it negative, looking forward to elaboration post.
Elements _ ???/Scumlean _ When he does post it doesn't feel like it contributes much, purposely tries to obscure voting intentions.
LM _ Scumlean/??? _ PZ points out correctly that he attacks random people for reasons I see as flimsy. Has attacked PZ,Gamma, HWS, NPOM/unwnd, as for 905 ELI5? making a huff about being discredited earlier only makes it stand out more to me.
HWS _ Scumlean/??? _ Leans on player meta to defend hayker. Crappy role fishing. General Non-Participation(not just activity, but also content).
Hayker _ ScumHeavylean _ I don't care about KH mafia, I feel it's pretty easy to change gameplay even minutely, this game is currently more important.

I’d need to probe farther into this but I’m concerned about how weak these reads are. Even the most confident reads are given as leans, and there are a LOT of question marks.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, this is the exact type of posting I do as scum. I understand you are strapped for time, but you need to be spending your precious time in thread stating your own reads, defending stances, pushing people. Right now, you're simply making vague stances and asking other people to fill in the gaps. That's not towny, that's scum trying to create the illusion of content.

Focus less on asking other people what their opinions are when you need to be looking at the thread and generating content yourself, at least if you're town and want to win the game.

Also I really really feel 2ndchosen1 is town but I also think he's one of the easier miselim targets in the game so be aware of that

This is what I’m doing to try and form reads right now, at least for the second post. I don’t want to start at square one just yet so right now I’m probing stuff that sticks out from recent posting in order to see how people respond, which will make my reads develop.
Since thread is gonna close soon I wanna state unwnd is a bit of a pocket SR because I don’t like how he presented the meta point against me and he is low key obvtown in his town games and I can’t see that here

[Gamma Emerald]

Dann do you remember who all has pushed PZ today?
I’m also gonna try to ferret out who Hayker’s partners are before thread lock

[Gamma Emerald]

Are you sure that you can't see that here merely because I've suggested your head?

Nah
I think it would still be apparent even then

[Gamma Emerald]

I think PZ is town based on Hayker’s posts, and no one is gonna change my mind

[Gamma Emerald]

Kazyan seems like town as well from how Hayker has engaged him

[Gamma Emerald]

I just feel like you mostly ignored everything I've said against you and tried to break my argument down as simply meta

When I've proved that isn't the case

When I’ve asked for non-meta reasons you’ve pointed me towards your posts “from a few pages ago”, which isn’t exactly helpful, and I couldn’t find anything there that really shows a detailed read on me. And your meta comment on me seems vague to a problematic degree. So that’s why I keep harping on it.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think he's entered with some really deep and hard to fake reads on Gamma, etc.

Can you point out where unwnd has expanded on his read of me?

[Gamma Emerald]

I still very much feel elements is scum, since Friday he has asked for support on two wagons, supported another, and then a silent vote on Alchemist. One of the votes is basicslly asking dann is he'd like to wagon with him. This seems to be an empty persuit for now.

Of the current wagons, i like penguins Iso a bit more every time I read the posts. My biggest sus, elements, has pushed the alchemist wagon several times heavily. I also think Kazyan played rather nervously when the pressure was on them, and I'd like to know why.

vote:kazyan

I think elements stands a decent chance of being a hayker buddy due to posts like this pushing elements but not really making much of the push (and specifically him opting to vote Kazyan in this post).

[Gamma Emerald]

You acknowledge my #965 which pretty much has no indication of meta.

I can't remember if I asked for your reads, but if you don't want to continually argue the same point over and over (because I expect you to keep going lolmeta) then let's start there

Unless you can define the specific game you’re pulling from for my scum meta and explain the similarities that’s not gonna be a thing I drop for good
But as for my reads I am kinda going through and forming reads rn based on Hayker’s ISO, and I’ve gotten 3 reads from that so far (I’m assuming Hayker flips scum here)

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not really convinced your scum, I stated it was a pocket SR because I half-expect to get vigged tonight and I wanted that out while I had the chance. If I get around to it and determine you feel like scum upon deeper scrutiny I’ll express that in kind.

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s a fine response.

[Gamma Emerald]

Your prerogative - as stated, that's not what I assume.

I rather foolishly may have invited both 2ndchosen1 and Kazyan to join this game. I assure you they are both simply rookies to forum mafia and have played mafia adjacent games. I really should have done it with a Newbie game is hindsight, but what is done is done.

Between my feeling about Kazyan and past experience with this kind of situation where player A knows player B and C from elsewhere, and player A rolled scum, I feel like 2ndchosen1 is probably town off of this?

[Gamma Emerald]

Would love to yeet within {

Hayker

/NPOM/LM} today.

No desire to yeet within {

PZ

/

GE

/

Alch

/Elements} today.

{

PP

/

Kazyan

/Swims/

Chosen

} don't feel like flips where they'd give enough information as currently constructed, but there is likely some scumbag in there.

I feel like if Elements+Hayker are both scum, the last one should be in that set of leading D1 yeet options from AGar. I don’t think AGar got NKed for a 1-1-1 split across these three pools. This isn’t a hard read, just a suggestion.

[Gamma Emerald]

Dannflor

Papa Zito
Kazyan
2ndchosen1

nsg
NPOM
Lunar

Elements

Conftown, townreads, PoE scum suspects, scumread

[Gamma Emerald]

Why is Kazyan so low

[Gamma Emerald]

Y’all two need to read Hayker’s ISO once the flip happens

[Gamma Emerald]

The way Hayker handles Kazyan does not look like scum-scum interaction at all

[Gamma Emerald]

Uhhhh you’re definitely not in the loop rn
Hayker self-hammered

[Gamma Emerald]

These two posts make me very confident Kazyan is town upon Hayker’s scumflip

I still very much feel elements is scum, since Friday he has asked for support on two wagons, supported another, and then a silent vote on Alchemist. One of the votes is basicslly asking dann is he'd like to wagon with him. This seems to be an empty persuit for now.

Of the current wagons, i like penguins Iso a bit more every time I read the posts. My biggest sus, elements, has pushed the alchemist wagon several times heavily. I also think Kazyan played rather nervously when the pressure was on them, and I'd like to know why.

vote:kazyan

The way Hayker talks about his elements scum read so much to subvert that with a Kazyan vote that’s only justified in the last line of the post tells me Hayker is doing the “push a buddy vote a townie” play, which makes Kazyan town

I mean, sure, but I still don't get why that makes me scum.

Hammer is in hand, but I'm gonna listen to another post or two from NPOM in case he talks us down.

Traditionally we wait for a role claim⁹⁸

This seems a weird thing to post for a buddy, especially since daytalk is unencrypted

[Gamma Emerald]

I also think PZ is obvtown because of how hard Hayker tried to push him
But I’m gonna let y’all read for that one since I already spelled one out and the PZ point should be super-obvious

[Gamma Emerald]

The way Hayker talks about his elements scum read so much to subvert that with a Kazyan vote that’s only justified in the last line of the post tells me Hayker is doing the “push a buddy vote a townie” play, which makes Kazyan town

so you're confident in elements being scum?

I think the different pieces of the puzzle form that conclusion (Hayker interactions, Elements being among those who sheeped the IC, elements feeling pretty absent rn)

[Gamma Emerald]

oh man this is annoying, i get no quality dann time (probably)

@datisi how much bribe money for you to "forget" to check the thread for a day or so

I'm here but I can't promise quality

what's your best hypothesis for why agar was the nightkill? i've just realized that i can't really square it

is it a setup thing? they wanted to keep the jailkeep ability for one night more?

AGar had a strong SR on Hayker
I don’t think that’s enough for scum to have killed him but that’s a strong reason

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma do you like busing as scum? This might sound like a stupid question, but entertain it anyways

I try to be strategic about it, but yes.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think I’m going to have much need for contingencies on a Hayker town flip but I’d probably re-home in on those I thought were clear when I presumed Hayker was gonna flip scum

[Gamma Emerald]

unwnd (Mafia Multitasking Jailkeeper) and 2ndchosen1 (Mafia Bulletproof Enabler) survive and win.

hey fuckers
I WAS RIGHT ABOUT UNWND
AND YALL ARE STUPID FOR YEETING KAZYAN