Open 805 Panic Room Day 1

[Dumb and Dumber]

Sure, hit me with both!

-El Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Something along the lines of: if someone already makes up their mind, I don't want to spend time trying to fight them off, but if they'd like me to address concerns or suspicions I'd be glad to talk about it.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Hey, Salsabil is missing some context.

@Salsabil, Skitter30 (the other head of this hydra, Dumber) is a highly reputed player and scary slot to roll scum against.
She also has had a high read rate (100% I think) on Lilith's alignment games they've played together previously.

What Lilith is arguing is that for scum!Lilith, taking such continuous aggressive stances as scum against a slot that has proved to read her well is a silly, suicidal move.

Leave that aside - even if she did that anyway as a crazy method to get townread, and now that both heads of my slot declare townreads on her... pushing on us in this position is *even sillier* for scum!Lilith to make. I presume she'd rather just stay mum and focus elsewhere, kill us off N1, and coast off our read on her if she was scum.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Sure. Skitter reading Lilith correctly across all their previous games should be factual and verifiable though, would proof of that make it easier to believe?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Daenerys, can you give me a quick tl;dr of where you're at on Green Crayons / re-quote for me?

-The Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Which thoughts in specific?

Weren't you angling for my lim for the most part in Doubles Mafia?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

heya i'm actually around for a bit, and i'm gonna read up now

lilith if ur around and wanna talk, that would be cool

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

ok i promised to circle back to these @lilith:

Spoiler:

wtf?

this is literally out of left field for me.

I'm sorry you feel like I ignored you, that's not my intention. I literally don't know how to read you, and idk, "is there anything you want to talk about" doesn't really feel like a reach-out to me in the way that you're saying it was. you should be townreading me here, period, and I feel like it's a bit weird that you act as if you still need to sort me and that was the purpose of you asking me that, because what it felt like it should have been in the moment was trying to help me to read you, not the other way around. I feel much less unconfident in my ability to read auro than in my ability to read you, but my scumread on him was likely based off emotion initially. I've basically backed off that read completely after he said he thought I was upset with him and that our back and forth seemed to have been a misunderstanding. now you are rapidly veering back into my scumreads.

a few things:

- i used ignored in a 'eh you probably saw my post but didn't respond to it' sense, and not in a 'i feel personally agrieved that you did not respond to my post' sense, to clarify, you didn't like upset me or hurt my feelings or whatever
- a lot of our read on you was dependant on how you were reading and approachign us - we talked a lot about how scum-you may choose to interact with our slot (namely, trying to focus on interacting with auro over me, since scum-you probably doesn't want to engage me super much), and it looked to us like there were several examples througout the day of you doing just that. so i was trying to gauge if you would take the oppurtunity to try to engage with me, but you didn't respond to that. that's the bit that seemed a bit suspicious to me, like you were trying to avoid the head that would have an easier time reading you. so like trying to get you to engage with me would help me sort you too.
- i don't think i was townreadig you that strongly prior to like this post and everything that came before it, but it seems like you're under the impression taht i was, and that i lost the townread upon you not responding to my post. that's not quite the case; i don't think i was townreading you prior, you not responding didn't change anything per se. it was more like 'oh i'm still not super solid on my lilith read so i want to to try to talk to her some more' and then afterwards i incidentally mention i wasn't townreading you. whereas ithink you think that you not responding to my overture is what prompted the scumread, when in my mind at least, these things werent particularly related.

this immediately prior point is getting tot he following post, wherein i think you misunderstand what my read on you actually is:

I don't really know why skitter is saying I feel different or what is different about me, but it is extremely worrisome that she is now downgrading her prior townread on me. like it kind of feels like it's supposed to be penalizing me for not falling in line and townreading her slot like everyone else seems to be, so that I'll just give in and call her and auro town. and I felt like her original townread on me was meant to be placating to get me to back off auro more than it was an actual read. also initially I felt like auro was deliberately not engaging with me in order to prevent me from getting a good handle on his play, then he seemed to have a satisfactory explanation for thinking that I was still upset, but now I'm feeling like maybe it was deliberate after all.

- Daenerys

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

I feel like this whole skitter thing is trying to make it seem like I ignored her and then attacked you, but I didn’t even talk about or to you for like 10 hours of being in the thread - I was interacting with infinity and gamma, and your slot was nowhere near top of mind for me. I made myself drop it because I admitted that my interactions with you were based on a misunderstanding, and then moved on to other things.

i think you're reading too much into the 'ignoring' thing, and that you're ascribing meaning to it that i did not

i also think my above post largely addresses 1165, but let me know if i missed anything

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

not only that, but in order to scumread me you have to believe that after skitter and auro backed off me, that I am willingly, repeatedly, poking and prodding and antagonizing them instead of just letting them townread me. how on earth do you think this is a strategy that scum!me takes with respect to a town!dumb and dumber. how????

either you're blind or you're scum.

- Daenerys

right, this + the conviction you have on this point is what ultimately changed my mind

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Skitter's own sig says going up against her is a death sentence

technically it says that town going against *scum* me is a death sentence

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Honestly the fact that it took you so long to get there is making me paranoid. And the way the interaction started up and stopped and started up again makes me feel like it's not TvT, but I'm not sure. SvT interactions tend to progress weirdly like that sometimes

this is fair
i think the start-stop has more to do with irl things (and trying to play a zen game from both heads) than anythign else tho

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

however, as mena once said, skitter is a bad D1 elim. I’m not really interested in pursuing their elimination today, but I’m very much not convinced that they’re town. when I get back I’ll try to be more involved in sorting other slots for today’s elim.

What is 'mena'?

he's another player who i often play with

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Hey I'm around but I'm feeling like shit because I got some bad news (nothing serious just really frustrating) so yeah. I still need to read the last few pages.

-Dragons

hope you're ok <3

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Not_Mafia

{2}

- Infinity 324, Gamma Emerald

MURDERCAT

{3}

- PenguinPower, Green Crayons, Dumb and Dumber

Gamma Emerald

{3}

- catboi, Daenerys and Dragons, Not_Mafia

PenguinPower

{1}

- MURDERCAT

Not voting

{2}

- Salsabil Faria, YyottaCat

Votes needed to Eliminate:

{6}

. Deadline for Day 1 is Saturday, February 13 at 2 PM EDT, or in (expired on 2021-02-13 16:00:00).

MOD NOTES:
Please reach out if you notice any mistakes in my count.

i think i have a decently strong poe, and i'm kinda happy to wagon anybody outside of it
we have less than two days left and i like the mc vote so i'm p good there

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

it's really your posting from ~the last 2 irl days, and i said that i was townreading you like yesterday, so i'm not sure what timeline you're referring to?
(i'm happy to elaborate but i'm not sure exactly what you're asking)

who do you want to flip???? we need to start deciding

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

maybe i'm wrong but i legimately don't remember townreading lilith anytime recently. maybe in like super early game but i don't remember townreading her around the her/auro thing or anytime after that; i'm p sure i scumread that whole interaction on her end until like yesterday

and lilith r.e. 1346
- i'm not sure that the read was like 'dependant' on how you approach me in general, but in a hydra in particular, me and auro felt that scum-you would go out of your way to avoid interacting with me cuz it would be easier for you to interact with auro. usually i'm not in a hydra so i don't think comparing this game to others is a strictly apples-apples comparison here. if i wasn't in a hydra i don't think that thoguht would have crossed my mind
- and ig i just said the second point. i'll look again but i'm p sure i havn't said that but maybe i'm like misremembering badly because i don't remember townreading you post-early game so i just don't know and don't have an answer without going back and checking, so let me do that

[Dumb and Dumber]

tbf i kinda agree with u on cakez

but lilith is townie for her! (i think!)
(or at least her activity last night was)

so for now i feel good on the slot

i like gc votes!

fwiw i think if he's scum he's probably (?) not the bomb

shadowslug i think ur being really townie too

~ skitter

i'm p sure this was roughly around the last time i remember townreading her
lilith, you felt v weird in your thing with auro and that's where it kinda disippated, and i didn't get it back until like skimming yesterday/today upon seeing how much conviction you had with gamma, about how you approach me, how much emotion is bleeding into your posts, etc

i don't think i said i townread you in between really. and like i don't really remember this happening so maybe you guys can quote where you think i said that?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

here is the second time you said you townread me, which is what I'm referring to (and this is after me vs. auro):

Lilith <3
I hope ur ok

(On a game note i probably disagree with auro and am leaning town on you)

~ skitter

honestly i dont' remember. i don't know and don't really ahve an answer, i'm sorry

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

not only that, but in order to scumread me you have to believe that after skitter and auro backed off me, that I am willingly, repeatedly, poking and prodding and antagonizing them instead of just letting them townread me. how on earth do you think this is a strategy that scum!me takes with respect to a town!dumb and dumber. how????

either you're blind or you're scum.

- Daenerys

right, this + the conviction you have on this point is what ultimately changed my mind

~ skitter

if you don't think you said you townread me, then how can you agree with me that I was antagonizing you after you said you townread me?

- Daenerys

it was more of a generic 'i don't think you would be antagnozing us in general' vs 'i don't think you would be antaganozing us specifically after i townread you'
( i skimmed a lot in the past couple of days and kinda like got the gist but didn't necessasrily catch every word)

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

i feel like i addressed point 1)
i don't super follow what you're trying to say with 2) but i'll try:

at post 1131 i was reiterating that i wasn't townreading you and that i thought the way you were approaching us was scummy
i later changed my mind upon seeing your interaction with gamma; that was kinda the key thing that changed my mind

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

? it's stated in the original post you responded to

i know, i read very fast sometimes (esp. when skimming) and sometimes skip words (and sometimes important words)

[Dumb and Dumber]

again, I was already antagonizing you plenty before you said you didn't townread me, so what changed between then and now?

it felt like you were trying to draw out the auro thing a bit when he was trying to disengage, adn that you were calling him scummy for trying to disengage, and that you didn't want to engage with my head

then the emotion in the gamma stuff outweighed that

[Dumb and Dumber]

basically a lot of how we were reading you was around how you were engaging with us

we thought you'd try to avoid me and try to pick fights with auro as scum
but you're now picking a fight with me (which you werent' doing before, that's part of the difference), and loudly and actively not-townreading me. and i dont' think you take that route as scum.

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

no it's kind alike both

[Dumb and Dumber]

again, I was already antagonizing you plenty before you said you didn't townread me, so what changed between then and now?

this was antagonizing *us*, not me. you're now antagonizing me. that's a large part of the difference

[Dumb and Dumber]

uh... yes, this is all true. is there a reason my explanations for why these things happened weren't satisfactory?

cuz it looked like how you would approach us as scum
the fact that you *could* approach that way as town didn't negate the fact that it was also fairly likely to come from scum - you in this context

[Dumb and Dumber]

Can you link me a game where scum!lilith showed this level of proactiveness or emotion

i can't, no (i.e. i don't ahve an example)
but she's not quite feeling like town-lilith to me yet either and i'm currently trying to figure out what i make of that

~ skitter

can you explain this post?

- Daenerys

i hadn't felt like you'd broken out of the ceiling of your emotional scumrange at that point yet; that didn't happen until gamma + you now scumreading me

and i don't think that town-you is scared of engaging with me
i think that scum-you is a little bit and would actively avoid doing so if possible (sorry), and taht's what your game looked like until recently

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

and I'd also like to bring up that you've been able to read me perfectly fine in the past with minimal engagement, and here I spent several days interacting with other people where you should have been able to observe my play. why does the possibility that this is how scum!me approaches your slot outweigh the rest of my play in this game?

- Daenerys

honestly i think the expediency of the read taht game was kinda a fluke. i think i can read you accurately with enough posts, but not off of like 3 posts on a regular basis.
a lot of it is trying to gauge your activity and engagement and how much energy you have and where you're spending it. most of what you were posting felt kinda flat, and somewhat through-the-motions-y to a certain extent. the auro/you thing also very much through me off

you kinda broke through what i imagine the ceiling of your scumrange to be, so now i townread you

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

I don't disagree, I think everyone who knows me/you is on the same page about how I would deal with rolling scum (avoid as much as possible, kill as fast as possible)

what gave you the impression that I was scared of engaging with you?

what do you mean by "emotional scumrange"?

- Daenerys

sorry i'm not sure what you're asking by 'what gave you the impresion that i was scared of engaging with you' - we both agree that scum-you avoids town-me, right? i'm not really sure what sort of elaboration you're looking for here.

also for the 'emotional scumrange' bit: we've talked abt this - you're very flat as scum, you go through the motions, you ask incidental questions with no followthrough. there isn't really any emotional connection to the game really. you aren't invested, you aren't convicted, and you just don't *care* as much. you're done all three of the latter now, so i townread you. your early game kinda looked like the former, so i didn't then.

[Dumb and Dumber]

a lot of it is trying to gauge your activity and engagement and how much energy you have and where you're spending it. most of what you were posting felt kinda flat, and somewhat through-the-motions-y to a certain extent. the auro/you thing also very much through me off

would also like some more explanation on this

- Daenerys

what part?

[Dumb and Dumber]

Spoiler:

I'm still not finding many strong reads here.
I want to say Lilith and I were very excited to roll town this game and we don't want to deal with the bs we always get, and this arguing is getting lilith pissed off already
So if other D&D hydra could do something else unless something relevant has changed I'd appreciate it

-dragons

sorry I was not able to spend as much time as I wanted on this today.

@penguin are you currently townreading dumb&dumber? when/why did you start townreading skitter? is the read based on something other than how skitter is reading you?

@skitter similar question. when/why did you start townreading penguin? what changed from the early game that made you switch your read?

- Daenerys

Do you mind looking in his ISO and pointing to where that started?

On an unrelated note, I didn’t really like gamma’s reaction to me vs auro, repeatedly saying it was pointless and then not bothering to try to redirect or offer any game-related content. I don’t have much, if any, experience playing with him but I feel like he doesn’t really feel interested in solving.

- Daenerys

Re: murdercat pushing penguin, I think town!penguin is a deceivingly easy-looking push for scum to make. I’m not sold on town!penguin but I think it’s worth looking into who the top wagon was when murder tried to wagon penguin to see whether it could have been scum!murder trying to divert wagon away from a scumbuddy. Need to sleep so I’ll do that tomorrow after work hopefully.

@skitter what implications do you think the stalled gamestate has?

- Daenerys

MURDERCAT himself was the leading wagon.

oh lol. definitely some motivation there to try to create a different wagon then

They seem decent enough to me, leaning toward town.

can you explain why?

Penguin. It feels like the active lurking and filler posting is basically a playstyle thing for him and he hasn't really scumtold or towntold, he's just there. He could be scum but I don't think the stuff murdercat is pointing at says a lot either way and I have my own issues with murder's posting.

what issues do you have with murder?

- Daenerys

posts like these ^

and idk i feel like town-you usually engages with me? and the fact that you didn't was strange and notable? like i think by default you'd engage with me in some way?

and infinity the auro/lilith thing i was discounting because it was ate-y and largely driven by irl things, it seemed, didn't really seem like her alignemnt had much to do with it. like it was nai and she was having a bad day. coudlnt' read into that really

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

at the time it felt scummy to me. i made a conscious effort to bump it up to nai recognizing that it was for irl reasons

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

what about these posts said "scum-indicative" to you?

they felt to me like examples of you interacting with the game via incidental questions that felt kinda meh and like like you were forcing yourself to engage (this is basically my model of prototypical scum-lilith, and what you were doing in c9++)

but.. I did engage with you, I asked you and penguin about your reads on each other, which you've quoted in the posts you listed as scummy

you're kinda conflating different things i was saying about differnet parts of the game - at that point i felt like you were doing the vague incidental questions bit, at other points i felt like you were trying to interact with auro more than me, which was highlighted when you didn't respond to my posts trying to engage with you

so when I do something towny, it can be explained away by my oog state but when I do something "scummy," it can't...?

wut? i literally just said that it seemed scummy to me but i was actiavely not reading into it was probably for irl reasons. i feel like that whole episode should be considered nai.
i'm not sure how you came to this conclusion/accusation when i literally just said the exact opposite

what was scummy about my reaction?

we both felt like you were looking for reasons to scumread auro, and weren't trying to engage with him to sort him
and that you way overreacted and made a mountain out of a molehill

(auro really disliked that interaction and has actively been trying to avoid another such one, and i think that's where a lot of the 'weird auro' vibes are coming from)

gain, you clearly said you were leaning town on me after me vs. auro, so you're going to have to explain how this post lines up with you now saying you were scumreading me for it the whole time.

again, i legitimately don't remember what i was thinking at the time, so i can't. like i just don't know. i'm not trying to avoid the question, but i don't have an answer

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

i mean i also feel like this is going around in circles and isn't really going anywhere, but i felt like it was important to try to answer at least

i also feel like it's a little bit unfair to say, however, that you knew that this is how it was going to go and that's why you chose not to engage. i don't think this is the default way we usually engage really

to me this detail was possibly the most important part in trying to form a read on you. i recognize that you have a lot of other content, but that's the lens i was viewing the game through.

at this point i townread you so i'm not sure how much more we're gonna get out of this but :shrug:

like i'm trying to give you what you're looking for to ahve a read on me

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

I don’t really feel like you have a leg to stand on in saying me ignoring you seemed scum-indicative. asking me “is there anything you want to talk about” and my not having a response is like.... it’s not like you were actively asking me questions about the game and about my reads and I was avoiding responding. I’d said multiple times that I just didn’t have anything that I wanted to ask you about, but that doesn’t mean that I was scummily avoiding you. I just... didn’t have anything that I wanted to ask you about. And you seemed to not be taking my words at face value, as if I must have an ulterior motive.

lilith
that's literally exactly how scum-you goes abt it tho. i can't just ignore the fact that you're interacting with my slot the way scum-you does like 95/100 times just because town-you might also.

you're also reducing several instances of you interacting with auro over me to 'well i just didn't respond that one time'; it was a pattern that had happened several times over several irl days, it wasn't jsut that one instance.

if this isn't gonna help u get a read on me, that's fine. we don't have to continue talking abt it

[Dumb and Dumber]

When I played with scum!skitt in silent star 3, I had the same experience of her having good arguments, but there was a strong gut feeling she was scum there. I don't get the same feeling here, but she wasn't as engaged/motivated because she didn't enjoy the setup so I'm not sure what to think. Maybe a more motivated scum!skitt could watch how her posts come off better?

tbf i'm also not feeling super engaged rn either

[Dumb and Dumber]

lilith - i see your post but i'm kinda running out of energy again, i'm sorry :/
i will also say that i agree with gamma that this probably isn't really super helpful tbh. i don't think either slot is getting flipped in the next 36 hours so maybe let's just put a pin in it and circle back if required tomorrow
if responding to that post is very important i'll do my best to do so before eod but otherwise let's maybe drop it for a bit

gc - MURDERKITTY, gamma
you/yyotta are my lower-tier townreads but i don't wnat to go there today

[Dumb and Dumber]

i think i have a decently strong poe, and i'm kinda happy to wagon anybody outside of it

what's your poe?

yeah to clarify i may have written this a bit confusingly - i mean to say that i have a very strong townpool, and that i'm willing to vote anybody i don't tr

so like rn i think i'd only vote MURDERKITTY or gamma, and i prefer the former

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

I agree that this conversation was unproductive and that’s why I didn’t really want to bother in the first place. would like skitter and auro to respond to 1393 at some point.

beyond that I really don’t have much else on my to do list.

- Daenerys

i will endeavor to do so

SkitteR...

Top town reads pls - just like your top 3-4 would be good.

you
salsa
lilith's slot

~
infinity
gc
yyotta
catboi

~
MURDERKITTY
gamma

tiers look roughly like this ^.
don't really want to flip nm either

[Dumb and Dumber]

Everyone doubts D&D&D&D interactions of being TvS, but no one suspects it could be SvS

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm being lazy

Mood

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Hi mena!!!!

VOTE: mena

Unfortunately we think ur slot has super high scum equity

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

@infinity
My half-baked theory is that gamma is the bomb

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Well if the choices are bomb-gamma or goon-mc gamma is ultimately going to fold and vote mc, right?

He was obviously p reluctant to get on mc at all

Also @mena i have a p strong townpool and gamma never was townie, so he was p firmly outside of it. And i dislike his interactions with mc/mc's wagon, in that he tried to avoid it for a p long time

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Sup Mena!

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Idk my inclination is that scum hardbussed for cred to get into panic room, but that’s purely based on VCs and knowing my own alignment

Echoing lilith - did anyone in particular strike you as being in that position?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

@skitter and auro I’m really really sorry about D1. I think I got myself stuck in kill mode and couldn’t get myself out. And that’s probably the best way to describe why I felt so off. I think you guys are probably just town though.

Issok, I do that so many times >.> another benefit to the whole zen thing for me personally

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I want to look at the people who were shading murder but voting gamma instead, I'm thinking maybe scum felt that gamma would be harder to push as a miselim once murder flipped scum.

And where does that lead you? I'd rather we talked about that first, rather than about Gamma.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Idk I need to reread

I look forward to your conclusions/case(s) after re-reading. Sooner, the better

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

PEdit: I don't see why scum!gamma was defending murder while his partner was bussing. I don't get what he was trying to achieve.

In my experience, Gamma isn't exactly a very co-operative scum player.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

not sure if we should be trying to discuss the nk - @d&d do you guys think this is a useful discussion to have?

Nope, we should avoid it.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

@skitter and auro I’m really really sorry about D1. I think I got myself stuck in kill mode and couldn’t get myself out. And that’s probably the best way to describe why I felt so off. I think you guys are probably just town though.

I’m not particularly townreading gamma’s slot but I think gc trying to make a gamma wagon possible at eod was kinda suspicious.

- Daenerys

<3
why do you think we're town now tho?

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

Also @mena i have a p strong townpool and gamma never was townie, so he was p firmly outside of it. And i dislike his interactions with mc/mc's wagon, in that he tried to avoid it for a p long time

Okay, well I can’t answer for gamma and I haven’t read yet but I will

Like I don’t ur logic but I would like to hear more on who is particularly towny and why

Although I’d actually prob rather hear after I read up to see if we sync or not

you
salsa
lilith's slot

~
infinity
gc
yyotta
catboi

~
MURDERKITTY
gamma

tiers look roughly like this ^.
don't really want to flip nm either

this is from my eod yestserday
salsa - strongest townread; the iso-reads she's done on a few slots now are ridiculously +++town, she has an element of guileness that i really like, she just screams newbtown

lilith's slot - the emotion in bickering with gamma + how she picked a fight with me eod yesterday, probably town, probably otu of her scumrange (i'm a bit less confident than i was yesterday, i will say)

~
infinity - with the murder scum flip and infinity's defense of him i want to put him in the bottom category tbh. i don't remember why i was townreading him anymore

gc - liked his stubborness on his shadow read (not the initial read, but rather how he persisted and explained it when i kept pushing back). not as strong a townread as the above but town enough for now

yyotta - also getting newbtown vibes. weaker read than the other townreads

catboi - i really liked shadowslug, and htought he was very, very townie. i don't have much thought on catboi's iteration of the slot tbh

~

gamma - literally never got townvibes from him, hated his half of the lilith/gamma thing

murderkitty - flipped scum! i'm happy i caught that one

~

nm - nm

that's kinda where i'm at. want to focus on lesser townreads / people i don't townread today

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

Idk my inclination is that scum hardbussed for cred to get into panic room, but that’s purely based on VCs and knowing my own alignment

ok but that would have to be, like, us tho

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

lilith why are you voting gc?

infinity's positioning rn kinda looks like partners with gamma and mc but i'm not sure, if he's partners with gamma and mc, that he actually posititions himself this way, if that makes sense

my vibes from eod gamestate is that gamma's slot + MURDERKITTY were both scum tbh.

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

ty lilith!

makes sense that you want to give gamma('s slot) some space in that context

would you be able to provide a couple of posts demonstrating where you think gc was supporting MURDERKITTY earlier in the day and where you think he awkwardly avoided it? i'm not sure i quite remember either of those things happening but i was kinda out of it for the last few irl days of yesterday so very possible i missed things

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

under that theory, i would have helped build the momentum on my scum teammate and then abandoned right at the fork-in-the-road between MC and Gamma, which is pretty bad play imo

well it would have been good play if we flipped town-gamma yesterday instead, i think is what she's saying

i do think that 'supporting the MC elim even when voting gamma' is actually +MC-parter, rather than underming you being a potential partner tho, especially since you're pulling this out as a reason to read the two of you as not-partners

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

I still think the switch to gamma at the end of the day was kinda weird though (and like, my first reaction to those posts were "egh these words are awkward" and not "oh yay someone joining me on wagon")

sorry these were the ones i was looking for, to clarify ^

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

i do think that 'supporting the MC elim even when voting gamma' is actually +MC-parter, rather than underming you being a potential partner tho, especially since you're pulling this out as a reason to read the two of you as not-partners

This doesn’t make sense to me but also I don’t particularly care. There’s a small pool of potential MC buds, I acknowledge I’m potentially one of them, and towns gotta make it through the list.

basically scum want to look like they're supporting the scum-wagon (saying they support it) without *actually* supporting the scum wagon (actually voting)

it's a p classic partner-play, esp by later referencing it - they want to look like they supported it and get teh cred for it without actually doing so

but the second half of this post is kinda despite that imo

why do u think catboi is townie?

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

oh thanks lilith, ya i see what u mean there tbh

thanks gc for ur responses too

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

well firstly from my pov i know that's impossible

also we started teh mc wagon like way back during mid-day1, and we were pushing it consistently throuhgout

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

that's a yes? my slot p clearly doesn't look aligned with MURDERKITTY

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

{Infinity 324, Salsabil Faria}
{Gamma Emerald, shadowslug, Green Crayons, Daenerys and Dragons}
{Not_Mafia, PenguinPower, Dumb and Dumber}
{YyottaCat}

I think I'm here.

Infinity isn't doing the "are you scum??" thing he does to me when he is scum.
Salsabil: town slip and generally has no agenda while not doing nothing, if that makes sense

Gamma seems to just be chilling and doesn't seem to be trying to push anything in particular.
Shadow/gc I think might be TvT, but I admit that is in part because of how other people have voted in relation to the 1v1.
Lilith's emotion about dumbass seems real to me, in a TAI way.

NM: ?
PP: Don't really love some of the stuff in his early game or how he has interacted with me.
Dumb and Dumber: Paranoia about trying to get town read, not interested in an elim here

YyottaCat: We need more pressure here.

i started pushing him slightly prior to here for active lurking. after a bit of pressure from me and a few other pepple (iirc the timeline correctly), he produced this readslist

i voted him off of this (continue reading slightly down the page) and that was the impetus of the wagon, and then never really left it

there was no reason for me to start this wagon here as his partner. it's not like someone else started it and i hopped on as it happened. like i was one of the main reasons it happened in the first place ...

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

mena the eod wagons on both slots were very sluggish, and the gamma wagon came into being well, well, well after i started pushing MURDERKITTY

like i understand the logic the timeline doesn't add up (like you're using the fact that the eod cw was on yoru slot, so he must have been bussed, but i was voting him weeeeeellllllll before your wagon ever became a thing, so the timeline is backwards)

and i'm not trying to take cred for the scumflip per se, but you asked for an interaction taht makes me townie that p clearly is it ... like i don't think it's accurate to say that i'm 'very keen to take credit' for the wagon when i'm answering your question that prompted such a response

i also don't entirely get what the motivation would be for lolhardbussing MURDERKITTY there

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

i think the simplest explanation for how eod1 happened is that both MURDERKITTY and gamma are scum. if gamma is town there's at least one scum in {other dnd, gc, and yyotta iirc}

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

i think the simplest explanation for how eod1 happened is that both MURDERKITTY and gamma are scum. if gamma is town there's at least one scum in {other dnd, gc, and yyotta iirc}

~ skitteR

inclined to agree except I think gamma town -> scum!gc fairly definitively. and obviously I’m town

- Daenerys

ig i just haven't thought super much abt which of the 3 it would be ... kinda want to start with pushing mena tbh

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

and mena ig i'm just not sure it would be worth it to lead a hardbus vs just, like, not there

pedit uh idk? i hope not. it's really a poe-based read coupled with gamestate and you happen to be in the hotseat

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

like i can unvote in good faith to let u get acclimated but your slot is my best bet rn

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

considering saying that if we just settle it as me being the guaranteed lim today would u spend the rest of the day trying to sort in my wagon from yesterday w/ me

i mean we can do this too, there's still a third scum out there and i have no idea who it is (and tbh there's a better than decent chance it's in those three names)

like i don't think i'm tunneled but i do think i have reasonably strong reasons to think ur scum (largely independent of u or anything you've said)

@ green crayon: sorry eod = End Of Day; similarly sod = Start Of Day (but eod is a significantly more common acronym)

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

i like it when everyone is chill

[Dumb and Dumber]

You don’t think 2/3 on me yesterday?

In that case either late bus or if they saw it coming early bus on murderkitty

And as for the latter... meh? Like I can’t speak for gamma and either I can get u to see I’m town during the course of the day or we just lim me and u take the info and play from there

Like it lowkey sounds like it will come down to a paranoia thing in which case ehhh I get it but will be annoyed ~somewhat~ if this becomes a tryhardy game for me and I get limmed bc of unsettling stuff from gamma

well MURDERKITTY was off
so both non-flipped scum need to be on you out of three players and you'd need to be town for that to happen and i just don't think that's super likely
the eod felt almost too 'limp' for the gamma cw to be driven by two scum on in - there just wasn't really momentum there, and why wasn't MURDERKITTY voting his own cw?

and i don't think it's a paranoia thing. like it's not abt you. it's about gamma and how day1 played out

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

skitter are you townreading infinity/why is he not in that pool

- Daenerys

ehhhhh not as much anymore as i was yesterday, his positioning is not great too

i was listing the people on teh gamma wagon (i htink there's at least one scum there) but we can add him to the suspect pool too

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

mena are you assuming i was inducted in the panic room?
and given that from your pov you're town i'm not hardbussing the bomb ...

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

.... you think the third scum was bussing a bomb!gamma in order to stay off the murder wagon?

- Daenerys

oh hmmm you're right. then like two scum on MC? gamma + scomeone else?
i didn't actually think through all the implicatiosn ig yet lol

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

I have turned over a new leaf since black flag and am now the chilliest boi

Join the club!

lol if mena = scum, and is just miffed he has a better strat than maybe OG scumgroup did, so he's like "here's what they should've done"

Yes - I was expecting scum to do that ever since the game started, too.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Menalque, I'm somewhat interested in your lack of a townread on Lilith.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Oh nevermind, I thought you were referring to the other D&D

Yeah, I expected scum to pull the early hardbus strategy.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Yeah, I expected scum to pull the early hardbus strategy.

And I’m assuming u agree with skitt that this didn’t happen or are u both discussing it?

This gave me some doubt over the Gamma scumread, but then I figured Gamma probably wouldn't adopt this strategy.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I disagree actually, I think Gamma!slot is looking better after that flip.

Really?

Because it really looked like scummerald awkwardly trying to defend a lim on his buddy.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

well this is exciting

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm in a similar place as lilith, basically waiting for more from infinity + mena

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

mena tbf is also in europe (but might not be posting because of the job etc)

but this kinda feels like scum just gave up ngl

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

mena tbf is also in europe (but might not be posting because of the job etc)

but this kinda feels like scum just gave up ngl

~ skitteR

Actually, skitter, what was townpinging you about murder early d1?

he had a couple of posts fairly early on that demonstrated Nuanced Thinking (tm) but it was always a read with an asterisk that i wasn't super solid on, and then he disappeared and so on and so forth

can u remind me of ur stance on gamma/mena please?

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

why do you townread the slot?

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

i feel like if he was trying to save murder that's exactly when he would have voted gamma?
(assumign town-gamma)

if scum-gamma than gc is probably town i would say

[Dumb and Dumber]

infinity i'm a little bit concerned that you're scum with mena and pushing a flip-bait-y townie under a lot of suspicion that you think you might be able to get a wagon on

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

@mod can we get a vc please?

infinity i really do not feel town-you here :/
i don't really like your read on mena/gamma or on yyotta, and i don't like the flippancy r.e. potentially misflipping yyotta

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

ah i see
i read that abt yyotta ....
i'm not sure how much i like that response in that context better tho

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

i think flipping mena -> infinity -> yyotta flips at least one if not both scum

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

i think flipping mena -> infinity -> yyotta flips at least one if not both scum

~ skitteR

Just adding that I echo this as well - waiting for Mena to come back (congrats btw? )

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: mena I'm done with this, we need to advance the game. I'm confident this is a town win, we have enough obvtown players

I'm sorry, my friend, but this looks incredibly fake :/

VOTE: Infinity420

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Everything I'm saying about gamma not trying to look town and drawing attention to himself is 10x more true if people are saying he's the bomb

Bussing is like, a tactic that is available

Isnt it just possible that scum-gamma saw mc getting wagoned and didnt know how to position himself?

Like it may not have been purposeful, but rather that he didnt know ehat to say to divert the wagon but ended up digging himself into a deeper hole

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

Oh lilith said the same thing

[Dumb and Dumber]

Bussing is like, a tactic that is available

I think this setup favors hard defending over bussing. Trying to keep goons alive long enough to get into the panic room is still important. Losing a goon means the other goon has to town it up really hard. In my opinion, bussing only really makes sense if you have someone well-placed to deepwolf (which I think most of us have agreed would be dumb&dumber given they led the MC wagon, but I don’t see much point in entertaining that possibility today).

Tbf if i were scum doing that that would be exactly the sort of reaction i'd be trying to evoke

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: mena I'm done with this, we need to advance the game. I'm confident this is a town win, we have enough obvtown players

I'm sorry, my friend, but this looks incredibly fake :/

VOTE: Infinity420

-Dumbass

what happened to bomb-gamma theory?

- Daenerys

It didnt really go anywhere, but auro decided to vote infinity and i sr him enuf to not object

And i meant that if i'm scum with mc and my goal is to bus him and ride off the cred, i'd (hopefully) do it in such a way that i dont look aligned with him, so if you're paranoid of that reality u probably shoulsnt be shelving it just cuz you townread me cuz that would have been the point of doing the hardbus in the first place

Have a great weekend everyone

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Lol ok

I'm p sure its just mena sooooo

VOTE: mena

Also i think infinity was trying to cast doubt on whoever was inducted into the panic room first (i'm p sure i know who that is, aside)

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Why do u think salsa died?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Do u want to try to form reads or do u want us to just flip u?

[Dumb and Dumber]

UNVOTE:

[Dumb and Dumber]

I feel like we can give people the courtesy of having the chance to post whatever they want/need to, but i think mena is p much always the flip today
(Sorry <3)

[Dumb and Dumber]

I think scum thought salsa was an inductee

[Dumb and Dumber]

Fwiw my top suspect is catboi lol

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

UNVOTE:

Kind of want to memeflashwagon

I thought he was at E-1 but effectively scumclaimed so we could just move down the line to menalque anyway

loool I somehow missed the entire end of page 70, whoops

These seem pretty weird for when he thought Infinity420 was at E-1

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

My thinking is that if my wagon is pure then hardbussing becomes more likely, and so if DnD is still alive by that point their scum equity goes ++

i'm still having some issues with your thought process from daystart yesterday, where you said we were bussing mc day1 to get cred to bus the bomb day2 .... when i was pushing *you*

so like from your pov i was clearly and obviously not pushing the bomb but you were positing that that's what i had to have been doing?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

not feeling great about both auro and skitter’s recent thought processes

hmmmm?

[Dumb and Dumber]

ok but that was also like two irl weeks and 1400 posts ago and things have changed in the interim?

[Dumb and Dumber]

yeah so I’m asking what changed about catboi that he’s no longer one of your slot’s strongest townreads?

this is only tangentially related to the thought processes thought

- Daenerys

i mean he's still one of my stronger (not strong*est*) townreads, you're gonna have to get auro to explain that

what else don't you like abt my recent thought processes?

and yeah it's a day neighborizer, you get added immediately

[Dumb and Dumber]

I feel like I already explained this? which is that if u were not inducted yet into the hood then u couldn't safely start hard bussing the bomb at start of day, and therefore I was a safe option?

bc either u would get a free elim OR you could always pivot to a bomb!bus once the day had progressed and once u were in the hood. but u wouldn't wanna get locked into bussing the bomb from the start of day and then have to pivot off weirdly halfway through if you still weren't hooded by then

i mean are you talking abt the universe where i'm the day2 inductee?

[Dumb and Dumber]

i had actually asked notsci cuz i was confused and he said (if i understood correctly):

- if the hood chooses someone during the day, it happens immediately
- if the day ends before someone gets chosen, it's rng'd post-flip and they get added to the hood then

[Dumb and Dumber]

although now that i'm rereading it's a little confusing and maybe i misunderstood when they get added

but the choosing who to add flip is a day action
i'm not sure when the actual adding part happens

pedit i asked notsci as a result of mena posting that theory originally because i realized i didn't understand the timeline
i thought he was talking abt me being the day1 inductee, didn't realize he was talking abt day2

[Dumb and Dumber]

weird if whoever is picked to be neighborized is eliminated, regardless of when it goes into effect. then there would be no recruiter?

idk
it is possible i misunderstood but that is my understanding of the timeline for when things happen

[Dumb and Dumber]

lilith what don't you like abt those?

[Dumb and Dumber]

- trying to push gamma as bomb
- while also pushing the people on his wagon as scum
- weird progression on infinity - I straight up didn’t read him as town ever. what did you and auro townread about him D1?

Gotta like do work now so i'll circle back to this

But i still think mena is the bomb

Later!

[Dumb and Dumber]

- trying to push gamma as bomb
- while also pushing the people on his wagon as scum
- weird progression on infinity - I straight up didn’t read him as town ever. what did you and auro townread about him D1?

i still think that mena is the bomb
when i said i was suspicious of the people on his wagon, i was thinking that scum were probably trying to avoid the mc wagon and were thus on the cw
it hadn't like 'clicked' in my brain yet that if mena is the bomb and scum's choices were to be between mc and bomb-gamma, they'd be on mc
now that i realize this i'm not particularly sus of the people on gamma's wagon just because they were on the wagon

for infinity i had a few Good Vibes from him - i think the strength of the read really came from auro and i don't have a good explanation for hwy he did, you'll have to ask him

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

I’m slightly irritated by the lack of desire to sort my slot via actually sorting me vs my predecessor but equally I understand it I guess

i mean

[Dumb and Dumber]

good use of 'preponderance'

[Dumb and Dumber]

Yeah, my thoughts on catboi had... updated, not too concerned about analyzing it in detail right now if we're yeeting Mena today anyway

V/LA till Saturday

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

i'm also only going to be around incidentally through sunday

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Gc + catboi + yyotta + nm

Unless catboi thats hammer and mena all but conceded

Sorry mena - you repped into a tough slot

But we were basically 3/3

Skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Lilith <3 sorry for clashing with u

Gg all, this was a fun one

Pedit unless catboi unvoted, i missed that word there >.>

Also lilith were u guys inducted to the hood n1? We were p sure

[Dumb and Dumber]

Mena when i asked abt salsa's death you should have just gone: meh idk

Your answer was scummy in that it belied a narrative that scum were very likely to have thought up but town wouldnt have

[Dumb and Dumber]

Not mafia, we were ~95% confident on that

[Dumb and Dumber]

Oh we thought you were n1. Hmmm

[Dumb and Dumber]

Not mafia, we were ~95% confident on that

Ic, not n1 recruit to clarify

[Dumb and Dumber]

Town just abt never has that detailed a narrative to share. Its a p reliable scumtell

[Dumb and Dumber]

There was another time where penguin all but spelled it out

[Dumb and Dumber]

There's 7 alive, that's a typo

[Dumb and Dumber]

Woohoo!

-Dumbass