Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Green Crayons]

cool story.

[Andresvmb]

Hahaha okay. I’m going to stick to my vote.

[VP Baltar]

GC, can you explain your thought process in landing on midway yesterday?

Also, who do you most want to yeet today?

[Dunnstral]

@dunn

: 2313 from yesterday please

Andres, mom, Datsi feel town

my name is 6 letters please it's not that difficult i promise

also you explain any of these?

every time I try and do something

the joke here is that the amount of times this has happened is zero.

cookie if you're town can you please start actually working with us? you've had plenty questions thrown your way.

They're just feelings

Andres is arguing aggressively and what they argue seems good to me (the caveat here is I don't believe he is the cause of most of the miselim's thus far)

[VP Baltar]

I'm doing some rereading, so pardon if I start referencing some older stuff over the past 7-10 pages. They piled up on me quickly and I want to give them a more careful eye now that I have some time.

I mean I didn't even realize it was the hammer but that doesn't matter.

Do you usually not look at the vote count when you vote? You didn't have a sense that midway was getting close to being yeeted?

[VP Baltar]

@Datisi --- what do you think the optimal play of a neighborhood is? And if you had been given the sole choice to pick last night, who would you have neighborized?

[VP Baltar]

I'm not sold on maxwell and GC being town.

I had maxwell in my earlier solve. But I think Town is somewhat underpowered without what I think their role is, which is why I’m thinking they’re somewhat clear.

I don't want to get into setup speculation too much, but we had a cop/doc combo this game, even if they were nerfed a bit. That's a good deal of town power. Unfortunately, the dice roll was strongly against town this game.

[VP Baltar]

If maxwell and GC are partners I think maxwell's play doesn't make sense. For one, maxwell only said he can confirm GC as neighborizer and not his alignment, which in no way clears him, so even if GC was in danger (which I don't think he was in immediate danger) that play from Maxwell is not guaranteed to save him. Furthermore, if GC and maxwell are both indeed fake, then surely there is at least one more PR or even two. If that/those PRs claim, then things get messy for them.

This is kind of a wrong take I think. As scum, you never want to claim you can guarantee the alignment of a buddy. If you or that person ever flip, then it becomes a 2-for-1 situation.

[VP Baltar]

@VPB can you give me some thoughts on Momrangal? Am I seeing ghosts there? I argued with midwaybear that they were unlikely to be Scum because they didn’t have any defenders basically, and that they’re positioning didn’t make sense because they were attacking all of the more vocal slots. It’s not directly the case with Momrangal, but it’s a slight variation of this. However, I really do think that Momrangal is way off about me. And midwaybear did backtrack, unvoting VPB for example. Momrangal seems to be doubling down. What do you think?

Having done a little more rereading, the hammer is definitely bad. I'm still going back over your fight with mom, so Ill see if she addresses this more specifically there.

I'm not 100% following what you're saying about comparing momrangal and midway though? Are you saying you think momrangal is in a similar situation today to where midway was yesterday?

[VP Baltar]

You know what I think? I think we’ve given too many of the quieter slots too much leeway to behave in the way that they have.

At this stage, I want an execution in {Momrangal, DGB, Dunn}. If for whatever reason all of us have just been off and are overly paranoid about each other (and I mean RLotus, VPB, Datisi, Me), and we’re actually Town here, we need to punish the slots that are also still ending up on Town. I would like to start with Momrangal, who very clearly had a Scummy vote last night and has a perspective that doesn’t make any sense to me, and they conveniently refuse to update.

lol, wish we would have yeeted Dunn on D1.

I don't know why this site's meta turned to "lurkers must be town."

[VP Baltar]

I still believe that Dunn isn’t going to flip Scum because of how the votes piled up

I think we should revisit this and all the wagons here soon. Some VC analysis can't hurt in seeing who is where as things are peaking.

[VP Baltar]

Green Crayons has a lot of votes on Town actually. Cookie Monster, obviously midwaybear.

RTP, voted for Dunn in the early part of D2 which I have been pointing is a slight rehash of D1.

Yep, this is basically what I was getting at earlier today when I said I felt like GC might not be town.

He has a lot of votes toward town players without really putting much skin in the game and pushing on people. He's kind of inoffensive in a way that could be scum blending in just enough.

[VP Baltar]

Compare that to yourself and Datisi who were driving forces in

every single town wagon

. Yes, it is very clear you two should be looked at. It boggles my mind that Datisi isn't seeing this.

is "driving force" something more than just votes from VD elimination?

I was referring to VD, midway, RTP, and Cookie Monster. As VPB stated it may be a bit of an exaggeration to call them a driving force on VD, but you get the gist.

Looking at this again, dude, I was not a "driving force" on RTP. I stepped in to call RTP town when BM was losing his shit and RTP was calling me scum.

I never voted cookie monster either. I said we should not just auto believe an unprompted AtE claim like that, but I was also the person who put my foot down first on yeeting Cookie Monster.

This is my struggle a bit with you and andres. There are times when you get way out over your skis in how you're characterizing events. I wish you didn't do that because it comes across as scummy, and I don't think you're trying to. Accuracy matters.

[VP Baltar]

If cookie clarifies that that was a legit claim I’ll switch my vote

Otherwise I disagree with Andres that the claim itself is AI

I'd rather we don't try to verify the doc claim. I don't think we should yeet cookie today

hm
it didn't really occur to me that cookie might be town fakeclaiming but if we don't have plans yeeting there today i feel like she should not be clarifying that

pedit: lol

I only skimmed the pst few pages so from memory:

Yeah I don’t think the claim absolves cookie and I’d still like to pressure an elim, but if we’re not going down that path anymore then okay

Baltar why were you focused on whether there was midway momentum?

Andres were you satisfied with Baltar’s explanation of his change on midway?

I’m good with a midway vote bc of the prior suspicions I articulated + his preemptive vote on me when I was working through them with Qs posed to him, but I saw someone (Andres?) say we’re E-1 already? So I’m claiming intent to hammer.

Bolding mine.

If GC is scum, this is a pivotal moment. I say 'no way we are yeeting cookie today'. Datisi simulposts a similar sentiment and then GC is like 'oh well I don't think the claim does much, but yeah whatever'

That feels exceptionally vanilla of a reaction to doc claim.

[OutWorldER]

Official Vote Count 3.02

Morris Mechanic Theater, Baltimore

---

Elimination

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to eliminate someone.


Green Crayons (2): Andresvmb, VP Baltar
VP Baltar (1): DrippingGoofball
Datisi (1): RLotus
RLotus (1): Datisi
Momrangal (1): maxwell

Not Voting

(3): Green Crayons, Momrangal, Dunnstral

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-03-31 19:39:15).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[DrippingGoofball]

Why are people voting GC?

[VP Baltar]

Why are people voting GC?

He's voted a bunch of town players, pressured cookie on the doc claim the hardest, and has been "present" but not really pushing the game in any particular direction.

[Datisi]

oop i got distracted

agree that maxwell!scum + green!town isn't a combination that's at all likely considering maxwell didn't have to stop the momentum against green earlier, and i'm p sure he wasn't too townread after yesterday either
if green flips town - max is town to me, if max flips red - nuke green

also agree on no massclaim yet

i didn't really mind momrangal's hammer on midway because i stand behind that there was no point dragging the day out when he'd claimed, and once the day's execution is decided, further discussion mainly helps scum. however i dislike the "datisi was telling me to vote" excuse, especially as i'm under fire today.

ok made it to my yesterday's posts

Why why why is this scummy? You think we should ignore the people on both Italiano's and midway's wagon? The fact that you aren't the least bit suspicious of VPB STILL is shocking. This is the natural place to look, this is not a scummy push.

I do agree with this criticism. I don't think it's scummy to be very suspicious of myself and Datisi today. I would be if I was on the otherside.

I don't think it's guaranteed one of us is scum, but it's a reasonable take objectively.

again, this is not what i was saying. read the bottom part of 2809.

I don't see much difference from your opinions yesterday. Where have you re evaluated?

> arguing with you and trying to figure out if your points are bullshit or not
> trying to pull something out of dgb and dunn
> getting momrangal to explain her positions
> "where have you reevaluated?"

i'm not saying it's "just paranoia", like i'm not stupid i see my pushes have flipped town and why that would be suspicious.

Your play does not reflect this whatsoever.

"i understand why people would be looking my way considering my involement with the two town wagons" and "i'm not gonna roll over and die and i will still bite back if i get the feeling someone is shitpushing me" are not mutually exclusive

have you explained what the "hooking people into answering" means?

but you're not looking at the bigger picture here. i never voted cookie, and i instantly said not to actually verify her claim / push her when it came up and agreed to give her a day or so. like attacking the doctor in hindsight doesn't look good, obviously. but why the fuck does scum!me do it? to point attention at myself and how much i think the claim is bad, only to then... nightkill her anyway?

If there was the potential that Cookie get executed during the day, wouldn’t Scum want to take advantage of that? I would argue that’s at least something I would explore as Scum.

yeah sure, scum could attempt to push cookie and try to get the doc executed. ...which brings me back to the fact that as soon as someone said "oh we should verify the claim" and started setting up a push, my reaction was "no let's not do that" (2382)

Interesting that now that you’re being pushed you come out of the woodwork to speak. But when Datisi/RLotus/VPB/Me are killing each other you do nothing to de-escalate.

hm
green, what is your opinion on me/lotus? me/baltar?

I separately had problems with Datisi's midway push, which I think I've resolved after having reviewed twice now & discussed in neighborhood iwth Datisi and mom; but it still has lowered my estimation of him.

so... why did you join my midway's push yesterday? and you said in hindsight it doesn't seem mailicous to you, so why's it lowering your estimation of me?

@dunn, do you have strong opinions on *anything* today
who do you wanna vote?

@Datisi --- what do you think the optimal play of a neighborhood is? And if you had been given the sole choice to pick last night, who would you have neighborized?

green said he didn't have a separate power so i figured the hood is as useful as we make it to be. i think "optimal play" of a created hood is situational, basically what would give the most overall utility. dgb said it's demotivated, maybe the ability for it to post in our hood and talk to us would motivate it to contribute, that's +town regardless of its alignment. momrangal i was starting to have doubts on, i though having her in the hood would help me sort her more closely. and i think you're being town in a way that's far out from 2157, and also i have the most games w you and i feel like we work well together. granted adding you into the hood would be +town because it would motivate *me* to spend more effort in the game rather than a specific utility of reading x person, but. whether a hood is fun or not is a big factor to me bc fun is what motivates me to play this game. given a free choice, i'd add you, no thinking.

[Datisi]

hi dgb why are you voting baltar?

[DrippingGoofball]

hi dgb why are you voting baltar?

He's my biggest town read, so he's scum.

[Green Crayons]

GC, can you explain your thought process in landing on midway yesterday?

i thought he was lost scum who found it easy to do catch up posts when he first replaced in but then didn't really know how to act town so just drifted and was absent

Also, who do you most want to yeet today?

seriously considering Andres

[Green Crayons]

RLotus Green Crayons is not very Towny. If they were, RTP would not have suspected them. And you can’t get away from all the bad votes. Some discussion around two slots is not good enough to outweigh all of that.

We should listen to RTP's D1 suspicions.

Didn't Koba Express a scum read on you and well?

Yeah they placed me on their solve towards the end of the day.

Listen, if after everything I’ve been fighting for, you want to execute me first here, by all means. I’m so tired of this game, I won’t fight it too hard. You want to burn the Town to the ground with the worst mis-execution I would have ever been subjected to, go right ahead.

We shouldn't listen to RTP's D1 suspicions.

I didn’t say we shouldn’t act on RTPs suspicions D1. If you want to rely on them to execute me, by all means.

this is stupidly LAMIST

Andres would obviously kick and scream against his elim, regardless of alignment

[VP Baltar]

hi dgb why are you voting baltar?

He's my biggest town read, so he's scum.

<3

[Green Crayons]

Green Crayons has a lot of votes on Town actually. Cookie Monster, obviously midwaybear.

and RTP. three votes on folks who ended up town. what's your success rate so far?

Better than yours.

you've voted 2 players who flipped town, 1 player i know is town (me), and 1 player who is obvtown (Lotus)

so we're basically the same and this is a fake metric

[Green Crayons]

so... why did you join my midway's push yesterday? and you said in hindsight it doesn't seem mailicous to you, so why's it lowering your estimation of me?

you've got it backwards, i suspected midway before your push.

because midway flipped green