Mini 2251: Triplicate! GAME OVER!

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Hi there

So what is the best way to not feel completely lost in this game?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Way ahead of you on that one

[Alyssa The Lamb]

This game already feels like a fucking headache

Let's go along this track first: Why was MegAzumarill killed day one?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm actually really curious, mastina

Why did you give me mostly information about Game B when we are in presumably ELo in Game A?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Another question

What are your current reads regarding both games individually?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

mfw

[Alyssa The Lamb]

2081 and 2082 are no longer relevant

I'd still like to discuss 2080 though

[Alyssa The Lamb]

tbh I believe the rolecop finder claim

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I just skimmed through a bunch of Lady Chloe's more recent posts and it's making me really not like their odds of being town in A.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Titus, do you have a failsafe if RR happens to be scum fake claiming?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Ftr I believe that there is pretty strong odds that RR is scum in A based on the timing that he outed this information

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Titus, do you have a failsafe if RR happens to be scum fake claiming?

Ftr I believe that there is pretty strong odds that RR is scum in A based on the timing that he outed this information

Not exactly. Yet, it's not really worth considering until a miselimination (if there is one).

If we hit paydirt on Amy/Dunn, then RR can only pursue two miseliminations (Alyssa and House) and he'd need them both. The other of Amy/Dunn and T3 become conftown. It's not a strong move for RR to bus with that claim.

If we miss in Amy/Dunn, then we get into elo (provided no blocked kill) with Amy/Dunn/RR containing one scum. RR has to claim result or blocked. If he claims a result, his perspective is locked provided one and only one of Alyssa/House are on the wagon.

It's a very narrow route for RR, which I really only see in an RR+T3 universe.

you're underestimating how much a scumflip in Amy/Dunn would validate his role and sell the mechanical solve as valid

plus if he is also scum in game A, which I independently suspect is the case, then it also distracts from that game as well

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Do we have any basis for Dunnstral's extra vote being unaligned other than him saying that he messaged the mod?

Because that is exactly the type of role I would expect scum to have to fuck with Cheeky's role

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I am self-aware that I am not thinking critically but I do believe Dunnstral is also a good elimination for Game B at least. I've seen nothing to contradict being Mafia in A.

My reasons for scumreading Cheeky in A is best described as gun. I draw a blade dipped in poison but I don't want another haph-hazard conclusion precent a 3/3 town win.

I have distaste for T3's play if he is town in B.

I do not feel moved by the constant back snd forth between mastina, Amy, and Titus.

I wish Lady Alyssa had tea with me.

when life isn't kicking my ass sure

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Idk what you're expecting me to do when Game A is waiting on claims and Game B is knee deep in setup nonsense

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I think RR is just full of shit, frankly

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Idk what you're expecting me to do when Game A is waiting on claims and Game B is knee deep in setup nonsense

Give me your current opinion without the claims. I think it's just Cheeky left.

In B, you can read people based off their play.

Give me something. Anything.

I did give you something

I don't think this mech solve in B is valid and that RR is the most likely scum slot in the game, likely with Dunn.

I don't feel like pushing it because the nature of his claim makes it impossible.

So really I'm just waiting until people decide on what they're going to decide on so we can get back to the game that actually matters right now

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I don't buy the claim in the first place

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Tell me how an RR+Dunn team wins game B if things stay the same

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I don't think they ever do without RR gaining endgame cred somehow

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Real question Titus

What do you think is the gameplan of any scumteam that includes Dunn?

How about any that includes Amy?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Ignore the claim, Titus

Assume it's the very start of the day

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Ngl it kinda stretches belief that she wouldn't know if my slot had voted at all

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Amy is dead town in game A

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I verify this

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'd also like to point out that as confirmed town in Game A, I functionally have no reason to not be 100% truthful about Ircher's thoughts regarding Game A

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Man this game is really uninteresting atm

[Alyssa The Lamb]

lol

[Alyssa The Lamb]

god RR was so transparently scum

[Alyssa The Lamb]

What's the vote structure that we need again?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I wish I had thought to ask Cheeky about the conversations about the Universal Backup before she flipped, but I'm kinda struggling to see how this claim works unless he's scum with exactly Titus and nobody else.

With Dunnstral's role in the game, it's still a lot more likely that it's just him as scum, and then we can just go from there depending on who the remaining scum kill tonight.
If Dunnstral is town, then what the fuck was the point of that role?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Now that I think about it, it's a bit hard to believe that two people would both be scum in two separate games

I expect that the scumteams for all three games were fully randomized, but that still seems... odd.

It's a bit out there enough that it's probably just too improbable compared to the role just being genuine.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I wish I had thought to ask Cheeky about the conversations about the Universal Backup before she flipped, but I'm kinda struggling to see how this claim works

as scum

unless he's scum with exactly Titus and nobody else.

With Dunnstral's role in the game, it's still a lot more likely that it's just him as scum, and then we can just go from there depending on who the remaining scum kill tonight.
If Dunnstral is town, then what the fuck was the point of that role?

fixed

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I feel like it should've also been obvious Titus was scum but the exact thought process leading to it escapes me

shrug

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I see Alyssa posting elsewhere and not here.

And?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Idk what exactly you want to see considering the only things that have happened since I last posted are a bunch of debating on game As balance and the same shit that everyone has been repeating about game B for like a week now

[Alyssa The Lamb]

This game has been a broken record since I replaced in

[Alyssa The Lamb]

....no

You replaced in before me

Mastina even quoted her catchup post towards you to me

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I wish I had thought to ask Cheeky about the conversations about the Universal Backup before she flipped, but I'm kinda struggling to see how this claim works unless he's scum with exactly Titus and nobody else.

With Dunnstral's role in the game, it's still a lot more likely that it's just him as scum, and then we can just go from there depending on who the remaining scum kill tonight.
If Dunnstral is town, then what the fuck was the point of that role?

Now that I think about it, it's a bit hard to believe that two people would both be scum in two separate games

I expect that the scumteams for all three games were fully randomized, but that still seems... odd.

It's a bit out there enough that it's probably just too improbable compared to the role just being genuine.

Here you go

Nothing has changed since then

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I wish I had thought to ask Cheeky about the conversations about the Universal Backup before she flipped, but I'm kinda struggling to see how this claim works unless he's scum with exactly Titus and nobody else.

With Dunnstral's role in the game, it's still a lot more likely that it's just him as scum, and then we can just go from there depending on who the remaining scum kill tonight.
If Dunnstral is town, then what the fuck was the point of that role?

Now that I think about it, it's a bit hard to believe that two people would both be scum in two separate games

I expect that the scumteams for all three games were fully randomized, but that still seems... odd.

It's a bit out there enough that it's probably just too improbable compared to the role just being genuine.

Here you go

Nothing has changed since then

Page 113 and all you've got is that I'm scum for being a double voter?

And some gamblers fallacy too

This game really isn't as complicated as people are making it out to be

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Additionally, due to your special nature you have access to this PT. You may choose a name, and cast a vote using that name by posting in said PT. This is in addition to the vote described above and will not change the required number of votes for the vote threshhold.

I'm flabbergasted

[Alyssa The Lamb]

dunnstral deadass chose to use his extra vote using a name that was more indicative of a scum role than a town role

what the fuck

[Alyssa The Lamb]

i would have chosen "t3 is fucking epic" or just to troll the entire game i would make my extra vote "Jingle" or something lol
anywayyyyyyys what does that flip tell us

It's best not to discuss it until night phase ends

[Alyssa The Lamb]

so what's rhe result RR

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Okay hold up

So you're telling me that we went through all that to get essentially the information that it's either RR or Amy Dunne?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Basically the same information that we had yesterday?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Titus

How much of this play was for your Game A wincon and how much was for your Game B wincon?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm referring to the claim in Game B

How much of this was specifically planned out to happen the way it did?

Because I don't see how this is a mech solve in the slightest

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Ftr mastina

I strongly doubt anyone other than me has any interest in what you have to say about the game, so you're very unlikely to get anywhere from trying to convince anyone else of anything

I do still want to talk things out with you a bit, especially since you know more about mech stuff than I do

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm mostly interested in sorting Titus one way or another, since that's ultimately what solves the game for me

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Also I will paraphrase the neighborhood tonight, I'm at work all day

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Because you're the obvious partner for RR

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Like

My issue with this game atm is that it just makes a lot of sense to me for scum to have a UB with the roles that are flipped

Town having an extra vote that interacts with Cheekys role and scum having the ability to make specific players take one more or less vote to eliminate just makes sense, especially since there's more potential value in inheriting Cheeky's role than Dwlees

I've seen Dwlee's ability to manipulate the game, so him making that proclamation that he will use his role on himself to allow him to die without dying in A could easily have also been to ensure that RR gets Cheeky's ability rather than his

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Mastina is legit 3p

I would bet the game on it

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Idk

Jingle's setups often have something particularly off about it when he does these unique ones

Game A being so imbalanced and this one having your role in it that doesn't quite fit might be just that

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Do you think RR is capable of setting this up by himself?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Themselves

Sorry

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Game B neighborizer or what

Because he flipped VT in B

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Huh

You know, I should've probably realized by the fact that I got told about the neighborhood separately from my roles that it wasn't just part of my role

[Alyssa The Lamb]

So there's someone out there that makes neighborhoods too

Ngl I really have no clue what the point of that role is

[Alyssa The Lamb]

ok

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Me
RR
Dunn
T3
Ircher
Dwlee

Iirc

[Alyssa The Lamb]

House is in too

That is comprehensive

[Alyssa The Lamb]

No

Borderline nothing has been in there other than a page of ego posts and calling people scum for ego posting

Then a bunch of Ircher talking and occasional posts from other people

[Alyssa The Lamb]

T3 and dwlee have like 3-4 posts between them in the neighborhood to give you an idea

[Alyssa The Lamb]

The neighborhood hasn't changed at all since the beginning as far as I can tell

[Alyssa The Lamb]

It started on Dec 5

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Yup

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I mean... if it's not you either, then mechanically it has to be house

Idk how to even characterize what House is doing atm

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I kinda want to say it's Amy+House just so that he isn't just outright trolling the game

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Is there any reasoning that RR+Titus is impossible beyond the Game A scum thread thing?

Because I really don't think that's as strong as you think it is unless the gamestate itself supports a cheeky kill N1

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Also I asked Titus already, but I want to ask you too whether RR could realistically organize this type of endgame by himself

[Alyssa The Lamb]

It would've been RCE that helped orchestrate this, not me

I would've been more support on the actual execution after I replace in

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Dunnstral thinks it's Amy + House btw

I'm kinda leaning that way too now

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm going to read that when I'm not on a mobile device

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Shotgun response off general associatives is that I would be more cautious about them in a game like this

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Dwlee is spamming the neighborhood

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Dunnstral made a pretty good point in the neighborhood, and one that realistically shouldn't be reposted in the main thread

but it means I need to think a bit about how to proceed from here, since the gamestate really isn't as clear cut as it looks anymore

[Alyssa The Lamb]

MegAzumarill (E-0): Demon Lord, House, mastina, CheekyTeeky, T3, Radical Rat, Dwlee99, HAMMER!

Demon Lord -> House -> Mastina -> CheekyTeeky -> RR/Dwlee

the obvious potential solution already fails since we physically can't prove RR to be town

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I don't think there's any way we can properly sort Amy/RR conclusively while eliminating House today, and assuming that there is a kill tonight, Mastina is needed to get any elimination tomorrow, which means town physically cannot win if the scumteam is anything other than the two combinations mentioned by her unless she can be convinced that she's falsely clearing one

at least unless she decides to scumside, which isn't entirely unrealistic since I've seen her do that before

[Alyssa The Lamb]

oh boy

[Alyssa The Lamb]

It's confirmed that Dwlee has access to the scum PT still?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Mastina, there's a pretty significant difference between a significant portion of the game being played in a PT that only has one player overlapping between within it and the main thread... and a single point being made in a PT that, with a judgment call, should remain there

[Alyssa The Lamb]

and although it's probably not immediately obvious since I haven't really referred to it anywhere (maybe once?), I remember significantly less about my past games than I did back before I left.

a lot has happened in my life in the time I've been gone, and that sticks a lot better than a bunch of information on a website that has no relevance to me outside of it that until recently I had zero plans of ever returning to

[Alyssa The Lamb]

but for posterity, what Dunn was speaking to me about in the PT was relating to you, and it gave me an insight into the game that could easily be relevant to the remainder of the game, but it has to be pretty carefully handled in order for us to get any advantage out of it

[Alyssa The Lamb]

yeah I checked that right before

[Alyssa The Lamb]

House

who is Titus' partner?

you have essentially a 0% chance of a titus kill today

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Who even can be her partner if not RR

[Alyssa The Lamb]

is that physically possible with RR's results?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

is there a list of every result in one spot, actually?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

oh

that actually does confirm that Titus can only be scum with RR

[Alyssa The Lamb]

associatives

the bane of my existence

[Alyssa The Lamb]

associatives

the bane of my existence

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm so afraid of them that I had to post that twice

[Alyssa The Lamb]

no but legit

associatives don't mean shit most of the time, they're way easier to manufacture and muddy up than it is to use them to get accurate scumreads from scumflips

it's almost disturbing how easy a lot of people just trust that scum wouldn't do specific things, it feels like a blanket thing

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I mean

if you just pull shit straight out of your ass, you're going to be right like 20% of the time anyways

[Alyssa The Lamb]

it's technically possible that it's RR

but more likely than not House

[Alyssa The Lamb]

it's technically possible that it's RR

but more likely than not House

How can I possibly be aligned with RR? Why does he position a 1v1 with me and Dunn, just to bus me one day later?

And Mastina’s already explained why my interactions with House don’t make sense as buddies.

because this 1v1 doesn't make sense from a scum perspective where both of you are scum

[Alyssa The Lamb]

or

RR claimed his UB and then was forced into a situation where he had to 1v1 you as the best odds of winning the game

[Alyssa The Lamb]

well that's why it would work, wouldn't it

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I haven't checked to see if the actual VCs support that or not yet, but somehow I doubt that there's very many options available regardless

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Its mechanically impossible outside of RR lying as town

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Have fun!

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I see I missed some quality content in this thread

[Alyssa The Lamb]

why does scum!house choose a 1v1 with Titus exactly

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I mean

mastina has also said that she's not going to vote House

so there wouldn't have been support for it anyways unless he's town

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I feel like there has to be TMI in here somewhere

I felt it mostly in how RR approached voting today, but Amy expressing borderline the same thing really doesn't help narrow that down

[Alyssa The Lamb]

RCE and Alyssa are both damn good at hunting for breadcrumbs so there's no way they miss it)...

what

this is the first I've ever heard of me being good at hunting for crumbs

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I am VT

[Alyssa The Lamb]

idk

honestly I'm almost at the point where I just want to end the day and deal with this shit tomorrow if we get it right

[Alyssa The Lamb]

even if I just make the assumption that you're town, that still doesn't get me anywhere since literally nobody else looks town

[Alyssa The Lamb]

you have House that's just doing... whatever the hell he's doing
you have Amy who's just... flat as hell, really weak posts and no actual presence like I'd expect her to
you have RR who's just... flat as hell, talking like they want to brute force Amy down but still acting like Amy is town

[Alyssa The Lamb]

That's... not at all what I said.

I said I COULD have made them up IF I were scum faking a hit on Titus' bulletproof bodyguarding me, BECAUSE that would have given me enough towncred to push things through.


Please actually read my posts before attempting to misrep them

That is also not what I said. I said I WOULD kill T3 here, but so would ANY competent scumteam

If I already didn’t know that you lied about me, I’d probably be voting you for 3147 alone.

like these two posts by themselves give me exactly the same vibe

[Alyssa The Lamb]

good god

what if House is just town and this is just a horribly botched gambit that Amy and RR are doing

[Alyssa The Lamb]

What was the order of the claims?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Ircher has issues with the claims out there being balanced if RR is town

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I think i forgot to mention this before, but Dunn thinks Amy is scum

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Idk

Like I said before, jingle setups with novel ideas like this tend to be broken in general from my experience, so that isn't all that convincing to me

[Alyssa The Lamb]

What a great game of mafia

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm seeing the E-1 and explicitly not hammering in case anybody cares

I'm tempted to just get on with it anyways

[Alyssa The Lamb]

whatever

honestly, I don't think we're going to get anything else from today

VOTE: Radical Rat

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'll keep your secret Titus

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Turns out hard evidence and an easily traceable consistent story means nothing in the face of "No u"

if you're legit town this game, then it's mostly just the timing/logistics of the claim and the fact that the mech solve apparently got botched, and that really dashes your credibility by a lot

but tbf you also were really unlucky to have to deal with mastina, who is a stickler for mechanical things, and myself, who has a huge distrust for relying on mechanics to win the game in the first place

so maybe this game really just wasn't winnable in the first place from that spot, kinda hard to tell without actually looking into what other possible wagon compositions could've been

might be something for postgame

[Alyssa The Lamb]

so the scumteam was just Amy/House this whole time and I got too attached to assuming that there's any semblence of setups making sense on this site

oh well, lesson learned I guess

[Alyssa The Lamb]

also who the fuck was the neighborizer?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I guess it has to be a scum role

so how is this setup balanced again?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Would you like to fullclaim, mastina?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I see.

VOTE: Mastina

Guess you're Kingmaker now Titus

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I have no confirmation I win against a serial killer and I suspect that means I don't, so I'm not hammering that

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I honestly don't care who you choose Titus, I got dropped into a really shitty spot and i convinced most of the main thread and a lot of the neighborhood that I was town

So that's really enough for me

[Alyssa The Lamb]

An SK in the game makes the setup seem way less broken though, I will say

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Hold up

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Do you win a 1v1 endgame regardless of who is there?

Jingle just clarified that I do regardless

[Alyssa The Lamb]

UNVOTE:

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Because if you do, then we can just joint win anyways

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Although I'm guessing you already did check that before with just outing like that

VOTE: Titus

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I misunderstood Jingle the first time

Oops

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Gg

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Btw no town vig ever kills House there, so you had to know I was scum

[Alyssa The Lamb]

As much as I'm glad that we were stressing about this setup so much for no reason, it feels kinda bad that we won because town just rolled over and died pretty much

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I think there was zero universes where I would have approved a shot on her, especially if I thought to check to see if I win in a 1v1

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Also, is this game over explicitly so I can reference it elsewhere?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

This is the type of game that's incredibly hard to get into as a replacement, which is a big reason i never did anything for game A

[Alyssa The Lamb]

If it helps, a lot of my comments about your balancing was directly because of my wincon, I don't actually believe you're bad at balancing as much as those more out there mechanics are a lot easier to miss something with

I'd hoped that my posting in the scum pt made that obvious enough anyways

[Alyssa The Lamb]

The complaining in our PT was really more that the game just felt hopeless at that stage than anything I think, especially since the remaining two of us actually were in pretty okay spots

[Alyssa The Lamb]

We even argued about how we were going to try to endgame for a bit

[Alyssa The Lamb]

It's especially bad because it feels like 80% of my scumgames hit a point where the team itself is doing fine and then the setup itself is borderline PoEing us out

This is a lot of the reason I much prefer scum sided setups, I feel like towns get coddled a lot and it feels really bad to force scum to rely on killing PRs or they lose instead of killing players by townplay

Probably not a great spot for this discussion but that's the general feel I get playing scum in a lot of games here and it's the only real reason I don't like playing as scum more than town

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I hope I did your slot justice rce

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I think I just wanted the win more than everyone else and it showed

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm still not entirely sure it was mechanically correct to kill between RR and Amy even, but either way we had an advantage in both 1v1s so it's really hard to tell

But I'm an advocate for a lot of 1v1s not really needing to be resolved immediately if it's not going to be a massive distraction for the game and i think towns hurt from assuming it is

[Alyssa The Lamb]

We joint won, Amy

That's why Titus died

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Persistent scumchat would be a very good change for the site I think

[Alyssa The Lamb]

It might force setups to be more Townsided though which I'm far less enthused about

[Alyssa The Lamb]

No

We hit both wincons by reducing the game to just her and me

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Also please don't post in scumchat anymore

The fact that the last post is "Oh" is absolutely hilarious to me

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Ok good, it's preserved for all time

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Tbh anything that makes serious setups more scumsided are welcomed

Townsided games are inherently less fun imo

[Alyssa The Lamb]

As both alignments

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I initially rejected it because I misunderstood something jingle said

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Pushing town to using roles that are only conditionally strong will also help

Making town use roles to augment their in-thread deduction is very healthy for the game, and it should be very hard to get enough info from PRs to basically replace the actual social deduction or at least to make it really easy

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Like there was a pandemic of setups with loyal neighborizer a couple of years ago and it was absolutely horrific

That's basically a better cop

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Btw in case any of you are interested in meme-y setups I'm in queue with a mostly vanilla open in the mini theme queue and a jester setup in the micros. I've also got a large open based on dancegame that I'm going to be looking to polish and run sometime soon.

let me know when you have the dance setup finished

if I believe it fixes my issues with how the large ones function, I'll probably in for it

[Alyssa The Lamb]

huh

so groups can be more than 2 people? how do those work?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

that doesn't sound super intuitive

but just what you're telling me here is indicating to me that voting out entire groups is probably a terrible idea in a lot of cases, it sounds a lot more useful to just force specific players to leave

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I mean town coming to a consensus that a specific player should leave, but regardless, thinking more about it I'm not even sure that there's any reason town should ever have groups of more than two people in the first place

If you just add another town player and each group makes only groups of three, scum would instantly win the game if every scum were in different groups (3 TvTvT groups, 4 TvTvS groups)

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I think you'd have to have next to no scum relative to town in order for that to function as intended, and even then if you have like 18v2, town can just make groups of 2 and they just need to correctly identify three TvT pairings out of eight in order for scum to have no ability to win the game

[Alyssa The Lamb]

you had virtually no chance at that point

[Alyssa The Lamb]

that's the same as choosing mastina to win over me

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Vengeful ghosts was painful