Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[morph the cat]

After this, Ceph proceeds to pocket Shirou with 207 and 223.

ummm soooo

i voted you because i felt like you were working towards a potential shirou vote with your posts like. 509 you're saying you don't buy what shirou's saying, you're doubtful, it's felt like a theme in your iso where you're unsure about shirou. so why are you confident then that this is ceph pocketing?

Yeah in a vacuum I'm unsure about Shirou. But that's all it is, uncertainty. I'm willing to TR him by association with my SR on Ceph.

Do you feel that using day 1 associatives is >rand in accuracy down the road?

You ran right over our reads list.

What, am I supposed to shut up while the big kids talk about things that matter? I'm gonna do my thing.

I just want to point, Ceph, that this was me saying I wanted your thoughts about our reads list.

In reply to your post I made that explicit. :/

After our discussion last night about your feeling shut out in a lot of games, running into this convo in my reread hit me right in the face. Maybe sometimes your expectation of being shut out is self-fulfilling.

It seems like nQ wagon might be a popular choice for today? We should still explore our options, though.

This post gives me awful gut vibes and feels like it's supposed to go in the Scum PT.

It didn't look like a post meant for the scum PT to me, but overall I'm feeling like he's playing kinda on the sidelines and in a very self-referential way. It's been low-key bugging me for a while . Maybe this is a tough player list to break into for someone new to the site.

[snip]

not enough data to make an educated guess, but kinda scum-leaning tea, and kinda townleaning imaginality

How do you have anything but null on imaginality?

At the time it was sort of a tone-read, but I'm less copacetic atm. Compared to tea, imaginality was putting some data in the game at that point.

As to why less copacetic, I'm thinking about how ragey and solvey I get about being run up as town, whether I show the rage or not. Different players, different personalities, different styles. But there's absolutely no way I'd be joking about cauliflower in imaginality's shoes.

[morph the cat]

I meant those toooo

Later. I am pretty busy the next few days; evidently I cannot do anything g without upsetting someone which kinda suggests to me that this is important.

what is "this"? The redtea/imaginality wagons? Something else?

I hope you feel better soon, Ydra.

When you feel like getting back into the game I'm curious about your current thoughts on numbers.

[Amazonian Legends]

Vote: leap of faith

Joke obviously but I was just going to list who I’d rather not eliminate vs who I’d be okay with and I realized the people I’d be okay with are red tea, imaginality or numberq, and while I stopped panicking about getting the day one elimination perfect and hitting scum a long time ago and opting for an if I don’t have a scum read I feel confident in pushing being okay with an elimination on someone I don’t have a town read on route, I’m not entirely pleased with my would be okay with list.

Numberq’s vla so I didn’t get a chance to see if my concerns on him were valid or just not liking his takes. I didn’t like the “what is shirou getting out of this” posts or parts of his cephrir stuff like the hostile and dismissive stuff. It felt like a weird add in, especially when I don’t think cephrir has been hostile at all, and numberq modded trust fall and there was certainly town hostility there, so I know he knows town can be hostile. I saw that implosion had a town read there partly based on meta. I don’t want to do research but maybe I will. Regardless of how I feel, I wouldn’t be okay with this Lim now due to him being v/la. (I hope everything is okay with your family btw)

Red tea - this one is an absolute toss up. I don’t have a town read here, but neither do I have a scum read. I might have some thoughts about guilty lions push here when I get back from the rink and reread a few things, but I would not be surprised if redtea flipped town or scum. Penguin has reasons to scum read them, and I’m not opposed. Though I did not like the spoilered portion of the “wall”.

Imaginality - I don’t care about the waffliness in his reads because I’m a total waffle queen. And the big post that was more summary than analysis bugged me too but I’m also reminded that back in the way back when I was a far more rigorous mafia player than I am now, I used todo that too. So that bugged me and I know that scum tend to do that but I did it as town too, so hrm. And I have liked some of his posts, like the sorry to disappoint you’ll have to wait longer for scum post. Yes, I know scum can say that too but it’s my weakness, but those are the types of posts I’ve liked and not the content stuff. I didn’t like the “look at the speed of my wagon vs redteas” that just really bugged me. So I’m mostly okay with this because of the game suspicion and I don’t have a town read there.

BUT I do not think that is the scum team. I don’t have an actual town read on everyone else, and I have reservations on most people I’m town leaning. And I will talk about that when I get back from the rink.

[morph the cat]

And the reason I phrase that as "sketch me out a bit?" is because morph is not someone who I would ever expect myself to be able to actually get a solid scumread on or who I really expected to have much of a solid read on in general.

I hate the hedginess of this statement given there's like zero posts in your iso that suggest you're all that undecided about us.

You're not going to convince me that this entirely an exercise of jumping at shadows. If I come to that conclusion it will on my own.

And as for this I still am going to make every attempt to do so, partially because I still need to continue sorting you as well and partially because of a very primal need to nag people who are scumreading me when I can.

Where is the sorting? There are 54 mentions of "morph" in your ISO and none of them strike me as particularly sort-y. What posts am I misreading?

And worse, there are 54 mentions of "morph" in your iso, and not one of them is actually geared at sorting us. Maybe I'm missing something?

[morph the cat]

the joys of coming back to a post after almost finishing it. :/

[Cephrir]

I just want to point, Ceph, that this was me saying I wanted your thoughts about our reads list.

In reply to your post I made that explicit. :/

After our discussion last night about your feeling shut out in a lot of games, running into this convo in my reread hit me right in the face. Maybe sometimes your expectation of being shut out is self-fulfilling.

Yes, you framed it as though I had done something wrong when I didnt even know you had posted a read list yet. This felt confusing and hostile to me. This post is also strangely hostile.

[Cephrir]

what is "this"? The redtea/imaginality wagons?

Yes and my vote specifically.

[redtea]

might've missed it bc i was skimming but kinda bummed no one responded to my questions in #1209. Like I didn't ask them just to ask, I asked because if someone had something to say it would be helpful to me.

a little old now but

@morph is this about me not responding to your question about my current fua read you posited *checks watch* 8 hours ago

You posted again a few hours after I asked the question without answering it. That's is of more concern to me than how many hours since I asked.

I just assumed you would've read #982 and held off on a follow-up accordingly, even if that @ wasn't to you

[morph the cat]

can someone better at meta compare 546 to this post for me

ty

@number? I didn't see you respond to this post, though it's not exactly addressed to you.

There are some at least superficial similarities to the two posts.

innos when relevant

?

I think that cops should always claim results here, even if it's only an inno?

Everyone is 1-shot so we aren't losing anything other than "hiding them from scum kills", but like, I don't want to write a wallpost here but basically it's not really that much of an issue even if they kill the inno given it would likely be someone that is a former suspect?

Forcing an inno to get nightkilled sounds way better to me than risking someone been cleared before but no one knowing it because the cop died at a night later before saying it.

I guess we can "crumb results" but...I don't know. I think it's obvious by now but I'm not a fan of crumbing, to the point I don't bother looking for crumbs even when I'm scum.

I'm more in the crumb an inno, claim a guilty camp. However you feel about crumbs and whether you personally would go looking for one, the data's still there and I'm pretty confident that

somebody

would find it after a cop's flip if there was no need to out it earlier.

innos when relevant

?

I think that cops should always claim results here, even if it's only an inno?

Everyone is 1-shot so we aren't losing anything other than "hiding them from scum kills", but like, I don't want to write a wallpost here but basically it's not really that much of an issue even if they kill the inno given it would likely be someone that is a former suspect?

Forcing an inno to get nightkilled sounds way better to me than risking someone been cleared before but no one knowing it because the cop died at a night later before saying it.

I guess we can "crumb results" but...I don't know. I think it's obvious by now but I'm not a fan of crumbing, to the point I don't bother looking for crumbs even when I'm scum.

Crumbing results is a bad idea unless the crumb is ridiculously obvious, because cops flip without their night so we'd have no way of knowing if a dead cop has a result.

I generally would have no issue with a cop claiming an inno in almost any situation. But if you're a cop and you have an inno, and that inno is under no pressure, and you're under little or no pressure, and you don't think you're likely to be NK'd, then it's not unreasonable to hold onto the info. Also not unreasonable to give it.

Eh.

Hypoclaiming would be another option I suppose. There would be no ambiguity after a cop flip, and prior to that, just a whole lot of noise for scum to ponder.

eh

if I was scum I would love that opinion of yours

being able to claim later on "oh btw I'm cop and my inno is a dead guy from ages ago" is too much of a convenient fakeclaim here

There's barely any difference between claiming innos as soon as day start, and "waiting" to claim innos for town (when you consider the risk of the cop dying without ever saying someone was cleared, in fact it sounds like a swingy strategy)

However there certainly is a lot of benefit for scum to be able to hold on claiming until later. You want to make scum claim as soon as possible in this setup in my opinion. If you leave it all for when we massclaim, scum can fakeclaim whatever is the most convenient to counter our results by then.

This is probably a take we should give our opinions on. Everyone should comment on whether they are in favor or against cops claiming the innos as soon as day start.

I'm in

favor

. I want to lock scum to their claims as soon as humanly possible.

Thoughts about hypoclaiming?

@fua

You aren't confirmed but I see where you're going/your motivation for doing it I guess.

Who did scum read fua again? GL? I wonder what their opinion on this is.

Implosion went after him, too.

I'm a bit worried that I'm starting to town lean fua now due to that even if I know they seem to have intentionally said it for that reason (so I would be basically doing exactly what they want which is a bit uncomfortable?), but all in all, considering some other details and how this can develop, for now I think it's probably for the best for me to personally town-bin fua (not necessarily an universal recommendation). We can cross certain bridges when we get there I suppose.

IMO he was town before the claim, so much so that I would have blatantly gone to bat today. I can academically understand the concern about being future LHF.

this is one read I can be wrong about, I'm bad with reading newbies, but I also think Tejate is probably more likely than not town.

Even if he isn't conscious of it, I feel like it would be quite weird for scum!Teijate to be so worried later about people "tying up" his slot to Ceph unless they are partners...and if Ceph ever flips red, well,

we can cross that bridge if we do ever get there³.

Lastly, his post "if Shirou is scum he's surely doing a good damn fine job at it" seems rather unusual/difficult to come up with for newbie scum. It may be a single post but it's the kind of person/player I'm. I feel better about reads surrounding a few posts rather than taking the entire ISO of someone into consideration.

p-edit: @Teijate I can tell fua is likely ballsy, but my opinion that this is the correct course of action to do at the moment remains.

I have some misgivings.

Have you never put your ducks in a row and singled out potential miselims to push as scum? By taking one of those away and putting that fat towncred on myself I remove some of their power and give town time to talk about the events preceding my alignment and role reveal.

What towncred are you getting though? That's my point.

well, there is the towncred they're getting from being obviously town on these last 2 pages, does that help

I should have <3'd this post when it hit the thread.

So from my read-through, these are the players I'm suspicious of to various degrees:

Cephrir

looks a bit suspicious to me, there's been a few instances of Cephrir commenting negatively on something without following through on it. Seems like the intent is to stir up suspicion rather than scum-hunt.

I'm also suspicious of

Ydrasse

. Need to go back and get the quotes but I remember being pinged at least a couple of times.

I think if anything

fua

's claim today is slightly +scum rather than +town as fua hinted it's a late-day action so it seems like it could be designed to encourage us to keep fua around, while also making docs likely to target fua which is fua is scum gives scum freer rein to kill whoever they like. Definitely feeling a bit wary about that.

--

The players I get good townvibes from so far are

Shirou

,

morph

and

numberQ

. I feel okay about

GuiltyLion

too. I don't quite recall what the case was against him but I do recall it didn't seem great to me.

--

Having a hard time figuring out where I stand on

Amazonian

and

Tejate

. They will be my focus for digging into tomorrow

I was interested in the way

implosion

defended Ydrasse and NSG in post 632. This is more of an 'if NSG or Ydrasse flip scum, I'd look harder at implosion' thing. I don't see implosion as being as questionable as the players I mentioned above.

redtea

and

northsidegal

fall into TBC, need more data here.

--
Mech thoughts:

I'm on board with the 'cops claim results at daystart' plan.

On a different note:

Assuming a 5-5 split, we have on average 97% chance of at least one pair of Town cops (i.e. cops who have the same action on the same night), and 78% chance of two pairs (or one triplet). Even if it's a 4-6 split, the 4 town players have 81% chance of at least one pair.
The same analysis applies to docs, of course.
So objectively, for the town as a whole, we can't really tell a lot from the existence of any particular pair.

However, subjectively it's a little different. Subjectively, there's 1-80%^4 = 60% chance of you being paired with a town player if you're part of five town players with that role (and 50% if there are four of you, 70% if there are six of you). So someone claiming the same role and night as you gives you at least a slight reason to suspect them over baseline suspicion (3/12 = 25%).

The main thing I have to say about this post is that it's spicy in that some the reads he put forth ran pretty counter to the prevailing winds at this time.

town: shirou
town lean: fua, tejate
neutral: ydrasse, amazonian i GUESS but please do more
neutral but i look extra not impressed while talking about them: everyone else
scumlean: guiltylion, nsg

do better

How has this readslist stood up over time?

honestly now that i think about it this is more or less what i'd expect from a morph/amazon scumteam. a cursory dance followed by townlocking each other for inscrutable or too easy reasons, and amazon not doing much to interact with the rest of the game because it's easy for them to look good interacting with morph.

so i reiterate, do better

How did you expect town morph and town Amazon to interact?

I'd join a wagon on any of redtea/GL/imaginality I think.

I dunno why, but the willingness to vote GL surprises me. I feel like I've missed some stuff in your posts. will have to review.

Only to people considering wagoning NSG atm

Spoiler:

I do think NSG can easily be scum here but I'm really against any wagons on her at least for now. I would even say optimally you don't want to wagon NSG D1 at all but that's up to discussion.

I don't want to defend her too hard if unnecessary though because...multiple reasons...but I think a NSG miselimination shouldn't ever happen if avoidable, because once she gets her solves going, she often becomes kind of an unconfirmed Innocent Child in the game, which either forces scum to kill her (and wink wink we've lots of doctors here) or to play the game as if there's one less miselimination possible, since if you try to miseliminate town!NSG when she's obvtown, it's almost guaranteed to backfire.

In this setup where we have both doctors to protect obvious night kill targets,

and

cops that will clear some suspicious slots, having slots like her alive for as long as possible is kinda "the town dream". So, I don't think I'm voting NSG D1 here ever except if I feel she's almost confirmed scum.

I feel like this is a fair amount of defense of a player Shirou isn't expressing a townread on? I dunno. I think we've got some serious playstyle clash going on with him.

[morph the cat]

I just want to point, Ceph, that this was me saying I wanted your thoughts about our reads list.

In reply to your post I made that explicit. :/

After our discussion last night about your feeling shut out in a lot of games, running into this convo in my reread hit me right in the face. Maybe sometimes your expectation of being shut out is self-fulfilling.

Yes, you framed it as though I had done something wrong when I didnt even know you had posted a read list yet. This felt confusing and hostile to me. This post is also strangely hostile.

It wasn't meant to be harsh at all. It's occurred to me that we've been talking past each other. We've both been reading each other as hostile. We've both been sarcastic. I've been more up in your grill and you've been more asparagus from the sidelines.

I'm feeling so zen right now. I've let go of feeling like I have to solve you all by myself, and I'm in a mode where I'd like to try to work with you.

Some games I mostly play from a place of feeling I dunno, cooperative?

That generally doesn't happen when I feel like I'm being piled on by players who I think should know better (regardless of whether that's a good assumption on my part).

[morph the cat]

might've missed it bc i was skimming but kinda bummed no one responded to my questions in #1209. Like I didn't ask them just to ask, I asked because if someone had something to say it would be helpful to me.

a little old now but

@morph is this about me not responding to your question about my current fua read you posited *checks watch* 8 hours ago

You posted again a few hours after I asked the question without answering it. That's is of more concern to me than how many hours since I asked.

I just assumed you would've read #982 and held off on a follow-up accordingly, even if that @ wasn't to you

When would be a suitable amount of time to expect an answer?

[Cephrir]

I'll do an updated read list next time I have more brain cells than "posting from a Subway."

Re: how I expected you to interact: in a word, more. It felt too easy.

[morph the cat]

ffs I am so bad with pronouns this game.

I'm so sorry. Will keep trying to do better.

[implosion]

I have many morph queries to answer, I know, I will answer them.

To answer out of order this page: hypoclaiming doesn't work because town players don't flip with their night, just as "cop" or "doctor". I was willing to vote GL partially because I felt like he's the type of player for whom coordinated pressure might help sort, along with him being null (this is e.g. why I didn't list nsg because I didn't think coordinated pressure on her would be as useful).

[Tejate Raichu]

Like, where is your imaginality read at now? Have you had a chance to do the review you mentioned doing?

No, I went to bed early. I'll do that in a little bit once I've had lunch.

Also, I sort of resent Shirou saying that reconsidering imaginality gives me scumpoints? Giving a slot's posts a second look doesn't necessarily mean I won't come to the same conclusion.

[Cephrir]

I have many morph queries to answer, I know, I will answer them.

To answer out of order this page: hypoclaiming doesn't work because town players don't flip with their night, just as "cop" or "doctor". I was willing to vote GL partially because I felt like he's the type of player for whom coordinated pressure might help sort, along with him being null (this is e.g. why I didn't list nsg because I didn't think coordinated pressure on her would be as useful).

I havent really thought about whether this would be worth it, but you could hypoclaim a night and then give your hypo result on the day after. Or you could hypoclaim every day from 2 on (if I'm a cop I wasnt a night 1 cop, etc)

[catboi]

Prodding northsidegal.

[implosion]

I havent really thought about whether this would be worth it, but you could hypoclaim a night and then give your hypo result on the day after. Or you could hypoclaim every day from 2 on (if I'm a cop I wasnt a night 1 cop, etc)

Hypoclaiming nights is likely a bad idea because scum can shoot the earlier night cops.

The second thing sounds like everyone simply claiming their results when they get them with the added step of people explicitly claiming when they don't have results, which seems unnecessary.

[GuiltyLion]

Sorry y'all for rewinding but I just started catching up on the pages I missed the other day and I want to zoom in on this post

This is probably the single most town thing they have posted in a while from my perspective.

Can you explain why you think that's a particularly townie post? I don't think it's especially hard for scum to ask somebody why they're townreading another player. Especially in worlds where redtea is town, there could be a potential scum motive in challenging people who are townreading redtea. So I'm curious to understand why you highlighted this as the "most town thing" they've done?

[Tejate Raichu]

I actually brought this up in an earlier post, but I don't think anyone actually responded. I agree that claiming nights seems very not necessary in this setup under most circumstances. A night 1 cop is obviously a stronger claim than a night 5 cop, so I'd rather not give mafia better information on who to target. It feels like it gives mafia too much information, while giving town none. We've already established that duplicate night claims mean almost nothing.

As for GL, I didn't say it was necessarily super town. Just townie relative to everything else I read over. I like the question itself (why townread redtea?) combined with the context (we had just got done with a discussion about limming lurky players because we can't read them well). It does seem rather odd for fua to come out of that discussion with a TR of all things.

Also, I'm gonna start doing laundry. Will look over imaginality's posts again I have everything loaded up.

[GuiltyLion]

i suppose i would be interested in why he chose redtea specifically.

right so I finally have the time/energy to specifically go into what I didn't like in redtea's ISO

let me break it down:

330 - it seems a little odd to me to open by saying that 328 made you laugh while also claiming to have not read the game fully yet. There'd be missing context for what I was pushing fua for, no reads on fua/myself to interpret our interaction - like is that post still as funny if fua is scum trying to discredit me? just seemed to me like an odd entry in the game and something that's more likely to come from an informed perspective re:fua and I's alignments, rather than town who hasn't read up

331 is a bad post. redtea doesn't give any indication of whether they are townreading fua, all they do is strawman the reason for suspecting fua and push against that strawman, while joking about themselves. Vibes exactly to me like scum who want to make a buddy in fua and also get a joking foothold into the game. The "conversationalist" remark feels like fake analysis, again there's no evidence of a thought process regarding whether town or scum is more likely to be "conversationalist", no evidence of trying to reason about fua's alignment.

332 is also inconsistent with 331 - if redtea only read between posts 248 and 330, and didn't read the beginning of the game, how are they making comments about fua's entry or their ISO? Did redtea read fua in ISO but not the game? why?

879-882 reminds me of stuff I do as scum to try to make it seem like I don't have an agenda, giving one opinion then immediately reversing it. it was also just an immediate hasty misrepresentation of my position, redtea acted like I was demanding a lim immediately ("we have 12 days left") when I wasn't.

as for a general pattern of play remark, a lot of redtea's content is in response to stuff happening in the thread when they are here, which indicates that they're at least reading along at some points in the game, but redtea doesn't give any indication whatsoever of their reads or how they see the game until 1209. I don't see proactive effort to engage with people or an obvious direction redtea wants to go for lim or pressure. Very much gives me scum coasting and not giving information vibes

And then 1209 is a janky post in that the questions/thoughts section doesn't correlate to the reads at all, as far as I can tell. It's also weird to have a "can go" category (which presumably means scumreads), but then a "flip would help" category for Tejate/Cephrir - what's the difference between "can go" and "flip would help", like is "flip would help" null? Why is that different than the "???" tier? I don't think that part of their post is inherently scum indicative but it sure doesn't show me a solvey/uninformed mindset, it's missing indicators of a town mindset that show me how the reads relate to each other or how they were arrived at.

[implosion]

@Implosion I'm probably rehashing shit, but I'm curious what about Ydra's 2 post have you a page 2 townlean on her. (I see that by page 10, only one player commented on this)

This is an interesting one because half of my answer is I have no real idea why I thought it based on those two posts, and the other half is that I strongly suspect I just felt the need to say

something

of content in that post. The reason for this is that that post marked the end of my breadcrumb (hence it starting with "Anyway.") and I think I just wanted to say something else in it and I probably thought either her quick read on Amazons or her first post were townish. I feel comfortable saying this because my breadcrumb is so obscured that I don't think it's possible to figure out even knowing where it is.

Noting this because I'm curious how this caution/fear has manifested since then.

This was referring to my caution/fear toward GL - it's interesting that you were curious how this had manifested since then, and then you later on were surprised that I was willing to wagon GL. I feel like you should be able to draw that connection if you were specifically looking for it.

I'm several pages past this post, and I didn't see anyone ask about this, and I'd like to know what the things he'd said at that point seemed a little towny too you.

This referring to Tejate Raichu and my 299. I think as a rule for me (this applies to the Ydrasse thing too) it's probably kind of a hopeless effort to ask me why I had specific early townreads because I have a habit as town of stating early townreads and then later literally being unable to justify why I had them - answering your question here involves me ISOing Tejate Raichu and trying to piece together what I was thinking, rather than going off of memory.

Probably it was to do with the aesthetics of his Amazons vote and Ydrasse interactions and of the aesthetics of his early thread interaction - like I had said early in this game I wasn't really looking very much at specific interactions or threads of thought and trying to analyze those things individually.

I hate the hedginess of this statement given there's like zero posts in your iso that suggest you're all that undecided about us.

I don't think that's true? I mean the post you quoted for one is me indicating that I'm partially undecided about you <_<

Like I've tried to communicate, my read on you amounts to "scummy but I don't trust myself to read you accurately".

Where is the sorting? There are 54 mentions of "morph" in your ISO and none of them strike me as particularly sort-y. What posts am I misreading?

And worse, there are 54 mentions of "morph" in your iso, and not one of them is actually geared at sorting us. Maybe I'm missing something?

Partially this is fair criticism and I'd chalk it down to me just playing this game in a way that isn't particularly focused, in general.

But also partially... this is

incredibly

uncharitable. My empty vote on you was the start of an attempt to sort. 462 is to sort you. 520 is to try to get a baseline of how to think about your play. 530 is trying to interact with you and you (temporarily) refusing. 632 is me floating something of yours I thought was scummy to see what others think. This is all literally in the first 1/3 of those 54 mentions.

"Not one of them is geared toward sorting you" is, tbh, insulting in its hyperbolicity.

[morph the cat]

This was referring to my caution/fear toward GL - it's interesting that you were curious how this had manifested since then, and then you later on were surprised that I was willing to wagon GL. I feel like you should be able to draw that connection if you were specifically looking for it.

Yeah you were but I'm still not really clear on the why. It's probably because I can't seem to drag my focus away from your trajectory on us.

[morph the cat]

But also partially... this is incredibly uncharitable. My empty vote on you was the start of an attempt to sort. 462 is to sort you. 520 is to try to get a baseline of how to think about your play. 530 is trying to interact with you and you (temporarily) refusing. 632 is me floating something of yours I thought was scummy to see what others think. This is all literally in the first 1/3 of those 54 mentions.

"Not one of them is geared toward sorting you" is, tbh, insulting in its hyperbolicity.

I don't see anything where I feel like you've tried to figure out my mindset or ask me ~questions~ about my stances. Maybe we go about sorting so differently?

[morph the cat]

This is an interesting one because half of my answer is I have no real idea why I thought it based on those two posts, and the other half is that I strongly suspect I just felt the need to say something of content in that post. The reason for this is that that post marked the end of my breadcrumb (hence it starting with "Anyway.") and I think I just wanted to say something else in it and I probably thought either her quick read on Amazons or her first post were townish. I feel comfortable saying this because my breadcrumb is so obscured that I don't think it's possible to figure out even knowing where it is.

We like this. I think ~I~ like it better than anything you've posted so far.