Open 854 | Eurybia's Curse | Game Over!

[Faker]

UNVOTE:

Hey everyone, I don't really intend to reread unless I get bored one day or become particularly determined to root something out.

I see a VT flip Day 1 and I am down to hear a brief tl;dr on who I should vote. I've got a loose grasp on the setup. I'm around to chat for a bit.

[Faker]

Unfortunately, yeah.

[Faker]

This page has something from GuiltyLion about a Pav/Faker team. It is not a Pav/Faker team. You're voting Pavowski-do you also subscribe to that school of thought?

[Faker]

Legitimately I will never understand anyone who misreads Gamma Emerald in a game, but I've seen it happen.

[Faker]

I really struggle to buy into 2598, and (lovingly) Isis has some occasional off-the-wall ideas about qualitative play that run completely counter to and undermine the foundational advantage of townplay.

[Faker]

(And i have little confidence in my ability to confidentally read u, maybe i'll just outsource to ari idk)

I don't think outsourcing a read on me to anyone is a good idea, at least not as far as I've seen onsite.

It might be harder, but I imagine it is significantly more accurate to just meta Gamma.

[Faker]

If apathy is such a major issue I can comb back through I guess, though I was hoping to serve more as a placefiller until I got a more solid ground.

I am one vote so if everyone actually bought into the kingmaker idea then shrug, okay.

[Faker]

Alright alright I'll do some actual reading for an hour or two,

This Side of Paradise

can wait for awhile.

[Faker]

From these descriptions, my only question is: what otherwordly paradise did I just volunteer to jump into? Fifth circle?

Wedged in the slime, they say: ‘We had been sullen
in the sweet air that’s gladdened by the sun;
we bore the mist of sluggishness in us:

now we are bitter in the blackened mud.’
This hymn they have to gurgle in their gullets,
because they cannot speak it in full words.”

[Faker]

I mean >.>
We know that ari reads u better than i do

You're a lot more confident than I am, suit yourself!

[Faker]

Not particularly impressed skimming through the marcistar ISO; one liners and long periods of low-interest in votes and moves. I was hoping for a bit more depth.

I liked 1520, a post frustrated about Fruit's (supposedly hypocritical) accusation of filler. She takes a very sharp and self-assured tone, and I think is more likely to come from her only when she really wants to be seen as pushing for a vote. Her immediate next vote makes it clear she's not.

I'd slot her as town for those two posts in sequence, but not a ton of confidence.

[Faker]

I really am trying to move away from meta, and would rather make a marked return to fundamentals, but without backreading that's going to be very hard. I'm combing through people I think I can get some meta tab on just as a stopgap.

[Faker]

I liked 1520, a post frustrated about Fruit's (supposedly hypocritical) accusation of filler. She takes a very sharp and self-assured tone, and I think is more likely to come from her only when she really wants to be seen as pushing for a vote. Her immediate next

vote

post makes it clear she's not.

EBWOP

[Faker]

I'd slot her as town for those two posts in sequence, but not a ton of confidence.

now you just have to get to a similar conclusion on one more of your choice of {fruit, pav} while scumreading the other and you'll be in the same boat as the rest of us

LMAO

F

[Faker]

Howdy, I see you got overwhelmed by all these degenerate spammers.

I hate 'em too, especially the tiger. Not that one, the other one. Yes, that tiger.

[Faker]

It was to you (Fruit), but it was just a joke as I was skimming through your early ISO and saw you struggling with the pace and frequent off-topic posts of the game.

Looking at your ISO, I'm a bit confused by this sequence:

actually how about this
VOTE: the ugly fruit
hasn't done much but what he has done, I'm not a big fan of

Did Gamma say what stuff was done in particular that they didn't like that I did?

since when is "this person isnt interacting with a lot of people" a good reason to not flip them

I get Gamma's reasons, assuming they're town, but also it's flawed in that the reason afterwards is too vague for a Costing mafia accusation

These are one post and ~2 minutes apart. What did you get about Gamma's reasons in the second that you didn't in the first? Is this a matter of understanding the general "hasn't done much" coasting accusation but wanting specifics, or was it something else?

[Faker]

Overall skimming Fruit I'm not inclined to vote there at the moment. Are the only real viable alternatives myself and Pavowski?

I liked the parry without a push on Gamma, and I liked the initial progression and skepticism of skitter in 528 and 529.

The reaction around the fear of hammers/votes is also really good IMO, with the only exception being a late post about the Gamma wagon dissipating, where Fruit didn't really step in until afterwards. This is vague bullshit from me but I also like their weird attitude towards marcistar (I know they are familiar) and late vote on her.

[Faker]

Chat mafia players are criminally underrated, so maybe I'm making the same categorical mistake a million people initially made on me, but shrug. Just trying to get footing and serve as an efficient stopgap.

[Faker]

Well Once Gamma said that it felt like I was just submitting filler I understood it to some degree, honestly Looking back I still didn't understand. it's especially nonsensical when Im told to disprove someone acusing me of making Filler, and that Im actully just putting on a front like How am I supposed to react to that

I think "filler" would have been a very bad description for your ISO, even though some lost/coasting accusation would be justified. We also tend to remember our concrete contributions more than our listless ones, but to other people they usually take up the same space on the mind and page.

Makes sense to me, we also tend to remember our concrete contributions more than our listless ones, but to other people they usually take up the same space on the mind and page. Thanks for answering.

[Faker]

It is now 7:55pm. I got to the airport at 6pm for a 8:30pm flight. After i got to the airport, the following has happened, in order (and i got informed via app, it was impossible to speak to an agent):
- flight got cancelled
- they rebooked me on a flight leaving at 4:30
- that flight got delayed to 10:05

Get, and I truly cannot emphasize this enough, absolutely WRECKED lmao

[Faker]

100% shitpost theory:

-The game is miserable, everyone hates it
-100+ pages of treading heavy water
-the worst posts the occasional lighthearted oneliners while everyone else shoulders the major brunt of the work
-Everyone but the worst losing their goddamn minds

I have seen this story before, I have seen it a million times. He is scum.

[Faker]

the worst scumrolls are the mafia equivalent of a "Luigi does nothing and wins" playlist.

This man perpetually finds himself in situations where the town are poring over each other's elementary school disciplinary records, clawing through rain-soaked garbage bags stolen in the middle of the night in search of each other's discarded receipts, going on massive 24 hour reading benders. Meanwhile the worst turns off his computer and sits his scum ass in a nice lawn chair munching on blueberries all day and comes back to a big fat W.

[Faker]

Oh if he left that's a townroll okay we're saved

[Faker]

ARI AGAIN, ARE YOU FOR REAL

THREE TIMES

BRUH LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Faker]

Alright it's probably best not to revisit it I'll move on after this but THREE TIMES

BRUH

I TOLD YOU DOG, I TOLD YOU BOTH OF THE LAST TIMES

[Faker]

I'm talking about the interaction Aristeia had with the worst, it's mean of me to revisit it though.

I wasn't calling you scum, I had a joking shitpost theory about the worst (now Coral) being scum because of the malaise of the game but I didn't really read his posts. I was 100% joking.

[Faker]

Just noted down that Worst got replaced by Coral

Good night everybody

Do you think this has any bearing on alignment? I think the earlier posts to me make it appear legitimate, though it is tempting to work back through the post-worst ISO to doublecheck.

[Faker]

But there's a large-ish group of players (gamma/you, marci, tuf, pav, beat yestersay) that are surface-level scummy

I have not read a word of Gamma's posting but this smells like garbage.

Since I know you know that I can be aggressive in wording without intending it personally, I'll take the liberty: After skimming marci/Fruit I think this surface-level scummy claim and grouping is absolutely disgusting.

[Faker]

I considered holding off to see how you'd react to my replace-in and initial reads, but it feels like you're mostly standing pat and waiting to see if you have to go aggressive. I could probably get more out of it, but hiding my cards isn't my favorite and I'd rather pre-emptively nip something like that in the bud.

[Faker]

Depends on the situation, last time I replaced into a game that was mostly under her control she didn't have a great time...though

my

replacement in turn wound up posing 5x the issue I did.

I also tend to have her in nullscum at all times so shrug.

I'm about to head out for the night, I own a flip phone so I can't read on this long ass car ride anymore.

I'm not confident in my ability to read Pavowski but that can be my next project. After that I'd probably read Meuh. I'm really curious if myself, Pav, and Fruit are really the only options because I don't buy two of those at a minimum.

[Faker]

I still feel like that weighed in very little on Gamma. Perhaps there's more in your ISO for me to read, but you were noticeably silent on my point that reading Gamma is more reliable than reading me at basically any point in the game. You should be fairly familiar with his meta and play; surface-level scummy isn't a surprise for people who haven't played with him before. It's straightforward to exploit that trait as scum.

Either way, will circle back later, dinnertime then car ride.

[Faker]

I am extremely sleep deprived but while I wait for a wasp to leave my bed I might as well post.

Can someone lay out the general reasoning on Pav? A link to any writeup/real post is also okay with me, doesn't have to be a full case wall.

[Faker]

Sorry for asking a lot, too.

[Faker]

Skimming through Coral, I found a quote talking about a disproportionate reaction from Gamma that had me loling. At that point I then went back to page 106, where I realized I missed all the Fruit posts about the PT/heal. This is some much needed hilarity.

I am still tired and I don't think I am ever going to find this wasp that I know is there in my bed somewhere just waiting but at least I have page 106 to keep me comfortable.

Thank you for listening.

[Faker]

It is now well past anything that could resemble a socially acceptable time to sleep.

However, the

Vespula squamosa

randomly flew out of my bedsheets and landed on my arm. I flailed in a fashion similar to the time catboi tripped and accidentally opened the curtain, exposing him to his first glimpse of sunlight since 2003. Magically, much like the sun that day, the yellowjacket did not actually sting, but I lost track of it again before I could kill it.

I have set up a light (which they are attracted to) at the other end of the room as a distraction. Time to sleep.

Hype to play this game instead of oversharing boring minutiae one day, night everyone!

[Faker]

did u have a flipphone

I literally still have a flip phone

Again would like to see something about Pav, very tired still but will try to skim his ISO.

[Faker]

Pavowski has literally not done a goddamn thing but get high as a kite and go "...Marci and Fruit, man, am I right?"

I don't like to reward doing that but holy guacamole if I were his scum partner I would throw him out the fuckin window I think he's chill for the day

P-Edit: Will read that in a sec then respond

[Faker]

By "throw him out the fuckin window" I mean of his house, if it's 1-story rinse and repeat until Results Are Achieved, not that I'd bus him lmao

Just thinking how for me, that scum PT would be filled with every diplomatic non-threatening variant of "MOTHERFUCKER IF YOU GIVE THEM FIVE FULLCLEARS BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO HIGH TO POST ONE GODDAMN READSWALL" imaginable

[Faker]

Tracking through, I'm not sure 1/2 really say much about Pavowski's alignment, or at least not what I've seen of it. Unlike most of this den of masochists, he really takes a lighthearted approach and tries to enjoy the game. I skimmed two games he played that I modded (Guardians/Trust Fall) and saw a bit more substantial commentary in the first. I will say that I remember him being afraid to post for stretches of Trust Fall as scum, so maybe he's facing a similar issue this game and he's getting zonked out on Copium.

#3 it was hard for me to really gauge how believable this was without reading all of end of day. Maybe!

#4 I was actually okay with missing it but not following up on that "here it is" response you gave at all is very ??? bad

I'm back to ~maybe~

[Faker]

I have read about ~20 posts of Cakez's ISO and already I don't understand how we have not fulfilled one of the most timehonored of MafiaScum traditions of running Cakez up and watching him flip green

There is one exception to "Look past the surface-level scummy", even the green name can't help him, the man is a born dayplay miller.

[Faker]

VOTE: Cakez



Presumably this isn't viable at all and is a vanity vote but this is the first slot I've read that I legitimately don't like so far.

155 is a pretty safe accusation, overqualification w/ "replicate town meta" makes it awkward to me

795 is a very strange performative "Hey guys look at me spitballing townreads"

232 on skitter-read is lol

329 is more performative garbage, "I have a hot take"

590 you can see Cakez is truly displeased at a worst wagon

The hot take is TvT oh buddy I have not seen that before and there is SO much town utility in this being a half-hidden take instead of a full holdoff or a full discussion

Finally I'm going to quote this last bit:

why meuh town?

humour me too why do you townread GL?

Cuz GL coming in to question the Gamma wagon was town regardless of Gammas alignment and I liked that Meuh went to bat over it with GL when they could have let it go

However I still just think Gamma is scum and have no idea why that wagon collapsed

This followup is within a minute, this is scum realizing there's a gap in their reasoning to be addressed and tagging it on before they get called out.

I haven't even gotten halfway through his ISO just YEET THIS MAN

I'd go something like:

Kinda Town
=====
Fruit
marcistar
Coral (I don't remember why it was 5/6 am don't ask)

????
=====
Pavowski

Scum
=====
No one

Cakez, beyond scum, destiny beckons, eternal recurrence
======
SirCakez

[Faker]

I will finish his ISO in a bit, but I have seen all I need to, wheel him away IMO, or let him escape tonight and gimme that sweet, sweet towncred

What if I told you that if you gave into your worst instincts, shoveled the Cake in front of you instead of remembering your diet, instead of gaining 5 lbs you'd gain 5 clears?

[Faker]

By "throw him out the fuckin window" I mean of his house, if it's 1-story rinse and repeat until Results Are Achieved, not that I'd bus him lmao

Just thinking how for me, that scum PT would be filled with every diplomatic non-threatening variant of "MOTHERFUCKER IF YOU GIVE THEM FIVE FULLCLEARS BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO HIGH TO POST ONE GODDAMN READSWALL" imaginable

Did you know that there is an English word simu for "throw someone outside a window"? It's "defenestrate".

yeah but i'm not a PRETENTIOUS DORK

[Faker]

This is from another game but it's still relevant today

An atavistic urge has awakened in my veins. The blood is pumping violently, a burning sensation spreads up the arms, a paroxysmal wave crashes through this mortal body and I write in the forces of violent malice.

It calls me to vote Cakez out, to pound the ground with my bare knuckles around the fire and watch his blood run down the stake a verdant green before evaporating in the flames, the same color it always is. It calls me to bear witness just as my ancestors before me did so many years ago.

This game Cakez was in fact town, but also it's destiny and I feel legitimately strong about it instead of shitposting haflstrength.

[Faker]

Pav, were you at all interested in the case (marcistar on Isis) you were linked after you requested it?

[Faker]

meuh whatchu thinkin' champ

[Faker]

Intent to hammer by midnight EST if Pav doesn't show up btw, I think Coral is leaning that way already but I'd really like more from The Dude.

Online earlier and didn't respond to my callout question, which I am interpreting as THE FROZEN ONE

[Faker]

Once upon a time I would have followed Queen Isis unquestionably, but after that time she sent me to 4 different restaurants when we met up IRL I'm skeptical of her directions

[Faker]

232 I didn't like because it was very early and one of the mindmelds as far as I could tell was a vote on Isis. I don't know every intricacy of the Cakez/skitter history but you generally don't want to get on the wrong side of the tiger if you don't know what you're doing.

590 the implication of my statement was not that Coral was scum, the implication was that he wasn't actually frustrated or cared much about the wagon on the slot. I thought it simple whiteknighting.

I haven't read Titus at all and trying to read her is always random for me, I think the only time I had any success was in Warehouse-13 back in 2020. It took me a ridiculous amount of time, effort, and help of good reads elsewhere to do so.

[Faker]

(Being good at reading skitter overall does not necessarily mean being confident in calling her alignment out of the gate, but maybe!)

[Faker]

While I hate to spam, I did notice earlier that weird stopgap reasoning from Cakez was actually expounding on the previous post of 595, 597 is adjacent but there's no real gap with just that one.

FMPOV my opinion is unchanged but it's nice to be rigorous and it does change the timing+it is important to know what the actual gap was.

[Faker]

Why are we this close to a Hammer!? Someone get off rn

The game is slowed down completely. Many of the players would like a flip.

Is there a slot in particular you want to talk about, or do you generally object to an elim on Pavowski? I see you are voting marcistar, if you want to talk about her more.

[Faker]

has faker posted a read of me yet?

No, though I (mechanically and qualitatively) hated the mechanical sequence starting with 2484.

[Faker]

I was interested to hear it from Marci, but I haven't really scumread Isis very much and my reads are purely academic at this point

Why am I still alive?

It literally was from marcistar dude. Be academic and check the citation:

Spoiler:

theres been some posts where shes started out vaguely game related, but then it turns into word vomit.
i dont really like that sort of stuff, since it seems distracting from the point but shes done it more than once it seems a bit like a personality thing

i feel like shes a possible partner to a couple people.

i feel like theres been times where... she only really thinks things as it becomes a semitalked about topic.

keeps repeating the same point "red flips arent that bad" i feel like once is enough but its just filling more space and faking the busyness the more and more its said

I feel like Cakez has too many reads that all dropped at once, feels more like press releases from a PR team than a solo journalist you dig

very much a read dropped and then forgotten about until her update of "i dont think that anymore" but like ?? amazing progression on that is shown where? it feels like a very back of the mind read

1080 was pretty weird timing for that read on gamma

i didnt like her hammer on beat

1533 with 1540 afterwards feels weird

1630 1648 i dont like what shes done with those reads after shes posted
like "i think gamma has teammates" seems pretty confident of a read, but settles for beat? IDK

1839 just the way she phrases things
like "nO wAy I cAnT eLiM wHo I wAnT sO i'Ll GiVe Up AnD gO fOr ThIs InStEaD" like at that point she seemed fairly confident on her skitter read so why not go for what ur heart wants
i think usually townies like to think they'll always be right, and like to push people they super believe in being scum, so i dont get why she keeps rolling over.

- -

im not good at this stuff im sorry its mostly just vibes and then i went to try and find the vibes and then tried to explain why i had the vibes but idk if this is exactly what ive been meaning
just say its vibes and thats it

[Faker]

Faker could be scum doing due diligence then hammering this

??? What the hell does this even mean, just trying to force out towntells before a flip?

[Faker]

You didn't want to iso me before lending me your hammer for the leash thing? Like as either alignment you could not join the process without being scummy, but as the town alignment I'd expect you to care what I am

I'm not threatening to hammer Pav because of you whatsoever. I have openly rejected the leash suggestion repeatedly and my intent to hammer was explicitly my own reasoning with zero mention of you.

Your relevance to it is you are a reason he has 6 votes.

[Faker]

I really don't know why people are doing wagonomics pre-flip. I've never understood it in 12 years, and I probably never will, not even in another 12.

[Faker]

quote was unintentional and yet managed to be relevant anyway

I understand the concrete mechanical suggestion now, thank you.

VOTE: Pavowski

[Faker]

[Faker]

Shame I won't really get to play this after Coalition but c'est la vie.

My only request is that when skitter encounters misfortune, someone remind her she deserves it.

[Faker]

I do wonder what Pavowski is, yes...

[Faker]

I am now willing to do a GTKAFaker until the Ydrasse lock, if anyone wants.

[Faker]

catboi & petapan

[Faker]

Reason for my troll wasn't actually to reaction test pre-flip, but to reaction test at the start of day based off of how thrown off players were in their solves when I didn't escape.

[Faker]

Interesting that marcistar was left out; summary from others seemed to suggest she was town.

Wasn't exactly thrilled with Coral's EOD but not actively terrible. Excited to punish scum for not clearing me.

[Faker]

Pavowski has literally not done a goddamn thing but get high as a kite and go "...Marci and Fruit, man, am I right?"

This makes me suspect Pavowski was S/S, perhaps this is giving too much credit but scum has to set up for the flips of escaping scum members. It wouldn't surprise me if this was S/T and with Fruit cleared and (FMPOV) marcistar unexpectedly uncleared the straightforward answer is that she's likely scum.

VOTE: marcistar

[Faker]

That first part of the first sentence made no fucking sense and I don't know what I was even trying to type, but hopefully you get the idea from the second part down.

[Faker]

I explicitly flagged the fact that Pavowski freezes up as scum and called him on it directly.

Bussing when required is one thing but after the specific way it happened, go back to the drawing board, that's a fucking disgusting vote.

[Faker]

Pav, were you at all interested in the case (marcistar on Isis) you were linked after you requested it?

This post was made after he was explicitly shown as online. The intent was to see if he could show up immediately or if he would pretend to be gone/put it off out of fear. The specific question comes from 2589.

Intent to hammer by midnight EST if Pav doesn't show up btw, I think Coral is leaning that way already but I'd really like more from The Dude.

Online earlier and didn't respond to my callout question, which I am interpreting as THE FROZEN ONE

He failed with flying colors.

[Faker]

Not 100% sold on the marcistar scum since I still haven't reread, and am mostly just reactionary spitballing.

That said I might have to wait until postgame to see you flip green, tragic the way life denies us our greatest pleasures.

[Faker]

I explicitly flagged the fact that Pavowski freezes up as scum and called him on it directly.

Bussing when required is one thing but after the specific way it happened, go back to the drawing board, that's a fucking disgusting vote.

I'm not sure what your point is, he was close to inevitable when you did that

I take it back, outsource the read to Aristeia, she has never misread me in a game.

[Faker]

I'm mostly just assuming skitter is town given second vote, not actually sure how much of an advocate/driver she was.

[Faker]

Excited to punish scum for not clearing me.

Wat

search.php?keywords=punish&terms=all&au ... mit=Search

[Faker]

2956

@faker what is the point of this post?

If you can give me even the closest guess as to what my argument is I will respond but right now I don't think you've even tried to read it.

[Faker]

I still think marci is town tbh

Nothing like not reading the game then opening the day pushing my strongest townread for WIFOM.

This isn't Lake Melancholia, as scum I am playing for keeps not for parlor tricking garbage.

[Faker]

also good chance he might quit mafia tbh lol

Am I wrong to assume whatever role skitter played in the Pavowski vote is clearing?

Perpetual MELO she was very disinclined to bus; the mechanic in this game is similar.

[Faker]

[2] The Ugly Fruit: Pavowski, marcistar

Yeah lol

VOTE: marci

Tgtbt though?

Maybe but scum literally doesn't have an option to clear themselves if they're townread.

If I'm wrong and she wasn't a universal townread then OK, there goes my theory, but when I came back with it everyone intimated it was common and shared.

[Faker]

skitter generally has perpetual fear that makes her elimmable, also depending on how good her reads are you don't want her cleared (I say that, yet here we are...)

Not generally true of Coral as an alt, and Coral's reaction to my scumclaim was very rote play-along to the reaction test rather than someone who was watching their scumread vote escape while everyone else voted wrong.

[Faker]

In the event anyone actually thinks I made a mechanical error and thought I could escape as scum, I will gladly take the collective L and let them be ashamed of themselves.

[Faker]

No need, I am very confident that is the only theory that is not completely terrible as the counter requires meta knowledge.

[Faker]

That is indeed exactly what happened, too bad.

[Faker]

Not worth dialoguing about, waiting for skitter to read or other players to check in.

[Faker]

You seem to be arguing that these two posts are evidence of you being disaligned with pav

I'm saying this is ridiculous because at that point pav was looking p likely and scum-you is incentivized to bus, so why shouod this be clearing

It is not explicitly clearing if that is your concern. It is merely a reason that can be waived away if you really want.

I don't think there ground to be had here so I will suggest a different approach.

viewtopic.php?t=89546&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

[Faker]

Not worth dialoguing about, waiting for skitter to read or other players to check in.

Explaining your thought process further so that I may understand if it is legit seems worthwhile to me

There is virtually nothing else to explain.

The only world where you would think that specific reaction test (at the start of day, after you didn't escape) would pay dividends is a world where Pav is town, and a different scum escapes.

I don't believe that you genuinely figured out that Pav was mechanically near confscum at eod, and thus chose to hammer after having that realization, while also believing that you were doing a reaction test that would only come into play if Pav was town.

If we want to be pedantic "Mechanically near confscum" is too strong of a statement, "Matching scum Trust Fall meta and likely frozen" is more accurate.

If it is particularly important, I also did know exactly what 2921 was saying well in advance, I was referring to a smattering of speculation as wagonomics but the discussion about the implication of this mechanic was one of them. Blitzing with no pressing need is situationally dependent.

The test was thought of and decided on the moment I saw the post, with virtually zero thinking required because it is neither rocket science nor particularly elaborate.

[Faker]

Something you seem to believe is that the fact no one had in fact blitzed Pavowski was a factor in my hammer. It was not even remotely a factor in my actual hammer.

[Faker]

rather than someone who was watching their scumread vote escape while everyone else voted wrong.

I don't know why you would think this would be what I thought was happening. Pav was almost certainly scum after being left at E-1 for that long.

Probably because I openly claimed scum and blitzed Pavowski the second you explained a blitz mechanic to me.

[Faker]

Soooo what was the point of 2956, as i asked originally ?

It is merely a

reason

legitimate progression that can be waived away if you really want.

[Faker]

Something you seem to believe is that the fact no one had in fact blitzed Pavowski was a factor in my hammer. It was not even remotely a factor in my actual hammer.

Why did u hammer then

...Are you sure that you read 2956?

He failed and after I threatened a hammer to drag content out of him he made an anti-spew stall post.

[Faker]

I also was just sick and tired of reading the wagonomics, so that was also a factor in the exact timing. Coral giving me the troll opportunity was accidentally giving me the loaded gun.

[Faker]

I fail to see why i should townread u for that progression

Well, in that case:

It is not explicitly clearing if that is your concern. It is merely a reason that can be waived away if you really want.

I don't think there ground to be had here so I will suggest a different approach.

viewtopic.php?t=89546&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

[Faker]

I also was just sick and tired of reading the wagonomics, so that was also a factor in the exact timing. Coral giving me the troll opportunity was accidentally giving me the loaded gun.

How confident would you say you were in Pav being scum?

I wasn't, and I don't like numbers.

[Faker]

I was ~nulltown on gamma but i think u've been scummy thus far

As far as I can tell you have given absolutely zero reason to find my play scummy, and have repeatedly stated a lack of confidence in ability to read me.

It is very unclear why you think my slot is scum given the Gamma-nulltown read.

I can speculate several, but I don't like to speculate, and I should perhaps repeat something: This is not Lake Melancholia where I believed the game was lost on Page 1. I do not play parlor tricking trash as scum in a game where I can 80%+ easily strongarm out a win playing standard.

[Faker]

I do not play parlor tricking trash as scum in a game where I can 80%+ easily strongarm out a win playing standard.

And jesus christ if I am doing so I am not linking Gamma Emerald's ISO ever, I am finding the biggest rug I can to throw over that black hole and hoping people forget that it ever existed

[Faker]

I considered disputing the word choice, but in my mind doing so

was

pedantic. Your issue was that it wasn't believable that I could think of that reaction test while simultaneously deciding Pav was likely scum and hammering him. When I realized it was important to you, this was when I explicitly elaborated on the mechanical side of the claim.

I don't really see the issue here. I think my posts make clear what the qualitative issues I'm claiming I saw were, and the record is there backing it up.

[Faker]

80% strongarm a win with pav as a partner seems weird take

This setup is ideal for how I play scum. It would take not one but two deadbeats to lose it.

[Faker]

I'd think back to your experience with me hydraing in Scumsman. The episode you probably remember is my coaching about exactly to get townread by Alyssa, who I had never played with before, but there are other episodes you probably don't remember: Coaching Pine and instructing him exactly how to structure posts/pushes, fleet footwork regarding Farkran, who I had never seen play town, resulting in an unshakeable townread on our slot. My primary concern was that we were mechanically lost via Pine's insistence on playing Warcraft in conjunction with the timebomb on the Imperium claim, as our role made it impossible to fakeclaim. I also did not really play much or take any interest when I was townread without trying.

Justified or not, it is a fact that I have near-total faith in my scumgame. While I try to get my partners to be confident in themselves and make strides on their own, if the game is at stake I will do everything short of logging in and making the post for them when they fail to do so. There is a very extensive record of Notes/Scum PTs backing this claim up.

[Faker]

Perhaps I should be honored rather than repulsed that people think I would use my partner's online status to ensnare him in the bus, rather than just seeing him post in the Scum PT and working with him directly to accomplish something or another.

Note that 1 hour later, I asked Meuh a question for exactly the same reason of seeing her online:

meuh whatchu thinkin' champ

[Faker]

so my question here for marci scumreaders, why do you think scum!marci clears two of the people most likely to vote her, instead of skitter or Meuh?

I do not have sufficient context or knowledge of Day 1/2 to answer this.

My vote is far from committal and is a purely reactionary spitball to what my impression was of how universal a townread she was based on secondhand description Day 2. What I remember of her dayplay was even +town. I am likely to hit the drawing board again or review later given that Isis seems to think it was not universal.

[7]

Beat

:

Titus

, Meuh,

GuiltyLion

, marcistar, Gamma Emerald,

Aristeia

,

Isis

how many scum do we think are on wagon here? 1? 2? who is the townie in the uncleared folks?

I don't do VCA, particularly again when lacking any information about the dayplay involved.

I'm not saying my refusal to weigh in on these is supposed to be town-indicative or readily accepted without pushback, to be clear.

[Faker]

I read some marcistar posts around the 90 page range after getting linked it from the above. Sure.

UNVOTE:

I should probably look at Aristeia's real points but I've read mafia all day so shrug. Time to make catboi proud and watch some anime for a bit.

steph curry went 0/9 from three point land in game 5 and the warriors still won

Hell yeah we did.

[Faker]

Thinking on it some more the whole "Make the case [on Isis] and I'll follow you" [to marcistar] then interacting with it literally 0 is probably +town for marcistar as well

[Faker]

Ehhhh skimming again I don't think the above theory makes a lot of sense

2tired should sleep turn brain off

[Faker]

wrt faker: 2950 (that seems like a weird thought for someone town to have)

You have literally seen me do something nearly identical as town. What the fuck are you talking about?

dislike that she started pushing marci out of the gate (which is probably one of the easier flips to get ...), esp. since her initial read on her was 'town with not a lot of confidence' (2692) , and has her as 'kinda town' in 2891
and then after i voted her 2695 and 2696 were pre-emptively defensive / trying to demonstrate how she's not a pav partner when nobody had really brought that up
(also kinda similar to what meuh is trying to do in 3089

"Pre-emptively defensive" to a vote on me. The vote on me it is implied I am partners with Pavowski. While I could switch on a dime if desired, it is also not like I completely forgot a faked read on marcistar overnight.

These are specific counters but holistically it is again bizarre to me that after openly admitting you have no idea how to read me that you ignore the Gamma nulltown points. I am also physically incapable of understanding how you do not discern the difference between parlor tricking trash and seriously playing to win.

[Faker]

Isis it took me a bit to piece together context but off those posts alone not really, 2041 seemed to be about you being town and the VC before had no votes on Pavowski. First vote on a partner is low-stakes, I can qualitatively dig deeper later.

I thought the reasoning was ~fine~ but have not seen scum Meuh in a long time.

[Faker]

That didnt even occur to me but if that was the thought process that would point towards faker imo

This is the mental breaking point for me. Nothing you have described this game is anywhere even remotely close to the realm of how I think the scum alignment should be played.

[Faker]

why is marci your pick for who is scum out of the unconfirmed group?

Pavowski has literally not done a goddamn thing but get high as a kite and go "...Marci and Fruit, man, am I right?"

This makes me suspect Pavowski was S/S, perhaps this is giving too much credit but scum has to set up for the flips of escaping scum members. It wouldn't surprise me if this was S/T and with Fruit cleared and (FMPOV) marcistar unexpectedly uncleared the straightforward answer is that she's likely scum.

VOTE: marcistar

That first part of the first sentence made no fucking sense and I don't know what I was even trying to type, but hopefully you get the idea from the second part down.

so my question here for marci scumreaders, why do you think scum!marci clears two of the people most likely to vote her, instead of skitter or Meuh?

I do not have sufficient context or knowledge of Day 1/2 to answer this.

My vote is far from committal and is a purely reactionary spitball to what my impression was of how universal a townread she was based on secondhand description Day 2. What I remember of her dayplay was even +town. I am likely to hit the drawing board again or review later given that Isis seems to think it was not universal.

[Faker]

BONUS QUOTE

I read some marcistar posts around the 90 page range after getting linked it from the above. Sure.

UNVOTE:

[Faker]

I will keep these questions in mind when making my next vote, particularly if I am considering placing it on marcistar.

[Faker]

Heads up I spent all day yesterday staring at MafiaScum.net, and I'd like to do something else today.

I'll probably just take the L and work back through the game from scratch with a particular eye towards interactions either later tonight or starting tomorrow.

[Faker]

Skitter what do you think about faker's emphasis on her own range atm

It might not be useful but I do feel compelled to note the difference between "I am too strong/not strong enough to do X" and "This suggestion of yours goes against every conception I have of how to play the alignment and I don't consider it even for a second, much in the same way that I don't consider randomly wrenching the handlebars while riding a bicycle" and skitter's suggestions frequently fall in the latter with impressive consistency.

[Faker]

lol

[Faker]

I'm not. I used it to ask what changed, because she didn't describe or acknowledge a change until two different people asked.

She can go read the Gamma ISO and come away with a scumread from it if she wants, I might object to the reasoning but I'm not trying to keep her read on it in stasis. I've linked it to her repeatedly.

I don't leash myself to Gamma Emerald's posting ever because I strongly believe that he literally does not know how to play the game. I have a 5 year record of believing this, and skitter witnessed it firsthand in Slaughter Hour.

[Faker]

i mean i learned my lesson well. would like to hear how you think i'm misunderstanding your scum meta here

(also if ur scum ur p obviously starting to set me up as a flip, just noting that i see that)

I will let the postgame speak for itself for the first. The second is not viable in any given partner world.

[Faker]

I don't leash myself to Gamma Emerald's posting ever because I strongly believe that he literally does not know how to play the game. I have a 5 year record of believing this, and skitter witnessed it firsthand in Slaughter Hour.

For further context, in something like 9/10 games of opposing alignments, I had a 100% record on reading Gamma

on Day 1

and a 100% record on getting him to townread me as scum.

His scum posting was so bad in one Micro that it instantly flipped my read on my (wrong) strongest TR to my strongest SR, which won the game outright. I flagged for him that he had a bad habit of putting his entire mafiateam in the scumpile across a good 4/5 games and he proceeded to do it again for another two. In Slaughter Hour, he had to force me out of the game and make a public display of breaking the "No outside communication" rule to salvage his slot.

People misread him, it does happen, and I especially know that some people unfamiliar with him get baited by his tone into miselimming him. Do I ever in a million years count on players reading scum-Gamma as town? Not in a million years.

[Faker]

[Faker]

Faker what do you think skitter is

I do not know and do not thinking finding out is a priority.

[Faker]

Damn, I missed that part of the setup.

The implication is that I think it is a better use of my time to revisit the game from scratch, with a particular eye for interactions, as alluded to in 3154. I know that waiting for that can be annoying.

I am more confident in my ability to read marcistar/Meuh than I am guessing whether or not skitter's persistent oversights & obtuse assertions are in bad faith. Half of me cutting that dialogue off was because I thought it would do the rest of the table zero good to hear me continue waxing on a great ode to myself, the other half because I thought it offered my own perspective zero value.

[Faker]

Perhaps I should be a little bit more tactful and less acerbic.

I can play 20 questions all day as scum. I'm a chat mafia player who excels at real-time spitballing, tonal blitzing/strongarming, and this is especially true when I am functionally unconstrained by prior events. I also do not mind being dismissed as an ineffectual voice as scum by virtue of my own ignorance.

In contrast, as town I absolutely hate that shit, I hate nonsensical circlerunning in the vein of the skitter argument, and you're both getting acerbic reactions and stonewalling because of it. I don't like splitting my attention, I don't like rehashing variants of things I've said ten times before, I don't enjoy making a sixth restatement or quoting repeatedly, and I rapidly get very annoyed.

In your mind perhaps you think pressuring me to interact with what is immediately on the page is liable to force something out of me as scum, or think that I would provide more reads of value as town if you prodded me more.

If either of those are in your thinking, you should know that both of these are flat-out untrue. If you're impatient go pressure one of the other slots, I don't want to read today and if I get tilted out of my mind at you and skitter I'm not going to want to tomorrow either.

[Faker]

I'm still going to read if I have time tomorrow but I'm also fine getting carried this game.

I think marci's last set of posts+the ones I looked at earlier weren't too nervous or selfconscious. Claiming to not know the elim pool isn't rocket science but I liked it. This post at me/skitter was bold.

[Faker]

It'd be great and flashy and all if I could read and make a real contribution, but as was the case with Pavowski the bar doesn't need to be that high. Don't actively play like shit and just win the game.

[Faker]

I'm just gonna say that i'm entirely baffled how people think

Well well well...How the turn tables....

[Faker]

I didn't think it was fair at all. What a diplomatic tiger we have today.

[Faker]

Anyway I'm feeling pretty decent today so should be able to tackle stuff. I tend to wither quickly in tonal banter garbage but I'll try it. Worst case scenario I just start from the beginning of Day 2.

[Faker]

While that's a separate object weighing in my favor, your principal point was that my bipartite interest of trolling and reaction testing seemed implausible.

Have you seen me do anything that enforces this is plausible town-Faker behavior?

[Faker]

i didn't like faker's entrance but when i thought abt it some more i changed my mind / am unsure if it's scum-indicative for her

wrt faker: 2950 (that seems like a weird thought for someone town to have)
dislike that she started pushing marci out of the gate (which is probably one of the easier flips to get ...), esp. since her initial read on her was 'town with not a lot of confidence' (2692) , and has her as 'kinda town' in 2891
and then after i voted her 2695 and 2696 were pre-emptively defensive / trying to demonstrate how she's not a pav partner when nobody had really brought that up

There is more to this with the marcistar read but this was my reference.

wrt faker: 2950 (that seems like a weird thought for someone town to have)

You have literally seen me do something nearly identical as town. What the fuck are you talking about?

[Faker]

Either way I'm just being cheeky and there's no need to linger on this again.

[Faker]

If you flip town I think most of the reasons I get paranoid about faker goes away so that is nice

I don't really get this. It implies you're worried about S/S for me/skitter but not S/T. I really don't understand this one; our catfight is borderline gamethrowing. There is no need to do loops in the sun and be shocked if the wings melt instead of just flying straight. There's a lot more reason for skitter to be skeptical of me in T/S or to prod for vulnerability in S/T.

[Faker]

I mean r u gonna criticize me for failing to heavily consider skitter town faker scum
.I just wouldn't expect u to be that critic y'know

Oh this sweet summer child.

[Faker]

Just noting that I started reading. I'm going to try to not spam the thread and just do some summary at the end, then count on that infallalible and always reliable human memory to fill up the gaps of any realtime convo afterwards.

Good chance I type up something before my evening run but shrug.

[Faker]

I fuckin lied skitter this Beat push trash what the fuck

[Faker]

I have quite a few notes but:

VOTE: Meuh good call tbh, fast and loose is a much better play than slow and steady

Of the Meuh votes I like this one the least

(See? I don't have to make jokes, I could have said this one is the worst)

This is a post that makes me want to instayeet Coral in conjunction with Pav's next one.

Dude follows it up with 318, where he singles out the opportunistic votes with a counter on my slot

instead of Coral who he had just singled out as having a bad one

. Absolutely horrible distance job.

Worth noting that Gamma's post around these pages were absolutely fucking terrible and I was going to note that Meuh's 304 reaction to it is very good IMO.

[Faker]

I'm also disgusted by you filthy fuckin' materialists shoring up your insecurities and existential discontent with consumerism.

My life goal is just to live like Diogenes

[Faker]

Through Page 25.

Based off of what I've read I'd burn Worst->Cakez->Skitter->Meuh->marcistar in that order. I've got scattered thoughts across several tabs.

Marcistar is more of a vibe read but she's really not afraid or selfconscious this game, and I think both of those are hallmarks of her scumgame. She's not at all frozen and is quick with remarks like 235. 315 is a second highmark. I also think Pavowski's open buddying of her early game is town, see 238. My singular hangup is 328, which seems redundant given that Pavowski had just voted my slot and said gut the page before.

I'm not as sure on Meuh. She has some...interesting interactions with Pavowski. See 383 for one example, 318 for another. Overall I think she kept her cool well in the GuiltyLion back and forth and had a good, confident reaction to Gamma in 304.

skitter is completely absent for all substance in this timeframe and the Pavowski interactions at this time are minimal. The initial Beat push was trash but the next reasoning wrt GuiltyLion's defense of Isis was good. I concurred that GuiltyLion's reasoning there was Quite Bad.

With 488, I am happy to assure everyone that GuiltyLion is town. I know, you can all breathe easy.

Worst/Cakez are both more PoE reads. I don't think any of Cakez pushes are contextually terrible early, but they're very safe, ex. in his vote on Gamma for being surface-level scummy. I don't get any vibes that make me think he's actively scheming but it feels like he's just...coasting along and

trying

to react genuinely, and occasionally slips up with trash can posts like

The worst is town y'all better have a good reason for wagoning them

which is completely nonsensical on several fronts here.

Worst isn't actively bad either, but the content is thin up to page 25 and I see no reason to find him town. I think the vote discrepancy pulled up by both myself and GuiltyLion is adequately explained by Worst being scum and it being a bad distance on Pavowski's part.

[Faker]

It'll be awhile before I restart my read since I'm going to go run+grocery shop, but that felt nice to get out of the way.

[Faker]

as I start reading, can't resist a completely pointless exercise in hubris and self-indulgence, I do find it amusing when people say stuff like this:

I concurred that GuiltyLion's reasoning there was Quite Bad.

because was I not right on Isis at the end of the day after all ? maybe my reasoning is just some next level galaxy brain stuff

No, it has very little to do with Isis' reveal. Every other player can tell you I am absolutely ruthless in critiquing process and openly taunt players who think a correct flip means an argumentative point must have been a good one. My review actually praises points against my own slot, and I critique my own for being dogshit all the time.

This line was made because Meuh/skitter were right and this line of reasoning was absolutely fucking horrific:

These posts are so over the top that it just reads to me like Isis is trying to replicate her town meta

similar vein as what I just posted - why do you think scum!Isis would be so over the top you could catch her off of it just 4-5 pages into the game? doesn't that seem unlikely?

This post sucks

am I wrong to think Isis is not going to obvscum on page 5?

especially because Cakez argument is just "she's trying to replicate her town meta", which is always a shit reason to scumread someone because usually

it's just actually their town meta

The final sentence is the only passable one in the bunch.

[Faker]

If Isis is over the top and inauthentic in one post it barely matters if it's on page 90 or page 5. The mistake would be bad tonal judgment. People absolutely fuck up their tone, attempts at nuance, and attempts to metamatch early at every level of play, ask any DC winner.

[Faker]

I fuckin lied skitter this Beat push trash what the fuck

Hmmmmm?

Her post about the Gamma "pocket attempt" was totally fine.

[Faker]

because was I not right on Isis at the end of the day after all ? maybe my reasoning is just some next level galaxy brain stuff

I misread this as saying you were wrong on Isis at the end of the day [but right earlier]. I don't think there's an issue given that misinterpretation, feel free to throw the more acerbic post out the window...but if you wanted an explanation of my viewpoint, well, there it was...

[Faker]

It was like p2 or whatever amd the closest thing i had to a sr
I dropped it p fast

I would say it was a reach intended to move the game forward. And I compliment your next set of arguments/posts with GL!

but tiger the past is set in stone, that beat push trash

[Faker]

Faker when ur done i would like to convince u to vote meuh plz

Have no fear, we are known to be good at reaching agreement, consensus, and a cordial mutually acceptable solutions in all circumstances

[Faker]

Link me the specific post of yours you want me to keep in mind while I read. I'm going to try to get to page 50 tonight and call it there.

[Faker]

We've got a week left.

[Faker]

~It's going to be a day for me~ but we'll see how much grinding I can get done at degen hours.

Kind of unfortunate that everyone else is on too normal of a sleep schedule for me.

[Faker]

I've started reading in these degen hours and I've realized two things:

1) I am instinctively reading everything The Worst types as scum and borderline preflipping him
2) In conjunction with the Champions over Domains thread I was reading earlier today, pondering which combination of Will/Verbosity/Rigor I was, I realized how accurate the weaknesses of Will were:

Spoiler:

Will

- There are very few things that you cannot overcome with enough charisma and desire. Your belief in your ability to influence the game is your strength, and you flex that strength early and often to shape the game state to what you believe it should be. Your tenacity makes you a tough target, as at your best you are rarely in the path of least resistance. However, if rebuffed enough, you can become desperate and unbalanced; in addition, if you do not have a cause to believe in, you may lack the conviction to make any contribution at all, making you a target of opportunity.

Without something to believe in, or any early game influence to flex, I am a complete fucking worthless doormat. Maybe it's time to just cut the spitballing, cut the wheelspinning, and embrace working backwards and see what happens.

[Faker]

Literally the second I typed that and moved to adjust my laptop to read more my laptop screen shell snapped

I have no smartphone to post from

It's still usable but oh god

[Faker]

If I told Isis I had started exclusively drinking collected rainwater, she legitimately would not be able to guess if it was out of choice or out of necessity.

I think that says a lot about who I am as a person.

[Faker]

is it the worst?

No i'm p sure she means me lol

I know there's a false positive rate to it but I'd be pretty ok killing someone for posting this
more specifically i can just
visualize scumskitter posting it and townskitter not
it's like
text indicating suspicion on her just has higher priority for interpretation than other content, causing the egregious error (she's clearly not kidding? both in structure and it's not remotely skitter's brand of humor, she's not really a court jester)
I don't think Aris posted suspicion about skit at any point
I know i'm gonna get mudslapped for level -1 gawtcha reads

but i know swift
actually i don't know swift i can't just be quiet and vig on the opinion that's how that metaphor would work

i know rest

howzabout that

I, perhaps predictably, hate this post

The reasoning was terrible but this was legitimately the most townpost Isis made all game short of the selfie.

I've read on through most of this argument and it just gets worse, particularly page 32 and post 785.

[Faker]

I am very certain that you let the comment pass rather than single out that one to make a million hoops to jump through.

I found earlier arguments about over-the-top concerns vaguely credible, I actually thought they were likely fabricated just in how safe it was on Cakez's part.

Such wacky nuanced performances are usually either completely manufactured from the start (eg. over mechanics, over a reread, over a question) or in reaction to a high-pressure push. This was you randomly pulling this completely forgettable post of skitter's out of pocket and barely being ashamed in pushing garbage w/ that dart throw reaction.

[Faker]

I also noticed that you didn't find her reaction in 785 very scummy; my bold guess is that you were probably impressed by the directness of telling you that it was a read you wanted rather than one with basis.

This is untrue IMO and you can say shit like that completely unpunished as scum.

That said I'd still burn Coral/Cakez over her so far so hey

[Faker]

3450 is probably very hard to parse looking at it again, sorry.

Cakez had a read on you being over the top in some nuanced/conflicted posting you had near the start, iirc about mechanics. I could see why he might think this; I actually saw very little open malice from Cakez in it at all. I was more surprised that his reads were predictable and dull, which led me to wonder if he was just trying to spitball coast as scum. It is somewhat unfair of me to gutread it as scum.

My scumread on Cakez here is secondary: I concurred with him that your posting early could be over-the-top and a "look at me I'm thinking" performance.

I'd contrast that read early with skitter's reaction midgame. That was you pulling the most random and forgettable fucking post out of pocket that no one was ever going to follow you on. It's a lot harder to single posts like that out to put on such a wacky hem-hawing performance.

[Faker]

This is a weird setup, and I don't think this looks like Isis approaching it as scum. less superficially she's made several decisions which cost favour in exchange for advancing reads (I'll say "anti-charismatic" decisions lahtough that isn't quite the right word). I think if she's pushing you to further an agenda, she's doing it in a way that isn't likely to misalign the game - similarly to how she's positing that i look like scum - it feels more like that's just the way she's processing our slots.

i think her argument about my semantic issue with my townread on her was, like, not accurate but felt like it came from a place of critical thinking rather than a place of deliberately overlooking things in order to achieve a certain read on me.

i don't really feel like isis pursuing these reads without pushing them while adding weight to the cakez wagon comes from a place of someone who is aligned with a scum in cakez/gamma.

VOTE: The Worst Coral

It was not obvious at all to me, even tracking every bit of nuance in it, that this was a T/T fight even with Isis confirmed town. 888 and 890 are vague garbage, and extremely bold claims for someone who is engaging with the game minimally. This is someone concerned with remaining a voice of reason and who knows how the scumflips in this setup work.

Combined with that one absolutely terrible sequence of Pav's I'm voting here. I strongly doubt I will change my mind.

[Faker]

After page 38's back and forth with Aristeia I am convinced skitter is just born anti-Prism limbait. I'm sitting her in null because I have not once in my life consistently liked her posts and reasoning as town and as scum I have frequently had her nulltown.

[Faker]

ugh maybe i should drop this for now >.>

pedit that was about you, not gamma

i'm actually not sure it's inevitable at all? or like it's early enuf that i'm not sure it's inevitable at all

also btw what do u think about titus?

From my informed perspctive this looks very +town actually. There's some incentive for the Aristeia back/forth as scum, and she didn't have a lot of choice about the Isis one after she first commented.

I cannot for the life of me think why on earth she would find this post to be anything resembling acceptable play as scum.

[Faker]

VOTE: TUF actually this one speaks to my soul a little

In contrast I cannot for the life of me figure out why worst joins the most unashamedly survivalistic counterwagon.

This makes no fucking sense. The last thing I remember from the worst at this time is him voting Gamma and calling him under the radar. CTRL+F searching the last time he checked in he's working it from there being scum in Cakez/Gamma.

This read/vote progression is absolutely nonsensical and in conjunction with 316 and 321 from Pav which is still some of the worst distancing I have ever seen this slot needs to be burned.

[Faker]

Any one of you who read Day 1 and came out of that with a townread on worst/Coral deserves a very simple fate for the collective good of the town, holy shit

Spoiler:

[Faker]

Might not be obvious what's so bad in a vacuum about worst's TUF vote there. It's a reaction to this vote from Gamma:

actually how about this
VOTE: the ugly fruit
hasn't done much but what he has done, I'm not a big fan of

VOTE: TUF actually this one speaks to my soul a little

Where Gamma is the pot calling the kettle black and worst has never indicated liking a single thing of Gamma's all game, and his last post implying he heavily believed there was scum in Cakez/Gamma.

This is a dude who straight up sees scum in 0 danger Day 1 and is just making complete nonsense chaos votes.

[Faker]

I'm gonna read the room and see if my vanity vote on TUF is cute or not then decide if I'm joining the Ari wagon

SOMEONE GO BACK TO THIS POINT IN TIME AND PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE FUCK THE WORST IS DOING AS TOWN EXCEPT ROTATING OUT NONSENSICAL VOTES

WHERE IS THE CAKEZ/GAMMA VOTE

[Faker]

this is kind of why i townread skitter actually. she's *talking* about those things, and using them as conversation pieces, but i feel like her actual votes/pushes have felt fueled by more significant alignment indicators? more like alerting them to her concerns and challenging them to explain/adapt which is less of an agenda tell and more of like, a tell that her thoughts are probably more likely to be genuine.

this is why i'm coming around on skitter. scum!skitter has a lot of ammunition to push people, and she's rarely afraid to make a push. i kinda just feel like she's parsing people instead of pushing them?

From a scum-skitter perspective, she was getting severely pressured by Isis/Aristeia in the dialogues this is referencing. When she seems in the clear, she follows it up on a vote with Aristeia and starts pushing that slot+challenging her on the Gamma vote.

This is an absolute garbage read and the parsing vs. pushing distinction is non-existent. I can go further here where I assume it is in good faith and rip it apart but I will not, I think it's completely fake.

[Faker]

I'm definitely perplexed by the worst moving off of a leading Gamma wagon to a vanity Fruit vote, feel like even without reading anything I can tell that's not a game advancing move so I want to look into why he made that switch

This is a complete and unqualified apology to GuiltyLion for tearing into him the other day about the Isis defense

Between this and the Pavowski vote progression we are like siblings, only closer

[Faker]

I'm wrapping up through page 50 and calling it a night.

I haven't quite gotten there yet but I feel like doing my review now so: I think it's clear that I scumread Coral's slot based off of tw/Pavowski and the more I read the more I, shockingly, like skitter. I haven't paid that much attention to Meuh (partially because the icon similarity make me accidentally skim her as conf-town Aristeia, F) but still feel very good about marcistar's continued confidence, banter, and total lack of difficulty in her interactions. I can probably track through her reads at a later date but shrug.

I cannot for the life of me see why skitter keeps going with Aristeia as scum here. I also laughed at a lot of this later exchange which is classic Aristeia shoving her head in the sand and not giving a shit about things that go against her worldview.

Cakez is kind of just there. He tagged onto GL's post about tw's votemove but I wasn't really impressed by it, very reactionary and unclear to me how his reads are progressing at all.

[Faker]

I'm not going to be around until degen hours again but yeah, I don't think my laptop has more than another day or two of life left in it. This is rough, might be finishing this game out at a public library computer lmao

[Faker]

I admit that marci does have quite good vibes from what I've read. I'm a little surprised by the level of nuance your reasoning has given how you believed nobody would listen to it. Looking at the timeline of UglyFruit's posts in comparison to marci's that you've quoted, the narrative checks out.

I do think that people often have an investment in helping welcome their newbie friends to the game and have a tendency to make excuses for them. My gut feeling would be that marci as scum would be less likely to stick her neck out for him, but I'm not sure on that. I can see, though, how the progression could have scum motivation, with the move to discredit after UglyFruit begins to scumread her

I guess I'm actually still a little hung up on why you were so fatalistic about people not listening to you

i don't see any previous mention of why you find marci to be scum in your ISO, between 1534 and now, at least. that would make the self-comparisons to Beat a tad premature, no? my understanding was that Beat expressed reads and reasons, felt nobody listened to them, got dejected and shut down. you expressed a read without reasons despite the reason being actually pretty good, and then said that you understood the lack of engagement and agency that beat was feeling, and said that nobody would follow you onto a marci vote.

I think I may be coming back around to finding that line to be performative

This 2 post sequence reads really towny to me. It's risky to do this thing where you analyze this feature and reserve judgement on how to interpret it, then kind of interpret it live, as scum, it might not come off natural, and it looks really natural here. There's no logical disconnects. And it all really seemed like an excercise in academic integrity or something because my slot didn't feel like it mattered much at the time.

I really don't think this is as difficult as you are making it out to be as scum. It means she can play the game. In a vacuum if these were the only two posts in a game to go off of, sure I'd dart throw townlean. I don't think they're actively scummy posts, and for several players the occasional "academic integrity" posts are town just because they either can't think of it to begin with, or because they routinely phone it in as scum because they don't give a shit. I don't see Coral as being in either category.

I think it's her towniest bit to me, but bear in mind it's ladled onto a baseline of

believing worst to be town

so when I talk about the read being strong all the time, there's that.

???

[Faker]

I'm down to policy Cakez for continuing to push marci

Spoiler:

[Faker]

The worsts interactions right before repping out were so genuine. I can't believe he faked those.

Maybe my tune will change come the replace out but literally zero I saw from the worst had me townreading the slot. I thought it was all either trivial to fake or completely insincere.

Can you be more specific?

[Faker]

If Marci is town then one of skitter or Faker is scum and fuck me if I know who it is

Isn't skitter much more townread by you than Faker?

Spoiler:

[Faker]

It's time for a new French Revolution, let us eat cake

[Faker]

My preference atm is Coral->Cakez->Meuh->skitter->marcistar, with very little work done on Meuh

[Faker]

My preference atm is Coral->Cakez->Meuh->skitter->marcistar, with very little work done on Meuh

Plz do work on meuh >.>

LMAO get rekt nerd

she swapped spots with u it's ok its progress

[Faker]

I'm 99% sure skitter accidentally breathed in my cardinal direction so now I have a headache, not sure how much I'm going to be able to read come degen hours but ONE DAY

Fun fact I also have something like ~40 wasps that I have to fight through every time I try to enter or leave my room and that's probably her fault somehow too

I am LIVING LIKE LARRY THIS WEEK

[Faker]

Are my misfortunes the natural consequence of my own actions, poor judgments, and terrible life choices?

No. It is the tiger that is wrong.

[Faker]

skitter there's gotta be an equal exchange of faith here btw

have you looked at coral recently or have you just expected me to look at meuh FOR FREE out of THE KINDNESS OF MY HEART

[Faker]

ok i'm coming out of this feeling more sus of her before

[Faker]

I think the 25 page chunks I've tackled have been a good balance of doable without zoning out/losing a ton of depth. That said I know time is ticking so we'll see, hoping it speeds up when the pages turn half into me spamming worthless trash 10 posts at a time.

[Faker]

all of you filth are out here being social, making friends, making plans, enjoying the fruits of modernity

not me. i choose a different path. i live with my southern yellowjackets, my flip phone, survive by eating dirt straight out of a bucket. fellow humans are necessary only for playing mafia games, at least until the yellowjackets figure out how to coalesce into a keyboard-operating superbrain

you people SICKEN ME

[Faker]

you are necessary for my hobby but ONE DAY these yellowjackets will be better mafia players than any of you THE DAY WILL COME

[Faker]

I'm a big fan of roasted oolong but can never go wrong with thai milk thea or taro

[Faker]

I'm going to try reading during normal people hours for once since I won't be around tonight/tomorrow for the most part.

The quotes of Cakez from worst mean zero to me looking at them. Aristeia makes pushes that are genuinely disturbing and have troubling long-term implications to scum players. I would know.

P-Edit: Okay Coral takes the crown that is the funniest shit I've seen all week

[Faker]

lol

[Faker]

In my defense I am literally incapable of reading quickly, I read at a rate of like a page every 5-10 minutes depending on how dense it is. Borderline illiterate.

[Faker]

I was in the middle of shitpost My-ew like bayou and if that's really it I was going to lose my shit

[Faker]

I lived in Louisiana for a year I'm basically fluent

[Faker]

fun aside, it's been proven that there exists at least one strictly unwinnable StS seed, based on a mandatory floor 6 super elite +max HP Laga https://oohbleh.github.io/losing-seed/

This is fascinating, ty

this is unironically the post that made me laugh the hardest the entire game holy shit lmaoooooooooooooooo

[Faker]

It's because I have never once seen skitter talk about a video game, maybe she is a big Spire fan or whatever the game is

but my interpretation was that skitter just saw all this math & stats without any game knowledge whatsoever and said "Oh hot dog"

being smart and liking math is UNCOOL

[Faker]

That is what I get for making a WRONG assumption

but in my heart you still just love math more

[Faker]

At some point it sounds like I am going to have to play this Sprite tower game thing in order to understand the mafia one

[Faker]

I will however need a computer to play on it

This is what I am currently considering buying but lmk if anyone has any ideas

[Faker]

I swear I'm reading the game

[Faker]

skitter even though i rationally know it was in fact because i've never seen you talk about a video game

i still feel like a HORRIBLY SEXIST PERSON FOR ASSUMING THE TIGER DID NOT PLAY SPIRE

and as much as i wish i could blame you for this it is THE CONSEQUENCES OF MY OWN ACTIONS and i am sorry

[Faker]

I'm through page 72, which is a bit into Day 2.

My reads really haven't changed at all, though I see no further reason to townread Skitter in it. Meuh's Day 2 reaction was good though I did question the reasoning behind the vote on Pav. I think it's interesting how much more comfortable Pav was interacting with worst than any of the other players.

I did not find the back/forth between Aristeia and worst townie. As much as I hate to revisit exactly what went wrong FMPOV, Aristeia was guilt tripping and being manipulative and I can see why worst was sick of it. This also isn't the first time that worst has had clashes with Aristeia, this makes at least 3. I really don't think the replace-out or the dialogue around it was town-indicative. It's someone who was putting what time they could into the game, didn't agree with her arguments, and was sick of her. I think only #2 is plausibly +town, but looking at the arguments I did not find it so.

I thought this was a massive +scum flag for the worst:

I don't love reading people when emotions are high but I think Ari's reactions with TW last night (hate to see you go Duck) are towny

TW's reactions less so

I think Pav was aware of the perceptions for worst and thought this distance was free.

[Faker]

I'm about to take a break. I don't see what Isis sees in Coral, especially now that I know that those early nuanced solving posts were shortly upon replace-in.

Let me preface by saying that this whole conversation makes me uncomfortable, not just because the Duck is my dude, but because the moment you start trying to figure out people's emotional reactions to things it quickly becomes a minefield and I don't wanna stick my foot in my mouth more than I do just as a result of talking generally

But I think it's easy as scum to have that "worst possible interpretation" view when other people post things and I think it's possible that played a role here

I dunno, as I'm saying this I feel like it sounds stupid, and I think it's only barely useful -- if at all -- to be basing a read on a player who has now exited the game. I just get really uncomfortable when people take things personally, and I'm a little bit socially handicapped anyway

And again I'm not saying all of the above = DuckScum, I was just noting that, in that particular exchange, you -- Ari -- struck me as townier. You could both be town

Anyway I feel awkward as hell now =\ I'm just gonna pretend that unpleasantness last night didn't happen and we just have a new face at our sundress party for some reason

Perhaps a bit unfairly, I legitimately think this is Pavowski feeling bad about a partner being townread for that rage-replaceout.

[Faker]

At some point it sounds like I am going to have to play this Sprite tower game thing in order to understand the mafia one

It is a lot of fun tho, u shojld try it when ur computer recovers from its bandaid situation

bruh this shit is fucked the hinge completely broke through the top shell and the entire thing is in fragments

gonna take a hella big bandaid

WHICH IS WHY I WANT THE PANASONIC TOUGHBOOK BLACK COBRA

[Faker]

Aristeia was guilt tripping

I don't think I ever tried to guilt trip him.

I was suspicious of how weak his push was because I didn't feel like he really believed I was mafia.

and then when he started screaming at me I just wanted to get off the boat because I felt awful.

I don't really want to delve into the weeds on this or work through what I think you did wrong, sorry. I brought it up purely to track through what I thought of worst's reaction and how AI it was.

[Faker]

you should eat Marci

I think she's town, no

[Faker]

I'm gonna be 100% real with you, my read on marcistar is 100% vibes.

I'm not sorry for it, my guess is that that is best way to read her.

I really need to stop doing this shit

[Faker]

I'm torn between the X1 Nano and the BLACK COBRA PANASONIC TOUGHBOOK for my next laptop someone help

[Faker]

ok actually just looking into that real quick. cause anyone else I'd automatically go "Faker town" but here? this could be pav distancing?

I can't tell if "anyone else" is referring to me or referring to Pav, no offense to Pav but I think he'd agree his scumgame atm is still weak. I don't even think you've seen mine, lmao

[Faker]

At some point I'm going to have to just put together the first single-post case I've made in fucking years against Worst/Coral only to have Isis completely ignore it and I'm going to mald

[Faker]

I'm pretty sure skitter is town from her interactions with Aristeia, I can't remember the page range off the top of my head but my guess would be in the 40s.

I think leaving her uncleared is fine for scum, there is virtually always doubt on account of who she is. I have 1/2 concerns to revisit but right now I would not vote her and am vaguely frustrated that Isis is shoving her.

[Faker]

Cakez is my runner-up vote but I still have plenty to work back over, and there is a good chance I just outright have to deal with the entire table refusing to vote a blatantly scum player and find a partner that is magically less obvious but more palatable.

[Faker]

No offense but I spent about ~8 hours reading skitter's ISO and her real-time interactions with multiple players, in addition to my own interactions with her.

Isis has probably put in similar if not more. Aristeia has put in similar if not more.

Check yourself on the idea that no one else is trying or thinking about reading her.

[Faker]

Correct.