Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[Nashville Dreams]

I do think both Klick and TicTac are town.

Klick you're going to say your result + mason but why is tictac town?

Consistently trying to elim FL for starters.

I don’t see Tictac paired with anyone

Wolves would have something to gain from eliminating mafia.

I have trouble believing this part when a good chunk of the game has him as possible scum. This is doubly true when you don't factor in the same setup for me.

This type of analysis isn't surprising for you regardless of alignment (agree with Math = town) but I was hoping for something based off tictac's play to dissuade myself of that post being a slip. Scum!Math is perfectly capable of writing this reply.

Pedit: You have made almost as many posts as Mala AND I have in the entire game in two game days. You + Monkey are now the second largest poster. FL has maybe made 200 in the past few days. He had like 1000 d1. You're the one spamming, which you do regardless of alignment when you feel out of control.

[Nashville Dreams]

Correct

I am not in control because you and FL have been

Your numbers are incorrect

You and scum

spammed Cass repeatedly instead of what confirmed FL scum

And now you’re still spamming trying to argue him not the elim again

It’s patently obvious FL is wolf siding,

So I'm conf!town now. Well at least I am conftown by bullshit.

Cool. Later.

[Nashville Dreams]

You're typing so fast you can't keep your perspectives straight.

[Nashville Dreams]

If I were mafia, i wouldn't be wolfsiding here. I'd be mafia siding/townsiding because i could still hunt wolves.

I also hard disagree that Mathblade hasnt been the one in control, i had 1150 ish posts by end of day 1.

I'd play it like an SK so not quite that but mafia prefers a wolf flip here all things considered.

[Nashville Dreams]

Also, it's psychological with Math. We know number of posts =/= equal control. Math has this tick where he feels compelled that his arguments will win out if he finds a magical phrase or persuasion but the more he repeats an idea that people have rejected the less persuasive he is. When he realizes people are rejecting his ideas, he doubles down looking for a magical answer. He struggles to meet people how they are. It's not through lack of trying.

[Nashville Dreams]

I think Bnuuy might be locked in as wolf for me, especially if TicTac ends up being town.

If Titus is correct that Mathblade TMI'd, which they have already when twisting narratives to try and push me as scum for days, then Bnuuy is probably a wolf partner.

I'd go for this if Math flips wolf.

[Nashville Dreams]

There was a span of posts that boggled my mind and I feel like that’s indicative of scum!Titus

Either you're scum or you never play with me. My name is Moon Walker for a reason.

[Nashville Dreams]

she “townread” you because you emotionally abused her!

(@Math THIS should be a dead giveaway of who I am)

I don't care who you are. Anything short of an innocent child, accusing another player of emotional abuse is no.

[Nashville Dreams]

There was a span of posts that boggled my mind and I feel like that’s indicative of scum!Titus

Either you're scum or you never play with me. My name is Moon Walker for a reason.

I feel like I can grok your reads pretty well when you’re town
See the Shakespeare game, where even before *that* happened I was feeling pretty good about you.

I'm not digging up an old game to try and alt hunt you.

Frankly, I don't care who you are, I still find this bullshit.

[Nashville Dreams]

she “townread” you because you emotionally abused her!

(@Math THIS should be a dead giveaway of who I am)

I don't care who you are. Anything short of an innocent child, accusing another player of emotional abuse is no.

He’s done it to me as well
And he did it earlier this game I think
As for bringing it up, I’ve been a powderkeg for the past couple months, I need to let the pressure release SOMEHOW.

We can talk after the game or if one of us dies. Sounds like you need an friend. Mafia can be a release for some but it's not the best to play under massive stress unless people can factor in accordingly.

I think my read on you might be impacted by this. I suppose all players are in a good mindstate unless otherwise stated.

[Nashville Dreams]

Fuck it.

VOTE: Mathblade

*prepares for spam*

[Nashville Dreams]

including all 3 of us being right next to each other on Vote Counts.

This was deliberate to fool me I presume?

[Nashville Dreams]

@Keeper - If you could gladiate Mathblade here, that would be greatly appreciative.

That would be spicy and unpredictable.

[Nashville Dreams]

including all 3 of us being right next to each other on Vote Counts.

This was deliberate to fool me I presume?

This is where I get uneasy on you. I know your capabilities and your ability to probe my weaknesses, yet you don't feel like scum. Like I want you to feel like scum. Then I can sheep Math and go lol surefire mafia down. However, given that most of my townreads think you're town or don't want to lim you, I find it hard to go along myself.
Yeah, it also was to mess with vote count analysis, but that entire game clutched around you being the 1 town placed in the position of kingmaker between the 3 of us, and the others. had one of us went down, we likely all would have went down.

And that's generally the way I like to play it. There's been very few games I've had as scum where I am the only scum alive.

[Nashville Dreams]

This is where I get uneasy on you. I know your capabilities and your ability to probe my weaknesses, yet you don't feel like scum. Like I want you to feel like scum. Then I can sheep Math and go lol surefire mafia down. However, given that most of my townreads think you're town or don't want to lim you, I find it hard to go along myself.

Quote eaten lol

[Nashville Dreams]

If Titus and I were both scum Math would have been faded yesterday since we'd have had like 5 scum to support.

We already know 1 scum was on Math/Cass in CSF
So I find it baffling that anyone thinks voting Math today is a good play

One scum in a game with 1/3 scum....

[Nashville Dreams]

Flavor, how would you win this game if Mafia from your position?

[Nashville Dreams]

Fair. That's along my lines as well. Not reassuring but not manipulative either.

Who is your mafia read?

[Nashville Dreams]

If we don’t now would be the perfect time for a gladiate here. Much as I hate wasting it on conf scum it’s better than this

This is odd.

@Nero, Keeper scum keeping the gladiate around to possibly protect Math if things went sideways?

[Nashville Dreams]

What's the deal with the money counting?

If a gladiate happened on scum or Math, I'd find it more believable.

What were you looking to do?

[Nashville Dreams]

What's the deal with the money counting?

If a gladiate happened on scum or Math, I'd find it more believable.

What were you looking to do?

Every time I get misgendered I get a dollar.

At the moment, I'm trying to gauge Math using once again far more effort than I would like to given i had a spicy night last night I'm probably going to fall flat on my face with that one.

Fair.

Math fell for my test btw. He's fully capable of observing details when he slows down and creates a facade. His mechanics are likely accurate for that reason but not impeccably so. There's too many obviously focused on things that could be wrong. Versus careless or carefully wrong Math being true.

[Nashville Dreams]

There's actually one obscure theory where Math is mafia but it literally requires almost every action planned out and Math literally getting ahead of things.

[Nashville Dreams]

Oh wait NM, that requires mastina to block her own partner. Math's wolf or nothing.

[Nashville Dreams]

No wait, actually it doesn't but that's literally one in a million though as it requires mastina and Math to miss something or mastina being willing to risk dying as scum negative utility.

[Nashville Dreams]

Spoiler: Moonlogic Math is Mafia

N1 both teams no kill, FL shoots catboi
N2 mafia block and kill butters, wolves shoot butters. Math claims block for credit.
N3 mafia no kills to frame FL.

[Nashville Dreams]

If I am right, wolves and mafia have to no kill based on the rules
As N1 they would have no killed.

Then 2 and 3 they both killed
So then to avoid three nights with kills in a row they’d have to no kill

If there is a kill it’d out FL

If not that is horribly unclear to a literalist like me and that sucks.

If it’s your interpretation then a no kill is not mandated and my prior answer is revised.

Running late for work but I think FL is town but if he is scum he’d be outed

I refuse to believe wolves no killed on N1 and N3 which is required for wolves to not shoot at FL N3

I agree FL wouldn’t shoot mastina here as scum.

I just don’t think wolves don’t shoot FL given how townread FL was yesterday.

This wasn't meant to be unclear, so: Yes, it is possible for scum to kill 4 nights out of the first 5. The groups of 123 and 456 (and 789) must each contain a no kill; that's all.

Just you’ve seen it recently.

I kinda think we elim FL to explain kills even though I think he is town.

This flip makes sense if Math could no longer frame FL.

[Nashville Dreams]

Also why does CSF die over STD if Klick isn’t scum?

It’s because STD was voting alongside Math on places that weren’t me, and they thought they could switch STD’s vote more than CSF, as evident in the game thread with Math stating if they die they trust STD. They were actively playing up to STD whereas CSF might have voted Mathblade.

Mega was likely the target of the Mafia night kill because if mafia didn’t get rid of Masons they were fucked, and Klick/TicTac were on the table.

That makes sense as Math wolf, which I still find more likely but I haven't ruled out a mafia flip.

[Nashville Dreams]

I think we should stop posting as we're essentially circle jerking and it gives Math an excuse to cry spam as our discussions are largely done FL.

I am pretty much set on Math, SoD or FL (reluctantly have to). Something could change that but I don't see how we optimize strategically without one of those three eliminations.

[Nashville Dreams]

N1 cross kill and/or n3 frame and/or inaction based on a misunderstanding of the rules.

Might sub in by myself. Can't reasonably reach Mala.

[Nashville Dreams]

N3 frame? If Mafia were framing FL why hasn’t he gotten traction the four ish days I have pushed him

C’mon now

Because people hate how you push regardless of alignment.

[Nashville Dreams]

N1 cross kill and/or n3 frame and/or inaction based on a misunderstanding of the rules.

Might sub in by myself. Can't reasonably reach Mala.

You’re surely not arguing that wolves shot RCE

So you’re arguing mafia shot RCE despite RCE being a viable miselim for them?

No that again is ridiculous

Right forgot RCE was wolf. Most likely n3 was a frame job then and/or mastina deliberately sandbagging if FL town.

I'm more focused on you wolf than mafia. I already spoiled my more precise theory before but that doesn't mean it's the only way FL is town, especially if we have a lying wolf that roleblocks.

[Nashville Dreams]

So no if you want to use your gladiate you fucking do it in me and FL.

Then when I flip green flip FL and Titus whichever we have numbers for

Titus is a wolf and FL is mafia

Turn the 'tude down, I'm trying to work with you here.
I've been massively ill with a pain flare, into some prick last night not respecting our boundries, into an IBS flare.

Pain flares mess me up, that's known. Switching as hard as we did with Selene last night fucked me and the bodies energy up, and IBS is pure hell. I've been on the can most of the day. I've even dropped most of the gimmicks I have on this account.

I joined this for a fun chill game, instead no I get 1500 mass poster FL, spammy af MB who is in full conspiracy mode and Titus making snipes no matter what I do.

If you go down, what/where are we looking at your frankly mountainous pile of posts to correlate the information?

Sorry if you interpreted my paranoia as snipes. I am really still trying to keep the game fun.

[Nashville Dreams]

The thing stopping me from going fuck it and swinging for you MB, is I don't think you're stupid enough as scum to swing at FL for the lim instead of just NKing.

Explain please? Wolves did kill mafia yesterday

[Nashville Dreams]

I don't pretend to know exactly what happened. I'm not required to break mech in a game designed not to be broken by mech. I just have reservations on FL. Nero and StD have reservations. Keeper has reservations. SoD has reservations. That's enough for me to go by play and not mech.

[Nashville Dreams]

I don't pretend to know exactly what happened. I'm not required to break mech in a game designed not to be broken by mech. I just have reservations on FL. Nero and StD have reservations. Keeper has reservations. SoD has reservations. That's enough for me to go by play and not mech.

You don’t have to know exactly what happened. It’s about what’s probable.

Probable = mech spec debate = no thanks.

[Nashville Dreams]

Please do, I'm looking at my VCA and its interesting.
may as well be on main at this point.

Go on.

[Nashville Dreams]

I feel it too.

If we aren't doing Math, we can do SoD.

[Nashville Dreams]

I feel it too.

If we aren't doing Math, we can do SoD.

Or we could do FL

Unless you can make a case that Nero and/or Keeper is wolf who agency captured me and StD, it's not going to happen.

[Nashville Dreams]

A monk died on N3

FL should have had a shot on N3 and didn’t

FL was just caught mafia

For 5 days in a row Damn it

FL claimed two shot vig, so he wouldn't have a shot N3. For someone who is screaming FL is guilty, you aren't even putting his claim right.

Also, by the same mechanics you said FL was conftown and wolves shot SCP....

[Nashville Dreams]

the gate never changed, a new gate was added

just in case i wasn't clear on that

Same difference to me.

I don’t buy it.

You don’t just gain gates after the start of the game

Then why won't you claim yours?

[Nashville Dreams]

the gate never changed, a new gate was added

just in case i wasn't clear on that

Same difference to me.

I don’t buy it.

You don’t just gain gates after the start of the game

Then why won't you claim yours?

Because it would be anti town to do so.

You’re welcome to elim me or Keeper gladiate me but I won’t unless I am out.

Amazing how you can just make up whatever you want after massclaim.

[Nashville Dreams]

timeline

N1 begins
FL claims he can kill as long as all 3 are alive

catboi dies and D2 begins

FL claims he killed catboi in monkery
SCP votes for FL
FL claims 2 shot conditional vig in monkery

Nope. He didn't. You added/changed it after being wagoned.

STD is literally in the PT where I claimed 2 shot first, and you’re saying they’re lying

In b4 StD and I are wolves blatantly covering for you.

[Nashville Dreams]

When would you have preferred me to claim it?

In the hood the moment scum didn't shoot you and been consistent about it. The bigger thing is the lack of consistency.

It's easy to avoid the lack of consistency problem when you don't claim.

[Nashville Dreams]

FL/Math can you both stop please. Ty.

[Nashville Dreams]

Haven't read up but I don't like Math's push on Nero aft E r I highlighted that he'd have to convince me Nero was scum to move, but I'll hear him out. Slight remote distancing chance given how hard I TR Nero by play.

[Nashville Dreams]

Not feeling well. Responses may be unclear. 2.5 hours from reading games. Taking day largely off bc ill. Got to covid test point but negative.

~Titus

[Nashville Dreams]

Town have had 4 elims in this game, have killed 4 town
The scum have had a much higher success rate at killing scum than us

Aiming specifically for Mafia with 0% chance of hitting a wolf is ridiculous and I'm not entertaining it

Then we fucking no elim

As it’s the only way we do not lose

We have to hit mafia or we lose

Like Titus is waving her goddamn wolf role PM in front of us I still can’t elim her because we lose

Why would eliminating a wolf be a loss?

I don't see that.

[Nashville Dreams]

why is math assuming both mafia and wolves would hit town in a night kill scenario

Which one for my read up? I ran some numbers when I was clearer but I still want to compare at lunch or driving back.

[Nashville Dreams]

Can someone run it supposing Wolves kill mafia tonight?

[Nashville Dreams]

Wait, that's the same numbers as if we lim mafia today I think.

We need to run it supposing mafia shoots a wolf

[Nashville Dreams]

StD if we get 2 kills tonight, we get none tmo.

[Nashville Dreams]

I think that's a plot hole with Math's calculations as well eyebslling it.

[Nashville Dreams]

huh?

Scum can only kill 2 days in a 3 day set. Twice in 1 2 3. Twice in 4 5 6. We got 2 kills n4. Assuming we get two kills n5, scum can't kill n6.

[Nashville Dreams]

We're at 7 t, 3 w, 1 m

Eliminate mafia
Town dies

6:3

Miseliminate

4:3

Room 1 miselim

If we lim wolf and cross kills

Bunch of town versus 1 wolf

If lim wolf, mafia shoots wolf, wolf hits town

6 t, 1 w, 1 m ok scenario can flip both

Lim wolf, both sides shoot town

4t, 2w, 1m - Lim scum here is a must
No kills
If we lim wolf, 4t 1w 1m - Prisoner's dilemma during kills
If we lim mafia, 4t 2w night kill elo
If we lim town, 3t 2w 1m - likely loss

If we lim mafia, 7t, 3w
Shoot 6t 3w
Elim wolf 5t 2w
Miselim 3t 2w

If we lim town today
6t 3w 1m hope for crosskills, which is the only way mafia stays relevant. They need the setup down to 1w to preserve kpn

[Nashville Dreams]

then we get 4:3:1 the next day because of the kill restriction, mafia townsides to survive

there's also no guarantee you get limmed tomorrow if you're not nked

I don't see a scenario where Math is ever nked. He's got a bullshit claim and there's two confirmed not mafia/wolf for each side.

[Nashville Dreams]

That's why mafia is effectively leashed to kill tictac or klick.
Wolves leashed to Flavor or StD.

[Nashville Dreams]

I am just done.

[Nashville Dreams]

I think we shoot for a wolf flip today but if we luck into mafia, great too

[Nashville Dreams]

nashville- if Klick, FL, and I agree on a target are you willing to vote that target no questions asked

I'd do it if you Nero and FL agreed. I have small paranoia on Math covering for Klick.

[Nashville Dreams]

I don't have the energy to push through a Math elim even though it's what we should do

[Nashville Dreams]

also, I was on catboi d1, what CW was I on?

Scum bus when no better options or to keep cover/stories straight.

See my FL scum case earlier for which CWs

How do you explain WallFlower vs Catboi? WallFlower replaced out because of Catboi being toxic towards them, and Catboi had continuously called WallFlower's theories dumb.

I have had one toxic game like that but it's super rare in all my years of playing. I played it out because the toxic slot was my hydra partner. It's so rare it's an elo theory

[Nashville Dreams]

Math, what's your whole game read?

Flavor, SoD read?

I get the Melanque read.

[Nashville Dreams]

I think where the wolves are depends on who they think is mafia. Agree? Disagree?

[Nashville Dreams]

sorry klick i'm into it but i don't think it's happening

I want to know more about your wolf reads. Please take your time.

[Nashville Dreams]

Math, what's your whole game read?

Flavor, SoD read?

I get the Melanque read.

FL mafia
Titus wolf
Tic tac bnuuy Klick town

Rest wtf

And if I die FL is conf mafia

Please stop spamming what you want and engage in discussions about opinions regarding everyone rather thsn blanket conclusions. They are not helpful.

This list is blatantly whoever is voting with me is town.

[Nashville Dreams]

klick do you have a preference between mathblade and fl

i think both are town but i'm probably wrong so i got to give up and let fate decide

Then who is mafia?

[Nashville Dreams]

Agreed because then wolves should shoot FL in the Math town setup if it really confirms.

[Nashville Dreams]

Math, what's your whole game read?

Flavor, SoD read?

I get the Melanque read.

FL mafia
Titus wolf
Tic tac bnuuy Klick town
Std town

Rest wtf

And if I die FL is conf mafia

Please stop spamming what you want and engage in discussions about opinions regarding everyone rather thsn blanket conclusions. They are not helpful.

This list is blatantly whoever is voting with me is town.

That corresponds to my reads. Sorry you don’t like it

I'm wanting explanations not mere conclusions. Please

try

to read my posts. It's hard enough to draft them.

[Nashville Dreams]

You asked my whole game read

That is my reads

You won’t even interact with the big wall post I did where FL is scum by play

Why would I generate long posts you won’t address?

I haven't read because I've been ill. I didn't see it. Feel free to link with post tags along with read explanations. I'll look at what you want and you'll generate what I want.

[Nashville Dreams]

my reads are all over the place

Nashville Dreams - could be mafia. unlikely wolf. possible pocket of FL.

Sword of Ducks - very slim chance mafia. very slim chance wolf. more likely maf than wolf with how he gave up at start of day. but could also be a wolf that was coached into playing.

Nero Cain - slim chance mafia. probably not a wolf with the way catboi was coming after wallflower and how wallflower read catboi.

The Keeper - i don't know

bnuuy - possibly wolf. could be mafia too. i dunno. hasn't done much. i liked the ATE thought it was real but who knows.

tictac - possibly wolf. hasn't done much but scummy pop ins.

MathBlade - could be wolf trying to make klick pocketed and could be mafia going for the hail mary.

Klick - probably town

Flavor Leaf - not a wolf, could be mafia but i really don't think so

Menalque - possibly wolf, catboi defender. has spent time away from game, not sure if it's real or not. a wolf could have the confidence to do that.

I'm going to look at this when I get home. I'm going to start driving at noon at the latest. #addiction

Since you and FL are obvious NK targets and active. I want to get you as confident as I can by nightphase. You guys might get conf on Math flip.

I'd work with tictac and Klick as well but they might be scum and are here sporadically.

[Nashville Dreams]

Mathblade is specifically a Wolf who thinks I am Mafia.

Note to self do expected vote strategies based on Math and FL alignments

[Nashville Dreams]

That's why mafia is effectively leashed to kill tictac or klick.
Wolves leashed to Flavor or StD.

I thinknim reading MathBlade as Mafia atm?

I lean more wolf but maf possibly

[Nashville Dreams]

well shit



that probably doesn't happen if nasheville is mafia

Where was I voting

[Nashville Dreams]

Yeah, VCA heavily implies Math or Menalque is last wolf with Bnuny/Tictac, almost any way you look at it.

Menal chainsawing catboi makes a lot of sense d1 if he was voting me like i recalll. My wagon flares as I considered catboi

[Nashville Dreams]

i've ruled out everyone except mathblade for mafia

I say we all vote Math and sheep whomever has the right theory

[Nashville Dreams]

If Mathblade is Mafia, sheep ND or STD, if Math is town, sheep Klick, if Math is wolf, sheep me.

Down

[Nashville Dreams]

StD needs to revote Math too.

[Nashville Dreams]

I have made arguments in the way everyone fucking asked for
Danced in the way people asked me to dance

And they get fucking ignored

Tell me Nero want me to do the Macarena I will do it.

No. You haven't claimed and you're all push no listen

[Nashville Dreams]

i've ruled out everyone except mathblade for mafia

I say we all vote Math and sheep whomever has the right theory

Lmao

I doubt you’ll sheep yourself as wolf when I die

That’s a load of shit to get me elimmed

Then you’ll just argue I am not correct when I am

This is why Math is scum.

They aren't trying to convince others that Nashville is scum, they are arguing at Nashville that they are scum.

They have been hyperfocused like this the entire time, with me as well.

Like they're going to be so correct, that their reads so magically mechanically savvy, that it's going to convince their target that they are scum. A townie has no reason to do this to the extent Mathblade has.

Yes

I don’t try to convince people because Titus isn’t the proper elim today

As discussed before we have to elim mafia

sorry klick i'm into it but i don't think it's happening

I'm not satisfied with this. Non-conf-town-MathBlade isn't currently calling the shots by shouting faulty logic into the thread. Town can listen to me today. If there aren't enough town players willing to drone out Math's noise, then I'll settle on a Math elim today, but that is explicitly the reason that I'd do so.

VOTE: bnuuy

Math needs to die for sanity. Bnuuy tmo?

[Nashville Dreams]

VOTE: mena

Willing to follow here but think we need a math flip

[Nashville Dreams]

VOTE: bunny

the reason I'm not keen on this one is because this fade is going to happen within the next couple of days, no stopping it. Math/Bnuny is a pairing I see for sure, but i seriously dont want another day with Mathblade vs FL, and if I end up dying, Mathblade's gonna swing through near the end and eliminate threats to make the gamestate better for them.

I can relate with the feeling of wanting to vote MathBlade for the sake of the gamestate. It's also basically how I felt about you on D1.

But now it's D5. We need to eliminate scum. I don't think MathBlade!Wolf is impossible, but I see it as the least likely alignment for that slot. The way MathBlade is playing seems desperate to control the gamestate in a way that fits a lot more with Mafia on his last leg, or Town who actually just thinks his takes are correct and need to be listened to.

If Math is mafia on his last legs, limming him buys us a miseliminatiob

[Nashville Dreams]

Note to self readwall after ISOing myself today. Town!Math should see a town FL scenario given who has filled although a bit moonlogickt if listening but it's a double edged sword as it can point to him as well. I have eluded to it and probably said it a few times.

The fact he insists on his way or nothing is troubling as it suggests he]'s mafia.

His stubborn insistence I am a wolf is just flail for disagreeing. He can't explain hos tictac and bnuuy reads. He just wants everyone on his side.

[Nashville Dreams]

VOTE: bnuuy

Here we go. I'm outvoted most likely unless Keeper acts. Bnuuy isn't a horrible lim. If both active monks want it and I don't TR by play.

[Nashville Dreams]

Let me say full reads before hammer

[Nashville Dreams]

Keeper has been playing both sides of Mathblade-FL, and I could see them as final Mafia.

bnuuy ain't happening.

I will gladiate this if it comes to it, and "save bnuuy" if only because frankly I've now put way more effort into this than I was ever wanted to and frankly I want a day of discussion that isn't you/mb.

Please don't be a hero. You're getting it now. If you do though, make it quick please.

[Nashville Dreams]

Keeper has been playing both sides of Mathblade-FL, and I could see them as final Mafia.

bnuuy ain't happening.

I will gladiate this if it comes to it, and "save bnuuy" if only because frankly I've now put way more effort into this than I was ever wanted to and frankly I want a day of discussion that isn't you/mb.

This is exactly why I wanted Bnuuy.

I was actively testing to see if Keeper would defend Bnuuy.

@Klick/STD - This means we should go Mathblade today most likely. If Keeper defends Mathblade, then they're scum outing.

Let me get home and do a stream of consciousness before we hammer but fine with any of math tictac bnuuy Menalque

[Nashville Dreams]

VOTE: MathBlade

Keeper, I am ill and driving so I am focused on coordinating. Wall eta 1h 30m estimate

[Nashville Dreams]

and you chose to cleric me instead of gunsmithing/occulting someone else on Night 3?

This feels like what's his face in Titus v Alisae claiming a shot they should have spent. Do you remember that?

[Nashville Dreams]

well shit



that probably doesn't happen if nasheville is mafia

Where was I voting

MegA and CSF. Town and Mafia. Doesn't eliminate Wolf chance.

Agreed but that chainsaw makes sense.

[Nashville Dreams]

I'm parked. Give me a few minutes to put this readwall together. I am absolutely ok with corrections, particularly facts. I am doing this based on memory so if I fuck up and/or need citations fine. Citing everything is too much given my condition.

[Nashville Dreams]

I am shit at both for the record.
Also Titus being curious about my vca and basically ignoring it has me on guard.

I plan on including my own in my position on each player. That's how I planned to discuss VCA. I've been ill since last evening but if I stop, I'll never catch up.

[Nashville Dreams]

Titus's thoughts, part 1 - The Monkery

STD and FL with a side of Mathblade might be mafia

aka discussion of the monkery.

StD and FL can only be last mafia if scum. So let's focus a bit on what mafia would be looking at here.

We have 1 successful nk on a wolf night 1. We have a successful kill on a mafia n2 along with a malefactor. We have a successful kill on SCP a monk.

Let's start from the proposition that all sides behave logically and with an objective in mind.
There's two separate analysis going on. 1) mastina took a dive because of negative utility and 2) she did not take a dive because of negative utility.

As for 1, we know that mastina is fully capable of bussing and taking proactive action from FL's guide. Seeing that mastina needed to be nightkilled to stop town from getting an extra day, scum wanted to take action to ensure that the mafia looked town when mastina flipped at night. There are two things that need to happen mastina needs to be town enough not to be eliminated and she must be threatening or scummy enough to be shot.

FL being a mafia

Now if mastina took a dive (which is consistent with both FL and math theories), then mastina likely uses her block on N1 not N2. If mastina needs to die and scum are orchestrating it, then why would she wait around to use her roleblock? This proposition in Math's case against FL makes no sense at all. Sure, it's possible mafia waited and saved a block. Yet, they used it on someone who claimed to be a one shot? Math says that wolves could have investigated him, but with what role? The only slot left is Flavor. In that case, flavor just claims his invest in response to the gunsmith. The motivations don't line up here. Sure, it could be FL is a vig but might not be.

Math being a mafia (we're tabling him being a wolf)

Scenario A (Note: There is a Scenario B but it has a small mechanics change only)
In this setup, both sides no kill n1, FL kills catboi. mastina uses her block n1. Mafia and Wolves kill butterchurn. FL kills mastina. Night 3 - Wolves kill SCP (as a mafia kill on a monk makes no sense with three living masons).

This makes me pause and wonder where the mafia kill went. It could be Math's team no killing to take advantage of the Flavor Leaf wagons of the earlier days. Vote Count 2.1 has zero mafia of the three that are flipped. This tells mafia that this could be a juicy wagon if the evidence is there for a Flavor Leaf flip. With a misunderstanding of the rules regarding no killing, it would be simple enough for a Math team to no kill there assuming they could kill on nights 4 5 and 6.

In 2.3, we have the entire monkery on CSF. Flavor likely doesn't bus here if he's the mafia that goes deep. Why? Because wolves must kill or lim him at some point. Flavor bussing here makes no sense. Math ignoring this or any VCA is a huge point against him. If he was truly ignoring VCA but scumhunting, he could easily put forth a garbage theory that I'm mafia and FL is conftown. However, Math needs us both discredited. 2.3 points against Flavor being a mafia.

In 2.4 we have Monkeyman aka Math jumping on the Flavor wagon when it's a counter to known mafia. This is another indication that Flavor isn't mafia. Sure it

could be

Flavor is viewed as the more powerful mafia but CSF has the ability to confirm himself as not a wolf that he can trigger later in the game. CSF also has a power role separate from that. CSF has a role that can generate a fake claim as well. CSF is clearly the one with more strategic endgame value. So mafia would be saving CSF here. Math's slot is voting Flavor. This is in line with the opportunity theory.

2.6 CSF only comes on Flavor as his own wagon takes off.

3.2 Flavor Leaf and CSF are voting next to each other. This is a minor factor in Flavor not being scum.

4.3 Mathblade jumping back on after someone else is voting Flavor. This is right after Cephrir publicly explains the kill mechanic. This revives the possibility of framing Flavor Leaf. His policy immediately changes after getting an answer from Cephrir supposedly. If Math solidly believed his mechanics with illogical play (mafia shoot a monk before masons), his mechanic belief would remain. Not true.


So strategically Math makes more sense as a mafia than Flavor.

As for StD, the play doesn't fit their profile as scum. There's only a handful of players capable of manipulating the mechanics to this extent. Under scenario A, I don't see a way StD is plausibly scum because the play is so far out of their range.

Scenario B - Supposing Math's TMI on Mafia shooting SCP is correct.
Let's change the assumed mechanics a bit.
mastina blocks wolves N1, but can't out without claiming scum (meaning she blocked a deep wolf) or she doesn't know if a cleric was in play so she could be outing for no reason.
Flavor shoots catboi N1.
Mafia no kills.

butterchurn killed by wolves and mafia.
mastina killed by flavor

n3 - wolves must no kill.
mafia kills SCP to try and frame Flavor and get rid of a vocal critic.

In this scenario, Math claims that mastina acted suboptimally by not using her block n1. This gives Math an out to claim another player is ascetic. Math uses this to set up a 1 v 1 with Klick and Flavor. He also argues the wolf kill is the mafia kill to keep Flavor alive as a viable miselimination. This buys Math a bit more time, since he knows that CSF likely doesn't endgame if he ever confirms himself as not a wolf. He has to endgame.

Then, once they both flip town, he argues there's some mastermind as mafia so he just points at me randomly knowing that people fear my scumgame.

A lot of the VCA carries over from that.

Ranking of plausibility of mafia between SCP FL and Math

SCP

- Not very. Votes don't stand out except for the monkery agreeing on a slot that could buy itself time. Not the move SCP would make given it would leave no endgame scum.

Flavor

- Same reasons but Flavor would be caught in an impossible situation as no one could endgame once CSF claimed. With Enchant going down, eliminating mastina would be dumb as

she's would be the only scum that's not a mandated wolf kill

. Mechanically he makes sense, but I can't put together a series of smart actions where Flavor is actually scum. I have to give him some plausibility due to mechanics but not a strong likelihood.

Math

- Math makes the most sense supposing that all scum act rationally. He's got the gumption to do it. He's got other issues too regarding his claim and play generally (which also places him as possible wolf). He makes a lot of sense as mafia though to ride to end game on mastina's block.

[Nashville Dreams]

Wolves could have shot Mastina Night 1, Mastina could have roleblocked wolves night 1.

Mastina could have roleblocked scum Night 2, Wolves could have shot at Mastina Night 2.

Mathblade could have protected me from a wolf kill Night 3.

You say there's missing Night kills, but these are all possible for explaining how a night kill could have been stopped, and this isn't even counting possible double ups on kills.

this also doesn't include Wolves having a doctor or a roleblocker/stopper, or a role similar to Mastinas but for Mafia kills.

There are many possible alterations for missing Night Kills, and the majority of them dont require me shooting my own scum partner.

The fact people think that's the most likely scenario is ridiculous and a testimony to how much Mathblade has twisted the narrative.

I don't buy it simply because you shooting mastina gives no endgame scum given CSF's flip and usage of their power.

[Nashville Dreams]

Sword of Ducks and Menalque - 3.2 is interesting regarding sword of ducks. His counter is Menalque who I think is a wolf based on me v catboi. He's already confirmed vanilla. The apathy but still trying makes sense coming from town as opposed to Menalque who probably needs a prod. I'll be commenting more on this voting pattern though RE: today's votes because that's worthy of its own posts although it will only be a few paragraphs. If I'm wrong on Menalque being a wolf, then SoD opens up more as a suspect. SoD is definitely not the type of player to go for any funky mechanics stuff so I feel ok saying not a wolf. Of note: tictac and bnuuy who I think at least one is a wolf are split on the Menalque and SoD wagons.

Menalque sees that my wagon is dying out after my return to the game from real life. This is when he elects to get on in 1.17. When that stalls, he immediately goes to bnuuy. It reads of opportunism hoping to push out someone who felt catboi had to be the elimination and derail that train of thought to punish it. This is a big reason why butterchurn and I fought d2 is because he did everything in his power to deny that. I would have suspected that wolves, rather than mafia, would sheep butterchurn n2, however wolves were not under threat. Mafia were so that's who took the opportunity. I no longer had to be punished for debating a vote on catboi.

[Nashville Dreams]

Can you people stop posting and let me have the floor?

[Nashville Dreams]

They weren't pairing you with any others, they were going through the 3 most likely from their pov to be the last mafia.

Not even that. I was analyzing the monkery for if either of you two made sense as mafia. It logically made sense to dovetail into the math possibility given his push on you and mechanics. I had to factor in his thoughts. It might make sense if you had a path to endgame but that route is suicide for Flavor to follow now that we know CSF role couldn't last until endgame given he was forced to use it.

[Nashville Dreams]

Nero Cain - If anyone needs details, I can provide them. From Math's flail to the fact that Nero has many easy meta places to hide, I feel confident this is town Nero. I'm not even going through the VCA here but I suspects it supports my thoughs.

The Keeper - Interesting one. I don't know them well enough to totally rule them out as mafia, but I'm not in the mood for calithenics. Like 95% not mafia and that's good enough for anywhere but elo. Wolf is an interesting one. If the game state wasn't such a spam fest, I would be definitely down for forcing the gladiate. We're just not in a position to do so. Plus, having the threat around is good. However, there's no way to verify if the gladiate is real is to use it. That's a schrodinger's cat right there. To verify it's existence, we have to do the anti-town thing. Keeper doesn't seem confident enough in their reads to push a gladiate down yet, which I'm ok with. The game needs less heroes and less posts overall. I wish I could get more of a feel for them, but it's hard with the baggage. Nailing another wolf would allow me to get a stronger read here. - Lean town for now.

bnuuy and tictac - They have very odd pairings with the votes. At least once they were neighbors, which suggests not both wolves. Both were run up and failed d1. Yet by play, neither has provided a lot. Some of that could be due to the gamestate. bnuuy being a counter to catboi with Wallpaper (now Nero) on catboi and Menalque on bnuuy gives me an idea.

Fos: Menalque and tictac as partners.

tictac (6) | SCP 682, Ydrasse, Nashville Dreams, Flavor Leaf, Save The Dragons, butterchurn

bnuuy (5) | mastina, Klick, Menalque, cassowary, catboi

We have the entire monkery on tictac yet no wolves jump on. We have butterchurn on tictac now which makes butterchurn a null in this. He may have just been settling for not catboi at this point.

That becomes particularly apparent when Toog becomes a wagon. We find menalque abandoning the bnuuy wagon to go to town toog.

Looking at the analysis there's a strong case for both Menalque and tictac being wolves.

[Nashville Dreams]

Guys can you pleasae slow down and stfu and engage my posts regarding things please?

[Nashville Dreams]

I forgot toog takes so long to hammer when competed against catboi (pure no wolves wagon) because wolves were already on the Toog wagon.

[Nashville Dreams]

Math and Klick - Wolves section

Now here's where we get into more of math's bullshit as a whole.

Let's start with this claim. It's a claim that's a) more powerful than anything else b) can morph into anything else c) gives him powerful saving capabilities in a game where the nightkills are telegraphed. He doesn't play it like that though.

He plays constructive to a narrative. He would investigate the possibility that I was mafia if he wasn't desperate to survive. He knows that he can't easily be crosskilled because mafia/wolves cannot take the risk so he says whatever he can to survive the day phase and leaves himself utterly prepared to survive the day phase.

His play insisting the mechanics are true might be TMI. The insistence that mafia shot SCP otherwise makes no sense unless he's claiming that he didn't shoot them (or that he did as mafia see the math as mafia discussion)

Monkeyman's voting patterns are not stellar for Mathblade. Monkeyman, despite being active, vote parked catboi until it was going to go through. Then he bails to tictac. This is a Mathblade bnuuy setup.

Mathblade hard townreading bnuuy and trying to force an elimination between himself and FL protects bnuuy and buys time for the third wolf to survive. He knows that if he flips wolf that we'll likely flip FL anyway due to the mechanical situation suggesting that FL is scum and no viable alternative despite that not making much sense. He wants to stop hunting.

The order of Math's usage of his role makes no sense either.

I'm not going into exquisite detail here because I've already said a lot of this in the past.

[Nashville Dreams]

Menalque probably Mafia.

I killed Catboi, I killed Mastina. I hard pushed and lead CSF on Day 2.

I have called out Math, TicTac, and Bnuuy as the rest of the wolves.

Other than Enchant and Butter, I am a leading factor pushing 7/9 scum.

You can dislike me and how I play, but out of 3 of the 4 group scum pushed, I was one of the, if not, the biggest ones pushing each of them.

You can check how my other town games where I am doing well on work, and in those games I am constantly under fire.


Keep in mind, CSF targeted Menalque Night 2, and Menalque is the one to come out and say "CSF is not a wolf!", and then the next night, I am the one who got the message, the one who was pushing CSF the most."

Why did Menalque get that?

Who got the message on Night 1?

Menalque is Mafia.

Mathblade, TicTac, and Bnuuy are wolves.

I can give you Math and Bnuuy.
I can give you Menalque and tictac.

I can't give you tictac and bnuuy.

[Nashville Dreams]

I forgot Klick up there.

Math could be buying Klick's vote. Klick is a required kill for mafia to endgame. If Klick is a wolf with Mathblade, then Mathblade should always be flipped first or Klick will be shot. Klick's a no go for me as wolf. They're a mason. Not interested unless we get to an elo with Klick and Math alive. Then I'll speculate about another cleric.

[Nashville Dreams]

Ok, I think I have said my pieces. I'd love some feedback on my reads on an individual level.

[Nashville Dreams]

Menalque probably Mafia.

I killed Catboi, I killed Mastina. I hard pushed and lead CSF on Day 2.

I have called out Math, TicTac, and Bnuuy as the rest of the wolves.

Other than Enchant and Butter, I am a leading factor pushing 7/9 scum.

You can dislike me and how I play, but out of 3 of the 4 group scum pushed, I was one of the, if not, the biggest ones pushing each of them.

You can check how my other town games where I am doing well on work, and in those games I am constantly under fire.


Keep in mind, CSF targeted Menalque Night 2, and Menalque is the one to come out and say "CSF is not a wolf!", and then the next night, I am the one who got the message, the one who was pushing CSF the most."

Why did Menalque get that?

Who got the message on Night 1?

Menalque is Mafia.

Mathblade, TicTac, and Bnuuy are wolves.

I can give you Math and Bnuuy.
I can give you Menalque and tictac.

I can't give you tictac and bnuuy.

Then one of them are the Mafia. Either way, fading in those 4 wins this game.

I don't see a setup in those four where anyone but Math or menalque is mafia and then that gives me a team that makes no sense according to my VCA. I can see both tictac and bnuuy as scum but not them both together. Particularly with their push jointly with Mathblade.

[Nashville Dreams]

10817 - Titus Wall/VCA is honestly as expected.

Smart actions aren't always the best actions though, and you know that.

True, but I can't see Flavor taking a series of actions that nets his team a near zero percent win chance on n2. It made more sense prior to the CSF flip but now....

Then, I suppose smart choices and end up at Math.

[Nashville Dreams]

StD I'd love your feedback on my thoughts. I know they're in multiple posts but my focus is too hard to keep posting in one.

[Nashville Dreams]

Keeper, if you're town and hellbent on Flavor, you'll need to tell me Flavor's endgame plan. Fade Math (hope he's wolf), shoot another wolf, hope wolves shoot StD....

That leaves 6 town 2 w, 1 m

Then he has to convince people he's not the last mafia without a viable suspect while eliminating another wolf.

That generates 6 t 1 w 1 m.

Then he has to convince town to eliminate itself, pray for both scum to hit down.

That creates a 3 t 1 w 1 m

Then he has to eliminate the last wolf, resulting in an elo... where he has to put forth another mafia despite the mechanics.

If Flavor pulls that chain off, he deserves a scummy.

[Nashville Dreams]

The Keeper - Interesting one. I don't know them well enough to totally rule them out as mafia, but I'm not in the mood for calithenics. Like 95% not mafia and that's good enough for anywhere but elo. Wolf is an interesting one. If the game state wasn't such a spam fest, I would be definitely down for forcing the gladiate. We're just not in a position to do so. Plus, having the threat around is good. However, there's no way to verify if the gladiate is real is to use it. That's a schrodinger's cat right there. To verify it's existence, we have to do the anti-town thing. Keeper doesn't seem confident enough in their reads to push a gladiate down yet, which I'm ok with. The game needs less heroes and less posts overall. I wish I could get more of a feel for them, but it's hard with the baggage. Nailing another wolf would allow me to get a stronger read here. - Lean town for now.

I'm Flea with gimmicks - Does that change anything?

No because my brain isn't really wired for that but I appreciate the reach out.

[Nashville Dreams]

Keeper, if you're town and hellbent on Flavor, you'll need to tell me Flavor's endgame plan. Fade Math (hope he's wolf), shoot another wolf, hope wolves shoot StD....

That leaves 6 town 2 w, 1 m

Then he has to convince people he's not the last mafia without a viable suspect while eliminating another wolf.

That generates 6 t 1 w 1 m.

Then he has to convince town to eliminate itself, pray for both scum to hit down.

That creates a 3 t 1 w 1 m

Then he has to eliminate the last wolf, resulting in an elo... where he has to put forth another mafia despite the mechanics.

If Flavor pulls that chain off, he deserves a scummy.

He can just be screwed scum

Who deliberately screwed himself night 2?

Who is mafia if FL is town?

[Nashville Dreams]

Math and Klick - Wolves section

Now here's where we get into more of math's bullshit as a whole.

Let's start with this claim. It's a claim that's a) more powerful than anything else b) can morph into anything else c) gives him powerful saving capabilities in a game where the nightkills are telegraphed. He doesn't play it like that though.

He plays constructive to a narrative. He would investigate the possibility that I was mafia if he wasn't desperate to survive. He knows that he can't easily be crosskilled because mafia/wolves cannot take the risk so he says whatever he can to survive the day phase and leaves himself utterly prepared to survive the day phase.

His play insisting the mechanics are true might be TMI. The insistence that mafia shot SCP otherwise makes no sense unless he's claiming that he didn't shoot them (or that he did as mafia see the math as mafia discussion)

Monkeyman's voting patterns are not stellar for Mathblade. Monkeyman, despite being active, vote parked catboi until it was going to go through. Then he bails to tictac. This is a Mathblade bnuuy setup.

Mathblade hard townreading bnuuy and trying to force an elimination between himself and FL protects bnuuy and buys time for the third wolf to survive. He knows that if he flips wolf that we'll likely flip FL anyway due to the mechanical situation suggesting that FL is scum and no viable alternative despite that not making much sense. He wants to stop hunting.

The order of Math's usage of his role makes no sense either.

I'm not going into exquisite detail here because I've already said a lot of this in the past.

MB has claimed a gate which honestly reads to me as an Enabler is required and MB potentially has knowledge of who that is. It matches FL's claimed gate of "Monks must live". The other thing is I don't think MB's enabler knows who they are or that MB knows their alignment.

Then who would it be and why wouldn't they claim during mass claim knowing that I'd guilty them?

[Nashville Dreams]

Can you stop responding to Math too FL? It spammed out my notes.

[Nashville Dreams]

I hated Monkeymans slot and had a bad gut ping there that wouldn't stop, normally that's enough for me to go ham and throw that slot out. That said, someone tell me why MB goes this freaking hard on the FL lim as scum when he can just shoot the slot and have done?

As Wolf, he genuinely thinks FL is mafia. He needs to protect his partners to ensure an advantageous position. That's why he has chained me after FL to protect whomever is his teammates in Menalque tictac bnuuy SoD...

As Mafia, he needs to obscure the trail of night actions leading to him. So he pops the big suspect counting on wolves helping bc FL is a required kill. The other suspect he wants is the person smart enough to analyze NKs.

[Nashville Dreams]

I suspect the enabler doesn't know.

An enabler that thinks they're vanilla?

[Nashville Dreams]

ND I dunno what to say is there any specific thing you want me to respond to?

It's hard to ask for something specific when I'm trying to sync up reads with you guys. I want to understand and get an idea since there's likely no real protectives left and that means kills are telegraphed so I'm not going to have you soon.

I wish Klick and tictac to see my notes too.

That's fair on the nightkills thing. I don't even expect to be 100% flawless on the mechanics but I expect every action to be smart.

[Nashville Dreams]

Math, I don't want a response to this in case you're town. All I'm going to do is lay down my problems here. I'm not drawing any conclusions in this post, although I do state where I strongly lean.

The problem I have with FL being mafia is that he deliberately made the play where his team would have no way out. Skilled persuader or not, I can't see him boxing himself in. FL will almost certainly be dead on n5/n6 or n7 if not eliminated today because of the fact wolves are leading and he's one of the last two slots that can be a wolf. It just doesn't make sense.

The best way I can make the kills make sense is that you're a wolf. That still doesn't really leave me with a strong mafia suspect though. If mastina had blocked you n1 and you were a wolf going for a kill, then the missing kill n3 is the wolf kill. That was what you were posturing when you pushed FL had to be shot by wolves. Then there's no missing kill problem. The only problem is that you lied about investigating Klick n2. You telling one lie that's not verifiable is much easier to swallow than Flavor torpedoing his chances to win deliberately.

There's also a setup where you're mafia and you went all in to frame Flavor. It's my best suspicion for mafia but I'm still unsettled by it as it requires mafia forgoing a kill just go get a lim off and not having a strong push D4. The closest, according to the VCA, is you voting on after someone else. Yet, CSF stays on the counterwagon the entire time. If you were truly going all in to eliminate Flavor D4, then I'd expect CSF not to be sabotaging those efforts by voting cassowary.

None of the answers are satisfactory and you repeating your mech analysis won't change the fundamental issues that the plays just don't make sense on an intuitive level.

[Nashville Dreams]

Fl cannot be a wolf.

If you’re town please revise your thinking. He’s mafia (this) or town

we know he cant be a ww b/c of OMGOSHICANTREMEMBERHERMAIN FEY'S role

[Nashville Dreams]

jesus this is still the mathblade and flavor leaf pissing context with commentary. damn!

im sick of it tbh

thats how the wolves are hiding bc of this fucking crap

[Nashville Dreams]

nice pagetop for that

[Nashville Dreams]

Fl cannot be a wolf.

If you’re town please revise your thinking. He’s mafia (this) or town

we know he cant be a ww b/c of OMGOSHICANTREMEMBERHERMAIN FEY'S role

Then why did you just suggest he was one of two players who could be a wolf?

That's a typo. Check context.

[Nashville Dreams]

We could get Keeper too but he waffles. I get wanting to move off, but Keeper has vetoed it. We can force the issue of Menalque tictac Bnuuy etc tmo.

[Nashville Dreams]

jesus this is still the mathblade and flavor leaf pissing context with commentary. damn!

im sick of it tbh

thats how the wolves are hiding bc of this fucking crap

You’re defending FL Mala

You or Titus just posted absolute crap

You’re pushing that I am lying and a non proven not existen role exists and a mafia no kill

Vs the simple

FL is a liar

If it has anything remotely approaching grammar or setup spec it's me 99/100 times.

Second, the fact you replied to a post that specifically asked you not to reply to clarify a comment that was clearly a typo is just side eye. Just stop and think ffs.

Nero Klick Keeper, can we end today please?

~Titus

[Nashville Dreams]

I really wish scum would shoot fl and math for us, but nope town cant get that lucky

[Nashville Dreams]

math you should know me by now that i dont do setup spec

in fact i run the other way once its mentioned

[Nashville Dreams]

Oh the reply i could do right now, but i'm choosing to behave.

[Nashville Dreams]

Would be hilarious if Math tried to shoot me, but Mega protected me

Math would have to be mafia and that leaves mafia shooting a monk. Wolves shot CSF most likely. It would be funny but not plausible for Math to have shot you.

FL, just let Math have his "last word" that anyone doesn't respond to. We just focus on unity. People aren't gearing anything new from us. We discussed our wolf reads.

@SoD, I had a follow up too but it would be risque.

[Nashville Dreams]

Nero, can you revote Math? I want out of this day before Math is the highest poster in the game. He already passed our hydra.

[Nashville Dreams]

Oh the reply i could do right now, but i'm choosing to behave.

Well it wasn't my choice to wake up at 10 pm in a shitposting mood either.

isn't my choice to have to give a report to someone who i'm trying so hard to distance from, but here we are.

I'm still biting my tongue because one of either titus or math would smack me >:

[Nashville Dreams]

I'm p sure if i was scum i wouldnt have lived this far in this playerlist tbh

[Nashville Dreams]

Whatever happens, happens. I'm worn down at this point.

~Titus

[Nashville Dreams]

Town has to work directly with Mafia today and Mafia has to aim for a wolf at night if we miss

Disagree but I was wrong on setup spec.

Both sides likely cannot kill tonight. (Kills on nights 4 and 5).
Flipping a mafia puts us at 3 scum 7 alive.
We could shoot for a wolf today, but we'd have to flip mafia tomorrow unless I am wrong somewhere.

~Titus

[Nashville Dreams]

Ah yes, the kill reduction thing

We don't particularly need to aim for Mafia at all when Mafia has incentive to shoot Wolves
Also, Mafia probably recognises that they need to basically townie at the moment because this town is not getting it done during the day

Hard disagree. Mafia have their kills dictated. You're confirmed not wolf.

[Nashville Dreams]

I think we should follow your opinion on who the wolves are. However, FL is just going to say tictac. That's in his interest. Tictac may be a wolf, but his position is telegraphed.

[Nashville Dreams]

Unless we’re confident we can hit 2 scum in a row going for the last mafia seems more sensible

We’re at 4:3:1 rn
Hitting a wolf and a town leaves us at 3:2:1
If the kills go poorly n7 we lose that night with those numbers going in

Meanwhile if we hit mafia today tomorrow is 7p ELo, which while still tense is more skill-dependent of an outcome

Skill-dependent doesn't trump the odds being strictly lower for town winning.

I also don't think Flavor Leaf or anyone else is confirmed Mafia enough for us to specifically aim at them. I can see this as reasoning to aim in people who could be either scum, but I'm not going to vote for Flavor Leaf today.

I think FL is the default elimination if nothing else feels good today. Given how strongly Math felt, despite his inaccuracies previously, we have to at least consider Flavor but not lock it in.

[Nashville Dreams]

If we eliminate wolves, we go to 4:2:1.
Then, if we eliminate a wolf, 4:1:1.
Scum kill 2 town, kingmaker 2:1:1
Wolves kill mafia, mafia kill town or vice versa 3:1 mylo. [Mafia have no incentive to shoot a wolf unless they feel they win kingmaker AND scum won't shoot them.]
Wolves kill mafia, mafia kill wolves town win.

If we hit a town 3:3:1 this requires mafia to townside to win
Need mafia help to hit a wolf. 3:2:1
Then wolves shoot mafia, mafia hits wolf 2:1 elo

[Nashville Dreams]

Menalque probably Mafia.

I killed Catboi, I killed Mastina. I hard pushed and lead CSF on Day 2.

I have called out Math, TicTac, and Bnuuy as the rest of the wolves.

Other than Enchant and Butter, I am a leading factor pushing 7/9 scum.

You can dislike me and how I play, but out of 3 of the 4 group scum pushed, I was one of the, if not, the biggest ones pushing each of them.

You can check how my other town games where I am doing well on work, and in those games I am constantly under fire.


Keep in mind, CSF targeted Menalque Night 2, and Menalque is the one to come out and say "CSF is not a wolf!", and then the next night, I am the one who got the message, the one who was pushing CSF the most."

Why did Menalque get that?

Who got the message on Night 1?

Menalque is Mafia.

Mathblade, TicTac, and Bnuuy are wolves.

I can give you Math and Bnuuy.
I can give you Menalque and tictac.

I can't give you tictac and bnuuy.

Then one of them are the Mafia. Either way, fading in those 4 wins this game.

I don't see a setup in those four where anyone but Math or menalque is mafia and then that gives me a team that makes no sense according to my VCA. I can see both tictac and bnuuy as scum but not them both together. Particularly with their push jointly with Mathblade.

This is what I see Flavor. Am I right or wrong?

[Nashville Dreams]

Also Flavor, do you see any chance we accidentally eliminate a mafia today?

[Nashville Dreams]

I forgot to mention bunny is a vanilla.

Can you talk about your Sword read?

[Nashville Dreams]

I follow on a vt parallel.

The only way I see Tictac parralel is if you're last mafia.

[Nashville Dreams]

Idk, I think a Vanilla is a Wolf here, and we only have Bnuuy/Sword for Vanilla, right?

We have Menalque here as well.

[Nashville Dreams]

Vanilla I believe but I am pretty sure Nero's town.

[Nashville Dreams]

Enchant, Mafia Goon,
mastina, Mafia Loathed 2-shot Activated Wolfsbane 1-shot Roleblocker
Cat Scratch Fever, Mafia Silversmith 1-shot Personal Janitor

????? Maf Goon


Catboi, Werewolf 1-shot Bookie,

Bnuuy, Wolf Goon
TicTac, Wolf Mason
????? Wolf Protective/Block?

butterchurn, Malefactor 1-shot Watcher,

is where I'm leaning right now.

what were all your actions, Titus?

N1 SoD vanilla
N2 mastina not vanilla dead
N3 cassowary not vanilla
N4 Keeper not vanilla
N5 Bnuuy vanilla

[Nashville Dreams]

Flavor, I'm seeing a lot of inconsistencies in your reads.

You have Sword at extremely likely town but he's your goon choice. You're using setup spec to determine a lot of your reads rather than relationships with other players. I want to trust your wolf reads but I can't with issues like that. Is your goal to eliminate mafia or a wolf today?

[Nashville Dreams]

Klick, I get sorting me but how can you not see that SoD vote as scummy?

[Nashville Dreams]

I don't trust FL. Although wordy, his reads are a pile of omgus.

I do feel parts of the PoE are accurate though. I just am not as certain on SoD.

I think FL mafia, Klick conftown, Freedom probtown

PoE SoD tictac bnuuy Menalque

[Nashville Dreams]

By the way, @tictac, could you please link the posts which detailed a guilty on FL?

Both klick and mathblade claim FL had a gun I believe

[Nashville Dreams]

@Nashville - I flip green, then what is your wolf solve/mafia pick?

I would be so far gone, I'd have to rethink.

[Nashville Dreams]

If I had to guess mafia would be SoD with wolves as the same pool but I'd literally have to start over if you were town FL.

[Nashville Dreams]

So your proposition is to no lim?

[Nashville Dreams]

Flavor, ftr you think the team is Menalque, tictac and bnuuy and they're relying on my vote to eliminate you?

[Nashville Dreams]

@Klick, you but I had my brain on sideways thinking your suggestion to crosskill was a suggestion to no elim.

[Nashville Dreams]

the fact that math was convinced on FL scum and we now know math was 100% town and is a good player

Math's explanations for things were blatantly false in several areas. I do not trust Math's judgement.


Let's talk a bit more about 4-3 vs 4-2-1. I think the latter is faaaar better a position for town.

I agree but it requires coordination.

If we don't feel like there is coordination, then we do have an awkward choice of no limming twice. *does math*

Force the wolves to shoot Flavor and force the Mafia to shoot in Klick/tictac (although the Keeper kill was a bit of an abberation).

3:2:1 if Flavor town, mafia hit scum
3:3 if wolves hit mafia, mafia hits town
3:2:0 if sides crosskill

Nevermind, we have to lim.

[Nashville Dreams]

Flavor, ftr you think the team is Menalque, tictac and bnuuy and they're relying on my vote to eliminate you?

Why would they rely on your vote?

They can get any two people to vote me.

Assuming you're town, the mobsters vote is built in. Add 3 wolves. 4 votes. They only need 1 more.

[Nashville Dreams]

Klick, you want to investigate Menalque? Let's do it. I'm not locking there but let's see what happens.

VOTE: Menalque

~Titus

[Nashville Dreams]

Do you want to experiment with me on Menalque Flavor?

[Nashville Dreams]

I'll be limited access tmo but may check from time to time.

Klick put me where you need me.

~Titus

[Nashville Dreams]

UNVOTE: Menalque

Probably shouldn't have this vote on when I'll be afk.

[Nashville Dreams]

A policy lim shouldn't go through when the behavior is resolved.

@Menalque, I don't believe you mentioned this policy earlier, why not? If you did when?

[Nashville Dreams]

Freedom are you an alt?

[Nashville Dreams]

@Menalque, Bnuuy, tictac - Are all 3 of you locked into vorltibg Flavor?

[Nashville Dreams]

I don't know why the concept of being 'locked into voting Flavor' has entered the conversation

If the three of them were locked, Flavor is the only viable lim if I did my math right.

[Nashville Dreams]

But what basis did you have for thinking they might be locked?

No one's locked into anything when half the living players are scum. We're following a town voice today. Going rogue is equivalent to scumsiding at the moment.

Menalque's statement he would only accept an FL lim.

[Nashville Dreams]

While I agree and would likely go along with the lim of tictac Menalque or Bnnuuy, I don't like being told what to do for the record. Klick dominating today's lim makes it near impossible to investigate Sword and Freedom.

[Nashville Dreams]

I need to look at nearby posts for context but if 1837 is true then it's not good unless SoD was trolling. I'm not the best at detecting it. If not trolling, SoD is at a minimum careless.

~Titus

[Nashville Dreams]

I'm fine with moving along. I could use a night phase to recover from real life and get reinvested into the game. I just worked 30 out of the last 34 hours.

~Titus

[Nashville Dreams]

Bnuuy it is.

[Nashville Dreams]

On the flip side, let’s say we flip FL maf today

Go into night and it’s 3-3

We lose

I think town is lost either way, but I guess probably the best is flip wolf today and hope the scum fuck up?

This is wrong. There are only 2 wolves alive.

[Nashville Dreams]

If we lim FL, we go to 2 wolves in 5 alive. Elo.

[Nashville Dreams]

If we lim FL, we go to 2 wolves in 5 alive. Elo.

You do realise that you're part of some people's PoE, right?

If we lim a Werewolf today, you're most likely to become the next lim with the way people's reads are currently going.

Yes, but I can't play like that. The goal has to be lim scum first and hopefully show I am town that way. The goal is to keep us in control.

[Nashville Dreams]

VLA 48 hours

Here's the situation, we're both working.
Wolves and mafia get kills tonight if not limmed.
Limming wolves puts us in prisoners dillema. 4 1 1.
Nightkills can become 4 0 0
2 1 1 or 3 2.
Limming mafia puts us in 4 2. Which becomes 3 2.

Safer play is to eliminate mafia.
Mafia want a wolf limmed or town.
Wolves settle for town but want mafia.

[Nashville Dreams]

I think we lim Flavor here as I think he's mafia. I'm not 100% sure given Math's history.

We can't no lim and we can't risk a town elim. No lim puts us at 4 2 1. Then wolves shoot mafia. Mafia shoots town. 3 2 or mafia shoots scum 4 1 1. This is crosskill hope at best. Might as well eliminate tictac.

[Nashville Dreams]

What an interesting situation we've found ourselves in.

Agreed. Something's off about the positions here but I can't put my finger on it.

[Nashville Dreams]

Yeah I'm not interested in aiming for wolves today. That can be Mafia's problem if we miss, it shouldn't be too hard at that point. I want to hit Mafia.

I'm still not sold that FL is like, *comfirmed* Mafia, but that is currently my highest suspicion. I know tictac thinks it's just FL. I'm interested if anyone has other suspicions.

I think mafia and a wolf are in the voters on me and I went wrong somewhere but I'm not 100% certain. I think I've outgrown my usefulness to them and they're scared of what I'll do once recovered.

Take note that my wagons are directly related to activity level.

[Nashville Dreams]

The fact that I'm open to Flavor not being mafia but possibly seeing he is likely scares the actual mafia. Flavor's sudden swap on me today and claiming my suspicion on him is somehow novel is troublesome. The problem is that 2/3 of the scum feel too easy. I need my energy back but it's not coming.

[Nashville Dreams]

The fact that I'm open to Flavor not being mafia but possibly seeing he is likely scares the actual mafia. Flavor's sudden swap on me today and claiming my suspicion on him is somehow novel is troublesome. The problem is that 2/3 of the scum feel too easy. I need my energy back but it's not coming.

@ND - I have tried to get Menalque and TicTac prior to going after you, and I have yet to vote you this day phase.

I may have you in the line, but by no means are you the main one. You are like the last scum to me, by poe mostly.

TicTac is setting you up to look like a wolf if you are not a wolf.

I find this likely regarding tictac. Klick's worries are reasonable. I find it problematic that people are taking advantage of my judge style approach that particularly comes out when I'm feeling ill (mentally or physically). I usually defer to those in better places but that makes me an easier lim here.

[Nashville Dreams]

I really don’t think I make it through the night, though.

VOTE: TicTac

Just hit scum, and let the chips fall.

@Sword - TicTac moved off of Nashville, which is something I was testing.

Quite likely you don't, which is why I haven't voted you. The catch is that if I'm unsure if you're mafia, I am struggling to figure out where I should vote. If we vote you and you're town, then we go to 3 2 1.
Mafia must shoot a wolf. Wolves can shoot either but probably try for mafia.
If either misses, we either lose to wolves or go 2 1 1 kingmaker.

If we lim tictac and he flips wolf as expected, then wolves shoot you incorrectly. That puts us at 3 1 1 with mafia shot unknown. If mafia miss 2 1 1 kingmaker.

[Nashville Dreams]

If mafia go for wolf and know the final wolf, then they have an elo which still gives town a chance.

I think we must elim mafia today but I am not sure who it is.

Feel free to check my math but I'd like Klick to as well.

[Nashville Dreams]

If Flavor is town, my money's on SoD for mafia. There's a stark lack of commentary that sticks out in my mind re: Flavor but that could be my illness.

[Nashville Dreams]

If Flavor town, tictac melanque wolves, SoD mafia. Well change Flavor and SoD if he's scum. I could be wrong on Freedom but it's remote. Nero recognized town me and I feel he always does as town. He could have easily tunneled and faked his town meta.

[Nashville Dreams]

2 1 1 kingmaker.

town wins in this scenario most of the time by No Fading.

Not if one or both miss. The game is out of our control. I'd rather remain in control.

[Nashville Dreams]

If Flavor is town, my money's on SoD for mafia. There's a stark lack of commentary that sticks out in my mind re: Flavor but that could be my illness.

Why?

The lack of commentary puts you in an ideal position. If Flavor's town, you can settle for a lim there. That's exactly mafia's backup if they can't get a wolf. The downside is pushing it (because Klick wants mafia) could out you as real mafia to the wolves as their pool to shoot shrinks and the game shifts drsmatically. Not FoSing or searching elsewhere limits the prople you upset benefitting mafia.

[Nashville Dreams]

I'm preferring FL here but I'm following Klick's lead. I briefly saw Klick said no Menalque so it's Flavor or tictac.

[Nashville Dreams]

We kill tictac, wolf, Menalque and Flavor shoot each other because Mel hates Leaf with a passion, draw. We kill tictac, Mel kills Nash, we win outright.

That could be a thing.

[Nashville Dreams]

SoD Vanilla
Mastina not vanilla
Cassowary not vanilla
Keeper not vanilla
Bnuuy vanilla
Menalque vanilla
Freedom not vanilla

[Nashville Dreams]

The answers in your court Klick. Will vote or wait it out as you see fit.

[Nashville Dreams]

@Klick, Nero Cain always FoSes me as town. It doesn't matter his alignment. You can check every single game we are in together. He FoSes me. He didn't here.

Also, the distancing thing is absolutely expected when Nero's whole team was going down in flames.

As for 11692, I don't feel I have a townrange or a scumrange. It's more about my relationships. So I'm not going to pretend there's a magical towntell for reading me.

[Nashville Dreams]

*It doesn't matter my alignment

[Nashville Dreams]

But a genuine Vanilla Cop would've gotten me as Vanilla.
There's no way for them to have gotten me as not one.

must have been a mod fuck up then b/c its what we got.....

as for klick can we unvote because I really don't trust people not to randomly quickelim and lose the game....

[Nashville Dreams]

SoD Vanilla
Mastina not vanilla
Cassowary not vanilla
Keeper not vanilla
Bnuuy vanilla
Menalque vanilla
Freedom not vanilla

Something I'm particularly bothered by is that every single result Nashville has given is confirming (or in Freedom's case, refuting) the claim of someone who had already claimed in the thread.

I largely unilaterally made the choices towards the later half.

I deliberately wanted to target outed roles to confirm or deny scum as it is highest utility. People pushed Sword, and I think Freedom did in particular (if memory serves), but I didn't want to eliminate my match. If mastina was a vanilla, they'd be outed scum. Cassowary got a nonvanilla result, when we suspected most town would be vanilla. Hence the minor FoS.

Afterwards, we massclaimed, so we could only confirm or deny. That's the point of a VC.

[Nashville Dreams]

By the way, can anybody explain why scum!me doesn't just NK Klick instead of FL? It is more beneficial if scum!me wants to win.

I'd like to hear a response to this from Nashville

Absolutely not. Scum freedom has to gamble on FL not shooting him because of no draw rules that have been highlighted. We're an easy miselimination.

[Nashville Dreams]

votecount 1.1

catboi (6) | Menalque, NorwegianboyEE, MonkeyMan576, Wallflower, Sword of Ducks, MalcolmTucker
MonkeyMan576 (2) | tictac, butterchurn
Sword of Ducks (2) | catboi, Nashville Dreams
bnuuy (2) | Save The Dragons, Klick
Save The Dragons (1) | bnuuy
MalcolmTucker (1) | Cat Scratch Fever
Wallflower (1) | Tracer Bullet

Not Voting | cassowary, Enchant, Flavor Leaf, MegAzumarill, momo, Well Done, The Keeper, mastina

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to politely ask someone to leave.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-05-09 09:41:00).

votecount 1.8

catboi (6) | tictac, Tracer Bullet, MegAzumarill, Toogeloo, Flavor Leaf, MonkeyMan576

Nashville Dreams (4) | NorwegianboyEE, Save The Dragons, Wallflower, butterchurn

MonkeyMan576 (3) | Nashville Dreams, cassowary, bnuuy

bnuuy (2) | Menalque, catboi

Wallflower (1) | MalcolmTucker
Save The Dragons (1) | The Keeper
Menalque (1) | Well Done
MegAzumarill (1) | Cat Scratch Fever

Not Voting | Enchant, mastina, Sword of Ducks, Klick

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to politely ask someone to leave.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-05-09 09:41:00).

votecount 1.14

catboi (6) | MegAzumarill, MonkeyMan576, Flavor Leaf, tictac, Wallflower, Toogeloo

Nashville Dreams (5) | NorwegianboyEE, butterchurn, Save The Dragons, Cat Scratch Fever, Well Done

MonkeyMan576 (3) | Nashville Dreams, cassowary, bnuuy

tictac (2) | catboi, Menalque

Flavor Leaf (1) | Klick
Save The Dragons (1) | The Keeper
Well Done (1) | Sword of Ducks
The Keeper (1) | MalcolmTucker
Wallflower (1) | SCP 682

Not Voting | Enchant, mastina

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to politely ask someone to leave.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-05-09 09:41:00).

Wallflower has requested replacement.

votecount 1.22

Toogeloo (7) | SCP 682, Ydrasse, Menalque, butterchurn, tictac, catboi, Save The Dragons

tictac (4) | Nashville Dreams, Well Done, MonkeyMan576, Cat Scratch Fever

bnuuy (3) | mastina, Klick, cassowary

catboi (1) | Flavor Leaf
MonkeyMan576 (1) | bnuuy
Save The Dragons (1) | The Keeper
butterchurn (1) | Nero Cain
Ydrasse (1) | Sword of Ducks
mastina (1) | Toogeloo

Not Voting | Enchant, MegAzumarill, MalcolmTucker

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to politely ask someone to leave.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-05-09 09:41:00).

votecount 1.23

Toogeloo (10) | SCP 682, Ydrasse, Menalque, butterchurn, tictac, catboi, mastina, Klick, Sword of Ducks, Save The Dragons

catboi (6) | MonkeyMan576, Nero Cain, Nashville Dreams, Flavor Leaf, Toogeloo, Cat Scratch Fever

MonkeyMan576 (2) | bnuuy, The Keeper

The Keeper (1) | Enchant
Flavor Leaf (1) | Dunnstral

Not Voting | MegAzumarill, MalcolmTucker, cassowary

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to politely ask someone to leave.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-05-09 09:41:00).

Let's look at WallFlower's vote changes D1.

Almost everytime, WallFlower sheeps consensus and jumps on the new hot wagon. He avoids the tictac wagon though. He's willing to vote wolves, when it won't go through. He doesn't want to be caught on the actual miselimination going through.

In 4555, NC could vote tictac or bnuuy. Instead he votes Butter. The slot gets on in prime bussing territory and bails when it gets close.

[Nashville Dreams]

I deliberately wanted to target outed roles to confirm or deny scum as it is highest utility.

Would you consider this sort of the 'guiding principle' behind the choices you made?

Also is this Titus making these decisions?

Yes largely. I was following along Nero's paranoia that Keeper was not a gladiator due to Keeper's inaction.

Proper grammar = 90% or greater of being a Titus post.

[Nashville Dreams]

We are also missing a wolf roleblocker or the like.

[Nashville Dreams]

I thought it was Nero's by memory but I can't find it. Math had that too.

[Nashville Dreams]

It doesn't matter who Flavor would want to shoot last night. The wolf had a choice 2 v 1 v 1 or 3 v 1 if Flavor hit town. In a two v 1 v 1 setup, town no lims and the game is in Flavor's hands. In a 3 v 1 setup, the wolf survives one elimination. Who survives a single elimination easier? The slot widely townread.

[Nashville Dreams]

Flavor also townread us whenever we interacted at length, which means Flavor might shoot you in a 2 v 1 v 1.

[Nashville Dreams]

We are also missing a wolf roleblocker or the like.

By the way, when was a Werewolf Roleblocker mentioned specifically to exist?

It hasn't been and it doesn't specifically need to be a roleblocker per se but the wolf team has no ability to block kills or interrupt the occulist unless you're a roleblocker.

[Nashville Dreams]

SoD Vanilla
Mastina not vanilla
Cassowary not vanilla
Keeper not vanilla
Bnuuy vanilla
Menalque vanilla
Freedom not vanilla

But a genuine Vanilla Cop would've gotten me as Vanilla.
There's no way for them to have gotten me as not one.

must have been a mod fuck up then b/c its what we got.....

as for klick can we unvote because I really don't trust people not to randomly quickelim and lose the game....

This isn't a contradiction in our result. Mala's a bit in denial about you being scum, but she never denies our feedback. I thought about not even responding but letting your implied misrepresentation stand might have Klick think it was true or we had something to hide.

[Nashville Dreams]

I won’t vote yet in case ducks/freedom wanna respond to that

I would prefer tictac being limmed before FL.

I think there's very little reason for this as a wolf when just going for a FL vote probably just wins Freedom the game.

He still has one miselimination to go either way, plus you were in control at the time unquestionably. It's very easy to distance there when it wouldn't even cost a miselimination.

[Nashville Dreams]

I see.
Though, we could risk a no-lim today.
That results in tommorrow being a 2-1 ELO.
But then, you would need to decide tommorrow, if today ends in indecision.
But then, it's your choice so no pressure.

Rather just lim scum which is you

[Nashville Dreams]

I see.
Though, we could risk a no-lim today.
That results in tommorrow being a 2-1 ELO.
But then, you would need to decide tommorrow, if today ends in indecision.
But then, it's your choice so no pressure.

Rather just lim scum which is you