Mini Normal 2299 | Postgame [Village win]

[Alianna]

Good morning, beautiful village of death and darkness.

[Alianna]

Good morning, beautiful village of death and darkness.

VOTE: Alianna

Why don't you get used to the death

I think I just died laughing at that.

[Alianna]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

MURDERER!

[Alianna]

Hi folks

Working away at the moment so nothing big until later

VOTE: Emperor

You'll take part in RVS and you'll enjoy it or else

I seem to recall your stance on RVS being along the lines of “kill it with fire.” What changed?

[Alianna]

only 2 wolves hmm

must be a 3rd party then as well

Nah, he probably just slipped that it's a traitor game.

[Alianna]

Anyways, the clause about Scorched Earth. I don't believe I have seen it before. Is it a modslip that there is some kind of extra kill power role in the game?

As far as I can tell, it’s part of bianco’s standard ruleset. It accounts for the possibility of extra kills but I don’t think it suggests their existence.
Either way, we’ll find out if there’s extra kill power.

[Alianna]

sure flavor leaf can be villager

i do not exactly have any mechanics to theorycraft around so uh

i will be slightly lost during the rvs stage

FL town, DEB and I are the scum team.

Seems like a good start to help you out.

Also lol mech talk, amirite.

This is how we got onto that subject.

[Alianna]

I like RVS because I can vote myself and not get turbo-yeeted for it.

VOTE: Alianna

[Alianna]

Re: the mechanical discussion - I don't think there's much mechanical discussion to be had at this point.

[Alianna]

That made me realize something.

i would love to get out of rvs so i can actually do useful stuff

but i have not seen anything i can really use to do so yet
all i have is a town read on flavor leaf

p-edit
someone claimed wolf with another person
which is 2 people
and i somehow decided that meant it was a claim of only 2 scum in the team instead of the more logical but still joking assumption that they were just not claiming their entire team

This line in particular (along with 110) is making me do a double take. LAMIST vibes.

In combination with what you've pointed out, I think it's actually kind of sus.

VOTE: Theta Alpine

[Alianna]

Idk man check the VC

You did.

[Alianna]

Idk man check the VC

You did.

Care to join a Red wagon?

Maybe.
I don't think they're scummier than Theta though.

[Alianna]

i will also go ahead and say

pressure votes do not really work on me anyways
like i said i expect to get eliminated or night killed sooner or later so
you can get a claim for me if you put me up to e-1 but
it really is not going to change my behavior otherwise

Fair, I'm the same way.
I'm not voting you for pressure though, I'm voting you because you're sus.
Might re-evaluate tomorrow but I don't have the time right now.

[Alianna]

I read some of what Theta's saying as town, but at the same time most of it feels NAI. Should be able to determine my thoughts on them as the game goes on.

What in Theta's posts were you reading as town?

[Alianna]

Delta feels oddly subdued this game. I seem to remember them being more of a presence in the past.
Idk what that means yet.

[Alianna]

Delta feels oddly subdued this game. I seem to remember them being more of a presence in the past.
Idk what that means yet.

Meh, maybe they aren't. I should probably read everything before I say stuff like that.

[Alianna]

Dr Drew sussy if Theta scum btw.

Like at this point I'm into the Theta wagon because that's a possible associative right here. Kind of a weird blunt chainsaw defense.

I kind of like this theory.

[Alianna]

That moment when you have 8 people at dead null and Enchant isn't one of them.

[Alianna]

Town vibes.

[Alianna]

Do you have opinion?

I don't like cilantro, and like my coffee black

I like my coffee in bean form.

[Alianna]

@Drew - how are you reading Theta right now?

[Alianna]

@Drew - how are you reading Theta right now?

Still don't love her take on how she thinks she will die before game end, and she comes off as a bit rigid and fake in tone.

I wouldn't fight against her elim, but I feel like we need to explore Kitty and Flavor a bit(yes, my push for a wagon on Flavor is not a joke).

Not really feeling Kitty at the moment.
Why do you want a Flavor wagon? He's null for me, but I'd consider it.

[Alianna]

Then I don't have a compelling reason to move my vote.

[Alianna]

at least i am not lurking through rvs this game so far
i usually just did that if i remember correctly from back before my break

*snip*

@Alianna: I feel like this kind of thought process comes from a natural place, and while it could come from scum, I am more inclined to believe that it comes from town.

I don't see how that's towny. It's not even a read or a piece of analysis, it's just an observation about how their play this game differs from past games. Anyone can say something like that.

[Alianna]

Want to vote Mewtaph?

[Alianna]

Theta pings me a bit, but like
I probably am giving Delta a bit of a pass since I am not familiar with them at all, that and I have some noob vibes from them.

Was it just him coming after you?

I don't like the open implication of noob vibes here. It kind of feels like it's something that could be used in days to come to discredit me and any arguments I make, which I find quite... off.

Would appreciate you recanting this statement tbh.

Ninja'd: I still think Theta is the one we should take off the board today tbh.

I haven't dropped my suspicions of her by any means. Just considering other options.

[Alianna]

Also, @Delta - if you're that sure on Theta, have you got any thoughts on who might be scum with her?

[Alianna]

VOTE: Mewtaph

[Alianna]

at least i am not lurking through rvs this game so far
i usually just did that if i remember correctly from back before my break

*snip*

@Alianna: I feel like this kind of thought process comes from a natural place, and while it could come from scum, I am more inclined to believe that it comes from town.

I don't see how that's towny. It's not even a read or a piece of analysis, it's just an observation about how their play this game differs from past games. Anyone can say something like that.

I just feel like this amount of self-awareness is unnecessary as scum, it draws attention towards their slot in a way that is not needed at all.

I don’t really see how that applies to the post you quoted.
This whole read feels a bit contrived.

[Alianna]

I like RVS because I can vote myself and not get turbo-yeeted for it.

VOTE: Alianna

Can you explain the thought process behind how this self-vote is productive?

It’s not? Why would you assume a meme vote like that is trying to be productive?

[Alianna]

And what in my ISO suggests I’m that concerned with productivity? I could understand if it were someone like Delta (not that I think he’d ever vote himself for the lolz), but that’s just an odd question to ask me. A leading question about something very random, completely out of the blue, in retaliation to me scumreading you. It really looks as if you’re trying to grasp onto whatever you can to discredit me.

[Alianna]

Well, to be clear, my stance on RVS is that I enjoy memeing around, I don’t mind it lasting a few pages, and I’m not obsessed with getting out of it ASAP as some seem to be.
The discrediting was more the way you asked the question. If you’d just asked me about my stance on RVS and how it’s relevant to the question, I wouldn’t have taken issue with it. The way you asked, though, was a leading question and felt like a bit of a veiled accusation.

[Alianna]

*not the question, the vote

[Alianna]

@mod - Limited access until Thursday.

Aknowledged.

[Alianna]

UNVOTE:

Let's at least get a claim first before a hammer?

[Alianna]

Welp, there goes that.

[Alianna]

Still a good chance of flipping red though, I think.

[Alianna]

Hell yeah, 3 people targeted Bulge last night.

I'm a Multitasking JOAT with a Watcher ability and a Tracker-Finder ability.

I targeted Bulge with my Watch and got 2 names back, and I targeted Doctor Drew with the other, he is not Tracker.

So we gonna do a fun little trust game.

Gonna need everyone to claim 'I did not target Bulge' or 'I targeted Bulge with a _____ action'

Fill in the blank with your action please.

Interesting.

[Alianna]

I did not target The Bulge.

[Alianna]

I believe it.

[Alianna]

I do have one thing to say about the plan, but I'm not sure if I should bring it up now or if I should wait until we have all the claims.

[Alianna]

It's not really gonna help if everyone notice but "oh well i won't speak why" publically for no reason.

Literally lol.

scum are not always competent

and for a brief glimpse but not the whole picture
the worst case scenario if flavor leaf is town telling the truth is one scum found with two town lost
this claiming process helps reduce the odds of us getting that worst case scenario

and anyways i do plan on revealing what i know at the end anyways
i am very conveniently at the end of the claiming order now

Worst case scenario is actually that scum have a ninja, both Bulge visitors are town, and we've just told the scum who all the PRs are.
I don't know the first thing about mini normals despite having recently modded one, but if there's a watcher/tracker-finder and an implied tracker (or is tracker-finder with no tracker a thing?), there's probably something to counter that.

[Alianna]

Doctor Drew not contradicting the “Not a Tracker Claim” is also a little bit more, but I digress, that one’s a bit weaker conformation, but still some.

Enchant, there are a lot of steps for scum to point me out in particular if FL is scum(obviously unless you think we are buddies).

Also, would 3p be considered normal?

Btw i am JOAT too.

You are not a Doctor.

Is this a joke or are you actually claiming to have found that Dr. Drew isn't a doctor?

[Alianna]

Also, I did make a boo boo saying FL was being righteous. Won't elaborate at this point.

I believe Enchant now and don't believe FL.

I guess I won't ask why, but at the moment, I'm leaning the other way.

[Alianna]

I thought Enchant's post was a joke tbh. If they're being serious, then I see your point.
I'll wait for a response from them before I make any more judgements.

P-edit: I still can't tell if that's serious and it's making me lose my mind a little.

[Alianna]

I'll take this.

[Alianna]

ENCHANT RETURN TO US!

[Alianna]

You're alive!
Yes, the serial killer killed you.

[Alianna]

Ghost of Enchant, please repeat for the third time that the Doctor isn't a doctor so that I can stop losing my mind trying to figure out if your claim is actually serious. Or don't if you aren't.

[Alianna]

@alianna- are you still feeling theta could be scum? I know you said that ages ago but I didn’t see any progression on the matter

No, I'm not scumreading her anymore.
Might make a readslist myself later.

[Alianna]

This is probably fine.

VOTE: Deltabreedy

E-1.

@Theta - where was the possible traitor crumb from Kitty?

[Alianna]

Did I miss something? What were Theta's stated overnight actions?

[Alianna]

I've got a couple of things to say, but I'll wait for the case.

[Alianna]

I was just wanting to see if your case would clarify your thoughts better, but I guess I'll do it anyway.

Awh jeezy peeps what is this

The wagon on me is bad, I don't think anyone has even tried to justify a vote on me.

Theta's vote was an OMGUS sourced from me questioning them and holding them to account with their stated overnight actions (which I still don't think they've done btw).

My play is apparently 'just off', and there's some wacky tinfoil shite about me bussing Enchant?

I don't think anyone else has really justified.

Idk this wagon has developed so fast and so easily that it's damn near impossible not to have scum on it - and I think that's Theta.

They said they were going to do a readslist but instead have come out with this tinfoil theory that somehow ended with the softest vote on me going.

I'm currently on a train with naff internet but I'll lay out a case when I get home in around 2-ish hours

Feels like you're misrepresenting Theta's case here. Here's your whole section in their readslist:

probably scum
deltabreedy - out of all the votes on enchant this felt the most like it could be a bus
plus just the rest of their play is just off
they also near immediately started attacking flavor leaf after they announced their result

i do think we are in a 2 scum + 1 traitor remaining situation
i do not feel alianna and doctor drew being scum which
aaaaaa
it makes the most sense thus their placement on this list but
regardless i do think this is scum in any situation at this point
VOTE: deltabreedy

The OMGUS thing is a theory, nothing more. It's not really evidence to scumread them. Nothing in their ISO suggests that their read on you has anything to do with your questioning of them.
Also, they made a readslist. Is the issue that they didn't post one immediately upon the start of D1?

Those weren't their only reasons to SR you. They were also suspicious of your response to Flavor Leaf's claim at the beginning of D2. Why haven't you acknowledged that point at all?

This only works as a point against Theta if you think it's exactly them and someone else on the wagon. Otherwise, it's kind of like saying, "Theta is scum because they voted me and the town dogpiled onto it." Do you think Hu Tao or I is scum too?

[Alianna]

Never mind the last point, I see what you said in 721.

[Alianna]

I'm just going to steal this.

And I'm going to put the VC here anyway

Votecount

VC 3-IV

Deltabreedy (1):

Hu Tao (702)

Alianna (1):

Doctor Drew (678)

Not Voting (7):

bristep123, Emperor flippyNips, KittyTacky, redFF (720), Deltabreedy (741), Theta Alpine (742), Alianna (751)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 for an execution.

Modnotes:

• Alianna's unvote happened after this VC, but since it's literally the following post, I'm counting it here.
  
• The deadline is due in (expired on 2023-05-11 00:00:00).

[Alianna]

And here's an UNVOTE: . Probably won't be around to post properly until this evening though.

[Alianna]

I'm just going to steal this.

And I'm going to put the VC here anyway

Votecount

VC 3-IV

Deltabreedy (2):

Hu Tao (702), Alianna (715)

Alianna (1):

Doctor Drew (678)

Not Voting (6):

bristep123, Emperor flippyNips, KittyTacky, redFF (720), Deltabreedy (741), Theta Alpine (742)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 for an execution.

Modnotes:

• The deadline is due in (expired on 2023-05-11 00:00:00).

[Alianna]

@Kitty - how exactly does your role work? Enchant was executed D2 and you checked Delta N2, so if it's just them and a traitor, they technically have no one to talk to in the PT. I realize 3 scum + traitor is technically possible, just interested in this scenario. Would you get a positive or negative result on groupscum if they're the last one left, assuming they can't communicate in another way?

[Alianna]

@Emperor - what's your read on Doc? And also, what was your read on him D1/D2?

[Alianna]

I can see 3 + traitor, but wouldn't Kitty's role technically be stronger in that setup than in 2 + traitor?

[Alianna]

Regardless of the number, they're probably stacked.

[Alianna]

I take issue with the redFF case for a couple of reasons.

1. They're the jailkeeper claim. Fakeclaiming jailkeeper as scum is risky because the existence of a jailkeeper-enabler implies they're likely to get counterclaimed. It's possible that scum!redFF actually is a jailkeeper, but I don't know how likely it is that scum would have both a jailkeeper and a jailkeeper-enabler. Does anyone here know more about setup design to answer that?
2. Meta. Namely from this game, where they repped into a town slot, never really caught up on the game, were very inactive, put two wagons to E-1 with zero justification (one scum, one town), and got misexecuted. The "sense of complete apathy" that you speak of was present in that game too. I'm inclined to think this is just how they play.

[Alianna]

I agree with that.

A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:

- is Mafia-aligned
- knows the identities of all of the Mafia team
- identity is not known by the Mafia team, although they should know a Traitor exists
- cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team, and (unless Bulletproof) is killed if shot

- is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead

- gives a "guilty" result to Cops, an "innocent" result to Gunsmiths, and a "Traitor" result to Role Cops

Traitor-hunting is pointless. We should never execute Theta, and we should only go for Delta if we're sure the setup is 2 + traitor and there are no good execution options.

[Alianna]

^
Agreeing on not executing Delta or Theta. Not sure about Hu Tao.

[Alianna]

Kitty is claiming to be informed of the existence of a traitor.

[Alianna]

Pagetop.

[Alianna]

I can see 3 + traitor, but wouldn't Kitty's role technically be stronger in that setup than in 2 + traitor?

Wouldn't 4 scum be way too strong with the amount of people we have in the game? If it's confirmed there is a traitor then it should be 2 + traitor

I'm not actually sure what the meta is around traitors. 3 + traitor doesn't sound unreasonable to me, though, given that town seems to have quite a bit of power.
Maybe traffic analyst isn't as strong as I thought it was?

[Alianna]

VOTE: hutao i dont like his reaction to my claim today

Why? You could have waited until you were going to be voted out and then claim

They're functionally vanilla now, though, so not claiming really just wastes time if they get wagoned.

[Alianna]

I want to see how Emperor responds to my question and then I might consider it.

[Alianna]

VOTE: hutao i dont like his reaction to my claim today

Why? You could have waited until you were going to be voted out and then claim

They're functionally vanilla now, though, so not claiming really just wastes time if they get wagoned.

Yeah but that gives scum a free night kill. Instead of having to potentially kill a traitor

We have a strong reason to suspect the traitor is bulletproof. Let me find the post.

[Alianna]

Can someone clarify where the assumption of a traitor has come from?

even before someone revealed that it was confirmed

enchant flipped with disloyal unstoppable and no active non-factional abilities
there is exactly one situation where this makes sense to have
if you will be targeting someone with your factional kill who is the same alignment as you and who has protection

in normals there is only one setup satisfying this without an assumption of purposely targeting a teammate you are aware of
and that is to have a bulletproof traitor

[Alianna]

Basically, all groupscum are within bristep, Dr. Drew, Hu Tao, Emperor, and maybe Delta.

[Alianna]

alianna is also in this group

alright let me think

Read my sig. Repeat "I townread Alianna" over and over again until you rid yourself of that idea.

[Alianna]

i have been trying to decide if we just
mass claim here

The thought has crossed my mind too.

[Alianna]

Where do you get the idea that I was trying to save Enchant?

[Alianna]

I initially brushed the claim off as a joke, but wasn't 100% sure (even though I probably should have been lol). Then Dr. Drew posted this:

Also, I did make a boo boo saying FL was being righteous. Won't elaborate at this point.

I believe Encha.nt now and don't believe FL.

I guess I won't ask why, but at the moment, I'm leaning the other way.

I actually have been flip flopping a bit myself, I kinda believe that FL found out I am not a tracker.....but would be incredible balls for Enchant to come and say that I am ALSO not a doctor(despite the username contradicting them lol)

I (perhaps mistakenly) thought that he was implying Enchant might actually be serious there, and if they were, I would have hard-scumread them for publicly narrowing down possible doctors, among other things. Wasn't going to say that though. So I decided to actually consider it, and after 536, I logged off for the night and Enchant was dead before I got the chance to post again. I wouldn't have defended them in any case, the timing just didn't work out great.

[Alianna]

*wasn't going to/didn't want to say that before I had an answer

[Alianna]

Doc, what are you even scumreading me for?

[Alianna]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all I can see is that Doc voted me because Theta's posting around my associatives pinged him and he wanted to test her, but she's semi-confirmed now. I don't recall him ever expressing an actual reason to SR me. So what's the point of 834?

[Alianna]

Doc, what are you even scumreading me for?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all I can see is that Doc voted me because Theta's posting around my associatives pinged him and he wanted to test her, but she's semi-confirmed now. I don't recall him ever expressing an actual reason to SR me. So what's the point of 834?

Somewhat correct in that I wanted to test her, but I don't reveal all my methods.

Fine, keep your secrets.

[Alianna]

Personally I don't like claiming pr until I HAVE to. But I guess that could just be me

Here

Pretty sure this was their soft.

[Alianna]

I want to see a claim too, but I won't be awake when Delta says he's going to hammer. Hoping they get in here and claim soon.

[Alianna]

Hu Tao was executed! They were a

Werewolf Watcher-Enabler Ninja

.

Role PM:

Spoiler:

Welcome to Mini Normal 2299!

You are a

Werewolf Watcher-Enabler Ninja

.

You know that the Wolves' faction is composed of [REDACTED].

You have the following factional abilities:

• Wolf chat
  — you can talk with the other members of the Wolves' faction at any time [REDACTED].
  
• Wolf kill
  — each night, if no other member of the Wolves' faction use this ability, you may target a living player. Assuming no interference with your action, your target will die.

You have the following nonfactional passive abilities:

• Watcher-Enabler
  — when you die, the role "Watcher" will cease to function for all players.
  
• Ninja
  — actions performed by you are not visible to action-investigative roles.

You have no nonfactional active abilities.

You win when at least one member of the Wolves' faction is alive and all members of the Village's faction are dead, or when nothing can prevent the same.

The game thread is located here.
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role, or by posting the same in the Wolves' PT.

Mod put this in with the sole purpose of trolling me.
I’m Watcher. Not sure if it’s beneficial to reveal my info yet, especially if we’re massclaiming.

[Alianna]

Do you think there's a significant possibility that the mod put a watcher and a watcher-enabler ninja on the same scumteam?

[Alianna]

Congratulations lol.

[Alianna]

I'll go make a proper list of claims.

[Alianna]

Flips

Mewtaph - Villager
The Bulge - Villager

Enchant - Werewolf Jailkeeper-Enabler Disloyal Unstoppable

Flavor Leaf - Village Multitasking JOAT (Tracker-Finder x2, Finder-Finder x2) - Doctor Drew not a tracker N1

Hu Tao - Werewolf Watcher-Enabler Ninja

KittyTacky - Informed Traffic Analyst (informed of Lazy modifier and Traitor) - Theta Alpine cannot communicate N1 - Deltabreedy cannot communicate N2

Claims

bristep123 - Villager
Emperor flippyNips - Unclaimed
Theta Alpine - Villager
Alianna - Watcher - Targets unclaimed - Role disabled D3
Doctor Drew - Odd-Night Informed-Finder, Even-Night Enabler-Finder - Flavor Leaf not informed N1 - KittyTacky not an enabler N2 - Alianna not informed N3
redFF - Jailkeeper - Jailed Deltabreedy N1 - Role disabled D2
Deltabreedy - Villager

[Alianna]

You fren

Quoting you to give you a notification, we're massclaiming and you're the last one.

[Alianna]

You've got it all mixed up! Alianna is town. Aliana, on the other hand, is practically lockscum and should be today's execution.

[Alianna]

It feels like you've reacted differently to my claim than to redFF's JK claim after the JK-enabler died. I don't recall you saying much about them, but it's like you're trying to emphasize that I shouldn't be treated as conftown. That's fine on its own, it's just that I don't think you've treated our slots the same way. Why is that?

[Alianna]

Theta - Informed is part time of a role title, kittytacky was informed that’s how it was confirmed that we have a traitor. Stands to reason there may be an informed scum as well in that third slot but not for certain. Any rule speculation on whether any faction were inherently classed as informed would be moot, it’s specifically a role ability.

First off, I flip flopped my night abilities.....should be odd night informed finder, even night enabler finder. Hence finding out last Night that Alianna is not an informed role.

Second, I guess my role is possibly meant to find scum one night and possibly clear town another night? Thinking this because both scum have been enablers, and Kitty was informed.

So maybe it doesn't really clear Alianna as much as I first thought.

It feels like you've reacted differently to my claim than to redFF's JK claim after the JK-enabler died. I don't recall you saying much about them, but it's like you're trying to emphasize that I shouldn't be treated as conftown. That's fine on its own, it's just that I don't think you've treated our slots the same way. Why is that?

That is fair, but a bit of recency bias I guess.

And that I checked you out last not and got the 'not an informed' message back, and just kinda focused on on you and your claim. Didn't really think about how my informed finder ability was probably to catch scum until after the flip on Hu.

But yes, Red should not get a free pass.

I think you mean the other way around.

[Alianna]

To clarify, I'm not saying I should be conftown.

[Alianna]

Emp should claim tho

And yes.

[Alianna]

Post 917 implied that you thought the enabler-finder ability might be for catching scum (since both scum were enablers) and the informed-finder ability might be for clearing town (since Kitty was informed).

In 933, you said you thought the informed-finder was for catching scum. I assumed you meant to say enabler-finder since you referenced Hu Tao's flip.

[Alianna]

Am I wrong about one of those assumptions?

[Alianna]

N1 - Doctor Drew (targeted by Emperor flippyNips and Flavor Leaf)
N2 - Flavor Leaf (targeted by no one - kill was made by the ninja)

[Alianna]

Traitor is not confirmed to be within you and Theta. That’s just bristep’s read.

[Alianna]

Enabler.

[Alianna]

I didn't exactly breadcrumb, but there are a couple things in my ISO that can be explained by my role.
Like my weird Enchant progression. 829 was only part of it.
When I saw Enchant claim to have visited Dr. Drew, I knew they didn't, so I got a little overexcited that I might have a guilty XD. That is why I cared about whether their claim was real (even though it pretty clearly wasn't in hindsight) and why I made remarks like 536.
It's also why I asked specifically for flippy's progression on Dr. Drew - I wanted to see if I could get insight into what role he was and maybe use it later.
Idk how to play PR though lol.

[Alianna]

*and by real, I meant serious

[Alianna]

I also said "among other things" in 829 - that's the other thing.

[Alianna]

Setup is this if all the PRs are trueclaiming. Hmm.

Villager
Villager
Villager
Odd-Night Informed-Finder Even-Night Enabler-Finder (possibly Lazy)
Multitasking JOAT (Tracker-Finder x2, Finder-Finder x2)
Informed Traffic Analyst (informed of Lazy and Traitor)
Watcher
2-Shot Tracker
Jailkeeper

Jailkeeper-Enabler Disloyal Unstoppable
Watcher-Enabler Ninja
???
Bulletproof Traitor

[Alianna]

VOTE: bristep123

[Alianna]

VOTE: bristep123

Only player here without any degree of confirmation.

[Alianna]

also realizing now that enchant had to claim when flavor leaf claimed watcher the way he did

cause hu tao was a watcher-enabler and ninja
scum basically knew that town had a watcher somewhere

so oof that gambit put them in a really bad spot

I see what you mean, especially since I didn't CC there.

[Alianna]

I think we're good to hammer.

[Alianna]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

[Alianna]

I think we're good to hammer.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

Ironically we need an Enchant type right about now heh.

ENCHANT RETURN TO US!

[Alianna]

Ghost of Enchant...

[Alianna]

And I'll take this.

[Alianna]

Going for groupscum makes more sense simply because the pool is smaller and we're more likely to be accurate.
It's between me/Doc/Emperor, and traitor could theoretically be in that pool too.

[Alianna]

I'm not lazy either.

[Alianna]

Haven't done the reading yet but from my POV it's either Doc or Emperor.

[Alianna]

I’m pretty lazy

As in you're claiming to have the lazy modifier or you're just lazy?

[Alianna]

Both

So lazy 2-shot tracker is your full role?

[Alianna]

Idk man check the VC

I am lazy

Theta, is this why you thought Drew had the modifier?

[Alianna]

Tinfoil theory of the day: Delta is traitor and he's misspelling my name to signal to scum!Drew.

[Alianna]

well now i get to figure out

what are the chances of it being lazy modifier on scum
not likely i do not think

so uh
great

let me look at what has been claimed again and see what i can figure out

Lazy on traitor makes no sense because traitor just gets endgamed if they're the last scum alive.
Lazy on groupscum doesn't make much sense either because scum don't have multitasking and will just be doing the kill anyway if they're the last one. Unless they have both lazy and the multitasking modifier for some reason. If that's the case, there'd have to be a reason why the ability only stops working after the traitor is gone. Hmm.

[Alianna]

Tinfoil theory #2: Drew is lazy and softed lazy, but decided not to claim that part of his role so his traitor could claim it instead.

[Alianna]

How about we don't?

[Alianna]

Idk man check the VC

I am lazy

Theta, is this why you thought Drew had the modifier?

partially
but it was more that i did not think that flippy would be both lazy and two shot

I wouldn't have thought so either. Still trying to figure out what that means.

[Alianna]

Idk man check the VC

I am lazy

Theta, is this why you thought Drew had the modifier?

partially
but it was more that i did not think that flippy would be both lazy and two shot

I wouldn't have thought so either. Still trying to figure out what that means.

So the lazy modifier has to be on town or groupscum, not traitor.
For Emperor to be faking lazy as traitor, tinfoil theory #2 would have to be true and he'd have to have tracked his own groupscum N1 (and supposedly N2 as well but that can't be confirmed). I guess he could do that? Or fake tracker? I don't know. I don't think so.
For Emperor to be faking lazy as groupscum…well, that’s impossible given that the real modifier would have to be on town and no one's claiming it.
For Emperor to be lazy as groupscum, this would have to be true and I don't see why it would be.

Unless they have both lazy and the multitasking modifier for some reason. If that's the case, there'd have to be a reason why the ability only stops working after the traitor is gone. Hmm.

I'm not 100% ruling out voting here, but I'm leaning town on the slot.

[Alianna]

@Theta and Delta - could you rank your preferred wagons for today?

[Alianna]

If you're scum, I think your claim is partially true. I believe you targeted the people you claim to have targeted, at least on N1 and N2, but you didn't necessarily perform the actions you claim to have performed.

[Alianna]

I have a theory, but I don't know if I should share what it is yet.

[Alianna]

I know. That's not quite what I mean.

[Alianna]

What role would scumDrew have then?

I kind of went with Theta's suggestion.

doctor drew i believe did not accurately claim their role
as their role would make the most sense as being the scum parallel to flavor leaf and thus instead of enabler finder they probably have something else

Could be traitor-finder. Could also be something else we haven't thought of.

And why would I proactively out myself as not Doc or Tracker, and why would my scum buddy(Enchant) be one of those to limit any potential fake claim scumDrew would try to pull off?

I mean, Enchant wasn't being serious there. I don't know that that's what they were trying to do with that post even if you are their buddy (and for the record, when I said I'd have scumread them for rolefishing previously, I was referring to my thought process at the time of Enchant's post and not at the time I was asked to explain my response).

Not tracker - you had town saying you weren't. I guess you could have just not confirmed or denied though.
Not doctor - hmm.

[Alianna]

Not the time to be witholding your theories

Theta's kind of expressed their view, but could you answer 1047?

[Alianna]

Theory was Doc/Delta, but I have to consider if a traitor would really open with 902 voting their last scumbuddy after hammering the other two.

[Alianna]

Spoiler: my paranoia and indecision

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[Alianna]

I almost want to vote Emperor. You two (Delta/Theta) are both going back and forth between me/Doc and would prefer either of us over Emperor. If you're both town, Doc/Emperor are both scum and it's fine. If one of you is traitor, it feels risky to push groupscum here. But maybe that's too obvious AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[Alianna]

It's as I explained, though I'm aware the logic there isn't perfectly sound. Was there anything in specific about 1069 that didn't make sense?

[Alianna]

Oh, I suppose I was a little unclear. I think Delta or Theta traitor has higher partner equity with Emperor than with Doc.
The only problem there is Lazy.

[Alianna]

I waited for everyone else to claim to see if I could catch anyone slipping up. If you had a problem with that reasoning, you should have objected then instead of making it out like it's scummy now.

Hu Tao was executed! They were a

Werewolf Watcher-Enabler Ninja

.

Role PM:

Spoiler:

Welcome to Mini Normal 2299!

You are a

Werewolf Watcher-Enabler Ninja

.

You know that the Wolves' faction is composed of [REDACTED].

You have the following factional abilities:

• Wolf chat
  — you can talk with the other members of the Wolves' faction at any time [REDACTED].
  
• Wolf kill
  — each night, if no other member of the Wolves' faction use this ability, you may target a living player. Assuming no interference with your action, your target will die.

You have the following nonfactional passive abilities:

• Watcher-Enabler
  — when you die, the role "Watcher" will cease to function for all players.
  
• Ninja
  — actions performed by you are not visible to action-investigative roles.

You have no nonfactional active abilities.

You win when at least one member of the Wolves' faction is alive and all members of the Village's faction are dead, or when nothing can prevent the same.

The game thread is located here.
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role, or by posting the same in the Wolves' PT.

Mod put this in with the sole purpose of trolling me.
I’m Watcher. Not sure if it’s beneficial to reveal my info yet, especially if we’re massclaiming.

Not sure if it’s beneficial to reveal my info yet, especially if we’re massclaiming.

wait until everyone has claimed yeah
see if someone slips up
that would make our job much easier

[Alianna]

alright then

between drew and alianna
i think i will just prefer drew over alianna
i continue to believe that flippy having lazy means they are just town outright

too much paranoia and aaaaaa though wow
but i think i am fine with this current stance now

so what does everyone else think
doctor drew lim or anyone want to propose something else

I'm not totally sold on flippy!town.

[Alianna]

flippy!groupscum, Theta!traitor?

[Alianna]

alright then

between drew and alianna
i think i will just prefer drew over alianna
i continue to believe that flippy having lazy means they are just town outright

too much paranoia and aaaaaa though wow
but i think i am fine with this current stance now

so what does everyone else think
doctor drew lim or anyone want to propose something else

I'm not totally sold on flippy!town.

From my view, not completely sold it is you either, Flippy's claim seems much more sketch.

And it wasn't until after your targets were similar to Flippys that I thought you waiting to claim was sketch.

Also might be tinfoil, but starting to believe Theta is the traitor.

I also hinted at the result on Emperor here.

@Emperor - what's your read on Doc? And also, what was your read on him D1/D2?

Why else would I specifically want his old read on you that likely doesn't even matter anymore by D3?

P-edit: I can see that theory.

[Alianna]

flippy!groupscum, Theta!traitor?

Kinda goes back to, forget which Day it was, but right from the start was feeling like you could be scum, but when I offered to wagon you, the shifted gears.

And I feel like the way they acted their and now here, is theater. It seems so 'woah is me how can I possibly choose!!'

Coming off a bit phony tbh.

That and glossing over reasons why I can't be scum yet

basically locking Flippy as town based on the Lazy thing

.

There is some holes in their logic.

That's pretty much exactly what I expected a traitor to do today.

[Alianna]

I mean, from my POV it's safe for you to vote flippy, since one of you is confirmed groupscum.

[Alianna]

Idk if we can even get flippy executed.
Which is exactly the reason I think we need to execute them.

[Alianna]

Idk if we can even get flippy executed.
Which is exactly the reason I think we need to execute them.

You don't think Delta would go for them?

He did say he preferred either of us first, but possibly.

[Alianna]

I'm probably voting flippy tomorrow. Maybe tonight if my thirst for blood overcomes me.

[Alianna]

Alright, screw it. Blood for the Blood God.

VOTE: Emperor flippyNips

I hope I'm not getting played here.

[Alianna]

Why'd you wait for me to vote first?

[Alianna]

Why'd you wait for me to vote first?

Wasn't sure how much you trusted me, I wanted you to do it on your own accord and not because of pressure from me.

And I didn't fully trust you enough that you would vote Flippy, hence why I said I will be up for awhile so if you did vote, I am right behind you.

I get your paranoia, but following the logic.....this has to be the solve.

Alright, I guess that's fair enough.

[Alianna]

The paranoia is killing me though.

[Alianna]

The paranoia is killing me though.

Listen.

Your tinfoil theory on Delta spelling your name wrong as a call to me.......I am witnessing your paranoia haha.

Which ironically makes me paranoid that it is you(but that would be some crazy open wolfing).

XD
This whole game would be pretty crazy if I were scum, actually.

[Alianna]

So Emperor is just confirmed scum to me since Delta or Theta would have hammered otherwise.

[Alianna]

Why are we so sure there is a traitor again?

Kitty was informed of the existence of a traitor.

[Alianna]

So if Emperor is confirmed scum, and neither Theta nor I are scum, then by that logic Drew is scum as well, right?

You and Theta aren’t confirmed not scum.

[Alianna]

I’d rather we didn’t hammer hastily. I don’t really have time to make my case right now.

[Alianna]

So we know there’s the traitor left and a group scum?

So killing wrong today is it for town?

Yes and yes.

[Alianna]

I don’t think Emperor is traitor, I think he’s groupscum.

[Alianna]

We have to hit scum today tbh, otherwise we' re just going to be at a 50/50 between Alianna and Drew again, and thats going with the assumption that Emperor is in fact the traitor.

--

Ninja'd: So we lim Emperor, who is the most likely kill overnight Alianna?

If he’s traitor, which I think is unlikely, then it’s a 50/50 between me and Doc and Theta probably dies.

[Alianna]

Alianna what are your thoughts on Drew

Why am I group scum?

Some of those answers are in my ISO. The rest, I’ll get back to you in a bit. I’m a bit busy at the moment.

[Alianna]

I’d rather we didn’t hammer hastily. I don’t really have time to make my case right now.

In reference to this. Today? Overnight? Tomorrow?

Today.
I have all the time in the world, I just have things I need to get done irl and I’d like to be able to get back to doing that instead of worrying that this game’s about to be over before I can say any more.

[Alianna]

And I’m not planning on writing a wallpost or anything.
K, I’ll be back later.

[Alianna]

Alright, I'm here. I've got a couple things I'm about to post and then I'll answer anything else you want answered.

[Alianna]

Delta's conftown now too.

[Alianna]

The fact that there's no hammer suggests to me that Theta isn't scum. I know I'm not and the same logic that clears Theta also clears myself.

It doesn't mean she isn't scum, only that she isn't scum with myself or Drew (because if she was, she'd have hammered Emperor). Theta/Emperor is still a viable team, and from my POV, almost confirmed to be the solve.

My issue is figuring out if Emperor is a traitor. I don't like that both Alianna and Drew are doing the same things. Is there a world in which Alianna and Drew are the traitor & groupscum?

I understand why you would consider this. It just isn't the case.

[Alianna]

alright then

i am going to take that as confirmation that alianna and doctor drew are scum together

VOTE: doctor drew

i cannot believe that lazy would ever make sense on scum
flippy i think is just mislim bait
not actually scum

lazy as a modifier just
does not ever go on scum

flippy is low hanging fruit yes
mislim bait
much like me and delta were as well

there is no reason for scum to have lazy
i have fully accepted losing the game if it is flippy scum
they are mislim bait
not actually scum

This here is why I think it's Theta/Emperor.
Lazy is a legal modifier to put on scum. Even though it's a bit of an odd one, this is a complex setup and I feel like we should be expecting stuff like that. It's definitely not worth betting the game on.
Being limbait doesn't make a player town. Limbait players are limbait because their play resembles that of scum. Other than the lazy modifier, there's no reason given for why that sort of play is coming from town here.
This is pretty much the whole case for why Emperor is town, and Theta's confidence in it seems unreasonable. However, that changes if you look at it from the perspective of traitor!Theta with groupscum!Emperor. Since the traitor is endgamed and loses if the last groupscum dies, they have to keep groupscum alive at all costs. It suddenly makes sense why Theta would be willing to bet the game on such a flimsy case. She literally has to.
Even if Emperor wasn't confirmed scum to me, this would still be incredibly suspicious.

[Alianna]

I mean, I get how I’m being sr but it doesn’t make sense for theta to be sr at this point after all the work they’ve put in

Scum can put in work and effort. In fact, it's optimal to do so.
You also say this after being lurky and disengaged all game. What exactly are people supposed to assume there?

[Alianna]

N1 - Doctor Drew (targeted by Emperor flippyNips and Flavor Leaf)
N2 - Flavor Leaf (targeted by no one - kill was made by the ninja)

Alianna/DD - if Emperor is lying about what they did, what do you think their role is?

Because you allege that they targetted DD, but the assumption is that they're lying about being a tracker.

What? I never said that.
Please quote to me the exact post where I said/implied that Emperor is lying about being a tracker.

[Alianna]

N1 - Doctor Drew (targeted by Emperor flippyNips and Flavor Leaf)
N2 - Flavor Leaf (targeted by no one - kill was made by the ninja)

Alianna/DD - if Emperor is lying about what they did, what do you think their role is?

Because you allege that they targetted DD, but the assumption is that they're lying about being a tracker.

What? I never said that.
Please quote to me the exact post where I said/implied that Emperor is lying about being a tracker.

To clarify, I don't mean that they can't be lying or they can't have something else as well. I just don't recall ever saying they weren't.

[Alianna]

@Doc - if I'm groupscum, who's my traitor? It can't be you from your perspective, Delta's confirmed town for not quickhammering either wagon, and flippy and Theta are voting me.

[Alianna]

@Doc - if I'm groupscum, who's my traitor? It can't be you from your perspective, Delta's confirmed town for not quickhammering either wagon, and flippy and Theta are voting me.

I just meant objectively speaking.

I said as much I am way more certain it is Flippy.

Ah. Fair enough.

[Alianna]

My head says Emperor
My guy says Alianna

I'd say listen to your logic but I suppose you can't really trust that coming from me.
Is there anything more you'd like me to address?

[Alianna]

i have had my case on drew and alianna since the start of day three

i have made my arguments for why they are scum together
and really i am more focused on my case on them as scum then proving flippy as town cause flippy is self admittedly fine with getting elimed

i am
really regretting not going with flippy elim yesterday though

Wait, you're adamant flippy isn't scum but you regret not executing them yesterday?
That doesn't feel like a real thought process.

[Alianna]

Why do I need to assume Emperor is lying about their role? Did I miss something? Is there a reason scum!Emperor can't be a tracker?
If they are lying, I don't know what they are. It could be any role that has a reason to visit Doc N1. Could be actual tracker, could be another scum investigative, could be something else entirely.
Flavor's tracker-finder flip makes it likely that he is an actual tracker, whether it's just that or combined with something else as well.

[Alianna]

I don't really know what to say about the traitor joke. I said that because Doc claimed to be scum with only one other person and the only way a two-person scumteam happens in a 13p mini normal is if there's a traitor. I don't deny it's suspicious now but it's really a case of wrong place and wrong time.

[Alianna]

i think they are a watcher
and yes that means they are disabled by the watcher-enabler dying

but i think they are a traitor as well
just kind of makes sense mechanically

i think flippy being lazy and 2 shot is a result of review
they were always going to be lazy
review said that would still be too powerful so
two shots as well

that is
answers to the questions that have been directed my way i think

You are seriously just trying to justify the reads even you don't believe.

Mech speak as a defense of Flippy now?

i even said yesterday it would be smarter to elim flippy then and then move to bristep or whoever we deemed was final group scum today if the game continued
i was fully expecting to go in and elim flippy

the only reason i did not elim flippy today is because i just
legitimately do not see any reason lazy would be included on scum
in a traitor game especially

and also my assumption of you having lazy was what was keeping me from suspecting you yesterday

What does this prove?

Doesn't really look like it. Quotes from start of yesterday:

but to put things in perspective

if everyone except scum have claimed truthfully so far
then flippy is town
but i need flippy to claim and then i can confirm this

kitty has told us that there is a lazy modifier in play
which is a town modifier pretty much all of the time

none of the claims or flips have this
so someone did not tell the full truth about their role and oddly enough it was probably town that did it

i can actually probably assume who has it though at this point
and even though it would not be flippy

i still think flippy is not the correct lim today

i think bristep is the correct elimination for today

at the moment from a game setup stance i believe the game is solved if the remaining wolves are bristep with delta or me as traitor
though i would have to say it is delta
though really who the traitor is does not matter if we get the last main wolf anyways

flippy being a tracker fills in the missing tracker from flavor leaf
drew i believe has the lazy role and did not mention it
last main wolf - bristep - i would guess is a tracker enabler and probably something else as well

leaving each of towns power roles either disableable or useless against a specific scum member
[/quote

You definitely went into it with bristep as your first choice and were only really considering flippy on the side. Even though you did put them in the pool later in the day, I don't see where you ever wanted or intended to execute them that day.
My guess is that you intended to pivot onto redFF today instead, but didn't predict them being killed.

[Alianna]

Oof, screwed up quoting. The last piece in purple is mine.

[Alianna]

on my phone so i will do a post tag instead
52
and to a lesser extent the self vote later on could potentially be another signal but that i do not like as much

alianna and drew also did the weird sort of defense of enchant on day 2

I already explained why I posted the way I did about Enchant (829). I didn't want to out myself for no reason. I was not trying to defend Enchant.

[Alianna]

Quote those for me too please - I don't want to have to go searching for your argument.

Ninja'd:

So in this scenario for you Aliana, Theta is traitor and Emperor is Groupscum?

Yes.

[Alianna]

989 and 990 are the two i was talking about

947 was with the assumption that flippy had lazy
then they did not claim it and i switched to conf towning drew for an assumption that they then had lazy

That could easily be you thinking you had a way to "confirm" your scumbuddy and then realizing you didn't (realizing feels like the wrong word since they had the modifier anyway, but you get what I mean).

[Alianna]

989 and 990 are the two i was talking about

947 was with the assumption that flippy had lazy
then they did not claim it and i switched to conf towning drew for an assumption that they then had lazy

I think my point still stands here. 1201 says you would have preferred flippy over bristep, but 990 says the exact opposite.
This is a contradiction and a flat-out lie.

[Alianna]

and in the very back of my mind is the faint possibility that it might be flippy traitor with drew group scum

which would be hilarious but like
that is the only other situation we could be in for me

That would be hilarious.

[Alianna]

I simultaneously love and hate being given the hammer at the death.

I actually did a vote for Emperor earlier which was interrupted by a P-edit.

Nothing is moving me from that at present. The AtE over anything else today and then Theta explaining it away for them just swayed it for me. Had yous left it I may well have simply voted for Aliana but it all just stinks. I've spent some time now trying to unwrap this thread ball of claims and results and actions and I think it's more likely for Emp to be scum than not.

I haven't quite figured out the claims. Does a lazy scum tracker make sense?

Like I've said in the past, I don't actually know that much about setup design. I know it's possible because Emperor has to be scum in my POV. I'm also not ruling out scum lazy tracker + something else.

[Alianna]

#VoteEmperor2023

[Alianna]

well great now i am thinking about it and it would explain flippys defeatism earlier

unless that was just them wanting to get elimd not realizing it was lilo


ughhh why can we not just have a drew vote instead then it would not matter as much

What, do you think I wouldn't be pushing flippy so hard if Drew was the counterwagon?

[Alianna]

It comes down to if a Scum Tracker with a Lazy modifier is possible.

I'm struggling to conceptualize what that would look like - when and how the lazy modifier would kick in.

Lazy would kick in if they were the last scum and the traitor was dead.
I'm not sure what that does balancing-wise, but that's a question for the reviewers. We also don't know exactly what the setup is.
It's a legal modifier for scum, and I don't know why it was used here, but I know it's possible.

[Alianna]

I'm having to convince myself it's Aliana. Emperor makes sense.

Again I hate being the one to cast the deciding vote of the game. I just don't see how town!Emperor behaves like that right at the death.

- are we -positive- there is no third parties like a fool/joker/'get myself limmed' character?

Yeah, I don't envy your position.
Third parties aren't legal in mini normals.

[Alianna]

Jester isn't legal in any normals.

[Alianna]

Oh no...

[Alianna]

I'm town too.

[Alianna]

Imagine the look on your faces if it was me

So uh, Flippy then Drew?

Guess so...

[Alianna]

There's always the possibility that Theta is trolling us. I can only hope that's the case.

[Alianna]

XD

[Alianna]

I mean, flippy's pretty obviously not my traitor after they were okay with me at E-1. So the game's solved.

[Alianna]

I am a little disappointed Drew's scum though. I feel betrayed lol.

[Alianna]

[Alianna]

lazy on traitor


lazy on traitor


aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I didn't know that was even possible.

[Alianna]

Ha, what a swerve.

No one even considered that all there was left was the traitor.

Hi5 to Alianna, we didn't get there the conventional way, but we solved it in endgame.

But fun game all around, nice job on the setup Bianco

Hi5!

[Alianna]

GG everyone. Probably the most fun I've ever had in a mafia game. I'd play with any of you again.

@bianco - thanks for modding and thanks for the invite!

[Alianna]

Drewliana

Well Alianna, if we ever hydra.....we know have a name lol

XD
That sounds like fun but I know you're not a fan of hydras.

[Alianna]

I'd just like to quote this exchange with the mod. Was pretty hilarious.

Spoiler: Night 2

Night 2 result

You discover that Flavor Leaf wasn't targeted by anyone other than you.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Please don't hate me

Spoiler: Day 3

Red, are you mod confirmed that you cannot use your ability anymore?

Yes.

I jk delta n1

K

I can understand that play.

Unfortunately I believe that all PR's have to be enabled.

You don't have to reply to this, but I just want you to know that if you put a Watcher-Enabler Ninja into the setup, I will flip another table.

Spoiler: Night 3

You don't have to reply to this, but I just want you to know that if you put a Watcher-Enabler Ninja into the setup, I will flip another table.

Narrator: I did, in fact, put a Watcher-Enabler Ninja into the setup.

You don't have to reply to this, but I just want you to know that if you put a Watcher-Enabler Ninja into the setup, I will flip another table.

Narrator: I did, in fact, put a Watcher-Enabler Ninja into the setup.

Alianna flips a table.

Alianna requests fast night.

[Alianna]

:D

[Alianna]

I didn't realize Lazy could apply to the Traitor part of the role. It makes sense though.

[Alianna]

No complaints, this abomination was awesome.