@Dunn - I get that you like the post but you really believe that's sufficient for a townread? 177 and 179 reads as though you're POEing via your townreads and that feels kinda rote and simplistic. I don't think mafia is incapable of producing catboi's ISO so far
@Dunn - I get that you like the post but you really believe that's sufficient for a townread? 177 and 179 reads as though you're POEing via your townreads and that feels kinda rote and simplistic. I don't think mafia is incapable of producing catboi's ISO so far
If Catboi is mafia they opened up by calling a lot of people town, including two people who claimed the same role. I think mafia would be more hesitant to do so and would want paranoia to remain there.
I guess my reasoning here isn't convincing to other people, but I wasn't really trying to convince other people, I was just giving my own thoughts
These posts kind of sum up their interactions the entire game, questions back and forth, easily can be faked, feels... impersonal I guess?
Dunn in that last post addresses "other people", but not GL directly. I don't recall them really trying to nudge each other in any way? Just kind of throwing questions at each other. I don't get the sense Dunn is trying to appeal to GL here but more to the thread in general which is odd cause Dunn's scum and would want town GL to believe in his towniness?
In post 310, Dunnstral wrote:
I believe that Ydrasse is usually more charismatic as mafia early. Maybe. I feel like I make this argument a lot in games but I don't remember how that has went for me.
hah actually this is sorta what I just said but in a more concise tl;dr form
hmmm I wanna say that is +points for Dunn being town but I guess he could still make this argument as scum, especially if he's made it before
In post 309, Dunnstral wrote:
If Catboi is mafia they opened up by calling a lot of people town, including two people who claimed the same role. I think mafia would be more hesitant to do so and would want paranoia to remain there.
on this though, I guess like, maybe? scum are certainly incentivized away from making early game townreads but I feel once you hit a certain level of experience/skill in your scum game you realize early TRs are a lot more reversible than people tend to think. in the general case I agree with you but I wouldn't put that much stock in it for somebody who's been on the site for a decade, especially when he himself immediately said he's capable of posting that as scum
In post 316, Dunnstral wrote:
Ydrasse points against SirCakez:
o Their vote put pressure on Ydrasse at a time when people were considering voting for Ydrasse
o Their interaction with Pooky is suspicious because they avoided talking about the miller claim to "get into the game", and they would do so as town
o They are being obtuse in their interaction with Ydrasse and missing the point on purpose, including misrepping what Ydrasse is saying
SirCakez points against Ydrasse:
o Their interactions with elle (1L) on page 8 are informed
o Their responses to SirCakez's questions are bad and Ydrasse would have better arguments as town
In post 482, catboi wrote:
Still feels like there's probably a scum between Luke and GL but it's not something that needs immediate resolution in my opinion.
Why do you have the two of us grouped together in this thought?
I agree with catboi thinking this. My own thoughts on this game right now are 1 between your slot and Gl, and 1 between ydrasse and SirCakez. If you are town Gl is more likely in my mind, and ydrasse/SirCakez is admittedly poe. Leaning more towards SirCakez.
Looking at potential partner interactions, I see posts 337 and 361. Along with post 321. In post 430 Gl seems to be suspecting Luke, catboi, and me. I don't see any mention of their read on SirCakez besides asking me what I thought of it
In post 436, Lukewarm wrote:
Your line of questioning with Dunn did not appear to lead to you voicing any thoughts on Dunn's alignment wrt his Catboi read, nor did you seem to argue that Catboi was scum. It was just "but scum catboi COULD do that too, so you should not town read him." And that being the where that conversation led, left me with that impression.
I also, just, in general do not trust that sort of argument as genuine, because it seems to set a precedent that in order to think someone is more likely to be town, you must believe that their actions could not be replicated. And that is a very silly bar to set for town reads.
on this - I don't think I really had a lot of substantial thoughts on Dunn's alignment, at least not worth sharing. I felt most of his reads seemed artificial and formulaic, outside of when he had the same take as I did on Ydra. That's what is kinda hanging me up as I don't see the scum motivation for that read if Ydra is town, and the fact that he had the same reasoning regarding her scum meta felt mindmeld-y. but the catboi read was concerningly easy and I was trying to suss out to what degree he actually believes in it. I also generally don't like that he seemed reluctant to put down a vote on Cakez
I've been unsure of how to feel re:catboi as well but assuming you're telling the truth here I am thinking he's probably mafia
In post 452, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
i thought about your reasoning for GL and i think its kind of weak sauce and its like you decided to vote him then figure out an excuse rather than the other way around.
tbh you can never put it past Luke to find some reason to scumread me
In post 436, Lukewarm wrote:
Your line of questioning with Dunn did not appear to lead to you voicing any thoughts on Dunn's alignment wrt his Catboi read, nor did you seem to argue that Catboi was scum. It was just "but scum catboi COULD do that too, so you should not town read him." And that being the where that conversation led, left me with that impression.
I also, just, in general do not trust that sort of argument as genuine, because it seems to set a precedent that in order to think someone is more likely to be town, you must believe that their actions could not be replicated. And that is a very silly bar to set for town reads.
on this - I don't think I really had a lot of substantial thoughts on Dunn's alignment, at least not worth sharing. I felt most of his reads seemed artificial and formulaic, outside of when he had the same take as I did on Ydra. That's what is kinda hanging me up as I don't see the scum motivation for that read if Ydra is town, and the fact that he had the same reasoning regarding her scum meta felt mindmeld-y. but the catboi read was concerningly easy and I was trying to suss out to what degree he actually believes in it. I also generally don't like that he seemed reluctant to put down a vote on Cakez
I've been unsure of how to feel re:catboi as well but assuming you're telling the truth here I am thinking he's probably mafia
You quoted me giving a summary of Ydrasse and SirCakez. Nowhere in the post you had quoted did I suggest that I wanted to vote SirCakez
In post 316, Dunnstral wrote:
Ydrasse points against SirCakez:
o Their vote put pressure on Ydrasse at a time when people were considering voting for Ydrasse
o Their interaction with Pooky is suspicious because they avoided talking about the miller claim to "get into the game", and they would do so as town
o They are being obtuse in their interaction with Ydrasse and missing the point on purpose, including misrepping what Ydrasse is saying
SirCakez points against Ydrasse:
o Their interactions with elle (1L) on page 8 are informed
o Their responses to SirCakez's questions are bad and Ydrasse would have better arguments as town
what are your thoughts about a Cakez vote?
And I don't think the post you quoted is showing suspicion on SirCakez.
I think you used my response to you asking if I would vote SirCakez as your reason to point towards me suspecting SirCakez after the fact, which doesn't make sense.
In post 179, Dunnstral wrote:
elle (1L) + Ydrasse, or elle (1L) + SirCakez for the scumteam, as post 146 quoted above does not seem like both mafia, and elle (1L) does seem the most suspect to me right now based on how I've seen mafia in this position act before.
In post 310, Dunnstral wrote:
I believe that Ydrasse is usually more charismatic as mafia early. Maybe. I feel like I make this argument a lot in games but I don't remember how that has went for me.
@Dunn re:548- the combination of these two posts, not the one I quoted, is what made me think you should be voting Cakez if you were acting on your reads
I didn't post "hm, Dunn seems like he should be scumreading/voting Cakez, but he's not, I'm going to ask him about whether he'd vote Cakez to test him" ahead of time because that would obviously shape any reaction or post that I got from you
In post 179, Dunnstral wrote:
elle (1L) + Ydrasse, or elle (1L) + SirCakez for the scumteam, as post 146 quoted above does not seem like both mafia, and elle (1L) does seem the most suspect to me right now based on how I've seen mafia in this position act before.
In post 310, Dunnstral wrote:
I believe that Ydrasse is usually more charismatic as mafia early. Maybe. I feel like I make this argument a lot in games but I don't remember how that has went for me.
@Dunn re:548- the combination of these two posts, not the one I quoted, is what made me think you should be voting Cakez if you were acting on your reads
I didn't post "hm, Dunn seems like he should be scumreading/voting Cakez, but he's not, I'm going to ask him about whether he'd vote Cakez to test him" ahead of time because that would obviously shape any reaction or post that I got from you
I was thinking about voting Elle at this point in time, though I didn't voice that and I wasn't voting because I didn't want to push them close to an elimination too fast.
Post 179 should point out as much.
It is true that thinking Ydrasse is more towny made me think SirCakez is more scummy, though. I'm confused about the post you quoted when asking me my read, I guess.
Dunn/GL as a team is definitely more winnable than Dunn/Pooky, especially with Cakez' stances here
So maybe I put all my eggs in one basket and go all in on that team
Pooky if you're town let's win this game
In post 1164, GuiltyLion wrote:
I agree Luke's claim has to be town at this point because there's not enough town power otherwise
I'm thinking either
1) Cakez just trueclaimed his role as a scum RB
or
2) Dunn is some kind of scum investigative that targeted Luke
what's extra wonk is that neither Cakez nor Dunn see any issue with eachother's claims
I think at least to Dunn's credit he is just coming off kind of obtuse whereas Cakez pivoted from "scum in the PRs" to just immediately accepting Dunn's claim - feels like he may be strategically positioning and not wanting to make an enemy out of Dunn
GL/Dunn have a bunch of interactions arguing with each other but then GL shifts to Cakez being the scum in Cakez/Dunn
But also the idea of Cakez trueclaiming RB is weird (as other people have pointed out), maybe the oddity in that idea comes from the fact that he just manufactured this idea to create a scum Cakez world to cling onto
Dunn's posting around GL early day 2 are so weird because he spends so much time throwing shade with him and disagreeing with everything he says but like, where's the actual stance on GL? Why isn't he commenting on GL's alignment here?
I think it's intriguing cause GL throws shade at Dunn early on in day 1, but I don't think ever votes there. Day 2 they squabble a bunch, but then neither vote for each other, and GL uses a scumread on Cakez as a way to shift away from scumreading Dunn. Then later on he starts scumreading Dunn again, but it's specifically in a pair with me, and he goes for me instead of Dunn, since I'm a more viable lim in that gamestate
There's always been something preventing the Dunn scumread from materializing into anything real
Why do Dunn and GL perpetually scumread each other, but there's always a better target to focus on? I mean there is Dunn's vote on GL for a while on day 1, but even with that, he shifts away from it not because his stance on GL changes, but because he sees Ydrasse as scummier. That's what's happened all game. They've refused to think of the other as town, but also haven't appealed to the other trying to convince the other they're town? Would a towny in GL's position not scrutinize Dunn over his stance on himself?
i mean Dunn has snowed me before but this to me really just seems like a case of we are paranoid-ing ourselves to pieces
i mean fuck if i know, watch us hammer meuh and give the game to gl and dunn
regardless of who you think is mafia between me and guiltylion, you dont think cakes/dunn is a viable team so cakes voting you if you're town is the end of the game if you are town.
so i dont understand why you seem to be ok with it and you are not trying in any way to convince cakes that you are town.
like this kind of logic is exactly what i think is going on here. meuh and gl just seem a lot more apathetic about the gamestate then i should think they would be as town rn.
Maybe you think that 2 millers is crazy but does it in any way contradict my previous thinking or make my perspective here scummy?? Ask yourself if I can think it as town, not if you personally would think it, because plenty of townies in this game (myself included) have had a different outlook on mech than you
Dunn’s play around the claims is still so incredibly fucking scummy and everything he did at that time blatantly fed the scum agenda
How can people not see this
In post 1165, GuiltyLion wrote:
Dunn why did you claim specifically the 1-shot aspect of your role
did you consider withholding the number of uses
I did consider doing that but valued true claiming for figuring out the setup and if other claimed roles are real. That and I didn't want to cause problems if fake claiming led to people questioning my role, like if there were another gated protective role in the setup.
Why does Dunn true claim? Or even just claim shot count in the first place? Why is Dunn worried about getting CCed by another gated protective? Why does Dunn want Luke to claim first?
You need to jump through a bunch of hoops to justify this as town behaviour, but as scum behaviour it’s literally all just pushing the agenda
In post 1784, Meuh wrote:
Whether that's Ydrasse, Cakez or me, there's always a juicier target to go for, it's never one of them.
If I remember correctly you were bouncing between catboi and myself too. I have pointed out, multiple times, that your vote on RH9 did not make sense when you were saying you thought mafia were trying to make us look aligned.
In post 1796, Meuh wrote:Why does Dunn want Luke to claim first?
