Open 888 | Welcome to Feryland! -- End!

[usesPython]

Is it ok to point at current games to help people get a read on me?

Do not reference ongoing games

[Afrayed Knott]

Found it, POE, Now I understand.

[Afrayed Knott]

Do not reference ongoing games

thought not, that's why I removed the link to it from my Signature before I got into this game

[usesPython]

Reread done

{Knott, Kittie}
{VIP}
{}
{Tim}

-A

[fferyllt]

Is it ok to point at current games to help people get a read on me?

It is not. Ongoing games are not referred to at all until they are completed.

[Afrayed Knott]

is Tim a true read or because LHF?

[usesPython]

I legitimately think Tim has a pretty good chance of flipping red when you take into account both their play and the gamestate. Lot's of headnod without townvibes being in the background type posting in a game where no one has any real scumreads and people keep walling explains a lot about how we got here

-A

[Afrayed Knott]

480 is at Python

[Afrayed Knott]

I legitimately think Tim has a pretty good chance of flipping red when you take into account both their play and the gamestate. Lot's of headnod without townvibes being in the background type posting in a game where no one has any real scumreads and people keep walling explains a lot about how we got here

about sums up my feeling, lol that's sheeping right? I've just scummed all over myself again haven't I?

[Afrayed Knott]

VOTE: TimmerRC

[DragonEater70]

Have not read the last 2 pages in depth, however Tim has always bewn in mylimpool so happy to join the Volkswagen

VOTE: TimmerRC

[Aneninen]

Catching up sooner or later. I try to do it before evening, but I have a busy day.

[Aneninen]

Catching-up.

For Dragon:

Spoiler:

First, here's a response/refutation to what VIP says about me (you don't actually have to read any of this except for point 2):

(1) You ask Python about their scumlist. They give 3 names.
(2) You name one of them.
(3) Then you start a new wagon.
For me, it looks like a scum trying to launch a wagon because the current ones are not moving. Pushing me further or returning to Timmer would have made more sense.

(1) You describe what I did.
(2) You ignore context.
(3) You say this looks like scum trying to launch a new wagon, without actually explaining why this looks that way.
(4) You ignore the fact that scum don't "try to launch wagons because the current ones are not moving".
For me, it looks like a player who doesn't really understand what scum are trying to do and therefore finds the wrong things to be "scummy".

(1) I'm glad that at least we can agree in this point.
(2) I even explained that the context was my problem.
(3) I strongly think you've been trying to build wagons, drive them to E-1 and pull out claims from townies. It was a widely known tactic scum did for rolefishing the town. And I don't think it's not happening anymore - I remember how well it could work.
(4) I think quite the opposite.

(1) K.
(2) But you clearly have no idea of what I was saying in that context. Your case on me is trying to represent me as seriously pushing Black because I feel unhappy that the currently existing wagons aren't moving (these aren't my words, they are yours). However if you actually read 340 and 341, you would probably notice me saying things like "generate content" and "let's see what happens" and "DON'T HAMMER BLACK". It's freaking obvious that this wasn't a serious push, but you choose to paint it as me trying to start an actual wagon "because I am not happy with unmoving wagons" as scum (and btw, do you think town would be happy with the game not moving? I don't fucking get his).
(3) That's really funny because that's something I got accused of doing in my first game here (when I was town), and also something I don't think I ever saw scum do. So yeah I think it's an outdated scumtell.
(4) Well clearly Comet, Gimli and I all disagree with you.

But okay.
EVERYONE: If I'm wrong in (3) and (4) because the game's not working so anymore, tell me.

I answered this above, but just to make it clear: you are wrong.

Like there's zero critical thinking involved. Can you actually explain me why you think:
(a) That scum!me would rather "launch a launch a wagon because the current ones are not moving" over just let them not move?
(b) That scum!me, but not town!me, would prefer to ignore the options given by Python?
(c) That any of this makes any sense?

(a) Why would it be scummier to let wagons not moving (assuming they're on townies) than launching a new one and hoping it gains momentum?
(b) Among their options there were players scumread by you, weren't there?
But again, my question is right above.

(a) Because scum don't usually care which townies are eliminated and when wagons aren't moving then the town sinks in apathy and compromise lims on a townie (unless they get lucky, but as you said you are assuming the wagons are on townies)
(b) How does this answer my question? And I guess yes but not really.

And I was trying to spice things up so people have to DO something. If there's a E-2 wagon or even E-1 wagon, people have to react to it in some way. Or they can deliberately not react, but this is in itself a type of reaction. Anyway, the best games I've played were games in which a lot of different people got run up to E-2/E-1 before town settled on the final lim for the day. Games where there's just one person slowly accumulating votes, or all types of dispersed votes, tend to end in a mislim that doesn't lead to any improvement in the following days.

Is it really working that way nowadays? :-O

Still, there's one thing that disturbs me.
Python's "trollhammer" gave a lot of momentum to this game. Why do you think it was a good timing to do as you described? Especially since there are still players who's given zero reaction on my wagon or the "trollhammer". (Why is it called "meme" anyway?)

I disagree. The trollhammer created a short outburst of activity that quickly faded away once people realized that Gimli was town and they were back to not having scumreads. Just read like the 10 posts before when I did that thing and you'll see what I'm talking about.
I called it a meme because I am a guy that uses slang weirdly sometimes and I saw (or think I saw) people using the word meme with the meaning "lying as a joke / trolling" so I copied that usage.

Now, this makes it the second time that I catch VIP scumreading someone for an action that could

maaaaaaybe

be scummy in isolation, but is completely and utterly not scummy in context. And it feels to me likes VIP is not actually reading people's posts and is just forcing scumreads as much as he can. Now, this COULD be just a village idiot, but from my experience village idiots flip scum >rand, so I think this makes it a good Day 1 wagon. If you want you can also call it a policy lim - do you really want town!VIP in F5? I don't. But again this probably has >rand chance to flip scum, and considering the current gamestate I'd take that over a completely random person.

VOTE: VIP

(Yes, I know this post is "performative". It's how I write. Deal with it.)

(2) I'm at a loss then. It wasn't a serious push? Didn't you start a new wagon because the current wagons weren't moving? Besides, didn't you have a scumread on me at that time? Which leads to
(3) Is pushing wagons to E-1 to pull out claims from townies an outdated scumtell? I remember seeing this in my first newbie, for example. If it's THAT outdated?
(4) Okay.

Then.
(a) Whut? "scum don't usually care which townies are eliminated" - as far as I can remember, I only played scum in early game like that when either me or a scum partner was in clear danger. If not, I'd always have townies on my Lim-list becuase of different reasons. Also, I'd usually hard townread townies for reasons, too. So, either my memories are wrong or selective, or the game has changed more than I thought.

On Python's trollhammer.
"The trollhammer created a short outburst of activity that quickly faded away once people realized that Gimli was town and they were back to not having scumreads. Just read like the 10 posts before when I did that thing and you'll see what I'm talking about."
Was Gimli townread by all? Well, he wasn't (and probably isn't, haven't checked the new posts) townread by me. (I don't think you care about this, though.) And at that time there were several players who hadn't reacted anything to that trollhammer! I would have been interested in their opinion. But in one thing you may be right, those reactions might not have come even if you hadn't moved on with that new wagon launch.

That's all I can answer right now.

Short summary. For me, it feels like we two are interpreting everything differently. But okay, I'm trying to see your point of view and you may be right: I'm scumreading you for wrong reasons.
This doesn't mean that I think you're town. This means, regarding reading you I'm back to square one. When I have time, I'll ISO you and try to get a more gameplay-up-to-date read.
But first, let me catch up and check the other posts.

UNVOTE:

[Aneninen]

(1) Am I representing you right if I interpret your "clear choice" pool Kittie, Timmer or Comet as a Lim-pool?
(2) Are you aware of the fact that you misquoted me by mistake and there were just as much terrible gameplay examples in my original post (See my previous post about it).

Warning: My original quote was modified according to 398.

those three atm and so I will wait to see where that goes. Therefore I remain focused on you.

Now in point 2 you say I am miss- quoting you. Well no. I read all you had to say and take up the other points you have included as examples of your play. But it was that one line that stuck.

Erm... if you have Kittie, Timmer and Comet in your Lim-pool, how about posting more about them to show us why they are scummy? Or is it yet another thing that has become outdated in the last 5 years?

But.
You DID misquote me. And you DID misrepresent me.

This was my original post:

I was erratic as shirt.
I had brilliant and horrible games, too.
Some of the most remarkable games I can remember: when I convinced the whole town that a player Nightkilled himself (I was SK), when I successfully Nightkilled the only conf-towm player (as TOWN Vig), when I intentionally made the most hostile ELo (LyLo) for myself, Nightkilling everyone else who was scumread by the townies and whined about it until I won (as scum), when I so blatantly overdid the "look how town I am" that I posted a terrible fake-claim and got hammered in one single page (as scum)...
With Aneninen in the game, everything is possible.

Also, Knott, I have some bad news for you. E.B.O.N.Y. was fully reconstructed 2 years ago. Even more secrets, even more meta and the highest level is above 80 now... ^_^

You quoted only this part, in 388:

Nightkilling everyone else who was scumread by the townies and whined about it until I won (as scum),when I so blatantly overdid the "look how town I am"

which you commented like this (before your quote):

I continued to feel a town vibe on VIP until I read 210. He states in that post, no actually drips with self gratification

And which you crystallized in this:

VIP has been doing the same thing but he has changed in his content as the game has progressed, he seems to be under pressure, why? Not sure. But then is he trying to swing us in his towniness or is it all a bluff and part of his self proclaimed brilliance at faking town when scum. So based on that:

For me, it's obivous that my original post wasn't suitable for the conclusion you drew on me. However, the PART you quoted from my post (which ends in the middle of a sentence!) was perfectly suitable for the same purpose. And you said that you didn't misquote me.

I know most of you think I'm a terrible player, but this is blatantly scummy for me.

VOTE: Afrayed Knott

[Aneninen]

Ok got it, so I’m still on your list?

Yeah

So, Comet, does this mean that it wasn't only me whom that question had given bad vibes?

I think Comet and Python are townie.

Python has given me town vibes since the start of the Day.
As far as I remember Comet's posts, I can give him a townread, too.

Not wrong but also maths/statistics is the strongest tool I have at this point in the game so I'm willing to use it. That and the fact it felt like the VIP vote was added on at the end as like a 'okay I had this post already written out but I see now that the current leading wagon is VIP and VIP isn't me or my scum partner so I'm totally happy to try and push this wagon to end day 1 with a misexecute so I'm just going to tack on a VIP vote at the end of it'. It seems even more likely when you note the timestamps (#388-#393) cause it shows a lot of it has been written up before and then posted all at once so the idea of then tacking on something at the end of it seems to make sense to me?

Could be.
There were about 13 minutes difference between Knott's #394 and #395, but only 3 minutes between #388 and #394. So he pre-wrote all the posts but not the conclusion? I don't think this is informative in itself. Is there anything I miss regarding this topic?

(Stopped at #432, need to walk the dog and other things.)

[Black]

Ok I am here today. Let me make some coffee and then I'll look over what I missed

[Afrayed Knott]

which you commented like this (before your quote):

but that is the part that sticks with me. its not a misquote. And I believe I have said that I recognise the rest of the post, so no I disagree, Your words are such that it says to me we cannot trust you. Do you deny that you have said that you played scum and yet won because you were blatantly over doing the look how town I am? you're words not mine.

[Afrayed Knott]

I know most of you think I'm a terrible player, but this is blatantly scummy for me

I wouldn't say you were a terrible player, but then what would I know. I'm not exactly up there with the top scum hunters , but yes that is scummy of you, only because you have something in your crop about me.

[Afrayed Knott]

There were about 13 minutes difference between Knott's #394 and #395, but only 3 minutes between #388 and #394. So he pre-wrote all the posts but not the conclusion? I don't think this is informative in itself. Is there anything I miss regarding this topic?

I've explained this, when you get back from your walk read my response, anyway keep digging.

[Afrayed Knott]

how about posting more about them to show us why they are scummy?

I have, but two of them are quite quiet so there's a reason in itself, the other continues to vibe scum to me.

That said and putting to one side your post about being a good scummy boi and misleading town, I must admit you still vibe town, so ok... you can go in the town drawer for now. As I actually do see good reasoning on most of your input

[Gimli]

Ok I am here today. Let me make some coffee and then I'll look over what I missed

do your thing and let me sheep you

[Black]

*camera pans to Black still laying in bed*

Alright alright I'll get up. I lost my job yesterday so I'm just slightly depressed

[Afrayed Knott]

*camera pans to Black still laying in bed*

Alright alright I'll get up. I lost my job yesterday so I'm just slightly depressed

Sorry to hear that Black. I hope you can figuratively and literally get back on your feet ....

[Kittiesecret]

Ok I have a massive post with my thoughts I will break it down into sections so its less intimidating to read. I apologize in advance.

These thoughts are in the reading up until yesterday morning I have not read any further...yet...

My first case will be against Gimli, which I believe is the strongest case for scum:


First post of the game was to say he is town, Bold, Brazen even.

im town

Followed by a little RVS to get the ball rolling coo coo

In post 39, Kittiesecret wrote:
Hai!

This is my first ever game, on any site... please be gentle
VOTE: kittiesecret

Not inherently scummy on its own, but a little sus


then we have this:

talk to me about python

followed by this, less then a minute later:

or don't its too early

Like he wanted to draw attention, but not to much attention. This is part of what lead me to the feeling that Gimli and Python were working together. but I'll get in to that more later.


then:

I'm fully on board with the comet wagon

followed by:

rescind liking the comet wagon

I don't know who to vote. I never scumread kittie, just tried to give her a warm welcome via naked voting and seeing what happened afterwards.

felt this with the previous posts were "trying to hard to look towny"


(checked out of the game for almost 2 days)

I'm kinda zoned out of this game and don't remember anything anymore sorry

I think this is a gamestate in which town loses the majority of the time btw

came back to say this and make more non commital remarks

Im pretty sure I'm just gonna be null on everyone but I'm doing ISOs now I guess.

I decided I like Black this game

I'm also probably vibing with Timmer

I kinda vibe with afrayed knott

Here he seems to be coming through with a decision, although this was following other accusations against VIP.

VOTE: VIP

I guess I can kill that which I don't understand

To pull it back immediately when it looked like the experiment it went wrong.

UNVOTE: VIP

what

In post 284, usesPython wrote:
In post 279, Gimli wrote:
okay I'll play along
kinda hate this post tbh
kinda hate your test tbh

why do you hate it? cuz your team mate almost gotten taken out??? and you were almost part of it.

VIP was never near hammer and my surprise was that I initially thought people thought VIP was hammered

I unvoted cause I thought for a second it was L-1 and not python trolling (don't wanna put anyone in L-1)

Backpeddle

nah VIP had 3 votes counting mine I'm pretty sure

Backpaddle

yeah idk maybe im scum

self deprecating distraction

also Id definitely announce E-1 if I realised what I was doing

Backpaddle

why dont you just kill me instead of parsing through my clumsyness

self depricating distraction

I think VIP is town

A declaration of support for the play he was just convinced was scum...


Do with this compilation of information what you will.

[Kittiesecret]

My second case is against Python, however as the game has gone on, I may lean away from this though I feel that may be because they have started to "play" the game.

Again I apologize for the length, and these reads only cover until (my) yesterday morning.

First post of the game

VOTE: Gimli

to change their vote

idk what an Umbreon is but I'm always down for slander

VOTE: Black

this definitly looks like RVS not inherrinitlly scummy

the changed their Vote back

VOTE: Gimli

followed Gimlis Vote against myself

In post 40, Gimli wrote:
im town
I believe you

VOTE: kittiesecret

then "played" it off as just a little fun RVS

They can't be Masons, we rolled Vigilante

this seemed like an odd remark, like maybe they knew more then what they were letting on.

Gimli's pretty obvtown

do you think that tho you voted for him twice thus far? this felt like a distraction


a vote change, this feels like honest RVS

VOTE: TimmerRC do something interesting

7 min later so easily desuaded

In post 59, Aneninen wrote:
Timmer.
A newer player with a lot of questions. If he had a scumbuddy, he'd have been given answers in their chat. Therefore,
Town
I can kinda see it unless his partner is also new

VOTE: Knott

Yeah that's intentional, we don't actually care who gets wagoned this early on so we just jump on whatever wagons are happening to make number go up and let the people with actual opinions duke it out until we have something to work with

felt "mansplainy" and deceptive.

In post 132, Gimli wrote:
I'm fully on board with the comet wagon
I have no opinion about a comet wagon

VOTE: Comet

no comment about it but your on there with Gimli

Are people really metaing 7 year old games?

I found this interesting when they then went on to do the same thing...

Are people really metaing 7 year old games?

In post 65, usesPython from Open 880 Notes PT wrote:
In post 64, usesPython wrote:
Being universally townread while basically openwolfing is pretty funny
Python: "yeah our cases are there exclusively to be townread"

Everyone else: "damn this dude town as hell"
I was gonna point out that we absolutely would openwolf like that and that we did and noted it day 1 that game but if you didn't read it then nvm

No wait you read our Notes PT that game you should have seen our comment on that

My Notes PT.

Our Notes PT

Quoting these so that I will read them when I have time

Table of Contents

I'm impressed by you having a table of contents for a notes PT

My initial gut was Gimli and Python, I'm leaning away from that towards Gimli VIP