Mini Normal 2322: Game Over

[Hu Tao]

Scum is HPE/Geraint + 1 of Hu Tao/DE like most times here.

Nope.

You know I say things I don’t mean in day chat to see where people go a lot right?

I’m a heavy reaction test player

[Hu Tao]

Dragon are you still sure about your purple read? Do you have extensive play with them?

[Hu Tao]

So here’s my conclusion

When i claimed my confirmed Vig shot, I became a scary IC. This made every slot have to fear for the vig shot and not able to push me.

It then became a game of town trying to get me to town read them and scum trying to prevent that.

So I’m gonna side with team Dragon Eater/Hu Tao because they tried harder to get me on the same page with them, and every single day phase at one point, i started the day early town reading the two of them.

+

I already went through my possibilities with them, and i have no more effort to fight for that, and they’ll just win with higher effort if they are scum.

So yeah, Hu Tao/Dragon/FL town core.

Let's gooooo

[Hu Tao]

Holy shark, Purple has never once voted in this game.

Brother, how

this is so funny

[Hu Tao]

HPE has also had the worst reads this game, and sheeped into both wagons. Actively helped push Lap too, when Lap was obv town.

I think we go hpe today, I agree

[Hu Tao]

Has anyone in here played with me as scum btw?
Can people.recall what I am.like.as scum?

Nope

[Hu Tao]

Do you even have a read on me HPE, or are you just saying this to discredit Flavor?

Also do you have a read on Hu Tao?

This one's had you as solid town for a while, partly because its a little wary of jumping to conclusions about you and forming a bad scumread like it has in a past few games. HT is still null and considering the circumstances that makes her closer to a scumlean because actually not being able to read her is terrifying?

Lowkey gera/pav/HT scumteam seems viable but it doesn't wanna overlook slots like you and purple either.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who still feels this way about HT at this point, I continue to be baffled that people townread that slot, let alone strongly townread

Unless you're scum discrediting in which case I'm annoyed that I'm agreeing with you, even though I do agree with you

Probably since they have more experience with me than you. This is our first game together right?

[Hu Tao]

Purple, could you give some thoughts on some other slots

Like HPE, Gamma, Hu Tao in particular

What the word 'slot' means? You all use it

From the three of them, most to the less
1. HPE
2 gamma
3 hu tao
Hu tao act like a town, and talk cool
Idk about gamma
HPE probably the best choice, and its kinda make sense

Thanks. You talk cool too

[Hu Tao]

I'm still fine with hpe today. FL you okay with this?

[Hu Tao]

So yeah, Hu Tao/Dragon/FL town core.

Let's gooooo

High five, sis!

@HT I'm still waiting for my high five.

🖐

[Hu Tao]

I think I like pav for town out of the rest. Not sure.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: hpe

[Hu Tao]

Can we hammer hpe already? Its just flailing.

[Hu Tao]

If hpe is town I'm not sure who is scum.

[Hu Tao]

I guess if hpe is town I just need to get 1 more town read so either way not so bad.

[Hu Tao]

[Hu Tao]

Ha ha ha we're in hell

Is this not good?

[Hu Tao]

Do we think hpe would set that up? Knowing likely it would be voted out before cw

[Hu Tao]

Right now I'm trusting dragon's meta read on purple

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: gera

[Hu Tao]

[Hu Tao]

Who did you try to shoot last night?

[Hu Tao]

I still think it's probably Gera here

[Hu Tao]

Just my gut

[Hu Tao]

It’s more of a ‘at least I caught that’ consolation, i still would like to catch Dragon as scum, if scum.

I don’t see a world where one of Hu Tao or Dragon isn’t scum.

I can show you the world
Shining, shimmering, splendid
Tell me, Princess
Now, when did you last let your heart decide?
I can open your eyes
Take you wonder by wonder
Over, sideways and under
On a magic carpet ride

A whole new world.

[Hu Tao]

I think last 2 are in gera/gamma/cw.

With cw I can see hpe and cw being partners. I agree that hpe was being serious when it said it wouldn't be partners with cw. Which is why I think cw was told to stop trolling. Thoughts?

[Hu Tao]

Reasons behind which part?

And I wasn't asking who is Flavor suspecting, I was asking who they should suspect (who you think it makes sense for them to suspect).

Thoughts on what I said about cw last page? Also thoughts on gera?

[Hu Tao]

Probably later, not really feeling up to play mafia today

No worries. Hope you feel better friend

[Hu Tao]

Thing is, I can see Vig + Cop vs JK

Vig + Cop + JK has the potential to win N1, which i don’t love.

I agree that seems strong for us. But scum probably have 2 strong prs left?

[Hu Tao]

I think Dragon's just been trying to control my vote and planning to deep wolf.

At some point if Dragon is scum he will have to kill you. So we worry about that then.

[Hu Tao]

I could be sold on scum!Purple, especially given recent play as I said earlier

I could also be sold on scum!CW, I think there's merit in the HPE/CW beef as s/s

That would leave out Dragon and Hu Tao, though

i agree with merit in HPE/CW potential beef.

That being said, I think CW since Day 2 has been spitting pure genuineness, even at the extent of being ridiculous.

And I actually think based on the way DE and CW reacted to my vig, they arent scum together here (also CW push on DE)

VOTE: DragonEater

I'm willing to take this day to stop DE. I've been trying to die frankly, because I can completely tell scum are actively trying to work me.

Terrible vote

[Hu Tao]

Thing is, I can see Vig + Cop vs JK

Vig + Cop + JK has the potential to win N1, which i don’t love.

I agree that seems strong for us. But scum probably have 2 strong prs left?

i saw you say this earlier in my reread against just a Vig/Cop. I am torn with you. There's a lot of things that I can see coming from Tao Town, but I think if you are town, Dragon has used you this game a lot, and thus is forcing an associative from you. Right now, I think 3rd scum is you or maybe Geraint, but frankly, I'm starting to see the town Geraint I know. Purple or Gamma have some, but it's a little harder for me to see on this reread of mine.


PEdit: I'm starting to see that, Geraint. Would you be open to voting Dragon? I think that would ease the associations, because I dont believe you bus here.

If you think it's Gera why not just vote with me on gera?

[Hu Tao]

I do agree it was better to try and stop a kill as jk than jail you after getting scum yesterday. But if he was scum why wouldn't he just kill someone else here? Or you and pretend he was on someone else?

[Hu Tao]

Thing is, I can see Vig + Cop vs JK

Vig + Cop + JK has the potential to win N1, which i don’t love.

I agree that seems strong for us. But scum probably have 2 strong prs left?

i saw you say this earlier in my reread against just a Vig/Cop. I am torn with you. There's a lot of things that I can see coming from Tao Town, but I think if you are town, Dragon has used you this game a lot, and thus is forcing an associative from you. Right now, I think 3rd scum is you or maybe Geraint, but frankly, I'm starting to see the town Geraint I know. Purple or Gamma have some, but it's a little harder for me to see on this reread of mine.


PEdit: I'm starting to see that, Geraint. Would you be open to voting Dragon? I think that would ease the associations, because I dont believe you bus here.

If you think it's Gera why not just vote with me on gera?

You see, I don't get a Vig with Dragon living. On a setup level, it doesn't make sense for Dragon to be town here based on the setup.

You talk about scum having 2 Strong PR's still.

What have they been doing with them then? Role Cop. Weak af. Ascetic to block a Jailkeeper shot and cop? Fine, then it still makes sense to hit the JK here.

There's just reasons and reasons why Dragon is objectively and mechanically scum here, and you aren't providing a single reason against it.

And thats because I think you are pocketed probs, could you be defending and you played together that much? Sure.

But speak to me, Hu Tao. Why does Dragon town read you?

I think it's cause he has read me wrong as town before tbh. But regardless I think his claim is town.

[Hu Tao]

As in I was town and he thought I was scum all game

[Hu Tao]

also, another big one, we just gonna sit here and act like all 3 scum claim Vanilla in a low PR game with no scum revealed?

Especially considering if scum were really going against JK, Cop, and Vig, as Hu Tao said, there would be 2 strong PR's on the scum team, and they just all choose to claim Vanilla, and then we hit a Goon?

Ya, no.

This is a JK or Roleblocker, Goon, Goon vs Cop/Vig setup

This is the best argument for dragon scum i agree. But I still think his play isn't making sense as scum here

[Hu Tao]

yeah jailkeeper is the obvious fakeclaim for an rb, also I find it hard to see both being in a setup at the same time so dragon prob felt safe doing it

i think it could be scum Jailkeeper to give the option of protecting a teammate from a vig kill.

in hindsight, i think Hu Tao 2 PR comment constantly is probably scum tmi.

I mean. If there is a vig cop and JK. Surely scum have 2 strong pr? or it doesn't make sense

[Hu Tao]

Why do you keep saying scum have 2 strong PRs? Very weird

I'm just trying to think of balance. If someone is going to think I'm scum for it, oh well.

[Hu Tao]

Also, having a No Kill last night doesn’t extend the game at all either. Scum have to get the same amount of misfades, and they keep an extra slot open to misfade today.

I would say this implies specifically a Scum JK considering scum cannot kill me without my vig shot going through and opening the game up.

Even if they try to kill me, I’m going to rip open the game. They have no choice but to stop me from making a kill.

I called the gambit out BEFORE he even claimed the role.

True. We are still at even numbers.

[Hu Tao]

I’m locked in. This pop in confirms it for me

If Dragon is scum who is the partner? Because I think going there is safer

[Hu Tao]

I don’t think it was pretty clear i town ready you to the extent i wouldn’t Vig you OR your partner.

Pretty clear from my POV

@Pav, Gamma, Purple, Hu Tao

Going into night yesterday after HPE flipped scum, how likely would you have thought that Flavor would shoot me?

My answer: maybe 1%

I thought he'd shoot Gera

[Hu Tao]

I don't think he has the votes to Elim you today anyway. Why do you think it's gamma/pav?

[Hu Tao]

Dragon has been saying that Purple and Hu Tao are always town here. With me also being town, that left Gamma, Pav, CW, and Geraint. It was looking like I would shoot Geraint, right? (I had said I was starting to lean town on Geraint yesterday, but I digress), but even with those odds, that is a 25% chance of blocking a kill going one of those slots, and I could have eliminated another from play, yet they chose to prevent me from making a kill.

The math of the game not mattering if a kill went through or not made sense to No Kill there too because it didn't open up another reveal.

The scum team with any combination of those 4 players also would never No Kill since Dragon claimed 2-shot JK.

Hate to say it, but this does make sense

[Hu Tao]

If town has 3 PRs scum have to have 2, and they've done apparently fuck-all in this game.

If town has 2, scum only have 1.

Which feels more likely given the game state?

I agree this is what I was saying. Let's pretend Dragon is town. What would scum have here? RB? Not sure what else. Role cop? Idk

[Hu Tao]

I pointed this out earlier but the no kill is attempt to get flavor to change his reads and powerwolf
also idk if scum jailkeeper is a role but that would prevent a flavor kill and avoiding dragon getting vigged seemed to be priority #1

I like absolutely nothing about hu tao's play on the past few pages also

Because I'm not just sheeping flavor??

[Hu Tao]

Is gamma likely the partner here?

[Hu Tao]

I have no idea about Gamma

What do you think?

Not sure. I think Gera is the most sus

[Hu Tao]

I'm actually thinking it over. Maybe if Gera was scum he would have jumped on Dragon. Or maybe his partner already did. I wouldn't be surprised if one scum in gamma or pav actually

[Hu Tao]

ngl I’m tired and just want this game to end
Can people post their top 2 preferred votes? Mine are Dragon and Hu Tao

Please explain why because earlier you were scumreading Pav, and both me and HT are town.

Flavor made good points on you, and I dislike Hu Tao’s approach this game day

So if I voted Dragon is that what you would have liked?

[Hu Tao]

If the day ends on me with a wagon that includes Flavor/cw/gera/Gamma/Pav (not necessarily in that order), please flip in this order:

Pav > Gamma > cw

Right now I'm leaning gamma scummiest

[Hu Tao]

maybe, I just feel like you're specifically trying to undermine flavor and I think it could be agenda driven

What???

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Pavowski

Jail me tonight.

I'd prefer gamma or Gera tbh

[Hu Tao]

It’s not purely faith in your read, to be fair.

Jail me 100% of the time tonight.

I make it through tomorrow, or they have to block you to kill me and let’s my kill go through.

I think this is a good compromise

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Pav

i have no clue.

Can we go gamma instead

[Hu Tao]

Why though, HT?

The pav is the towniest of the bunch to me I think

[Hu Tao]

I think*

[Hu Tao]

Okay Flavor, I know this might sound opportunistic as shit, but it's actually not. I'm genuinely thrown off by HT's insistence not to vote either me or Pav this day phase.

So, now's your time to explain to me why she's scum in the world where I am town and Pav is scum.

I can probably do a lot more later, but real quick

She got reason to keep you and Pav alive.

If you die, that’s a giant defense against her gone

The way she unvoted Kyouko after Pav did was baaaaaad

Her and HPE fill opposite sides of the VCA, and merge when necessary

I explained this and you both know this. I catch up by reading in order and reacting to how I read things. So I didn't see pav's unvote. Stop being silly

[Hu Tao]

Hmmm I'll have a look at that unvote.

if I was scum I would not white knight you. If I was scum and knew you were town why wouldn't I jump on your vote and then kill flavor next night?

[Hu Tao]

If I need to vote pav to save Dragon I will. But I'd prefer gamma is all I'm saying.

VOTE: pav

[Hu Tao]

LMAO

[Hu Tao]

I agree this is what I was saying. Let's pretend Dragon is town. What would scum have here? RB? Not sure what else. Role cop? Idk

something that can't be killed at night? would give them some sort of claim that the shooter got stopped somehow?
but i am bad at setup guessing games

Gera. If you're town, you've seen me as scum and town. Do you have any thoughts on me and also gamma? I'm not sure who else you've played with besides us.

[Hu Tao]

Honestly I thought joyboy was scum. So it's from there. And it's pretty much pov at this point. If you're town then I suppose you are capable of making yourself obvtown if need be, which is why I'm fine in voting pav

[Hu Tao]

Yes. The game I was Mason I was sus on you, but you became pretty clear town toward the end of the day, even though you self hammered

[Hu Tao]

Good point. I guess since day 2 it's felt like flavor has been running the show as clear, I haven't put much effort into casing since then. I've been trying to poe it out. Same reason I voted hpe.

[Hu Tao]

If pav is scum then I can just look for 1 scum. If pav is town it's last chance so I have to case regardless of what flavor says.

[Hu Tao]

I'm not the best at cases. I'm not saying it's your fault, I know I need to get better at it. But as I stated at this point it's down to poe

[Hu Tao]

I'm not sure what else you want from me. If I was scum I would not be doing what I'm doing now and you know this.

[Hu Tao]

I don't think Dragon is scum. I've played with dragon scum and I called him out as scum day 1. I can post the game if you want. But that's the reason I have the Town read there.

[Hu Tao]

This is my thought process. 2 scum in this.

Gamma Emerald - joyboy slot was scummy.
Purplemango - Dragon knows them and says they can't be scum based on meta
Pavowski - probably the towniest of the 5 but rather vote than dragon
cw357 - could be scum with hpe based on what I said earlier
geraintm - no clue how to read

This is why I wanted gamma. I wanted cw but no one wanted that earlier even when I explained. Gera I would rather vote now than if there is potentially a last day with 4 town 2 scum.

[Hu Tao]

Seems like they would 100% play a different way

Because he's playing just as he does as town based on previous games. If he was different in general then yeah I would be more sus

[Hu Tao]

What if it’s Purple and Geraint?

That would be pretty sad. But Dragon seemed pretty adamant on purple being town. Gera I have no clue how to read. I think those 2 are the least info votes today though.

[Hu Tao]

Why would 4t2s be the last day?

Is this a slip?

[Hu Tao]

You said Dragon and me were scum. So that means you don't think jk is town. So why wouldn't that be last day?

[Hu Tao]

Gamma saying you imply my shot wouldn’t go off

Because it was stated by you like 3 times in a row you would be jailed. So doesn't make sense from her view

[Hu Tao]

When there’s a chance we hit the roleblocker today

But she stated Dragon is her scumread. So she thinks Dragon is the jk. So it makes no sense

[Hu Tao]

Are you okay?

[Hu Tao]

Sometimes I feel you act a bit excessive, but ok.

[Hu Tao]

Why though, HT?

The pav is the towniest of the bunch to me I think

What do you think about his push on me and about his discredit of previous pushes on HPE?

Could be. Maybe it's just because he seems to be the one trying the most of the bunch

[Hu Tao]

Much apologize, I don't have the juice to comment tonight. Some shitbeak ran off the road and fucked up our mailbox and our yard and drove off and it's just ... stuff on top of stuff. Sorry gang. I'll do my best to get in with some bad takes tomorrow.

Hope all gets better.

[Hu Tao]

I've already stated my stance on purple. I've already stated my stance on Dragon. I think if I was scum with either I would have just gone with the pav vote immediately. Or when Dragon was the vote I would have just voted him if I was scum with purple.

[Hu Tao]

This game is becoming exhausting. I personally still think it's likely gamma here with someone else.

[Hu Tao]

I'm never scum here. And I don't understand why I'm being scumread.

[Hu Tao]

Hu Tao read evolution is the worst of the gang, and if we aren’t going Purple, they’re the 2nd since they stop where i think scum’s at if they’re town or are scum themselves

What's your plan for tomorrow when I flip town?

[Hu Tao]

Can you unvote at least flavor? I can see the lurkers just voting me out soonish.

[Hu Tao]

I'll wait for dragons thoughts

[Hu Tao]

I'll wait for dragons thoughts

On?

Was your last post not saying you had more to say but can't?

[Hu Tao]

I would comment on more things but it's really late because I don't manage my time very well so please forgive me while I go to sleep

I promise I'll contribute more tomorrow.

Nvm I was thinking of this

[Hu Tao]

I need to rethink things because I think Dragon wouldn't put this much effort in as scum. He's comparable to Creature in how much he dislikes playing the alignment.

I agree his vibe is just different as town could tell day 1

[Hu Tao]

I need to rethink things because I think Dragon wouldn't put this much effort in as scum. He's comparable to Creature in how much he dislikes playing the alignment.

I like playing scum but only when I have a team that is really enthusiastic about working together to control the thread, which is sadly in less than 50% of my scum games because a lot of players on this site either just don't like playing scum or play as lone wolves and don't know how to work together.

I hope to be scum with you someday

[Hu Tao]

What do you make of the fact you, Flavor, and hu Tao were on the Lap and HPE wagons together, Dragon?

I was not on lap

[Hu Tao]

I think joyboy/gamma is still the worst slot here

This does not seem like a real read, you’re just coasting on your prior stance without re-evaluating.

Based on your earlier post, you said my read made sense so I'm probably scum. Still feel the same? Cause you're kinda saying here my read doesn't make sense and implying I'm still scum

where the hell did I say this? I saw zero logic behind your Joyboy read when skimming your ISO just now so I'm 99% percent that I was talking about something else

I'll find it

[Hu Tao]

Only reads I'm comfortable with right now is Flavor and dragon Town. Joyboy is sus but I'm not 100% on him being scum

This is pretty reasonable post which probably makes Hu Tao scum

[Hu Tao]

More I read. More I think pav is still the correct vote today

[Hu Tao]

Only reads I'm comfortable with right now is Flavor and dragon Town. Joyboy is sus but I'm not 100% on him being scum

This is pretty reasonable post which probably makes Hu Tao scum

the main agreements were on the flavor and dragon reads

Ah okay. I thought you meant the whole thing

[Hu Tao]

More I read. More I think pav is still the correct vote today

Didn't you say he was town? What changed your mind?

I thought he was the most town of the group but it was probably because he did the most work.

[Hu Tao]

I’m just not okay having this game move forward with the possibility of me not in it in a gamestate where it benefits a dragon or Hu Tao scum member.

But Flavah, I am jailing you. And you can even shoot Hu if you really want. So if you die Hu dies, and if she doesn't I'm confscum.

I'm fine with this

[Hu Tao]

I already explained. I unvoted as I caught up in real time.

[Hu Tao]

[Hu Tao]

Do you even know what I was eyerolling

[Hu Tao]

Who is creature

[Hu Tao]

I'll wait for the replacement

[Hu Tao]

As in I was town and he thought I was scum all game

Which game was that?

I'd have to check

[Hu Tao]

Is that not hammer on me?

[Hu Tao]

Oh well. Good luck finding last 2 scum.

[Hu Tao]

This game was hell for sure.

[Hu Tao]

If anything I’m moving further and further away from it

Next time try not to be so caught up in your views and be willing to compromise

[Hu Tao]

Nvm I'm dumb. But I am E-1 now

[Hu Tao]

Dragon and purple are no votes for me. You also choose 2 no votes. And I'm willing to vote in the rest

[Hu Tao]

Okay so a 3/3 split

If Hu Tao flips scum we lock town Pav and if she flips town we lockscum Pav

Maybe

I am not actually good at VCA

But why would I have to be the vote?

[Hu Tao]

Is hammering Hu Tao here not a scum claim?

Anyway I'm jailing Flavor and would appreciate if he shot in my PoE.

Is that a slip?

TELL ME that's not a

slip

, Dragon.

It isn't.

Why you voting there?

Then EXPLAIN yourself.

If you jail Flavor HOW can he shoot in your POE?

I'm putting pressure on Hu Tao for now. Something about Gamma's reaction to Hu Tao seemed sincere, and I was aiming to replace her but there was an open slot prior to that. So now we'll wait and see what happens.

Gamma doesn't like me in general so I think it's NAI

[Hu Tao]

There is no fucking way mod would do

Cop/vig/jk/bp against roleblocker with no juggernaut.

No shot we have a BP. Scum if they have a strong arm or something would have used it already no?

[Hu Tao]

I thought RN was just claiming for fun

Is this a serious claim, Nurse

Stop ruining my gambit, Bro.

Sus

[Hu Tao]

Wait, RN always claims 1 shot BP, it is a fake claim

Oh okay

[Hu Tao]

Issue is, if it is Geraint/Hu Tao, and I end up dying, I don’t expect Dragon to let Hu Tao go down.

My main issue with going Geraint.

I think it is Geraint/Hu Tao as of this moment, but maybe Geraint/Gamma as a backup.

Why do you think hpe and I could be partnered?

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Hu Tao

Let’s just go Hu Tao first, then I’ll Vig Geraint, Dragon jails me.

This way if they block Dragon to kill me, Geraint dies.

I don’t think Dragon should go for inno’s if Hu Tao is scum.

I'm not scum here.

[Hu Tao]

I think yeeting HPE and vigging Gera/Pav probably won't go too wrong.

VOTE: hpe

Yeah, i think Hu Tao bussed.

While they were leaning towards it, Hu Tao waited until Drsgon made the comment to put the nail in the coffin.

I think Hu Tao’s vote ended the day (not literally, but it brought us to that) meaning i think this is when scum crossed the line of “yeah, let’s bus”

Did you forget I wanted HPE DAY 1????

[Hu Tao]

I would prefer Hu Tao over Geraint here still based on the likelihood scum is in there, that I don’t think without me in the game, it ever goes through.

Everybody else has been able to come in and town it up when they post, i don’t think Hu Tao has done that.

I'm confused. Dragon said he's jailing you tonight. How would you not be here tomorrow?

[Hu Tao]

I thought RN was just claiming for fun

Is this a serious claim, Nurse

Stop ruining my gambit, Bro.

Sus

Even if you're town you scumread me every game so I'm not surprised

[Hu Tao]

I think yeeting HPE and vigging Gera/Pav probably won't go too wrong.

VOTE: hpe

Yeah, i think Hu Tao bussed.

While they were leaning towards it, Hu Tao waited until Drsgon made the comment to put the nail in the coffin.

I think Hu Tao’s vote ended the day (not literally, but it brought us to that) meaning i think this is when scum crossed the line of “yeah, let’s bus”

Did you forget I wanted HPE DAY 1????

REALLY, DAY 1?

Oh, well, shit, I guess that means you're confirmed Town.

Silly us, shit.

I could be confirmed town and you'd still scumread me, so I'm not going to try and convince you

[Hu Tao]

Purple don't let them pressure you. What are your reads?

[Hu Tao]

I remember the time when Purple's only vote of the game was to hammer HPE when I was already gonna do it the next morning

That was neat

It was mostly because you said you were going to do it, and it was very clear that hpe scum
Right now this is less the case for me anyway

Are you voting anyone currently?

not really
maybe tomorrow, We have at least four days, and that's something more impactful than just talking

I do generally support voting for hu tao

Why am I scum?

[Hu Tao]

I’m less concerned about why why are you scum and more concerned about the why are you town?

Because it said vanilla town

[Hu Tao]

Is it just me or has Hu Tao's responses become more jagged and brief?

Because I'm tired of the back and forth tbh. Why should I try if I'm just going to be eliminated anyway. FL basically said so with his team options

[Hu Tao]

Why?

[Hu Tao]

I've never done that. You can check any of my completed games

[Hu Tao]

Lemme check myself before taking someone this one is wary of at face value

Okay checks out thank you :salute:
VOTE: Laplacian

Looks like you're just voting them since you're getting heat too.

VOTE: HPE

Might be because I don't see the reason for the Lap scumread though

Heat? From who?? One guy?? Get real.

I won't steal it

However, I'll use this pagebottom to say I'm fine with a Pav/Flavor/Dragon town core for now

And I'm also going to revote HPE

VOTE: HPE

snoreeee mimimimimi. includes self in the towncore too...

Do you think DE70 putting himself in his towncore is suspicious?

I think you thinking it's suspicious is suspicious. Sounds like an NAI thing regardless of who does it.

286!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not partnered with hpe, look at it discrediting me at every post

[Hu Tao]

Yeah this one doesn't think 47 was a normal or towny way of getting out of RVS like at all.

Hmm okay

Would you vote Thomith here?

i just have a hard time seeing Dragon play this way as scum. it's over the line of too much as scum, that i think it's just genuine.

im pocketed cuz of it if they are scum, though, so ill have to break out of that later in the game if it turns out they are, but thats not a Day 1 thing

This one doesn't think Dragon is scum tbh just not playing so well lmao

Sadly this makes me slightly less confident about the scumread

If Lap and HT stopped existing, sure.

Another discredit

[Hu Tao]

can you give me a short list for everyone?

Flavor Leaf

cw357

(but needs to Get Real or Get Dead)

DragonEater70

Hu Tao
ssbm_Kyouko (this one needs to bother reading her iso so fucking bad)
Purplemango

geraintm

Joyboy

Pavowski

Purplemango feels the best out of the 3 lurkers but all of them really, really need to start contributing.

This makes me think purple is town as I've stated before. Hpe pleading for purple to be more engaged. If they were partners hpe would say this privately. I think it's just trying to soft defend a townie

[Hu Tao]

Gamma can read me I am safe

Genuinely, what was our last game together where we were both town and I read you correctly?

also kyouko, why did you just auto assume gamma was town here?

Kyouko hasn't been very interested in Joyboy all game outside of hypothesizing him as a partner to scum!Lap (along with... 6 other players.) and some random off-hand inclusions in scumpools before suddenly changing her tune and asking others why Joyboy is scum. Now that Gamma's replaced in she's sucking up to her hoping to get bailed out meaning either:
A. scum!Kyouko thinks town!Gamma can save her hide with a "correct" townread.
or B. lol they're partnered

I don't think I agree with B. Since it looks like Kyouko was more pleading rather than anything.

Yeah it's probably A but still thought it was an interesting possibility.

Anti-partner talk. Looks like HPE was trying to setup something and I quickly shut it down.

[Hu Tao]

Actually fucking yeah thinking about the wagon shifts is giving me a brain blast. Kyouko/Hu Tao/Pavowski team feels very possible with Pavowski re-voting and trying to play it cool and not look too suspect after HT also gets off. Maybe this one is overlooking the possibility of Dragon since he's a townlean for it and needed a nudge from Kyouko (and similarly to Pav, has said it's only a temporary unvote) but even then it feels like there's BARE MINIMUM 2 scum in Kyouko/Pav/HT/Dragon.

I removed my vote as a gesture. Especially since joyboy was getting replaced anyway, day wasn't ending

You did it after Pavowski had already done it

Also we didn't know Joyboy was getting replaced by then either. HT unvoted in 1390, and JB's replacement announcement came in 1452.

This post was HPE trying to shade me for something again.

[Hu Tao]

Do I know who is scum here? No. I'm not the best at scumhunting, I admit. But I think Dragon and purple are town and HPE has had anti- partner talk with me. I'm willing to trust RN as town since I did think cw was townish before. So that leaves me with the rest as my poe

[Hu Tao]

Pav might be scum, because I did try to push hpe

[Hu Tao]

Pav/Gamma/Gera 2/3 is scum.

If we vote out in them we win

[Hu Tao]

I tried to get hpe out day 1 twice. As you can see all game I haven't pushed hard on anyone but that's just how I am at times. I'll quote though

[Hu Tao]

Lemme check myself before taking someone this one is wary of at face value

Okay checks out thank you :salute:
VOTE: Laplacian

Looks like you're just voting them since you're getting heat too.

VOTE: HPE

Might be because I don't see the reason for the Lap scumread though

Okay I need someone who scumreads lap to explain the lap scumread. Preferably Kyouko. I feel like I usually see eye to eye with her but this game, I'm not. I haven't seen her as scum yet so I'm a bit worried about that tbh.

All roads always lead back to this VOTE: HPE

Only thing holding me back is I always scumread it early. HPE has a habit of doing something scummy early and then it's town after flip. Just like the smugglers game. Kyouko, taking your tunnel out of consideration, thoughts on HPE?

Asking kyouko since she was the only one I'm that game where me and hpe was tvt

Lemme check myself before taking someone this one is wary of at face value

Okay checks out thank you :salute:
VOTE: Laplacian

Looks like you're just voting them since you're getting heat too.

VOTE: HPE

My reaction when I read this the first time through was "what heat", and rereading, trying to be less tunneled on Laplacian and more aware of what else is going on in the thread, I still think "what heat"? Must be Thomith/DE? Or was it just DE at this point when it voted Laplacian?

When I post I read in real time. So at the time of that post there were discussions about HPE. So it looks like it just voted to push the lap narrative.

Kyouko did you ever reply to my post asking if you see any similarities between this game and the smugglers game for HPE? I have a tendency to scumread HPE a lot, so not sure.

As context I'll post the smuggler game I was in with hpe and kyouko..basically hpe started tunneling me and then I started scumreading hpe for it and we were both town. This was our previous game. Which is why I was asking kyouko about her hpe read.

[Hu Tao]

viewtopic.php?t=91984 pretty short game if you wanna read the hpe and me tvt

[Hu Tao]

We still waiting on a gamma replacement?

[Hu Tao]

Yeah same. Also pav asked for my reason for why I'm not partnered with hpe but ignores it

[Hu Tao]

hu tao, you town?

Yes

[Hu Tao]

Black replaces Gamma Emerald.

Yaaay!

[Hu Tao]

139 is pinging me. Specifically, Dragon mentioning that HPE has three scum posts already, while also calling Hu town when she hadn't even done anything at that point. Seems like an informed perspective

VOTE: Dragon

Nope. Dragon is town

[Hu Tao]

BTW

Flavor, the reason I haven't been very excited to sheep you onto Hu Tao has to do with seeing you try to push town!Tao in the other game. So with no disrespect meant, I am aware of the possibility that you have a wrong meta read on her.

Yeah I didn't want to bring it up. But it feels similar.

[Hu Tao]

I’m kind of feeling like Black is the play today, if scum, go Geraint, if town, go Dragon tomorrow.

Something feels weird.

I feel like Black would know Dragon's town energy so I'm surprised she scumreads her here. Which makes me think she could just be scum

[Hu Tao]

I think that last game was the first time Hu Tao and I lost as town/town together.

Yep I think so

[Hu Tao]

Gamma is Bingle this game, Hu Tao.

I can see it

[Hu Tao]

139 is pinging me. Specifically, Dragon mentioning that HPE has three scum posts already, while also calling Hu town when she hadn't even done anything at that point. Seems like an informed perspective

VOTE: Dragon

Nope. Dragon is town

Why?

Dragons vibe as town and scum are completely different.

[Hu Tao]

Maybe it's just Dragon/Hu. I'm not really liking her shading me here after a couple of people have already shown interest in voting for me

How is it shading if I'm telling you this directly?

[Hu Tao]

Hu Tao making several posts about how she has anti-partner equity with HPE doesn't feel good. She seems pretty defensive in those posts, like she felt good about not being linked to HPE and then suddenly got accused of it

How convenient for you to leave out the reasoning. It's because I was asked so here specifically

Pav/Gamma/Gera 2/3 is scum.

If we vote out in them we win

Pav might be scum, because I did try to push hpe

I did all that work and this is all you got?

I'm not doing another ISO dive, please linky linky your HPE push

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Black

Yeah I think black is just scum

[Hu Tao]

If tomorrow is a no kill night it's good for us. Regardless of flip here

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Black

Yeah I think black is just scum

Can you answer 3290

He's just more engaged and energetic as town. As scum he's frozen, more disconnected from the game. It's like the one game he was scum and fake claimed jk, I called him scum day 1 there. I'm pretty confident in meta reading dragon

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Black

Yeah I think black is just scum

Can you answer 3290

He's just more engaged and energetic as town. As scum he's frozen, more disconnected from the game. It's like the one game he was scum and fake claimed jk, I called him scum day 1 there. I'm pretty confident in meta reading dragon

Besides Flavorless Hell what other scum games have you read of his?

Not sure. But it's drastically different from the town ones

[Hu Tao]

Also are you townreading Dragon for anything other than your meta read?

Yes. I don't see the reason for the no kills here as scum. Especially when there was all scum alive

[Hu Tao]

If he was scum he could easily block and kill flavor early on after claimed d2

[Hu Tao]

Also are you townreading Dragon for anything other than your meta read?

Yes. I don't see the reason for the no kills here as scum. Especially when there was all scum alive

If he was scum he could easily block and kill flavor early on after claimed d2

That's it? Meta and this wifom argument are the only reasons you townread him?

Wifom? No. I think he's done nothing scummy either.

[Hu Tao]

Also are you townreading Dragon for anything other than your meta read?

Yes. I don't see the reason for the no kills here as scum. Especially when there was all scum alive

If he was scum he could easily block and kill flavor early on after claimed d2

That's it? Meta and this wifom argument are the only reasons you townread him?

Wifom? No. I think he's done nothing scummy either.

Are you just going to pretend like my other post doesn't exist? Your meta read doesn't make sense and I want you to explain it better

To me it does. Until I read him wrong with it at least

[Hu Tao]

No. But like I said he's completely different as town. I've seem him more as town. And you've been in some of those games. Which is why I'm confused

[Hu Tao]

No. But like I said he's completely different as town. I've seem him more as town. And you've been in some of those games. Which is why I'm confused

So your entire read is based on Flawless Hell in which he admitted he was disconnected from due to IRL stuff. Do you understand why I think this is a bad meta read?

Like I stated it's not just that. It doesn't make sense for scum to do what he did. He would have easier ways to win

[Hu Tao]

Been there all game, Black.

I don't think it's a real read and she is purposely avoiding going into detail about it

How is this not a real read? I've explained my read over and over and over. I'm sorry you don't agree with it, but this is how I base my reads. I've not been wrong on him in any of my games.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Hu Tao]

Yeah. I think black is just scum

[Hu Tao]

I thought I was already voting black?

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Black

Yeah I think black is just scum

Yeah vote count is wrong

[Hu Tao]

This is scum!Hu

What makes my scum meta? When have you ever read me correctly as scum?

[Hu Tao]

Been there all game, Black.

I don't think it's a real read and she is purposely avoiding going into detail about it

How is this not a real read? I've explained my read over and over and over. I'm sorry you don't agree with it, but this is how I base my reads. I've not been wrong on him in any of my games.

I've explained over and over and over how it's a bad read and instead of reevaluating you're just ignoring all my points. It doesn't feel like you want to solve for Dragon. That's because you already know his alignment and are committed to the pocket attempt

Okay. Since you're new I'll level with you. Tell me why Dragon is scum here then.

[Hu Tao]

Been there all game, Black.

I don't think it's a real read and she is purposely avoiding going into detail about it

How is this not a real read? I've explained my read over and over and over. I'm sorry you don't agree with it, but this is how I base my reads. I've not been wrong on him in any of my games.

I've explained over and over and over how it's a bad read and instead of reevaluating you're just ignoring all my points. It doesn't feel like you want to solve for Dragon. That's because you already know his alignment and are committed to the pocket attempt

Okay. Since you're new I'll level with you. Tell me why Dragon is scum here then.

I think Dragon might be town actually

You're scum though

[Hu Tao]

So is this game dead already? That sucks.

Btw I am an Alien Novice Death-Millerizer 2-Shot Vigilante.

Sus post. How is it dead? It's been less than a day?

It means "I read this person's post and was thinking whether I should vote them or not based on the post, and I concluded that I don't want to vote them. And then I decided that simply passively not voting is not enough, I should be actively not voting them"

And basically the heal tag is a way to actively not vote someone I guess.

Since when have you started doing this?

It's really hard to sheep Flavor when he doesn't give me scumreads to work with btw

This is flavor most of the time in the beginning of games, not sure why you're surprised

It'd be weirdly straightforward but it feels like it could just be {Laplacian, DE, ???}

Dragon feels like he wants anything

but

for the focus to be on Laplacian and Laplacian feels like he knows he's toast and is trying to Distance from DE before he goes down

This is wild because I feel like we see things completely different right now. I don't think dragon is that scummy ATM.

Hey Hu, who (lol?) are you feeling towny on right now? Just curious.

Flavor since I've seen him do this as town. Dragon is a maybe. Think that's it. I usually don't give townreads or scumreads too easy though.

i just have a hard time seeing Dragon play this way as scum. it's over the line of too much as scum, that i think it's just genuine.

im pocketed cuz of it if they are scum, though, so ill have to break out of that later in the game if it turns out they are, but thats not a Day 1 thing

I don't think he can't play this way as scum, but I don't think he's done anything that scummy.

Getting more sus on Dragoneater. Despite having the most posts by a good 60% margin, their posts are proportionally low-content and fell back to the sheeping post from page 1 when Pav called out his weird vote pattern in 358. Their push for HPE feels legit though and not like a preemptive bus, so I'm feeling 1 scum between DE and HPE.

Don't love this thought tbh

Do you usually love when someone scumreads you?

I'm at E-2, no shit I'm in survival mode. The two leading votes are basically me vs you right now, and I know I'm town while you've been exuding scum vibes, so ofc I'm going to try to get people to vote smart instead of following ssmb's train tunnel to a mislim.

Then actually find and vote scum

? He's saying he's voting someone who is scummy. What do you mean

@mod could you please confirm there's no error in the wiki, in setup creation or in the tagging of the setup as Simple, and that N1 roles are impossible in this game?

Oh wait. You're serious in your scumread of FL for that? I thought it was a joke

Night 1’s not my modifier, just wanted to WIFOM scum to have them wonder if I have another shot or not.

You looking scared, DragonEater.

I was 100% making it look like it was you. You been trying to pocket me all game.

Scared about what

I correctly read you as the vig, just voted you cause your claim made no sense

UNVOTE:

Oh okay figured

As you can see in the beginning of the game I was immediately sus of Dragon. And was asking questions throughout. I was not 100% on my Town read of Dragon in the beginning. But I slowly locked him as town. Scum wasted an opportunity to have themselves ahead when they did not kill anyone for those nights in a row and they gave us an extra Elim. If Dragon was scum he would have no reason to no kill 3 nights in a row, especially when no one was sus of him. He didn't even claim day 2 when there was a no kill day 3. As scum he could have just blocked and killed flavor and claimed something else to not have spotlight on him. By not doing this, he gave town more chances to win. Not only do i not see dragon doing this, but i do not see a whole scum team agreeing to it. Maybe if the team was all lurkers or something but we know HPE was scum, so I doubt hpe would go along with that. Sorry, I suppose since I've been going round and around with everyone a few times, I didn't give you a proper explanation and was a little short.

[Hu Tao]

Why do you scumread Pav?

Tbf I was against pav. I thought he was the towniest of the bunch originally but we were in a deadlock and pav seemed to be the compromise at the time

[Hu Tao]

That long post was to black. I should start using spaces, my post looks so disorganized

[Hu Tao]

If Dragon was scum he would have no reason to no kill 3 nights in a row, especially when no one was sus of him

Do you think this is exclusive to Dragon or do you think there are other players that would no-kill?

I could see flavor doing it as like a gambit if he was in a bad situation and had to as scum. But most players wouldn't.

[Hu Tao]

As scum he could have just blocked and killed flavor and claimed something else to not have spotlight on him.

What do you mean he could have blocked FL if he were scum?

He's claimed jk. He's confirmed jk since he's blocked flavor. So he could kill and block flavor and not have to worry about a pr or playing around it.

[Hu Tao]

If Dragon was scum he would have no reason to no kill 3 nights in a row, especially when no one was sus of him

Do you think this is exclusive to Dragon or do you think there are other players that would no-kill?

I could see flavor doing it as like a gambit if he was in a bad situation and had to as scum. But most players wouldn't.

I'm curious why you seem to think Dragon wouldn't no kill as scum when he did it twice in Flavorless Hell. It wasn't really the optimal play there either and the only person that really suspected him was you

There is a difference. There he was last scum and people already scumread him. Here all scum alive and cop is dead with a Vig claimed already. There is no need to take a risk in a heavily scum favored position

[Hu Tao]

So FL is mechanically confirmed?

There's no possible one-shot kill roll with scum in this setup?

Flavor is 100% town confirmed. I think scum vig aren't allowed in normals

[Hu Tao]

If Dragon was scum he would have no reason to no kill 3 nights in a row, especially when no one was sus of him

Do you think this is exclusive to Dragon or do you think there are other players that would no-kill?

I could see flavor doing it as like a gambit if he was in a bad situation and had to as scum. But most players wouldn't.

I'm curious why you seem to think Dragon wouldn't no kill as scum when he did it twice in Flavorless Hell. It wasn't really the optimal play there either and the only person that really suspected him was you

HE DID IT TWICE THERE AND HERE.

Okay, we are living in a Dragon or Black scum world.

Tinfoil: we’re living in a Dragon AND Black scum world.

You're all over the place

You should read the game me and him just lost as town in. This is nothing

[Hu Tao]

Is there any reason why FL couldn't be a scum JOAT with a Vig shot?

Pretty sure thats illegal. Who do you think is scum

[Hu Tao]

I keep fluctuating on Hu Tao. Like I start the day thinking she's scummy, the HPE read shows scummy, but then the fuckery with the miscounted hammer has me leaning town.

I do find it interesting she's still on me as a "compromise" though, even though she's now saying I'm one of the towny ones in the POE. Lazy logic has me thinking 1 scum is currently on me, hoping I go through. I've been at e-2 for three days now, and comparatively little is being said about me or my wagon.

That last part isn't right

[Hu Tao]

I voted black so I'm not on you anymore.

I said you're the most towny before at the beginning of the day and didn't vote you when others were

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Pavowski

Jail me tonight.

I'd prefer gamma or Gera tbh

It’s not purely faith in your read, to be fair.

Jail me 100% of the time tonight.

I make it through tomorrow, or they have to block you to kill me and let’s my kill go through.

I think this is a good compromise

VOTE: Pav

i have no clue.

Can we go gamma instead

Why though, HT?

The pav is the towniest of the bunch to me I think

This is way earlier when FL wanted you and I was against it

[Hu Tao]

I think Hu is just scum here

I'll dig deeper tomorrow

I'm town

[Hu Tao]

2 more days for deadline btw

[Hu Tao]

More votes on Hu please

Sorry if you're town but I don't think you are here

[Hu Tao]

I've put a month into the read

[Hu Tao]

Joyboy was the original slot and I scumread them day 1

[Hu Tao]

I shouldn't have to write more than a sentence all the time

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: CW
THIS MEAT IS TERRIBLE! HEALTHY BUT TERRIBLE!
LETS GET IT OUT OF HERE SO WE CAN GET TO THE GOOD MEAT TOMORROW

people who actively try to pl are auto-impostor
VOTE: Joyboy

I actually agree with this. Policy elims are terrible

Glad cw is back and toning down the memes. However, they pop back in within 30 minutes of Kyouko saying cw had valid thoughts. Could just be good timing, but I'm also thinking scum chat coaching. Like, "tone it down before you get policied, go contribute next time you're mentioned"

I could see cw doing it on purpose to see who would try to ask for a policy Elim. Which is why I wouldn't hate a joyboy vote either.

We could just be town vs town.

I still think they’re a big liability for the day.

I'm thinking you could be town vs town. Which is why I think joyboy has to be scum in that case. I just don't see a scenario he's town this game. But maybe I'm tunneled idk

I can kinda see a world where Joyboy is scum, but I do think, if Joyboy is town, that’s a very low info fade that scum would want today.

I'm okay with going for another vote but I think joyboy should be vigged then at the very least.

Can we kill CW now so I don’t have to waste a potential vig kill if i have one on them?

Do you not think joyboy is basically trolling worse than cw was now? I'm fine with cw vote out with joyboy vig shot though if it comes down to it.

Here are original joyboy sus reasons

[Hu Tao]

I shouldn't have to write more than a sentence all the time

You don't have to, but when someone is asking you about your reads it would be beneficial to everyone trying to sort you if you explained yourself

I have. But let's go again. With my perspective

Flavor Leaf- confirmed town
DragonEater70 - locked town
Purplemango - Dragon says he has a meta read and lock towned him.
Pavowski - Towniest of the 4 left, based on posts I've seen
Random Nurse - No one wants, not scum with joy boy based in cw/joy boy reacts
geraintm - could be scum I guess but I've seen act this was as town
Black - last remaining. Have no reason to town read. Was my day 1 scumread so this is the preferred vote

[Hu Tao]

It makes 0 sense for Dragon to play the way he has as scum. He'd basically be playing against his win con. I'm never voting Dragon. If he's scum congrats but never happening

[Hu Tao]

Yes. The no kill makes 0 sense. It's a different situation than last game. This game it makes 0 sense to do other than put himself in the light for no reason. He never would have had to claim either.

[Hu Tao]

Have I mentioned I hate this game?

I swear on my rug, if Hu Tao is scum here...

VOTE: Black I hate to lim somebody who just repped in but I'm gonna sheep it, y'all can scumread me for it tomorrow. If this flips red it'll be worth it

Who's the other scum with HT, Black?

I'm not scum

[Hu Tao]

Black is a bit overreacting, though, especially since they just replaced in.

But I do think my Purple/Hu Tao solve is correct.

Wrong

[Hu Tao]

sorry for being annoying

[Hu Tao]

Welp. I already know how this is going to go

[Hu Tao]

Why would you vote so quickly?

[Hu Tao]

So you think it's purple and dragon?

[Hu Tao]

RN kill does lean towards scum in Hu Tao/Dragon, though

Really? I think RN kill is the obvious move for scum last night regardless of who it is

Why

[Hu Tao]

Purple busses as scum

Having his hammer on HPE be his first vote in the game is +scum to him (though only slightly because I can see him also doing it as town). Then hammering a miselim after he never did it before probably happened because Pav told him to.

So if pav is bussing then it must mean pav is the role blocker?

[Hu Tao]

So i think it's pav purple. With pav trying to set up a bus for tomorrow he's likely rber. So pav should be the vote today.

I won't vote yet but willing to go there

[Hu Tao]

I will never vote Pav against on Day 5.

If you are able to get 4 votes on Pav, this proves that scum are on the wagon based on me being conf town.

Hu Tao/Dragon/Geraint all are willing to vote Pav.

Pav is voting Purple, this would probably mean Purple is willing to vote Pav.

I believe this means that scum are always on that wagon, and yeah, it could be a bus, but i don’t see it.

I messed up voting my gut soul read on Roden recently, and ended in a gamestate that was lost.

I won’t do it here.

Lose this one on your own.

VOTE: Hu Tao

I'm getting flashbacks

[Hu Tao]

Explain how they pocketed me?

[Hu Tao]

Probably just to set up a misvote on me today