Kemusan - Game Over

[Bell]

Wow!

[Bell]

Okay FB. You can die now.

[Bell]

Might as well just do this.

[Bell]

I didn’t even do anything!
They killed themselves.

I wanted to do a slow traditional game but I was denied!

[Bell]

I have a dental appointment.
Sigh.

[Bell]

We didn’t bond in the Pt I’ve kept appropriate distance. I did listen to them when they asked me to vote Gyphx and see what happens.

[Bell]

idk i guess we have time

might as well wait a bit for LLD to post maybe

Please no.

[Bell]

Let’s just vote them out I don’t want to play with LLD in whatever sort of rage they’re going to be in. As they dunk on literally all of us.
For stuff I didn’t even do.

[Bell]

It costs me brain cells and emotional bandwidth.

[Bell]

If

she rages? Really?

[Bell]

its weird how kuribo rage doesn't phase me but LLD still triggers me. I should take the same approach to LLD that i do with Kuribo, just call the rage kayfabe and ignore it.

It’s because their language is colorful.

[Bell]

I’m town

[Bell]

And we’re in elo yay!

[Bell]

Okay now we can slow down and take our time. I’ve never lost and Elo as town and I am not fucking starting now.

[Bell]

If you fucks leave or vote anyone without me voting first I will eat you.
Four days for a hero solve of tremendous proportions.

[Bell]

Or I leave, one or the other.

[Bell]

1. HST asked me to and wanted to gauge around people’s reactions. I was pissed that I never saw SC or LLD post and I was pissed that I never got to see Skitter make reads after saying they would and I was mildly annoyed that STD didn’t give more information. Also, I was wrong on that pair so it threw me off balance.

Once RCE left I was mad and stopped thinking, I realized it and thought I should chill since people don’t think well when they’re mad, but then I realized I’d never just be very anxious if LLD came back and would never recenter if I had to try to play under these conditions and I started not to give a fuck but then I got worried because I see a lot of town that don’t give a fuck lose because they didn’t give a fuck.

Happily reality made LLD scum so I can give a fuck now.

[Bell]

Going to need to give me time for HST since I’m just going to do an in depth one and yeah, on the way to the dentist rn.

But I think there’s value in providing my mindset right at this moment.

[Bell]

For obvious reasons scum Bell never pressures FB to leave immediately.

[Bell]

History there, HST and I have hydra’d a few times before.

[Bell]

Oh, I did hallucinate that they asked me to dance.
Or Pooky didn’t update their board.
Either or.

He did ask, but for Pooky's purposes you have to ask HST. So think of it as an invitation for you to invite.

I'm townreading him, and between Spiffeh and him (and you), I feel like I have a structure I can use to evaluate other stuff. And that's a good feeling.

My one footnote is that the poker face about his read on me slipped so quickly, unless I just misunderstood his post.

Of the unpaired gents so far, I'd most like to see Spiffeh, LavorManos and STD paired.

RCE and Fireisred at the bottom. I don't know what to do with RH9.

im a lady!

why do you townread spiffeh?

Extreme mind meld last night a la the first and so far only towngame I think I've played with Spiffeh is where it started. His ISO feels so pure. Which is not a word I use to describe my reads, but it applies here.

What are you trying to accomplish in this discussion?

Nope.
Doesn’t look like they’ve ever been scum before.

I hope you remember that I have a gigawatt townread on HST.

----------------

I'm going to be around today rereading, but probably won't post much until tonight, maybe. Data acquisition last night wasn't great, but it was good.

It's irrelevant what your read of them is. Except in terms of what it says about your alignment.
I recall you taking this tact the last time I saw you posting as scum.
I wonder if you'd remember and still do that anyway. It seems like a mistake.

Then again, people say the same stuff as either alignment.

Bell, If I'm scum, then I'm anti-spewing. If I'm town, then you will know that before my read matters, and you may know enough else by then to trust I'm right about my HST read, or you may have gotten to that conclusion on your own.

I’m sorry for being an asshole.

Keep your scumread. Leave me alone, stop distracting me and let me do my thing.

Sure thing. Apologies if I’m wrong. I do take responsibility for me reads. I’m surprised you don’t know that.

I do know that. What I don't fully trust is that you'll take in the proven misread and making it a pivot point on your other reads.

Idk much about dance games but I’d like to think that scum would aim for people who aren’t volatile and leave the dance under a tiniest of pressure.

Do you see pairings that fit this?

So much mindmeld with you Spiffeh.

Why are you in the middle of my reads?

a couple of your posts felt ~convenient~.

You've half-heartedly walked your read back on me but haven't slam-dunked me. I feel like you KNOW how I'm going to flip and don't want to be

too

wrong. Just wrong enough to be able to stand aside and let others do the slam-dunking.

But why? it's day one. A gigawatt read day one on a player that is not me is probably a horrific idea. Do you have a certain tell or something that meets a high probability of accuracy? Are you alt guessing on HST and then using that data to sort?
The confidence doesn't make sense.

Did you answer this question FF?

I’m trying to emotionally process and what you’re saying. But it will be a little bit.

I know. And I've known other alts, of the main, too. For me, it's one of the easiest solid townreads on site. When not town, it's a read I waffle on forever. Sort of like I did on you in smoke-filled. One of these days I'm going to internalize that there are certain players who if I waffle, they're scum.

Was anyone not townreading Spiffeh or something

This reminds me. Can people explain why they are town reading HST?

While the quoted post truly sets her apart as a prestigious mafia player, I am not yet seeing why she's so universally townread.

It's a read based on HST's main. The humor and quirks are there as either alignment but they feel much more carefree as town. The energy tends to fade some when scum IME. HST is keeping up well with a fairly fast moving thread, and the reads and the presence of an early reaction test is also town indicative.

My one very small reservation here is that HST usually holds off stating a read on me for a while is because he starts from a place of suspicion, and watches my body of work until he's sure. I feel extremely obvious town to players who know me well, so it's not totally outside the envelope of his townplay around me specifically. It's one footnote on a townread.

Weighing.

[Bell]

oh sorry, well, it makes even more sense no? Like, yeah maybe me + spiffeh can be seen as going deep somewhat reliably, but me pocketing him, even when coached by 2-3 people is a tall order, while HST already has some of the tools required

Correct. Albeit, not pocketed.

[Bell]

You actually are lol.

[Bell]

You actually are lol.

if affinity is what you call a pocket then sure

Please read your own post, lol.

[Bell]

You had to acknowledge it first! You had to acknowledge that you were saying I was more likely to be buddied by HST than you were to succeed at buddying Spiffeh with Cabd *and* LLD coaching you!

[Bell]

In addition! In addition!
You denied that you said I was pocketed which means, which means! You made me acknowledge nothing because you said you didn’t say that!
The nerve!

Hmph.

[Bell]

I’m just having fun.

[Bell]

So what’re your plans for elo gyphx?

[Bell]

Monosyllabic.

[Bell]

I kind of speed read. So I miss stuff and fill in the blanks.

I had a similar problem with datisi, that I always wrote as “datasi” because I liked subvocalizing “dat-ah-si.”

[Bell]

How do you pronounce your name?

[Bell]

Or dat-tah-see.

I only fixed it when I think he started taking offense lol.

[Bell]

There are 116 posts in our neighborhood since someone asked.

We’ll be going over both neighborhoods when we review.

I was thinking more along the lines of sphinx, when reading your name. But I thought that wasn’t what you were going for. But it sounded cool.

[Bell]

How many posts are in your neighborhood?

[Bell]

For real?

[Bell]

Oh well.

[Bell]

Please note, I'm not done.

This is neighborhood summary.


1. First posts: I'm whining and making a stray comment that I like some of mitski's song.
HST then whines.
2. HST says they were holding back on pushing Cabd because they thought they would suicide on FF if they town read ff. Said they felt sad that they didn't defend FF from all the rock throwing they were enduring as people called them scum, alas it was all for naught. Later down the line they talk about how they mind melded with LLD because LLD said the same thing about their read.*^1.
3. I replied that I was pretty neutral on Cabd because his child bit him and his house was on vacation at the bottom of a lake. Again.
4. HST said that they had been town reading them initially and been giving them slack because of RL stuff but then their patience was reduced because Cabd seemed to intentionally be doing nothing when they were around. They stated their entire play on day 1 was based in FF town. Then they said their scum read became pretty strong after they posted about the Lavar slip because they felt that Cabd town would have consistently pressured Lavar rather than just poking them once.
5. HST felt that it was great that Cabd died, but since Cabd did it on purpose it wasn't satisfying since they weren't caught.
6. Ah. interesting, they asked what had happened in the neighborhood when Enchant left. It's a little on the nose.
7. They speculated that we were likely going to get shot.
8. I speculated that the double self-kill seemed like bad play. Because math > soft fuzzy wuzzy advantages.
9. HST says it was a good, or at least not bad, play because their entire play for the day was based on the FF read and letting them live as long as possible.
10. HST asked the age old question, if I am to die Bell, what is the point of it? What's the point of doing anything? And they came to the natural conclusion that motivates our entire species: Bragging rights (I'm joking, small beans reason to try).
11. Set up question, I forgot how long the intermission lasts, vaguely remembered they tended to be short. HST corrected me.
*1. I countered that hiding a read on a player is also a means by which you're afforded flexibility. If things don't work out you can say whatever or make up whatever you're thinking, it's trajectory hiding. Not scummy, on its own but it provides deniability and obfuscation.

[Bell]

Skitter thought it wasn't weird.
And obviously Cabd, LLD, and Enchant didn't either.

I mean, enchant's a fairy, I don't expect to understand them, but the other two do their homework.
Sort of.

[Bell]

I’m going to revisit 9.
But I’m going to continue recounting the neighborhood.

[Bell]

My 9. Not your 9.

[Bell]

12. HST states they get why Cabd left, but doesn't understand why Enchant left. Given FIR wasn't town read well. It's a fair point.
13. I replied that I don't think Enchant or Cabd gave away much, then stated that Enchant probably*2 left because someone directed them to.
14. HST is parallel posting and suspects Enchant left to deny information.
15. HST makes a a joke solve of RCE and Sircakez where a string of unfortunate incidents resulted in them pairing up.
16. I make a statement about sheeping FF.
17. I start actually giving voice to my feelings on LLD that I dare not directly voice in the thread for fear of consequences (read: LLD). I note that they set themselves up day 1 with the intent to garner influence. LLD talks about power a lot, so, while it's noted I don't and didn't think it was scummy on its own.
18. HST responds that they town read LLD for mind melding in their approach to FF, i.e., say nothing in the hopes that FF lives longer. They need a second look they say.*3.
19. HST proposes a division of labor, I'll look at LLD and they'll look at Skitter. *4. This is after they speculate on FF's final reads list, noting that they were wrong because enchant was scum.
20. HST whines about the number of posts FF has.
21. They say they have a weak town lean on Skitter so that's why they'll look at skitter.
22. Then they ask me if I've ever played with Skitter scum, I have not. They said they've played with Skitter twice both times they were town.
23. HST starts making some notes to self. They looked at their assumptions and particular points: around how far in advance (if at all) Cabd planned to kill themselves. Did Enchant let give forewarning before they left. And then they speculated that Enchant may've posted how they posted because they knew they were expendable. Based on meta, I didn't really think it was unique to scum enchant. They kind of always seemed resigned to death. Fairies live short lives.
24. HST teased me.
25. HST gets distracted by a shiny, makes an RH9 read, notes that RH9 seemed to want to pair with Ydra, but had mentioned they were okay with Ydra pairing with Enchant even though they had admitted they couldn't read enchant so it was weird they were okay with it. Says they're going to make paranoia posts and asks that I be innoculated and tolerant of their paranoid ways.
26. I lay out my issues with what I observed of LLD day 1, if enchant had planned to leave and LLD is scum then:
a. LLD had advocated for Enchant death poorly, not really explaining themselves, essentially blunting their own case then became absent only to pop in again at the last minute to say they told us so. I note that LLD positioning for influence as scum makes sense here because a large swathe of players lost influence because they were wrong about Enchant. I tend to examine the concept of fairness that people share and think that LLD would leverage that sense that LLD didn't get a turn to kill a scum read while everyone else had their shot and messed up, so it's only fair that *they* get a turn now. This is exactly what LLD did and exactly what Firebringer and Spiffeh were drawn into. I made a counter argument to the mind meld, pointing out that while it could be a mindmeld it could also just be that they didn't say anything because it didn't benefit her to say anything when your enemy is making a mistake*5.
27. I take a moment of self pity, realizing that likely if I hadn't pushed to save Enchant and had just not played at all, Enchant probably've died.

*2. Enchant is a supernatural creature, a fairy, normal rules don't always apply to them.
*3. Will check when I go through the thread if they ever followed up or checked in with LLD to get them to clarify their statement.
*4. Revisit this later.
*5. Quote that may or may not have been lifted from Napoleon.

[Bell]

1. i say i plan on dropping thoughts here cause i didn't feel so at easy in the thread at the time of intermission starting
2. i say i'm sussing RH9 / skitter / RCE / STD and townreading fireis / HST / enchant
3. Spiffeh asks me to elaborate on the skitt pair
4./5. i'm surprised and confused night is so soon
6. Spiffeh claims he was townreading enchant, bummed out about his flip
7. I say it's cool and maybe scum just wants to kill someone directly
8. I elaborate that STD was basically switching between posting styles for no apparent reason and that skitter is mostly a gut read, but also that i'm big wrong already so let's maybe be cautious, also thinking we could've died today or LLD / fire (gotta remember idk why i thought that)
9. announcing i'm taking a break from mafia

the sleepiness is coming, more coming later

2. Can you expand on 2? Did you provide any reasoning in that post or was it just a list?
3. Did you elaborate on it? You did! You did elaborate on it, neat.
4/5: Spiffeh without giving an exact time, was Gypyx posting parallel to when enchant flipped? Does their confusion about what happened seem forced or fake to you? As mentioned, It was *probably planned for Enchant to live right after Cabd if they managed to get enchant through. Posting confusion there is prime time for feigning ignorance.
8. May or may not revisit this.

[Bell]

28. I agree that their argument for RH9 scum is worth pursuing. I speculated that the difference in RH9's posting may be due to scum coaching, but also stated that it didn't seem like RH9 was being closely managed by the scum team if they were openly commenting on Enchant. Speculated that if RH9 is scum the point is probably mute because we'll be dead.
29. I considered if Gypyx/Spiffeh, FB/LLD contained no scum they might be killed instead(Second most town pairing, FB/LLD could be a mafia nightmare if neither are scum).
30. I say I think we're gunna die, HST agrees since we're widely town read.*6 *7.
31. We lived. the first thing I say after that is that if HST is scum they made a wonderful meal out of casing RH9 when they knew they were going to die but that they needed to slow down on all the town tells because they're doing it too well.
....>_>/. They responded with a death emoji.
32. HST: Speculated that we were spared because scum thought they could drag us down.
33. HST: says they dislike how Skitter is approaching us and don't agree on the angle.
34. I'm following LLD's play and stating they appear to be doing exactly what I said they'd do. I notice that how LLD is speaking with me is different than usual and wonder if that's because she's trying to manage me. It still works, imo. Even if I was immediately paranoid of them, if they had said it differently I might've dug my heels in. I posture in the neighborhood that I have no good side so LLD is wasting their time trying to stay on mine.*8.
35. HST makes that massive post they drop in the wrong thread. *9
36. HST realizes that they may be trying too hard to figure out who the scum are through trying to interpret Cabd, when figuring out who the town dance pairs are might be easier.
37: They go into who they think are likely town: Sircakez, Spiffeh, LLD.
38: HST provides a soliloquy on the nature of leadership and responsibility as a T-T pairing, given they tend to play scummy in their usual games. will they rise to the occasion? Or will they die alone, abandoned by their Gods and countrymen? Find out next time. 39: Notes that if I'm deep scum it would take more effort and paranoia spiraling than they're comfortable with so they'll just take the loss in stride. *10.

*6. Yeah, I didn't know that scum traditionally kill the IC pairing if they were paired with town. Firebringer saved me a lot of thinking by mentioning this.
*7: Revisit this, Re: Punctuation.
*8: May revisit to see if cross communication occurred.
*9: Revisit this for T-HST and S-HST.
*10: May or may not revisit. But it will be very minor if I do.

[Bell]

39. HST anticipates people will come after them as the weak link.
40. I say stay the course, I express frustration that Gypyx is not town telling, then tell HST we can try to kill the contrarians first if they're worried about scum shifting the game where the minority becomes the majority.
41. I give myself a sarcastic pat on the back for telling gypyx not to scum read us if they can't town tell. I throw a jab at HST for Gypyx calling one of their posts, icky. They don't acknowledge it.Typical. I state that after engaging with Gypyx I got nowhere.
42. I complain that LLD spent the entire time arguing about why they should be given a chance and then once that battle was won, they didn't go straight into solving but disappeared, like the point was to be given that chance instead of to actually do the solving part afterward. I softened on it though because I can relate to spending so much time defending myself that I don't really hunt.
43. HST blames me for asking Gypyx to try to do what they did with that brain dump, saying it was natural that they couldn't do it and that only an abyss starer could do so.
44. HST spends time complaining on the uncertainty of neighborhood activity and solving, stating that they do not know if FB and LLD are solving in their neighborhood or not. They're aware they're being a hypocrite and say as much *11.
45. HST says they also got nowhere with Gypyx because she just said normal things in response to them and their questions.
46. HST notes that SC and RCE disagree on which town pairs have town in them. Create a list of where people are.
47. HST says they probably aren't going to read their own large post that they wrote and try to reach a conclusion/do something with it. This was unprompted.
48: HST thinks that their massive post is outdated given that finding a town/town pair is more important.
49: HST wants to keep track of everyone's reactions. Doesn't really think people are going to come out with strong opinions given that the players in this game can be kind of wishy-washy (Lookin' at you spiffeh).*12.
50. I state my preference for FB's approach and state that my typical approach to scum hunting is POE anyway. Though by this point I've showed that in thread.
51. I get annoyed at Skitter for 2486. Pointing out that LLD's claim that they pushed Enchant hard just wasn't true from my perspective. LLD can murder people when she wants to, she knows the motions and she didn't do it. I speculate that the scum team probably had thoughts/'plans' in place for whether Enchant died or not and didn't agree that it was an either/or or that scum are incapable of having multiple contingencies at once. I point out that Cabd did not weigh in heavily on the Lavar/Enchant debate. They stepped on the scale, but only lightly and express confusion that Skitter agrees with the premise when it doesn't make sense in the first place.
52. I realize LLD was rebutting somebody's argument and say as much.
53. I asked HST if they still think the FB/LLD pairing is t/t.
54. HST says yes, but expresses some misgivings given LLDs disappearance.
55. HST complains about neighborhoods and how it conflicts with their playstyle that people are posting in them instead of in the main thread. *13.
56. I disagree, say I think that people tend to post about the same in their neighborhoods and in the thread. I state that HST can ask about people's posting activity in the neighborhood but that I want to get the answer to my question about people's 4 strongest town reads.

*11: Revisit. Mech spec. angle.
*12: Spiffeh is sometimes uncertain whether he is or is not a mouse.
*13: The irony!

[Bell]

Please note, I'm not done.

This is neighborhood summary.


1. First posts: I'm whining and making a stray comment that I like some of mitski's song.
HST then whines.
2. HST says they were holding back on pushing Cabd because they thought they would suicide on FF if they town read ff. Said they felt sad that they didn't defend FF from all the rock throwing they were enduring as people called them scum, alas it was all for naught. Later down the line they talk about how they mind melded with LLD because LLD said the same thing about their read.*^1.
3. I replied that I was pretty neutral on Cabd because his child bit him and his house was on vacation at the bottom of a lake. Again.
4. HST said that they had been town reading them initially and been giving them slack because of RL stuff but then their patience was reduced because Cabd seemed to intentionally be doing nothing when they were around. They stated their entire play on day 1 was based in FF town. Then they said their scum read became pretty strong after they posted about the Lavar slip because they felt that Cabd town would have consistently pressured Lavar rather than just poking them once.
5. HST felt that it was great that Cabd died, but since Cabd did it on purpose it wasn't satisfying since they weren't caught.
6. Ah. interesting, they asked what had happened in the neighborhood when Enchant left. It's a little on the nose.
7. They speculated that we were likely going to get shot.
8. I speculated that the double self-kill seemed like bad play. Because math > soft fuzzy wuzzy advantages.
9. HST says it was a good, or at least not bad, play because their entire play for the day was based on the FF read and letting them live as long as possible.
10. HST asked the age old question, if I am to die Bell, what is the point of it? What's the point of doing anything? And they came to the natural conclusion that motivates our entire species: Bragging rights (I'm joking, small beans reason to try).
11. Set up question, I forgot how long the intermission lasts, vaguely remembered they tended to be short. HST corrected me.
*1. I countered that hiding a read on a player is also a means by which you're afforded flexibility. If things don't work out you can say whatever or make up whatever you're thinking, it's trajectory hiding. Not scummy, on its own but it provides deniability and obfuscation.

12. HST states they get why Cabd left, but doesn't understand why Enchant left. Given FIR wasn't town read well. It's a fair point.
13. I replied that I don't think Enchant or Cabd gave away much, then stated that Enchant probably*2 left because someone directed them to.
14. HST is parallel posting and suspects Enchant left to deny information.
15. HST makes a a joke solve of RCE and Sircakez where a string of unfortunate incidents resulted in them pairing up.
16. I make a statement about sheeping FF.
17. I start actually giving voice to my feelings on LLD that I dare not directly voice in the thread for fear of consequences (read: LLD). I note that they set themselves up day 1 with the intent to garner influence. LLD talks about power a lot, so, while it's noted I don't and didn't think it was scummy on its own.
18. HST responds that they town read LLD for mind melding in their approach to FF, i.e., say nothing in the hopes that FF lives longer. They need a second look they say.*3.
19. HST proposes a division of labor, I'll look at LLD and they'll look at Skitter. *4. This is after they speculate on FF's final reads list, noting that they were wrong because enchant was scum.
20. HST whines about the number of posts FF has.
21. They say they have a weak town lean on Skitter so that's why they'll look at skitter.
22. Then they ask me if I've ever played with Skitter scum, I have not. They said they've played with Skitter twice both times they were town.
23. HST starts making some notes to self. They looked at their assumptions and particular points: around how far in advance (if at all) Cabd planned to kill themselves. Did Enchant let give forewarning before they left. And then they speculated that Enchant may've posted how they posted because they knew they were expendable. Based on meta, I didn't really think it was unique to scum enchant. They kind of always seemed resigned to death. Fairies live short lives.
24. HST teased me.
25. HST gets distracted by a shiny, makes an RH9 read, notes that RH9 seemed to want to pair with Ydra, but had mentioned they were okay with Ydra pairing with Enchant even though they had admitted they couldn't read enchant so it was weird they were okay with it. Says they're going to make paranoia posts and asks that I be innoculated and tolerant of their paranoid ways.
26. I lay out my issues with what I observed of LLD day 1, if enchant had planned to leave and LLD is scum then:
a. LLD had advocated for Enchant death poorly, not really explaining themselves, essentially blunting their own case then became absent only to pop in again at the last minute to say they told us so. I note that LLD positioning for influence as scum makes sense here because a large swathe of players lost influence because they were wrong about Enchant. I tend to examine the concept of fairness that people share and think that LLD would leverage that sense that LLD didn't get a turn to kill a scum read while everyone else had their shot and messed up, so it's only fair that *they* get a turn now. This is exactly what LLD did and exactly what Firebringer and Spiffeh were drawn into. I made a counter argument to the mind meld, pointing out that while it could be a mindmeld it could also just be that they didn't say anything because it didn't benefit her to say anything when your enemy is making a mistake*5.
27. I take a moment of self pity, realizing that likely if I hadn't pushed to save Enchant and had just not played at all, Enchant probably've died.

*2. Enchant is a supernatural creature, a fairy, normal rules don't always apply to them.
*3. Will check when I go through the thread if they ever followed up or checked in with LLD to get them to clarify their statement.
*4. Revisit this later.
*5. Quote that may or may not have been lifted from Napoleon.

28. I agree that their argument for RH9 scum is worth pursuing. I speculated that the difference in RH9's posting may be due to scum coaching, but also stated that it didn't seem like RH9 was being closely managed by the scum team if they were openly commenting on Enchant. Speculated that if RH9 is scum the point is probably mute because we'll be dead.
29. I considered if Gypyx/Spiffeh, FB/LLD contained no scum they might be killed instead(Second most town pairing, FB/LLD could be a mafia nightmare if neither are scum).
30. I say I think we're gunna die, HST agrees since we're widely town read.*6 *7.
31. We lived. the first thing I say after that is that if HST is scum they made a wonderful meal out of casing RH9 when they knew they were going to die but that they needed to slow down on all the town tells because they're doing it too well.
....>_>/. They responded with a death emoji.
32. HST: Speculated that we were spared because scum thought they could drag us down.
33. HST: says they dislike how Skitter is approaching us and don't agree on the angle.
34. I'm following LLD's play and stating they appear to be doing exactly what I said they'd do. I notice that how LLD is speaking with me is different than usual and wonder if that's because she's trying to manage me. It still works, imo. Even if I was immediately paranoid of them, if they had said it differently I might've dug my heels in. I posture in the neighborhood that I have no good side so LLD is wasting their time trying to stay on mine.*8.
35. HST makes that massive post they drop in the wrong thread. *9
36. HST realizes that they may be trying too hard to figure out who the scum are through trying to interpret Cabd, when figuring out who the town dance pairs are might be easier.
37: They go into who they think are likely town: Sircakez, Spiffeh, LLD.
38: HST provides a soliloquy on the nature of leadership and responsibility as a T-T pairing, given they tend to play scummy in their usual games. will they rise to the occasion? Or will they die alone, abandoned by their Gods and countrymen? Find out next time. 39: Notes that if I'm deep scum it would take more effort and paranoia spiraling than they're comfortable with so they'll just take the loss in stride. *10.

*6. Yeah, I didn't know that scum traditionally kill the IC pairing if they were paired with town. Firebringer saved me a lot of thinking by mentioning this.
*7: Revisit this, Re: Punctuation.
*8: May revisit to see if cross communication occurred.
*9: Revisit this for T-HST and S-HST.
*10: May or may not revisit. But it will be very minor if I do.

39. HST anticipates people will come after them as the weak link.
40. I say stay the course, I express frustration that Gypyx is not town telling, then tell HST we can try to kill the contrarians first if they're worried about scum shifting the game where the minority becomes the majority.
41. I give myself a sarcastic pat on the back for telling gypyx not to scum read us if they can't town tell. I throw a jab at HST for Gypyx calling one of their posts, icky. They don't acknowledge it.Typical. I state that after engaging with Gypyx I got nowhere.
42. I complain that LLD spent the entire time arguing about why they should be given a chance and then once that battle was won, they didn't go straight into solving but disappeared, like the point was to be given that chance instead of to actually do the solving part afterward. I softened on it though because I can relate to spending so much time defending myself that I don't really hunt.
43. HST blames me for asking Gypyx to try to do what they did with that brain dump, saying it was natural that they couldn't do it and that only an abyss starer could do so.
44. HST spends time complaining on the uncertainty of neighborhood activity and solving, stating that they do not know if FB and LLD are solving in their neighborhood or not. They're aware they're being a hypocrite and say as much *11.
45. HST says they also got nowhere with Gypyx because she just said normal things in response to them and their questions.
46. HST notes that SC and RCE disagree on which town pairs have town in them. Create a list of where people are.
47. HST says they probably aren't going to read their own large post that they wrote and try to reach a conclusion/do something with it. This was unprompted.
48: HST thinks that their massive post is outdated given that finding a town/town pair is more important.
49: HST wants to keep track of everyone's reactions. Doesn't really think people are going to come out with strong opinions given that the players in this game can be kind of wishy-washy (Lookin' at you spiffeh).*12.
50. I state my preference for FB's approach and state that my typical approach to scum hunting is POE anyway. Though by this point I've showed that in thread.
51. I get annoyed at Skitter for 2486. Pointing out that LLD's claim that they pushed Enchant hard just wasn't true from my perspective. LLD can murder people when she wants to, she knows the motions and she didn't do it. I speculate that the scum team probably had thoughts/'plans' in place for whether Enchant died or not and didn't agree that it was an either/or or that scum are incapable of having multiple contingencies at once. I point out that Cabd did not weigh in heavily on the Lavar/Enchant debate. They stepped on the scale, but only lightly and express confusion that Skitter agrees with the premise when it doesn't make sense in the first place.
52. I realize LLD was rebutting somebody's argument and say as much.
53. I asked HST if they still think the FB/LLD pairing is t/t.
54. HST says yes, but expresses some misgivings given LLDs disappearance.
55. HST complains about neighborhoods and how it conflicts with their playstyle that people are posting in them instead of in the main thread. *13.
56. I disagree, say I think that people tend to post about the same in their neighborhoods and in the thread. I state that HST can ask about people's posting activity in the neighborhood but that I want to get the answer to my question about people's 4 strongest town reads.

*11: Revisit. Mech spec. angle.
*12: Spiffeh is sometimes uncertain whether he is or is not a mouse.
*13: The irony!

57. HST asks me if I'd be interested in mixing it up. *14.
58. I say after my question about the TRs is answered, sure.
59. HST proposes we both naked vote Gypyx and say nothing as a reaction test.
60. I let HST know that my reads were changing slightly after reviewing the game.
61. I whine about Cakez not posting enough and leaving instead of quickly giving their 4 strongest town reads.
62. HST notes the deadline and asks if I'd still be up to vote gypyx without explanation.
63. HST asks that I vote first because they think it will be more effective if people don't know they suggested it.
64. I decide to go to bed because I tend to have difficulty not responding to posts. Instead of watching the fall out.
65. HST says to observe, they say that when they're satisfied they'll unvote first.
66. They let me know that if I don't like what's going on with the reaction test that I can abort it whenever.
STD leaves and we all have our votes reset. So I start posting again.
67. I complain that I would have preferred that SC and LLD had posted first before STD left.

That's that!

*14: I should revisit this, but I don't know what to make of it. HST said they'd explain, so. I suppose I'll wait for them to tell me and then decide from there.

[Bell]

FYI, work.
When I get back I’ll make an argument for HST scum and HST town.

Tomorrow I’ll make one for gypyx town and Gypyx scum.

….i don’t really think spiffeh is scum, I wanna do my due dilligence, but I kinda don’t even know where to start with that one.
If someone has a lead or suspicion about Spiffeh, lmk.

[Bell]

Who do you two think the last scum is.

I’ll probably be asking you both questions, albeit you can also try to just respond to my town/scum case for you when I make it and tell me how much my reading comprehension sucks.

[Bell]

Yeah sure, I could be scum here.

That is technically true. Uh, from your perspective.
Or maybe not if you’re scum I suppose you know the possibility of me being scum here is zero.

[Bell]

Yes you are the other part of Both.
You don’t have to answer my questions if you don’t want. I’m not entirely sure how much difference it would make at this point.

Is there some reason you said you would be here in 3 hours?

[Bell]

I mean, I don’t want you not to think. This isn’t the Bell show. You should try to find the last scum, you know, for fun if you’re town or try to fool people if you’re scum here if you enjoy that sort of thing.

I just don’t want you to vote yet.

[Bell]

So basically you’re saying that there isn’t much meaning or value in this moment for you?

[Bell]

will do my due diligence around spiffeh tho

Thanks.

[Bell]

You seemed to care about the pace of the game and voted me when I was acting scummy for trying to speed things along after the second death.

[Bell]

Uh, in terms of not enough stuff to latch unto, I’m not sure what you latch to, but there are…posts that people have made.
A few of them.

[Bell]

You think there’s decent odds I’m scum?

[Bell]

I see.
The sircakez method.
If you ignore the forest, the traps, implements of death and trail of blood, was there ever really evidence of a murderer in the forest in the first place?

[Bell]

I see, and my actions surrounding the mysterious deaths of RCE and STD led you to believe that there’s decent odds I dun it.

[Bell]

I get it, it’s definitely scummy to rush things.
*stares at the pile of corpses*
Or at least it favors the scum win con.

*looks to the dead dog and Fire bird*
Some of the time.

[Bell]

Let me walk you through this if you’re town, be patient with me please.

I was playing in a standard fashion and not taking any undue haste nor did I encourage others for undue haste.

Until, STD and RCE left and then I pushed for FB to kill themselves before LLD returned.

This benefits scum me because if LLD had come back they might have outted me as the last scum in their amateurish way.

[Bell]

You as a concerned town citizen advocated for LLD to come back first so that they could reveal all of their plots and secrets, gathering plenty of evidence to reveal the last scum.

[Bell]

I think you did a good job. I skimmed it, but I think my reasons are slightly different.

So it’s worth not reading again yet, because I am lazy and will steal your thoughts in place of my own. I’ll post in about 4 hours ish.

Don’t wait up on my account. Go look at the mysterious world of Gypyx.

[Bell]

HST scum: Refrained from defending FF, they largely took the same position as LLD to avoid saying anything. They were right, but because they had their reasons, they didn't need to engage the thread as much or put themselves in conflict with other players. Best of both worlds for scum them. Asked what happened in the neighborhood after enchant left feigning surprise that the thread was suddenly closed after they flipped. They insisted that Cabd's play was good because it derailed their whole internal strategy around FF, woops have to start over again! HST town bins LLD for a single mind meld for way too long, hoping that LLD comes back and starts towning it up. They never do, but oh well! You can't just change positions on that, they'll say something generic about how LLD was going down in their reads because they aren't posting.

Which yes. They should be going down in your reads if they aren't posting.
They suggest a division of labor, deciding on their own that I should engage LLD while they engage skitter, this is lower risk for HST. I am not an LLD specialist and I'm unsure if I've played more with LLD than they have. They have two town games with Skitter so the division doesn't really have a sense of town motivation to it. Makes an RH9 read, knowing that, hey, they're ahead already in town's books but they need to get even more ahead because they'll take a dip when we survive to the next day.

I've hydra'd with HST and they don't talk to me the way they did in my neighborhood as they do when we hydra'd together, there is always a performance in the neighborhood that is simply absent from our hydra games together. Usually HST is more jaded, cynical, and mercurial even in a hydra PT when they know my alignment for certain. They never fully trusted me, but they displayed that distrust through performance and a disinclination to engage or conflict with me. They did not truly challenge or disagree with my reads, they would simply dodge or not respond to them. Their reads largely progressed along their own axis and were largely static.

It's possible that how LLD interacted with me was done with HST communicating what I was saying to LLD. Though, on the otherhand, it's pretty strange that LLD decided to go through with the same plan even though I pretty much had said it.

They stated they had been town reading Skitter, but reversed and hadn't provided a rationale for Skitter town. Might as well me vague on it and save time on the specifics for their scum interpretation of it, since that's where they were going to go next.

Their reaction test and how they sorted me is far too credulous, I said sure let's do it, then did it. That was it. I did nothing more. It wasn't significant. It's entirely possible that they need to take a certain position and are coming up with the rationale afterward to explain it.

They spend time complaining about how neighborhoods are really messing with their vibe, man, in lieu of talking about what they can control because it's easier to complain about the set up than to hunt and they would totally be fixated on this fact as town. But I tend to think that this sort of repeated engagement with a mechanic of the game is focused more when you're scum trying to convince yourself of your own narrative than because it's actually flabbergasting them. Likewise, they never proactively ask people how they're doing in the neighborhood. They state this is because they're usually passive and love to watch people and how they react. But they're proactive in creating reaction tests and plans to sort others, but they didn't use that proactivity to dig into people's neighborhoods.

The role PM town confirmation, I already made a large post about and noted that, this check is largely consequence free for HST. There aren't any scenarios where HST risks themselves by asking for a set up question.
I can flub the answer and get myself killed or I can answer it well and town read them for asking it and get town read by others for asking it.

[Bell]

To note, I have hesitation on killing HST because FF was like, "They're totally town Bell and don't you fucking dare change your fucking mind about this"

I may be paraphrasing slightly.

and I'm like,

Mea culpa Seer FF, I cannot help it, it's in my nature to paranoia spiral.

[Bell]

That said, I haven't really engaged with Gypyx's play this game, so it's kind of like, looking at a single player and deducing they must be scum because the other player doesn't exist.

To note: HST as scum checks in with Cabd and LLD but does their own thing.
Gypyx as scum is coached by the two, I believe her approach to me is largely obsequious with bursts of rebellion that almost feels kind of harmless, it's like spunk without the edge, or like, a commercial about rebellion through buying our shoes. It's sanitized.

[Bell]

HST town: Everything is simple and straight forward. Everything they've done in this game is outwardly townie with subtle things that might not be so townie, but they can be explained by indolence(HECK YEAH THIS IS MY FAVORITE SCUM READ) or idiosyncrasy.

Except for the reaction test,
that sort of seemed like a waste of time, but literally, what do I know about scum hunting?(seriously what do I know about it?)

[Bell]

i feel dead.

[Bell]

I reviewed the first 20 posts from Gypyx.
No notes.
Looks fine.

So like, do you guys wanna vote me or

I joking.
I try more.

[Bell]

…. :/

[Bell]

Really not seeing much. Maybe she was puppeted but her posting didn’t really change between day 1 and day 2.

[Bell]

HST however had a ball to carry and they showed up for it.

[Bell]

I so proud.
Proud of HST, you got over your scum block.
All it took was the entire scum team investing in you inexplicably.

Oh wait, no that makes sense.
I mean they were’t going to have enchant carry were they.

[Bell]

I sad at the discrepancy in effort.
Life not fair.

[Bell]

Seriously though I’m going to read gypyx and not just leave suddenly.

However if possible scum HST would like me to stop, they can take me home.

I’m just exhausted. Not much sleep, school work, work, work. Play work. Mafia work.

Workworkworkwork.

[Bell]

I’m out of gas is the issue here.
:/

[Bell]

By the way I'm glad that some of y'all think I'm someone who's able to carry as scum.

[Bell]

No, actually I do need to look.

Sigh. This isn't as clear as I think.

[Bell]

Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my rag-time boy
Send me a kiss my sire, setting my heart on fire
If you refuse me you’re gonna lose me then you’ll be left alone oh baby
Dance with me and tell me I’m your own

HST posted this in our discord. Before the game. Which is why I knew who it was.
That or it was an awful coincidence.

[Bell]

Not the words, just the video.

[Bell]

I'm all ears.

I was just crying into my notes PT about my severe lack of reads a little while ago

Also, I knew and Bell would dance the minute I saw you /in

If you hear them, you might end up being even more depressed. Do you proceed?

Yes.

I have a guttown read on LLD and a townlean on Cabd for some unorthodox reason.

explain yourself on cabd NOW

Man, I'm never going to quite understand who is scum in this photo.

Is it that HST was town leaning both scum initially before hiding the read.

Or the fact Gypyx jumped down their throat? I initially thought it looked informed, but I'm not really sure.
What caused such an intense reaction from you gypyx?

[Bell]

I don't have much of a read on Enchant but I will say that of everyone his entrance seemed the most desperate to lock in a pairing early, which is kind of how I expected scum to approach this game. I haven't really sensed any desperation from him recently though, and I'd expect scum to become more and more anxious to pair as the options start being limited.

I also kind of agree with whoever said that RCE not really trying to lock in a pair for himself doesn't quite align with him being scum.

I'm wondering if this is just something I just shouldn't take into consideration because I don't feel like thinking too hard about it

Good.

[Bell]

For me the spiffeh thing has less to do with how i think he'd behave as scum, and more to do with some of his recent posting, namely:

- kinda don't understand his gypyx trajectory, or how he became that confident in town-her
- cabd declaring them a high confidence tvt pair made me go ... huh?
- ffery townread almost feels white-knight-y
-

Gypyx's carefree posting here contradicts how I expect her to behave as scum in this playerlist based entirely on my one time playing with her as her scumbuddy in Tenet. Yes I recognize it's a very low sample size, but in Tenet my recollection is that she was scared to even post as scum and needed someone from our team (Cabd, LLD, etc.) to review and edit her posts. Her initial posts in this game struck me as town because they seemed genuine and worry-free, which isn't something I've seen from her before.

I'd also expect her to try to get on Cabd's good side ASAP, not scum read him from jump

(unless she and Cabd were scum together, I guess)

and risk drawing Cabd's focus immediately, someone who has had an intimate look at her scum game previously.

I have a couple of other comments regarding Gypyx, but I'm not looking to reveal these at this point.

As for ffery, she's just hit all the notes I expect her to hit as town. I feel we've shared a lot of similar reads/noticed the same things and given she is someone I work well with, that was encouraging to me. I don't think she has much reason to begin vocally suspecting me as scum when I am one of the few actively town reading her.

[Bell]

Eh, the longer the day goes on for Gypyx the worse their position as scum would get too.

[Bell]

When gyphx was asking what was going on when enchant peaced out, did it seem fake to you Spiffeh?

[Bell]

1. i say i plan on dropping thoughts here cause i didn't feel so at easy in the thread at the time of intermission starting
2. i say i'm sussing RH9 / skitter / RCE / STD and townreading fireis / HST / enchant
3. Spiffeh asks me to elaborate on the skitt pair

4./5. i'm surprised and confused night is so soon

6. Spiffeh claims he was townreading enchant, bummed out about his flip
7. I say it's cool and maybe scum just wants to kill someone directly
8. I elaborate that STD was basically switching between posting styles for no apparent reason and that skitter is mostly a gut read, but also that i'm big wrong already so let's maybe be cautious, also thinking we could've died today or LLD / fire (gotta remember idk why i thought that)
9. announcing i'm taking a break from mafia

the sleepiness is coming, more coming later

[Bell]

i mean, the only slot i'm really focused about sorting is you right now, if you feel like it's a relevant question feel free to ask Bell tho

I meant you may want to ask Bell if this is outside of my scum range, as he has pretty extensive experience playing with scum!me

oh yeah

@bell?

Not really extensive, but it’s unlikely, they kind of lack proactivity as scum and their thoughts tend more toward the safe positions than otherwise.

[Bell]

And again, I am still open to reevaluate if anyone has some sort of smoking gun on Gypyz or something

I welcome it all!

I think the argument for Gypyx scum is they just didn’t really do much.

[Bell]

I have a paper to finish. But afterward I’ll just kind of vent about Gypyx and how I have a real hard time reading them.

[Bell]

HST’s post scares me.

[Bell]

I mean from a scum/playstate perspective. Feel better. HST.

[Bell]

Oh no Spiffeh I am not leaving. You’re voting me and then I’ll vote myself.

[Bell]

I requested an extension for HST, since illness is kind of ruining our shot here. They have this associative case that doesn’t reach a conclusion.

[Bell]

in 1543 you mention wanting to use the neighborhood to sort Gypyx, but I see you did not do that,
why?

[Bell]

I guess your whole take down of Lavar could have been enchant siding.
You'd have been the only active scum to do more than poke it with a 15 foot pole tho.

[Bell]

#1679: I guess Cabd scum knows they suck here so there's not much reason not to call them out for it. Just refusing to say anything about it and saying you were doing it for the greater good is more suspicious to me (HST).

[Bell]

That sounds meaner than intended

I just think if your goal is to hero-solve before intermission like you're claiming, you'd want to actually have some input on who should be left behind today?

Really driving that home here and it's kind of from that slowly building angle of in-credulousness I find townie.

[Bell]

Yeah, I think Gypyx/HST had the worse Cabd takes. Both weird in their own ways.

[Bell]

Dead line can’t be messed with.
Shoot.

[Bell]

Gyphx has a point, LLD definitely taking a line with Spiffeh that doesn’t sound like a S-S interaction.

[Bell]

Didn’t expect to be doing a Spiffeh tour. But here we are.

[Bell]

It would be very unsatisfying if I had read half the remaining player’s in game posts before making a decision.

So we are gunna cut the deadline semi close.

Please be patient.

[Bell]

15ish hours to closing time.

[Bell]

If cabd’s plan is to die, I’m not really sure why HST would go the no comment route, gypyx pouncing on people that tr Cabd makes slightly more sense to me.

Albeit LLD said the same thing. But LLD is the scums. But LLD is going to flip down the line one way or another so what would be the point

Ah. It is weird that the remaining players that can be scum were both town reading doomed scum LLD.

[Bell]

Gypyx did you ever express suspicion on LLD in the thread or neighborhood?

[Bell]

Gypyx did you ever express suspicion on LLD in the thread or neighborhood?

Not really, i mean, i was trying to keep in mind LLD is very good at scum and probably would be able to fool me but it's hard to stay convinced when i just wasn't seeing anything

Can you write this again trying to be a bit more clear please?

[Bell]

Leave the dance

Won’t be surprised if gypyx is scum.
Will be mildly surprised if spiffeh is.

Gg.

I apologize for not being able to finish.

I suppose the only AI things I really thought about is that HST seemed more willing to wait on LLD,

In a different world we’d be allowed an extension because HST didn’t really have an opportunity to reach a solution, due to illness. I would have been *really*
Interested in hearing what they thought.

[Bell]

Apologies FF.
My play was bad this game.

[Bell]

Oh and they said gosh in my neighborhood.
And nobody says gosh as town.

[Bell]

Oh man.

[Bell]

I didn’t blow it.

[Bell]

*fist bumps Bell*

*fist bump*

[Bell]

Ffery I wish you didn't get exploded on so early, I feel like we were syncing up again!

We were!

I felt like it might have gone better if I didn't rush out some half-assed reads.

Thanks for modding, Pooky. I loved the music you picked for Cabd and me so much!

Great job final four!

Also, sorry, Town, for tilting right out of the solar system.

I get a single vote and I’m like:

[Bell]

Lmao at Ydra/Rh9 PT.

[Bell]

So, *ahem*
I want to clarify a thing.

Pairing me with HST was a mistake.
Because I’ve solved for them in elo before under an alt named Knell. I replaced into that game.

I intentionally kept a poker face and tried to hide which way I was leaning. But I was pretty much leaning HST the second I realized that if Cabd had faith in a player to endgame it wasn’t going to be gypyx. It didn’t make sense.

If anything I was biased toward scum reading hsg, because I’ve played against scum them more than I’ve played with town them and I remember our hydra games well enough to know that they don’t try to impress me when they’re town and think/know I’m town.

Also, FF mentioned that HST can’t usually hold a poker face as scum, which I weighed when thinking about some of their townier posts.

I could’ve gone for gypyx though, I just couldn’t really put together a cohesive process for scum them. Her easy ish going personality stopped me from trying to frustration yeet them and she managed to avoid the worst of my buddying paranoia by, not really buddying me, but being able to hold a conversation.

It was a weird match up.

[Bell]

Wasn’t sure HST could post as well as they did as scum, since they seemed to get mafia block or something. During my time away from mafia.
I mostly remember the good scum HST games.
So even though I underestimated them, I didn’t have first hand knowledge or witnessing of HST falling apart as scum.

FF definitely had more experience and that did weigh. But I’m pretty selfish and won’t really defer to another in an elo situation.

[Bell]

I like dance game and I liked the end game, marred as it was by house floods, enchant not being a team player, biting incidents and the plague.

The scum team was cursed is what I’m saying.

[Bell]

Thank you for modding Pooky.
I look forward to reading the scum pt.

[Bell]

Smh, I don’t listen to other people’s opinions. No matter how dumb mine are.

[Bell]

@LLD that is very fair.
I think we’ve talked about this before, but if you’d like to discuss it again anywhere lmk.