Mini 2332: A Mid-scummer Nights Dream II | GG

[Sunflower]

it's very clean

[Sunflower]

well, it doesn't look like it is on the surface. but the hooks are there underneath and that's what's really interesting to me

[Sunflower]

hi prism

should i revisit?

[Sunflower]

im not even sure that it's really is evidence that makes her scum or would be convincing to anyone at all tbh but it feels... idk, tantalizing. like i potentially got a peek behind the curtain

i can try to explain in a bit

[Sunflower]

ok i took some time to refresh myself on prism's scumplay and read through some notes pts and i think i did generally have the right impression of how she likes to approach things

i still don't really think i have a case exactly but i will share my thought process at least

[Sunflower]

sigh nevermind i don't think i was right my bad

[Sunflower]

eh maybe there's something actually

[Sunflower]

i feel like whenever i post like this people hate me for it. sorry lmao. ill get to the point

[Sunflower]

the loyal viewers at home are NOT gonna like that this is how i ended up spending my time after their complaints about my gimli dive on season 1

but you know what viewers

we got invited on this show, not you. sit down

[Sunflower]

i miss jupiter :<

[Sunflower]

i miss jupiter :<

awwww didnt know you cared that much

[Sunflower]

omg hi

[Sunflower]

yeah nevermind again sigh i don't think it's prism. or at least if it is, this isn't how she gets caught

the short version of what i was going to say is:

- prism is a very strategy and long-term planning heavy scum player, which is a style that i try to do less successfully, and so i am aware of some of the potential pitfalls of this style. especially when it comes to planning out read progressions on players well in advance

- it felt like there was some potential that she was dropping some crumbs of thought process that felt a little too intentionally placed, as if they were meant to be picked up again later -- and more importantly, they were

- the point that initially sparked my attention was in 571 where she townread catgirls but dropped a little line of "unless Ravens is scum, but we won't worry about that yet" and now hey she's scumreading Ravens and that has opened her up to be allowed to scumread catgirls. that in combination with her comment about cutting out every word that felt excessive just made me doubt that she really would have slipped that conditional in there unless she was already aware of how she was planning to progress her read on the slot

- the dragon read also felt like it followed a very neat trajectory while also having that trajectory fairly telegraphed early on, and i think in general the approach of "scumread player who can later become obvtown early on" is just a pattern that i have seen time and time again from strong scum players


but i think on closer analysis this doesn't really hold up as much as i thought it might. tracking through the read progressions there's several that dip and fluctuate in a way that doesn't feel like it's following a clear planned story arc, and instead seem more naturally based on new evaluations of the game. there are a couple of what feel like breadcrumbs of future thought progressions, but not enough to conclusively say it's a pattern, and they're plausible enough that they would show up as town despite my initial feeling about them

and although i got slightly excited about the possibility here, i think that it still holds for me that particularly in the second half of the game so far, she's felt more like what i expect her town approach to be

there is a part of me that still believes in the possibility that i caught a glimpse of something correct here but i think it's more productive to continue what i was originally doing before i got distracted and reread focusing on how people played around aureal

[Sunflower]

i think that regardless i would very much like to hear the more detailed explanation of prism's catgirls read

[Sunflower]

alright yeah i think gimli's town sorry gimli

the play around aureal doesn't fit at all with the model i was working with of what scum!gimli would want to be doing here

and also just reading d1 again with fresh eyes meh i think it is just kinda like town gimli

[Sunflower]

would like to hear from people who townread gimli slot but scumread catgirls if they have any thoughts about 1692

[Sunflower]

i think that page 27 is where things will start to get very interesting regarding aureal given klick's 649 and the scum nk on klick

a few people had kind of been dancing around the edge of a scumread on aureal (gimli continually has her just at the edge of his poe and not quite in voting range but i think that the casing of her felt convincing enough that it doesn't feel partnered to me)

i think seeing how they respond to a ramping up of a push on aureal will be really telling

however i am falling asleep so i will look at that tomorrow

[Sunflower]

the timing of kyoko dropping the hu tao case in 650 and specifically focusing on hu tao coming right after klick starts hard pushing aureal is certainly compelling but gut instinct is that it's more likely to be the people who jumped on top of it that are scum

[Sunflower]

Game could just be Ydra + Aureal + Dan and wolf presence is non-existent. It would also explain a lot of things.

This is lazy thinking to go after the least active players only. Usually there are mafia in the players who are posting and going after only lurkers is the wrong move.

With that said, I will take a look at these slots.

Ydrasse I have in my mind that she as mafia likes to fit in socially, this results in her making posts that look "towny" on day 1, and she tends to not be suspected until the game progresses and there are less players to consider. In this game I am not really seeing that. 537 feels like a town post from her as it is combative, if only a little. The rest of their iso does not feel like Ydrasse as mafia according to the model I have in my mind.

Aureal made a post scrutinizing the setup in 296 and I believe this was at a time when there was quite a bit of confusion regarding the setup. If you are cynical you could say this is mechanical information vs looking at alignments. I think it leans towny to be figuring out the setup. They then follow it up with several posts where they appear to be trying to determine alignments. Also despite their post count they have posted quite a bit in each post. They have posted substantially more than Ydrasse and ActionDan, at the very least, so they shouldn't be grouped together as a lurker in my opinion (and again, that's not a great indicator of alignment, especially given how this day has gone done IMO.)

ActionDan I don't have any kind of meta read on. I've played with them before but I don't remember what they were like. In this game they have their one effort post in 200 where they go back and give commentary on the thread, they bring up some suspicion on Dragon, and then respond to questions about that for a bit. They say their read needs time to build. And then they haven't posted anything else, really. In this 100-posts phase They came in and unvoted, then voted for themself, and then unvoted again - over a span of six hours, but they have nothing to say apparently. Need more posts, I am not townreading here right now, but no strong reason to scumread either.

With all this talk about Hu Tao I don't really care if people move votes there as long as it's between Aureal, Dan, and Hu but Dan and Hu seem like the right move.

lol @ Klicks post for a lot of reasons but I don't think me or my hydra partner want to address it this phase.

This is lazy thinking to go after the least active players only. Usually there are mafia in the players who are posting and going after only lurkers is the wrong move.

What you're doing is lazy thinking. Just because they're not as active doesn't mean they can't all have red role pms : ) Especially when none of the reasons they're being scumread is due to activity.

this set of posts is interesting together as a response to the thread state at the time and i think slightly unlikely to be both scum with aureal going for the lightly townread and pull her out of the low content slot poe approach? seems very possible that one of them is though

[Sunflower]

i guess in 655 dunn kind of townleans most of the low content slots actually

and then they don't post at all for the rest of the day phase while not voting any main wagon

that is possibly less agenda'd than i thought it might be

[Sunflower]

klick, welcome to my locktowns.

I have re-read AD's only content post with attention now and agree he is probably a townie. There are a few good hints of it, once you get over his initial spiteful responses to everybody. first of all the ydrasse townread (also in #229), which I doubt is worded like that if he is scum. second of all the 'this seals prism towniness to me' comment, which I think is just a genuine townie-finds-another-townie moment where AD is excited about towny posting (after seeing so many scummy things he disliked by me, kiri and DE). His opinions on dreams are quite solid and I think they all come from a towny mindset, especially the part where he advises against global effect-looking dreams. we should've listened to AD! sheep people did look like global effects.

So I agree with you, klick. on AD. I really don't think its prism. Maybe it can be catgirl, maybe aureal, but I sure hope its hu tao regardless. and I think kyoko absolutely dunked on scum with her post there.

so we have a catgirl/aureal/hu tao/Von Payne POE, except you are townreading Von Payne. I want you to walk me through it or change your mind, otherwise black will endgame you all.

I think its hu tao and von payne and one of catgirl or aureal after considering your leans and reviewing what I feel should be reviewed. I don't think I can decide on catgirl or aureal being scum or town in this gameday.

this is all townies:
me
klick
kyoko
DE
sunflower
AD
ravens
prism
and if we're lucky, ydra.

might rescind my gimli clear sorry again gimli

[Sunflower]

the later push on aureal is still good though

i think that if he were going for the route of having aureal in his poe but pushing elsewhere, then he probably can stay fairly consistent with that instead of pushing hu tao as town in 661. it just comes across as uninformed to me on top of bussing being a relatively unlikely choice there

[Sunflower]

Gim's, is the 'whole lotta nothing' scummy from me? Or are you tunneled so much on Black that you will just ignore me all together? I am trying to navigate this day phase when I basically can only post now when on my laptop(I hate switching off of my main when phone posting since my phone hates to remember passwords to this damn site lol)......and when I do post at this time I don't get the engagement I am looking for, which I basically am begging for lol.....which is how I normally get myself into a game and form reads.

All that being said, I agree with you on Hu, after thinking about her some more this feels much less like the town version of her.

I also want more out of Aureal, since she exposes herself as town the more she posts, but she seems to have made like no impression on me, I could go that direction as well.

I do agree with you on Klick as well, probably the first time in awhile I am town reading Klick this early......or even at all lol

And ftr, I do lean town on you Gim's.......there is this bit of 'town leader' vibe that you are putting out that I remember from a game a few moon's ago

So again, lonely late night Drew is here if you want to keep me company

-Drew

@drew if you're around sometime im interested in talking w you a bit about this

[Sunflower]

prism being busy and uninvolved during this is relatively unincriminating and neutral to me. i think if she's scum then she likely knew aureal wasn't going through so she didn't need to position around it which probably points towards possible partners of kyoko or catgirls, or gimli from the other direction. think it's fairly unlikely she would be paired with ravens/ydra/AD. von payne possible i guess

actiondan doesn't really weigh in at all and pushes gimli and our slot in 671. he mentions hu tao as possible scum in a noncommittal way and says he needs to revisit aureal. as talked about earlier, i think the case against us is questionable although possibly town, but the gimli analysis feels really busy-work-y. i think as another possible candidate for the lim here, as scum his main focus would be on trying to get enough content out there that he won't get limmed, and try to avoid tying himself too much to anyone else in case he goes down. this is pretty much what happened. as town i think there might be more incentive to actually put more effort into sorting between the leading vote candidates, knowing that people are trying to consolidate

ydra is leery of voting hu tao, doesn't weigh in on aureal 615, and pushes our slot instead. i think ydra is relatively towny otherwise but i also think this is basically exactly what scum!ydra would do in this position (i think it almost directly parallels an event in the MU game we played) which does make me a little hesitant

[Sunflower]

Gim's, is the 'whole lotta nothing' scummy from me? Or are you tunneled so much on Black that you will just ignore me all together? I am trying to navigate this day phase when I basically can only post now when on my laptop(I hate switching off of my main when phone posting since my phone hates to remember passwords to this damn site lol)......and when I do post at this time I don't get the engagement I am looking for, which I basically am begging for lol.....which is how I normally get myself into a game and form reads.

All that being said, I agree with you on Hu, after thinking about her some more this feels much less like the town version of her.

I also want more out of Aureal, since she exposes herself as town the more she posts, but she seems to have made like no impression on me, I could go that direction as well.

I do agree with you on Klick as well, probably the first time in awhile I am town reading Klick this early......or even at all lol

And ftr, I do lean town on you Gim's.......there is this bit of 'town leader' vibe that you are putting out that I remember from a game a few moon's ago

So again, lonely late night Drew is here if you want to keep me company

-Drew

@drew if you're around sometime im interested in talking w you a bit about this

Of course, anything for our returning guests

oh hi

1) can you elaborate more on your thought process behind where you said you agree with gimli on hu tao? which part of what he said about hu tao did you agree with?

2) do you remember if you read 661 prior to this post, and if you had any thoughts on it?

3) was it you or black who did the triple hu tao vote in 677? i am like 80% sure it was black, but did she talk to you about her reasoning for doing that?

[Sunflower]

i guess there's not any point in framing 2) in that way, i know you did read it since you referenced it

the question is more specifically, did his comment about thinking klick was right and hu tao is town make any impact on you? and if klick's own thoughts made an impact?

[Sunflower]

i thought it was strange that you said you were agreeing with gimli on hu tao despite him coming around to hu tao being town right before but it does make a little more sense if you were just using his poe as a reference point to share your own read rather than specifically agreeing with a point he made

[Sunflower]

i would like to hear from black what made her especially want hu tao limmed at that point then

[Sunflower]

Daily reminder that there are 2 Wolves on Hu Tao. If it wasn't Hu Tao, it was Aureal. Gimli/Enchant town. Von Payne town. I'm town. Kyoko just objectively makes the most sense to be a wolf in this game. Everything they're doing screams wolf. They're the elimination tomorrow btw.

why is von payne town to you

[Sunflower]

You are likely the last mafia member

positionally that's just what makes sense.
sorry not sorry

i think if im following your perspective then silver ravens or actiondan would fit as well, if it's just a positional read. is there more to the read?

[Sunflower]

because I say so

why do you think anyone will listen to you without explanation

[Sunflower]

i don't believe that you would clear them here

[Sunflower]

Because I have the best reads and this phase of the game is what I'm good at.

do you think people are going to take for granted that you're town then?

[Sunflower]

i don't believe that you would clear them here

you wanna fight me?

yea let's go

[Sunflower]

i don't know what that means this fight sucks

[Sunflower]

I don't have to exert energy or try super hard to win this game.
My reads are rock solid.
You can kill me but you won't because you and Kyoko need me as an elimination.

im not scum i just wanna talk to you

[Sunflower]

I don't have to exert energy or try super hard to win this game.
My reads are rock solid.
You can kill me but you won't because you and Kyoko need me as an elimination.

im not scum i just wanna talk to you

I don't wanna talk to you. I want your head

that seems unproductive but ok

[Sunflower]

i don't know why "feel like" is enough for you for prism

[Sunflower]

like you are wrong or scum so

i don't believe your reads as town are infallible so i don't think you're guaranteed scum

i think acting 100% confident while also not actually locking in your reads and leaving room with "probably" and "feels like" actually seems more like stubborn town bc if you're scum then you don't have any reason to leave that vulnerability which can be pried open

but i think that if you are town then the only way people can actually find that is if you talk about those feels likes and probablys because i know you're wrong on us which means you're wrongly clearing someone else

[Sunflower]

I want to remind you that Frozen Angel, aka, Kyoko, only tryhards and pulls out all of the stops when her team, or herself, is in danger.
What do you think that Hu Tao case was?
If she didn't do something, well you have a cw on Sunflower, you have people willing to go to Aureal whenever they want. There could have realistically been a wolf elimination during that day.

i just read that part of the game very thoroughly and i agree that the timing of it looks quite bad but i think your slots play right afterwards looks more like what a wolf would do taking advantage of a town tunnel than kyoko being scum herself

but as far as overall play i think ive seen more things from you that i townread

so i want to resolve this

[Sunflower]

like you are wrong or scum so

i don't believe your reads as town are infallible so i don't think you're guaranteed scum

i think acting 100% confident while also not actually locking in your reads and leaving room with "probably" and "feels like" actually seems more like stubborn town bc if you're scum then you don't have any reason to leave that vulnerability which can be pried open

but i think that if you are town then the only way people can actually find that is if you talk about those feels likes and probablys because i know you're wrong on us which means you're wrongly clearing someone else

I have the game solved lol

your solve is wrong

[Sunflower]

what do you think my goal would be behind having this conversation with you if i were wolf

[Sunflower]

i have met you before, obviously it would not do that

[Sunflower]

alright thanks for the talk it was helpful

[Sunflower]

kyoko is frozen angel yes

second half of page 26 into page 27 is recommended reading

[Sunflower]

i would say that up until recently it's been both

initially it was role related and also just the way she was being playful about it felt very town!ydra to me

and since then it also has felt to me like she has been unagenda'd and just not doing things that would accomplish scum goals. i thought her brief foray into pushing our slot along with the re-evaluation and backing off made sense

although in my reread as i mentioned in 1732 i did have some doubts because her play pattern around hu tao did remind me of how i think she can sometimes like to play as scum. and there is the possibility that she's playing to slip through the cracks but i don't think i really believe that it's more likely, just possible. i am just a little nervous because i did misread her in the game i referenced and her play is not dissimilar (i haven't actually fact checked this i do not want to look at that game rn)

so i would say at this point the read is leaning more heavily on the role side of things and im more hesitant about play than i used to be although still generally feeling that it's more towny than not

[Sunflower]

i think most people probably have the same idea but i also don't really see how that would be helpful in any way to do here

[Sunflower]

My impression of wolf!Ydra from Swinger's ball is that she doesn't like playing wolf, and that we both awaited for our deaths patiently.
I've never seen her play wolf, so I think she TMI'd her way through the day phase because she wasn't pressured to do anything. It would also be very similar to what she would probably think as town as well (not that I would know! My most notable town!Ydra impression was from the undertale game where eventually I think she just made herself obviously town, at least, I don't remember fos'ing her by the end of the game).
A wolf pretending to be something they're not, and getting away with it is cheesy and it's not something I would want to lose to. I have objectively no reason to TR this slot if we're basing this on play.

i don't think your impression is exactly correct although i think it's often been true lately

she has at times very much enjoyed playing wolf and i think probably on average from what ive seen enjoys it more than playing town? she's been kinda down on playing town sometimes lately too

[Sunflower]

Inaction is action and can accomplish wolf goals.
The best wolves will only respond to situations when the ball is in their court.

Speculate on their role openly please. If they're shot within these last 2 hours, that is good for village.

i think most people probably have the same idea but i also don't really see how that would be helpful in any way to do here

Allow me to be Drew here for a moment

But do you think there is anything to them adamantly not wanting to be a part of this hood?

i think unrelated to alignment, so probably not

[Sunflower]

i think most people probably have the same idea but i also don't really see how that would be helpful in any way to do here

it is the only way this conversation progresses

i think there's a lot of things we can talk about without role speculation and i appreciate hearing the thoughts you've given

[Sunflower]

if you're town, and you have some strong compelling reason not to kill Ydra and Ydra does just end up being town, because that would be just what makes sense, then you can kill ravens and dan after killing Kyoko and ya you would probably just win.

that's where im leaning rn

[Sunflower]

Top of my head I don't remember if she gave reasoning per se, but I didn't disagree with it(

we haven't talked a whole bunch of strategy

, but I will check the chat to see if she talked about this vote brb)

wasn't gonna comment on it but since night is almost over i will say this phrasing choice has been kinda bugging me and i will feel silly later if i don't at least say something

[Sunflower]

strategy is just an odd way of putting it

[Sunflower]

@drew, i think there are things that you could call strategy but since that was specifically about a relatively emotion/read driven point where black was just emphasizing that she really wanted hu tao limmed, i don't feel like the label applies in that context

i think it's not really a big point for me, it just was stuck on my brain

[Sunflower]

it's moonrise

[Sunflower]

hey, it's jupiter here!!!! sorry for not being in thread for a while- got burnt out and stuff i've been doing irl has honestly just been slaughtering me like i've been drawn and quartered or something. will have more time now that it's spring break, might reread at some point. need to get my head screwed back on because tbh I haven't been paying attention to thread for like over a week
also someone said that allegedly fire wasnt talking to me idk who that person was but you're wrong we talk every day and i cherish the conversations we have!

[Sunflower]

the last thing i remember is arguing with silver ravens tbh when was that

[Sunflower]

ITS BEEN FIVE DAYS?? WHAT

[Sunflower]

A bold knight in shining armor came to fight me. Rescue me. Something like that.

btw this feels like a reference to slay the princess but it's probably not

[Sunflower]

That is a really, really, REALLY big waterfall. I bet I could meditate under it!, said maya fey, 2001

[Sunflower]

ok so according to fire moonrise ends soon but i think waterfall is townsided

[Sunflower]

i will not accept censorship by the deadline as an option. EVER

[Sunflower]

oh wait pagetop ill explain it in a bit

[Sunflower]

stealing jupiter's thunder here cause he didn't explain it and i think it like has potential even if it's maybe a stretch

but apparently (idk ace attorney lore don't sue me if this is wrong) meditating under waterfalls is something the character maya fey likes doing, and maya fey is a medium, and there's like the thing about talk to the dead powers being a possibility although we already had one

but yea we're gonna vote for it (along with disco ball and tower)

[Sunflower]

well that wasn't really what i was going for, more that maya fey is an individual who could do no wrong and is pure of heart and therefore it must be townsided but i guess that works too

[Sunflower]

i feel like every time i exit the von payne show and re-enter the normal thread i doubt every conclusion that i came to during the night

[Sunflower]

this game makes my head hurt ill try again later

[Sunflower]

i felt good about the realtime with alisae and i kind of really want to trust that instinct

[Sunflower]

I scum read you mainly for the aureal bit on night 1 before the guilty was dropped.

can you talk about why you think this is something they'd be unlikely to do as town?

[Sunflower]

OUWGAHWGH PAGETYOP WILL CATCH UP LATER

[Sunflower]

ok um well based on what i've seen catgirls is likely town may reread in full eventually.von payne if you guys die do we still get to post in thread at night. right

[Sunflower]

[Sunflower]

Why is catgirl likely town. And how is that question important about the neighborhood?

idk vibes, and it's not really that relevant but i would like to be able to scream at night

[Sunflower]

ughh im tired

i think kyoko's arguments feel the most forced to me here

feels like latching on to "bad" or illogical play and framing it as scummy and just trying to drive it into the ground, repeatedly questioning and hammering home the same point. it's sort of the same issue that i have had with her initial scumread on von payne. the specific focus on the single post about aureal in n1 as like the primary basis for a scumread while kind of just dismissing any possible town explanations is kind of ick. it just feels like one of those things that scum latch onto as "this looks bad why does nobody else see it" when i think scum are actually less likely to make such a surface level bad looking post considering they are informed of the alignments involved. like i don't see how that post helps accomplish scum goals in any way for black. if they want to add aureal they can just... progress to a townread on day 2 in a normal manner? there is literally no scum benefit to doing a little awkward attention drawing self-interaction about it in night 1

it feels like there's more emphasis being placed on making points heard and winning debates than on really digging in deeply to solve the game and consider both sides and take in all data. the selective viewing of things feels more likely to be coming from an intentional place than a tunneled place

like i generally agree with those who have said that the play from von payne is extraordinarily unnecessary as a wolf. i think they could have explained easily without the role theorizing, and im not sure why they're any more likely to have done that as scum compared to as town?

it is true that there are weird things that are hard to reconcile about how their progression today happened. you kind of have to squint at it to follow the thought process. but i also think there have just been too many points in the game where it has felt to me like black specifically has just not been working from a scum agenda and has been really independent-minded. and i just don't really think the reasons that are being hard pushed as scum indicative... actually... are?

alisae and maria i think have both had fairly towny reactions to events here

[Sunflower]

I have conflicting feelings about sunflower. on one hand They are the only one solving in public neighborhoods, yet they are stuck to a single read and barely talk about anything else in game. I wonder what they think about von and current game state today

for ravens, they are just not in game almost at all and I dont vomit reads that I dont have.

If by any chance 2% I was wrong on you, I think its one of them, but I very so slightly scumlean both of them

how is having an almost null read so wierd for you? Whats your current reads on every single slot that is in game?

pretty unmotivated from game and i'm currently trying to reread and reforumlate stuff but tbh the early pages are a serious drag to get through

[Sunflower]

Also i have been evaluating them. Thats why i was questinjng why they chose the people they did fo neighborhood. I was slowly warming up to the idea of them just being town with very complicated or meh motives with them and still that qureal call out felt super fake and out of place to me. I pressired that question and this came out of it.

I am sure they are scum. You say what would scum gain from saying this. Its not like tgey volunteered the info out of nowhere. Their choice of catgirl was already wierd even before the thory and i was pushing it. They acted as there was a hidden motive and this was made to explain that.

You say why i cant see a town doing it. What kind of question is that? Why would a town fake having a theory to justify their neighborhood?

Before the theory contradictions the action of choosing catgirl could have been explaine by a town having a meh logic. But now it cant be. They are just scum

i don't think they faked a theory if they're town, i just think they didn't explain it very clearly or think about it very hard, and it's pretty visible that the two heads have different mindsets about it and also different reads which affected how they answered. if you track through what they say i don't see much inconsistency

your pressure about them recruiting catgirls not making sense is another point where it feels like you're being very selective with what you look at and are choosing to ignore the things that don't support your point. you say their recruitment of catgirls doesn't make sense but you are not really taking the next step of natural inquiry into "well, okay, who should they recruit instead?"

- us, they townread but already recruited
- ydra, said she wouldn't be a good choice for the hood
- you, they suspect
- silver ravens, they don't townread and also are pretty absent
- enchant uhhh would be an interesting choice
- actiondan, i don't think they townread
- prism, mixed reads between the heads but she said she'd be busy and unavailable. initially you said she asked for it but she did not, see 1641

basically idk who you think would have been a dramatically better choice for them? they have no strong townreads that want to be in the hood or aren't already in there, and then there's several players that are closer to nullish or they want to sort, and catgirls is probably one of the more likely to be talkative among them

and even if you say they should be grilling a scumread, if they scumread you then giving you a platform during the night is probably like actively anti-town

kind of relatedly i actually think the fact that catgirls choose didn't use the hood much when they had the opportunity to is more likely to come from town from them even if at the time i found it somewhat frustrating

[Sunflower]

all that said i do think drew being like "oh yeah?? well who's our buddy??" is bizarre when kyoko has been like very clear on that

[Sunflower]

sunflower, how can you see my push on von forced and alisaes push on me normal?

my push couldnt have been more elaborate and percise and based on actual detailed contradiction hunt of actions and claims. This couldn't have been even more baseless and snarky. They drop these one liners to discredit me and my attempts, shade me and my direction and rally people up without even stating a single reason for their reads.

this is kind of what i was saying earlier though

i think you're conflating "argumentatively correct" with "is town"

i think for example alisae's initial read on the von payne situation starting from 2064 as making no sense but then coming back around fairly quickly to thinking it doesn't happen if they're a wolf feels like a town evaluating and weighing both sides genuinely

i think alisae's push on you would look fairly similar as either alignment and it's not really factoring in to my read on the slot

detailed and precise doesn't necessarily mean town, i think you can do that well as both alignments. to me what i think is the difference is what you choose to ignore and whether your pushing is coming from a place of agenda or if it's coming from genuinely trying to look at the full picture and solve the game from a perspective of "is this something that is more likely for a wolf to do or for town to do?"

[Sunflower]

My main reason for scum reading them before them going full obv scum in those three pages, was the bit where black said they want aureal on night 2 neighborized. while they were porttrayiong having aureal as their second town read, there was no need to make such announcement if they didnt have any ulterior motive/didnt think they need to set the game state and tone for it

The whole bit they had about town reading aureal, the read they made and that part mentioning it was scummy.

i still don't think there is a reason to do it as scum though

like what specifically is the ulterior motive

[Sunflower]

hmm wait a minute

[Sunflower]

oh nvm misread something

[Sunflower]

I do not believe:

- that they thought it in first place. it was just them developing a "hidden risen" for having catgirl neighborized as I questioned what was its purpose. the theory makes no sense in first place neighter design wise, nor even semantical wise. a fucking mass public neighborizer jail keeper?
- that they didnt think of asking mod for clarifying their own role if this was a true suspicioun
- that they thought to get catgirl if they thought it has protective aspect.
- that they thought to get their first town reads sunflower, suggest second townread aureal and then prism and catgirl their town leans in it if they thought it will block them
- that this was a hydra thought and they really put any thought in such theory and possible targets for it together

plus they put out that protective part later out as people started questioning the ridiculousness of the role block part and the target choice for that alongside me, to make their targets make more sense.

how can not one see how that story got adopted in three pages to get where it got? completely out of hands

this in addition of that aureal public neighborhood call in night 1 which is a fucking scum tell and I dont know why no one else but me sees it

please vote von.

like read these. how any of these can make sense as a town? how can you believe that it was a real thought process what they posted?

yes ive read them

1 and 2) if it's so ridiculous of a thought for town to have then it's equally as ridiculous of a thought for scum to have. i think it's fairly clear that either way they thought it seemed possible, i don't see how that points to alignment

3 and 4) if they're not sure whether it might have protective or roleblocking aspect and it's just a theory that they're slightly factoring in to their choices (which is what they've said) then im not sure why this is an issue. there's some inconsistencies in the way they explain it but i think that mostly it comes from different heads responding and having different ideas/reads

5) it does seem like they did not put a lot of thought into it or talk to each other that much about it. that is true lol. i think that is something that's possible to come from town though

like idk i think these are not really the points that are worth arguing for me bc i read them as town for other reasons and so i am probably more generous in being able to see how these things could come from town. and if you scumread them for other reasons then you will see it as obvious signs that they're scum

thats why to me the more important point is the other reasons because i think that it's fairly understandable that if you are town you would be seeing things in this way

[Sunflower]

idk maybe im dumb and they should be obvious but i don't really see major contradictions that aren't explained by

1) the two heads having differing perspectives on things

2) them not being exactly sure whether they think their role would be protective or role blocking or neither and it more just being a vague theory

[Sunflower]

actiondan I also think is town cause of the way they reacted to being pushed day 1 and their general read based - present and anlytic posts.

can you elaborate on this more btw

[Sunflower]

I dont get why you think them going for their highest town read if they assume its a blocking role makes it fine. If they thought its a jailkeep they should have gone for their highest town reads No matter if they are willing for it or not. The actions are contradicting regardless of the theory you choose.

its not black and white. you're acting like it's impossible for someone to think there's both the possibility of it being a protective and the possibility of it being a jailkeep, and not being sure which it is. not knowing isnt a contradiction

[Sunflower]

idk im wavering

i see what you're saying

i feel like i don't have anyone that i really trust to be town to talk to in this game and i think its always really hard for me to feel stable without that, i am too influenceable

i thought playing as hydra would help and it did at first but jupiter has been busy lately so he isn't really up to date on things rn

ydra help

[Sunflower]

i think it could still be useful to share whatever your own thoughts are

[Sunflower]

pagetoppppp

[Sunflower]

jupiter has been busy lately so he isn't really up to date on things rn

its bc im busy. heh. dating ur mom

[Sunflower]

sorry though

[Sunflower]

I don't think I'm ever gonna stop Alisae from what they're doing so I think right now I am just supposed to sit on the sidelines and watch how this day plays out strange as it is.

soooo real btw

[Sunflower]

Jupiter do you have any thoughts on me vs. Kirigiri?

i've read the thread but it's one of those things where you like, you pick up a book and read the entire thing but it's notlike you know what's going on really. so i haven't been paying attention to the specifics, just that the gist of it is that you guys didn't realize hidden role was bastard (tbh I didn't either), kirigiri thinks that's weird and pushes you, and then like the past ten pages have been a free-for-all
i'd bet one buck that this whole thing is tvt but i need that dollar so honestly i'm really not sure on it. i think kirigiri is most likely scum out of everyone but her rage and frustration here seems very real and genuine and it's hard for me to think that scum is this good at faking emotions.
honestly i think scum lies elsewhere

also what are inventor roles. i think someone claimed that but idr who, is anyone willing to explain

[Sunflower]

KIRIGIRI CLAIMED INVENTOR? WHAT

[Sunflower]

how does that work. do you get to make up items and use them
that seems cool

[Sunflower]

why is inventor more likely a scum role?

[Sunflower]

i want a toy car i would make it go vroom

[Sunflower]

i want a toy car i would make it go vroom

I think there is no better case for Kyo as scum then this right here

She didn't give Jupiter a toy car

based

[Sunflower]

i think continuing to argue is incredibly fucking unproductive and the best course of action is to just not, tbh
honestly where'd the rest of the thread go lmao it's just the four of us

[Sunflower]

im not sure what that means

[Sunflower]

hope this fixes the vibes (gif by @mikripkm on twitter)

[Sunflower]

That's a Maria post

Is this Dunn or Gif?

What do you make of the events of the day? Apologies if you did comment, was at work for most of my posting

This is Dunn

Right now I am thinking you could be scum due to having a mismatch between what you are saying and thinking. You told Catgirl Chipotle that you had already explained things but I think what you said matches their interpretation while you think you said something else.

So in this scenario you are not being genuine with your thoughts.

this feels forced

[Sunflower]

idk maybe im dumb and they should be obvious but i don't really see major contradictions that aren't explained by

1) the two heads having differing perspectives on things

2) them not being exactly sure whether they think their role would be protective or role blocking or neither and it more just being a vague theory

They would have to have one head thinking it was a roleblock, and the other head thinking it was a protective, and for both heads to agree to target the same person. That seems like a huge disconnect, and not really realistic.

i don't really think so at all? again this is black and white thinking that they had to have either 100% thought it was protective or 100% thought it was roleblock

they were both just ideas and that is stated pretty clearly from the beginning i think

[Sunflower]

hi jupiter here its3am but I’ve skimmed a bit and silver ravens is scum. Will look into partners after but the way they approach the aurela is scummy. i think Dan is townier from that and ravens hopping onto that seems like trying to get as much towncred cuz aureals clearly already getting limmed
Dan town because people genrally thought it was klick (i thought it was filming at the time) pointing out its aureal and forcing a lim on her is just like. if they’re partnered what’s the point, i skimmed dragons iso and i didn’t even notice that bit, they’re just exposing partner and setting their team at a disadavnthe.
and bc Dan pointed it out and made it prerry clear that it was aureal silver ravens gains most towncred imo from agreeing with Dan and bussing straight off the bat, I think it’s scum hre

[Sunflower]

OHOH WAAIT

[Sunflower]

I think that the waythey pushed me ion the “slip” was rlly bad cuz they haven’t nrought that read her today. Like idk the fact that it wasn’t a slip aside it’s super weird that this is informstion thta’d otherwise vconfirm someone to be scum but this isn’t something they’ve talked about like at all like idk if i were them and i caught a slip I’d push it really hard but i guess since thread didn’t think it was a slip they didn’t think it wa worthewhile

[Sunflower]

Im fuckimg sleeoy gn

[Sunflower]

Hi Jupiter can you consider going into posting jail ty

no let him cook

[Sunflower]

here i can translate, i speak fluent sleepy jupiter

1st post:

Greetings, my dear friends. It is a pleasure to have your company at so late an hour. If you don't mind, lend me your ear for a moment. I do believe that the gentlemen collectively known as Silver Ravens are highly suspicious in their treatment of recently departed mafia member Aureal. Why, you ask? Allow me to explain. ActionDan is towny because he was the one to point out Dragon's soft at a time when most people thought he hid behind Klick, including myself. Once that soft is pointed out, scum will know Aureal is dead, and will want to be among the first to jump on the push for maximum towncred. Ravens here casually mentioning that they were quick to follow Dan makes it feel like they want people to give them that towncred. I believe this points to them being scum. Thank you for listening and for your time. I hope you take this into consideration.

2nd post:

I must add an addendum, please hold on for a moment. I feel I may have realized something of interest, upon which I will expound shortly.

3rd post:

In addition to the prior point, I find their direction recently opportunistic and lacking in consistency. They pushed me quite doggedly for what they were calling a slip, and seemed to have the perspective that they caught scum with it. However, they haven't cared about that push at all today, which makes it feel like they dropped it once it didn't gain traction, rather than it being a real read they believed in.

4th post:

Im fuckimg sleeoy gn

[Sunflower]

i am gonna be like really honest and you will probably not like this if you are actually town im sorry

but i think if you flip town it wouldn't change my opinion on von payne very much

i don't really think that's where i would jump to next in that world

i would definitely give it some heavy consideration but i don't think it's like a guarantee

[Sunflower]

What was the "slip" and where did they push it? I think i missed that interaction

sequence started with 1407, ravens pushed on it in 1422

[Sunflower]

anyway im fuckimg sleeoy gn

[Sunflower]

catgirls seem more confident in us having decided our vote than i am

i guess it is pretty unlikely i end up wanting von here but i keep rereading things anyway

idk decisions are hard

[Sunflower]

btw the reason why FA is posting like this is because she thinks it'll lead people to believe that she's a self-righteous townie or some bullshit

Yep, exactly. She's had like 20-30 posts just repeating herself

this post did give me like a sudden wave of clarity due to neuron connections being made to the way a certain flavorful piece of plant matter plays scum

and like if i mentally frame things that way then yeah i guess that helps take away some of my hesitations to vote

[Sunflower]

here i can translate, i speak fluent sleepy jupiter

1st post:

Greetings, my dear friends. It is a pleasure to have your company at so late an hour. If you don't mind, lend me your ear for a moment. I do believe that the gentlemen collectively known as Silver Ravens are highly suspicious in their treatment of recently departed mafia member Aureal. Why, you ask? Allow me to explain. ActionDan is towny because he was the one to point out Dragon's soft at a time when most people thought he hid behind Klick, including myself. Once that soft is pointed out, scum will know Aureal is dead, and will want to be among the first to jump on the push for maximum towncred. Ravens here casually mentioning that they were quick to follow Dan makes it feel like they want people to give them that towncred. I believe this points to them being scum. Thank you for listening and for your time. I hope you take this into consideration.

2nd post:

I must add an addendum, please hold on for a moment. I feel I may have realized something of interest, upon which I will expound shortly.

3rd post:

In addition to the prior point, I find their direction recently opportunistic and lacking in consistency. They pushed me quite doggedly for what they were calling a slip, and seemed to have the perspective that they caught scum with it. However, they haven't cared about that push at all today, which makes it feel like they dropped it once it didn't gain traction, rather than it being a real read they believed in.

4th post:

Im fuckimg sleeoy gn

LMAOOOOO

[Sunflower]

Hi Jupiter can you consider going into posting jail ty

Btw, no.
What about those posts made you so annoyed?

[Sunflower]

there's some scum players out there who are really fond of the approach of just dominating thread with posts and repeatedly spamming the same point over and over and self-quoting and drowning everyone else out and disregarding any counterpoints. it somehow works a surprising amount of the time because usually you only need to get 1 or 2 people to be browbeaten by it and back off, even if everyone else is against you

your comment made me like suddenly recognize that pattern as something that kyoko's posting feels somewhat similar to and it was a moment of like, oh. i think i see this for what it is now

[Sunflower]

Hi Jupiter can you consider going into posting jail ty

Btw, no.
What about those posts made you so annoyed?

Every Jupiter post annoys me

No one loves me in this cold hard world

[Sunflower]

VOTE: Silver Ravens

[Sunflower]

oops pressed enter early

[Sunflower]

fires probably gonna yell at me for this later but eh

[Sunflower]

inb4 someone yells at me for voting the only person i'm sure at

[Sunflower]

I really don't like this post by Jupiter where it doesn't even seem like he's considering Kirigiri as an Aureal/Silver Ravens partner

whats this mean

[Sunflower]

xOH

[Sunflower]

i forgotthere were three scum. no one fucking look atme no one fuckign look at me im embarrassed

[Sunflower]

bruh i had a whole THEROY about how silver ravens was the other scum hiding behind tvt von payne and kirigiri im gonna cry

[Sunflower]

literally undergoing the five stages ofgrief

[Sunflower]

finally found this gif. visual representation of how i feel playing this game

[Sunflower]

hi jupiter here its3am but I’ve skimmed a bit and silver ravens is scum. Will look into partners after

but the way they approach the aurela is scummy. i think Dan is townier from that and ravens hopping onto that seems like trying to get as much towncred cuz aureals clearly already getting limmed
Dan town because people genrally thought it was klick (i thought it was filming at the time) pointing out its aureal and forcing a lim on her is just like. if they’re partnered what’s the point, i skimmed dragons iso and i didn’t even notice that bit, they’re just exposing partner and setting their team at a disadavnthe.
and bc Dan pointed it out and made it prerry clear that it was aureal silver ravens gains most towncred imo from agreeing with Dan and bussing straight off the bat, I think it’s scum hre

i forgotthere were three scum. no one fucking look atme no one fuckign look at me im embarrassed

This doesn't make sense? You knew there were three scum when you wrote the top post

yes but i forgot after

[Sunflower]

you mentioned partners n i got confused because i had forgotten there were more than one scum left in the game

[Sunflower]

i feel like we're running in cirlces here can we please stop talking about this because i feel like this is a slippery slope into having to embarass myself even more about having forgotten

[Sunflower]

also ur right I wasnt considering kirigiri as a partner at the time of that post lol, idk what you want me to say about that one

[Sunflower]

I think if Kirigiri flips scum I need to seriously re-evaluate my Sunflower read

I think in general they have felt pretty hedgy with this whole Von/Kiri debacle

i don't get this, explain your thought process here

be more specific about where ive been hedgy and how that would benefit me as scum

i feel like ive been pretty clear how ive been reading things

[Sunflower]

can you go into detail with your read on kiri

i've always generally townread kyoko in the past but it isn't a slot that i've been paying much attention to. i'm gonna be honest i tuned out most of this 1v1. i think this 1v1 is incredibly blown up and it's been giving me bad vibes so while i have been reading the posts it's not like i've been absorbing any information. but from what i've seen i think kyoko is most likely scum between the two of you. fire has been leaning towards kyoko and has been msging me stuff about it but i generally have no idea what tf he's talking about. a lot of the in-depth shit is really just going in out ear n out the other so im just trusting fire on this one
id still prever to vote on silver ravens like is no one noticing this ? just me???? i have much stronger feeling son that one but no one really cars about that one so its like. siigh.

[Sunflower]

i've always generally townread kyoko in the past but it isn't a slot that i've been paying much attention to.

Also this ↑ doesn't really match with this ↓

i think kirigiri is most likely scum out of everyone

bad phrasing, kirigiri most likely out of [von payne catgirls kirigiri] lmaoo

[Sunflower]

I think Jupiter voting outside of the 1v1 is probably +partner equity with Kiri. If Kiri were town they could easily just get on her wagon

i literally scumread silver ravens more than i scumread you or kirigiri

[Sunflower]

And this is all over the place, as I pointed out at the time Jupiter posted it:

why cant i be all over the place...

[Sunflower]

pagetop

[Sunflower]

I think if Kirigiri flips scum I need to seriously re-evaluate my Sunflower read

I think in general they have felt pretty hedgy with this whole Von/Kiri debacle

i don't get this, explain your thought process here

be more specific about where ive been hedgy and how that would benefit me as scum

i feel like ive been pretty clear how ive been reading things

I think you have tried to maintain a stance that my slot is town but you've woven in a lot of comments that seem fence-sitty

To me it kinda feels like theatre with Kirigiri the way you have engaged with her slot a bunch, and you seem to be on the Von!town train yet extremely hesitant to vote for her

Here are the comments that gave me the hedgy vibes


2180 directly following 2179

I read 2116 and it feels like you have put a lot of thought into my slot and there is a sense of conviction throughout this post. You leave the door open near the end but generally it seems like you've made up my mind about me here, and if not you seem pretty close to getting there. I don't think this matches your overall stance of being unsure where to go in the 1v1

----------

Then there's this:

idk im wavering

i see what you're saying

i feel like i don't have anyone that i really trust to be town to talk to in this game and i think its always really hard for me to feel stable without that, i am too influenceable

i thought playing as hydra would help and it did at first but jupiter has been busy lately so he isn't really up to date on things rn

ydra help

----------

And this is all over the place, as I pointed out at the time Jupiter posted it:

Jupiter do you have any thoughts on me vs. Kirigiri?

i've read the thread but it's one of those things where you like, you pick up a book and read the entire thing but it's notlike you know what's going on really. so i haven't been paying attention to the specifics, just that the gist of it is that you guys didn't realize hidden role was bastard (tbh I didn't either), kirigiri thinks that's weird and pushes you, and then like the past ten pages have been a free-for-all
i'd bet one buck that this whole thing is tvt but i need that dollar so honestly i'm really not sure on it. i think kirigiri is most likely scum out of everyone but her rage and frustration here seems very real and genuine and it's hard for me to think that scum is this good at faking emotions.
honestly i think scum lies elsewhere

also what are inventor roles. i think someone claimed that but idr who, is anyone willing to explain

----------

This also feels like you're giving yourself an out:

i am gonna be like really honest and you will probably not like this if you are actually town im sorry

but i think if you flip town it wouldn't change my opinion on von payne very much

i don't really think that's where i would jump to next in that world

i would definitely give it some heavy consideration but i don't think it's like a guarantee

----------

This:

catgirls seem more confident in us having decided our vote than i am

i guess it is pretty unlikely i end up wanting von here but i keep rereading things anyway

idk decisions are hard

----------

And then there's this, which makes me think you would be close to voting Kiri here, yet nothing

there's some scum players out there who are really fond of the approach of just dominating thread with posts and repeatedly spamming the same point over and over and self-quoting and drowning everyone else out and disregarding any counterpoints. it somehow works a surprising amount of the time because usually you only need to get 1 or 2 people to be browbeaten by it and back off, even if everyone else is against you

your comment made me like suddenly recognize that pattern as something that kyoko's posting feels somewhat similar to and it was a moment of like, oh. i think i see this for what it is now

i have to go soon so not gonna be able to respond that in depth but

i know you have mostly played with scum me and haven't seen town me very much so maybe you don't really know how hard it is for me to actually place votes down in situations like this but i am just like the kind of person who always wants to see more information and keep rereading and feeling like if i do that then somehow i will feel better about making a choice, even if im leaning heavily in one direction already

the part about "giving an out" doesn't really make sense bc that is basically me saying i am going to vote kyoko and i think von payne is more likely town regardless of her flip

you are correct that i almost voted kyoko after the final post that you quoted. i typed the vote out a few times and then deleted it. the main reason i didn't is that i reasoned to myself that i wanted to hear more from AD and ydra and GIF but honestly i think that was kind of just an excuse to myself to continue procrastinating on hitting the scary vote button

if i were scum here i think that being noncommittal here is like the worst possible play in every universe and so it's kind of wild that you think that would be something i would intentionally do. with literally any possible combination of alignments between you/kyoko it would benefit me more as scum to be decisive

[Sunflower]

because literally nobody here knows or cares about my towngame so there would be no point to it. i don't play scum to imitate my towngame unless absolutely necessary because that's just suboptimal play

i asked how i had been hedgy bc i think ive been pretty clear on my reads. i have only really been noncommittal when it comes to being willing to actually place a vote and that i think is a different thing than what you originally implied

felt like you were saying that i was leaving room for myself to vote you instead of kyoko which is a) pretty clearly not true i think, nothing you quoted shows that, and b) extremely not beneficial to me as scum to take that route so it made no sense to me that you would take it as a reason to scumread

if your point is actually just that i haven't voted yet and that i have been like still evaluating and considering then okay you are correct lol. why is that something you think i wouldn't be doing as town

[Sunflower]

I think Jupiter voting outside of the 1v1 is probably +partner equity with Kiri. If Kiri were town they could easily just get on her wagon

would youmind explaining this? i'm gonna be honestly i genuinely don't think this is a move i make as scum. why do you think i'd do that?

[Sunflower]

I find it hard to believe that they are being truthful about their stance on Kyoko and thinking about partners.

i literally said i didnt

[Sunflower]

1121 so i can see what posts these are

[Sunflower]

this is self-destructive behavior if wolf.
They need sunflower to vote with them on Kyoko. Why would they tell this to Sunflower? It simply just does not make sense.

i think black would probably know that her suspecting me isn't going to make me any more likely to vote her

which makes it a relatively safe place for her to look for a partner, which was like a task assigned to her that she's supposed to be completing, compared to any of actiondan/ydra/enchant. there's also ravens as an option but suspecting them likely locks in their vote, and pushing us instead of them actually made them back off a bit. plus if von payne is scum one of those may be their partner anyway

this was a line of thought that i was pondering when i first read her push. i think it's plausible but not like especially likely. i do think it's pretty reasonable that she would suspect me here as town

kyoko response to it in 2458 does feel pretty bad to me though. i would expect her to be considering similar lines of thought to what i had about where scum!black would politically want to look for a second scum, and the light encouragement of it is weird

[Sunflower]

I am liking this line of push from von on sunflower

UNVOTE: Von Payne

I think that Sunflower looks pretty suspect in the past few pages. They seem disingenuous to me, I find it hard to believe that they are being truthful about their stance on Kyoko and thinking about partners. And Von Payne was the one to point it out so perhaps some consideration is in order

DUUUDE

HOW DO PEOPLE NOT SEE WHATS GOING ON
AM I THE ONLY ONE IN THE THREAD WITH EYEBALLS

SWEET FUCKING JESUS

yeah i think i agree

especially with ydra/actiondan still undecided voters, both of whom have suspected our slot at some point in the game, it's a pretty viable pivot option

[Sunflower]

this is self-destructive behavior if wolf.
They need sunflower to vote with them on Kyoko. Why would they tell this to Sunflower? It simply just does not make sense.

i think black would probably know that her suspecting me isn't going to make me any more likely to vote her

which makes it a relatively safe place for her to look for a partner, which was like a task assigned to her that she's supposed to be completing, compared to any of actiondan/ydra/enchant. there's also ravens as an option but suspecting them likely locks in their vote, and pushing us instead of them actually made them back off a bit. plus if von payne is scum one of those may be their partner anyway

this was a line of thought that i was pondering when i first read her push. i think it's plausible but not like especially likely. i do think it's pretty reasonable that she would suspect me here as town

kyoko response to it in 2458 does feel pretty bad to me though. i would expect her to be considering similar lines of thought to what i had about where scum!black would politically want to look for a second scum, and the light encouragement of it is weird

I encourage the line of thoughts.

You were publicly pushing me all day, and your push and vote on raven there felt more like a performance hunt than scum hunt. I didnt understand how would a town mindset as you would portray to have there, would react to raven's vote on von going with me, find ravens vote on von forced in that context, and then go hunt raven for something in day 2 that was extremly minimal and not scummy. It
felt like a made up push for something more calculated to me, which is why I was dialing down on my catgirl read to try and make sense of it in someway and It was why I dropped you in my reads few pages ago.

You find me saying I like the line of push towny, scummy, cause its done by my top scum read?

jupiter was the one who pushed ravens, not me. although i generally agree with his suspicion there. you're looking at two different heads' approaches to the day and calling them inconsistent. i don't mind him using the vote since i hadn't been willing to commit to a vote yet anyway

and yes, i think you were losing the 1v1 in the court of public opinion so it felt like it could be you seeing a window where you might be able to get out of it. the response feels like it's lacking in the mindset and thought process you would have if you were town who strongly scumread von payne, especially given that you were the one who asked her to find a second scum iirc

[Sunflower]

You were publicly pushing me all day, and your push and vote on raven there felt more like a performance hunt than scum hunt.

the vote came from me not fire lol

[Sunflower]

i won't be around until probably this evening

VOTE: kyoko

[Sunflower]

can you talk about your choice of addition to the hood please

[Sunflower]

I think Jupiter voting outside of the 1v1 is probably +partner equity with Kiri. If Kiri were town they could easily just get on her wagon

would youmind explaining this? i'm gonna be honestly i genuinely don't think this is a move i make as scum. why do you think i'd do that?

MEOWWW

[Sunflower]

seemed like an interesting choice

[Sunflower]

im sleepy zzzzz

[Sunflower]

if we're not gonna talk about the game can we talk about like ace attorney

[Sunflower]

well i meant like not talk about the mafia game, but you're right
do you have a favorite character

[Sunflower]

multiplayer ace attorney?

[Sunflower]

multiplayer ace attorney?

Basically sandbox version where bunch of people join room, make up case and "solve" it.


Result depends from players and come from "boring" to "incredibly hilarious".

feel like i've heard of that before hmmm

[Sunflower]

hey gang how's it going

i hope everyone at home really likes how we're using the hood this time around

[Sunflower]

i sort of like enchant's idea of saying things at the last minute and ill probably do that too

[Sunflower]

i have some Thoughts

[Sunflower]

what

[Sunflower]

okay umm

hmm

[Sunflower]

what do you think will happen next if you get elimmed tomorrow

[Sunflower]

ydra is rolling her eyes at this scum theatre rn

[Sunflower]

[Sunflower]

im asking this to try to see your thought process and bc real time is useful to me to check things late in the game

my gut it saying that if you were faking then you would have felt self conscious and "realized" by now

[Sunflower]

[Sunflower]

im asking this to try to see your thought process and bc real time is useful to me to check things late in the game

my gut it saying that if you were faking then you would have felt self conscious and "realized" by now

Wait am I missing something? I'm too high for this

there's 7 people alive rn

and presumably there will be a death tonight

[Sunflower]

i would also like to win i would appreciate if you tryhard

[Sunflower]

ironic considering i'm not tryharding in the slightest

[Sunflower]

that's okay you're allowed

if we had separate votes i would need your tryhard support though

the issue is needing the town votes to find each other

[Sunflower]

ok so i was looking again at aureal connections and the hu tao counterpush given the kyoko flip

my original instinct was that it felt more likely that scum would take advantage of the kyoko hard tunnel and i kind of gave up on that idea bc of the way kyoko was posting which i regret, my bad. i think that was probably correct

side note im actually not really sure how things turned into feeling like a von payne vs kyoko 1v1, because i went into night 2 feeling like there was a kyoko vs catgirls thing that needed to be resolved

but anyway i think again that page 27 is really crucial here. there's kind of two pushes ramping up here from different town factions. one is led by kyoko pushing hu tao, and one is led by klick pushing aureal. with the sheep phase happening, things are going pretty slow and every post is being given a lot more weight, so scum are likely to be heavily aware of the gamestate and will be wanting to position around it

- gimli immediately locktowns klick in 656 and votes aureal in 658, and 2 hours later comes back to say "what if hu tao town actually" in 661. this i think only makes any sense at all if he's planning to go deep as scum, which i don't think remotely tracks with what otherwise feels like a powerwolfing playstyle. i think this very very likely comes from town

- silver ravens in 655 slightly townleans both hu tao and aureal. i think this is a pretty plausible scum approach for someone who wants to hang back and stay on the sidelines and not get too directly involved. the townlean section on aureal is a little more aggressive in its defensive tone which i think does make me lean towards it being more likely to be scum attempting to subtly influence things

- catgirls in 657 says "as long as it's between Aureal, Dan, and Hu but Dan and Hu seem like the right move" and laughs off Klick's post (653, primarily about scumreads on aureal and catgirls), and then says she won't address it this phase. and then klick dies. ugh. i don't know why i gave this a pass before. this is just so so heavily playing to agenda, but i think if anyone in this game is going to be that bold as scum then it's these two

- von payne in 664 is open to voting both hu tao and aureal, but leans a little more towards hu tao. he then votes hu tao. drew does align himself with the klick and gimli side of things here. i do think that this is also plausibly a scum approach, trying to stay aligned with the town side of things that is pushing scum, while not actually directly pushing scum. it does make some sense paired with catgirls as well since they're setting themselves up to approach from different directions. idk. i think it's possible. there's just been so many places where i think black has felt like she is uninformed and is trying to solve the game from a town perspective instead of enacting an agenda. i think their role is more likely to be a town one. i think even all the confusion yesterday around what they thought their role did is not any more likely to come from scum. i did read over kyoko's case again now that she's flipped and i promise i did heavily consider it but i just am unconvinced, sorry if im wrong. reading through that day phase again it really looks to me like scum!catgirls came in planning to brute force 1v1 kyoko and push her out, and then kyoko got distracted by von payne and wound up there instead.

- ydra pushes against the hu tao elim in 667. ive talked about this a little already but i lean towards it making more sense as town, particularly the complete lack of comment about aureal. that comment does come later with a vote on us in 692, which again is a pattern i feel scum!ydra would do, but ehhhhh. i don't think this approach really is going to win her a bunch of allies in this gamestate. and i still think she's towny by role

- actiondan in 671 focuses primarily elsewhere from the main conflict. he does set himself up to be more willing to vote hu than aureal. overall this feels like a plausible background scum approach similar to silver ravens. im not sure if the repeated comments (multiple times in the same post!) saying "i townlean aureal and catgirls but really need to revisit those ill do that later" is like... too blatant to be partnered with aureal and catgirls? i think if he said it once then i would buy it but the fact that he repeats it makes it feel like such an odd point of focus and im not sure why he would be making it a talking point as town. 1909 btw is EXTREMELY sketchy and not at all reflective of what he actually showed in thread. i don't think his post reads at all like he would have voted aureal there. he calls kyoko and klick both "blatantly town" but ignored klick's aureal push and praises kyoko's hu tao push

i also think that the way that he casually slides from 1948, where when things are still closer to kyoko vs catgirls he says he feels like it's tvt, into 2377 where it's shifted to kyoko vs von payne and now he says there's "no chance it's tvt" is super scummy

the questioning von payne feels like busy work and the end of day doubt on catgirls (2560) feels very fake to me and looks like it's setting up some partnered role theatre. i don't think there's like any reason to ever make that post as town

i also still think that scum would know aureal got guiltied and would want to be the first to point that out so it doesn't make sense to give towncred for that. it was going to get found at some point, it was just a matter of time

[Sunflower]

the more and more that i have reread things, the more it feels like catgirls is playing like they feel like they deserve to be in control of the game and listened to, and i think this comes from knowing that there aren't enough strong voices to challenge them for that role. klick was potentially one that people were listening to and he got nightkilled. prism was another and got nightkilled. kyoko got 1v1d and focused down. i think the people left in the game, myself included, are kind of just easy for catgirls to run over and out-confidence

they have pretty consistently pushed wolf agenda all game and laughed off and disregarded anyone who questioned them. klick was the first nightkill and his top two suspects were aureal and catgirls. prism had just shifted her read towards more of a scumread on catgirls after townreading them all game (1627), and was one of the biggest remaining threats to catgirls thread control. the prism reads do i guess make me think a catgirls partner is more likely to be in von payne/silver ravens, but it's probable there were other motivations for the kill than just her reads. catgirls trying to frame the narrative later in 2094, 2100 saying prism is "the 1 person that never votes me" is pretty blatantly not true

idk i think pretty strongly that it's catgirls and i feel like both heads are probably going to show up and take over the day and town really has to find each other in order to have any chance to contest here. i am guessing that they're waiting to "reveal their reads" so they can decide where they need to push. it feels a little hopeless to me but i think i may have to bet the game on von payne being town which i think im probably willing to do

for the partner i think it's likely actiondan but im not 100% sure. silver ravens is also possible. i think both fit and it's hard to judge between them since they've kind of been playing in the background. my feeling is that actiondan has been doing more to set himself up for lategame as catgirls powerwolfs

[Sunflower]

hmmm

[Sunflower]

why are you claiming now

[Sunflower]

It's limlo. Everybody should be claiming. Mass claim is better done before the dream stuff as some things are targeted and mass claim might change things.

is there a reason you decided to go first?

[Sunflower]

i feel like pressuring potential scum to claim first is generally better, no?

[Sunflower]

yeah idk it probably doesn't matter bc i doubt scum would try to cc dreamer but i went from thinking scum was catgirls/actiondan into finding out actiondan was the revealer, and then thinking it was catgirls/ravens, and then this which felt weird and also very surprising to me

in the span of like 3 minutes

[Sunflower]

i feel like pressuring potential scum to claim first is generally better, no?

Well our bad if we went out of order, but we felt we needed to claim to get people to listen to us. What are the odds that if we call for a mass claim before dream phase without claiming that you folks say it is better to wait until after dream phase? We only have 1 day for this phase so we need to move relatively quickly.

that's fine i guess yeah

[Sunflower]

well i no longer think ydra is towny by role

[Sunflower]

Try as you may, ActionDan cannot be roused from deep slumber.

They were a

Dream Interpreter

of the

Dream Voyagers

.

[Sunflower]

[Sunflower]

i still think it's catgirls but im sort of lost on the second

[Sunflower]

ok we should decide on dreams collectively i guess

i think double jump sounds good, flooding sounds bad, and the rest are iffy. maybe mr beast and knight? or lottery?

[Sunflower]

ive played with scum!alisae and my impression is generally that she views other slots in terms of their usefulness to her, and will flip her read on a townread when she no longer thinks they are useful

i think this can apply to both town and to scum partners, though, so im not sure how telling that is specifically

[Sunflower]

idk if anyone even read my posts i made at end of night (understandable) but i think of the things i said, 657 coming right after kyoko cases hu tao and then klick cases aureal/catgirls (with wagons on hu tao and aureal both starting), followed by catgirls voting hu tao and then klick dies in the night, is probably one of the most important things

maybe it doesn't matter, if this is supposedly getting resolved, but i don't think that catgirls would cc here unless they had some sort of plan which concerns me

so i think it's still important to read things on play

[Sunflower]

you both said the same thing, that you didn't hand out the reporter?

[Sunflower]

it does say in aureal's pm that she can potentially become the dreamer, bc she is a deep sleeper

[Sunflower]

While i like proposal that we just... Uh. No lim and let real Dreamer prove self with picking dream.


Issue is i doubt mafia would be so incompetent to oversight that and we are informed that there's some sort of ability that if used on dreamer will fuck us over.

And anyway they gonna scream "HEY MY CHOICE WAS HIJACKED BELIEVE ME".

we're in moonrise, the dreaming stuff happens prior to lim phase anyway

[Sunflower]

remember to vote for dreams

we're doing knight, mr beast, double jump

[Sunflower]

mmmmmmmmmmm

[Sunflower]

i don't feel great about this

i want to look for who feels like potentially viable partners because i don't really have a good sense of that since catgirls/ravens obviously aren't paired

the double vote thing does definitely feel like a Plan i guess

it does feel to me like catgirls reaction is at least partly genuine so if they are scum then i think something went wrong/wasn't expected

enchant is probably my strongest townread rn

my brain is not very good rn i will try to revisit later

[Sunflower]

ah wait

i guess one possibility is that scum catgirls didn't have a lot of time to plan around the dreamer claim and so they felt they had to cc reactionarily without fully checking things out for how they would deal with it. since they probably would have known ravens was the dreamer but might not have expected a claim

and at the time believed they could steal the dreaming power (? i guess this is a two part thing, if dreaming was also redirected last night?) in order to "confirm" themselves, and pass it off as them controlling the dreaming normally

from the way they were posting in moonrise that's what i expected to happen

but if they learned at some point that the dream stealing would look visibly different to the thread, then they'd have to change their plan to just get some scum power and would probably be frustrated that their original plan didn't work

im not sure if that makes sense actually idk

[Sunflower]

hi, jupiter here! havent been in thread in a hot minute but i've skimmed a bit, i got two theories for you
first, the semi-reasonable one:
silver ravens/von payne, silver ravens drawing attention away from von.
second, the tinfoil one
silver ravens/catgirls
i think the catgirls slot is dubiously scum like ive generally always townread them
but i was thinking and it's like. dreamer is always town right. if they're telling the truth here then one of them must be scum while the other must be town. but what if they're both scum. there's never a world where they're tvt because its like. why in the world would a non-dreamer cc a dreamer, or why would a non-dreamer claim dreamer yk. so what im thinking is that in a w/w world the idea path is to get one of them limmed, get towncred for the rest of the game. it's really good to set up for deepwolf and idk it's a possibility i've been thinking about the more i read

[Sunflower]

VOTE: silver ravens for now!!! will reread in depth and probably change my mind but im comfortable / confident w this

[Sunflower]

also i do think that if silver ravens is dreamer and catgirls is scum it is INCREDIBLY suicidal to cc there but maybe there's a strat there i dunno

[Sunflower]

sorry i rescind my partner theory on catgirls/silver ravens, the first dreamer is always town

[Sunflower]

How little attention to game you have?

yeah

[Sunflower]

sorry i rescind my partner theory on catgirls/silver ravens, the first dreamer is always town

Jupiter, your post made me smile.
It’s also very obviously a townslip.

woahh does that mean you don't think im annoying anymore??? yippee

[Sunflower]

UNVOTE:

[Sunflower]

ok im back

[Sunflower]

nvm my eyes are glazing over at this

there were 2 votes on each ravens and catgirls at one point? so it seems unlikely that double vote is in play rn

i think the reading of "comes into effect on the next game day" as in tomorrow makes sense

me and jupiter are gonna have to talk bc i do not think we agree on reads right now