Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[Sajin]

Although, it is currently Night Zero and the game hasn't started yet, so any votes will be disregarded until the game begins.

Game Rules:

Borrowed heavily from Tarhaliander

<13> This is a modified Deep South setup, therefore

there are no nights in this game

. Please see ability rules for specific rules on ability resolution.

*points*

[Sajin]

Although, it is currently Night Zero and the game hasn't started yet, so any votes will be disregarded until the game begins.

Game Rules:

Borrowed heavily from Tarhaliander

<13> This is a modified Deep South setup, therefore

there are no nights in this game

. Please see ability rules for specific rules on ability resolution.

*points*

This game hasn't started yet, thus it can be night and still there will be no nights in the game.

Have you ever heard of this game called mafia? I think you would be good at it.

Fair enough.

[Sajin]

Vote: Tenchi

I am likely to mess-up these color tags later.

[Sajin]

Its rather simple. Just because the sentence NOW doesn't out power roles or Aes Sedai, it doesn't mean that a sentence in the future won't. Starting down this path of "lets make everyone say the same thing" will only out the people who can't lie (Aes Sedai) later. How can you not see that?

Still, how could this be bad for town?

Regardless:

I have the town win condition and cannot win any other way that I know of.

[Sajin]

It wasn't a mess of a post, it actually makes sense, Cyberbob.
Why?
Aes Sedai have to tell the truth and darkfriends have to lie, so we can use that to our advantage.

IF scum HAD to lie, then I would totally support your theories (and every game of mafia would be incredibly easy). Also there may be more than heaven and death roads. There could be serial killers in purgatory.

[Sajin]

Due to the way locations work in this game I think its impossible for fabian to both be able to detect saidar as in claim as well as observed its use thus far. Therefore I think he is lieing in at least one of his claims and thus I believe none of it. Also, claiming this early seems off too. Explain? This and your weak defense earlier is enough to change my vote though.

[red] unvote, vote:xxFabianxx[/red]

[Sajin]

Due to the way locations work in this game I think its impossible for fabian to both be able to detect saidar as in claim as well as observed its use thus far. Therefore I think he is lieing in at least one of his claims and thus I believe none of it. Also, claiming this early seems off too. Explain? This and your weak defense earlier is enough to change my vote though.

[red] unvote, vote:xxFabianxx[/red]

I find this suspicious, namely because there are very few reasons to logically be voting Fabian right now.

Also, locations take place

at night

while right now we are all in a common area. How did this slip by you? It was written in bold, blue, modtext.

So how did he detect Saidar when we are not in said locations? Thats the obvious reason for my vote.

[Sajin]

I misread somethings. The location thing still bugs me (note fabian, read the blue text, I thought you HAD to be in a room/location, and none of us are in any specified locations). I PMed the mod for clarification and he clarified by referencing his newly edited blue text.

unvote

[Sajin]

You do realize that the crazy guy in the mini was the to be SK right? And that his alignment was to CHANGE during the course of the game, yes?

[Sajin]

Which means (for those like me)

Fabian senses the girl-power.?

I used the boy-power.

Either someone else is doin stuff or Fabian isn't reading role correctly / lying.

Which means I should have kept my mouth shut.

correct on the last line for sure.

vote:SpyreX

[Sajin]

I don't agree. A live townie is a townie we need. I don't know how this theme is going to work with cops and such, but we can always check him later. Did insane people automatically become darkfriends?

In the mini the sk gained a NK immunity and investigation immunity power.

Why would you want to keep this role around again?

[Sajin]

I haven't read the mini. Can someone answer whether all insane people became darkfriends? The point is that if he turns SK then we'll see extra kills. *Then* we can lynch him. I don't think he is scum at this point in time. Should that change, I'll gladly vote him.

Presumably they become insane (which is generally a solo 3rd faction), the man who could channel in the mini died early.

Your theorizing in a small sand box. "Extra kills" could happen from so many things including but not limited to: more sks, vigs, bomb death, triggered abilities, warder trigger (see mini) etc etc. And healing could construe the "true" number as well.

It would be difficult to confirm. Less night kills means more lynches which is protown. Why not nip it off at the bud?

[Sajin]

Well if the insane man stays sane and helps I guess it is ok. However, I do worry about the future. Extra kills means less lynches/investigations/days, and these kills are more likely to be town then scum based on sheer numbers. What/who gentles?


Who knows what the SK gets later, would we be able to stop him? What happens if his alignment changes?

I don't think he could be a town power role for us. Perhaps a vanilla townie. Which is better for us then a used lynch and out a (possible)townie.

unvote

[/red]

[Sajin]

Sk=generates extra kills. If he gets that far unchecked.

[Sajin]

In response to Flay, well we know that he uses Saidin to perform his mysterious double vote, so providing that Kinetic gets the vote counts correct, we will know if he is using Saidin because his second vote will not be on anyone, so SpyreX, if you haven't already, please get rid of your second vote, and don't use it again for the rest of the game, unless asked otherwise. Outside of that, we will have to rely on him to be honest with us with any other abilities that he has at this moment, and in the event that he is gentled, then he will have to tell us so.

In the mini after using the power once he got a night power to become immune to NK and investigations. How could we make sure he is not using this power?

Forgive me for relying on others to be honest during a mafia game. Especially someone who claimed SK.

[Sajin]

I have not claimed SK. That would be retarded.

I have claimed exactly what I am: a town, crazy doublevoter who when doublevotes gets crazier.

Does this mean if I keep doublevoting all willy nilly that I COULD become an SK / Birdman / The Bringer of Death / a goat? Sure.

Is this definitive? No. It could be anything. I could explode and die. I could just get new powers.

So, there is more than a likely chance I will eventually need to be put down. Do NOT confuse this with "Ohh god he claimed SK".

Because, not only is that wrong, that is -exactly- what I expect scum to do to push my wagon.

Right, you just claimed the same role as the confirmed to be SK in the mini.

Anyways, I think you should be gentled immediately. Not lynched. Lynch loses us a chance for scum.

[Sajin]

Can someone correct me if I am wrong: Shadowvoting is not double voting is it? In the mini I think it allowed a vote to be placed on someone other than who you actually voted. I do not think it allowed for a 2nd vote to actually be cast, only appear to be cast.

[Sajin]

I was going post exactly what Maclock just said, figures.

@ARB Have you detected the use of saidar yet? saidin?

[Sajin]

What is your partner's name? Not the player, but the character. That shouldn't out him/her at all.

I dunno.

What is your partner's name? Not the player, but the character. That shouldn't out him/her at all.

I dunno.

Norida Sedai

Correct me if I am wrong but did not ABR just break the 1st oath here and thus lost his powers?

[Sajin]

Because if he was not penalized for it (modkill/whatever), then he is lying or at least able to lie.

[Sajin]

What is your partner's name? Not the player, but the character. That shouldn't out him/her at all.

I dunno.

What is your partner's name? Not the player, but the character. That shouldn't out him/her at all.

I dunno.

Norida Sedai

Correct me if I am wrong but did not ABR just break the 1st oath here and thus lost his powers?

I read this as you assuming he's town, so why try and draw attention to it?Also he didn't break the 3 oaths if at the time he didn't know his partner's name.

Also the 3 oaths have a flaw in that the aes sedai can lie if they believe they're telling the truth, thus if Albert believed Pigs could fly he could say such a thing. Or that's how I remember anyway, and I'm re-reading Knife of Dreams at the moment

But that aside, are you expecting a modkill or public announcement if the 3oaths have been broken? Wouldn't that mean the mod would confirm Albert? Thus I think if action is taken I'd assume it would be private.

Pending a count, I'm comfortable with either a ABR or SpyreX lynch today. I TOLD YOU we would get multiple claims today... I guess if we lynched SpyreX, we should try to get ABR to hammer as discussed in pregame? Not that that should be hard...

Albert can hammer though, according to him. Since voting is not an abillity he can hammer. It was in one of his posts iirc.



There's a lot of people not really contributing a whole lot, I'd like opinion from ArmlX, Myndrunner, Slicey or his replacement, Cyberbob, Tenchi...too many people not contributing, although I appreciate finals etc etc.

I am reading him currently as scum claiming something to avoid a lynch. As such I am questioning whether he could be what he claimed, an aes sedai. Seeing as a true aes sedai is most likely penalized in some way for breaking the oaths, they would not be willing to do so. My quote is where I was questioning if he broke the oaths or not.

If we think he broke the oaths while claiming aes sedai, we should lynch him, cause hes obviously not with the town. If not, then I have no problem with leaving him alive for now. Are you saying he did not break the oaths? Are you trying to protect him? This is our best way to catch false claims of oath-bound aes sedai, catching them lying. Agreed on method? If not, how would you propose catching false claimers?

I do agree that the lurkers should post when they get a chance.

[Sajin]

@Faraday- Answer my last question in that post please, its the most important one. Also, don't assume what I read, thanks.

@ABR Please answer the following question: Can you break the 3 pro town oaths with no consequence?

[Sajin]

@shadow knight- You are assuming a ton of things here. STOP ROLEFISHING.

How would haveing the same abilities confirm someone? How could the flavor of abilities determine it? Heck in the last mini, one of the aes sedai had a power called coersion that force voted for someone. Flavor wise thats very scummy, but he was a pro town role.

All your doing is outing power roles.

[Sajin]

Read what I'm asking for. I'm not outing anyone unless I think they're scum. I know that one of the FIRST things my partner and I did was trade role info, including abilities.

@Albert- Yes or no, do you know what your partner's ability is?

You thinking they are scum does not equate to them being scum. Whats more likely, are they town or scum?


You rolefish right after I asked you not to. Are you even aware that role fishing is scummy? After they claim depends on circumstance, but to out the exact powers of all the town players downright favors the more informed- the scum.

[Sajin]

we should all claim which room we will be sleeping in to help detect the use and targets of Saidar powers.

Yes. Claim which room we are in, so that killing roles know where to find us. Good plan. While we are at it, why don't we also tell our docs to claim who they will be protecting, so the scum can target unprotected people instead?

Seriously, you have just asked for us to put our power roles in the riskiest positions imaginable.

Unvote. Vote: Shadow Knight

I agree with Issac.

SK do you plan on outing every power role on this day 1? Seriously? Stop. Blatant. Rolefishes.

Why are you trying to control everyones ability usage?

Why are you trying to lead town? True pro town players suggest and support with evidence. Anti town players try to control the entirety of the situation.

Unvote; Vote: Shadow Knight

[Sajin]

From-to

To-from

So if one aes sedai stays in each location, assuming detecting saidar in twilight is 100 percent, then we get the direction of all abilitys.

Problems, I do not think detect saidar is 100 percent from ABRs previous post. Therefore, We could only trust positives not negatives. Also, lying to add to the chart would create false positives.

Now it could be useful, but it is not the be all end all broken ability for this game.

@SK 555, I do not feel stupid, I do not want to unvote you. You still want to attempt to confirm stuff, yet I do not think it would be confirmed with your logic. I read it as an attempt to get more abilities out in the open which helps the most informed the most - the scum. Your still rolefishing.

[Sajin]

Even though its a role, jester is more of a playstyle- a playstyle that wants to get lynched, like you were when you claimed. Your actually helping now. Your no longer a jester....does that make sense?

This is not smalltown...the roles are not totally public knowledge. But the removal of the ability to lie for some roles does make for a unique mafia game.

[Sajin]

A list will suffice, no need to dig up links for me.

Search Function, xxFabianxx.
2 Newbie games, one just finished and one in LYLO, then this and Robot Chicken.
Robot Chicken is not a good example of my or anyones playstyle, I won't comment on why because the game is ongoing, read it yourself to see why, but my drunk posts are obvious, just cross reference the times.

I'm not telling you are anyone else about what time I detected Saidar, it has been used twice today and that's the last you'll get.

Sure you can say that it's down to the mod about when he replies and noone can take anything from that.
I want to refer you to your WIFOM bullshit argument about Aes Sedai not wanting to out themselves by pressuring me for lying because it would supposedly out them.
Why the hell does your theory about me telling you times not fit into your bullshit category? Rolefish more please.

Double standards, go take a running jump.

UnFos Mufasa
FoS MoS

I was getting a town read off of you, but you're blatanlty ignoring things and it's not sitting right with me.

Restricting information from town-check

Wifom argument to confuse rather than clarify- check

misrepresenting about lying-check

Unvote

Vote: xxFabianxx

[Sajin]

Benmage, Aes Sedai use the one power too.

Also I slept at the river. SK was the origin of the location claiming and he flipped town. Why should we not claim locations?

More later. Busy atm.

[Sajin]

I am going to go ahead and FOS all the non location claimers (unofficially cause its multiples).

Since you posted alot without mentioning it, official

fos: Mastermind of Sin

Where did you sleep last night? I think your dodging this answer. If you do not wish to answer this, why?

[Sajin]

Even now I fear to write what I heard... but I must get it out of my head...

"The Black Ajah do not exist. That is a lie that was created by people who hate Aes Sedai. If I hear such blasphemy again I will..."

I left before I heard anything more...[/i]

- From the Journal of Jardor Calol

The above quote although adding nothing definitive to the current debate, tells me that its possible for there to be Black Ajah aes sedai in this game. Can we at least agree on the possibility?

@MoS Ok, thanks for the cooperation/information

unfos

.

@ABR You claimed all Aes Sedai are in pairs. How do you know this? Although perhaps logical, I would consider other possibilities. I find your post 879 very odd as well.

Fos to another non location claimer.

fos: tuberkulos

[Sajin]

You say that but really what other play did he have other than slicey it checks out scum not town.

His attacks on people D1, his defenses against arguments, and his claim are all good examples...

---

Alright,

now

I'm going to bed. No more questions till the morning. This game is giving me a headache. Talk about the mute leading the blind, leading the deaf. This game could be used as a case study on witch hunts.

I'm immune to the One Power, and I was motivated last night. I'm not lying, and I'm going to laugh really hard once you all finally come to the realization.

And, before we waste a lynch, are there any One Power day-abilities? Because, you could just target me with one and see that I am immune to the One Power.

You are aware these would likely fail because of KoC right? So I laugh at your attempt to false confirm yourself.

I need the last 2 people to be replaced/claim locations before I vote anyone though.



@Mufasa- Please do not reference ongoing games, its against site rules.

[Sajin]

Wow and thats a claim. Yep, I want replacements first with location claims, but I could easily see a role like that being a possible darkfriend.

[Sajin]

That was a lynch, yes?

@Seraphim- where is the "serious postage" you were going to lay down?

@ABR- So now you doubt that which you were sure of 100 percent a couple pages ago?

vote count plz

[Sajin]

Heh, KoC's ability probably DID work all the way to twilight. It caused a free lynch. That makes sense yes?

[Sajin]

How is it protown to "mess someones vote up"? I think at least one of ABR/partner is scum. Whoever suggested that.

Also, MoS- you realize you were the hammer vote (because of spyrex screwing the votes or whatever other reason), did that cause anything else to happen?

[Sajin]

Also, MoS- you realize you were the hammer vote (because of spyrex screwing the votes or whatever other reason), did that cause anything else to happen?

Why would you suggest that?

Alright well then stop the BS, if you do not know what I am talking about your not an Aes Sedai like I thought you were. Because of an ability, I know your either Aes Sedai or scum. Therefore your scum.

Vote: MoS

[Sajin]

Yes they were. Ability in question was used twilight 1, not 2. I just read MoS as Aes Sedai till now.

[Sajin]

Why did you not try to investigate which of the two he was until just now?

Perhaps you should reread yesterday. I could not do anything without claiming, now I know I have to and will do so after MoS gives me a solid answer to a few questions.

Also from Mos: Direct answer please, Where did you sleep twilight 1. Please note that when he "claimed" his location of silo, all he did was put himself into the list and relist everyone.

[Sajin]

@MoS Interesting. Part of what you said will make me

unvote

you for now. But your no action on twilight 1 confuses the hell out of me.

[Sajin]

@JVW He could say that just fine if he believed it at the time. Why would you bring up these comments now?

Vote JVW

[Sajin]

That power is interesting. Can you use it on posts from day 1 on day 2? Or is it only statements made that day?

[Sajin]

If this is wrong, MoS I have your head tomorrow. I still think your scum.

[Sajin]

I was at the silo. Interesting that 2 claimed river. Hmm.

Alright MoS your off my radar. You indeed got a guilty.


I am still semi V/LA at my conference, when I get back home I will contribute more. Apologies.

[Sajin]

unvote vote kairyuu

guys look at his last post that is an obvious scum just radiating from his speech, Really let me have a day and kill him today

You do realize you claimed neutral right? The posting said 1 of 2 in river was not aligned with the town. You fit the mold pretty well.

Also, I have meta on you. A certain game as I recall that you claimed neutral, were lynched, and ended up as a mafia bus driver. Perhaps you remeber that one. Check please.

Withholding vote for location claims.

[Sajin]

Yet the claim was entirely yours. As is this games.

[Sajin]

I am back from my V/LA.

@MoS- I think it will be smart to start doing this: I will be sleeping at Blacksmith this twilight. Stables will likely be covered as well. Without saying too much more I hope you understand what I am getting at. I don't want you to claim location but doubling up unnecessarily is pointless. Is this agreeable?

[Sajin]

We are waiting on MBL and fuzzy I think.

[Sajin]

They are V/L/A, let him hang.

So that they cannot get in actions or so we cannot confirm their locations?....hmm.

MBL has been posting just not here. So I would assume it is likely the later of those two.

[Sajin]

I'm here and I have a good (protown) reason for not claiming my sleeping location. See you guys in the morning.

No you do not,

fos MBL

[Sajin]

vote: Mufasa

[Sajin]

I slept in the BS this last twilight. I will be sleeping river this next twilight.

MBL I am waiting on 2 location claims from you. Plus explanation of why.

[Sajin]

Vote: MBL

I do not think you realize how important it is that we have a catalog of location claims.

[Sajin]

Sajin, do you trust ABR?

I might be able to verify some amount of one power usage. I think he could possibly be a roleblocker. I think he may be able to lie, and as an aes sedai in claim, that would make him likely scum. I think he has lied previously in the thread. He attacked kairyuu in a flip flop sort of way, who I think is solid town. I think he is more likely to be scum then anyone else who has had a few votes so far. Why do you trust him so? The key reason that I suspect him is that I think he should have suffered the penalty, and it continues to appear he has not. The more he continues to have no good explanations for some statements the more I distrust him.

@MBL-I think your town but scum like in information giving. What harm could the location information do? Why did this not matter till the last few twilights?

[Sajin]

@MBL-I think your town.

Vote: MBL

Kindly move your vote off of the townie please.

If your going to quote me, do not edit my quotes. Especially do not do so mid sentence. That is called misrepresentation. There are at least 3 people who think you telling us your sleeping location is more pro town then you not revealing it.

[Sajin]

Well due to both Mcavitylock saying he is not Benmages partner in 2133 and Benmages detection results cross referenced with location claims, I am outed. Thanks, Benmage. I told you NOT to be very careful with my detection results and instead you rush them. What is up with that?

[Sajin]

I fail at preview button, that grammar was horrible. Hopefully you understand it anyways.

[Sajin]

My partner asks if Sajin used One Power last night.

@Sajin

Did you or did you not use One Power last night?

Once Sajin answers this question, I will have interesting things to say. Please note that Sajin has been posting up a storm elsewhere on site, but has been ignoring this question.

I will continue to ignore the rolefishing. I do not think it is wise to put more abilities and PRs on the table at this time as that lets scum figure out how to deal with them.


I am discussing issues/theories with my partner. Thus the lack of posts in the thread until we finish discussing.

[Sajin]

@Mcavitylock: Yes I used the one power during the last twilight to the best of my knowledge.

My question back at you: Could ABR be scum?

[Sajin]

Mcavity: To the best of my knowledge, my ability resolved successfully. I think you or ABR did not show up. However I am unable to determine more without knowing the nature of your ability.

Thanks for the information on ABR. The forsaken thing sounds weird. The tests are curious. Why did you think that I had not used anything and who would your suspects have been had I not used anything?

I believe ABR is a roleblocker. I just think he has lied to many times to be anything but black ajah. I have to parse everything I type carefully in order to not be penalized yet he seems to not really be following them at all and has misstated ability usages and statements by other people a couple of times and he still has his powers?

unvote; vote: ABR

[Sajin]

All right Sajin, your turn: Do you think Benmage could be scum? Why or why not?

Could? yes. Likely? Not very high at all. His ability usage checks out with detections. Based on statements made in the QT I think he is town. Based on his ability he and I both thought MoS was a non viable warder target because he was scum. This opinion has now changed. In any case, now that we know a few claimed non aes sedai for sure he can attempt to warder them. If it fails they are likely scum.

@ML- Are you 100 percent sure that failed stills on non aes sedai targets show up on detect saidar?

@MBL- I have another reason to ask you another question then, did you sleep at silo last twilight? Can you explain MLs lack of saidar detection in any other way?

[Sajin]

I think I was at silo (looking at old PMs) over twilight 2.

We have had 7 pages of fluff here. If you do not think ABR is lying, why not?

[Sajin]

Also, I don't understand why Benmage wouldn't have been able to bond KoC 1. He was ta'veren, and all the ta'veren in the books are perfectly bondable. Especially with as many AS as there seems to be, I would definitely think his role would have been bondable.

Seraphim/ NEW KoC.

[Sajin]

MBL are you an aes sedai? I know your going to say your not but I have this distinct feeling that you are one as you are so attuned to the one power as you claim to be. Since you have obviously stated untruths in the thread, this would make you Black Ajah. Every claim you make is convenient for you and your keeping options open. That seems scummy to me.

Top Scummiest possibilities:

ABR
MBL
JVW

Most Town:
MoS
Benmage

[Sajin]

@MBL And yet you dodged a bunch of questions and yet you want to post count for me? I answered in order to help ML with his theory which produced some results that somehow you mysteriously refuted. Care to explain that in more detail?

Here how is this: I am not green. Does that help? I didn't think it would.

[Sajin]

I'm thinking a partial massclaim might be useful. At this point, is anyone against claiming AS/not-AS? It would resolve the numbers issue and help us figure out approximately how many Black Ajah we're looking for. Some people seem to think 1 is a good number, and that's going to get us in a lot of trouble. Once this claim has been made, I have some conclusions I think we can make that will help the town.

I strongly support the above. Or a generic mass claim but I do not think that will provide that much more benefits then the quoted part already does.

[Sajin]

None of us "detect power usage". I have only recieved directional information from this power. The "total powers used in area" is not aes sedai based if such a thing exists.

I have the detects that ML has posted.

[Sajin]

MBL can you put the chain saw away?

Can more people give their opinions on ABR and or the massclaim?

[Sajin]

16...Haha do we have some other kind of scum claiming aes sedai?

Or maybe there really are 3 greens. Or another break in the pattern?

[Sajin]

Huh? What does that mean?

[Sajin]

I would still like more people to even comment on ABR.

[Sajin]

Sajin, have you, already as of this post, received your AS partner's recounting of his detected saidar (from your partner, obv, you've not gotten it from the mod)? If so, please post it in-thread. If not, no need to ask him now; I can assume he hasn't lied or you would likely have been up in arms already.

I feel safe asking this because I'm fairly sure I recall a list being posted on

your

behalf, so I am interested in seeing reciprocity.

Are you talking about T4 or T1, T3? I can post them if need be but I am not seeing the need to post all detections atm. Also: What is up with the order for claiming? Why that order?

Also: Why do you want no more claims?

@JVW- I voted you for it because your timing for voting that was incredibly convenient to get pressure off you. Do you feel I was protecting ABR?

[Sajin]

ABR's post has the link too in quotes.

Updated handwritten ones it is then.

[Sajin]

Claiming targets for me is going to force me to full claim probably. I do not wish to.

[Sajin]

Claiming targets for me is going to force me to full claim probably. I do not wish to.

All TSS is asking you to do is claim what your partner detected for Twilight 4, right? Did I read his posts wrong somewhere?

JVW: Have you ever used the One Power in game (not counting twilight 2)?

The only reason I ask this question is because his answer could directly reveal lying scum.

KoC: Does your heal use the one power?

Yes.

Then I think you're lying when you say you protected me last night, because it's not on my detect Saidar.

Unvote, Vote KoC

Interesting...

1: I think those detections are public. Check the benmage claim post.

2: Based on what kinetic said I doubt they are accurate now. I will be happy to claim the new ones benmage gives me.

[Sajin]

I have been very busy with stuff last couple of days, catching up quick.

[Sajin]

Due to the target claiming I think I know a scum for almost certainty. I need to recheck some detections. Should I post these theories today or wait till twilight?

Specifically I would like Moratoriums Detections N1 if possible.

[Sajin]

Sorry I was at work. I think claiming will best explain. Perhaps McLock will now understand why I could not answer his question of who I targeted without outing myself.

I am a mass location cop and my results are both automatically posted at the start of each day as well as PMed with my detect Saidar. Targets:

T1- Stables

T2- Who cares/don't remember?

T3- River

T4- Barn- My notice is the 1 of 3 notice that do not have the town at heart.

Feel free to check these with saidar detects if you want.

It should be quite obvious what the results of my ability is. Also it should be obvious why I thought Kairyuu is town. I had seperate reasons to suspect ABR who was debunking this ability far earlier besides my suspicions as posted in the thread. Should also explain why I did not like MBL not detection claiming.


All I had against Seraphim/KOC was the early lurking. I think JVW is significantly more scummy. However, I cannot be sure either way and as such I would perfer to not lose either doctor as that means MoS or myself will likely die. It does not help that most of the people I suspect are on this wagon.

Obviously with the target claims, I think I know another notice provider in Setael who is very likely scum because of the other notice.

Also I would like someone to unvote for more discussion time.

Note- Claiming locations for EVERYONE pre daybreak is fail as it will allow scum to setup fakes rather easily with respect to detects.

[Sajin]

MBL, you previously stated that you were perfectly fine with the notices. Now as soon as you know they were from me you immediately try to bash them/me. Why switch?

[Sajin]

I am of the brown ajah and I research my locations. Thats about it unless you want my name which I forget atm and is buried in my PM box. Your turn for flavor claim.

Also, Sajin, can you explain why you thought I was scum on like Day 2? I think I know the answer, but I'd like to hear it from you.

Benmage's bonding failed. The saidar matched detection/location claims so I believed him. I figured you were either an aes sedai, another warder or scum at the time. Because you were gunning for a lynch with little provocation at the time in my option later explained by your ability claim. I did not think we had so many damn aes sedai so I thought the odds that you were scum were higher. So I tested you with oath knowledge and have considered you aes sedai ever since.


What I mean is if we all claim locations, then a roleblocker could block MoS, and claim he targeted someone else at the same location. I would rather have a location specified to be noticed and have a couple of the scummiest people there. I can see the positives of mass claiming too, but I think the negatives outweigh the positives in that reguard. Alternatively scum could sleep in my notice location, claim otherwise and then attempt to prove my notice wrong.

[Sajin]

I had a huge reason for claiming now. I felt that with a bunch of people claiming targets and that it was evident that scum would narrow out possibilities for my role and that I would die without being able to tell everyone what I was responsible for. It also put me at a 1 likely scum for 1 town with Setael which is advantageous for us.

@Set- My mass location cop references only that instead of investigating 1 person I research the entire location (mass people)- Not that I am capable of producing multiple notices. I think the only way that would occur is with motivation. What notices are you claiming are yours? I have been busy researching every night. What have you been doing?

[Sajin]

We have JVW claiming to have N1-targeted ShadowKnight, who died N1. His One Power use did not show up on KoC's or MoS's detect. Even though we have a direct contradiction between Setael and Sajin which needs to be explained, doesn't it make more sense to take out ShadowKnight's killer first?

Respond to my other post please.

[Sajin]

Sajin, why didn't you mention the discrepancy between the notes until just now when you roleclaimed? I would think you'd have been excited to out the 2nd Brown since the start of this game day, knowing they're almost certainly scum.

Cause I had no idea who it was until he claimed targets. My claim was my 2nd post after he did so I believe.

Your still dodging my question.

[Sajin]

First off the river does not work. I claimed I would sleep there way earlier today.

I dislike your suggestion as a whole though. For instance, if we all slept at one location besides 2 people it would make all our detect saidars useless except for tallies. Extrapolate that to semi useless for 2 locations. If we use up 2 locations for researching, we will be left with to and froms from 2 locations only and it would be incredibly hard to detect the remaining scum. Thanks for trying to mask buddies.

Seteal, you say you do not get PMs? That is odd. I have been PMed on every research. Given that obvious discrepancy, why would you say that both of us could be town? The only reason I can think of as to why you would say that is so that when I die tonight you can still claim town.

I think its necessary to lynch one of us today. If its me to prove the veracity of my notices or him as my likely noticed guilty thats fine. Because of my notice at stables it likely clears the rest of stables when he is lynched as well as provides 2 more town as clear when we find the one at barn last twilight. If we lynch a doctor I will likely die and never again be able to provide notices.

unvote

vote: Setael

[Sajin]

So what if SK tried to target you with an ability MBL? Why is that not even in your possibilities?

[Sajin]

I cannot

believe

I was speed lynched while V/LA.

If memory serves me, I can still talk in Twilight. I would just like to say that when I flip town and you know that everything I said was true, I do not think you should automatically lynch Sajin. This is why I was trying to reconcile the differences in roles. It was not "flailing". I'm obviously not talking to scum who are thrilled I was lynched and will probably push for a sajin lynch. I don't think we were a 1-1. I think there are all sorts of possibilities that allow for he and I both to be town with slightly different action mechanics, so just don't speed lynch him automatically when I flip town.

I think the town will lose this game unless you start actually scumhunting instead of lynching based purely on assumptions and game mechanic speculation.

We will see. You may just be misguiding daybreak actions with this post. You may not be.

You are likely guilty in which case I have likely clears.

[Sajin]

Wow. That is so stupid.

If my target is not completely obvious then I do not know what to say.

[Sajin]

I did not receive motivation. I do not know why. I asked Kinetic if I was supposed to receive something during the night and he said all actions were carried out as supposed to. I think I may know why this occured. Not knowing the minute details of this priority system sucks.

I would very much like to know who charter targeted and who targeted me.

And yes I targeted the river. I figured that was the most likely place for scum to gather.

[Sajin]

And now you've gone and fucked it up. Thanks, Benmage.
That was done so inelegantly, it's almost impossible to believe that wasn't intentional.

I'm going to have to agree with Benmage. That was a horrible trap. Now if the other person who was going to claim blue is Black Ajah, they will just say they are a tracker. What if not every pairing has been as forthcoming to each other as we have? Moratorium told me he was Blue Ajah at the very start of the game, there was no way he was going to be able to change his claim just because you put him on the spot.

So you did not know he was blue ajah before he claimed to you?

[Sajin]

You blocked the confirmed town motivator? Bleh.

[Sajin]

I stayed at the river as already stated before. Those detects were just posted by moratorium. It should be obvious they came from there.

Two from River
One from Windmill
Two to Blacksmith
Two to River

Also I do not see why I am being leaned on here by several people. What can I do to prove myself? I have used my ability every night. A bunch of people jumped on me for likely doing something else with the supposed motivation that I got, yet I claimed I never got it and it was shown to be true. I cannot prove myself against people that say I am scum because of mechanical differences", I can only speculate as to why such differences must exist. Is there any other reasons?

Also- My 1/3 T1- implicates moratorium or spyrex. I asked the mod for clarification and he said that my ability comes before gentleing in priority and therefore could of detected spyrex as not having "town at heart". Just a heads up.
.

[Sajin]

The page before I made that post, you claimed to be ABR's partner. ABR had claimed that his partner had a vote manipulation ability.

Since I also had an ability that dealt with votes, I surmised that yours was also a day ability and therefore you would not necessarily have something useful to do at night.

As such, I assumed you had not done anything and that was consistent with the facts I was trying to solve at the time.

Bleh. I think that what I italicized is a leap, but I guess this makes sense.

Sajin, why do you think that alignment changes with Gentling?

Well spyrex was supposed to possibly have gone insane. Therefore I doubt he had the heart of the town before he was gentled. But gentling may have removed that possibility.

[Sajin]

Asking the mod some questions. Will try to make a large post when I get back on monday.

[Sajin]

Yes I got a motivation. No action was completed with it though.



@Mod- What is your policy for discussions about theories behind modkills? Also am I able to paraphrase from my QT?

Discuss all you want, but I've already said exactly why he was removed from the game.

Paraphrasing is OK, but beware of directly quoting. That will get you removed from the game.

[Sajin]

I was at river and to the best of my knowledge I ended up not taking any actions.

[Sajin]

Sajin, you really need to answer why you didn't do anything last night.

This. The lack of a notice strikes me as extremely odd.

Sajin, what were your river detects?

I no longer have access to the one power. I have been cut off.

[Sajin]

I told Benmage soon after I was cut off from the one power. It did not happen over this last twilight. I did not even submit a action this last twilight. Would you really think it would of been wise to claim this publically in the thread?


Personally I am confused at the JVW roleblocked claim. I highly doubt that could of occurred with the claims today. So did charter block JVW? Or was JVW not really blocked?

Moratorium, silent, what were the targets of your partners if you have any info?

I did get motivated though which was quite lacking of humor to me since I could not do anything with it. If I was scum where did the extra kill go? And where is the saidar for it?

Also Macavity your forgetting 2: MoS, armlx. There were 11 detectable people to the best of my knowledge. I am not sure if Benmage was allowed to use an action.

[Sajin]

You should probably be able to figure out where I slept

if everyone tells the truth

.

Yeah, about that, funny thing, you'll laugh.

I find the above lines hilarious. I also think that MBL did not submit a kill at least for today.

@Mcavity: there is only 1 possible timeframe for this to have occurred.

There are 3 roles saying Yos has at least a good chance to be scum. This day is dragging imo.

Vote: Yosarian2

[Sajin]

Yos did indeed flip scum, KoC is very likely town cause of my notice....

Who wants Busdriver/redirector tinfoil hats?

Wait a sec, how would Moratorium track him to no one then?

/confused

Would anyone else support getting a full claim from MBL?

[Sajin]

Is that a soft way of saying I was tracked?

Regardless, I targeted no one.

[Sajin]

@Goatrevolt- seriously? Kairyuu is incredibly likely town. Maybe you were too busy lurking that day to realize that we lynched scum based on that information- The same information that declared kairyuu very likely town.

And yes I was cut off from the one power. Ask the mod about priorities. I questioned it as soon as it happened as my research ability still worked. The mod said (paraphrasing here) that gentling stilling and killing are the bottom of the priority totem pole. I saw no reason to state that I was stilled until the next day. I was praying that I was nightkilled as now I am essentially vanilla with some people still not believing my previous results. This game is so damn frustrating ><.

@Kairyuu- Do you think Spyrex did not have the town at heart at one point? Whether your answer is yes or no, go look at my twilight 1 notice please.

@KoC- Don't worry about it.

Although I do not see KoCs motivation about lying about it, I do see Moratoriums motivation to lie about it.

[Sajin]

Priority system. I questioned the mod before spyrex even died about this very thing (when Benmage told me he made spyrex a warder). He gave the same answer to me for both my questions: killing stilling gentling all happen lowest in priority. Therefore I detected spyrex not having the heart of the town before he was gentled. I feel like a broken record.

Silent- how the hell were you blocked? Something is fishy here.

Silent- do you think we have a bus driver of some sort possibly?

[Sajin]

Barn.

Detection is a one power ability.



BTW, I thought I should bring up that Yos flipped standard mafia and was colored the same as the 2 forsaken in the opening post. Therefore we are looking at one mafia group with a 3rd party I think.

[Sajin]

So your randomly going to claim that I am at a 1 for 1 with someone so you can ML me? Very well. Two can play night action logic.

There have been 2 kills and one went missing tonight. The 2 things that could most likely stop kills are JVWs doctor and the claimed roleblock on silentspeaker.

So either JVW did stop a kill and is town (which I don't really believe) or silentspeaker tried to commit a kill and was roleblocked (more likely). Therefore JVW and silentspeaker are likely either BOTH scum (together or opposing faction) or NEITHER scum together.

Because I see KoC as town, I think JVW is likely scum and therefore silent speaker is likely as well.

Silent-explanation? (And why your at it, if you could respond to the last post that I did not see you respond to, thanks)

[Sajin]

My T5 was river.

[Sajin]

How come I am T's and everyone else is N's?

[Sajin]

unvote
vote: Moratorium

If he is my CC, so be it.

[Sajin]

Dammit I was putting him at L-1.

[Sajin]

Could you give us a town/non town list moratorium? Sorry ><

[Sajin]

Damn. Good game scum. You deserve the win.

By the time we started using the detections/locations as the method for determining lynches instead of scumhunting I just got so bored that I stopped caring entirely about whether I won or not.

Props to Sajin especially in my view. You had me completely convinced that you were town. A massive improvement over your play in Majora's Mask and Case Closed (though you impressed me pretty nicely right at the end of both of those as well by nabbing the last scum in endgame both times).

@Kinetic: How come the number of people we needed to get rid of was so high? We only mislynched twice (plus the modkill) all game and still got beaten after a 9 player endgame. Knowing you, I'm sure the balance was there, but I'm curious as to why there were so many, but no pro-town killing roles (as far as I know).

Mafia had zero ways of dealing with the SK except through lynching. In short, there was no cross kills.

Also mafia was not unified at the start of the game.

Fabian/goat pair

Yos/JVW pair

and myself and Mr Flay were paired.

[Sajin]

Fun game thanks Kinetic.

I gotta say I really was disappointed I got modkilled for jackassery. I was utterly confused that I lost my powers. It was because of purposeful lying/deceptions...but this clearly wasn't the case.

Apparenlty I lied to everyone saying bond was a twilight action. It was indeed a Daybreak action...but when reading my role I believed it to be a twilight:

Bond Warder – One Power - Active - Green – You may attempt to bond a warder during the

twilight.

Target a player. If this player can be bonded as a warder, they will be bonded to you. A player may voluntarily choose not to be bonded to you, however once bonded only you can break the bond. A bonded player gains new abilities, as the bond strengthens them and you will be able to communicate privately with them.


I had started to doubt Sajin and think that I and SpryeX could've done some beneficial town moves. My modkilled handed them the game and ruined the integrity of the game. I wasn't being malicious in my moves to warrant the modkill in my opinion. The overall goal is fun....oh well. No hard feelings.

I believe the modkill was because you lied. You said you KNEW that people had lied about their twilight actions....which was only based on what I claimed to you as being stilled. You lost your powers from that and then quoting it to try and use it to find out a liar was the reason for the modkill imo.

[Sajin]

Oh right then. Fair enough.

[Sajin]

The town would have won no questions asked had JVW been lynched the day he got taken to L-1. Without JVW we would have had only 1 kill per night with like 16+ people alive, and me the only scum who wasn't under heavy suspicion. There's no way I could have pulled it out against like 10 townies though, since I had lurked most of the game and would have been a process of elimination lynch at some point or another.

I thought it was a guaranteed loss at that point. However, JVW actually did target SK that night (with his false heal ability, though) so I knew the 1-1 was based on incorrect assumptions somewhere. When MBL kept pushing the idea of someone roleblocking SK I was able to figure it out. Being able to swing that lynch from JVW at L-1 to the real mass cop being lynched was huge for us.

*high five for the tagteam chainsaw defense*

[Sajin]

Oh yeah, major boo to Kaiyruu for giving his real life friend the triple kill despite Isacc being scummy day one. I hope you learned from your mistake, Kaiyruu, because if you do it again I know a lot of people who'd ban you from their games for that kind of play. Every game should be a clean slate when it comes to trust.

I disagree. Sometimes you get better reads on people with using abilities on them rather than the person you have no clue of.

[Sajin]

I knew I was obv scum after the moratorium lynch. You should of seen my QT idea in case KoC got the protect off or charter roleblocked Goat before deadline (which would of prevented endgame).

And Kairyuu, if I had a kill I would of loved that motivation you sent me.

[Sajin]

Since I don't think Kinetic has posted the combined mafia QT (could be wrong)

http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/nTQuD3dHSLQE

We got access to this once Fabian died. (Thank you spyrex for calling me a Ultra Townie! That is going into my sig)

[Sajin]

I am extremely curious of Fabians role PM

[Sajin]

I agree. The 2 scum lynches at the start of the game helped us as much as they hurt.

[Sajin]

BTW, MoS was awesome. He had us pegged and confused that he was the tracker. I knew tracking was not the best power against us but his reads scared me.

[Sajin]

Wow at Fabians role PM. Brainwashing would of been epic. Especially on kairyuu.

[Sajin]

I don't think anyone figured out JVW had a killing ability. He got roleblocked so many times but because it happened on the following day no one matched up the saidars. He claimed his true target every day.

[Sajin]

So...town gentled their vigilante day 1. Excellent.

[Sajin]

Thats how spyrex died. Alright.

And yes it was kairyuu track killed to ABR which took the BG of slicey down instead.

[Sajin]

So how many kills were possible in this game....

Flay-1
JVW-2
Goat-3
Issac-4, 5 euphoria
Spyrex-6
Kairyuu motivation- 7

Sheesh.

[Sajin]

I don't think anyone figured out JVW had a killing ability. He got roleblocked so many times but because it happened on the following day no one matched up the saidars. He claimed his true target every day.

I was laughing.

I was so worried someone would connect the dots. Every single one of JVW's targets corresponded to someone that was killed the following twilight.

Ahhh, so I wasn't correct about Isacc completely.

And yes, I used the Eavesdrop kill to kill whoever Kairyuu targeted, which was ABR, who was protected by a Bodyguard, Slicey. It took me forever to figure out what the hell happened with that kill.

The confusion in the Mafia thread was so amusing for much of the game. Goat's Indirect Kill would never work correctly, JVM kept getting blocked, it was madness.

We were so demoralized when JVW was on the lynch stick and YoS was going to be lynched after based on the real cop's report. We were going to lose our extra kill with 15ish players left.

And yes Goats track kill NEVER worked right. Spyrex did not die. ABR did not die. We had to resort to old fashioned direct kills to fix the problem

[Sajin]

So would anyone have bought the I was cut off from the one power because I lied (using my statement where I called Kairyuu confirmed town). I am curious.

[Sajin]

I agree it was not useless. We had to claim one power user of some sort as well as what room we were in truthfully.

The massive amount of information in investigative roles was supposed to disallow misslynches, or make them very uncommon. Armlx, silent speaker and seteal were all hard information roles. The only balancing factor was 6 scum (and we never even got to use Mr Flays abilities before he was being strung up, the forsaken may as well have been goons, Issac doubled his incinerate and his truth detection was meant to be good against Issac or to find the other forsaken).

If we lied about locations to dodge a role (seteal) then another role could catch us (MBL), not to mention explaining the saidar detections.

the innkeeper, butler and the green ajah could get confirmed town in addition to the aforementioned roles. I am glad everyone got stuck in solve the puzzle mode instead of find the scum mode. That made us able to eek out the game.

[Sajin]

Which happened! I panicked so much when that worst case scenario happened.

[Sajin]

I thought you were far more powerful then you were. I figured town had a lie detector somewhere if we did.

[Sajin]

From your perspective, sure.

The fog of war does many things.

[Sajin]

Question: Should I have actually got a guilty on spyrex if he did not have the town at heart?

I assumed he never would be able to channel because my research should of hit before the gentling occured (and yes my result was innocent even though I posted 1 guilty and used that as my excuse later on).

[Sajin]

But spyrex: My dark research got an innocent on you and its a TWILIGHT ability. Gentling is a DAYBREAK. Explain that

[Sajin]

But did you have the town at heart?

[Sajin]

I am curious as to what Kinetic thought.

[Sajin]

I agree that seteals ability could of been game breaking used every day and us not catching it till day 3-4. I am glad I got Seteal to believe I was town and that she was naive.

If it had been used before in other locations I would of had to play very differently to put a stop to it early.


Then again the setup was balanced around more kills or a conversion happening. I think if we would of actually gotten use out of our forsaken rather then them basically being goons we would of not been so desperate for a misslynch or 2.

With more kills, that means less investigations, which means more informational roles could be fine.

[Sajin]

Some cop! Slept through the first night and then "distracted" by a hooker. (Curious what kind of hooker an Aes Sedai would go for) and then when I finally get a result Sajin is all up in my business. I had no way of knowing which note was mine.

I guess I can see where my role could have been useful, but it sure didn't work out that way. It was certainly not Sajin that convinced me I was naive, nor was I even convinced of that. All I was convinced of was that the 2 contradicting notes didn't make sense. I did not consider the possibility (because imo it rendered my role useless) that scum would receive a pm with the notice when I did not, let alone be able to change it before it was posted.

This game made me realize I have to quit mafia, which I'm bummed about. Getting speed lynched while V/LA over July 4th weekend after replacing into a game that took me WAY too long to read made me rethink how I'm spending my time. Goodbye forever, scummers!

It was a fun game (especially while faraday was alive). I don't know how you find the time, kinetic. GG all.

><

GL to you! Sorry about the QL over the holiday.

[Sajin]

Slicey they were part of the mafia but the mafia were weakened while the other was alive. Therefore they had a sub objective of killing each other.

[Sajin]

I knew you should of claimed aes sedai flay >< Sorry I could not help you more.

I figured out the weaving was detect saidar only. But...I was confused how Saidin would of shown up there in the firstplace if it is detect saidar and not detect one power(flavor wise).... so that led to the false misconception Flay (and myself) had about weave inversion.

[Sajin]

That was my idea. Bleh. Stupid, looking back.