Mafia 105 - Caught in the Crossfire (Game Over)

[Idiotking]

Vote Count, Day 5

hiphop ( 0 )
shotty to the body ( 0 )
fhqwhgads ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 0 )
Pads ( 1 ) - SpyreX
popsofctown ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 0 )
Unvote ( 8 ) - Pads - popsofctown - idiotking - Shotty to the Body - Sotty7 - RedCoyote - hiphop - fhqwhgads
Total Votes ( 9 )

With 9 alive, 5 needed for a majority.
Deadline is December 23rd, 11am EST

The only person I see him opposing was hiphop. Now I shall reread hiphop.

[hiphop]

Looking back these are the only people alive that were not on the ek wagon.
rc, spyrex, shotty to the body, fhq(Energentic penguin) and pops.
Spyrex expresses desire to have ek vigged. So he comes off the list for now.
Shotty and pops, were both inactive, but redeem themselves on the charter wagon.
fhq was imag's pet lynch so he comes off.

Who does that leave us? RC. Got to be the godfather. I don't know how often godfathers are used on this site (never seen one on this one, but there is one on every game on another.), but he has some rather strange connections.
Charter's only mention of rc found in post 1039 Calls him town. (day 2, may or may not have joined yet)

In imaginality's post 456 He is town along with ek and charter(definitely not recruited yet, but it is possible he could have known already)

And Elvis, well... Only statement directed at rc is not to post twice to get around, what was once then, the 500 word limit.

And now for the icing

elvis, 807 & EP 813: Y'all get some props for catching this, too.

Nothing, but praise for Elvis.

elvis, 903: I like this post, but I'm really worried about elvis' position as town at the moment. rofl drew some good conclusions between imaginality and elvis, and it's hard for me to unsee them.

yet no vote. Gone for the rest of elvis's life, and the only thing rc asks charter is who did he kill.

Either scum bussed or it has got to be fhq, rc or spyrex(three people who did not vote for eithere scum.) Fhq, and spyrex are eliminated, so the only one left is rc. Possibly a godfather mason (might be a rare role, but this isn't a normal game.)

I just saw something new. In RF's role it says

However, any day kill you give me within the first 48 hours of the day will be made at the end of the 48 hours.

Meaning that whoever killed charter could have done so before he claimed. Being that charter was heading for a lynch at the time, it must be a vig giving the town another kill.

[hiphop]

vote redcoyote

[fhqwhgads]

As much as I am intrigued by scumRC, I'm just not too sure about the Godfather qualifier. Of course it could just also be the case that rofl did not investigate RC. That would eliminate the problem of trying to explain away an RC innocent result.

Reread SpyreX and concentrated on the votes he made. Seems pretty much town to me. RC is behaving a lot like in our previous game, where I was sure he was town. I was wrong. I hate using meta as a scumtell, but I don't have any much more on him as such.

[RedCoyote]

I would have to say that rc is 100% (not 99) cleared as scum

Who does that leave us? RC.

there is no way that rc is the godfather

RC. Got to be the godfather.

[RC] has zero connections with the scum flips, that I can see.

[RC] has some rather strange connections.
Charter's only mention of rc found in post 1039 Calls him town. (day 2, may or may not have joined yet)

In imaginality's post 456 He is town along with ek and charter(definitely not recruited yet, but it is possible he could have known already)

And Elvis, well... Only statement directed at rc is not to post twice to get around, what was once then, the 500 word limit.

I don't think you're being sincere any longer, hiphop. What do you say to that?

[Idiotking]

Good Lord, that's the most blatant flip-flopping I've ever seen.

Vote Hiphop

A combination of his flip-flopping and his previous (and current) adamant claim that RC is scum, even though RC is almost certainly town.

[Shotty to the Body]

Back from finals, gotta catch up.

[Shotty to the Body]

I'm going to be incapable of major rereads until Tuesday when I'm done with finals, but I'll be looking at whoever was pushing hito lynches then.

I'm curious. Do you believe Hito was NK'ed by mafia or another (possibly town based) power role?

Hmmm I'll bite my tongue, but I think either is a possibility.

[Shotty to the Body]

Until RC comes up with something hitting hiphop as scum that doesn't relate to hiphop's cases toward him I'm happy with a

fos RC

pending a reread. Hiphop's argument makes sense, but I need to check them both out again.

[SpyreX]

Who does that leave us? RC. Got to be the godfather.

Being that charter was heading for a lynch at the time, it must be a vig giving the town another kill.

Either scum bussed or it has got to be fhq, rc or spyrex

I'm a bit irked by the adamancy in the first two statements and THEN the possibility opening up in the last.

However:

Good Lord, that's the most blatant flip-flopping I've ever seen.

Vote Hiphop

A combination of his flip-flopping and his previous (and current) adamant claim that RC is scum, even though RC is almost certainly town.

Now this gets me on the other end. I'm going to make one of those fabulous statements: This is NOT the tone of a same-alignment argument.

One of IK / Hiphop is not town. I'd bet a hat on it.

I'm just not sure which one.

[Pads]

I'm going to be incapable of major rereads until Tuesday when I'm done with finals, but I'll be looking at whoever was pushing hito lynches then.

SttB is implying that he holds one or more of the following beliefs:

a) Only scum find townies scummy.

b) The scum made a choice to make themselves look bad by killing someone they had publically denounced as scummy, and revealing that person to be non-scum.

c) We should out the vig.


The first option is a path to a mislynch, the second option doesn't make much sense, and the third option is just anti-town play. A reread of Shotty to the Body ensued. It is not good.

His last 40 posts (PPE: as per the typing of this) are here with a quick analysis of each. Direct quotes are removed to save space, but this list is designed to be read with another window open showing SttB's iso.


Iso Post 30 - Says he's suspicious of RayFrost. Says he will reread RedCoyote (an analysis of RC never occured)

Iso Post 31 - Says he will reread Hito (an analysis of Hito never occured). Says he will vote IK for reasons previously discussed.

Iso Post 32 - Questions Idiotking's assumption that there are two scum left.

Iso Post 33 - Votes RayFrost so that we can look at him. (There's no further analysis of RayFrost from Shotty to the Body, indicating how much he was 'looked' at)

Iso Post 34 - Defends himself against SpyreX

Iso Post 35 - Defends himself against SpyreX

Iso Post 36 - Defends himself against SpyreX

Iso Post 37 - Defends himself against SpyreX

Iso Post 38 - Defends himself against SpyreX

Iso Post 39 - Defends himself against SpyreX

Iso Post 40 - Agrees with Hiphop's confirmation of town-RC, saying that Hiphop's arguments make sense.

Iso Post 41 - Questions hiphop about his case against RC. Both 40 and 41 are repeats of the sentiments posted by others.

Iso Post 42 - Repeating of other people's thoughts regarding the killing of Charter.

Iso Post 43 - Game setup discussion and repeating of other people's thoughts regarding a back up vig.

Iso Post 44 - This could almost be considered a content posts, except that he doesn't actually express any opinions other than dismissing the opinions of others.

Iso Post 45 - Game setup discussion.

Iso Post 46 - Game setup discussion.

Iso Post 47 - IioA and repeating what others have already said.

Iso Post 48 - Game setup discussion. I hope everyone reads that last sentence a few times.

Iso Post 49 - Defends himself against SpyreX

Iso Post 50 - Explains his defense against SpyreX

Iso Post 51 - Defends himself against SpyreX

Iso Post 52 - IioA

Iso Post 53 - Agrees with someone without adding anything himself.

Iso Post 54 - Agrees with someone without adding anything himself.

Iso Post 55 - Copy and paste of the vote count.

Iso Post 56 - Vote count repair.

Iso Post 57 - Some minor opinions about game setup.

Iso Post 58 - No content.

Iso Post 59 - Nothing of value.

Iso Post 60 - Nothing of value

Iso Post 61 - Nothing of value

Iso Post 62 - Call for a mass prod.

Iso Post 63 - IioA

Iso Post 64 - Nothing of value.

Iso Post 65 - Barns a townie. Nothing wrong with that, except he fails to add anything himself. Likely instigating from the sidelines.

Iso Post 66 - Condemns Zakeri because he won't defend himself. But the truth is that Zakeri had already stated that his spot in the game was guilty of what he was being accused of, lurking.

What defense is a lurker supposed to have, anyway? The whole idea of a lurker lynch is to dispose of an unreadable player. But SttB seems to have forgotten that and is portraying Zakeri as scum.

Iso Post 67 - Pushes the Zakeri lynch as a done deal. There's a clear air of not trying to find another option.

Iso Post 68 - IioA

Almost no content, and every trick in the Plainsight Lurking 101 book is in use here. No reads and no real idea creation is going on here. And, of course, he's managed to slip on every non-scum (IdiotKing pending) wagon that's moved for the entirety of his time in the game, and he was a part of neither Charter nor Elvis_Knits' wagons at the time of their deaths.

It's time to lynch Shotty to the Body.

vote: Shotty to the Body

Furthermore, with Shotty to the Body flipped as scum, we can assume SpyreX is town (his reactions to SpyreX's attacks are emotional and vulgar enough to dismiss the likelihood of scumbuddiness), we can assume Idiotking is likely town (given Shotty's willingness to get on that wagon), we can assume Hiphop is likely town (given Shotty's willingness to get on that wagon) and we seriously need to consider RedCoyote as his partner, given SttB's lack of a read on him (granted, he did the same to Hito), his willingness to 99% confirm RedCoyote (a townie would not say 99% sure for someone he considers to be confirmed), and his light defense of RedCoyote after Hiphop's vote on him.

[Pads]

As for HipHop, Post 1776 takes a few too many leaps in logic for my taste. But his point about the second RedCoyote quote there is worthy of more serious consideration, as that does certainly look like scum reacting to their buddies' wagon.

[popsofctown]

Wow.... page 72 is a goldmine laden with alignment info and goodieness..

Hiphop punches a case on RC godfather. The problem here is that I'm quite the pessimist when it comes to town ability to scumhunt (and I'm right to be that way, statistically the town edges over random chances, and stays far from blasting them). It's better off to listen to the mod info. If he sees the mod info as inferior, he's really overly optimistic about his own ability to scumhunt (and probably over optimistic about the process in general). In a hypathetical 25 man game, with a hypathetical looney mod that lives in a boot, we'd have a godfather, a miller, and an immune SK. In such a game, a sane cop is still ~88% accurate. (the squiggly is because it's over 24 not 25 because the cop doesn't investigate himself. But have you tried 100/24 in your head?? it's hard).

I don't think that difference in understanding of the game is scum fueled though. It's not townie either, it's probably just the way he views the game, so he plays it as town and bluffs that he's playing it as scum. But it is the reason why I'm not voting Redcoyote in this game with any less than 4 dumptrucks of tells or other mod info (and hiphop has not produced even a pickup truck of tells. Scum Never Bus isn't nearly enough).

But he lose a few points for voting someone who's probably townie (the way we've been docking players this game for having voted dead townies.) And then he loses tons of points for post 1779.
Waow.

That's bad, and really does look like a scum player forgetting his synthesized official platform on another player. And since it's coming from a player who's been pretty bleh and mech on the meter all day, it's not someone I wouldn't mind hanging.


Spyrex, I'm not liking the way you are looking down the scope in the latter half of 1784. "When one flips town kill the other" is fine if you can justify it, but instead you're handing me and "it's just there".

Then Pads comes and scumhunts in a logical, coherent way, something I don't recall happening this game. He makes a good case for Shotty active lurking, which might be something i just could give a name to this whole game. It's pretty compelling, and he explains a lot of alignments it could tell us about. But he doesn't mention the most interesting alignment, which is his, and that makes me want to see Shotty's flip.

but

Shotty's active lurking doesn't hold a candle to hiphop's flipflop acrobatics. I lynch for information when I can't find scum, and I think I've found it.

Vote: hiphop

[SpyreX]

Spyrex, I'm not liking the way you are looking down the scope in the latter half of 1784. "When one flips town kill the other" is fine if you can justify it, but instead you're handing me and "it's just there".

I've been fighting a RL shitstorm today so I haven't got a chance to parse it out correctly. I'm NOT going to simply say lynch one then the other.

Hiphops flipping irritates me, but a lot of his other posts don't make a lot of sense to me as scum.

IK, on the other hand, had that whole give up business and some tenantive problems.

I'm trying to figure out which one of them is the scum. I'm pretty damn confident that one of those will flip scum. I'm positive that both wont.

[popsofctown]

Most of hiphop's play does not make sense at all. The only thing I can make sense of is really scummy. Sort of like my EP logic, except this hasn't been damaged by connections or an EP crumb.

[popsofctown]

ebwop: possible rofl crumb

sorry guys. tired posting. tired posting is just as dangerous as durnk posting kids! don't keep going, take an hour long nap at the gas station and drink a coffee instead!

[SpyreX]

Most of hiphop's play does not make sense at all. The only thing I can make sense of is really scummy. Sort of like my EP logic, except this hasn't been damaged by connections or an EP crumb.

See, hiphop is really an engima.

He hops on my wagon and encourages more votes. Without any reason.

BUT, then he tells me to make sure I don't get killed via overposting.

Then comes on Mae but his csl vote is:

vote csl Besides, do you really want someone in this game with a bad past, that they can't defend. You are putting off the inevitable.

Then there is his iso 14 which I still can't make heads or tails of in regards for having a vig shoot ek. It REALLY seems like he is aiming for the shot to NOT be taken which, with elvis being scum, could be a desperation move.

But then tells rofl to stay on elvis versus jumping for vi (iso 16)?

And then comes out hard opposed to sigma.

And votes charter.

And calls xyl town rightfully so. And gets on Ray.

And stays on charter when exploring other avenues.

---

It hurts the head but really the ONLY thing that sitting there when giving it a real read that really bothers me is the issues with RC.

However, those DO make sense when you take it as a function of new information coming into the game.

IF I'm wrong and hiphop is scum I'd almost guarantee him being part of a second group (or, of course the mafia are two groups and we're just not seeing any distinguishing marks).

So, I'm apparently letting pads freaking go again:

Unvote, Vote: Idiotking

[hiphop]

RC- In 1680 I got your connections with scum, mixed with idk's. I should of double checked that. My current case still stands.

Now this gets me on the other end. I'm going to make one of those fabulous statements: This is NOT the tone of a same-alignment argument.

One of IK / Hiphop is not town. I'd bet a hat on it.

I'm just not sure which one.

You made that statement based on Idk's quote? And not on connections to each other throughout the game. To me, IDK, is not scum with elvis, imaginality, and charter. (even though I said the same thing about rc, I doublechecked this one.) It is possible to be a sk, but with no other killings besides the ones I believe made by the vig, I doubt it. So the only logical vote based on your above post is to vote for me, and that is your decision.

(or, of course the mafia are two groups and we're just not seeing any distinguishing marks).

The problem with this is in the beginning the mod had all the fake deaths and they are clearly outlined as mafia 1 or 2...but as I am writing this the third kill was up in the air, so it is possible... but than we have day 2 in which the only kills were by charter and rf... of course charter could have joined the mafia already, and the other one could have been saved by zak. So I guess it is very plausible to have two mafias.


However I do believe that that mason is still up in the air. That is what we should be searching for. Unless Elvis told his mason to bus(probably toward the end of the wagon), it had to be someone who was either inactive (pops and shotty), or someone who did not vote for him(rc and spyrex) RC is the only person, who logically stands out. Yes, he had to of been investigated, and the only way to get around that is to be a godfather. Godfather is one of the roles listed in the roles section, so don't tell me that most mods don't use them, because it is evident that this one does.

And, of course, he's managed to slip on every non-scum (IdiotKing pending) wagon that's moved for the entirety of his time in the game, and he was a part of neither Charter nor Elvis_Knits' wagons at the time of their deaths.

I like your case, however nobody was on charter's wagon at the time of his vote, and shotty was the second to last person to unvote him. On the bw, Shotty was the second person on it. I don't like the idea of shotty voting for his buddy right after he lost one.

[hiphop]

That's bad, and really does look like a scum player forgetting his synthesized official platform on another player. And since it's coming from a player who's been pretty bleh and mech on the meter all day, it's not someone I wouldn't mind hanging.

Have you ever tried skimming someones posts one day, and than going back the next day and everything seems different. That is how I am with rc. There is an itch, that I cn't get over. Something doesn't feel right with rc. I read him one day, seems townie, and than the next scummy beyond reason. My constant flipflopping is because I can't make heads or tails. Maybe I should write him off as neutral, but I can't ignore my current read, which says he is scum. He still is the most logical person to be scum. No votes on either scum wagon.

[RedCoyote]

I seem to be having an easier time finding townies than scum at the moment and I am pretty much leaning town on everyone else.

I'm actually still on the other side of this fence. I would be very content with your lynch, frankly, as well as Idiotking, and now possibly hiphop. I think Pads' case against SttB is no joke either. To be perfectly honest, fhq is really the only player I feel comfortable with. I think a case could be made against just about everyone else.

Your town suggests to me that he stands apart from us there. He doesn't include himself, it's strange. It's the little things really and I am not confident on it at all.

Apart from the fact that the word your is simply a possesive modifier used as an adjective in this case (in other words, grammatically speaking, my belonging or not belonging to said town isn't established either way), why would you think I would be so transparent? WIFOM or not, I have to say, as scum, I really don't think of myself as a separate entity when I am making posts. I don't think most players do either.

---

SttB is implying that he holds one or more of the following beliefs

The problem I have with this is we're all kind of assuming hito was shot by a town-sided role. I mean, that sounds more logical, sure, but possibly Shotty had it the other way around? Whatever the case may be, I'm glad it got you moving on someone, Pads.

---

Godfather is one of the roles listed in the roles section, so don't tell me that most mods don't use them, because it is evident that this one does.

You've been harassing a lot of us for not reading the Mod's rules enough, but here you are trying to outguess the Mod forcing a Godfather into the game. Your logic, as I take it, is that I have to be scum, but I also had to have had an innocent report on me; therefore, RC = Godfather.

And no, you can't write off your complete 180 degree flip with "you mixed up me and idiotking". Admit you are making it up as you go along. You said I was 100 percent confirmed, those are

your

words. I mean, I appreciate the fact that, if you are town, you are going back and rethinking your ideas, but you don't just say the someone is 100 percent confirmed town and then take it back a few pages later. Either you have no conviction in your words, or you flatout lied. You need to man up to one or the other, and I think you may have missed the opportunity. By my read, the townie thing to have done was to say you had misspoken in either 1680 or 1776, because you can't sit them both side by side and say that you changed your mind.

I don't know though, as crazy as it sounds, it's still difficult for me to justify lynching you. My gut is saying it's not right, even though this is the same gut that said hito, CSL, Mae, and Zak were all good lynches. Speaking of which...

---

CSL

( 13 ) - RedCoyote -

sigma

- Pads -

crypto

- popsofctown -

roflcopter

-

Infinis

- shotty to the body -

charter

- hiphop - idiotking -

hoopla

-

imaginality

Maemuki

( 10 ) -

Infinis

-

Vi

-

roflcopter

-

charter

-

Zakeri

- RedCoyote -

sigma

-

Xylthixlm

- SpyreX - popsofctown

RayFrost

( 7 ) -

Xylthixlm

-

roflcopter

- Shotty to the Body - RedCoyote - idiotking - fhqwhgads - SpyreX

Zakeri

( 7 ) - SpyreX -

Xylthixlm

- idiotking - Shotty to the Body - Sotty7 - RedCoyote - hiphop

(Note: I think these are all the final vote counts (remember some people unvoted RF), if someone can prove otherwise please speak up)

Things I notice:

∙ Sotty is on only one of these wagons. (Zak)
∙ Pads is on only one of these wagons. (CSL)
∙ I am on all of them. (oh shi-)
∙ I have to think that there was at least one more scum on the Mae lynch. Meaning that, from my perspective, either Spyrex or pops is scum. (Finally some analysis!)

[popsofctown]

let's make some false dilemmas!

[RedCoyote]

Tell me I'm wrong, pops. Tell me everyone who voted Mae, except for charter, was town.

[fhqwhgads]

I'm in agreement that either IK or hiphop is scum. While I would like to keep pressure on RC, just for old time's sake, the godfather theory is a stretch. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think its unlikely. So against my gut feel, I'm going with RC-town for now.

But IdiotKing. Man, that guy is begging for a lynch.

Vote: IdiotKing

I mean, I know this is kinda OMGUSsy, but when he tried to call me out faking a reread, it was a nice town distraction.

[Sotty7]

Hip hop, what do you think of the other people who were on Elvis wagon? Do you think there is no chance of scum in there?

I'm trying to figure out which one of them is the scum. I'm pretty damn confident that one of those will flip scum. I'm positive that both wont.

Why so positive that they both won't flip scum?

Things I notice:

∙ Sotty is on only one of these wagons. (Zak)
∙ Pads is on only one of these wagons. (CSL)
∙ I am on all of them. (oh shi-)
∙ I have to think that there was at least one more scum on the Mae lynch. Meaning that, from my perspective, either Spyrex or pops is scum. (Finally some analysis!)

This isn't really analysis Red because you don't give any reasoning for any of these things you notice. Why is it important to note that both Pads and myself were only on one wagon? (I did ad a vote on the CSL after imaginality, but yeah he had reached majority by then) Why do you think more than one scum is on the Mae lynch? Numbers and probability are one thing, but did you go back and look at Spy and Pop's hop on to the wagon? I just feel like you are throwing these things out with nothing really to back it up.

[zoraster]

Because it's been a while since the last vote count in time (but not space):

Vote Count, Day 5

hiphop ( 2 ) - idiotking - popsofctown
shotty to the body ( 1 ) - Pads
fhqwhgads ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 2 ) - SpyreX - fhqwhgads
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 1 ) - hiphop
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 0 )
Unvote ( 3 ) - Shotty to the Body - Sotty7 - RedCoyote
Total Votes ( 9 )

With 9 alive, 5 needed for a majority.
Deadline is December 23rd, 11am EST