New York 180 (Endgame)

[SilverWolf]

Hm, I think your internet is fine now Wolf.
Just pointing that out.

Thanks for the feedback.

[SilverWolf]

I'm not going to play outguess the mod. It never works, wastes time, and doesn't contribute to scumhunting in any real way.

[SilverWolf]

dragon-tell me why you outed this now?

[SilverWolf]

dragon-tell me why you outed this now?

We need more info. The town is getting killed by the scum. Transparency is the best way we are going to catch them.

Is it just you and oz or is there a third member?

And you decided not to let me decide when the best time to reveal was because?

[SilverWolf]

OK, That's all I needed to know.

VOTE: dragonspawn

[SilverWolf]

If I'm scum what's my reason for outting you?

I think this sentence above is very telling. You want to look town. You outed information you have been holding onto all game because you wanted to look like you were helping town.

It came specifically at at time you were being questioned for your terrible GM push by a few people and being told you weren't doing anything. Rather than answer the questions and explain yourself better, you decided to divert attention off of yourself onto me and Ozgin by outing this information now instead of letting us do it.

It's the timing of it that bothers me dragon and the motivation behind you doing it that bugs me.

I also see scum wanting to know about these things as well as town. I was hard townreading you and defending you to GM and Aero specifically because of the way you handled the crumbing House did.

Neither one of us cares that this info. is out there but your reasoning and timing for it sucks and is scummy dragon.

[SilverWolf]

Oh and look, you created a distraction.

Good job!!

[SilverWolf]

So did house tell you why he crumbled to begin with?

Yes, He said if you were town you'd keep your mouth shut and if you were scum you'd manipulate his crumbing.

I'll let you decide which one I thought you did.

[SilverWolf]

Not sure how I feel about dragon's outing of the neighbors, but I'm not sure why it's as blatantly scummy as people are trying to imply? I think it's bad play, but like.. I'm not sure I understand how he's distracting from himself given that outing a PR is going to just draw attention back to himself? Unless I'm misunderstanding where people are coming from on that, in which case by all means, explain it to me.

Yeah, I'll outline this more later after dragon responds to what has been said already.


FYI to everyone else: Today is going to be a super busy day for me so if I'm not around much, that's why and I may not post much until tomorrow.

[SilverWolf]

Kitz: I haven't forgotten about your original big post either.

Also, I have some stuff posted in the hood on a couple people I need to get post links for and then post but there's this little matter of time!!

[SilverWolf]

Kitz: I haven't forgotten about your original big post either.

Also, I have some stuff posted in the hood on a couple people I need to get post links for and then post but there's this little matter of time!!

Relax wolf. Day just started.no one is going to rush a lynch

I'm going to use ika's patented tried and true scumhunting method here:

dragon-Are you scum?

[SilverWolf]

Kitz: I haven't forgotten about your original big post either.

Also, I have some stuff posted in the hood on a couple people I need to get post links for and then post but there's this little matter of time!!

Relax wolf. Day just started.no one is going to rush a lynch

I'm going to use ika's patented tried and true scumhunting method here:

dragon-Are you scum?

Why is what he said scummy and why aren't you following up on you thinking I'm suspicious?

I explained why he was scummy yesterday although I just now realize I quoted the wrong quote of his to ask him that question but I was in a hurry so whatever.

I never said I was suspicious of you. I said you, or anyone for that matter, should not be cleared due to go nowhere tracker results. That's pretty much all I said unless I'm missing something I need to be following up on with you. If so, quote it or spell it out because I'm super busy and not going to go looking for things right now.

[SilverWolf]

This game is confusing the fuck out of me right now. I don't know who the scum are and it's pissing me off.

I think dragon might be scum because of how he handled the neighbourhood business and the extremely shit case he's been pushing on GM plus dodging questions, etc. But up until recently I was townreading him so I really don't know for sure. I am townreading Aero and GM and if they want him dead, I feel like I can sort of trust that.

I also feel like this whole TSO, Shinobi, Marquis thing is all town in a way but then I realize how the scum in the game have been lynching town into the ground, admittedly with town's help but still, while not getting lynched themselves and therefore there has to be experienced players among the scumteam and maybe one of them is scum.

Then there's Kitz who is all kinds of WTF that I sometimes want to read as town and sometimes want to read as scum for it.

Ozgin I feel pretty good about being town. elusive is maybe town or town enough I'm not up for a wagon there

Cheetory's AtE is really bugging me and yes, I have examples but outside of that, his ISO doesn't look bad. However, that doesn't mean he isn't skilled scum and his vote on the FA wagon is bad.

Wake was scummy as shit and I have all those posts as well showing that. Marquis, I'm not sure. Sometimes he makes posts that make me go huh? with his weird voting and explanations for things. Then, he makes a few posts that feel very town to me so I'm confused.

I'll post the Cheetory and Wake posts as soon as I have time to copy and paste them and do the post links thing and I guess I'll answer Kitz's wall and then I want feedback on the posts I put here regarding Cheetory and Wake and take it from there.

[SilverWolf]

What about Aeronaut?

So far, a town vibe on Aero.

Do you think otherwise?

I'm open to other opinions on any one in the game because I kind of feel lost to be totally honest.

[SilverWolf]

Wolf I've been town reading you since the beginning of the game. I've got too many games right now. I'm not sure about oz.

Quite frankly I'm feeling burnt out tonight. I thought about subbing out but I don't want to be a dick to ika and don't like backing down from my commitments.

If you guys want to lynch me I understand. But I'm genuinely am town.

I feel like we are still in day 1 mode and not any closer.

OK, OK, don't sub out. Calm down. Let me just think about this for a minute. You freaked me out when you outed my neighbourhood. Just relax. I'm not screaming for your lynch or anything like that right now. We have plenty of time.

[SilverWolf]

What about Aeronaut?

So far, a town vibe on Aero.

Do you think otherwise?

I'm open to other opinions on any one in the game because I kind of feel lost to be totally honest.

I don't know. He's just kind of been here and I don't really see anyone talking about him much at all.

So...Why not Aeronaut?

Not sure, it's just kind of a townie vibe, kind of a little bit of gut but I'll admit I haven't looked into him a lot either. I would have to see a case or a post or something from someone showing he's scummy for me to look at I guess or re-ISO myself.

[SilverWolf]

i actually cannot see a scenario where he's been a townread/trusted as a voice of reason amid the vf/abr/math insanity for this long and is alive and town.

Well, I've been thinking this on a few people. Why are they still alive? But you have to remember scum have been taking out PR's every night and there has been a protect role alive for quite awhile now, so I'm inclined not to use this as a method for scumreading anyone at this point in the game.

[SilverWolf]

Why are people under the impression that there

has

to be one mafia in the experienced player group of Shinobi/TSO/Marquis?
Doesn't Aeronaut fall under that category as well or what?

Because I'm paranoid and feel like scum knows what they are doing this game and IMO you three along with probably GM and Cheetory have the most skill at the game. I'm not saying this is a for sure thing but it is something I am at least looking at.

Cheetory and Wake posts incoming next.

Kitz-I re-looked at your wall and all those points have been addressed

[SilverWolf]

I'm just going to post Cheetory and Wake posts that bug me and I'd like feedback one way or another on this because I can't decide between frustrated town or AtE/angry scum. Between town not having time to play or scum trying to get out of taking a stand.

Cheetory: 2542/2544 is AtE, 3903is more complaining now about game being boring, 4099 certain TSO is scum, 4113 and 4114 AtE, 4122-nobody cares AtE, 4124-it's all unfair AtE, 4188-MORE AtE, 4191-good lord the AtE is stiffling at this point, 4232-WTF? Suddenly TSO is NOT scum and FA looks good?, 4250-mockingly bad vote on FA
---------------------------------------------------

Wake got a lot more on:

1482-no time to play, 1580-attacks Ellie badly when she calls him scum for good reasons, 1634-makes excuses when dragon asks good questions about where he stands, 1728-admits to not voting at all, 1738-hostile reaction to me asking him to take a stand on something, 1743-hostile reaction to me not being able to read him due to his play, 1748-hostile reaction to me asking him to vote, 1757-more scumreading me for questioning him-this is when we are near the end of the day and need his vote and he's wasting time here, 1808-first part is very bad response to elusive's good point, 2628-flippant response about too much to read and saying he's going to blow off the game, 2642-asked questions on players and refuses to take a stand, 3057-hammers VF, 3406/3422-outs Math as vengeful who was killed overnight, 3578, 3579, 3582-ooc anger and refusal to give any sort of reads, 3590-calls me scum for trying to calm him down which is random because that was a friendship thing, not a game thing on my part at least

[SilverWolf]

I realize that Aero but I'm not ruling anything out when we are having a hard time figuring out scum, even if it seems like it shouldn't matter.

[SilverWolf]

What do you think about Marquis' play today?

I liked 4529 quite a bit.

What do you think of dragon's 4518?

Both of these posts are making me wonder if I am wrong to be scumreading them because dragon's seems genuine and Marquis' seems like those reads are pretty transparent and don't look fabricated at all.

So that's kind of why I'm re-thinking things and asking for input.

Cheetory's vote on the FA wagon is bad but most of his ISO doesn't look that bad except the things I pointed out.

I'm obviously conflicted on most of my reads.

[SilverWolf]

You're one of the people who knows dragon from that other site, right? Is this indicative of his regular town game? Or does it seem different?

Well, the not well explained votes is kind of what he does and is a playstyle thing for him I think.

The comments regarding boasting scum, town sure is failing, and I leave for a day and you rush a lynch-all that stuff is odd.

The beginning of his ISO looks fine and typical dragon but the stuff in the middle and up until the last two days is really not all that great, however even though I hated him outing the neighbourhood and how he did it, his play today seems a lot better.

I am going to dig deeper into his ISO and meta to see if I can figure this out when I have more time.

@ika-That's pretty cool!!

[SilverWolf]

Why TSO now Aero when you were so set on dragon?

[SilverWolf]

Won't lynch: Cheetory6, Aeronaut
Could lynch: Marquis, dragonspawn, SilverWolf
Would lynch: Shinobi, Ozgin, Kitz
Should lynch: T S O, elusive

This is kind of where my head is at right now.

Why do you think elusive is scum?

[SilverWolf]

I'm feeling especially paranoid right now and I need to re-think things and step back.

UNVOTE:

[SilverWolf]

RL is a super fucking bitch right now so I'll be stepping away from the game today.

[SilverWolf]

GM is town, I'm pretty sure of it. Feel the same way about Ozgin.

[SilverWolf]

(I'm aware that feels don't make someone town but, with Kitz' life on the line, why not take a chance?)

What does this mean?

I don't get it.

I forget about Kitz sometimes and frankly, that worries me quite a bit when I forget about a person in a game.

[SilverWolf]

GM is town, I'm pretty sure of it.

GM is borderline not playing this game at all - I feel twitchy and uncomfortable about that. Make her do things.

It's possible she's having the same issue as a lot of us are and having trouble articulating her reads?

[SilverWolf]

SilverWolf, can you summarise anything said you feel is alignment-relevant in your Neighbourhood to here? Ooba, if you think she misses anything, feel free to add it in.

Well, it's 14 pages long and has over 330 posts in it so I'll re-look at everything again to refresh my memory. I was scumreading House in the beginning because he was so reserved and then started townreading him when he started engaging me, giving reads, building cases, etc. Ozgin has been doing the same thing which is why I think he's likely town.

I mean, I'll re-look again, but I sure don't see anything suspicious or I would of outed it here.

[SilverWolf]

So dragon, I noticed once the pressure came off you, you haven't come back to post.

Aero-I still don't understand how you switched your vote when you were so set on dragon. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. At least give me a case on TSO. Is he aggressive as scum?

Kitz-your vote looks like a great big pile of OMGUS and you used that no fear of dying shit on me too and it's stupid. You have no idea who is safe and who isn't unless you are scum yourself.

GM-I would like you to at least try to explain your list of reads a little bit, I feel like you are not going to be lynched and you are using it to your advantage.

VOTE: Cheetory

I feel like your AtE this game has been out of proportion to what the game really calls for and I don't feel like you ever made a decent case on FA. Your interactions with TSO are bizarre at best. I think you haven't been looked at as much as some of the others and you need to be.

FoS: Kitz for your selective quoting of me earlier in the thread, picking out people you feel are safe which is ridiculous and basically being UTR for a good part of the game especially recently, your OMGUS of Shinobi, and your lack of committed opinions until now.

FoS: Dragon, for outing my neighborhood under pressure, slacking off in his play, not giving good reasons behind his votes, and disappearing when the pressure is off.

OK, Let's see if this breathes some life back into the game.

[SilverWolf]

Also, Ozgin please give us more opinions and answer my question in the hood please. I know you are extremely busy and I get that so just do what you can.

elusive-welcome back, I'd love to hear from you again

[SilverWolf]

I already told you everything in your wall of text is answered and Math was killed because Wake outed her as a venegful townie it the thread. Wake was very scummy which I also pointed out. There's also a doc in this setup which could of been saving people and/or a BP protection going on.

[SilverWolf]

I'd actually like someone who knows Shinobi better than me explain him if they can. His recent activity in the game looks o.k. to me and not scummy but before that I was pretty neutral on him. He's a hard read for me as is TSO. Both of those are very difficult reads for me.

[SilverWolf]

Scum would not want Math to be lynched if she's vengeful. It was pretty obvious she wanted to be lynched for a reason and Jester isn't possible. I do agree it's weird she's the kill because she said she was BP with a post restriction but she also said she could screw them over if she is lynched and was begging for it.

I really don't know why she was killed. Trying to read too much into why scum do what they do is just chasing our tails and running in circles sometimes due to the WIFOM involved.

[SilverWolf]

Scum would not want Math to be lynched if she's vengeful.

Let's see... What makes Scum super-scared?
Is there an obvious slip that Math could have seen?
Why isn't the scummy others a viable option?
What's the chance of (L/M)YLO if she targeted a town?

If we answer correctly, we might see potential players who'd be scared.

OK, How about this? I don't have time now but we re-look at the Math posts interactions and see how people reacted to her and see if that tells us anything.

I'm not expecting much but who knows? Maybe there will be a clue that will help us.

I'm kind of frustrated with this game because I honestly feel like I have no clue who the scum are or how to find them at this point. I also get paranoid when people start changing their votes or reads for no reasons that I can really see.

So yeah, with a lead to chase, that might help me mellow out some. I'll look into it later when I have more time.

[SilverWolf]

The other thing I'm putting out there is, in a role heavy setup (?) is it possible mafia have a doctor and therefore vig kill isn't going through because of that? Considering we had two?

It is possible that scum have another PR besides RBer but there is really no way to know for sure. I'm not sure if we have a vig or if we do, if it was just one shot or what.

Set-up spec, outguess the mod-probably won't get us anywhere.

[SilverWolf]

I still believe GM to be town.

[SilverWolf]

Because she played a lot like this in my only game with her when she was town.

[SilverWolf]

Here's the reason Shinobi gave for a Kitz lynch. Does it make sense to you guys?

I've also explained that killing Kitz would be grand because she keeps calling me mafia for little to nothing, and it seems like she keeps coming up with excuses to scumread me. She's been on about lynching me since day 1 and hasn't really ever gotten to it nor has she had any interest in questioning me.

[SilverWolf]

GM is town, I'm pretty sure of it. Feel the same way about Ozgin.

I agree with this pretty much. I don't see a world where GM is scum this game, really.

Me either. I'm with you on this read. I'm pretty much town on you and GM and to a lesser extent Ozgin and elusive (they need to post more). Shinobi and TSO I'm going to be honest and say I really can't figure out and may have to trust others with reading them. I do have some problems with some of the others for various reasons but I think I've touched on all of that already.

I won't let us NL so that is something to keep in mind in who I vote for as well.

TSO does indeed need to clear up some of his inconsistencies regarding his reads on GM and Marquis in particular.

[SilverWolf]

Also, the TSO-Shinobi-Marquis-Cheetory interactions all seem very, very dramatic. More so than is necessary to be honest and I don't know what to make of it.

[SilverWolf]

I'd like to not lynch people who are trying to play. The apathy is killing this game and is perfect for scum. I realize some are on V/LA and are not included but still. I have no clue how to move this game forward at this point. I'm willing to listen to any ideas.

[SilverWolf]

OK, I tried doing an ISO and meta dive on T S O and my head hurts trying to figure him out. I'm going to trust you guys know his play better than me and can help me with that read. Same with Shinobi.

[SilverWolf]

@Ozgin-Please see neighbourhood-OK, thanks.

[SilverWolf]

dragonspawn: Aeronaut

Cheetory6: dragonspawn, SilverWolf
Shinobi: Cheetory6, kitz
TSO: marquis, Aeronaut
marquis: TSO

Shinobi: goodmorning

goodmorning: Shinobi

Not voting: goodmorning, Ozgin, elusive

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch

(expired on 2015-04-06 00:00:00)

I'm fixing this for ika because I know he was tired and cranky last night. Added in non voters and deadline to help us as well.

[SilverWolf]

Ugh................................Is this really going to become a choice between Marquis and T S O?

Night kills-There were plenty of outed PR's for scum to pick from, they could of hit a BP as I keep saying, someone else could of been protected by the doc that scum wanted to kill as well.

[SilverWolf]

Roles which are explicitly Normal include:
Vanilla Townie, Sane Cop, Doctor, Vigilante, Roleblocker, Mason, Innocent Child, Jailkeeper, Tracker, Watcher, Gunsmith, Miller, Bodyguard, Role Cop, Doublevoter, Hider, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Jack of All Trades, Serial Killer, Mafia Encryptor, Mafia Strongman, Mafia Goon, Mafia Traitor, Mafia Godfather, Mafia-aligned or SK-aligned versions of above roles
Modifiers which are explicitly Normal include:
Even/Odd Night, Non-Consecutive Night, X-Shot, Bulletproof, Neighbor, Compulsive, Macho, Weak, Backup (with or without primary role present)
Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Non-Sane Cop, Blank Vig, Non-Sane or Quack Doctor, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Mafia Mason, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector, Framer.
Modifiers which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
N/A
Normal Games may use any amount of approved roles (so long as there is at least one Vanilla Townie) in conjunction with approved modifiers.
New/variant roles may be included in limited number (no more than 1 in a Mini, 2 in a Large), and should be based on the usual role mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Blocking, Voting, Enabling and Communication.

[SilverWolf]

There is no way town has a cop, a deputy, a tracker, 2 non-consecutive docs, a vengeful, a full BP, and a vig. I don't give a rip how powerful the scumteam is.

[SilverWolf]

OTOH-a vig with X-shot would explain all those kills N1.

Ugh.............................again.

[SilverWolf]

I'll ISO Marquis. Wake was really scummy and his ISO was bad. Marquis looked better than Wake. But I'll take a look again at them both.

[SilverWolf]

I have 4 votes on me. The only one that's even remotely justified is GM's.

Christ.

Nobody fucking cares what you think about the interactions or how they matter at all. Kitz is voting me for bullshit as of right now and she was on the exact same spot on your lynch list as I was, and it didn't seem to bother you at all.

Kitz is voting for Marquis, the only person voting for you is Cheetory.

[SilverWolf]

Aero-read again at what he's claiming.

[SilverWolf]

Aero, buddy...................

[SilverWolf]

Kitz, vote Marquis.

Hmm, my condition for that vote is that you post a reads-list of everyone currently alive chronologically.

VOTE: Marquis

VOTE: Shinobi

Based on this just recent behavior.

P-Edit :
What was the deleted post?

Please explain both these votes in more detail Kitz.

[SilverWolf]

OK, So you weren't scumreading Marquis?

TSO-all your posts are there and still visible. I'm not going to quote them right now GM, Cheetory, Marquis all commented on it as well.

[SilverWolf]

I'm afraid you won't actually be able to get it, little man - I have something which makes me 100% town, and you don't, though I'd really rather not reveal it unless I have to.

I don't believe you.

Yes, I know you want to try to force my hand into revealing it and feed scum the information - I have no intentions of doing it.

The reason I think that it's possible that NS absorbed my kill is that there are missing scum kills, and I see no way for them to disappear unless NS blocked them. Furthermore, he most definitely knows the calibre of my town game - a few months ago, as town, I caught his scumpartner in his first post d1. I strongmanned the lynch through, before we went on to lynch NS the same day and win in 15 pages.(It was a Double Dip mechanic.) I don't see who NS would protect here over me, to be arrogant.

I clicked through and saw that it was just Hopkirk? Come on, man, he's often lynchbait-y anyway. Try catching AP in one post, then you'll have a story.

None of these things matter - the fact remains I nailed Hopkirk d1, and NS saw this. NS was not in that game you linked and didn't see your play.

Anyway, NS is familiar enough with my play that he knows I'm occasionally underestimated. Like the time I got Scum-him lynched as a 3p and went on to win.

Well, yeah, but it should also be said that everyone appeared to have you pegged as scum that game. zMuffin was screaming it, DeathNote was also saying it. And this was in 5p LyLo. You still won, which is what matters, but I don't feel it would install the level of fear in NS required to protect you over me.

Even though I know you're scum and so I shouldn't care about it, I still feel kinda bad about being so brashly arrogant. It's just I'd prefer to seem arrogant and get scum lynched rather than be coy and modest and let you manipulate people because of it.

It's not like Town-you is the only person Scum would try to kill (unless I was Scum, see my last post). See the various claimed PRs etc.

The night I am specifically talking about is n3. MathBlade was not the scumkill.

Since Deputy is technically 'Backup Cop,' I'd say probably.

p-edit: ZMuffin was screaming it because I kept stealing the ring back from him and he was pissed.

If you're saying Math was killed by Town, then you're an idiot, unless you're claiming that you're a Vig who shot her, in which case you're still an idiot but for different reasons.

I'm not particularly interested in manipulating anyone. That's not characteristic of either my towngame or my scumgame.

There is no way town has a cop, a deputy, a tracker, 2 non-consecutive docs, a vengeful, a full BP, and a vig. I don't give a rip how powerful the scumteam is.

OTOH-a vig with X-shot would explain all those kills N1.

Ugh.............................again.

Stop your fucking set-up spec. Even if you think you know it, speculating on it has no benefit to anyone if you are town.

If you're scum, keep on speculating.

:/
Can you say whether you were one of the kills on N1?
I have a hard time seeing scum fakeclaiming vig in a game which I'm pretty sure has one based on N1.

god how i wish i was scum this game because then tso's characterization of me would be something i'd so enjoy doing

i'll be back later today. tso, i want a fullclaim. stop beating around the bush and trying to be coy with it, because if you're actually town at this point scum are probably the only ones who know what you're constantly alluding to

[SilverWolf]

OK, So you weren't scumreading Marquis?

Nope.

So you voted for someone you weren't scumreading.

OK then...................................

[SilverWolf]

No, but I thought I actually claimed, SilverWolf. As in, I didn't make the claim based on insinuation - I outright said it in one post.

I can't find that one either.

[SilverWolf]

Pisskop kill makes sense from a vig standpoint but mathblade does not.

Please explain it.

pedit: I'm liking you less and less Marquis, your reaction to this claim is scummy

[SilverWolf]

bulletproof vig

or bulletproof sk

hmmm

I claimed the Doctor was on me, I never claimed Bulletproof.

lmao

"You have been protected by the Doctor."

"You have lost your Bulletproof vest/shot."

which of those actually appears in normal games now

Elaborate on these posts Marquis.

I have to go out for awhile. I'll be back later.

[SilverWolf]

@Marquis

, do you really think TSO wouldn't be worried about a counterclaim if he was some kind of scum fakeclaiming right now? Like, even if he was the SK, wouldn't the vig just counterclaim him and he'd be fucked? I feel like his course of actions here just doesn't make sense as scum and if he's lying he's fucked anyway.
I don't get how you're seeing this situation any other way?

My problem with this is that I can't see a way in which we verify this.

See above.

[SilverWolf]

There were 3 shots N1-only makes sense with a vig really. Especially Pisskop's death.

[SilverWolf]

Then why the hell are there three kills

We've been trying to figure that out since the beginning of the game. Boon was killed, VF was shot but protected, pisskop was killed. Pisskop being a vig kill makes sense, VF was RB'd-I'm sure by the mafia and was also attacked-who knows by whom, Boon was killed and again-who knows by whom. One of Boon or VF was likely a mafia kill/attempt but the other one-who the hell knows? Second scum team? SK? If so, why only one kill a night since then? Did NS block every kill? Is there a BP out there. Does vig have a modifier (don't answer this, it's just speculation)

Who the hell knows?

[SilverWolf]

Just a curious thing.
Why T S O over Wolf?

Do you ever see it possible to lynch Wolf?
Nope. Free townie roaming about.

WTF are you talking about?

[SilverWolf]

SW one a scale of 1-10 how much do you believe this claim as of right now?

Probably a 7 and that's only because so many have fakeclaimed this game.

I think due to the kills N1, there has to be a vig. He did quote where he thinks math should be vig killed. If no one cc's, then he's probably telling the truth. And also, this comment makes me think it isn't a good fakeclaim for scum.

@Marquis

, do you really think TSO wouldn't be worried about a counterclaim if he was some kind of scum fakeclaiming right now? Like, even if he was the SK, wouldn't the vig just counterclaim him and he'd be fucked? I feel like his course of actions here just doesn't make sense as scum and if he's lying he's fucked anyway.
I don't get how you're seeing this situation any other way?

[SilverWolf]

However, a mathblade kill makes much MORE sense if you're a serial killer, because of that same reason

Aero-are you proposing we lynch him anyway despite his claim?

[SilverWolf]

I don't know anymore.

I feel like leaving him alive is going to be a terrible decision. Because say we have 3-4 scum remaining, if we mislynched today and he and scum both shoot town, we're endgamed.

But what if T S O is a mislynch and scum shoots town? We come back here at 9 players and if there are 3 or 4 scum left alive that could be lylo right there potentially. But if T S O does not shoot town but hits scum, that helps us a lot.

[SilverWolf]

He better not be shooting GM.

T S O-Is that your plan?

[SilverWolf]

At best I can argue that she wouldn't be this blatantly bad as scum, but even then shooting her is still fun.

Why do you say things like this?

[SilverWolf]

Isn't elusive claiming something? Is she still playing or did I miss that?

Yes and yes.

[SilverWolf]

I don't believe I called it scum but I didn't like it.

Perhaps Aero and elusive will explain it to you tomorrow.

[SilverWolf]

I'm leaning town on Marquis but Wake was so darn scummy that I'm conflicted in that read tbh.

[SilverWolf]

I'm actually extremely worried about both elusive and Ozgin because they've both pretty much withdrawn from the game and I really don't like that at all.

[SilverWolf]

I'm actually extremely worried about both elusive and Ozgin because they've both pretty much withdrawn from the game and I really don't like that at all.

Aren't you in like a hood with him? Reach out or something

Also, looking at his on-site posting, his absence is pretty universal. So idk what's up there

I've done that twice now at least and even asked him to check there here in this thread. I realize people get busy and have lives and I know elusive was on V/LA but neither one of their comments lately, when they have posted, are anything like they were earlier in the game.

And I feel like the more active people are going after each other while they are kind of coasting, IMO.

[SilverWolf]

What I said is that town players like Wolf is still alive.
If I was Scum, I'd target Wolf so that the whole game disrupted with less trusted players and way more confusion. (If I didn't see a PR, obviously)
For the same anti-reason, if I was a doctor I target her as well.
certain players being still alive, it makes me suspicious of them.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm............................................

[SilverWolf]

Kitz-That is an extremely dangerous way to look at any game. Mafia will also defend and protect low hanging fruit to get them to say what exactly you just did. Trying to pass yourself off as some easy target for scum is also not something I will listen to when anyone does it. I've seen it used by scum as a tactic in other games and none of us are complete newbs.

That said, I agree with you about TSO. I don't see a scenario where I will go along with lynching him today.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Shinobi

Yeah, no.

elusive-Can you please flesh out this vote for me and explain why you thin Shinobi is scum? I'm trying to understand where you are coming from.

[SilverWolf]

*thin=think

[SilverWolf]

Fine but you better be right TSO. You know Marquis better than me. I also don't like Wake due to 4543 and was voting Marquis yesterday so I'm going to go ahead with this now. I also don't want you shooting GM. Seriously, just don't.

VOTE: Marquis

[SilverWolf]

I'm not the vig.

Marquis-elusive is not the vig

There were 3 kill attempts N1-there has to be a vig, no one has cc'd TSO, so he's the vig.

[SilverWolf]

Just Ozgin and he's never given any indication that he's the vig.

[SilverWolf]

Hey guys, due to RL issues that almost caused me to quit all my games (I'm going to finish the 2 I'm already invested in) I will not be able to participate here as much for awhile. I don't think I'll need V/LA but we'll see.

Just an FYI.

[SilverWolf]

V/LA until April 3rd

Since that is so close to deadline, I'll try to check in as often as I can before then.

@mod

Please prod or replace Ozgin, thanks.

[SilverWolf]

Still V/LA, just wanted to confirm GM neighborized me and the neighbourhood opened D5.

Ozgin-The SK thing will resolve itself tomorrow. Try not to spend too much of what time we have left fighting about it today.

Also, welcome back neighbor!!

See you guys in a couple days, I'll try to pop in before then if I can.

[SilverWolf]

GM neighborized me. What do you want to know about it specifically?

[SilverWolf]

Marquis-I'll look that over and get back to you.

OK, Let's say that we mislynch today, worse case scenario and TSO vig kills town by mistake and scum kills town as well.

That puts us to 8 alive tomorrow, which if there are 4 scum left alive is a sure fire win for scum. I don't know if there are 3 or 4 right now. In a game like this I could see a 4 or 5 person scumteam. With town OP'd who knows? Anyone have experience with typical scumteam size in Large Normals?

So, given this, and without a real solid scum lead, should we consider a NL or am I being dumb?

With the way my mind is right now, you will not insult me if you think I'm being an idiot. But perhaps a NL would be best now?

Then, worse case scenario, vig misfires, scum kills, that brings us to 9 tomorrow which could be a lylo situation but not an auto-loss because pisskop was killed and there is no way I'm going to believe a 6 person scumteam.

We have 4 days until deadline. Input, ideas?

[SilverWolf]

Shinobi: Cheetory6, goodmorning, kitz, elusive [l-2]
TSO: marquis
marquis: TSO, dragonspawn, SilverWolf [l-3]
goodmorning: Shinobi

Not voting: Ozgin, Aeronaut

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch

(expired on 2015-04-06 00:00:00)

Here's a VC.

[SilverWolf]

Shinobi-You've been calling Kitz scum for awhile now, even going so far as to say it would be fun to kill her here: 4600 and 4601 and these post show you were suspicious of her as well 4628 and 4682

It was all about her reads that you didn't like. Then today suddenly you completely changed your mind and said she's town here 5169 and 5195.

But her reads have been like that all game so why suddenly is she town for having weird reads when you've been pretty sure she's scum up until recently?

[SilverWolf]

I really don't believe Aero is scum. What in the world happened to make people suddenly believe that? Please give me a case here people so I can look at it. I'm only around in this game due to deadline coming up so please spell it out in words I can understand.

Marquis-Not that it matters now because we need to concentrate on a lynch, but I did read your scum neighborizer neighbourhood and I did see the manipulation you used there as scum. GM has not been manipulative in the slightest. I was very paranoid when she first neighborized me because I had been suspecting her before that but she has not tried to manipulate me and has not said anything in there I would associate with scum. Her reason for picking me made sense because she wanted to show herself to her townreads. She never once tried to get me to vote a certain way or try to sell herself as town to me-both of which I would expect from a scum neighborizer.

I really like Shinobi's answer to my question here 5335. It can across in a way that makes sense to me and combing through his ISO, I see a ton of frustration that looks genuine.

Still V/LA and going to have a hard time posting but I am concerned about the deadline looming.

Aero case from someone now please.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: aero

No point keeping it on marques at this point. I suspect aero. Seems like a good plan.

Tell me why you suspect Aero. I will look for it in your ISO but a updated/current reason would be great.

[SilverWolf]

I have yet to hear why goodmorning is town from her 'hood stuff. I want to know.

Marquis-Not that it matters now because we need to concentrate on a lynch, but I did read your scum neighborizer neighbourhood and I did see the manipulation you used there as scum. GM has not been manipulative in the slightest. I was very paranoid when she first neighborized me because I had been suspecting her before that but she has not tried to manipulate me and has not said anything in there I would associate with scum. Her reason for picking me made sense because she wanted to show herself to her townreads. She never once tried to get me to vote a certain way or try to sell herself as town to me-both of which I would expect from a scum neighborizer.

[SilverWolf]

Jesus, why isn't this one dead yet?

Because people aren't voting for him.

Since he's at L-2 I could put him at L-1, but I'm not letting someone get hammered for stupid reasons again.

It's nearing deadline. We need to come together on a lynch. I'm going to be very busy for awhile. I can hammer if you want to put Shinobi at L-1. I would of been fine with Marquis as I've explained it before but the person pushing hardest for it inexplicably switched to Aero and another sheeped. There's been a huge amount of resistance to Marquis lynch. The cases on Aero are weaksauce as hell. Then we have people like Cheetory who only stop by periodically, say a few things, then leave again and stay out of any of the main discussions/arguments going on. He's the very definition of coasting scum right now.

But whatever, this game is making me mad. I will be away for awhile. I'll check again tonight. The fact that some of my townreads want to lynch Shinobi and the fact that we are close to deadline and the Aero switch is suspicious as fuck, and that no one seemed to even want to talk about my NL idea, is enough for me to hammer this wagon.

So make up your mind Ozgin. I'll be back tonight.

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

Vote on Marquis is beyond stupid right now.

I need to examine both these wagons again.

No one hammer yet please, thanks.

[SilverWolf]

SilverWolf, can we have a X Time notification before a hammer?
Say you intend to hammer in like 30 minutes or an hour, we'd at least be notified and (somewhat) prepared, instead of a "yoink hammer BB M8".

Yes of course I will do that.

When I intend to hammer, I'll give a couple hours notice. I have some things I need to do and I need to re-examine these wagons.

We have 3 days. All I ask is no one hammer before I get a chance to do this first. I will give a MINIMUM of 2 hours notice.

Actually, with Cheetory's unvote, this makes me feel safer here.

[SilverWolf]

Shinobi: goodmorning, kitz, Aeronaut, Ozgin [L-2]
Aeronaut: Marquis, TSO, dragonspawn, shinobi [L-2]

Not voting: elusive, Cheetory6, SilverWolf

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch

(expired on 2015-04-06 00:00:00)

[SilverWolf]

Shinobi: goodmorning, kitz, Aeronaut [L-3]
Aeronaut: Marquis, TSO, dragonspawn, shinobi, Cheetory6 [L-1]

Not voting: elusive, SilverWolf, Ozgin

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch

(expired on 2015-04-06 00:00:00)

Aero, re-looking at the game, and re-looking at the wagons, and re-looking at the time we have left, I don't see any other lynch happening but yours right now. You've had your chance to give your Shinobi case and you've given us your points on TSO. I would of preferred you spent that time giving us some reads and final thoughts on the gamestate to help us in the event you flip town.

TSO-Please keep in mind, if this is a mislynch, do not put us in a bad lylo situation with your shot. I do believe you are the vig due to N1 kills and no cc. The only way I would of been o.k. with you taking a shot, unless we were totally sure, is if we NL'd today but no one was interested in that and I can kind of see it I guess.

GM-You have an interesting point on elusive and it's something that should be explored. I find all these PR's to be inexplicable at this point.

Ozgin-Please make up your mind. I know I'm saying this to you a lot but it helps me if you take a stand on things like we've all had to do. Dragging this out does more harm than good at this point and will change nothing.

Please hammer Aero or I will.

[SilverWolf]

Intent to hammer

[SilverWolf]

Yay!!

[SilverWolf]

I really wanted to be town for you wolfy

Yeah, I need to re-evaluate all my damn reads now. :/

[SilverWolf]

People-do not trust anything scum says in twilight or any crap Aero's trying to pull now.

Telegraphing our plans to scum is not great either in regards to reads, etc right now because it gives them kill targets.

TSO-use your best judgement on your kill shot, do not narrow it down and tell scum who you are going to shoot.

[SilverWolf]

Twilight is the time for vampires right?

[SilverWolf]

I knew you guys would like that one.

[SilverWolf]

Not sure why it matters. Wolf is team jacob

That goes without question I prefer the wolves over the vampires.

But he's hot anyway.........................oh yeah.

[SilverWolf]

Hey, At least I'm not posing shirtless pics of these guys. Don't think I don't have some ya know.

[SilverWolf]

Hmmmmmmm................................................Something's off here. The mafia must of shot elusive is the only thing I can figure but if you shot GM T S O, she should be dead now.

[SilverWolf]

Or they No Killed but I don't know why they'd do that and it doesn't excuse the fact you say you shot GM and she's still alive.

I wish I had more time today but I'm busy.

[SilverWolf]

It depends on the set-up. With a goon dead that might happen. Sometimes the mod doesn't allow the mafia to kill and use an ability at the same time. If the ones that are left all have abilities they want to use, and that's part of the rules, then I guess......................................

I'm kind of baffled right now to be honest. This game has confused the crap out of me so many times, I don't even know any more.

[SilverWolf]

If GM has neighborized again, that person should confirm it again today.

[SilverWolf]

Is it possible for vig to be RB'd and scum to have 2 people who can RB? I'd normally say no but this game.....................................

[SilverWolf]

If it's multiball, 2 2 man scumteams would be seriously underpowered with all the town PR's because then scum would be able to kill the other team unless there's some rule that says they can't and that defeats the purpose of multiball.

No, I meant 2 RBrs, not 2 vig. We already figured out, there's not 2 vig. There's just no way.

I will admit, I'm confused and have no clue. I'm lost this game. Ready to sheep anyone who has an idea that makes sense.......................

[SilverWolf]

Could be.......................maybe a scum doc protect? But that would mean she lied about being a neighborizer or is a scum neighborizer who was protected by a scum doc. I would normally dismiss that but in this game, I'm now willing to believe almost anything at this point.

GM posting will help and so will anyone confirming they were neighborized. My neighborhood with GM is now closed.

[SilverWolf]

Wouldn't a Scum Neighborizer with a Scum Doc justify the amount of power to the town?

Normally, I'd say this isn't possible but in this game........................it could be.

Scum should of taken aim at GM last night. She may be a weak PR but she's still a claimed PR. So why didn't they? And why did T S O's shot miss her?

[SilverWolf]

I would say no, but I'm going to let others talk this out.

Hopefully, someone can think of something. I'm lost.

I'll be back later.

[SilverWolf]

Vig kill wouldn't happen every night either.........................

[SilverWolf]

What if Mafia targeted TSO and TSO targeted GM, GM bulletproof scum neighborizer and TSO bulletproof SK?

Anything's possible at this point.

This game........................................

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: elusive

Sheeping someone who makes sense.

[SilverWolf]

elusive-You were one of my top townreads but you haven't been here and I'm not talking about your V/LA. I'm talking about your town participation. I haven't seen it in a long time. Your main contribution D5 was fighting with Shinobi. You had voted Shinobi, then unvoted, showed up again to fight with him, then just kind of disappeared when the actual lynch occurred. And that's just one example of how I haven't seen the town elusive I'm used to. You insist you are practically conftown yet I've not seen you act like it. And your role, if town, would tell me this set-up is broken in favor of town unless scum has nearly supernatural powers at this point. Especially with Aero being a goon. This is why I went along with a vote on you.

You coming in here and assuming everyone voting for you is scum is really not a town reaction that I'd hoped for. Your analysis of Aero is flawed as well. He's posted 436 times and you only found 3 quotes worth commenting on? Your other stuff tells us very little because it's selective. I can already tell you several things you missed with your second analysis because I remember them. Yet you left them out.

I put a detailed pisskop ISO and vote history here and was asked why I bothered by Cheetory and GM said VCA's were a waste of time this game. You are assuming no one is going to ISO Aero but you are wrong. I am doing that, but it takes a long fucking time and I don't want shitty comments that make me feel like I wasted my time doing it when I do finish it.

[SilverWolf]

Also elusive, there's several things you could of done that would of helped me:

A) quote where you crumbed your role to mathblade, for the longest time I though you were the vig and I'm not the only one

B) quote the link to the game you are talking about regarding Marquis

C) use all relevant content when you discuss an interaction via ISO, stick only to those still alive-for example, you said Aero was defending me as town yet there was a point where House voted him for changing it to null, you said Aero was for a Marquis lynch BUT he resisted it like crazy AND marquis was one of the biggest pushers of the Aero lynch along with TSO but you left that out. Also, please include all relevant post links as well because that helps me look and see what you are talking about.

[SilverWolf]

elusive-You telling me to fuck off means I have zero to day to you for the rest of the game.

Being a fucking bitch will get you nowhere with me and my vote stays.

Fuck off!!

[SilverWolf]

day=say

[SilverWolf]

Fuck of SilverWolf....that kind of bullshit ATE doesn't work with me.

LOL, she's voting me now because I said fuck off, that's real town play. LMAO.

It isn't AtE. It's you pissing me off because you responded to me being very reasonable to you with a fuck off comment and saying you don't give a fuck what I have to say. If that's a town response then someone just kill me now. And I'm not voting you because of that, I told you why I was voting you and instead of responding to it, you acted like a fucking bitch, so that is why my vote stays because all you have fucking done in this game for a long fucking time is act like an aggro bitch and you can hang scumbag.

[SilverWolf]

Calling me bitch repeatedly, not cool and also disgusting from you.

Is it any worse than you responding to very reasonable comments and a reach out from me with a fuck off and I don't give a fuck what you have to say?
Maybe you should not try to piss me off and swearing at me and I'll stop telling you exactly like what you are acting like.
If you want to work with town, you start by working with town. Not by being nasty because that shit doesn't fly with me AT ALL. I will not tolerate if from you or anyone else.

Period.

[SilverWolf]

SilverWolf, I've seen enough of your play to know that you are taking a fuck off into overdrive. It's really pathetic play. You called me out on being VLA which has been across games which is also really shitty to do. Then you repeatedly called me a bitch. So who's the disgusting individual right now? You are.

Nope, Go back and read my post. I said it had nothing to do with your V/LA. I considered my reasoning very respectful and reasonable and I gave you an example. I also reached out to you and tried to get you to work with me. I've never sworn at you or told you to fuck off or I don't give a fuck what you think so why in the world do you think that's o.k. to do to me? Then I tell you what I think of your behavior and you try to get me kicked out of the game for it. In no way is that acceptable to me. Never has been, never will be. You cannot treat people however the fuck you feel like treating them and then get upset when you get some back. That's not how it works. Respect is earned and if you treat me like crap, do not expect me to give you any respect because you don't deserve it.

[SilverWolf]

I don't question people's RL nor do I use it as a reason to vote them. It's a shitty thing to do.

I never once brought up your RL or your V/LA not one time so this is just a flat out lie. Here's what I said, perhaps you should read it again.

elusive-You were one of my top townreads but you haven't been here and

I'm not talking about your V/LA.

I'm talking about your town participation. I haven't seen it in a long time. Your main contribution D5 was fighting with Shinobi. You had voted Shinobi, then unvoted, showed up again to fight with him, then just kind of disappeared when the actual lynch occurred. And that's just one example of how I haven't seen the town elusive I'm used to. You insist you are practically conftown yet I've not seen you act like it. And your role, if town, would tell me this set-up is broken in favor of town unless scum has nearly supernatural powers at this point. Especially with Aero being a goon. This is why I went along with a vote on you.

You coming in here and assuming everyone voting for you is scum is really not a town reaction that I'd hoped for. Your analysis of Aero is flawed as well. He's posted 436 times and you only found 3 quotes worth commenting on? Your other stuff tells us very little because it's selective. I can already tell you several things you missed with your second analysis because I remember them. Yet you left them out.

I put a detailed pisskop ISO and vote history here and was asked why I bothered by Cheetory and GM said VCA's were a waste of time this game. You are assuming no one is going to ISO Aero but you are wrong. I am doing that, but it takes a long fucking time and I don't want shitty comments that make me feel like I wasted my time doing it when I do finish it.

[SilverWolf]

I don't really care. Saying fuck off to someone is really different from calling them a bitch repeatedly. People say fuck off in these games regularly. I already made it clear in thread that I was busy so focusing on that seemed opportunistic. I really don't care what you have to say.

Do not twist what you said to me. You said fuck off and I don't give a fuck what you say. If I gave you reason to say that, I could understand it and I'd be o.k. with it. But you had no reason to talk to me that way and I do not tolerate that from people elusive. It is not o.k. no matter how many excuses you want to throw at it or how you want to twist it, you don't treat someone like that who has not said one disrespectful thing to you this game because I find that talk extremely toxic and damaging to games.

pedit: Once again I said IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR V/LA!!

[SilverWolf]

lol, so are you really upset at gm telling tso to fuck off? Or is that just towards you? It doesn't work that way. There are certain things that most players do which are considered acceptable and then there is what you did is start calling me a bitch repeatedly. Not only that but you aren't even aknowledging how according to your own standards that was disgusting on your behalf.

Since the whole issue is that I have been VLA or busy in RL and stated it in several places makes your pointing out my "participation" suspect and bad and therefore an argument not worth listening to.

What GM says to T S O is none of my business. I am sorry I said you were acting like a fucking bitch but you really pissed me off by attacking me for no good reason since I already said your V/LA was not an indicator in my vote for you and there was no reason to talk to me like that.

It's toxic elusive. It derails games. It causes massive drama and now the mod is probably going to replace or modkill us both because of it after months of work trying to figure this game out.

Hope it was worth it.

[SilverWolf]

Telling someone to fuck off is extremely different from calling them a bitch. If you aren't able to distinguish that then really I see the point made by others about your playstyle.

fuck off
phrasal verb of fuck
1.
(of a person) go away.

Vs. what you said.

I just apologized for it elusive but I was talking about what you were "acting like"

You are not the only one dealing with RL issues and you not only said to fuck off but you said you don't give a fuck what I have to say when I did not say one thing to you to deserve that kind of talk. It simply is not o.k. with me.

If that's acceptable to you, to talk to people that way in games, who are not doing anything to you to deserve it, then I don't want anything to do with that.

pedit: Don't worry kitz, I've said my piece. I've got nothing more to say here. I'm done.

[SilverWolf]

Tell me to f. Off all you want. Doesn't phase me.

Can I call you a bitch?

[SilverWolf]

You can call me anything though I'm not sure my wife would approve:)

Yikes!! Anything but that...................................

[SilverWolf]

goodmorning: kitzs, elusive
elusive: marquis, shinobi, silverwolf

@ika

Please give us a new deadline timer for today that takes into account the new day/new deadline. I would do it but I'd rather the first one came from the mod.

Thanks!!

[SilverWolf]

I'm not voting for Ozgin T S O and elusive is scum. Period.

[SilverWolf]

You imply you are vig, then say you are BP, and have now changed it to commuter-seeing as how we have had waaaaaaay too many PR's for town this game and so many people fakeclaiming and whatnot, I'm a little skeptical.

Then your aggro/defensive reply to my explanation for my vote on you in 5646 and 5648, plus the rest of your aggro/defensive behavior is reminding me of my last newbie game I was an IC in. Newbie 1577: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=60734

Jake was scum in that game and Narninian voted him for an empty post. He went after him hard in an extremely aggressive/defensive manner that totally reminded me of your play towards me yesterday minus any swearing.

In was so similar it was uncanny. Jake even got upset because he was V/LA even though Narninian said repeatedly that's not the reason he voted him.

And frankly, your continued comments about shitty players and shitty posts and referencing talking to people post game about ongoing games, etc. just means you are going to continue to be a toxic presence in this game any time anyone says anything you don't like.

I honestly don't see town trying to divide town by being nasty. I really don't. I can see getting angry once in awhile but right now, I'm at the point where I hesitate to say anything to you because of how insulting you are and to me, that's a perfect scum defense. Be so nasty to town that they don't want to go after you or deal with your nasty behavior and insults. Some people may deal with that better than me, but I refuse to. I simply won't.

But I think I've laid out plenty of reasons to be scumreading you right now so you can either continue to swear and call me a shitty player and whatever else you have to do to make yourself feel better but I'm quite happy with my vote.

[SilverWolf]

The way my force replace was handled was absolutely terrible. I let off some steam in the dead PT and was kicked out. I am very, very resentful of what happened. For several reasons I am upset about it. No mod should ever threaten another player with blacklisting. I was never warned about insulting anyone so that's a lie. Elusive got away with all her nasty shit and was only modkilled because she brought up an ongoing game. Both of us were left in the game after I said she was acting like a bitch and my force replace took me by complete surprise. Especially after ika put that note in there saying insults like fuck off and such that elusive was doing was o.k. but bitch wasn't. He wouldn't even talk to me. Had Titus do it.

After elusive's last post to me, I probably would of replaced out but I was worried I would be modkilled if a replacement wasn't found and I didn't want to damage the scumteam like that.

Anyway, GC-thank you for replacing in.

[SilverWolf]

FWIW I think you played really well when you were alive silver.
Like. I'm actually still shocked that you were scum because I was constantly trying to work my way around the fact that I thought you were obvtown. q.q

Thank You Cheetory. I really think I was able to be so obtown because I didn't know who any of the scum were so I had to hunt them as well but for different reasons. I also did have any associative tells or the like because they didn't know who I was either.

I have to say, I've never been this townread as scum, ever.

I will say also that I knew Oz was scum. But rather than tell him who I was, I just shared scummy things with him like talking about who I thought the PR's were, who I thought would be NK'd, etc.

I mean, I was pretty scummy in there compared to my hood with GM.

[SilverWolf]

*did not have any associative tells except neighbor tells with Ozgin*

[SilverWolf]

My biggest worry was the fact that I too obvtowned the slot because I couldn't be killed by scum and they already shot me one night. So continuously staying alive was a concern of mine.

[SilverWolf]

BTW Cheetory-Your play last two days was very impressive.

And Aero, you looked pretty town as well.

Good job scumteam.

pedit: Cheetory-I really wish there was some way I could of signaled you guys. It sucked that you had to waste a NK on me so close to the end of the game, I would of told Ozgin but where I play, neighborhoods are random so while I was 90% sure he was scum, I didn't want to take a chance just in case

[SilverWolf]

Also, Vikingfan-I totally believed you were the cop. You really did come off as genuine and if I would of been town, I would of defended you more. I also would of pushed House more as well. And I would not have pushed KC so hard. And when Aero was lynched I thought he was town and Shinobi was scum. Also, Marquis, you were pretty obvious town as well and I only pushed you and used Wake's play as an excuse because I figured there was no way you were scum. And Kitz, you were extremely impressive this game. You were the only one who correctly called me out for being alive still.

Thanks again guys. Before all the ugliness went down, it was fun. I hope to see most of you in future games.

[SilverWolf]

Oh and Ozgin's vig claim came about because I asked him the PT how he knew T S O was SK. So he said he was vig. It would of been so much better if we could of talked openly there. I really thought T S O was scum for awhile which is why I went along with him in the game but once I figured he was SK-mostly due to Ozgin, I didn't have much time to deal with that and Oz's vig claim in the PT before the force replace occurred. I was thinking he should keep quiet about it because I was worried that what would happen and that it would get him lynched. Which it did.

Anyway, it's late. Good night all and good game!!

pedit: I thought he was town because he was spending so much time talking with me about the game and asking me about dragon's play offsite and it just seemed like he was interested in figuring things out and it kind of came off as genuine.

What's weird is in the neighbor PT, House told me to watch out for Aero's comment about how he is always town he made at the beginning of the game and how that's a scumtell of his.

LOL

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, the dead PT drama was nice because I was the only person kicked out over it but was not the only one acting up. Love how ika singled me out for that when I wasn't even doing anything at the time he removed me. Then said he took care of it. Uh-huh by targeting me again.

And the main reason I wasn't modkilled was because I never broke a site rule like NJ and elusive did.

I am seriously not trying to get pissed again because it simply is not worth it. I am moving on from this. I'll just avoid any games ika moderates in the future and leave it at that.

[SilverWolf]

And no, I do not think I was blameless here. I should not have said elusive was being a bitch. I would of been pissed regardless of alignment however. That had zero to do with it at all. And I should not have kept on in the dead PT like I did. I realize I behaved badly also. I feel like I was targeted specifically and that some of the methods-threats etc. were uncalled for considering I was pretty calm all game and it wasn't like I was being nasty all game or anything.

[SilverWolf]

#Edit :
#Wolf : Say sorry to Elusive and just forget this, please.

I did, in the game for the bitch comments which she ignored while continuing to insult me and bring up offsite stuff, other game stuff, and her personal feelings about me which I don't care about.

But yes, I have every intention of moving on from this. I'm sick of the drama tbh. I don't need it and either does anyone else.

Altho half of the alive players at the end called me bad at this game, lel.

I thought you played very well. You were fairly town all game and your willingness to sacrifice yourself at the end should of been a towntell.

Again, Cheetory played it well also.

GC did well for filling in so late but he kind of got a pass for being in a neighborhood with scum and for set-up spec stuff. You guys only thinking there was one scum left, etc. But he still played it well for replacing in late to a long game.

Really, everyone did very well this game overall.

[SilverWolf]

First and foremost, I know for a fact that ika is not the type of mod to threaten players but in fact the type of Mod to try to ask players calm down. He was very empathetic towards SilverWolf and tried to calm me down about her being a sensitive player.

Yet it happened. I was threatened with blacklist, modkill, and told the whole game almost ended and pretty much was made to feel it was all my fault. Plus I was the only one kicked out of the dead PT. The explanation given to the game was once again mostly put on me. I was also told to save these comments for post game which I am doing now. I'm not going to lie, but I'm not surprised you would try to twist it that way considering you don't really know anything about what happened.

Zero credibility there in trying to trash a Mods reputation instead of taking accountability for being a player that hypocritically promotes polite discourse in every game but as scum crossed lines in this one and tried to justify it. My invite to the Wake game was rescinded because of SilverWolf which I'm fine with because that's their prerogative and I only see approval for people I respect but trying to present yourself as a victim is absurd. Bad taste there all around.

I did take accountability for what I did wrong considering I just admitted where I went too far in a post I put here last night and apologized in game for comments but you are the one who refused and still refuses to take any responsibility for YOUR behavior. You crossed the line over and over with your crap and your in game @mod comments and I said it before, I'll say it again, it had zilch to do with my alignment. I would of been pissed regarless and I think I did pretty good at keeping it in until the end there. You really don't know me for shit so stop pretending you do. And I don't give a damn what you think of me. I'm pretty sure I've made that clear repeatedly.

And for the record, I considered ika and Titus friends before all this. I signed up for almost every game ika ran once I got here and Titus was one of the ones who taught me how to play this game. I have a ton of respect for them both as people and players even despite this little dust up I still like and respect them both a lot and I agree they are good people. I have done nothing but talk about what a good mod I think ika is as well before all this. But nice touch trying to twist it around when once again, you don't have a clue.

I don't decide who gets into Wake's game and who doesn't. I am not responsible for you not getting in. I never WotC'd you nor have I ever done that to anyone. Keep lying though if it makes you happy. I did make Wake aware of what happened here even though he should already know but that was for the sake of the game, the players in it, and him. I don't have any power to decide what happens as far as who get in games or not. I even specifically said to Wake that I was willing to spectate that one instead and told him this repeatedly. He's his own person. I don't control what he does.

[SilverWolf]

How did you out yourself as a traitor?

I'm hoping the neighborhood PT gets released because I guess he told Ozgin in there.

[SilverWolf]

It was fun force claiming for Oz. Though tbf I thought a cc of TSO would get TSO lynched, not myself/Oz, so initially I was going to play it as bumbling replacee just trying to help out his good neighbor pal upon TSO's flip.

Yay, replacements having no context of timing!

---

I thought Oz was vig or SK. And an Oz-SK flip would make me look good, and an Oz-vig flip would at least make me helpful to scum.

An Oz-scum flip was lol and was probably the best possible outcome.

---

Also, persuading Oz to give up Cheet's name in the PT during twilight was awesome and made the game much easier on my end. tbf, I took the plunge first and outed myself as traitor, so it probably wasn't hard for Oz to believe me.

On a completely unrelated observation, Oz was lynched on 4/20.

---

I put in as much effort with this game as I would in any game where 200+ pages existed, regardless of my alignment/role. I enjoyed the fact that folks were complaining about my play based on how I replaced in, because I could make a lot of indignant noises about How Dare They Question My Replacing Strategy.

This was excellent strategy GC. Great job really!! I don't know if I would of pulled it off this way so for replacing into a large game, this was great.

[SilverWolf]

Wow GC, you did something I never had the courage to do. I would of loved to out myself to House/Ozgin but I just have a hard time trusting neighbors after what happened in an offsite game where I was put in a neighborhood with 3 scum and one buddied me all game. LOL

That was awesome to see though and yeah, most of the PT is House/Ozgin and I discussing the game. I did try hard to put who I thought was a PR and where I found the crumbs in there and also who I thought would get shot at night. I mean, I'm pretty sure I sounded a lot scummier than I did in my PT with GM. I'm hoping that one and hers/Aero's gets released as well.

Dragon-No, bussing Cheetory would of been a really bad move. Even if it would of meant GC could kill, it would mean he's the last scum.

[SilverWolf]

Mafia traitor can't be recruited. They tried to kill me but traitor can't be NK'd. Ozgin probably though I was BP or something, I'm sure not being able to kill me threw him for a loop since I never told him my role.

GM wasn't killed because she was away visiting me-she neighborized me so the MM couldn't reach her. Like a commuter.

[SilverWolf]

elusive-I don't have time to deal with your lies or your drama queen bullshit. You don't know anything about me or about things that were discussed when you were not present or how I play or why. Your desire to lie about it and lie about me tells me all I need to know about what kind of person you are though.

If you want to play in Wake's game go right ahead. I'm considering dropping out because I just found out my entire department was let go due to company restructuring and I have to look for another job. I have a young child to care for as well so my financial situation and my family is a hell of a lot more important that some damn game on the internet and some lying drama queen who thinks she knows me and doesn't know shit about anything but has no problem lying about it anyway.

Go fuck yourself elusive.

If anyone else besides elusive wants to discuss this with me, you can PM me and I'll be happy to talk about it. I'm not saying one more word about it here.

Enough is enough. I don't need this shit right now.

[SilverWolf]

Sooooo... I read the chats and yeah, good luck trying to read me. I'm weird and insane.

It is indeed sad though that no one listened to me. Can't wait to read the scum chat, want to see how much I messed up their brains.

I really had no idea how to deal with you when you kept saying I shouldn't be alive. You were too town for me to push much and I didn't have scumchat or a NK to deal with you or tell them to. LOL

Well played Kitz.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, I sheeped T S O because for the longest time I though he was groupscum until Oz told me he was SK. I probably would of pushed him as town or scum who knew what he was.

Cheet played that one well and did well with the way he handled the Oz bus plus the last two days looking very town.

[SilverWolf]

elusive-No matter how many times people are trying to change the subject by keeping it to the game or no matter times I am trying to drop the drama, you seem obsessed with keeping it going plus you are a lying sack of nasty.

Get over it or get help. Wake and I have been friends for a long time. He doesn't owe you any explanation for defending me. You calling me a psychopath is just you showing your true colors and I feel kind of sorry for you that you can't move on with your life or take a hint that this is over.

You also like to pretend that you know me or know anything about me but you don't and you are dead wrong/lyning. Also, stop hiding behind ika and Titus. They can talk to me themselves if they feel they need to. I don't owe YOU anything at all. You are also free to put this in a PM to Wake if you insist on continuing. There's no reason to continue to drag it out here.

I am not fake. I say exactly what I think. I don't hide behind a veil of niceness if someone is being crappy to me. I don't put up with that at all and will fight back every time. You and I clash because you are a mean girl and I don't play well with mean girls.

It should be no problem for us to move on and avoid each other in games. That's better for me, for you, for the other players, and the mods. ika is a popular guy and has no problem filling games. Really you have to let this go. It's getting pathetic at this point.

Consider this my last post on this.

To everyone else: I am sorry for any drama I caused and any problems it caused for you to play this game. I also apologize for anything mean I said via PM or dead chat. I'd really like to move on. There are so many more important things in life than what happens here.

~Wolfie out~

<3

[SilverWolf]

Silver, GC, piss, Aero, Oz & I will just be sitting here on the mountain of salt, lording over it.

mwahahahaha.

[SilverWolf]

You and Ozgin helped a lot with getting to endgame
Silver also obvtowned for basically the whole game

Pisskop is a deadguy but it's partially our fault for all telling him to roleblock viking so happy to get him the win to pay him back.

Yeah, the obvtown thing was great and all but I still wish I would of signalled my role in some way so you guys could figure out it was me. And obvtowning as scum traitor that can't be NK'd is really dangerous when townies like Kitz start asking why I'm alive.

I read Piss as scum right away. I think him and Ozgin were the only ones I got right.

[SilverWolf]

[SilverWolf]

I want to see it too because I was scum and I deserve to see what my buddies talked about damn it. I can't believe you shot me Ozgin after telling me how lost you'd be without me if I got shot. LOL

I do understand there were some issues with ongoing game stuff and House's replace out that needs to be resolved but I would think maybe delete those posts maybe?

[SilverWolf]

LMFAO, Silver, I was thinking of posting something like, "I don't know what I'm gonna do when you're dead tomorrow " but I didn't wanna risk it xD

Yeah, it would of been totally awkward when you shot me and I didn't die.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Have the mod delete what you don't want seen. Then I think everyone is o.k. with it being released.

[SilverWolf]

VF-I really believed you were the cop and being genuine. If I was town, I would of defended the shit out of you. But of course I wasn't so it was pretty easy for me to jump on your wagon and stay there. Sorry.

[SilverWolf]

A listmod could delete the questionable posts maybe?

[SilverWolf]

That was a great read, I loved it!!

OK, it totally makes sense now why you guys didn't figure out it was me considering you had no idea I didn't know who the other scum were.

I am glad I wasn't considered for NK for a long time due to the neighbourhood. Oz-I may be easily manipulated but not THAT easily manipulated.