Blitz 13 - Bad Omens (Judgment)

[OceanWind]

VOTE: OceanWind

Yeah, I got my eye on you this time. You will not fool me again mister.

~SW

Not here because I drew town this time but maybe some other game.

VOTE: Anxiety Attack

Wisdom is town. Pisskop probably is too.

[OceanWind]

What is your read on Pisskop now, MattP? And your read on Wisdom?

[OceanWind]

What is your read on Pisskop now, MattP? And your read on Wisdom?

Lol, it's page 2 of the game and they're both good players, I don't have reads. Neither strike me in a negative sense atm.

What do you mean "negative sense?" I'd expect this:

He's just trying to take the path of least resistance and start shooting down Usted as a PL-deserving VI on pg 2 because he's scum and it makes gives him something easy to coast on

to fall under that category.

[OceanWind]

What is your read on Pisskop now, MattP? And your read on Wisdom?

Lol, it's page 2 of the game and they're both good players,

I don't have reads.

Neither strike me in a negative sense atm.

I read a few games that you happened to be in. My impression was that you made yourself obvtown pretty quickly when you were town. So, I went back through your posting history and grabbed a couple of random games:

Disney uPick - You had a scumread on page 1.

Air Combat Mafia - You had a scumread on post 3.

Small sample size but it seems like you get reads relatively quickly. So, the bolded sounds like bullshit. Not to mention Wisdom and Pisskop both look fairly obvious town and I expect a player of your caliber to have picked up on it already based on what I've seen from you.

[OceanWind]

I've disagreed with pretty much everything you've said and done until this point. I don't know if that's telling.

[OceanWind]

I just said why I did it.

As to cherry-picking, do you have games where you sit around passively during RVS?

[OceanWind]

Am I sitting around passively right now?

The only assertive push you made in this game was to call Pisskop out for wanting to PL Usted.

I read a whole bunch of games to observe how scum strategize and such and also to see if I can identify who scum are from the outside. Typically, if you are in the game, you are usually one of the first players I tend to write off as town hence my suspicion here.

[OceanWind]

Okay, that vote actually gave me a townread. And no, I may not have any "authority" on your scumgame but if I watch a bunch of games someone plays and they are obvious town in all of them and I don't see that here, it is something I tend to want to follow up on.

[OceanWind]

Anxiety/Lucian. Calling it now.

[OceanWind]

@SilverWolf -

MattP's vote on LucianRoy is actually a pretty strong towntell. I may not have any experience with MattP's scumgame but I do have a general idea of how competent players respond to weak early attacks on them. If MattP was scum, he'd have easily defended against my attack on him and used that as a reason to scumread me. The fact that Lucian is on his side and defending him is another reason to do this. MattP played in a way that's contrary to what I expect of scum play - he recognized that Lucian jumping on me right after I attacked MattP was Lucian buddying him and in doing so, antagonized someone he could have used as an advocate for his scumteam. It makes perfect sense for him to do as town and very little sense as scum.

Adding to that is the fact that I do find Lucian scummy. The way he's defending Matt in Post 69 doesn't come across as genuine. Firstly, he didn't even wait for Matt to respond before diving in, and secondly, even if he disagreed with my opinion, that isn't indicative of my alignment.

[OceanWind]

I know you are capable of better than this.

I have zero completed towngames on this site so I don't know what you are trying to imply here. That I'm "better than this" as scum? If you mean that you think I'd play better as town, how would you know this?

And no, I haven't interacted with you but it's been a few hours into the game and I'll update my reads as the game progresses. At this point though I do have townreads on MattP, Wisdom, and Pisskop and you/Lucian make sense as a team. I thought Wisdom was correct in his assessment that you were underwhelming. I didn't like the way Lucian went out of his way to unvote you and not put leave you at L-1 or how he was acting around you in general (will wait for other head to post) which looked like how a weak scum player would react if his partner got under early suspicion for reasons he didn't understand. Calling out you/Lucian as a scumteam felt right and still does.

[OceanWind]

I agree lucian looks somewhat scummy, i dont that scum would oppurtunistically scumread you and get offended by you. oc, thats not considering if you are buddies.

I'm not sure I understand this. Can you rephrase?

[OceanWind]

Also how the hell does ocean have a town read on pisskop he hasn't done anything. Also I don't buy the association.

He's done enough. Advocating PLs so early in the game, aggressive response when questioned on it, his point about SilverWolf's meta.

As for the association, we'll see.

[OceanWind]

@SilverWolf -

MattP's vote on LucianRoy is actually a pretty strong towntell. I may not have any experience with MattP's scumgame but I do have a general idea of how competent players respond to weak early attacks on them. If MattP was scum, he'd have easily defended against my attack on him and used that as a reason to scumread me. The fact that Lucian is on his side and defending him is another reason to do this. MattP played in a way that's contrary to what I expect of scum play - he recognized that Lucian jumping on me right after I attacked MattP was Lucian buddying him and in doing so, antagonized someone he could have used as an advocate for his scumteam. It makes perfect sense for him to do as town and very little sense as scum.

Adding to that is the fact that I do find Lucian scummy. The way he's defending Matt in Post 69 doesn't come across as genuine. Firstly, he didn't even wait for Matt to respond before diving in, and secondly, even if he disagreed with my opinion, that isn't indicative of my alignment.

How did you get all that off a naked vote?

~SW

What do you even mean "how did you get all that off a naked vote?"

[OceanWind]

I do fnd Lucian a player of interest, but doubt that scum would be obligated to omgus a player who scumread them and try to oppurtunisticly create a wagon on them

Who are you referring to here? Lucian or MattP?

[OceanWind]

80 You called this vote a strong towntell and went into detailed explanation of MattP's thought process behind it and I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion without ever asking Matt about the vote. Like, how do you know this was his reason for the vote?

A lot can be inferred from naked votes based on the timing, who it's on, and the context in which it's made. I don't always need someone to spell out for me precisely why they are voting another player. The Lucian vote was fairly obvious based on his very scummy defense of MattP and his earlier scummy posting. I assumed MattP was seeing similar things that I was because there wasn't much else to go on or many other reasons to suspect Lucian.

[OceanWind]

I do fnd Lucian a player of interest, but doubt that scum would be obligated to omgus a player who scumread them and try to oppurtunisticly create a wagon on them

Who are you referring to here? Lucian or MattP?

Context, sir. Context.

Im talking about your erroneous opinion that Mattp would try to be obvscum and vote you when he could brush you off and save it for what it is: Aweak supporting point.

That makes it clearer. Optimal scum play in that scenario would have been to push me. It wouldn't make him "obvscum." He's already got Lucian's support. I made a lot of waves and was fairly aggressive in developing reads which in weaker playerlists is often seen as a scumtell. It's much more uncomfortable for scum to brush off an aggressive attack from someone and pursue other avenues than it is to just take advantage of the fact that someone made a weak attack on you and using it to push them. I'm speaking from past experiences as scum, I know what goes through my mind when I'm scum and that tends to informs my reads in future games.

[OceanWind]

Like Ocean, I don't feel like you did anything to sort my alignment before you decided I was scum with someone else. I had only made 4 posts, ika hasn't posted yet, Ranger hasn't and you are already calling scumteams. It's like you know my alignment already and don't care what it is. You just want me lynched.

And if anyone is buddying anyone in this game so far, it's you buddy MattP and maybe Wisdom. I mean you are calling them obvious town, saying they are giving off super strong towntells based on things you are assuming without asking.

Yeah, looks like your scumgame and how you treated me at the beginning of that game so I'm happy with my vote. I'll see what ika says when he gets here.

~SW

You keep saying I've "decided" that you are scum as if I've already cast a hammer vote. I think you are scum, yes. If you're town, then I expect I'll see it soon. I'm interacting with you and figuring you out now.

You did only have four posts which is why I didn't have much to say about you. You just don't feel like the town-SilverWolf I've played with in the newbie game. You don't have the fire to figure out the game. I don't see you aggressively scumhunting and trying to move the game forward. I see you mostly complaining about my and Wisdom's suspicion of you and saying that I didn't try to figure you out hard enough before "concluding" that you are scum. So what if I called the scumteam? That doesn't mean I can't change my mind and realize that you are town.

[OceanWind]

Yeah, looks like your scumgame and how you treated me at the beginning of that game so I'm happy with my vote.

At the beginning of that game, I didn't know you. I wanted to see how you'd react so I could establish a baseline. You reacted by pushing back hard on me. GoodMorning even told me in the mafia PT that you have a tendency to omgus your attackers.

So, your argument is that knowing all this, when I drew scum against you again, I decided attacking you out of the gate is good scumplay.

[OceanWind]

Silver -

What do you think of Lucian?

[OceanWind]

Would like your read on Yakko as well.

[OceanWind]

@hi im yakko -

Do you have any comments on Anxiety Attack's townread on Pisskop?

[OceanWind]

I'm a little less sure on SilverWolf based on her posts so far. I'll see how that develops. Much happier with my vote on Lucian.

UNVOTE: Anxiety Attack
VOTE: LucianRoy

[OceanWind]

@LucianRoy -

How do you distinguish between town asking questions to figure out a player's alignment and scum asking questions to "posture for a vote?" If I was trying to "get something out of Matt," that fits with town motivation, doesn't it?

Re-reading my Post 70, I think I was unclear. I didn't say that I agreed with your vote on me. I said that I disagreed with everything you've done including your vote on me. "until this time" meant, "until the present time," not "until your vote."

[OceanWind]

So me and silver have synced up.

Heres our read list:

1. Usted - town
2. Ranger - scum
3. Wisdom - null
4. OceanWind - town
5. Anxiety Attack (ika + SilverWolf hydra) - chosen town
6. pisskop - town
7. MattP - null scum
8. hi im Yakko - null scum
9. LucianRoy - null town

I thought you had me as scum.

[OceanWind]

Your refering to SW about that. We discussed it and concluded you are probably .

What was brought up during this discussion?

[OceanWind]

Nah, I isoed all three. Fairly comfortable with my callout.

You ISO'd all three in a little less than three seconds?

[OceanWind]

Also how the hell does ocean have a town read on pisskop he hasn't done anything. Also I don't buy the association.

I can see pisskop town based on the PL talk alone. I don't see scum doing that right out of the gate. Plus, most of the rest of his posts remind me of his towngame so far.

~SW

Also how the hell does ocean have a town read on pisskop he hasn't done anything. Also I don't buy the association.

He's done enough. Advocating PLs so early in the game, aggressive response when questioned on it, his point about SilverWolf's meta.

As for the association, we'll see.

Indicates playstyle not alignment :/

@hi im yakko -

Do you have any comments on Anxiety Attack's townread on Pisskop?

He's right?

[OceanWind]

UNVOTE: LucianRoy
VOTE: hi im Yakko

[OceanWind]

@ocean I can't read your mind. What are you trying to say in 202?

In 104 you asked why people are townreading pisskop, and in 109 you disagreed that pisskop's done things indicate alignment. How do you now agree with Anxiety's pisskop townread?

I decided he was town. The PL comment ocean made was a stupid reason to town read pisskop. I just jept that in the back of mind. When I got back to this game again and read (skimmed) through it pisskop asking someone about me made me think that was very town of him.

Anxiety Attack townread Pisskop for the same reason (the PL comment). You never inquired about it.

[OceanWind]

I can see pisskop town based on the PL talk alone. I don't see scum doing that right out of the gate. Plus, most of the rest of his posts remind me of his towngame so far.

~SW

[OceanWind]

@Yakko:

@ocean I can't read your mind. What are you trying to say in 202?

In 104 you asked why people are townreading pisskop, and in 109 you disagreed that pisskop's done things indicate alignment. How do you now agree with Anxiety's pisskop townread?

I decided he was town. The PL comment ocean made was a stupid reason to town read pisskop. I just jept that in the back of mind. When I got back to this game again and read (skimmed) through it pisskop asking someone about me made me think that was very town of him.

Anxiety Attack townread Pisskop for the same reason (the PL comment). You never inquired about it.

[OceanWind]

@ocean we can have a conversation I promise. I can't read your mind bro.

Anxiety townread Pisskop because Pisskop suggested a PL. Why didn't you ever ask about it when you've made a big deal out of my townread of Pisskop and went so far as to say that it was playstyle, not alignment?

[OceanWind]

@Hi im yakko

You keep ignoring my question while you've been answering others. Is there any reason I shouldn't assume that you are ignoring it because you have no response?

@ocean we can have a conversation I promise. I can't read your mind bro.

Anxiety townread Pisskop because Pisskop suggested a PL. Why didn't you ever ask about it when you've made a big deal out of my townread of Pisskop and went so far as to say that it was playstyle, not alignment?

[OceanWind]

Annoying as Yakko is, I'm leaning towards him being probably town from his responses. I need to sit down this evening and process the game again but I'm back to thinking Lucian is scum.

Yakko's point on Lucian was actually a good one. Lucian's vote on me seemed manipulative, like he was trying to get Matt to take his side, and it came at an opportunistic time. The rest of his ISO is unimpressive and doesn't give me pause.

[OceanWind]

UNVOTE: hi im Yakko
VOTE: Lucian Roy

[OceanWind]

Need to reread some stuff but I'm not comfortable with how an Usted wagon is forming out of nowhere. I think Lucian is the way to go here.

[OceanWind]

I actually agree with SilverWolf's point on Lucian not having any reads whatsoever. He scumreads me, then takes it back and then just rambles on not really saying anything.

This is in addition to his early play, vote on me, and the posturing around the early wagon on Anxiety.

[OceanWind]

Can you guys stop with the one-liners? They aren't adding very much to the game and I feel like it is impossible for me to catch up. In the very beginning I felt engaged with the game and then got a little behind and now everytime I sit down and try to catch up, it gets out of hand.

Anyways, I want to say I'll try and catch up tonight but I need sleep and deadline is tomorrow so I probably won't be able to.

I figured with just nine players, there won't be too many pages.

A few things off of the top of my head: Pisskop hasn't been particularly involved or as aggressive as he was in the recent completed Blitz game modded by Rob13 where he was town. I was following that closely and my impression of Pisskop was that he was abrasive and pissed off a lot of people but it is also what I read as extremely town while I was following the game. He seems a lot more lurkish here.

Some of SilverWolf's spark has been in this game but not enough to where I'm comfortable calling her town without reservations but it's something I'll have revisit tomorrow.

Out of the major wagons, I don't have any sort of read on Usted and still have a scumread on Lucian so I obviously prefer Lucian. I'll have to read Usted in a bit to see what I think.

[OceanWind]

Yeah, I won't be able to catch up. Need to sleep. Hopefully I can use the night phase to give this game a thorough re-read.

Fine with hammering Lucian.

[OceanWind]

Reading through the game with the flips in mind, I want Wisdom to explain that townread on LucianRoy.

[OceanWind]

Reading through the game with the flips in mind, I want Wisdom to explain that townread on LucianRoy.

I already said, I believed he was flipping chosen.

At what point did you start thinking this? You were defending (or soft-defending) Lucian as early as Post 205 and the few subsequent posts after that.

[OceanWind]

Post 207 and Post 208 were also effectively a defense of him and that's a lot before people started calling for hammers.

[OceanWind]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Yakko

What made you switch to Yakko here?

[OceanWind]

Ok then ocean is more likely than not town. Ocean pinged scum BC he was avoiding topics.

Who is your next least favorite town read?

Why are you townreading me based on second-hand information from Wisdom? You don't know if what Wisdom is saying is true and even if Wisdom is town, his interpretation of what "avoiding topics" is may be different from yours. He wasn't in Blitz 1 so he'd have no idea how you read me there.

[OceanWind]

Actually I think scum is Titus.

[OceanWind]

Finally caught up. Here's where I'm at: I agree that Anxiety, Yakko, and Pisskop are town for obvious reasons. I should have seen SilverWolf being obvtown earlier D1 but I wasn't following the game closely enough to notice but it is clear in hindsight. Yakko's and Anxiety's points against Lucian were both spot on. Pisskop was on the right lynch but while he wasn't very vocal about it, his aggressive play today is more of what I was expecting to see if he was town. That leaves us with the "didn't-vote-Lucian" pool: Wisdom, Usted, Titus.

Wisdom's hard-defense of Lucian actually makes me think he's town. Applying your own tell SilverWolf, I don't think Wisdom would have this many townreads towards the end of D1. He's also locking himself into an Anxiety/Usted team.

Pisskop, Matt, you, me, Yakko, Ocean and most likely Lucian. That leaves AA and Usted.

From his standpoint, best case he gets Usted lynched and once Usted flips town, that calls into question the legitimacy of his Anxiety scumread. Worst case, Lucian gets lynched anyways and he looks terrible. I don't think that if Wisdom was mafia with Lucian, that he would have risked going out on a limb to protect a lynchbait partner who couldn't handle himself well at all. To win this game, mafia needs to lynch a chosen. For that, they need at least a little bit of towncred. Bussing a weak partner achieves that. I can't see a scenario where Wisdom as mafia decided to tunnel a chosen, possibly open himself up to attack the following day and leave his lynchbait partner to carry the torch to endgame. Wisdom conspicuously avoided the Lucian wagon and I think it would be a poor move on his part to do that as mafia. But as stubborn town, if he truly believed that the Lucian lynch was too easy, he'd try to find an alternate wagon. I think Wisdom's progression of the Anxiety suspicion looked natural as well. I agreed with him that SilverWolf had a slow start and his eventual townread towards them now also matches my own read progression.

Will elaborate on Titus and Usted in a different post.

[OceanWind]

Usted's reaction to MattP's readslist and nightkill is not a scum reaction.

Also MattP wound up dead last night. His list was right about Lucian, its wrong about me, so maybe it was right about Titus.

Instead of discrediting MattP's readslist as wrong or that MattP was killed because he looks town, he digs into MattP's reads and speculates that since he's town, MattP must have been right about Titus. This locks him into pushing Titus and once Titus flips town, he sets himself up to be potentially suspected unless he backtracks hard. This would be an absolute terrible move as scum and I don't think scum would night kill a player that caught them only to do NKA which nearly condemns him. But from town who believes Titus is scum, it makes quite a bit of sense.

I understand he later switched to Wisdom for self-preservation but the point holds. His mindset at the time isn't something I think scum can emulate.

Most of the rest of his posts "lynch me, what then?" are weak towntells. I don't hold the ATE to be conclusive but in summation, I think Usted is town.

[OceanWind]

Even if he's scum, he's not going to lie about it.

Does not take into account that he could be town who has a very different interpretation of what "avoiding topics" means. He doesn't know how you read me in Blitz 1 so he has zero clue what

exactly

you are asking about.

---

Here's why I think Titus is mafia:

1. Once she replaces into the game, she piggybacks off of Wisdom's townread on Lucian (Post 547) to attempt the drive momentum away from the wagon. She's perfectly happy voting Usted of course. Her reasoning for Usted sucks and basically amounts to "let's townblock and lynch outside of it" which isn't how town-Titus formed reads in the previous game I've played with her.

2. Her townread on me is rubbish as I've already explained.

3. The buddying of Wisdom today without really critically examining why Anxiety finds him scummy. That reminds me @SilverWolf, Titus buddying Wisdom points to Titus-scum, not Wisdom-scum.

Titus subtly avoiding the Lucian wagon and working with her "townreads" to achieve a different lynch I think is far more condemning than Wisdom's blatant attempts to derail it.

I don't like that the wagons today involve both Wisdom and Usted voting each other as self-preservation. If Titus is your preference, let's lynch her, shall we?

VOTE: Titus

[OceanWind]

I doubt Usted would have that much insight into what happens in the future. We're talking about a guy playing his first game. I think it's more likely he killed MattP

in order

to use his reads in that way.

He's still locking himself into an effective 1v1 with Titus. It's a hard argument for him to make that we should lynch Titus because Matt had Lucian + one of Usted/Titus as scum. What then? He needs two more mislynches after Titus if he is to win which it'll be hard for him to get because he has to backtrack really hard.

He could just say Titus is scum without bringing Matt's read on him into the equation.

[OceanWind]

He could but he's bringing a lot of attention on him by saying that it is him or Titus. When it wasn't Titus, people would naturally look at him and I don't think he'd want that attention as scum and he wouldn't deliberately put himself in the spotlight. Experienced scum might do that but not newbie scum. And yes, I do consider him a newbie based on his level of play so far.

[OceanWind]

@SilverWolf -

I'm not seeing Wisdom as mafia at all. Please re-read how the end of the day went down (the pages since Titus's replace in). Her posts are far more opportunistic than his are.

[OceanWind]

I'm not really interested in setting up lynches on three people. I'd much rather we close it out today. I explain in Post 793 why I think Wisdom is town and in Post 799 why I think Titus is mafia. I'd appreciate it if you go over it when you are sober and let me know whether you agree or think I'm wrong but I'm feeling rather confident about it.

[OceanWind]

I'm okay with it. Just hope I'm right.

Looking through some of Lucian's early play around Wisdom, I don't think his accusation that Wisdom is keeping his RVS vote on you guys is scum to scum either. It looks more like he was trying to scumpaint Wisdom.

[OceanWind]

SW I'm expecting more from you, you're being rather underwhelming so far.

Wisdom, why does this sound like a reason for you to keep your RVS vote on Anxiety?

This post specifically.

[OceanWind]

That is the dumbest hammer I've ever seen.

[OceanWind]

@Wisdom -

Who's scum?

[OceanWind]

Nah, I blame Yakko.

[OceanWind]

Wisdom has been fairly active elsewhere. I want to see more analysis from him.

[OceanWind]

I don't really care about Chosen so much as lynching scum. We'd be making our task unnecessarily complicated. Scumhunting is reasonably reliable. Chosen-hunting depends on a load of WIFOM that not many people have experience with considering this seems to be a relatively rare setup.

I'm going with Titus for the reasons I outlined yesterday.

VOTE: Titus

[OceanWind]

It's pretty obvious it is you buddy. Wrong move killing Anxiety because I second-guessed myself considerably on Anxiety.

[OceanWind]

Man you guys shoulda listened to me. Sure cast aside the newbs opinion on killing wisdom first. Le sigh face. And me lynching usted didn't help any although I'd probably vote him in the end cuz I'm bad /end woe is me.

Well I'll maybe read. I did think ocean was weird at one point and I did think wisdom needed death at another. Confirmation bias too strong feelsbadman.

The vote switch from you to Lucian when you were at L-1 isn't something that comes from me as mafia. If you are town here, that should be pretty obvious.

[OceanWind]

Wisdom, quote Yakko's "townslip" for me.

[OceanWind]

I'm trying to see this from the POV that you are town but the nightkill doesn't really make sense from anyone other than you. SilverWolf was absolutely convinced you were mafia. If you killed me, you'd have Silver and Yakko voting you. If you killed Yakko, from what transpired in the last day phase, you'd think you'll have me and Silver voting you. The only way out for you would be to kill Silver and play up this "Ocean is a good player" paranoia hoping that Yakko falls for it and makes a mistake.

[OceanWind]

If Yakko was mafia here, I think the only real kill would be me. Since I was widely townread, it wouldn't attract attention and it would be you against Silver letting him hammer whoever he wants.

[OceanWind]

No, she was confident right up until the end.

If this doesn't end the game, we lynch Wisdom tomorrow for the win.

~SW

[OceanWind]

I want Yakko to take a more concrete stance.

[OceanWind]

Because you haven't really said anything besides "I'll re-read the game." You've been playing the game so far so the decision shouldn't exactly be a hard one if you are town.

[OceanWind]

I'm not "certain" that you are town. I lean towards it. If I was certain, I'd be voting Wisdom and yelling at you not to screw it up, not asking you to take positions so I can get a better read on you.

I asked you about my vote switch from you to Lucian because if you are town, it should be obvious that I gave up a near-certain lynch on you to go for Lucian (because Lucian wasn't voting you, if I left you at L-1, he would have eventually hammered).

[OceanWind]

Wisdom, have you ever in the past been indecisive? You strike me as the kind of player who's absolutely certain about everything but now it seems like you are going back and forth leaving room to push both ways.

[OceanWind]

Part of me just wants to put down a vote on Wisdom and leave it up to Yakko although the other part of me is worried he'll screw up and the only way town will win is if I force the decision myself. I wouldn't be doing the game justice if I didn't reread the thread though so I'll get to this tomorrow.

[OceanWind]

Every time I've been in lylo. In any day that is not lylo I push everything with certainty because nothing is final, but in lylo that just isn't possible. That's why I've hated it every time I've been part of it.

Okay, so give me links to your LYLO games as town.

[OceanWind]

Thanks. Will look through them tonight.

[OceanWind]

Yakko - why did you hammer Usted?

[OceanWind]

What read early game and I asked you a question: why did you hammer Usted?

[OceanWind]

If you are town, don't be an idiot. This is not even a contest. Wisdom defended Lucian for most of the game. I unvoted you and voted Lucian when it's obvious that I could have let you get lynched. The only real question is whether it is you or Wisdom so stop derping.

And you didn't answer the question.

[OceanWind]

Like I'm basically confirmed town to you so I don't get your LYLO play here at all.

[OceanWind]

If you are town, don't be an idiot. This is not even a contest. Wisdom defended Lucian for most of the game. I unvoted you and voted Lucian when it's obvious that I could have let you get lynched. The only real question is whether it is you or Wisdom so stop derping.

And you didn't answer the question.

To me it sounds like you think I am town and say whether it is me or wisdom. While crusading against wisdom. You've made up your mind already. And are waiting. For what I don't know. You said so Inwouldnt mess up. Which means you're waiting for my vote. Which in my mind means not to vote until after you do.

Convince me you're town. You saying hey I did this one thing here I'm obv town. Lucian was widely scumread you voting me would definitely bring attention to you. As people look at wagons since this is a small-ish game.

I was already on your wagon. I need not have posted anything at all. But I got off your wagon when you were at L-1 and switched to Lucian.

I don't know why you are trying to make this out to be some sort of difficult decision. For me, it needs a little thought. From your POV, it's pretty obvious. Wisdom defended scum for most of the game. I lynched scum in your place.

I want you to vote Wisdom since it's pretty clear from your POV that I'm town. That means he'll crossvote you. Then I intend to look over the entire game, re-read it bit by bit before I make my decision.

The only thing that's giving me pause about you is why you are not seeing the obvious.

[OceanWind]

So, if you could not be a moron and put down a vote on Wisdom, that's half the game done. And I'll worry about the making the right decision and go over it again tomorrow.

[OceanWind]

And can you please answer why you hammered Usted?

[OceanWind]

VOTE: Wisdom

I doubt I'm ever going to change my mind. Sorry if I'm wrong, Wisdom.

[OceanWind]

Did I just get endgamed?

[OceanWind]

I should have read the thread. You did a good job of faking being offended.

[OceanWind]

Wish I could just rewind time and go back and vote Yakko. You did a really, really fantastic job of looking like idiot town. I wish I'd have voted you and then even if Wisdom won, I'd chalk it up to "scum played well" as opposed to "scum played badly and I mega-screwed up and handed us the loss because I played a rubbish game."

Nice job town. Good job nailing Wisdom SilverWolf. He had me convinced for a while.

[OceanWind]

@ocean I was looking for a way to get you to vote. Sorry if I deceived you.

A lot of the time in LYLO, town feels more comfortable making the final decision because then it is obvious the other person won't screw up. We were in sort of a cycle where I wanted you to vote first so I could hammer Wisdom and you were doing the same with me. I felt voting at the time when you basically said you were going to vote me would change your mind. In any case, if you had voted him early, I'd have eventually voted him too and I'd have been less uneasy about you.

It is a tricky situation because both townies are playing chicken and if scum are smart, they'll be able to take advantage of it. Most of this LYLO, I was wishing I had hammered Wisdom on D2. That would have given us a perfect win. But glad we ultimately made it out of that mess.

[OceanWind]

Sorry if I deceived you.

In general, this isn't a good idea. It tempted me to vote you and if it was a different player, they may have given in. It could backfire a lot of the time.

[OceanWind]

I was freaking out talking to ika after I hammered a chosen. I was like, "shit, I will be kept alive for lylo and we will be voted and have to fight for our lives and I hate lylo and lost lylo twice

In my role PM, I was speculating to Ether that if you were mafia, you'd bring me to lylo and endgame me in an analogous way to that newbie game. But luckily you were nightkilled and only Ether is privy to the speculations of my wild mind.

[OceanWind]

I was probably too harsh on Yakko. Had a lot of pent up annoyance at the not answering questions and quickhammering playstyle which boiled over in lylo with the "deception." But ultimately you voted right at the critical moment and that won us the game. And that's all that matters.