Micro 624: Grey Flag Nightless (Game Over)

[RachMarie]

VOTE: Franky

For deceiving me so badly in our last game

[RachMarie]

ok I am confused December 7 to what? There is no 14th month?

[RachMarie]

ohh July 12 to 14

Thanks Joe love the username dude.

[RachMarie]

good to see you hoopla

[RachMarie]

Seriously dude you are going to view my liking his name as related to the game

[RachMarie]

14 was his response to my liking his name, I don't see that as game related. I love coffee too, and that is totally not related to my faction in a mafia game.

But you get kudos for trying to get discussion going.

[RachMarie]

why do you think it is scummy?

[RachMarie]

ummm hoopla was doing RVS on me and talking to me not joe?

[RachMarie]

What is it about Guilty Lion that makes you think he is scum?

[RachMarie]

Rosske is at L-1 BTW folks Please do NOT quick/derp hammer him, state intent first.

I am not as convinced that he is scum, especially with the speed of the wagon.

Want to check out a couple things before putting down a real vote.


I love the game Franky, and hope you are town this time

[RachMarie]

You can't edit in games rb, only the mod can.


which is why some folks use EBWOP (Edit by Way of Posting).

[RachMarie]

VOTE: Karnos

Yeah you are missing the POINT it is not putting someone at L-1 it is NOT ANNOUNCING it in the SAME POST so someone, like franky who was vla does not derp hammer.

As for town doing stupid things, town does that all the time, or else scum would never win a game. They do in general try to balance the setups but no matter what the setup is, it is only as good as the players who PLAY THE GAME.

So yeah try again.

Also I would say in my experience in games, MOST derp hammers are town especially on D 1, since scum realize they will come under scrutiny the next day, Scum quick hammer later in the game, especially in MYLO/LYLO where it gives them a win.

[RachMarie]

Just ask the mod to do the magic many will fix quote fails if you ask. Also Preview is your friend. I use it a lot, especially when trying to do quotes.

One example was in a game I was watching while waiting for my first game on the first day dude derp hammered and dude flipped town. I can remember at least a couple of times it happening in games I was in, would take me a bit to find them though. I have played in a LOT of games onsite.

[RachMarie]

I did not say it never happens I said in my experience most of the time it does not happen

After all the game I have mentioned in my sig, shadow jumped in and hammered me on day 2 before anyone could push him or his scum buddy aubrey. Aubrey went on to win the game.

I could also say in my experience it is rare we lynch scum on d 1, and that it is really bad juju to have a NL on D1, that does not mean we should either NL to avoid hitting a townie on D1, nor that a NL on D1 is an autowin for scum.

A lot depends on the set up, what PRs there are, and most of all how the players play the game.

[RachMarie]

Game theory in general not just THIS setup.

Karnos was saying my mentioning derp hammers often come from townies in games was antitown, and I was explaining further.

[RachMarie]

I could buy into a Karnos/GL team.

[RachMarie]

Actually to be fair town often shoots itself in the foot.

Game theory is often bandied about early on because people are sitting around and trying to figure out who is scum and who is town, if they are town. If they are scum they usually hunker low and try to not be too obvious. Game theory at least is some discussion and can sometimes cause scum slips where you can find the scum out. Shutting down discussion ESPECIALLY this early in the game, is scummy.

I am pretty happy with my vote.

[RachMarie]

Amazing how GL is flailing about a comment I made toward Karnos...

[RachMarie]

Yeah Karnos is making noise, but he is not analyzing it just saying things like that is how scum wins every game.

And he is not at L1. Rosske is

[RachMarie]

oh I misread that,

First his L1 vote was NOT visible a visible L1 vote would be to mark IN BOLD that you are placing someone at L1.

He just slipped a vote in there,

He has then focused on shutting down discussion trying to say that I am giving scum pointers. Which also indicates he knows I am town. Its too soon to KNOW anyone is town, you should suspect everyone at this point even if you have town reads they should not be 100% absolute.

So how would Karnos KNOW I am town,

oh right if he is scum he would know.

[RachMarie]

Compare TNEs town read on me with what Karnos said...

which one looks like it is coming from a clueless at this point townie PoV and which one sounds like it is coming from someone with insider info? ahem scum PoV

[RachMarie]

Also, I'd like to point out that what you just said, even if true, is a very anti-town thing to say

.

Once you start claiming that a derp-hammer is likely town, before it has occurred, you are opening the door to a scum quick-hammer by giving them plausible deniability.

Why anti town, why not accuse me of being scum? Why not say it is scummy? Why not at least say that makes me more suspicious?

I am very suspicious of people who have this strong a town read on me this early in a game. I learned that from my first game on site when scum won because I was not suspicious enough...

[RachMarie]

Obviously I am going to have to show you some games where town derp hammered and got mislynched for it GL

[RachMarie]

I am talking PoV not just the wording but the mindet behind the wording.

[RachMarie]

Dude posted multiple times yesterday, we have almost 11 days til deadline, what is the rush there karnos? I think we can give him at least another day before hanging him. (sarcasm)

Not everyone is glued to their computer which is why the time for prods and such is set up in the game.

For example, yesterday I was off the computer for several hours due to my legs being very swollen and hurting. Went to wound care today and got fresh compression bandages yay.

I think before we lynch anyone we need more discussion. I feel very much like karnos is trying to end the day very quickly and not give us time to talk to each other before going off to our beds and waking up in the morning finding one of us dead :/

Well one of the games I was thinking of Mafia on Holiday most of the game got lost by tigers (a major crash that basically lost about 6 months or so of data, most of my first game was lost too. Now that I am back home again will find a couple more games.

[RachMarie]

Looks like he thinks because rb is supporting another wagon than the one on rosske, the one on karnos.

[RachMarie]

Pick Your Poison Open 397
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=21865

Rasp derp hammered on BK on D1
The town vig (2 shot) who was rather a meh player, shot him in the night for some strange reason.
I was scum with a hydra who was NUTS, and got me lynched D2 but we still won the game because of glow who totally rocked.

Newbie 1221
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=21452

Jackal just hammered out of the blue did not give intent, he was later replaced by Pere, and was our JK and even he admitted later he did not do his best. Just to be clear TOWN JK. Larry David the lynchee was also town.

In fact, I was pushing one of the scum reads and kept pushing til he got lynched NuRC. I was town in that game.

Newbie 1222
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=21405

Deadline derp lynch before I even got in the game as a replacement, Troll (Zorblag) spent a fair bit of time with me in the dead thread after I died. I replaced in as the cop and had a inno, they would have been better off mislynching Elmo than Troll since everyone was scum reading Elmo but she could not get lynched, she was very apathetic because of stuffs unrelated to the game. Even she was upset they did not lynch her. I caught Ghost world in a fake claim and they still did a NL and ended up almost not lynching both scum in the end.

TBM's van game (Newbie 1236)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=21878

Uberninja was derphammered without a claim. CES was town and the doc and he was the one who derp hammered. Town still won the game mostly to some really bizarre play by CES and Gen who was the JK.
I mostly felt way out of my league with the players though I did help nail both Thor and Isa.


Space Mafia Mini 1355
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4165490

Inte derp hammered thinking he was putting dude at L1 Bit was town, so was Inte. This was a crazy game I was neighborized with roflcopter in the engineering room, and in the game people thought I was the computer, but I wasn't, I thought it was a game mechanic but turned out to be another player.


This is a lot of work going through these games looking for derp hammers, but there are just a few, I know there are more, I hope that answers your question karnos. And everyone elses as well.

[RachMarie]

aww TNE hugs ♥ and healing, my friend.

[RachMarie]

derp hammers include hammers where the person is clearly not paying attention and just votes bam and hammers, These are hammers where often the person then comes under scrutiny but they then flip town,

That was my point not just not announcing L-1, but the whole way you breezed off hey if someone hammers its fine cause they be scumz.

Fact of the matter is town derp hammers more often. Not all quick hammers are scum.

[RachMarie]

Yes I pointed it out, but then you responded with the whole well if they do that they are scum.

Not all quick hammers are scum

[RachMarie]

That was why I put my vote there, the reason I kept it there was your response.

[RachMarie]

Also I would say in my experience in games, MOST derp hammers are town especially on D 1

[edit/repost fixed quote]

Fixed the quotes — callforjudgement

Can you link to a couple examples of this? Since you say "most", I assume you have seen it happen more than once.

Here I show I am not just talking about the L-1 thing which is what I voted you FOR this is the issue that has kept you in my scum pile.

[RachMarie]

I will reread seemed like there was more heat esp with some of the things GL was saying in defense. Still the point stands derp hammers happen, I also am not impressed by the vote on me for pushing on you, but I have also seen that come from both alignments.

I am sorry you did not see my point with those games, however that does not make me scum.

At least we are getting some real discussion going.

[RachMarie]

Feel pretty good about Hoopla she has not much content, but what she has makes sense.

I have too Franky but we needed to get things moving, I am however willing to give him another chance to prove me wrong because yeah sometimes townies really derp it up.

The thing that is pinging me is his response to his wagon and that is making me second guess my scum read on him. It sounds so much like me in so many games. And of course I flipped town in those games.

We have pretty much gnawed this one to the bone though. Moving on to look at some others.

[RachMarie]

TNE if the game ends that way I swear I am gonna see about nominating you for a scummy award lol Stranger things have happened in games.

[RachMarie]

work deadline tomorrow will post more after I get this report finished for a client.

[RachMarie]

At mod put me on v/la until Friday July 22nd I need to get caught on on work

Noted – callforjudgement

[RachMarie]

If I misunderstood what you were saying karnos I genuinely am sorry

It has been a rough couple of days in work wise plus a stressful other issue which I can't go into atm because ongoing,

Im taking a few days to focus on work stuffs but I will be popping in

[RachMarie]

Sorry all been slammed with work sigh and have had less time than I thought I would

I thought I had unvoted you karnos.

UNVOTE:

[RachMarie]

DO you have anything specific like a case on TNE? Because I am town reading her and yes some of that is extensive meta from many games together, but it seems like your entire case on her is she wont answer my question? That is not necessarily from scum, some townies will not respond directly to a strong scum read, rather preferring to focus on figuring out other players. So that is not enough to say everyone should vote the person who has spoken out the most that I am scum.

And that is what this feels like for me.

[RachMarie]

why such a big list there hoopla?

[RachMarie]

Still swamped with work stuffs will post more tomorrow, hopefully by then I will be done with the 10, 1 k articles I have to write for client.

[RachMarie]

I went vla in ALL my games

came back and posted I was still swamped more on monday

today is monday I am here catching up

[RachMarie]

Franky clearly site flaked why are people wanting to lynch Infin over that?

[RachMarie]

Wait this is a micro there are THREE scumz? how is that balanced I thought with 9 players it was 2?

And how do you know there are 3, Hoopla?

[RachMarie]

I admit I am doing catch up here in a couple of games, but yeah was confused

[RachMarie]

lol poor mod it only took 3 tries

[RachMarie]

we need a scum flip first

teams at this point are pointless

[RachMarie]

I want time to read infin I have played with him before.

so far I have not seen anything scummy and franky just plain flaked out.

[RachMarie]

I need to read through some of the newer pages read him in ISO I know I dropped off of him because it seemed like he was towning it up

[RachMarie]

jeeze you hammered before I could get back was at wound care and posting there on my kindle fire on crappy wifi sucked so bad.

ok looking at the wagon


Rosske (5): thenewearth, rb, GuiltyLion, Infinity 324, karnos
thenewearth (1): Rosske
Infinity 324 (1): Hoopla
Not voting (2): RachMarie, Javajoe24

I was not voting because i was not here I had intended on putting down a vote but you all lynched fast.


rb and guilty lion are in good spots for a scum on a town lynch wagon

off the wagon hoopla or joe hmmm have to think on that I doubt all the scumz were on the d 1 wagon though.

going with top ones

rb and GL

[RachMarie]

Joe has a good chance of flipping scum based on wagon analysis

I could support that he is a scum read for me not only based on analysis but overall play.

Not as sold on GL or rb though being town. Karnos hammer would be really ballsy to do as scum on D1 like that. So odds are one of the other two is scum. I don't think tne is scum.

[RachMarie]

lemme see if I can find a couple games I was in with tne

[RachMarie]

ok excuse me but I have been absent including vla and swamped doing work projects go stalk my posts feel free.

I genuinely made an error in number of scum in the game. That is all.

[RachMarie]

so
this game

Infin I know you have a poe thing going on here but how about focusing on your top scum reads for now.

[RachMarie]

wait I thought I was voting

VOTE: Joe

[RachMarie]

I have been slammed with work stuffs

I have voted for my top scum read.

[RachMarie]

rb keep in mind the wagon analysis too with 3 scum instead of 2 you might get 2 on the lynch wagon but not all 3

Of those off the wagon joe makes the most sense as scum

[RachMarie]

who was that?

[RachMarie]

I will go check that out but atm Im town reading hoopla it feels like her townie game I have seen in other games.

he is in a good position for scum ON the wagon and Im getting a more solid read on you since you have posted more stuff. so yeah he goes in my scum pile.

[RachMarie]

log in on your hydra on another browser that is the easiest way to prevent hydra or alt slips. Tis what I did because I knew otherwise I would be in trouble, especially with as many things and tabs I have going in my man browser lol.

[RachMarie]

oops that was supposed to be MAIN browser

[RachMarie]

Why is joe not lynched yet?

[RachMarie]

yeah most 1v1s are TvT because the townies get focused on a point while trying to find the scum and they don't want to let go of it. And they are not worried about how the others see it because they are on a MISSION. Scum even when they try to do stuff to look town usually always have that I have to make sure I don't get lynched in the back of their mind. Which is why most of them play cautious. The few who can pull it off though are pretty amazing players.

[RachMarie]

leaning to GL being the one ON the wagon and as for the 3rd uggh Im still clueless

[RachMarie]

sometimes there is a sound noise issue though. The other persons on the wagon were rb and Im feeling more like he is town based on some of his later posts and karnos. who I had a 1 v 1 with on D1.

So yeah its not a perfect world

[RachMarie]

hmmm may need to reassess but I have tne as town.

[RachMarie]

not yet I will though just been swamped taking a break atm but I still have two more long articles to write plus a bonus one for free to make up for taking so long getting this done

[RachMarie]

Hoopla

[RachMarie]

VOTE: Karnos

[RachMarie]

Infin what do you think of karnos?

[RachMarie]

TNE do you really think in this setup one of the scum bussed Joe?

[RachMarie]

yes but in a setup up where town only needs to get 2 of 3 its sub-optimal to bus

[RachMarie]

i will have to take a look with the site being so flaky uggh

however Im focusing on those who were NOT on the Joe wagon since I think that is our best place to find scum.

[RachMarie]

no I mean the white flag set up where you only have to lynch two scum of 3

not the standard set ups for micro with 7/2

[RachMarie]

LOL what is this ???

I suppose rb should be voting me to maintain the symmetry though I would rather see multiple votes on scum, myself

[RachMarie]

we need more votes to make that happen

[RachMarie]

stop that no random

we need to lynch scum

[RachMarie]

NO MATH stop it

it is far too early and I have to have coffee before I can dealz with math stuffs

[RachMarie]

oh wow really

OMGUS AND just wanting to vote someone I might be able to get lynched, not a real scum read.

I feel pretty good about where my vote is.

[RachMarie]

especially saying that rb wont bus GL

[RachMarie]

umm 1 scum is down tne only one more needs to die for town to win

aint no way no how scum are gonna bus it is against their wincon

[RachMarie]

are you really pushing that two or at least one of the two other scum bussed their scum budz in a white flag or grey flag set up where town only needs to lynch two of the 3?

really seriously is that the best you got karnos?

I have played this set up before

[RachMarie]

yeah I can do simple math

I am scum reading you and GL

[RachMarie]

you are right uggh

Im not sure then who the partner is

but if we lynch karnos then we win the game because we dont need scum 3

[RachMarie]

NOT IN WHITE FLAG OR GREY FLAG

how many times to I have to tell you this is not a 7 2 set up

this is a 6 3 set up with town only needing to lynch 2/3 of the scum tean

READ THE SETUP

please

[RachMarie]

grumble grumble grumble

once again low hanging fruit

while scum karnos gets a pass

hey townies how about this lets lynch real scum like we did yesterday

how about we think about the fact that scum is desperate we lynch one more we WIN THE GAME

how about the fact they are setting me up which is probably why they nked hoopla with their vig kill

[RachMarie]

thanks for that

Im being more aggressive than usual because Im sick of watching townies shoot themselves in the foot

as I get mislynched AGAIN

its part of why Im doing the hydra with Jiffy
and soonish one with Nacho

I have been playing for 4 1/2 years so I probably should learn how to play and stop being stupid lynchbait cant get peeps to vote scumz

[RachMarie]

yeah I was joe was scum

and I dont bus even in games where bussing is optimal

I lost a game recently because I did not have the heart to bus my scum budz and I got lynched on d1

he was a newbie and actually did pretty good almost won us the game.

[RachMarie]

that is it Im done

just go ahead lynch me

get scum tomorrow please

this is bloody ridiculous

[RachMarie]

I have had everyone but hoopla and tne say they are scum reading me

I cant get anyone to see you are scum karnos

so yeah I am frustrated.

[RachMarie]

Javajoe24 (5): Infinity 324, Hoopla, RachMarie, thenewearth, rb
Hoopla (1): Javajoe24
rb (1): karnos
karnos (1): GuiltyLion

there is also GL who was fighting the lynch kicking and screaming that joe was town.


based on your reasoning since I know I am town I know hoopla is town, it would be infin tne and rb two of whcih being scum

but a double bus is risky in any 3 player scum team, its especially risky in this kind of setup where losing 2 of 3 is all that is needed to lose

[RachMarie]

hmm

I have to do some work

I will think on this

we are not yet at dl I have time to think

[RachMarie]

as you see the reads, maybe NOW you see why I had my lil temper tantrum last night

I don't think there is a single player here who sees me as town. That means I am doing something WRONG.

The ONE player who did see me as town is dead and flipped town (Hoopla rip )

do you all really think I would have gone along with nking her when Im such good lynchbait.

Look at my record (not on wiki that thing is so far out of date its bloody ridiculous) something like 75 % of the time I am lynched either D 1 or D 2.

Still most of the time I do not have the entire player list save one dead person reading me as scum lol

This is why I am getting into hydrae with a couple of other players starting with Jiffy to improve my game.

You guys can lynch me I will flip town, and then I want you to nail the scum please. Or you could listen to me and not assume all the scum were on the wagon on Joe.

Even if ONE of them was, not BOTH of them no way no how not in a setup where scum is already at a disadvantage.

Even in more traditional setups scum do not double bus when there are 3 scum its one on one off the wagon just like when they help town lynch town.

[RachMarie]

I just do not buy that both scum were on Joe's wagon I don't

and the pool off the wagon is smaller that is why I think it is the best place to start

logic my friends wins games

[RachMarie]

tne I am voting karnos

[RachMarie]

tne

don't talk like that please seriously its not something to joke about I have tried to commit suicide and I know others who have succeeded at it.

[RachMarie]

tne take a break and do something else for a bit ok.

You have made your point, the people here currently are voting for him other than of course himself.

go chill for a bit ok for me tyvm

[RachMarie]

good I gotta leave for a while to go to wound care anyways bbl

[RachMarie]

sorry was gone a big chunk of the day plus doing work stuffs later than usual because I was gone to wound care.

I will take a look at rb but I still feel good about karnos especially as hard as it has been to get him lynched.

[RachMarie]

was that the hammer?

Really?

[RachMarie]

shit now I am second guessing my scum read

I hate when that happens

[RachMarie]

tne with the winconon the line no friggin way would a scum self hammer

its white flag no way would the 2nd scum of 3 deliberately throw their game away like that

[RachMarie]

could someone please contact the mod I am trying to work here

[RachMarie]

****

I am really clueless here

IT IS LYLO WITH TWO SCUM DO NOT VOTE

[RachMarie]

I am going to do some iso research and see what I can figure out clearly my reads are totally off base here and the only one I can be sure of being right was hoopla

[RachMarie]

and everyone of those three flipped town uggh

Ok Im going to look at his ISO and see if I can figure out at least one of his scum budz

[RachMarie]

I could support a GL lynch

[RachMarie]

sigh this game

[RachMarie]

no I really was scum reading him

I am sorry I was wrong.

Im genuinely at a loss here in this game who the other scum are.

[RachMarie]

yeah that is a good point Im not putting a vote down though yet

not til I hear from everyone because I want to make sure before I vote to prevent a scum hammer with two scum left

[RachMarie]

uhh and I am scum for what precisely?

(sits back and pops some popcorn)

[RachMarie]

ATM I really am not sure who is town and scum (other than me)

my reads other than joe and hoopla have been clearly off.

I know two of you are scum.

Im gonna do some rereading with that in mind with fresh eyes

[RachMarie]

Yes I have played the set up before

no i really was not aware it was this setup when i asked

way to misrep.

Yes I asked Hoopla my strongest town read a question PLUS I then went back and looked at the OP

Felt kind of dumb for missing it in the first place.

My statement about playing this setup before came LONG AFTER I asked hoopla and checked again the setup of the game.

Yeah I probably am in too many games.

Try again

[RachMarie]

actually I played white flag but it has been like 2 years since I played it

I went back and looked at the game

[RachMarie]

I am

[RachMarie]

why because I did not put down a vote right away in LYLO?

[RachMarie]

Im town reading infin and tne I know I must be wrong on one of them because I dont you and rb being a scum team together

Yet I am pretty sure that either you or rb is scum

you more than him

im not gonna vote yet not until I have some time to really look through some ISOs

[RachMarie]

err dont SEE you and rb

[RachMarie]

no I have been swamped with WORK STUFFS

I am already behind on a 10 page report for a client I was supposed to have to him today.

[RachMarie]

OK let me make it clearer

I think you or RB are scum is that clear enough for you

[RachMarie]

I do not think you are scum together though so that is why I want to sort it out

[RachMarie]

I was checking another forum

Looking at links for research for a 10 page report for a client

Talking in PM with Jiffy

Talking in site chat

Checking some things on FB for another client who also is my biz coach

checking other threads including other games

writing up an outline for said 10 page report.

Ok does that make more sense of why I I posted in here a couple times that just happened to be not long after you posted?

[RachMarie]

ISO of rb and GL together

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go


Oh wow the amount of interaction here I take it back you two could be scum budz together

[RachMarie]

reads

GL and rb scum

Infin and TNE town

[RachMarie]

that is based on the dual iso thingy I posted you two are interacting and its like you are coaching each other

Why do you want me to hammer BEFORE Infin gets back? I know deadline is coming up but

19 hours and infin did say he would be back before then

[RachMarie]

Fine you want a vote

VOTE: GL

[RachMarie]

hey infin so you did like him pushing me to hammer before you got back either eh?

[RachMarie]

wait WHAT I thought I was the first vote on GL

oh gods I am so sorry

Never vote when you are annoyed. I was not done with my stuff I was doing and that is exactly what I did because this past month or so has been such a mess though many positive things have happened. Like streamlining my biz stuffs, my legs pretty much are now healed, hopefully today the doc will take me off of compression bandages and move me into compression socks. I am so sorry GL truly I am.


GG Infin i really thought you were town dude.


Pedit not just you tne me too I really was scum reading him

[RachMarie]

I almost did in this game sigh

[RachMarie]

GL

I really am sorry I let my irritation make me vote the wrong way.

[RachMarie]

Joe you did a great job especially for a newbie

[RachMarie]

LOL Sorry boys, hoopla was bleeding town redder than my hair