Newbie 1732 [Game Over!]: InnocentVille

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #71 (isolation #0) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:29 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 49, Chrimi wrote:I've had alternate
accounts
, as well, not that it matters. I've also played a shitton off-site. :s
In post 54, Chrimi wrote:I was quite literally doing the opposite of hiding behind alts by pointing out that I have
an alt
and telling you their name so you can go see more of my meta...
First you say you have multiple alternate account
s
, and now it's only "
an
alt?"
VOTE: Chrimi
You will explain this contradiction, along with giving the usernames of all your other alts, if you want this vote to be elsewhere today.
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Post Post #75 (isolation #1) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:30 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 73, Chrimi wrote:Anyways, is this game an elaborate prank or are you actually going to stick your vote on me the entirety of day one for having alternate accounts? Most players on this site have alternate accounts. It's not scummy, or against the rules.
I honestly can't tell if you seriously believe in what you're saying right now or if you're just trying to set up a strawman here. Nobody is voting you just for having alts. Nobody is saying alts are against the rules. I'm voting you for contradicting yourself and then refusing to give the username of your other alt.
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Post Post #92 (isolation #2) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:43 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 78, implosion wrote:Contradictions aren't actually as good of a scumtell as you'd think they are in cases like this. To discern a town post from a scum post, you have to discern whether the post was motivated by town intent or scum intent. A contradiction like Chrimi mentioning that she has multiple alts then only mentioning one of them is extremely unlikely to be scum motivated - scum would not have motivation to intentionally lie in that way, both because it's very unlikely that hiding that extra alt account's information is actually going to help them as scum and because people may notice the discrepancy and call them out (but moreso the first). It's not indicative of Chrimi's alignment because it's far more likely that Chrimi simply misspoke or, as she said, simply didn't consider the hydra worthy of mentioning.
Hiding alts is more harmful to town than it is to scum, because it makes it harder to get accurate reads. I guess it could be argued that that information also helps scum get pr reads, but the benefits of town having that information far outweighs the drawbacks of scum having that information. Hiding an alt is almost strictly an anti-town play, and is therefore scummy.
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Post Post #93 (isolation #3) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:49 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 90, Chrimi wrote:I gave it an answer. You whined about the answer not being worded the way you like.
Where did you answer his question? You never actually explained why you're not voting in post #58, you just said that it isn't scummy, something nobody even implied was the case.
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Post Post #94 (isolation #4) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:55 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 83, Chrimi wrote:Yes but how is not wanting to give the names of all my alts scummy?
Do you have any reason to not give that information? I think seeing more of your meta will help town make more informed decisions on who to lynch, and continuously refusing to give that information without even giving a reason for doing so is very much an anti-town play.
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Post Post #96 (isolation #5) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:02 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 81, Rocnix wrote:Tell us about yourself!
Sure! This is my second game on here, but I've played a good amount on irc, so I know what I'm doing for the most part. Time zone is UTC+2. Not sure what more to say about myself that's relevant to the game.
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Post Post #100 (isolation #6) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:02 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 99, Chrimi wrote:I think you overestimate how useful meta is. It's not very much an anti-town play, especially since I made that alt specifically for trying a different playstyle. Meaning, I'm already trying to play very differently in those games, so the meta is going to be exponentially useless.
This makes no sense. If it's useless, why bother hiding it? The only legitimate reason for town to hide information is if the information is more beneficial to scum than to town, which is obviously not the case here.
In post 99, Chrimi wrote:Mm, if it isn't scummy, then take your vote somewhere else.
That's not the reason I'm voting you for. Why are you trying to deflect his very legitimate question?
In post 99, Chrimi wrote:This is just plain wrong, nothing else to say about it.
Nothing else to say about it? How about explaining why it is wrong, if such an explanation exists?
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Post Post #101 (isolation #7) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:05 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 98, thenewearth wrote:Actually you know what?

Calling it right here

Shannon-Penguin
What would you say the odds are that that's the scum team?
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Post Post #107 (isolation #8) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:58 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 102, Chrimi wrote:Yes, but this information isn't beneficial to anyone.
Speak for yourself. I think it could be beneficial, and others have shown interest in it as well. If you don't have a good reason not to give the username of this alt, why are you being so defensive on this?
In post 102, Chrimi wrote:It's incorrect. Hiding alts isn't scummy.
Refusing to give information that could be of benefit to town, regardless of how insignificant you think that benefit is, is very much a scumtell unless there's a good reason to keep that information hidden.
In post 102, Chrimi wrote:Why are you voting me?
You start the game off by self-voting and claiming scum. Not only is this scummy, but also so incredibly stupid that it basically confirms you're a VI. A VI getting mislynched is a lot less bad than someone who knows how to play the game getting mislynched, so you being a VI is a valid reason to lynch you even though a VI has the same chance of being scum as everyone else here, as you won't be of as much use to town compared to a non-VI player.
After that, you just unvote instead of using your vote to put pressure on potential scum, further proving that you are a VI, and further proving that you have little interest in finding scum.
You then go on to do basically no scumhunting whatsoever, refusing to answer people's questions, and make up your own arguments that you refute instead of the actual arguments that people have made.

Yeah, I'd say that my vote is pretty well-placed where it is right now, but if you think there's someone else that my vote should be on, I would like to know who that is and for what reasons.
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Post Post #108 (isolation #9) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:00 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 104, thenewearth wrote:Totoro-san big
Could you be serious for a second and actually give a number?
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Post Post #114 (isolation #10) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:38 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 111, thenewearth wrote:A totoro is a number
Can you give a real number that's a percentage between 0 and 100?
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Post Post #124 (isolation #11) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:04 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 117, Chrimi wrote:The alt thing is a total misrep. I only have one actual alt. The second one is called a hydra. If you don't know what a hydra is, take your vote off until you've read enough wiki to understand what one is.
Why don't you go read the wiki? If you did, it should be abundantly clear that a hydra is a form of alt.
In post 117, Chrimi wrote:And finally, having alts and refusing to share their names isn't scummy. Get over it.
Now you're just repeating yourself. It's scummy. You can say that it's not all you want, but unless you can explain why it isn't scummy, I don't think you're convincing anyone. Why can't you even give a reason as for why you can't give the name of your hydra alt?
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Post Post #130 (isolation #12) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:07 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 119, Chrimi wrote:I am directly refuting the arguments you make, and letting you know that they're wrong.
Where have you refuted anything that I've said so far? Simply stating that something is wrong is not "refuting" anything. You actually have to prove that I'm wrong to refute anything.
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Post Post #132 (isolation #13) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:09 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 129, Chrimi wrote:Oh, and for why I won't give the name of the Hydra alt:
It doesn't matter and its' play isn't indicative of how I usually play at all. Same with the alt I did give the name for.
Bullshit. You've made it super clear that it matters, or you would've just given the name instead of hiding it and defending yourself doing so.
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Post Post #135 (isolation #14) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:19 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 133, Chrimi wrote:Uhh.
No. It still doesn't matter, and I'm still not going to give the name.
If you can explain how giving the username is anti-town, then go for it. You've so far completely failed to do so, whereas I have made valid arguments for why it is pro-town.
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Post Post #138 (isolation #15) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:22 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 121, thenewearth wrote:I have uh...

2 alts and... 5 hydras?
And what are the usernames of those accounts?
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Post Post #140 (isolation #16) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:24 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 136, Chrimi wrote:Your arguments for why it's pro-town are wrong.
It's not anti-town either.

See what thenewearth said on the subject. NAI stands for Not Alignment Indicative, btw.
If you can't point out any flaws in my arguments yourself, then maybe you should ask someone like the IC to do so. It's a bit much to expect a VI to know how arguments work, after all.
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Post Post #143 (isolation #17) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:27 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 141, thenewearth wrote:I don't like giving these names lul
Can you at least give a reason?
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Post Post #146 (isolation #18) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:34 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 145, thenewearth wrote:Alts are there for a reason

Yeah sure, some people, even me, openly admit who their alt is

BUT

You have to understand, you're literally pulling a crappy case out of a horse's ass

Alts exist for a reason, and its to hide their main
Can you explain how hiding information about your meta is of benefit to town, or how giving that information could hurt town? Wouldn't it be better for town if they knew more about your meta so they have more information and can make more accurate reads?
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Post Post #152 (isolation #19) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:05 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 149, thenewearth wrote:Because meta is bullshit and shouldn't be the basis of a case?

Like... If I hear 1 more meta out of this game I'm gonna stop playing nice and be the most annoying tunnel-driven asshole you can be

META IS NOT A SCUMTELL NOR IS IT A TOWNTELL

ITS ONLY A SUPPORTING ARGUEMENT
If someone does something often as scum that they never do as town, then that's often a pretty good scumtell. Even if it is as you say, and meta can only be used as a supporting argument, then why not give the usernames of your alts so that town can use that information for supportive arguments?
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Post Post #216 (isolation #20) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:55 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 165, implosion wrote:I don't think that hiding an alt is really particularly harmful to the town
In post 165, implosion wrote:meta is not the end-all be-all
It's still anti-town, and therefore it's indicative of being scum. Even if it's just a minor scumtell, it's not like we have much else to go by at this point in the game.
In post 165, implosion wrote:when you say:
The only legitimate reason for town to hide information is if the information is more beneficial to scum than to town, which is obviously not the case here.
it's based on a false premise that hiding that information has to be based on the motivation of trying to win this game, rather than motivated by out-of-game reasons or in this case not really motivated by anything in particular (I really have a hard time doubting Chrimi when she says that she simply didin't find listing the hydra account relevant).
This has to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever seen from an IC. This is based on a false premise that Chrimi cares so little about winning the game for town that she's using out-of-game reasons to justify making an anti-town play, which by the way, would even go against the site rule of "Play to win the game."
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Post Post #217 (isolation #21) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:56 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 164, shannon wrote:The whole ISO is basically pushing Chrimi over absolutely nothing.
Hiding information that could help town and not even giving a good reason for doing so is "absolutely nothing" to you? Can you explain why that is? If you care at all about finding scum, it's a little bit strange to call this "absolutely nothing."
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Post Post #218 (isolation #22) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:57 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 173, Rocnix wrote:0x40, it appears you're now the target of two people's suspicion. I'm sure shannon has her own questions, but in the meantime...
What did you make of Chrimi's reaction and thenewearth's nonreaction to your accusations? Did your interpretation change when it became apparent that we're not going to lynch them for having alts?
I think the most scummy part about Chrimi's reaction is her refusal to explain why she can't just give the username instead of making such a big deal about it. thenewearth at least gave a reason for not giving the usernames of her alts, and even if it's a bullshit out-of-game reason that in my opinion should get her permabanned from the site, it's at least a reason that kinda makes sense.

My interpretation never changed when it became apparent that we're not going to lynch someone just for a minor reason like that, because that was apparent from the very beginning. I do however think that this, along with the refusal to give a good reason, makes Chrimi the best lynch candidate over anyone else at this point, and that is why my vote will remain on Chirmi for the rest of the day or until gives the username or a reason for why she can't.
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Post Post #222 (isolation #23) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:17 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 193, AstralFlare wrote:0x40: Same as Chrimi, but thoughts on people besides Chrimi.
In post 215, Jibs wrote:Out of me, shannon, imp, and rocnix, who is most likely to be scum?
I'm gonna read the thread again more thoroughly when I get home, but as for now, nothing from them really stands out as all that AI to me. I have a very minor townread on Jibs, implosion, and Rocnix, because those 3 have contributed the most so far in my opinion, so shannon would be the scummiest out of those, but not by much.
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Post Post #223 (isolation #24) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:20 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 219, Chrimi wrote:I already gave you a reason why I can't. Remove your vote, or find a real reason why I'm scummy.
What reason? And saying that your meta is useless is not a valid reason, because that's simply not true.
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Post Post #229 (isolation #25) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:29 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 225, Chrimi wrote:Please find something game related to talk about or I'll be forced to replace out, as I'm getting extremely tired of this behavior.
Replacing out is probably the most pro-town thing you could possibly do in this game. Because you're in an SE slot, there's a good chance that the player replacing you won't be a VI.
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Post Post #233 (isolation #26) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:21 am

Post by 0x40 »

Jibs, could you explain how you got the impression that I am "100% scum?" I don't believe I've ever mentioned how likely it think it is that she's scum. Also, why are you encouraging her to stay? This is extremely anti-town in my opinion, because getting this selfvoting scumclaiming althiding VI upgraded to what could potentially be a non-VI playe would be the best thing to happen to town this game by far. Please retract your statement on hoping she doesn't replace out. As town you should be hoping for the exact opposite.
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Post Post #236 (isolation #27) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:13 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 234, Jibs wrote:I'm not quite sure what you are saying here but I think you misread my post. I agree that you have never given a likelihood for Chrimi being scum.
Sorry, I believe I mistyped that. You seem to think that I am "100% certain Chrimi is scum," which is far from the case here. What makes you think that I am that convinced of having caught scum?
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Post Post #237 (isolation #28) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:46 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 234, Jibs wrote:Chrimi is hard to get a read on, but I think it would be even harder to read a replacement. She is starting to post reads/make cases, and I think that will make her alignment clear as the game goes on.

To be honest, it feels like you are playing a role here. Like you are trying to imitate an enraged townie rather than actually being an enraged townie. My scumread on you is genuine, lets call it 37% scum. I don't see that going down unless you post about the rest of the game. I apologize if my tone makes it seem like I want you to chat with me--that's not my intention. If you want me to vote for Chrimi, or anybody that isn't you, you need to post reads on the other players in the game. I should be back on in 20 hours or so.
I don't really see how a replacement would be any harder to read than Chrimi. In my experience, a VI is often much harder to read, because everything they do that would normally be a scumtell can often also be explained by them just being a VI doing VI-y stuff.
Not sure what you mean by "playing a role." Could you elaborate on that? I'm not enraged, just a tad annoyed by the fact that someone that I have a slight townread on can't see the value in getting Chrimi replaced, and has a huge scumread on me for reasons that don't make much sense in my opinion.
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Post Post #241 (isolation #29) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:13 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 230, Jibs wrote:There are four people voting/scumreading you for it, you think three of them are town, and you just... don't care? Like why aren't you calling me/imp/rocnix stupid?
I just don't think it's that serious. They have yet to make even a half-decent case against me. Do you think town me would be reacting differently to this than I've reacted? Why would town me feel the need to call my voters stupid?
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Post Post #242 (isolation #30) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:19 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 240, Rocnix wrote:0x40 -- Jibs didn't say you were 100% certain, but was trying to say why tunneling Chrimi right now is bad
even if you were 100% certain.


Why are you so upset about hidden meta? This is my first game on the site; I have zero meta. Is that any different from hiding an alt?
Of course it's different. The fact that you have no meta is a bad thing for town, because it makes you harder to read, but that can't really be helped. Chrimi, on the other hand, does have a meta, but is refusing to let people see part of that meta for bogus reasons.
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Post Post #245 (isolation #31) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:14 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 243, Jibs wrote:nice to policy
And finally something that's actually really alignment indicative is said. A lynch for reasons other than trying to lynch scum is only nice for scum. You are the scummiest right now by far in my opinion, and we're not policy lynching anyone this game for any reason. That will only benefit scum.
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Post Post #246 (isolation #32) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:14 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 244, Rocnix wrote:The deadline is in about 10 days, so I'm assuming there's time.

0x40, could you please post a readlist?
Working on one right now.
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Post Post #251 (isolation #33) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:32 pm

Post by 0x40 »

Here are my reads so far:
Jibs: Seems to be extremely overconfident in some of his reads, putting shannon at 31% scum for very minor reasons, and townreading Rocnix at 19% scum for seemingly no reason at all. He thinks policy lynching is a good enough of an idea to bring it up, which is insane from a town perspective. Lynching based on policy rather than lynching whoever is the most scummy is extremely anti-town. He wants Chrimi to not get replaced and doesn't give a good explanation why. 32% scum.

Chrimi: Isn't really scumhunting much, is very selective in the questions she chooses to answer, selfvoted during rvs, votes implosion for some strange reason, and doesn't seem to have much of a read on anyone. 30% scum.

thenewearth: Pretty much all her posts are completely useless. Seems to have basically no reads whatsoever on anyone, and has done next to no scumhunting. 27% scum.

shannon: Doesn't seem to have any reads on anyone either, but seems to at least trying to scumhunt. 23% scum.

implosion: Hasn't really given much of a read on anyone since post #33, but that's kinda understandable considering that not much has happened in this game so far. 23% scum.

AstralFlare: Is supposedly working on a readlist that will be posted today. Been actively scumhunting. 22% scum.

PenguinPower: Makes a reasonable case against Chrimi in #110. Has a readlist that makes sense. 20% scum.

Rocnix: Has a readlist that's almost identical to PenguinPower's. Not much else to go by. 23% scum.
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Post Post #253 (isolation #34) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:45 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 248, Chrimi wrote:Oooh, Jibs is the scummiest in your opinion now? Are you going to switch votes to him, or continue voting me on the alt thing anyways?

I also find it ironic that you're talking about people making a half-decent case on you, yet you continue to vote me over the fact that I have alts.

Calling someone VI for their RVS vote is just silly. If anything, your push on me has been hugely distracting for town and definitely to the detriment to the game as a whole. As the mod stated, try to attack the argument, not the player. Pretty sure wishing for another player to replace out is similarly attacking the player.

On another note, let's say I'm not a player with five years of experience, but instead just a VI. Why would you want to policy lynch me before we get into the day enough to gain any information? Policy lynches are usually done because of a significantly bad playstyle that will hurt town in the long run. Me not wanting to give the names to my alts for non-game related reasons isn't harmful to town. And even if it was, are you saying it's harmful enough to town to justify a policy lynch by page 10?
I want to hear more from Jibs before making a decision on moving my vote or not.

I'm not voting you because you have alts.

Calling someone a VI for not really making an rvs vote, other than that self vote that you unvoted like 3 posts later, is a perfectly valid reason. I don't think wishing for better players that aren't VIs doesn't count as an attack against said VIs.

Being a VI has nothing to do with having x years of experience. Maybe you should go read the wiki page that you just linked yourself instead of pretending that you know what a VI is.
When did I ever say that I wanted to policy lynch you? (Nowhere, because I don't)
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Post Post #254 (isolation #35) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:48 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 252, shannon wrote:Also, for what it's worth - meta isn't necessarily helpful to town. I won my first time as scum, quite comprehensively with both of us still alive. Next game, one of the players was the moderator from my scum game, who knew all my tells and tricks from watching me do it ... and he town read me all game, we made it to MYLO, and I won again, as scum. Meta doesn't always help town.
That doesn't mean that it never helps town, either. Having access to more of a person's meta is strictly better than having access to less, because you can make more better reads. I really don't get how this is such a hard consent to grasp for some people.
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Post Post #290 (isolation #36) » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:01 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 289, Jibs wrote:That doesn't make me mafia.
Acting like you know more about people's alignment than you should is a scumtell, because only scum could really know everyone's alignment at this point.
In post 289, Jibs wrote:My reasons were fine.
The reasons were valid, but very minor. Certainly not something that should add up to 31 scum%. Did you have any other reasons to scumread shannon at that point that you haven't mentioned?
In post 289, Jibs wrote:I think policy lynching is a terrible idea, which is why I said we can't do it.
You said that policy lynching me "might be nice," and "absolutely cannot afford to
right now
" seems to imply that it could be a good idea later. Can you explain why you even bought up policy lynching if you think it's such a bad idea?
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Post Post #293 (isolation #37) » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:28 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 255, Chrimi wrote:0x40, next post: "We should policy lynch Chrimi for not giving her alts up"
When did I ever say anything about policy lynching you?
In post 255, Chrimi wrote:Yes, telling a player you wish they would replace out is fucking rude.
I'm posting in this thread not because I want to be nice to people and make friends or whatever, but because I want to win the game. I want you to replace not because I want to be rude, but because I think it would benefit town more if you did.
In post 255, Chrimi wrote:I consider myself a pretty decent player.
Let's just agree to disagree on this one. I don't think convincing a VI that they're a VI is really worth the effort.
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Post Post #295 (isolation #38) » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:37 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 280, PenguinPower wrote:You never answered my question about your prior experience, so I'm going to assume you have prior experience and go with
Pretty sure I answered this when you asked me the first time. I've played a good amount of irc mafia, but this is my second game of forum mafia. I'd say I'm about as experienced as an IC, but not as familiar with the site meta, and not as used to the much slower pace of forum mafia compared to irc.
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Post Post #300 (isolation #39) » Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:22 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 297, Rocnix wrote:Shannon, I have a bit of an oddball question for you (or anyone who would like to throw in their two cents): Who do you think is in the most danger of being nightkilled?
Could you explain why you are asking this?
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Post Post #347 (isolation #40) » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:17 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 346, PenguinPower wrote:is that L-1?
It is. Some VIs can't even bother to announce when their vote puts someone at L-1 apparently.
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Post Post #348 (isolation #41) » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:30 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 321, implosion wrote:she isn't a VI. She's playing fine.
Do you still think she's not a VI? Is putting someone at L-1 without declaring that it's L-1 something that players that know how to play the game would do?
In post 321, implosion wrote:Do you not consider this to have anything to do with policy lynching?
I don't think that lynching a VI for being a VI would be a policy lynch unless that was the primary reason.
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Post Post #359 (isolation #42) » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:38 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 351, AstralFlare wrote:Can I have your thoughts on TNE?
She has done basically nothing this game other than having scumreads on people without really giving a reason as to why. Reading her ISO now and like 40 out of her 47 posts are completely useless. She definitely needs to start contributing, and explain her post #343, if she doesn't want to be the lynch today.
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Post Post #364 (isolation #43) » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:25 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 352, Chrimi wrote:I didn't realize it.
Could you please refrain from voting people without checking the vote count first? People die when they are put at L-0. You were one off from accidentally hammering, which is a bit concerning to say the least.
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Post Post #421 (isolation #44) » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:38 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 420, implosion wrote:@0x40: is there any reason other than the "nice to policy" post from Jibs that caused this shift from you between 237 and 245?
Not really.
Because you had been calling him town, then suddenly call him the scummiest player in the game in 245 seemingly for one thing,
I think that reason alone was big enough to justify that.
and then six posts later in 251 you suddenly have a plethora of reasons for scumreading Jibs that seemingly weren't influencing you at the time when you posted 237.
Plethora? I only had 3 reasons.
1. Policy thing.
2. Extreme overconfidence backed up with silly reasons.
3. Wants a less than average SE to not replace.
1 and 3 were influencing me at the time. 2 is a minor reason compared to the other two, that I noticed after I viewed his ISO, which was after I called him scummy in #245.
You heavily cite his reads list seeming overconfident, but that same reads list had already been posted when you made post 237, yet you were calling him slight town at that point. I'm curious about the mental process behind your read on Jibs forming in that span of time.
Overconfidence could easily be explained by not being very good at mafia, so I didn't think much of it when I said I had a slight townread on him. The other 2 reasons are why he's my strongest scumread at the moment.
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Post Post #430 (isolation #45) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:14 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 424, Chrimi wrote:
Intent to hammer.


Please claim your role, 0x40.
Not claiming. Hold off on your hammer until we hear from Rocnix's replacement.
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Post Post #433 (isolation #46) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:58 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 432, PenguinPower wrote:Why not? You realize that's the standard practice at this stage?
Standard practice just before being hammered. I can't really be hammered until Drone has given his reads.
For me to claim right now would be anti-town, because it increases the odds of scum nightkilling a pr by process of elimination, or pretty much guarantees it if I'm a pr and claim.
The most important thing by far right now is Drone's reads, and we still have 52 hours left on the day, so it's not like we're in a hurry to hammer.
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Post Post #434 (isolation #47) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:59 am

Post by 0x40 »

Chrimi, PenguinPower, could you two clarify as to why you think it's a good idea to claim right now? Preferably in that order.
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Post Post #436 (isolation #48) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:32 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 435, PenguinPower wrote:I've already stated why...
Because you've seen other people do it? Can you explain yourself why it would be pro-town for me to claim right now, or anti-town for me to hold off on it now, and claim later if it's still relevant by then?
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Post Post #438 (isolation #49) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:11 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 437, Drone wrote:Do you have anything to hide..?
Of course I want to hide my role. I want this day to end with scum having as little information about who the prs are as possible, and unless I'm convinced I'm getting lynched if I don't, I'm not claiming.
In post 437, Drone wrote:Or you need to plan what claim you want to roll with?
That doesn't make sense. Scum wouldn't need to think much about their d1 fakeclaim.
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Post Post #439 (isolation #50) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:15 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 437, Drone wrote:This is the best I can do for now and I'm really sorry.. I did read but I can't keep up, I forgot a lot of details..
Then read the thread again and again until you have something more useful to say. It's 18 pages, not 180, so it's not like it's a lot of effort you have to put in. You should have at least something to say about every player.
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Post Post #442 (isolation #51) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:08 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 440, Jibs wrote:We are all super paranoid about that possibility because of this:
In post 440, Jibs wrote:...which feels like it is trying to coordinate a claim.
Could you just clarify if you're being serious here or not?
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Post Post #446 (isolation #52) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:31 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 444, Drone wrote:Cut your rude and pestering attitude out.
And no. I won't.
Sorry to inform you, but I can't get into business all that quickly, you might have a memory of w/e you want.
Mine is limited.
Mine is to start working my way, and yours is to calm down.
"I'm not gonna bother giving reads on more than 2 players, because the guy that criticized me for not doing so sounded rude to me!"
"Getting reads is way too difficult for me, because my memory is so limited I can't remember anything meaningful!"

Yeah. You may as well claim scum then, because I doubt that even a pr claim would save you from getting lynched if you refuse to give reads on more than 2 players.

UNVOTE: Chrimi
VOTE: Drone
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Post Post #450 (isolation #53) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:17 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 448, implosion wrote:Yet again, you're taking a very black and white approach to things - not everyone has the time,
It's an 18-page thread. About an hour should be plenty of time. He has a little less than 48 hours.
motivation
If he's town, wanting get scum lynched and win the game would be plenty of motivation.
or attention span,
I don't think reading an 18-page thread once or twice requires that great of an attention span.
even as town, to re-read over a game several times. There are plenty of good players on this site who will replace into games and then not even read them because it's more productive to focus effort on deducing reads from actually interacting with players.

He literally made his first post 3 hours ago; only having reads on two players at that point is not a scumclaim.
I don't have much of a problem with him not having a read on everyone yet. He's scummy because he refuses to give any more reads at all, and his reasons are literally worse than thenewearth's reason for not wanting to give any townreads.
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Post Post #452 (isolation #54) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:35 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 449, shannon wrote:1) Flips give info to scum, so if you're holding out and someone hammers you anyway, scum will know your role.
So? Like I said, I'll claim when I'm convinced I'll get lynched if I don't. If I claim and don't get lynched, that's just giving scum free info.
In post 449, shannon wrote:3)You haven't identified another candidate for scum. At least give us someone else to look at?
After Drone, next best lynch candidate is thenewearth, third best is Jibs, fourth, Chrimi.
I've made a case against Jibs and Chrimi, and the thenewearth case is similar to Drone in that she refuses to give reads, and has a really bad reason for it. Is there anything else I should clarify on my opinion on those three?
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Post Post #453 (isolation #55) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:42 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 451, PenguinPower wrote:Claim and/or present an alternative wagon. Please do something other than tunneling someone else for little reason, especially someone who just came into the game. We are now less than 48 hours to deadline.
Reads are pretty much the only thing we can base our votes on. Someone refusing to provide reads, and giving obviously made-up reasons for not doing so, is a pretty good reason to lynch them I'd say.
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Post Post #454 (isolation #56) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:56 pm

Post by 0x40 »

Drone's slot has also done some scummy things by the way of Rocnix literally copy-pasting someone's readlist and changing the wording a bit. Just compare her #161 to PenguinPower's #147. Order is identical, and reasons are the same but worded differently.
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Post Post #462 (isolation #57) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:16 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 461, shannon wrote:Yeah, please clarify why you've got four candidates there? Drone, TNE, Jibs, Chrimi. You've made cases on 3 and 4 you say, then there's Drone (a new case, I don't get how the new player is the scummiest for not giving reads, scummier than three existing players who you've already cased?
Drone is scummy because of refusing to give reads, and giving bullshit reasons for not doing so. Rocnix was scummy for copy-pasting PenguinPower's readlist and using her as her own, and doing pretty much nothing but echoing things other people have said, despite having experience playing mafia before. (#31)
In post 460, thenewearth wrote:You have very week cases though :/
Weaker than the pretty much nonexistent case on me?
In post 455, implosion wrote:0x, you have been asked to claim explicitly by more than half of the player list.

Claim in your next post, or I will hammer you.
Alright.
Claim: vt

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