Newbie 1732 [Game Over!]: InnocentVille

[Chrimi]

Oh hey, finally a scummer who's been around longer than me.

VOTE: Chrimi
Only scum votes themselves!

[Chrimi]

VOTE: Chrimi

Your terrifying display of circular logic indicates evil and/or a sense of humor!

Shit! I've been outed!

/poofs

[Chrimi]

UNVOTE:

Spooky, I don't want to be at L-2 already.

[Chrimi]

The general consensus on selfvoting is that you should basically never do it as town. In joking situations like this it's generally not the end of the world, but you're likely to earn some extra attention, so it's not advisable. If you are actually under pressure, you absolutely should not selfvote as town. It can accelerate a mislynch that may or may not have even happened in the first place, and denies the town the valuable information of an extra person being on the wagon, among other reasons. Scum will sometimes selfvote when they're at L-1 (one vote away from being lynched), if they see their lynch as inevitable, for much the same reason (it can deny the town information). But as town there are, with very few exceptions, never really any good reason for it.

---

@shannon, hello.
@AstralFlare: imp-losion isn't even in standard anymore so you don't get to complain :p.

I'm also willing to weakly call Chrimi town for now, but only very weakly. I'd also say AstralFlare is slightly town.

Self voting during RVS is a fun way to get some conversation started in my opinion :b

[Chrimi]

UNVOTE: Chrimi

To be fair, you did kind of start it. While amusing, confusing things by self-voting is probably not the best. You have the benefit of my doubt (for what little it's worth) until we've actually heard from everyone, though.

I know I started it. I was mostly joking. :u

[Chrimi]

Do you people have any experience with mafia? I'm fresh out of the clusterfuck which is Telegram Werewolf, which was what really brought me back after a year long hiatus. I'm a little more experienced now though, and hopefully a little better at catching the baddies.

If you check my join date, you can see I have 5 years experience playing mafia.

Also, I was joking

and

wanting to cause discussion.

[Chrimi]

Wait wait wait

Are you guys seriously taking my first post's RVS joking self-vote as somehow scummy?

I've had alternate accounts, as well, not that it matters. I've also played a shitton off-site. :s

[Chrimi]

@Rocnix: I went "quiet" because I'm not online 24/7, have other games, and prefer to pick up later on in D1 rather than earlier because I'm terrible at doing anything soon after RVS.

I'm curious as to how you were able to get a read (however mild) on Chrimi and I after two or three posts each. Is this purely based off tone?

The read on Chrimi is essentially based on tone. The read on you is because your jump onto the Chrimi wagon is a tad more conspicuous than the moves I'd expect scum to make at this stage of the game.

Yes, because self-voting and claiming to be scum in my first post during RVS on page one

isn't conspicuous at all

. :b

Anyways, if you're all looking into my meta so thoroughly (lol?), you should look at my early D1 play vs my late D1 play in my town games.

[Chrimi]

Wait wait wait

Are you guys seriously taking my first post's RVS joking self-vote as somehow scummy?

I've had alternate accounts, as well, not that it matters. I've also played a shitton off-site. :s

IMHO having an alt account totally matters in a game like this. It's not like you're playing a hunter instead of a mage and that gives you different abilities. Unless you're faking a whole other personality, an alt in mafia only serves to obscure yourself to get an advantage over players who might otherwise recognise your style and your tells.

What

I only mentioned alts because for some reason we're going through my meta during RVS?

[Chrimi]

I was quite literally doing the opposite of hiding behind alts by pointing out that I have an alt and telling you their name so you can go see more of my meta...

[Chrimi]

Rocnix and Chrimi, why aren't you voting?

Good question. It's RVS - why the passive play?

I self voted myself and now people are reading over every post I've ever made on the site. I wouldn't call this "passive" :b
I'm a bit preoccupied trying to get people to not think "Oh we caught scum in the first post cause they did this silly thing during RVS that draws attention to them!!" because I would hate to see them try this outside of a newbie game.

I was quite literally doing the opposite of hiding behind alts by pointing out that I have an alt and telling you their name so you can go see more of my meta...

Where did you give us the name? I don't see that.

Huh. I thought I did but guess not.

It's Viomi - I was much more aggressive on that alt than on this one, back when I used it.

[Chrimi]

Chrimi, why are you

still

not voting?

Because.. Not voting at this stage isn't scummy?

You guys do realize we're on page 3 right?

[Chrimi]

Not voting at this stage

is

in fact scummy. While it's true that we're on page three, it has been a Very Serious Game so far. We're pretty much out of RVS, and are already very much in actual discussion. Your vote would be valued here as a means to add pressure on someone, so we can gauge their response for any scumminess.

Because.. Not voting at this stage isn't scummy?

And something about the tone of this just strikes me the wrong way. It reads like you're trying really hard to avoid appearing scummy.

I really can't tell if you're joking or not. Honest.

And, it's called sarcasm? Look I'm doing it again.

The "tone" of my words is literally "I don't know what the fuck you're talking about because you're not making any sense and this is obvious shit."

[Chrimi]

Chimi are you burnt?

Yes.

Crispy Bacon

[Chrimi]

Chrimi: when can we expect you to have better reads? How many mafia have voted on you/scumread you?

When I have reads at all.
When we're not on page three so I have any actual information to go off of.
Also when we're actually out of RVS, though it seems like we're getting close to that.

I don't know how many mafia are on me. I'm assuming that they're checking my meta because they're newer players who don't realize it doesn't matter when it comes to RVS. I consider their actions NAI (Not alignment indicative)

[Chrimi]

I've had alternate

accounts

, as well, not that it matters. I've also played a shitton off-site. :s

I was quite literally doing the opposite of hiding behind alts by pointing out that I have

an alt

and telling you their name so you can go see more of my meta...

First you say you have multiple alternate account

s

, and now it's only "

an

alt?"
VOTE: Chrimi
You will explain this contradiction, along with giving the usernames of all your other alts, if you want this vote to be elsewhere today.

[Chrimi]

My post broke. Ugh

Anyways, is this game an elaborate prank or are you actually going to stick your vote on me the entirety of day one for having alternate accounts? Most players on this site have alternate accounts. It's not scummy, or against the rules.

[Chrimi]

And yes, I do have two alts, but the second one is literally a Hydra between this account and the first alt, so i don't really consider it an actual alt.

[Chrimi]

Anyways, is this game an elaborate prank or are you actually going to stick your vote on me the entirety of day one for having alternate accounts? Most players on this site have alternate accounts. It's not scummy, or against the rules.

I honestly can't tell if you seriously believe in what you're saying right now or if you're just trying to set up a strawman here. Nobody is voting you just for having alts. Nobody is saying alts are against the rules. I'm voting you for contradicting yourself and then refusing to give the username of your other alt.

Yes but how is not wanting to give the names of all my alts scummy?

To me Chrimi's talk of alts is uninteresting. A more interesting post is this:

Chrimi, why are you

still

not voting?

Because.. Not voting at this stage isn't scummy?

You guys do realize we're on page 3 right?

This reads to me as potentially scum-motivated in how defensive it is. The question was why she isn't voting; saying that "not voting at this stage isn't scummy" doesn't actually answer that question, it just deflects it. The second sentence sort of implies the answer of "it's page 3 and there's not enough for me to be confident on to vote," but if that's how she feels she simply could have answered the question that way.

"ggg-guys, don't defend yourselves! thats not what mafia is abouuuut"
"sh-she didn't word her answer the specific way I wanted her to"
"they were just asking the question c-cause they were curious, not because they're scumhunting!"

gg guys.

[Chrimi]

implosion, I shouldn't have to explain this to an

experienced player

, but here you go anyways:

Here in Mafia, when people ask questions, it's generally to try and help find scum. So I usually answer questions with the assumption that they think whatever action they're questioning me about is scummy.

VOTE: implosion for pretending you don't already know this.

[Chrimi]

So then town shouldn't defend themselves?

Mm, I'm going to go ahead and say you're wrong.

[Chrimi]

Yes, questions are generally to try to find scum, but that doesn't mean that if someone asks you a question they already think you're scum.
Especially in the context of a newbie game, it's very silly to assume that being asked a question means that you're being scumread by the questioner.

"Why would you assume you were being scumread???"

In this case it's obvious that you were being scumread (since AstralFlare was voting you), but that's not the point of what I said.

"I mean, it was obvious you were being scumread, but..."

Man, contradictions in the same post. This is astounding!

[Chrimi]

implosion- you can't honestly tell me you (as an experienced player) think the entire playerlist reading my meta because I self-voted RVS, and assuming that because I don't want to give the names of every one of my alts- is actually useful in some way, right?

Actually, maybe you can, considering you just asked "Why would you defend yourself as town???"

[Chrimi]

He was asking you about why you weren't voting yet. Which is a totally legitimate question, which deserved an answer.

I gave it an answer. You whined about the answer not being worded the way you like.

[Chrimi]

What's with the attitude Chrimi?

People are searching through my meta and starting an extremely early wagon on me for doing literally nothing scummy. It's amusing.

Yes but how is not wanting to give the names of all my alts scummy?

Do you have any reason to not give that information? I think seeing more of your meta will help town make more informed decisions on who to lynch, and continuously refusing to give that information without even giving a reason for doing so is very much an anti-town play.

I think you overestimate how useful meta is. It's not very much an anti-town play, especially since I made that alt

specifically for trying a different playstyle.

Meaning, I'm already trying to play very differently in those games, so the meta is going to be exponentially useless.

I gave it an answer. You whined about the answer not being worded the way you like.

Where did you answer his question? You never actually explained why you're not voting in post #58, you just said that it isn't scummy, something nobody even implied was the case.

Mm, if it isn't scummy, then take your vote somewhere else.

Contradictions aren't actually as good of a scumtell as you'd think they are in cases like this. To discern a town post from a scum post, you have to discern whether the post was motivated by town intent or scum intent. A contradiction like Chrimi mentioning that she has multiple alts then only mentioning one of them is extremely unlikely to be scum motivated - scum would not have motivation to intentionally lie in that way, both because it's very unlikely that hiding that extra alt account's information is actually going to help them as scum and because people may notice the discrepancy and call them out (but moreso the first). It's not indicative of Chrimi's alignment because it's far more likely that Chrimi simply misspoke or, as she said, simply didn't consider the hydra worthy of mentioning.

Hiding alts is more harmful to town than it is to scum, because it makes it harder to get accurate reads. I guess it could be argued that that information also helps scum get pr reads, but the benefits of town having that information far outweighs the drawbacks of scum having that information. Hiding an alt is almost strictly an anti-town play, and is therefore scummy.

This is just plain wrong, nothing else to say about it.

[Chrimi]

I think you overestimate how useful meta is. It's not very much an anti-town play, especially since I made that alt specifically for trying a different playstyle. Meaning, I'm already trying to play very differently in those games, so the meta is going to be exponentially useless.

This makes no sense. If it's useless, why bother hiding it? The only legitimate reason for town to hide information is if the information is more beneficial to scum than to town, which is obviously not the case here.

Yes, but this information isn't beneficial to anyone.

Mm, if it isn't scummy, then take your vote somewhere else.

That's not the reason I'm voting you for. Why are you trying to deflect his very legitimate question?

Why are you voting me?

This is just plain wrong, nothing else to say about it.

Nothing else to say about it? How about explaining why it is wrong, if such an explanation exists?

It's incorrect. Hiding alts isn't scummy.

[Chrimi]

Here's my take on Chrimi so far:

Self-voting is a good way to get discussion going:

Spoiler:

Self voting during RVS is a fun way to get some conversation started in my opinion :b

No, wait, it's a joke:

Spoiler:

I know I started it. I was mostly joking. :u

No, wait, it's both:

Spoiler:

Do you people have any experience with mafia? I'm fresh out of the clusterfuck which is Telegram Werewolf, which was what really brought me back after a year long hiatus. I'm a little more experienced now though, and hopefully a little better at catching the baddies.

If you check my join date, you can see I have 5 years experience playing mafia.

Also, I was joking

and

wanting to cause discussion.

Oh crap, I caused discussion...about me!:

Spoiler:

Wait wait wait

Are you guys seriously taking my first post's RVS joking self-vote as somehow scummy?

I've had alternate accounts, as well, not that it matters. I've also played a shitton off-site. :s

I have an alt. Here's the name:

Spoiler:

I was quite literally doing the opposite of hiding behind alts by pointing out that I have an alt and telling you their name so you can go see more of my meta...

It's Viomi - I was much more aggressive on that alt than on this one, back when I used it.

No, I have two alts, but I only consider it one because reasons:

Spoiler:

And yes, I do have two alts, but the second one is literally a Hydra between this account and the first alt, so i don't really consider it an actual alt.

No, I have multiple alts, and I can't understand why you want me to give the names:

Spoiler:

Yes but how is not wanting to give the names of all my alts scummy?

Defensive vote because implosion challenged me:

Spoiler:

implosion, I shouldn't have to explain this to an

experienced player

, but here you go anyways:

Here in Mafia, when people ask questions, it's generally to try and help find scum. So I usually answer questions with the assumption that they think whatever action they're questioning me about is scummy.

VOTE: implosion for pretending you don't already know this.

I'm doing nothing scummy, but I'm going to decide what information benefits the town and not answer questions:

Spoiler:

People are searching through my meta and starting an extremely early wagon on me for doing literally nothing scummy. It's amusing.

I gave it an answer. You whined about the answer not being worded the way you like.

Where did you answer his question? You never actually explained why you're not voting in post #58, you just said that it isn't scummy, something nobody even implied was the case.

Mm, if it isn't scummy, then take your vote somewhere else.

Leaning scum.

Leaning dumb.

[Chrimi]

chrimi: do you have an actual case on implosion? Does he play like this as town? Do you have any townreads?

No, obviously I don't have an "actual case". It's page five fml

I've never played with him so I don't know what he plays like, and I'm not about to go dig up his meta for silly shit like this.

I was mostly just curious as to why he's making up reasons to paint me scummy when he's experienced enough to know that it isn't. Feels like he's following in Penguin's footsteps.

[Chrimi]

Here's my take on Chrimi so far:

Self-voting is a good way to get discussion going:

Spoiler:

Self voting during RVS is a fun way to get some conversation started in my opinion :b

No, wait, it's a joke:

Spoiler:

I know I started it. I was mostly joking. :u

No, wait, it's both:

Spoiler:

Do you people have any experience with mafia? I'm fresh out of the clusterfuck which is Telegram Werewolf, which was what really brought me back after a year long hiatus. I'm a little more experienced now though, and hopefully a little better at catching the baddies.

If you check my join date, you can see I have 5 years experience playing mafia.

Also, I was joking

and

wanting to cause discussion.

Oh crap, I caused discussion...about me!:

Spoiler:

Wait wait wait

Are you guys seriously taking my first post's RVS joking self-vote as somehow scummy?

I've had alternate accounts, as well, not that it matters. I've also played a shitton off-site. :s

I have an alt. Here's the name:

Spoiler:

I was quite literally doing the opposite of hiding behind alts by pointing out that I have an alt and telling you their name so you can go see more of my meta...

It's Viomi - I was much more aggressive on that alt than on this one, back when I used it.

No, I have two alts, but I only consider it one because reasons:

Spoiler:

And yes, I do have two alts, but the second one is literally a Hydra between this account and the first alt, so i don't really consider it an actual alt.

No, I have multiple alts, and I can't understand why you want me to give the names:

Spoiler:

Yes but how is not wanting to give the names of all my alts scummy?

Defensive vote because implosion challenged me:

Spoiler:

implosion, I shouldn't have to explain this to an

experienced player

, but here you go anyways:

Here in Mafia, when people ask questions, it's generally to try and help find scum. So I usually answer questions with the assumption that they think whatever action they're questioning me about is scummy.

VOTE: implosion for pretending you don't already know this.

I'm doing nothing scummy, but I'm going to decide what information benefits the town and not answer questions:

Spoiler:

People are searching through my meta and starting an extremely early wagon on me for doing literally nothing scummy. It's amusing.

I gave it an answer. You whined about the answer not being worded the way you like.

Where did you answer his question? You never actually explained why you're not voting in post #58, you just said that it isn't scummy, something nobody even implied was the case.

Mm, if it isn't scummy, then take your vote somewhere else.

Leaning scum.

I'm really glad none of these points have anything scummy, or even useful.

Yes, self-voting during RVS is usually done jokingly or to cause discussion among newer players who don't understand it was done jokingly.

Obviously.

It's not "oh crap", it's, "You guys are really going to take this seriously enough to search through my meta? l o l"
The alt thing is a total misrep. I only have one actual alt. The second one is called a

hydra

. If you don't know what a hydra is, take your vote off until you've read enough wiki to understand what one is. You can even ask your friendly IC over there.
Actually, my vote was because implosion was making a very bad case which doesn't make sense from a player with 6 years under their belt. Not defensive. I even said this in my original post. More misrep.
And finally, having alts and refusing to share their names isn't scummy.

Get over it.

[Chrimi]

Sorry for the quadruple post, but I feel like maybe the new players don't understand something, so I'd like to explain it.

Here on MS, games usually reach 100 pages pretty easily. The deadlines are that long

for a reason.

Jibs, congratulating implosion on getting me to say something about alignment, as if we were into the game enough that I had been avoiding it for any particular amount of time, is asinine.
implosion attempting a serious case on me before page 5 is asinine, hence why I don't take his case seriously at all.
Penguin assuming that an SE telling him that information doesn't benefit town is somehow scummy, is asinine. I'm telling you that alts don't benefit town much as an SE, regardless of my alignment.
0x40, I do have a good reason, and you whining about it when having alts isn't game related in any way is asinine.
Jibs, assuming shannon is scum because she has literally nothing to go on

because it's page five

is asinine.
Astroflare is just being asinine in general, especially with the misreps after I explained that one is a fucking hydra.

Basically, you're all being

extremely

asinine because you don't understand the game. Which is fine, but don't go voting me because you don't understand what is or isn't scummy.

Yes, but this information isn't beneficial to anyone.

Speak for yourself. I think it could be beneficial, and others have shown interest in it as well. If you don't have a good reason not to give the username of this alt, why are you being so defensive on this?

So um, you're wrong.

It's incorrect. Hiding alts isn't scummy.

Refusing to give information that could be of benefit to town, regardless of how insignificant you think that benefit is, is very much a scumtell unless there's a good reason to keep that information hidden.

Still wrong!

Why are you voting me?

You start the game off by self-voting and claiming scum. Not only is this scummy, but also so incredibly stupid that it basically confirms you're a VI. A VI getting mislynched is a lot less bad than someone who knows how to play the game getting mislynched, so you being a VI is a valid reason to lynch you even though a VI has the same chance of being scum as everyone else here, as you won't be of as much use to town compared to a non-VI player.

So. So wrong. Self-voting and claiming scum during fucking

RVS

isn't scummy or stupid.

After that, you just unvote instead of using your vote to put pressure on potential scum, further proving that you are a VI, and further proving that you have little interest in finding scum.
You then go on to do basically no scumhunting whatsoever, refusing to answer people's questions, and make up your own arguments that you refute instead of the actual arguments that people have made.

You're going to whine about me not voting during RVS? Nobody puts any pressure anywhere during RVS, because people don't take RVS seriously. At least, people who know what they're doing.
If I'm defensive and answer questions, you claim me of being overly defensive scum and not scumhunting. If I'm offensive and make arguments against other players, you say I'm refusing to answer other people's questions.
I am directly refuting the arguments you make, and letting you know that they're

wrong

. When people's "cases" on me are "You did something silly during RVS!! im gonna meta the shit out of you and then claim it makes you scummy!! alts?? alts are scummy if you don't tell us all their names!!"
I can guarantee you implosion has at least one alt, but I don't see you pressuring them for it.

Yeah, I'd say that my vote is pretty well-placed where it is right now, but if you think there's someone else that my vote should be on, I would like to know who that is and for what reasons.

Your vote is terrible and useless, just like every point you've made so far. Try again.

PEDIT: PP: "I-It's not about the case I just posted that makes you scummy, it's uh... It's all of it together! Waffling and defensive, even though I'm not going to provide any examples."
Yeahuh, keep that up buddy. You'll paint me scummy someday, I promise.

[Chrimi]

Oh, thenewearth probably also has an alt or two, FYI.

I just happen to be the only one that mentioned it because you all decided to meta me for an RVS vote

[Chrimi]

I have uh...

2 alts and... 5 hydras?

inb4 "Tell me all their names or my vote is staying on you!!!"

[Chrimi]

The alt thing is a total misrep. I only have one actual alt. The second one is called a hydra. If you don't know what a hydra is, take your vote off until you've read enough wiki to understand what one is.

Why don't you go read the wiki? If you did, it should be abundantly clear that a hydra is a form of alt.

And finally, having alts and refusing to share their names isn't scummy. Get over it.

Now you're just repeating yourself. It's scummy. You can say that it's not all you want, but unless you can explain why it isn't scummy, I don't think you're convincing anyone. Why can't you even give a reason as for why you can't give the name of your hydra alt?

Burden of proof is on the person making a claim. You're making a claim it's scummy, so you give the reasons why.

[Chrimi]

Oh, and for why I won't give the name of the Hydra alt:
It doesn't matter and its' play isn't indicative of how I usually play at all. Same with the alt I did give the name for.

[Chrimi]

I am directly refuting the arguments you make, and letting you know that they're wrong.

Where have you refuted anything that I've said so far? Simply stating that something is wrong is not "refuting" anything. You actually have to prove that I'm wrong to refute anything.

I would recommend reading my posts.

[Chrimi]

Oh, and for why I won't give the name of the Hydra alt:
It doesn't matter and its' play isn't indicative of how I usually play at all. Same with the alt I did give the name for.

Bullshit. You've made it super clear that it matters, or you would've just given the name instead of hiding it and defending yourself doing so.

Uhh.
No. It still doesn't matter, and I'm still not going to give the name.

[Chrimi]

Oh, and for why I won't give the name of the Hydra alt:
It doesn't matter and its' play isn't indicative of how I usually play at all. Same with the alt I did give the name for.

Bullshit. You've made it super clear that it matters, or you would've just given the name instead of hiding it and defending yourself doing so.

Just saying buuuut...

Alts are alts for a reason

How is that hard to explain?

Literally "Alternate account trying to hide the main account"

its NAI at worst

[Chrimi]

Uhh.
No. It still doesn't matter, and I'm still not going to give the name.

If you can explain how giving the username is anti-town, then go for it. You've so far completely failed to do so, whereas I have made valid arguments for why it is pro-town.

Your arguments for why it's pro-town are wrong.
It's not anti-town either.

See what thenewearth said on the subject. NAI stands for Not Alignment Indicative, btw.

[Chrimi]

It's really not game related at all and I find it rude for you to push me on the fact that I have alts.

[Chrimi]

I have uh...

2 alts and... 5 hydras?

And what are the usernames of those accounts?

Oh my god I called it

implosion, you're our IC. Please explain to the newer players why people don't just give out the usernames of their alts, and why alts exist in the first place, since they don't seem to want to listen to thenewearth.

[Chrimi]

Your arguments for why it's pro-town are wrong.
It's not anti-town either.

See what thenewearth said on the subject. NAI stands for Not Alignment Indicative, btw.

If you can't point out any flaws in my arguments yourself, then maybe you should ask someone like the IC to do so. It's a bit much to expect a VI to know how arguments work, after all.

Ah yes, pointless animosity. Mmmm. Delicious.

[Chrimi]

Can you explain how hiding information about your meta is of benefit to town

Because meta is bullshit and shouldn't be the basis of a case?

Like... If I hear 1 more meta out of this game I'm gonna stop playing nice and be the most annoying tunnel-driven asshole you can be

META IS NOT A SCUMTELL NOR IS IT A TOWNTELL

ITS ONLY A SUPPORTING ARGUEMENT

But tne

Nice you is cute ;;

[Chrimi]

Because meta is bullshit and shouldn't be the basis of a case?

Like... If I hear 1 more meta out of this game I'm gonna stop playing nice and be the most annoying tunnel-driven asshole you can be

META IS NOT A SCUMTELL NOR IS IT A TOWNTELL

ITS ONLY A SUPPORTING ARGUEMENT

If someone does something often as scum that they never do as town, then that's often a pretty good scumtell. Even if it is as you say, and meta can only be used as a supporting argument, then why not give the usernames of your alts so that town can use that information for supportive arguments?

It's not a good scumtell, because that player

knows

their own meta. Plus, maybe the player is just wanting to play differently because they want to improve, and do something they usually only do as scum.

[Chrimi]

PEDIT: PP: "I-It's not about the case I just posted that makes you scummy, it's uh... It's all of it together! Waffling and defensive, even though I'm not going to provide any examples."
Yeahuh, keep that up buddy. You'll paint me scummy someday, I promise.

Sorry...just saw this. I think you read my post wrong. It's not about each individual "spoiler" point I put in my post, it's all of them together. To me, you seem waffling in your statements and overly defensive. My examples are in the post.

I didn't defend against one of those points, I defended against all of them. So for you to say "It's all the points together!" When I defended against all the points together is asinine.

[Chrimi]

Chrimi: Let me clarify my question above. Why is tne talking to 0x40 instead of you in this section of the game?

Because 0x40 was trying to paint me as scummy for something that isn't scummy. Players often will jump in and make a rebuttal against points made against someone else if they think they're very wrong.

[Chrimi]

VOTE: AstroFlare
For the obvious misrepresentation in 105.

[Chrimi]

Can we start a Chrimi question deflection list? I'll start.

Q48(AF): [...] Chrimi, why aren't you voting?
A56: I self voted myself and now people are reading over every post I've ever made on the site. I wouldn't call this "passive" :b
I'm a bit preoccupied trying to get people to not think "Oh we caught scum in the first post cause they did this silly thing during RVS that draws attention to them!!" because I would hate to see them try this outside of a newbie game.

Q71:(0X4X): First you say you have multiple alternate accounts, and now it's only "an alt?"
VOTE: Chrimi
You will explain this contradiction, along with giving the usernames of all your other alts, if you want this vote to be elsewhere today.
A73: Anyways, is this game an elaborate prank or are you actually going to stick your vote on me the entirety of day one for having alternate accounts? Most players on this site have alternate accounts. It's not scummy, or against the rules.
A74: And yes, I do have two alts, but the second one is literally a Hydra between this account and the first alt, so i don't really consider it an actual alt.

I gtg soon, but the general trend I've seen is her counter questioning her questioner to avoid answering the original question. In 102 as well. Also no time for fancy formatting and quotes, so again if someone could do that thank you.

This is just straight up misrep.
The first one (Q48) and (A56) are done stupidly to make it sound like I'm misdirecting. Here's the question I was actually answering:

Rocnix and Chrimi, why aren't you voting?

Good question. It's RVS - why the passive play?

I self voted myself and now people are reading over every post I've ever made on the site. I wouldn't call this "passive" :b
I'm a bit preoccupied trying to get people to not think "Oh we caught scum in the first post cause they did this silly thing during RVS that draws attention to them!!" because I would hate to see them try this outside of a newbie game.

Obviously I was answering "It's RVS - why the passive play?"
As if self-voting and scumclaiming is passive play.. oh boy.

In response to Q71: Of fucking course I'm not going to give the names of all my alts, implosion has recently explained why and you can divert your attention there.

[Chrimi]

It's not copy and paste if you line up my answer to the wrong question, and act like me directly answering 71 was somehow dodging. :b

[Chrimi]

Moreso, you claim I'm deflecting those questions, but..
You asked "Why aren't you voting?" and I replied

I'm a bit preoccupied trying to get people to not think "Oh we caught scum in the first post cause they did this silly thing during RVS that draws attention to them!!" because I would hate to see them try this outside of a newbie game.

How is that deflecting? I answered your question.

[Chrimi]

Astral Flare - No one else is really sticking out to me as scummy at this point, I think I'll go re-read everything.

PEdit: Actually Chrimi makes an interesting point about the misrep. And this part he quoted from AF is kinda hilariously dramatic
"You will explain this contradiction, along with giving the usernames of all your other alts, if you want this vote to be elsewhere today."

That's why I was having trouble taking it seriously and laughing for the whole page.

[Chrimi]

PP: Why aren't you voting? You said in Post 147 that you were unvoting your RVS but wasn't voting as you had nowhere better to place it. And yet, you read Chrimi as scum in the very same post.

Because of post 81:

I believe Chrimi is at L-2 but I'm not certain; I'd recommend not voting her until we get another vote count.

I assumed that was implosion acting in IC capacity.

So Penguin, the way cases work is you give a bunch of examples and reasoning for why you think someone is scummy.
If that person defends against

literally every single one of your points,

you have two options.

1. Refute their rebuttal, make more points
2. Accept their defense against your points as satisfactory and drop it

You are doing neither. You seem to accept that your points were invalid, yet you hold your scumread and case over me as "Well, it's a general gut feeling of all your posts in general. They just give me this

vibe

, mannnn." I would appreciate if you made some actual points, or dropped it because you get no information from lynching someone with no case or actual points against them.

[Chrimi]

I have dropped it (post 162)). Do you see my vote on you?

Yet you answered AstralFlare's question to "why aren't you voting?" with "Chrimi's at L-2 and the IC says we shouldn't vote her until there's a vote count."

PP: Why aren't you voting? You said in Post 147 that you were unvoting your RVS but wasn't voting as you had nowhere better to place it. And yet, you read Chrimi as scum in the very same post.

Because of post 81:

I believe Chrimi is at L-2 but I'm not certain; I'd recommend not voting her until we get another vote count.

I assumed that was implosion acting in IC capacity.

You're implying that once the votecount happens, you will vote me (or that you would be voting me if implosion didn't say what he did).

[Chrimi]

Also penguin, sorry for being quiet. I was a bit busy yesterday, but am more free for now. Question: Are you still voting for AstralFlare (I couldn't find an unvote skimming thorough the archive, please correct me if my info there is wring)? If so, why?

I'm not. It was an RVS vote. I am currently withholding my vote until the next vote count.

This doesn't sound anything like you've dropped it.

So give a real response to this please:

So Penguin, the way cases work is you give a bunch of examples and reasoning for why you think someone is scummy.
If that person defends against

literally every single one of your points,

you have two options.

1. Refute their rebuttal, make more points
2. Accept their defense against your points as satisfactory and drop it

You are doing neither. You seem to accept that your points were invalid, yet you hold your scumread and case over me as "Well, it's a general gut feeling of all your posts in general. They just give me this

vibe

, mannnn." I would appreciate if you made some actual points, or dropped it because you get no information from lynching someone with no case or actual points against them.

[Chrimi]

Yet you answered AstralFlare's question to "why aren't you voting?" with "Chrimi's at L-2 and the IC says we shouldn't vote her until there's a vote count."

He brought up my comment in 147, which I was addressing. At that time, the only reason I wasn't voting you

was

because of what the IC said. Up until 175 that was still the case.

Between 147 and now there have been a few things that have made me rethink my positions, which also include my position on you.

Ah, alright.

I appreciate the clarification. :b

[Chrimi]

@IC: How do you differentiate between anti-town townie and anti-town scummie?

Because I'm having a hard time deciding which Chrimi is right now.

I don't appreciate the needless hostility nor the animosity. Try again?

[Chrimi]

@IC: How do you differentiate between anti-town townie and anti-town scummie?

Because I'm having a hard time deciding which Chrimi is right now.

Answering your questions directly and pointing out your misrep is anti-town.. how? :u

Just because you disagree with someone (or can't seem to understand what they're talking about) doesn't make them anti-town.

[Chrimi]

In fact, the whole:
"You said you were trying to cause discussion and then joking is a contradiction!!" is just a misrep too.

I said me voting myself and scumclaiming was to cause discussion, me unvoting and saying "Spooky, I don't want to be at L-2!" was a joke. When you started claiming it was scummy, I said I was doing both- Of course, you assumed I meant I was doing both about the former, excluding the latter entirely.

Of course, scum will jump on anything to make a wagon out of..

[Chrimi]

0x40, it appears you're now the target of two people's suspicion. I'm sure shannon has her own questions, but in the meantime...
What did you make of Chrimi's reaction and thenewearth's nonreaction to your accusations? Did your interpretation change when it became apparent that we're not going to lynch them for having alts?

I think the most scummy part about Chrimi's reaction is her refusal to explain why she can't just give the username instead of making such a big deal about it. thenewearth at least gave a reason for not giving the usernames of her alts, and even if it's a bullshit out-of-game reason that in my opinion should get her permabanned from the site, it's at least a reason that kinda makes sense.

My interpretation never changed when it became apparent that we're not going to lynch someone just for a minor reason like that, because that was apparent from the very beginning. I do however think that this, along with the refusal to give a good reason, makes Chrimi the best lynch candidate over anyone else at this point, and that is why my vote will remain on Chirmi for the rest of the day or until gives the username or a reason for why she can't.

I already gave you a reason why I can't. Remove your vote, or find a

real

reason why I'm scummy.

[Chrimi]

You pressuring people into revealing who their alts are and being rude about it is much more likely to result in a permaban than thenewearth refusing to share information they aren't required to share.

I recommend you read the rules again.

[Chrimi]

I already gave you a reason why I can't. Remove your vote, or find a real reason why I'm scummy.

What reason? And saying that your meta is useless is not a valid reason, because that's simply not true.

1. There are many players who believe meta is bogus.
2. Alternate accounts are made to try different playstyles, or to enjoy people not knowing who your main is.
3. Me giving the username(s) of my alt(s) is completely pointless and doesn't help town or scum.

[Chrimi]

Please find something game related to talk about or I'll be forced to replace out, as I'm getting extremely tired of this behavior.

[Chrimi]

Chrimi there's something called "Ignoring the post" though

Plus a wise man once told me on some distant game ago

"You don't have to reply every time on shitty stuff, it just clumps the game up"

If this weren't a newbie, I would ignore him. Seeing as this is a newbie, I feel as an SE I shouldn't ignore newer players, rather I should correct them.

[Chrimi]

Hello Chrimi.

Please find something game related to talk about or I'll be forced to replace out, as I'm getting extremely tired of this behavior.

I've enjoyed playing with you, and I hope you don't replace out.

Thanks, and I probably won't.

I'm known for letting my frustration get to me though. I'm surprised they went through my meta and didn't figure that out :L

[Chrimi]

Wishing for someone to replace out because they don't want to give you the usernames to their alts?

Jesus Christ...

[Chrimi]

nice to policy

And finally something that's actually really alignment indicative is said. A lynch for reasons other than trying to lynch scum is only nice for scum. You are the scummiest right now by far in my opinion, and we're not policy lynching anyone this game for any reason. That will only benefit scum.

Oooh, Jibs is the scummiest in your opinion now? Are you going to switch votes to him, or continue voting me on the alt thing anyways?

I also find it ironic that you're talking about people making a half-decent case on you, yet you continue to vote me over the fact that I have alts.

Calling someone VI for their RVS vote is just silly. If anything, your push on me has been hugely distracting for town and definitely to the detriment to the game as a whole. As the mod stated, try to attack the argument, not the player. Pretty sure wishing for another player to replace out is similarly attacking the player.

On another note, let's say I'm

not

a player with

five years of experience

, but instead just a VI. Why would you want to policy lynch me before we get into the day enough to gain any information? Policy lynches are usually done because of a significantly bad playstyle that will hurt town in the long run. Me not wanting to give the names to my alts for non-game related reasons

isn't harmful to town.

And even if it was, are you saying it's harmful enough to town to justify a policy lynch by page 10?

[Chrimi]

Wait wait wait what's a VI again

Village Idiot.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Village_Idiot

[Chrimi]

0x40: "Jibs is scum for wanting a policy lynch!"
0x40, next post: "We should policy lynch Chrimi for not giving her alts up"

Next:
0x40: "Calling someone a VI for not really making an rvs vote, other than that self vote that you unvoted like 3 posts later, is a perfectly valid reason."
Um. What? Why is not voting during RVS scummy? There are several players that refuse to participate in rvs regardless of alignment.

Next:
0x40: "I don't think wishing for better players that aren't VIs doesn't count as an attack against said VIs."
Yes, telling a player you wish they would replace out is

fucking rude.

I consider myself a pretty decent player. You're of the opinion that I'm a VI while, ironically, following the exact definition of VI.

You tell me to read the wiki page for VI, so I will. I'll read it to you. Ready?
"Village Idiot (VI for short) is slang for a player who seems to habitually say or do the wrong things, then not understand the consequences of saying them. Most of the time, this tendency is due to inexperience with the game."
This is

exactly

what you're doing. You're telling another player to replace out unless they give you the names of their alts; This is totally rude and incorrect of you, and you don't seem to understand the consequences of saying them. I'm assuming this is due to your inexperience with the game.

Yes, wishing a player would replace out is an attack on that player and it's rude as fuck. Stop it.

The IC has already told you this alt stuff is bullshit and to drop it,

using their capacity as IC.

The moderator has asked not to personally attack people; I assume they were referring to us, partially because I did say some rude things but also because you're literally telling a player to replace out. Stop it or I will blacklist you from any game I play in or moderate for the rest of your time here on the site.

[Chrimi]

So, I've got an extreme read on 0x40. They're either really obvTown or they're fkn scum, but I can't really tell and I feel like my position is biased at the moment because of our recent interaction. I'll wait for more stuff to happen with other people today before I make a real read here. :u

I definitely appreciate implosion separating IC from not-IC stuff, as it makes him significantly more readable. However I feel like he's fence sitting

way

too much (maybe this is just because he's trying to mediate as IC). Light scumread from the fence sitting, but nothing at all serious enough to justify a vote or even a case.

Jibs is very interesting. I'd have to say this is a strong townread from me, and it's pretty easy to say so. His scumhunting isn't the best, but it definitely feels genuine at the very least. I find his whole saying "hello" to someone at the beginning of every post kind of strange, but that's definitely a playstyle thing and NAI as far as I can tell.

I can't read much on Rocnix at this point other than they're new and having trouble getting substantial reads because of it. As a result I can't get a read on them :L

shannon is a fairly okay townread of mine. I know this isn't popular opinion but her posts make sense, in general. The only real issue I have is post 51 (voting me for having alts ffs). Their reads (the few that they've posted) seem to line up with mine alright. I would like to see more content, and a full readslist.

Total null on thenewearth because 90% of their content has been similar to mine; refuting this whole "alts are scummy!!!" thing. The other 10% seems joking or semi-serious at best. Can't wait for them to post stuff related to the game :u

I really dislike Penguin refusing to drop his case originally even after all his points had been responded to in full, but he has dropped it since and I appreciate it. However, his readslist pings me hard. Is it too early to call AstroFlare+Penguin scumteam? (Yes I'm partially joking here.) He's got a lot of nulls, and leaning town, and his only scum lean is on me (which I definitely can't agree with), so I really dislike his reads. Gonna go with scumlean for this one.

Speaking of AstroFlare:

Spoiler: Case

Not voting at this stage

is

in fact scummy. While it's true that we're on page three, it has been a Very Serious Game so far. We're pretty much out of RVS, and are already very much in actual discussion. Your vote would be valued here as a means to add pressure on someone, so we can gauge their response for any scumminess.

Because.. Not voting at this stage isn't scummy?

And something about the tone of this just strikes me the wrong way. It reads like you're trying really hard to avoid appearing scummy.

Total misrepresentation. I still don't know how the fuck you're hearing tone from a text-based game, but my tone was obviously sarcasm. Not voting during RVS isn't scummy, and I considered us still in RVS because the only people who thought they were "out" of RVS were making dumb votes based on my RVS vote.

To clarify, it makes it seem like you will only do stuff because that will make you look unscummy.

Yes, because I'd selfvote and claim scum in my first post in order to look unscummy and blend in.

Penguin has done well, nothing, but I don't think that's uncommon for a game five pages in?

Yet I'm scum for not voting by page 3, right? :b

Chrimi: To be honest she sounded very much like outraged townie in her play at the end of page three. Which was fairly solid to me in terms of tone as well as content. But then I completely disagreed with everything she said on Page 4. Her tone shifted as well to become even more defensive, going from outraged townie to afraid scum. I'm happy with where my vote is right now, at least until she continued dodging and stopped supporting her wildest claims. (eg end of 99) (More on this later.)

Page four? Let me see what page four was about... Oh right, it was mine and implosion's disagreement. Let's see what you have to say about that:

On Chrimi's vote on imp: This is OMGUS. It seems from her explanation that this was purely based on a meta disagreement.

Ohhh, right. My disagreement with implosion, which took up most of page four, was based on a meta disagreement. But of course, at the same time, according to you, I was dodging and my "tone" was changing from outraged townie to afraid scum.
Riiight.

Other SEs, what do you think of this:

Here in Mafia, when people ask questions, it's generally to try and help find scum. So I usually answer questions with the assumption that they think whatever action they're questioning me about is scummy.

"Please discredit her playstyle!"

VOTE: AstralFlare

[Chrimi]

What the fuck does "open minded about how the game is playing out" mean?

I'm sorry you feel like I'm playing that way, but you're wrong. :u

[Chrimi]

Hello Chrimi!

Tne is apparently tunneling shannon, which is open minded in terms of being wildly at odds with thread sentiment. I guess it's closed minded in the literal sense that she refuses to change her mind.

I don't mean to discount your reads, especially when I'm reading the game so poorly. I will definitely keep af and pp in mind as possible lynches. If you are town, I think it is likely that we will need your vote in order to lynch scum, and I am very happy that you took the time to post a read wall.

If you are scum, your partner is......... Rocnix! Idk why.

So TNE is more open-minded in the sense that she's okay going against thread sentiment.. Yet my read on shannon being town, which is also against thread sentiment, is closed-minded?

It sounds more like you're just confbiasing anyone that thinks shannon is scum because you think shannon is scum.

6. Chrimi (SE) - Still think she's frustrated town.

I post a real case full of content and an in-depth readslist, and this is all you can say about me? :L

0x40 as town. That's the surprise done with. His style is really confrontational and provocative, far far more so than I would expect from scum. He says he's played lots of IRC mafia. I've played a lot of IRC werewolf. I can say that one of the most common plays I see good town doing is pointing fingers at everyone day one to add pressure. This is the famous reaction test, although I have doubts about how efficient it is in a slower forum format. This is also what he is doing now. Nitpicking, but 108 and 114 are good. This hammering for concrete info is good town play. I have doubts about him wanting everyone's alts, but it can't be denied that his 254 is good.

He hasn't said anything about this being a reaction test, stop giving him an out. He's not "pointing fingers at everyone and putting pressure" like you seem to think he is. He's hard tunneling a single player because he doesn't understand that having alts is NAI, same with not wanting to share said alts. You're giving a looot of credit where it isn't due.

Implosion as very weak scumlean. I don't know. On reading his ISO, his recent posts seem waffly. 182 in particular. It is flippy floppy sit-on-the-fence, with him looking unwilling to really commit to anything, while simultaneously trying to reserve the "it's late and I'm sleepy" backdoor if he gets called out. In fact, after another readthrough I seem to notice he's just following the flow of the game, following the majority, lynching someone when others do, townleaning someone when everyone else does. Like right now, he says he's re-evaluating me, after Chrimi voiced her opinion that I was scum. His posts thus far have also been more I agree/I disagree. There's a lack of question marks. Not sure if this is a playstyle thing, but even if it is I think he should be more active in scumhunting.

While I agree with fence-sitting, him re-evaluating you after I told him you're definitely scum and posted a case is super town of him.
I can definitely agree @ the lack of question marks though.

Chrimi is town. Lol. This is based on her 259 readlist and her tone over the past few pages. I don't think scum would build such an awful case on me as well. More on that later.

Scum build awful cases very often, in fact if a case is awful that is usually because it's wrong. The real thing you want to look for is if a case looks like it's coming from genuine town scumhunting, or if it's coming from scum trying to make up reasons to get someone lynched.

TNE as very weak scumlean until I get that Shannon case. It's been 6 posts. She's switched her opinion from totoro-san big that it's Shannon/PP, but now has her vote on 0x4x? I'd like an explanation. Her average postlength looks to be about 30 words, and she hasn't posted a readlist yet. Not helping town.

It's called a joke. And while her posts are small and not huge on content, this is:
1. Per her meta
2. To be expected in most games who are this far into Day One

The abnormality in this game is how much content the rest of us are posting with so little information to go off of, really.

PP as uh, null? I can't tell what you guys find so scummy about him. He hasn't done anything really attention grabbing, his short exchange with Chrimi felt pretty meaningless.

Now this just pings scumteam for me hardcore. No real specifics at all or information, like the rest of your reads had. "He hasn't done anything really attention grabbing" even after making a case on me, tunneling into it before suddenly switching to someone else seemingly out of the blue before I even posted a readslist?

FTR I really do strongly disagree with the characterization of Chrimi as an anti-town VI. She's providing a lot of reasoned content, and just because you disagree with that content does not make her a VI, or anti-town. This refers to both AstralFlare and 0x40. And I really do think in both of these cases it is mostly just disagreement.

I said she was anti town because she dodged questions and didn't support her claims, not because I disagreed with her. Also her tendency to shove aside anyone who FoSed her as asinine didn't make her look any more townie. Towns try to advance the game, not keep it at a standstill. That's changed since, and I'm glad.

You're misunderstanding.

I haven't changed at all.

I wasn't calling people asinine for FoSing me, and I didn't dodge any questions. I didn't make any claims to support, because I was too busy dealing with several players (mostly 0x40) telling me that I was scum for

having alts.

You saying I was anti-town was totally misrep, and now you're misrepping why you did it in the first place. Yuck.

kk point by point rebuttal rebuttal

Spoiler: rebute that shit

Speaking of AstroFlare:

Not voting at this stage

is

in fact scummy. While it's true that we're on page three, it has been a Very Serious Game so far. We're pretty much out of RVS, and are already very much in actual discussion. Your vote would be valued here as a means to add pressure on someone, so we can gauge their response for any scumminess.

Because.. Not voting at this stage isn't scummy?

And something about the tone of this just strikes me the wrong way. It reads like you're trying really hard to avoid appearing scummy.

Total misrepresentation. I still don't know how the fuck you're hearing tone from a text-based game, but my tone was obviously sarcasm. Not voting during RVS isn't scummy, and I considered us still in RVS because the only people who thought they were "out" of RVS were making dumb votes based on my RVS vote.

You can read tone from text. You can tell from the choice of words and the sentence length whether someone is happy or angry, indignant or afraid. You can tell from how much they write whether they're being defensive or not. You can tell from all of these whether someone is town or scum. Here's a helpful tutorial: http://literarydevices.net/tone/.

Okay, sure, I guess that makes sense. It was just a misrepresentation of how the tone sounded, because obviously, it was sarcasm or annoyance. I even put a question mark to denote the "tone" picking up near the end like you would in a question. So yeah, I'll buy that you can read into tone, but you were still attempting to misrep me.

To clarify, it makes it seem like you will only do stuff because that will make you look unscummy.

Yes, because I'd selfvote and claim scum in my first post in order to look unscummy and blend in.

I was referring only to the *tone* of that single line.

So the tone you supposedly read from that single line contradicted directly with my actions... Great? (That's more sarcasm btw.)

Penguin has done well, nothing, but I don't think that's uncommon for a game five pages in?

Yet I'm scum for not voting by page 3, right? :b

I never voted you because you didn't vote by page 3. That was just a question. I voted you because you were dodging questions, not supporting your claims, and calling everything you didn't like asinine.

Talked about the asinine and dodging questions / not supporting claims earlier in this post, not going to touch on it again (though I would REALLY love you to point out some questions I supposedly "dodged", considering you keep bringing it up).

"I never voted you because you didn't vote by page 3. That was just a question."
So let me get this straight. I haven't done shit, and Penguin hasn't done shit. You ask a haughty question (twice, mind you, bolding it the second time) in which you demand to know why I'm not voting at this point. I assume you were claiming not voting at this point was scummy- otherwise, why ask the god damn question? You don't push Penguin on it at all. The end.

Chrimi: To be honest she sounded very much like outraged townie in her play at the end of page three. Which was fairly solid to me in terms of tone as well as content. But then I completely disagreed with everything she said on Page 4. Her tone shifted as well to become even more defensive, going from outraged townie to afraid scum. I'm happy with where my vote is right now, at least until she continued dodging and stopped supporting her wildest claims. (eg end of 99) (More on this later.)

Page four? Let me see what page four was about... Oh right, it was mine and implosion's disagreement. Let's see what you have to say about that:

On Chrimi's vote on imp: This is OMGUS. It seems from her explanation that this was purely based on a meta disagreement.

Ohhh, right. My disagreement with implosion, which took up most of page four, was based on a meta disagreement. But of course, at the same time, according to you, I was dodging and my "tone" was changing from outraged townie to afraid scum.
Riiight.

Tone I already talked about. You can disagree with someone, while simultaneously dodging their questions and changing your tone? I don't get you at all here.

Again, please quote any questions I supposedly dodged if you're going to make claims like this.. As far as I know I've had a sarcastic tone for most of this game, so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about here.

Other SEs, what do you think of this:

Here in Mafia, when people ask questions, it's generally to try and help find scum. So I usually answer questions with the assumption that they think whatever action they're questioning me about is scummy.

"Please discredit her playstyle!"

I was saying I didn't think this was a good assumption, so I was asking people who are more experienced than me at the game if this is standard.

Yes, but look at the thing you were asking more experienced players about. Here, I'll separate it for you:

Here in Mafia, when people ask questions, it's generally to try and help find scum. So I usually answer questions with the assumption that they think whatever action they're questioning me about is scummy.

I literally stated here that

I personally

assume when you're questioning someone about an action, it's generally because you think it was a scummy action. You asking other SEs their opinion on it totally reads like "Hey other experienced players, discredit this thing she personally does so I can continue pushing it even though it's a playstyle thing!"

Rebuttal rebuted. Care to try again?

[Chrimi]

If you are scum, your partner is......... Rocnix! Idk why.

(For reference, he was talking to Chrimi)

Okay, I have to question this. Not the fact that he considered me a viable scumpartner for Chrimi, but that he couldn't give evidence.

This feels like a bit of an overreaction. I don't think town takes my bs association this seriously.

New players take that kind of stuff seriously. He took my "Spooky, I don't want to be at L-2!" seriously as well. (Which is what lead to me saying it was a joke.)

It's definitely NAI for Rocnix.

[Chrimi]

OK it's wine o'clock so I'm sitting down and trying to find something to post about because frankly I can't make head nor tail of this game so far. I suck at D1 I think it's fair to say.

The only thing I'm wondering is whether Chrimi is hiding a bit behind playstyle. Like, by using lots of accusatory tones and getting a bit dramatic, she's building in an automatic defense, something along the lines of 'you just don't like how I do things' or 'you just don't get it'. That's basically all I got.

This is legitimately how I play

[Chrimi]

0x40, next post: "We should policy lynch Chrimi for not giving her alts up"

When did I ever say anything about policy lynching you?

Yes, telling a player you wish they would replace out is fucking rude.

I'm posting in this thread not because I want to be nice to people and make friends or whatever, but because I want to win the game. I want you to replace not because I want to be rude, but because I think it would benefit town more if you did.

I consider myself a pretty decent player.

Let's just agree to disagree on this one. I don't think convincing a VI that they're a VI is really worth the effort.

Wanting to lynch me for having alts is wanting a policy lynch.

And Jesus Christ we've asked you to attack the argument and not the player so many times,

fucking listen.

[Chrimi]

VOTE: AstralFlare Refuse to participate and you'll fail to sway my vote.

[Chrimi]

VOTE: AstralFlare Refuse to participate and you'll fail to sway my vote.

How am I refusing to participate? I'm not defending myself from your case, yes, but I'm participating in other ways. I see more value for town in doing this rather than pointlessly defending myself.

Suit yourself.

[Chrimi]

We have Chrimi on AF, AF on TNE ,TNE on 0x40, and 0x40 on Chrimi in a round-robin of OMGUS and early game grudges. I think one of our scum is here, waiting for the point when *fine*, if town demands it, they'll abandon their grudge and vote on a popular wagon. So I need to ask who's doing the most to keep this thing going?

If you think my vote is OMGUS, you need to read my case over again.

[Chrimi]

Yeah because making it easier for scum to NK the towniest player is the greatest contribution

bzzt

But as long as you continue contributing a shitty amount, scum doesn't need to kill you because you won't be helping out.

The goal of this game isn't to live longer than the rest of town, it's to kill the scum.

VOTE: thenewearth

Yes, AF is still scum.

[Chrimi]

is that L-1?

It is. Some VIs can't even bother to announce when their vote puts someone at L-1 apparently.

she isn't a VI. She's playing fine.

Do you still think she's not a VI? Is putting someone at L-1 without declaring that it's L-1 something that players that know how to play the game would do?

Do you not consider this to have anything to do with policy lynching?

I don't think that lynching a VI for being a VI would be a policy lynch unless that was the primary reason.

The IC asked you to shut the fuck up with the VI stuff, so I suggest you do.

On another note, yes it is L-1, and thank you @Penguin for pointing it out, as I didn't realize it.

[Chrimi]

Also, yes, lynching a VI for being a VI falls

perfectly

under the definition of policy lynching. So again, shut the fuck up.

[Chrimi]

Yeah because making it easier for scum to NK the towniest player is the greatest contribution

bzzt

But as long as you continue contributing a shitty amount, scum doesn't need to kill you because you won't be helping out.

The goal of this game isn't to live longer than the rest of town, it's to kill the scum.

VOTE: thenewearth

Yes, AF is still scum.

@Jibs: This was my response to her three or four posts in that area.

[Chrimi]

Hello Chrimi.

Could you weigh in here? I feel like you are better at reading waaay to into texts than I am. I usually consider all of that stuff pure princess bride nonsense.

By princess bride nonsense, I assume you mean Wine In Front Of Me (WIFOM)

[Chrimi]

Hello Chrimi.

Could you weigh in here? I feel like you are better at reading waaay to into texts than I am. I usually consider all of that stuff pure princess bride nonsense.

By princess bride nonsense, I assume you mean Wine In Front Of Me (WIFOM)

Yes.

How sure are you here that tne is scum? I think the game will be very very hard to win if we mislynch. My feeling was that she wouldn't want to play this way as scum because it would be very hard on her scum partner and likely to get her lynched D1. Whereas I can definitely see why she would play this way as town.

But see, that just becomes WIFOM too.

If she knows people will think she wouldn't play this way as scum, guess how she's going to play as scum?

[Chrimi]

Yeah because making it easier for scum to NK the towniest player is the greatest contribution

bzzt

But as long as you continue contributing a shitty amount, scum doesn't need to kill you because you won't be helping out.

The goal of this game isn't to live longer than the rest of town, it's to kill the scum.

VOTE: thenewearth

Yes, AF is still scum.

You going to reply to this, TNE?

Also

@Mod: Please prod Rocnix for us ^^

[Chrimi]

I actually hate answering that because that kinda destroys the point

Sooooo

Thanks :/

Your logic here is horrible and implosion already explained why. Please stop withholding very useful information from town

[Chrimi]

Jibs - Regarding the lynch pool.

To narrow it down, I'd like to lynch within the round robin, excluding TNE because his response to the wagon on him seemed so towny. So that's AF, 0x40, and Chrimi. I think that we might get useful info by picking one of these, since there's been a lot of interaction around them.

I am back and forth on Jibs and Implosion. They're both a bit too smooth for my liking, and I can't tell their alignment. Certainly, a flip from them would be revealing in some way, but I'm not sure whether it's worth the risk because they'd both be great assets to town *if* they're town.

I can't support a lynch on TNE (as above), or Rocnix (because it would just be policy at this point).

Sounds good to me

VOTE: AF

[Chrimi]

Hello all.

VOTE: 0x40. I believe that is L-2.

pp: do you think the tne wagon had scum on it? I believe it was AF, Rocnix, implosion, Chrimi, and myself at the end.

tne: same question.

Chrimi: you still tne+af?

Nah, I just dislike tne's playstyle. Not sure who AF could be with.

[Chrimi]

Intent to hammer.

Please claim your role, 0x40.

[Chrimi]

Intent to hammer.

Please claim your role, 0x40.

Not claiming. Hold off on your hammer until we hear from Rocnix's replacement.

Regardless of who Rocnix's replacement is or what they do, I'm still holding intent to hammer.

Either way, you must claim your role. The sooner you do, the more time we have to respond to it before deadline.

Claim.

[Chrimi]

Claim: vt

VOTE: 0x40

Crossing my fingers, boys and girls.

[Chrimi]

If you have an investigative role, please target someone in your 'dunno' zone. Not someone you think is definite scum or town, but someone you're unsure of. The aim is to get as much info as possible.

Disagree.

Investigate someone you think is definite town, that way you don't waste tomorrow tunneling them, thanks.

[Chrimi]

EBWOP: definite scum**

[Chrimi]

Hello all.

I agree with 465 and I have no idea what implosion is trying to crumb in 469.

This is my last post. I can't keep playing this game--it's too stressful, and I haven't been able to sleep enough or get much done while I've been playing. I feel bad about quitting, but I really need to be selfish on this one. Sorry.

To everyone playing, thank you for the good times.

TO MY REPLACEMENT:
Good luck, and pay attention to all of the cryptic stuff that isn't in this game.

See you, Jibs! Thank you for playing!

[Chrimi]

That's.. very interesting? So we've got a JK, BP or both.

[Chrimi]

That's.. very interesting? So we've got a JK, BP or both.

Wait...why just those two? Could there not also be a Doctor?

That's.. very interesting? So we've got a JK, BP or both.

Wait...why just those two? Could there not also be a Doctor?

There totally could be a doctor.

Yeah, I forgot doctor is a possibility. :b

[Chrimi]

The reason for wanting town to consolidate is so we don't have a no-lynch and end up with no information on Day Two, no?

And considering I'm town, I find it hard to believe implosion was trying to signal me to hammer :L

[Chrimi]

- Chrimi would be my second suspect, I got a mixed read on her. Her words sounded like town, but her voting pattern on day 1 could make sense for scum. And her role speculation post today was a bit weird too.

FoS: Chrimi

Me forgetting this setup might have a doctor is suspicious? Oh boy.

[Chrimi]

Ugh I missed the button, this is implosion 501 -

"shannon, I think calling for consolidation is still relevant even with those additional votes on 0x; it wasn't clear that the wagon was going to take off (I didn't interpret your 415 as saying you were going to vote 0x specifically), and just looking at the vote count before I posted there were three singleton votes, one 2-vote wagon, one 3-vote wagon, and one non-vote - hardly consolidated".

The reason for wanting town to consolidate is so we don't have a no-lynch and end up with no information on Day Two, no?

OK, so Implosion, Chrimi - -

Implosion's post above (and Chrimi's defense of Implosion) states that the reason for asking for consolidation is to avoid the possibility of a no lynch at end of D1. This is fine in and of itself, it makes sense to vote *someone* rather than no one. The points I have a problem with are as follows:

1) I flat-out don't believe that implosion didn't realise I was going to vote 0x40. I had narrowed it down to three candidates, and stated I wanted to see the VC first. The only reason to see a VC first is, IMHO, to make sure you're not going to accidentally hammer. Otherwise, why does it matter what the votes are? The other two of my candidates had only one vote on them each, ergo, I was waiting to make sure that the L-2 wagon on 0x40 really was L-2. I think Implosion is a close reader and I think he would have noticed this signal.

2) Implosion's point above about the wagon distribution makes sense if you look at the VC in 417 alone, but not if you look at the context. The two votes on TNE were the remainder of a wagon that was disbanding, remember? One of the two votes on TNE was part of the 'round robin' four players all voting one another, and the other vote was the AFK Rocnix. I don't believe Implosion thought L-3 on TNE would be a plausible, growing wagon, let alone a competing wagon to the L-2 on 0x40. Especially since two of the votes on 0x40 happened within ten posts of Implosion calling for us to consolidate.

3) Implosion calls the wagons 'hardly consolidated', but I said that we were

starting

to consolidate of our own accord. Again, immediately prior to my checking the VC, there were two votes on 0x40 in quick succession. This to me suggests that we were getting organised around one candidate.

4) Why, if the priority to lynch and get info, did implosion ask 0x40 questions, and not add his vote? Especially since 0x40 was at L-2, and Implosion didn't consider this a 'sure' wagon? An info seeking vote could have really helped put the pressure on 0x40 to give us useable stuff instead of just attitude.

I'm keen to hear anyone else's thoughts on this.

This is interesting, but if anything it's grasping at straws. A lot of this is "I feel like", and to me, it feels like you're trying to make a case out of nothing. I don't really have a strong read on implosion, and I'm not going to defend against any of these points individually, but in general I feel like if implosion was wrong it's NAI.

[Chrimi]

Me forgetting this setup might have a doctor is suspicious? Oh boy.

Why would it be weird for someone to see a scumslip in that?

How is it a scumslip? If anything it's a "I'm obviously not a doctor" slip

[Chrimi]

Me forgetting this setup might have a doctor is suspicious? Oh boy.

Why would it be weird for someone to see a scumslip in that?

How is it a scumslip? If anything it's a "I'm obviously not a doctor" slip

Initially I thought that forgetting the doctor might have been due to Chrimi having one particular scum role, but then I looked at the matrix and saw that there could be other town PRs with that role, so nope, not a scum slip.

Well you're wrong because

Claim: Town 1-shot BP

Not sure why scum tried to kill me but oh well.

[Chrimi]

This means if you're a protective role you better save my sweet ass tonight.

[Chrimi]

By protective role I mean jailkeeper because we don't have a doc.

[Chrimi]

I like your wagon

VOTE: PenguinPower

[Chrimi]

@ tne: I really need you to explain your reasoning for demanding that roleclaim. It doesn't make sense to me right now and I'm inclined to agree with Shannon.

@Chrimi: I need you to explain your reasoning for the claim too. What made you conclude this was the optimal moment for it?

Because we might have a jailkeeper which means I could be a conftown who gets to survive for a while

Scum knows whether we have a jailkeeper or a tracker now. If it's a tracker, then I'll be dead tonight. If it's a JK, then there will be an NK or someone else will die tonight.

And anyways Drone.. I understand if you're new, but.. I'm an un-cc'd claim. We just went over this in my last newbie game.. Claiming BP is a 3/4 chance of getting immediately counter claimed if I were scum.

[Chrimi]

Alrighty, Chrimi ISO examined. TL;DR, a few very minor things bothered me, but overall it reads town.

The slightly bothersome things:
- Deflecting the question about not voting in 57
- Overall defensive tone, defending herself more than scum hunting (but not not-hunting, just really caught up in defending)

As per my meta.

[Chrimi]

Someone please tell me they can counterclaim Chrimi

Why, you don't want me to be town now? I'm hurt.

[Chrimi]

Chrimi did you receive notification that you'd been hit but survived? Or did you receive no notification and are assuming that you were hit since there's no NK?

BPs don't get notified that they'd been hit.

[Chrimi]

TNE I don't get it, so if I make guesses will you walk me through? In the spirit of helpfulness?

Here's what I've got -

Scum is unlikely to claim BP D2 because they'd have to explain why they are alive for the rest of the game, i.e why two shots weren't taken on them.

Scum are more likely to claim BP pre-LYLO because by then they'd have a better idea of whether such a claim was even plausible, because there'd usually be at least one PR flip. So like, if a doctor had flipped, no point scum trying to claim BP.

So the early claim makes Chrimi more likely to be town?

That's all I've got, am I on the right track?

So, if this is the case, why would tne advocate lynching Chrimi (BP)? An early BP claim is more likely to be town...why would we lynch a likely town? And how does this solve the game?

He's not advocating lynching me, check his vote.

@TNE: Stop voting Implosion, I don't know what you mean by PR solvable either.

[Chrimi]

Semi v/la, only very shitty mobile access for a couple days. Apologies

[Chrimi]

Intent to hammer if TNE doesn't give a satisfactory response.

[Chrimi]

Also lynch implosion plz

I'm starting to really like this option. And if he flips scum, we can lynch Drone next (and win??). Seriously, unless tne is playing us hard, imp/drone is starting to look like the obvious scumteam. And in that case, an implosion lynch is our best move now.

VOTE: Implosion

Lining up lynches.

The wagon on implosion is scum driven. Your un-CC'd claim says to get off of it and do something more useful. Like this.

VOTE: Cass

[Chrimi]

I really want to know @Chrimi if you're sticking with your BP claim?

1. Town has no reason to lie.
2. Scum knows that town has no reason to lie.

Yes, I'm sticking with my claim, because it's true. This should be NAI for you.

[Chrimi]

I really want to know @Chrimi if you're sticking with your BP claim?

1. Town has no reason to lie.
2. Scum knows that town has no reason to lie.

Yes, I'm sticking with my claim, because it's true. This should be NAI for you.

Well, it should be NAI, except that I'm conf-town at this point.

[Chrimi]

shannon, you're dumb. You don't lynch the un-cc'd claim.


If I'm scum, then scum has two goons. Do you know how many setups are possible with 2 goons?

Four. Out of those four, claiming BP would get you CC'd in THREE of them.

Therefore, claiming BP at this point as scum has a 75% chance of getting me KILLED.

I'm conftown. We just went over this in the last newbie I completed, except Wake88 was the BP, where I had to explain this several times to scum before I ended up lynching them.

Vote Count 2.2

Chrimi (3):

Wake88, Accountant, BlueBloodedToffee

BlueBloodedToffee (2):

rb, Chrimi

mzs (1):

RachMarie

No Vote (2):

LmkGuy, mzs

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 4:00 PM CST, which is in (expired on 2016-08-21 16:00:00).

So it would now be:
Chrimi: LmkGuy Accountant, BBT
BBT: rb, Chrimi, wake
mzs: Rach
No vote: mzs, pls correct me if I am wrong

This is wrong. Wake88 moved onto Accountant, not BBT. So it's:
Chrimi: LmkGuy, Accountant, BBT
BBT: rb, Chrimi
Accountant: Wake88
mzs: Rach


@Wake: Why Accountant over BBT, out of curiosity?

@LmkGuy: The main case behind lynching me seems to be that Day One, I said (as a gambit

and

before there were any claims) that if I survived until Day Two then I must be scum. If you don't remember much of day one...

Why am I a scumread?

@BBT: I've decided to answer one of your earlier questions in a better way, since you aren't asking anymore and seem intent on tunneling without reasons.
BBT wants to know why Wake88 was conf-town as soon as he claimed, and here's why.
1. The only way Wake88 would be scum is if it was Jailkeeper - Vanilla - Goon
2. If Mafia only has a goon, then from their POV there are four situations possible: Cop, Doctor + Tracker, Bulletproof + Tracker, Jailkeeper;
3. So scum!Wake88 claiming 1-shot without knowing what setup it is would be basically a 3/4 chance of

fucking suicide

.

So there you go, Wake88 has been conftown since the moment he claimed. That's why, obviously, they shot his vest rather than me. Case closed, can you move your vote somewhere useful now?

[Chrimi]

shannon, you're dumb. You don't lynch the un-cc'd claim.

EBWOP: shannon, your vote is dumb.

Trying to not be a total asshole this time around.

[Chrimi]

And oh my god why the

fuck

did you just claim Jailkeeper? That means you're the protective role that could have kept me alive... And instead you're going to throw that away, get NK'd tonight, and try and get me lynched today?

Award for most anti-town player goes to: shannon

[Chrimi]

gg scum, you managed to get the jailkeeper to claim without even lifting a finger.

Fucking facepalm. I take back trying to be nice and say your vote was dumb.

[Chrimi]

I mean fuck, you jailed TNE and there was a NK, and you're trying to lynch the claimed BP instead of TNE?

God fucking dammit I hate everything so much

@IC implosion: please explain things to shannon i need to go hang myself or something

[Chrimi]

I mean fuck, you jailed TNE and there was a NK,

EBWOP: there was no NK*

[Chrimi]

I mean fuck, the chance that you hit the scum making the NK is 50% compared to the 9% that you JK'd the person about to be killed. You should be hell-mary trying to get something out of TNE. I hate everything

[Chrimi]

I mean fuck, the chance that you hit the scum making the NK is 50% compared to the 9% that you JK'd the person about to be killed. You should be hell-mary trying to get something out of TNE. I hate everything

I thought about this wrong and those percentages are completely wrong and that point is invalid

But you're still trying to kill the fucking un-cc'd bp so

On another note, scum have a roleblocker and can now prevent shannon from jailkeeping, so now both your PRs are useless. GG

[Chrimi]

If she's vanilla town, I don't get why she claimed and her doing so has pretty much resulted in me outing my role, so yeah. (If she'd stayed quiet I could have gambited as a cop, but I didn't get that option. And Chrimi seems fairly experienced, moreso than me, so I think she would know that.

Excuse me? I didn't force you to claim. I think you claiming at this point is the stupidest fucking thing that could've happened to us today. Me claiming didn't result in you outing your role, what the actual fuck. You still could've even faked Tracker if you really wanted to gambit or do some shit.

[Chrimi]

From my POV, the options are:

1) Scum targeted Chrimi and she really is BP - in this case we have a roleblocker and goon, so my role is of little use given that everyone has worked out that I'm a PR
2) Chrimi is scum and fake claiming
3) Chrimi is town and fake claiming

Oh yeah, and if it's scenario one, it's

basically throwing the game

, but no biggy right?

Also, did you forget:

4) Scum targeted whoever you fucking jailkept?

I hadn't worked out that you're a PR. I didn't see a soft claim, not sure if anyone else did.

If she flips scum, come back to Cass tomorrow. If she's town, lynch TNE. That's the best I've got.

Don't forget to take the end of your claim post to line up some lynches!

Why shannon, why??

[Chrimi]

VOTE: shannon
Policy vote until shannon repents and I maybe replace out.

[Chrimi]

On another note, apologies for the spam.

TNE is scum, shannon is the worst town, implosion is good town. Find TNE's partner after lynching her for me if I get NK'd tonight, kthx.

[Chrimi]

Chrimi

Assuming your claim is real, scum would have known I was faking if I claimed tracker.

If your BP claim is TRUE, then based on my role, we have to be in A. That means scum has a role blocker, and there are only two options for roleblocker, A or 2... and by claiming BP so confidently and refusing to back away from it, you let scum know that we were not in 2. My claim just levells things for town so that they know too.

Also, I have an idea: I'm dead anyway, so lynch me today unless you're super sure about your scum choice. Then, instead of scum NKing me, they have to choose someone else - and that choice might be revealing.

(Yes I got out of bed just to write that)

No, stop trying to get us to lynch un-cc'd claims

And how the fuck was I supposed to know whether we had a tracker or a jailkeeper? Please stop blaming me for your shitty claim, thanks.

[Chrimi]

I mean fuck, if we lynch you today then the scum get the easy choice of NKing me as the BP. That doesn't reveal jack shit.

[Chrimi]

4) Scum targeted whoever you fucking jailkept?

Why would scum target fucking TNE?? She's been cryptic and anti town and generally unhelpful and scum

likes

that.

Also while on TNE I just think she's town who doesn't gaf too much about winning this shit. I mean it's consistent with her meta.

Sorry I'm pretty worked up

VOTE: TNE

[Chrimi]

On that note Chrimi while I do think you're probably town I don't like you calling yourself confirmed; you are not confirmed. Your claim could be a gambit, or you could be scum who was only planning on actually committing to the claim if no counterclaims appeared. That said I'm personally not interested in lynching you for the forseeable future. If we're lucky then shannon stopped the kill last night and you still have a bp shot.

A gambit that has a 3/4 chance of throwing the game?

No thanks. I'd hope you'd expect more of me than that.

[Chrimi]

Wtf is this game??

@Drone - you're not even trying anymore, or what? How am I bussing tne by making cases on you and explosion, having drone/imp/pp as scum top three and refusing to lynch her today? Was that a scumslip about you bussing her?

A jailkeeper claim, oh why... Oh my. I guess that means we don't lynch Shannon or Chrimi now.

Btw, I thought I had spotted breadcrumbing for tracker from shannon, but w/e. Doesn't matter anymore now.

So scum is either TNE, or whoever targeted her, right? Oh, or neither, if Chrimi was the target. Jeeze, this really isn't helping. Shannon just got herself needlessly nk-ed is what it looks like to me.

To explain further why I claimed - I am looking at the game from the perspective of scum, who have more info than we do. And there have been a few people commenting that my case on TNE looked like I was acting on information that they didn't have, ergo, the thought I was a PR of some kind.

Chrimi's BP claim, if true, narrows down the options for scum - if they have a goon and a roleblocker, Chrimi's uncced claim puts them in A, and if they're goon/goon her claim puts them in 3.

So - if scum are any of the people who commented that I had more info (or if they knew it but are now denying it because it looks town), they already knew my role, based on Chrimi's claim and their own team combo.

The reason I claimed, then, is because if Chrimi's claim is true then based on my role we're in A, and scum already know it. And I think they probably knew that I'm the PR - - if TNE is scum, they'd be almost certain of it, since I made that early case on her D2 when no one else saw it.

Saying you have information we don't is implying scum, not PR.

I still honestly don't think anyone actually thought for sure you were a PR besides someone noticing a soft-crumbing for Tracker apparently. I think you misread the situation horribly; I didn't even think you were very towny.

[Chrimi]

I think you missed what I was pointing out. It's nothing to do with vote moving on anyone's part. It's that AF makes a big deal about how Chrimi would have been a good N1 target because Chrimi was conf town - but Chrimi didn't claim BP until D2. So that point is false and I think it comes from Scum AF trying to help Scum Chrimi.

Yes, because scum Chrimi pushes for a lynch on their scumbuddy day one..

[Chrimi]

VOTE: tne I like tne and astral as today's lynches. I really don't think implosion is scum after that wagon on him.

[Chrimi]

If we lynch town today then you shouldn't necessarily follow what you announce, instead you should try to guess who will be the scum who makes the kill and jailkeep them. Although again I guess this is irrelevant if there's a roleblocker.

Correct. And if I survive until tomorrow, there's probably no roleblocker and this has implications for Chrimi's authenticity.

What's that Shannon? As long as scum kills someone other than you, scum can get an easy mislynch on me tomorrow?

You know the roleblocker doesn't even need to use their ability to kill you, right? Unless you happen to know who is scum and which one will make the night kill (which you don't because for some ungodly reason you think conftown is scum)

They don't even need roleblocker to kill you. They might even go ahead and kill someone random just so you'll go "See Chrimi is scum!!" tomorrow and go for an all out mislynch on town.

PEDIT: What? Penguin making sense? Looks like I need to look over my reads again..

[Chrimi]

Yes, Chrimi attempted to kill TNE, and I protected TNE with the JK.

And then I claimed with no wagon or pressure on me, which as scum would give me a 1/4 chance of survival...?

In which case I would know there wasn't a BP, so I would know we have a jailkeeper.. So claiming would mean I'd be jailkept every night, preventing me from performing night kills. Which means if you caught my buddy today, then I would essentially lose my ability to make night kills and probably get lynched eventually.

shannon, I really feel like you're not thinking this through. Just like you didn't think claiming through.

[Chrimi]

Wow I actually have a town list

Chrimi
Shannon
Cass

Don't throw me in with those two! </3

[Chrimi]

I think you missed what I was pointing out. It's nothing to do with vote moving on anyone's part. It's that AF makes a big deal about how Chrimi would have been a good N1 target because Chrimi was conf town - but Chrimi didn't claim BP until D2. So that point is false and I think it comes from Scum AF trying to help Scum Chrimi.

Shannon, there is no logical scenario where Chrimi is scum and Tne is town (because of your jailkeeping) - or do you see one I'm missing?

Chrimi/AF nightkill TNE who is protected by the shannon. At that point, scum knows there are three potential setups. 1, C, or 3 since there was an obvious BP or protective role. Chrimi fakeclaims BP knowing that if setup 1, no one can CC and it appears legit to the JK. If setup C, takes the chance that neither PR wants to out themselves to CC on D2, and if they do, Great!. If setup 3, takes the chance that Chrimi could appear more genuine as the real BP should they CC, especially with 2nd scum support, or that the real BP doesn't want to CC. Any way, 33% chance of no CC, 67% chance of outing a PR.

Now Chrimi knows that we are in Setup 1 and there is no one to CC.

That's all speculative, and just to point out that there is a scenario. I don't believe that to be the case.

You stopped making sense fast, god damn.

Scum me claims with a 3/4 chance of suicide? If it's B, a counter claim is one PR for one scum..

with a protective role on the table to save the PR.

[Chrimi]

If we lynch town today then you shouldn't necessarily follow what you announce, instead you should try to guess who will be the scum who makes the kill and jailkeep them. Although again I guess this is irrelevant if there's a roleblocker.

Correct. And if I survive until tomorrow, there's probably no roleblocker and this has implications for Chrimi's authenticity.

What's that Shannon? As long as scum kills someone other than you, scum can get an easy mislynch on me tomorrow?

You know the roleblocker doesn't even need to use their ability to kill you, right? Unless you happen to know who is scum and which one will make the night kill (which you don't because for some ungodly reason you think conftown is scum)

They don't even need roleblocker to kill you. They might even go ahead and kill someone random just so you'll go "See Chrimi is scum!!" tomorrow and go for an all out mislynch on town.

PEDIT: What? Penguin making sense? Looks like I need to look over my reads again..

Chrimi if there's no roleblocker it's possible for me to guess who the scum is that's coming to kill me, and jailkeep them. Hence, me being alive tomorrow. If there *is* a roleblocker I'd expect them to both roleblock me and kill me just to be sure. Can you see a scenario where it makes sense for scum to leave me a live, with info about who I jailkept, for another day, vs. killing me? No?

No, because you won't jailkeep scum, because you think I'm scum. You're completely wrong so they don't need to worry about getting jailkept. Because you claimed ffs

[Chrimi]

Tne is now back to L-2

I think it's unlikely tne and chrimi are working together, and ts possible both are town. So let's try to find the other scum

Can I please ask everyon to poe and post their process and results? I am not sharing mine for obvious reasons

TNE is totally scum, throw that vote back on bby

[Chrimi]

Implosion isn't scum.

I understand if you think tne is town and want to start a different wagon, but please choose someone actually scummy- Like AstralFlare, Cass, Drone, Penguin.. I know that's most of the playerlist but implosion just isn't scum. None of his posts make sense coming from scum, his thought process is town.. There isn't even a real case on him except people just saying "yeah I guess implosion is scum: vote"

[Chrimi]

"Claiming wasn't a bad idea, you forced me to!"

So, can't say this was a surprise. Thoughts on tne's flip?

[Chrimi]

VOTE: implosion

It's at the point where I'm clear. The only person who questioned this in my last newbie game was scum. B)

[Chrimi]

Questioning someone who was in my exact position would've been the only way for scum to win my last newbie. So let's not, mm?

[Chrimi]

Implosion isn't scum.

I understand if you think tne is town and want to start a different wagon, but please choose someone actually scummy- Like AstralFlare, Cass, Drone, Penguin.. I know that's most of the playerlist but implosion just isn't scum. None of his posts make sense coming from scum, his thought process is town.. There isn't even a real case on him except people just saying "yeah I guess implosion is scum: vote"

A contradiction incoming;

VOTE: implosion
It's at the point where I'm clear. The only person who questioned this in my last newbie game was scum. B)

You're not clear, widely town read by most, that is.
Nothing confirms a bp exists, if we would have gotten a rb flip, then we'd have had you cleared.
And why are you voting Implosion? Is it an OMGUS?

I'm voting implosion because in my last newbie game, the only person questioning whether or not the BP was clear or not was scum.

[Chrimi]

L-2 on Implosion if I'm not mistaken.

@Chrimi
That's hardly a case, a coincidence perhaps?
Besides, I too think it's possible that you are not a bp, and that you might as well be scum who had tremendous great timing.
It's a possibility, and I can't ignore it. However I do not rush to accuse you of being scum.
Currently I feel you're towny but I will pay more attention to your posts..

@Astralflare
I'd definitely pick Chrimi over tne for a nk as a scum, but this question you just asked makes you scummy af.
Also tne's been on your trail on end day 2.

VOTE: AstralFlare

I hardly remember any contribution you've made to town, in fact I've been following your patten of posting and it really feels like you've been sliding under the radar with only showing up here and there and blend in the ongoing topic at the time.
Offering mostly rephrased context of the same content already been shared and discussed.
Then you come questioning whom would we nk'ed in between tne and Chrimi.
I mean, could be improbability scum were aiming for,
And you still mentioning it and siding with Chrimi doesn't sound too well.
Give us content, reads, thoughts. Anything to work with

And give myself a 3/4 chance of suicide with no pressure on me? K then

On another note

VOTE: AstralFlare

[Chrimi]

Cass still null...I would have gone leantown, but remaining off the TNE wagon, and the quick start of an implosion wagon at the beginning of the day are a bit offputting. Still, unvoted.

Ouch. This one just... Like... Completely deleted every town read I had on you.
You don't know why we lynched tne, you don't give any meaningful points and your general blabbery about things we've gone over makes me wanna switch my vote. Really bad.

[/quote]
Oh hey, that read on Cass looks totally like a scumbuddy read.

Drone & Cass scumteam, anyways?

Still dislike AstroFlare but...

[Chrimi]

VOTE: Cass

Join me, implosion?

[Chrimi]

@Implosion and Chrimi
My vote on AstralFlare feels comfy until further notice from him, I feel like I'm on to something.
I kinda believe it's af/Cass mafia and since Cass already is on L-2 and we haven't heard anything of neither af or Cass, I guess it's optimal to stay on af at least for now.
Since pp didn't vote Cass yet, I guess it's okay to keep Cass at L-2, I would also like a longer day. Want some answers..
By the way af and Cass share this "filler" posting similarity.
Or I'm the only one seeing this in af?

No, you're not the only one. I'm following your reads every step of the way, and I'm really starting to like you for town.

implosion, Drone and Chrimi townpool any one?

Cass or AF lynch today please.

Though if it's PP and someone else instead I'll c r y

[Chrimi]

Right now if I were to make a guess I'd say cass/drone. Second would be a tossup between cass/af and cass/pp. But I really do think cass's play is scummy.

So... basically you'd link me to anyone (except Chrimi, because doubting her got you under fire before...), as long as it gets me lynched, right? Because it takes only one mislynch right now, so who cares, right?

He thinks we're not scum partners because I'm pushing you like this, not because questioning me got him under fire. This is horrible misrep coming straight from scum. Can we lynch Cass now please?

[Chrimi]

For those considering me as scum, ask yourself the following questions please:
- Why would I have resisted the Tne lynch as long as I did, if I knew she was town? I had a solid reasoning why scum would do what she did, as scum I would have pushed that hard and made it quick.
- Why would I have targeted (as scum) anyone but Shannon on Night 1, considering I believed she had breadcrumbed a PR?

Did you ever state in thread that you think she was breadcrumbing before her (horrible) claim?

[Chrimi]

Wait no

UNVOTE:

Fuck what

I need to think about this. dammit

[Chrimi]

@Chrimi: I hope you can also try this, having a more neutral mindset than me. Imagine the case where me and Imp are townies tearing into each other. In this case the scum would be among PP/AF/ Drone. Is this a serious option in your opinion?

It is a serious option. I'm trying to decide between PP, AF, and you (Cass). Drone and implosion are definitely town in my mind. So I'm trying to make sure I don't lynch the 1/3 of you that is town.

One of my issues is that I'm having trouble reading you and PP and deciding which one is scum.. But I know for sure that AF is scum with one of you.

So..

VOTE: AstralFlare

And we can try and figure out who the scumbuddy is when we're not at mylo?

[Chrimi]

Also a no-lynch is unacceptable today because, duh, scum is going to kill me and that doesn't help us lower the lynchpool at all.

[Chrimi]

This game sucks.

I've caught up on the stuff that was posted since my last post and bah. Drone/AF both feel gut town in ways that I have trouble getting past and PP still has townish things and there are things that do make me seriously reconsider Cass as well (her insistence on the breadcrumb thing, even if it is just essentially taking her word for it and there are other possible reasons like I said).

I think I might just need to directly discuss things with Chrimi. Or well more specifically I want to hear from her (possibly again, idk if she's elaborated a ton on it) what is convincing her that Drone is town.

I feel pretty lost in my reads at this point. I still think Cass is most likely scum because I see material reasons to townread all four but only really material reasons to scumread Cass so far that I really agree with.

I think we need to talk about why you think AF is town.

[Chrimi]

Nah it wasn't particularly strong. I'm down for a Cass lynch.

[Chrimi]

Chrimi- you have to start explaining yourself. We know you're confirm town, but you staying silent on your reasoning isn't helping us. Talk to us. Why is Drone town? Why am I scum?

I'm barely not V/LA and the game I'm modding takes priority, promise I'll do my best to read and such.

I really think implosion is a bad lynch.

[Chrimi]

PP/Drone or PP/Implosion

inb4 it's Cass/AF

I have literally no information this game and it's distressing. All of our lynches were wasted on players who didn't help us out much. Our PR got nk'd for claiming for no damn reason.

I believe a no-lynch might be the best move.
UNVOTE:

Hear me out. If scum hit whoever JK protected last night, then I still have a bulletproof. In that case, we'll be in the same situation tomorrow but we'll have more time and we'll know for sure whether or not scum hit me or TNE N1.

If scum hit me N1, then I die tonight. What this means is, the surviving town can look at my Day One reads and find out why I was targeted for the NK, and we get some information.

Thoughts?

[Chrimi]

If scum hit whoever JK protected last night

They didn't. Why would they hit TNE?

why I was targeted for the NK

I think I've already speculated that.

Overall, I think it's a bad idea. All we're going to end up with is a 3-2. Which again requires all townies to cooperate, and then get 2 consecutive correct lynches in a row.

The only time I would advocate for no lynch is if we still can't agree on someone to lynch- and it looks like most of us can agree on Cass

You were the one who originally said a no-lynch might be pretty good?

[Chrimi]

Chrimi won't forgive me for this :<