I view it as highly likely they were asked for LUV's sake rather than Grendel's given their other interactions. I considered that the last line would be better for the scum PT but 1. It's just giving context to the questions and 2. We don't know how extensively scum is using their daychat.
Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over
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Prism AnyDispersion of InsightAny
- Dispersion of Insight
- Dispersion of Insight
- Posts: 9966
- Joined: August 18, 2015
- Pronoun: Any
@implosion:What do you think of his questions directed at LUV? The reason they're a big red flag for me is that they're a big chance for LUV to give content, presumably to show Grendel and others he's town or scum, but Grendel never follows up despite LUV's comprehensive answers to his rigorous questions.
I view it as highly likely they were asked for LUV's sake rather than Grendel's given their other interactions. I considered that the last line would be better for the scum PT but 1. It's just giving context to the questions and 2. We don't know how extensively scum is using their daychat.-
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Shadow_step Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2956
- Joined: May 12, 2016
- Location: 221B, Baker Street
- Happy Scumday!
and where are you putting yourself?In post 2546, Prism wrote:My list is: Grendel, boring, PenguinPower, Dierfire, Shadow, nn30.ShowThe shadows betray you, because they serve me.
"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach
"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel-
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Shadow_step Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2956
- Joined: May 12, 2016
- Location: 221B, Baker Street
- Happy Scumday!
You are ignoring all my points for nn scum and then you'll ask me why I think nn is scum.In post 2546, Prism wrote:I realize Shadow is giving us all a collective headache but this has become a serious distraction.ShowThe shadows betray you, because they serve me.
"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach
"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
- Polymath
- Polymath
- Posts: 14557
- Joined: September 9, 2010
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: zoraster's wine cellar
My problem with that particular instance is that it seems like luv's responses might have been lost in a sea of posts that Grendel maybe never got around to reading? It is still notable that he didn't look for it later and it does fit in with a trend of sort of throwing out trains of thought and not seeing them through to the end.In post 2550, Prism wrote:@implosion:What do you think of his questions directed at LUV? The reason they're a big red flag for me is that they're a big chance for LUV to give content, presumably to show Grendel and others he's town or scum, but Grendel never follows up despite LUV's comprehensive answers to his rigorous questions.
I view it as highly likely they were asked for LUV's sake rather than Grendel's given their other interactions. I considered that the last line would be better for the scum PT but 1. It's just giving context to the questions and 2. We don't know how extensively scum is using their daychat.
I also don't particularly want unilateral control of the lynch. I'm wrong sometimes :X and I mean i don't think it would take an oracle to figure out who i would be killing with unilateral power but I think the discussion/democratic process is useful.
I am going to renege on putting any thought into shadow at the moment. It really doesn't seem worth it to do anything but write him off as town at least for now.
Still need to put some more thought into grendel (and am very curious as i've said about his next couple posts). And dier. But like. every game of mafia there's always that one person who you're like, oh god, they're in this game and i like haven't read a thing they've said and i feel like i haven't interacted with them and they voted on some wagons i guess but oh lookgets distracted by all of the other players in the game
that's more or less how i feel about dier atm. Nothing he's said or done has strongly stuck with me as alignment indicative. I think I mentioned something really weakly scummy forever ago but yeah. Nothing concrete. Will need some sort of reread.-
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Prism AnyDispersion of InsightAny
- Dispersion of Insight
- Dispersion of Insight
- Posts: 9966
- Joined: August 18, 2015
- Pronoun: Any
You shouldn't be putting yourself anywhere but at the very top if you're town. It is inherently suboptimal to have town claim before scum. Would you like to guess which one of the two I think I am?In post 2551, Shadow_step wrote:
and where are you putting yourself?In post 2546, Prism wrote:My list is: Grendel, boring, PenguinPower, Dierfire, Shadow, nn30.
Now what do you think about Grendel?
P-Edit:
No, I haven't and I won't, because because I actually try to take other people's views into account.In post 2552, Shadow_step wrote:You are ignoring all my points for nn scum and then you'll ask me why I think nn is scum.
Again, please, for the sake of the game, get off your high horse, it's annoying as hell, because the sooner you do so the sooner we might actually start listening to you.
This is a team game.I have ego issues of my own, I get it. It's incredibly hard to stay patient when you think everyone else is bad. Right now I'm being very impatient with you, and snapping at you helps little. You can relish being right on nn30 all you want if you are. It's easy to bask in the thought of being a better player than anyone else, but do you know what's better than that?Winning the goddamn game.Please work with us here.-
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Prism AnyDispersion of InsightAny
- Dispersion of Insight
- Dispersion of Insight
- Posts: 9966
- Joined: August 18, 2015
- Pronoun: Any
Bad part about this is Dierfire is demonstrably very competent and wellspoken, a difficult read, and if he's scum he's likely to go all the way to the end. This difficulty is exactly why he has the status but that doesn't make me feel better about him maintaining this "To Do" status with me for so long.In post 2553, implosion wrote:And dier. But like. every game of mafia there's always that one person who you're like, oh god, they're in this game and i like haven't read a thing they've said and i feel like i haven't interacted with them and they voted on some wagons i guess but oh look gets distracted by all of the other players in the game-
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Prism AnyDispersion of InsightAny
- Dispersion of Insight
- Dispersion of Insight
- Posts: 9966
- Joined: August 18, 2015
- Pronoun: Any
Hate to consecutively post so many times today but:
To make this more explicit, because I know you townread him, this is in the context of my post about him.In post 2554, Prism wrote:Now what do you think about Grendel?
Read it as "What do you think of my case about Grendel?" rather than straightforward what you think about him in general.-
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Shadow_step Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2956
- Joined: May 12, 2016
- Location: 221B, Baker Street
- Happy Scumday!
I townread him previously on day 1, not so much now. I'm fine with his lynch.In post 2556, Prism wrote:Hate to consecutively post so many times today but:
To make this more explicit, because I know you townread him, this is in the context of my post about him.In post 2554, Prism wrote:Now what do you think about Grendel?
Read it as "What do you think of my case about Grendel?" rather than straightforward what you think about him in general.ShowThe shadows betray you, because they serve me.
"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach
"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel-
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Shadow_step Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2956
- Joined: May 12, 2016
- Location: 221B, Baker Street
- Happy Scumday!
I meant about nn calling me conf biased, not the previous stuff.In post 2554, Prism wrote:No, I haven't and I won't, because I already fucking responded to it in #2421 and #2423 because I actually try to take other people's views into account.ShowThe shadows betray you, because they serve me.
"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach
"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel-
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Dierfire Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3083
- Joined: February 17, 2015
@Grendel
I don't know whether the Mod had any knowledge of that game. On further consideration, though, I'm not sure that any was needed. If your theory is that Shadow_step has a Mafia Ascetic role, the Roleblocker function is not necessary to explain the decision to kill Gamma Emerald, right? In fact, I'd think that a Mafia team with an Ascetic Roleblocker (and one capable of killing and blocking by night according to the opening post) could get away with either action, whereas a Mafia team with an Ascetic Goon would be more likely to go after the claimed Cop.In post 2460, Grendel wrote:I meant to ask this earlier, but do you know if our mod had knowledge of 1809?
I feel like most people are viewing this as a left felid theory, and I want something to reel them into the possibility that Shadow is scum. I am interested in any further considerations you have for me.
You said that your vote on me was PoE, have you found anything beyond that since?
Anyway, I've reviewed the Shadow_step again, and while to a certain degree I agree with the ideas that he has been playing in an unhelpful manner, I think that his claim is more likely to come from a Town Ascetic role than a Mafia Ascetic role. At this point, the only thing that would make me want to lynch Shadow_step is if we have a set of claims that supports the existence of a Mafia Ascetic role over a Town Ascetic role.
Although it's true that I base my read on you primarily on POE, I do also stand by the things that I said to nn30 in 2301 (that your treatment of Lil Uzi Vert reads like creating distance), and the more recent points by Prism (2545) also highlighted some ways in which your treatment of Lil Uzi Vert reads like a soft defense.-
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Dierfire Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3083
- Joined: February 17, 2015
@PenguinPower
I'm surprised that boring didn't answer this, but I can find one--me! I've included several quotes below.In post 2454, PenguinPower wrote:
You actually seem to be, on his ISO read. At least, the only one I was able to discern. Please feel free to find another.In post 2452, boring wrote:You'll have to forgive me if I don't take your word for it. Regardless, I can't be the only person he buddied.
Spoiler: Quotes-
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Dierfire Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3083
- Joined: February 17, 2015
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PenguinPower He/Him.pengHe/Him
- .peng
- .peng
- Posts: 24700
- Joined: June 15, 2016
- Pronoun: He/Him
Fair, but you never really had any strong suspicion on you, and you certainly were never at L-2 when the defense came.In post 2560, Dierfire wrote:@PenguinPower
I'm surprised that boring didn't answer this, but I can find one--me! I've included several quotes below.In post 2454, PenguinPower wrote:
You actually seem to be, on his ISO read. At least, the only one I was able to discern. Please feel free to find another.In post 2452, boring wrote:You'll have to forgive me if I don't take your word for it. Regardless, I can't be the only person he buddied.
Spoiler: Quotes-
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podoboq Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: Cincy
eagerSnake - "Fwiw mod steals pagetops while driving. Still think they wouldn't put in 2 people with ascetic?"-
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Shadow_step Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Joined: May 12, 2016
- Location: 221B, Baker Street
- Happy Scumday!
So far the avg order is
Grendel
Boring
PP
nn30
DF
Prism
ImplosionShowThe shadows betray you, because they serve me.
"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach
"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel-
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Shadow_step Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2956
- Joined: May 12, 2016
- Location: 221B, Baker Street
- Happy Scumday!
Here is what we do.
We claim in that order first.
Even if you think you can CC a claim don't jump the order. Wait for your turn.
After claiming is complete. The PRs will claim their n1 action.
After that their n2 action.
Thoughts ?ShowThe shadows betray you, because they serve me.
"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach
"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel-
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PenguinPower He/Him.pengHe/Him
- .peng
- .peng
- Posts: 24700
- Joined: June 15, 2016
- Pronoun: He/Him
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boring Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1538
- Joined: June 15, 2016
Wow, you guys have had a busy day (or so) Here is some quick input:
1) It appears that people are using their claim list as a scum-to-town reads list, in which case, here's mine: Penguin, Shadow (already claimed), Dierfire, nn30/Grendel, Prism, Implosion/Zoronos (already claimed).
2) Penguin is still atop my list, but Grendel's argument on Shadow made a lot of sense to me. I don't feel like he's made any positive contributions to the game overall, which is a telling thing in the long run. I'd still prefer a Penguin lynch today, but I think I'd be willing to vote Shadow, if it comes down to that.
3) I really don't understand the pushes on Grendel or nn30 (nor my own for that matter, but I've been scum-read from go). Neither of them are the tippy top of my town list, but I can't see myself voting either of them today (barring something substantially scummy occurring to implicate them, of course).-
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boring Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Joined: June 15, 2016
Thank you. I've had limited free-time lately, so I hadn't gotten around to looking yet.In post 2560, Dierfire wrote:@PenguinPower
I'm surprised that boring didn't answer this, but I can find one--me! I've included several quotes below.In post 2454, PenguinPower wrote:
You actually seem to be, on his ISO read. At least, the only one I was able to discern. Please feel free to find another.In post 2452, boring wrote:You'll have to forgive me if I don't take your word for it. Regardless, I can't be the only person he buddied.
Spoiler: Quotes-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1457
- Joined: August 15, 2016
So, you don't like the current pushes and you present two alternatives.In post 2567, boring wrote:Wow, you guys have had a busy day (or so) Here is some quick input:
1) It appears that people are using their claim list as a scum-to-town reads list, in which case, here's mine: Penguin, Shadow (already claimed), Dierfire, nn30/Grendel, Prism, Implosion/Zoronos (already claimed).
2) Penguin is still atop my list, but Grendel's argument on Shadow made a lot of sense to me. I don't feel like he's made any positive contributions to the game overall, which is a telling thing in the long run. I'd still prefer a Penguin lynch today, but I think I'd be willing to vote Shadow, if it comes down to that.
3) I really don't understand the pushes on Grendel or nn30 (nor my own for that matter, but I've been scum-read from go). Neither of them are the tippy top of my town list, but I can't see myself voting either of them today (barring something substantially scummy occurring to implicate them, of course).
Can you give a little more on the Penguin / Shadow cases? Or point to where you have already done so?-
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Shadow_step Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2956
- Joined: May 12, 2016
- Location: 221B, Baker Street
- Happy Scumday!
Lol of course.In post 2567, boring wrote:Wow, you guys have had a busy day (or so) Here is some quick input:
1) It appears that people are using their claim list as a scum-to-town reads list, in which case, here's mine: Penguin, Shadow (already claimed), Dierfire, nn30/Grendel, Prism, Implosion/Zoronos (already claimed).
2) Penguin is still atop my list, but Grendel's argument on Shadow made a lot of sense to me. I don't feel like he's made any positive contributions to the game overall, which is a telling thing in the long run. I'd still prefer a Penguin lynch today, but I think I'd be willing to vote Shadow, if it comes down to that.
3) I really don't understand the pushes on Grendel or nn30 (nor my own for that matter, but I've been scum-read from go). Neither of them are the tippy top of my town list, but I can't see myself voting either of them today (barring something substantially scummy occurring to implicate them, of course).
Another one who believes the scum team is luv, penguin, shadow.ShowThe shadows betray you, because they serve me.
"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach
"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel-
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boring Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1538
- Joined: June 15, 2016
@nn30
My case on Penguin as presented today
Spoiler:
My arguments against Penguin on previous days:
Spoiler:
Penguin has seemed scummy pretty much the whole game. I don't think he's ever breached null with me, and I do seriously question why people would think he's town. He's so incredibly opportunistic, and he only seems to pick very safe targets to go after.
With Shadow, it's more complicated. He's said a couple things here and there that have pinged me. For example, rereading the fake-claim situation over N2. These posts weren't far apart, but I find that there's a lot wrong with them.
If his intent to hammer was designed to lock LUV into a claim, why would he immediately believe it?In post 2085, Shadow_step wrote:I want to lock LUV into a claim, I think he is also scum.
If our most easily mislynched players were in a position to be conf. town, that's an enormous stroke of good luck. This comment reads to me like one of frustration, which makes me question whether it's a scum slip.In post 2092, Shadow_step wrote:Brilliant, all the lynch baits got all the good PRs :/
His big picture too, has struck me as possibly anti-town. Meaning, he's not made an ounce of positive contribution, in the long run.
Then there's Grendel's argument, which made a lot of sense. I get the impression that not everyone took the time to read it. So here it is again:
Spoiler:-
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Prism AnyDispersion of InsightAny
- Dispersion of Insight
- Dispersion of Insight
- Posts: 9966
- Joined: August 18, 2015
- Pronoun: Any
Why am I so high on this given that you thought my points about you were nonsense, and my reads are close to the reverse of yours?In post 2567, boring wrote:1) It appears that people are using their claim list as a scum-to-town reads list, in which case, here's mine: Penguin, Shadow (already claimed), Dierfire, nn30/Grendel, Prism, Implosion/Zoronos (already claimed).-
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Prism AnyDispersion of InsightAny
- Dispersion of Insight
- Dispersion of Insight
- Posts: 9966
- Joined: August 18, 2015
- Pronoun: Any
I don't think it's what you're making it out to be. Statements that assume the other person is town are common, it's just kind of understood that the conditional qualifier "If you are town" is there. Recognizing he can be wrong and you be town, and speaking to you accordingly, isn't a scumslip.In post 2558, Shadow_step wrote:I meant about nn calling me conf biased, not the previous stuff.-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1457
- Joined: August 15, 2016
@Zoronos - You told me to focus earlier when I was attempting to suss out the entire scum team.
I'vie had a night to recover from Shadow being under my skin and I'd like to talk to you a little bit more about that.
Pre-flip associations are a huge no-no in Mafia Scum. In both this game and the other game I've completed on this site, the general consensus on them is that they're a waste of time and an easy way to fake content as scum.
The corollary to this, however, is that post-flip associations DO mean something. We have Maria, Eager, Gamma, and LUV right now as post-flips.
The reason I have a headache right now trying to figure out where to plant my vote is that by choosing a single person among those I find scummy (Penguin / Boring / Grendel / Shadow / Diefire*) means their actions towards the rest of the town, their interactions with LUV, and their interactions with one another in response to pressure should be taken into account. Whoever we decide to lynch today needs to make sense within these interactions. To ignore them would be to ignore important clues.
*Diefire is here because I don't have a reason to town read him.
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