Newbie 1757 - Game Over

[keyenpeydee]

Hi people. I'll read the thread later!

[keyenpeydee]

Okay so I'm here and catching up. Alright I'm on page 1. Give me time to read the game by heart.

[keyenpeydee]

Can I also ask everybody to give me a summary on what happened? Everything is too TL;DR and I'm pretty much spent my whole 30-40 minutes reading pages 1 and 2 so reading posts isn't my hobby. This isn't lack of wanting to read everything, I'll read but I still want summary on what happened. Also, Accountant looks town. I still don't get the case on nn30.

[keyenpeydee]

Wait what I'm still on copper? oops lemme fix that real quick

UNVOTE: Copper

and yes I count that as stalking

PEdit: There was a cover up. You clearly stated "scum" in 10 followed by "newbie town" in post 12. There's nothing to clarify

This definitely reads as scummy. Especially the part where you didn't put your vote on me...

VOTE: xnadrojx

Of all the scummy things I did this is the one that asks you to lynch me? Me moving off my RVS vote after forgetting about you is scummy? What in that post suggests I had intention to vote you?

So you actually know you're acting scummy? But in this post, I kinda agreed with.

[keyenpeydee]

nn30, why has your tone changed to extreme defensiveness/hostility when you were relatively calm before?

Compare the tone in these two posts:

You have indeed found an inconsistency.

I play, and write, quickly when I play mafia scum. As a result, my posts lean towards 'stream of consciousness' rather than 'carefully considered and reread to deduce possible implications.'

When I unvoted you in post 10 I was doing so because I didn't want scum to have the opportunity to hammer you. Just because this is what was on my mind at the time of that post doesn't mean that I can't point back to it and say 'well other scenarios exist which would also be disadvantageous to town.' Raising the possibility of a townie being the hammer is one such consideration.

The real question is whether or not inconsistencies are scummy. In and of themselves, I don't believe them to be.

If you're looking for inconsistencies, look for inconsistencies in reads. Say on one page I have someone listed as a town-lean and on another page six days later that same person is a scum-lean. If I've offered no reason as to why that read has changed, and that person hasn't done anything worth changing a read over lately, that's scummy. It implies I don't have a consistent read list and that I'm pretending to have one instead.

Finding inconsistency of stated logic from post to post is NAI. It implies that I'm human - a mistake both town and scum can and do make.

@ Accountant - Do you agree with these competing versions of inconsistency, and why?

versus

I understand that you've already moved your vote, but you already voted me for being inconsistent. You're scum reading me for my inconsistency, but you're being inconsistent yourself! Do you see how stupid this is?

There was no cover up. Only my attempts at clarification. Stop trying to throw shade at me.

In the space of half an hour. What is the reasoning for this discrepancy?

I definitely agree with all of this.

[keyenpeydee]

Of all the scummy things I did this is the one that asks you to lynch me? Me moving off my RVS vote after forgetting about you is scummy? What in that post suggests I had intention to vote you?

Of all the scummy things you did? So you're acknowledging that you've done scummy things - which ones?

Post 52 doesn't need to imply an intention to vote me. Your posts 26, 31, and 35 imply a scum read on me. Not voting your scum reads is scummy.

Moving your vote off of someone, when asked, is scummy. It implies that you want to be 'cooperative' with the town members.

No. Not voting your scum reads isn't scummy. I'm not defending Nadroj here but It's a player's play and you shouldn't say that's scummy. You've even pointed out back then that you won't change your playstyle, what if Nadroj is like that too?

He even clarified it on post 55.

This post doesn't say that I'm actually town-reading nadroj. I'm still reading the game before I jump into further conclusions.

[keyenpeydee]

I wasn't requested to move off someone. I was questioned to why I was still on my RVS vote.

We're out of RVS, he reminded me I had an RVS vote, I realised that I was still on my RVS vote, I moved off my RVS vote.

Simple as that. Stop misrepresenting and twisting words. I do have a scumread on you, I'm applying more pressure to you to see if my scumread is justified, AKA whether your reaction comes to me as scummy or towny. And obviously I have done scummy things, that post is not one of them.

This explains a lot. I'm actually gonna try to explain that I'm not in any way scum reading Nadroj because of that. I even remembered Accountant saying that he is trying to go back to RVS which is a not so good reason to state and I don't agree with that. I'm Town reading Nadroj, unless he did something scummy in which way you need to explain?

[keyenpeydee]

You imply that you see an inconsistency in my reasoning, you vote for me, then your line of questioning is still poking at an inconsistency. Which is it? Scummy, or not? Cause you are acting one way and saying another.

I didn't vote you for being inconsistent. I voted you because it was the first non-RVS wagon in the game, had decently solid reasoning and I wanted to keep the pressure on you as I continued questioning you. Afterwards, when it became clear XnadrojX was a better vote, I switched.

This sums up my thoughts on inconsistent reasoning:

I do think that it is at least somewhat scummy and something to point out and take note of. Even if you are town, being clear on our trains of thought can only help us.

Acutally accountant, I don't particularly agree with you when you voted Nadroj for the reason of him trying to go back to RVS. Do you seriously say that it is easy to go back to RVS when nn30 (as I think) have done scummy? Of course if someone acted scummy. suspicions will be thrown, Suspected person defends and everything continues and you still expected things to be going back to RVS?

[keyenpeydee]

1) I'm frustrated that we're spending time on inconsistencies which I view as NAI, so I take a tone with you.

You're frustrated because you saying you view inconsistencies as NAI. Let me tell you, Everybody has a different opinion and thus maybe inconsistencies is == scummy to them. And for you it's not. And are you trying to say that "Inconsistencies is NAI and you shouldn't suspect me"? Just because you've done something inconsistent, you're gonna say it's NAI because you've been suspected?

And that's what I'm thinking about what you're trying to point out.

[keyenpeydee]

General read: I regret ever saying anything and feel like I'm going to regret voicing myself even further later.

Can you act more helpful?

Also, sorry for spamming up the thread. I'm trying to get a Mafia Scum rank wahahaha

[keyenpeydee]

Also I just realised that although Accountant says they scumread me the most, they are just applying pressure solely to nn30. They are not pursuing me or pressuring me, which is what you typically do to a scumread. Why do you pressure just nn30 if I'm scum to you? You seem way more interested in nn30 than you are in actually getting me lynched. I would like to know your reasons.

PEdit: Since pretty much only Me, Accountant, Fruitsman, you, and Vijarada has spoke, my reads is just you and slightly Accountant for ^

Didn't accountant said that she town reads nn30 after you've posted this and you're stating she's pressuring nn30 although I can't even feel it? Are you scum? Please claim so we could lynch you. I've lost my interest TR-ing you.

[keyenpeydee]

So you scumread me so much that gun to the head I'm scum? I wonder where all this confidence is coming from, I never knew you could be 100% sure someone is scum 3 pages in.

VOTE: Accountant

Do you even realize you're being scummy? I thought you've realized...

VOTE: XnadrojX

More and more reading you makes it really lose my Town read on you.

Oh yeah and...

I'm not 100% sure you're scum. I'm sufficiently convinced you're scum that I don't think it's useful trying to interact with you in any meaningful way other than to call you out whenever you do bad things and push the rest of the town to see how scummy you are.

I also see that you are trying to imply that I'm scummy because of excessive confidence 3 pages in.

This is a bad accusation.

Having confidence is not a scumtell, especially when you have proper reasons and reads to back up your confidence. It's definitely possible to catch scum on page 3, and the only person who has a motive to deny that is scum caught on page 3

The bolded one ^

[keyenpeydee]

Yeah. There's absolutely no reason for a town member to do that. That, along with being eager to attack nn30 but not voting them(and not even having a better vote candidate to justify your lack of voting),

and the fact that you have contributed absolutely nothing original in terms of scumhunting but wish to look productive.

You know, I don't actually particularly agree with you about that RVS vote but I'm convinced that Nadroj is being scummy. Also the bolded one ^

[keyenpeydee]

There is no reason for a Town member to do that. That doesn't neccasarily warrent such confidence that I'm scum

A bad reason. if you're town, can you state more reasons? I'm not convinced.

There is no reason for a Town member to do that. That doesn't neccasarily warrent such confidence that I'm scum

That makes no sense. If there's no reason for town to do it, then it must be scum doing it. Or are you claiming third party?

Is there even a third party here?

I didn't scumread nn30 hard enough at that point of the game for me to feel the need to vote him

You straight up called him a liar, and you say he doesn't deserve votes?!

Town should be downright eager to vote a liar, not reluctant and looking for excuses as to why they're not voting.

Couldn't agree more ^

Um and @Fruitsman do you plan on making a contribution at some point, or just pretending to be a fruit seller?

I have a pen, I have an apple. Uh.. Apple pen.

I've never been so confident
in a lynch 5 Pages in, lets go boys

How can you forget girls?

[keyenpeydee]

Hi replacements, thanks for playing <3

Hello and welcome replacements! Take your time to catch up, and then share how you feel about the state of the game or individual players!

Welcome!

[keyenpeydee]

@Keyenpeydee - I disagree with a lot of your opinions on the game. Basically, what your stances on things tell me is that you think opinions are more important than objective truth.

Until we're in end game and our alignments (and therefore motivations) are no longer in question we can talk more about this. For now we're going to have to agree to disagree with your 149, 153, and 157.

I'm town reading you because you appeared to post a stream of consciousness regarding xnadrojx which naturally went from 'I town read this slot' to 'wtf?' to 'yeah totes scum.' If you were scum, the only reason for this line of play is that you read the writing on the wall and decided to bus your partner. I'm discounting this line of play for now because I believe your posts to be genuine.

Of course, I wouldn't think you would agree with that posts I've made that you've stated. And thank you for believing in me

[keyenpeydee]

Oh yeah, I forgot to introduce myself, Call me Keyen

[keyenpeydee]

Sup Peydee.

Unacceptable

[keyenpeydee]

My GOD this entire page is yours. I thought I was a spammy player haha.

@ArcAngel9 - just waiting on you to chime in. Then we can hammer sir nads.

Hold on.. I am yet to read the game. I ll do it bit later or tonight.

I can't wait to play with you ArcAngel

[keyenpeydee]

Hi everyone. I'm going to somewhere and I can't answer your questions for now. I'll explain everything later.

[keyenpeydee]

I was aware I was scummy, I just disagreed with the exccesive confidence Accountant had. I'm pretty sure 2 (3?) scumtells doesn't mean that someone is 100% scum, or scum enough to warrant their unwillingness to interact in any manner to me. To me, unwillingness to interact shows a gun to the head 100% confidence on me and I'm pretty sure that getting a vote in page 1 using RVS just when we're exiting RVS just to ego, and not voting a guy who I was pressuring does

not

warrant such confidence on me. Which leads to me believing that Accountant is scum because the scum would want to get anyone lynched and their just shoving a scumread down my throat and refusing to interact with me, AKA no chances to show that I'm actually Town

Okay, Even though if I look scum in this or whatever, But I do feel XX's frustration as town. But I don't, however, believe that Accountant is scum by it. I just feel like she's throwing suspicion in the way I disagree but I don't feel she's scummy in that way. She gave reasons, Which I understand. Also, referring to the unwillingness to interact, How come I don't ever feel that way? Accountant did explain everything to you why she scum reads you, How come is that unwillingness to interact? Could you provide more reasons before I town read you? And oh, yes, You were aware that you were acting scummy, How come you can't act town? So in that way, I could change my mind on you.

[keyenpeydee]

No. Not voting your scum reads isn't scummy. I'm not defending Nadroj here but It's a player's play and you shouldn't say that's scummy.

If someone truly scum reads another player, what possible reason could there be for not voting them?

There's a possibility: It depends on the player. I don't judge what's your perspective by that, but in my perspective, I think that it's NAI and depends on the player. Well, not to mention, I also did that thing. I, first, pressure or ask the player first before voting the player and maybe XX is just doing that.

However, I don't believe this reason I'm typing on comparing my case and XX's case. It's just I feel it's NAI (not referring to XX)

[keyenpeydee]

Acutally accountant, I don't particularly agree with you when you voted Nadroj for the reason of him trying to go back to RVS. Do you seriously say that it is easy to go back to RVS when nn30 (as I think) have done scummy? Of course if someone acted scummy. suspicions will be thrown, Suspected person defends and everything continues and you still expected things to be going back to RVS?

I think that scum have more reason than town to continue making RVS votes after RVS has ended.

Alright thank you for explaining. I understand your point but I'm disagreeing with your reason of this. I also didn't forget your other reasons (which I agree to) so I'm not suspecting you in just this reason.

[keyenpeydee]

I'm actually hating wyvernite right now. All he's been doing is making very assertive statements. He doesn't seem to be engaging with other players and he isn't providing analysis, simply opportunism.

VOTE: Wyvernite with the caveat that I would still vote xnadrojx, and expect to do so soon.

I actually believe that nothing fruitsman has done so far is scummy. His play's been bad, but he seems to want to contribute, and lynching him would be a bad idea IMO.

Wiverynite is one of the topic we should also discuss.

[keyenpeydee]

Regarding on frutisman's case, I feel like he's just too newbie for the heated arguments and is confused.

[keyenpeydee]

Spoiler: Accidental quotes spoilered

I'm scared of fire, I'd rather be hanged.


In response to this part of keyen's post caught my attention:

So you scumread me so much that gun to the head I'm scum? I wonder where all this confidence is coming from, I never knew you could be 100% sure someone is scum 3 pages in.

VOTE: Accountant

Do you even realize you're being scummy? I thought you've realized...

VOTE: XnadrojX

More and more reading you makes it really lose my Town read on you.

I was aware I was scummy, I just disagreed with the exccesive confidence Accountant had. I'm pretty sure 2 (3?) scumtells doesn't mean that someone is 100% scum, or scum enough to warrant their unwillingness to interact in any manner to me. To me, unwillingness to interact shows a gun to the head 100% confidence on me and I'm pretty sure that getting a vote in page 1 using RVS just when we're exiting RVS just to ego, and not voting a guy who I was pressuring does

not

warrant such confidence on me. Which leads to me believing that Accountant is scum because the scum would want to get anyone lynched and their just shoving a scumread down my throat and refusing to interact with me, AKA no chances to show that I'm actually Town

No. Not voting your scum reads isn't scummy. I'm not defending Nadroj here but It's a player's play and you shouldn't say that's scummy.

If someone truly scum reads another player, what possible reason could there be for not voting them?

I'm also gonna try to UNVOTE: So XX wouldn't be hammered. I'll judge again if he ever acts scummy.

[keyenpeydee]

OMG PLEASE DISREGARD THE QUOTES. URGH BUGS.

@MOD: PLease delete the quotes but not my statement. Thanks.

I prefer not to delete unless necessary, but I've put them in a spoiler for you.

[keyenpeydee]

No. Not voting your scum reads isn't scummy. I'm not defending Nadroj here but It's a player's play and you shouldn't say that's scummy.

If someone truly scum reads another player, what possible reason could there be for not voting them?

There's a possibility: It depends on the player. I don't judge what's your perspective by that, but in my perspective, I think that it's NAI and depends on the player. Well, not to mention, I also did that thing. I, first, pressure or ask the player first before voting the player and maybe XX is just doing that.

However, I don't believe this reason I'm typing on comparing my case and XX's case. It's just I feel it's NAI (not referring to XX)

Given that scum has strong reason to scumread a player but not vote them, I think that it's more likely that such behavior stems from a mafia role PM than from some random quirk of playstyle.

Maybe...

[keyenpeydee]

It's very surprising to me that we've gotten off the XX train. What has he done to remove suspicion? Nothing. The conversation just moved past him.

Don't let him get away with that.

We haven't gotten off the XX train? He's still on L-2 when I unvoted. And I'm not letting him get away, I'm keeping an eye on him. I unvoted because there's a chance that someone might hammer him.

[keyenpeydee]

Your vote is on XX, Fruitsman. You should want the conversation to go there too...

VOTE: Fruitsman

I don't get you here. Is this serious?

[keyenpeydee]

I think it's entirely plausible that XX just wanted to ask more questions before voting, and I don't think that's AI.

Well said. That's why I don't have a strong scum read on XX.

[keyenpeydee]

Uhh okay, Lemme give my thoughts.

Post 87 says it all that forces me to lynch and hammer XX. It is because at first, I thought XX just wants more questions before voting NN which is not scummy on my perspective. As what I agreed on 245 on Shannon's post. But then I looked at XX iso and I saw post 87 which definitely I really really agree with. Yes, XX is saying that NN is a liar or whatever words he can say just because he strongly scum reads NN. But then when pressured was given on him by Accountant, He immediately voted her which in Post 84 is overly defensive.

I'm convinced. I like the XX lynch. I'll do the hammer.

[keyenpeydee]

VOTE: XnadrojX

I hope you're scum.

[keyenpeydee]

VOTE: XnadrojX

I hope you're scum.

No no no Key. I am not having good vibe about this. Forget about XnadrojX, why are we rushing day 1 when we have so much time. We yet to hear a lot from other people.

Stop this wagon please. this game is so sad!!!

I'm sorry but XX is about to be lynched. I gave my reasons and you're not giving yours why he's not scum. You aren't even being helpful because your posts are pretty much your reads but you haven't even explain it. And I agree with Accountant that we can afford a mislynch D1. XX lynch isn't bad because we gave reasons and not just throwing your votes. And if that continues, People will just be yes and no until they reach the deadline.

[keyenpeydee]

I mean if people don't decide to lynch XX, People will just be yes and no until they reach the deadline.

[keyenpeydee]

@shannon, What do you mean by "I didn't want it and I think I might have been able to move keyen too."

[keyenpeydee]

I really felt bad lynching XX but he sure do acted scummy.

[keyenpeydee]

Accountant - You better have a valid explanation on why you didn't choose to look other cases and only focused on Xnadrojx?

XnadrojX was the scummiest. It's not like I didn't look at other cases, I just focused on the scummiest one most. Now, why were you so certain XX was town?

^^ This

[keyenpeydee]

Accountant - You better have a valid explanation on why you didn't choose to look other cases and only focused on Xnadrojx?

XnadrojX was the scummiest. It's not like I didn't look at other cases, I just focused on the scummiest one most. Now, why were you so certain XX was town?

Its not about Xnadrojx looked town. I thought he was probably town based on his reactions but now i think you're the scum.

Being IC, it is your duty push players to see and focus on the other options to scum hunt but you only focused the entire game to push XX wagon.

VOTE: Accountant

I don't understand what you're trying to point out. IC are, indeed, the most superior in newbie games but that doesn't stop them to play and suspect freely on other players. IC are just people who help newbies in terms of what will they do etc (as what I think) but not dictate them what to do. Your reasons are invalid.

[keyenpeydee]

@nn30 272 - Are you trying to say fruitsman can't have scum reads with someone rather than XX?

[keyenpeydee]

@Keyen - please rephrase. I've read your sentence 3 times now and still don't know what you mean.

Sorry, I mean that I think you're trying to point out that Fruitsman can't have other scum reads. I'm not defending him though but if he finds XX scummy and you scummy too, then is there a problem?

I've been also trying to think that you're town because first, You're suspecting everybody who suspects you and doesn't vote for you or is this just a scum strategy? But I also don't find you scummy enough to think that way.

If my english is bad, I'm not feeling it.

[keyenpeydee]

You do have a point there. I want to see more before I judge.

[keyenpeydee]

We need to talk.

[keyenpeydee]

Welcome

[keyenpeydee]

I will post later.

[keyenpeydee]

Keyen's "hope you're scum" Tf? There was still 3 days for day to end and he votes saying "hope" WOW.

I was hoping that XX would flip scum. Why did I say that? It's because he acted scummy enough to make me "HOPE" that he'll flip scum.

[keyenpeydee]

Key - Are you town or are you scum wiht Accountant? I am bit surprised that you encouraged Xnandaraj wagon yesterday. He was looking town all through the game, why you ?

I'm town and if I'm scum with Accountant, I wouldn't pretty much say I'm strong town reading Accountant. Oh yes, For you XX was town. We gave reasons that makes him scum. We're wrong, yes. But I only judged on how he plays. Plus, D1 - we can't afford to lynch scum already unless we're lucky enough. We can still afford mislynch.

[keyenpeydee]

Okay well, I'm gonna be honest. As you can see, When I started to read the game, I'm always doubting on Accountant. It's because I really don't agree with her reasons about XX's on trying to make the RVS go back when in fact, Something has said already. But I also can see XX being scum, So I need to cooperate with what I think is town and that is Accountant. Sure, I do hammer, But at least I gave reasons on why I think he's scum. Yet, I still highly doubt why I hammered. When I'm thinking Accountant is scum. My Gut says she's town but it's also saying she's scum.

Arc, I do get your point. I do agree with what you said. Your 331 is a good point. Now, I really feel like Accountant is just being pushy on XX which is so damn not good. Considering I said that I didn't really feel Accountant's reason but again, I thought on D1 that I should cooperate on what I think is town. I also gave reasons though.

I'm not feeling Accountant is town again. Not strong TReading her anymore.

[keyenpeydee]

Sorry if my read change all of a sudden. But I do consider what you all said and I need to voice out my problem. I do hope yall could understand what I'm trying to point out.

[keyenpeydee]

Uh Well, I'll vote for Accountant.

VOTE: Accountant

[keyenpeydee]

@Deer - if you want me on an Accountant lynch you're going to have to convince me off of Fruits. Dude has been off the charts with scum pings for me. There may be some merit to an Accountant scum read - but I see so much more from Fruits. It's so bad that I don't see any reason to vote for anyone but him rn.

What makes Accoutant town for you?

[keyenpeydee]

The way he interrogated me and came to the conclusion I'm town.

Now that you make me say that out loud, I may have been snowed by it.

*shrug*

I'll ISO him and see if I can find a reason unrelated to me to town read him. One moment.

I think we should focus on your slot tomorrow after Accountant's lynch.

[keyenpeydee]

The way he interrogated me and came to the conclusion I'm town.

Now that you make me say that out loud, I may have been snowed by it.

*shrug*

I'll ISO him and see if I can find a reason unrelated to me to town read him. One moment.

You should that only makes fruits a lousy townie. Not scummy at all to me!!

True.

Well, These are my reads btw:

Town:
Arc
Deer
Vijarada

Null:
NN
Fruits

Leaning scum:
Accountant

[keyenpeydee]

I hope this is a scum this time

[keyenpeydee]

I agree with Fruits being newbtown than scum. That's why I don't pretty much have the interest to check fruits unless he's that real scummy.

[keyenpeydee]

I don't know now. I think it's nn30. I think it is. We haven't caught scum.

[keyenpeydee]

My Townreads:
Vijarada and Deers

Possible scum:
NN30

Idk:
Fruitsman

[keyenpeydee]

Wait. Accountant is very much scum reading Deers. She's town pr. Wyvernite is also being scum read by shannon who turns out to be VT. I think it's Deers. I don't know now.

[keyenpeydee]

And ScumDeers pretty much sheeped Arc. I think he's being opportunistic. Of course, Arc is TReading Deers because Deers is sheeping Arc. What do you all think? We need to pressure Deers's slot.

[keyenpeydee]

My name's

KEYEN

lol

[keyenpeydee]

Okay.

VOTE: deer

Why are you scum reading me keyden?

It's just a gut feeling. But I could be wrong. Btw, I think there's a chance that we can caught scum by voting the one voted by the dead people. What do you all think?

[keyenpeydee]

VOTE: Deer

[keyenpeydee]

With many games I've played off site, This is my first time winning as scum. GG guys.

[keyenpeydee]

Well played to whoever scum there is

[keyenpeydee]

So I was right thinking Key and Vij are my next scum list.

WP Scum

That's why we decided to kill you.

[keyenpeydee]

It was great for me Sorry tho. I know it's bad.