[Game Over] Newbie 1784 - Escape Room

[TesXX]

Let the games begin!
The best way to start off the game is to claim BP or not BP. This is because BP claims won't be taken as seriously if you claim it later in the game, like if it's lynch or lose or if you're about to get lynched. It's a stupid idea for scum to claim BP this early since there's no reason to already think they'll be lynched. In the rare case that scum claims bulletproof, then either the cop (if there is one) or the bulletproof (if there is one) should counterclaim. The doctor shouldn't counterclaim, but if the setup is Column C then the doctor will be the only one to counterclaim(we wait for counterclaims first). If there is no bulletproof claims, then the tracker (if there is one) should claim because they know there is a doctor.
I think that's about everything about the strategy.
We also start off with random votes, so VOTE: StealthyNoodle because there's no type of argument saying that name is townish.
Also

Not BP

[TesXX]

BP = Bulletproof

Let the games begin!
The best way to start off the game is to claim BP or not BP. This is because BP claims won't be taken as seriously if you claim it later in the game, like if it's lynch or lose or if you're about to get lynched. It's a stupid idea for scum to claim BP this early since there's no reason to already think they'll be lynched. In the rare case that scum claims bulletproof, then either the cop (if there is one) or the bulletproof (if there is one) should counterclaim. The doctor shouldn't counterclaim, but if the setup is Column C then the doctor will be the only one to counterclaim(we wait for counterclaims first). If there is no bulletproof claims, then the tracker (if there is one) should claim because they know there is a doctor.
I think that's about everything about the strategy.
We also start off with random votes, so VOTE: StealthyNoodle because there's no type of argument saying that name is townish.
Also

Not BP

Also, if you counterclaim DO NOT say which role you are. Just say "I counterclaim" or something among those lines.

[TesXX]

Does that mean you are explicitly not claiming BP or that you are refusing to make a claim one way or another?

Probably the second because he says he isn't claiming

anything

.
@Srceenplay all I'm asking is for you to say you're BP or not BP. If you're the BP, then I understand being scared of getting nightkilled, but you're also probably not going to get lynched since scum claiming BP is stupid. Even if you do get lynched you caught mafia.
If you AREN'T the BP, then claiming would help the town if nobody claims BP and the possibly existing tracker would claim, outing their reports on later days while being protected by the doc.

[TesXX]

UNVOTE: StealthyNoodle
VOTE: Srceenplay there's no Srceenplay without SR(Scum Read).

[TesXX]

I do not like this strat at all, I think it's a bad way to teach newbies to play and I refuse to claim either way.

I've explained twice why it's a good strategy and it was created by Radiant Cowbells, not me.
Also, if people just stop claiming then all the other not BP claims weren't worth much.

[TesXX]

Actually I just realized I'm not technically an SE lol. But yes, the above still applies!

I have read your explanations and I have seen the strategy in play and I think it's a bad way to teach newbies to play. I do not want this to be a topic of discussion when we should be focusing on RVS so please drop it.

How is it a bad way to teach newbies to play? It protects both the tracker and the BP and gives us knowledge of what our threat is and what we have to fight it. It stops scum from claiming OS BP when they're about to be lynched. If you have a really, really good explanation to why this is a bad strategy then go ahead please.

So, over the last few months while I was not playing Mafia I have been working on strategies to up town's winrate in this setup and since I have finally rolled town I am going to put them into action.
The correct play at the beginning of D1 in this setup is for the 1-Shot Bulletproof, if any, to claim. This helps town immensely in numerous setups. Why am I advocating this?

1) It is f***ing insane for scum to try to claim 1-shot BP in this situation. It is an insane risk play which forces a 1v1 in 5/6 setups and gets minor towncred in 1/6.
2) If the setup is Roleblocker/Jailkeeper/1-Shot BP, it's easy for the BP claim to be disbelieved. The claim coming at the start of the game makes it far more trustworthy.
3) If the setup is Tracker/1-Shot BP/Goon, the Tracker knows that there is no doc and can be a lot safer on claiming. Note that mathematically the correct play is to target the outed tracker if the other PR is not known; so little potential gain is made here.
4) If the setup is Tracker/Doc/Goon, a living tracker will know by the lack of a BP claim that there is a doctor. He can then claim safely and be doctor protected the entire game. Which sucks because I'm going to get guaranteed nightkilled but I'll get over it.

Since the 1-Shot Bulletproof doesn't actually net town a mislynch by being hit it is not actually specifically valuable for it to bait the hit.
This does come at the cost of narrowing down the game possibilities for scum: but I believe that the reward is well worth the price.

[TesXX]

Okay so...

POSSIBLE BPS

This means they can't be BP

TesXX

bjc0303

Chronicle

StealthyNoodle
nancy

WhyMafia

Loopdan

Srceenplay
Pine

[TesXX]

How is it a bad way to teach newbies to play? It protects both the tracker and the BP and gives us knowledge of what our threat is and what we have to fight it. It stops scum from claiming OS BP when they're about to be lynched. If you have a really, really good explanation to why this is a bad strategy then go ahead please.

It puts the focus on the setup rather than the play.

The play is heavily influenced by the setup. So focusing on the setup helps with the play.

There is enough setup-spec on MS, we don't need to encourage that. Newbie queue should be about learning to play, not solving the setup to churn out a win as easily and quickly as possible.

Play to win.

There's also a tendency for games to stall out when a newbie lands a BP role PM because the newbie BP just loses interest, and scum have less ability to fakeclaim, which is an important thing for newbie scum to learn how to do.

The amount of times scum actually claim BP is so miniscule that this strategy is really not necessary to ward that off as if it's some threat.

I know but it still happens. Read this game.

Not to mention it just f***s up RVS.

How? You can easily do RVS with only eight people being voted.

[TesXX]

I know but it still happens. Read this game.

Okay you don't have to read it but basically scum claims BP in it.

[TesXX]

Is this your second game Tesxx?

Yep.

[TesXX]

VOTE: Screenplay

What is this, RQS!?!?!?!

What does RQS stand for?

[TesXX]

@Srceenplay what do you think of the BP claim strategy?

[TesXX]

@nancy how does claiming BP or not BP f up RVS?

[TesXX]

@nancy how does claiming BP or not BP f up RVS?

Look at this thread for evidence. RVS has been stilted by the philosophical differences in your insistence that people claim and my refusal to claim. Discussing theory at this point is not at all conducive to scumhunting, which is what we should be doing and which is what RVS is designed to facilitate.

Couldn't we claim stuff, and then post all of the random voting after(if it's even needed at that point)?

[TesXX]

@Pine, what's your opinion on the BP strategy?

[TesXX]

POSSIBLE BPS

(updated)

This means they can't be BP

TesXX

bjc0303

Chronicle

StealthyNoodle
nancy

WhyMafia

Loopdan

Srceenplay

Pine

[/quote]

[TesXX]

I decided to look this up now instead of later. While we had been discussing setup throughout the thread, this linked post is where I bring up the subject of a Day 1 BP claim strategy. The entire thread is actually a good read, and somewhat short at 7 pages, as nancy and I discuss a good deal of general and specific strategies.

Alright, currently reading the thread.

[TesXX]

I do not like this strat at all, I think it's a bad way to teach newbies to play and I refuse to claim either way.

Refusing to claim even though it's a pro-town strat?

Well nancy just thinks it messes up RVS.
Also, it's time for another

POSSIBLE BPS:

strike

means they've claimed not BP

TesXX

bjc0303

Chronicle

StealthyNoodle

nancy

WhyMafia

Loopdan

Srceenplay

Pine

[TesXX]

Well nancy just thinks it messes up RVS.

That isn't all that I've said. If you think this, you haven't been digesting my content.

I know, but I had to do something so I cut my post short.

[TesXX]

I have already stated that I believe teaching takes precedence over win-con.

Play to win.

[TesXX]

If Senpine tells me to claim, I will claim. Otherwise no.

#SheeptheIC!
#SheepSenpai!

[TesXX]

I don't want a BP claim or a Doc/Tracker claim on the board before Day 1 has even begun. It kills the game. It's not fun or interesting.

I get that the Road to Rome is made for teaching newbies and that it's very very important to have fun in these games, but it is still a competition. I find 3 way lylos to be the most interesting ways to end the game but that doesn't mean I'll purposely get myself lynched to make that happen.

It's simply churning mechanics and not what mafia is about, not how newbies should be learning to play.

The mechanics play a big role in the game, and the newbies

should

learn to use them to their advantage.

Tes has gotten away with being read as Town while producing 0 content whatsoever simply by pushing this strat and that is a perfect example of how crap it is.

The reason all my content has been about the strategy is because you haven't claimed yet and I want to start finding who gets rope.

[TesXX]

Lol, I spent all that time on my lagging mobile device making a post that wouldn't post, and then after I post I find that nancy has already claimed, rest in rip me

[TesXX]

possible bps

TesXX

bjc0303

Chronicle

StealthyNoodle

nancy

WhyMafia

Loopdan

Srceenplay

Pine

• strike
  means not BP

[TesXX]

The reason all my content has been about the strategy is because you haven't claimed yet and I want to start finding who gets rope.

Nah, I think you're hiding behind this stuff in lieu of actual scumhunting as an excuse to seem to be doing something without actually doing anything.

Edit.

Alright, so if I'm scum, then what would I do in this situation if I were town?

[TesXX]

Cool, I caught scum on page 6. 146 is what a guilty conscience looks like, btw.

No, I made 146 because 142 didn't make sense.
Thanks for answering my question by the way.

[TesXX]

Cool, I caught scum on page 6. 146 is what a guilty conscience looks like, btw.

No, I made 146 because 142 didn't make sense.
Thanks for answering my question by the way.

I assume you're being ironic? I believe I've answered the question in previous posts, but your post also answers the question. (Think about why for a minute if you're not sure how that is.) But to elaborate on how I caught you, the post betrays your guilty conscience. The question doesn't come from a Town mindset as I understand it and doesn't lead anywhere except back unto itself. The way that you phrased it combined with the way that it comes out of nowhere (I didn't even explicitly call you scum, for instance) tell me that you have an active sense of guilt (which only scum can have) and were trying overly hard to pose the question in the way that a townie might pose it. The end result just comes off stilted and awkward.

Alright.
So if I'm scum, make a post with how a town player would answer it.

[TesXX]

So if I'm scum, make a post with how a town player would answer it.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you're asking of me. What is the connection between you being scum and how a Town slot would answer? Answer what? Could you try rephrasing maybe?

I meant to say

ask

, not

answer

. My bad.

[TesXX]

Voting him won't work like a prod would, and will not magically get him back.

I agree with this.

[TesXX]

And do you deny that lurking is a pro-scum strat?

I definitely do. I'd be very interested to see somebody give me a

good

scum mindset involving lurking.

Scum1:

Cool, we're scum! Okay, let's think of a strategy to get rid of town.

Scum2:

Hmm... Oh, I know! Let's lurk!

Scum1:

But why would you want to lurk? Won't you get replaced?

Scum2:

Then I'll just post useless crap to avoid getting replaced!

Scum1:

But if you have to post eventually then what's the purpose of lurking?

Scum2:

JUST SHUT UP AND LURK

[TesXX]

So if I'm scum, make a post with how a town player would answer it.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you're asking of me. What is the connection between you being scum and how a Town slot would answer? Answer what? Could you try rephrasing maybe?

I meant to say

ask

, not

answer

. My bad.

I still don't follow, unfortunately. Let's go back to 146. What were you trying achieve there?

I was trying to figure out why you thought what you did in 142. By knowing what you think a town mindset does in my slot, it gives me more info on your FoS.

[TesXX]

I was trying to figure out why you thought what you did in 142. By knowing what you think a town mindset does in my slot, it gives me more info on your FoS.

I think I understand you? Wrt 146 specifically, it really depends on personality, but the generic townie response I'd be looking for there would be course-correction, provided you felt my point was fair. If you didn't think my point was fair, a healthy response would be to flesh out why and try and dialogue with me to resolve it. If you did think my point was fair, a healthy response would be to respond by incorporating the criticisms and move forwards (start pushing the gamestate). Instead, you asked me a vague question with no real trajectory. The answer to what you should've been doing all game so far, rather than emptily pushing the BP claim strat, would be scumhunting, as I've said before. But that would require you being Town, since scum can't actually scumhunt (they can only pretend to).

The reason I thought your point in 142 wasn't fair was because it seemed to be an assumption of scummy behavior without backing it up, as if you were just trying to find crap to push against me. I am working on a post including reads in it, although there will likely be a lot of null reads unless I reread stuff that particularly stands out.

[TesXX]

Instead of making all of these in one post, I'll just do them 1 by 1.

nancy

I've already explained why I think her reasoning against the BP or not BP strategy is bad, but I would also like to add that I don't like how she was talking about how newbies should be learning to play, but then she refuses to claim because

It's not fun or interesting

which doesn't sound like something from a player who wants to teach newbies how to play. Also 150 newbies shouldn't be taught to act like their scumreads are confirmed scum on page 7.
@nancy what is it that makes you townread Pine this much?

[TesXX]

@nancy what is it that makes you townread Pine this much?

They seem to have history. I don't think there's much more to it, but I don't know.

I know but even if you have a lot of experience with playing with someone, I still don't get why you'd get such a strong tr on them when they have nine posts.

[TesXX]

Why are you so sure pine is town? He made only a few posts and they were simply to defend you. I'm just interested in hearing your reasoning

Pine and I are friends, and I like to think I can get a pretty good read on him early on. Combination of gut and recognizing patterns.

But he only made nine posts. What patterns did you see in his posts that made you TR him?

[TesXX]

Understand it from her POV. The whole point of a newbie is to learn how to play the game, getting a hang of forming reads, associations, learning lingo, and practicing skills like fake-claiming and ccing etc.

Can't we do this while playing a normal game, trying to obtain our win-cons at the same time? Do you mean we shouldn't be suspicious, because she's simply being helpful?

I also find it suspicious how she proclaims she's an SE, here to assist the IC in teaching! Then corrects herself six minutes later, saying that she just realized she's not "technically" SE, but will take the teacher-role anyways. I'd like to think it's very likely she already knew she wasn't an SE in this game.

What's so suspicious about that?

And again, it's more about the fact that she's proclaiming she'll avoid playing win-con, even when it's borderline

against the rules

.

This I agree with.

[TesXX]

I just realized I'm still voting Srceen UNVOTE:

[TesXX]

Not BP.

Since we're going with that.

Cool
Alright now we move onto claiming

tracker

or

not tracker

.
I'm

not the tracker

.

I also find it suspicious how she proclaims she's an SE, here to assist the IC in teaching! Then corrects herself six minutes later, saying that she just realized she's not "technically" SE, but will take the teacher-role anyways. I'd like to think it's very likely she already knew she wasn't an SE in this game.

What's so suspicious about that?

In the case she

didn't realize

she wasn't SE:
There must've been something made her realize she wasn't, within the time span of 6 minutes(the time between her posts),

while

focusing on a response for you:

Actually I just realized I'm not technically an SE lol. But yes, the above still applies!

I have read your explanations and I have seen the strategy in play and I think it's a bad way to teach newbies to play. I do not want this to be a topic of discussion when we should be focusing on RVS so please drop it.

In the case she already

was aware

she wasn't SE:
She could use this as an excuse for feeling obliged to teach us about the game, rather than focusing on her win-con. She never had to mention this, but the fact that she does "justifies" her reason to not claim anything.

You don't need to think you're an SE slot to want to teach newbies.

Had to check, and it looks like she applied as an SE. I might be firing shots in the dark here, but shouldn't she be placed as SE in another game then, instead of taking up new-player spot here? Is this because there's a lack of new players?

SEs can replace into as many games as the want I think. She took up a new player spot in pregame since that player didn't confirm their role

[TesXX]

VOTE: Pine

I'd also be ok with a Nancy lynch.

And I'm not tracker.

How come you SR Pine with nayne posts?

Tes and noodle are screaming town to me.

How do you hear the screams?

[TesXX]

I wouldn't lynch someone who's barely posted/hasn't posted unless the few posts they've made scream "SCUM" or if I have pretty decent townreads on everybody.

p-edit

For what reason would IC get lynched anyways?

That's not really a good reason to not lynch somebody. I wouldn't defend Pine

just

because he's an IC

[TesXX]

You're aware that lynching means you kill them of, right? This whole thing could just be a misunderstanding.

Yes.
Let's kill him.
Better than a possible mislynch of an active town. Can you agree with that?

So I'm guessing you TR or nullread everybody?

[TesXX]

p-edit

For what reason would IC get lynched anyways?

That's not really a good reason to not lynch somebody. I wouldn't defend Pine

just

because he's an IC

Oh, I agree. I was referring to his argument:

IC will get lynched later anyway.

Oh ok.

[TesXX]

possible trackers

strike

=

Not Tracker

TesXX

CogMachine
Chronicle

StealthyNoodle

nancy

WhyMafia

Loopdan

Srceenplay

Pine

[TesXX]

I'm kind of confused why there is a push for the lynch of pine. While it's bad to lose an active town, chances are they are vanilla townie and we can base future Lynchs off the reactions/comments of others. A pine lynch without him defending himself could cause us to lose an important town role. Not only that, we gain far less info from a pine lynch

Exactly.
Well, let's see who replaces Pine.

[TesXX]

Tes your profile pic gives me nightmares

It's just L eating a banana.

[TesXX]

an

objectively obvscum slot

Then you should've claimed Investigates-in-pregame Cop.

I'm VT

[TesXX]

an

objectively obvscum slot

Then you should've claimed Investigates-in-pregame Cop.

I'm VT

This kind of post is why I'm scumreading you, Tes. You haven't been involving in pushing the gamestate forwards at all, you haven't been scumhunting. You need to get involved in more than a superficial way and try and pick at people's arguments and find motivation behind what people are doing. Even if you're scum, you should be trying to practice those skills and not hide by cutesy posts like the above.

I have been. I've talked about your reasoning multiple times and I've asked you a question about your Pine TR. I'm wondering why you think Noodle is objectively obvscum. I'm also going to make a post about Srceenplay. It's a stretch to say I haven't been pushing the gamestate forwards at all. I haven't developed as many reads as some people because, it's not always this way but I generally don't develop reads early.

[TesXX]

I don't feel that this is relevant.

that what is relevant?

[TesXX]

I would like to take this opportunity to step back and apologize, as your IC, for my absence of the last few days. My job is supposed to be to walk new players through the game and be a consistent and companionable resource, and I have been failing in that capacity. I've had a rough couple of days, and have largely been absent from MafiaScum. I've sorted my shit out and am committed to serving with distinction. What follows is my catch-up from page one, my impressions and reads as a player.

Note: The following is stream-of-consciousness as I read, so expect things to change as I go.

Page 1

-Post 17 (and subsequent posts) leads me to think nancy is Town. This isn't based on standard tactics or anything, it's largely based on my relationship with nancy. I have a sense that she tends to play a bit fast and loose when she's Town, especially in the early game. A first-post scumclaim-in-jest isn't something I see her doing as scum. Subsequent shenanigans over the next few pages suggests she's trying to feel out who's going to be too eager to jump on her, feeling out who's going to take the bait. That strikes me as genuine scumhunting.
-WhyMafia jumping on Chronicle for being vote 2 on Stealthy instead of LoopDan for being the third vote strikes me as odd and disingenuous, and if this weren't a Newbie game I'd be all over that. We'll see how it plays out.
-WhyMafia then jumping onto nancy looks like scum falling into her trap. Definitely putting a pin in that.

Page 2

-Not much to observe here, nancy continues to come off as Town.

Page 3

-Pine enters, nancy interaction is pretty obvTown.

Page 4

-Stealthy's entrance looks like newScum. Praises TesXX and LoopDan for empty reasons, votes nancy as the most dynamic player present. Does not support BP-claiming strategy, agrees with nancy, but does it anyway? Then flips around and says she's not supporting a pro-Town agenda? Naaaahhh. Also as noted in Post 90, exaggerating charges against nancy.
-WhyMafia continues to make moves that come off as opportunistic, specifically moving against LoopDan for a page 1 RVS vote. Hesitating a little on my scumread though, not sure even newScum would do this.

Page 5

-A little concerned about LoopDan's push against non-claimers in the BP strategy. Citing prior results does not guarantee future success. This looks like a fallacy of some kind. Also not a fan of his dig at nancy about her statement about teaching>wincon (though I superficially agree with him, the best way to teach is to stick to wincon). As a player new to SE-status, nancy is allowed to be wrong about meta.

@nancy: Per your statement in 122, please claim either "Not BP" or "BP". While I will be interested in moderating a post-game discussion on the strategy in MD, for now it is the order of the day. Suffice to say that, if you are BP, there is no real downside to claiming it. If you aren't, there still isn't a downside. That was the whole basis of the proposal, that there was no downside for Town, and it limits scum fakeclaiming options.

Page 6

-Conversation veers into theory at this point, so some general observations: Chronicle strikes me as classic newTown, trying to figure stuff out but not really knowing how. TesXX has been focusing almost exclusively on theory and strategy discussion, with a surprising dearth of real content. Suspicions at this point include StealtyNoodle, WhyMafia, TesXX, maybe LoopDan. TRs (Town reads) include nancy and Chronicle. Still need sorting on Srceenplay and bjc/CogMachine.

Page 7

-nancy's push against TesXX at the bottom of 6/top of 7 doesn't make any damn sense. However, what's much more incisive is TesXX's reaction to it. His reaction to strong suspicion screams "I am scum frustrated at being caught for the wrong reasons." This is a classic tell, but is sometimes hard to distinguish from "Town suspected for bad reasons." This one definitely strikes me as the former. Post 167 in particular raises a red flag.
-Ha, I knew I was right on Chronicle. 168 is the Towniest of Townposts. Objective-driven, shows evidence of doing research, saltiness directed at people who aren't helping accomplish wincon. Chronicle's a hard TR now.

Page 8

-Getting cold feet on my WhyMafia SR now. Meandering uncertainty looks more like newTown than newScum. Some of his reads in 194 are hard to push, where I see newScum going for easier targets.
-Much of this page was devoted to discussion of lurker theory, so I'm going to slip into IC Mode...

Lurking is a highly-debated subject. It is also one of the areas where site meta tends to change pretty regularly. There is pretty much always a good deal of antipathy directed towards lurkers, as it is an effective strategy for avoiding notice or attention. However, site meta often shifts towards a "Lynch the Lurkers" attitude, which makes it a double-edged sword. There is also the fact that Town lurk for legitimate reasons all the damn time, whether they are busy in real life, are having a hard time keeping up with a fast-paced game, or just don't have anything to say. My general advice is to not focus too much on lurking. While individual players develop personal meta trends that can make lurking indicative (two scummers I play with regularly come to mind) it is broadly NAI (non-alignment-indicative).

Page 9

-Interactions between StealthyNoodle and WhyMafia don't strike me as scum theatre, especially given lack of daytalk (I double-checked; post 3)

"Scum theatre" is a colloquialism to describe intentional distancing or argument between scumbuddies for the purpose of deceiving Town. This is usually coordinated with daytalk, but skilled scummers can coordinate it during the night to happen in the day.

-Just because someone is posting elsewhere doesn't mean they are intentionally ignoring the game. Playing multiple games at once is a significant time investment, and when one has limited time, one must often prioritize games they're caught up on. I was quite a few pages behind at this point.

Page 10

-Not a ton to say here, though the vultures circling over my absence are really obvious. StealthyNoodle, TesXX, and WhyMafia spend the whole page setting up pushes against me and her. Taking down a Town IC and dynamic SE would virtually guarantee a scum win. Not sure completely which two of the three is scum, but I'm pretty sure it's in that set of {Noodle, TesXX, WhyMafia}. Still, this is stream-of-consciousness, so it's possible that later events will suggest differently.

Page 11

-Noodle attacks on nancy continue to be trying to make something out of nothing. This strikes me strongly as someone trying to take down a threat.
-

I do not endorse Tracker-claiming

: The whole point of BP-claiming is that it limits scum fakeclaiming opportunities without a drawback for Town. Having a Tracker claim is BEGGING for scum to roleblock or kill a major investigative role. Heavy suspicion of TesXX for suggesting this.

Page 12

-LoopDan pagetop endorsement of Tes!Town and Noodle!Town just gobsmacks me. No.
-Noodle 279 "not sure about Tes" at this stage is another "wtf" moment. Tes has plenty of content out, a read should definitely be possible. Nothing at this stage looks like scumbuddies.
-Srceenplay 290 out of left field, strikes me as newTown, insufficient evidence for a strong read.

Page 13

-WhyMafia 303 strikes me as gamesolving. Asking incisive motivations-based questions of the hardest-to-sort active player.
-Tentatively agreeing with nancy 314, LoopDan looks like stubborn Town SE sticking to bad reads.
-CogMachine catchup post shouts newTown. TRing TesXX for very incorrect reasons (obsession with setup rather than reads is scummy, not Towny). I'd object to the srceenplay SR, but the guy has less content than I do and he's actually been posting consistently. Pressure is good.

Page 14

-Noodle continues being scummy. Cog continues to exhibit gamesolving traits. I'm liking his push on Srceenplay, it vibes genuine.
-Noodle's 349 readslist in particular seems...opportunistic is the wrong word? Advantageous, convenient? He's looking to get rid of threats, keep allies, and butter up people not SRing him. Readslist seems calibrated to support this objective.

Page 15

-Noodle yet again, 368, throwing absolutely everything against the wall to see what sticks. Going after nancy for VT-claiming is particularly egregious. Fabricating NAI stuff into a scumread is not a Town tactic.

Page 16

-WhyMafia's saltiness in 376 is Towny. @WhyMafia - Still give reasons, even if it's scum asking. Openness is

always

usually

sometimes

in this case good, and scum aren't the only one who will read your reasoning.
-386 is goodposting

OKAY! Finally down. Very sorry this took so long. I'm going to stay current from here out.

Give me time to read this.

[TesXX]

-I do not endorse Tracker-claiming: The whole point of BP-claiming is that it limits scum fakeclaiming opportunities without a drawback for Town. Having a Tracker claim is BEGGING for scum to roleblock or kill a major investigative role. Heavy suspicion of TesXX for suggesting this.

A tracker and a Mafia Roleblocker CANNOT co exist.

If there is a Tracker and no bulletproof

there is a doctor to protect the Tracker.

[TesXX]

@cog
What do you want to fight about?

Why do you want an easy lynch?

What made Pine compelling? Do you have any actual town reads?

1) I don't.
2) Pine couldn't defend himself.

This looks like a contradiction. Not wanting an easy lynch after voting someone while saying it's easy to lynch them?

VOTE: Pine

Why vote Pine? He just got prodded.

It's easier to lynch someone when they are not around to defend themselves.

VOTE: Pine


Not tracker

[TesXX]

But I'm not voting pine

I know, but you still seemed to have contradicted yourself before you unvoted Pine. Unless I missed something?

[TesXX]

But I'm not voting pine

I know, but you still seemed to have contradicted yourself before you unvoted Pine. Unless I missed something?

Yup. You missed something

What was it that I missed?

[TesXX]

VOTE: Pine

Why vote Pine? He just got prodded.

It's easier to lynch someone when they are not around to defend themselves.

VOTE: Pine


Not tracker

@cog
What do you want to fight about?

Why do you want an easy lynch?

What made Pine compelling? Do you have any actual town reads?

1) I don't.

2) Pine couldn't defend himself.
3) still working on a list.

Srceenplay can you explain this?

[TesXX]

-Pine enters, nancy interaction is pretty obvTown.

How?

[TesXX]

VOTE: Pine

Why vote Pine? He just got prodded.

It's easier to lynch someone when they are not around to defend themselves.

VOTE: Pine


Not tracker

@cog
What do you want to fight about?

Why do you want an easy lynch?

What made Pine compelling? Do you have any actual town reads?

1) I don't.

2) Pine couldn't defend himself.
3) still working on a list.

Srceenplay can you explain this?

Sure!
I said it's easier to lynch someone when they don't defend themselves.
When asked why I want an easy lynch, I said I don't.

My mind is mush
You pushed Pine bc it was easy to lynch but you didn't want an easy lynch? The hell

Exactly

[TesXX]

Tes, who do you think are good lynch targets right now?
And who would you say are your solid town reads?

The town reads I'm still working on right now. My suspicions are nancy and Srceen right now.

[TesXX]

Tes, who do you think are good lynch targets right now?
And who would you say are your solid town reads?

The town reads I'm still working on right now. My suspicions are nancy and Srceen right now.

I believe Nancy is still at L-2.
Vote her with me. Let's find out if she is on my team.

If I'm ready to lynch someone then I will say so. I'm not ready to lynch.

[TesXX]

Curious. What about nancy is scummy?

I explained some in 227, and while she did make a case against Noodle in 385 but I don't think it's enough evidence to say "objectively obvscum".

How do you feel about pine now?

Still null. While I pointed out what was wrong with his reasoning against tracker claiming, I don't think it would be something scum!Pine would push against me while knowing the flaw in his reason, so I'd say it's non alignment indicative.

[TesXX]

Tes, who do you think are good lynch targets right now?
And who would you say are your solid town reads?

The town reads I'm still working on right now. My suspicions are nancy and Srceen right now.

I believe Nancy is still at L-2.
Vote her with me. Let's find out if she is on my team.

If I'm ready to lynch someone then I will say so. I'm not ready to lynch.

I said vote. Not lynch.
Just wanting to see if you want to take a definitive stand against someone.

You said vote and not lynch, but you said "

Vote her with me

" after pointing out she's at L-2 so obviously you wanted to lynch her.

[TesXX]

possible trackers

strike

=

Not Tracker

TesXX

CogMachine

Chronicle

StealthyNoodle

nancy

WhyMafia

Loopdan

Srceenplay

Pine

If I made any mistakes with this let me know.

[TesXX]

what do you think is scum indicative about having wrong reads?

Wrong reads I don't think are always scum indicative, but I don't like it when people accuse people of being "objectively obvscum".

[TesXX]

Let me just assume you're Town here for a moment (your scum game should be mimicking your Town game anyway, so this advice would apply regardless of alignment). It's great that you've identified something you don't like, but you're not yet getting to the heart of the issue. How does X make someone scum? Why can X not occur when that person is Town? I've been saying this a lot this game, because it's very important when scumhunting to go beyond surface level and look for motivation. If you don't do this, you're just begging to be pocketed in every game you play. When you're reasoning through your reads, you have to go deeper than just like or dislike and try to put yourself in the perspective of whomever you're trying to read, then try to discern whether or not their behavior indicates one alignment over the other. Gut reactions like "I don't like this" are good, but they need to be explored and fleshed out. Following your feelings blindly will almost always lead you astray.

Maybe it's just more of something that bothers me than something I should actually be scumreading people for.

[TesXX]

VOTE: Srceenplay
Hammered!

[TesXX]

VOTE: Srceenplay
Hammered!

April Fools' Nubs

[TesXX]

-I do not endorse Tracker-claiming: The whole point of BP-claiming is that it limits scum fakeclaiming opportunities without a drawback for Town. Having a Tracker claim is BEGGING for scum to roleblock or kill a major investigative role. Heavy suspicion of TesXX for suggesting this.

A tracker and a Mafia Roleblocker CANNOT co exist.

If there is a Tracker and no bulletproof

there is a doctor to protect the Tracker.

Also I believe Loopdan mentioned tracker claiming in 113.

[TesXX]

My vote is on Srceen until he gives a good explanation as to why he contradicted himself.

[TesXX]

My vote is on Srceen until he gives a good explanation as to why he contradicted himself.

I don't feel as if I contradicted myself.
I made a statement.
Was asked about it.
Said I don't believe it.


I was fishing for responses.
I did not get any that warrented me to push on.

Makes sense, although for future reference that could backfire. UNVOTE: Srceenplay

In fact just for fun I was looking at your old games Loopdan. Just curious you know. Wanted to see if you were just shy or something. You don't strike me as shy though.

Where's the Loopdan from Newbie 1767 that so fearlessly pushed his targets. Who had strong scum accusations because he was town? Not really seeing you pushing lynches this game. Certainly not the level of scumhunting we saw in that game. But that's ok, you were BP that game! Lets look at a game where you aren't: Newbie 1746. Oh look, more strong opinions. Pushing. Not sitting on the BP claim train and doing little else.

Well, lets take a peek somewhere else. Looks like you're capable of long posts with opinions in them. And able to actually point at posts you find suspicious. In games where you're town that is.

What about the Loopdan from 1773 that was inactive for part of d1? He won in Lylo as town.

[TesXX]

Well then, welcome to the top of my readlist.

How come this puts him at the top of your realist? What's so alignment indicative about posting a list of games you've played?

[TesXX]

WRSGFFFFFFFDKJoisu bgyufjwdsyewfwhiusFIUHSHFiuhjixshfkdfjdshfKFLAJGHjndJKFAGVJDKksAVUHklfvgdsjk dghesjuosfKSFJLk:LSEDFJklaBgkiedgjDJjuvvhdv jkthnjuivfkhjmncvkjm nc kjm vcd xkjm, vkj,mv k,j vc m,vc mk, vc km,kjm vckjmcdkdcvxckm ,kl klk k skml d mmnmnx

Code: Select all

knjmdcsxjkmc dkjdckjn dsfkdsfkjdsfkjdfsejkdsfjkdsfehndsfehjndfsejhdfszehdf

[TesXX]

WRSGFFFFFFFDKJoisu bgyufjwdsyewfwhiusFIUHSHFiuhjixshfkdfjdshfKFLAJGHjndJKFAGVJDKksAVUHklfvgdsjk dghesjuosfKSFJLk:LSEDFJklaBgkiedgjDJjuvvhdv jkthnjuivfkhjmncvkjm nc kjm vcd xkjm, vkj,mv k,j vc m,vc mk, vc km,kjm vckjmcdkdcvxckm ,kl klk k skml d mmnmnx

Code: Select all

knjmdcsxjkmc dkjdckjn dsfkdsfkjdsfkjdfsejkdsfjkdsfehndsfehjndfsejhdfszehdf

Sorry about this, didn't mean to hit submit

[TesXX]

I don't give my reasons to scum!!!!

This looks a bit forced.

^Yep I don't really find it scummy. Your reason seems pretty valid. Still I don't see the "Pine

of all people

"-bit. Is it because he's IC?

Oh that was being dramatic sorry xd

I dunt really get what being dramatic has to do with what you said. The "of all people" implied that there was a different person you would prefer to lynch, which was what I expected your response to be.

[TesXX]

1st statement just gave me massive scum vibes off you lmao. I feel like you're trying to get a bandwagon started.

I was just giving my opinion on that post. I was rereading your ISO, this time without being biased. I had a TR on you because you didn't seem like a partner for Srceen, but now it does look that he was fishing for responses so I don't suspect him nearly as much.
Also happy birthday MDS

[TesXX]

@CogMachine you have not claimed tracker or not tracker. Please do so.

[TesXX]

It isn't?
Gee golly
Go ahead and lynch me if you think I'm not town.

In case you're wondering, the "go ahead and lynch me" gambit probably doesn't work as well as you think it does.

It'll help narrow down to see who's scum.

You can lynch literally anybody with that logic.

[TesXX]

I think that's L-1 on WhyMafia but I may have to check again.

[TesXX]

I'm too lazy and tired to check, @All don't vote him just in case

[TesXX]

Unless Tes posted an encrypted attack on Whymafia

That's against the rules.

[TesXX]

So what was that?

My beautiful creation.

[TesXX]

Lynching me gives info does it not?

It does but you can lynch anybody with that logic.

[TesXX]

I'm actually more interested in seeing what TesXX has to say. Explcit pressure is not very useful. Try to convince me to lynch chronicle instead and I might listen.

Tes, who do you think is mafia?

Come on, don't be shy. I'm very curious.

I will say who I think is scum if you claim

tracker

or

not tracker.

[TesXX]

I'd call your refusal to engage based on my lack claim quite dodgy!

It wasn't a refusal to engage, because I knew you'd claim after I said that. I'm suspecting nancy and WhyMafia as of right now.
So now there's three roles that can counterclaim CogMachine: Cop, Tracker, and Jailkeeper(if you counterclaim don't say which role you are, just say you counterclaim CM). Also, I did suspect that Cog was the tracker because of him not claiming.
I'm not counterclaiming Cog btw

[TesXX]

Of the two you've always been the more suspicious one.

Then how come you voted Pine in the first place?

[TesXX]

@Mod

requesting VC

[TesXX]

Hallo Drixx.

[TesXX]

I apologize about not being active today.
@WhyMafia I struggle with readlists. I make them when I'm ready.
Hee hee I have stuff to talks about on nancy's claim

[TesXX]

^ok

I did think that Stealthy acting as if he didn't care about getting lynched was probably because he could be a problem and he would claim it, but nancy has claimed BP, ruling that out.
Somebody might have noticed/pointed it out(if so I forgot) but WM asking the doc protection question might have been trying to find out who people think pr's are(this is just a theory) which

could

be something a doc would do but since nancy is almost definitely BP, I highly doubt it.

[TesXX]

Well, we just wait for a counterclaim.

[TesXX]

I think Stealthy is a pr.
Explanation to come l8er

[TesXX]

Tes, as for you being the the pusher for this whole strat, why don't you (seemingly)care about nancy killing of the tracker?

I do care, but what happened has happened. I think nancy claimed BP a bit early for it just to be a caught scum thing, so I decided to bring it up if she was counterclaimed.

We'll know if nancy is scum as soon as someone manages to survive the night.

How?

[TesXX]

If someone survives the night, it means we have a doc.

Or that there's a BP or (less likely)scum just nokills

[TesXX]

I myself think that the BP or not BP strategy takes away the "you must defend yourself,

noob

young padawan" part but I think that should be solved by changing up Matrix-6, not refusing to do the strategy. There is a thread about adjusting Matrix-6 that you may like.

[TesXX]

It's not me

OKEE DOKEE!

[TesXX]

I caught up on stuff that happened since I replaced in. nancy's moves so far have been really suboptimal if she's town. It's possible she claimed 1-shot BP as scum to bait a doc claim.

If that's the case, the doc counterclaiming at this point is actually the best idea.

Then we lynch nancy, the doc is nightkilled. Since there is no roleblocker and only one scum would be left, whoever I track tonight will be cleared. So, even if we mislynch D2 and I get killed N2, there will be a tracker clear on D3. I don't want to risk lynching nancy if she's actually a 1-shot BP and the value of keeping a doc hidden at this point isn't much higher than just counterclaiming.

If you are town, please don't fake-claim

(I don't know why this needs to be said but it's been happening so often in recent games I've played or modded in).

Agree

Alright. And would you care to correct him as IC that I am conf!town by virtue of not having been CC'd?

I think we have been clear we don't want a doc cc.

[TesXX]

No chance. Counterclaim now or never.

p-edit

Obviously the doc wouldn't want to counterclaim incase you're scum.

Actually, the doc

would

want to counterclaim nancy because it

confirms her as scum.

[TesXX]

Tes: reads and thoughts in detail please.

I may be almost done. Just need to do some more stuff.

[TesXX]

{Chronicle} I still need to read more through this one's iso, I'll make an updated version of this list when I do.
{Loop} null I guess, I've been having trouble trying to get a read on him. I will include any opinions I've changed in the update. Somebody may have asked this but @Loop how come you wanted a Pine lynch in 662?
{Srceen} nullscum. I dislike the change if thought process from 841 to 900.
{StealthyNoodle} also nullscum. I'm not completely done looking through his slot, I haven't liked some of his cases against nancy and I don't like how he tried to pull the same thing as WhyMafia did in 701
{WhyMafia} scumlean. I'm not a fan of the "I'm fine with getting lynched therefore I am town" thing that he pulled and I disagree with his reasoning of why scum wouldn't do it. Unsure of why he had a switch in attitude toward Chronicle, unless I missed something.
{Drixx} also scumlean. Yeah, I looked back at Pine's wallpost(I may take another look at it eventually) and his wallpost did seem like he was actually

trying

to townread nancy, possibly because she'd be the easiest to not have to put effort into making fake reads for(since he could probably pull the meta crap). There's also what BV said in 951 about a possible Drixx + WM team which I agree with if WM were to flip red.

[TesXX]

Oh and forgot to mention this: I do have a bit more of a scumread on Drixx than on Noodle, and since Pine has a policy against bussing, Noodle is probably more likely town. However if Drixx flips town then I have a nullscum read on Noodle again.

[TesXX]

{Chronicle} I still need to read more through this one's iso, I'll make an updated version of this list when I do.
{Loop} null I guess, I've been having trouble trying to get a read on him. I will include any opinions I've changed in the update. Somebody may have asked this but @Loop how come you wanted a Pine lynch in 662?
{Srceen} nullscum. I dislike the change if thought process from 841 to 900.
{StealthyNoodle} also nullscum. I'm not completely done looking through his slot, I haven't liked some of his cases against nancy and I don't like how he tried to pull the same thing as WhyMafia did in 701
{WhyMafia} scumlean. I'm not a fan of the "I'm fine with getting lynched therefore I am town" thing that he pulled and I disagree with his reasoning of why scum wouldn't do it. Unsure of why he had a switch in attitude toward Chronicle, unless I missed something.
{Drixx} also scumlean. Yeah, I looked back at Pine's wallpost(I may take another look at it eventually) and his wallpost did seem like he was actually

trying

to townread nancy, possibly because she'd be the easiest to not have to put effort into making fake reads for(since he could probably pull the meta crap). There's also what BV said in 951 about a possible Drixx + WM team which I agree with if WM were to flip red.

What about the rest of the players? Who's your preferred lynch?

The rest of the players are conftown so I didnt need to include them. Right now my preferred lynch is probably Drixx since he's my biggest scumread by a little. Also because
-A Srceen lynch doesn't influence other reads much
-A Noodle lynch heavily influences my Drixx read
-A WM read slightly influences my Drixx read
-A Drixx lynch heavily influences my Noodle read and slightly influences my WM read

[TesXX]

Not genuine = scum motivated?

Why would it not be?

[TesXX]

Not genuine = scum motivated?

Why would it not be?

I'd like to hear why you would purposely do fake buddying, fake pushing, stuff like that as town.

[TesXX]

I'm rereading Chronicle's iso.

[TesXX]

I probably won't be here for deadline. I'm trying to focus on Chronicle's iso but it's hard because I'm exhausted

[TesXX]

I'm going to be asleep at deadline. Good luck everyone

[TesXX]

nancy's gonna build a wall and it's gonna be great

Spoiler:

And now that the Day 1 masterclass is over I guess I can slip back into teacher mode. Couple things wrt yesterday that stand mentioning:

First being that I wouldn't try and interact with a wagon to the extent that I was with Drixx's yesterday unless you're conf!town or heavily Townread and really know what you're doing, just because of how sketchy it can look from an uninformed perspective if you're not smart about it. You do want to check yourself and others pushing the wagon, though, and if nothing else that's what you should get from that. Essentially with as much counterpushing off the wagon I did, if Drixx was scum it was practically guaranteed that the second scum would've followed or engaged with my pushes, unless they were entirely possessed by the spirit of the bus. The fact that none did effectively meant that scum either didn't want to push off Drixx (bussing) or were incapable of pushing off Drixx (newbie). And unless Drixx had completely given up (which he had) then his interactions with my counterpushes would've also been highly indicative of his motivations (and therefore alignment) - typically, scum!him would encourage me in a more or less one-dimensional way that displayed more survivalism that genuine conviction, while town!him would engage me in a critically communicative way (encouraged by noticing that I wasn't wrongly scumreading him) and try to point me towards his scumreads. (That isn't a statement about Drixx's meta, Drixx is just a placeholder for "scumslot" in this example.)

Second being that you just don't want to be as uncritical in your engagement with a wagon, ever, as most people were with Drixx's. Void's treatment of the wagon was an excellent example of a balanced approach and replicating that will likely get you Townread if you aren't already in a game. He was just critical enough to not conf!bias on the flip and it was his presence that allowed me to do what I did. So pushing a wagon does absolutely require a stable presence like that, and they're invaluable when you get them because it just gives you so much freedom - you don't have to worry about people losing focus. Loopdan's treatment of the wagon was not something I'd encourage emulating by any stretch of the imagination and is a surefire way to mistakenly push a scum agenda and mislynch Townies. Scum don't want you to re-evaluate basically ever, unless you're scumreading them or doing something really pro-town that is going to hurt them if it continues.

Other than that, what to say.. Noodle, when you see yourself continually convinced that everything that someone is doing is scummy in the way that you were with me in the latter half of the Day yesterday (and today), that's a pretty good sign you're lost in conf!bias. Scum rarely act scummily all the time, if at all, so it's just very rarely the case that you're going to be getting scumvibes from them at every turn. Refining that sense of when you've actually locked on to a scumslot and when you're conf!biasing a scumread on a Town slot is something that's going to be hugely important for you going forwards, but a pretty reliable sign that you're conf!biasing is if you find yourself make theories and picking up "clues" and connecting disparate threads to support your read, or finding a hidden scum agenda that no one else sees in clear pro-town play. There /are/ examples of where you'll pick up on those very same things and nail a scum that no one else saw, so it's extremely important to learn to distinguish when you're done one or the other and not lose confidence for the times when it /is/ scum. I've bailed on pushes before because I felt I was conf!biasing in that way, when I was in fact pushing a scumslot, because I didn't yet have the ability to really feel the difference between the two.

Chronicle, I hope you're not too burned out still. You played really well and should be absolutely proud of that Day 1. You handled pressure really well and responded really positively to being scumread. I'd strongly encourage you to avoid the type of hard buddying and defending you were doing with Noodle early in games because it tends to come off very sketchily. Your push on me was completely fine /except/ for the way in which it was a chainsaw for Noodle. Disrupting someone else's interactions with another slot is generally very bad practice, try and wait until it's over before getting involved if you can and if the interaction allows for it. If you can't wait, try and interact in a way that isn't disruptive, e.g., question the slot on their behavior, but don't do it in a way that intervenes or hinders them from continuing to pursue what they're already doing. This is generally advice for Day 1 play. This all becomes increasingly less relevant as you get deeper into a game and reads and stances become much increasingly solidified. I also don't know how you manage to play so heavily from your fone, that's just heroic.

pedit I mean, I'm lazy so he can come in and say hi later.

I will be able to post later.

[TesXX]

@nancy Why was TesXX cleared again?

You and I aren't confTown but Pine was "scumreading" both of us and his slot flipped scum so we're both probsTown to everyone

[TesXX]

Couldn't Chronicle just nokill n1 and kill tracker n2?

[TesXX]

I hardclaim hufflepuff.

I hardclaim Slytherin

SCUM

I hardclaim ravenclaw

[TesXX]

Couldn't Chronicle just nokill n1 and kill tracker n2?

If he wanted to play against win-con, yes.

How is that anti wincon if everybody calsls you conftown

[TesXX]

Couldn't Chronicle just nokill n1 and kill tracker n2?

If he wanted to play against win-con, yes.

How is that anti wincon if everybody calls you conftown...

edit

[TesXX]

One of the possible orders of events with scum!Chronicle would be:
Drixx is lynched(7 town, 1 maf left)>>Chronicle nokills>>Chronicle is treated as confTown>>Srceen Loopdogg or WM is lynched(6 town, 1 maf left)>>Chronicle kills BV(5 town, 1 maf left)>>one of the remaining townies is lynched(4 town, 1 maf left)>>Chronicle nokills or targets nancy>>Chronicle says that scum targeted nancy or that doctor protected Chronicle>>a townie is lynched>>At this point Noodle and I are being hard townread by nancy(Pine doesn't like bussing) so it's probably game over for Chronicle.
It is possible that Chronicle didn't think this through but he did have 2 IRL days to send in a night kill.
I'm trying to think about possible scenarios with scum!Chronicle killing me or Noodle.

[TesXX]

VOTE: Tes
VOTE: Tes
VOTE: Tes
VOTE: Tes

[TesXX]

I'm an octuple voter and you just got hammered and rekt m8.

VOTE: nancy
VOTE: nancy
VOTE: nancy
VOTE: nancy
VOTE: nancy
VOTE: nancy
VOTE: nancy
VOTE: nancy
VOTE: nancy

[TesXX]

Are we out of RVS yet?

Idk
I'm going to see some posts about Loopdan
UNVOTE: nancy

p-edit

Yeah let's nl with an

uncc'ed tracker

[TesXX]

I was sheeping nancy

m8 nancy wasn't even voting WM at that point

[TesXX]

You sure? Who was she voting then?

YOUUUUUU

[TesXX]

April 11, 2017 - 11:30 AM (GMT)

Twilight 1

All of a sudden, a horrifying screech slashed through the air and twisted the brave adventurers'
faces into painful grimaces. Loopdan was chalking his vote down on the blackboard.

Loopdan:

(Eyeing everyone) What? Drixx be scumz.

BlackVoid:

Yeah, we heard that, thanks.

nancy:

Actually after that, I'm pretty sure he's not the scum.

Her words were promptly accompanied by a change of mood chord, courtesy of the wall speakers.

Drixx:

Let's be honest here chaps, if the poor sod I filled in for was actually a scumborg, why would I even bother
with this charade? You think I'm dying to stay here and listen to you squabble and banshee around with the chalk?
Like come on. This is basically proof by induction that I'm town.

Srceenplay:

(Lisping through toothbrush) Blah-blah-blah. Can the scum die already? I wanna go to bed.

nancy:

No, this Drixx wagon is disgusting and it makes me wanna lynch literally anybody else.

StealthyNoodle

You're a bad actress, nancy. I daresay you're probably even Drixx's scumbu--

nancy:

Oh come on, you cannot be this obtu--

StealthyNoodle:

For all we know, the doctor is still out there, biding his time, waiting for the opportunity to kick
your lying scummy arse down the pit without making himself obvious. Like this is just so apparent to me that I'm
appalled at this town's total inability to loremipsumdolorsitametconcectetur...

nancy's eyes were gleaming with fury as she wrenched the chalk off Loopdan's hands and carved
her name into the board as dramatically as she could in an attempt to drown out StealthyNoodle's
rant.

nancy:

FINE, IF YOU ZOMBIES WANT THAT HAMMER ON TOWN SO BADLY, YOU CAN HAVE IT!

Tribunal:

Did I just hear the h-word?

nancy:

ZOMBIE SHEEP AT THAT!

Drixx had strategically climbed on top of the desk, presumably trying to save himself from the
numerous trap doors that were stationed all over the floor. Unfortunately for him, a tile on the
ceiling directly above him yanked itself open and a robotic arm descended at high speed before
reeling the flailing Drixx up and disappearing into the void.

Tribunal:

Can you believe they try this every single game? Silly, right? And now, for the flip...

The lights around the room all went off as the single black LCD screen to the front broadcasted
Drixx's role in big, bold letters that bathed everything in sanguine glow.

Drixx

: BlackVoid, Loopdan, StealthyNoodle, Srceenplay, nancy

StealthyNoodle (L-4)

: Drixx

TesXX (L-4)

: WhyMafia

Not voting:

TesXX, Chronicle

Spoiler:

Drixx

the mafia goon (Day 1) has been lynched.

Deadline for Night 1 actions:

April 13, 2017 - 11:30 AM (GMT)

You have (expired on 2017-04-13 11:30:00) to submit or change your night actions.

Final Vote Count

Scum is not on the lynch. So it's down to whymafia chronicle Tess

You're assuming that all the players on Drixx wagon are anti-bussers

I was literally about to submit a post saying that

[TesXX]

You don't buss D1 in matrix 6 newbie games.

you EASILY can

[TesXX]

I'm not saying it can't but saying it just doesn't happen.

Town claiming jester day 1 and selfvoting in RVS and telling people to vote him and make mafiascum great again normally didn't happen. But then it happened.

[TesXX]

VOTE: Srceenplay

I'm going to self hammer to kill the day and information gathering.

Lol. Ya.
Not pretending though. We win no matter what. You broke the game and won it for us.

I know but I want the perfect town win

[TesXX]

I'm not saying it can't

Well there you go!

p-edit

I'm not saying it can't but saying it just doesn't happen.

Town claiming jester day 1 and selfvoting in RVS and telling people to vote him and make mafiascum great again normally didn't happen. But then it happened.

That was actually a thing? Wow

Yep!

[TesXX]

Lol. Ya.
Not pretending though. We win no matter what. You broke the game and won it for us.

HOW DID YOU KNOW MY SECRET WEKENESS OF BUDDYING

VOTE: BlackVoid

VOTE: TesXX

Voting a conf!town makes you conf!scum.

GG.

VOTE: nancy

[TesXX]

I softclaim vigilante.

[TesXX]

I didn't choose this life

it chose me.

MiniDeathStar chose it for you.

[TesXX]

At this point I think scum is in {WhyMafia, Srceen}

[TesXX]

Rule of third?

TesXX

Ares

BlackVoid

CogMachine

bjc0303

¹

Chronicle

LaserBeakDuck

StealthyNoodle

nancy

moonman

WhyMafia

Loopdan (SE)

Srceenplay (SE)

Drixx (IC)

Pine

⁴

VOTE: Chronicle

[TesXX]

Ya I think we should stop so there's not an accidental hammer. Also because this will be troublesome for MDS in the next vote count.
UNVOTE: whoever I was voting at this point...

[TesXX]

Why

Why = Fry

[TesXX]

Wait... does OS BP get notified when a bullet hits their vest?

[TesXX]

Literally confTown:

• BlackVoid
  nancy

Very Likely Town:

• Chronicle
  StealthyNoodle

Unsure:

• Loopdan

Scumlean:

• WhyMafia
  Srceenplay

I will say if I reread and find anything else.

[TesXX]

@BV what do you think about scum!Chronicle nokilling?

[TesXX]

@BV what do you think about scum!Chronicle nokilling?

It's possible. If Chronicle couldn't decide whether or not to believe nancy's claim, then he'd be reluctant to shoot either me or nancy. If I get doc'd and track him, that would be an instant loss.

Why would a VT claim BP though? Why would doc not counterclaim?

[TesXX]

Why would a VT claim BP though? Why would doc not counterclaim?

Last possibility is of course that nancy is doc, pretending to be BP. There wouldn't be no conflict, because she has the role that needs to CC.

I did theorize that.

[TesXX]

^Actually, I find this most likely. It would explain why she was okay with "sacrificing" the tracker. It would also explain the "no kill", which was probably a kill aimed towards the tracker. In that case, I'd say Chron is out of the question.

I suppose I might be giving away valuable information here. Is that considered badplay, or is it fine considering we're trying to narrow down the possibilities?

Stealthy you really need to reread this post and find the flaw in your reasoning

[TesXX]

^I'm trying really hard. halp?

I'll explain why it was bullcrap reasoning in the post game.

[TesXX]

Some of Srceen's last few posts just haven't made sense.

I was sheeping nancy

He says he was sheeping nancy when he said:

Let's not over think this. Whymafia is the vote. No reason at all for it not to be.

but as I've explained, nancy wasn't voting WM at the time. And as WM pointed out, there's no reason to

purposely avoid explaining why to lynch him

.

Scum is not on the lynch. So it's down to whymafia chronicle Tess

His reasoning for this is:

I'm not saying it can't but saying it just doesn't happen.

He says scum

isn't

on the wagon and says scum is narrowed down to me, WM, and Chronicle even though he says himself that scum could bus, but it doesn't.

[TesXX]

I'm not sure who it is between {WM, Srceen} but I'm pretty sure it's one of them. I want to see Loop's opinion on all of this.

[TesXX]

So, why can't it be Loopdan, or StealthyNoodle bussing Pine's slot or Chronicle no killing because he thinks nancy is a doc who would protect me and is afraid that I might track him N1?

I am going to reread Loop's ISO tomorrow when I'm less tired. It could be him, but right now Srceen and WM have been acting scummy to me so Loop is sitting in the town by PoE zone. I'm pretty sure Noodle is town because Pine has a thing against bussing I believe. And I think Chronicle is town because of what the order of events would be after him nokilling would be.

[TesXX]

I'd also like to know why you never put your vote down towards the end of day. You seemed to have Drixx as your preferred lynch but never actually voted him.

I was undecided on who to vote between him and WM

[TesXX]

I'm hesitant to take stuff like "X doesn't bus" at face value because it's situational and this could be the game in which they bus to throw off people who don't expect it. Especially since nancy knows Pine doesn't bus, why wouldn't he use that to his advantage this time?

That is true. I'm going to take a closer look at him tomorrow, I'm going to bed.

[TesXX]

But you listed out in 1167 why Drixx was your preferred lynch and he also seemed more viable than WM. How come that didn't influence your choice?

I did prefer a Drixx lynch but a small part of me was telling me to vote WM.

[TesXX]

That's not what you were doing at the end of D1 though. You were re-reading Chronicle's ISO (1284). How was that going to help you make your decision?

Because I was going to see if there were any partner-like interactions between Chronicle and either Drixx or WhyMafia.

[TesXX]

It is possible that scum!Chronicle forgot that Pine doesn't like bussing, or that he wanted to bring up the point of "Well THIS time he could've bussed".

[TesXX]

I don't get this:

If there is no BP claim we will claim tracker next.

Alright now we move onto claiming

tracker

or

not tracker

.

Heavy suspicion of TesXX for suggesting this.

[TesXX]

It's still not autowin.

[TesXX]

Srceenplay why are you voting to no lynch when there's a confirmed tracker?

[TesXX]

Srceenplay why are you voting to no lynch when there's a confirmed tracker?

What does that matter?

True, what does the

confirmed town's life matter

Like seriously everybody, let them kill the tracker

[TesXX]

But scum would kill the tracker, not the BP's vest.

[TesXX]

I will post in the morning tomorrow.

[TesXX]

Because I was going to see if there were any partner-like interactions between Chronicle and either Drixx or WhyMafia.

I have a hard time following this. I'm looking at the alternative scenario: that you are scum with Drixx, and when you saw me and nancy consider lynching Chronicle, you saw an opportunity to save Drixx and "went through" Chronicle's ISO so you could justify a vote there. That world looks more likely than the explanations you are giving.

Just walk me through it one more time. You didn't vote Drixx because you were undecided on which of Drixx/WM you want to lynch. So, instead of reading through their ISOs, you look over Chronicle's ISO to see if there are partner-like interactions, why? Didn't you already agree that Drixx and WM look like partners themselves in 1151? You also preferred a Drixx lynch and you also said that Drixx lynch influences the most number of reads so your vote really should have been on him end-of-day.

I did think that Drixx and WM were the scumteam, but I saw a Chronicle post that pinged me(1247)(and also I hadn't looked at Chronicle as much as I did with some of the other players) and so I wanted to read through Chronicle's ISO to see partner interactions that would make me reconsider anything.

[TesXX]

Sorry for site flaking. Some stuff came up and I'm going to have to be VLA until the 19th. If you'd prefer I replace out I'm fine with that.

Don't replace out. Unless you really need to.

[TesXX]

^For every replacement a bunch of information is lost. The player replacing, likely won't sit down and read through our 1600+ posts. Also, reads and contradictions won't be as effective as if the original player was still in the game. If he's only gonna be out for 3 days (even though it's usually frowned upon), I'm okay with it if that means he's gonna play for the rest of the game.

I agree. I'll check the deadline again and see if Loop will be back by then(I'm 85% sure he will be), but I'd rather have Loopdan have to make the great wall of Pine than have somebody else cover the last sixty-something pages and make the great wall of China.

[TesXX]

I'm unsure what I think of why mafia's reaction to black void's fake tracker result.

This felt kind of genuine.

...
I don't know what kind of gambit you're playing, but I'm confused as hell

But this felt a little fake.

UNVOTE:

Okay, I was gambiting. I actually tracked Chronicle who went nowhere.

Were you trying to make me claim scum. Well, it wouldn't work cause I'm not scum.

And this looks like he

knows

that BV is fishing for reactions.

So what kind of reactions are you gettting BlackVoid?

[TesXX]

Those observations are fine, Tes, but what conclusions do you reach from them?

I'm suspecting WM more from them.

[TesXX]

Rip dip potato chip

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kaoy1QKxGQs

I am town.

OKEE DOKEE

p-edit

@Alisae no that was a trick that BV pulled, he tracked Chronicle who moved nowhere.

[TesXX]

@BlackVoid

- I'm honestly confused why you did that.

To see if WM would give up and admit to being scum.

[TesXX]

I did think that Drixx and WM were the scumteam, but I saw a Chronicle post that pinged me(1247)(and also I hadn't looked at Chronicle as much as I did with some of the other players) and so I wanted to read through Chronicle's ISO to see partner interactions that would make me reconsider anything.

What about 1247 pinged you?

Not genuine = scum motivated?

Town has little to no reason to be fake.

Not genuine = scum motivated?

Why would it not be?

I'd like to hear why you would purposely do fake buddying, fake pushing, stuff like that as town.

[TesXX]

Aslan what do you think of the NK?

Well for starters BlackVoid is town. Period. End of Discussion. Plus with a tracker around, the safer play is to not kill unless you have an idea who the doctor is.

The doctor is nobody, nancy is the BP.

[TesXX]

ASLAN I WAS SO SURE TES WAS SCUM

Yes you were.

/me votes scum

VOTE: Loopdan

[TesXX]

I knew nancy was the doctor
I'm so clever aren't i

[TesXX]

Can scum just claim..?

It's autowin lol.

[TesXX]

Noodle is functionally conf!town due to Pine pushing on him. I'm Town, Aslan and Void are conf!town.

That leaves {Chronicle, Srceenplay, WhyMafia}.

WhyMafia is pretty obviously Town imo and Pine's ISO is full of fake associatives trying to tie himself to the slot.

We No Lynch today, if there's a kill Chronicle is conf!town, leaving only Srceenplay.

That looks a fuck of a lot like autowin to me.

Oh I forgot Tes. So only Srceenplay and Tes are left.

Pine pushed on me too.

[TesXX]

Srceen please just concede.

[TesXX]

VOTE: Srceenplay
I want to get this game done so I can be an SE so concede for our sake and for your own sake.

[TesXX]

Sae and WM are confirmed town right?

[TesXX]

Why would they be conf!town?

I assumed they were confTown

because you were saying it was autowin.

[TesXX]

Why would they be conf!town?

I assumed they were confTown

because you were saying it was autowin.

Oh it is I forgot about tracker results

[TesXX]

If I counted right that isn't hammer

It was.

[TesXX]

No WhyMafia unvoted.

No he didn't.

[TesXX]

I did trai.

[TesXX]

Like, he hasn't revoted since that unvote so...

I know, I traied.

[TesXX]

No, Srceen should self hammer.

[TesXX]

Srceenplay were you scum?

Nope

This possibly could've meant anything at all if you said so

before

it was

made obvious that you weren't hammered.

[TesXX]

I'm not scum

Oh. Well, he's confTown I guess!

[TesXX]

@TesXX

- Why did you feel the need to fake a twilight here?

So that Srceenplay would admit to being scum. That's always why I fake twilights.

[TesXX]

@TesXX

- Why did you feel the need to fake a twilight here?

So that Srceenplay would admit to being scum. That's always why I fake twilights.

And if he didn't?

I'd move on. It's admitting to being scum that I believe more than saying that one's self was town.

[TesXX]

Sae what do you think the chances of Noodle being scum are?

[TesXX]

Sae what do you think the chances of Noodle being scum are?

I don't think that slot is scum? Like, I hate the fake hammer, don't get me wrong, but Pine voteparked that slot. And Pine has a reputation for not bussing. So Noodle is probably town.
Also you can just call me Ali if you want, but I don't really care.

I don't see much wrong with fakehammers. I agree with you that Noodle is very likely town. With that said, if everybody thinks Noodle is town then it's nearly autowin. The only way we can lose at this point is if Noodle is scum.

[TesXX]

I'm not scum

Oh. confTown

[TesXX]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzz

[TesXX]

VOTE: TesXX

obscum

[TesXX]

I'm not going to recklessly lynch because I want a perfect town win.

[TesXX]

TesXX no one honestly cares about perfect wins in newbies.

I do.

[TesXX]

Achieving a perfect town-win, isn't really obtainable in any other game than a newbie one.
It's a great incentive for digging into all the small details.
Assuming autowin is risky and lazy. You can already see that there are several player's who don't believe win is secured.

It's possible in any game, just extremely rare. That incentive is there for me regardless. If you focus on a perfect win then when that fails you lose drive and your focus is lost. That is why the focus should be on the process. If a perfect win occurs, awesome, your hard work paid off, but focusing on the results is a surefire path to burnout.

If you and Chronicle are Town, we are 100% in autowin.

It's technically not possible in

every

game to have a perfect win, but they're possible in many.

[TesXX]

If you and Chronicle are Town, we are 100% in autowin.

If you are scum that's 100% autowin... It doesn't work like that.

Exactly.
If tes, nancy, blackvoid, whymafia, chronicle, srceen, ali, and noodle are town it's autowin.

[TesXX]

I don't trust Chronicle. Several players don't acknowledge me as town. You gotta take other's views into consideration.

I doubt Noodle as scum, chronicle as scum is a bigger possibility.

[TesXX]

It's technically not possible in every game to have a perfect win, but they're possible in many.

Well, maybe. There's always a possibility.

Town very rarely achieve a Perfect Win, though it has happened in certain Newbie Games.

pedit: @nancy


pedit2: @nancy
Huh? When?

No I'm talking about outside of newbie games. Some setups don't have any protecting roles to stop at least one townie from dying.

[TesXX]

I don't trust Chronicle. Several players don't acknowledge me as town. You gotta take other's views into consideration.

Why don't you trust Chronicle?

He reads more town than scum. I just don't see why he's locktown(if that's even the right term).

But you said that you don't trust him.

[TesXX]

zzz

Newbie 1784 but every time someone says "zzz"(bonus points for more z's) it gets faste-

Game Over!

[TesXX]

Chronicle = apathetic scum
WhyMafia = survivalistic scum
Aslan = opportunistic scum
Srceenplay = lazy scum

WHICH ONE IS THE REAL SCUM????

YOUUUUUU

I may look closer at Ali tomorrow but I think WM, Srceen, and Chronicle are my top suspects.

[TesXX]

Src are now locktown for me.

I want to hear your case.

[TesXX]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Great case. I'm convinced.

[TesXX]

It isn't autowin is it?
Pine lynch>>townie lynch>>nancy killed>>someone conf'd as town>>townie lynch>>BV killed>>1 non comfirmed townie, 1 scum, noodle, 1 confirmed townie are left
Even if noodle were confTown(which he technically isn't, he's just very likely town) it's not autowin.

[TesXX]

Tonight I die and Void clears 1 slot as Town, which takes us to Day 3 at 7:1. If Town mislynches, it goes to Day 4 at 5:1, with Void dead. If Town mislynches, it goes to Day 5 at 3:1, with the tracker clear dead. At that point, the two remaining Town players need only 1 Townread (the other Town) to win the game.

That's not autowin. If you townread somebody in LyLo it isn't autowin.

[TesXX]

....


A wild MiniDeathStar appears!



Kraaaaww!!

I choose you!

At me bro, come, you must

[TesXX]

Wear sunglasses, I do not

Mocked, I feel

Lies, you are telling.

[TesXX]

This will probably be my next avatar

[TesXX]

It's not mechanically autowin but yes it is autowin.

That banana isn't an actually banana but yes it is a banana.

[TesXX]

Hopefully Chronicle doesn't pick up his prod

*crosses fingers*

I actually want him to pick up his prod because I want Chronicle to respond to this

Not genuine = scum motivated?

Why would it not be?

I'd like to hear why you would purposely do fake buddying, fake pushing, stuff like that as town.

[TesXX]

Pagetop 100 belongs to me.

Just saying.

I cc

He's not going to pick up his prod because he siteflaked.

He might pick it up. I don't think he was prodded too long ago.