Open 691: Jungle Republic (ENDGAME)

[MMM]

Ay.

Starting my catchup.

[MMM]

I want to know where Hellfire was getting PT from. I feel this is being largely ignored and might be important.

This bothers me too, that came literally out of nowhere.

[MMM]

Never mind it was explained.

[MMM]

Unvote

Vote Almost50

Something's not right. Can't explain what.

Unvote

Vote Almost50

Something's not right. Can't explain what.

Yup

VOTE: Almost50

Two 100% Scums here (opposite factions though). Not

MY

fault if Town fails to build on it after I get lynched.

I'll say it again: One of Tails/NotTheRealPaul is a WW, the other is Mafia. 100% (hint to Town Seer)

Did you ever explain why?

[MMM]

Cool, I was right. Almost is super flailing.

If he is, then I don't see it.

[MMM]

I didnt like your bit with HM. Seemed quite obvious to me what he was confused about. You seemed to be paying attention to it to much.

Ping!

[MMM]

A50 is probably not WW given his lack of worry regarding being lynched, could still be mafia though

[MMM]

Why not me, almost?

I don't have a read on you yet. I mean, you are scummy by nature, I grant you that, but what exactly have you done in this game to merit a confident SR??

Idk, what have the other two you said are scum done?

They jumped on the largest wagon (my wagon) when I tried to move the game forward and asked players to actually play the game.

The Day is only 7 days long, so it serves Scum more to keep the game stagnant and then get a deadline wagon going that will actually shock the Town because it seems many a player didn't even notice we had a shortened Day phase.

Up until (and including) yours, the votes on me were mere RVS votes. Their votes (both of them) they claim are serious votes, so those are the votes to actually analyze.

Looks like a townpost.

[MMM]

92 is a scumclaim btw

VOTE: thebrie

No

93 doesn't make any sense with what was said in 92

Hmmmm ok maybe

[MMM]

I can't see anything that indicates A50 was thinking more of one scum group than the other, so I'd like to hear about that.

Two 100% Scums here (opposite factions though). Not

MY

fault if Town fails to build on it after I get lynched.

I'll say it again: One of Tails/NotTheRealPaul is a WW, the other is Mafia. 100% (hint to Town Seer)

Without getting into the immediate problems here (questioning vs. exclaiming, scumhunting vs freakout), there is a slight lean towards finding werewolves. Town's really not going to care at this point, or really come to this sort of conclusion. Almost is trying to make it look like he's hunting for both factions, but with his request of the seer, it's pretty obvious he's mainly concerned about the one. Wolves are not going to think about doing this, and town is really not going to care one over the other at this point in the game, given as they want both dead and flips to work with.

I can say from my limited experience with A50 that he's a fairly calm player who doesn't panic when found out as scum. But that's one game, so it's likely not worth much.

And him panicking here didn't set off any alarms?

This is actually a fairly good post and lines up with my belief that A50 is not a WW.

[MMM]

Tails v A50 is hilarious to read.

[MMM]

I can't see anything that indicates A50 was thinking more of one scum group than the other, so I'd like to hear about that.

Two 100% Scums here (opposite factions though). Not

MY

fault if Town fails to build on it after I get lynched.

I'll say it again: One of Tails/NotTheRealPaul is a WW, the other is Mafia. 100% (hint to Town Seer)

Without getting into the immediate problems here (questioning vs. exclaiming, scumhunting vs freakout), there is a slight lean towards finding werewolves. Town's really not going to care at this point, or really come to this sort of conclusion. Almost is trying to make it look like he's hunting for both factions, but with his request of the seer, it's pretty obvious he's mainly concerned about the one. Wolves are not going to think about doing this, and town is really not going to care one over the other at this point in the game, given as they want both dead and flips to work with.

Well, considering there is NO COP in this game, who else would you have me ask for their attention??

We only have ONE investigative, and I'm narrowing down their pool for the first investigation. Now if we lynch one of you and they flip WOLF then the other is Mafia and no need for the Seer to check them.

Also, Town DOES in fact care. The Werewolves are the faction with the NK. Unless we can direct them to kill the Mafia (which we can't, both because we don't know who the Mafia are AND because you can't leash a Werewolf) then we aim to stop the NKs and take control of all the killings (which can only be though lynches at that point).

This is fact makes me lean WW on YOU, because you're worried I'm hunting specifically for YOUR faction, which in turn makes YOU hunting for MAFIA rather than WWs.

He does have a point about the lack of a Cop as well as WW being the stronger faction.

Guys; let's lynch Tails. If this doesn't flip a WEREWOLF I get speed lynched on D2. Any takers?

This feels like town as well though it's just a gut feeling.

[MMM]

VOTE: Dunkerdoodles

Also claimed mafia

-T

Ok explain where you're getting your scumclaims from.

[MMM]

VOTE: Dunkerdoodles

Also claimed mafia

-T

VOTE: Dunkerdoodles

Random completely out of context sheep.

A50 guarantees ww lynch.
Dunker knows he can get two back to back lynches if A50 wrong. If A50 correct, zero accountability sheep. No questioning either. I like this vote and will follow.

Self-reminder at this point to look back at who got lynched and how they flipped.

[MMM]

I feel like all of A50, Titus and Tails are at least very likely to be town at this point.

[MMM]

Why Brie over dunker?

Brie was trying awfully hard to distance from Almost when everything she claims to know about him as a player should be causing her to vote him. She outright stated that Almost was not playing like he does as town, yet she refused to vote him. She then continues to be noncommittal while avoiding the wagon. Also look at her fencesit on me. She's actively avoiding controversial wagons.

Good case.

[MMM]

A50 might actually be scum

[MMM]

A50 frustration reads as town

[MMM]

Wisdom seems to be town, he appears to have the same reads I have at the point I'm at (page 7)

[MMM]

Brie probably scum, dunno about the D person whose name I forgot
Kinda feel like I'm town reading too many people given the scum ratio in this game...

[MMM]

Gen X is weird

[MMM]

Reading hydras is gonna be a pain...

[MMM]

Radja buddying me and going for the easy vote

Gamma having awful reads

Don't let anyone buddy you!
You're obvious town, buddy and people will take advantage of that unlike me, buddy!

Between us we have this, buddy!

Not sure if scum being blatantly obvious or town pulling a joke.

[MMM]

@Titus: I don't care much about how I'm being judged at the moment. All I want is to flip Tails and have repeatedly said that I'm willing to pay the price if he flips Town. My problem is when I'm right I often get NK'd and then nobody looks back at anything I said, which is my biggest fear right now. Tails is SCUM, Genration X & NotTheRealPaul are likely Scum.

Town

[MMM]

Vote Count 1.2

Tails:

Almost50, Dunkerdoodles, TheBrie

Dunkerdoogles:

Generation X, Titus, Eurotrash

Almost50:

Hellfire Missile, NotTheRealPaul

NotTheRealPaul:

Raya36

TheBrie:

Tails

Generation X:

Wisdom

Note Voting:

Vedith

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

Day Ends:

(expired on 2017-06-19 10:05:00)

Mod Notes: Tomorrow's day phase I am going to do vote-counts a bit differently to avoid messing anything up like I have once.

Vedith should have voted someone by this point, surely there was enough to go off of.

[MMM]

OK, slight change of plans: Lynch ME today, and when I flip TOWN you can go back and lynch Tails for me on D2. Does THIS sound fair enough?

No. I think you v tails is a waste of time and noise imo. It makes it hard to read you both.

If you get nked, it gives validation that your wolf reads are correct. If you flip mafia, I would be suspect of your trs.

More town

[MMM]

Actually ill just do this

Raya36 - dunno
Almost50 - town
TheBrie - scum
Wisdom - town
Tails - town
Hellfire Missile - town
Titus - town
Dunkerdoodles - town
NotTheRealPaul - scum
Vedith - dunno
Eurotrash - scum
Generation X - scum

so one more scum in my dunno reads and solved

Quick isoing has me favoring vedith for fifth scum

These reads are really good imo bar maybe the hydras, Hellfire and Doodles.

[MMM]

"let's give people passes because they're newbies"

- wisdom 2k17

That's obviously not what he said.

[MMM]

TheBrie IS TOWN

O.O

BOTH WWs are on TheBrie right now. Her reaction and sheep of me hints she might be Seer herself. If she's not, the Seer needs to check in this wagon (Gen C and Wisdom in particular). Vedith is likely Town.

I don't get how TheBrie hinted at being the Seer but regardless it's a quite anti-town thing to point out here.

[MMM]

I can't. You're play doesn't make me feel like it's coming from Town. There is literally NO CASE on TheBrie.

Fun fact I never realised how most votes on her (other than Gen X's) came literally out of nowhere.

[MMM]

Wisdom votes are hilarious.

[MMM]

A50 and Tails having at each other constantly is still hilarious, but not very productive methinks

[MMM]

*;ole; = likely!

That's what you get for responding to MOTHERFUCKING MOTHERFUCKERS! (I hope you got enough).

You're lucky I decided voting based on profanity was a stupid idea.

This pings me and I can't put my finger on why.

[MMM]

Not sure how to feel about Titus v Wisdom

[MMM]

You mislynched me in railgun

Thats your fault, stop antagonizing me

Town still won and i played a major part in it, so

The setup won it. Your votes were crap without that guidance. Seriously, you refused to listen to me, and said my lynch was my fault for SRing you.

This is mafia, not ego wars.

Stop voting town.

Who was Wisdom voting, again?

[MMM]

Vote Count 1.3

Tails:

Almost50, Dunkerdoodles, TheBrie

Dunkerdoodles:

Titus, Eurotrash

Almost50:

Hellfire Missile

NotTheRealPaul:

Raya36

TheBrie:

Tails, Wisdom, Generation X, NotTheRealPaul, Vedith

Note Voting:

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

Day Ends:

(expired on 2017-06-19 10:05:00)

Mod Notes: Raya & Hellfire Missile are both being prodded immediately. With just under 24 hours left. the day timer will freeze until they either return or are replaced.
(Or a lynch is reached).

Day timer was frozen Edosurist.

Wisdom, yeah I will be avoiding you in the future. You can self select for those who let you get away with this crap.

Brie's flipping town

. While we're both here, I will try to get through to you.

She fucked up by not claiming Seer and getting the cc out.

[MMM]

Done catching up, I suppose.
Now I will catch up on my own catchup.

[MMM]

>"Explain where you're getting your scumclaims from"
>Generation X replaced out

[MMM]

VOTE: Dunkerdoodles

Also claimed mafia

-T

VOTE: Dunkerdoodles

Random completely out of context sheep.

A50 guarantees ww lynch.
Dunker knows he can get two back to back lynches if A50 wrong. If A50 correct, zero accountability sheep. No questioning either. I like this vote and will follow.

Self-reminder at this point to look back at who got lynched and how they flipped.

So... it would appear that A50 was defending a WW while pushing a case on someone else as being a WW.
Huh.

[MMM]

ginghamdog, nottherealpaul, maybe vedith

All good lynches

If you're scum then I commend you because you're doing an amazing job at looking like town if you are, and your reads are remarkably similar to my own.
I'll place a vote as soon as I get a list down.

[MMM]

*;ole; = likely!

That's what you get for responding to MOTHERFUCKING MOTHERFUCKERS! (I hope you got enough).

You're lucky I decided voting based on profanity was a stupid idea.

This pings me and I can't put my finger on why.

For being "pinged" by lynched scum.

VOTE: MMM

I didn't read who got lynched when I arrived at that post and therefore your argument is invalid.

[MMM]

{Wisdom, Almost50}
{Tails}
{MathBlade}
{Dunkerdoodles, Bins, Vedith}
{NotTheRealPaul, GinghamDog}

VOTE: GinghamDog

[MMM]

Eurotrash NK is odd given his low post count. But chances are WWs were trying to hit Mafia and not Town anyways.
I think that's about all I can say for now. Feel free to ask me anything.

[MMM]

Oh wait, I did indeed forget something.

@Everyone: Thoughts on hypoing Seer results?

[MMM]

Real Seer gives their actual inspect and everyone else gives a fake innocent inspect on someone else in no specific player order.

[MMM]

I'd personally be for it.
If 5+ players say that it's a good idea then I'd suggest we do it. Given that there's only one WW left the info scum gains (i.e. basically the narrowing down of who the Seer might be) is minimal anyway.

[MMM]

If someone claims an inno on the WW then the WW knows the person claiming said inspect is not the Seer.

[MMM]

Do we really need to argue who to go after? Right now if we lynch WW we get a 3v6 situation with no nightkill and if we lynch Mafia we get, at worst, a 1v2v5, assuming WW kills Town.
If projecting being a WW or a mafia onto someone helps identify them as scum, I'm all for it, but I don't think ignoring either faction is wise. Just lynch who you think is scum, be it Mafia or WW.

[MMM]

Oh, nothing happened while I was gone... lame.
Gingham and Vedith should both speak up and post their thoughts.

[MMM]

@NTRP

VOTE: Almost50 for not being a good mod and renaming his thread and

screwing up vote counts/people on them

I know it's not giving anything away. But PLEASE do not discuss ongoing games. I'd rather stomp this out now before it does become something.

[MMM]

VOTE: Math

Out of Titus and A50, I town read A50.

Easy game, easy money.

How did you come to the conclusion that one of them is scum?

[MMM]

That reminded me there was something I wanted to address but completely forgot to.

Vote MMM

For what reason are you voting me? Did you not have any better scum reads at the time you voted me than a completely inactive slot? Or did you just want to see where it goes? Or is it about something else entirely?

[MMM]

That reminded me there was something I wanted to address but completely forgot to.

Vote MMM

For what reason are you voting me? Did you not have any better scum reads at the time you voted me than a completely inactive slot? Or did you just want to see where it goes? Or is it about something else entirely?

A little of column A, little of column B. Your slot was the only one that hadn't posted anything substantial, and I wanted to see what shook out. I'm still not convinced you're town, though. And I'm too preoccupied by rl matters to decide if there's a better place to move my vote. Maybe later tonight or Monday.

Fair nuff.

@Vedith: What about Titus/Almost read TvS?

@Almost: I'm not sure I see the benefit of trying to push Wisdom as a counter if Titus was Brie's partner. Wisdom was not a good counterwagon, and Titus is smart enough as scum to see that it would never go through. She would have bussed in that situation over pushing Wisdom. The only way Titus-scum pushes Wisdom over Brie is if she thought Brie really was town and was trying to avoid the blowback. I mean, it's still not a smart move, and she could have easily continued to push Dunker for the same results. Titus as town is hardheaded enough to try to go for a Wisdom lynch, because she's not thinking of another agenda and there is a real playstyle clash there.
tldr - I really don't see what Titus has to gain as scum by pushing Wisdom, and I think she's game minded enough as scum to avoid that push.

I agree with this. If her sub out is at all alignment indicative in this case I believe it'll be because she's disappointed in her read of Brie anyway, so at the very least I doubt she's WW, and most likely her slot is town.

Now let me elaborate: The only night action we have are the Seer check and the WW NK. With the 2nd WW lynched we have no night action (technically we do, because the Seer is alive, but we know they can't get any positives anymore, so..). This means the game becomes nightless, but we have control over it all.

I'm going to ask this now since this would effect some mechanics and I need to green-light this with everyone before it was even attempted. (That means ALL living players would have to agree).

In the event of the final WW dying at any point in the rest of the game, would town & mafia be good with a nightless game? This would mean that mafia chat would become Day-Talk and it would be updated in the OP to state this change, the reason for it and that all living at the time agreed to it.

So don't do it right now, but in the event of the final WW dying at any point in this game, at THAT time send me a PM whether you agree to the above or not. Remember it requires everyone to agree to it that is alive at the time. So even one no in PM and it will remain 48 hour nights with mafia only having night talk.

I would far prefer a nightless game in this event as opposed to having to spend 48 hours doing nothing.

[MMM]

Random realisation, but I quoted the wrong VC in 434 somehow.

[MMM]

{Wisdom, Almost50}
{Tails}
{MathBlade}
{Dunkerdoodles, Bins, Vedith}
{NotTheRealPaul, GinghamDog}

VOTE: GinghamDog

I think exactly one of Dunkerdoodles and NTRP is newbtown and the other is scum along with the other 3 scum slots I listed. And I'd need a lot of convincing if anyone wants me to scumread one of the townslots/MathBlade.

[MMM]

correct, dunker is towb and ntrp isnt

Interesting.

FTR im a newbie too. Can I get on of wisdom's special passes?

You could if newbscum didn't exist as well.

[MMM]

so we lynch paul if we want maf, should we still try and find the ww?

Just lynch who you think is scum, be it Mafia or WW.

I.e. if you think NTRP is Mafia, vote him.

[MMM]

What I've seen of Gen X was a misrep, a "scumclaim" Transcend saw from..... something? completely inexplicable?? and only one post of Transcend being Transcend that I've seen. I think the scumread is reasonably well earned. I don't scumread the slot so heavily that you can't sway me to vote elsewhere though.

[MMM]

When new players enter Mafia sites they tend to abandon it if they get a scum role PM and be reminded to play and/or just drop out altogether. They have a perception scum is unfun.

How come?

[MMM]

In regards to why newbies do this I only observe the patterns. I don't know enough psychology to fathom a guess why.

Fair nuff.

[MMM]

I feel like leaving confirmed scum alive is too risky. I believe the WW claim, and I do believe that she's willing to take our directions on who to kill, however the following may still be the case:
- She may end up killing Town despite our belief of hitting Mafia with the nightkill
- Mafia may end up influencing the kill too much and aim it at town
- She could still be Mafia fakeclaiming herself in order to be kept alive by town
My heart is telling me to let you off the hook, but my brain is telling me not to, and I think my brain is generally better. I'm sorry, but my lynch is not coming off, and I believe I won't be alone in this decision. The game may last a little longer because of this since there won't be any night kills, but our deadlines are relatively short anyway so it's nothing to worry about, honestly.

In case it's not obvious, Seer isn't going to and shouldn't claim until we can 100% confirm the last WW being dead. Also, everyone should vote in favor of the game becoming nightless after that event. This is also part of the reason I want to lynch the WW as well, because again, spending 48 hours with nothing to do during the night just isn't fun and I feel like it personally disconnects me from the game too much.

@Mod: If the game becomes nightless, will there still be deadlines for each day, or will plurality lynches apply?

[MMM]

Am I the only one still in favor of lynching the WW?

[MMM]

//shrug

UNVOTE:

[MMM]

I'm fine with terminating both Vedith and NTRP. Don't care which order.
VOTE: NotTheRealPaul

Pseudovote vigging Vedith

[MMM]

92 is a scumclaim btw

VOTE: thebrie

93 doesn't make any sense with what was said in 92

I don't really like using meta but does anyone know whether Transcend would be able to hard bus his partner like this?

[MMM]

Hmmmmmm

Ok she's probably the real WW but I'd still like the Seer to inspect her tonight just to be sure

[MMM]

If we can all agree on the Vedith kill he should claim Seer/Not Seer, if he's not Seer then the real Seer can claim along with the inspect the next day.

[MMM]

Are you all done wanking?? Cuz, you know me.. I' always think out-of-the-box and my brain works/farts in mysterious ways.

So, there are 10 creatures alive right now. Ging is Mafia who decided to offer the WW a helping hand to beat the Town. The WW sure doesn't mind, and they sure won't CC. The Town is fooled and instead of lynching a Mafioso they lynch a Townie, and order the hot on another Townie. The WW complies (the REAL WW that is) knowing the hit has HEAVILY influenced by Scum, and tomorrow we are 4 Townies vs 4 Scum. WE LOSE CONTROL ON THE GAME.

LYNCH THE CLAIMED SCUM, GDI. If she flips WW, the Seer outs and becomes an IC. If she flips Mafia, we know why the gamble has been made.

VOTE: GinghamDog

N.B. Funny that I have been defending BOTH WWs (assuming Ging is indeed the other one). Boy am U glad there isn't a third WW or I would have had no defense.

Holy shit thank you. I thought I was the only one.

Pretty aure scum is in wisdom, mmm, wisdom, dunkers

How did you come to that conclusion?

it sure hurts that town has a vig now, eh?

I mean they can betray us in lylo

Yep. Trans calling out TheBrie and pushing her isn't exactly a sign of being her one and only p. Also, CLAIMING THE LAST WW IS AGAINST WIN-CON, and I doubt Gingham would have done it if she really is the last WW.

Holy shit thank you I thought I was the only one here too.

it sure hurts that town has a vig now, eh?

Town does NOT have a vig, and you tried the same thing in Death Note and it backfired and the SK won the game if I remember correctly. Or maybe he didn't but we still lost that game because you let the SK live long enough, and it should have taught you you can't do that as either alignment, and especially not if you are Town (which I'm now 95% sure you're not).

You know what? Fuck it! Guys. I'm the Seer, and Bins is NOT WW. Now let's lynch the WW so I can become your IC and live to end game.

Any CCs are welcome, btw.

This was unnecessary as fuck especially since you were obvious town and if Gingham isn't the WW and we lose you then I want to die

So, with Wisdom almost confirmed Scum

loling
Why dont you vote me then? Oh, right, because lynching the WW is somehow better

I cant even tell if youre this stupid or just mafia

Not lynching the WW

claim

only gives us marginally better odds - if the claim is real - in that we have a chance of winning a 3v3v1/2v2v1 and if we don't suck balls (which I believe we don't since we caught two scum in a row) then we should never even get to that situation.

UNVOTE:

Intent to hammer GinghamDog if at L-1

(VC would be appreciated here, no I cbf counting myself)

[MMM]

I've never been lynched in the 8+ years I've been playing mafia

I highly doubt that lol

[MMM]

Also, why the fuck are you posting seven times in a row? I'd lynch that.

No.

[MMM]

I'm only joking about the policy

Oh

Still, all strong townreads on Wisdom are scummy, tbf.

I've come to virtually the same conclusions as him independently when I caught up so in my case, if you think I'm scummy for strongly town reading him, I think you should explain.

[MMM]

I'm only joking about the policy

Oh

Still, all strong townreads on Wisdom are scummy, tbf.

I've come to virtually the same conclusions as him independently when I caught up so in my case, if you think I'm scummy for strongly town reading him, I think you should explain.

You're townreading him for having the same logic as you in a multiball game when most of this game has been about the WWs so far? Any *strong* townread at this point without paranoia seems strange.

If Gingham does flip WW like I expect her to atm then that would only further cement my town read on him since he's been wanting to get mafia lynched while leaving a WW alive that could very well screw him over if she didn't decide to follow through with town's "orders" which was entirely possible.
The most likely scenario in which I actually reconsider Wisdom is if Gingham flips Mafia.

[MMM]

"looking for mafia" is something mafia fake doing, yes.

I know, but why go out of your way to do it as mafia when the WW is confirmed to you?

[MMM]

Wisdom votes are hilarious.

mmm can be town

It's this sort of scenario that I find ridiculous.

I have... actually not even noticed that post. It's not enough to sway me a lot though tbh.

[MMM]

To be honest I'm not that avert to lynching Wisdom but it would require a good case to actually sway me here and I don't think one exists/will exist

[MMM]

Mind sharing what exactly pinged you about Wisdom?

[MMM]

Now that you mention it I have a problem seeing the WW lynching thing as coming from scum but I have a problem with seeing it come from town as well, and there is the matter that people did follow him way too easily on it... not sure how much of that is mafia buddying him (on what would hopefully be a town lynch), though, and whether it would be indicative of his own alignment. I'll need to reread that part of the game when next day starts and I have more time for this (assuming that Gingham is the WW, and if not, the real WW doesn't kill me).

[MMM]

I'm not afraid of Gingham flipping Mafia, but me as the second highest association to Mafia!Gingham...? Why lol

[MMM]

@MMM: Just hammer her, like y6ou said you would. Thanks.

I thought that--

oh we haven't hammered yet? I thought he hammered himself

...you know, I really do hate my life sometimes.

[MMM]

VOTE: NTRP

[MMM]

You seem to be implying that you townread Wisdom, but I believe you scumread him before. Elaborate on how this change happened.

[MMM]

oh god you guys are using player meta now

[MMM]

eh guess I wouldn't strongly oppose a Math wagon but I also wanna hear what they have to say

[MMM]

Hmmm ok sure
VOTE: Math
L-1 if I didn't miscount

[MMM]

If MMM was Town no way he puts me at L-1 when I could insta hammer if I was scum with him. Since MMM didn't think about that MMM is scum.

This is bullshit regardless of your alignment.

[MMM]

If MMM was Town no way he puts me at L-1 when I could insta hammer if I was scum with him. Since MMM didn't think about that MMM is scum.

This is bullshit regardless of your alignment.

No. It isn't and you know it. If I was mafia (which I am not) then I could easily have self hammered neutering discussion which is an incredibly proscum move here. Literally if you are Town which you probably aren't then l-1 vote is ridiculous and your join date leads me to believe you should know that.

Attempting to clear yourself out of not self hammering... that's adorable, I should try that when I roll scum one day.
I see no reason to unvote honestly and if it exists it's nowhere in sight unless you're trying to perform some miraculous gambit but I really doubt that's the case given that you've attempted to justify your actions by having a life.

FYI scum can selfhammer on a town L-1 as well as a scum one.

[MMM]

Note: Wisdom had suspected both NTRP & Vedith, so if they should be joining a wagon that us NOT on their buddy. If they lynch Scum then they're likely Town. Yes?

Not after you pointed it out to literally everyone lol.

[MMM]

Don't really have my own case, I sheeped A50 because I thought his case was decent and it was on a wagon that could actually get lynched - oh and him being conftown helps too. None to very few of the things Math has said afterwards make me believe he's actually town either so my vote's staying until I see a good reason to unvote or a better reason to vote someone else.

[MMM]

MMM's Math vote progression:

oh god you guys are using player meta now

Opposed to wagon.

Wrong. I'm opposed to using player meta.

eh guess I wouldn't strongly oppose a Math wagon but I also wanna hear what they have to say

Starts to become a bit more wishy-washy and leaves a door open to jump onto the wagon. Fencesits like crazy though, and there's a bit of hesitance. MMM comes off as feeling like he's in a precarious position here.

I didn't point out for nothing on d2 that Math was a null read for me.

Hmmm ok sure
VOTE: Math
L-1 if I didn't miscount

Almost gives a case relying on what looks like contradictions. MMM immediately jumps ship. Note that it has nothing to do with MMM's stance on Math, but rather Almost's. MMM is following the momentum onto Math while hiding behind Almost's reasoning.

Because I can't sheep a wagon I have my own case on?
Sheep =/= Scum

[MMM]

MMM's Math vote progression:

oh god you guys are using player meta now

Opposed to wagon.

Wrong. I'm opposed to using player meta.

You were showing opposition prior to this post. I just used this as a baseline to show how quickly your stance changed.

I may have done so but not in that post.
I hate player meta but when it's used it tends to give really accurate results which is part of the reason I didn't resist too much to being swayed.

eh guess I wouldn't strongly oppose a Math wagon but I also wanna hear what they have to say

Starts to become a bit more wishy-washy and leaves a door open to jump onto the wagon. Fencesits like crazy though, and there's a bit of hesitance. MMM comes off as feeling like he's in a precarious position here.

I didn't point out for nothing on d2 that Math was a null read for me.

That does not change the fencesitty nature of the post or that you positioned yourself to be ready to leap on Math if you need to.

I will fight you to the death for my right to fencesit on ONE single person in this game as town when I have already opened up regarding my reads on everyone else.

Hmmm ok sure
VOTE: Math
L-1 if I didn't miscount

Almost gives a case relying on what looks like contradictions. MMM immediately jumps ship. Note that it has nothing to do with MMM's stance on Math, but rather Almost's. MMM is following the momentum onto Math while hiding behind Almost's reasoning.

Because I can't sheep a wagon I have my own case on?
Sheep =/= Scum

It's not that you sheeped the wagon. It's how you did so.

I see good reasoning for a vote, I vote. I have literally no clue what's scummy or concerning about this at all.

[MMM]

I'm not flailing, I'm defending myself from a bullshit accusation, there's a difference.
Your second two reads can be right but you need to look elsewhere for the third scum lol.

[MMM]

On a completely unrelated note Dunker feels like town

[MMM]

I'm not frustrated in the slightest (especially as my interest in this game has been dropping), and even if I was, it would be independent of my alignment.

Try again.

[MMM]

Replace "scum frustration" with "town who's trying to knock some sense into Wisdom", and you got an actually true statement.

[MMM]

I'm trying to exercise more self-control than I've had in games in the past.

[MMM]

Which is, again, not alignment indicative in any way whatsoever, because both scum and town want to be townread.

[MMM]

And I'm disappointed that I have to fight you because I still think you're town...

[MMM]

I haven't claimed scum this game once yet, but I can do it for you if it'll make you feel shittier about yourself when I flip town afterwards I guess.

[MMM]

Shit like this is why I prefer logical arguments.

[MMM]

Or we could, you know, like, lynch actual scum

[MMM]

VOTE: Vedith
The recent Vedith-Bins exchanges make me feel like there's exactly one scum in them and I think it's more likely to be Vedith as I still townread Bins.

[MMM]

bad reads are bad

Finally, something I can agree with. Your reads are, indeed, bad. Change them.

[MMM]

Best friend Bins! Lets put our alignments aside right now!
Talk to me about Tails as I have an opinion I want to share with you!
Woo me on Tails!

Can we kill this tomorrow?

Or we could kill this now

[MMM]

MMM's Math vote progression:

oh god you guys are using player meta now

Opposed to wagon.

Wrong. I'm opposed to using player meta.

You were showing opposition prior to this post. I just used this as a baseline to show how quickly your stance changed.

I may have done so but not in that post.
I hate player meta but when it's used it tends to give really accurate results which is part of the reason I didn't resist too much to being swayed.

So essentially, you're trying to defeat my point with a nitpick, while still admitting my point was valid? Okay.

Yes I am. Deal with it.

I see good reasoning for a vote, I vote. I have literally no clue what's scummy or concerning about this at all.

But you had just said that you wanted to hear from Math first. What happened with that?

Because I thought A50's case was convincing enough. Like. DUH. It's a no brainer really.

[MMM]

@Mod: Limited Access until Monday.

[MMM]

>Just realising that day ends in 30 hours

If you're all stupid enough to lynch me for some reason - especially if it's before I'm able to say anything else - then

I want town to kill Vedith, Tails and MathBlade in this order and none other

and I want you to sheep me to fucking death on this or else I'm going to roll some fucking heads because I'm 95% confident in all scum being there.

I don't think that I'm honestly getting lynched, but if I do get lynched, then that's there for all of you.

And yes I think both NTRP and Dunker are town at the moment.

Last post for the next few days. Please don't disappoint me.

[MMM]

Shoutouts A50 for making up crazy theories and pushing town lynches
Shoutouts Dunker and NTRP for crawling up each others' ass and ignoring everything else
Shoutouts Wisdom for thinking you're a god who's always right
Shoutouts Bins for being the ONLY COMPETENT TOWN PLAYER IN THIS GAME

And shoutouts everyone for ignoring me when I literally called out the entire scumteam in my last post even after I flipped town and obviously the act itself of lynching me over a nonexistent bullshit case

This game was disgusting

[MMM]

I did PoE you

Town was just shit and ignored me

[MMM]

And it should happen far more often than it does.

[MMM]

Also last minute instant lynch changes out of nowhere should never happen. They always land on town.

[MMM]

I didn't even think I could get lynched at that stage, but shitty towns always surprise me.

[MMM]

There really was no harm in just no lynching... all that would have done is delay the game up to a week.

[MMM]

tails was blatant

:p

Agree with this, his cases screamed scum to me.